U don't need to
#assassination
lost horizon
That'd be some killing spree level teleporting, would be pretty badass no lie
spare nebula
lost horizon
The answer is 2
leaden seal
You're better off just mutilating, not fok, unless you're stacking on the rocks.
If you have 3+ close enough, then you FoK
lost horizon
The one you rupture, and the one you rupture after shadowstepping
round wadi
So u guys don't put rupture on what u can
lost horizon
Sure you do, but there's no magical number to how many ruptures you can put out
Just play the game and make your decisions during the pull
leaden seal
Is he asking for mythic or heroic
lost horizon
Heroic
leaden seal
lel. run around an mutilate > rupture.
Save yoru vanish for add phase
try to get 4 garrotes out.
gg top charts
leaden seal
stat weights coming up mastery / crit are bae, but when i start gemming and enchanting for them, i'm dropping 500 dps avg
from vers
forgot to change it from zul sim rip
leaden seal
i swap in mastery gems and drop 500 dps avg on target dummy. stat weights say it should go up, rotation style would say it should go up. And yet it goes down -_-
leaden seal
I'm running 4 mins of ST dmg on a target dummy with vers gems, then switching in mastery and doing the same.
lost horizon
Unless you're hitting the dummy 10000 times for set duration and avging it (with no mistakes)
leaden seal
and i got the same results on a heroic taloc i dropped into test
lost horizon
Stat weights are a snapshot using a set delta
I forget what they changed the BFA default values to
But do a topgear sim with different enchants/gems if you wanna see what works best
leaden seal
i ran top gear with all haste, then all mastery, and all vers. and vers came out top, but i never see assa stack vers lol
actual fight said the same
did a heroic taloc
quasi pewter
I mean if you do top gear and it tells you to go vers thats fine
marsh bloom
I would love to get a lucky ass 385 SS helm
winter moss
welp
stark mirage
How do you kill orbs? Put garrote and rupture up and envenom them or is it a better way?
I mean dots on mobs first, then start fok and env on orbs
stark mirage
I guess mutilate is enough now that they have less hp.
heavy trail
bonusrolling every week on mother 😄
Wdps > Mastery > Agi ~= Vers ~= Haste ~= Crit > WOHdps
This is what frustrates me
heavy trail
progressing ghuun?
heavy trail
1396 + 10 stacks array, + ~500 from construct overcharger 395 and galecaller 380, makes 104% on bloodlustwindow xD
winter moss
then u either really low on mastery or you reached some sort of soft cap
although there is none
heavy trail
1396 haste, 905 crit, 593 mastery, 206 vers
winter moss
unbuffed?
heavy trail
ye, without array, without proccs etc
lethal heart
@gusty kestrel 😡
winter moss
either wcl showing with array stacks but im 1784 haste
heavy trail
With reoriginationarray on 2146 haste 😄
winter moss
yeah figured, but ~20%haste shouldnt be some sort of cap
heavy trail
that what wcl shows
winter moss
dont know if i should go 2x dd 1x archive for raiding
lone junco
Big
lethal heart
i like shrouded
winter moss
same
lethal heart
but then i got lucky and got 385 shrouded from weekly
idk what i'd be running on shoulders
probably 370 dd or shrouded
depends what comes from emmisary
heavy trail
im currently 1x archive, 1x dd 1x ss, sims higher then 1x archive 2x ss even with exsang
winter moss
bet tisumi will be the first dude in the 20k club
lethal heart
actually
im pretty sure i can upgrade my sim
sec
its so scuffed aswell
because
heavy trail
wearing dd shoulders would push your sim :D
But my wcl ilvl logs get broken by the unsocketed 395 rings and the 395 overcharger xD
heavy trail
not yours, sebeks gets pushed by exchanging 1 ss with dd
lethal heart
maybe if i had 385 dd
heavy trail
Whole day zul progress on monday 🤔 guess i gotta practice opener, musclememory fucks tornadoopener up every time xD
xD nowadays logcheesing isnt the only thing, simcheesing has arrived 😉
lament dove
I sim 2K dps less in same ilevel, fml
tropic pike
What exactly is a parse comprised of?
I.e difference between a green and orange parse
Is it just dps and adhering to mechanics?
lone junco
and gear.
solid nova
And padding
safe matrix
So you have to have good uptime, gear, and strategy
lone junco
not all ilvl are created equal
like a vanish double garrote on vectis and add, compared to a vanish garrote on vectis.
flip archive to crit. and i get up to 41%
nb
26% crit normally
lyric geyser
Is there anyway to compare my DPS to others that are similarly geared to me?
shy axle
warcraftlogs %ilvl
lone junco
@lyric geyser there is a direct compare tool in your logs. it looks at everyone your ilvl, in kills of the same time duration, with similar raid count.
"bleed tick rate scales with haste"
lol energy gain differences between haste and crit gear.
haste.
crit
whats another 1100 E between gearsets.
(holy shit)
@solid nova big brain. haste isnt going away is it.
not mad i guess. but I just didnt attribute the haste to raw E gain. was just looking at tick rates.
solid nova
Casual 1.1k difference 
lone junco
was just messing with pushing my archive to crit. 26% to 42%
massive losses
was hoping to get twist working.
but r i p. to the juice once we lose archive haste levels.
derp. totally makes sense why haste is dead stat in M+ cleave.
we are E capped anyway, and the bonus from haste is E related not really tick rates.
astral hill
Whats is better - 2x SS + Archive or 1x SS and 2x Archive
lethal heart
@solid nova enjoy your day friend 
lone junco
@astral hill it really really depends on ilvl and gear. use Raidbots.com
lyric geyser
@shy axle and @lone junco awesome thank you!
jaunty ginkgo
best way to open on zul?
lone junco
g g g
mythic zul is sub though
this is my heroic zul open.
might be a bit better with the double rupture, but i got 100% ilvl on that one. so it was fine by me.
buoyant coyote
lone junco
why did i waste so much time in legion playing outlaw. Clearly dumb spec. 🚫 🤺
sin master spec
normal spear
next week my guild will start mythic vectis. do i use exs or tb? i should also align vanish (with 1 SS) with add spawn, right?
vendetta on cd?
wheat zealot
Tb will line up with add spawns
strange python
i use vanish on second add on pull, idk how it lines up without exsg tho
that way you get vendetta and vanish ready after transitions both times
normal spear
thanks
strange python
wait nvm on first add
and first add after transitions
cant really do anything to the first add as sin so i only put 1 garrote on it and continue targeting the vendettad boss
normal spear
why not garrote + rupture => switch back to boss? extra energy
strange python
you get pretty much capped anyway since you bl on pull
add doesnt stay alive enough for it to be worth using rupture on it either
it dies in like sub 10s or like 8
strange python
i imagine so
i wouldnt use it unless you have to move out of your group with high stacks tho
10 seconds is not worth to put a rupture + garrote ???
You rupture + garrote first add and every other
karmic ingot
Rupture refunds energy when the target dies. Why wouldn’t you rupture the add?
Also, don’t forget that garrote and rupture don’t actually generate any energy unless your target is poisoned so if you just tab over for 1 GCD “for the energy regen” it probably won’t do shit.
grave trail
what do i do if when i stat weight with raibots it shows my 370 ring is an 12% upgrade over my 340 ring but when i sim it the 340 outperforms my 370 ring
karmic ingot
Use the top gear sim. Stat weights are kinda shit.
grave trail
yeah its weird cause my stat weight says crit > haste maybe thats why my 370 ring which gives me 179 crit and 226 mastery weighs more than my 340 ring which gives me 110 crit and 241 haste
but the 340 still outperforms in top gear
so just ignore stat weights pretty much?
karmic ingot
Also, 30 ilvls is a huge difference in total stats. I would guess that the only reason you’d get better performance from the 340 is swapping Reorigination Array. You might be able to swap gems/enchants or another piece of gear to make the 370 rong your better choice anyway.
grave trail
hmm interesting
so how do i sim it to make sure
or this is something i havew to do manually
karmic ingot
If you put on your 370 ring and haste isn’t your highest stat, that’s your problem.
You have a huge amount of haste on that 340 ring and that can swing your balance a lot and mess up your Reorigination Array.
grave trail
ah hhh this gives me a headache lol i just wish blizz gave rings main stat and lower secondary stats
karmic ingot
Also, if you’re not gemming and enchanting for haste, try swapping the gems and enchants in top gear sim to haste and see if that helps.
grave trail
yeah the ring with alot of haste has +37 enchant
the 370 is unenchanted
no gem sockets on either
+37 haste*
karmic ingot
I meant sockets on any gear. The sim will make sure every thing is gemmed and enchanted.
karmic ingot
Ah, that’s rough.
Also look for other item slots to help you get more haste. If you can lose 5 ilvls on a belt that would probably be better than 30 on a ring.
If not, just wear the 340 ring until you get something better. It’s not the end of the world.
grave trail
i guess thats what ima end up doing just annoying how a 340 outperforms a 370 just cause rings dont carry main stat
grave trail
what is a good haste % for sin
lone junco
i mean, my offhand is 355 socket. > 385 wep in offhand.
20+
in uldir that bumps to 30+
my 370ilvl is 17k
grave trail
i tot for weapons weapon dps is more important
lone junco
main hand.
use raidbots top gear.
pick your high ilvl shit. then pick the ones with the highest haste. if you have a subscription you can pick a billion things, and it finds the best.
rancid bobcat
solid nova
😄
heavy trail
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eUGgtA6sM9cC5cLBJo8bft
overcharger > harlans dice? :x
spice surge
If you want too, since they sim the same
pulsar sequoia
What is better archive in 360 item or Matrix in 375
dark crag
pulsar sequoia
Ok i see
valid moss
how do you sim for M+ again? hectic 5 bosses 1 minute?
solid nova
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
valid moss
thanks
zinc zephyr
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
ruby idol
Zandalari azerite emissary is today for us horde btw
Get ur 370 ss shoulders
Or yestersay i guess
Idk when reset even is anymore
lone junco
guess i dont need to worry about overcharger unless it sockets.
loss to 375 dice
= fathoms
fresh ginkgo
strange python
its a must to have matrix or archives right ?
for the raid obviously since you would lose so much haste
hell yea went from glory in battle shoulders to SS
im so happy i could cry
fresh ginkgo
@strange python
strange python
lmao hey man im still rocking a 355 SS chest
I got 2 DD and 1 Bloodrite makes me so sad
but my shoulders are 385 and I would lose a lot of stats <.<
serene hinge
so how does exsang work? with enough haste does it just become better and better? i've never been able to get it to sim higher than tb so just curious as to why
serene hinge
yeah sorry, i meant with haste and SS pieces
i know SS was nerfed a while back but it seems a majority of top parses are still running 1 or 2 SS with exsang
spice surge
Its pretty much a 50/50 split, but yes SS is still good
wheat zealot
Ss/exsan build is good for a lot of uldir fights
spice surge
You can look at herodamage to get an idea of how good it is comparetively
Exsang isnt particularly good for uldir, nor is it worse than tb, they're pretty equal. But SS traits are good for most of them (and therefore making exsang better)
bright storm
heed my call or overwhelming power for mut rogue PVP?thank you
tropic rover
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
stark mirage
Should I get crit enchant if I mainly do m+? If I put hectic add cleave on raidbots, crit is very high up. (hectic add cleave 1min)
vestal wren
haha nice
wild lily
rip old venom rush idk
wild lily
ohhhh okay yeah i started changing that stuff then didnt finish the instruction thing haha thought it was just plug it in and go
vestal wren
it is, it just does not dissable additional targets
wild lily
oh maybe it didnt work right
i put the dungeon script thing into top gear maybe thats it and i got to do the advanced sim idk haha
oh god thats what it was ooooops again
thats why im not a surgeon though
strange python
Who knows, maybe you'd be a good one 🤔
manic stirrup
Does anyone know why the openere "No Shrouded Suffocation powers for Toxic Blade" does not cast garrote twice?
spice surge
Because you dont have SS
strange python
still got the same question is it worth to sacrifice the buff in uldir for double DD or not
spice surge
So there is no point to cast it twice
manic stirrup
but I have subterfuge?
spice surge
@strange python Sim it, but almost certainly no
wild lily
hmm i kind of want to rename myself irl to Chance from playing wow
spice surge
Subterfuge doesnt give as much damage as SS does. @manic stirrup
For example: Without subterfuge my garrote does 1.5k, with subterfuge it does 2.7k and with SS+subterfuge it does 4.3k
And it giving 2 more cp is better aswell
manic stirrup
@spice surge so subterfuge doesnt justify casting it twice, is that the case for vanish as well? so only cast once after?
spice surge
Well you dont need to cast it twice with vanish
As you can already get full duration if you time it
When garrote is in pandemic range
manic stirrup
But what I mean is with SS you generally cast it twice after vanish
So not the case without SS?
strange python
spice surge
You dont have to cast garrote twice after vanishing, you have to make sure you get a full duration garrote.
Casting garrote twice is one way to achieve it, but wasteful if you dont get the extra cp from SS
manic stirrup
@spice surge what is another way to get full duration? I guess if you already have garrote applied?
spice surge
yes, as i wrote
fleet whale
So the new trait, nothing personal, is the part where it says you gain 40 energy over 20 secs true or just a tooltip bug?
spice surge
Why wouldnt it be true?
fleet whale
40 energy over 2 seconds would be more similar to the artifact trait
spice surge
Vendetta already does that
fleet whale
yeah, but it's half as effective
spice surge
Or well, 60 over 3 seconds
fleet whale
I guess 40 energy over 20 seconds wouldn't be terrible
I also hope the trinkets from the new raid will be a little better than the trinkets from uldir
strange python
40 energy over 20 seconds isn't even 1 mut
fleet whale
eh, that's not the way you should look at it
karmic ingot
@manic stirrup you cast garrote twice after your first vanish when running exsanguinate because you are letting the exsanguinated garrote run all the way out. You need the double garrote after vanish to get the full pandemic duration of the buffed garrote in that case.
After the first vanish, you’ll want to use your vanish before exsanguinate to take advantage of the empowered garrote so you don’t need to double garrote anymore beyond that point.
spice surge
My sims have overall energy regen at 26/s when running tb and like 28/s with exsang
So 2 more isnt that much
Im assuming that trait does a fair bit of damage itself, otherwise its going to be 
karmic ingot
My biggest complaint about that trait is that the name is completely stupid.
Why would a vendetta be “nothing personal”?
spice surge
Probably because they wanted to give something that name (because its meme:y) and this seemed like a good time
fleet whale
maybe you are hired to do killing to take part in a blood feud, so you are not actually a part of either family?
strange python
nothing personel kid
fleet whale
the new Fan of knives trait looks pretty neat
fresh ginkgo
anyone know how long it takes for the chamber to reach 100% in mother once mother steps into a chamber?
karmic ingot
Also, 2 energy per second isn’t amazing, and even though it’s not even 1 whole mutilate, it could still be enough to squeeze 1 extra GCD into vendetta which might not be too bad. It’ll probably take more than 1 extra GCD to make the trait competitive though, so we’ll definitely have to see how the damage tuning ends up.
fleet whale
it depends on difficulty
karmic ingot
2 minutes on Mythic. 3 minutes on heroic or below.
fleet whale
Still no changes to Venom rush in 8.1 yet, in fact, barely any assassination changes at all
spice surge
Tbh assa doesnt need any changes, except possibly nerfs
wheat zealot
We got enough of that with raid release lol
quasi ledge
Their constant "keeping an eye on talents that see no use" only seems to apply to underperforming specs. 99% chance Venom Rush stays as it is until 9.0
spice surge
Sure venom rush is awful, but tb and exsang is a nice choice and also the whole stealth row is pretty competetive aswell
quasi ledge
Want it changed completely
fleet whale
I don't want it to be better than either of those talents, but why doesn't it work with blindside?
i would also prefer if TB was replaced with KB but that is more of a flavor thing
karmic ingot
KB?
fleet whale
kingsbane
karmic ingot
Ah
spice surge
Thats one thing though, blindside should be slightly useful, instead of just worthless
But thats mostly due to double dose not proccing on it
fleet whale
blizz should have just kept hemo tbh
karmic ingot
I didn’t really play sin in legion at all. Not used to KB, but I feel like TB has great synergy for a lot of fight mechanics. I like it a lot.
quasi ledge
Replace Venom Rush with Kingsbane, make it scale from mastery. Tuned correctly you'll have a really fun row where it's pretty much down to personal preference and also create different haste/crit/mastery builds
fleet whale
KB and TB are pretty similar, though with KB there is a little more ramp up
what i really liked in Legion was cycling through KB and TB in antorus as they were both short cds
quasi ledge
The synergy they had together was really fun, too
karmic ingot
The only thing I don’t like about TB is having to drop CPs into a rupture before going into a burst window on adds.
quasi ledge
But i dunno. Just feel they could add a bit more cool synergy between talents. Master Poisoner > Kingsbane. Elaborate Planning > TB. Dispatch > Exang
quasi ledge
Yeah bit of a shame. Could easily have distinct poison/bleed builds
spice surge
I mean they had that in legion
fleet whale
i think blizz wouldn't to stray away from the bleed/poison build in bfa
spice surge
Nobody played bleed (except for a little bit during tos, but then you played sub anyway)
fleet whale
wanted*
karmic ingot
Can’t be doing that. Obviously rogues would need 4 specs if we had distinct builds within 1 spec lol.
quasi ledge
Nobody played bleed because it was always lower. Now we have the Garrote trait etc combined with Exang
spice surge
One is always gonna be lower than the other
quasi ledge
As always, but add in random traits and you'll play to your gear's strengths
spice surge
It already works like that though?
Also, they're not very random, especially not in 8.1
fleet whale
exsang and tb are fairly well balanced imo
quasi ledge
Yeah not random, different i guess
I mean, we're fine as we are. Not campaigning for change for the sake of it, it's more exploring what they could do if they removed Venom Rush etc
fleet whale
yeah, assassination is not poorly designed spec by any means, and is well designed as a whole... well at least by bfa standards
just as always there could be some changes but i enjoy playing as it is
spice surge
Tbh the only thing i would want is an execute. Blindside is just awful atm
Only worth using during the proc 🤔
quasi ledge
I imagine balance of the talents will go skwiffy towards the end of the expansion where we have more than enough haste and can stack mastery or something
fleet whale
@spice surge bring back leggo bracers to replace blindside
strange python
It would always be nice if u had some diversity in a spec
Allowing u to play differently with the same reward
good dps
spice surge
Assa is fairly diverse though, you just dont get much rewards for playing well
Which is probably very intentional
fleet whale
that has been the story for assassin since at least mop
could always do stuff to maximize but it didn't make that large of a difference
lethal heart
assa needs some kingsbane type ability
every spec lacks that one ability
that artifact provided
at least one ability
karmic ingot
Blizzard seems to have a thing about trying to eliminate high skill cap specs.
quasi ledge
Kinda the trade off tbh. Low ceiling to the spec, but all talents are pretty damn close to where it almost doesn't matter what you play
spice surge
🤷 Kingsbane didnt really do much for the rotation, its pretty much the same without it
lethal heart
had a little bit more than now
you could play for envenom uptime during KB
was all you could do
fleet whale
It's never had much depth, it's designed to be an easier spec, but it's not bm levels of easy at least
spice surge
yeah and now you can play for EP uptime
spice surge
BM is currently the hardest hunter specc though
wheat zealot
Could argue bm has nore depth because it actually has cd reduction
spice surge
As the others just take traits that remove like 2-3 of their abilities and spam 2 buttons
wheat zealot
And multiple cooldowns
rocky mango
Is there a certain point you should switch from using Toxic Blade to Exsanguinate?
spice surge
When the sim says its better
rocky mango
fair enough.
hollow cloud
tropic shadow
2/3 chance of getting the SS azerite gear from emissary cache , of course I get the DD one...
short arch
F
drifting elbow
tropic shadow
pretty sure each faction only has 3 items
subtle tundra
i need a head with SS but theres no head from emissary with SS
tropic shadow
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
marble magnet
Is there a macro that would keep my ability in the same space when I switch exanguate/toxic blade
short arch
#showtooltip
/cast [talent:6/2]Toxic Blade; [talent:6/3]Exsanguinate
marble magnet
thankies
silent flare
okay so i fixed the problem for breaking 10k dps but my parses for itm lvl still suck major donkey cock.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nMJhN6YXADt8dR3v/ can anyone help?
royal lantern
why is your garrote/rupture uptime so low on fetid?
it should be close too 100% on that fight
dense quest
he didnt even open with garrote
royal lantern
and how are your secondarys?
old knot
noob question here: when do i exsang (past opener)?
and after exsang, do i follow the usual refresh rules? or let the dot run off?
royal lantern
when you do new bleeds after you used exsang you did nothing at all
re-apply bleeds when it is close too get off cd and use it and let the bleeds run out
old knot
ty tryan
fickle epoch
why is my mythrax log so bad 😦 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/P74DyGV2CXRFMZN3#fight=35&type=damage-done
bronze kelp
cause you dont multi dot maybe ? 😃
bronze kelp
111k visions of madness dmg is a bit low
fickle epoch
melee can't really hit visions tho? we stack for ranged to cleave
if melee hit visions we risk beam being in wrong spot
fickle epoch
thought that was only orbs
spice surge
Thats not what the hotfix did, it was only orbs
strange python
oh nvm then
fickle epoch
I wonder if TB is better there
so I guess I could multi dot the weapon + Myth (which I just forgot was too tunneled) but i don't think that makes the log
I get 4x Ven + 4x vanish
on pull, on first intermission, on first weapon after intermission, then on lust after 2nd intermission?
quasi pewter
multidotting add and boss is pretty big tbh
if you didnt do that
and yea while its pretty useless more damage on the visions is definitely possible
vanish lines up a few times with weapon spawn aswell
fickle epoch
I can't get in melee range of the visions. I have to be stacked on opposite marker. Only time I have dmg on those is when on rock and they spawn. Then i'm just using FoK for cp
quasi pewter
which means you can vanish garrote both add and boss
fickle epoch
yeah I'm getting 2x vanish with weapon
quasi pewter
hmm idk for me there is usually enough time before next beam to get some good damage on the adds aswell
when on rock
fickle epoch
do you run CT?
quasi pewter
nah
ours dont die that fast either so i put a garrote and rupture on one sometimes for the energy
fickle epoch
I could try toss rupture up for energy
don't think they live long enough for enough gcds for garrote as well
so tl;dr:
- make sure multi dotting when weapon
- dot visions when possible
think we're carrying lockout till g'hunn dead now 
strange python
thats stupid
fickle epoch
it's apparently pretty common for guilds to do
rough yarrow
is there a guild at ghuun with less than 380 ilvl?
fickle epoch
8hr/week makes re-prog an issue so with only maybe 4/hr a week on g'hunn I could understand
strange python
So 4 raid days?
fickle epoch
nah 2 4hr days each week
quasi pewter
if ur still progressing atm i dont think the loot is gonna be a big problem
so extending is propably best
quasi pewter
they already have over 2 months of loot
rough yarrow
if u r like 370 maybe. but everyone and their grandmother is over 383 at least
strange python
So?
royal lantern
over 383? i would kill for that lol
rough yarrow
maybe theyr racing
fickle epoch
racing against the clock tbh
strange python
You have like 2 months left
rough yarrow
there are server first
royal lantern
375 for over 1 month now and never get upgrades, loot is and always will be luck based
quasi pewter
the minimal gear upgrades they're gonna get is not gonna outweigh double the time on ghuun
quasi pewter
so if they wanna kill as quickly as possible extending is definitely the correct choice
rough yarrow
exactly
strange python
2 months is way more than enough to kill 2 bosses
rough yarrow
its good to kill bosses before nerfs. makes recruitment better
u forget that holidays are coming
fickle epoch
the re-prog is the biggest hinderance
rough yarrow
maybe ppl will get 3-4 weeks off
rough yarrow
the game
strange python
Why though
strange python
You're reaching right now rofl
strange python
No bro check the calendar again
fickle epoch
holidays are 6 days away 
rough yarrow
ok we agree that we disagree
strange python
You disagree with me
Yes
Im just saying why its better to reclear imo
You do what you want
rough yarrow
im done with progress
first time we killed myth we locked
ghuunn dead in 10 days
soz 2 weeks
every guild do it diff
its fine
strange python
I mean sure, but you saw what happened with Limit vs Method
urban rain
Anyone here playing with Master Assassin?
tidal jetty
to compare extending after week 1 versus week 11 is kinda reaching tho, dont you think?
stark mirage
do warrior tank suck in m+ that much? Compared to brew and that tier?
strange python
Still possible upgrades 🙂
rough yarrow
the problem is blizzrads system and blp not working so u may end up without any
strange python
Thats why I said possible
rough yarrow
and im the living proof of that
civic palm
I only believe dead proof.
strange python
Mizle finish progging your normal uldir first 
civic palm
You mean my M-Vectis rolling potato guild?
strange python
Vectis is why I quit
civic palm
The potatoes being the tanks slowly getting further and further away from where they should be.
past vale
can someone help me out plz? so i am new to rogue this xpac. i plan on mainly doing mythic plus, i only have one piece of gear so far that has archive on it but the same piece is my only SS piece as well. i also have a different piece that goes in the same slot that has dagger in the back. when i sim these pieces, i am not sure which is best bc it goes back and forth between archive and dagger but i always read up on how important it is to have an SS. What do i do?!
strange python
SS for m+
subtle tundra
you are probably simming single target, where SS isnt that good(but i still play with 1 since it feels awful without it). in m+ you garotte with SS 3 targets
past vale
it does feel awful without ss for sure
past vale
ahh now sims just picked it up saying that ss is better than all 3 of those outside of raid
subtle tundra
feelsbadman i have to play with all 370 azerite gear in raids while having 2 385s in my bags since i need RA and SS
strange python
Try getting laser/archive for the free slot then?
subtle tundra
i tried, no luck
past vale
so what about between these 3, tidal surge, scent of blood and blood rite
for shoulders
looks like sims saying tidal surge for ST and scent for aoe
lethal heart
you wanna use scent in m+ only in fortified preferably
subtle tundra
i mean it depends on the key if youre going in tyrannical and you have a dh and arms warrior in your party scent of blood wont be so good since the mobs die instantly
lethal heart
but i guess
if thats your only option
in tyra you'd preferably run triple shrouded
subtle tundra
cant wait for next raid all the azerite pieces have DD SS or/and the new trait
strange python
is that confirmed?
lethal heart
they might change it
because it would be pretty op
passa is bound to get nerfed if triple shrouded is that easily available
because it already has biggest aoe sustained dps potential
lethal heart
no idea
but assa is gonna get nerfed
no way it isnt
like idk
some flat damage nerf
civic palm
Either that or some more SS tuning.
strange python
Its just a little buff
subtle tundra
SS and DD buffed
strange python
yeah DD as well gonna scale with vers
lethal heart
maybe playstyle for dungeons changes
next tier
because ideally you'd like to drop vigor
for deeper
or well nto really playstyle but talent choice
depends how high crit will be available
if they dont touch assa though
its gonna be more bonkers than antorus boomkin/monk
i'm telling you that
strange python
Sela was talking about going nightstalker+mfd next tier
or night + deeper
For that huge CT damage
civic palm
Yeah NS/Deep might work.
strange python
yeah exactly
lethal heart
for giga snapshot
playing around that would be meh
idk
would have to get used to it
and really play around it
like actually pull quickly
strange python
I'm levelling my warlock just in case
lethal heart
that nightstalker - deeper - ct
going into pack
when beta was on
that it oculd be playstyle
but then shrouded suffocation is a thing
and it just synergises with subterfuge
strange python
New fok talent
lethal heart
and its a solid choice for cleave
and for st aswell
but that playstyle
deeper stratagem/high crit/ngihstalker
thats gonna be some
triple scent probably
for high forti
civic palm
That's why I am thinking we might see a SS nerf to attempt to make it in line with not using SUB, though that's up to target counts/etc. and I am not sure if it's possible.
lethal heart
unless new traits which i dont know
strange python
unstable/blightborne perhaps as well?
outer spoke
crimson tempest for this week keystone? mhmm
lethal heart
no
i mean depends
as assa you're probably main guy for orbs
so ct is useless then
because if yoiu're guy that is supposed to deal with orbs
you dont have cp /energy to use CT
so psn bomb is better choice then
tidal jetty
assa on orbs kinda blows tho
lethal heart
ct is overvalued
strange python
They nerfed orbs
strange python
I've been running PB since the beginning and actually done like 2m+ with CT
lethal heart
and miss out on all the extra ruptures you do
all the extra envenoms you do
i'd recommend everyone to play psn bomb assa this week in keys
unless you wanna push really high so then just deal with it within your grp
but for average pug
i dont see reason to not go psn bomb assa even in stuff like shrine because sub isnt that good in dealing with explosives
outlaw idk
strange python
Outlaw is very easy target switching
lethal heart
sub gets energy starved too quickly when its not 5-6 mob aoe
assa needs like 6-7 globals and you can blast orbs
for next
10 globals or sth
you do your triple garrote/ get like 2-3 ruptures going
and you can deal with orbs easily
round harbor
@strange python to add to your reclearing is better. Gear doesn't really mean much on ghuun anymore
strange python
They on mythrax though
round harbor
Yeah
strange python
I've seen ghuun yeah
round harbor
We extended mythrax
It's just a matter of once you don't need the gears, just the time on pulls
Then reclearing is pointless and waste of a few hours that you havr
strange python
Yeah if you really don't need the gear then sure
I haven't played for the last like 4 weeks and I'm 379 so I guess every1 is 380+ rn
round harbor
For the most part yeah
Like the raid missing a piece of azerite here or there isn't the difference of killing bosses
strange python
For 1 person sure, but if the majority still can get upgrades then it definitely helps
But its going into details rn so not worth arguing about 🙅
round harbor
Ye
dark crag
Or extend ghuun and wipe in p3
dark crag
While many mains sit on bench and have no progress because you need 4 warlocks
nimble tartan
dark crag
The "need" was sarcasm
strange python
all u need is 0 melee
dark crag
CE is at risk
wild pollen
Can someone very experienced with Assassin take look at my char and tell me if there is anything I should try to change? https://wowchar.com/eu/anachronos/sefrys
I'm very undecided on whether I want to use exsanguinate over toxic blade, and crimson tempest over poison bomb
strange python
For Single target sim it
Generally you use Exsang in m+ with Poison Bomb
Watch this 😃 https://youtu.be/U8aPt_qLt08
wild pollen
eyy thanks
quaint flare
man that helm 
strange python
I got it as well last week, fuckin lucky
quaint flare
grats man im jealous
strange python
Yeah loot isn't fair at all
quaint flare
i got Cephalohide Jacket
quaint flare
and its sitting in my bag with no traits
strange python
Why wouldn't they make it so you can't get the same azerite piece twice
Considering its the same ilvl
quaint flare
raid? i do i just dont like take raid seriously
pug taloc/mother
on mythic
thats about it
strange python
Yeah raiding is not my thing for now
15fps is not fun 😄
Hopefully 8.1 will be huge in performance boost
strange python
yeah I guess its not as monotonous as raid
round harbor
Honestly best way to learn in m+ is watch a top end streamer that you enjoy
Watch how and learn why they do certain things
fading ocean
why do i sim so low? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vYqPave8gZpLTNx7KLmwTy
spice surge
Low array stacks, pretty bad azerites and not amazing weapons
civic palm
trinkets, sockets, weapons, traits?
fading ocean
im using haste/vers wep enchants, the sim wants me to use double haste
spice surge
Why would you use vers and not crit/mastery
strange python
Dont use same weapon enchants
civic palm
fading ocean
im not, the sim wants me to
civic palm
check the guide
smoky tulip
Has Construct overcharger updated on ridbots? Isit suddenly good now?
Sitting on a 385
fresh ginkgo
Think its updated
smoky tulip
385 is only 40 DPS higher than my 370, socketed Corpuscle :/
civic palm
Yep
knotty tusk
Should i go crimson tempest in zek'voz mythic for add damage?
maiden siren
knotty tusk
Should i bother rupture spamming the warriors? Just feels weird not doing much add damage
fresh ginkgo
probably not if theyre dying fast
dull osprey
so is TB build more of a sustained damage build and less bursty?
cobalt gyro
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
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errant mauve
where am i sittin in comparison to other dps at my ilvl?
well other rogues i mean
spice surge
You should sim with reorigination array enabled to get a better veiw
spice surge
50% on the haste buff
Last week, all resources are updated
Its still fairly meh, but less useless
crude sundial
Same for me with the overcharger......https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t75ox2LKD9Ui4L1z1BcDZu
vagrant trellis
Yo, quick question. Is it worth taking a 370 SS over having 2 385 DD. I dont have mythic Fetid chest yet, playing SS with that and using Raid trait shoulders would be optimal, but my sims tells me to use double 385 DD and go with raid trait on my 370 chest. Looking at logs everyone is still playing atleast 1 SS and going subterfuge, so im a bit confused, havent done much testing for myself, as im used to just simming whatever is best for me, anyone have any suggestions?
spice surge
Use what sims the highest
People typically dont get to choose between SS and DD at the same ilvl, as getting either at high level (outside of fetid chest) is just based on luck
vagrant trellis
Im mostly confused because most logs have atleast 1 SS
spice surge
Because most people have acces to a 385 SS from fetid
whereas 385 dd is not something easily available
vagrant trellis
I have double bis so im lucky :S
spice surge
Well ditb is slightly overvalued in sims
vagrant trellis
But i dont have any WF/TF and i only have 2 sockets which is kinda meh :S
spice surge
Or well, it assume you're always behind your target
empty tide
and im using toxic blade
vagrant trellis
Alright well, thanks for the answer =)!
errant mauve
im a lucky one i have 2DD at 385 and 1 archive
sucks though cause i run more M+ and i only have 1 370 SS trait
honest needle
how do u loook on details who did the msot dmg to explosives
Im trying to figure out how to use details
urban storm
enemy damage taken
urban storm
then left click on explosive and itll tell you the splits
honest needle
im there
i dont see explosives at all
under that
thats all i see
i dont see explosives
urban storm
idk then sry
honest needle
i wanna kno who did the most dmg to them
urban storm
you could just go to damage
and click on each person, thats a little more time consuming
honest needle
if i go to motherload overall is that going to show for every explosives
because 1.9 percent sounds little
is that for overall ?
empty tide
was DD buffed
manic stirrup
@karmic ingot Im still confused as to when to use 2 garrotes and when not to? So if Im running exsangu, then I guess you always use 2 garrotes after stealth/subter? Because the logic is you are letting all the dots run the full duration?
proud gust
@manic stirrup you always double garrote when running subterfuge
after stealth that is
prisma monolithBOT
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jaunty bluff
!wa
manic stirrup
@proud gust thats the thing I was trying to ask earlier, it turns out you dont always. Even the opener in the ravenholdt guide dont do it if you dont have SS
proud gust
yea if you vanish again before garrote expires. i usually double garrote for 24s then vanish after that
velvet kernel
is it too early to tell but do rogues look good in dazzalor? aint been able to test it yet
grizzled ruin
Hey, I was wondering if I could get some help review logs. I'm Dustyrogue for these fights. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q8KjgM39nCPwdAvk
I parse mostly in the greens, and I've been looking at a bunch of compares, and I don't really see anything that I'm doing terribly wrong. For example, on Fetid, I cast a similar amount of garrottes, but somehow, I do 100k less damage with my garrottes. This seems to be the pattern for every spell, where I do a lot less damage, even though the number of casts are the same.Thanks in advance!
chilly marsh
Titanic Overcharge Your attacks have a chance to increase your Haste by 2640 for 10 sec, stacking up to 8 times. anyone know if this buff is on radibots?
karmic ingot
@manic stirrup You double garrote when you need both casts to put it to full 130% pandemic rotation on the empowered garrotes. Your first vanish is cast immediately after your first exsanguinated garrote wears off. So you want to double garrote after that vanish.
Approximately 2 minutes and 18 seconds into the fight, you'll have vanish up again. You don't necessarily need to double garrote to get full pandemic duration on the empowered garrote this time because you should have some duration left over from your normal garrote before the vanish.
After that 2nd vanish, you'll use vendetta and exsanguinate and so they can buff the empowered garrote from vanish.
From that point on during the fight, you'll always vanish before vendetta/exsang so you'll never need to double garrote to get the full pandemic duration since the only time you let the DoT wear off is right after an exsanguinate.
manic stirrup
@karmic ingot ok that makes sense but what if you dont run exsang? but you have subterfuge?
velvet kernel
still double
karmic ingot
If you don't have exsanguinate, you double garrote on the pull. Any time after that, you shouldn't be letting garrote fall off so you only need to single garrote after vanish. Basically, it doesn't change anything.
shut pollen
Does someone of you cast vendetta from stealth in the opener? I started trying it out on the bosses where we BL at the start since the energy reg won’t matter at all.
Wasting a global in the opener with prepot feels awful to me
shut pollen
@karmic ingot I think even without exs u let garrote empowered by subterfuge fall off instead of overwriting it with a weaker normal version
karmic ingot
Sorry, you're right. I meant that you when you're using vanish to get the empowered garrote, you should be refreshing from a non empowered rather than applying a new one.
shut pollen
Oh sorry now I get what you meant
honest iris
is bloodmallet or herodamage more accurate?
random scroll
@shut pollen you're wasting globals in your vendetta to set up dots aswell as tons of energy and possibly subterfuge window if you're using that talent, maybe MA also but I'm not using it
I don't think I've ever overcapped on energy even with hero and galecaller
You can spam pretty heavily
That's possibly 3 to 4 sec you're not dealing damages inside your vendetta, thats 20% of the duration
1s on pull because you don't have any bleeds up by precasting it, 2 sec to apply garrot and rupture (3 if you go for mutilate for a 5cp rupt), 3 sec if you go for double garrot rupture and 4 if you run exs and have to extand rupture ? Think that's about it
lusty narwhal
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
tropic pike
Is it still possible to get xmog for the kingslayers?
random scroll
yes all of them except mage tower ones
tropic pike
Thank you, does this apply to all of the other specs aswell?
velvet kernel
Yeah
tacit wedge
The sub spec can xmog the sub legion weapon, outlaw the dreadblades
velvet kernel
With daggers?????
strange python
So I just hit 90 on my rogue
and I look at everyone here talking about exsanguinate
But I don't get how it works
Like why would bleeding out my poisons faster be better
o.o
tropic pike
Burst damage
But the true power of it only comes about when you have unlock the shrouded suffocation azerite trait
strange python
So would another talent on the 90 row be better for levelling?
tropic pike
It doesn’t really matter that much until 120 and the type of content you do tbh
But try out toxic blade and see which one you prefer
astral gyro
As a new rogue player myself toxic blade feels really awkward
young socket
Interesting. I'd think newer rogues would enjoy TB because it's easier than exsang
leaden storm
do we know if the nothing personal trait is any good?
rare garden
!wa
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solid nova
Frequently Asked Questions
-Type !Help for a list of all our bot commands
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Essence Overview !Essence in the relative spec channel
-The damage part of all traits stacks, for example Shrouded Suffocation doesn't grant an extra combo point after the first trait but grants more damage for every stack. As of October 3rd, the SS bug is now fixed.
-Shrouded Suffocation works by buffing each tick of garrote by the amount, rather than some other mean to increase overall damage.
-Pandemic this term relates to reapplying buffs/debuffs. When a debuff (like garrote) is refreshed, its remaining time (up to a cap of 30% max duration, so 18x0.3=5.4s for garrote) will be added to the new buff. Primarily used to give leeway to reapply bleeds, however can also be used to make bleeds last longer.
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quick aurora
Hi, just a question , what is better for raids , toxic blade or extanguinate? i have been using toxic blade since legion but have seen people using extang in raid and mythic+ .......we are up to mythic mother........i have archive , shroud and tidal (until i can get lazer) .......my talents are 2,2,1,2,2,2,1 also iron wire or internal bleeding for raid ? thanks in advance
quasi pewter
sim it
atomic karma
pins
strange python
@atomic karma???
atomic karma
with what froffy was asking
strange python
Yeah and what do pins have to do with that question
quick aurora
i have simmed it toxic sims 12,191.......and extang 12,147 .....so not much difference. I was wondering more about what is better overall eg for trash mobs and bosses not just patchwerk..........like how people will switch to sub at a lower sim for zul as it is better for that 1 fight
steep obsidian
its kinda nice to have exsang for trash coz its kinda fire and forget
with tb you gotta sit on the mob for the duration
but its personal preference tbh whatever you feel better with
quick aurora
yeh that makes sence , i do great damage on bosses but not so good on trash , was playing around on training dummies and exsangs damage stayed high for a long time
quick aurora
i hadnt played sub for years until the other day , i ran some lower guildies thru mythic 0 while practising sub , getting used to it again and love it now.....so much fun
peak harbor
Guys what talents should i go with 2x Double Dose and 1x Archive ?
crude sundial
Depends on the rest of your gear or as usual....SIM YO SELF!
peak harbor
Yeah will do, and i presume i should pref Master>Haste if i do Double Dose right ?
crude sundial
but I'll take a flier and say that SUB-TB, SUB-Exang, MA-TB will be pretty close
Can't really assume stat weights either since it depends on the rest of your gear.
brisk forge
Sim it, only way you can tell
quick aurora
I have another question in regards to shrouded suff .......after first rotation why do u vanish then double garrote , instead of garrote ,rup, garrote like in the opener ? it seems once i get to that stage (the double garrote) , dps drops and energy is starved...........
alpine rain
doesnt compare with galecallers tho
brisk forge
Sim it depends on the ilvl etc
alpine rain
trying to find me 385 one :)))
alpine rain
yeah i know... but now its gone 😦
quick aurora
my 395 contruct does 63 haste for 10sec
normal spear
@quick aurora depends on how many CPs you have at that moment. if 0, then 2x garrote => full CP rupture or whatever finisher you need. if you already have some CPs before vanish, you shouldn't waste them, so garrote - rupture - garrote is the way to go
it is not strict "2x garrote on vanish". just a general guideline
quick aurora
thanks dsj , just hitting the training dummy atm , also trying out exsang , i like the playstyle better 😛
shy axle
@quick aurora no Need for Matrix. You do Gar - rup - gar because you want the maximum pandemic Gar and max pandemic Rup before using Exang. If you use Vanish you use 2x garr to get max use out of SS trait but no Need to get rup to max pandemic, it is "just there" when not using Exang in the next few sec
quick aurora
thanks @shy axle makes more sence now. .......as im mainly raiding after archive and shroud what should i have as 3rd trait , ive looked at blood mallet, ask mr robot etc , they all say different things?...........also on the long raid fights am i better off saving vanish to line up with exsang? or vendetta etc ? or just pop it as soon as garrote runs out after opener?
vague patrol
grizzled jay
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
green saffron
Hi, I need some advices what traits to use for MD+ (11+).
I have 1 x DD 375 Head and 1x DD 385 Chest, and AoTitan 375 Shoulder. Should I replace my DD with SS traits, I only have 1x SS Chest 375 from Uldir, and 2x SS 345 head and shoulder?
And what is correct way to use simbots for MD+ scenario?
@velvet kernel 😛
velvet kernel
For m+ i sim 6 targets 40 secs patchwerk with no buffs
but depending on how many you pull you can do like 3 targets instead
wooden island
it's around 2.8k mmr on alt rogue atm(the one im playing)
velvet kernel
i would replace the dd chest with ss
but not the head and shoulders
but simming it will give you a better idea @green saffron
green saffron
@velvet kernel Thanks, I'll try to sim it now.
strong sundial
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
green saffron
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j3d7BwFVK8agsFLxKar1w8
Sim report, 6 targets in 1min, sim result suggest me use TB rather than Exsang, with 3 x SS stacks?
solid nova
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
sturdy python
You can use the dungeon apl Richard posted to get another look. You simmed for 60s which let's you get a second tb out to only 1 exsang so that's probably why it simmed so much higher.
strong sundial
do u guys extend bleeds for second exs. without gale?
delicate crater
If i have a situation where Archive and DD sim the same (M+) , is there an inherent advantage to one of the other in terms of playstyle or ease of use? It seems to me DD would be much less useful on trash pulls
but Archive and DD still sim within .01 of each other on single target
spice surge
No as you can't get array in dungeons
shy axle
well then use the Archive, quite usefull, stack uptime is quiet high if you pull fast enough
wary ice
is crimson tempest worth using in m+?
quaint flare
The drop down on the side
acoustic geyser
So is double dose basically best in uldir with, 2x DD and 1 x Archive?
ive been on the SS trait train from older guides and just updating my knowledge
grave trail
How does my deck out dps my 370 construc overcharger trinket lol
spice surge
Deck is a good trinket, overcharger is a fairly bad trinket
lean coral
grave trail
gale caller's the best one?
grave trail
ah well i use TB when does exsang out dps tb?