rip
#assassination
dusk sun
steep ridge
normally you see a mark on the minimap
shut robin
ask google
kind steppe
What is "MA" ( master assassin I guess ) you guys refers to ? Cuz I don't know any traits called that way
obtuse robin
look for the big cog icon on map thats the scrapper
shut robin
its a talent..
kind steppe
you don't need the 2 dot but thx for answering
shut robin
np..
rotund stone
Subterfuge been ninja hotfixed yet?
obtuse robin
yes
rotund stone
Thanks
languid dawn
SS doestn seem to be procing for me..
hidden anchor
SS nerfed too?
spice surge
Na
strange python
did they fix the shark boss spawn bug or should i use different traits?
rotund stone
How about new Darkshore world boss bonus roll? Wonder if they ninja fixed that.
gaunt yew
did they buff Construct Overcharger? now simming better than frenetic corpuscle
obtuse robin
ninja buffed ages ago
dusk sun
i scrapped every azerite i had and no currency from it even 1 xD
echo cargo
World Boss trinket doesn't sim too well =\
short token
do we have a new talent guide somewhere?
ripe nimbus
Don't need one nothing's changed
short token
so they fixed vanish+SS ?
ripe nimbus
Yes
ripe nimbus
Like almost 2 hours after patch it's been fixed for awhile
lone junco
@fleet anchor And will be impossible to balance around I think you are probably right. MA fok in fat trash, cant just fling waves. I think a stacking 5% white buff to fok capping at like 25% is easier to handle.
fleet anchor
I am making an illustration of this
lone junco
goes from zero in st to massive multipliers based on trash count.
fleet anchor
But apparently they have updated the hotfix somewhat
lone junco
I am interested in HB + EB for the raw Fok value on the initial MA hit though.
fleet anchor
Mystler is reporting that they have made it always crit now but halved the damage. So MA won’t quadruple the output.
lone junco
I saw 19k crits on the opening fok.
fleet anchor
I think the US servers last night only had the damage halving aspect without the crits
But I need to confirm
lone junco
crit on fok, + crit on the 5 waves was nice.
when I went to bed. EB wave could crit.
was like 400 min 1k max.
fleet anchor
Yes but Mystler is saying on EU the EB always crits
lone junco
right
little burrow
People were saying the EB part of it would always crit last night
fleet anchor
That wasn’t happening to me last night after the initial hotfix
So could have been adjusted
Makes a little more sense
lone junco
I hope it is our BIS for fat trash giga pulls.
fleet anchor
But MA is still huge for it
lone junco
and lets SS work for 1-6t
fleet anchor
Just not as huge
lone junco
in raid with array my crit is 50% with MA is that 100%?
short token
what is eb?
lone junco
or is it weird math
fleet anchor
That’s just one example of the interaction here
And why it was so OP initially last night
Not hard to see why 😃
little burrow
Yeah on NA the EB always crits (in my limited testing just now)
lone junco
I will gladly take an option that leads to 50k sustain from mashing fok
fleet anchor
Mystler is going to update SimC shortly. I’m at work atm.
lone junco
I hope they buff the white portion of fok to compensate
lone junco
it was gutted, and is being repaired.
was live for a few hours at 100k dps
those trash details looked silly
fleet anchor
I would expect with the additional fix they made it should still be good for dungeons
lone junco
I hope so
fleet anchor
Although not sure about any raid encounters
fleet anchor
It was already borderline on Zek’voz
next grotto
What is wrong with vanish and subt
fleet anchor
And it’s much weaker now
lone junco
@next grotto Was bug. should be fixed now
fleet anchor
Hard to really address dungeon vs raid due to MA also
fleet anchor
Sims are not updated
Because Blizzard changed the data a little bit
Will require some code changes
Not just pulling hotfixes
surreal torrent
updated my note in #tc-updates, simc update will have to wait a mom, dinner+raid, but i'll get on it asap
lone junco
the always crit should be easier to balance right?
spice surge
Aah i see
final stone
So subtuerfuge still broke. Or was that nurf intended
fleet anchor
MA still basically triples the output for most players with low Crit rates
Just due to additional procs
lone junco
will be funny there, because the agi weight will drop. Crit will go through the roof so Ilvl can tank for crit in cleave.
fleet anchor
It just no longer doubles it beyond that 😄
lone junco
@final stone bug. not intended.
fleet anchor
Last night baseline vs. MA with 25% Crit
final stone
I wonder if I should replace my ss trait I have with something else and run MA until itsfixed
lone junco
50% isnt attainable without archive
lone junco
will be funny to drop to 355 ilvl to push 100% stealth crit
dusky tinsel
So 2xSS 1xEB with subt sound good? Or is 3xEB with MA still doing more for you folks?
novel moss
Did they fix subter talent yet?
dusky tinsel
Yes
novel moss
Sweet thanks
fallow estuary
How strong does Nothing Personal look like so far?
tropic shadow
This was a spicy meme pre-nerf, packs were deleted nearly instantly
languid dawn
unstable flams is top 2nd choice now?
tropic shadow
With the the EB/MA setup prior to nerf it was the optimal choice
nova gazelle
Did anyone try the new "Dungeon slice" sim for m+? Is it accurate?
tropic shadow
But since EB is crit reliant it is a good choice anyway
languid dawn
SO with SS, heed my call and cut ripper are still top?
glacial grotto
EB still good with nerf?
lone junco
@nova gazelle dungeon slice is very good. there are things to tweak, but it is the best tool we have.
strange python
EB is trash according to sims
lone junco
@glacial grotto maybe. balancing tbd.
shut robin
sims are not updated
strange python
Yes they are
shut robin
no
lone junco
@strange python there has been another adjusment since that early sim.
strange python
for EB?
lone junco
yeah. koji was just talking about it.
cut the value but force 100% crit on the waves.
anyway. tbd
tropic citrus
!WA
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
EB still won't overtake SS imo
waxen arch
EB?
strange python
I've seen the damage from before and after
shut robin
again, blizzard has adjusted the trait after the hotfix
neon path
Havent played since patch. Did they nerf Echoing Blades yet
shy escarp
within hours
shut robin
yes
strange python
Idk mate nothing is documented
shut robin
it has 100% crit now
spice surge
The extra waves*
cobalt gyro
Nah it was always critting
neon path
So its not Utterly Broken like last night. Thanks
heady ore
Hey guys, coming back from a 2 month pause. Is SS still overpowered ?
fast nacelle
my fok gear for uldir trash is rdy
https://i.imgur.com/DzaV4AD.png
wanton lava
spice surge
Nerfed != useless
strange python
fast nacelle
i think people dont understand how broken it was
strange python
They do
strange python
Yeah because the initial nerf made it a dogshit trait
Bet he can still flex on trash with it tho 😃
soft warren
what they change to Vendetta ?
shut robin
nothing?
steep ridge
just a new trait for vendetta
fast nacelle
vendetta trait is maybe good for pvp
soft warren
a
strange python
new ven trait has been nerfed by 50% for pvp
shut robin
Why even have a ptr xD
wispy plaza
would people prefer the new vendette x2 or SS x2 with a AoT ?
strange python
Sim it
soft warren
NP worth now for pve?
obtuse robin
just to be clear raidbots is updated with the nerf to eb but is nopt updated for the 100 % crit correct?
shut robin
correct
dawn coyote
Can anyone tell me if the sim used on herodamage for trinkets is without any azerite traits at all?
I can only assume that's why I'm getting so wildly differing results to the graph they have
shut robin
you can see it if you hover over the azerite armor
on the gear
*under
shows the traits used
dawn coyote
aha! thank you
shut robin
np :p
nova gazelle
So what would be the new optimal talents for m+ now? EP with MA?
shut robin
plenty of people log onto the ptr, but blizzard just don't listen to feedback and wait with changing gamebreaking stuff untill live xd
shy escarp
all these things were known. blizzard has just demonstrated time and again that they have more faith in their internal estimates than what players say
and are consistently proven wrong
and then we end up with the first couple weeks of every major patch being a spam of hotfixes as blizzard realizes they were horribly bad at math
strange python
Anyone not able to build combo points
I have tried /reload but I can't even finisher
delicate root
strange python
Will try, ty
white seal
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
obtuse robin
so since eb 100 % crits now has any1 tested with nightstalker
waxen arch
what is EB
novel moss
Tbh I still suspect subterfuge will be better over all with 2x ss and 1xEB for like this weeks affixs
lone junco
Eb gets MA.
novel moss
and NP will probably be situational but most like the uldir agi stack trait will be better overall
@waxen arch Echoing Blades
waxen arch
Ty
obtuse robin
u dint need ma if eb is 100 % criting
dont
i just dod more dmg with nightstalker but limted testing ofc
grim valley
hello guys, tonight i'm on ghuun mm, what azerith should i run, or what's the best setup to sim ?
final stone
@grim valley are you going to play sin
grim valley
yes ? i shouldnt ?
final stone
You'll want as many gutrippers as you can get for secondary as far as main traits archive dd is good ss is good
Just depends on what you have
indigo yacht
obtuse robin
why would u want gutripper
fringe lily
does SS sim properly now?
final stone
More damage for p3
velvet kernel
execute
final stone
^
winter moss
when does EB "reset"
lone junco
@obtuse robin ma pushes the proc. So if yo plan to use EB. It should be with ma.
grim valley
playinh blindside is an option for ghuun ?
pulsar steppe
bloodmallet says that laser matrix is about same with archive while having 10 stacks. but i feel like laser matrix does nothing, is it better to go with archive?
obtuse robin
sure but u would want to push the dmg on a 100 % crit mehcanic
nightstalker is 50 % more dmg
if ur running crit mastery its a no brainer to me
maybe ium wrong idk
u would be correct that if the packs blow up u prolly want ma
tbh
the higher the key esp on fortified i would mess around with ns
nova gazelle
This is the highest sim I get right now with "Dungeon Slice" sim
https://gyazo.com/496db3ea35a763f8e131d1e43ae18c1b
Is it accurate? It feels weird to replace my 3x 385 SS
obtuse robin
u trying to sim for m+ or like a zul encounter?
acoustic cave
nova gazelle
m+
vestal wren
@gaunt isle you have 10 bosses
gaunt isle
no i dont, clearly a bug on your end!? @vestal wren
vestal wren
XD
calm hatch
hey there 😄 just a question, is a bug with 4th garrote still ongoing? if you apply it after 3 subterfuge empowered garrotes, that it resets the empowered ones? or did they fix that?
vestal wren
nice try tho
nova gazelle
Well someone else here said that the new "Dungeon Slice" was good for m+ simming
sturdy python
No culth it's fixed
gaunt isle
@vestal wren its clearly just my gear optimization and knowledge of the class
obtuse robin
huh
idk ppl like speedoflife say patchwerk 6 bosses 1 min for m+
for aoe
i think ashine says the same thing
calm hatch
so we can apply 4 now? that's nice then ^^
also, i might need a bit of help here, idk why do i sim so low tbh with the gear and all, not sure if it's up to the stats or...?
Any help would be appreciated! ^^
gaunt isle
hectic add cleave usually works best for me, but you proably just want to stack crit anyways now with new traits, to get numbers like me @obtuse robin
nova gazelle
I mean, that's what I usually always did, but 4 instead of 6, but wanted to try the new Dungeon Slice sim to see if it was accurate or not
gaunt isle
@calm hatch you should sim way more at 381 tbh, i sim around 19k with slightly higher ilvl
calm hatch
yeah i know, that's why i'm wondering :S 😦
agile elk
@calm hatch i’m willing to bet you don’t have 10 stacks of array or don’t have a laser matrix/archive equipped
gaunt isle
you are right on both fronts @agile elk
gaunt isle
you have too little haste, you socket agi which is wrong, you dont have archive with 10 stacks, easy theres your dps @calm hatch
vestal wren
@obtuse robin it comes down to what you want to sim, if you want to sim sustained aoe 5 or 6 bosses are fine
regal tundra
@calm hatch no archive or laser matrix equipped, you can't proc reorigination array, that's why you have a low sim
calm hatch
tku all 😄 will check it out that way, yeah i don't have it equipped
vestal wren
well 6 bosses aoe means you have never downtimes, no lower target situations nor any situation where a add dies to early to apply bleeds
obtuse robin
no dowentime?
vestal wren
no
vestal wren
also without dissabling certain raid buffs/etc you look at wrong results for m+
so 6 bosses 6 mins seems to me like a sustained aoe sim
obtuse robin
6 bosses 1 min
vestal wren
means you have the same issues just for 1 min
obtuse robin
i forget how it was explained to me
spare flame
Is subterfuge fixed?
obtuse robin
1 min would be thats when the trash pack dies
vestal wren
unless he dissables bl/etc hes ruining the accuracy of it
obtuse robin
i mean yea u thoery craft around the buffs ofc
olive peak
is there still a bug with subterfurge?
vestal wren
you would need to:
dissable pots in apl
dissable raid buffs and bl
vestal wren
and even then you have the targets up 100% of time, its not an accurate measurement. also given the armor calculation is for bosses
olive peak
GUYS IMPORTANT is the bug with subterfuge not pproccing from vanish still there or they fixed it?
wary ice
since we're discussing sims; Does the dungeon slice account for restealths between packs?
or more generally dropping combat
vestal wren
hectic add cleave spawns a lot of adds
obtuse robin
that is x3 eb fyi
obtuse robin
ohh wait
wary ice
1/5 of the scorpion?
wary ice
@olive peak I heard it was fixed but havent gotten to play with it yet
olive peak
@wary ice k ty
nova gazelle
is it just me or is Subterfuge not proccing empowered Garrotes anymore at all?
stark folio
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
kind eagle
@nova gazelle its hasn't been fixed yet.
nova gazelle
so in otherwords, subterfuge and SS is completely useless for m+
kind eagle
it was an unintentional thing that happened and they are supposed to be fixing it, that on top of the EB nerf my lowly 370 rogue feelbadman
scenic nacelle
Thought it was hotfixed last night?
nova gazelle
The EB yes, but the Subterfuge is not proccing for me at all
cobalt forge
the subterfuge fix happened around the same time as the eb nerf
scenic nacelle
Yea thats what I thought
kind eagle
EB was nerfed, i don't see my subterfuge garrotes doing the extra dmg
fleet anchor
Subterfuge should be hotfixed afaik
nova gazelle
Then how come none of my garrotes are empowered?
fleet anchor
Worth noting this could be worked around last night by just waiting for the Vanish buff to fade for 3s
primal gazelle
did they buff eb again or is it still shit?
nova gazelle
ur not getting what I'm saying here, subterfuge isn't proccing at all for me, with or without Vanish
kind eagle
i just tested it on a dummy my subertfuge is now working properly it looks like
fleet anchor
Did you leave Master Assassin on when using Echoing Blades? 😄
nova gazelle
no......
scenic nacelle
Got your shrouded azerite pieces on?
kind eagle
i will say that i'm using the luxthos WA package and it no longer shows green numbers on my countdown for the buff for the empowred garrotes
nova gazelle
Same here
fleet anchor
I mean with the workaround they definitely were still working last night
kind eagle
@nova gazelle you are using the luxthos wa package as well?
prime crater
subterfuge bugged rn
steel heart
Bugged or nerf?
fleet anchor
Still was able to get 21.4k on Fetid and that’d not be possible if Subterfuge multiplier wasn’t functioning.
prime crater
bugged they working on fix
kind eagle
wish blizz would be more commucative about when they fix shit
nova gazelle
@kind eagle yes
steel heart
Mine was bugged only when I vanish
little burrow
It works for me
prime crater
little burrow
It's fixed
kind eagle
@nova gazelle yea i noticed last night that the WA package stopped showing green text as well, i think it maybe an issue with the WA package versus the actual function of the abilites
steel heart
@little burrow when, last night wasn't
little burrow
Yes it was
nova gazelle
@kind eagle nah, something fishy here, Suffered suffocation isnt even proccing for me
little burrow
It was fixed just before they nerfed EB
kind eagle
I'm running EBx2 and 1 SS, i don't have a second piece of SS gear. i'm wondering if EB is still worth having or if i should be shooting for the 2nd SS piece
frail knoll
steel heart
Got 2 doesn't work
little burrow
I guarantee you, it's fixed
steel heart
Wait na or europe?
kind eagle
im in NA
nova gazelle
EU here
little burrow
I'm NA, pretty sure they're the same but it might be a difference
fleet anchor
EU has the same hotfixes atm
radiant fossil
Eu here and ss works with vanish for me
nova gazelle
@radiant fossil shouldnt SS show up on dps meters if it's working? same with empowered?
calm hatch
@obtuse robin how did you sim 77k there 😮
kind eagle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
nova gazelle
@kind eagle Seems like subterfuge and SS is working properly, just compared it all manually with DPS meters, it's Luxthos WA that's not working properly anymore sadly
kind eagle
yea thats what i figured out as well
i really like the Luxthos layout and package
i hope he updates it soon
shut robin
you can actually see if subterfuge works if the target gets a silence from garrote on it
nova gazelle
That is never guaranteed Kali hence too Blizzard being dumbnuts
rare jackal
is EB useless now?
nova gazelle
I'm not even talking about the silence......
shut robin
well I am
shut robin
^
sturdy python
Except the first use anyway
solar bramble
I haven’t looked yet, at work. How heavy was the be nerf. I expected it but how bad
Eb*
nova gazelle
The issue here was if sub procced the empowered garrote dmg, not if it silenced..
nova gazelle
Once again ur talking about something else, clearly not reading it all, anyway, the issue is resolved
shut robin
you were talking about subterfuge not working, if it was not working you would not be able to put that garrote silence on the target
hence why, you could see if subterfuge was working if the target got the silence
I never talked about ss
nova gazelle
I was talking about subterfuge not proccing the EMPOWERED GARROTE DAMMAGE
solar bramble
75% nerf lol. So EB not even worth taking now?
pallid snow
they did compensate for the damage nerf
pallid snow
it always crits
shut robin
all I said was that you could see if subt worked by seeing if the target got the silence, nothing else xD and you talk about ss damage
nova gazelle
SS and the empowered Garrote from Subterfuge are 2 different things
solar bramble
What ways crit? EB? That’s still over a 50% nerf
primal gazelle
when did they buff EB to always crits?
sturdy python
It's pretty simple. You were talking about subt and SS proccing. Kali said you can tell when SUBTERFUGE procs from the silence
solar bramble
I’m asking idk. Someone said always crit a. Didn’t say what
shut robin
@sturdy python just forget it, he dosnt understand :p
sturdy python
Kali was talking about one of your two points, not both
nova gazelle
Ur both dumb or trolling for sure
shut robin
?????
willow cypress
Lol this guy
shut robin
are you serious?
nova gazelle
Let me break it down for you
willow cypress
Only dude on retail with a problem and raging at people trying to figure it out
short relic
Where are we seeing the EB nerf? I can’t find anything on mmo champion about it...
primal gazelle
its on wowhead
fickle zinc
can you link ples
kind eagle
@nova gazelle I fixed the Luxthos WA package
nova gazelle
@shut robin @sturdy python If u use Subterfuge without an SS trait, you get an empowered Garrote which will also silence the target, so much we know, right? Now if u add an SS trait to it, that empowered Garrote will be even stronger, however, what you both didnt understand in my question was if the Subterfuge procced that empowered Garrote at all regardless of having an SS trait or not.
@kind eagle how man, did he release an update?
kind eagle
@nova gazelle I talked to luxthos via twitter and he said to manually search for and update weakauras2 to the 8.1 version and it fixes the issue we are having with properly tracking the empowred garrotes. I did this via the twitch launcher. i had to go in and use the search for more addons to find weakauras2 again and make sure its the 8.1 version
and it workedc
nova gazelle
lol it was that simple after all, thanks for letting me know @kind eagle
kind eagle
WA is having a lot issues he said and the newest updates are not auto loading for people i noticed so i had to search it out manually
but its fixed
keen inlet
Div gets today's MVP award
kind eagle
now to get blizz to un nerf EB
keen inlet
Nagannahappen
kind eagle
rip the dream
solar bramble
Eb went for. 100% pick to never pick. The nerf was so harsh it doesn’t seem usable
Back to ss
solar bramble
A 75% nerf. . He says it’s not that bad
kind eagle
@solar bramble i have 2 EB pieces and only 1 SS piece so i'm still using it. I'm a lower ilvl only 370 and I noticed the aoe dmg in crease still. Its nothing like it was last night but its still a dmg up for me at this level
main blaze
Echo had the problem of being zero st damage
sturdy python
Did you see how strong it was?
fickle zinc
what is EB please not familar with english terms 😄 ?
sturdy python
Just throwing around 75 doesn't mean anything
kind eagle
EB is echoing blades trait
main blaze
While scent and SS were valued in st
fickle zinc
Oh ok ty 😃
sturdy python
It's not as bad as you're making I out to be. Yes, it not having St value is the real problem
solar bramble
If the AoE increase isn’t at least 10-15% I won’t touch it. It has 0 st, so I won’t trade shrouded for it and lose that much boss dmg, unless the increase on trash is significant enough
kind eagle
i think with the upcoming ring addtions to the azerite peices, having some that EB and SS on them will fix that issue no?
solar bramble
Nope, I’ll just use 3 shrouded and some st traits
Be has literally no st value. Which is just too heavy to not have strong AoE
rare jackal
so is EB dead or?
solar bramble
Depends. It is to me, idk how others see it. Will wait for actuall numbers to know for sure
kind eagle
Last night i went from hitting 36k dps on the dummies with EB to hitting for 22k dps. The nerf was real
cedar kelp
EB is dead to me now, the premium (dps gain) on aoe for the wasted ST is not enough
kind eagle
@ a 370ilvl
solar bramble
Agreed. The AoE really needs to be substantial or I won’t touch it
kind eagle
i'm hoping they realized that 75% was a knee jerk reaction and bring it back up a bit, but blizzards track records says otherwise
solar bramble
I’d say swap to sub. . .but they just lost shuriken combo
fair sparrow
I tried testing 3x ss and 2xeb 1x ss and 3xss is slighty better (360 head, 375 other two pieces for both setups)
this is on dummys in zuldazar, not dungeon
thick jacinth
You ever read what people type and just know they've only played rogue for a solid 2 weeks at most?
hot flume
Any guild who had an issue with extended id ?
viscid onyx
whats EB?
thick jacinth
Ironic that I was actually talking about you.. 
primal gazelle
awkward
solar bramble
Don’t matter to me.
idle vigil
im new to rogue
solar bramble
Curious though. What caused the opinion
idle vigil
is there a good set of weak auras i can use as a base so i dont have to create everything
and i can just modify
thick jacinth
People spewing out info without any remote source, they nerf was substancial for sure but more than likely not the last time they're going to tweak it. It just needed to be fixed immediately till they can manage it properly.
visual quartz
How does the EB "first 5 crits" work. first 5 on battle, intern cd?
signal summit
solar bramble
Blizzard doesn’t like to rebuff anything. If they do I’ll welcome it. But lately it’s mostly just nerfs
signal summit
dat sim starts to be big
thick jacinth
And even caring about anything right now when the introduction of another tier of traits changes literally everything is even more of a yikes.
solar bramble
That’s less about rogue btw and more blizzard related. Yet it means rogue specifically I’ve played for 2 weeks
timber mauve
hero damage has Nothing Personal pretty high, is that incorrect? bad commit?
thick jacinth
Having one feels nice Jeey.
strange python
@timber mauve Check it?
thick jacinth
I don't know if it actually performs all that great.
cobalt gyro
I think EB is much healthier now after their adjustments
solar bramble
On January 22nd you might use 1 eb. Dependss. I likely won’t unless it has more AoE than ss
thick jacinth
You can have both.
solar bramble
By a fair margin
cobalt gyro
But it was very clearly broken, it wasn't "substantial" damage. Just busted.
strange python
SS is still better than EB
solar bramble
I’d have st traits over eb. Unless fortified and large pulls consistently. Then maybe 1
That’s personal preference entirely
thick jacinth
What ST traits are you referring too.
gusty plinth
Nothing Personal trait showing now correctly on sims?
crystal ravine
Real noob question here, I’m pretty new to rogue: do you always wanna wait for 5 combo points to envenom?
cobalt gyro
Tbh you balance ST damage and aoe damage in n+ anyway
solar bramble
1 nothing personal, likely 2 double dose as it stands.
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
cobalt gyro
@crystal ravine 4 or 5, or 5 or 6 with deeper strat
crystal ravine
Thanks @strange python
thick jacinth
double dose is actual trash in m+ tho
crystal ravine
And the rest of you 😃
cobalt gyro
It isn't
thick jacinth
in it's current state it isn't all that hot but they will tune it
solar bramble
It’s usable on the bosses. I’d have 3 ss for trash and some boss. Other 3 for bosses
thick jacinth
it was a quick oh fuck we fucked up lets nerf it to handle it right now
cedar kelp
its literally better to have 3x ss rn over having any EB
solar bramble
If they tune it sure. I just don’t have faith blitz will or is capable of it atm
Not with their recent history
thick jacinth
if you get more than like 1.5% double dose dmg out of a dungeon boss i'd be very surprised.
with 2 traits even
rare jackal
@kind eagle thanks for posting the luxthos fix
thick jacinth
100%
vital haven
luxthos fix?
solar bramble
I’ll just use what sims best for me on ST if that’s the case. Just won’t use EB if it doesn’t beat ss in AoE
rare jackal
@vital haven it wasnt displaying empowered garrotes properly
thick jacinth
I'll more than likely decide between Scent and EB
if having 1 EB is good then I'll run both.
kind eagle
@rare jackal NP i knew i wasn't the only one having issues
thick jacinth
3x SS, 1x nothing personal, 2 EB if it's buffed again.
primal gazelle
EB "needs" to be better than SS in aoe situation to be worth it, because it offers 0 st gains
rare jackal
just reinstalled WA in the middle of the raid break hope it works now 😅
solar bramble
3 shrouded and what I’ll use. The other 3 are best st sims for me on those pieces
wary ice
is there a new raid trait?
thick jacinth
like an array sort of thing?
wary ice
ye
thick jacinth
don't believe so
strange python
hopefully not
primal gazelle
scent
vital haven
are there any good ones specifically
ripe comet
did blizz fix the subterfuge bug with the EB nerf ?
primal gazelle
drops a scent of blood azerite helm
primal gazelle
scent ss
thick jacinth
same as before
ripe comet
or do we still need to wait 3 secs after vanish ?
primal gazelle
the usual
vital haven
standard exsang CT
past star
coolio
thick jacinth
honestly wish we could outright buy the 355 and 370 pieces
spare nebula
So have they nerfed EB yet?
pliant sorrel
I’m late to the party, but wasn’t there supposed to be twist the knife changes?
thick jacinth
like ashine runs 340 helm just for 3x SS
unkempt karma
To just get a specific 385 one will take forever
thick jacinth
yeah I just wanna end the season on higher than 1900
io
and having no SS trait hurts
pliant sorrel
I have so many fucking twist the knife pieces, I swore I saw somewhere it was getting bugged :/
unkempt karma
I got 2x 375 ss
pliant sorrel
Buffed*
unkempt karma
but 1x 385 echoes, 1x 385 dits, and sob 385
primal gazelle
couldve killed fetid like 14 times by now for the ss chest lol
lilac spade
Did they buff SS?
thick jacinth
fetid chest no luck for me
rare jackal
i have 3 390 EB pieces 😭
thick jacinth
up to 7 mythic kills now or something stupid
vital haven
for like 2 hours you mustve felt like a god @rare jackal LUL
dusky tinsel
nightly sims are telling me 2xSS 1 EB for M+
vital haven
oh rip
thick jacinth
is EB updated on sims though?
unkempt karma
:/
dusky tinsel
yeah it has to be, or else my HB and 3xEB would win out easily
cunning fiber
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cunning urchin
What's eb?
cunning urchin
Oooh gotcha
left ridge
Hi just saw this comment from blizz on subterfuge: https://www.wowhead.com/spell=115192/subterfuge#comments
strange python
How does EB sim for m+?
left ridge
Any news about this ?
strange python
Is it worth to run in m?
slow mortar
is there a way to track time til energy cap? preferably through weak auras
sharp token
simple (max - current)/energyregen?
austere scarab
Where'd you guys grab EB gear from?
sharp token
or do you want to include bleed procs?
harsh sphinx
does vers effect SS
slow mortar
everything that would influence energy, haste/venomous wounds/etc
i found a monk WA and tinkering with it
but idk if monk energy = rogue energy
got it, had to take out a weird talent thing in the custom code 😐
pliant nest
looks to me that the vanish bug from yesterday is fixed, right?
lusty narwhal
It is yeah
earnest pumice
nothing personal any good in 8.1 ?
quick fog
@austere scarab Vectis head, pvp shoulders, have not looked for a chest
idle vigil
Does anyone have any weak auras to show when an empowered garrote
is being used
Also how does refreshing an empowered garrote with a regular garrote work?
summer timber
it replaces it
you want to let the empowered one fall of before replaceing it
and you should knows its empowered cuz you would have used it right out of stealth i dont think you need a WA for that
fading ocean
what trinkets do you guys like using on fort week in m+
im using the pvp proc and harlans
summer timber
i use the haste one from storm and fathums
modest badge
^^
hazy geyser
fathoms is still useful? wtf
fading ocean
it can make up for some boss damage if you're using aoe gear/talents
hazy geyser
i got 365 galecollar and like 380 or 385 dice idk if its worth it
gale is disgusting with berserking exsang
pliant nest
hey was Echoing Blades nerfed already?
modest badge
i rather have dice so i dont have to push another button
cobalt gyro
Yes, EB was nerfed already
lusty narwhal
Dice and the haste trink from Taloc goes alright
hazy geyser
for me exsang is always simming higher maybe its cuz i am a troll
taloc one is so bad
lusty narwhal
For m+ its not
hazy geyser
it sounds good but i looked at the stacking and you rarely keep the haste before resetting
lusty narwhal
And wtf do you mean bring poison rogue back haha, its been back forever
hazy geyser
also gales isnt random which helps with bursting
quick fog
Only using the Taloc one cause I got a 390 socketed
hazy geyser
i havent used toxic blade since 3.7.5 cuz exsang is always simming higher
especially with SS now
modest badge
gale doesnt feel like it does anything
hazy geyser
for me atleast
lusty narwhal
Weird
hazy geyser
gale feels so good maybe its cuz i am used to using it but i love it
lusty narwhal
To be fair most trinkets dont feel like they do anything
quick fog
I've never had Exs sim better for me.
hazy geyser
are you a B elf?
cobalt gyro
gale's "good" but it's also meh for m+
quick fog
It's always a landslide one way or the other for the player weird.
hazy geyser
yea.. i can see that since you dont really need that much haste in m+
lusty narwhal
Last trinket that felt like it actually did shit was the KJ trink when you doubled it up
cobalt gyro
less about the haste, more about needing to stand still
not going to happen very often
hazy geyser
yea but since exsang takes a snapshot of your current haste you dont need to stay in it which is pretty helpful
quick fog
To be fair I'm more worried about everything else than snapping my Exs in a + lol
cobalt gyro
i've been running plumage, more reliable
hazy geyser
m+ rarely has any mechanics what are you worrying about lol
lone junco
the 100% crit blade is live.
hazy geyser
plumage? which one is that
quick fog
Explosives, kicks, kidneys, etc
hazy geyser
oh that stuff
lone junco
max crit fok 18.5k from the hb
pliant nest
100% crit blade? what?
hazy geyser
100% crit sounds balanced LUL
cobalt gyro
EB
peak juniper
Anyone know if vanish got hot fixed?
hazy geyser
damn i hope i have a 385 piece with that on it for my M+ gear
pliant nest
hm yea that sim looked a lot different yesterday
lusty narwhal
Is that for m+ or st lol
cobalt gyro
that's hero dungeon
vast forum
finally killed mythrax, rank 3 world 8.1 🙃
lusty narwhal
Same piece
vast forum
just came to brag
hazy geyser
holy fuck echoing is NUTS on hecticaddcleave on bloodmallet
lusty narwhal
Pog
hazy geyser
it must be bugged there is no way it adds 14.7k dps when stacking 3
lone junco
fok max of 4k. whereas HB fok max is near 19k.
lusty narwhal
How many traits is that
lone junco
3
cobalt gyro
bloodmallet didn't update it
hazy geyser
man holy shit echoing blades is a must for m+ now
cobalt gyro
that's what the old sim was
lusty narwhal
How the fk do you have 3 already hahah
cobalt gyro
by not throwing away gear
lusty narwhal
Its not a must...
cobalt gyro
i have a 3 stack
strange python
lone junco
trading ct for HB means HB gets 19k MA on each target. on the open
quick fog
I had 2 already lol.
wanton mortar
i tried earlier feel so bad the EB
hazy geyser
bronze kelp
cause EB replaced FoK trait? i also got 3 EB pieces
fading ocean
meh id still rather go shrouded for m+ since it's still a decent trait for single target, EB does absolutely nothing ST wise
lone junco
AANNNDDD
cobalt gyro
yes, bloodmallet didn't update
hazy geyser
idk that looks pretty good
primal gazelle
thats outdated
cobalt gyro
that's what it looked like yesterday
lone junco
know that the Profile used for that HB didnt stack crit.
lusty narwhal
Bloodmallet isnr accurate atm
cobalt gyro
pre-nerf
lusty narwhal
Herodamage all the way fam
strange python
SS still king I guess
hazy geyser
bruh wtf
lusty narwhal
Lmaooo
hazy geyser
are we back to legion?
cobalt gyro
it was so good it was very hard to not just instantly die in m+
primal gazelle
turn off RA
quick fog
Are we on 1 ss 1 EB 1 arch now? Or cheesing 3 EB still?
hazy geyser
i feel 1 SS is a must if you are going exsang
strange python
So idk
quick fog
I like 1,1,1
lusty narwhal
Nothing personal trait isnt as good as id hoped
ornate monolith
1 SS is really quality of life with those 2 extra combo points.
cobalt gyro
i was thinking of 2 SS 1 EB
lost sentinel
did EB change again? thought it was shit now
lusty narwhal
@lone junco how are you 18.7k sim with 375 azerites lol
lost sentinel
thought it was real bad based on herodamage's list
quick fog
It's the same idea as the SS nerf. It was nerfed by a good amount but the application rate of it makes it still so good to use.
cobalt gyro
no it was way more broken than SS
slow mortar
got +30 chest with nothing personal and it replaces SS
quick fog
The ideal of the nerf. eb was way more busted for sure
normal spear
2x EB 1x SS it is then
heavy haven
guys whats about new vendetta trait? its good?
strange python
@normal spear Why 2x eb and 1ss?
heavy haven
maybe 1 archive 1 ss + 1 vendetta?
quick fog
I do think you disservice EB by not playing MA though
lusty narwhal
Its average
flat portal
anyone having an issue with combo points ? using mutilate whiel doing wq's wont give me cp's :>
worldly raft
Eb dosent work for me, sims lower then this setup
cobalt gyro
do you have lots of crit
lost sentinel
if I am running SS, I am running subt, not MA heh
cobalt gyro
EB really inflates the crit weight
normal spear
my EB piece is 385, SS only 370
cobalt gyro
MA makes it proc more
hazy geyser
i got lucky and my 390 piece has EB on it
cobalt gyro
that wasn't why you took MA
hazy geyser
god my m+ gear is looking good
lusty narwhal
Fixed
normal spear
why not?
hazy geyser
even after vanish?
lusty narwhal
Yes
hazy geyser
nice
past star
im not sure what to play for talents and azerite gear in m+
strange python
Thanks
primal gazelle
MA made it proc more yeah, but MA also double dipped dps for EB becaues it made the proc, itself crit, but now it always crit anyways
so ma doesnt benefit the proc dmg
strange python
@normal spear What talent are u playing, MA or Subt?
lusty narwhal
SS or EB in dungeons, both good
past star
i feel like i do less dps with exsang and CT than with toxic blade and poison bomb
hazy geyser
i feel like CT isnt that good for m+
quick fog
I think you should be MA, Ct if you run EB
normal spear
subt, i don't like MA
hazy geyser
yea double SS with subt is really good
quick fog
Try it vs 385 eb with ma
lost sentinel
depends on your stats, not just the ilvl
hazy geyser
or even just 3 SS on 3 targets
strange python
Yeah but he's running SUBT @quick fog
quick fog
I'd rather take my higher stats and change talents personally
normal spear
it doesn't really outsim 385 EB, but EB has 0 value on ST, so I guess that little margin makes SS just better overall
lone junco
if you pull small like the slice
quick fog
Is that with changing talents?
quick fog
I know they do ss+sub on there but do they have eb+ma on it?
lone junco
22k fok open per target is nice
hazy geyser
my m+ gear is lookin good now https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sr6v9wnac4MhC6wHrapUVD
strange python
yeah ofcs EB is better than SS with MA
quick fog
So play your better, higher, piece and switch talents
There's a value to the stamina on that piece also
It's just not for dps obv
scenic nacelle
yes
peak juniper
ty
scenic nacelle
What are you running?
lone junco
3fok
primal gazelle
ma or no ma
lone junco
the hb opens really big
20k per hit
just running for lols rn
the st is dog shit tho
scenic nacelle
of course, they are AOE traits 😛
primal gazelle
ss is an aoe trait
scenic nacelle
but its fine for fortified week soooo
primal gazelle
isnt dog shit for st
strange python
no its not
lone junco
right
but ive run hundred dungeons with 3ss. fok is different. and there isnt a mob cap
primal gazelle
it just sucks that we have to choose 1 or the other
we dont have enough traits that benefits both st/aoe
lone junco
yeah. when you get 6 you wont do both either
3scent. 3ss. or 3scent 3 fok.
doubt fok makes the cut though
you can dump like 8 fok without a single rupture though.
7
ancient compass
did they fix vanish yet?
lusty narwhal
Yes
ancient compass
thank god
lusty narwhal
I feel like 2-3ss is still king because od the added ST bonus as well. Just gunna stay the same
ancient compass
the new azerite gear looks super strong with some of the combos
lone junco
I hoped twist + dd bump
remote leaf
have they nerfed echoing blades yet?
lone junco
ish
strange python
14h later, still questions about EB being nerfed or not 😃
lone junco
it was nerfed then buffed
jaunty salmon
EB = ?
jaunty salmon
k
somber egret
Anybody get zul logs before they turned EB off? Lol
lone junco
I have two that can overlap
the GCB and Juju both are haste procs, can align them with Exang
so my take. worth not much.
Ss wins in Slice due to ST. but in a magical world of giga pulls. Fok is going to be a monster
which you may not run sin for that, but if you could hearth out and respec, you could pull 20x for fok, and then swap to ss.
aka. Ill run ss, cause we pull small like the slice sim.
strange python
If its not applicable in "real world", its worth 0.
lone junco
it is applicable to big keys.
if you have seen the freehold pulls of 30x mobs
not to me though.
primal gazelle
i think the lack of ST value is enough to be useless for big keys
lone junco
depends i think.
alpine rain
Feels goooood
untold current
deleted post
lone junco
@alpine rain is that a world boss?
alpine rain
World boss trinket with socket
lone junco
agi socket crit is amazing
alpine rain
Fathoms still outsimmed it
lone junco
not in cleave
alpine rain
Patchwerk
eager steeple
If you'se using the Suberfuge talent, does your opener use Garrote till the buff wears off or do you just use garrote once, move to mutilate, rupture, toxic blade?
normal spear
@eager steeple check guide for openers
lone junco
do you have the ss trait?
normal spear
shrouded suffocation, azerite trait. do you have it?
lone junco
if you are still leveling. are you talking solo or dungeon dps?
eager steeple
I'm trying to learn how to play for when I start doing M+
lone junco
g g g ct fok fok r exang fok fok r fok fok r fok fok r.
eager steeple
I didn't take exang
eager steeple
I took posion bomb and toxic blade
untold current
Like is fok honestly that useful though? I mean you get 1 EB spray every pack, maybe with with vanish and then its really back to rupture garrote etc, and FOK wont do anything for boss dmg
normal spear
why would you take CT for 1-2 pack pulls? i don't see much value
eager steeple
Most people don't pull more than 1-2 packs
untold current
Non answer is still not an answer
candid jasper
is bloodmallet up to datE?
strange python
EB is 2nd bis with Subt, and bis with MA for m+
normal spear
a lot of people + he's just leveling => he'll start from lower keys => people won't pull big
eager steeple
whats EB?
untold current
@lone junco I mean empowered spray
old lagoon
Echoing blades
untold current
FOK w/e
untold current
Oh you know waht
cobalt gyro
I mean you're very rarely pulling 1-3 mobs really
lone junco
fokfokfok rupture fok fok rupture fok fok rupture fok fok rupture fokfokfokfokfokfokfokf
untold current
I was thinking of hidden blades
lone junco
i mean. there are plenty of waves.
untold current
rip
candid jasper
Can I assume shrouded sub is still mandatory for 1 slot>?
lone junco
HB is good rn as well. cause the fok trait buffs FOk value which multiplies by HB
untold current
boot me from the channel
lone junco
20k fok hits with HB on pull.
avg fok is 5k. HB open at 20k + on each mob.
I have a 23k fok hit in my details.
cobalt gyro
I probably wouldn't take HB, i tried it but it's.. eh
cobalt gyro
big burst at the start
grave delta
wow 75% fucking ouchy. well it was fun for a single night gamers
old lagoon
I tried HB in some keys last night. It feels okay but you only really get an empowered hit on packs after bosses and the initial one
untold current
If u fok out of stealth though, u dont get the empowered garrotes from Subt?
cobalt gyro
yea i'm thinking CT or PB depending on dungeon
old lagoon
So you wind up getting 3 or 4 hits really. Maybe a 5th
untold current
oh right
south sierra
How when I sim laser matrix in my chest, then sim another raid chest with shrouded do I drop almost 1.2K dps????
cobalt gyro
array
ocean rain
are the eb nerfs live yet
old lagoon
They’ve been live for like 24 hours now
candid jasper
EB?
old lagoon
What’s the new amount on EB if it’s been rebuffed?
south sierra
Idk bro im kinda cooked rn
untold current
what is smart sim vs dumb sim
south sierra
lmfaooo
eager steeple
so since I'm using Subterfuge, toxic blade and Poison Bomb... my opener would be.... G G G Rupture, Toxic Blade/Exsanguinate, mutilate mutilate, envenom?
old lagoon
@lone junco has it been buffed since the 75% nerf?
strange python
no
lone junco
yes
untold current
nope
old lagoon
Do you know the amount?
lost sentinel
eh, it was 100% crit last night
lone junco
not us
jolly comet
@eager steeple if you are running exsang you want to refresh rup with 5cp before you exsang
old lagoon
@eager steeple G R G Ven TB Carry rotation from here with mut envenoms