Yup, I know about that.
#assassination
proper zealot
analog iron
Rodijak, can I PM?
warm geode
got 390 ring from arena, cant simc topgear to know if is a little bit better .-.
zealous wolf
sure
warm geode
just to leave here, is BS the socket is worth 25ilvls on rings , ty blizz, 370 rings socket > 390 😃
ripe nimbus
Ur letting rupture and garrote fall off.. my suggestion read the sin guide on ravenholdt again and again because I think u either didn't read it or didn't read it good enough @analog iron
zealous wolf
nah he isnt
wheat vigil
Make your WA yell at you when your dots get into pandemic range
ripe nimbus
Well then ur doing it wrong
wheat vigil
Melee taloc parse is ‘stood in blood to stab elevator add’ or ‘didn’t’
slate jacinth
warm geode
what i have to me is, just know the basics of rotation , internalize what is on the guide, take some tips here and dat, u cant aim for top parses, everybody has diferent gear/ilvl cuz titanforge, do what is best for u guild and that is execelent enought
even comps change parses .-.
polar cape
Kill speed and lucks on proc helps s lot also
proper zealot
@slate jacinth Nice RA stacks in a dungeon. 😄
warm geode
lets cry to mythic raid drop cap ilvl and then we can compare logs
legion was my first expansion, dat i tryed to parse good , but now?? no hell, im dying to not wipe, i losing ST to stun add, im changing build to where is needed, fuck logs 😛
ripe nimbus
I mean the dude is parsing 12% with out dieing that's just not knowing how to play the spec properly. U can do things to help the fight but parsing grey isn't because u tried to do something useful
warm geode
like i say, internalize the guide, as ppl sayed to
just dont aim to be top 1, will be frustrade
zealous wolf
hm
im trying to help this dude
but he has no SS
and play TB
how do you open with that lmao
warm geode
wheat vigil
Probably the way the part that says tb no ss says to
zealous wolf
orly
silent onyx
Anyone know why there is such a descrepency between Bloodmallet and hero damage on Azerite traits. Mallet saying SS is still good. Hero damage has it waaaaay down the list and twist the knife up much higher
Nvm. I had stacking selected on Mallet by mistake
lone junco
One uses ma only. The other uses ma or subterfuge based on the spec button
Stick with herodamage.
But make sure to click exang. Or default. And then the aoe fight bs st.
vital haven
herodamge is bloodmallet but better
or at least more detailed
herodamage actually takes into account different talent choices
fresh heron
YO, so currently, i can get my haste to 16% but when i sim in my stats its saying to focus on mastery, so i switch out a ring and it drops my haste to 13%. am i crazy, why is my sim so wonked? I feel like I barely have any haste why is it asking to focus on different stats
barren hound
quick question, using Sharpened blades trait, should I use on CD with EP or should I combo with anything else?
safe matrix
Use at 29 stacks
hollow stone
You answered your own question @barren hound. Do exactly that, aim to use at 29 since itll prob tick over to 30 in that last gcd. And try to use it w ep up
barren hound
cool I felt that was best, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something
hollow stone
Trust your instincts youngling
barren hound
xD
hollow stone
😄
warm geode
@fresh heron prob the top secondary changes with this gear swap, so the reorigination array buff come to the other stat and change the build
fresh heron
interesting.
inner pulsar
@hollow stone Did you do my +10 for the week yet?
desert vault
I'm about the same sadly, not enough socket gear 😦
I think SS is still a little off for sim though
subtle tundra
well what can you do World of RNG after all
i mean i got a 385 chest but im NOT gonna play without SS
feels SO bad
desert vault
There was a guy earlier that was 376 simming at 18.6k with two DD traits of 370 and 385 I think, something crazy, 5 sockets
wheat zealot
Yeah that guy gave me depression @desert vault
desert vault
Yeah it was gross @wheat zealot I mean two DD is nasty, then go ahead and drop 5 sockets with it ...
warm rapids
goes whats the best last talent for m+
desert vault
oops forgot to put my Fathoms back on for that sim
zinc zephyr
last week i looted ring from mythic mother, today i bonused the same ring from mythic. and looted the ring again
#neverlucky
my guildie got the mother dagger in 395 socket
proper zealot
I have 7 sockets and only sim for 17.5k DPS.
quick fog
inner pulsar
That guy's sim was out of control. Even with perfect traits mine would barely crack 18k at 380 ilvl
north tinsel
So I assume we are still not clipping envenoms?
hollow stone
@inner pulsar 10 completed ✅
Clipping env is okay, you dont want to clip ep (elaborate planning)
@zinc zephyr i still need the dagger AND the ring. Count your blessings, son
hollow stone
@warm rapids most of the time, ct is best. Kr is the frequently noted exception where you run pb
thin ingot
scrap it
hollow stone
@glacial grotto nah, you should prob just de/scrap that
glacial grotto
kk
warm geode
damm, so much things to simc -.-`` tired
inner pulsar
@hollow stone No not yours, did you do mine yet?
hollow stone
Hoarder
Yeah, totally done. Must be a bug on your mythic window if it says not completed @inner pulsar
inner pulsar
Oh ok, thanks bud
desert vault
what are decent overall numbers for a rogue in m+? Like freehold for example, I'm 377. Should be 15k overall or like 13-14k?
hollow stone
15k is always your goal
warm geode
depends on affix/tank/group overall@desert vault
hollow stone
But i mean, beating your friends is the real win
And overall dmg this week is wonky
Cause bolstering can fux you and if youre killing bombs for your group that fux you too
desert vault
ok, so 15k is a good target
hollow stone
15k is a good target, yea
desert vault
I just did a little Freehold 8 and did 13.6k overall so, not terribly but kinda meh
warm geode
just beat the other 2 dps and u will be fine
hollow stone
Not great but not bad. Your tank needs to pull bigger probably 😃
hollow stone
Beautiful. Thats what we want to hear
desert vault
I don't really do much with m+ though
like its painful for me to do a single 10 usually
warm geode
just dont beat to much, they gonna cry and blizz will nerf rogues again .-.
desert vault
true, i'm only running one SS, archive and twist as well so not really perfect gear but don't feel like reforging, again
warm geode
lul
hollow stone
I mean.. they cant n-word all 3 specs.. can they..?
warm geode
they already did, but still good atm
warm rapids
should i keep crimsontempest up on ST @hollow stone
warm geode
deadshot,ss n-word, and sub is dead, just good at cheese
hollow stone
No, just for 3+ @warm rapids
remote birch
Anyone here would mind sharing their Assassination Rogue keybindings? I need a bit of inspiration still.
hollow stone
Yeah. Ikr, its a sad world @warm geode
warm rapids
@hollow stone why run pb on kr because so little mobs ?
dreamy mountain
Guys i need your Help please. I got a 355 chest with ss and a 385 Chest with DiB. Which is better for M+ ?
hollow stone
Thats a tough one @remote birch. People use all sorts of diff binds; some use mut on q or e while others use it on 1 or 5 and so on
desert vault
SS, DiTB is tough in m+
remote birch
I'm just looking for different setups to try out. Unless they're using a Naga, since I don't. Everything is appreciated.
inner pulsar
I think there is a keybinding guide pinned in rogue general
hollow stone
@dreamy mountain is that your only ss piece?
remote birch
Rogue general? Where?
dreamy mountain
Nah i got SS on 370 shoulders as well
desert vault
I'd still go SS cause I'm old and bad at the game, but DiTB will certainly do more damage if you can use it right I'm sure
hollow stone
Hmm. That makes the choice harder for sure. Id still probably recommend 355 ss over 385 ditb. We should bug seli on this one 🤷♂️
inner pulsar
In the pins, like I said
dreamy mountain
Thank you guys
hollow stone
@remote birch rogue general channel, in pins
remote birch
Lookng at it now. I still kinda wanna try someone else's, though. It's worked before, and I think it would be more enjoyable for me.
hollow stone
Well, i use a naga so youre SOL from me
remote birch
Yeah, that probably won't work x)
lucid bolt
anyone here stil working on heroic ghuun?
hollow stone
Youre looking for specifics, right? Like mut on 1 garr on 2 rupt on 3. Etc?
lucid bolt
or planning to do it this weekend? i really want to get it done
remote birch
If possible, @hollow stone! 😃
hollow stone
Dm me, most of my naga buttons are cds so you can adjust. Ill msg you my ui/binds later tonight when i log
remote birch
That would be great. Looking forward to hearing from you. ^^
hollow stone
Its my canadian blood, bruva
remote kraken
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
static sky
If using Crimson Tempest in a m+ or something, do you still use it over Envenom on ST?
static sky
Yeah, but I mean should i still cast tempest on a single target?
or use envenom on it
scenic nacelle
afaik I dont think you use CT on ST
static sky
Yeah it wasn't in the icy-veins rotation thing, just wasn't sure if maybe they left it out since envenom was usually what ppl have on st fights
or rather they dont have ct
quasi ledge
Never CT on ST
static sky
ok
One more question, on large packs (like 6 mobs), is it more efficient to just garrote and rupture 3 then keep it applie while using CT, or is it better to keep tabbing through and apply garrote and rupture on as many mobs as possible
safe matrix
Besides initially garrotting the 3/vanishing you don't really cast garrote in AoE
safe matrix
That's what I heard from seli
And I'm gonna post his follow up for the guy who was asking about m+
lone junco
The extra garrotes damage is pretty low and once you cap E they are not worth much.
Yeah. That rotation leads to pretty consistent 25-30k dps without vendetta or vanish.
Anyone done a full duration Ct. with ep uptime to see what a st hit and tick value is?
Compared to an env.
hardy veldt
im sure i have the numbers somewhere, but i can check on a target dummy here shortly
drifting elbow
assuming u got all at fresh ticks, envenom is still used i think
lone junco
If you would just do a Ct and keep ep up. That would be best. I assume it totals to about 8k dmg. But not sure.
drifting elbow
im fairly sure envenom does more
hardy veldt
envenom also boosts poison applications though
lone junco
probably a safe bet. should use raidbots Top Gear to pick traits.
hardy veldt
you can sim it though
hardy veldt
maybe refer to bloodmallet or hero damage
smoky prism
i only have 1 SS and i just got a 370 DD
for m+ 3xSS is still the way to go tho right? even after nerf, sorry i took a break for a bit from the game
lone junco
you can sim traits you dont have, using Gear compare.
just need the name of the base item
desert vault
Double dd is pretty crazy strong in raid
So back to this garrote in m+ is it really ggg and then forget about reapplying on trash packs? Only when running CT?
safe matrix
scroll up to the image i posted like 10 comments back
thats a direct quote from a top 5 m+ rogue player
hardy veldt
yep
desert vault
Yeah I am just ... well dang. I know who he is too. Just wasnt expecting that
But if you aren't running CT does it change much?
safe matrix
and typically you really only run PB on things like tyrannical KR or temple if you need boss damage CT is just too good everywhere else
safe matrix
I had to edit my comment there, I accidently said the exact opposite of what i meant 
desert vault
So ct or not doesn't matter do refresh garrote
ruby idol
To elaborate, after the opener 3x garrote, if the pack is big enough (5 or more) to spread enough ruptures to sustain energy levels, you stop garroting. If it's like a 3 pack you'll reapply garrotes to help with energy if the pack lives long enough for the garrotes to do their damage again
inner pecan
Also if you have Scent of Blood traits you stop CT spamming and apply as many Ruptures as possible while maintaining the CT dot
Without SoB you can get 3-4 Ruptures up (enough to keep you gcd-capped) and then you spam CT
This is on like 5+ targets
smoky tulip
Yo, whats the rotation for Exsang with 2x SS on trash?
I Garrote 3x then Rupture then Exsang?
Do I need to put up more Ruptures?
before Exsang I mean
weary granite
^ if you have CT talented Exsanguinate would affect it so you should CT before as well, right?
rocky notch
for priority damage that is the best time to exsang
smoky tulip
I don't run CT
rocky notch
pre ct
smoky tulip
Should I be? Not sure how to sim for trash
rocky notch
ct doesn't do enough damage to outset delaying exsang for that many more globals, you lose a lot of garrote ticks
smoky tulip
I kinda like the ease of PB
I thought Garrote would be the priority here as it hits for a lot out of stealth
So Garrote 3x, Rupture on the prioty target then Exsang
Thanks fams
weary granite
Thanks too, bored.
rocky notch
liavree posted a good screenshot on what to do later in 5+ pulls
worldly maple
For M+, should I run 2nd SS in 340 piece or scent of blood in a 370 piece?
daring iron
probably scent
oblique raven
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x5t1NVQaeeujYrnTv7125p is this about right when simming for mythic plus??
calm grail
If you are doing a pack of like 4 mobs and you have a priority Target baked in, when do you Exsang? ggg CT fok rupture Exsang prio? Or ggg rupture Exsang then weave in CTs needed and ruptures?
Obviously applying vendetta and GCs before Exsang when appropriate.
inner pecan
If there's a prio target just G G G Rupt Exsg
@oblique raven Turn off bloodlust if you want to sim more accurately. Also you might want to try simming Exsg instead of TB
And obviously Archive of the Titans will not perform well in a Patchwerk 40s sim since it needs to stack up, it's real value in m+ is higher
steep obsidian
PB or CT for mythic zek'voz?
inner pecan
@steep obsidian Are you progressing or looking to parse?
steep obsidian
progress
inner pecan
play PB
solar rose
@worldly maple 340 SS piece, even more so on tyranical weeks. However on fortified/right dungeon that scent of blood piece is pretty good.
steep obsidian
k thanks
oblique raven
@inner pecan i did.. cept the bloodlust thing
worldly maple
ok thanks
inner pecan
Simming Archive vs. other traits in a 40s sim is pretty pointless though
inner pecan
well Archive is decent in m+ on a high ilvl piece but you won't see that in a 40s sim
since it needs to stack up
solar rose
There's something tricky with this sim; it depends on the dungeon more so than just picking one and sticking with it.
If you aren't getting scent of blood value in M+ you can use archive and it be fine.
Dungeons where scent of blood is pretty sub par varying on what route you guys go.
Atal
Kings Rest
Temple
trail hound
@inner pecan Are you playing exsang on all your mythic farm fights?
inner pecan
yes but that's mostly because I vastly prefer the SS/Exsg playstyle compared to MA/TB
and it's like a 50 DPS difference for me on ST
trail hound
word, I still need fetid chest, otherwise I would do the same
distant hinge
strange python
btw what is scent of blood rotation in m+? i have 2xScent+1xSS i use exsang+CT , so i go Stealth >3garottes>CT>Fok(notmore than 2times)>2rup>Exsang , and after that what do i do 😄 fok? ruptures on 1-2-3+cp?
fok>rup , i miswrote "2"
inner pecan
don't think too much in terms of rotation
your goals are to apply 3 SS garrotes out of stealth, keep up CT if it's a 4+ mob count, and spread as many Ruptures as you can
Don't re-apply non-empowered garrotes on 4-5+ mobs, your Ruptures will be enough to carry your energy regen
you can vanish/shadowmeld to reapply garrotes though, as long as they are empowered
frosty gyro
There should be a way to sim with pre stacked archive
That's what people do when they are tryharding anyways
Also Shadowmeld doesn't interract with Garrote and usually casting non-empowered garrotes is worth it if it will get 3 ticks off
strange python
@inner pecan yea i understand "dont overthink" but sometimes i do 30k+ and usually i do 24+k so im trying to figure out what im doin wrong
he basically explained what u do
Hey guys, what about 2x doble dose +archive
inner pecan
shadowmeld works for garrote
on trash
shadowmeld, restealth, re-apply garrotes
Doesn't work on bosses because shadowmeld doesn't put you out of combat on bosses
inner pecan
yep
frosty gyro
That's pretty OP
frosty gyro
Mythic Mythic+
strange python
double dose is trash for m+
frosty gyro
Yep
strange python
Archive is pretty good
frosty gyro
For raid just use TB and look at some logs and maybe the APL SST in your sim but the APL seems to be kinda sketchy these days so probably just logs
supple pagoda
do we still do garrote 3 times in the opener even if you have shrouded suffocation? (on multiple mobs)
frosty gyro
You only garrote 3 times in opener IF you have SS
strange python
And thats also only when theres more than 1 mob
frosty gyro
I guess if you're running subterfuge with no SS you would too if there were 3 mobs
strange python
Actually more than 2
frosty gyro
I still do 3 garrotes on 2 mobs with SS 🤔
7.4 seconds of SS garrote is better than anything else I can use a GCD on
strange python
idk why but I automatically assumed you have 2cp
So yeah, more than 1 mob
3 garrotes
supple pagoda
thank you guys
thorny rampart
did any undocumented change go through since last maintenance? i'm getting weird results on sims lately
this was made 7 days ago, with the only change being -2 ilvl on neck
this was today
i'll appreciate if anyone can shed a light on this
spice surge
Yes there was a faulty apl update, should be fixed soon
humble carbon
prolly rng on your crits or poison bomb
spice surge
Nothing changed ingame
inner pecan
It's just a SimC error should be fixed in the next nightly
it's casting 3 garrotes after vanish which is wrong
inner pecan
will be fixed soon
thorny rampart
that makes a lot of sense
crisp hollow
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Z7NqW4ACRKdQvXBg#fight=7&type=damage-done&source=60&view=timeline my opener on this mythax (H) pull was such a trainwreck lmao
pretty much everything went wrong
alt nights are such a fiesta
mossy willow
How is every1 dealing with the explosive affix optimally? I’m opening with 3 garrottes (3 SS, 2/370 1/385) then im basically forced to use all my spenders on envenoming orbs all day. Struggling to find time to apply a rupture on my targets
scenic vessel
Hi, I've been mostly playing TB and am trying to get better at playing/understanding exsanguinate. I know it basically makes my bleed effects tick twice as fast. If I re-apply a bleed to that target, does that bleed not inherit the exsanguinate effect? Does that mean I should wait to refresh the bleed until it's dropping off, rather than refreshing it once it hits pandemic range?
strange python
SS got buffed on PTR ? https://gyazo.com/1dd72079d6783a090baff3528e5de65c
exotic fractal
so did double dose it seems?
strange python
Twist as well
exotic fractal
i dont get why they're buffing assassin and not sub
but if that ss change goes live rogue in M+... hnnnghh
strange python
Probably just testing
exotic fractal
is that a full reversal of the previous 40% nerf or less/more?
strange python
They're not going to reverse that nerf, hell no
exotic fractal
I know, but im wondering if they think they might've overnerfed it
wheat zealot
No, that just makes the trait scale with vers
strange python
imo
wheat zealot
Its not a huge buff
royal lantern
well, ss turned from´´best trait in all situations´´ into´´use it for m+´´
strange python
Still a buff
exotic fractal
it was over 200 damage extra for my rogue between ptr and live, thats pretty big if running 3x ss in M+
strange python
Also double dose getting a slight buff
wheat zealot
But its no where close to reverting the 40% nerf is what im saying
strange python
why am I blue
exotic fractal
yea I figured
strange python
Perforate and First Dance getting some interesting changes
simple flax
How decent is 14% haste at 360 ilvl
lone junco
A bit low.
frank furnace
Guys, i've simmed and am still unsure. For mythic plus 15+, 385 archive vs 345 SS trait? I already have a 385 and 370 SS equipped. As a night elf - just feel like I get so much use out of the trait that it may be better. Gut feel?
lone junco
But I have like 5 sockets.
strange python
Go with archive
frank furnace
hmm alright thanks
lone junco
@frank furnace I look at the 1t 2min and the 6t40 sec. 2ss + tends to be fine for me.
frank furnace
Issue with the sim is that it starts the archive stacks from zero and idk how to sim it assuming it starts at 20
lucid bolt
ill buy a steam game for anybody who can help me get into a hereoic ghuun kill
i know the mechanics 😄
onyx rock
Any Game i want ?
safe matrix
that sounds kinda like it should be an #off-topic discussion or something brought to dms
hybrid galleon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
errant mauve
370 Scent or 345 SS? also 360 SS or 385 sharpened blades, for M+ with a 370 SS chest
rancid pagoda
with SS what stat priority are you guy using for mythic plus?
errant mauve
crit mastery
rancid pagoda
8% haste too low?
limpid solstice
is 19% too low ?
stone hedge
Well if you have like 5 mobs dotted up haste doesnt matter because youll be rolling in energy. Youll just suck on bosses
limpid solstice
I assume not in raid when buffs begin applying
karmic ingot
https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=secondary_distributions
However much haste you have on your highest simming gear is “enough”. Even a worst case stat distribution is within ~6% of the best case stat distribution.
grizzled ruin
Hi, I have a question about lining up vendetta with vanish. Since I have SS, my opener makes it so that vendetta and vanish are ~20 seconds offset from each other. Should I wait on vanish before I vendetta to get them to line up, or just keep them offset?
karmic ingot
Yes. You will end up holding vendetta and vanish for Exsanguinate too if you’re using it.
grizzled ruin
TB is better for me, but you're saying to hold right?
karmic ingot
Yeah, 100% you want to hold vendetta for vanish.
proper zealot
~20 seconds offset from each other? That seems a little long.
Actually, I guess that makes sense, because you're using Toxic Blade with at least one Shrouded Suffocation power.
That must suck.
opaque grotto
You just delay it one time and then they line up for the rest of the fight
It’s not like delaying it will make you miss a cast
tall dagger
Does SS stack?
civic palm
DMG does, CP does not
rose oyster
@proper zealot @karmic ingot I read that vanish waits for vandetta however vandetta doesn't wait for vanish. Thats not true?
strange python
Best stat for reorigination array? Have haste atm but feel like its a waste
proper zealot
@rose oyster It's only really going to matter if delaying one is going to cause you to miss out on a usage.
Like if delaying your second Vendetta for your second Vanish for cause you to miss your third Vendetta, for instance.
coarse knot
Most fights only last about 5-6 mins do a 3rd vendetta is a lil bit of a coin toss no?
proper zealot
Well, third Vendetta happens at ~4 minutes. ; )
proper zealot
Haha. : )
mossy willow
How is every1 dealing with the explosive affix optimally? I’m opening with 3 garrottes (3 SS, 2/370 1/385) then im basically forced to use all my spenders on envenoming orbs all day. Struggling to find time to apply a rupture on my targets
rose oyster
@mossy willow Get a range to do it 😄
strange python
ranged dont do shit
mossy willow
Let the last dungeon I did was a motherload +11 with me and 2 hunters. I did 880k overall damage on orbs, the hunters didn’t even breach 100k. I can get ppl to commit target swapping
Legit*
strange python
^^^
proper zealot
Y I K E S
vernal sequoia
do you benefit more from pooling energy when no need to refresh bleeds with max combo points and envenom debuff still on target
or is it better to just push out that extra envenom
coarse knot
On boss or trash?
coarse knot
Well for bosses I’ve gotten use to knowing when I can refresh bleeds
Or when I need to
vernal sequoia
bleeds arnt my problem
its have everything up and 5 combo points
having*
whether its better to pool or dump
coarse knot
If everything is up and you have max combo point by all means throw out as many envenoms as possible
vernal sequoia
i guess its better to dump when you have trinket procs and what not
but if nothing is going on, pool
ive heard you lose dps when overlapping envenom debuffs because youre starving and having more downtime with that debuff meaning significant drops in poison dmg
coarse knot
I’m not to knowledgeable in that
vernal sequoia
i guess all i can do is dummy compare the two rotations and compare
coarse knot
If you run Tb when that’s up you should be spamming as many envenoms in that window
vernal sequoia
i know to spam evenoms during tb uptime
its just very specific case i was talking about
coarse knot
As far as knowing if you should hold your CPs
summer tapir
Was SS nerfed? im looking at Herodamage and Bloodmallet and both have it waaaaay down in the list now
vernal sequoia
i think its better, because then youd get more envenoms in for the tb gap
coarse knot
That’s something I’m unaware of and now I’m thinking about if that’s a good idea
summer tapir
not the nerf a few weeks back
summer tapir
it was still really strong after that nerf
vernal sequoia
only for mythic+s
coarse knot
As far as single target damage
It’s not as good
DD is way better
But it’s not terrible to run atleast 1 SS IN RAIDS
The combo points are still amazing
vernal sequoia
meh
coarse knot
Guess it kinda depends on what you want
I personally don’t run it in raids
Mostly because my other items are higher ilvl
coarse knot
I’m still not use to running it
proper zealot
Yeah, I don't actually miss running Shrouded Suffocation in raids. Master Assassin/Toxic Blade works nicely.
coarse knot
I needa start trying MA
inner pecan
@vernal sequoia the main rule for pooling is never cap energy
vernal sequoia
its easy
inner pecan
it's fine to pool if you won't cap energy
vernal sequoia
i know that hah
vernal sequoia
idk why i asked the question i answered it myself
proper zealot
I would love for Master Assassin to be 100% Crit.
coarse knot
That’s would be insane
vernal sequoia
its better to pool but not cap to get an extra envenom in on tb
proper zealot
Just give me back Mantle, baby.
vernal sequoia
garrote mut 5p rupture
vernal sequoia
kind of
proper zealot
You don't go for a 5 CP Rupture in the opener. You just go Garrote > Mutilate > Rupture.
(With Master Assassin.)
vernal sequoia
they still require adaptation
vernal sequoia
^ see thats diff than the guide
but how ive been doing it too
there is no choo choo
proper zealot
Those are the two "popular" openers I've heard people using with Master Assassin.
The one written in the guide and then the one the APL uses, which is what Tyrarolls just wrote.
inner pecan
The one in the guide is slightly better
vernal sequoia
yeah
velvet kernel
choo choo
inner pecan
it's been simmed
vernal sequoia
both have been simmed
proper zealot
I prefer the one in the guide, yeah. Vanishing before an Envenom "feels" nice.
inner pecan
yes, both have been simmed and the one in the guide came out slightly ahead
proper zealot
Especially if that next Mutilate crits, too, and you can go into another Envenom.
fast nacelle
in the end nothing makes any difference
proper zealot
In the end, nothing even matters.
vernal sequoia
in the end actually being on the target doing damage is > not being on them
proper zealot
I tried so hard.
fast nacelle
you can do w/e you want
proper zealot
And got so far.
strange python
but in the end
proper zealot
🎵
fast nacelle
or not
coarse knot
Is killing he boss
fast nacelle
i want a legion pserver with the iteration where you spam fok
and maintain NS deadly poison
then my life is complete
safe matrix
I still have all of the memes from then
velvet kernel
mystic?
safe matrix
antorus sin was lit af
vernal sequoia
naw
strange python
mystic difficulty lol
fast nacelle
antorus sin was bae
vernal sequoia
my guild is on mythic zek but people are idiots
vernal sequoia
i have been getting 90+ parses on him but obv not downed yet
fast nacelle
i ve never seen someone say "we stuck on mother.. i hold back my guild"
only "we stuck on mother my guild sucks"
vernal sequoia
yeah thats not really how it works
fast nacelle
🤔
strange python
if i could just clone myself 20 times this boss would be dead
velvet kernel
well for me i joined a better guild the other ppl in my guild couldn't
so i guess it was my guild
vernal sequoia
inc pseudoscience
strange python
i expected religion
velvet kernel
i was recruting a bunch
fast nacelle
recruiting is a bitch
strange python
ill join your guild
coarse knot
Ya you think your all struggling I’m 375 ilvl still IN HEROIC BARLEY DOING MYTHIC
fast nacelle
with rec
fast nacelle
when we were alliance
vernal sequoia
being a good leader and cultivating peoples ability to improve is more of a bitch but is a way better approach to management than replacement in most cases
fast nacelle
as top 50 guild 3 days raiding we got applications from half hc clear
velvet kernel
we had a trash ass leader
fast nacelle
then they were like: dude mythic is just like hc i can read dbm timings
then i tried to be polite for 30 min
fast nacelle
but gets deleted quite often
people have either no time or are lazy
or both + stupid or ebola
vernal sequoia
um
fast nacelle
thats fine
velvet kernel
this game is easy bro check my 90 ilvl log
vernal sequoia
im a fulltime physics student in uni, i have near to no time and i still do my part
coarse knot
It sucks knowing you can do better but
velvet kernel
i do mechanical engenieering
safe matrix
alright this has been offtopic for like 5 minutes, so try to wrap it up in like another two
velvet kernel
and i have time
coarse knot
People are lazy
velvet kernel
....
fast nacelle
i think if ppl stuck in raiding
m+ is a good option
to proof yourself to other guilds
actually m+ can rly help.. our #1 DE guild recruited 2-3 ppl from m+ score
vernal sequoia
M+ is imbalanced
fast nacelle
towards us yes
vernal sequoia
certain classes heavily outperform others
fast nacelle
cant complain as rogue
fast nacelle
assa is so much fun in m+
velvet kernel
yeah but if you have a good score as not an op class shows how amazing you are
vernal sequoia
gotta take this to offtopic discussion
velvet kernel
ya know
fast nacelle
m+ doesnt say how good of a raider you would be
but its a start
like if you cant find a guild..you can do m+ to increase your chances
velvet kernel
just get good logs 4Head
fast nacelle
yeah most people look for logs only anyway
velvet kernel
just pad
fast nacelle
thats why they stuck with braindamaged dds
or healer
who tranq on pull to have it rdy again
good catches are super rare
you need to go quite deep into logs to find people who do raid decently and not just pad
depending on which level you raid obviously
if you just wanna clear hc pure dmg seals the deal
safe matrix
anyways on that banger of a point, I'd really appreciate if this was taken to offtopic or rogue general
its a good convo and I'd hate for it to end, but this channel isnt the place for it 🤷
velvet kernel
Yeah 😄
vernal sequoia
wish there was a way to pin a conversation log and transfer it to different channels
so it picks up with the same lines for reference
velvet kernel
that would be a sick idea
safe matrix
Unfortunately not, but offtopic in the channels is something we have to crack down on we get a lot of complaints from users about it
vernal sequoia
not really a pin but a copy pasta
safe matrix
thanks for being so civil about it
vernal sequoia
understandable
velvet kernel
its fine sorry for it dragging on so long 😄
fast nacelle
hi im new to assa whats best build
vernal sequoia
i need to figure out how to improve my parse on zul, anyone got input?
vernal sequoia
make my healers hate me
velvet kernel
and i can try and help
coral wasp
Am I missing something? Shrouded suffocation on a 385 piece is simming less than filthy transfusion?
velvet kernel
what talents?
coral wasp
Oh, I must be looking at some old thing pre-nerf
vernal sequoia
maybe
coral wasp
I'm still not pulling anywhere near the dps raidbots is saying I should either but I'm also not wasting pots/flasks on a dummy
vernal sequoia
are in in a raid with full buffs and flask prepoting food rune vantis
heavy trail
@coral wasp sim with no buffs selected on raifbots
velvet kernel
you have ss traits nevx?
stark stag
Running 2xDD with MA works for me
vernal sequoia
i dont have a 2nd dd
velvet kernel
wait
vernal sequoia
and id lose dd for ss
velvet kernel
i did agi
vernal sequoia
what was your parse?
velvet kernel
99
vernal sequoia
👍
do you ever wait for bleeds to get closer to falling off
to pool a bit of energy
or is it arbitrary
velvet kernel
well how are your guild playing the fight
vernal sequoia
burn and cleave
velvet kernel
so how long are crawgs up for you at the starT?
vernal sequoia
then it turns into a mess when people need to soak pools and purge adds
not long at all
velvet kernel
yeah because i see you spamming fok a lot on pull
vernal sequoia
i did that because the targets were there and it allowed for more envenoms
velvet kernel
how many?
vernal sequoia
using 3-4+ target logic fok vs mut
vernal sequoia
was prob just zoning out
velvet kernel
ye ye
vernal sequoia
we did it 4 times because we had trials fucking it up
velvet kernel
but open on zul like its st
vernal sequoia
i got tired and stopped caring about the parse
velvet kernel
makes sense
vernal sequoia
also i think i lost target and was jsut trying to fill the time gap until i could get back on zul
was debating rupturing everything vs single target focus
velvet kernel
well on pull because you are ma go st
use cd's etc
then when you have done that dot up the crusher
vernal sequoia
trying to find my best wipe parse
velvet kernel
k
velvet kernel
its because you dont have subterfuge you cant go super dotty at teh start
warped beacon
is there any more in depth guides to sin than ravenholdt, I want to know about when to pool and when not, etc
vernal sequoia
i can try to help
vernal sequoia
theres one situation ive found worth pulling
vernal sequoia
yeah, if you can pool a bit before cds while full bleeds are up envenom debuff on traget and tb on cd with debuff off
velvet kernel
wtf u killed ghuun
warped beacon
I was an enhance main but swapped to rogue this tier, I was late to the party though. still missing 3 RA stacks from everyone else, etc
yes lol
warped beacon
well those parses suck
because most of those mythic kills I was getiing carried to get gear
velvet kernel
mythic parses mean shit if you kill the boss
warped beacon
but doesn't that not matter unless you have SS traits
velvet kernel
So you know in the opepner when you vanish
warped beacon
so you can get 2 garrotes off
velvet kernel
but you might as well get 2 off lol
its not going to lose you damage
just means you have a buffed one for longer
warped beacon
I suppose
velvet kernel
cause subterfuge buffs it
warped beacon
but is there really no guide with like in depth rotational nuances for sin?
vernal sequoia
i mean
warped beacon
for shaman there are hella guides
velvet kernel
you legit dont pool really anymore
vernal sequoia
for most classes when you get to this stage is using logic
because its arbitrary to say THIS IS THE TRUTH
velvet kernel
you get a feel for when you need to
vernal sequoia
it depends on bigger variables
vernal sequoia
like what trinkets proc when and what stage of the fight your on
warped beacon
yeah like I don't think i'm awful at sin, I was just behind for most of those mythic parses
and I haven't killed mythic farm in like 2 weeks cause of g'huun prog
velvet kernel
that gear tho is nice
vernal sequoia
i like how your guild advertises itself as casual
warped beacon
I mean we only raid 9 hours a week
velvet kernel
so 3 days
vernal sequoia
i thought that was a normal progression guild
velvet kernel
it is normal
vernal sequoia
casual is like weekend nights
velvet kernel
^^
vernal sequoia
sat sunday
velvet kernel
or like 2 days
warped beacon
I think the point is more so that we don't add hours or days like many other guilds on our skill level
we got US 56, but a lot of others around us extended their raid hours
velvet kernel
but yeah pooling is not really an issue anymore
vernal sequoia
^
warped beacon
so you literally just keep dots up and gg
velvet kernel
yeah but be smart about it
warped beacon
dont waste cps, dont mut at 4, try to garrote/tb at 3 so mute doesn't waste shit
velvet kernel
its about not wasting energy and cp now
warped beacon
yeah
velvet kernel
feels braindead
vernal sequoia
should go outlaw then
coarse knot
So pulling is basically sitting on 5 combo points not overlapping envenoms?
vernal sequoia
enjoy the self inflicted pain of roll the bones
velvet kernel
?
coarse knot
Pooling*
velvet kernel
well we are playing ep
vernal sequoia
were you saying pooling is boring or the current state of assas is boring
velvet kernel
so its more just as much uptime as possible
coarse knot
Mmm I’m still a bit confused on all of that
strange python
i find it more boring than sub
velvet kernel
dont worry about overlapping envenom
warped beacon
do you want to envenom back to back or stagger them to have more uptime on the poison app buff
vernal sequoia
that was were i was trying to find a sweet spot
i think its good to pool a bit more if it means you can get an extra envenom in a tb
warped beacon
elaborate planning also makes it weird
vernal sequoia
vs throwing one out for the sake of it
velvet kernel
you just want max ep uptime
so fuck envenom
it should not be a thought if you are overlapping
it
ep on the other hand you can min max that
warped beacon
true
velvet kernel
the worst shit tho is when i keep on fucking play ct on taloc and mother
Because im an idiot
inner pecan
it's not possible to keep 100% EP uptime
the answer is you try to keep 100% uptime during Vendetta/TB/Exsg
velvet kernel
really?
inner pecan
outside of that you maintain Envenom uptime
vernal sequoia
thats the 2nd half of what i was talking about
velvet kernel
yeah
vernal sequoia
o shi here we go
velvet kernel
i need italics i guess
inner pecan
show me a log where someone has 100% uptime on a regular length fight
velvet kernel
for sarcasm
vernal sequoia
sarcasm on the internet is hard
velvet kernel
legit the class plays itself tho
vernal sequoia
also infuriates people
velvet kernel
outside of cd's you have less energy so less ep uptime
and more envenom uptime
when you have cd's you have more energy so more uptime on ep etc
thats how it feels to me
vernal sequoia
weve gone too deep
shit its 3m already wtf
3am
added you hyuro, would be cool to exchange ideas in the futute
future
velvet kernel
Yeah 😄
vernal sequoia
gnight all
velvet kernel
nn
spark spear
Hey guys, is it better to stack 2 archive of titans with 1 garrot trait or 2 garrots with 1 archive ?
inner pecan
For what content? M+? Raid? AoE? ST?
spark spear
mostly M+ and sometimes raid
floral frost
anyone can give me and advice on how to setup raidbots for aeo/m+ sim?
spark spear
yeah they are all 370
inner pecan
Archive will be better for ST raid bosses, SS is better for m+
proper zealot
Run one Archive and two SS for M+, assuming equal item level.
You can stack Archive to 20 before the dungeon begins and keep it up the entire time.
If you sim yourself with an Archive trait keep in mind the sim starts with zero stacks, so there's a bit of time taken to ramp.
spark spear
oh ok
proper zealot
Also, when simming yourself for M+ situations and you're using a piece with Archive or Laser Matrix, make sure you set your RA stacks to zero.
Because you won't have RA in a M+ dungeon, of course.
velvet kernel
Or just turn off buffs
proper zealot
Yeah, that's fine, too.
Some are fine to leave on.
Especially if you know who you're playing with and what buffs your group has.
haughty flame
when using Double dose - do you need to be speced as master assin
velvet kernel
No
spark spear
thank you 😃
haughty flame
so nothing changes except ur rotation when using double dose?
velvet kernel
It’s passive
proper zealot
Free damage! POGGERS
haughty flame
i kno, i mean in the sense that cause i will be swapping out my SS for the DD
both 370 ilvl
proper zealot
Your opener will chance without Shrouded Suffocation.
haughty flame
not having a SS is so weird
proper zealot
Not having SS is fine if you're running Master Assassin.
Assuming it sims higher than Subterfuge.
haughty flame
umm alot
velvet kernel
How much ?
velvet kernel
It depends if that was me I would just stay SS
haughty flame
i think cause im using 1x
my outlaw is simmin like 300dps more
dno wut to play tho
i know sin like the back of my hand
proper zealot
Play either what does the most damage or what you enjoy the most.
I won't play Outlaw because I really dislike Roll the Bones, and I don't enjoy Subtlety much because I find it boring, so I play Assassination.
haughty flame
i used to enjoy outlaw alot
but ever since i mained rogue i felt most natural with sin
pastel vault
I cant decide on a spec, keep swapping :L
proper zealot
I liked Outlaw back when it was Combat, and I like Subtlety during Legion.
quiet ginkgo
which is better for m+, 3 ss or 1 archive 2 ss?
proper zealot
What item levels are the pieces you have?
quiet ginkgo
375 all
proper zealot
I run one Archive and two Shrouded Suffocation for my Mythic+ set, all of which are 375. You can stack Archive to 20 before the dungeon starts (on a toy dummy or something) and then typically maintain the stacks for the remainder of the dungeon.
quiet ginkgo
it stays there even if you take off the piece with archive?
proper zealot
You can't swap gear in a Mythic+ dungeon, but if you're meaning to swap before the key starts then no, you'd lose the Archive stacks.
quiet ginkgo
I didn't know that thanks
proper zealot
Oh, yeah, it was a change they made for Battle for Azeroth.
You used to be able to swap gear during a Mythic+ dungeon in Legion, but they did away with that for BfA.
inner pecan
3SS is better than 2SS 1Archive
Archive is a decent trait in m+ but not as good as SS at all
The only reason people run it is because it's readily available at 385
spring iron
How important is it to conserve energy and when should I do that?
grizzled jay
ilvl is a big question. I have a 345 head with SoB and a 360 with SS and one 370 archive.
Then I have 385 DD shoulders, a 370 with SoB and Archive and one 370 with Blightborne.
Chest is the 370 SS one which im guessing is better than everything else at 370.
Any ideas what the best combo would be?
grizzled jay
M+ sorry
inner pecan
yeah I'd go with ss helm, blightborne shoulders, ss chest
grizzled jay
Interesting. What you guys say is exactly what a 10-bosses-20-sec sim says. Ive been running that for a while was just curious cause i got lots of new pieces lately. Tnx for input
What is ?
😂 😂
You guys think wearing my 385 DD shoulders on tyrannical weeks is fine or is it same ol same ol in the end
wind abyss
how did you get azerite items like 375ilvl with SS? I have just 340 SS shoulders for 2 months
grizzled jay
360 helm from world boss and 370 chest from uldir
proper zealot
Basically just since they scaled up the emissary rewards.
I have 375 Shrouded Suffocation shoulders that I got from an emissary quest reward and then there's an easy Shrouded Suffocation chest piece off of Fetid Devourer in Uldir.
proper zealot
Thank you. : )
You can get a 375 Shrouded Suffocation chest piece from emissary, too.
Everything but an SS helm, basically.
That you need to get lucky with you weekly Mythic+ cache for.
grizzled jay
385 SS helm is the first thing im buying with new currency
strange python
Hey guys, started playing rogue just a few weeks ago and still learning basics, so excuse the probably stupid questions: 1. Is it ok to rupture with 4 combo points or always just with 5? 2. If I have 4 combo points, do I multilate one more time or can I (for example) envenom to lose combo points?
grizzled jay
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
wind abyss
shit, it looks for me alike my experience in Legion when I got two top tier legendaries as last ones
proper zealot
My Mythic+ set is actually so nuts. One Archive, two Shrouded Suffocation, three Heed My Call and three Resounding Protection, and all pieces are 375. 😄 @grizzled jay
grizzled jay
Cool
proper zealot
@strange python You're always going to use a finisher (Envenom or Rupture) at either 4 or 5 Combo Points. You won't Mutilate at 4 Combo Points because that's a waste.
grizzled jay
Need to up my AP to get 375 upgrade
proper zealot
My Heart of Azeroth's at 30.5 right now.
grizzled jay
Yeah im almost 27been slacking
strange python
@proper zealot thanks! @grizzled jay thanks for the guide as well!
grizzled jay
Havent done anything regarding ap
proper zealot
I just knock out the AP world quests each day and that's about it.
Doesn't take too long and there's really nothing else to do.
grizzled jay
Yeah gonna do that today plus the island expeditions
Cause im falling behind a tad too much
proper zealot
I hate Island Expeditions. : /
I sometimes do the weekly and I sometimes don't. Depends on how much I hate myself on that given day. ; )
velvet kernel
Lol I’m only 25
proper zealot
Dirty casual. ;p
velvet kernel
I just do a lot of m+
I don’t do weld quests
Burnt myself out first 3 weeks
From rep grind
World
proper zealot
I can definitely understand that. I did the rep grind, too, but dropping down to "just AP" world quests is a lot lighter of a load, so I don't mind it too much.
proper zealot
I want to do Mythic+ more, but joining PuGs is terrible and I don't have a consistent group of friends that really do 'em.
proper zealot
Like I pugged my way up to 1k, which isn't even that high now anymore, and that's it.
Yeah, I did used to play a Mage.
velvet kernel
Yh I remember u from mage disc
proper zealot
Haha, hopefully that's a good thing. 😄
thin trout
waddup fellow rouges
velvet kernel
Hey
proper zealot
It's a great picture, I can't blame you. ; )
velvet kernel
😂
thin trout
Guys, apart from simming because i'm not sure how good of a representation it is for M+, but generally as T2 trait we want to have have the buff that gives us haste, and then Unstable Flames (crit) right?
thin trout
heed it is then 😃
velvet kernel
overwhelming power then heed
steep obsidian
haste is not great stat for multi target
proper zealot
Haste is the weakest stat for AoE.
velvet kernel
^^
but if you are talking about overwhelming power it probs cause you can get more stats
shy mica
In the TB window do u guys manage to get 3 envenoms off all the time?
I'm struggling at times to get 3 off
inner pecan
3 will rarely happen outside of opener/lust
proper zealot
You'll get three off inside of Vendetta, otherwise it's only two.
inner pecan
2 is fine
thin trout
so for M+, it's okay to overcap Combo points to get off 4 garrotes or do u want to cast 3 garrotes, use Rupture and then use another garrote
from stealth
proper zealot
I think it's triple Subterfuge Garrote into Crimson Tempest and then fourth Garrote into Rupture spreading. I know with >5 you don't worry about Garrote at all, outside of Subterfuge.
thin trout
wait wut we take Crimson Tempest in M+?
proper zealot
Uh-huh, aside from like King's Rest.
thin trout
xD good to know then ;D
with rapture spreading u mean spamming FoK and hittinh evyreitnh with Rupture?
proper zealot
Yeah, you end up spamming Fan of Knives at 4+ targets and getting Rupture on everything for the Energy regeneration through Venomous Wounds and then use Crimson Tempest as your finisher instead of Envenom, when you're not needing to refresh Ruptures.
proper zealot
Big thing is whether or not the target(s) will live for Rupture's duration.
Like if they're just going to get blown up then obviously you won't dump CPs into Ruptures.
thin trout
yaeh, haven't done any high key yet, but stuff just dies so fast atm
velvet kernel
tbh just watch speed
thin trout
watch speed?
proper zealot
In which things die.
proper zealot
Not Flawless?
velvet kernel
you are na?
thin trout
is this a streamer?
inner pecan
yes
there are a lot of good high m+ rogue streamers since rogue is such a popular class in high m+ this season
velvet kernel
but speed is best yeah
inner pecan
speed, flawless, seliathan are 3 good ones
velvet kernel
xD
inner pecan
speed is the highest rated rogue in the world
but you'd have to be naive to think that highest rank automatically means most skilled rogue
velvet kernel
he is siberian