I'd give up lazer for SS
#assassination
cosmic mesa
spiral shadow
fierce knoll
395 construct worth?
placid elbow
then yes, i'd prob give up lazer for SS, mostly because SS gameplay feels more fun IMO
@vast olive hang onto it. Apparently, construct got buffed.
brisk raptor
@vast olive got the same, it worths, tho not simming correctly yet
vocal harbor
is 49 dps within margin of error?
toxic blade and exsang are simming within 49 dps of eachother atm, not sure what to use
proud ore
in pvp do you guys stack the everloving shit out of haste/mastery (rule of thumb 20% haste 40% mastery) and the rest vers, and try to avoid crit?
thinking about upping my vers
brisk raptor
@vocal harbor use TB if you have more crit/exs if you have more mastery
marsh bloom
Would it be ok to wait to use envenom till the first adds on Fetid?
vocal harbor
i have 19 more crit
brisk raptor
true
vocal harbor
gotcha, i might be able to squeeze more mastery out of optimizing my gear
but i thought crit/haste was the way to roll so that's what i've been stacking
vocal harbor
yeah my weights are kinda weird
brisk raptor
single target its crit haste yea
vocal harbor
everything is 2.04 or 2.07
like, i need everything almost equally according to these weights
brisk raptor
then your stats are balanced
for versa Iβd say 300 is enough, same goes for mastery, rest is crit-haste
vocal harbor
oh i've got way more mastery
hazy skiff
Anybody know if construct overcharger was stealth buffeed today?
vocal harbor
764 mast
brisk raptor
it was buffed yes
hazy skiff
50%?
brisk raptor
thats way too much
yea around that
check ingame loot from Taloc and check wowhead
vocal harbor
746 is too much mastery?
brisk raptor
do some quick maths and you get the buff %
in my opinion yea
you dont need that much
ofc you can aoe your ass out with that much of mastery
but your ST damage just gets way low
vocal harbor
looking on warcraft logs, it seems like for 2x SS you go exsang, and for 2x double dose, you go toxic blade
but i have 1x SS, 1x double dose
hazy skiff
looks like haste portion was buffed by 46%
vocal harbor
i've only got practice with exsang atm, i'll try messing with the tb rotation
i just wanna do the biggest numbers to help my guild on fetid atm
vocal harbor
also why wouldn't mastery assist with TB setup? mastery scales envenom damage i thought
brisk raptor
then you can push 2-3 maybe 4 envenoms in that window
vocal harbor
i see
brisk raptor
mastery scales poison&bleed dmg afaik
envenomβs nature dmg is another thing
its buffed by TB
Heed My Call is dealing nature dmg as well thats why it can be prefered in both ST/AoE situations
odd compass
brisk raptor
tell me if I am wrong π
lone junco
hero damage
lone junco
vapid moth
Ty
brisk raptor
vapid moth
I like using the bots tho :(
quick ice
Bot gets lonely if nobody uses him
vapid moth
Is Nothing Personal a new azerite trait?
floral saffron
what are peoples thoughts on the buff to Taloc's Construct Overcharger?
crude bay
If its better than what i had before i will use it, if it is not i will not
vapid moth
I have a 385. Hopfully it beats the 380 frenetic and cannon
vapid moth
Sim it
crude bay
Gutripper for raids, heed my call for m+
vapid moth
Doesnt heed actually sim higher
crude bay
Gutripper for tyran freehold
Dunno, i just value execute dmg higher than overall dmg
If people die during fight, execut phase longer = more value, if you do ghuun mythic = only value you really care about
vapid moth
Fair point
crude bay
Switching to crusher/hexer when theyre low on zul mythic with short time on debuff left = lmao its def anyways cause 3000m eviscerates
echo void
Thanks Nudo
crude bay
Yw friendo
crystal pilot
how important is shrouded suffocation for m+?
i only have one stack of it, i wanted to know if i should prioritize getting more
craggy imp
https://gyazo.com/b730f1fb106576ef76785d16c06dfd31 from what i can work out this is good correct? can some1 confirm please
i see sorry from my idiosy XD
winter moss
if you want to hear this, they seem normal not too off or something
@crystal pilot shrouded is hella good for m+ because we restealth alot. one stack is a good start
i also play with one and 2 stacks of scent of blood
light kestrel
8.1 PTR is up, they buffed blindside
nerfed our new trait, Nothing Personal. "Nothing Personal Vendetta grants you 50 energy over 20 sec and Vendetta poisons the target, dealing [ 144 * 10 * (1 + 27 / 100.2 * (1 + 0.2) * (1 + (170% of Spell Power) / 100.2).2) ] Nature damage over 20 sec.and grants you 40 energy over 20 sec."
Kinda bummed out that they took our gold talent from legion and (Depending on tuning) made it worse...
quick ice
I mean part of it we already had
because vendetta gives 60e over 3 seconds at the moment, yeah?
so this just adds the other bit
light kestrel
Yeah, and the added 2 E per sec on top of it, hopefully it doesn't come with the sound effect...
versed salmon
whats assassin pvp stat priority?
native oak
@light kestrel reminds of the leggo head from legion when acitvating kingsbane
light kestrel
Yeah it does remind me of that, hopefully further tuning will change it, I liked it better when it was 50E per 2sec and increased mut damage
quick ice
its poison rather than knives this time @light kestrel so we should be k-chuk free
light kestrel
Now that I finally got my hands on a not trash GCB... it appears to have massively devalued haste
craggy helm
Thoughts on mythic Zek'voz?
Specific Questions: Worth it to not use vanish in the opener and save it for the first add phase? (for triple garrote)
What rotation to use in add phase? Spam FoK? FoK + ruptures/garrotes on warriors?
zinc terrace
tbh my guild needed the boss/casteradd dmg more than the small add dmg so it depends on the setup
i used CT over bomb though
and just fanned and kept CT on smalls up and garrote/rupture on boss + add and fan for full combo envenoms on mindcasters
guess it's gonna depend on the setup that you run with
light kestrel
Alright, so if I were to swap all of my enchants/gems to mastery I would lose 38 dps ST... But should be a large boost in aoe, no?
quick ice
possibly yeah
craggy helm
@zinc terrace Thanks! Yeah, on many pulls we're struggling with add phase, I think having more dps there would be beneficial (at least to get more practice doing orb phase)
zinc terrace
Yeah we had 120 pulls on zek to have everyone figure it out it's really draining but we've all been there π
vocal harbor
370 archive or 385 SoB for m+?
strange python
6 targets 40 sec unbuffed
vocal harbor
alright i'll give it a shot
and what about for the boss fights? just normal patchwerk but set reorigination to 0?
strange python
Idk how the xpac works, havent played it
regal snow
Yeah set it to 0
vocal harbor
kk, ty guys
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
regal snow
!m+
vocal harbor
ahh i see, tysm
dreamy fiber
Normal ST sim, people getting similar? http://prntscr.com/lfci6e
Not played rogue much recently so was curious crit was giga devalued
regal snow
How much mastery u have?
dreamy fiber
regal snow
Running close the same stats
vast forum
@vocal harbor don't trust the sims for sob vs archive, it will consider you not having any archive stats om pull which is not the case
I'd say 385 sob should still win but the difference should be far smaller than in the sim, and archive has more st value
thorn grove
Just run triple poisoned wire for memes
vast forum
Run tripple sub or outlaw traits for the memes
thorn grove
Run naked
strange python
Rogueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
main bobcat
How does the taloc trink sim for people now?
strange python
@main bobcat baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad
atomic abyss
Whateverest 
atomic abyss
For ST, most likely, yes
main bobcat
Cant say i get 100% up time on gale alot, specially not in m+
But the proccs of the trinket are so fucking rare
The taloc one
Rearly get beyond 2 stacks for some reason
atomic abyss
Gale in m+ is yikkers anyway
echo cargo
idk i used taloc's trinket tonight and regularly got to 7+
echo cargo
first 4 in mythic (vectis was progression)
vocal harbor
@vast forum tyty
main bobcat
Ah yea, guess those fights are long lasting enough
tropic pike
if i loot mother as sin then switch spec to outlaw when i do bonus roll
does it bonus roll outlaw?
quick ice
It should
vale helm
Do you guys Exsang with 'just' refreshed dots or you also maximise pandemic first?
Also would I be able to have my weakaura show if a dot is exanged or not?
quick ice
I try to max pandemic, and probably but I don't know for sure
ruby idol
Ideally its max pandemic bleeds your exsanging ya
I just use exsang cd to keep track of if the bleeds are exsangd or not
If exsang cd is less than 30 seconds remaining, then ur bleeds arent exsangd basically
lost horizon
harsh glacier
is there a way to avoid plasma discharge on taloc?
I take like 200k more damage from them every run than the other rogues
just luck, or is tehre something Im missing?
fierce ingot
vale helm
Yep you can cloak it before it even drops 1
unkempt karma
DD375 Ditb385 for St?
Atm I'm playing exang, with 2 SS and Archives.
But looted a stupid 385 ditb in chest today
winter moss
!sim
ancient mistBOT
π
Invite the bot to your Discord: https://goo.gl/uvbnZ4
Join the Raidbots Discord: https://discord.gg/86EF64Q
Raidbots website: https://www.raidbots.com/
Send !raidbots -h for help!
@winter moss
unkempt karma
I can't, at work :p
winter moss
same here
unkempt karma
Haha but I like SS play style more the. dD
DD with toxic is borring
But I guess I will sim all Gear when I get back.
Azerite lvl is shit tho, next is 32... I'm omw to 31
wind berry
Sup, using galecallers , do you macro it to vendetta?
cunning pebble
Macro it before exsang
vale helm
Is there a way to macro that specific trinket but not if I have something else equipped?
cunning pebble
/use Galecaller
vale helm
Thx
quaint flare
what options are you guys using to try and sim m+
solid nova
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
quaint flare
dope thanks richard
solid nova
quaint flare
winter moss
advanced shit
long osprey
Well that's convenient. I've just been doing patchwerk 3 bosses 40 sec lol
winter moss
sim 6 bosses 40 secs if you are to lazy for scripts
cunning pebble
Does it restealth before each pack?
The dungeon script
Doesn't look like it sadly
long osprey
My tanks aren't good hence the 3 π
winter moss
it a sim for one situation not the whole dungeon
cunning pebble
Maybe I should log some M+ runs and create a rough sketch of some different dungeons
Does SimC even support starting and stopping combat inside the sim?
quick ice
kinda, its apparently hacked together to make it work
late moat
any tips how to deal w/ packs of mobs w/ 2xdd 1x aot and MA talent ?
quick ice
one at a time? π
shy escarp
pretty much. you pretty much forgo any real cleave with that setup.
glacial steppe
If I want to sim trashpacks for this week should I go with 5 bosses and 20s? or 40s?
shy escarp
probably 40s for more realistic higher key pulls?
hard cove
got 2x shrouded suffocation now π should be much better for m+
now i just need a helm with lazermatrix and im full sorted
or is archives on my helm better than lazer ?
hard cove
fair enough
im mainly an m+ player though so dont i want split damage ?
or im guessing the agi would be better to buff my garrote more ?
vast forum
Split dmg means it has same value on aby number of targets, while agi value increases with number of targets
hard cove
true that xD
so 2x shrouded 1x archives should give me a substantial damage boost in m+ compared to 1x ss 1x poison wire 1x archives xD
vast forum
Aye
hard cove
thats all i gotta hear xd
sick cradle
Does things like Rezan's fury and Dagger in the Back benefit from mastery and exsang and what not? Since they are bleeds
copper bronze
Hi, i'm actually using raidbot for stats weights and i wonder if i'm doing it good like
-mono: ligh movement 3min one boss
multi: light movement 1min 3 boss
quick ice
I don't think light movement really does much
onyx leaf
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
vast forum
Just sim patchwerk for single target @copper bronze
wraith stratus
oi lads, trying out sin in semi-high keys rn 11's-13's mainly and just got a quick question about dungeon specific specs or when to play crimson tempest and when not to. would love to have some insight on that topic
vast forum
Ct in all dungeons except kr and tos
wraith stratus
and stat wise just goin for crit/mastery should be fine when goin ct right?
vast forum
You still want some haste for tyrannical weeks
wraith stratus
the highest haste i can get to is still only like 12% since im mainly playing sub
vast forum
You're good with stats then
wraith stratus
aight, thank you
novel moss
That blindside buff though... yay -_-
spice surge
Blindside already works on 35%, its just a tooltip change
copper bronze
lol
i'm actually:
13% haste
27%crit
26% mast in mono
what do u guys think
oh forgot, 4% vers
wraith stratus
oh btw, hows sin compared to sub in tdg this week?
jagged elk
hey guys!
do we really want to delay our 3rd exsan for vendetta+vanish?
when my 3rd exan comes up, vanish still has got like 40 seconds left on CD
lone junco
@cunning pebble dungeon script restealths like 4/5 times.
You can read the apl sample sequence.
winter moss
@jagged elk is this fo real
gusty nest
!m+
spice surge
No you do the opposite @jagged elk
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
winter moss
exsang has 45sec cd
spice surge
Delay vendetta for exsang
jagged elk
infexious wrote this, so i wanted to ask:
InfexiousLast Friday at 18:56
Exsanguinate
Pop galecaller before you use exsanguinate always
have max duration rupture and Garotte ( use pandemic)
delay 3rd exsanguinate to pair with vanish and vendetta ( delay 20 seconds to pair)
Vendetta>Vanish>Garrote>rupture>garrote>Galecaller>exsanguinate ( when every possible)
cunning pebble
@lone junco Cool, will check it out when I get home.
Just got the idea to do some sort of extract from logs and automatically insert fight lengts into the SimC profile. It's not 100% accurate, but it would be pretty cool! π
winter moss
and infexious was talking about a very specific situation, and if your third exsang is 40sec apat from your next vendetta you should use it
because 5 < 40
lone junco
The dungeon sim is nice. I need it added to raidbots so I can use the top gear tool tbh. I don't make manual gear sets anymore.
spice surge
Some people also dont consider the spells used in the opener the first one
So the third exsang he could actually mean the forth one
rose copper
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
cunning pebble
I can feel I got that one too just waiting for me to get home
winter moss
@strange python take care, things like that get you a stabbing around here
grats dude
spice surge
@strange python Nice dude, i got my third belt
strange python
Well I got 2 azerite pieces in a row
But the one from the previous week is garbage
spice surge
Yeah my weekly m+ cache has mostly been garbage all expansion, the pvp one i've had a fair bit of luck with
zinc zephyr
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
hot flume
Almost had garbage all the time in chest so wp boy
winter moss
m+ caches = garbage bin
strange python
I just rolled to outlaw as well
vestal wren
no azerite 4 weeks in a row, blp working as intended
blissful plover
if your doing pvp and pve in the same spec is it possible to change buttons i mean if i "for exempel" have Garrote on my "4" keybind. in pvp, and want mutilate on "4" keybind in pve is it possible somehow to save the buttons ? so i can change between them easly when im doing pvp and pve?? "hope you understand what i mean. haha π
blissful plover
gz
pale knot
Did the agility trinket of Taloc get buffed or is it some bs rumors?
shy escarp
man I can't even get guildies to run Shrine with me
tropic shadow
As much as I like the trinket it seems like a very anti-melee trinket
spice surge
@pale knot Compare it ingame to wowhead (which hasnt updated yet)
shy escarp
even if you can't stand in it the whole time, you still get a huge chunk of the benefit from using it to buff exasanguinate
so my 370 construct is showing up at 57 haste per stack ont he proc in game, but only 38 on wowhead
shy escarp
wonder if that would push my construct ahead of my fathoms
cloud grove
Would love to get a 380 dice π
shy escarp
doubtful
steel geyser
What stats do you guys aim for M+ ? Crit / Haste or Mastery / haste ?
Since I dont raid anymore i'm reconsidering my haste enchant / gems. I checked leaderboards on raider.io but I find a lot of different stuff (and a lot of rogues are switch sub/sin so kinda hard to read)
strange python
General stat weights are: Crit>mast>vers>=haste
steel geyser
But you still want some haste for bosses and comfort
strange python
Sure
zinc zephyr
I still have to set 40s-1min 5 boss patchwerk if I'm using the m+ script? Or what options should I use with it?
steel geyser
thats why I was wondering what you guys aim for m+
strange python
@zinc zephyr 4-6 targets 40sec-1min
cold meteor
Is Taloc trinket buff updated on nightly raidbot ?
short arch
Taloc trinket buff?
zinc zephyr
thanks @strange python . I ran the advanced sim and couldn't tell why haste>agi>everything else (i have 993 haste in m+ gear)
now it is as i should be agi>mastery>haste
cold meteor
@short arch just scroll up a bit π
strange python
You play CT despite the affixes but only if you do big pulls
If your tank pulls like 3-4 mobs, I don't think its worth playing CT
short arch
oh boi, maybe my 385 one finally does something
echo night
this week pulling big can be very punishing tho
strange python
Why
echo night
gonna need atleast 3x aoe stuns
strange python
Its tyrannical
echo night
raging
strange python
But its tyrannical
cold meteor
just kite gg
strange python
echo night
true true
strange python
Just get a frost mage
zinc zephyr
does this m+ script work for top gear?
echo night
try it
shrewd bane
strange python
nope
scenic saffron
anybody know if the raidbots is updated for the construct overcharger ?
echo night
where do people get that this trinket is buffed?
zinc zephyr
well, it doesnt put an errorcode like stat weight
short arch
You sure its updated? Even after the buff it sims lower than my 355 fathoms ._.
fiery cradle
https://gyazo.com/e5d27faf4a8fd4aa928bf40cb9c52c6b
haste softcap ecksdee
onyx leaf
If you play Exsg with Galecallers Boon, do you always sync them up and lose time on Exsg or do you just use everything on cd?
quasi pewter
On cd normally
onyx leaf
Thanks! What about preparing for Exsg in general? 3 Cp rupture at 10 sec cd, garrote at 3 sec cd, 5 cp rupture at 1 sec cd and then Exsg? Does that make any sense even outside of pandemic windows?
fiery cradle
aslong as you have max duration pandemic bleeds you're fine
echo night
Can people show me where this buff on taloc trinket is happening?? Still simming shit
spice surge
Its ingame only
fiery cradle
idk if its updated on simc but even with buff it could still very well be shit
fiery cradle
both i thinmk
spice surge
50% more haste
quasi pewter
My 385 socket is simming like 80 dps higher than before
spice surge
only
fiery cradle
ah
echo night
The ppm on it is shit, rarely keep 5 stacks... Usually only go to 2-3 stacks..
quasi pewter
So its not huge which means it might still be shit for people with good trinkets
echo night
Fair enough xD
quasi pewter
Simming better than my 365 socket dice though by 30 dps
echo night
Cant wait for 425 ilvl GCB in 8.1!!
fiery cradle
i still have a 365 gcb xd
echo night
Or 425 dice :D dungeon trinkets are gonna scale like fucking crazy in 8.1 if they dont change it
415 base ilvl from weekly chest on a +10
thorn grove
Juicy
main blaze
All 3 8.1 raid azerite pieces has SS traits
lament dove
yeah, but you'll have to respec with this between m+ and raids... currently my respec costs stand at 5g, so I don't like this:P
main blaze
SS is strong for raids too
And you have the second row which has single target traits
echo night
Cant fucking wait for 8.1!!! So hyped!
clever niche
1 SS in raids makes the opener so good, probably not top damage but definitely a nice quality of life pick
echo night
Where did u find the items from 8.1?
main blaze
on the ptr
median mason
Can't wait to farm azerite to unlock all those traits
echo night
Im just glad we unlock the outer rings first xD
clever niche
Aye the order of unlocks is spot on
The community really dislikes the goalposts set for higher gear though
Me personally doesnβt care
hot flume
How much azerite is needed for 8.1 pieces to be fully unlocked at mythic level
lone junco
@main blaze what is that vendetta icon?
main blaze
The new trait
lone junco
right, but what does it do
main blaze
Vendetta does damage and gives back 40 energy over 20s
It would be awesome if it was MA again lol
I miss MA
lone junco
MA is awkward timing wise until it got to 1m or 45s. Kinda glad it isnt a CDR
hope the 40E/20s stacks.
120/20 is real
main blaze
I imagine its the damage that stacks
lone junco
if that Vendetta poison is at least 3/6/9% on the dmg profile, would be nice i guess. May keep EP strong.
idk
versed osprey
That trait looks sweet for pvp
static tapir
3x heed my call or 2x heed + 1 overwhelming?
rugged jetty
Sim
ashen lagoon
what do you recommand for M+ ... trade winds as a trait or go for a 2nd SS trait?
rugged jetty
The more ss the better
vagrant onyx
so i got an azerokks in the cache today, i guess that would be better for m+ than fathoms for m+? my other trinket is dooms wake
ashen lagoon
@rugged jetty Thanks So ill go 2nd SS trait and look for a 3rd one is that correct?
rugged jetty
Yup even at 340 I'd almost use it for a 3rd
winter moss
that 8.1 raid piece.... i came
sorry late response but how juicy is that
like
DAMN
10/10
lime plume
guys i just got my galecallers last night, was wondering if I should use it with vendetta or prior to vendetta in the opener, or if i should use it before the opener
faint harness
could the trinket from Taloc be slightly better now that it got buffed?
or still garbage tier
severe perch
Are ppl using 4 set from ToS to chees more dps from garrote?
wary reef
You could use the 2pc I guess for aoe, but I doubt it would be worth
eternal sigil
Ryan, if you use exsang, do your order, vendetta, Gale, exsang
severe perch
Well is it allowed to link logs?
becuase i have a korean that has the 4 sret equipped
unsure if he is using it tho
versed osprey
Most likely troll
eternal sigil
4 set and 2 385 ss traits could be interesting
spice surge
People were using it before the raid came out
versed osprey
And even if it is true hardly worth investing time in it as soon as it is known to general public blizz nerfs these old sets into the ground
wet otter
wtf blizzard, three straight weapon rewards from emissaries, and not a single dagger
eternal sigil
Yeah since I have 2 385 ss traits. Im gonna try to get 4 ToS tier for fun
strong needle
I'm pretty sure we never had a dagger from emissary
dark crag
Eu horde got atleast 2
winter moss
WHAT
solid nova
Yeah.
winter moss
havent logged in yet 2day cant say for alliance
worldly raft
Hey Everybody!
Is there really a haste cap ?
Haste is now REALLY low for compared to a few items ago, i wont even use Galecallers anymore
solid nova
No.
worldly raft
So the sim is wrong?
solid nova
Why would the sim be wrong?
cold meteor
no cap, but diminushing return due to "lack" of other stats
wary reef
You probably lack crit
cold meteor
^
glad light
You should try simming MA instead of subterfuge
and if you get SS traits and play exsang/sub haste is valued much more heavily. For me haste is > agi
glad light
Have you tried exsang over tb?
main blaze
Yeah its a dps loss
glad light
Do you have a galecallers?
main blaze
Yeah
cold meteor
Exsang works better for me only when I have 2 SS
cold meteor
you probably have less crit & higher mastery
I wonder if construct overcharger become better than fathoms π€
Can't wait to go home to sim it
small island
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
main blaze
The uldir trinket?
glad light
for me it sims = fathoms
cold meteor
That's why crit sims higher for you, you lack of it π
worldly raft
Any idea where the breaking point is ?
cold meteor
maybe try to trade a bit of versa/mastery for crit
obtuse island
TtF?
spice surge
He means twist the knife
dusky tinsel
anyone else find situations where laser matrix is simming higher than archive? same ilvl and same chest piece. 100 dps difference, seems odd.
dusky tinsel
so laser just scales better?
spice surge
No
dusky tinsel
I dont have the +5 ilvl's in either of those pieces yet
dusky tinsel
but for w/e reason laser is 100 dps higher. And both secondary traits are gutripper iirc
hard cove
holy crap 2x shrouded instead of 1 x shrouded and my dps jumped up over 2k in overall in dungeons
i had no idea it was that good !
lost sentinel
SS is king in M+ afaik
hard cove
yeah i knew it was bis
didnt know it was that good though
like 2k dps overall from 1 more shrouded
errant mauve
SS dmg is applied to per tick dmg or the overall dmg done?
hard cove
thats pretty insane
lost sentinel
per tick
errant mauve
so would a 370 scent of blood be better than a 345 SS? if i have 2 other SS peices?
tulip wedge
might depend on key level/fight duration
errant mauve
13+ keys
tulip wedge
if fortified or that high id bet scent pays off but have to sim it playing with fight duration
dusky tinsel
@spice surge ah nvm the chest with lazer matrix has overwhelming power and my archive chest has gutripper, but not sure if that makes up a 100 dps difference? possibly. OP sims weird.
subterfuge apparently sims higher than MA with no SS traits if I run laser matrix instead of archive, ughh what?
austere spade
hum they buffing blindside Blindside Exploits the vulnerability of foes with less than 30% 35% health
tropic shadow
WTB 3X SS for keys please
austere spade
wonder if will make it useful
fresh ginkgo
still waitinf for more emissaries 370 caches for SS shoulders 
austere spade
rip
tropic shadow
I finally replaced my sharpened blades chest with double dose, Iβll take it
spice surge
Iirc its not even worth using under 35% only with the procc
But thats with double dose
Idk without
strange python
There an updated azerite trait list anywhere? I'm a pleb
dusky tinsel
why does laser matrix sim higher with subterfuge over MA if I have no SS traits? Because more chances to prock? doesn't make too much sense. Like 30 dps difference.
glacial steppe
so, yesterday we did a siege +14 and played like half of the trash with a spotter. after the key i got flamed for my "low" overall dps
yikes
assa life hard life
tropic shadow
Some people need to pad their ego
latent agate
does the fathoms really sime higher then a 365 gale?
dusky tinsel
fathoms sims higher than most of my 375+ trinkets
crisp steppe
my thoughts on nothing personal is what the fuck is this trait
winter gale
I just switched from ss to 2xDD and my opener changed too.
I need to garrote/mutilate rupture?
Then Vendetta/muti/toxic blade/envenom?
Muti/envenom again then Vanish to refresh rupture?
at 5secs?
tropic shadow
Check the pins
winter gale
Guide says like this on ravenholdt
I wanted to ask what after?
Since I still play with Subterfuge
Not MA
Atleast it sims better for me
0.5%
spice surge
All openers are in the guide
crisp steppe
just follow the guide
winter gale
Guide stops after vanish. I wanted to ask for later vanish
do i then line it up with vendetta?
spice surge
Yes
tulip wedge
@glacial steppe you kept 1 spotter alive while chain pulling the rest and letting the spotter nuke hit the adds?
agile phoenix
why is bloodmallet telling SS is bad on heretic add cleave ?
not even bad like absolutely worse
dusky tinsel
simming hectic add cleave isn't the best way to gauge SS, 3 boss targets is
dusky tinsel
simming hectic add cleave in general is bad for gauging sims
plain thistle
probably because the profile use MA and not subterfuge
dusky tinsel
unless you're fighting skorpyron
M+ I'd just sim 3-6 targets at like 40 seconds, or 2-3 mins, really I do both just to gauge numbers based on duration
steel bane
Is the new Vendetta trait good?
agile phoenix
the new trait echoing blades might replace it though i think
dusky tinsel
doubtful, instead of stacking 3 SS traits you might have 1 echoing blades. Garrote's initial damage is too high for a FoK trait to beat it.
agile phoenix
with DD might it be an idea to change EP to master poisener
dusky tinsel
If FoK hits a 2nd time from the trait it only benefits EP, granted it gives the CP, that's another finisher you can pump out in that 4 second window for 10% increased damage. Don't really need to reapply poisons with FoK being a filler at high target count anyway.
Granted I'm running 2 DD traits x 1 SS (that's the hand I've been dealt) for Tyrannical, you're not mutilating frequently enough in large trash packs for DD to have much value outside of boss damage or priority targets.
snow ridge
18k finally
Got neck to 32 and new ring
hoping to get zul shoulders tonight
so i can use my 390 chest with SS
dusky tinsel
@snow ridge is lasermatrix simming that much higher for your than archive? That's something I've been struggling to decide on with an equal ilvl chest, and a 100 dps difference
snow ridge
only have 360 chest with archive π¦
dusky tinsel
not to mention lasermatrix still wants me to run subterfuge with no SS traits, because ya know, RNG isn't favorable to me. Only have 2 SS pieces and both are chests.
snow ridge
370 dropped last night but i gave it to my kid
think archive will be better than matrix
dusky tinsel
I'd think so as well, not to mention the laser has overwhelming power, which tends to not be realistic when simming.
snow ridge
yeah the overwhelming nice
snow ridge
now mastery = haste for me
snow ridge
i have like 33 with RO
dusky tinsel
yeah no wonder >.<
snow ridge
it just sucks that i have a 390 chest with SS and can't use it in raid
desert vault
what is the typical setup for Fetid? Or I guess which set of adds is lust most commonly used on? 2 or 3?
austere spade
3rd for mine
desert vault
I think we are going to try lust on second which sort of screws up my CDs since I'm on small add ... sort of a waste to pop CDs+Lust on second set
quiet crescent
We use it on third.
quiet crescent
Uh. I wouldn't do that personally but sure.
desert vault
yeah if we are lusting on second no reason to use CDs, just no CDs on pull I guess
quiet crescent
Small add is a huge waste to pop vendetta on.
austere spade
well
i agree
but at least on my shit ppl wouldnt kill it if i didnt
so i just threw my parse out of the window to ensure a kill
desert vault
yeah but we've got 3 locks and a DK on big add so nothing much I can do but use them on small adds really, we are tight on DPS so every bit helps
quiet crescent
We tried it like that but didn't have enough damage on fetid for the last burn.
desert vault
that is my worry as well
quiet crescent
2min cds on pull
desert vault
we had a 12% wipe last night at over 5m, but had a bunch of people die around 4:40
quiet crescent
Yeah having assasination rogues on small add is a waste. You should talk with your raid leader. :)
quiet crescent
Is the dk frost?
quiet crescent
3 he said
austere scarab
if you do 3 aff on large add and have a DH that leaves what? 1 spot on big guy?
quiet crescent
That big adds gonna get melted lol.
austere scarab
that's what we do. 3x aff + 1 DH + our floating melee dps.
grim blade
Hey does anyone know if you can wear two of the same dagger from the same boss on the same difficulty? (Eg mother)? Iβve seen people wear them together but diff ilvl
quiet crescent
Yeah you can
fierce sluice
Hi guys! I've tried getting a headpiece with SS for ages now, but no luck. Wondering what trait I could run with instead, for mythic+ that is. Is blood ballet set to hectic add cleave accurate for m+?
bloodmallet* obviously, although blood ballet sounds intrigueing
serene nacelle
Scent of blood/Archive of Titans are decent options
fierce sluice
Oh sweet, I got the slithering loa 385 from weekly, which has scent
gonna try that out, thanks!
hoary umbra
man what, did they nerf expedition leveling? it feels slower. Is it still quicker than questing?
velvet kernel
how to deal with fetid mythic shockwaveS?
tropic shadow
Shadowstep
tropic shadow
Donβt get thrashed lol
velvet kernel
4Head
tropic shadow
I didnβt see the mythic part at first , disregard my ignorance haha
opaque grotto
Shadow step doesnβt line up with every shockwave I think
stray patrol
Are you guys doing 3x vendetta on mother or just doing on pull then on 3rd platform with BL?
hidden anchor
what stat weights do y'all go for for m+?
glacial steppe
@tulip wedge yeah, we kept 1 spotter alive so i couldnt go invis with tripple shoruded
opaque grotto
What do your sims say?
slate jacinth
How come I sim higher with TB, even when I have 3 x SS pieces with exsang? π
subtle tundra
probably low haste and no gcb
molten moon
@slate jacinth because SS isn't that great in ST
hollow grove
why do mythic trinkets suck dick?
paper bough
I have 385 deadeye and 380 plums but somehow sim says fathoms is better than plume
Lustrous plumage that is
hollow grove
what about boon?
slate jacinth
When I look at the top rankings for assa rogues on mythic fetid, most rogues are using Harlan's Loaded Dice over Darkmoon Deck.. but when I sim patchwerk 5 min 1 boss, it says darkmoon is better than Harlans?
My harlans is 370
buoyant ember
Good rng
cunning pebble
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
desert vault
I run GCB on fetid for sure cause its helps with the burn, i'm on the small add, i was running fathoms last night but maybe dice, i dunno
tulip wedge
@glacial steppe sucks for rogue dmg but thats an awesome way to clear siege. definitely sounds fast
outer pier
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
quaint sparrow
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
glossy kestrel
@paper bough if 380 plumage vs. 355 DMC is simming together, consider how much downtime you'll have. most of us use the patchwerk setting, but almost every fight in uldir has downtime or a burst phase. generally DMC is overbudget, but if you found a trinket which sims very close to it, the clicky trinket will pull ahead, because DMC suffers with downtime.
hazy geyser
I am currently doing mythic raid progression and got to the point where min maxing is basically a make or break. So i have a couple questions regarding rotation. I have 2xSS and archive with a bleed build. I do the opener and vanish double garrote and everything is great but it gets iffy when i get exsanaguinate later on it gets to a point where garrote and rupture are like half duration at that point do i reapply and exs or exs to get new procs up
Also there is a point where my garrote runs out but i have vanish up in like 7 secs do i reapply then vanish double garrote or wait for vanish ?
lone junco
Garrote cd is what 6s? I wouldn't let garrote drop. But make sure you never ; garrote vanish .................................... garrote garrote rupture exang.
Meaning. I refresh the garrote normal. But still vanish gg. Mostly to ensure max pandemic but also best cheap cps.
As for the later non buffed exangs.
The value of midblock exang is to take full length rupture and shorten it. So that you can replace it sooner. There is no gain by refreshing beyond pandemic max. So I just refresh rupture and garrote and exang however they fit in rotation.
The vendetta vanish being very very important. The others. Meh.
Esp if they aren't stacked with gcb
Example. Exang almost ready and rupture has 24 sec left. Do you mash another 5cp rupture prior to exang?
hazy geyser
At that point its probably not worth it right
hazy geyser
Also i cant seem to line up exs vanish vendetta eventhough they should line up exactly based on their cd
hazy geyser
Wait you vendetta vanish double garrote or vanish double garrote vendetta
lone junco
I vendetta before.
agile phoenix
so we all go blindside now π
lone junco
Just want all ticks of the garrote to be in vendetta. It is longer. So you have some time. 25 sec vendttta wth 11s? Exang garrote.
Is blindside a thing now?
hazy geyser
I doubt it will do more damage than the +10% for 4 secs
hazy geyser
Unless they do some crazy artifact trait where its like blindside can be used after every crit or make it not have a GCD
agile phoenix
you dont have traits for specific talents
hazy geyser
Didnt they say they will add specific traits in an extra ring
quasi pewter
you can already use blindside at 35% ingame btw
lone junco
Ive played with it. Very little synergy. Would be better if it turned mut into blindside. Then it would work with VR and Poison wire.
and 2cp 4cp.
lone junco
Else. Big meh.
quasi pewter
it actually sims okay-ish with deeper strat
lone junco
Grats 384.
hazy geyser
Damn 384 and i though my 378 was good
lone junco
I'm 366. So Ill catch up in a month or three.
quasi pewter
got 3 ilvl because i can equip the taloc trinket now
hazy geyser
I honestly hate how easy it is to gear up in bfa
lone junco
Taloc over fathoms?
quasi pewter
yea
agile phoenix
why are people so anti gear
i rather not have a big itemlevel gap
so i can compare myself with other people better
lone junco
Well none of it matters anyway. They release new content an bing everything you worked for is obsolete π
hazy geyser
People are anti high gear like you can basically skip heroic dungeons and get a mythic+8 drop every warfront for just existing
agile phoenix
well i like it
can gear up alts
or get that one item that just doesnt drop
dunno what you are on about π¦
The only thing i hate is people in pugs. They all act like they never whiped on a single raid in their lifes.
hazy geyser
I dont mind it for alts its just that people overgear on their mains and go to semi high keys with 0 idea of what they are doing because they have been getting free good gear
agile phoenix
thats not the lootsystem to blame though
hazy geyser
Like pugs have always been bad but its the worst now
inner pecan
I got banned on my main 3 weeks ago, releveled and regeared a new rogue and it's 382 equipped now lel
not hard to gear up
hazy geyser
Its the warfronts and all the free loot flying around
dense quest
I think thats what every expac says about pugs
always worst now
wait till the next expac then you will say that again
inner pecan
stop pugging
agile phoenix
easy to say
inner pecan
it's not hard to find a guild and make a circle of friends
agile phoenix
when did you do for last time
inner pecan
I started Legion with zero experience in the game at all and worked up to World 65th guild
just by being good at the game and networking
go out there and meet people
lethal magnet
anyone knows the optimal priority list with a single sharpened blades trait as sin?
trim nebula
hey guys, so I am doing some progression on mythic zek on sin.
spice surge
Use it with 28+
trim nebula
what kind of rotation should I be doing for the add phase
inner pecan
just focus the Voidweavers while building CPs off the small warriors
if you're playing SS you can save Vanish for the Voidweavers
and double garrote on boss + Voidweaver
eternal sigil
If your guild needs more aoe burst, go outlaw. Otherwise your job is spellcasters and boss
civic hinge
Def trait question - Impassive Visage vs Bulwark of the Masses for M+?
pseudo hamlet
winter gale
Guys can I stack inner ring traits or ?
I have both cloak and shield one and 3rd item is giving me either of those again
sick eagle
Hello,it feels like I am doing something wrong in my rotation. I got a 57 for my ilvl and if someone can check what I did wrong I would appreciate it.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MBgyVd7zjNhW3KLQ/#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=5
winter gale
Nice
spice surge
@sick eagle Im looking at the non-elevator phases and this is what im seeing:
- Your bleed uptimes are below 95%, they should be as close to 100% as possible
- You are not using toxic blade on cooldown, you miss out on casts of it because you're delaying it so much
- Poison knife isnt worth it generally, better to just conserve the energy for when you get back to the boss
sick eagle
ok ty I will keep that in mind
velvet kernel
any way to get a good log on fetid while being on the small adds?
velvet kernel
so thats a no then?
without chaning spec/talents
unless i could just get super good uptime
velvet kernel
kk
inner pecan
I question why you're playing that build in the first place
seems like a mistake by your raider leader and by you
velvet kernel
well
should i just switch to tb?
@inner pecan
we kill it
just was wonderingf for a log
inner pecan
the best would be you being on big add if possible
but if you absolutely have to do small I'd play TB yeah
pale knot
is there any new sims on the taloc trinket yet ?
seems like they increase the haste with 20 per stack on mythic version
spice surge
You can get a rough idea by adding 2 sockets to your gear
To get it close to what it should sim
hard cove
ok so i was stupid lucky today
looted mythic mother got my bis dagger for assass
bonus rolled her too
got another dagger xD
hollow junco
spice surge
gzzzzz
hard cove
ty π
today has been good for me xD
got 385 SS shoulders 2x 385 daggers and a 385 helm from vectis xD
delicate egret
Relatively new to assassination and rogue in general and I've been having some issues with pulling relatively low DPS.
I'm not exactly sure where I am going wrong, when comparing my logs to the other rogues of my guild we seem to be doing more or less the same things. Could I convince one of you to take a look at my log and perhaps give me a few pointers? I'd really appreciate the help.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zm1BZhK2W7r4cGLx/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=27
round harbor
wait is volcanic a dps increase?
https://gyazo.com/81f762d3c2b1cf6d0727c7112fdd5da2 think this mage might be onto something here
lol
spice surge
Are you not just looking at damage taken? π
spice surge
Then sim with 8 instead? :p
hard cove
dunno how to XD
using the raidbots discord bot
coz it has queue skip XD
my guild discord anyway
spice surge
Edit the options from auto to 8
hard cove
running it now with 8 xD
lucid bolt
finally killed heroic ghuun last night lol
hard cove
nice gz dude
lucid bolt
thank you!
dull osprey
I'm still 5 points below 16k
which hurts my soul
QQ: do we still pool resources to get off more bursts or are we ABC (always be casting)?
desert vault
Yesterday on mother I got double rings. Pretty fun. I have three of the rings in my bag and one equipped. No wf/TF or socket on any of the five.
drifting elbow
generally u do pool for TB duration
other than that, not really pooling anywhere in abilities
dull osprey
what about getting autoattacks in?
I read somewhere to time abilities to not clip autoattacks and it seemed wierd
drifting elbow
doesnt matter
inner pecan
that's not a thing
drifting elbow
that was in wod or something?
inner pecan
nope
spice surge
Thats a classic thing, removed ages ago
dull osprey
then wtf guide was I reading?! lol
drifting elbow
funny tho since hunters sometimes bugs out with autoattack reseting when using ability
spice surge
Read the one in the pins here
drifting elbow
well u wont be pooling then since u r using exsan
dull osprey
so I smash my face against my keybinds for the duration of the fight
if I do switch to TB, pool for it but not any other time
drifting elbow
keep dots up, smash ur buttons 
dull osprey
aw yiss
I was just wondering because my parses have been pretty low and I've been pulling high dps and not letting things fall off cd
undone sandal
What traits are you guys using for high m+ this week?
eager linden
onyx rock
Whats the highest Sim you Guys saw ?
lone junco
19.1
onyx rock
Omg
lone junco
archive stacks are pumping each week.
bright shale
I am almost at 18k on my rogue I think
They max at 10
Dont they
I'm actually at a point on my rogue that my haste is so high crit beats haste lol
dull osprey
I'm not even 16k yet! π¦
onyx rock
I am at 18,4k and its not even high in comparison to this 19,1k... but i guess so high is a exception
eternal sigil
Ss forever. Except when 3 traits of snake eyes are available lol
dull osprey
I have 2 SS and an archive
lone junco
I played a full clear of DD/TB did not enjoy it as much as SS Exang.
onyx rock
Same here... SS Exang (32% Haste) feels so smooth
dull osprey
is 3 SS for m+ best still ?
onyx rock
Yes
dull osprey
dank
dull osprey
which means I"m still looking for a SS helm lol
onyx rock
I'm still trying to convince my Raidlead to let me play Sin at Zul. But we are now extending the ID until Ghuun is dead... rip @lone junco
lone junco
we are heroic only. so sub on zul is a waste. stuff dies too fast for much.
onyx rock
Yeah ok
bright shale
Wait why on earth would you play ass on zul
onyx rock
Just for fun to pad logs
dull osprey
Yeah I'm heroic on Zul, but since I"m our only rogue we don't keep the crawgs up long enough for me to get insnane numbers as sub. I get some decent increase, but still
dull osprey
basically
onyx rock
"Just for fun to pad logs"
dull osprey
though our dps ins't the best when shit goes haywire later so I have more targets later
lone junco
onyx rock
Its a free kill anyway
dull osprey
often they last just long enough to get through shuriken tornado
lucid bolt
whats the latest news guys?
dull osprey
I wish my bandwidth was decent enough for that...
onyx rock
I stream in 1080p@60fps with max bandwidth
dull osprey
if anyone else is using the network on anything other than like youtube, its slow as shit
but without anyone else on its fast af
well, fast for a college town
30meg
onyx rock
I think you should not advertise here but its nbxrogue on twitch if you like to check me out
The stream is perfect for flaming me if I make a mistake
latent locust
anyone has exp with tiny electromental trinket? is the proc dmg any good?
onyx rock
it is one of the worse ones but like always... you need to sim yourself to know if it's good for you
latent agate
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
latent locust
sims show me tiny jar (385) is better than dooms wake (370) but i m always sceptical about replacing on use trinket with some dmg proc one
onyx rock
that's all calculated in the sim, I would trust that
hollow dew
hey, havent played rogue since cataclysm, wasnt there a time when you could use garrote only in stealth?
sand notch
Yeah, but it's part of the normal rotation now
hollow dew
oh what
i just saw
its a bleed
lol
damn back in my day it only used to sience people
silence
now its dps rotation and
fierce sinew
is it okay to post my logs for heroic uldir and someone look over it and give me advice on how to improve?
velvet kernel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8ZNn7BtVwTcCFbx1/ I'm nyuro any tips on taloc zek vos and fetid would be greatly appreciated
^^ mother too thanks!
@fierce sinew i can give you a hand
if you want
primal estuary
Anyone able to help me look over my logs and maybe give some tips out? Im still in the process of gearing up, but I definitely feel like im lacking in damage (doing something wrong)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZF2g9pMdzvNH68kn/ Im Nelriath
velvet kernel
@primal estuary i dont see any blatant mistakes
daring iron
@primal estuary why are you casting 4 mutilates in a row at times
oh nvm that's just it hitting twice duh
primal estuary
Dont have any π¦
daring iron
that's a lot of dps you're missing out on. your fetid parse is rip because you didnt saved your coolies for 50%
primal estuary
@daring iron Thats a good point considering the fight isnt even 2 minutes
Thanks for pointing that out!
velvet kernel
how long is the fight
primal estuary
The fetid one on HC is 1:30 or something
velvet kernel
lol
primal estuary
1:20
velvet kernel
dont save your cd's for that
lone junco
if you only get 1 vendetta 1 vanish, you might as well hit them at enrage.
velvet kernel
eh
lone junco
not that it matters, cause you are killing it so fast anyway
primal estuary
How would go I around improving my overall damage though? I feel im light years away from doing 16k+ stable π
desert vault
I'm on small add for Feitd, think SS/Subt or DD/Twist/MA? Feel like MA would be better ... I think
velvet kernel
just go toxic blade istead of exsang
desert vault
I run TB either way
desert vault
just seems like MA would be better used DPS, not leaving ticks of empowered garrote on a dead add
velvet kernel
you are prob not going to get a good log on small adds anyway
so if it dies
it should be fine
desert vault
I know I won't get a log either way, not really worried about that
desert vault
right, now to decide is DiTB or Twist ...
desert vault
i figured DiTB would be decent cause the adds don't have a front I don't think and can't be in front of boss
but I guess there is ramp up time on DiTB too
velvet kernel
you cant be behind the boss tho
unless you are assigned that
and i think there is a back to the adds
im not sure
desert vault
i wish i had better trinkets for MA
velvet kernel
dooms howl is good