like I said before
#assassination
eager steeple
ok thank you
short relic
old lagoon
I didn’t notice it doing so last night
untold current
what is smart sim vs non
lost sentinel
I noticed it crit after the nerf, still doing that too
old lagoon
Smart sim picks iterations and stuff for a more “optimal” setup
lost sentinel
someone said they did that so it wouldn't crit for more damage with MA, makes sense
old lagoon
Gonna test some MA keys again tonight but with subt it didn’t feel amazing. Like 3-6% overall dmg depending on 1 or 2 traits
Across TD and FH 15+ keys
lone junco
smart has a weighted algorithm for your items. and sifts through the garbage. 100k does full 0.05% error sim.
old lagoon
Yeah. Probably gonna just run 2 SS and a NP instead of 2 SS and a EB
lone junco
even with the subscription, you need to run smart sim to sift through gear sets.
old lagoon
Priority damage is nice on big ads
untold current
Wouldnt there be no point in running SS if your ruinning EB with MA?
old lagoon
Which is like every other pack really
untold current
bc SS depends on subt
strange python
NP is garbage for m+
lone junco
no need argue with someone that wants to use NP for priority dmg in M+. thats just too weird to be real.
3ss exang would do that job better in all cases. so idk.
strange python
🙊
old lagoon
Gonna disagree there. It definitely has uses in dungeons with big priority targets like mechs in ML, zerkers in KR, etc. also energy regen helps you get the initial bleeds rolling some too. It’s maybe not optimal but it’s not garbage
strange python
np gives u 40 energy
And you have it every 2 minutes
Usable on 1 mob
While SS is every pull
On as much up to 6 mobs
lone junco
meh.
thin ingot
so the big question is
normal spear
NP stands nowhere near to SS in terms of usability
lone junco
ayy
thin ingot
to what race should i make my druid
lone junco
I look forward to 3scent
strange python
@thin ingot Faction?
grim wolf
i'm runnin 1 NP 2 SS and its performing really well in the m+ i was doing earlier
old lagoon
^ same
strange python
3SS would be performing even better! 😃
grim wolf
pffft if i only had a 3rd piece :/
strange python
My condolences
lone junco
have a scent?
grim wolf
i wish
grim wolf
archive yeah
slow mortar
does the NP energy gain stack?
modest badge
that would be sick
grim wolf
been using archive for a while just wanted to see how NP would work
lone junco
hah. tabbed 4 ruptures with 2fok 1scent, full e cap. vanish fok like 12 times.
cobalt gyro
ok well that was a flawed argument about ss
lone junco
50k on 4t
cobalt gyro
you can't say np is on a 2 minute cooldown then also say you can SS 6 mobs every pull
cause you need vanish which is also a 2 min cd
strange python
Yeah?
strange python
You're not going to tell me that NP>SS rofl
lone junco
if you want to gear for 1t. fine
strange python
ofcs
cobalt gyro
no, just that saying NP sucks because 2 minute cd, it's more like you mostly use vend for energy/burst in m+
normal spear
just image how insane NP (every 2 mins) has to be in order to outperform most other talents that can be used with little to no cd in a 30 min dungeon
strange python
But SS is just way more damage in m+
cobalt gyro
ye
lone junco
meh
cobalt gyro
to 6t SS, yea
lone junco
we know this.
strange python
You can consider NP for high tyrannical key, sure
But SS is generally better
I've seen people use DiTB for high tyran
elfin plaza
im a big dick 100 Parse Normal Parser now boys
Helps that only 72 logs were had for Assas
grim wolf
hmm, i wouldn't mind testing out 1eb in dungeons with larger packs.
i'm not sure how accurate these sims are on herodamage though
lone junco
25k ss 4t. sustain with Ct prob a little less than 3foks.
but the st with fok is dog shit
strange python
@grim wolf m+ sims will never be 100% accurate
stable pine
Sounds like this week is the perfect week for EB then isn’t it?
remote leaf
wait they turned EB off?
lone junco
larger packs, seli would run 10t40 no lust.
I think, unless i have a M+ group with zero cleave. Ill stay SS>
what is the other 3 traits to go with ss in the future? scent prob.
cobalt gyro
have both
lone junco
tab out 6 ruptures then vanish g g g ct for the spike
cobalt gyro
pull whole beach in TD with FoK -> leave and go SS
strange python
Scent with SS is going to wreck in m+
lone junco
ye
lost sentinel
garotte snap shots agility?
lone junco
no
lone junco
haste
lost sentinel
yeah I knew about exsang/haste,
grim wolf
oh shit i didn't realize i had a SoB helm off the world boss. mmm SSx2 SoB
strange python
def way better than 2SS and NP
cobalt gyro
idk i found it hard to get value from SoB
lost sentinel
I still don't have a SOB helm, or SS helm
cobalt gyro
maybe i'm just bad at ruptures
grim wolf
SoB has ridiculous value
lone junco
once you have 4x life is good
vital haven
is the fight type dungeon slice suppose to emulate a m+?
lone junco
my ss hat is 345
yes
it has a boss with lust and cds, then waves of small and big trash packs.
strange python
noobe still running 280 Ss chest from questing
strange python
Imagine if we had the currency from the beginning of BFA
grim wolf
big oof
lone junco
3 garrotes did 235k
equivalent of 3fok HB fan hitting 12 mobs at once.
oy
18sec vs instant. but it is what it is.
really surprised we dont have anything DP or mastery based yet
I really liked PK
lost sentinel
370 engineering helm looks hot
lone junco
so not excited for this.
its an ilvl thing.
100 dps loss to use 345 ss shoulders
thats funny
thin ingot
guys offtopic question, dont hate please...but weren't they making the champions of azeroth rep account bound? on my alts im still neutral, or should i just visit magni and get the powerupts to my neckpiece?
neon thunder
Try it first see first. I dunno
I was gonna wait and do the same but wq got me to revered
zealous niche
@thin ingot just go talk to magni
stable pine
With the new NP trait - do you Toxic Blade after Vend still or before?
thin ingot
thanks !
strange python
Probably vendetta after
thin ingot
you know, playing dps is surely stressful as duck
with all the nerfs and buffs on a daily basis
round harbor
Unlucky
thin ingot
so i stress too much about all these freaking changes
sick frost
what stats for forti M+ now? still crit mastery? talent exan and subter
cobalt gyro
it's definitely a week you can go full crit/mast
zealous lily
i got the azerite hat from ivus
zealous lily
near the horde base
lone junco
did alliance get that? cause i have the winged bird
sick frost
on 4 training dummy i have stable 30k dps with 3xEB....on 1 xEB and 2 SS i have 25k dps
lone junco
sure. now do 1t
finite acorn
with the new FoK trait do you start using it on 2 or 3+ ?
lone junco
2
finite acorn
ok ty
lost sentinel
sims have me at EB > archive, with 2SS, sub, vigor, exsang, CT - which is what I was running heh
finite acorn
it still is rly strong so i would assume that it still goes 2+
polar forge
So is general consensus to just sim yo self or should we b running EB if we have em?
Just boss dmg is ass
lost sentinel
well it considers boss damage too afaik
lone junco
Ill be running ss still.
polar forge
But it gets drowned out with just an overall dps number
strange python
@polar forge ninja pull mobs to boss
lone junco
yeah. as soon as you go over a medium mob count the fok is gonna do well.
polar forge
@strange python that was for sub 🙂
lone junco
fun fact. the dungeon slice may have you killing mobs in less than the garrote run out time
11s on the low end
so if you pull more than slice, eb will win. if the small groups last longer than slice ss will win.
gl
candid jasper
Sorry, what is EB
candid jasper
Oh lol
lone junco
candid jasper
wow lol
manic quartz
does the "first 5 crits" reset after combat ends?
lone junco
its neat.
chilly hazel
FoK dmg i mean no the crit aoe thing, thats minor
lone junco
will synergize better with 3scent later
candid jasper
So are people playing hidden blades and echoing blades?
strange python
@manic quartz thats not how it works
chilly hazel
why hidden blades when you can just make your normal CT rotation just do more dmg now
no point
weak current
so im rereading the wowhead rogue guide for ass to tighten my dps, and im wondering why it says do garrote > rupture > garotte > vendetta. Wouldn't you want to vendetta before doing the shrouded suffocation + subterfuge garotte to buff its damage?
lone junco
the aoe hit is like 20k per mob on the open
candid jasper
Gargle dots no longer work like that
lone junco
as i said. Ill still be using 3ss.
candid jasper
They used to a while ago but now if you do 30% more damage the DoT will do 30% more damage
lone junco
but 7foks in a row and I just held 50k for a bit.
final stone
I got 2 eb and 1 ss simming the best for me for m+ so ill test it out tonight on some keys
weak current
oh so you don't have to have vendetta up during the APPLICATION of the dot, you can now pop it after you apply it in order for it to do 30% more damage??
lone junco
maybe you can pull an island all at once with a tank
lunar merlin
Yeah
lament palm
Anyone getting knocked out of stealth all the time in uldir? Was doing my head in last night killing my openers on trash and bosses
weak current
does toxic blade work differently then? because the rotation says to use vendetta THEN toxic blade
manic quartz
so how does it work? if it crits to a mob it releases new one up to 5 crits and then no longer procs on that mob?
primal gazelle
pumped pretty hard in this tol dagor 14 with 3 EB traits lol completely rekt the outlaw rogue
lone junco
tb hits pretty hard., buffing the hit with tb is good
see.
and fokfokfokfofkofk isnt that hard
strange python
@manic quartz How can u not understand
manic quartz
the wording is shit on the tooltip imo
strange python
No its not
candid jasper
I think it can read a bit confusing to be fair
lone junco
in a pack of 100 mobs. you will get a bunch of crits
you will throw 1 FOK
and up to 5 Echo of blades
per fok
HAHAH
so you vanish FOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKF
storm zinc
Is NP not simming properly?
lunar merlin
So with these new changes, is 3xss still the go-to m+?
lone junco
no. it just isnt good
zealous niche
@lone junco so you're running MA then?
lone junco
ss is good still. if you can pull big, then fok may take over, but your st will suffer
finite acorn
ill probably use 2x SS and one EB
lone junco
ss gets subterfuge. fok gets ma
zealous niche
cool thanks
weak current
is double dose a garbage trait? it looks like it sims high
lone junco
it is raw ST
strange python
Holy fuck
pelase
Use the available resources
its based on raiding or m+
what r u doing
lunar merlin
How do you guys prefer to build? Do you keep many sets of traits, or do you just get 3 that kinda make you a jack of all trades
lone junco
depends
strange python
i get what i get and i build around w/e is highest ilvl
lone junco
in M+ if your group has massive cleave I go St. if the group has massive st, i go cleave. currently SS is both cleave and ST
lunar merlin
Do you think it's a solid call to pool residuum until the gear from vendor goes 415?
dark lantern
garrote updates live with vendetat
lunar merlin
It didn't seem worth buying it now when my group is 4/8m
dark lantern
vendetta*. So if you cast Vendetta after garrote, it still buffs the garrote
lone junco
yeah. I would wait for balancing. I dont trust blizzard to keep ST meta the same
you do what you want tho
dark lantern
@lunar merlin the residiuum costs of 415 gear will be like 5-10x the cost of a 385 piece, so it depends on how much you think you can stockpile before then. Odds are even if you got max Residium every week from now till BfD, you still won't be able to afford a specific 415 piece until 2-3 weeks into season 2
lone junco
my group has a affliction that always beats me in ST. but never in cleave. I might as well go EB with him. but I wont go EB with the warrior or moonkin.
lunar merlin
Off, I hadn't taken increasing costs in to account I guess
lone junco
yeah, the prices go up. but if there is nothing to buy. meh.
lunar merlin
I'm picking up what you're putting down I think, noobe
lone junco
mostly because I dont know the meta, I would have trouble picking a specific piece
safe pier
hey everyone, new to this but I was told i could come here for better information on traits and such?
lone junco
spend months of currency on . . . . . . . . . DD!, then they double the E return from vendetta
SS is a good investment though.
SS + Scent that is
hushed lion
wtf is this bug where u dont get any combo points
lone junco
I predict a raidbot subscription surge when people start simming 6traits across 5 pieces per slot.
novel moss
^ You know it bro
ancient compass
is elvui messed up?
cobalt gyro
@ancient compass in what way
old lagoon
They changed the health backdrop color in newest update
civic palm
There was a patch yesterday, ELVUI is messing up.
dusky tinsel
I highly doubt you'll be able to get a 415 from the vendor at only 2-3 weeks after it releases. If you only do a +10 (the average player) then it will take you 12 weeks to get a specific 385. When they greatly increase the amount you receive the cost of the 415's will also be greatly increased, even for a non specific piece (so what you save up until that point although helpful, won't be but a drop in the bucket for what a 415 costs). Might take 4-5 weeks after raid releases for a non-specific piece if it was my guess and a couple months for a specific.
verbal pebble
nothing like some good old soul-sucking time-gated grind
lone junco
you think you hate it, but you dont ™
lost sentinel
385 engineering goggles... now I feel justified in sticking with this profession for this long
lavish citrus
how is it a grind when you can't really control how much you're getting
strange python
Huh
Finally able to play in 8.1. we get any playstyle changes like new bis azerite or talent builds or are we the same?
strange python
How can you not control how much you're getting
Specific key grants an X amount of currency, doesn't it?
Like a 10 will always give X amount
lavish citrus
you're limited in every way you try to get it
the only thing you can "grind" is azerite gear and that depends on you getting the azerite gear from raids and emissaries to scrap
it's just a time gate that's easily visualised 🤷
wide mountain
Guys, has Echoing Blade trait been nerfed?
strange python
Yes
north rune
hello, is better to mantain up envenom buff or elaborate planing ?
strange python
You prioritize EP
wide mountain
Is it still worth to equip EB then? Where has the nerfed been documented?
strange python
Go to herodamage.com
lavish citrus
is it actually worth casting low cp envenoms to maintain EP
i've always just played as if it wasnt
strange python
No u dont do that
strange python
Yeah most of the times u dont even notice EP
lavish citrus
it's a weird question because you're not actually maintaining either
strange python
You just play ur spec
lavish citrus
you're just pressing them
strange python
EP is a 10% dmg buff for using a finisher
lavish citrus
yeah i know
strange python
And you generally want to maintain it 100% of the time
Ofcs thats not possible
But you sometimes pool energy to keep EP going for a longer period of time
lavish citrus
nah my dude just crit 100% of the time with mutilate w/ both weapons
totally possible
cobalt gyro
usually happens in the opener
lavish citrus
4 combo point envenoms for days
lavish citrus
ep is dumb and i wish we used blindside
lone junco
Last time I checked, low cp ruptures weren't a loss. But it didn't really increase the overall ep uptime.
cobalt gyro
i thought as of bfa a 2cp rupture does the same tick damage as a 5 cp, but lasts for less time
so if you need to 2 cp rupture to not let it fall for long, do it
lavish citrus
yeah it is
or at least im pretty sure it is
the "loss" is that you spend more time casting rupture than envenom but even that's sorta minimal
lost sentinel
anyone running the engineering 385 goggles?
lavish citrus
nah
lost sentinel
sims better than 375 eb and 375 archive for me, for m+
seems good, hero damage has it ranked high now cause you can actually get the higher ilvl
void yarrow
@lost sentinel You can't craft the 385 goggles until the raid releases (when Tidalcore is available). So you should sim the 370(375) in the meantime
lost sentinel
you can craft them
what you cannot craft is the 385 with the fourth ring
after I crafted the 370 goggles, I got the recipe for 385 of this tier
void yarrow
Interesting
lost sentinel
yeah, I didn't know there was a 385 craftable now either, til I made the 370
plain jacinth
also you get back expulsom from scrapping crafted gear now, so you don't lose much if you make 385 pieces now
lost sentinel
oh good, that'll be convenient
void yarrow
Do you know the rate of return @plain jacinth ?
lost sentinel
I can scrap my 370s to find out heh
fiery eagle
So is there any data on my new trinket from the darkshore world boss?
lost sentinel
sweet, I got 25 sanguicell (cost to craft) and 20 expulsom (cost 30)
scrapped my old 340 goggles and got none heh, big difference
void yarrow
@fiery eagle I see it listed in the Bloodmallet sims, not yet in the Herodamage sims unless I missed it when I last looked
fiery eagle
Thanks shadow I've been checking but no dice as of yet,I got mine yesterday after months of chasing dooms, I'll check it and thanks again
Well that's disappointing...... still dmc fathoms according to bloodmallet
unborn silo
Is there a possibility to Sim my Gear etc with different races?
onyx rock
Just change the race=xy in your raidbots input
primal gazelle
end of a WM 14 using triple EB traits 🤔
wish they buffed its damage instead of giving it 100% crit chance
brazen tiger
is subterfuge still broken?
neon thunder
Fixed
civic palm
It's fixed.
lusty narwhal
Maybe a pvp thing
civic palm
or a player thing.
sick frost
@primal gazelle in this 3xEB trait what talents u use?
sick frost
MA and HB?
primal gazelle
MA and hb yeah
sick frost
nice
lusty gale
MA is master assassin right?
sick frost
ye
lusty gale
with these traits is there specific rotation?
austere scarab
I have a 385 Nothin' Personnel Kid vs. a 370 Double Dose
what do you guys think for generic uldir use?
trail hound
From what I heard, Subterfuge SUPPOSEDLY doesnt empower the first garrote out of vanish, but I havent tested it myself. Second garrote becomes empowered
neon thunder
On fort weeks I still feel ss ss sob is stronger
normal sphinx
For mythic + what's the rotation? 3-4 garrotes, rupture 3 targets, FOK and Crimson tempest bleed? Never feel like I get a strong AOE out in M+
hasty vale
ty ty
strange python
345 SS or 390 EB chest? Have SS + DD head/shoulders
neon thunder
Garrote x 3. cT. Rupture as many as you can before cT debiuff drops. Refresh cT. Rupture. I usually stop rupturing at 5 tagets and just spam CT. But this week might be work rupturing more since pretty strong. And since pulls are pretty lony, use all your CDs regularly. Vendetta exsang highest health
@normal sphinx
Then there is the vanish garotte garotte garotte
normal sphinx
@neon thunder Thanks - Seems similar, but I obviously need to just work on being more consistent + get some aoe traits
normal sphinx
It does always feel really slow
Verse my paladin now being instant and huge dps with the new traits that got released
honest iris
did echoing blades get nerfed yet
normal sphinx
Yes
past star
ive fallen like 150 rating straight in pvp
why does assa feel like it sucks suddenly?
inb4 its because i suck
that has been the case all along
sullen pagoda
did they already nerf EB boys
austere scarab
@past star vanish broken?
lone junco
Anyone done > 18 with 3eb yet?
@sullen pagoda it was gutted and buffed in 12hrs. It's. no longer absurd. Just good now.
lusty gale
Does anyone know how to set up on the elvui the combo points on nameplates? after the update my combo points became bigger id like to resize them
lone junco
The raw FOK bonus is nice. Will scale very very well with 3scent 3fok.
lusty gale
so when do you FOK? when there is 3 or more targets?
primal gazelle
3+ ya
towards the mid-end of the pull when you have infinity energy and ruptures are all on all target, you can TB, fok, enveom, fok evenom, fok envenom, fok envenom sub style
pretty pog
but that requires double/triple packs
hidden anchor
does EB change priority at all?
primal gazelle
ya im running with 37% crit
lone junco
Funny is that you could prob drop 10ilvl if you gained 10% crit.
Just forsake any chance at st.
primal gazelle
yea on a triple pull w/ an infested giant
took like 60-90 secs to kill
its the pull after the 2nd boss on fh
lone junco
Infinite e tho
I did. FOK FOK FOK. Rupture garrote exang. FOK FOK r. FOK FOK r. FOK FOK r. FOK FOK FOK FOK FOK
The env is prob worth in there.
20k ish.
primal gazelle
eh i dont like garrote/exsang, i feel like its not worth the global in a huge pack
primal gazelle
instead of garrote->exsang one target, you could cast fok-> rupture instead
which most likely is a 5pt
lone junco
Too bad that other one is mut e. And it should have been 4p21 bonus.
primal gazelle
and that FOK deals way more dmg than a garrote exsang alone, then you add in the rupture dmg
but thats just me speaking feelingscraft
lone junco
I'd like a crit use. But I have passive and dice.
primal gazelle
i dont have sims to back that up
lone junco
Sure. The apl hasn't caught up to a 10t pack.
Seli just makes his stuff up
But he's been sustaining 45k for a while. 1ss. 1scent. 1archive.
primal gazelle
his group is prob way more coordinated than my pug with randoms lol
lone junco
Yeah. And they pull big.
primal gazelle
so they might not even hit each other unless theyre realyl close to each other
oh yea youre right
but its 8 yds from where the mob is, not where you are
lone junco
Neat.
primal gazelle
if there is 5 mobs 5 yds to my left, and 5 mobs 5 yds to my right, the procs wont hit all 10
finite yacht
are hero damage and bloodmallet up to date for the new traits?
cedar kelp
hidden anchor
so priority doesn't change with EB?
primal gazelle
yea i wouldnt play it for tyrannical week or for TOS/KR
stiff crag
does subterfuge not proc off vanish anymore?
lone junco
To me. If I can pump 40k. Instead of 25k then it is a gain on trash. Depends on what the group needs.
dark crag
I used vanish with supterfuge and it triggered like always. Atleast on eu
3 garrottes no cd
olive sorrel
Does anyone have any thoughts on the trait Shadow of Elune? I got a 385 chest with it. The haste buff seems really nice.
lone junco
no thoughts. I havent heard of it
vital haven
is dungeon slice accurate for you guys?
primal gazelle
i think 3x SS 3x SoB is bis for tyrannical week, 3x EB 3x SoB for fortified week
primal gazelle
only because 3x ss and 3x eb doesnt syergnize at all
they require different talents to be good
woeful token
what trait are we running with in mythic+ still 3 ss ?
cobalt gyro
i mean in a tyrannical dungeon you still spend the most time killing trash
strange python
You still need more boss damage
cobalt gyro
i mean
you don't just go full ST
you go 4 dps
so it's ok
weird they'd change the trash so you can't skip it all, but then not even touch elder
that check is kinda absurd honestly
cobalt gyro
all 6 SS
primal gazelle
ofc
strange python
no idea because I haven't seen the azerite pieces
cobalt gyro
god that would do some stupid ass burst
strange python
I guess SS + archive/unstable would make a great combo for tyran
cobalt gyro
archive?
strange python
Yes
primal gazelle
thats not gonna be a thing next tier
cobalt gyro
even still i know at least my haste weight is better than main stat
NP + double dose sounds like a nice meme
for tyran
strange python
Dont say that
Someone might take it seriously
One day you'll get a sin rogue running np+dd on m+
tender quail
hey guys, any tips on mythic ghuun fight ?
modest badge
survive
tender quail
lol
bold mural
jovial fractal
if i run CT in m+ do i use it on 2 targets or just Envenoms
exotic fractal
anyone see the hotfix? Echoing blades donezo now/back to SS for M+?
civic palm
huh? was done earlier
scenic shale
hey is the new worldboss trinket any good? are sims accurate now?
civic palm
SIMs are up-to-date IIRC.
little burrow
And by hours, about a day
Well maybe not the Vanish ending prematurely, but the subterfuge one yes
snow lake
civic palm
uhhuh
cobalt gyro
i mean at least they admit it was unreasonable damage xd
civic palm
Yeah, and that documented it.
peak juniper
so i sim at 11k but, i'm doing like 8k on bosses in mythic atm
that;s without flasks and lust tho
that about right?
like 8k after it fallen off
idle vigil
Is crimson tempest
strange python
Well about right I guess?
idle vigil
worth it on st?
strange python
No
strange python
@peak juniper You can check how much dps u will have without lust and flasks, just uncheck it on raidbots
@idle vigil 3+
peak juniper
it is
i do the opener right
but after the opener
i don't know how to do the rotation correctly
like i maintain dots
but i don't think i'm doing the pooling thing correct
and also when my vendetta starts to come back up idk what cp i need to build up to b4 i pop it and when to refresh dots to get rdy for it
clear lynx
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
peak juniper
like im so freaking confused by this spec
the guides legit don't help me
their way to freaking vague
i've read that one
peak juniper
and icyveins and wowhead. they legit do not help at all after opener, just basic maintain dots, envenom at 4-5 cp that's it
strange python
Refresh both garrote and rupture in pandemic range
peak juniper
but do i build up my cp b4 i pool or what
and same with toxic blade do i have to pool for it
strange python
Preferably
peak juniper
or just pop it on cd anyway
strange python
I'd suggest to pool for tb
peak juniper
when should i start pooling for it? like at what cd count?
peak juniper
plus midway through fight when vanish and vendetta start coming back up how do i do that burst again
cus can't do ti exact same as opener
or is that how supposed to do it?
strange python
What are ur traits
peak juniper
two nothing personal and 1 SS
strange python
lol 1 sec
frozen karma
I can't find any sims for the new trinket at the warfronts (Forest Lord's Razorleaf)
peak juniper
like i'm lost as heck as to what to do the rotation properly when burst comes back up
steel violet
2 archive and 1 DD or 1 ss, 1 dd, 1 archive
frozen karma
nvm found it
cobalt gyro
you can pretty much just play it 99% like your opener
strange python
yeah you could do like
Get to 2-3 cp before ur 2nd vanish
then
Vanish>Garrote>Finisher>garrote>vendetta
cobalt gyro
see dots about to fall > pop vendetta, vanish, boom opener
strange python
Yes
peak juniper
cus i have situations where my vanish comes off cd 30seconds after vendetta somehow
strange python
Then ure doing shit wrong
peak juniper
well i open garr > rupture > garr
so that gives me like a 24 sec garrote
so my vanish doesnt happen till way later
strange python
Yeah but vendetta comes like 2 GCDS after
aaa
i dont know anymore
Just align both abilities
peak juniper
i garr > rupture > garr > vendetta > tb > envenom
then garr doesn't come off till 24seconds later
then vanish garr garr
hence why vanish comes off like half a minute later
strange python
Yeah and ur vanish is like
23 seconds later
23 seconds is a lot less than 30 seconds
So its fine
So ur 2nd burst is like the opener
cobalt gyro
that's close enough really
strange python
7 seconds off 
Keep refreshing your garrote and rupture in pandemic range
Try getting 2-3 in TB windows
Pool if you're at low energy either for TB, or Elaborate Planning to keep its uptime for longer
cobalt gyro
sin isn't really a super big brain spec, so just don't think about it too much
it pretty much boils down to "keep dots ticking, mutiliate till 4-5 combo points, envenom"
strange python
Pretty much
steel violet
Trying to sim as well, but regardless. 1 ss is needed for sin?
peak juniper
it is 23seconds i mean 30sec i waass just saying it comes off later a lot
cobalt gyro
not really needed, but personally it feels very comfy
strange python
You align vendetta with vanish
peak juniper
when "pooling" what's like the rough number to pool to?
cus i think i might be waiting to long pooling to much
strange python
Depends what ure pooling for
For TB
Around 100 energy when you're already at 3-4CP
Around 120-150 for Elaborate planning to keep it going?
cobalt gyro
you don't really need to pool too much for sin, 50-60 + for vendetta and somewhere around 80ish for TB is fine
strange python
Depends on ur haste too
peak juniper
i literally get off like 1 MAAAAYBE 2 envenoms if i pool to 80
ye i only got 8% haste
strange python
in raids?
peak juniper
no
strange python
You use TB in m+?
cobalt gyro
exsang = hella burst + a ton of energy at the start of pulls/bosses
peak juniper
i do
idle vigil
Is there a different stat priority
for m+ as to raids?
i assume crit is really good now with eb
celest swan
you basicly avoid haste
and versa though
not sure if echoing blades changes it a bit
but not so much
celest swan
mastery gets bit weaker but still second best
yep
even in tyrannical weeks u r doung trash a lot of the overall time
and u dont need haste for that, casue u get enouhg energy from your bleeds on multiple targets
obtuse grove
did they hotfix the vanish bug yet?
obtuse grove
echoing blades still strong asf?
cobalt gyro
personally i do straight ST build for tyrannical build
no, it's been nerfed, but it's still good
obtuse grove
awesome, thanks
obtuse grove
that's what im running atm - doing an atal
celest swan
at stat and talent wise u change anything from before the patch?
like getting some more haste/versa isntead of mastery or is it not worth it?
untold cargo
on the prior convo- im pooling as high as i can for TB, literally aim for near cap b4 casting TB
maximizes EP and TB
sturdy python
As long as tb isn't sitting off CD regularly
untold cargo
i only let it sit a few secs for rupture refresh and then ill enter window with a lower pool
garrote is fine, just wait for a 3+ cp mut and garrote mid tb
refreshing rup right b4 isnt bad either bc ofc it procs EP anyway
strange python
@cobalt gyro Just woke up so my brain is still in sleepmode, "echoing blades just inflates crit". Does that mean inflating the value of crit?
vapid moth
@strange python ye
cobalt gyro
ye, it makes crit way more valuable
strange python
Tyty :)
halcyon tulip
untold cargo
how the hell did you get 300 already @halcyon tulip
halcyon tulip
what bug?
trail cypress
halcyon tulip
can you still do that?
strange python
lol..
strange python
If you didnt use the bug can i hear how you got them all
halcyon tulip
or they did that bug he does drop azerite
cobalt gyro
most likely
strange python
Whats your priority for bigger pulls? With my low effort feelycrafting I would guess FoK into rupture is more important then getting loads of garrotes out (after subt runs out of)
@cobalt gyro
cobalt gyro
if i'm running SS 3x garrote > vanish > 3 more, ideally get the garrotes onto the most dangerous mobs that would be in the pull (say refreshment vendors in motherlode, that way they'll stack), then rupture > fok, spending on rupture, then CT if i took it once ihave 4 rupt or so
cobalt gyro
probably skip the vanish garrotes
strange python
Thanks:) Definitely gonna stop tagging you, sorry for them pings
celest swan
with 3 EB Hidden Blades is the highest simming ST Lvl 100 Talent, nice
strange python
You would need to be carried so hard on bosses with MA, Hidden and 3x EB
Sounds horrible
cobalt gyro
pretty sure if you're running HB you should use FoK at 20 stacks
don't quote me on that one
as in, single target
cause it does like 15k
celest swan
yep
cobalt gyro
less CP than mutilate, but does like 5x the damage so it's fine
celest swan
+lower energy
celest swan
haha true
also TB sims lot better now an time/target szenarios now
currently simming wiht 2x EB 1x SS
- DS ist really nice aswell
proven frigate
anyone notice SS doing less damage?
hidden anchor
Does EB change our priority at all?
celest swan
i guess we use FoK at 3 Targets baseline wiht 2 traits
- i feel like there is nor eason to use only 1x EB
cunning needle
so do we have a verdict on EB yet after the nerfs?
viable to run or are we still using SS
civic palm
cunning needle
but i want to be spoonfed 😦
civic palm
Get the calculator!
thorn tartan
What you think about the New worldboss azerite Trakt?
civic palm
I think it's been run through the gauntlet and there's probably a mathematically accurate answer to your question.
lavish spruce
hey guys, trying to run sims for M+ pushing here. I always hear that Exsang is better than TB, but my sims always put TB ahead. any idea?
6boss patchwork 1min: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/24x1VNGCDU2TvQqtLLysGU
dungeon slice: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i61Ti3Anj1FDHZuKpzdKHN
steel ridge
guys, is garrote from sub still broken?
spice bolt
@lavish spruce any ss traits?
runic basin
morn guys any news about "bis" trait in M+ and ST? Play usually M+ wit 2x SS 1xAV / SB or the new Ingi Google ...what ppl mean with "sub doesn't work..blablalba" ?
lavish spruce
i have 1x EB and 1x SS @spice bolt . The 3rd is archive titan
spice bolt
Try simming with 1 eb 2 ss im not 100% certain but archive is pretty bad outside uldir
lavish spruce
yeh i dont have a 2nd ss thats why
cobalt gyro
if anything it tells you that exsang doesn't really do much for your dps in aoe
spice bolt
The more ss you have the more dps you will do with exsang in short fights.
runic basin
EB = ?
patent topaz
easy business
runic basin
tacit hatch
Ebonbolt 😏
runic basin
got it, ty..not
tacit hatch
it's echoing blades
patent topaz
the new fok trait that replaced the old one, got nerfed already and doesnt seem to be worth running
now that I think of it, I have a spare 390 helm with EB I could use instead of archive in m+
cobalt gyro
its pretty worth
runic basin
ok is see..rogue is dead..R.I.P
fringe urchin
whats a good haste % ?
uncut marsh
Personally, I’ve been loving TB over exsang in Uldir. Can’t speak for m+ though. Also got my first 100 parse in mythic yesterday 😃
patent topaz
I think exsang is better than tb on most uldir fights
uncut marsh
With TB you get to run x2 double dose though, real nice consistent dps boost
wet wing
so EB did get nerfed right and if so is it any good for aoe because i could use 2 and then 1 archive
celest swan
this week fort+teeming it fells pretty great
on tyraniccal weeks u will go back to 3x SS i guess
tall pond
i think this week its either 2x EB and 1x SS or 1xEB and 2xSS, depending on the dung
limpid rose
didnt EB get buffed after the nerf? guaranteed critical strikes now from the explosions, must inc the value no?
like few hours ago
tall pond
it was always criting for me yesterday
wet oxide
Now i wonder was that second 75% nerf
tall pond
i think the notes are late and the hotfix happened yesterday
cerulean walrus
tfw they remove Shuriken Storm passive and then give it's essence to Sin rogues
zinc zephyr
long live the king
cerulean walrus
All your power are belong to us
quick ice
It's really not like that though? Shuriken combo gave ST boost massively in aoe, but eb just adds more aoe, no?
latent field
What was given to Assassination, echoing blades?
cerulean walrus
Yeah
latent field
No priority damage tho
cerulean walrus
I mean, you still get CP off of the extra blade crits right?
latent field
No way?
patent topaz
I thought they were going to remove half of the shitty traits and not swap 2 shit traits for 2 meh ones
cerulean walrus
So instead of giving CP based on # of targets hit. It gives CP cause of Sin's passive with crits
Which would, while not exactly match up, basically be the same thing
latent field
Subterfuge nerf?
olive shore
doesnt proc from vanish anymore
latent field
Fixed
wet oxide
Fixed like yesterday already
lost sentinel
it works heh
olive shore
so 1x ss and 2x dd for m+?
cerulean walrus
No? Just roll with what we always have
I still go with 2x SS 1x Scent, unless that's super oldschool
olive shore
i find 2ss is a waste of combo points since the dmg nerf back then. no idea though
lost sentinel
the damage stacking is what ya want
coarse knot
Lol I run triple SS and I do perfectly fine in m+
latent field
I’ve been running old raids with 2xSS and from time to time I only get 1 combo point from stealthed garrote,
coarse knot
Do crazy damage
lost sentinel
I'm running barrage (engineer helm trait) and 2 SS
cerulean walrus
Oh how is the engineering helm?
coarse knot
Kinda all depends on how you like your play style really
cerulean walrus
I might make it if its worthwhile
olive shore
@coarse knot , crazy dmg is pretty subjective though
i doubt there is an "own playstyle" in m+
lost sentinel
it's neat, sims say it's better than EB or archive in my head slot, I don't have a SS head piece
olive shore
you either do dmg or you dont.
coarse knot
I mean I’m always topping charts
cerulean walrus
Lord knows I'll never use all the mats I have right now
coarse knot
So I think I’m doing fine
olive shore
whats your overall dps like?
coarse knot
Mm probably around 13-15k kinda depends on if the tank lets me get stealth off
cerulean walrus
Ehhhhh
coarse knot
Some tanks like to pull pack after pack
cerulean walrus
That's not real crazy tbh
cerulean walrus
The problem is that SS falls off eventually, which is where scent of blood can help out
coarse knot
Then sustain close to 20k
latent field
Why is you aoe falling behind so much
coarse knot
?
cerulean walrus
yeah your trash DPS should be much higher than 13k
latent field
Yeah
cerulean walrus
are you like accidentally refreshing garrotes before Subt ones fall off?
latent field
I do nothing close to 20k sustain but regularly pull 25k trash dmg?
uncut marsh
Wait I thought he meant 13k single target, you can do way better on trash than that mate
coarse knot
Thought he meant overall dungeon wise
tropic rover
Is raidbots updated for the new Echoing Blade nerf? Just finished a key with 1x EB and 2X SS and it was less than 2% of my overall
latent field
Gotcha Syrr, I’m a dunce
coarse knot
Lol it’s no worries I got confused myself
When everyone was like 13k is low
I was like am I really that bad!!
cerulean walrus
I mean 13k is pretty low for ST if you have pretty good gear
What's your ilvl right now?
coarse knot
My st is not 13k
uncut marsh
What’s your ilvl
coarse knot
In my m+ gear it’s like 378
uncut marsh
That’s pretty good, not amazing but you can play rogue I guess.
latent field
Mana here is calculating your ilvl parse
coarse knot
Lol I think I do pretty well as a rogue
Could do better tho
But in like every m+ I’m in I’m always top damage and everything and I do mostly 12+ and up
Not super impressive but I lack a group to push higher keys
lost sentinel
my group been lazy af, or kinda splitting up a bit since the tank hasn't been super active
stable pine
Why is everyone raving about EB? It sucks!!!
latent field
It’s the worst when a tank keeps pulling and you cant restealth for triple garrote
tropic rover
Yeah seriously, is EB something that we need to have multiple stacks of to be good?
coarse knot
I’d say it’s only good if multiple packs are pulled
If your only good like 1-2 packs
It’s worthless
Doing*
silver notch
Its use for pugging keys leaves a lot to be desired, but if you have your own group and they pull fat I'd use it
stable pine
I think I’ll go back to my 2xSS
half tartan
EB still of any value?
tough lantern
Did the change shadowmeld? not able to restealth immedialty in dungeon with it
coarse knot
@half tartan all depends on your group
lost sentinel
I think I did restealth with shadowmeld
I think you can get pulled back into combat real fast though
I dunno, shadowmeld is finnicky as always
jaunty arrow
I dont find EB goodh enought 
tropic rover
same. gonna try and run with 1x EB 2x SS and Hidden Blades to see if it's any better
coarse knot
Hidden blades makes no difference for EB
jaunty arrow
Hidden blades need rework, coz its sux
lost sentinel
I'd imagine the FOK portion is impacted
tropic rover
oh weird, its simming higher in the dungeon slice for me over CT
jaunty arrow
I can imagine hidden blade do EB stuff and EB just w/e boost fok
echo night
Do we get residuum from scrapping azerites now?
jaunty arrow
Yep
echo night
How much do we get from 340 and up?
Is there a chart out there showing the scrapping value yet?
echo night
The titan residuum return
Nvm
Found it
Well, once again blizz fucked up again... Promising easier way to get higher azerite pieces... Atleast give us azerites from M+ atleast -_-
jaunty arrow
Bfa is fail, i have nothing to do 😂
lost sentinel
I bet specific 415 is gonna cost around 6.7k-7k
echo night
Yea its fucking stupid....
lost sentinel
but we're gonna earn way more than we are now
echo night
Blizz needs to give their players a bigger bon3 tbh
jaunty arrow
On legion u need to farm ap and lego, so u doing m+ atc and now? 🤔
echo night
Or atleast make titan residuum accountbound
quick ice
iirc specific 415 was 3250 on PTR?
vapid moth
@quick ice yeah
stone crescent
Anyone having problems with their old WA that used to show if your garrote was empowered or not?
Not sure if vanish or stealth is just bugged but its always showing as non-empowered for me now
civic palm
If you are applying non-empowered garrotes odds are it's clearing out w/e tracking you might have.
strange python
Some others have reported the same issue with WA and empowered tracking yesterday
So might be that
solid lava
@stone crescent same here, basically it will show as green when its empowered
but now, nothing is green
I feel naked
stone crescent
Yeah I was using the Luxthos one that shows it as green when its empowered, but now its not
solid lava
same here
stone crescent
And nah, all garrotes are white now
Even without putting non empowered ones on other things
strange python
The need to make bigger bags in this game, this is so annoying :/
civic palm
...
main flicker
Am i missing something with my gear? Feels like im simming very low in the dungeonslice
hazy geyser
bigger than 30 or 32??
strange python
yes
chilly hazel
RIP EB, lasted less than 12 hours
main flicker
I do
floral frost
should dungeon slice be simmed without buffs just like 6 bosses, 40 secs? (only food and flask)
exotic jay
I need a little help..bit new to all the changes. Is it worth me dropping ilvl/dps to keep SS or go for the Dps/stat increase? https://gyazo.com/1d43d75e3533d15a24c92a57ba7a1a98 (I have no SS otherwise)
fringe urchin
anyone free wanna help me with something real quick thats beast at assassin
solid lava
guys, anyone know the soft and hard cap for our stats as assa ?
floral frost
for m+, SS is a must
solid lava
how much % I need for haste, crit and mastery, soft and hard cap
main flicker
Not sure there is one
coarse knot
There’s isn’t a haste cap
main flicker
I mean is there even any hard/soft caps?
solid lava
well
spice surge
Not for assa, the only cap i know of if frost mages crit
main flicker
spice surge
Otherwise just get stats
coarse knot
Basically
solid lava
before I was focus on Haste for my Rogue
since I changed to mastery
I get way more good logs
more dps
spice surge
🤔
main flicker
Do ur rotation correctly and it should be fine
coarse knot
Interesting
spice surge
Then you started playing better
main flicker
That sounds off