assassination

[velvet kernel]

also with archive you can have it up perma at max

on bosses you dont get 245 agi

[topaz notch]

thats alot of fucking agility tbh

[velvet kernel]

with scent

you can have archive at 20 stacks from the start if you know how

[topaz notch]

attack shit in dungeon and then pop key?

[velvet kernel]

training dummy

turnip

[topaz notch]

ah

but is it still worth it with 2x archive + 1 ss instead of 2 ss + 1 SoB

if u consider the dungeon as 1 big hp pool

instead of creature by creature

[velvet kernel]

i would say yeah 2x archive

but also depends on the key

lol

and affixes

[topaz notch]

yeah ofc but me with not even 1 completed bis set, cant aim for having bis set per dungeon xD

[velvet kernel]

there is no bis

it depends what you have and at what ilvl

[topaz notch]

ofcourse theres bis id say, go for what suits ur content best in general

[velvet kernel]

with forging etc there is not bis

bis traits

but no bis sets

[topaz notch]

well then we have a different meaning of bis set

cause i mean best traits and stat weights for your agenda

[velvet kernel]

stat weights are fluid tho

[topaz notch]

how do you mean

[velvet kernel]

they change

thats why you always have to keep on simming your own stat wieghts

[topaz notch]

yeah but traits are always fluid aswell depending on what ur doing?

so something can still be best for you depending on what content of the game ur doign

[velvet kernel]

so what ring is your bis ring?

[topaz notch]

my rings right now are so low so i cant say wich would be bis

but best upgrade i could get right now would be

[velvet kernel]

that does not make it bis

[topaz notch]

seal of questionable loyalties

lol w.e mate we clearly arguing our definition of BiS

[civic palm]

There's only 1 definition of Best in Slot, there's also Best in BAGS > _>"

[topaz notch]

well my defenition is Best in slot, wich means if the best ring upgrade i can get right now with my current stat weights is the freehold ring

it makes it bis for me

[civic palm]

Best in Slot means that the item is best by weight in that slot given every other possible option, not just what you have.

What you have in your Bags, is Best in Bags.

https://giphy.com/gifs/court-gavel-order-in-the-GPJiTei1LP5WE

[topaz notch]

so the best ring i can get right now is not the best item i can put in that slot

alright

what more can i put in that ring slot

3d dagger?

[civic palm]

...

[topaz notch]

...

[civic palm]

The point of language is to communicate a thought.

If you need to add extra context to make your thought clear, then you need to add that context.

Otherwise your attempt at communicating has failed.

This is #off-topic as fuck, anyway. BiS and Best in Bags are different, stop mangling the language and confusing people.

[topaz notch]

The point of Best In Slot is that its the best item u can have in that slot 😄

for me in this case as i said would be the freehold ring

sorry if something that simple confuses you

[civic palm]

Yes, the best item possible, not just the crap that is in your bags.

I feel like we're both agreeing yet for some reason this is continuing.

_>

[vestal wren]

okay, we can move on with a diffrent discussion yet.

[topaz notch]

because as i said to the first guy, were only arguing our own definition of BiS, then u felt like keep that discussion going

[robust cloak]

Hey guys, have been reading intensely over the last few minutes haha love what y'all are doing!

Do you guys have a specific number of adds at which you start using FoK instead of muti? I've always read 3+ is the number, but I feel like I get more combo points out of using muti and feel smoother overall until probably 5 enemies (more use of high CP envenoms)

[safe matrix]

Check #tc-updates

[civic palm]

you got this Liavreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[safe matrix]

It's been updated recentl but it may be a few comments back about fok usage 😄

[ornate gazelle]

So I've been going through logs and checking out top sin parses and I'm noticing nobody really pooling before Envenoms outside of TB and Vendetta. Is it a negligible dps increase to pool? Reading simc sample sequences shows pooling every envenom outside of TB and Vendetta

[rotund sequoia]

how long does something have to be alive for before casting rupture is worth

for like questing of m+ sometimes things arent alive long enough and it feels more worth to just spend on envenom

[tropic pike]

Do you guys use arcane torrent off cd?

In your rotations

[civic palm]

No IIRC DPS racials are on GCD ye?

[normal spear]

hi. is there a macro for vanish + garrote?

[velvet kernel]

Isn’t vanish on gcd?

So that would not work

[topaz notch]

lol im 352 assa rogue, vs 378 dh, im doing all explosive orbs, hes not doing any orbs, hes overall dps on a +10 is 10k, my overall dps on a dungeon is 8.9k, tank is chainpulling 5-6 packs so i loose alot of dmg, and still this dh flames me that i suck

for having low dmg

live love laugh

[rotund sequoia]

just link him dmg to explosive orbs

[topaz notch]

yeah i did, response was

ur pathetic - u make me laugh

alot

some people guys, some people

xD

it was Atal'dazar and i even outdpsed him on rezan and Vol'kaal

[velvet kernel]

Gj?

[topaz notch]

what u mean Gj?

its a story about how some people can really step on your nerves in this game

[velvet kernel]

Then put it in offtopic 🙂

[topaz notch]

Alright sorry for that

[pliant nest]

hey is there a reason to macro galecaller's with vendetta rather than exsanguinate?

[topaz notch]

@velvet kernel whats ur ingame name? ur rogue?

[velvet kernel]

Nyuro

[spice surge]

@pliant nest well yes, vendetta and gcb line up together so every other use of gcb the macro will work while gcb and exsang does not line up

[pliant nest]

alright thanks

[deep meteor]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

@ornate gazelle yeah, outside TB[..] it is up to you

[twin thorn]

Hello there, is there any soft cap on Haste or crit?

[strange python]

no

[twin thorn]

Ok ty

[haughty flame]

how m any people would swap a SS for a DD for 140increase in dps

just cause i hate the change in rotation

[delicate crater]

I sim about 100 higher with 2x Archive then I do 1 Archive 1 SS, but I use SS

[haughty flame]

++

[grizzled jay]

Ive gotten pretty used to raiding without SS. Master assassin is pretty cool in the opener.

[haughty flame]

blegh i hate master

[grizzled jay]

Then dont play with it. Unless ure cutting edge raider 100 simmed dps wont matter

[delicate crater]

I'm very trail limited in the helm slot though

Trait

[spice surge]

🤷 Its not like SS actually affects your rotation substantially

2 or 4 extra CP every 2 mins

[winter fog]

how do you use GC with exsang and vendetta? Do you delay exsang to match up with GC every time?

[spice surge]

No

Use em both on cooldowns

[rocky vine]

can someone tell me what are best traits for pvp on assa?>

[spice surge]

With the exception of second vendetta which should be used with vanish (which also lines up with exsang at 2.25ish)

@rocky vine #pvp but 2 scent and 1 ss

[rocky vine]

@spice surge ty bruh

[vocal wave]

Is there anyone who is able to have a look at my prog Vectis logs, and how I am performing up to the points we wipe, mainly my rotation on the add and on Vectis? And tbh, if they have a bit more time, any general looks at my logs to see how I do would be great

[candid smelt]

so quick discussion

I'm torn between haste or critical

haste is preferred, but I feel like I get more dmg out when using critical

Im also referring to being in Uldir

[lone junco]

Exang SS is going to be haste. But if you are using tb with twist or dd. You may seeing a shift to crit.

In legion we could choose crit over mastery due to ep uptime. Bfa hasted bleeds and heavy white will always keep gaining with haste. You can try and force a top gear set of all your best crit. See if you can get like 35 % and see what the dps avg is. If you can completely change the stat profile to crit and not lose more than 1%, it may feeel Better

[spice surge]

Bleeds didnt get any benefit from mastery in legion

Only poison

Master assa does lower crits value a little bit

[slate bear]

is it pos that Swirling Sands better for m+ than archive of the titans?

[rocky notch]

I wouldn't use swirling, its 1 ppm

[inner pecan]

"In legion we could choose crit over mastery due to ep uptime" ??????

No one ran EP in Legion lol wtf are you talking about

[spice surge]

Exsang used EP

[inner pecan]

and barely anyone played exsang

[royal lantern]

didnt you need a shitton of crit for exang too work?

[spice surge]

Well no, you just didnt need any mastery nor haste

[somber dock]

What should be the haste goal for sin? Just started sin and i'm at 14% haste. Feels slow

[spice surge]

It always feels slow, its intended to be slow

[somber dock]

just switched to sin*

[inner pecan]

As much as you can have on ST basically

It's your best ST stat and doesn't really ever get worse

It's not going to make things feel much faster though, like Eleem said

[somber dock]

okay good. What's your haste %? Just curious

I know its never going to be sub, but i feel like i have more downtime than i should

[inner pecan]

just follow your sim

[lone junco]

@inner pecan if you didn't see people playing ep that's not my fault. After the bb mut buffs people were running Bracer boot tb at 55 crit.

[inner pecan]

if you were talking exsg then yeah you're right but ep was very rare outside of that

when I first read ur sentence tho I thought you were talking legion in general that's mb

mp was used like 95% of the expansion was my only point really

[lone junco]

Tyra and tisumi both ran ep for mythic argus.

Right. He was asking about picking crit over haste. It's a choice. Probably a dps loss at this point.

[alpine garden]

!ss

[karmic ingot]

@lone junco bloodmallet shows 40/40/10/10 for haste/crit/mastery/vers as the optimal secondary distribution for MA/TB build. Haste is going to continue to be strong no matter what build you’re running I think.

[strange python]

Hey im pretty new to this discord and I´v started playing rogue ifor the first time and obviously I wanna improve especially my assa spec can someone maybe help me out a lil bit ?

[spice surge]

@strange python Check the pins and the guides, they provide most of the basics, if you still have any question dont hesitate to ask here

[alpine garden]

Did they fix it then? Or did I get the command wrong? 😛

[spice surge]

Fixed a couple weeks ago

[alpine garden]

Noice

[strange python]

thanks will do , thanks for being so open and nice towards inexperienced player 😃

[spice surge]

I mean that bloodmallet thing doesnt mention azerite traits

I assume its using double doses

But different traits favor different stats (eg ttk favors more mastery)

[karmic ingot]

That’s a good point. Im not sure what they’re using.

[lone junco]

@karmic ingot Best is a range. There is probably a higher crit profile within 1-2% of "best". And that can be player preference. But I agree. I like haste right now, but always willing to look at other builds.

[spice surge]

And mastery is going to be more useful when you can get 2 different traits that scale with it

In 8.1

Even then, it doesnt really matter what stats you have

[lone junco]

Got a 370 dd and 370 twist recently. Looking forward to something without garrote.

Real key to dps is having 9+ sockets.

[karmic ingot]

Lol yeah. Sockets are dope.

[subtle root]

remember when sockets were baseline

[alpine garden]

and colour coded

[karmic ingot]

I just crafted 385 pants last night. My 370s has a socket and avoidance. It makes my new pants feel like much less of an upgrade.

But they’re crit/mastery and my guild is going to be working on Zul this week, so that’s a nice thing to have.

[subtle root]

i only have one piece with a socket, and its vers/mast

[lone junco]

I have 5-6. They are pretty nice.

[errant mauve]

is blood rite a decent azerite trait?

[lone junco]

It was a top sim choice for me once. But not one you want.

Top gear will set you free.

My new favorite trait is 3x prydaz for weed picking.

Train all the mobs. Insta pick and keep moving

[strange python]

its a weird question but I know how to sim my character but I cant really work with the informations given is there a quick guide somewhere ?

[lone junco]

1. Simulationcraft addon.
2. Raidbots top gear. Paste info.
3. Select a number of your best traits for 3slots.
4. Smart sim. Patchwerk.

If you pay for the sub, you get more iterations and can add tb/exsang. +. Ma/subterfuge.

[strange python]

ah I see

[lone junco]

And watch the sim bounce back and forth from SS exang to dd ma tb.

[inner pecan]

you use whatever gearset gives you the biggest number

at it's most basic that's all it really is

[lone junco]

I choose the 2second one on my list.

[strange python]

I guess in my tiny mind I thought its gonna be rocketscience

[lone junco]

It was a 0.0% loss. But allowed me to have 3ss in m+

[inner pecan]

lol well there's def more advanced stuff you can extrapolate from it as you learn it

but just simming top gear is a good starting point 😃

[strange python]

guess so , dont have high gear anyways just started 2 weeks ago

[inner pecan]

I'd say until you get to about 370 ilvl just worry about getting higher ilvl pieces

[lone junco]

When you look at the top solutions. Keep an eye out for any that are within 0.1% of the best. Decide if that is something you want to play.

Right.

[strange python]

well im at 364 right now

[lone junco]

1archive will carry a lot. But you need to raid to get it.

Just started. 364. I'm still only 366. Rip.

16.1k ish.

[strange python]

I mean i literally got carried through hc

[inner pecan]

Azerite and trinkets should be what you focus on next

From raid you probably want the fetid chest, zul shoulders, vectis helm

[lone junco]

St is fathoms + GC. Or dice. GL with that in short order.

[inner pecan]

Traits to look out for are Double Dose, Shrouded Suffocation, Archive of the Titans

[strange python]

got dice on +8

[inner pecan]

Trinkets to look out for are Galecallers above all, Dice/Spyglass are good for 2nd trinket or just the BoE trinket Fathoms

[strange python]

I went into double SS and once Archive of the Titans

[inner pecan]

that's very good for m+

[strange python]

kinda felt like the most dmg to me

[inner pecan]

SS is theoretically not the best on Patchwerk ST, but in practical use it is very strong

And as soon as multiple targets appear it is best above all

[strange python]

highest key i can run without being useless is 11

anything above i feel completly out of place

[inner pecan]

Well at 364 just worry about spamming 10s and fill in the gaps in your gear

With 2x SS you should run Exsg if you're not already

And Crimson Tempest in most keys

[strange python]

yeah I switched to crimson already felt like it was better in mythic+

but the TB vs Exsg is hard to judge for me at least

[inner pecan]

Well SS is usually best with Exsg

and you're running 2 of them

but follow your sim for ST

For m+ I'd run Exsg even if it was a ST loss though

It has more practical usage in that setting

[strange python]

thanks for clearing this up

will look more into it but thanks for the early help actually helped

[tropic pike]

Scent of Blood > Blood Rite correct?

[strange python]

Sim it 😃

[tame rampart]

do 2 earthlink traits stack?

[spice surge]

yes, every trait stacks

The damage or stat part of them do, but not the other parts

[tame rampart]

I see thanks

[remote oak]

Xsang or tb for M+

[tame rampart]

Do you guys think double elemental whirl is better than earthlink?

[strange python]

Sim urself

[frail wasp]

@tame rampart Sim for both.

[agile tulip]

hey, with crimson tempest how do you open on aoe? 3xgarrot into ruptures or immediately crimson tempest?

[strange python]

Depends

Check APL

[drifting elbow]

i just do ggg ct

[strange python]

You dont always do that

[drifting elbow]

sure u dont but its simpler than dotting one after one

[strange python]

What about energy regen

🤔

[drifting elbow]

quite often i have to avoid shit from mobs doing, so i just CT first then rupture

[lone junco]

I do the ggg Ct. FOK FOK r. Exang. FOK FOK r. Try and maintain 4-5 ruptures.

[drifting elbow]

energy regen is barely an issue with such close starting setup

[strange python]

How is it barely an issue when you purposely run lower haste on m+

[lone junco]

Tends to be plenty of dps for 4-6t packs.

[drifting elbow]

well i dont have issues with my energy with my way

🤷

[strange python]

Whats your haste?

[drifting elbow]

12%

[lone junco]

Went back to 3ss. Great choice for me.

[drifting elbow]

running with gale trinket

[lone junco]

Aoe apl doesn't Ct until about 0:15. I think that's a bit late. I prefer the ggg Ct.

[drifting elbow]

thats certainly pretty late

[strange python]

Depends on targets too

[lone junco]

But I also spread with low cp ruptures.

[drifting elbow]

i wonder if priorites rupture more

[lone junco]

It does a proper double rupture exang.

Which i completely rather a Ct than the pandemic rupture in aoe.

And it is holding 4cp+ ruptures.

But now that it finally does ggg. I will go back through the effort of modding the cp threshold for rupture and the t<x for Ct refresh.

In prepatch due to hit value t<9s was best in 6t. But not sure what it is rn.

Last time I checked I wasn't confident due to ggr.

[drifting elbow]

from what im seeing, using CT after ggg provides little more dmg than rupturing since energy issues are similar times anyway

as long u rupture after CT, there shouldnt be big issues

🤷

[strange python]

On more than 3 targets, probably

[drifting elbow]

yeah this is from 4T dummies

[civic herald]

guys returning player here. was reading that crt is first for AOE, that means M+ ? dont have much time for raid i guess so im trying to focus on m+

[strange python]

Stat weights

4-6targets 40sec-1min

[drifting elbow]

just running top gear is simpler

[haughty flame]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bTM5DEbgxetPmDaCktxDTb

i made it mum!

[somber dock]

@civic herald It's a good idea to look into simulating your char if you haven't already. The add-on needed is called Simulationcraft and the webpage that provides the analysis is Raidbots, there you can do a simulation of different combat situations and stat weights etc for those 😃

[civic herald]

@somber dock ty. i have one 100 ilv200 with mantle and a ring legendary. simulation will tell me if a pice of gear is better than that i have ?

[somber dock]

• but yes, from my experience crit > haste for AoE in general. But you'll get exact data regarding your char when simulating.

[civic herald]

lv 110*

[somber dock]

If you use the "top gear" simulation you can compare different pieces of gear and if you have sub to the site you can include talents in that comparison. But if you're 110, i'd recommend just getting to 120 😉

So yes to your question 😃

[civic herald]

ty 😄 !!

[warm sable]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jGhhpCVvZM2PY8hVDrH7FL

[haughty flame]

maynnnnn

i got DD but its chest

waiting for a 370 SS

or 385

[wary reef]

390 dread aspirant ring 😐

[balmy perch]

i cant get a good SS azerite piece from the emmisary chest if my life counted on it. this one today is so bad.

[meager aspen]

5 or 6 piece 370 from emissay : 0 SS

[balmy perch]

same

iu only have 1 ss 370 currently. the chest from fetid

[meager aspen]

Like every rogue

But it's still good with Exsanguish and Galescaller

[drifting elbow]

i keep missing helmet azerites all the time from caches

[balmy perch]

i got a 370 galecaller with a socket lsat night

pretty stoked

[little sandal]

i got a hood of ichor 370 and a cowl of fluid 385 what would be better for M+

[meager aspen]

got my dice 395 but still have galescaller at 365 😦

[willow mulch]

does anyone know if the debuff/buff id for a subterfuge empowered garrote is different from the innate one? looking to make a weak aura reaction to subterfuge garrote

[meager aspen]

@willow mulch I guess no, you just have the tooltip with more damage

[willow mulch]

mm gunna check wago to see if anyones managed to track is somehow

[meager aspen]

you got the garrote debuff and the silence debuff on the target only when you do it sub

[willow mulch]

making a custom power bar that pops up which abilities to use by checking active debuffs and combo points (for fun and maybe to post on wago) would be nice to have the empowered garrote dependency so it knows to let it tick to 0.2

[lone junco]

Just use wa.

[willow mulch]

thats what im doing lol

[lone junco]

Mizerok has a kit.

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[willow mulch]

nice nicee

ill check out his triggers

thank you

thats some nice trigger work using the combat logs to determine wether it was cast from stealth

[flint walrus]

Random question from an outlaw. As a sin simming ST over 5 mins. What's the avarage dps a 380 ish ilvl Sin draws?

[strange python]

17k

[prime stirrup]

your sim should say 17k+ with raid buffs

[flint walrus]

So about the same as an outlaw then

cool

[prime stirrup]

heres my latest sim

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hh9baTBQwq6u7Z1boiE4gJ

[flint walrus]

So 17-17.5

Depending on socket and trait luck yh ?

I thought sins simmed higher than outlaw though

[prime stirrup]

those and trinkets make largest difference from waht ive seen

[flint walrus]

mm

Fathom aint broken for sin ?

[prime stirrup]

theres better out there

[flint walrus]

Glad to hear that

[prime stirrup]

fathoms is great if you dont have dice/galecallers

[flint walrus]

Fathoms sims 200 more dps than any other trinket even if at 390 with sockets :x

For outlaw atm

Glad to hear it aint as anti logical over at sin

[prime stirrup]

darkmoon decks were designed to last the entire tier

[flint walrus]

Still kinda derp that they outsim 390 with socket from uldir

[prime stirrup]

raid trinkets are all shit

[flint walrus]

Fair enough

[prime stirrup]

its sad

[flint walrus]

Fatid one is decent on our end

Fetid *
'

[meager aspen]

What's better ? Exsanguish with 1 SS + Galescaller-Dice or using Dice/Dead Eye Spyglass with Exsanguish/TB ?

Don't tell me to sim yourself, they don't even take care about the wombo combo

[prime stirrup]

it depends on rest of your gear. but for me i sim highest as 1ss gale/dice exsang

I have 385 dead eye in bag but 375 gale is better

[strange python]

why does bloodmallet put SS at the very bottom?

[solid nova]

Because it uses MA

[strange python]

well then

[elder cypress]

do i take 2 azerit pieces with laser for uldir raiding ?

2 laser matrix 1 archieve or the other way around?

[frosty violet]

3x laser matrix gives the best laser light show

[strange python]

@elder cypress Sim it

[frosty violet]

but if you were curious about max dps, then sim

[elder cypress]

so its both useable

[strange python]

Sim it

[elder cypress]

60 dps between these options

wow 😄

[bronze aurora]

Hey does anyone have a WA that yells when you get a poison bomb proc?

[spice surge]

Why would you?

[frosty violet]

It should have the voiceline from Dexter too

Surprise!

[prime stirrup]

are we really back to the, why do you want a PB proc wa? Link him or just dont comment. https://wago.io/Hk1vhe_rM @bronze aurora

[strange python]

Most useless wa imo rofl

[spice surge]

🤷 I just ignore people with such WA's

Even report them for spamming

[prime stirrup]

well im glad the PB police are on it

[spice surge]

I mean you can play with a blanket over your monitor as well

[prime stirrup]

this is really helping your argument

[spice surge]

But 🤷

[strange python]

@bronze aurora Next time use google 😄

[bronze aurora]

Sorry. It wasn't for me :l

I was asking for a raider.. :l

[strange python]

Well then tell him to use google as well 😃

[safe matrix]

Just so you're aware, PB procs on 1/5 finishers pretty much

And does decently negligible damage

[prime stirrup]

But feel free to track it if you would like

[safe matrix]

But you're gonna have the /s atleast once or twice every 20 seconds

[strange python]

got mythic mother dagger Kreygasm

[prime stirrup]

I got my first one on first mother kill. Since then i have looted the bitch 6 times and used 6 tokens. havent gotten a second

[wheat zealot]

/say wa's for poison bomb, what a meme

[strange python]

wait

lmao

[desert vault]

Hmm, hmm what to do tonight on Fetid ... SS/Subt or MA/TB ...

[somber dock]

Does the 80% increased dmg for garrote when using subt talent only go to the first garrote applied or to all garrotes in those 3 seconds?

[spice surge]

All 3

[somber dock]

Thanks man

[primal quest]

is it worth to spam crimson tempest or u wait for 2sec duration to reapply it?

[supple hearth]

SMH I missed the pb wa comments.

[desert vault]

so weird one single crit gem in my sad single piece of gear with a socket takes crit from being most weighted (without gem), with crit gem goes to lowest stat weight

[supple hearth]

@primal quest dont spam it. Use it before it drops off

@bronze aurora it's a bad idea to use a /s for pb. It's considered annoying by a lot of people and the duration/damage is not worth the tank prioritizing his positioning around the rogues pb.

Personally I auto remove anyone in my groups using it.

[willow mulch]

set the poison bomb trigger to whisper yourself

then maybe you get a feel for the annoyance XD

[frosty violet]

I have mine set to spam /s but also filter it out of my own chat, maximum benefit!

[sharp mesa]

is it bad to clip Envenom buffs?

like during Poison Blade, youre supposed to get as many Envenom casts in as possible

but seems like a waste of Envenom buffs

[strange python]

Poison Blade?

You mean toxic blade?

[sick eagle]

Did they fix SS bug?

[strange python]

Yes

[sick eagle]

so we can fianlly cast that 4th garrote

[strange python]

yes

[solid nova]

Yes since October 4th

[sick eagle]

shit I missed that

[rigid sonnet]

heard on some video recently that there was some bug when u used the normal garrote after u had applied subterfuge ones

fucked with dmg or something

that still a thing? or am I safe to apply the normal garrote as I please?

[strange python]

Its not a bug

[rigid sonnet]

I mean on another target

maybe I heard it wrong

[strange python]

There is no bug anymore

[solid nova]

Literally, the above conversation

[rigid sonnet]

was in fragnances dungeon rogue guide

[strange python]

And it only applied to a trait

[sour wasp]

on vectis, what do you guys do on mobs? small rupture+garrote?

[rigid sonnet]

so nothing to fear?

[sour wasp]

i use vanish to add garrote

[rigid sonnet]

free to use the normal reset cd garrote?

[strange python]

Yeah

[rigid sonnet]

neato, tyty

[strange python]

@sour wasp Depends on Talents and traits 😃

[sour wasp]

double dosex2, subterfuge

[strange python]

Mythic?

[sour wasp]

ye

[strange python]

I'd hold first vanish for add to spawn

So you can garrote Boss and add

[sour wasp]

yeah i do that

[strange python]

But I played MA on vectis so 🤷

[sick eagle]

IS Crimson Tempest the preferred choice for this week as well?

[strange python]

Depends on key, team comp, dungeon

[sick eagle]

14+ and above
Got Arms and Mage as other DPS
Well for KR and TL Poison bomb

so besides that CT even with Tyrannical right?

[strange python]

If u need extra dps on trash then ye

[chrome umbra]

CT can be used every week on every affix unless they key is very tiny

[slate bear]

hey, if i play with pb and one scent of blood should i stack more than 3 rupture instead of envenom?

[plucky patio]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[warm geode]

is vanish>rupt>g>g>vend>exsg really sims better then vend>vanish>rupt>g>g>exg mid fight? html reports do the first one, but we r losing 1 or 2 ticks of empowered garrote inside vendetta 🤔

[strange python]

im curious is outlaw straight up better at zek voz mythic ?

[dapper moat]

whats up with mythic mother as a assasination i do my usually almost on spot rotation and i still parse about 60 on taloc i parse 85+ . should i use poison bomb and stay as long as possible with mother or should i aoe spec there and go with adds to new room as one of the firsts?

[willow mulch]

it depends on ur groups strat

[vital haven]

mythic mother is mostly dependant on the strat your raid uses

if you jusr rush to the last room

your dps will be higher

[willow mulch]

^

[dapper moat]

okey

[vital haven]

if you dont

well

[dapper moat]

we dont rush to last

did not even know its possible on mythic ^^

[willow mulch]

yep

disc priest/ shaman/ druid

a few dh's

[vital haven]

maybe should consider going outlaw in that fight if you want a higher parse

[warm geode]

18k club?? Not today
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i4Fn2z8MkscAEfERqE9NV7
if i simc again will enter but, this is funny 😛

[dapper moat]

yeah.. hate to change specs but need to think about it

[willow mulch]

i play all 3 but mainly sin.

[candid mica]

realistically you aren't going to get a better parse on that fight unless your guild goes faster

no matter what spec you are

i wouldn't worry about it too much

[white igloo]

@dapper moat id just go pb and sit mother

Orange parses are hard to get on that fight

Make sure you have full garrote and rupture on her before you change sides

[dapper moat]

ok ty m8

[frosty gyro]

If you want a high parse just tell your raid leader to let you stay in the room with the boss so you can pad 👌

[random scroll]

do the strat where the whole raid crosses at once

and burst shit down

[frosty gyro]

Sin's AOE is pretty trash in that ascenario though better to stick with mother

Some people are using Hidden Blades for it though if everyone crosses at once

[random scroll]

ye the highest you can is sitting mother in the first room

and burst adds with hidden blade in the last one

it's pretty much 20 targets

with 6 of them that last a little longer

[frosty gyro]

Don't really need HB if you're sitting on boss PB is fine

[random scroll]

well you can get one use in the second room when the second group of 10 people crosses

and then in the last with 20 targets

but ye poison bomb is doing just fine

[frosty gyro]

Top 3 parses are PB I think because they go through the first wall in groups of 2 then pop healer cds for second wall asap

[dapper moat]

once again so much input and intel here, once again many thanks 😃

[willow mulch]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[jagged dragon]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[ionic charm]

got a 395 fetid trinket and its not worth using over 375 dice ayyyy

[echo cargo]

Uldir is such a disappointing raid lootwise and balancewise

[civic palm]

Seems fine.

[inner pulsar]

Evening all

[marsh bloom]

you guys think smaller pulls would be better for sin

and bigger pulls would be better for outlaw?

[ionic charm]

generally, but depends on how long they live

[marsh bloom]

Cause this week has been like ok

4 enemies cc 2 and kill the other 2
Outlaw Rogue's: WTF???

[scenic jetty]

Hi all. Curious on some parses for Heroic Zul...some rogues hit 2MM dps in the first 10 sec...their logs show they hit 20-30 different actions in the first second? Am I reading that right? Check Turkmike, Heroic Zul #1.. how is that dine?

[safe matrix]

It's bugged

[civic palm]

No.

[karmic ingot]

If you look at the casts timeline for that parse, he has overlapping GCDs. So either the log is bad and will get removed or Warcraft logs has a display bug.

Actually, I think it’s a bad log.

[safe matrix]

Meh I went ahead and tossed it into the wcl discord

[desert vault]

what's the general idea for Fetid on CDs for big add? don't use CDs on opener and only adds?

[crisp shard]

Depends on how your group allocates CDs

Either you hold vendetta for 1st and 3rd add or you use Pull-2nd add-Execute boss

[spiral snow]

Hi guys, I just killed vectis mythic for the first time this week. I finished with around 12.3k at 374 ilvl. I looked on wclogs and I see ppl at my same ilvl do like 3-4k more than me. Is that due to them understanding tactics better or am I clearly doing something horrible?

[crisp shard]

Linking logs is the only way anyone can know what you are doing right/wrong

[rocky notch]

i'm sure you got 3rd intermission if it was your guilds first kill

which will hurt dps considerably even without looking at your logs, after that I'd assume you probably didn't have high enough uptime on vectis dots and let them drop when add was up

[spiral snow]

let me see if we still have the link for the logs

hmm you might be right too bored. also, I was keeping vanish for first ad, is that efficient or bad?

[crisp shard]

Yes you vanish first ad after every intermission

if you run shrouded+Subt

With MA you use it in pull

[spiral snow]

yes, 2x ss 1 archive: 385 archive because vectis helm and ss are 370 both

running subt exsang, got a 370 gale and a 365 haste socket harlan if that helps with anything

[crisp shard]

2x SS isnt optimal, would look for another trait

[rocky notch]

exsang kind of sucks for vectis unless it's on farm

[spiral snow]

double dose? or would you recommend smt else?

[rocky notch]

and you just use it on vectis and say fuck add damage

[crisp shard]

Exsang is really good on Vectis wtf ?

[rocky notch]

tb lines up for adds

[crisp shard]

Ye but running TB with double SS is a big nono

[spiral snow]

I never exsang the ad as I saw that the bleeds would not fully run out on the ad

idk if thats fine

[crisp shard]

and Exsang is far away better on 2 target cleave

[spiral snow]

btw ty for helping out guys, im trial in that guild and I really wanna have good logs to become a core raider

[rocky notch]

for parsing sure, you exsang vectis and dump the energy on add

but for prog tb lines up better for add damage

[crisp shard]

Ye but they killed it, so add dmg was probably fine, what he was asking was "why my dmg so low"

[spiral snow]

ye ad dmg was fine, we were wiping on ppl getting too many stacks and bad double vectors

so should I still go tb next week or just keep to exsang?

[crisp shard]

Send your name-server in PM and I can give some tips

[strange python]

Feeling so spoiled with my 2 385 SS pieces... Anyone wanna trade for a DD?

[proper zealot]

I have a 385 Double Dose chest, if you'd like.

[strange python]

Please

Helll, Ill even throw in a 385 Galecaller

[karmic ingot]

I got SS helm and DD helm for 2nd and 3rd weekly M+ chests. Sad part is, I only completed a +9 for those two weeks so they’re both 370 😦

[strange python]

rip

[devout wharf]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[proper zealot]

@strange python Deal! I don't have a Galecaller's yet, but that's because I really don't run too many Shrine keys.

[prime cosmos]

is it best to run archive of the titans, laser matrix and one shroud for uldir? or do i go item level?

[inner pecan]

neither of the above

check out https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/ for azerite rankings on ST

generally the very best on pure ST is Double Dose with 1 Archive to enable Array buff

[prime cosmos]

interesting i didnt know about this site

thank you sir, i shall investigate

[strange python]

@prime cosmos Note that Herodmg use Master Assassin talent. So if you are running Subterfuge, the numbers will be fukked for you

Best is to sim yourself

[inner pecan]

there's an Exsg profile

[prime cosmos]

i use ask mr. robot to sim myself, is that any different from simc?

[inner pecan]

yeah it's bad

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot

@strange python

[strange python]

I know

But a first time user maybe would have missed it

Those sites are good ways to point you in the right direction, its all gear dependant so might aswell just sim

[prime cosmos]

thank you both for the info

[strange python]

np my man

PM if you need help with settings on raidbots

[daring iron]

exang is good with 2x shrouded, tb is good without

[prime stirrup]

exsang is good with 1x SS

[desert vault]

prolly need to swap to exsang for this unfun times with Fetid

[cobalt gyro]

any particular reason why my sim is saying a venom rush/mfd build is best for a 6 target/40s sim, cause to me that just sounds awful to run

[sturdy python]

Also makes no sense since yo wouldn't be using mutilate

Maybe try the herodungeon custom apl that's pinned in the sub channel

[cobalt gyro]

right, that's what i;m thinking, unless it's something about the energy gained in that period being worthwhile over other talents

[serene basin]

should i use the same enchant on both daggers or haste on main hand and crit on off hand?

[cobalt gyro]

best and 2nd best stat

doesn't matter which

[serene basin]

gotcha

[spiral snow]

using same enchant on both weps is bad due to diminishing returns

[cobalt gyro]

using the herodungeon apl it still sims best for me

by 2.7%

[lone junco]

@cobalt gyro vr and the other options are in the thinnest margin of error in aoe. I saw the same thing, yet it cast 0 env

even if it were 0.01% more in aoe, it is a loss to any prio st over Exang.

but i saw the same thing.

[cobalt gyro]

yeah i'm just unsure why it's simming higher at all - on 6 targets why is it casting mutilate

[lone junco]

its not

so a dead trait i guess

[cobalt gyro]

if it's not then it's doing nothing, which would mean that literally not taking a talent is an increase over exsang according to the sim

[ruby idol]

Just means that tb and exsang dont increase your overall dps at 6 targets

Which makes sense, they're prio target talents

[lone junco]

basically the Exang in aoe acts as a mini E rush to help spread ruptures. probably lost over time by the 40s mark. but the real value is not in the SIM but in the Real Actual Prio dps rip

want to fuck that specific mob right there? vendetta exang prio

[ruby idol]

Mfd is what is cutting exsangs overall value most likely

You have ct and 4 bleeds out insta

[lone junco]

if all pulls were >6t we would stack crit and use DS and only throw fok. but meh. we have to balance 1t and 4t and 8t and >> if you have a giga tank.

[meager mason]

heya boyz! anyone still here? 😃

any reason to go on some haste in m+? I'm currently stacking on Crit/Mastery (30% Crit/40% Mastery/7% Haste) - I just have the feeling that i need some more haste for bosses in M+

[prime stirrup]

thats stupid low haste

it really depends on your comp

i assume youre blowing trash up and slacking on boss dmg

for m+ keys i run 26/16/30

crit/haste/mast

[oak tangle]

i know that race choice is next to negligible, but why on the sims by race, is night elf down the bottom? do they not count shadowmeld as empowering garrotes?

[prime stirrup]

it doesnt from what i remember. Thought only sub benefitted from ne trait

[civic palm]

Not in raids as you do not drop combat.

[oak tangle]

weird, cause i have been using shadowmeld in raids fine

[prime stirrup]

I would trust miz's answer

[civic palm]

Not to any good.

[oak tangle]

shadowmeld has nothing to do with dropping combat, it's taking damage that removes it, and almost 100% of the time i can get a shrouded empowered garrot off with shadowmeld

[civic palm]

On a Training Dummy?

[oak tangle]

no in raid

[civic palm]

Cuz I'd like to see you get Subterfuge to trigger from Shadowmeld.

[oak tangle]

well... im getting the bonus cp's from SS when i do it

so i assume its triggering subterfuge

[prime stirrup]

when no other sin rogue is doing it its probably because it doesn't work

[civic palm]

I mean if it works it works.

[prime stirrup]

From what i remember it works with Sub by letting you cast SS and SoD

[oak tangle]

i mean it is finicky, I imagine on fetid it would be more difficult with the ticking dot. but for mother and taloc, zekvos and stuff. i consistently manage to get SS to proc when i do it

[civic palm]

Yeah SS doesn't require Stealth Stance it seems.

Even though the tooltip literally states it does.

[oak tangle]

hmm ok, so not proccing sub, but giving ss bonus

[civic palm]

Seems like it.

outside anyway

[oak tangle]

small bonus i guess

[civic palm]

queue'd for LFR will see when that triggers

[oak tangle]

i mean i dont get the 3 seconds after stealth thing, so sub not really working on that end. i jsut wonder if it buffs garrote though

[civic palm]

Yeah I mentioned Subterfuge isn't triggered because you're not actually in Stealth.

[oak tangle]

my bad, i wasn't sure about the subterfuge tooltip. (still new to wow)

[civic palm]

It's dumb, not your fault.

[oak tangle]

i was considering swapping to void elf, was why i brought it up originally, i suppose if it's only SS getting buffed, then the class passive for void elf should be better right?

[civic palm]

SS seems to work in Raid as well, getting ~2700 Garrote hits from Shadowmeld with Elaborate Planning to buff.

So yeah I can confirm all that.

Just no Subterfuge.

[oak tangle]

good to know, means i need to adjust my refresh timings, been cutting subterfuge garrotes short thinking shadowmeld extended them

[pastel wasp]

Let it drop

Find that easier

[proper zealot]

You should be letting "empowered" Garrotes drop, otherwise you'll be losing damage if you refresh them during their Pandemic window with a "non-empowered" Garrote.

[rugged jetty]

Do you want to hold exang until gal callers trinket is up

[topaz spoke]

Hey People, im newish to rogue and need some rotaion help. i feel like i have got my opener right but i seem to have trouble sustaining the damage. when should i be using exang after then opener, do i use off cd meaning i refresh bleeds straight away reguardless of the current time remaining or do i wait until they are dropped enough to refresh for pandemic then use exang

[tribal marlin]

shadowmeld is so good in m+ to pass 😄

plus it's probably the best race for subtely, if you ever want to switch 1 day

Don't delay exsang

[topaz spoke]

So refresh just before it comes up then use of cd?

[round harbor]

@marsh bloom outlaw is good this week if you group lacks killing orbs, or your pugging keys in general

Also good for other reasons even on regular weeks, but I get flamed Everytime I suggest or talk about it in here so I'll just keep quite ;)

[marsh bloom]

thank you @round harbor

[fresh heron]

Thoughts on only having 1 titans, and a double does and a SS traits the way to go or 3 titans? or perhaps a different combo

[vast forum]

3 titans isn't that good

Archive + 2xSS for exsang build, 2x DD for tb (i think, i don't play tb

[strange python]

im playing archive,SoB and SS to m+ or AoE bosses in uldir and its good setup

[fresh heron]

Yeah, I seem to be getting passed up trying to go the 3 titan way, and its rather annoying.

so, im looking for a new azer set up

[strange python]

DD never drop for me i want it for ST bosses

Btw can i find any opinions about new/reworked traits on 8.1?

[cloud grove]

is there a sim tool that looks at gear in you bag as well, to come up with the best set?

[vast forum]

Raidbots top gear

[cloud grove]

cheers Yoppa

[pliant wing]

Well i got 1x Archive and 2 SS, TB sim better than EX, kinda weird

[winter moss]

got 1xss 1xdd 1x archive, tb sims better but infight exsang performs better

know that feel bro

[pliant wing]

yea, i even sim'd with twist and Sharpened on ST with MA, still SS and sub first

dunno why, wich one bug, Herodamage or SIM ?

[frank furnace]

Boys am I seeing this straight. SS trait getting a dmg modifier in 8.1? We buffed?

[warm sable]

I use Archive, DD and SS x1 and TB,Sub not only that it sim better it is better on ST fights ...

[vast forum]

@pliant wing try getting a good gcb, exsang should be better then

[junior fjord]

g'morning guys! it's worth it to lose 15 ilvl for a SS (mostly doing m+)

[vast forum]

Very likely, but you should

[junior fjord]

simmed it 😄 wanted just a second opinion 😄 ty

[pliant wing]

what is gcb ? ( im not english sry 😄 )

[junior fjord]

coming from prot war , u have a 25 ilvl worth trait there 😄

[regal snow]

Galecallers Boon

[pliant wing]

thanks, i try but it never drop 😛

[warm sable]

I have gcb 380 and still tb better 😊

[regal snow]

Same

[pliant wing]

actually i play with phantoms and frenetic

[regal snow]

MA and TB

[lost sentinel]

shrine is a pain to run and it never drops for me either, not since 345 on like week 2 or something

[vast forum]

Do you have 2x SS @warm sable

[warm sable]

Nope 1xSS and 1xDD

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jGhhpCVvZM2PY8hVDrH7FL

[vast forum]

Idk how to get tb to sim better for me... It sims a LOT lower than exsang with my gear, even when i swap out 1 ss for 1 dd

[pliant wing]

dem trinket 😍

[regal snow]

I run 1xDD 1xArchive and 1x Agility azerite stuff

[warm sable]

I think depends on stats not only traits

[meager mason]

So having like 15% haste in M+ should allways be? So I'm not really able to SIM my stats then cause for M+ ill go Patchwerk 6 Bosses 40seconds no buffs/bl

[solid nova]

Well there's no set value and hastes value diminishes on AoE but if you're looking for a ballpark 10-15% is fine.

[grizzled jay]

You should only go for hybrid haste build in tyrannical weeks imo and in dungeons with low mob count like kings rest

You can have 7 %haste in freehold and stack mastery crit and destroy

[strange python]

I got 19% haste solo its a bit high isnt it ?

[sturdy python]

Sim stat weights and see

[drifting elbow]

''can have 7%'' assumes u have a lot of same high ilvl items

like, i clearly dont have an option to get below 12% at all with loots i got 🙃

[tough shale]

Hi! ravenhodlt says:

One or more Shrouded Suffocation powers for Exsanguinate

Garrote
Rupture
Garrote
Vendetta
Mutilate
Rupture
Exsanguinate when talented

why to apply rupture with 3 cp?

I'm new to assa so sorry for that type of questions. Opener seems to be strange

[ornate mantle]

@tough shale for the uptime on rupture

its the same as garrote

when you add the second one it extends it duration to some point

so you get a big exanguinate

and if you pop galecallers trinket and exanguinate

it will be even better

[tough shale]

wow thanks, it makes sense

[ornate mantle]

yw bro

[thorn grove]

Tldr do it for pandemic

[ornate mantle]

yea thats the name

sorry im not really confident with my english :3

[white seal]

Man, having 1x Archive and 2x DD feels amazing in Uldir

[candid jasper]

DD?

ah double dose

[tacit steppe]

how does having DD feel better 🤔

what does it add

[desert vault]

I wish I had DD, more DPS in ST stuff for sure

Bored with SS and only have one

[devout jolt]

I need a second DD, have 2x Archive and 1x DD

[calm grail]

Mythic Vectis still hasnt put out for me yet.

Need my hood.

[strange python]

For multitarget sin I have a couple questions?

[desert vault]

I'm stuck with SS, Archive and Twist at the moment

doesn't feel good at all

[strange python]

For big adds on zek voz do you just swap garrote and 4-5 cbp rupture making sure poison applies and then go back to main target. Swapping back and forth to keep bleeds and poison up?

[desert vault]

Should be focused on priority adds, but if you can swap quick and keep bleeds on Zek, never a bad thing 😃

Depends on prog vs reclear too, reclear = tunnel city in my book 😃

[devout jolt]

we can normally kill the prio add before my bleeds drop off Zek so i quickly reapply and move to add number 2

I say we can, guild just disbanded, so we 'could' is more fitting

[desert vault]

Man, i'm trying to talk myself into playing exsang ... so general idea is always pair up exsang+gcb?

[sturdy python]

Use them on CD for the most part, however when they do line up use GCB before exsang

[desert vault]

I just feel like I have such big pockets of tiny numbers with Exsang that I don't get with TB, but guess Exsang in general is more of a burst

and out of second Vanish? Van > 2x garrote > Vend > Rup > Exsang? Assuming 0 CP into Vanish. Basically same general idea as TB build. Vanish with garrotes, Vend and Exsang after Vend basically

[drifting elbow]

its not exatly a burst

burst is typically related to small window of a lot of dmg, exsan talent only speeds up 2 dots on target

[desert vault]

right, well I dunno TB just feels more even with its output I guess

[vast forum]

It is a 11 sec burst

[desert vault]

but for stuff like Fetid, exsang makes sense

it is 6 DPS different on my sims right now between TB and Exsang

[drifting elbow]

yea its pretty small difference in raid overall

gonna be really specified situations for exsan uses

[vast forum]

Exsang not only increases bleed dmg for the duration, it also doubles your energy generation through bleeds which causes you to pump more direct dmg in that window too

[drifting elbow]

idk about double

but certainly i dont see much difference

exsan doesnt ''increase'' dmg tho

its speeding it up

[spice surge]

Sorta does by a little bit since its easier to keep EP uptime at 100% during the shorter bleed

[drifting elbow]

i dont even follow EP uptime that much

[spice surge]

And you overall gain damage since you can apply another bleed earlier, but it doesnt increase damage in the traditional sense

[summer marten]

it does increase damage for duration as he said, and it also does double energy generation through bleeds, as he said...

[drifting elbow]

it doesnt increase

energy thing is another story

but exsan itself doesnt increase dmg of dot

[sturdy python]

It does increase your damage

[summer marten]

it literally does increase

[spice surge]

Its semantics, it increases dps but it doesnt increase damage

[sturdy python]

It's essentially giving you more rupture damage in a fight

[drifting elbow]

thats overall

not fucking single dot

[spice surge]

Rupture ticks for the same amount regardless of it its exsanged or not.

[summer marten]

as he said... it increases damage for duration... without exsang you would do 50% less bleed damage in that same duration

[spice surge]

It ticks faster, but not higher

[sturdy python]

Yes and it does it in a smaller window

Thus more dps

Thus more damage

[drifting elbow]

ofc its more dps cuz it shortens duration

[summer marten]

no one said it increases tick damage 😛

[sturdy python]

So it's more dps but not more damage?

[drifting elbow]

question was on ''dmg increase from exsan''

which talent doesnt itself do

[sturdy python]

You misunderstood the intent the

[drifting elbow]

[sturdy python]

No one was saying rupture ticks do more damage with exsanc

[drifting elbow]

DMG increase

there is difference between dps AND damage word

[sturdy python]

You said exsang doesn't increase damage

That's wrong, plain and simple

[spice surge]

@desert vault You dont always pair up exsang and gcb

Because their cds are not synced

[drifting elbow]

exsan itself doesnt increase dmg of dots

[spice surge]

you end up losing casts if you do, which makes it not worth

[drifting elbow]

🙃

[sturdy python]

No one said it did

[frail wasp]

Exsang indirectly increases damage

[drifting elbow]

then why the fuck u argue against that sentence

[spice surge]

I mean now you're just arguing about language

[drifting elbow]

its dmg but it isnt

????

[spice surge]

So just stop

[polar drift]

shld garrote be refreshed before exsang?

[sick eagle]

We use crit gems fro M+ right?

[candid mica]

yeah crit is bis in m+

[spice surge]

@polar drift Yeah most of the time, but try not to clip too much duration

So if it has like 16 seconds left its not worth refreshing to 24, but if its at 8 its worth

[polar drift]

ahh icic

[summer marten]

as far as i know, you should refresh before exsang regardless?

[polar drift]

but for rupture its almost certain to always refresh it?

[spice surge]

It pandemics at 6 so go anything close to that

Unless you have like 20s+ on your rupture you should refresh it

[candid mica]

yeah you should always have a full garrote and rupture for exs

[spice surge]

@summer marten Sims doesnt refresh garrote at all

And its a loss to make it do it

🤷

[sturdy python]

No you should not always refresh

[spice surge]

I think it refreshes rupture unless the rupture is at higher than 20 or 22, cant remember which

You would ofc get a stronger exsang if you had full bleeds, but you would need to clip more of your previous dots which you've spent CP and energy to apply (thus essentially wasting cp/energy) which makes it not worth

[outer yacht]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

How do you do hectic add cleave as sin with something like small adds on zek?

[karmic ingot]

FoK, rupture, tab, repeat 2-3x, tunnel boss.

[strange python]

Makes sense

Thx

Garrote on cd if not needed for boss?

[twin meadow]

depends if it lives the full duration

or, most of it

[strange python]

Fairy nuff

[grizzled trail]

are raidbot sims accurate for azerite trait stacking. currently its telling me tidal surge is better than archive of titans?

[drifting elbow]

u got ilvl difference in azerites?

[grizzled trail]

no all 370

and i set the reorigination array to 8 stacks

as thats what i have

[drifting elbow]

well RA works when u have at least 1 laser or archive

unless u r replacing all of those traits away

[grizzled trail]

no id be goin from my current x2surge and 1 archive to 1 surge and 2 archive. i thought it would sim higher as bloodmallet has it way higher

but its showing a 1.8% decrease

[strange python]

Well you don’t stack RA

So there is that

[grizzled trail]

regardless bloodmallet shows it archive way higher

the primary stat part still stacks

normally id just go with sim, but this is first time it simmed different from what i wouldve thought haha

[strange python]

Bloomallet is including ra I think hence why it shows stack number

[drifting elbow]

stacking traits, archive is not better actually

tidal surge isnt shit

there is difference on those traits on how they scale when adding more targets

archive scales better

[grizzled trail]

so bloodmallet is wrong? it shows x2 tidal as 912 dps. archive shows archivex10 at 2361. this is one patchwerk style

[tidal sedge]

pretty sure archive is that much cause its inside uldir only

[grizzled trail]

yeh thats fine. its only uldir im wanting it for

but as i say i set it on the sim

[strange python]

Bloodmallet rofl

Use herodamage

[vapid moth]

@grizzled trail tidal surge does sim higher than archive. The only reason you need at least 1 archive is cause of RA. A second archive will provide no additional benefit

[drifting elbow]

yeah if u were to look pure ST fight

but there is not that many pure ST in uldir

so

archive is better overall

bloodmallet isnt wrong either

its pretty accurate

[strange python]

Only considers 1 build

[drifting elbow]

doesnt make traits values any less valid

its like only SS trait has direct interaction to talent u r using

[spice surge]

Ttk too, but not as much as SS

[drifting elbow]

ttk is hard case to know difference

[strange python]

Double dose?

[drifting elbow]

does double dose 3x make u use specific build?

[desert vault]

Did something change with raidbots? Seems WAY slower than it ever used to be.

[strange python]

Yeah pretty sure DD sims better with TB

[drifting elbow]

logically could be

[sturdy python]

Herodamage also has different build setup for all three specs

[desert vault]

And yeah DD is typically best with DD. That is why, I'm assuming, so many top parses always show TB as most common build cause for raid I think 2x DD beats 2x SS most always

[drifting elbow]

exsan value should still be same value depending on secondaries tho?

[desert vault]

I mean I've seen sims of 375 rogues that are 18k+ with 2x DD ... makes me sad 😦

[strange python]

DD is BiS trait so 🤷

[desert vault]

yeah, I've 2x 325 of them!

heh

[hollow stone]

Dont have the middle ring to upgrade to 330? Better grind that neck 😏

[desert vault]

boy, I think i've broke raidbots ... one sim been running for nearly 8 minutes now

[drifting elbow]

lets see if my sim is faster than urs

[desert vault]

oh crap balls, I had like 3 different ring enchants and gems selected, didn't even notice it

that would be the issue 😃

I was wondering too why I kept maxing out the interations

[drifting elbow]

simming for 8min is extraordinarily long time

i did mine in 1min top when u count in queue time

[desert vault]

Yeah, figured it

On Fetid are ALL sides of the big add considered its back? Might swap to DiTB for it since it does sim like 200 DPS better

[gray stone]

Which dungeon drops best assa daggers?

[desert vault]

Tol prolly, haste/crit

[strange python]

Tol dagger

Get it?

[cerulean depot]

You are forgetting 9 sockets, @desert vault

[desert vault]

I wish I had sockets ... man, make such a huge difference

I have ... one

[cerulean depot]

Btw, since people were curious: ss vs dd dps difference: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jSHwc7N11kegEiboNiR47x https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fitAHBtJUnt21XK2qarquy

[wary ice]

are there trinket suggestions in the ravenholdt guide or am i just blind?

[cerulean depot]

Don't mind 2nd SIM trinket, it 375 but Sims 20 dps lower than fathoms

Just dungeon set

[ionic charm]

@wary ice just check herodamage charts for an idea, but your own personal sims will be more accurate

[desert vault]

Yeah DD is stupid good 😃

that is basically the moral of that story

[wary ice]

Im looking for what dungeons i should be running to target trinkets

Do i still sim that?

[wheat zealot]

Freehold

Shrine

[desert vault]

Shrine for GCB and Freehold, yep

[wary ice]

❤ ty

[cerulean depot]

Kings rest is ok too

[wary ice]

shrine for the haste circle one right?

[wheat zealot]

Yeaah plumage is pretty solid

[wary ice]

Galecaller boon*

[desert vault]

@cerulean depot Is there much difference on 2x DD with MA vs Subt?

[wheat zealot]

Yeah shrine for galecallers

[cerulean depot]

@desert vault 20 dps or so.

[desert vault]

Gotcha

[velvet kernel]

Lol

8 sockets

[cerulean depot]

9 with dungeon trinket 👌

[desert vault]

Huh, thought a 370 DD vs 385 Twist would have DD winning, but seems Twist still sims better by 200

[opaque grotto]

Twist isn’t a bad trait

[desert vault]

I've got a DiTB as well that sims better, just don't trust it yet 😃

Well, don't trust myself to use it

[cerulean depot]

385 has 40(?) agi over 370, also 2nd ring trait can make a lot of difference

[desert vault]

think i did overwhelming power on 385 and gutripper on 370. Was just doing a mock-up gear compare sim

[drifting elbow]

main trait matters way more than 2nd traits

[cerulean depot]

Overwhelming power Sims considerably stronger than gutripper, helps to tip the scales

[drifting elbow]

depends how u look at them

ghuun as example values gutripper more

since last phase dmg being important

🤷

[desert vault]

heh, I don't even have aotc yet ... should prolly do that at some point before I get CE (hopefully)

[cerulean depot]

Only through simming and nothing else. Not even talking about real fights

[verbal nimbus]

AOTC is useless, I see people paying 400k gold ($80) for that stuff... if you can get CE then work hard and get CE

[drifting elbow]

nothing is useless tbh

ppl will pay for anything

[desert vault]

I know aotc is about pointless. We just stopped doing heroic before I bothered to get it

does anyone know if the mutated mass has a back/front side in terms of like DiTB?

[verbal nimbus]

once next tier comes out, not a single person will care about an AOTC from uldir.. now CE will turn some heads

[drifting elbow]

🤔

[cerulean depot]

I have 4/8 mythic on my alt with 7/8 heroic

[drifting elbow]

ppl doesnt care if u have CE from old content when ach simply doesnt guarantee u know new raid tactics

[desert vault]

@cerulean depot I'm the same, 4/8 and 7/8

[drifting elbow]

🤔

[verbal nimbus]

you're crazy, i link my CE from legion and still get insta invites

it shows you can do real mechanics

[drifting elbow]

my god

ppl are idiots

CE from legion, gets invited to bfa raid

omg

[verbal nimbus]

theres a HUGE difference between AOTC and CE

in ability

[hollow cloud]

not in this tier there isnt

🚘

[verbal nimbus]

check the stats on who has AOTC vs CE

[drifting elbow]

nobody cares?

most ppl ask aotc as minimum

[ionic charm]

There’s not much difference between AOTC and 2/8m, but there is a difference between G’huun CE

[desert vault]

this teir, as melee, is spread out ... spread out ... oh wait, guess what else you need to do ... spread out!

[drifting elbow]

CE is not super needed without doing mythic pug raid

[hollow cloud]

^

[drifting elbow]

[verbal nimbus]

you do?

for heroic raids lol

[drifting elbow]

LOL

[hollow cloud]

like mythic just shows u can do the 1 core mechanic that has been present in every difficulty this tier

[verbal nimbus]

you're not going to get into a good raiding guild without it

[hollow cloud]

amazing, you can do an 8yard spread

[verbal nimbus]

which is why you dont have CE 🤔

[desert vault]

I've never sat and watched others attack the boss while I just toss a couple Poison knifes waiting for one of 136 debuffs to expire

[ionic charm]

I get into any heroic group I want with just linking mythic fetid lul it’s not hard

[drifting elbow]

oh i know way more ppl who gets into guild to trial without CE

[hollow cloud]

^

[verbal nimbus]

then the boot because they cant handle it

[hollow cloud]

Ur extremely cocky my dude

chill

[drifting elbow]

ppl can get kicked even with CE

[hollow cloud]

ur not #1 ranked player squadfam

[verbal nimbus]

Not saying I am, but to say AOTC is nearly as valuable from an achievement perspective as CE is clearly incorrect

[drifting elbow]

im not saying they are of same value at all

[verbal nimbus]

One takes work, the other is a night with a pug

[drifting elbow]

u r saying aotc is useless

which it isnt

[verbal nimbus]

it is

[drifting elbow]

sure mate

[hollow cloud]

aotc useless

[drifting elbow]

a lot of ppl accepts aotch ach

[hollow cloud]

[drifting elbow]

😄

[verbal nimbus]

sure, for normal pugs

or heroic pugs

[drifting elbow]

even hc pugs

[verbal nimbus]

again, still getting aotc

[drifting elbow]

mythic pugs wants single or 2 mythic kill achs

[verbal nimbus]

you're just being brought in to carry the guys in the pug who dont have it yet

then they're just like you

[hollow cloud]

Even top100 guilds dont necessarily demand

CE

7/8M 6/8M 5/8M Aotc

[ionic charm]

Who requires CE for mythic pugs? What mythic pugs are killing G’huun? Lmao

[verbal nimbus]

sure, on a low pop server maybe not

[drifting elbow]

🤔

[hollow cloud]

Whats ur guild Josheh since ur opinion is scewed af

[drifting elbow]

its even in full server pop

[hollow cloud]

You have to be a multi top10 player yeh

Elitist one would say

[verbal nimbus]

Try getting into a top 100 guild on Illidan linking your AOTC

[hollow cloud]

Its interesting

[verbal nimbus]

x fucking D

[drifting elbow]

u mean, shit ton of ppl?

who has little experience on mythics

yay

[wheat zealot]

You can get into a mythic pug that plans to kill taloc/mother and thats it with aotc and good ilvl, heroic ghuun is harder than the first 2 mythic bosses for sure lol

[ionic charm]

Josh are you the 2/8m one with shit logs? That’s why you can’t get into a good guild, not achievements lul

[hollow cloud]

think this guy just has very little experience with pugging or/and interaction with non-peeps & guildies

[drifting elbow]

u can even buy CE when u r rich guy

🤷

[verbal nimbus]

Yea I havent played much, pushed CE previously on Sargeras and know full well that AOTC is useless

[strange python]

AOTC is only useful for pugs

[hollow cloud]

"pushed CE previously"

[wheat zealot]

Its not though lol, helps a lot to get into pug groups on alts

[drifting elbow]

sure my guys in guild who didnt even have AOTC killed M sargeras with me