But you can sim that
#assassination
lone junco
Funny to mut in cleave due to dd. But to not use env for the first 15 sec due to tab ruptures.
But the apl for cleave was probably written for 5min where your ruptures are up and env is weaved.
fresh ginkgo
yea dd feels pretty bad in m+
icy dock
my question was more like is it worth just for the mainstat 340 => 370 worth
the trait would be anyhint but scent or ss
fresh ginkgo
but i dont like using 340 ss in m+ either
icy dock
from 340 to 370
wild gyro
No Sinlay
wild gyro
Gotta sim yourself for that @icy dock
But I’m guessing no
I use 3xSS 385
So I’m bias
fresh ginkgo
lol
fresh ginkgo
archives isnt bad either
icy dock
ye sure
fresh ginkgo
if youre not lucky with weekly chest
wild gyro
scent/ss/arch is great
icy dock
i have 2 x 340 ss and 370 dd and 370 TB so it would prob not be worth
icy dock
thanks @wild gyro ! 😃
fresh ginkgo
also for 8.1 with the new traits do we have to farm new azerite gear because of the new ring?
or old equips will have the new rings included?
wild gyro
All good @icy dock
muted jacinth
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aWUEc4BcVfiXzAMryM8sS3
@cerulean depot big meme
cobalt gyro
jesus you have a lot of sockets
cerulean depot
Hey. im missing 3 sockets still
muted jacinth
it's fake xd
hardy magnet
is it worth swapping out a 370 azerite piece for a 340 if it has ss on it?
oak tangle
what traits do you have at the moment sin
lost horizon
@muted jacinth no lie, I got baited by that sim pretty bad
crisp hollow
vapid moth
@hardy magnet get a 385 piece like I did so you dont even have to ask lmao
lone junco
@muted jacinth surprised you didnt give yourself a 385 socket fathoms
muted jacinth
coulda been 400 yanno for the lols. but yeah
I simmed a 500 ilvl dagger and gained 5k dps
couldn't tell by the azerite with sockets @lost horizon?
lost horizon
I didn't click the link tbh
muted jacinth
I was meme'ing someone for believing the wowheads best in slot gear list
the list includes a 385 galecallers and dice but still uses uldir crit vers belt. like wut. might as well include the belt from kings rest while we're at it right for a "real" bis. so I ended up making a full crit haste set
balmy perch
i just got a dooms wake
now i figure out what to replace it with
or to even use it
steep obsidian
its most definitely not bad but what that guy said
i like it instead of galecallers sometimes coz of tanks that like to run around everywhere
ruby pelican
yeah I run ct
balmy perch
i think i am addicted to exsang
ruby pelican
the +62 base AGI makes it worth it?
steep obsidian
if you want exact answers 
wed all be guessing
you can sim multi target 40 secs without buffs to sim trash
alpine pelican
Should I be envenoming with only 4 combo points in toxic blade/at all?
or build to 5
sorry
signal mason
Don't mut if you're at 4
coarse knot
alpine pelican
thanks
steep obsidian
hello new guy
steep obsidian
did you repeat "do you need?" over and over
tropic pike
prisma sail
looking for pointers on H Zul, I've seen rogues be extremely high here, any changes in the normal raiding spec?
midnight belfry
Is using EP buff on your next envenom more important than getting extra time from envenoms buff?
sick monolith
trying to get doom's wake and i got diretooth spaulders. Welp boys time to go outlaw
shell zealot
@prisma sail Main target zul, add full rupture on the Crusher, and then focus zul, make sure to help CC the Hexer if u guys not CC both, idea with rogue DPS is to be relentless and always DMG, even when dodging mechanics
dont ever count dmg on a wipe(unless its under 5%)
rare garden
2 hours later im still a little steamed about that trinket. i hate this expansion
feral shuttle
Hi all - Anyone got any tips for me? I really feel like I'm not getting the most out of my spec - feel like I'm doing something REALLY basic wrong (stat weights, azurite traits, opener) but I can't pin down exactly what it is. Here are some logs from our latest progression raid, mythic Vectis. Anyone got any thoughts? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/THBhL3WNYawcjfxp/#boss=2134&difficulty=5&wipes=1&type=damage-done&source=19
spice surge
You really should get SS traits if you're playing exsang. Either that or dont play exsang at all
feral shuttle
Sorry for ignorance - SS traits? Shrouded suffocation?
spice surge
And some other things too:
- Your uptimes of rupture and garrote (during non-intermission phases) are at best like 85%, whereas they should be atleast 95%, preferably over 98%
- Why are you casting so many poison knives?
Yes
feral shuttle
Okay - thanks man, uptime is for sure something I can work on...I think the knives were just when I was out of range of the boss (which is a raid positioning thing - I shouldn't ever be out of range)
I've got a few pieces with SS - I'll try changing them around and playing with which talent is best - thanks for the help.
spice surge
Look at the guide in the pins for the opener as well
Yours is just odd
Especially cheap shot, which doesnt actually do anything
feral shuttle
Yeah - I think I fat-fingered that one 😛
spice surge
7 times? 🤔 But yes, stop using cheap shot, and also try to have full bleeds up on the target when you exsang
feral shuttle
Hmm...Maybe I just suck then 😛
rare garden
if you're fat fingering cheap shot that often you should unbind cheap shot
feral shuttle
Agreed. It's a carry over from binds when I was playing outlaw I think, shitty muscle memory
midnight belfry
is it more important to use another envenom with EP still up or to get max time out of the envenom buff?
marble hemlock
envenom pandemics, so you pretty much always get full value out of it anyway, so you want to clip during the last 0.1-0.2sec of EP to benefit from the 10% damage increase
drifting elbow
well its not as if u can do that constantly with energy not keeping up with spent abilities
midnight belfry
Thanks
blissful cosmos
380 dice or 370 spyglass for m+?
somber moon
Dice
drifting elbow
its not that big difference enough for that decision to matter in the end, mclov
u may aswell use normal rotation instead of acting specific moments differently for such small gains in dps
u can minmax the rotation called pooling for TB duration with envenoms if u really wanted to minmax
i dont typically make it in time for extra envenom inside TB anyway
hard to minmax when globals make small seconds really hard to benefict
raven mica
Wait I thought EP applied before finisher damage occurs
hard crow
so i have 385 shoulders with SS, 370 chest with SS and 370 head with SS or 385 head with SoB trait
i'm never raiding
just doing M+
should i go with 3 SS or 2 SS and scent of blood is better
mighty yew
does anyone have a filter for warcraftlogs to check amount of envenoms into TB debuff?
spice surge
If you press the TB button to the right "Target Auras Filter"
You get all casts done to a target with TB on them and you can compare. You can also (after you've done that first part) press envenom and then up to the right press events and you can see it pretty clearly
mighty yew
cheers
vale helm
@hard crow I would run the highest ilvl pieces in your case. But sim to be sure (so 2x SS + SoB)
shy escarp
3x SS actually simmed better for me with a 360 helm over a 385 SoB helm. But I also have a ton of mastery so it depends on the rest of your gear
shy escarp
i'm pretty sure it's all bleed and poison damage
shy escarp
that's sub
zinc furnace
what is the best place to shroud in ToS?
rocky notch
you can double shroud from the front and get to the last pack on left side
marble hemlock
in Temple you wanna shroud the 2 packs on the stairs on the left, as well as the infested nimbus/patrolling stormscaller after the first "minigame" after 2nd boss
upper island
for temple, you just dont want to run it
if you HAVE to run that pile of shit dungeon, bring a druid for the orb room, you can mount him out of combat and grab the orbs while he continues to move at full speed
sterile flax
shaman can also carry the orbs in wolf form ^
upper island
oh yeah! I kind of like the idea of having classes be better in specific dungeons until it gets to the 10+ region and your pool of players that are capable and willing shrinks drastically
marble hemlock
which is the preferable way of doing it
since the orb guardians are only running towards the orb while a player is carrying it, or while the orb is on the ground
as long as the orb is mid-air after a throw, guardians actually chase the target they have aggro on
so tank should just pull the guardians (they have specific spots where they are asleep while stealthed until an orb gets 15y or closer to their position)
and then you quickly throw the orb towards the skull and open it
clear harbor
guys do you use crimson this week in every dung but kingsrest?
clear harbor
how do you fit it in your opener? just apply it before you exang?
lean coral
i usually triple garrote tempest
versed finch
And when running exsang and gcb u always boon before exsang right?
Cause it doesnt apply if you do it after is what I think I've read here before
lean coral
yeah if the tanks not kiting
i dont really use galecallers in dungeons personally
i use dice and w/e the trinket from kings rest was called
versed finch
I guess I could swap it to fathoms for dungeons
pearl meteor
It snapshots, always use b4
lean coral
its also cause im an unlucky fucker and never got a galecallers above 355IL
versed finch
Even if I leave aura as long as I'm in it when I exsang it should be there for the duration right?
lean coral
all my other shit is 370+
pearl meteor
Yes
zinc zephyr
finally ❤
spring iron
Can someone help me? My sim seems to still be low for my ilvl.... https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mVZ49qNARdEQYcYjgK6guF
gusty yoke
he does have the trait in helm
strange python
no array
Its better if you pick Sharpened Blades on your chest and shoulders 😃
Construct Overcharger is garbage
Also same enchants on both weapons
😬
gusty yoke
i mentioned that already 
strange python
Well
gusty yoke
also he does have the trait in 370 helm so i assume he forgot to enable it
spring iron
I picked these but they don’t always update right away
If I was at my desk, I’d show what I have live.
spring iron
I’ll double check
strange python
strange python
yeah I know
spring iron
and that's about the best I have so far?
spring iron
as far as traits on that piece are
spring iron
the only other 370 helm I have is the Blood Bog Headcover
228 armor
543 agi
960 Stam
On that piece, I am running Twist the knife, Heed my call, and Impassive Vissage.
so rings should be double haste?
double Pact of haste?
gusty yoke
strange python
👆
spring iron
I..... don't know how..... embarassed
spring iron
extra embarassed
spice surge
😉
supple hearth
@spring iron the benefit of the enchants on ur weapons don't stack so it's best to use two different ones (usually haste/crit ) rather than two of the same enchant and not getting the full benefits of ur second enchant
spring iron
so generally always deadly/quick?
and then @supple hearth can I stack haste enchants on rings?
or rather.... SHOULD i?
copper grail
Anyone who can give advice or something within pvp? Want to try rerolling from sub since assa seems way better?
tidal sedge
Is 20% a good haste cap for m+
balmy perch
anyone else watching the mdi?
tropic rover
Anyone know what traits/talents the assassin rogue is running in the mdi?
It looks like he's running CT but I can't tell
supple hearth
@tropic rover CT
balmy perch
ya
he is using 3ss exsang CT
intresting that he has no haste gear at all
all crit mastery
gusty yoke
mfw people watch mdi while you can watch speed do +20's
strange python
MDI plebs struggling on +13s
tropic rover
Where are you guys seeing the teams specs? Or are they popping up in stream periodically?
balmy perch
i have something on stream that says inspect
and if you click it it shows everyenes gear//talents
vagrant tundra
random question (sorry if it's dumb:(): is it worth downgrading 370 azerite pieces to a 340 ones with SS for M+ (like +8-10)
strange python
Depends what azerite piece
vagrant tundra
pieces with DD/AotC and poisened wire
vagrant tundra
ok that does sound logical
tropic rover
Yeah I saw, was looking on mobile but I swapped to desktop and I could see everything
round harbor
anyone watching mdi allstars?
the inspect tool is showing musclkebrah using the first dance shoulders
as assasin
round harbor
thats a big OOF
rare garden
im really hoping one of these teams gets the orb glitch
marble hemlock
dont forget the classic CT build in temple
which is literally the only dungeon where you absolutely do not want to play CT
marble hemlock
KR is kind of a mixed bag, but PB definitely has its place there
im still playing CT on forti weeks in KR tho
marble hemlock
trash before first boss, 2/4 miniboss packs, and blob-pad
depending on how you play bridge its nice there aswell
strange python
Berserkers are scary bruh
marble hemlock
its basically a question of whether you want some more dps on those hard trashpacks, or more damage on bosses
strange python
I mean, bosses are pretty easy on KR on forti week
round harbor
i cant believe he did that
lol
i can see Ct on explosive maybe though
doesnt help much on the orbs, but the initial hit does a bit
marble hemlock
CT doesnt hit explosive
its literally for padding on the orb-event
you could claim that its because theyre pulling bigger pulls for MDI, so CT actually has value, but hes been playing CT on live too so 🤷
strange python
Yeah no aoe works on orbs right?
worldly ledge
I dont know guys, in truth I am new here. Would someone tell me please, is this real or what does the numbers says? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u3rsDLQNecJQufw1Gg3yoF
drifting elbow
ignore statweights
start looking into top gear sims
u dont have laser/archive trait for raid RA buff
short arch
If pugs never pull more than 3 mobs in m+ would you guys still go for CT?
drifting elbow
depends on dungeon
CT is quite solid on most dungeons
if u really dont pull more than 3, i guess its fine to use poison bombs
quiet spruce
Someone mentioned he was using sub gear for sin?
gusty yoke
i think they were given gear by bliz so maybe only got one set of gear
quasi pewter
no
bold stag
maybe just an application bug from the inspect stuff i dont know
they used their tournament realm chars, so they set the gear they want
blizz dont tell u what to wear
gusty yoke
yeh i meant that they only get one set of gear of their choice
bold stag
i dont think so cause he wasnt sub in a single dungeon why should he choose sub gear then ?
opaque shale
I have a simple question, do we stack as much haste as possible for ST or do we try to balance it out with crit and mastery. Obv I sim my char and whatnot but I feel like I'm stacking way too much haste with ReoA as well
strange python
Stat weights
opaque shale
Yeah I've done that as well
after I simmed I got my stat weights and crit is now equal to haste with mastery a little bit behind.
lone junco
Top gear is best. stats are a fickle bitch.
Raid tends to be haste crit. M+ crit mastery.
opaque shale
feels like it yeah, pawn was recommending a crit/mas ring and I simmed it for a dps loss
lone junco
Traits flex that stuff.
lone junco
Pawn sees ilvl for azerite which of course is minimal compared to proper trait
opaque shale
yeah
lone junco
My haste is dropping for raid due to ma tb.
opaque shale
doing 1 SS and 2 archive
lone junco
Could be 25% before archive. Just not bis
lone junco
When you use top gear. Try picking subterfuge. Ma. Tb exang. And the top few traits.
My dd. Tb. Archive was like 500dps over my next exang.
vale beacon
guys what is a high burst opener ?
opaque shale
I have a feeling that exang has a higher opener than TB
check the ravenholdt assassination guide
look at the openers and try them out
round harbor
@marble hemlock oof i was under the assumption that Ct did hit the orbs lol
idk why i tohught that, probly cause i use it for ghuuns aswell
lone junco
@vale beacon best openers are listed in the guide for raid.
Or run a sim and read the apl sequence for your traits.
dusky fulcrum
why was i tagged in this chat? 👀
flint verge
shy blaze
whats your guys opinion on affectively simming for M+ trash? 13+ keys
rocky notch
it's pretty pointless
you can sim some stuff
and extrapolate
but at some point you have to just use your brain
the amount of crit/mastery/haste you should have will depend on key level and dungeon
and how it's being pulled
worldly bone
Is there a list somewhere of dagger drops? I have check pins, I am outlaw atm but wanting to switch to sin
supple hearth
your adventure guide. wowhead. etc etc
Mother has the best dagger for u from a raid
worldly bone
Yeah, I’ve been farming mother and zul
rocky notch
dungeon daggers can only be 380 socketed
worldly bone
Ok thanks and sorry to bother you all
supple hearth
u could also do pvp
dread glad shanker is crit/haste
depending on how good u are at rated u can get your dagger that way
worldly bone
Ok thank you all 😁
shrewd pine
Hey guys, I was watching MDI and I saw musclebruh running first dance and archive as assasination and had like a lot of mastery. Is that BiS right now? I'm new to the class and trying to clearn dungeons and hopefully do some m+ soon too. Is the mastery good because envenoms hit hard and do prio damage?
gusty yoke
seems like it was either just a mistake on his part
or the inspect thing being bugged out
im leaning on it being a inspect bug
hardy veldt
^
shrewd pine
I dont think blizzard has bugs in their games.
gusty yoke
true
high quality company
clearly the twitch thing bugged out cause shitty bad tv site
vestal wren
@shrewd pine https://www.wowhead.com/npc=62256/stinkbug they do
shrewd pine
weird flex but ok
strange python
😬
zealous lily
does galecaller snapshot rupture /garrote/crimson tempest or is that only exsang
hardy veldt
exang snapshots
strange python
dots are dynamic
hardy veldt
not once exang is used.
zealous lily
ok so dots are dynamic it doesn't matter if I overwrite dots that I applied during galecaller
zealous lily
right but the galecaller segment of that just lasts for 10 seconds
unless it's exsang snapshotted
strange python
Hey guys, i'm new as assa 😃 what do you think about 2x double dose & 1 matrix ? 😃
Sim it
i did, but is there any specificity of how to play that ?
Just play Toxic Blade
strange python
oh okay 😃 thanks
marble hemlock
you still pool energy before envenom to get 2 mutilates into it (unless you get 4cp from the first one)
young socket
We still taking CT even if tank only pulls one pack at a time?
strange python
no
drifting elbow
did i just read that someone overwrites dot u did with exsan? 
twin heart
Hey guys, just got 120 with my rogue. Quick question: Which and why ist the best spec for PvE content?
drifting elbow
assa with SS traits for mythic dungeon contents
blissful plover
if you sim your char with Archive of the Titans, do the "raid" buff count ?
molten moon
Why is swirling sands trait so strong? Showing 1 swilings sands, 1 archive, 1 DD, is 100 DPS more than 1 archive, 1 shroud, 1 DD for raid
gusty yoke
shroud just isnt that strong on ST
velvet kernel
strange python
SS sap?
zealous lily
you can sap during shroud and you can shadowstep
generally in most skips you do not want to do that though.
most it will be a little dangerous
maybe in the underrot skip it might make it slightly easier but it increases chance of a group mate screwing up to teleport around
i would only use it to catch up on bois that are too speedy on their mounts
strange python
Just sap it normally ???
tawny sable
Which simc fight option is closest to m+? Helter?
marble hemlock
patchwerk
tawny sable
Huh? Can you explain that
zealous lily
short duration patchwerks and variable duration
marble hemlock
you pull a trash mob, you hit it until it dies. the end.
zealous lily
to tell you which is stronger in which scanrio
use MDT to look at the trash pack you want to sim and then set the time to your expected group damage
marble hemlock
most people do 4-8target, and 40 or 60sec
i personally run 6t40sec
keep in mind that aoe sims are somewhat inaccurate due to the limitations of the APL, so take the results with a grain of salt
zealous lily
hectic cleave is a meme it's not a real thing that coresponds with any encounter
tawny sable
Alright. Good info. Thanks guys.
molten moon
Is SS, Acrhive, DD, decent on Vectis? how much value do you get out of the vanish, triple empowered garrote on add/boss after each liquify?
marble hemlock
you usually keep vanish for 3rd or 4th add, the first one on pull/after liquify dies insta because everyone and their mother pops 2mins there
DD is pretty good though, since you play alot around TB on that fight
SS is meh id say, but still good since you usually get atleast full value out of it on the boss, and the CP gain is also very nice
drifting elbow
aoe sims isnt inaccurate
u can literally pull those numbers off with all cds available
marble hemlock
so the sim that uses CT 15seconds into the fight when in fact you use it 3seconds into the fight is 100% accurate?
drifting elbow
depends how u view it
marble hemlock
it does the most dps in a live setting
drifting elbow
rupturing on most targets gives u sustained dps in long term
CT in 3sec more burst
marble hemlock
i mean you still rupture
you just dont rupture as early
you have 2 different openers, g g g ct fok fok rup vs g g g rup fok fok ct
obviously one of those does more dps
with the minor difference of missing exactly 7 energy, which is a non issue since you still dont starve energy
drifting elbow
but they really dont make big difference in long term
marble hemlock
it makes me question its accuracy
drifting elbow
marble hemlock
and since people dont use sims to look at their shiny dps, but to get advice on how to gear, what talents and traits to play etc.
accuracy plays an important role
drifting elbow
u can test all u want on 4 target stacked dummies, long term numbers are same regardless how u time CT use
only thing that actually differs is burst dmg on opener
marble hemlock
and the fact that the result is the same, despite knowing that its model isnt accurate, doesnt make you question that the sim should be higher? or that its trait suggestions might not be 100% reliable?
drifting elbow
what?
marble hemlock
just because you do the amount of damage the sim tells you you should be doing, doesnt mean everything is fine and dandy
drifting elbow
if u question ur sims, make urself personal sim to prove current being very inaccurate
marble hemlock
maybe the sim is wrong, and youre doing less than you should?
drifting elbow
''doing less than u should'' when most of that questionated numbers is from ur ability to perform
marble hemlock
its pretty much impossible to write an accurate model/apl for m+ scenarios, since those are very different from pull to pull. the one we have now after several additions/changes are as good as they are probably ever gonna be, but that doesnt mean you should just take them as gospel
drifting elbow
we never claim sims reflecting m+ situations
thats why we r using 40sec durations unbuffed
frail wasp
It's impossible to make a computer accurately represent a realistic situation. You run your sim for numbers and go from there.
marble hemlock
your point was that aoe sims arent inaccurate, i proved why it cannot be accurate, your counter-argument was that "but i get the results it tells me i should be getting" and are content with that. i am not.
no point to argue any further tbh
frail wasp
No, @marble hemlock, there is no point for you to keep trying to argue.
drifting elbow
proved'' when i said my counter argument why it doesnt make big difference
go test ur damn numbers on actual dummy tests to see such inaccurate sim numbers
marble hemlock
it makes a difference, ergo it CANNOT be accurate
drifting elbow
wtf
show proofs in actual logs then
no use arguing with such dumb reasons u got
frail wasp
You're not proving anything, Sel. You're stating something that you haven't proved, and then acting like you've proved it by stating it.
The burden of proof is upon you, not the sims or anybody here.
drifting elbow
my statements come from my tests on 4t stacked dummies for difference with CT timings and my conclusion is that CT timing itself doesnt affect greatly other than burst numbers in long term
marble hemlock
i stated that the APL uses an opener that is not being used by anyone who actively plays higher keys because at it turns out, a different one provides better results
drifting elbow
u mean ppl who actually priorities rupturing before CT is wrong?
on 4+ target mobs
hmm
marble hemlock
as i said earlier, after your 3xgarrote you can either rupture or CT, and then fok once or twice for cp, and then use another finisher (which isnt what the APL is doing btw, it casts multiple ruptures before applying the first CT at 14seconds into the fight)
drifting elbow
by ur logic, shouldnt live numbers be greater than in sims in long term 40+sec dps numbers
marble hemlock
there are hard-coded priorities to how the rotiation plays out, which are not overwritten even though multi-target situations demand for an adjustment in gameplay
up until recently the APL didnt even use 3 garrotes
marble hemlock
that alone should suffice as evidence, that the apl is never "finished" or "perfect" or "100% accurate" its a constant work in progress
drifting elbow
so u r saying ST numbers are inaccurate?
median mason
Machines are wrong gamers rise up
marble hemlock
which leads me to claim that the results are unreliable, because without exact knowledge of how the apl does things, how the damage distributions measures up to the one in an live-environment etc, it is very naive to just trust the sim 100%
im saying the multitarget sim is not perfect
ST is much more strict and easier to model
since, you know, its only 1 target, compared to 6 or 8
marble hemlock
how many people doing sims for multitarget situations actually do that?
they just want a quick answer as to waht traits they should play
marble hemlock
theyre not gonna check if the apl does funky stuff
marble hemlock
so putting a disclaimer on it seems like the right thing to do in my book
"dont blindly trust the sim"
drifting elbow
i mean, ur talk, is purely argument in difference WHAT should be done in first 15seconds into pull
when i literally said
CT timings doesnt make huge difference in long term
marble hemlock
we''re talking about 40second sims
drifting elbow
if u ignore using CT 100%, its huge difference
marble hemlock
how is wasting 10seconds of CT uptime not gonna make a huge difference?
jovial kite
it does if ur first ct is 14 sec in like the apl does it
marble hemlock
energy is a non-issue
in an environment where you cap energy anyway
because you apply rupture to 4+ targets
drifting elbow
but u do starve if u apply ruptures later
drifting elbow
u literally do
marble hemlock
so my experience of doing ~200m+ in bfa playing assa with the opener i explained is just wrong then i suppose
good to know
median mason
Logs pls
marble hemlock
note to self: i am starving energy, despite being able to use abilities every global cooldown
jovial kite
check his wowprog
marble hemlock
so youre doing the opener the APL suggests and youre still starving energy?
marble hemlock
im sorry, but yes, youre doing something wrong
i dont know what it might potentially be
drifting elbow
i didnt say i did same as APL does
marble hemlock
you dont starve energy with a g g g ct fok rup exsang opener, unless all of your initial garrote targets didnt get a DP application from your autoattacks
marble hemlock
wait what
so youre saying
you get same results as the sims
despite playing a different rotation than the apl does?
im out
drifting elbow
i never said ''I DID''
marble hemlock
not gonna argue anymore, enjoy trusting the sim 100% until it gets changed again, like it already did 3 times in the last 2weeks, which should be reason enough to at least consider the possibility that the sim is not perfect
median mason
Machines are wrong gamers rise up
jovial kite
@drifting elbow it doesnt change the fact that the apl might not be optimal
marble hemlock
ofc you get the same numbers when you do exactly as the sim says. my argument was that the sim is not however the most efficient way to play
so if you value to play optimally, you may want to adjust your gameplay, which will lead to the results of the sim, which does not line up with the more optimal gameplay, to be inaccurate
drifting elbow
and my argument is that it isnt inaccurate and never claimed it to be most optimal
there is biiig difference in my comments on this topic
marble hemlock
so we were basically arguing semantics, good to know
median mason
I think it's because you both have cat pictures
marble hemlock
guess it was my bad for assuming that people asking for help want to play optimally, and not play like the sim does
median mason
Became literal cat fight
marble hemlock
@fresh ginkgo depends on dungeon, but i much prefer playing assa
drifting elbow
there is nothing wrong with advicing with optimal plays
marble hemlock
i basically only play sub in waycrest/shrine, and siege sometimes
fresh ginkgo
do you sub at shrine while you let your group pull mobs to boss?
marble hemlock
gonna try it for atal aswell though, since i do feel that at higher keys assa loses some value in atal specifically
drifting elbow
but saying that sims are inaccurate really ticks me off when they arent inaccurate regardless how non optimal APL is
fresh ginkgo
oh ok
marble hemlock
again, thats really just semantics. people want advice for how to play optimally on live servers, so i will continue to claim that for that specific purpose, the sim is inaccurate
jovial kite
i agree here
marble hemlock
yeah gyu
you basically play around the sub rogue as much as possible, pulling trash into bosses where possible, or keeping low-health mobs alive as long as possible so the sub-rogue can utilize those to put prio-target dps into the more lethal enemies
you see it a lot on bosses, but its usually the trash where it matters more
i.e. when you do a pull with one high health mob that has 4 adds, and the high-health mob is infested. thats where sub really shines and saves the group a lot of time
marble hemlock
in pugs sub is a lot satisfying to play
fresh ginkgo
is that the gear you use for m+ or raid?
marble hemlock
if the tank is a bit reserved when it comes to pulling and only takes like 3-4 mobs, which is a sound attitude to have, sub will never be as good as when you play around it like its y our star-player
not sure what gear i logged out in right now, i try to log out with the tiny electromental to troll people though 😛
basic priority for assa is crit>mastery for aoe, sub is the other way around really
you dont need to stack huge amount of mastery though, thats really only useful for mythic zul
as long as you have like 25-30% crit as assa, youre gonna be fine
ruby shale
Hey guys, i'm pretty new to rogue and am playing assasin, i'm currently 356 and running exsanguate and my ST dps is quite low, for a new player should I want to be running toxic blade or is exsanguate the one I should stick to and just keep learning
young socket
You choose TB or Exsang based on sims
fresh ginkgo
exsang became better for me once i got galecaller boon
fading spade
Azerite traits and trinkets play a part in the talent as well
I run a DD, twist and archive with a 370 dice and fathoms. Highest simming dps is with tb
When I swap to my m+ gear, exang sims higher cuz I use shrouded and galecaller
ruby shale
Yeah I don't have that shrine trinket yet, my rogue is my alt im trying to play it at a decent standard, toxic blade does come out on top on sims but looking at logs I see a mix
I guess i'll spend more time on training dummies
With TB
fading spade
Truthfully, its personal preference. If you have no shrouded on your gear, try running TB with master assassin
The burst potential is nuts
Also, check out the Top Gear sim on raidbots
It can sim all gear you own and come up with the best combination of traits, trinks and talents
It's a very helpful tool
fading spade
Honestly I think the <@&224906552333697025> should pin a small guide on top gear simming.
drifting elbow
well ppl constantly lead ppl to top gear sims anyway
not that many goes straight for the pins
fading spade
@drifting elbow yes MA is, but tb has great synergy for more consistent damage due to buffing nature damage
marble hemlock
ban theri
shrewd pine
Yea ban the idiot, toxic troll
safe matrix
There's a guide on how to sim in #bot-spam
shrewd pine
And in rules and guides
There is one guide to sim too
But oh well
Better ping the mods
marble hemlock
ping or pin?
jovial kite
pinping
civic palm
marble hemlock
yeah, some words are getting autofiltered now
jovial kite
BLOGGER :333
marble hemlock
but yeah anyway, for basically everything singletarget related, the answer still remains the same as it always has: sim yo self
desert vault
boy SoB really doesn't stack up to a second SS in lower like 9-11 dungeons it seems. I wish I had the stuff to do 2x SS and 1x SoB.
desert vault
yeah I'm not a big m+ player, too lazy. I just run Siege and Freehold over and over again. I could do a freehold 15 prolly 😃
and there there is Kings Rest, never even walked inside it 😛
marble hemlock
freehold is probably one of the best dungeons for scent
marble hemlock
yup
once you hit the sweetspot of getting 4-5cp every single fok
the fun begins
desert vault
my azerite pieces are so broken at the moment. If Vectics gives up the helm I can just drop in DD, SS, and Archive and call it a day
good enough for general purpose stuff until I get more into m+
fresh ginkgo
i feel like i cant maintain alot of ruptures if i play with CT
im probably just bad
marble hemlock
maybe. might also just be because youre pulling small, and you have low crit
if youre struggling with maintaining CT and rupture properly, play poison bomb until you feel more comfortable with the aoe gameplay
at which point you can jump back into trying out CT
ember forum
Okay so i'm doing some testing with Crimson Tempest, what number of targets do you think it is worth to crimson target on? 3+ ?
marble hemlock
4+ usually
is where its doable to maintain CT with ~30crit, unless you get an unlucky streak of 1-2cp foks
marble hemlock
how much are you running right now?
fresh ginkgo
about 20%
marble hemlock
most people try to run somewhere around 28-30%, and then play 1 or 2 trinkets that can provide crit-buffs aswell
you will quickly notice a difference once you get more crit. if that means dropping some ilvl, thats definitely worth it for m+
fresh ginkgo
cool i just have alot of slotted gear atm with all haste gem
i guess i just to keep all my gear i get from m+
marble hemlock
keeping multiple sets of gear is definitely a good idea
i have 4 or 5 by now, for assa raid, assa m+, sub m+, sub st, and sub zul
warm zinc
bursting or agi pots?
wild gyro
I've simmed Bursting, it pulls ahead on ST
tough vale
It sounds wrong, but I will craft 2 bursting and go to a training dummy.
spice surge
How much did it sim ahead then planetz?
spice surge
Then you simmed wrong
No way
Because the difference should be within 50 dps, 100 at most
tough vale
Agi pot: 16,9k dps over 2min(looked when vendetta was back).
bursting pot: 13,4k dps. bursting did 30k damage total.
balmy comet
is the shrouded suffocation bug after 3 target still a thing?
marble hemlock
no
balmy comet
oh okay thanks
marble hemlock
@keen mist 
marble hemlock
cant move away from reaping, those mobs will chase you to the end of the earth
delicate egret
How do Elaborate Planning and Garrote interact? Does it snapshot or does it change damage dynamically?
marble hemlock
dynamically
civic palm
No snapshotting from EP.
marble hemlock
all increases for everything are dynamic
delicate egret
Aight
shy escarp
no snapshots for assassination as far as I know
marble hemlock
the exception being haste value when using exsanguinate
thats literally the only exception
civic palm
Nightstalker and Subterfuge snapshot come oooon.
But just their bonuses to a singular ability.
Those talents actually partially explain snapshotting, same as that new trait teaches pandemic > _>
numbers are clearly placeholders/errors
shy escarp
actual snapshotting on subterfuge would be hilarious. empowered garrotes forever
marble hemlock
well
they dont really snapshot, actualyl the opposite
NS used to snapshot, then they fixed it
shy escarp
yep, which is why you don't refresh empowered garrote
marble hemlock
they increase the damage once, and once you overbuff/refresh, you lose the bonus
literally the opposite of snapshotting
civic palm
I think it might go bought ways, dmg for the entirely of the ability. Rupture is dynamic so updating it without NS means you lose NS bonus.
NS/SUB still apply their bonus to the entirety of that use spell.
Whether it's garrote or mutilate.
shy escarp
but that's not a snapshot. snapshotting is if the buff stays after refreshing. subterfuge/NS don't do that
marble hemlock
its not the entirety of the ability tho, is it. its conditional, either the entirety or the new application
snapshotting would be applying rupture during EP, and even when EP runs out or you overbuff rupture it would retain those 10% damage
marble hemlock
or applying the rupture while the crit-proc is up, and it retains that critvalue even if it runs out
civic palm
snapshotting would be applying rupture during Nightstalker, and even when Steath runs out or you overbuff rupture it would retain that damage
_>
Snapshotting did usually go the OTHER direction though, with the Bleeds/DoTs snapshotting stat/etc.
marble hemlock
if you wanna see nightstalker/subterfuge as a 1gcd buff or whatever, then yeah, thats a snapshot i suppose
civic palm
Whereas with NS/SUB it's not REALLY snapshotting.
civic palm
Yeah.
marble hemlock
so thats what i compared it to when i said that its literally the only snapshot remaining
civic palm
Yarr
marble hemlock
theres a few abilities/passives that work similar to a snapshot, but all of those are single-use abilities
civic palm
Easier to manage though 👌 so that's good
civic palm
Took similar to Combat Red Buff AFKing IMO, I am sure that there's a middle ground there somewhere though.
Dope that Warlocks are getting a Pandemic trait though 👌
Well, Affliction is.
civic palm
,<
Actually now with the low CD on Garrote, Rupture and Garrote snapshotting stats would not be AWFUL.
marble hemlock
such an amazing mechanic, especially after making it so RvS didnt count as a style for BG
so you could use RvS instead of SS to delay DI
god that was amazing
civic palm
It would just be extremely unintuitive, and that's no good. (the snapshotting)
marble hemlock
checking the ICD of the trinket, seeing its 20sec till renatakis is ready, delaying DI by using RvS instead of SS, and then popping the final SS right as renatakis comes up, getting into DI, popping KS into AR
give mop back please 😦
civic palm
I suppose with the popularity of weakauras it would be less awful to have stat snapshotting back =\
marble hemlock
dunno
i think with how many random procs we have
snapshotting would feel a bit awful
the reason it worked with cata/mop was because trinkets were either on use or ICD, so you could plan around them
civic palm
Yeah but at the same time this is literal player empowerment and people would just refresh during 90%+ high times.
PEOPLE LIKE ROLL THE BONES YE?!
_>
and atm in Uldir you would most likely snapshot during your giant ROA bonus anyway.
aka DO NOT REFRESH DURING CRIT/MASTERY WEAPON PROCS
civic palm
If you have it yeah.
marble hemlock
if overwhelming power was on a trackable 30sec ICD
that would be nice
to play around
civic palm
Some procs do still have a very high proc chance.
marble hemlock
rppm still sucks
marble hemlock
on use > icd > something else > rppm imo
lone junco
@marble hemlock zzz. isnt it late there?
marble hemlock
1:40am
civic palm
Trinkets are not on GCD yet can just stack on uses with stat snapshotting.
Remove as much randomness as you can, have targeted large burst.
NOW
HOW... do you word the tooltip to make it obvious that it functions as such?
Finishing move that tears open the target, dealing Bleed damage over time. Lasts longer per combo point.
1 point : [ 50.1% of Attack Power ] over 8 sec
2 points: [ 75.2% of Attack Power ] over 12 sec
3 points: [ 100.2% of Attack Power ] over 16 sec
4 points: [ 125.3% of Attack Power ] over 20 sec
5 points: [ 150.4% of Attack Power ] over 24 sec
i think its just easier to balance around rppm than on use
lone junco
right. delay a trinket to align with vanish exang . and it becomes a god. let the shitty haste buff pop willy nilly and it never aligns enough to be OP
double conc proc during legaion vanish Bota exang
civic palm
Finishing move that tears open the target, dealing Bleeding (Physical) damage over time. Lasts longer per combo point and deals more damage with higher stats when cast.
happy accidents.
silent linden
civic palm
haste to ~10%, then focus on crit and mastery
shy escarp
I think I have like 8 or 9% haste in my M+ set, then as much mastery and crit as possible
keen mist
@marble hemlock spreading the knowledge 🙏
marble hemlock
@keen mist
waxen field
why so little haste btw
shy escarp
you get more CP from crit in M+
and you get energy from your garrotes/ruptures
since you have them on many targets
waxen field
i c
another question, after a hm run i got 2 zaerite pieces running titan archive, would it be better if i get shrouded suffocation instead and just remake azerite traits everytime i go raid ?
marble hemlock
❤ speed
marble hemlock
timing keys with double rogue by pairing up with seli vs depleting keys with random peepos
civic palm
o _o
lethal heart
to so stupid shit ye
marble hemlock
😦
marble hemlock
someone(tm)?
lethal heart
misclicked and broke cc
marble hemlock
goddamn boomkins
lethal heart
there is many boomkins that play this game btw
marble hemlock
theyre all weirdos
lethal heart
😄
lethal heart
or we depleted 19 underrot by 30 seconds
coz literally
we full wipe on shroud skip
coz quaking
marble hemlock
just play first pack
marble hemlock
first quake comes 20sec after key start, so 10sec after the wall disappears
which is right as you shroud down
marble hemlock
its like BRH
lethal heart
because more space
marble hemlock
quake
marble hemlock
nah
they changed shroud
even if no one clips someone else
it still breaks for non rogues
lethal heart
ye
think so aswell
but then
its like
we're live testing
or we lose kings rest key
marble hemlock
had the same thing happen in underrot actually
lethal heart
because when we use ring of peace
mobs stuck into wall
and reset
2 minutes later
lol
lethal heart
btw
@marble hemlock
just so you know
because we sadly didnt
new invis potion
doesnt prevent you from getting quake yourself
i fucking despise this trash game
honestly
marble hemlock
thats kinda hilarious actually 😄
karmic ingot
Which old invis potion? Cuz there’s kind of a lot at this point.
lethal heart
draenic
or skagglydrynk
skagglydrynk probably is better
because you can actualyl see other people
karmic ingot
Yeah, I like that you can see stuff with Skaggyl
Sounds like they just need to make the new potion give the same buff as the old potion. Why wouldn’t they just recycle it instead of coding a new buff that sucks?
marble hemlock
round harbor
so guy on our guild just bought this https://gyazo.com/b05210ecbaf399554da9efc891feb0a5
round harbor
idk what realm, for 950k
marble hemlock
well, the exact same ring was up on twisting nether for 2.8mil
round harbor
ah yeah im US
marble hemlock
ah kk
nice prices
for such a beast
for 950k i wouldve bought it in a heartbeat
shy escarp
buy it and only put a 27 mastery enchant on there, got to keep things in budget
marble hemlock
buy it and put haste gem+enchant on it
lethal heart
should've boosted more in legion
lethal heart
should've played game more
actually shouldnt have touched it whatsoever
once bfa released
civic palm
O _O
lethal heart
lethal heart
great minds think alike
shy escarp
shouldve stopped in WOTLK
round harbor
he says he started this expac wioth 147m gold
from sales
- tsm
here i am spending every last penny i got on pots for m+ pushing lmao
marble hemlock
i mean yeah
thats a lot
made like 5mil in first m+ week of bfa by boosting +10s
good times
round harbor
yeah but ur good
marble hemlock
i mean it was just for weekly and people were paying 1-1.3mil per run, didnt even have to be intime 😄
marble hemlock
helped that at least 2 good teams were pushign for realmfirst instead, and most other people just farmed +6s for gear
round harbor
lethal heart
would never play live
marble hemlock
still remember
lethal heart
thats why they wont do that
warm zinc
what are the general best stats for m+? crit mastery?
marble hemlock
yep