yea
#assassination
fresh ginkgo
strange python
But with echo you will always want to pull 5+
fresh ginkgo
well you always wanted to use ct for 4+ pulls anyways
craggy helm
I mean, if you look at balance druid aoe dmg, this still wont even put us on par with that
and sub will prob still do more aoe dmg
so....
I don't see why it would be nerfed
strange python
Sub doesn't do huge AoE damage??
spring iron
I am not the biggest fan of the randomness of PB. However it’s nice not to worry about it
unkempt karma
@strange python ty
craggy helm
well...priority dmg using aoe to feed cp
strange python
Yeah thats still not AoE
spring iron
Cp?
fresh ginkgo
nothing like getting back to back pb in a aoe pull massed gripped by a dk 
spring iron
Combo points
craggy helm
Main point of M+ is the priority dmg though, and subs were already 15-20k ahead of assass in those 5+ pulls anyways
I dont think this will be nerfed
fresh ginkgo
2 days
craggy helm
Also, nothing personal looks incredibly low on current hero damage. It sounded good on paper?
fresh ginkgo
no more
spring iron
So are we taking 2 different sets for raid/m+?
strange python
We pretty much always were
strange python
3SS is a different set
craggy helm
just 1 piece
sudden brook
lel
craggy helm
Didn't really pay attention to any of the PTR changes...was really hoping for more changes tbh. There was so much hype about these new azerite traits...and how 8.1 was gonna fix it to be more fun and change playstyle
these are so...bleh
strange python
The huge damage from that trait comes from MA for the first 3 seconds @sudden brook
short wasp
Hey so which trait is on top now? 😜
sudden brook
probably, but that trait is still insane
strange python
Ye
craggy helm
@strange python how are we stacking up against sub so far?
wheat zealot
sudden brook
i give it a hotfix
wary ice
^
sudden brook
thats my guess tho
strange python
@craggy helm what do you mean
wary ice
Has echoing not been tested or something
craggy helm
ST
wary ice
How is this the first im seeing/hearing it?
strange python
Sub is way better than sin on ST
sudden brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
craggy helm
wow, interesting
sudden brook
bcuz sims werent really done for ptr that much so ppl dont have big dumb graphs to look at and freak out over
thats usually what happens
craggy helm
guess we'll see a shift in popularity in raids then to sub (obviously depending on fight)
spring iron
Still early.
strange python
I dont know a single fight from the new raids
spring iron
And servers are still down , right?
short wasp
@spring iron yes
sudden brook
yeah sub is good on st, but no fights from this raid are st really other than mother? kinda and taloc?
spring iron
Fetid
astral gyro
do patch day maintenances always take 8 hours lol
craggy helm
not mythic fetid
sudden brook
ah yes fetid
fresh ginkgo
hmm we take MA now for echo?
craggy helm
g'huun is ST
fresh ginkgo
but sub with ss tho? 
craggy helm
but if its a 1 or the other choice in those fights, ST dominates the majority of the fight length
then taloc and mother are ST as well
spring iron
Still need to see what the playstyle is when it’s live live
It’s live now, but we can’t play it
strange python
Give them time to update
craggy helm
I've always found sub to be much harder to play - but likely more entertaining if I actually got it down. Easier to nail rotation and use cooldowns properly on assass
strange python
Subs rotation will punish you more if you fuck it up
Especially if you go dark shadow
daring atlas
^ learned from experience lol.
craggy helm
yeah, I've definitely felt really shitty when I hit symbols then have to move for some mechanic and waste the whole cd
strange python
But sub is more fun imo
craggy helm
agreed
that punishing aspect means you have to concentrate more, and work harder to do the same dps
craggy helm
I know reforging costs are being reduced, but would it really be that much to ask for the traits to switch to the other spec if you respec.
just like the weapons did
PRetty annoying that if you want to switch from sub to assass or vice versa, from 1 raid boss to the next...you have to go back to the city and reforge your gear.
pulsar goblet
What do you mean like the weapons did
old quartz
theyll just give us an option to buy a mount that does it for about ~10M gold xD
craggy helm
@pulsar goblet beacuse you could have 2 different artifact weapons, so when you switched spec it just switched weapons and done.
pulsar goblet
You couldn't even play offspecs well early Legion unless you farmed insane AP or just had half your shit missing.
sudden brook
same with legendaries
pulsar goblet
I'll trade some gold to be able to play them
craggy helm
and class sets
@pulsar goblet thats a good point, forgot how cancer that AP shit was
sudden brook
most of legion u couldnt easily switch to offspec and not be at a huge disatvantage
sudden brook
i think azerite is less of a gate than weapons + legendaries
strange python
Progress-wise it is
craggy helm
difference is legendaries at least felt obtainable
you could do conent
content
and get them
even with this new patch...can still only get azerite items worth a damn to scrap from the raid
so youre time gated each week
didn't get lucky from the raid this week? oh well, wait till next week
sudden brook
would you rather the game turn into maw of souls, where you run dungeons 800 times to get gear for one raid
and not having all bis by first raid puts you so insanely behind other ppl
dry wren
Yeah, I'm glad AP is gone and I hope it never comes back
sudden brook
ie, concordance
craggy helm
I'd rather they made all of this available content actually have a hard mode that actually mattered.
dry wren
One patch and your spec is garbage and you have to farm all over again
craggy helm
Make warfronts hard, and require a raid group that's coordinated and then drop good gear
same with islands
strange python
They won't ever do that
sudden brook
yep, tos sub was better than assa in tos, but most ppl didnt have sub artifact weapons leveled, and legendaries so most ppl just stuck with assa rofl
craggy helm
Like...what reason is there to do warfronts if youre pushing the latest raid tier?
sudden brook
why does every piece of content need to be made for world first raiders
strange python
Warfronts are mostly for casual players
vestal wren
it doesent
sudden brook
its there for catchup gear, or a small bit of side content you do once a weekish
craggy helm
rofl
pretty rough when the expansion is sold on warfronts and world pvp as good features. But you end up doing neither of them if you want to be competitive in end game
sudden brook
was the expansion sold on warfronts?
craggy helm
warfronts sounded amazing
dry wren
If you play this game to raid, you only care about raids and the game was sold to you for new raids
the rest is for other players
sudden brook
^
dry wren
Play what you enjoy, it's that simple
pulsar goblet
Legendaries HARDLY felt obtainable
strange python
Warfronts were advertised as a major feature for this xpac
dry wren
To entice people who don't raid
because if you do, every expac means new interesting raids
It's the bit of content the devs always do well
cosmic pier
warfr OMEGALUL nts
craggy helm
the raids ARE great, definitely agree with taht
sudden brook
for "ppl like us" the raids are the content we look forward too
cosmic pier
uldir was fine for a first tier
sudden brook
to the ppl who are 350 ilvl and just like running around doing +5 keys, warfronts are fine
vapid moth
I've played through 2 raid openings so far. Antorus and Uldir. Uldir felt weird af
cosmic pier
little too much spread for x, but it was fine
vapid moth
Went into antorus knowing most mechanical and bosses
strange python
Both garbage
dense quest
better than stack for X
strange python
EN mythic was defeated within a day
dry wren
M Cenarius was great
sudden brook
was tos the best tier then bcuz it took forever to beat?
dense quest
I think ToS taught us that ppl suck at soaking
sudden brook
i dont think speed of being beat by the number 1 team in the world is a good indicator of how good the tier was
cosmic pier
i wouldnt say thats a great gage
dry wren
Can't judge a raid tier by what Method does
sudden brook
^^
dry wren
They aren't representative at all
strange python
Method didn't kill first EN lol
dry wren
That tier of raiders
sudden brook
i was in a mid tier guild and we took awhile to beat en and it was pretty enjoyable
dry wren
with 25+ people on the roster with multiple geared alts, running split raids
sudden brook
i just hated the xavius arena honestly lmfao
dry wren
that's not normal
cosmic pier
legion for me personally was Ant > NH > ToS = ToV > NH
strange python
And I'm saying that Uldir was garbage because it was boring as fuck
daring atlas
Uldir was extremely boring
south token
royal lantern
i honestly dont like uldir.....the fights are boring, and the raid simply fucks too hard over melee dps(before they made 180degree changes)
chilly marsh
rangeds of uldir for sure
sudden brook
looked cool
strange python
@sudden brook ToS took so long because it was insanely overtuned
chilly marsh
hate this raud
royal lantern
like, people cry over ele shaman,doesnt matter when you take a eleshaman over every single melee dps cus you cant take more then 1 warrior and 1 dh
sudden brook
well yes, and en was fairly undertuned for world first, how does that make en bad
cosmic pier
id say this raid was just average for me
strange python
En had boring fights
cosmic pier
it's the first tier, so it doesnt really bohter me to much either way
strange python
Only fight that is memorable is Cenarius
sudden brook
mythic dragons had the portals mechanic, xavius was shadow priest food with the dream mechanics, ilgynoth was cool
idk i liked it overall tbh
strange python
Nighthold was great
cosmic pier
ilgynoth was a snore, kite adds and dont do dps for 90% of the fight yikes
sudden brook
nighthold was neato
cosmic pier
was so funny farming that fight late expac where the damage reflect would nuke you
craggy briar
Anyone tried the dungeon slice statweight simulation on raidbots?
sudden brook
yes
willow pulsar
How hard they will nerf it, what do you think. 60%?
sudden brook
my guess is an overnerf bcuz of how insane it is lol
chilly marsh
its aoe not ST you know right ?
sudden brook
yeah but M+ is mostly trash is it not?
sudden brook
i assume 1 ss + 2 echoing blades
willow pulsar
But with ma ss is so bad
sudden brook
🤔
spice surge
Yeah for dungeons if you go 2x eb you want MA, how else are you gonna get that 1M aoe burst opener
willow pulsar
Unless we play with subterfuge
acoustic cave
I tested 3x ss 3x echo on ptr with 414 ilvl played stable 65k dps on 4 add
seems pretty op xd
late moat
so 3x eb gave you 65k and 3x ss was?
unkempt karma
Theres probably a dev sitting in these chats reading all this
Gona nerf us to sub lvl
strange python
3ss + 3 echo is what he meant I think
acoustic cave
yea
late moat
oh right 5th ring
acoustic cave
yep
spice surge
5:th ring not until raid though
acoustic cave
yea and 414 ilvl is really hard to get but still EB is awesome talent
didnt tested it with hidden blades talent tho
strange python
HB is still trash
willow pulsar
Hidden bait.
fleet whale
So i just checked both bloodmallet and hero-damage. Bloodmallet shows one trait of nothing personal is quite powerful, yet hero-damage shows it as almost not gaining any dps from it?
primal gazelle
echo blades with ma, open with fok fok fok, ct, throw a few ruptures and garrotes, vanish, fok fok fok, burst for 200k?
spice surge
#tc-updates @fleet whale
chilly marsh
its bugged
strange python
@primal gazelle You'll have no energy if u do fok fok fok ct
maybe rupture + garrote instead of ct
Idk tho lol
spice surge
assuming the mobs are still alive after 3x fok
primal gazelle
haha
strange python
I guess exsang with gcb will be important if u run Echo
primal gazelle
35x3 is 105 energy,CT is another 30 idr exact
with vigor you get 170 so youll be fine
chilly marsh
CT dont gives you energy back right ?
spice surge
nop
strange python
It doesnt
primal gazelle
nah
chilly marsh
dont think its worth it
modest badge
is nothing personel trait any better then poisoned wire?
primal gazelle
throw out maybe 1 garrote 1 rup
primal gazelle
pool to 170, vanish fok fok fok ct for the win
fuck sustain
im tryna burst for 1m
chilly marsh
@modest badge NP is the old MA relic so it will not be bad
primal gazelle
ill push some keys tonight and see how it goes
spice surge
@modest badge Yes, its about the same powerlevel as twist on ST
spice surge
Prob nerfed before it hits eu
willow pulsar
:(
spice surge
Or before it hits NA
strange python
Quickly do a +50 on NA
willow pulsar
3 sin rogues, 9 EB.
primal gazelle
i got 390 helm/chest echo, and 390 scent shoulders, but imam try to get a 340 piece from m0 and try triple stack lol
chilly marsh
just bring 3 rogues and tell tnak to pull whole dg
willow pulsar
Holy deepa
chilly marsh
profit
strange python
Would be interesting to see +5 pulls with 3 sin rogues with EB
lone junco
MA fok fok fok ct vanish fok fok fok ?
strange python
Energy
lone junco
overrated
strange python
would need to pool between ct and vanish
lone junco
g g g ct fok fok r. fok fok r fokfok r fokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokf
seli would overcap cps in legion due to pk/DP relics. it wasnt worth spending them in cleave.
dark crag
Thats the 8.1 raid m+ rotation
tropic shadow
I guess one could say it’s going to be foking nuts
strange python
Yeah well if you're going to run MA with EB you're def going to overcap the first 3 seconds
And you'll still be doing foks
dark crag
Stop foking with us
lone junco
tab out enough ruptures for infinite energy, with 3 scent, then 3foks.
delightful
ramps from like 10k to 15k to 45k sustained
tropic shadow
This all smells of fun and interesting gameplay, I can’t see it lasting too long
lone junco
righe
primal gazelle
maybe ill finally time a shrine over 15 today
frank shard
but thats sub only
SB is the shoulder piece I have, the other trait is the Fan of Knives trait
lone junco
i copied my entier bank for a /simc. so I could use raitbots at work.
normal =
chilly marsh
so... how can i restore my items withou the nice filters we used to have....
sudden brook
start scrollin thru the pages
chilly marsh
45 pages of items no filter great job blizzard...
lone junco
why would you scrap azerite anyway? get some worthless leather.
primal gazelle
in case they buff/change it like blizz always does
lone junco
see
dense quest
just item restore them
chilly marsh
thats why restoration always worked before blizzard fucked their own system
spice surge
inb4 you get residium for items you restore after 8.1
Even though they said you wouldnt
lone junco
meh. I keep it in the bank. No value in selling them. Now people are going to scramble for crit.
primal gazelle
ive converted to a red name
chilly marsh
you could always restore your items in a minute no reason to hoard bags full of trash
lone junco
trust no one.
lone junco
I dont. I have it in the bank for /simc access.
easily see what traits are there.
tfw a 345 fok is >> 385 archive.
grats
sudden brook
i think its pretty stupid that i thought they were moving more towards traits not being THIS much better than everything else
brave gyro
NA Bros, how's rogue in 8.1 so far? Anything we should keep in mind for tomorrow (for us on EU) ?
sudden brook
assa is looking decent
brave gyro
oh? How so? maintanance fuck ups?
primal gazelle
no thats the planned maintenance
if they fuck up... thats another 1-3 hours on top
brave gyro
There is no way echoing blades is not nerfedfrom this 😄
static sky
yeah but for this teeming fort week its gonna be fun
frozen karma
thats for aoe only right?
static sky
yeah
dark crag
It will perform well until the hotfix nerfs it by 80%
primal gazelle
let us keep it while i push for 2k IO pls
frozen karma
so worth using for zekvoz I guess^
dark crag
Same for sub tfd
brave gyro
does +15 count starting this upcoming week?
primal gazelle
dont tell your guild about it tho so they think youre a really good player when youre #1 on zek bc you murdered adss
brave gyro
I did a +15 yesterday, just in case. I remember in Legion when they said not to hoard our caches because they won't have new gear (and then they DID have new gear)
🤷
static sky
i didnt play legion, idk ab all that. i did 15's yesterday bc the affixes were non existent
unkempt karma
Well SS did get like 60% nerf right? I guess echos will be next
brave gyro
Ehh, just got my mythic Uldir cheest 😦 so i can roll more SS
static sky
they'll prob just bring it in line with everything else, itll still be good i imagine
frozen karma
they didnt add extra rings to gear yet right?
frozen karma
kk
signal summit
Some1 knows If emesarries stayed or do i need to tusen the all in today ? EU
signal summit
Ah ok ty
primal gazelle
and starts giving you 3 dailies, daily
static temple
servers up?
long marlin
primal gazelle
jan 22
signal summit
how much essence did u get from chest btw?
primal gazelle
we will find out in 5 hours
modest badge
ss got nerfed?
strange python
?
modest badge
idk someone said it got nerfed
frank shard
yeah forever ago
modest badge
like again
strange python
SS got nerfed in like
october
or some shit
or even before
Everything you need to know is in #tc-updates regarding any azerite fixes/nerfs/buffs
modest badge
i cant read tho
open hazel
30k dps for like 10 seconds
lone junco
Yeah. At 355 ilvl.
zealous lily
bring back old SS
cobalt gyro
old SS was 
zealous lily
i'm looking forward to new raid not looking forward to having to replace all my gear
tropic shadow
SS should have been the max level passive
abstract atlas
Any clue if the nothing personal trait is gonna be worth it ib pvp ?
zealous lily
if it is good blizzard will nerf it
people don't like dying to burst in pvp they like it taking a thousand years to kill people
visual quartz
why did troll haste buff get nerfed 3% but other dmg increase racials not?
normal spear
because blizzard's spin wheel told them to do so?)
slim olive
Haste too stronk
zealous lily
troll racial is/was very powerful on a number of classes in pve
visual quartz
oh wow, misread, 5% nerf
zealous lily
tbh stuff like blood fury and berserking and the new dark iron racial should not even be in the game
"you do more damage!" is exactly the kind of thing that only causes balance issues and aren't interesting to play around
you add it to a macro and that is the extent to which it impacts your decisions
visual quartz
nah not really, in raids I'll sometimes time it differently for different dmg windows
royal lantern
they should de-activate racials for all kind of seriours content imo
so stuff like arena/raids/dungeons etc.....
strange python
hah
grim wolf
is there an CD on the echoing blades trait? from reading that it makes me think you only get one use of that trait per fight but i could be way off
fickle grail
Can it proc off of itself?
tropic shadow
I can’t confirm but that’d be nuts
candid mica
no cd and can't proc from itself
sturdy python
It always works and no Pay it cant
hasty wing
sim again with hidden blades 
spice surge
Hidden blades is garbage
fickle grail
6 targets patchwork
modest badge
dat fake
lilac lily
oh, 6 targets
spice surge
Because 90% of the trait damage comes from the extra waves, not fok
tropic shadow
This trait will be slashed after a week, it’s too interesting and fun
wary ice
do the waves trigger poison?
hasty wing
ah would have been funny for the memes
candid mica
yeah it is getting nerfed 100%
fickle grail
Just think kof the FoK sound effect spam
wary ice
u have a bad definition of fun
robust lake
yeah i was about to say we got different definitions of fun
ruby idol
@candid mica just waking up, what do i run, what do i wear?
candid mica
i hope you have echoing blades traits ready to go
cobalt gyro
echoing is gonna be dumb
ruby idol
Ya i have 2
candid mica
i have 2 aswell
ruby idol
Is MA the play
ruby idol
Throw a lil tb action in there for the lols
candid mica
idk if that's the play
ruby idol
XD
cobalt gyro
if you have 2 and aren't able to use a third i was thinking SS would be good
candid mica
exs= more energy=more fok
sudden brook
ss sucks without subterfuge, and you have to go master assassin with echoing blades
ruby idol
Ss with MA? Hmmmm
candid mica
yeah ss sucks w/o subt
wary ice
Do the Extra waves apply deadly poison?
candid mica
i don't think so
grim wolf
i only have 2 fok traits rip. might just do 2fok 1ss for m+ and see how that plays out
wary ice
I dont think u open with garrote w/ eb
elfin valley
So the FoK thing is broken? what about Nothing Personal
wary ice
p sure its just MA + FOK -> ruptuire/CT
ruby idol
Stub are you on playing around yet?
candid mica
servers are still down
cobalt gyro
NP isn't simming that well for me, at least atm
ruby idol
Oh rip
I wonder how 3x fok into ct is gonna feel on energy
With no early garrotes out to help regen
candid mica
probably gonna
elfin valley
i assume with this new trait itll kick SS out of M+
candid mica
3x fok>rup>exs/ven
candid mica
to get some energy going
ruby idol
Ya thats my thought as well my dude
desert vault
So its just EBlade and stack crit basically? I hope I have three EB traits ... can't remember 😃
Prolly trashed some 370s with it, go figure
desert vault
I think I can only do like 30-35 crit maybe, but still its so broken
elfin valley
you would think Nothing Personal would be a really good raid pickup
cobalt gyro
it's simming less than my 2x SS for 1t 6m
elfin valley
yeah i mean its extremely similar to the shit we had on the artifact weaps
candid mica
guess not lol
sturdy python
It's not really that much energy
elfin valley
even if it isnt simming well rn i bet it will when the raid comes out
polar cape
Something something artifact had good stuff that should have been kept XD
sudden brook
40 energy over 20 is not that good
candid mica
yeah having 6 traits will probably change things a bit
instead of the 2 free traits we have rn
royal lantern
yeha, having SS all the time ❤
candid mica
in raid, atleast
elfin valley
free dmg for an ability you are already using and free energy tacked onto it despite the amount
cant be THAT bad
sturdy python
It's not free
sudden brook
yeah but other options do more is the point
desert vault
Damn it, I don't have a EB chest ... well poop
sudden brook
its not free lol
sturdy python
It takes a trait
sudden brook
it costs an azerite spot
royal lantern
well, we had the same thing in legion, and it basicly did nothing
elfin valley
ywah but what im saying is having all of that together seems pretty decent
sturdy python
I think it sims similar to DD?
royal lantern
and you lose a trait slot, wich could be any other trait that gives you way more dps
sudden brook
yes
honest iris
we get 6 traits now?
vestal stump
When raid drops
royal lantern
2x the ´´outer´´ring when siege of another horde city is out
honest iris
oh okay thats pretty nice
cobalt gyro
the dream of running EB + DD for m+
visual quartz
I was like wha O.o
desert vault
Yeah, I'll prolly do 2x EB and SS/Archive since I don't have 3x EB sadly
cobalt gyro
i mean, on tyrannical it won't be that awful
elfin valley
problem is SS would suck since u prbably arent running subterfuge with EB u would want MA
candid mica
that's the play
sudden brook
^
desert vault
Yeah, but will be fun while it lasts
lone hamlet
eb will be nerfed for sure
royal lantern
if it is not a hotfix for EU tommorow it will come next reset
wary ice
IDK man its blizzard
sudden brook
elfin valley
even if it IS going to be nerfed doesnt mean u cant have fun with it now
sudden brook
ur smoking gas if u think this isnt going to be nerfed
wary ice
very probably we get this week with eB bullshit
cobalt gyro
they'll also cap the number of combo points FoK can give at 3 just for good measure
ruby idol
I have fok shoulders. Chest is the slot im missing :( @candid mica
royal lantern
dude, there is a difference bettwen a strong trait and a trait that gives you 1M burst dps in aoe
sudden brook
^^^^
royal lantern
its not like ss too strong, it is broken right now
cobalt gyro
was the best trait for a little while too
visual quartz
this week M+ affixes are perfect for it too, AOE hard
royal lantern
it is NOT too strong, it is simply broken, they will fix it in 1-2days
near willow
just want to try triple stack EB in one high key m+ for the lulz
teeming+fort week too lul
cobalt gyro
you can get away with some huge ass pulls if you ran 2x rogue probably
if they both have 3x eb
simple rivet
elfin valley
what u got for ST tho xD
simple rivet
nothing to see here
visual quartz
I dunno, an afflic warlock 😛
sudden brook
its way better than prenerf ss LOL
royal lantern
pre-nerf ss was not even close too that lol
cobalt gyro
whats the chance it comes with a FoK nerf on top of it
elfin valley
the pact that even 1 of those beats out 3 of everything else is halarious
royal lantern
SS is still only for 3 targets except you throw out a cd for another 3
sudden brook
why would they nerf fok?
fok is fine its just the trait
they didnt nerf pistol shot when they nerfed deadshot
visual quartz
Deaddshot was so fun
royal lantern
EB is simply spamming FoK and nuke shit harder then america did too japan
candid mica
im running some double rogue tonight
cobalt gyro
50k PS crits was hilarious
candid mica
we'll see how it goes
wary ice
^
hopeing i can get 1 run in before its fixed
hoping i can get the week in before its fixed
simple rivet
get a quick 30 in
wary ice
hello 2k :^)
visual quartz
leveling 2 outlaw rogues together, world pvp was hilarious
royal lantern
people are busy crying about shamans and paladins in the ptr
nobody cares about rogues
plain cairn
3x EB for zek'voz tonight or na ?
royal lantern
except when they get ganked by one
candid mica
well 2
wary ice
tbh its prob just an over sight
candid mica
1 archive for crit
plain cairn
no archive for a crit buff ?
candid mica
obviously
visual quartz
they removed Sub for zul and added it to Ass
wary ice
the fact that each trait stacks for the same amount as the first means that more knives are sent
per trait
which is against how most traits work
elfin valley
lol @visual quartz
wary ice
the hot fix will probably be to normalize that over it all
wary ice
I think i can do at least 1 fok
I think i have chest helm fok and shoulder Scent
idr off hand
candid mica
i might buy a 370 fok piece from the vendor
lone junco
3rd fok would be 345. but prob fine as well.
candid mica
for my 3rd
cobalt gyro
i'm quite lucky that i have 2x 390 and 1 370 fok
serene hinge
how does the Echoing Blades work?
sudden brook
it does a lot of damge
serene hinge
you fok once and if it crits it splits, but subsequent casts dont split?
lone junco
EP/MA/Vig/Exang/ ?
candid mica
yup
serene hinge
just confused by the wording in "the first 5 crits"
lone junco
id rather HB than CT
serene hinge
it's per cast? or per pull?
candid mica
ct
cobalt gyro
it's max of 5 crits per cast
lone junco
i guess.
serene hinge
ahhh okay
candid mica
nah ct is more dmg
serene hinge
thanks
lone junco
if you have the Crit for it, we have plenty of cps to spend.
candid mica
and give you something to do when you have ruptures out
serene hinge
is it even worth dumping cp for aoe then? or just more efficient to fok lol
candid mica
actually fok is probably more dmg than ct per cast
cobalt gyro
yes
candid mica
isnt it
lone junco
there were times in the past where overcapping cps *( fokfokfokfokfokfokfok) is more dmg than a finisher
serene hinge
i gues if you run scent
candid mica
so just sit at 5 cp and press fok
cobalt gyro
no you'd want to spend for EB uptime and energy
serene hinge
ahh okay
candid mica
yeah true
wary ice
yeah the nerf will probably be not letting additional stacks add additional casts and only the fok damage will stack
sudden brook
i mean they will most likely just nerf the damage rofl its a lot easier to understand
wary ice
No it isnt?
balmy comet
Is na server up
sudden brook
nop
velvet kernel
what bullfango said makes sense
wary ice
its dealing such high numbers because each trait stack sends additional waves
velvet kernel
thats how they do it with most things
wary ice
which is not how most traits work
velvet kernel
they only let the damage stack
cobalt gyro
i mean they'd probably just note it as "fixed an issue causing Echoing blades to have an unintended interaction"
velvet kernel
@wary ice yep
cobalt gyro
or some shit like that
wary ice
I expect Echoing blades to be a MA alternative to SS stacking tbh
velvet kernel
nah
elfin valley
but @wary ice even then 1 trait is simming higher than all the others so that cant JUST be trait stacking
royal lantern
it will be a good combo too run 1xss 2xEB or something like that for m+ i gues
wary ice
Its simming that high because you're taking MA
cobalt gyro
i mean sure but in an actual use case it's not competing with RA
wary ice
Burst window from vanish is pretty on par with assassination
sturdy python
Nah ss will be bad since you won't run subt
wary ice
plus you have to talent into the trait
i dont see anything wrong with the first stack being that high tbh
sturdy python
?
lone junco
I can probably get 35crit if i try
sudden brook
OMEGALUL
wary ice
maybe not that high
sturdy python
It's one stack more than all 3 of others
elfin valley
problem is if 1 stack is that high even with nerfing of the interaction the others will blow them out of the water
thats extremely high
lone junco
and completely dog shit in st
sturdy python
The damage is too high, pretty simple
lone junco
so grats there.
elfin valley
a little dmg tuning is necessary along with the interaction
cobalt gyro
well
lone junco
10k dps st.
cobalt gyro
to be fair, the others it's competing with aren't really aoe traits, or at least, not super consistent ones
lone junco
45k cleave
round osprey
Archive with double EB or would you throw in a scent? Seems like archive unless we need enough ruptures to make it useful
lone junco
in M+ archive gets beat by 2 ruptures.
wary ice
Yeah but u need the mobs to last long enough for the ruptures to be worth their GCD
round osprey
scent is an agi buff
lone junco
tab out 8 ruptures and fok for days
sturdy python
Well yes, if we are talking about eb it's fair to assume you were asking about m+
round osprey
well is it better to mass rupture or just keep EP up with CT once enough ruptures are sustained to smooth energy?
lone junco
@marble hemlock
balmy comet
So when is na gonna be up lol need to try this for the lols
cobalt gyro
LMAO
fresh ginkgo
vital haven
candid mica
im happy you kept those noobe
sudden brook
all of them
elfin valley
Nothing personnel doesnt change gameplay at all
candid mica
freehold and ml
balmy comet
^
cobalt gyro
i was thinking TD
balmy comet
Biggest pulls
wary ice
NP gives TB some extra value 🤷
round osprey
so.... why not 3 rogues?
wary ice
u need a range to tank missles on ML last boss
lone junco
i really hope HB first hit scales the fokking waves
cobalt gyro
it's fort you could probably just eat them this week tbh
lone junco
it probably doesnt.
candid mica
100% it doesn't
candid mica
how you going to get cp to get those ruptures
wary ice
whats HB?
dusky tinsel
hidden blades
wary ice
Oh 😦
dusky tinsel
100 talent
wary ice
yeah forgot about it
balmy comet
So the extra waves dont give combo points right
dusky tinsel
thats ok, its a forgettable talent
wicked owl
so how about ST ? what seems to be the to go traits right now for pure ST
lone junco
so 10 mobs. 5 crits. gets the FoK + 5 waves.
wary ice
each global = 6 globals :^)
winged forge
Anyone know how good the new alchemist stone is gonna be for us? Bloodmallet doesn’t have it yet
cobalt gyro
yea
dusky tinsel
what's acceptable crit % if we're feely crafting?
wary ice
thats why you need only 2 rogues
lone junco
35
dusky tinsel
think im at like 22%
wary ice
grab a lock for the ST damage :^)
lone junco
seli runs M+ at like 35c 3h 45m i think.
but at least the SS exang GCB is there for some st juice.
Ill be running crit shit, and just memeing the trash for days.
round osprey
mmm... I'm still wondering, why not just run 3 rogues. It's fort. ST damage will be fine
dusky tinsel
this is definitely the week to meme trash, thats for sure
desert vault
Well I guess mythic Zul is back on with rogue stacks 😃
lone junco
meh. just gib the craigs
balmy comet
For some reason at first I read that as 3hours 45 minutes lmao
lone junco
its not boss dmg
round osprey
lol the crawgs will just die
cobalt gyro
my guild already decided to extend
round osprey
then rip your damage
lone junco
our fury already takes care of them. maybe ill kill one or 2
strange python
Has echoing blades been hard nurfed yet and if so by how much?
fluid drift
mythic zul crawgs respawn
dusky tinsel
patch hasnt gone live yet, im sure we'll see a hotfix before EU gets its hands on it
lone junco
fun memes inc.
balmy comet
I wanna try atleast one dungeon with it lol
desert vault
I'm actually more excited to see how sin rogues work on G'huun honestly, could be interesting for mythic
lone junco
solo trash master inc.
desert vault
stack five rogues on mythic g'huun and 4-6 locks, insta-win
lone junco
I keed.
balmy comet
Afk on boss kappa
dusky tinsel
so on 15+ keys we'd still spend on CT and shit right? doesn't lose fok value
balmy comet
Someone @ me when servers are up please and thank you
leaden garden
Hey guys so im tripping on acid and thought id play some rogue. Is asa ez?
short wasp
@leaden garden Come on. You never preface your comment with "im on drugs" - You just let your comment speak for itself. Its funnier that way
lone junco
CT will prob slide to uptime only
dusky tinsel
right, you wouldn't spend CT unless you're refreshing
lone junco
but I will probably rather tab another rupture for infinte juice than a ct.
cobalt gyro
signal salmon
@wary ice watch the video
round osprey
probably
cobalt gyro
probably
leaden garden
My bad Genesis
round osprey
just get enough ruptures
lone junco
really really depends of the fok proc is in the 12k range or the 4k range.
wary ice
@signal salmon wot?
short wasp
@leaden garden asa is eazy, try it.
lone junco
if the fok proc is too high, we might just overcap
dusky tinsel
just need big crit for the memes
primal gazelle
It’s it in “abuse it while you can before it gets nerfed” range
signal salmon
+@wary ice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2XjmTEJT-A
lone junco
I will enjoy the vanish FOKFOKFOK
vapid moth
And the Shadowmeld Stealth FOKFOKFOK
dusky tinsel
gonna have the energy for 3 fok after vanish? I'd imagine you might pool a bit before that idk
frank shard
Is Echoing blades as broken as these sims are making it seem?
dusky tinsel
^
lone junco
its not live yet. so idk
wary ice
why are you ating me about this
signal salmon
no poison application, no cp
signal salmon
u told this
wary ice
I asked, i didnt say they did
short wasp
@signal salmon haha great
dusky tinsel
yeah he hits 1mil early
shrewd bane
??
desert vault
I'd be more into if we could sustain 1m, but 500k is just meh 😄
lone junco
looks like a giga pull build. the st will be trash.
cobalt gyro
I mean you probably could sustain that much
primal gazelle
perfect for this week
lone junco
esp if you drop the haste
primal gazelle
Teeming
shrewd bane
LUL the video
vestal wren
to not underestimate the new aoe trait, it adds sth new to the spec, burst aoe
desert vault
heh, yeah 2% haste and 50% crit here I come!
lone junco
will be funny if you have to run subterfuge for the E
dusky tinsel
im ready to watch 20+ keys be timed more frequently with multiple sin rogues now
lone junco
g g g r fok fok r fok fok r fok fokf okf okfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokf
the Energy ramp will be the limit
cobalt gyro
once you get going though it's just gonna be 🥜
wary ice
probably worth maintaining a CT?
candid mica
we'll see
honest iris
is hidden blades still a talent
vestal wren
assuming aoe rotation did not include a lot of fok before
dusky tinsel
yeah but I doubt you'll take it for the EB build
lone junco
HB may just be there so you dont waste GCD on CT.
oh yeah, its a loss.
gl with crit stack though
just need to bump your stat weight to like 7.
and dig all the shit out of your bank.
at least crit gems are cheap
frank shard
this guy in my disc is saying that this trait is def not as broken as sims make it seem
lone junco
ok
frank shard
what do i show him to convince him otherwise
dusky tinsel
the video
primal gazelle
link him the video
shrewd bane
patch live in US ?
primal gazelle
ez
lone junco
keep bugs to you damn self
dusky tinsel
show him the video of 1mil dps
shrewd bane
lone junco
will be nerfed by 6p
wary ice
inb4 bans on this
dusky tinsel
should keep it on the DL, at least for the next 24 hours
lone junco
too late.
primal gazelle
delete the video asap!!
fluid drift
its not 1mil dps lol, its like 1 mill damage total in those 10 seconds
sudden brook
its still absurd
dusky tinsel
he procks 1 mil at one point
cobalt gyro
he spikes to 1 mil dps
dusky tinsel
sustains 500k
lone junco
it is what it is.
dusky tinsel
although its short lived
fluid drift
1 hit over half a second is 500k dps but thats not sustained
fluid drift
its about 100k sustained on 10 targets
lone junco
and once you have 4 ruptures out. it will be full speed
cobalt gyro
yea totally balanced
dusky tinsel
get those ruptures out, then vanish big 🦆 time
warm beacon
enjoy for 1 week
primal gazelle
Use vendetta for the energy gain and not dps
dusky tinsel
1 week is generous
lone junco
exang
dusky tinsel
24 hours maybe
fluid drift
so i played around with erodralia's top gear sim from earlier. here's 10 targets 60 seconds (0 archives) with triple echoing blades
warm beacon
looks like devs don't test it
primal gazelle
LOL
fluid drift
primal gazelle
imma do a 17 key as soon as the patch is live
cobalt gyro
lmao jesus
fluid drift
fok = 180k per cast, CT is 156k per cast
wary ice
short lived sustained is my new favorite type of damage
Its like burst but sounds more broken
lone junco
means. g fok r. fok r fok r fok r fokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokf
cobalt gyro
actually hilarious
fluid drift
the best part is - the APL doesnt know to prioritize FOK with echoing blades with MA
so it should sim even higher than that
primal gazelle
Open FOK FOK FOK with MA
lone junco
means CT is gone. HB
primal gazelle
Yolo
fluid drift
0:00.000 dot H garrote Fluffy_Pillow 170.0/170: 100% energy | 0.0/5: 0% combo_points stealth, resounding_protection, battle_potion_of_agility
0:01.004 direct G fan_of_knives Fluffy_Pillow 138.2/170: 81% energy | 1.0/5: 20% combo_points master_assassin, entropic_embrace, resounding_protection, battle_potion_of_agility
0:02.006 dot I crimson_tempest Fluffy_Pillow 123.4/170: 73% energy | 5.0/5: 100% combo_points master_assassin, entropic_embrace, resounding_protection, battle_potion_of_agility
opens with garrote -_____-
primal gazelle
2 more hours leggo
cobalt gyro
does that swap out all enchants/gems to crit as well
lone junco
i will now
dusky tinsel
@lone junco even on 1 target you use fok with 3xeb?
wary ice
is that with the APL prioritizing Fok during MA?
dusky tinsel
oh thats dungeon slicer
cobalt gyro
all i can say is i'm happy this came out this week
because if it was last week
we'd just die
lone junco
@dusky tinsel I doubt.
fluid drift
tricks every pull, and vanish every other big pull, no biggie
lone junco
@wary ice no. just standard apl using Fok for cleave build.
dusky tinsel
was non-fortified though, adds woulda just died instantly
lone junco
so it will be higher.
wary ice
yeesh
lone junco
annnd.
dusky tinsel
even on 15+ keys
wary ice
slice is like 3-5, 4-6, boss, repeat or something right?
lone junco
Boss. 1-3 4-6 blend.
wary ice
i was close
lone junco
but it doesnt have vanish or vendeta for the trash.
anyway. if CT is a loss. Ill be running HB.
Tabbing ruptures.
dusky tinsel
sameeee
wary ice
Outside of EB memery
lone junco
why would there be an outside?
wary ice
Am I right to hold 2nd Exsang on trash for the next pull to stack it in the opener with boon + Sub+SS garrotes?
wary ice
`assuming the trash pack is near finished after 45 secs
lone junco