hey guys can someone help me? I have no idea how to increase my dps.. and I don't trust in sim . im relatively new to rogue played at bc last time. + I have no idea what trinket combination is best for single target
#assassination
spice surge
You don't go into stealth when you meld
civic palm
Trust the SIM don't be a flat-earther.
spice surge
You only get one garrote that is empowered by ss
But its not empowered by subterfuge
tidal ermine
im doing something wrong in combat or its gear?
civic palm
Have you read the guide and checked the pins for updates?
civic palm
Start there to make sure you are not doing anything tremendously incorrect.
Questions afterwards ๐
tidal ermine
i don't think im doing something horrible wrong I mean logs are ok I guess but I want to improve more
but yes I will do that
thank u
peak whale
how do you guys do your stealth opener when there are only 2 targets? using exanguinate
copper pine
also your azerittraits are not really good for raiding
civic palm
@peak whale Since you can't use CDs on two targets, pick one you want to kill more that will live for the durations of your cooldowns.
tidal ermine
@peak whale u checked me on armory? bc I have my m+ gear on
peak whale
what would your rotation be like
spice surge
You can check gear in logs
peak whale
garrote garrote rupture or garrote rupture garrote rupture
tidal ermine
garrote rupture garrote multilate envenom till I have to refresh
civic palm
@tidal ermine Correct, read the guide.
@peak whale For a 2-target opener keep Garrote and Rupture on both.
Opener -
Generate CP as you need, using MUT (only 2 targets) primarily, make sure DP is on both targets.
G[1] - G[1] - G[2] - R[1] - CDs[1] - R[2]
tidal ermine
hey reading is done thing is im doing it exactly like in guide. just one thing im not doing simulation ๐
so u guys rly trust in simulation?
copper pine
yes
copper pine
raidbots
civic palm
@tidal ermine
I looked at a Taloc opener and it was not as shown in guide.
If you have a most recent parse that you would like looked at then please provide it.
proud gust
Hey guys I'm about to start mythid fetid tonight. What CDs should I save for the mutated things?
tidal ermine
hey yes I know I have struggle in doing it right always but I know I should do it like this
thank u for your time mizletoe
civic palm
and the only reason to not trust the SIM would be if you are trying to SIM for a situation that it does not handle well.
copper pine
yes but for the most fights you can trust SIM
peak whale
Why do you want to use Garrote on the same target twice though? to extend the duration and then exang?
civic palm
Honestly for most fights, if you are progressing, things are not Single Target.
@peak whale Yeah for max duration before Exsanguinate.
tidal ermine
im not trusting in sim bc I did much less dmg till I just stopped to SIM and just tried to copy stat weight of rogues with great logs
civic palm
uhhuh
quaint flare
same
peak whale
so after your press exanguinate you want to mutilate so you can rupture the other target?
civic palm
Yeah normal CP generation and spending.
peak whale
feel like im missing some important globals idk
copper pine
taloc, mother, fetid, zekvoz, mythrax and also ghuun is for rogues in mytic "most of the time" ST fights ^^ and on Vectis you dont have so much adds so on Uldir you can mostly trust sim for ST
civic palm
Where are you missing globals?
You build on the primary target, apply and maintain bleeds and DP.
peak whale
alright thanks
empty elbow
Miz on zekvoz are you garroting each caster add
civic palm
This will depend on your raid DPS. If the rDMG is high enough you will be better off tunneling boss.
If the boss is stacked near adds apply RUP/DP to add for its duration for the regen.
If you are on the Voidweavers for the DMG you want to keep G/R on boss while tunneling adds with TB/EX if they last the duration of those CDs.
You just have to adapt where you are spending CDs to make sure you are applying as much DPS to important targets as you can while not wasting time on them as we're primary DoT damage and near the majority of the duration of those bleeds to make casting them worth it.
empty elbow
On vectis should I follow the same mentality
civic palm
on Vectis stick to either using CDs on the boss, or the adds, but not mixing them as your timers will not line up if you do.
If you are Lusting the beginning you can skip the first add as it should die faster than the rest due to the rDPS being higher then.
tropic rover
Does the new dungeon slice sim account for restealths for SS?
modest badge
where do people go to now when looking for guilds to join?
frozen karma
So on Mythrax I pretty much get the first ruin like 80% of the time, do I wanna delay vendetta for it or just do it anyway and lose like 5 sec
spice surge
Don't shadowstep the boss and youll get it less often
civic palm
That's hilarious.
spice surge
It prefers people north in the room (ie where the boss spawns)
civic palm
Yeah.
frozen karma
gotcha, I'll try to keep it in mind
spice surge
But yes, vendetta anyway
frozen karma
so no shadowstep and stay south for a few sec
spice surge
You can cloak and make the debuff explode
civic palm
Yeah don't pander to his mess, you have plenty of time to run out and Cloak it.
spice surge
So you lose only like 2-3 seconds
frozen karma
yeah but my healers wont be happy lol
spice surge
Run out before ofc
civic palm
Can run to side of room and not polar opposite of boss and cut the DMG decently.
tidal ermine
guys if u have to choose : 1. use 2 times your cds or use 1 times cds with bl .. what is better
frozen karma
I guess if fight lasts 1:59 vs 2:20 ish well the latter will be better
depends on exact timings
spice surge
If you're looking for overall damage and it's not a burst phase for the bl, definitely twice
Bl doesnt double your damage
frozen karma
Got another question for Mythrax, when transitioning to P2 I've got about 10 sec where I can vendetta the boss, should I do that or just use it on the add when it shows up? I kinda want to put out more boss dmg since add dies pretty fast anyway
spice surge
If the add dies regardless, I'd say hold until add spawn and then use on boss
And vanish garrote add at the same time
keen hound
mythic zek. CT or PB?
signal grotto
cant think, whats the timing called when you basically refresh dot under X time?
theres a specific word for it that i remember seein before in here, just cant think of it
keen hound
pandemic
signal grotto
thanks
tidal ermine
Guys when u refresh garrote and rupture do you refresh it on like 0.1 second before it rans out or is there any magic number
spice surge
If its an exsanged or subterfuged you let it run out
Otherwise you refresh in the pandemic window
If you're unsure of what that is, check the pins
tidal ermine
thank u
keen hound
Any thoughts for mythic zek? We are pretty casual and will be hitting up progression on zek tonight. Trying to decide Crimson Tempest or Poison Bomb.
serene rain
if ur raid need aoe dmg CT
keen hound
From my experience the difference is going to be pretty small overall.
spice surge
I guess you garrote the hexer and crusher at pull
But other than that i guess you just hit boss
civic palm
Yeah if you are running SS G hexer crusher boss and have at the boss.
timber notch
hey sorry could not find anything on this but for M+ tyrannical. do sin rogues run crimson temp and exsanguinate or do u keep toxic and poison bomb?
i might have missed it but would appreciate the help. trying to be a better sin rogue
supple hearth
steel bolt
that, and pretty much always play exsang in m+ since you play SS traits
untold current
Is there a way i can add pandemic flash or somethign to my garrote and rupture WAs?
empty ferry
is there a limit as to how much haste you should have?
civic palm
@untold current Add a CONDITION to the Rupture/Garrote WA timer that changes color/etc. when there is <= the remaining durations of those DoTs.
timber notch
thanks @supple hearth and @steel bolt
untold current
Thanks. The time to refresh depends on if it was a 4 or 5cp though right?
So would that be 2 conditions?
rose rover
it depends on ur current cp
untold current
RIght, so doesnt that mean there are 2 possible refresh windows depending on how many cp's i used on last refresh>
ornate forum
I used the custom functions from this to create my own versions of it that work for my UI, for garrote and rupture
but it works pretty well as-is, if a single icon with border/glow/etc works in your setup
civic palm
5.4 for Garrote, 7.2 for Rupture, since pandemic allows 30% of the maximum duration of the present DoT to be added to the new DoT.
unique junco
guys could u expain me when to use exanguinate? new rogue here...
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
quick ice
Probably better explained.
jovial fractal
Sin pros... if ive pooled enough to envenom again while the last elaborate planning is still ticking do i do it? Or wait for it to drop?
nimble tartan
Never pool just yolo finisher brother
signal salmon
Pool to link envi+ep
lapis spade
I don't see Dread Gladiator's Emblem (the one that gives you hp) in blood mallet, is because its useless?
jovial fractal
cheers
terse hinge
@lapis spade pretty much useless, yeah
meager basalt
dagger in the back or twist the knife (envenom)
strange python
anyone know what this means?
how many ilvls is it worth losing to have 2 ss traits for m_
m+
civic palm
@meager basalt TtK
cunning fiber
Guys I got a 390chest with dd, other choice is 375 with ss. And my only available head is a 375ss. Is it worth dumbing the low ss piece for this tyrannical week?
My shoulders have ss
Archive **
I already simmed and as expected 375ss outperforms the 390dd in aoe, and the opposite happens in St situation. What I'm wondering about is, should I dumb some aoe dps for ST? Only cause it's tyrannical week.
winter moss
what level are the keystones you are playing in
quartz dune
2 weeks in a row. I don't know wheter RNG hates me, or loves me.
cunning fiber
@winter moss 12 to 14 mostly
cunning fiber
Ye I.m still trying to find a sob trait and get rid of the archive head I have
zealous dew
vast forum
you can only get a 395 from the pvp chest tbh
patent topaz
I got boots 3 weeks in a row on rogue, and last week I got raals bib on both chars
cunning blaze
should i use double heed my call for m+? Or 1 heed my call and 1 overwhelming power
civic palm
1 and 1, or 2 OP if you have it
cunning blaze
alright thx
strange python
sob trait?
cunning blaze
Another question for M+. Should i use scent or Archive? Archive looks to be a bit better to me for bosses (kr/sethrallis), and scent for trash heavy dungeons?
strange python
Hey Guys ๐ ill got some huge issues with my Rogue ๐ฆ
Ill wear 3x SS for M+... but 2 Pieces 340 iLvL... You would switch it ?
quick ice
really depends what your alternatives are
strange python
385 Double Dose Shoulders and Head 370 with Achieve of Titans and Sharpended Blades 385
warm blade
For mainly m+, Would it be worth saving the relics with traits that will get replaced by the new fan of knives trait?
seems like it could be good but not really sure
quick ice
it quite literally can't hurt ๐
warm blade
gotta get that explosm tho hahaha
quick ice
get it after the rollout ๐
sullen tusk
Goodmorning people, on my fairly new rogue i roll Fathoms with Dread glad medallon (socket 365) And from the chest i got Mydas talisman (passive agi, on use turn your hands into gold, 385) is mydas worth replacing any of my old ones?
Sims say dont play Mydas both ST and dungeon slice so i think i just skip it
winter moss
when sim say dont equip it, do not equip it. simple as that
sullen tusk
@winter moss Yeah true just wanted to double check
sullen tusk
ty fam
sullen tusk
Im more Kreygasm over the trinks
strange python
check this garbage shit
u sim 4k more dps... ๐ฆ
im so done with my Azerite piece
Pieces*
Ahh rip
olive night
just go get world boss head Dipz
ez game
olive night
just got it, replaced 345 SS shoulders, 15 ilvl upgrade ๐
olive night
the head piece is 355 SS ๐
olive night
Imo, SS shoulders + SS chest and Archive headpiece
strange python
Id use 3x SS
And worldboss trinket
Lion's Guile
Why are you not using that?
Opet ? u checked my Top Gear ? have u some tipps for me?
strange python
Galecallers sim higher
I find Construct Overcharger pretty trash
But yea
one use
Are we talking raid or m+ btw
m+
Get rid of the Construct Overcharger
Id use Harlan's + Lions Guile
and x3 SS
olive night
I'd say Galecallers over Lion's Guile, for the exsang.
strange python
For m+?
olive night
yes
olive night
weird, is pretty good.
strange python
If you can stand still
olive night
you mostly just need to have it up when you actually use Exsang
lethal mauve
how that sim up
strange python
so u say turn off the low azerite pieces?
the 340?
@olive night Yea I get that, but still I like trinkets that have more use on trash aswell
I run with a pretty mastery heavy gearset for m+
olive night
haste = faster poison/bleed
Trash is multidotted, haste = profit?
you can use it on trash as well
strange python
btw ill hate Galecallers... the tanks still move the Adds and the trinket is wasted
so i pref lions too
strange python
so u say turn off the low azerite pieces?
the 340?
Turn off?
switch it
for others
Id use 3x ss
with garbage traits but 385
340 is fine
yeah but u got the GS
dreamy fiber
Which garbage traits
strange python
Double Dose or Sharpened Blades
tripple SS 390 received and still 370 wpns ๐ฆ
Rip
dreamy fiber
triple 390ss.....
strange python
dreamy fiber
@strange python I use a 390 DD over 340 SS but thats purely from advice given by ashine so i dno
strange python
Haha what the fuck is that gear @strange python
dreamy fiber
Thats ridic
dreamy fiber
And here is me with a 370ss piece only
He did a different sim dipz
Dungeon and u were patchwerk
strange python
Ahh missed that
ST 1x archive 1x blightborn 1x DD 18.7k sim dps
gimme that dagger brah
and blightborn sims 200 dps stronger than my SS peace in ST
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.
dreamy fiber
You dont play SSx2 exsang for ST?
strange python
it sims 500~ dps less
dreamy fiber
weird
strange python
still shoulders ๐
345
Ill think its very bad that u can obtain SS only on Weekly Chest 385
or Fetid Mythic
strange python
Got my 2 385 pieces from the 2 first chests.. Used up all my luck at the start
Only had trash since
The Difference between an 345 or 355 Azerite Piece with SS or an 385 Piece is so fcking huge
dreamy fiber
You know you are simming for ST right?
strange python
Yep
dreamy fiber
So you won't be using 3x SS in Uldir
strange python
wide delta
never played with sharpened blades before
how good is it and whats the optimal use for it?
use it as soon as i hit 30 stacks?
strange python
Why cant I get DungeonSlice to work. Never had any problem be4:O
Would u Say Galecallers Boon > Lions Guide ? Both 385
dreamy fiber
Yes if used correctly
strange python
with every exsanguite?
desert pelican
How is new fok trait on ptr? Got another 85 piece with it, at least i can chose between 2ss/fok, 2 fok/ss ;D
rare jackal
it looks promising
unreal sundial
Is there an obvious set of break point values for Sin with regards to ST/Cleave fights?
Seems really inconsistent in the gearing/value capping that I've seen on gear of rogues above 387
quick ice
no break points, really
unreal sundial
Ah, I guess I need to base it off of stat weights then.
Haste has got to the point where it's the lowest stat weight, of the 3 main secondaries
for me atleast ^
strange python
how much haste% is that?
strange python
Ahh strange, well its all over the place with secondarys
I got 31% haste in uldir and haste still sims higher then crit on st
unreal sundial
I think I had:
2.6 Mastery
2.4 Crit
2.2 Haste on my last sim
But that wasn't with the gear I have on for Ghuun, so might be different.
That's weird, I'll check tonight if I'm BSing about 20%
What Vers % are you on?
quick ice
could be stat, trinket, or talent related
or even depends on which enchants you're running tbh
strange python
I totally for got I got a new ring that switched the weights around-.-
My secondarys are so even thjo
cedar matrix
Yo new rogue here, can anyone explain to me why some rogues let their dots fall off? When is actually the best time to refresh garrote and rupture optimally?
lone junco
Drop after exang or SS garrotes. Anything else is a timing error.
Unless you vanish refresh garrote.
Ugh. Simple answer got too long.
cunning blaze
should i run with more haste this week for tyrannical keys instead of full crit mastery?
vapid moth
@strange python does all of your gear really have a gem socket
twilit quiver
Does Exsang also snapshot versatility? or all stats in general ?
quick ice
No just haste
twilit quiver
Alright, thanks!
strange python
@vapid moth yea boi
sullen tusk
Hello again, so i know there are 500 guides etc streamlined for assa. But what is to aim for build wise for raid vs m+ ? trinket wise/statwise/azerite etc? I feel there are alot of different opinions on this matter.
quick fog
So trinkets I swap between Lion's Guile/Doom's Wake and Galecaller's Boon depending on if there's a bunch of movement/kiting.
buoyant coyote
will we have the haste buff in 8.1 raid?
or the stat buff?
playing with out my 750 extra haste feels really slow
sullen tusk
I dont know tbh maybe some other buff
lone junco
@vapid moth I have like 7-8 sockets.
quick fog
Stats are haste crit for raid, crit master for M+
lone junco
then do what you want.
sullen tusk
@quick fog I dont have that many choices but for m+ this week i have chosen to focus boss dmg instead of trash so i run 1 ss 2 dd ( both dd are 40 ilvls higher then my other shit)
buoyant coyote
sullen tusk
I aim atm aiming to have 2 ss 1 sob for m+ fortified
and maybe 2 ss 1 archive for tyranical
quick fog
DD should perform better for tyranical.
lone junco
dont do that
lone junco
There is no case where you should drop SS for DD in M+
radiant storm
Archive does stack right? cause it doesnt say in the tooltip
solid nova
Random question, as i see it a lot
quick fog
You should always have a SS
solid nova
Would people want a bot command to put out the current weeks m+ affixes?
Like !affixes or something
lone junco
sure.
quick fog
Wouldn't hurt.
lone junco
if it is correct and zero effort to update
sullen tusk
i dident say to drop ss....
solid nova
Yeah would require, Tuesday updating for NA, but could always have a little disclaimer on the bottom.
smoky fiber
so m+ sims for assassin in terms of what gear to take doesn't seem very accurate huh? tells me to stack haste like im in raid but looking at most top sin rogues they go like 10-12% haste>25% crit>mastery does that sound about right to ya'll?
wary ice
TBH I think thats just something ppl shouldnt be looking to spec-specific discords unl;ess its like "how do we deal with affix y"
so unless its like a braindead thing to implement i say save the effort
lone junco
@smoky fiber sims for aoe are correct. Haste is a dead stat once your Energy caps with tabbed ruptures
solid nova
@wary ice I meant more a simple command that tells people what this weeks affixes are
lone junco
the reason haste is good, is not dot tick damage, it is dot tick Energy return. But once you cap e from 4+ ruptures, you sure as shit, wish you had more mastery.
smoky fiber
That seems counter intuitive, since the m+ sims on raidbots basically say stack haste but it's actually not what you want for m+ lol
so not sure how that's accurate when it says in m+ sims to stack haste but thats clearly not right
solid nova
^
lone junco
in cleave we want crit for cp gen. we want Mastery for bleed damage, we want Haste for E>
lone junco
thats why GC is really powerful. it is a punch of Haste without a lot of mastery loss.
wary ice
and it snapshots exsanguinate
lone junco
but you dont get to swap. so pick shit and go. you can go for boss. or cleave or a blend
wary ice
Is there an estimate on how much damage you actually lose by holding exsang for every galecallers?
lone junco
the only reason the snapshot is good, is when you have to leave the circle.
it is plenty.
strange python
Currently sitting on around 12% haste and 30% crit/mastery. GCB helps for the bossfights alot since you dont stack haste in m+
lone junco
remember that the exang feeds you energy in ST and GC feeds you haste/energy. By delaying exang you lose E. aka dmg loss.
and exang turns a 23s garrote into 12 sec. regardless of haste. so over time you lose out on portions of additional 12 sec of garrote.
wary ice
I just have to find a comfortable position for my trinket cd :/
lone junco
I use Shift R and Shift T
wary ice
I've just macro'd to vendetta for so long its super unorganic to do them
ur a genius ๐ฎ
lone junco
trinket 1 and trinket 2.
wary ice
I'll have to move CT But whatever
lone junco
/use 12 /use 13 i think.
wary ice
i think its 13/14 isnt it?
lone junco
w/e
wary ice
that or my macros are hella fucked
lone junco
I probably made my macro in 2008
wary ice
Oof
as an aside is there a place where you can check the gear for high-lvl m+ers?
I've just been armory-ing them through raiderio
but i imagine there are more accurate methods
lone junco
io is fine. just know that what they do at +20 is highly irrelevant to +12-15s.
aka. dont build for giga pulls, if your team has tiny penus. and only pulls 3-5 at a time.
wary ice
sweet thanks
dense quest
you have to pray harder
royal lantern
0gem's, feelsrngman
spice surge
not having gems on your rings/bracers/back/offhand
Unless you have like 395 its prob worth with a 370 with socket in those slots
royal lantern
immagine acually getting gear at all 
my crappy 1month old alt is the same ilvl now
primal gazelle
what makes bracers/back/offhand so special that it requires a socket?
rings i understand
spice surge
Not much extra stats from ilvl
royal lantern
well, rings have no mainstat
primal gazelle
ic
spice surge
For example, 385 bracers has 7 more secondaries and 24 more agi than 370 bracers
And a socket is more valueable than that
wide pawn
Anyone I can message some questions about Vectis?
cosmic pier
just ask em here
wide pawn
Alright, is exang better for the increased damage on the add?
cosmic pier
nah, wont be alive long enough for full value
just 3+ cp rupture, garrote and spam envenom, and tb if its up
wary ice
we can sacrifice ilvls on offhand weapon?
cosmic pier
for a socket?
wary ice
For stats in general; i guess
wide pawn
Yea, my damage in add wasnโt terrible but we are having trouble with add going down.
wide pawn
Thank you @cosmic pier
cosmic pier
i would hazard a guess some of you raid members arent swapping
you should have every dps swapping
that add needs to die
wide pawn
Yea, we already know that lol. Some melee are saying they canโt reach. But the only people that have to stack are the ones that are passing vector.
cosmic pier
gotta make sure people are standing tight to the markers, otherwise adds will spawn too far out
especially for the ranged markers
and yes, melee should be moving as long as vector doesnt need to be passed
wide pawn
Yep!
cosmic pier
just make sure you watch the timer and be ready to pass it off to your group
wide pawn
We are using a wa for it. Makes it so easy.
cosmic pier
yeah we did too
primal gazelle
@spice surge but the stam tho ๐
wide pawn
Again thank you @cosmic pier
woven crypt
Has anyone tried leveling as sin? I know itโs supposed to be slower but I wanted to try it some just to learn the spec, but if itโs giga slow I didnโt wanna hump myself too much. Thoughts?
winter moss
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.
woven crypt
@little crow raidbots has a beta m+ sim@now
little crow
ah cheers
winter moss
it not like sin is giga slow, just the other specs have more mobility
royal lantern
sin mobility os ok-ish
its not monk/dh overloaded, but its more then enough for everything
woven crypt
Ive been leveling as outlaw so far, havenโt tried the other yet but wanted to try sin first
Okay, Iโll probably check it out some today then. Thanks!
royal lantern
i WOULD lvl as outlaw
woven crypt
Iโm 114, so have all my abilities at least lol
royal lantern
yeha, ok, 114 is ok, really low lvl's are painfull as sin/sub
proven frigate
the engineering goggles in 8.1 really gonna be as good as peeps saying? as in bis traits
hollow stone
@woven crypt i lvl'd as sin, took about the same time as leveling my other chars. Its definitely viable
royal lantern
isnt the ilvl way too low for that?
spice surge
8.1 goggles will be on-par with mythic/hc
royal lantern
mythic hc siege...? or uldir?
spice surge
Mostly just good for aoe though
copper pine
is it worth to change to nightelf for extra vanish with garrot ?
hollow stone
No
dense quest
play horde and dont worry about it
spice surge
You can find racial sims on herodamage.com
copper pine
yes there is gnom on #1 but i dont know why ๐
hollow stone
The diff of races is so minimal that it doesnt really matter
Unless youre pushing world firsts, i guess
royal lantern
ยดยดif you need too ask wich race is the best for your class, it doesnt matter because you dont play on the lvl where it mattersยดยด 1st time in my life somone in tradechat said something usefull
hollow stone
And since you're alliance, i doubt youre pushing world firsts lol
wheat zealot
rough phoenix
Oh so im not the only panda rogue in the world?๐
royal lantern
there are dozens of us
willow pulsar
They are hiddin'. You got it, right
royal lantern
DOZENS
and no, it set itself on alliance cus there are 0 max lvl panda rogues on silvermoon lul
gentle rapids
How reliable is the m+ sim on raidbots? it recommends me to take haste mastery rings over crit mastery at same ilvl
gentle rapids
ah okay, i thought it was just trash of varying kill times, thanks:)
low lodge
Hey guys, do any of you have a WA that shows if your Garrote/Rupture has been empowered by Subterfurge or Exsang?
normal spear
check Luxthos' rogue rotation WAs, he has both
solid nova
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
solid nova
A few of those (Maybe all?) have it as well
low lodge
Ah, thanks guys!
shy axle
would you save vanish/vendetta ohn fetid until 50% when the killtime is around 2 mins?
low lodge
What I do is use Vendetta on pull and then save Vanish for 50%
marsh bloom
SS is probably pretty good for Mythrax right?
spice surge
Yes its very good
Keep vendetta and vanish for when the add spawns, if you need damage on the add vendetta it otherwise just go on boss
normal spear
especially for padding on smallies
spice surge
Add being the weapon, not intermission ones
marsh bloom
exsg ok for the fight?
hollow stone
Yea. You def do not want to waste ss garrs on the mind flaying dudes
You'll get like 20% of the duration off before they die
Esp if doingg rock strat, which you should be doing
sick eagle
What's better for fetid Toxic blade or Exang?
royal lantern
w8, there are people that dont do it with the rocks?
marsh bloom
so do use ss or don't use it?
spice surge
Toxic for small eggs, exsang for parsing and big egg @sick eagle
Or rather, toxic works for both
But exsang doesnt really work on the small ones
marsh bloom
I could use exsg on the big add
sick eagle
ok ty
hollow stone
Like eleem said, ss is still great. Just make sure you utilize it on the living weapon (xalzaix) instead of during transition
For m mythrax
hollow stone
Depends on your gear. Both are good
spice surge
^
hollow stone
I personally use xsang if running ss
marsh bloom
ok
allot better ty โค
and what cds do I save when using SS/Exsg on Mythrax
should I save Vendetta?
rare jackal
i use vendetta on the boss during pull and just dot the add when it spawns, switching to it once vendetta runs out
but it depends on how much damage you guys deal on the add
dull compass
would you consider perhaps sub over sin for myth ghuun ? 2x Shadowstep is pretty sweet for orbs, + all the spawns of ghuun. Somehow everybody keeps playing sin tho according to wclogs parses
dense quest
having 2 sstep doesnt matter
unless you have to solo
else play w/e you are good at
1 step is good enough
since you are never soloing it either way
dull compass
fair enough, thank you
vestal stump
P3 damage is what really matters for ghuun tbh. So whatever spec allows you to pump the most damage there.
dull compass
thanks^2
wary quiver
how much haste are you all sat at?
marsh bloom
Do you wanna save exsg for the first add?
for the first weapon?
on mythrax
and vendetta
spice surge
If you need to
uncut burrow
I'm trying to figure out which pieces I need to farm. My sims are way behind what I'd expect them to be (or maybe my expectations are what need adjusting).
normal spear
i would get rid of vers/haste ring
spice surge
I mean just get higher ilvl on things
uncut burrow
I tried, but sims prefer that over my 370 crit/haste
normal spear
^
uncut burrow
gotcha. That makes sense, then.
spice surge
try to get sockets if ilvl isnt an option (ie not doing mythic)
uncut burrow
This is roughly my cap for the content my guild runs (N/H)
So nothing horrendous, then, just need some RNG for sockets
normal spear
if your guild does only heroic, then your "cap" would be somewhere around 376-380
so there's still something you can improve
uncut burrow
Oh okay. Ty ๐
crystal vault
why does subterfuge simms lil bit higher than MA when i dont use SS :x
raven mica
Cuz MA and sub are still relatively close talents
lone junco
I'm 369 ilvl at 17.0k. Have you tried getting 8 sockets?
uncut burrow
lol Maybe I should make ritual sacrifice to RNGesus
crystal vault
@raven mica so do i still use garrote 2 times then? or whats the benefit without SS ?
raven mica
P sure in opener and vanish that you only use 1 garrote
I havent had to play without SS in a while so I'm not the most useful there
outer ruin
I see a few guides say "spec doesn't matter" for leveling. Does anyone have suggestions for a spec I should run with? I'm finding the lack of any aoe with outlaw until lvl 63 seems rough
spice surge
fairly sure all rogue speccs lack aoe up until that point
vestal stump
^
eager linden
^
spice surge
It doesnt really matter what you play as when you level, play what you like the most
slate jacinth
Anyone have tips on how to sim for G'huun? Just 1 boss patchwerk?
eager linden
I mean, only the last 20% really matters, so yeah ST
spice surge
Yeah ST
outer ruin
Ok thank you for the responses about leveling
lone junco
we didnt use the 2nd set of orbs.
strange python
Seeing a lot of rogues around my Ilvl simming around 19k any ideas what's going on with my gear? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bkb6FRbB4atTKbkfSxc7vL
raven mica
the fact that you're still on a 370 weapon hurts
strange python
Ya most definitely.
raven mica
also no double doses
kindred chasm
bad traits, low rings, low weps
raven mica
well the MOTHER ring aint that bad
Also a higher ilevel galecaller's helps
My BM hunter has a fucking 380+socket
vestal stump
Tfw 340 galecaller is the best you've gotten since launch.... ๐
raven mica
tradewinds also isnt exactly a bad trait
Again, just not double dose or SS or wahtever
lone junco
could probably drop 5-10 ilvl from the hat/chest to gain SS or DD and jump 500 dps
@raven mica do you like grilled cheese sandwiches, or was that some other muffin.
raven mica
another muffin
kindred chasm
thoughts on new FoK Trait + Hidden Blades in m+? ๐ค
royal lantern
i want the 2nd outer ring allready
strange python
This gives me something to work on. Thanks everyone!
royal lantern
give me 1xss all the time for the smoth opening
lone junco
@royal lantern and there are very few fights where you dont get a double garrote at least once.
royal lantern
?
lone junco
(mother)
royal lantern
why ping me? didnt ask anything?
lone junco
just commenting on ss value
in that it is better than sim due to the vanish garrote alingment at times. or the double garrote at open.
royal lantern
i just said i want the 2nd trait ring, because that means that we will probably always have atleast 1xSS all the time, wich makes the opener/vanish combo much smother
royal lantern
implying i have the azerite pieces too chose wich trait i take 
i play with swirling sands and sharpened blades cus its my only 385 pieces ._.
static cosmos
can rogue step to monk statue?
royal lantern
yes
raven mica
its not incredibly obvious but yes
You need to like: jump off the ramp near the same height as the statue to get the step off
lone junco
@light jacinth new rogue seems to have caught up. ๐
sacred flint
my dungeon slice https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ueACtwhRd6Pjyqz6HpHQMZ dono if good
lone junco
probably good. the value is in comparing items tbh. look at crit or gems enchants
if the gain is minimal dont bother.
sacred flint
any time i swap down in haste it just feels shittier when playing to me
sacred flint
runnin one with CT now
wide pawn
Whats everyone running for stats wise. Currently I am basically even with Crit haste mastery.
royal lantern
well, simming, but in bfa ilvl upgrades are dps upgrades most of the time
echo night
Im running pure crit mastery with CT
sacred flint
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4TiDWcuPBcSzYKFUb8s6Br CT like 500ish lower
echo night
Got very low haste, but again, dont know if haste is better in 10-12 keys
Compared to 17-20 keys
royal lantern
well, ct is only good when stuff is not dead in 10seconds
sacred flint
yea
royal lantern
sooo...in tyranical weeks, you should probably go PB when you have a dh in your group, cus he does his totaly balanced aoe burst and shit is dead
sacred flint
dono how dungeon slice really calc
if its taking something like fortified into effect
echo night
Dungeon slice is saying haste is miles better than Agi for me :S
Even with CT
So im really confused :S cause simming 6 targets 40 sec males haste the worst stat
Makes*
solid nova
It includes boss fights
cold tulip
when playing 2xSS in raid do i still go for TB on some bosses?
wide pawn
I am at 21% haste now itโs saying Crit is a higher value.
echo night
But still, bosses are only 20% of the dungeon
Rest is trash
So, haste or crit/mastery?
sacred flint
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eAQRsw1y2MzHzPnqCq8hyn thats my stat weights with dungslice
sick eagle
so my Array switches from 1 stat to another in combat based on weapon enchant proc and loaded dice,is that a problem?
sacred flint
ive had the same prob, got annoyed with trying to balance it based off procs and just let it do whatever
polar forge
2x archive 1x SS or 2x archive 1x DD for vectis?
logs r all over the place every one runs SS with exsang or TB
ehhh i sim'd DD no SS
but i prob simmed wrong since an ad spawns
its actually pathetic i have to even ask. been playing sub all xpack but we couldnt get the re kill last night so i went sin and did terrible need to go over everything and optimize. getting ready for next week when sub dies
cosmic wren
I want to complain about how bad the daggers look from the next raid, can someone point me to the 500 page forum post about it which I am SURE exists?
vapid moth
@cosmic wren I usually write about that much I'm the tmog channel lmao
unique junco
hi guys could u please expain me when and how to use exsanguinate?
and how to combine it with rapture + crimson tempest?
royal lantern
get your bleeds on a high timer->exsang
strange python
@unique junco Guide in the pins
unique junco
read them, dont understand
strange python
Video guide
dense quest
tell us the parts you dont understand
strange python
final hull
Hello , i have a question . Double Dose trait increase damage that deals poison to target or it is some damage which i deal to target instantly when i poison him
strange python
When Mutilate applies Lethal Poison with both daggers, it poisons the target for an additional X damage
spice surge
Its a seperate damage source
strange python
I just gave you the tooltip
arctic night
Is it possible to Shadowstep to Monk totem?
spice surge
Yes
arctic night
Cus our rogue apparently cant
strange python
Its buggy
spice surge
On G'huun its really buggy
arctic night
I guess a rogue isnt reliable to jump up to side for running orbs
dense quest
I saw a video on it I think they need to sprint and jump off the ramp to be high enough to step to the statue
dense quest
i mean they would need to do it reliably
or just get the rogue to carry the orb
and throw it to X
inner pecan
just run from the start
spice surge
Its fairly easy to do it reliably, assuming you're on the left side
inner pecan
if you have to do 2nd run
spice surge
But yeah, just running works fine
molten moon
how many ruptures do you spread before switching to envenom/CT spam? every mob? or just like 3-4?
unique junco
exanguinate only wors for rapture or also to garrote and crimson ?
woven crypt
w/ subterfuge should i just be using garrote for those 3 secs after stealth?
austere scarab
in multi, yes
spice surge
@unique junco Works for all of your bleeds
Although its not very relevant to exsang CT
austere scarab
like if it's a 4 pack, garrote x3 rup garrote iirc
spice surge
Because CT is only multitarget, thus having it run out faster on one target before all the others isnt very significant
austere scarab
if it's st, garrote rup garrote (vendetta if boss) tb envenom
unique junco
ok so i should rapture with +5 combopoints and then again stack 5 combo + crimson and THEN exan?
spice surge
You never crimson on ST
unique junco
i mean aoe now
spice surge
Exsang your garrotes and rupture
But on aoe you dont need a full 32 sec rupture, a 24 will do just fine
Same with garrote
unique junco
ok so lets say there is a pack of 5 adds
i do garrote x3, rapture
on 1 of them
and then exanguinate
then aoe to build combo points and put ratpure on everything
yes?
spice surge
yes if you dont have ct
if you have you CT instead of rupture after garrote, then build 5cp, rupture>exsang
then start rupturing things and keeping ct up
But it also depends on how long they live
unique junco
ok
gosh
rogue is hard
on my main dh onlu use eyebeam+ blade dance and job done ;d
wary ice
My advice would be to not think about it as a series of shit
as much as a list of priorities
spice surge
^
wary ice
ie: instead of garrote->garrote->garrote->CT->fok->fok-> rupture->vendetta->exsang or whatever
its just "spread empowered garrotes, maintain CT, rupture as many targets for as long as relevent
cooldowns on priority mob
ruby idol
Open with ggg ct. Then from there your finisheres are r r ct r r ct r r ct
Repeat til things dead
Simplifies it
wary ice
still not always true though
ruby idol
Obviously but this guys clearly not looking for the 100% min mac intricacies of every size pull and situation
wary ice
like there is no set opener that is correct for every type of mob density that you pull
ruby idol
Max*
lone junco
@ruby idol can you try a Tom Selleck avi? better mustache and more Dadly.
verbal nimbus
I like to open with mutilate mutilate mutilate mutilate mutilate vanish mutilate exsang.
best opener to date imo~
lone junco
joshey is a fibber
elfin quartz
working on mythic ghuun and was told i can shadowstep up to the orb running platform to a mw jade statue but couldnt get it to work yesterday. any tips from those that have CE or are also on the fight? is it just my monks placement?
vapid moth
@verbal nimbus I said that a few times. People thought I was serious for weeks. I'm glad to see another follower of the mutilate opener
dense quest
@elfin quartz
I think richard should just pin that lol everyone asking the same thing
elfin quartz
@dense quest perfect tyhank you
verbal nimbus
thats one hell of a good vidya
hexed sail
i'm trying to figure out how to gem and enchant my gear, given that some of the pieces or used either for sub/assa in both uldir and m+
i see speed a lot of rogues fullhaste right now ? i'm curious about that cause my char sims haste a little bunch higher in solo target patchwerk
but haste is outrageously crushed by crit and mastery in multi target
spice surge
Just go crit prob, you're gonna lose some ST damage but its better for sub/aoe
hexed sail
yea i found crit is the most versatile stats overall also
severe nymph
I am wondering what kind of dps addons show the best.
Also any other helpful addons for assassination rogues or rogues in general.
fair blaze
Details and weak aura 2 are all you need ๐
wary ice
^ i also use elvui but am thinking of dropping it cause ive been seeing so many other peoples crisp ass uis
worn cloak
pliant apex
Is there a channel to just ask questions
pliant apex
I'm planning to switch to rogue in 8.1 and was wondering what to play never played rogue before
Wish to push mythic
What do you guys suggest, maybe the easiest spec ?
strange python
go outlaw if u want to push 2 buttons
lavish citrus
is nothing personal going to be any good?
pliant apex
If I play it right ? Also is learning outlaw easy ?
I've played mage non stop 9 years this is a major decision
lavish citrus
learning outlaw is about learning reroll logic
pliant apex
What does that mean
wicked sluice
Sin is dots and less dps dropoff when movement is required
OL is cleave centered with pretyt decent single target
Sub is micromanaging and high burst window
lavish citrus
basically when you press roll the bones and when you press dispatch
strange python
Different RTB buffs suit different traits
lavish citrus
as a baseline, you keep the crit buff and the attack speed buff or any combination of two or five but different trait combinations will change that
strange python
Yeah
lavish citrus
the biggest one is that x amount of snake eyes changes what you do
dense quest
I say you play all three see what you like then stick to it and learn it
its like asking if you should play frost/fire/arcane
strange python
I mean he's asking whats the easiest
lavish citrus
sin definitely
strange python
and outlaw is def the easiest spec (imo)
lavish citrus
imo
wicked sluice
I play all three and I think sin is the easiest
dense quest
yeh but easy is so subjective
lavish citrus
i dont play sub but out of outlaw and sin sin is much easier imo
pliant apex
TBH outlaw seems hard with all that guys mentioned
wicked sluice
that's why they're asking our subjective opinion
dense quest
everything sounds hard if you never touched it
lavish citrus
nah outlaw is mostly easy
strange python
And outlaw has a great cleave, you don't need to spread dots like sin
pliant apex
True , may I ask and sorry if this isnt specific to rogue , what is the easiest dps class right now
strange python
BM hunter
dense quest
DH is pretty easy
pliant apex
I've failed 9 trials in a row on my mage
Just need to feel good for once
Bm Hunter ? I've heard that too , easy class ?
proven frigate
does the new azerite currency rewarded from weekly chest cap at +10 like ilvl does or is it off top you do like a +16-18
strange python
It probably caps at 10
Just like the max ilvl u can get from weekly
10 is cap
@pliant apex Just a heads-up that playing an easy class is just boring
dense quest
that depends on you
lavish citrus
outlaw prolly gonna be sick with the season 2 affix in dungeons
strange python
No, no class requires a lot of practice to get the basics
dense quest
what mage spec do you play
pliant apex
Just want to do well for once in a trial
Frost hate rop so didn't switch to fire or arc
Couldn't pass trial as frost
Insulted, called trash by raid leaders
dense quest
were you just not doing enough dps?
pliant apex
Feel so bad and shamed
dense quest
or are you like failing mechanics
strange python
Get better gear
dense quest
yeh
strange python
Learn rotation
pliant apex
And I'm done after 9 years with mage, I've 21000 achievement points just on the mage
dense quest
frost isnt hard either
solid nova
Your achievement points arent going to equate to ability of play.
pliant apex
It wasn't gear
strange python
Try fire / arc?
solid nova
If you want to talk about specific rogue specs, you can use the relative channels here. If you want to talk about other classes and their rotations, which you'd want to play, you can take it to off topic.
pliant apex
So outlaw rogue much eaiser eh?
solid nova
Outlaw and Sin are very simple, yes
pliant apex
Ok Richard I'll get outa here
solid nova
Thats also true, Best of luck.
pliant apex
Insults everywhere I go
strange python
Can you link me your character?
dense quest
I dont think anyone is insulting you dude you gotta stop taking offence to everything
vapid moth
What makes gnomes especially good for M+
Nelf are also lower than I thought they'd be. But the shadowmeld is like a second vanish on ads
dense quest
that's a yikes
solid nova
Of course you can, in the correct channel.
strange python
w/e
solid nova
It's a spec channel for rogues. Not BM hunter or Frost mage discussions. The concept is very simple.
grizzled trail
is there any way to simulate talents for a boss from 30% below only?
trying to work out if blindside is better for ghuun mythic phase 3
strange python
no1 uses that talent
grizzled trail
yes i know but i want to max damage on phase 3 only
hollow junco
1.) yes you can sim execute patchwerk
2.) you should probably not take blindside for g'huun
south lagoon
@grizzled trail
hollow junco
i very much doubt blindside will come out ahead. i would guess it'll be several hundred to a thousand dps behind EP
hollow junco
and not fun or interesting to use
not rewarding*
no sense of "neat, that button felt better than hitting mutilate"
main pivot
Got a rather dumb question: I've talented Subterfuge. When opening on a boss, do I just spam Garrot to build combo points? Or just do one Garrot and then wait until Mutilate becomes available?
grizzled trail
well it would be nice to play blindside if it was better
hollow junco
the opener is specifically addressed in the guide
grizzled trail
gives u an extra proc to keep an eye for
hollow junco
there is an exact answer
rare jackal
@dense quest im also progressing on that fight
tbh i dont find that trick all that useful, if you run with someone you should have no trouble going the normal way
dense quest
I dont use it I was linking it because someone asked how to
rare jackal
oh
dense quest
besides for me I throw the orb not dunking it so its useless for me
lone junco
@Art#6234 assassin is pretty simple. and very predictable these days. good luck
normal plank
does anybody have any tips on why i see other rogues top 3 dmg and i cant get anywhere near them is basically all gear depedenten?
lone junco
depends on a ton of things. gear. fight style. talents. skill. raid comp
main pivot
@normal plank I'm sure players would say, "Give us a link to a warcraftlogs.com" log
normal plank
ahh i see
light jacinth
Still at 7 :/
lone junco
yeah. array takes more time i guess
anyway. was good to see you at the top of the mythic stack I was checking out
like rank 8 on your alt.ish
light jacinth
Eh my alt logs are p bin
civic palm
o _o
ebon summit
Any good idea how I should stat weight for m+ dungeon, try to land around 10% haste and push crit high?
normal plank
oh alright mastery is doodoo correct?
vapid moth
@main pivot what do you mean wait until you can use mutilate? You can use any skill while stealthier. Just put it on the stealth bar
grizzled yarrow
^
paper heron
ive noticed some poeple using crimson tempest in m+, how does it work into the rotation? does it replace envenom at a certain number of targets? and is choosing between lvl 100 talents more of a gear thing or a dungeon thing
lone junco
g g g ct. fok fok rupture exang fok fok rupture (tab out 4 ruptures) then refresh ct
ish
vapid moth
Yeah basically
3 targets you keep the dot up. 6+ is when I replace envenom entirely (may or may not be right)
lone junco
priority is tabbing ruptures. eventually Energy is capped, so you can recast CT early if there are a lot of mobs. if there are not a lot of mobs you will env.
do not CT in single target
vapid moth
Nope. That's where the debate comes from
paper heron
i see
lone junco
CT value on the trash packs is >> the pb on boss for most instances.
paper heron
you feel that way in tyrannical too?
lone junco
some tyrannical low trash zones, people like pb is better
like kings rest.
but PB is small anyway, so its not often going to make the difference
vapid moth
The 60k pb damage ain't worth it imo
paper heron
hmm i see
strange python
dagger illuminatis say still no
civic thorn
You need pb to push specific bosses whereas your total from ct is going to be irrelevant
karmic ingot
Not really.
civic thorn
Name a single pb dungeon on tyr that would make your argument valid
sturdy python
Faster trash means faster key
civic thorn
Not passing mana/dps on boss means depleted key
strange python
Ffs i always thought i must be the unluckiest person in the world because i didnt get a single azerite piece to drop in m+. I just learned that they dont drop at all haha
sturdy python
If CT dps does enough to make up for the energy and CP used it will be faster than pb
That's assuming you might fail a boss
Not that likely in bfa
civic thorn
KR tyr on 20 you pick pb purely cause you need dps to pass certain amount of axes past your evasion/deterrance/iceblock/battleresses
And 1st boss manacheck
sturdy python
Yes yes we know, KR is one of the ones you go pb on
civic thorn
Under you push 1st if you're not running disc pb will be relevant
Basically every under tyr boss shits on manabar
sturdy python
And you think pb will make a difference?
civic thorn
And you don't?
civic thorn
You're getting extra damage where you'd have none
sturdy python
And CT you get more
civic thorn
Every pack in under on tyr dies in 2 gcds
Your crimson is only good for double skele x2
Where you're shrouding to worm killing it and pulling 2, then 2 down the way from 3rd
sturdy python
I think you're giving pb way too much credit
The damage is small and assumes bosses dont move
civic thorn
Cause they don't?
sturdy python
All four of those bosses get moved
civic thorn
The only stage where movement would cause an issue is moving 3rd to shock group of shrooms
sturdy python
All four bosses are moved constantly, not always due to tank
If they move when pb procs then...
civic thorn
unfortsch
sturdy python
Point is, if ct speeds your run up more than pb the it's not irrelevant damage
civic thorn
what does it matter
sturdy python
Lol suuuure
molten moon
how does GCB haste+ affect exang? does it speed up how fast the dots drain? or amplify damage?
sturdy python
Exsang snapshots the haste causing it to tick fastwr
molten moon
so with GCB your gar/rup fall off faster/hit harder. how does it affect a regular gar/rup? like does it amplify damage done on all your ruptures you spread on a pack in M+?
sturdy python
Haste in general causes dots to tick faster
I don't know how it's formulated exactly but essentially how it works
molten moon
interesting, so im assuming in M+, its still best to gar, gar, gar, rup, GCB, exang, fov spam into ruptures
spice surge
It hastens the dots whenever it is up
sturdy python
Yes unless you're running ct then your first rupure you can replace with it
ruby idol
Late to the party on this underrot discussion. Ive played both pb and ct in there a lot and it p much comes down to if you pull double skeles or not imo
If you do, you run ct, if not you run pb
civic thorn
There's no reason not to, but if you dont pass first you go another key
Entire map comes down to that
Rest is super hard to fuck up
ruby idol
I mean youre not pushing ur on tyranical week anyway
civic thorn
As I was saying if you have disc you just bang
ruby idol
So it comes down to where youre making up the most time in the dungeon
If pb is the difference between you killing first boss and not, you dont have the group dmg you need for the key regardless
civic thorn
Its different for different setups, not necessarily
I was looking at some group stream the other day and ppl sat on 18-19k as owl dh and their disc just pumped
Meanwhile we do 24k lowest with rdru and kill it in the same time
That was on forti though so there's no reason to spec dru
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
sturdy python
Not sure how that's relevant to pb vs ct
civic thorn
same tbh