so I see the problem
#assassination
candid smelt
strange python
Actually TB is used more than exsang on every boss
lone junco
afk this conv.
brisk raptor
lul
strange python
Im looking at mythic
lone junco
we talking sillyness now.
weary verge
Some people pick TB because it sims higher for them, so unless there is a mistake in the APL and exsang should be higher?
crisp steppe
mythrax TB or xsg?
spice surge
Debatable wether or not its easier
crisp steppe
different answer to both
strange python
It depends on traits, trinkets, secondary stats
I'm going to pick TB if it sims more
crisp steppe
some bosses favor tb some favor xsg. the bosses are not sims. if theres 500 dps difference in your sim between TB and xsg then I completely agree that you should factor that into your decision
spice surge
Playing TB perfectly is actually a lot harder, but the difference between playing it perfectly and not is barrrely existant
Whereas its more pronounced with exsang if you make a misstake but its a pretty straighforward thing to setup once you get used to it
strange python
Big yikes
crisp steppe
1 SS is fine. just go with what you have m8
brisk raptor
currently I am going with 1ss 1archive and 1 sands thingy which gives crit
crisp steppe
https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/hd-t22-assassination-exsg this is the herodungeon one, it tries to simulate restealths those type of things.
you can see archive & sands are solid options
brisk raptor
okay then Im not gonna worry 😄
haughty badge
i have 2x double dose and 1x archive, would it be better to use master poisoner?
weary verge
sim it
strange python
^
inner pulsar
Ah man, can't believe I missed that entire TB Exsang convo!
inner pulsar
I obviously did read it, thats how I knew it occurred
candid smelt
alright
inner pulsar
You also said Exsang is flat out better, which is just...not....true. So there is that.
strange python
How is it PC
fossil axle
I'm getting mixed results on trinkets from simc and raidbots. simc is saying use seaborne avian and fathoms. And raidbots is saying use fathoms and corpsucle. which one is the way to go?
inner pulsar
Exsang is not better, in my gear, as I don't run any SS traits in Raid
strange python
You might be using an old version of simcraft @fossil axle
crisp steppe
the difference is either so small it doesn't matter @fossil axle or you are using different settings/versions.
strange python
I just always sim on raidbots with Nightly option
spice surge
Raidbots is literally simc, so if you get different results you're using an outdated version
fossil axle
I was mostly just simming which one would be best in general
I'll check to see if simc has a newer update
strange python
Might just be the dps error
lone junco
my exang is about 0.5% back. not a huge loss. But timing can fuck it up way more than TB.
strange python
eg. ~30dps
crisp steppe
MA Tho
inner pulsar
Sub TB?! What kind of animal are you?
strange python
Subterfuge more flexible
strange python
Especially if mobs spawns while ur vanish is up
crisp steppe
sub tb is good but u gotta go MA and get perfect crits in those windows for ez rankings
inner pulsar
Lol, want to talk about the realm of "not a whole lot of difference", this is about the total of what? 12 seconds of the fight?
If that
latent agate
i havea 370 dagger and 370 pvp trinket which one would be optimal for damage if upgraded to 375 for pve
lean coral
dagger
nimble tartan
i think its doable right now..
rocky notch
19k? pretty easy if you're 6/8m, have spammed m+ and aren't super unlucky
inner pulsar
really show me someone
rocky notch
if i was at 10 stacks instead of 9 today i'd be at 19k without any DD pieces
inner pulsar
Please show us
inner pulsar
Yeah
brisk raptor
14500 
brand new char
stable yarrow
Pog
brisk raptor
🔨
inner pulsar
Welp, I got wrekt
nimble tartan
ur gear nuts pog
hardy veldt
So 9 stacks are max this week? Or 10?
rocky notch
people are at 10 now
nimble tartan
hella 390+ pieces
inner pulsar
I will say, I don't think it is "easy" but you did just pull the big dick on me
crisp steppe
@hardy veldt US is 10
rocky notch
spam m+
nimble tartan
hell no lmao
brisk raptor
raid traits gotta be 2xDD 1xArchive/matrix amirite?
inner pulsar
No
brisk raptor
then which ones should I aim for?
crisp steppe
you can't aim for things
rocky notch
you can aim for a dd helm
proud surge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
spice surge
Well you do need to get lucky and get a trophy
rocky notch
spam games
inner pulsar
I would say though, your actual dps would probably be higher running TtK than DitB
strange python
Maybe dumb question, but what stacks are you talkin about? I am pretty new as rogue
nimble tartan
whos excited next patch to spend ur 2-3 weeks of currency on ur bis azerite slot
and then have it get nerfed kkona7
strange python
can't wait to quit this game
inner pulsar
Live your life dawg, obviously doing something right
rocky notch
it's pretty close
i have some taloc kills where ditb is close to 3
and mother
sim is saying it should be 3.2
inner pulsar
My only thought is that if it is close in most situations, the tie would probably go to TtK, for those fights where positioning is a problem
But, it is most likely not big enough to worry about
inner pulsar
Alright, gotta go nurse my ass after getting dicked on by @rocky notch like that with his sim. Also try and find some lunch
lone junco
just add sockets to your azerite gear like someone else did. and make the weps 405
wheat zealot
19k sim monkaMega
spice surge
I mean 19k is good to be sure, but not absurd. Simc base profile gets 18.5k with 10 stacks so its like the base profile with 4-5 sockets
The real monkaS is survival hunters sims, the hunter in my guild is close to 21k
desert vault
Are there really groups having rogues use wound poison on mythic feitd?
spice surge
Yeah unless you get to hit the big add you're not really gonna be doing much damage to the adds as assa
desert vault
was just curious, it seemed like a weird strat, I mean I suppose it could work ...
lean coral
i mean ideally you're killing it before it even heals
also warriors and hunters can do the heal reduction as well and not lose dps
proper zealot
Ew, 385 Hood of the Slithering Loa from my weekly Mythic+ cache. Maybe next week I'll get something good. : /
halcyon tulip
is this week 10 for uldir buff?
proper zealot
Mhmm.
spice surge
If you've gotten all of them yes
fresh ginkgo
@marble hemlock in m+ you rather use dice or spyglass if its the same ilvl?
fathoms still sims higher for me in single target tho 😦
marble hemlock
spyglass
buoyant ember
Gdi. Fucking mythic chest fail 4 weeks in a row...
wheat zealot
@spice surge can you link that hunters sim? Thats nutty
spice surge
I dont have it atm, but the default profile for surv is like 20.7k
So its pretty similar to a rogue simming like 19k
inner pulsar
So we are now extending on Mythrax, going to to be a long month
hollow grove
what are the bis trinkets for ass?
lone junco
if they tf super high with socket, they might tie something else
hollow grove
both jusy mthic
lone junco
but I got a tf avoidance socket dice.
desert vault
I dont even think fathoms starts getting beat by dice or spyglass until 375
wheat zealot
380ish
strange python
@inner pulsar Extending is like the dumbest idea
Wouldnt do it unless ure going for world first lol
proper zealot
And even then, look how it turned out. ; )
wheat zealot
Yeah 6 bosses worth of loot is huge for your team
proper zealot
proper zealot
Oh, I meant Limit.
wheat zealot
Obviously its 7 if your on ghuun i was speaking about his situation
proper zealot
Hey, there might be people out there that don't count Taloc or something, I dunno. ; p
wheat zealot
Everyone probably has everything they need off taloc (excluding like a 395 w/ a socket) so he basically doesnt count at this point lol
lavish citrus
extending is also for if your guild is hot garbage with farm and can take an entire week to clear farm :)))
not speaking from experience :)))
wheat zealot
I can relate feelsbadman
proper zealot
I almost feel like Taloc never counted. FeelsBadMan
wheat zealot
Especially when you raid only 5 hours a week
inner pulsar
Sorry about that, had to step away for a moment
lavish citrus
i legit think i've never been a guild that has been in any way efficient when it comes to clearing farm
wheat zealot
Yeah rogues dont get shit off taloc anyway
lavish citrus
gloves are bis for sin im 100% sure
inner pulsar
So yeah, well, we just had a rash of people quit, so we are at 20 exactly
proper zealot
The gloves are nice.
wheat zealot
Yeah thats true
inner pulsar
I think the fear is that we could get stuck in farm
proper zealot
I'm still running 380 gloves that are low Versatility and high Mastery.
Not the best. : /
inner pulsar
But yeah, so we are doing Mythrax, with a 5 melee comp (plus a pally in melee)
tropic rover
For m+ I have 2 SS traits, should I use a 345 piece with the 3rd SS trait or a 375 piece with either fan of blades or scent of blood?
For the 3rd piece
strange python
Id use SS unless ur tank pulls like 6+ mobs
steady hollow
do u guys prefer MP or EP for mythic+ and do u prefer Vigor or MfD for mythic+?:D
just started to get into mythic + today so dont know an awful lot atm
round harbor
anyone else notice u cant skip runecarver skorn anymore in shrine ?
we tried to shroud and he saw me when my pepe was on the wall @marble hemlock
inner pulsar
I always run EP, and Vigor over MfD for M+ for me
outer pier
If simming for m+ only how'd you setup raidbots? HecticCleave 1boss 2min or just go with normal raid-sim and focus ST dps?
steady hollow
thanks @inner pulsar
vestal wren
!m+ @outer pier
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat wights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
zinc furnace
is Azerokk's Resonating Shard a decent trink for M+?
sorry what is the best template to sim M+ environment? Patchwerk, 6 targets, 40s?
weak socket
I think people either do 6 targets or 4 targets. I typically do 4 targets because I encounter more 2-5 target pulls than 5+.
round harbor
azrokks is a good secondary trinket
id recomend having atleast one on use trinket though
ive been running deadeye-spyglass and hardlans and it seems about the same overall dps, but m+ is alot about having dmg at specific points
outer pier
@vestal wren thanks heaps
waxen field
why does haste has to be the best stat ST and the worst stat multitarget
zinc furnace
among the decent ones i have deadeye, galecaller and azerokks. sim says gale+azerok is best, yet by a tiny bit ahead. with tanks moving bosses for no reason, my feelycraft says gale is not better than deadeye...
lone junco
@waxen field because FOK cp gen requires crit. so in aoe, you need crit values to pump out rupture tabs.
waxen field
makes it soo difficult to raid and m+ with optimum stuff when u don't have much equipment
ionic charm
Crit is good for every situation, it’s great for single target, even best stat once you reach a certain haste threshold
cold dragon
Nah, you can have too much crit
cold dragon
I mean, mastery is better for my st for example
lone junco
ha
strange python
I think crit is worth more with TB
cold dragon
I run MA
nimble tartan
buff MA
dense quest
100% for 3s was what made it fun
lone junco
my haste must be up due to not using GCB
ionic charm
If it was 100% chance it would clearly be better than sub though. The fact that it’s marginally better now in some situations at 50 is surprising enough
dense quest
at least you are sure of the crit
lone junco
shoulders were 5s right?
dense quest
right
lone junco
I much rather have BB mut crit.
dense quest
yep
lone junco
75% mut crit all day beats shoulder bombs
lone junco
ss was neat cause nothing crit, and you didnt plan for it. so the rhythm is fixed and slow
interesting that mastery pumps the SS anyway not haste. I was really suprised to see the 1t20s exang at almost 0 haste value
I was messing with short duration for ghuun beam. expected haste on the table.
zealous lily
You can have too much crit ST it drops off pretty hard
lone junco
purely mastery all day
zealous lily
Just not really in m+
lone junco
if your fok gets 5cp, you are good on crit i guess.
but then again, once you have ruptures out and ecap. and fok to 5cp. something needs to dump dps.
lament dove
how is spyglass so good for aoe, I mean you switch targets to put up ruptures and all, but you should attack one target for the buff to stack.. does FoK proc it left and right or something like that?
lone junco
can it proc crit mark on multiple targets at once?
(unlike fathoms that is 1 at a time)
buoyant coyote
when on ghuun do u pop vendetta
i allways have 30 sec before burst is on the way
so feels like im popting it wrong
strange python
@lone junco Do you mean like, when it crits, it crits on all targets?
burnt lagoon
Taloc trinket has been buffed ?
cold dragon
My weights
lone junco
nah. like when you fok one time in a pack of trash, can the crit debuff multiple targets at once.
strange python
Actually no idea
ruby pelican
385 scent of blood or 385 blightborne or 340SS for M+? other pieces are 2x SS
strange python
I'd go with blightborne
cold dragon
Also, I can see why ppl prefer subt with SS, but if you think about it, ur often wasting points from crits
desert vault
my stat weights are so busted up, mastery i think it top and i dunno
echo night
Scent of blood is so op
strange python
Only when you do big pulls honestly
ionic charm
You really can’t go wrong with SoB or BB for m+
desert vault
like the siege I just did, we pulled the entire room on second to last boss and kited it around for ages. SoB on that would have been insane, ruptures galore
strange python
SoB isnt that good if ur pulls are like 3-4
echo night
Doesnt blightborne pull unpulled trash?
strange python
Blightborne doesnt pull
echo night
Or have they fixed it?
strange python
Wasn't it laser matrix that pulled shit
echo night
The wandering soul from BB
ruby pelican
Hm yeah I’ll swap between the two depending on dungeon I guess
ionic charm
I’ve used BB for the past 6 weeks and never had it pull something. Didn’t even realize it actually spawned any units
ruby pelican
Yeah I haven’t noticed either
echo night
Then they must have fixed it or you guys are running low graphs, used to be very feint spirits like the ghosts im kara classic
edgy musk
Hey, I have a general question, what's the best way to open in big aoe pulls? Is it 3x garrote and rupture and FoK>rupture on all targets?
echo night
Get first CT ticking after 3x garrotes before you build up ruptures
warm cove
is it normal that 1x ss + 1 dd is better on st than 2x ss with exang and subterfuge?
glacial steppe
echo night
Depends on the ilvl mate, ss and dd are very close on ST but usually with toxic blade
warm cove
tb is worse for me with any trait
echo night
Is your dd higher than your 2nd ss?
warm cove
first ss is 385, 2nd ss and dd are 370
echo night
Cause first DD might have higher total value than the 2nd SS
But on 3rd ss is where shit really melts xD
warm cove
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3K95kRwonmgFngYHHTouKA they are pretty close though
last time i played sin, ss was the only way to go
it was fun
echo night
Well ss is still bis
jaunty crystal
not too bad. Need some better daggers and a higher galecallers imo
echo night
^
2x ss 1x archive is very strong in m+ tho, but then you need crit/mastery
Haste value is loooow
high wadi
whats the difference in crit/haste vs crit/mastery
echo night
In M+ crit/mastery will skullfuck haste any day
high wadi
everytime i check my stat weights mastery is around bottom
weak socket
Haste gives you more energy over a longer time period, as it increases energy regend. Mastery straight increases your bleed and poison damage.
echo night
Haste is a pure ST stat imo
weak socket
So since the fights are shorter in M+
You want mastery and crit to emphasis burst of power
safe matrix
haste increases bleed tick rate, so more energy returns there and it increases your energy regen rate.
in AoE you have multiple bleeds out so you have a ton of energy
and haste loses its primary purpose
quick fog
That time when I get a 370 GCB and it's still not simming better than a 355 socketed Dead-Eye Spyglass 🤔
warm cove
:0 365 gcb better than 360 socket spyglass for me on sin
quick fog
Just redid my stat weights. Crit is currently over haste
rough agate
yeah 355gcb better than my 375 dead eye
quick fog
I simmed both TB and X
echo night
Just remember to sim unbuffed
weak socket
TB sims higher than Exsang for me in every scenario when I've simmed it, both raid and M+.
echo night
For M+
rough agate
how do you sim for m+
quick fog
3-6 targets, unbuffed 40sec
echo night
Buffs
weak socket
I've simmed 4 targets 40 sec unbuffed
rough agate
thanks
solid nova
I believe we have
proper zealot
Zero bugga. 😄
solid nova
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat wights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
echo night
Smartphone autocorrect xD
weak socket
Fucking Richard, always dropping knowledge bombs and shit...
echo night
0 bugga<3
solid nova
It's new 😏
safe matrix
@vestal wren mispelled weights as "wights" in the m+ command
high wadi
gcb?
weak socket
Haha. Yeah. I saw it and looked at it... I'm kinda confused about how it works better than the previous methods. Is there an explanation?
solid nova
mythicplus and mythic+ will also work
echo night
Sooo, where do i paste this xD?
echo night
Oh
solid nova
The video below which says "How to use it" 😄
echo night
Haha didnt see
weak socket
Liavre, does the video explain how it's more accurate than the patchwerk 4-6 target 40seconds method that it seemed like everyone was using?
vestal wren
should be fixed now
strange python
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
lone junco
until it works with top gear, massive meh.
spice surge
I mean, you can get it to work if you copy the simc input from topgear and do it together but
rough agate
I must be doing this wrong, its telling me the ST stat weights still
hard cove
for m+ should i run gcb or spyglass ?
i have both at 370 atm
running fathoms as my second
vestal wren
@lone junco maybe soon 😉
supple matrix
For m+ when you sim you can set it to hectic and cleave for 1 min and get decent stat weights
Hectic add cleave
hard cove
ok thanks 😃 fathoms still our best trinket atm for aoe and single target ?
or are there better trinkets i should be aiming to replace it with for m+ ?
safe matrix
not AoE
supple matrix
Gcb is strong for ST most times for add cleave I'd suggest spyglass and dice
karmic ingot
@tidal jetty at what point during a pull do you typically use GCB in M+?
tidal jetty
when ive got dots up
hard cove
ofc
supple matrix
Gcb is good this week for tyrannical
hard cove
and once youve dotted everything up
spice surge
Typically better to run procc trinkets for m+ as aoe burst isnt something assa is good at
tidal jetty
its even better fro fortified imo
karmic ingot
So you wait til you have a few ruptures out before hitting it then?
hard cove
yeah usually
spice surge
But then you dont need energy anymore
hard cove
or atleast thats how ive been using it on trash pulls
spice surge
So whats the point
brisk raptor
it only has 1min cd so feel free to use it on big pulls
hard cove
more damage from faster ticks
spice surge
When you could just use a trinket with a better on-use
tidal jetty
you dont use 20% haste for energy tho
spice surge
That gives more damage
hard cove
so thats the point @spice surge
spice surge
But then something with crit or mastery would be better
supple matrix
Personally I use dice/dooms wake or dice/fathoms both seem to work well
hard cove
with the added bonus of still being decent on trash pulls if u use it correctly
supple matrix
Habent gotten a spyglass yet tho
hard cove
i have a 370 spyglass atm
tidal jetty
guess wake or spyglass might be better for aoe, but i still think gcb is very strong
karmic ingot
Rupture is usually a large portion of my overall damage in M+ so getting more ticks makes sense. How many good crit/mastery on use items are there to use instead?
hard cove
i mostly just use it for outlaw and sub
may think about using it for assassination since i lack crit for m+
rolling 19% crit and 21% haste + mastery atm
karmic ingot
I do have a good Doom’s Wake I can use, but I like the shorter CD on GCB.
supple matrix
Wake is generally trash for aoe it's best use is ST nuking but the mastery it's got is a nice poison/bleed boost
loud kelp
guys for rupture, i should always aim 5 cp, or just like envenom , if possible 5 , but wont spend another multilte to get 4 to 5
karmic ingot
Agi is also good for poison/bleed and you get lots of poison/bleed in AoE. Your statements kinda contradict each other.
brisk raptor
you can spend it on 3 as well if they wont live long
spice surge
Rupture doesnt do more damage with higher cp
loud kelp
i mean in boss bights
spice surge
Just duration
loud kelp
oh, ok
brisk raptor
exactly
loud kelp
fights*
hard cove
on boss fights youll be maintaining it anyway so wether its 4 or 5 cp it doesnt matter
aslong as your keeping it up thats the main thing
loud kelp
yeah, i figured
hard cove
i cant work how why im simming lower than alot of people ive seen
karmic ingot
Probably sockets.
hard cove
375 eq atm and simming around 16.5k
karmic ingot
It’s always fucking sockets.
hard cove
and ive seen people my ilvl simming almost 18k
brisk raptor
simming with bl buffs etc? or what is the standard?
supple matrix
I had a 330 ring swimming higher than any 370 I was getting for the longest cause socket
supple matrix
Took a 375 to replace it
brisk raptor
I see
hard cove
so sockets are really that valuable to us ?
supple matrix
Hate autocorrect
rough agate
I sim for 16.5k too also 375 ilvl D:
brisk raptor
for haste/crit yea
hard cove
coz i have some gear that doesnt have haste but has sockets
and its around 5ilvls lower than the haste piece i have equipped
would it be worth losing 5 ilvls + haste for the socket ?
brisk raptor
is there any way to add sockets tho?
spice surge
Almost certainly, depending on what piece it is
hard cove
my pawn string says its a 1% upgrade but im ont sure
spice surge
But thats why you sim
hard cove
when i sim best gear its telling me to use what i have equipped and not the socket piece though
thats what im confused about
although when i put the pawn string in thats telling me its a 1% upgrade
spice surge
Cloaks/Bracers/Rings are basicly all -20 ilvl if they dont have a socket
Or rather, the sockets are worth like 20 ilvls
spice surge
If it doesnt sim higher its not better
hard cove
gloves are like 90 ish haste and a bit of versa
the ones with socket are versa master gloves
and crit versa boots
brisk raptor
on warcraftlogs what ilvl%/parse% you get? I mean my char is 365 but I get the shttiest %’s Ive ever seen
spice surge
But other people could have sockets in the same slots which would give them more damage
solid nova
Aslong as you're simming with a gem in the socket it'll be accurate
hard cove
i usually sim it with haste gems in the sockets
so 16.5k is about average for my ilvl then it seems ?
i felt like that was super low after seeing so many at almost 18k xD
supple matrix
My rogue is 368 atm and sims for 17k+ in raid with bluffs need to work on rotation tho cause I'm not pulling it yet
spice surge
ilvl isnt a good indicatior of damage
hard cove
this guy 7 ilvls lower than me simming higher 😦
ok so somethings wrong with my rogue then
heavy trail
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: https://pastebin.com/sggpE4Km
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/929ww.
hard cove
could be traits tbh
supple matrix
Andy I got a few pieces with sockets tho
hard cove
ive got pretty trash traits i feel like
brisk raptor
what traits you have?
hard cove
using 1 archive 1 poison wire and 1 DD
they are the ones that sim the best out of what i have currently
supple matrix
I'm running 1 SS 1 DD and 1 LM but hoping I can replace the LM with archive off M Vectis
hard cove
i dont get the chance to go mythic xD
guild has 4 rogues
of which im the lowest ilvl xD
supple matrix
I'm the 2nd rogue in guild technically I cleared 2/8 at 355 ilvl
hard cove
currently just a zul bot in my guild but i dont mind so much this tiers pretty boring
supple matrix
My necks 28 already and not revered yet
hard cove
same here xD
3k off revered i rerolled from main tank half way through the tier
got bored of tanking after 13 years
supple matrix
I trolled off feral
brisk raptor
what do you guys using for sim? simulationcraft/raidbots/etc?
spice surge
Raidbots is simc
brisk raptor
I see
hard cove
according to best gear DD sims 0.8% higher than my SS chest piece
both the same ilvl
so for me i guess its not worth using SS
hard cove
yeah DD isnt that bad xD
just took me a while to get used to the new opener was lucky enough for one of my first pieces to be SS xD
so was using the SS opener from the start
im guessing since i dont use SS i should run master assassin right ?
pairs pretty well with my poison wire i feel like coz usually after the opening garrote my first mutilate gives me max combo points
meaning my opener is pretty much garrote mutilate rupture most of the time xd
supple matrix
@hard cove Andy how many stacks of RA you got
hard cove
6
brisk raptor
I’d say MA for sure if you dont have SS
let me know your thought about Construct overcharger
just got a 395 one..
supple matrix
Yea I'm just bout to hit 5 this week
hard cove
whats your stats sitting at @supple matrix
supple matrix
Look up Moumokuyuki-Illidan
winter gale
Is it better to sit at 19%,20% haste than 15% I have a ring that sims better for me but it makes me have 15% haste and I can somehow feel it while playing in haste regen.
?*
supple matrix
I'm still sitting on a 345 offhand weapon tho
runic oyster
Whats our BiS trinkets for mythic raiding?
supple matrix
Dice and fathoms
brisk raptor
or you can replace dice with GCB
brisk raptor
2x use trinket is a waste
supple matrix
Yea one sec tho Andy got a customer
winter gale
Can anyone help me with my question ? 😄
hardy veldt
Just sum yourself to see what’s best
What was your question @winter gale
Oh I found it
winter gale
Close up
hardy veldt
Always sim yourself brother. Hard to say what’s best, because there are many factors that go into it
hard cove
if it sims better it generally means it will be a dps increase ohandza
winter gale
item itself is 4% upgrade
winter gale
Dps is 0.0%
hardy veldt
One stat priority might be best with a certain set of traits and trinkets but change at another I’ll
hard cove
or continue to stack more haste ?
brisk raptor
there is nothing like haste cap
hardy veldt
Use raidbots to get stat weights
brisk raptor
always sim it, thats the way
hard cove
ja i do xD but im new to simming i played tank for 13 years bro xD
raven scaffold
@brisk raptor got a 395 construct too..
winter gale
I will stick to more haste ring
hard cove
i dont trust a program hence why im double checking
brisk raptor
@raven scaffold what do you think about it? 😄
winter gale
Since RA will build haste
buoyant kraken
Subterfuge or master assassin? I sim like 400 dps higher with MA and dagger in the back than subterfuge and shrouded. But every top log uses subterfuge??
brisk raptor
weeeeee
hardy veldt
Also depends on what you’re looking for. 5 min one target vs m+ sims and so on
ebon bramble
Just you know 2 months after....
hardy veldt
Did it? Link to the buff?
ebon bramble
Test it out
brisk raptor
I'd say master assassin for raiding tho
hard cove
i use MA for raiding and i do feel a dps increase
civic palm
Not in any official sense.
hard cove
but there are some bosses where SS + subterfuge will be stronger
vectis being one of those bosses
brisk raptor
for pure ST, MA is worth
hardy veldt
@ebon bramble have a link for that? I’d like to see change
buoyant kraken
How come like 95% of top logs use subterfuge then? Is it simply because of the major dps loss if you dont crit in MA?
brisk raptor
it can be caused by higher mastery as well
lone junco
depends on the fight and their traits. lots of fights with adds will see 1+ ss and subterfuge.
brisk raptor
more mastery -> sub is worth more -> exsg is worth more also
hardy veldt
@buoyant kraken any fight in particular you’re looking at?
brisk raptor
more crit means MA is more effective which means TB is better as well
raven scaffold
@ebon bramble link please
brisk raptor
just weight your stats
lone junco
any fight with adds worth attacking gets vanish subterfuge garrotes.
brisk raptor
of course
buoyant kraken
Lets say taloc. I sim 19k with MA/Dagger and 18.6k with subter/ss. And i feel like im missing something, cus the people doing top logs surely sim high with MA aswell
and all i see is Subterfuge
hard cove
maybe those people just prefer subterfuge ?
buoyant kraken
It might be because you are screwed if you dont crit on your envenom during MA?
hard cove
i know one of the rogues in my guild swears by subterfuge
strange python
They play subter because most of them have SS traits
brisk raptor
^
buoyant kraken
Top loggers rarely play what they prefer, and often play whats better
strange python
hardy veldt
I’m pretty sure that ditb assumes constant uptime and always behind their back
buoyant kraken
well you dont have much downtime on taloc, other than intermission, which subterfuge also loses out on
brisk raptor
maybe their stats are more weighted on mastery/haste then crit
hardy veldt
Look at the traits for the ma guys
They have big on use trinkets too
They are looking for big numbers, not the steady quick ticks
trim nebula
for mythic plus what is a good opener for mob pulls
hardy veldt
Probably has something to do with fight length as well
@trim nebula garrote, garrote, garrote into ct.
trim nebula
with ss?
strange python
Yes
hardy veldt
Then multi dot ruptures with fok
brisk raptor
ofc
hardy veldt
Yes
strange python
Or 3x garrote into rupture if u need extra energy / 3-4 targets
hardy veldt
Don’t reapply garrotes after they fall off
strange python
Reapply to main target
strange python
Same just because I dont run CT
brisk raptor
same same
raven scaffold
should i go crit mastery to m+ or stay with crithaste
hardy veldt
And fight length matters too. Dump cp in something else if they won’t live full rupture duration
strange python
general stat weights: crit>mast>haste>=vers
brisk raptor
AoE its crit mastery
frozen karma
I’ve seen people talking about trinket buffs but I don’t see anything on WoWhead
hardy veldt
Those are stat weight for m+ yeah
I can’t find anything either around
But I kept one in inventory. Because I heard buff was inc a few weeks ago
frozen karma
Yeah I’ve got a 370 I think
But even if it was buffed I’m not sure it’ll change anything
frozen karma
Fathoms/galecallers probly gonna be stronger still
I’d happily drop fathoms tbh lol
frozen karma
Its just so good haha
brisk raptor
I got a 395 one
but I realised
check it
it gave 42haste 8 times
if I am correct
raven scaffold
63 haste on 395
hardy veldt
So it did get a buff? Or you remembered the number wrong
frozen karma
It could be like 12k like it could be 15k
strange python
You could be 365 with 385 azerite pieces and be at 18k
Or you could have unlucky 370 pieces and be at 16k
primal gazelle
365 ilvl at 18k is a bit far fetched lol
hardy veldt
I’m at 16k at 371 I believe.
brisk raptor
hmmm I see
hardy veldt
Low ra stacks and poor azerite traits, but not bad on sockets
frozen karma
Sims are important cuz every needs different stuff
I see everyone talking how double dose is op but somehow when I replace some of my traits for it lose dps
hardy veldt
Completely depends on the content as well. I don’t like dd in 3s for example. Also it’s useless in m+
So yeah you need to make sure your tailor sim to what you want to do as well
frozen karma
My current setup is archive, sharpened blades and swirling sands but if I sim DD over any of them I lose like 1% dps
strange python
Same ilvl?
frozen karma
Yeah
strange python
Specced into Master assassin and toxic blade?
hardy veldt
I keep three pawn strings. One for raid st. One m+ and one generic one for pvp (just stat priorities)
spice surge
Sounds like you made an error elsewhere anyway. DD should sim higher regardless of talent setups
hardy veldt
@frozen karma have you reviewed your apl string for casts?
spice surge
Assuming same ilvl
hardy veldt
Unless his sim is doing something fishy, yeah
strange python
But other traits, it should yes
spice surge
Ofc
frozen karma
Archive ofc not but others its weird
steady hollow
whats the fastest dungeon to try get a M+ 7/8 clear before reset?
hardy veldt
It’ll outsim second archive sometimes
strange python
Yes
frozen karma
Maybe its the tier 2 trait shifting it in favor of lesser tier 3 ones
hardy veldt
Freehold is super quick
strange python
But it wont outsim a single matrix/archive
hardy veldt
Tol is easy too
steady hollow
tyty
brisk raptor
or Siege
hardy veldt
They have the perks of dropping dice and daggers respectively as well
frozen karma
So master assassin is the go to now?
frozen karma
Alright, I’ll give it a shot once I’m home
quaint sequoia
runic oyster
is this with buffs?
limpid schooner
Can you guys help me with trinkets selection, sims are so close together but pracital side of view ? - Boon 360 / Doom's wake 385 / Darkmoon 355 ?
strange python
I'd go darkmoon + Dooms / Darkmoon + Gale IF exsang
primal gazelle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/doEbi5u6WJWmhE1MDopTY5
MA sims 1 dps difference from SS, just tried MA for a few bosses in heroics, i dont really like it because if you dont crit during your MA due to bad luck... you pretty much just wasted a talent. SS is more consistent
limpid schooner
i am using TB, so Dooms + Darkmoon should work right
limpid schooner
so I should delay that Doom for every Vendetta ?
strange python
Isnt doom 2 minute cd
brisk raptor
they have the same CD I think
strange python
With 20 sec uptime
limpid schooner
doom 2, vendetta 3 nah ?
hardy veldt
just macro them together and never think about it again ❤
limpid schooner
right, I'm bad 😄 you're right, I was just using boon before, so I always knew it has 1 minute longer CD than my trink 😄
Ty guys for help !
hardy veldt
construct was buffed 100%. wowhead shows ilvl 370 is 38 haste per stack. live shows 57 ea
thats a 50% bugg
buff*
hardy veldt
it wont show on sim until raidbots is updated right?
brisk raptor
yea I am sure about it
hardy veldt
im gonna park myself on a target dummy to check for a bit
ebon bramble
385 shows 60 right now
hardy veldt
it had an 8 RPPM trigger, that will grant additional Haste for 10 seconds, stacking up to 8 times.
dark crag
My 390 is in the nether
ebon bramble
not much of a buff since you cant 8 stack it all the time
wish they buffed proc rate or duration
hardy veldt
theres no way 396 shows 63. you sure?
hardy veldt
my 8 stack hasnt fallen off yet
brisk raptor
its like constant 8stacks
just need some time to build up
but with your opening burst you'll get like 4 out of 8
ebon bramble
i guess haste does increase PPM
brisk raptor
lemme check it
hardy veldt
see i read that a different way
brisk raptor
gotta autoattack a dummy
ebon bramble
damn i would not say no to 480 haste now
hardy veldt
can i mutilate without starting auto attacks?
dark crag
You can try to turn sideways
hardy veldt
i did the sideways thin
brisk raptor
reached 8stacks in like 15secs tho..
hardy veldt
it 100% works on abilities
ill give it a 2 min normal combat rotation, to see how it ends up
dark crag
And i sold my 390 construct
dark crag
I hope i can use item restoration
ebon bramble
item restore go
brisk raptor
its pretty RNG
to stack it
sometimes is falls off on 1stack
sometimes its falling on 8
hardy veldt
i just did a 3m damage pull on a dummp
looks like it only reached 8 stacks twice unfornuately
lost sentinel
I know it's been asked 100s of times, but I only got a second before starting m+: crimson tempest or poison bomb this week w/ tyrannical?
drifting elbow
CT usage is directly tied to how fast/how big pulls u do
safe matrix
pb on kr/temple CT on rest typically
unless your group pulls small, then pb is better
lost sentinel
hmm, doing underrot, think they wanna pull big so I guess I'll got CT
lone junco
👍
ebon bramble
Blindside Exploits the vulnerability of foes with less than 30%35% health, dealing (60% of Attack power) Physical damage to the target.
lulz
strange python
sooo my stat weights say I need haste but I have a fuck ton already...
frozen karma
when I'm simming an azerite piece do I enter both the +5 of the piece and the empowered on raidbots?
undone sandal
frozen karma
Idk swirling sands is so strong for me, whatever combination I try without it just doesn't work
nimble tartan
crit's hot
frozen karma
I guess I'm in a breakpoint where when I get the proc it's super good for me?
echo cargo
So did construct overcharger actually get buffed?
amber trench
yes, the changes show up in dungeon journal, you can look at it there
echo cargo
construct + dice now o_O?
brisk raptor
well construct is still not one of the bests
amber trench
i think they may have buffed the proc rate also, or made it so it scaled with haste
i had 85% uptime on a 5minute test on a dummy
spice surge
How much did it get buffed by?
amber trench
50%
brisk raptor
im doing OK with construct+GCB
amber trench
amber trench
last time i used it uptime avg'd around 60-70%
spice surge
Simc seem to have it at around 80-85% aswell
Lets assume you average around 4 stacks, then thats like 80 more haste over the entire fight? So basicly 2 more sockets
Not too bad
amber trench
decent boost
i think for most around 375+ it's prob worth 150+ dps?
i could see it jumping up into the top 10
brisk raptor
might be possible
spice surge
Yeah +150 dps on the trinket on herodamage puts it slightly below dice. I also simmed and a 385 (with 2 additional sockets) simmed pretty identical to my 375 dice
So still prob not better than dice, but better than most things
wise mortar
Awesome! I have an 890 one sitting in my bags
weary arrow
How does the opener change (uldir raid) if I’m now using 2xdouble dose and 1 archive? (Was previously using 1 SS 1 archive 1 twist knife). Should I be using MA over sub talent? With SS and sub talent I was garrote->rup->garrote opening
vocal harbor
are you supposed to delay second vendetta until vanish is back up?
spice surge
Yes
vocal harbor
ty
spice surge
@weary arrow Sim to find which talent sims the highest of MA and Sub and then look at the guide for the opener for those setups
spice surge
Simc prob isnt updated
echo cargo
it's not
sick monolith
They need to buff the Overcharger that shit is hot trash
spice surge
Like they just did by 50%? 😉
dusky tinsel
Sorry if this is a dumb question, haven't played with MA at all this expansion, when is the best time to vanish when not using subterfuge? Couldn't find it specifically in the guide
Master Assassin specifically
strange python
Its in the guide
dusky tinsel
oh derp, yeah I see it
velvet kernel
So it did get updated
dusky tinsel
I was reading from the "no SS" section, my fault, ty
velvet kernel
well i would Garrote mutilate rupture vendetta mutilate toxic blade vanish envenom
austere scarab
dusky tinsel
always the chance though of mutilate procking 4cp though, and TB gets it on CD faster
strange python
Nyuro Ive simmed that
velvet kernel
like you dont get full tb benifit
velvet kernel
well its what i see other ppl doing / what i do
is it 20 dps up or down?
my way?
strange python
I think it was 20 up
velvet kernel
so you might aswell lol
velvet kernel
who does not like more dps 😄
primal quest
Guttripper / OP / Heed My Call for big pulls in M+ ?
which one pulls the most ahead
digital moss
So what did they buffed in Construct Overcharger trinket?
wary escarp
Hello, I'm trying to understand the new change to Shrouded Suffocation coming in 8.1 but the formula just seems way too op so I'm asking for help in case I'm doing something wrong?
So this is the formula [210 * (1.27 * (1 + Versatility) * 1.14)] and if we assume the user has 300 versatility I end up with which is 91.5k which seems impossible?
for reference
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=278666/shrouded-suffocation
spice surge
Its % vers not absolute numbers
But also, its not a change
Its just an update to the tooltip to reflect that it actually scales (which it already does)
wary escarp
ohhhhhh
that makes so much sense lol
the second part that you're saying are you sure?
ohh I see what you mean
spice surge
If you calculate it you get roughly the numbers it is already doing. Besides, They're hardly gonna buff a trait they previously nerfed by like 50%
wary escarp
so the tooltip is not reflecting the real dmg?
spice surge
Currently no
paper bough
can cloak be used on zuls deathwish?
wary escarp
so to find out the real dmg I'm doing I jsut plug in 0.04(I got 4% versatility) and I know how much it is really doing?
amber arrow
@paper bough u can precast cloak and if it goes on u itll be immune'd
signal mason
is clipping elaborate planning ideal? or do we ignore that, allowing it to passively do it's job and focus on envenom uptime?
crisp hollow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/babH9UiJawD6GUKmReLkU2 Can't break 19k fml
pastel wasp
Is there a link to confirm construct trinket buff
digital moss
When should I do use Dooms Wake
vapid moth
@digital moss it's a 2min CD right?
brisk raptor
macroed with vendetta
vapid moth
Yeah ^
digital moss
thanks
shadow pivot
theres no patchnotes or anything about taloc trinket buff? cant seem to find infos anywhere , just wondering if its the only tweaked item
normal cedar
https://www.wowhead.com/item=160652/construct-overcharger&bonus=4798:1477 says 33 @340ilvl ingame says 49 @340ilvl
midnight carbon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
echo cargo
Blindside PTR buff o_o
rocky notch
so like 45% more haste
rocky notch
im looking at the 385 going from 41 to 60
quick ice
if you want to test the construct overcharger buff before raidbots nightly updates, the following override works in advanced mode
override.spell_data=effect.733573.coefficient=0.172950
plain cairn
placid elbow
There was a buff to Construct?
brisk raptor
yeye
civic palm
Proof of buff?
brisk raptor
our words
civic palm
Proof of buff.
civic palm
Screenshots?
vocal harbor
something seems off here
onyx falcon
placid elbow
lol
Blizz like " Let's just put random shit here to make rogues feel like we're working on them "
mmm
my 385 construct is uhhh performing decently in dummy dps lol
cosmic mesa
what artifact trait to put into [Jerkin of the Aberrant Chimera]
cosmic mesa
I have archive in my shoulders