which is what genuinely confuses me
#assassination
icy hare
drifting elbow
SS is hyped due to its ability for burst dmg on fresh packs
civic palm
Yeah SS is very very very good, don't get that twisted.
civic palm
The SIMc APLs can not use Shrouded Suffocation as well as a player as it does not handle reStealth well.
or at all.
coarse knot
After 20 secs into a pull without vanish or shadow meld SS Does not benefit you anymore
Unlike SOB
Where it’s basically however many ruptures you have running
civic palm
+500AGI is monstrous > _>
drifting elbow
doesnt dmg boost from SS work in normal garrote tho 🤔
icy hare
so the tldr on whether or not to take SS is generally the amount of adds and how long they live?
civic palm
Only from Stealth.
drifting elbow
always take SS or mix of traits that got at least 1 SS for m+
civic palm
Shadowmeld counts in this case.
Always take 1 SS into M+, it's a tremendous amount of damage when combined with Subterfuge.
coarse knot
Also the 2 extra CP feels good
civic palm
Eh you overcap usually but it's still nice to know you will have a 5CP CT or Rupture after the Garrotes are out.
coarse knot
Feels good when you already going into next fight with 5 CP and you rupture and have EP running with the garrotes
civic palm
Fuuuck yes.
coarse knot
Orgasmic damage lol
arctic crow
on that chest piece dagger sims higher, i have the same one, but TTK isnt far behind
im still not sure dagger is that good
hate procs
drifting elbow
hmh it doesnt snapshot EP into full garrote dmg 
civic palm
Just note that DitB sims assuming you are attacking from behind 100% of the time.
arctic crow
i might switch it and give it a shot
i do like exsang more
and TTK prob even better with TB
civic palm
Not so much.
drifting elbow
well its noticeable crits with TTK
civic palm
Yeah.
drifting elbow
i dont really regard TB as annoyance
arctic crow
i can exsang and switch targets
civic palm
For a moment, sure.
drifting elbow
well its an illusion of freedom 🙃
civic palm
EX specifically due to it making you refresh DoTs more often.
Which is ANNOYING.
"annoying"
arctic crow
moar dots
civic palm
SAME DOTS, just again.
spring iron
is there a workaround for getting DPS reads on Details and using vanish as a DPS CD?
drifting elbow
nope
spring iron
My friggin DPS DIVES after I select vanish.
civic palm
Nopers.
drifting elbow
u need partner for dummies if u want to know full dmg
civic palm
As noted in the guide and in the same method you would in the Opener.
spring iron
ah
civic palm
Some of the old meter addons allowed for less strict combat dropping.
Doubt those work in such a way anymore though.
drifting elbow
recount maybe
arctic crow
Why without SS and exsang, ravenholdt says to vanish before exsang
i dont get it
y not get a long garrote vs extra few
seconds
civic palm
Without SS but WITH Exsang?
civic palm
Probably still using Subterfuge and you want the extra 100% DMG on the Garrote
arctic crow
dont u still get it with vanish
civic palm
That's why you Vanish, refresh Garrote, EX.
arctic crow
it like a couple exyta seconds
drifting elbow
....
drifting elbow
reread what subterfuge does
civic palm
and in the middle of combat you do not have the Garrotes from the opener anymore.
arctic crow
vs 18 seconds
civic palm
You have 18 seconds regardless.
You have 24 with the Garrotes after Vanish.
Actually.
So... yeah.
drifting elbow
u want more dmg into garrote due to subterfuge
not that it really changes when exsang is merely speeding up the dot
civic palm
Yarp.
arctic crow
Miss my trait
civic palm
"merely", harharhar
civic palm
k
civic palm
It's good when you can use it, yeah.
DitB is particularly bad on that fight depending on how your group handles the groups.
muted jacinth
my haste stat weight is 2.4 ._. @vocal harbor
civic palm
Nothing wrong with it.
muted jacinth
never lucky with rings it's pretty awful
sick monolith
boys is there a way to see a good rogues rotation on mythic bosses?
sick monolith
thanks spook. Im a bad rogue trying to git gud. Happy halloween
strange python
380 socketed dead-eye Spyglass. 
winter moss
prime stirrup
yo @civic palm did you get a log of that shadowmeld SS garrote test last night?
wtf you doing with your name haha
civic palm
Having fun get off my back.
I did not get a log I have my 👀 and AFKing in LFR to comb through the combat log to make sure I didn't miss something.
prime stirrup
but it did work yes?
civic palm
SS worked yes but no Subterfuge.
prime stirrup
nice thansk for confirmation
harsh sphinx
civic palm
It's being weird.
white seal
vast forum
Seems boring
drowsy parcel
sullen hedge
does anyone know if the shrouded suffocation trait works on all of my subterfuged garrotes?
or just the one
vast forum
All
sullen hedge
damn thats insane
blissful hull
anyone have the enxg/toxic blade talent swap macro?
civic palm
NEW Nothing Personal Vendetta grants you 50 energy over 20 sec and poisons the target, dealing [862 * 10 * (1.27 * (1 + Versatility) * 1.14)] Nature damage over 20 sec.
#showtooltip
/cast [talent:6/2] Toxic Blade; [talent:6/3] Exsanguinate
smoky tulip
Yo anyone know if I should be holding vanish for 2nd garr if im running SSx2?
blissful hull
thanks
civic palm
👍
strange python
which trait combo is the best for m+ 1x archive,1x SS, 1x SoB/1x archive 2x SS/ 1x SoB 2x SS ? 🤔
inner pecan
1x SoB 2x SS if you can get value out of SoB
maybe run the Archive in something like Tyra KR or Temple
where you won't get that much SoB value
strange python
yy its all 385/370
strange python
Nope thats same 385 and SoB is with overwhelming rait and archive heed my call
strange python
Nope its head from vectis i think
inner pecan
head from vectis doesn't have SoB
strange python
sob head is from m+
strange python
i have 2 different heads :D
inner pecan
Only thing that would beat it is a 385 SS in that slot
midnight creek
Which trades are you running with in m+??
cunning blaze
How much haste do you wanna run in m+?
polar goblet
guys, my raidbots says that [Pistoleer's Spaulders] 385 is -20 dps for me, im using [Dread Gladiator's Leather Spaulders] 370 atm
370 shoulder = SP and OP azerites while 385 is MS and HMC
what do u think? note that haste is weight more for me than agility atm
devout jolt
Whats the best way to get good logs on Taloc? I keep trying the help the healers in the Elevator phase by not standing in the red and there fore not dpsing.....I'm guessing thats where I'm going wrong.
solar rose
@cunning blaze Fortified weeks you run a heavy crit/mastery build on tyranical I typically go ~15% haste with my il(380) and then go crit/mastery
@midnight creek if you mean traits, ideally Shrouded Suffocation
quick ice
@devout jolt fuck the healers, stand in all the shit if you have to to DPS
only way to log
quiet crescent
Bye bye 370 dagger. After bonus rolling on mother since week one, I get 390 socketed out of the chest !!
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xx8UcvxyvcNtWLV12a41ok
tropic pike
Is it worth my time farming for a higher ilevel trinket? I currently have the dice one from freehold but it’s only m2. I’ve been farming m8-10 for an upgrade and am wondering if it is worth it
jagged dragon
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
quiet crescent
If you have details you can copy it straight from the auras and it will create a generic one
There will be a little expert wa thing next to it
Export'
stiff venture
Ok thanks I'll try it
Is there a certain number of stacks you should use Sharpened blades at or is it always best to wait for 30?
grizzled jay
29
proper dagger
Maybe a dumb question, but all raiders training dummys are the same right?
quick ice
I think the dalaran one sometimes drops you through the floor when you shadowstep to it? other than that yes
proper dagger
Ok. oddly enough I can push much higher dps on a raiders dummy then in any instance and it's making me angry
quasi pewter
Warmode on?
echo night
FUCK YEA!!! 385 Gold-tasseled epaulders!! Finally something useful from weeklychest!
proper dagger
hehe I did +6 last week and got a 395 out of chest, sometimes you get lucky 😃
Also does anyone know where to get some daggers? I can't get rid of my 340s and they are stopping me from doing high M+
azure bronze
You never take dagger in the back as trait right? Cause I currently have 2 385 azerite pieces with it and both of the pieces have the twist the knife trait aswell. So should I go for double Dagger or double twist?
grizzled jay
Sim it my dude they are pretty close
proper dagger
Don't think I'll get into +8 with 358 in the LFG
Sad part is that I've returned to the game and joined a social guild that can't kill Zul normal, need to get this done 😛
grizzled jay
Work your way up then doing times 5 and 6 to get ure score higher as well as your gear
Timed*
Then move up to 7 and so forth
Thats what I did
proper dagger
Yea working on that
grizzled jay
Try and get some guild groups going
proper dagger
Yea we do some 5's and 6es
grizzled jay
Just spam them and trade gear to each other
desert karma
Does shrouded suffocation stack? or does it just give extra damage on the garrotes?
strange python
The damage component stacks. not combo points
desert karma
so there is no point running 2 SS? 😃
desert karma
shot, will put it on then 😃 thanks guys
tropic pike
@desert karma local is lekker 😉
desert karma
Awe, awe 😃 fellow SA player ❤
strange python
proud grove
Hello for twist the knife does the 1s bonus for envenom stack or just the damage ?
lone glade
hey! is Shrouded suffocation worth stacking now? i just got a 370 head with SS on it but i already have 1 piece with it
strange python
as far as I know stacking it is just worth it
lone glade
so i shoudl stack it?
spice surge
for m+ you want as many ss as possible
glacial steppe
time to open my weekly chest of disappointment
spice surge
for raids double dose is ideal but hard to get, archives are good
spice surge
@proud grove The damage of every trait always stacks and never the other things
So no, the extra envenom duration does not stack
proud grove
@spice surge ok thanks
short pivot
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
buoyant ember
Regarding world quest emissary reward azerite pcs. When does it read your item level to know if you receive a 355 or a 370 piece?
quick ice
as you hand in the emissary, afaik
dusky fulcrum
@buoyant ember it updates with your highest possible equipped ilvl, so a 390 boe does not count untill its soulbound. Breakpoint for all my chars not already 370+ was 365 quipped ilvl for 370 azerite rewards
My 361 possible equipped paladin had 355 from emmisarys
buoyant ember
Yeah I understand that period I'm asking because I have a lot of high level gear in my bank that I could put on at a certain time to have the correct item level. I'm asking should I equip that before the world quest updates at 10 o'clock in the morning or can I throw it on before I turned the question to receive the higher item level piece
spice surge
^
dusky fulcrum
And it updates 24/7
As soon as u reach 365 possible ilvl soulbound it ticks to 370
quick ice
afaik its not 365, because I've heard of 363 people with it at 370
fathom wyvern
so what talents are best for m+ this week?
dusky fulcrum
they had 2 more ilvls in bag/bank @quick ice
buoyant ember
OK well in my bank I have gear that when I put on gives me a 369 item level. Unfortunately it's all garbage so it sits in my bank it's already been equipped so it is soulbound. However what I'm wearing gives me a 359 item level and I still receive 355 azerite pieces
quick ice
no, 363 bag ilvl
there's something weird and its not a straight ilvl based calculation I don't think
dusky fulcrum
Idk i have 5 120 chars and all 4 above 365 has it 🤷
fathom wyvern
fort burst quakje
fathom wyvern
mark?
small island
should i have haste enchant on main hand or doesnt it matter if its in main or offhand?
quick ice
doesn;t matter
strange python
probably a common question but I'm used to outlaw, why is 2X SS preferred over 2x DD? The latter sims higher but I can't find anyone not using 2 or 3 SS traits.
spice surge
SS is better for m+
For raids you'd ideally have as many DD as possible (and one array trait ofc)
vast forum
Ss is also more accessible
strange python
Is sin worth playing at all in M+ vs outlaw without SS stacked then? I was trying to gear for ideal m+ runs and I was kinda curious since I only have 385 double dose
strange python
and you run exsang with it i assume
vast forum
Yea
strange python
ty
strange python
dont think so
pastel harness
sim
stray root
echo geyser
When playing with Scent of Blood does Rupture have prio over CT in aoe situations?
so 3x garrote into Rupture spam or u want to have 1 ct up after garrotes before u start rupturing
lone junco
Good q tbh. Are you playing scent for the big pull scale, or because you don't have a 3rd SS
edgy crystal
echo geyser
Well I have a 340 SS and just got a 370 SoB
rocky notch
Not sure how many targets you need to ct before any ruptures
echo geyser
And i thought SoB might have better value in fortified weeks
strange python
After vanish I use garrote garrote envenom right? Or if rupture is ending i use rupture
Nvm, yes I do that
dusky fulcrum
@strange python sry abit late (at work) but i run 1 ss 1 archive 1 dd and i cleared underrot 12,13 and 14 and a 14 atal yesterday (in time) and was always pulling good numbers, so stacking a specific trait isnt that important
1 ss is super important but stacking it feels like it does nothing really,
And yes, never garrote same target two globals a row, try to squees a finisher in
strange python
1 ss 2 uldir traits then
dusky fulcrum
Lazer matrix is PoS trait for m+ and pvp, its like hunter barrage all over again
dd is super good for bosses
crisp hollow
still pretty mediocre overall seeing as how M+ is heavily trash-focused
SS of course, but scent, archive, blightborne, all a fair bit better
dusky fulcrum
tyrannical week beg to differ :p
sturdy python
Still a large amount of trash
dusky fulcrum
i had 2x vendetta for all bosses except first one in my 12-14 underrots and i had it on all but priestess in atal 14
crisp hollow
no they don't
tyrannical weeks just mean larger trash pulls
and however you aim to max/min for ST you'd still need 2x vendetta
strange python
Sorry whats DD im not actually playing anymore im asking for someone in guild
strange python
Ty
dusky fulcrum
What is your reasoning?
dusky fulcrum
My 370 DD sims higher for cleave than 370 archive
crisp hollow
^
dusky fulcrum
:)
sturdy python
How long are you simming for
crisp hollow
like i said, he doesn't wanna be convinced lol
sturdy python
And for how many targets
Sims assume archive stats at 0, not relevant in m+
Anything over 3 targets dd is worthless
Er 4 with dd I suppose
light rampart
@lone junco thanks! I’ll go take a look
dusky fulcrum
300 seconds hectic
spice surge
5 if you have 2x dd
sturdy python
That's not cleave
spice surge
But yeah
sturdy python
Like a m+ anyway
crisp hollow
also super long for a pull lol
cold dragon
sim 3-4 targets at 1 min
dusky fulcrum
Idk i feel like your looking at it from a theory standpoint instead of actual m+ comps
dusky fulcrum
U dont need all 3 dps to be 100% aoe traits
flint verge
4 5 bocca 1 min
sturdy python
If yo want a for sure sim go use the herodungeon sim in sub pins
flint verge
Boss
crisp hollow
what's your io score if you don't mind me asking
dusky fulcrum
Ah there it is
sturdy python
No but ss is hardly bad in st
crisp hollow
LOL
dusky fulcrum
io score or gtfooo
sturdy python
Well I meam
cold dragon
@sturdy python wow, ive been looking for that
crisp hollow
well you're talking about in practice vs in theory
dusky fulcrum
my party yesterday averaged 1200 io score
cold dragon
Idk how much this will effect overall dps, but Toxic Blade after Vanish instead of before pushes me into 40k burst range
sturdy python
If you really want to handle tyr bosses bring an ID lock
crisp hollow
well in practice, at 1499 myself, double dose is not good
as someone with 2 385 double dose pieces
it hurts me to admit
but i don't get much use from it
dusky fulcrum
I have 370 archive and 370 dd, it has nothing to do with me padding my ilvl
sturdy python
No one said it did lol
But dd isn't going to get you value in big aoe pulls
Which is what m+ is about
dusky fulcrum
but the way he structured his reply it set me up for that assumoption
sturdy python
Now if your group struggles on bosses that's the best case for dd
dusky fulcrum
who said we struggled
crisp hollow
i'm gonna go make breakfast lol this is too difficult for 9am
dusky fulcrum
and im saying my archive sims worse and feels worse
sturdy python
That you need o have more boss damage to prevent wipes
sturdy python
Idc about feels
dusky fulcrum
and archive felt worse
visual token
I feel the worst though
sturdy python
Sim with herodungeon pin in sub and I'd bet archive takes over
dusky fulcrum
This is why we have to farm for azerite pieces, cant let us have fun and die faster
i am at work but will check when i get home :)
Also dont underestimate or sleep on longstrider
3x longstrider in 370+ pieces = sonic
royal lantern
30sec shield>sonic speed
flint verge
Someone knows how to export herodamage's string to Hekili ADD-ON?
royal lantern
maybe dont die all the time when you run 95%?
spice surge
Movespeed is def gonna be better for doing 10's n stuff
But if you're doing 18s you really want those shields
proper dagger
Question: I have Laser Matrix in my headpiece and now I get a chest that has the option for Archive ot Titans or the Shrouded Suffocation. Which should I pick?
Cuz you only need 1 uldir trait?
strange python
For raids? SS is less good in Uldir with exceptio of some fights
strange python
what other options do you have on head>
dusky fulcrum
Lazer matrix procs if you breathe, it sucks for m+ but nice in uldir
strange python
lazr just annoying AF on zekvos if it removes cc on adds
proper dagger
Umm I have Elemental Whirl and Shrouded Mantle
dusky fulcrum
Is that the wind that gives secondary stat?
very nice for zul mythic dno about other bosses
proper dagger
Yea it's that one
It's so confusing all these things, combination wise
Cuz don't you end up having like a ton of sets with combos
pseudo finch
Anyone on PTR know if we gunna have Uldir type traits in the zuldazar raid ?
hollow cloud
we better not have 
spice surge
There have been one similar to archive datamined
But i havent seen any array
We'll have to see
crisp hollow
i'm cool with raid-specific azerite effects making a piece bis for raiding as long as it's interesting
"flat increase in x stat" is super lame, make it something like "increased lust duration" or even just a colourful proc like antorus trinkets
pliant prism
A little question to the usage of my Galecaller's boon, should I try to delay my Exsa for the trinket or just hit it straight away with the renewed bleeds ?
obtuse grove
I usually always delay. I seem to do pretty good aslong as your using trink on cd
pliant prism
It's just this thing that Exsa does not line up with a trinket, idk how much of an impact would be delaying Exsa for the trinket hm. At least it lines up for next vendetta perfectly \o/
pliant prism
Alrighty! I guess I shouldn't hold it either for next vendetta/trinket when they both are up
spice surge
Use them on CD except holding the trinket a little bit at 2 min
Because you want it to line up with vendetta and vanish, which you use at like 2.20ish (and then it also lines up with exsang for this use)
vast forum
I'd like to see a custom sim of using 1st 4 exsangs on cd to line up with vanish and then delaying them for gcb, therefore lining up with vanish and vendetta
Not saying it's a gain but i'd like to see results
spice surge
You can search in #tc-research for it, its about a 1.5% loss
vast forum
Oh, they alrdy did that one?
spice surge
Oh nvm didnt read it throughly
But it doesnt really make sense to do that though
Because its just better to delay vendetta/vanish unless you lose casts
But there really isnt a point to try to edit the apl to fit certain exact fight timings
Because it could be a gain at 6.30 minutes but a massive loss at 7 min for example, so people dont really bother
woeful field
Just got a 385 Chest with Double Dose on it, before i had a 355 with SS on it, now the real question got a 355 head with Double Dose and a 340 with SS, what is more worth it to equip ?
spice surge
Unsure for m+, but DD for raid 100%
woeful field
simcraft put the 355 double dose ahead of the 340 SS by 100-200 dps on a ST Patchwerk sim
but i like SS so nice to play with i think XD
spice surge
2 cp every 2 mins is pretty whatver though 🤷
brave gyro
Yo, have they fixed the garrote bug? (the 4th garrote out of stealth)
spice surge
Yes
brave gyro
ah sweet, thanks
crystal vault
when i play with sharpened blades, do i only use it at 30stacks ?
spice surge
28+, but yeah
mental fiber
what about hidden blades? and how does number of targets change that?
spice surge
There really isnt a situation in which you would want hidden blades
gray yoke
Hey guys, so i did a reroll rogue and i dont have any SS trait, my chest is a 385 double dose i wonder if its better than the chest from fetid hm ?
spice surge
Where it would be useful is for burst aoe, but then you should just play outlaw instead
gray yoke
some people keep telling me that the SS trait is a must have
gray yoke
ok ok thx !
versed finch
I keep 1 ss for raids because I like the rotation better
But I also don't have a dd to replace it
bright shale
I raid 2x archive 1x blight. Got rid of SS never looked back
haughty lily
gray yoke
and scent of blood is trash right ? i have this on shoulders :(
bright shale
Good in pvp bad in pve
slate jacinth
I just picked up my 3rd azerite piece with SS today. How do I sim for M+ which azerite pieces I should use?
Raid ST I know, but im not sure which correct settings to use for M+
primal gazelle
you lucky mofo lol
harsh raven
I´m getting some contradicting info regarding openers these days. I should still stick to the opener for subterfuge, SS and Toxic Blades in the guide, right?
hollow cloud
Depends on ur equipped traits
versed finch
If you don't use ss you usually go master assassin
hollow cloud
Ur opener changes if u run 0 SS
versed finch
Seems that's how it sims anyways
harsh raven
At the moment I´m running with 1 x archive, 1 x SS and 1 x DD
hollow cloud
afaik
versed finch
Yeah same openee
spice surge
I mean, there is 1000 different openers in the guide
versed finch
May check to see if exsang sims better
spice surge
Check your traits and then find whichever fits that
harsh raven
it simmed almost equal to 2 x archive and 1 x DD
versed finch
Up to preference then
harsh raven
Toxic Blades still sims better for me, but it is getting close...
versed finch
Sucks
strange python
Yeah
Need to get the shoulders from Zul
Swirling Sands, Archive, SS will be very nice
2xOP 1xHmC
harsh raven
I only run raids atm
strange python
Even the 370 Zul shoulders would be great
harsh raven
so SS is kept for some flexibility on adds
tropic shadow
Garrote damage is huge
strange python
I wouldn't want to play without it tbh
atm I have 2xSS where one piece is 340 shoulders
the other is a 385 chest
harsh raven
I have been dismissing SS after the nerf and with the stacked traits from archive topping on Bloodmallet. But I guess raidbots doesn´t lie 😃
spice surge
Look at herodamage instead of bloodmallet
SS is not very good with master assassin which bloodmallet runs, whereas herodamage shows it with subterfuge
harsh raven
I run with subterfuge. Sims better for me still
strange python
Yeah
I have the luck of having 1x385 chest with SS
So it's just ilvl+the utility of SS outweighing any alternatives
harsh raven
Seems herodamage also has MA talented now?
strange python
You can also see other options with Subterfuge
look at Shrouded Suffocation, you have 2 entries for it
1 with MA at the bottom
Then 1 with Subterfuge close to the top
sand ridge
im looking through people logs and just rnadomly see fok... is there any reason for this?
strange python
on what bosses
opaque grotto
Yeah, what fights?
sand ridge
its 45 seconds in
fossil furnace
For M+, I am still running 340/340/370 3x SS... been awhile since I looked into changing it cause my cache sucks but would anyone run a 370 SoB instead of a 340 SS?
opaque grotto
Could have pressed it to keep poisons active on the boss while hitting the add
strange python
^this tbh
That's the only explanation beyond a misclick
Although the add should die before the poisons run out iirc
or at least close to it
harsh raven
@strange python Yeah, I looked at SS with Sub. Still, according to the list 2 x archive and 1 x DD should be way better. Sims say otherwise, though 😃
PS: It sims a tiny bit lower, but not so much that I will drop the flexibility of SS
manic quartz
385 Harlan's Dice from weekly box, feels good man
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
steel terrace
!stat
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
steel terrace
!stat weight
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
tropic shadow
On CD
sullen sphinx
Thanks
brave locust
Hey guys. 370er archive or 385er SS chest?
for M+
raid would be archive
as sims say
tropic shadow
3 SS for M+ is ideal
tropic shadow
You need one uldir piece for RA though so that changes things
brave locust
RA?
steel terrace
how does it look? my stat weight is fucked up tho
crit 22% haste 18% mast 28% vers 3%
winter moss
tfw when everyone has gcb and you dont 
spice surge
Run some shrines
winter moss
stats look good tho
steel terrace
shrine for trinket?
spice surge
I meant to macspook, idk what you want us to tell you about your sim though
steel terrace
idk, if it is good. i mainly do raid
winter moss
it's okay
spice surge
Corpuscle isnt very good, but other than thatyou just need high ilvl on your stuff
steel terrace
ok cool, il run some mithyc 9/10 for trinkets
winter moss
try to get another helm maybe. overal codp is pretty underwhelming
steel terrace
codp means?
winter moss
cowl of dark potents
warm cove
got a 2nd dagger but i sim low af, are my stats and traits really this bad for sin?https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hP6dsbjSUrHtaUBK34pfo8
steel terrace
oh yeah ahaha
winter moss
almost in the 17k club "i sim low"
warm cove
i sim above 17k as outlaw with 372 ilvl :c
steel terrace
ill probably change corpuscle with a deck
winter moss
im almost on 18k
steel terrace
hurts my wallet
spice surge
It depends on what you compare with
calm grail
any non-obvious tips on Mythic Fetid fellow rogue friends?
Preferred talents or timings?
winter moss
exsang
spice surge
For example, if you've been clearing mythics for a couple of weeks any item below 385 is considered low, whereas if you're doing hc 380 is quite high
I've seen some of the big bois in here closing in on 19k now with high array stacks
calm grail
So Vanish will line up with 1 and 3 and Vendetta on pull and add 2
winter moss
cloak doesnt save you from miasma but if its running out and you cloak you wont get paroxysm
and yes
if voidelf use your racial for stomp otherwise you can shadowstep every second stomp
note you will be spawned exactly in the middle of the boss not behind it (take care with debuff)
and your scnd pot on add 3 if your group keeps struggling with it
candid mica
i made my brewmaster take statue and had him put it in my spot in melee
just stepped that every time
fair basin
what traits do we use rn? i have x2 double dose 385 but i perform slightly under avg with it than 3xss
slender spade
For mythic plus, how much of a difference does it make to run Exsanguinate > Toxic blade?
- Is it viable to run with 1 trait of Fan of Blades, if it's a 385 piece compared to 370 Archive trait? ( second choice is Meticulous Scheming but from my understanding rogue' doesn't have any spells to activate the secondary proc??)
icy temple
spice surge
It doesnt really matter on wether you use tb or exsang theoretically. The thing is that the far away best trait for m+ is SS which synergizes really well with exsang, therefore most people run exsang. If you dont have any ss you can pick whichever you like, but if you have SS (even if its a couple ilvls lower) use it and exsang
amber arrow
spice surge
@icy temple Sounds like you've made an error somewhere, 2x of the same diminish each other a lot
verbal nimbus
why does the APL sample sequence show 170 energy
spice surge
Vigor increases your max energy
@amber arrow Or you can craft legs with haste instead of vers 😉
slender spade
@spice surge I've got 1 SS trait so far, been unable to get it on any other piece than chest. I can feel the exsang being better on burst, but feels much more awkward on larger packs to use properly (unless there's a focus target like infested)
- How about the Fan of Blades trait tho, compared to Archive? - Can't figure out how worth Fan of Blades is in m+
primal gazelle
at a certain point haste will drop off, mastery=haste for me at around 30% haste in uldir
fresh ginkgo
fans of blades is worse than archives
slender spade
Even with 15 ilvl difference?
slender spade
Got Pistoleer's shoulders 385 and Usurper's bloodcaked Spaulders 370
hollow cloud
@amber arrow Thats a pretty nasty sim, and I thought my 18.5 was nasty
fresh ginkgo
anyways probaly ends up better in aoe but single target no gain at all
might as well run archives
slender spade
Aye true. How about Meticulous Scheming? - is it still worthless because you can't proc spells to increase haste?
spice surge
You can procc it, but its not great
slender spade
Aight, much appreciated!
fresh ginkgo
i use that 385 piece for first dance
spice surge
It says "spells and abilities"
fresh ginkgo
for sub
slender spade
Aye, but later on it says "cast 3 different spells"
lone junco
My Ghuun log is coming it at 99% ilvl. Do most rogues run orbs, or is my SS exang in beam really that strong?
dusky fulcrum
seize the moment is 3 different spells yes
nimble tartan
Yeah
lone junco
Best was 2%. we are like 30 sec out.
dusky fulcrum
i know cause i just read it after getting my THIRD 385 shoulders REEEEEEE
nimble tartan
12z2z
slender spade
^
lone junco
I got double dd in my bags. Can't use yet due to archive in the wrong spot.
dusky fulcrum
i have 395 boots with gem, but i dont have my 2nd mythic uldir dagger or any 385 head/chests
and i clear like 5+ m10+ a week
😦
still no galecaller or die above 355 aswell
fresh ginkgo
got my first boon last night after running shrine for an eternity
dusky fulcrum
i got a 350 boon O.o
i got dead-eye spyglass in chest
thats my only "upgrade" from chest
fresh ginkgo
375 while i seen people got it from the same group
dusky fulcrum
oh btw, wanna know what my most titanforged item is? can u guess? 😄
fresh ginkgo
with a 395 titanforge with a socket
lone junco
Got a Socket Dice with avoidance in my box 2 weeks ago. 👌
fresh ginkgo
_>
lone junco
welfare loots tbh
fresh ginkgo
on a WW monk
dusky fulcrum
dusky fulcrum
i cry inside everytime i see it
fresh ginkgo
thats one hell of a titan forge
lone junco
+2 lol
dusky fulcrum
ye, its the highest titanforge ive ever gotten since they put it in during wod (was thunderforge in ToT in mop)
past harbor
I got a 380 dice from chest
past harbor
no socket 😦
dusky fulcrum
well thats just 40 less haste lol
no big deal :p
id take a 370 over a 360 with socket anyday
past harbor
really?
fresh ginkgo
need to farm freehold now for a good dice 
past harbor
I felt sockets were like 15ilvl or something around there
dusky fulcrum
depends on the item
370 has higher stats from proc than 360
and like 20 more base agility
smoky topaz
what traits do you guys use for m+ ;)?
rugged jetty
3xss
lone junco
3xss
spice surge
Yes
past harbor
shiii
what about in uldir? 2AoT + 1SS?
I feel like SS is so valuable in uldir even on ST bc of the extra CP
lone junco
Sim your self.
fresh ginkgo
all these 370 caches but no ss traits
lone junco
Sim doesn't account for Ghuun burst.
fresh ginkgo
need shoulders bad
past harbor
@fresh ginkgo i feel you
fresh ginkgo
i mean got a ss trait from weekly for chest
the helmet from world boss..
just using archives for now 😦
ocean marten
what are the guidelines for using exsang?
cinder gale
At the risk of sounding stupid... I looked up the traits, and comparing them to wowhead, they're way off (I trust RH more) but RH doesn't have any charts that I could find in all the pins of like... a list of good azerite traits, it just has the ones you should aim for, is there an updated/current list of best azerite traits by ranking?
primal gazelle
depends on which piece, my 365+Socket ring has more stats than my 385 ring, prob due to no agi
lone junco
@cinder gale the lists you seek are at herodamage dot com.
cinder gale
thank you!
lone junco
Then you select default for TB and exang for exang.
cinder gale
is that pinned somewhere that I missed?
lone junco
There are pins everywhere. Prob written in the RH guide.
tidal sedge
21% haste feelsgoodman
for stat weights you just do 5 boss for 40 seconds yeah?
for like m+ situations
crisp hollow
hey guys, my MA + TB setup is simming pretty close to my Sub+Exsang setup. On non-mother/taloc fights should I just default to the gearset with SS for adds/burst windows or are there situations where I'd want the longer consistency?
TB at 5min: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mkoeefERHfSSUMbWEL4KH4
Exang at 5min: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7W3mR2f9jRy7FPXMnsUmQ
Exsang at 3min: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4zqWf3E8a1aZrp7EzvGw78
TB at 3min: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iRrfi2PM7TJwwrBiCcUP6E
opaque grotto
Jesus
crisp hollow
yeah sorry if that was spammy
crisp hollow
looking at logs doesn't help much because TB and exsang are both well represented haha, usually i'd just check there
round harbor
Just feelycraft for yourself
crisp hollow
yeah as it stands i guess i'd be looking at fight durations and add spawn times
I think TB would be more ideal for mythrax for example cuz it goes on forever and lines up with big add spawn
primal gazelle
i "feel" like MA is easier to use
with SS, you have to hold vanish for add spawns to fully optimize your dps output
crisp hollow
i personally don't like MA too much because sometimes i don't crit and my heart breaks
primal gazelle
like vectis... the spawn is like 25-30 sec in, idr, so you have to hold vanish for a while
and then it desyncs your vendetta
round harbor
Just ma the boss yeet
Fuck the first few adds tbh
I put dots on them but they die so fast I ain't throwing no envm in there lol
primal gazelle
i dont target them either, just rupt and garrote, but if you want to fully optimize your vanish empowered SS garrotes, that would be the way to go
its annoying tho, which is why MA is "easier"
crisp hollow
vectis sucks for me lol either i hardswap to adds and lose damage or i keep tunnelling and add doesn't die in time
its like all my other dps coordinate to fuck me
because it usually dies hella fast
primal gazelle
you know whats frustrating
parsing on zul
😦
1 padding non-rogue can fuck up the parse for 3-5 rogues
crisp hollow
i came so close but these PADLORDS killed the crawgs too fast and left me with an 87
our frost mage ranked #2 on that fight 🤔 wonder who could've done it 🤔
i need to have more than 1 pull on zekvoz this goddamn 37 parse is a stain
actually uldir in general is just ugly for WCLogs with mother, zek, zul and ghuun
give me a complete lack of melee mechanics next tier a la nighthold
primal gazelle
nighthold was the best tier
melee no mechanics just yolo on boss and aoe adds
logs will reset anyways in a few weeks when 8.1 releases
crisp hollow
yeah that'll be the time to parse
gonna request ahead of time to be put in for every boss
spice surge
They dont dymanically update ranks on release days typically, but idk about patches which reset
IE if i dayraid and get a 100% on the first day of the reset they still dont really update their ranks until the evening so afterwards it says like a 96% or something
Whereas later on if you get a 100% it will show up as 100% on your profile all the time
sullen sphinx
What is a respectable amount of haste? Before origination stacks. I’m in the process of switching from sub. I have his traits for sub and good itemization. I have some Haste gear to switch in and 1 archive 2x SS traits. My sin and sub sims are pretty much the same. Would I need more than 14% haste for sin to do its work and pull ahead or is it my traits. Talking about in uldir here, not mythic plus.
Bis*
Also, ilvl on my azerite pieces are equal between the two specs. I’m 377 as sin and 376 as sub
sullen sphinx
Cool. Sorry for the wall of text, just see ppl with drastically higher sin sims vs sub and I’m trying to figure out where my sin setup is lacking or if my sub setup is just really good
primal gazelle
i think sin in general just sims higher
just based on many sims ive seen posted here lol,
getting a galecaller will boost your dps by alot as sin
sullen sphinx
Yea that’s what I’m saying, my sin sims at the same as my sub spec
cold dragon
@ionic charm @spice surge thanks for the help! Blue parse on first Fetid kill https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rqRDcyLVfZwnvGNH/#fight=last&type=damage-done
primal gazelle
just stack as much haste as possible
slate bear
hey guys, u should take gemhide or footpad for m+?
sullen sphinx
Ok yea that makes sense. I’m using 370 fetid trink and fathoms. Great for sub not great for sin lol
primal gazelle
ya a 370 galecaller will give you 400-500 dps over any other trinket
coral brook
do you guys prefer poison bomb or crimson tempest for m+?
candid smelt
I'm not sure if this is on topic, but I updated my UI and my bleeds show up on the target but for some reason my "garrote" debuff doesnt show up and I have no idea how to fix it
@coral brook CT is preferred
strange python
CT only if u do big pulls
zinc zephyr
what's this week's freehold event on EU?
coral brook
Alright, ty frens
crimson sedge
How many targets do u need to have for crimson tenpest
strange python
3+
random scroll
5 to be worth, if you're only pulling 3 mobs the whole dungeon it's not worth it
strange python
But its a lot better if its like 4-5+
crimson sedge
I c
random scroll
You are a bit energy starved when trying to keep up ct on 3 targets
civic cedar
Do u still use envenom in that situation? Or replace it by CT as CP dump?
strange python
Envenom
random scroll
You don't envenom on 5 you have to keep 5 ruptures and spam ct
sand ridge
after system shock nerf is it still worth using?
strange python
No u dont spam CT on 5
random scroll
You keep ct up
And bleeds up
Which already cap your gcds
Not spamming you're right
civic cedar
If u get rly lucky with FoK procs then not
random scroll
In that case you compare your ct initial damage to an envenom
Ct initial X number of targets
civic cedar
So u don't take the poison apply buff into account?
random scroll
Compared to one envenom
civic cedar
Is basicly what I'm asking ;p
random scroll
It does 0 damage on aoe honestly
civic cedar
Awesome thanks!
strange python
Do not use CT over env at 5 targets
strange python
Because thats what the APL says\
civic cedar
I thought that envenom buff still buffed the chance to apply poison with fok so it would be worth it over CT initial dmg
strange python
It is
civic cedar
I like your reasoning though xD why? BECAUSE ITS WRITTEN! XD
verbal nimbus
millions of iterations will do that
strange python
spice surge
I mean, most of the time simc is written that way because its the best
Not because they rolled a die on how many targets to do things at
topaz notch
In a opener, as troll rogue, where should i use my berseriking? right after vendetta?
civic cedar
Haha @spice surge I get that but it's no answer to the question why it is like that 😜 still helpfully though
spice surge
Because it provides more damage is not a good answer? 🤔
civic cedar
It's a bit like why is the sky blue? Because if I compare it to all the colors it shows me it's blue.
That's no reason for why it is like that
tulip wedge
anyone help me with taloc log? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zBAKmPnXW7wcYNC3#fight=19&type=damage-done&source=258
civic cedar
But it's not rly important is it 😬 rly appreciate the help 😗
spice surge
??? what thats not relevant at all
CT does more damage than envenom at higher targets, because CT does fairly good initial damage
Its not random guessing
random scroll
As I said, compare CT initial damage multiplied by the number of target and compare it to one envenom
primal gazelle
does spamming ct mean ignoring ruptures? or just casting CT over envenom after 5+ ruptures?
topaz notch
@tulip wedge what do u want to know? im a shitty rogue but i might have a chance on knowing what u need to know xD
random scroll
If your CT does 2k and you have 5 target, it'll do 10k
if your envenom does 12k
which is my case
then you envenom
over the spam
not over keeping the bleed up
and the prio is to have ruptures rolling for energy purposes
strange python
You'll maybe have time to cast 1or 2 envenoms on 5 targets
Other than that, its just keeping up ruptures and ct
random scroll
nvm my envenom does nothing with my m+ build
tulip wedge
Want to know if its my traits holding me back from parsing or something wrong with rotation/fight. I suspect i might be conservative on damage to elevator adds
random scroll
9500 for 1 envenom
2500 for one CT initial damage
for 5 targets it'd be 12840
strange python
Your mastery must be low then
random scroll
the envenom buff does actually nothing on aoe
tulip wedge
i can purple parse but i want orange
random scroll
ye
that's why you have to compare yourself
for my case, i'd CT over envenom
on 5 targets
if your envenom does more, then envenom
but the buff itself doesn't do anything
the poison application isn't doing much on aoe
compared to the rest
safe matrix
keep in mind
CT is physical and envenom is magic damage, so armor affects CT but not envenom
rancid junco
should i be pooling energy while waiting on envenom buff to avoid clipping?
random scroll
how much armor does elite mobs have ?
strange python
Envenom magic?
random scroll
yes it's nature
rancid junco
on a M+ mob opener with SS traits, do you let your CP overcap to get as many buffed garrotes off? or do you rupture in between 😮
random scroll
you SS
strange python
@rancid junco Can you think for yourself ? 😮
If you put a rupture in between, u wont get a 3rd garrote in
random scroll
well if someone finds the amount of armor an elite has I'd like to know
rancid junco
lol..
I'm asking cause I'm not sure?
if it's a bigger dps loss to lose the buffed garrote or to overcap CP
random scroll
@safe matrix https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/118uUBO8DhIlkkG9v-00coXBf4BYzjzme18UlHYy6SZ0/edit#gid=326642905
rancid junco
at least I can read the tooltip for envenom and see that it's nature 
damage
strange python
@rancid junco Nice bro 😄
random scroll
i mean 122
safe matrix
I just meant, take that into account. You cant just use the tooltip values.
topaz notch
@tulip wedge well i would not be sad with those logs tbh, seemes u had toxic blade off cd few times longer than necessary, but u log better than me so dont take my advices still xD
random scroll
I did on raid bosses but i was pretty sure it was way lower on elite mobs
so almost negligeable
tulip wedge
@topaz notch ill try to watch blade thanks for looking
quasi ledge
Didn't bleeds always ignore armour? Or was that changed a while ago? :p
pastel harness
ct¿
novel lake
safe matrix
no
oblique smelt
When using Exsanguinate and the haste rune trinket, do i line those 2 up every time even if it means holding Exsa 15 seconds or just use it on CD and hope they line up at some point?
lone junco
guide is missing a section tbh.
oblique smelt
is it in guide? only jsut started really playing with that trinket and exsanguinate
lone junco
it is not.
gusty yoke
Everytime i read that question i lose track of what day it is
brazen prairie
hello i have a q. Does rupture gets snapshotted when cast just before vendetta ends?
safe matrix
no
random edge
do you stack ss or is one enough?
brazen prairie
ty! and does you bleeds get increase dmg when u use pots after they are casted?
lone junco
pots yes. but haste snapshots at exang
cobalt pelican
having to use 1 sharpen trait is killing my will to live
lone junco
I have a -0.0% to drop sharp knife and use DD
brazen prairie
ty
lone junco
i look at the 0.0 to 0.2% range.
cobalt pelican
i'd probably consider it up to like 0.5% but i think my next best set is like -2% or something like that
lone junco
it really really depends on fight timings and vulnerable phases.
I am leaning toward heavy pressure over burst,
but Zul and Ghuun g g g open is just too good.
and I enjoy the vanish exang during sun beam on ghuun.
weary granite
Why do I pop vendeta after the garrote->rupture->garrote on opener instead of during prepull?
spice surge
You want your dots to be up before you vendetta. Spending globals during vendetta on dots isnt ideal
weary granite
does using it after still buff the dots?
spice surge
Envenom isnt a dot though, but yes if you envenom a target with TB up it takes extra damage
weary granite
it's not? The tooltip says it does X damage over 1-6 seconds
verbal nimbus
most dmg nowadays is dynamic, RIP the days of snapshotting
safe matrix
subterfuge snapshots garrote, nightstalker snapshots DoTs cast from stealth, and exsang snapshots bleeds based on initial haste
weary granite
ooooh.....I thought it was a dot + buff...
spice surge
It doesnt snapshot your stats though, only the buff from those things
weary granite
thaanks
lone junco
@surreal torrent This section is actually pretty nice. 👌
verbal nimbus
subbed garrotes dont update dynamically depending on current haste?!
stray patrol
on fetid do you guys use cds on pull if you're on big add duty?
or do you save them for the big add?
lone junco
@verbal nimbus sub garrotes do update dynamically with haste. Until you hit exang
so you want to hit exang AFTER lust or GCB
verbal nimbus
ahhh good to know, havent really ran exsang much
lone junco
that is the beauty of exang. Take a single second left of your haste buff, and then project it forward to the entire duration of the bleed in half time.
so once you drop GCB/EXANG if you leave the circle it is, not a detriment to your SS
it also squeezes a hasted bleed across other 10s use trinkets instead of the original 18 or 23 sec garrotes.
lone junco
did you try getting one from your weekly box?
verbal nimbus
😠
verbal nimbus
lol
waxen osprey
lone junco
as long as you maintain 1 archive, you should sim yo self.
verbal nimbus
if you odnt have anything else with reorigination stacks, then in raid the archive probably betta
but
sim it
verbal nimbus
verbal nimbus
TB is nice, easy to manage