As you have to give up 1/6 of your cool traits instead of 1/3
#assassination
spice surge
hollow stone
It ends in the same situation people have been bitching about all xpac "this 370 is mandatory because i dont have another raid trait piece i can use so the 385 w better trait i got from my cache is unusable in raid"
hollow stone
The ones that sim highest
primal gazelle
i like array tho
slim jolt
obv
primal gazelle
its like a guarantee "upgrade" week to week regardless of how minor it is
hollow stone
You like array because it closes the gap of the missing stats you cant get
If you just had 10 stacks worth of haste baseline, wouldnt that be better?
spice surge
@slim jolt Anything with heavy haste+your second best stat
hollow stone
Thats what i mean
vapid moth
I still dont have an azerite piece with array lmao
hollow stone
I know. It does. I agree, but wouldnt you rather have 3k more dps in all situations because you have equivalent haste level to what the array buffs put you at? Thats the point im trying to make
slim jolt
@spice surge Know anything from a specific raid/dungeon that I should aim for? I'll probably end up simming but its a matter of setting up evrey ring really
desert vault
So generally with opener, Subt/SS/TB, you want to use GCB after Vanish > 2x garrote?
Or use GCB with Vendetta in opener?
primal gazelle
well.. if they started us off with 10 baseline array, they'll just buff the boss's hp by that same amount
spice surge
๐คท depends on wether crit or mastery is second best and i literally have no idea which dungeons drops which rings
But BiS lists are irrelevant with titanforging anyway
slim jolt
np man ty anyway ๐
primal gazelle
with gradual increases in array, your character can at least feel stronger week by week instead of being "stuck" because your shit rng and get no upgrades
strange python
@desert vault Sim it and check APL
hollow stone
Imo, and im not a dev so idk, but array is there to make bosses easier from week to week and to allow us to hit those "caps" of stats to make us feel like playing is cleaner. When max ilvl increases, you wont need that same spoon feeding
primal gazelle
well it isnt necessary to clear a +15 or anything like that, like its no big deal
vs if you get stuck on a boss for weeks and weeks, your guild will prob get demoralized and break up at one point
spice surge
I mean getting stronger every week in m+ is gonna be a thing next patch anyway becuase more deterministic rewards from the weekly chest
strange python
Not necessarily every week
primal gazelle
not really, since you just need to clear ONE +15 dungeon at that point
you wouldnt need to clear a 16, 17, 18, 19,20 etc
hollow stone
In summary, imo, being "forced" to wear a piece to be competitive is dumb
primal gazelle
assuming they bump the requirement for 420 weekly gear to m+15
hollow stone
Just emphasizing this is my opinion and you are welcome to disagree
strange python
or is it +10
spice surge
Assuming that they will just rescale the dungeons so that +10 is the cap
strange python
Well if they're going to cap it to +10
spice surge
Since they made "seasons"
strange python
Then theres no point in doing +11 and so on
spice surge
Same as now then
marble hemlock
you get more gear
primal gazelle
people do it for the challenge
strange python
Chance to get more gear
marble hemlock
its not a chance once you hit certain thresholds
desert vault
how do you view the APL for your particular sim?
marble hemlock
i.e. a +15 is always 5 items, sometimes 6
a +18 is always 6 items, sometimes 7
etc.
spice surge
Its 40% for an extra item per level iirc
primal gazelle
my point is, you dont need to feel stronger in m+ week by week because you only need to clear ONE +10 anyways
marble hemlock
yup
primal gazelle
i wonder if blizz will even nerf the mythic bosses like they normally do after 2-3 months
or if array is their answer
marble hemlock
there will be some incremental nerfs
primal gazelle
idk some of their previous nerfs were significant
desert vault
like making the ring on fetid debuff smaller!
marble hemlock
array isnt big enough of a buff to make fights feel easier from week to week
desert vault
stupid ass thing
marble hemlock
so reducing number of debuffs on fetid by one, lowering add health on mythrax, having 1 less add spawn
stuff like that
desert vault
yeah there are so many debuffs on Fetid, kind of silly
primal gazelle
maybe zul hp so sub rogues arent as required
spring chasm
memento killed it first week with 3 rogues
marble hemlock
its just that for the fairly low ilvl that most guilds first faced zul at, you "wanted" or "needed" the large amount of rogues to not get a third wave of adds
but you can just play them same as the others
desert vault
I feel like I never change my gear and my stat weights are just all over the damn place
marble hemlock
and get like
desert vault
hehe agi second to last
marble hemlock
1 or 2 more stacks from the locus, its not that big of a deal
desert vault
can you only view the APL of your sim on the desktop app?
desert vault
ah ok, sweet
heh, the logs for my first vectis kill is so bad ... just huge gaps of nothing ...
Feels good missing a garrote in opener too, gar > rupt > missed garrote from the start ๐
desert vault
yeah, was groups first kill and I was brought it way late cause I've been gone
so they had several dozen attempts I think I had ... 10ish
strange python
well youve killed it
sick monolith
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
Its basically an extra buff in Uldir when you have a raid trait on
It grants you an X amount of secondary stats
desert vault
watched three chests drop, and none to me ๐
on Vectis, would have let me get back to my 2x SS build, but nope!
onyx edge
Hey guys, what is your rotation for the second round of offensive CD ? Using 1xarchive, 2xSS and exsanguinate.
strange python
clap, taken 17k marker with 370 wpns ๐ฆ
sick monolith
do i need to download omnicc for CD's to show up on WA?
strange python
noper
charred oar
best traits for mythic raiding atm?
hybrid chasm
-> bloodmallet/herodamage
haughty lily
DD
spice surge
Herodamage is better than bloodmallet
But simming your avaliable options is gonna be the most optimal for your damage
weary granite
Hey, i've got a question about the opening rotation for i think all of the written openers on the guide. Why is it supposed to be garrote>rupture>garrote (instead of Rupture>garrote for the 10% dmg buff from elaborate planning) if i'm using Marked for death on pre-pull and already have 5 combo points?
weary granite
ooh really? it has marked for death in the pre-pull at 18 seconds
that makes more sense though. thanks
spice surge
It says if talented, which you shouldnt have. I agree its worded fairly poorly though
echo night
Why is herodamage showing that MfD is the superior choise for M+ on trinkets?
For exhang build
Is it just to point out that trinket values change alot according to talents?
hollow stone
Because if you use mfd to its highest potential it would be better than vigor for m+
I shoulda made that if bigger
And bold
And underlined
Maybe flashing
desert vault
heh
pretty much
hmm, i wonder if SoB would be Archive in M+ ... could do Twist, SS, and SoB ... might have to mess with that
echo night
A mate of mine tested 2x SoB @355&370, gave him 220 agi PER target
Along with 1x SS
So SoB is really fucking strong on big packs
hollow stone
Prob depends on your tank tbh
If youre doing big pulls sob is prob going to be better
echo night
Idd
desert vault
yeah ... figured it would be really close
echo night
#DKTanks<3
desert vault
I can just swap without having to reforge, so will try it just for fun on some lower keys
desert vault
right, i just want to experiment with it some is all
i don't run really high keys, just 10s and 11s really, not big into m+
I just want some freaking DD traits, have none to even play with, well I think I have a 325 in my bag still
echo night
Well by high i mean 10ish+ and low is 1-6/7 in my eyes xD for a casual like myself
haughty peak
How do people pick between Exang and TB? Just by simming or is the someting else going into picking between them? I havnt seem to be able to find any topics on this
echo night
Well by high i mean 10ish+ and low is 1-6/7 in my eyes xD for a casual like myself
Is DD good for exhang?
Or TB only?
And PB ofc
desert vault
I dunno, I run TB still so that's why I want a DD
Running a 385 twist but would almost give that up for 370 DD, I bet they would sim really close is my guess
echo night
I have 385 Rezan 370 unstable and i checked gear compare.... 330 SS beat both of them :(
desert vault
ouch, dang
echo night
I gain 1.3k dps going for 340SS on both slots :(
On 6 targets 40 sec no buff
BUT
On ST it was only 200 dps difference
Rip ilvl :(
arctic crow
On mythic fetid, are sin yours supposed to be on the big blob?
I keep seeing posts saying that
My guild has me on little blobs
desert vault
Being on big is better I think, can use Vend/Vanish and get full effect, can't on little ones really
final stone
@arctic crow sin on small add no bueno they need to have you on big add
unless you go sub then small add would be fine
mossy hazel
By big adds and little adds you're just referring to the tumors and the 1 jumbo tumor, right?
arctic crow
I'll see what my raid lead says lol
We have a Frost and they need big blobs too
Dk
hollow stone
What kanye said (i know but its funnier this way); if theyre gonna put you on small adds, go sub. But if youre playing sin you should be on the big add. Even w a fdk in your group
wild stone
Do you guys think its a good Outlaw or Sin M+ week? Sin for boss.. and for big bolstered but smacking orbs with mutilate is a lot of energy loss. I usually play outlaw, but with 3 SS now, im considering Sin for m+
arctic crow
There's a vid of a sin rogue Massivz doing well with small blobs
But he's on the boss half the time doing bleeds
arctic crow
I was running tb too and it was hell
wheat zealot
He was just making the best of a shitty situation
inner pulsar
In a moment of weakness, I offered to go Sub for the small adds last night after a tough night trying to re-kill Fetid
I dont know what I was thinking
glacial grotto
has anyone got a weakaura for shrouded suffocation?
cant figure out how to do it without writing a bunch of code
strange python
What kind of wa
glacial grotto
just a countdown timer of how long it lasts
i think i might have figured out a solution
(i only just started playing rogue so im just trying to hammer in the basics)
inner pulsar
@arctic crow I don't particularly care for it, and I sim about 1k less vs Sin, and previously we weren't having trouble
sick monolith
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
glacial grotto
now that i think about it, its a subterfuge weakaura i need isnt it ๐ค
inner pulsar
We have use 2 min on pull, 3 min on first adds. So you had 3 min on first Adds, 2 min cooldowns on second (with 3 min folks using pots), and lusting on 3rd add (with 2 min folks using pots there)
We werent having an issue until last night. I do about 140k on the first add, close to 400 on the second, and if we get to 3rd add its probably a kill. It just never seemed necessary before
tranquil pivot
how do you use gaycaller? before or after vendetta?
got the trinket now, finally...
lucid bolt
i pop it after the 2nd rupture
i mean garrote
so my opener is garrote>rupture>garrote>gale caller> toxic > envenom
or somethning like that
oh yeah vendetta in there
full flicker
y u no vendetta
lucid bolt
lol okay let me rewrite that
garrote>rupture>garrote>vendetta>galecaller>tb>evenom i think thats it
vendetta and galecaller at same time
since it doesnt have a global cooldown
nimble cobalt
is it still ok to post raidbots link here?
strange python
Ill allow it
lucid bolt
people do it all the time
mild dagger
Should I use poisoned knife with sharpened blades at a special point or just at 30 stacks?
strange python
I remember someone in here wrote at 29
sick cradle
Should I cast envenom when EB is falling off or should I wait for Envenom buff to fall off?
opaque grotto
EP you mean?
sick cradle
yes, EP
opaque grotto
EP definitely
spice surge
Dont do a 2cp envenom to keep up EP
inner pulsar
But get everything else right before worrying about that. Not suggesting you aren't already doing that, but uptime and cooldown usage are more important than EP uptime
sick cradle
I played assa throughout legion, got the handle on most things
crystal vault
maiden siren
more dmg 4Head
simple meteor
1 archive 1 double dose 1 ss for dingle and swap with rapture the double dose on aoe
mild dagger
According to sim it is telling me I should Vanish > Toxic Blade > Envenom.. This is with Master talent, does that seem right?
sick oyster
is sim says so it is
mossy hazel
I like TB before van personally
spice surge
Its gonna depend a bit on your mastery
But in the end the difference is negligible at best
inner pulsar
Most people prefer to TB then Vanish
But if you do it the other way, I promise it isn't going to be the difference between a kill and a wipe
mossy hazel
Personally I like TB before van because I ven mut tb (then another mut if necessary) so I don't overcap in opener
You're going to be kicking yourself when you wipe with the boss at 33hp remaining
inner pulsar
@spice surge Do my 10 for me this week
spice surge
Doing explosive+bolstering more than one time
inner pulsar
I probably screwed something up bigger than TB Vanish timing through the course of the fight
ugh
What is easiest this week?
I feel like it is always Freehold
spice surge
always freehold or atal
inner pulsar
Eh ok
mossy hazel
Is there a good healer pick this week?
wheat zealot
Any of them should be fine
hollow stone
Waycrest is pretty easy this week (assuming you get the non shite path)
Yea. This isnt a healing week
This is a dps week
Smart dps makes this week a jokr
Joke*
mossy hazel
Yea I was just wondering if my MW was going to struggle
But then I remembered he's only doing like +3-4s still
wheat zealot
Having a tank that handles almost 50% of the orbs himself is really nice lol
hollow stone
Only if you dont kill bombs :p
Yea. My tank does most of the work and we just kept adds even
Ez timers
mild dagger
When you sim 16750 but do 12500 on dummies :3
spice surge
You aren't full buffed, potioning and using feast on dummies though
stark stag
- no bl
inner pulsar
Also you might be doing something wrong
Best way to test that theory is to turn off all those buffs in the sim and see what it says
mild dagger
Well I've been used to playing Exsang and Subterfuge, got 385 Sharpened Blades in weekly so now I am Master Assassin and TB instead, it just feels bad to play :/
inner pulsar
Also no Reorg Stacks
Ooofff, my sim dps drops from 17.4k to 12.6, so you are probably right in the wheellhouse
mild dagger
Yeah trying to sim without buffs and stacks
inner pulsar
I did not realize the buffs and stacks made that much of a difference
mild dagger
Well to be fair, monk buff that gives +5% physical in itself is huge
mild dagger
So in sims it says 70+ seconds of waiting, is that just when you're waiting for energy to cast next ability?
inner pulsar
The APL pools a bit yes
mild dagger
Damn going from 16.7 kto 12k
odd wadi
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Do my azerite traits stack?
The damage part of azerite Stacks.
Other components can be assumed to stack however with some exceptions and limitations.
You can check https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/1t-t22-assassination for estimations.
inner pulsar
@mild dagger So there you go, not bad
mild dagger
@inner pulsar Yeah I just aswell as others not think it mattered that much lol
odd wadi
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around some trait combo's, for m+'s is triple SS still king?
mystic charm
should i try to achieve to 2x mutilate and 1x envenom in the 4 second EP window ?
or just 2x mutilate
subtle bane
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
agile phoenix
at what point do you use master assass?
mild dagger
When sim tells you it is better :p
odd wadi
how do you properly sim for m+? or should i just follow herodamage stacking recomendations?
stark stag
@odd wadi u can't really sim for m+ for sure .. But the closest settings are <5-6 bosses, 40 sec>
odd wadi
Allright, cuz herodamage still says to stack 3*SS is optimal for M+/Dungeons, i supose this is still correct?
inner pulsar
Do you have 3 SS traits?
odd wadi
i sadly do not, so i'm just going on sim results right now for my trait choises
ember vortex
If I sim 5 or 6 bosses for stat weights it says haste is our lowest star priority, but that leaves me hosed for boss fights. What's the proper way to balance stats for mythic plus? cuz the aoe and single target stats weights are 100% opposite of each other
inner pulsar
Then probably not worth worrying about if 3 SS is best, as you don't have a way to target traits currently
@ember vortex You have a lot of equal ilvl gear with wildly different stats on it?
ember vortex
In my bags I have a lot of gear that I can move around to get different stats.
cobalt gyro
I mostly run m+ with 1x ss and 2x archive
ember vortex
I wanna balance my stats so I have enough haste for boss fights but enough crit/mastery to blow up big aoe's
inner pulsar
Well, assuming that is the case, I would say you spend the majority of your time fighting trash in M+, and would lean that direction. I mean I don't do that, because my gear is built for raiding, so I slap on some SS traits and go on my way for M+
ember vortex
I have a gear setup that gives me 40% masery 27%crit but only 6% haste that blows up aoe but feels bad on single target
inner pulsar
However, I would say in most cases, you are better off equipping the highest ilvl in each slot
mild dagger
If you're ever going for Zul Mythic, keep all that mastery gear... It's insane in Sub :p
weary granite
What happens when you envenom again before the dot has finished? does it pandemic, or stack?
weary granite
does that mean it shouild always fall off before using it again?
inner pulsar
Depends on luck and your traits
weary granite
ah, kk. haven't looked at traits much, just trying to make good habits while leveling.
inner pulsar
Really, don't worry about it. Try and be mindful to not cast another finisher inside of EP (outside of times like Vend and Lust), but otherwise don't worry too much about that stuff
weary granite
ep?
inner pulsar
Elaborate Planning
inner pulsar
No. You don't want to cast another finisher inside of EP so you get higher uptime
white igloo
No it just means youโre wasting ep uptime
weary granite
ok
glass tusk
is there any changes over night? my sim dps dropped by 200....
glass tusk
i mean pachwerk
inner pulsar
No
glass tusk
((
inner pulsar
You changed a piece of gear or a sim option
glass tusk
a changed gems for better
inner pulsar
Link your sim
subtle tundra
just wanted to say this because its my first good titanforge this expac got a 390 harlans
feelsgoodman
inner pulsar
Nice
inner pulsar
You were setting it to custom food before?
glass tusk
yes a lways had 55 haste there
inner pulsar
Don't know my friend. Unrelated not, I think you should technically swap that agi gem for a haste gem
glass tusk
i had a crit there and in the cape instead
wich is worse
but showed me 200 morer
ok il try to play around after raid
spice surge
That sounds wrong, because the gem itself (compared to no other gem) doesnt even give 200
glass tusk
yeah thats why its strange
inner pulsar
I'm not suggesting that is the cause, I'm saying your current stat weights value haste over agility, so that is a change you should make now
spice surge
Which means you simmed wrong somewhere
ocean rain
what do you guys think of new azerite?
glass tusk
il swap it for agi later
wheat zealot
Yeah thats too high, gems are worth like a little less than 100 dps each
spice surge
Very boring for assa
wheat zealot
Compared to no gem slot
spice surge
Sub gets cool traits
inner pulsar
No, other way, swap OUT the Agi gem for a haste gem
spice surge
Assa ones are super boring
inner pulsar
And do you sim with Haste food because your raid doesn't use feasts?
wheat zealot
Feast gives 100 agi right?
inner pulsar
Correct
wheat zealot
So you should always be using feast
inner pulsar
Correct
wheat zealot
If you can
spice surge
200 #PandaMasterrace
inner pulsar
Rouge panda my ass
spice surge
Male ofc
inner pulsar
No hiding that big bitch in the shadows
inner pulsar
I don't know, but Pandas irl are terrible, can't support them in game
glass tusk
@inner pulsar yeah thats why im using haste food, but yesterday i simmed with haste too
vocal wave
How do you do your Exsangs on Vectis on adds?
inner pulsar
@glass tusk Yeah I saw you say that before, I was just wondering why you were doing it at all
quartz ember
When using EP should I be pooling a little before using envenom?
mild dagger
@inner pulsar I am a panda in game... And IRL...
wheat zealot
You dont need to pool for anything
ripe nimbus
Wait wasn't this discord pro pool 2 weeks ago and people tried to argue with me because I said u don't need to pool and I don't.. now everyone's anti pool? The world we live in
visual token
Some people have decided not to pool.
wheat zealot
Chad rogues press buttons on cd, who needs energy 
hollow stone
Pools are a lot of maintenance and dont add enough value to your property imo. But i guess if you have the space for a pool you might as well
copper hawk
Is shrouded suffocation worth using outside of m+?
inner pulsar
@ripe nimbus You changed people's mind's bro
hollow stone
๐ฌ every time pooling is brought up i say the same thing, wanted to switch it up. But i guess we're back to it... "as long as youre not capping energy or cps, youre not losing dps". So pool, dont pool, w/e. Just dont cap your stuffs
inner pulsar
Though you your Assassin APM is high argrument got torpedoed
vocal wave
How do you guys handle Vectis opener?
Which add do you Exsang?
And which one do you Vanish?
inner pulsar
Haha
vocal wave
I'm running 2x SS
visual token
Lol
vocal wave
So Exsang just seems better
ripe nimbus
Torpedoed how I don't actually read what people write on here lol
vocal wave
Yeah I use SS and Exsang
inner pulsar
Because we failed to account for the fact that WCL counts mutilate as 2 actions
hollow stone
He wants to know what cds you use when
inner pulsar
So it is inflated there
ripe nimbus
Yah I guess it's still not the slowest apm spec in the game
That belongs to frost dk I think
inner pulsar
Aff lock too right?
frosty gyro
g>r>g>ve>m>r>ex>m>m>en>m>m>en>va>g(add)>r(add)>g(vectis)>m>m>e>m>m>r(vectis)
hollow stone
Ehh. Ben afflock is still pretty active due to spamming fillers
proper zealot
Wait, what? I had to explain to someone back in Legion that the Assassination APM was inflated because of Mutilate. That was still a thing up until recently?
drifting hare
can someone explain me what the big DPS different makes between these both? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oBUaWPFzTmWESd62BZfTAJ ||| https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/DEXzJgVkVMMfPAY1MGnHw
inner pulsar
It is still a thing
inner pulsar
@drifting hare Why dont we see any Reorg stacks on the first sim?
proper zealot
Does the low one have RA stacks? I can't see them, from a glance.
Second one has 7 but I didn't see any on the first.
inner pulsar
There you go
visual token
Orig is huge
static sky
Itโs clearly the difference in Transmog quality, worth minimum 1k Dps
drifting hare
but the first got 7 stacks in our raid group as well
i dont know why they dont get displayed in sim
inner pulsar
THe sim options are wrong
Meaning, the options that person selected when they ran the sim were chosen incorrectly
frosty gyro
I had to switch some stuff around to play sub for zul and I swear my sin sim dps went down 200 after switching back but I can't figure out why ๐ค
inner pulsar
Yeap
inner pulsar
Hmmmm
proper zealot
Oh, yeah, they do. The second one is a Top Gear sim.
frosty gyro
Still have top play sub again on monday so not worth switching back to quick yet
proper zealot
Yeah, I dunno. Gear looks identical, and so are RA stacks.
inner pulsar
Maybe the other guy was right, maybe some of the changes pushed for Subt use in mutli target affected the single target sim as well
Because he was seeing about a 200 dps drop as well
frosty gyro
Sin has so much broken stuff in the apl
safe matrix
Is there a difference in applied enchants/gems
inner pulsar
No, it is all the same
safe matrix
Since you can manipulate those in top gear but not gear compare
frosty gyro
You can manipulate them in both
safe matrix
Not as generally
inner pulsar
Well, either way, they are all the same
frosty gyro
If someone else had the same issue it's probably that
RIP APL
I wonder if they fixed TB+SS yet
proper zealot
What do you mean?
proper zealot
Oh, the application of Rupture while the target still has the Toxic Blade debuff?
frosty gyro
Yeah
Because rupture hits pandemic range there due to SS opener
it's at 7 seconds pandemic being 7.2
proper zealot
Mhmm, that makes sense.
I looked at Toxic Blade earlier in the week and I feel like its conditions need a little more work, because the only thing it really looks at is whether or not Rupture's on the target.
More conditions would probably solve the issue that you noticed with the Pandemic timing.
frosty gyro
It likes to rupture when it should envenom a lot
Well not a lot
But usually like 2-3 times per sst
oof
this one is pretty bad
proper zealot
Curiouser and curiouser.
proper zealot
Yeah, that's not good...
You said this profile is using Shrouded Suffocation traits, right?
Well, I assume it's your profile, which has two.
lone junco
@drifting hare Hobbstar doesnt have any orrigination array stacks.
should account for most of that dps gap
ggg inc.
rip that 0:14 CT tho
hollow stone
Why are there more sub rogues than usual in high m+ keys this week? Can you storm off the bombs or something dumb like that?
hollow stone
Is it for energy conservation then?
muted jacinth
tyrannical is decent for sub storm into boss
hollow stone
So does storm hit them or??
safe matrix
It does not
muted jacinth
aoe doesnt hit explosives
hollow stone
Cause, i mean, 55 energy to mut em feels bad
bronze kelp
but isnt pumping evis into orbs a hard overkill?
hollow stone
Yea, thats what i thought
dark crag
Yes
safe matrix
Orbs health scales with difficulty though
dark crag
On 10 an quick draw ps was enough
marble hemlock
dunno, playing sub for orb duty seems weird
dark crag
I play outlaw this week
marble hemlock
when you can just play assa, play PB instead of CT, and oneshot orbs with envenom
compared to playing sub where you waste 30-50% of your damage on massively overkilling explosives that have 15k hp with a 100k eviscerate
safe matrix
๐คท dunno then
hollow stone
Env would be a decent solution but if theres more than 1 it can get hairy fast
safe matrix
Maybe shadowstrike or something then
marble hemlock
so unless theres some sectec shenanigans going on
im just gonna say that its because people are lazy
hollow stone
Thats kinda my take on it
marble hemlock
outlaw is the prime spec for explosive weeks, and assa comes not far behind
hollow stone
We brought a hunter so we could be lazy on them
Made him do all the work w the tank lol
fallen sandal
hollow stone
Yea, outlul makes perfect sense but i couldnt really see the logic for sub
pastel wasp
Orange juice > apple juice
dark crag
I wish blizz would up the hp and make them aoe'able
hollow stone
We made our hunter n tank do it ๐
marble hemlock
boomy isnt all that great for it
assa is pretty decent actually
you just need to get a few ruptures up quickly and then you can take care of all of them
hollow stone
It just felt bad mutting them
hollow stone
But your env recommendation sounded better
marble hemlock
you still proc PB, you still get the envenom buff
hollow stone
Exactly
marble hemlock
its not as great as it was in legion
ripe nimbus
Switch to outlaw for explosives. It's actually the best spec to deal with explosives. Every ability 1 shots and u don't lose actual dps by switching to them cause blade flurry
marble hemlock
where assa was insanely good for explosive up until ~27s where envenom started not oneshotting them anymore
yeah
outlaw is really good for it
since you still get the bf cleave and basically just lose a minor amount of dps by not having an actual trashmob as your main target
hollow stone
Prob just play outlul then. My outlaw traits are really good for m+
385 ds, 385 ace, 370 ds
Yee
I kinda wanna try the env rec tho @marble hemlock
marble hemlock
i mean its fine
hollow stone
๐ค
marble hemlock
you lose some dps by not going CT, and some more by having to env explos instead of mobs
hollow stone
Thanks fellas
marble hemlock
but its nothing major
hollow stone
Yea. But its tyr week anyway and my group usually has a frost mage so
marble hemlock
compared to sub where you use the ability that deals 50% of your damage on an orb, thats quite significant by comparison
hollow stone
And we dont go higher than 12s
marble hemlock
didnt have a chance yet to play sub in explo week to see how sectec behaves
wheat zealot
Putting in evis into an explosive has to be the worst feeling ever as a rogue lol
solar rose
@marble hemlock we boycott pb usage in m+ donโt say that
marble hemlock
nice color change
and yes
i kinda dislike playing PB
i guess in some dungeons you could still run ct, maintain 4+ ruptures, ct, and still have CP for explos
thorn crater
do we have access to anything like wowanalyzer?
for rogues in here?
cause for some reason that site shows me that it doesnt support assassination rogues dno why
spice surge
Because nobody has programmed it
safe matrix
no one maintains it, it was never supported in legion either
safe matrix
yeah, but sin was never
spice surge
But yeah never assa
safe matrix
it might even be a hold out from then cause I cant recall of anyone updating it
basically the best way to find out what you're doing wrong is post your logs, maybe someone here will take a crack at em
lone junco
plus. None of the fights are pure patchwerk. so Analyzer is gonna get stuck prob
safe matrix
in legion it was only good for the general stuff anyways
cunning rapids
with gcaller, when do i sync vanish exang and the trinket after the opener?
valid moss
@marble hemlock you there m8
marble hemlock
wut
valid moss
Double Dose vs Scent of Blood (both 385) for M+?
valid moss
ok I was about to disenchant those shoulders
cerulean walrus
Never DE high ilvl azerite pieces
lone junco
NEVAR
cerulean walrus
Cause you never know when they're gonna decide that some other meme trait is going to be top tier next
lone junco
until I get a copy of each trait in each slot at max level. with good 2nd row
compact haven
hello guys, can some1 explain me if its better to use blindside >30% over muti or is muti still highest prio?
cerulean walrus
Blindside is T-rash though
lone junco
all they have to do is bump PW by a few % more crit rating and ding. top loot
valid moss
๐ alrighty
marble hemlock
yup
lone junco
even if I get exact copy, i use for another spec
cerulean walrus
Yep
marble hemlock
and because i think we all assume that blizzard is gonna fuck up with their promise of "only items you acquire after the patch will provide azerite impurities when scrapped"
cerulean walrus
omegalul yeah keep all of them
marble hemlock
you can probably just delete the old ones, restore them after the patch, and then they will scrap like the new ones
cerulean walrus
That would be pretty damn funny tbh
inb4 they actually decide to roll back the servers once people do that
hardy anchor
For AOE in M+ how many targets should you actively be keeping garotte/rupture on while spamming crimson tempest?
lone junco
bfa is good
cerulean walrus
3
cerulean walrus
at least 3
lone junco
yikes. still 24
novel island
was very annoying not having one acdtivated
cerulean walrus
I'm at 25
hardy anchor
31, that shit is crazy.
novel island
I started 5 weeks after bfa came out, don't feel bad
hardy anchor
I gotta stop slacking on my Islands.
novel island
๐ lol
lone junco
only reason I would want 31, is so that I get 2nd row at the higher ilvls.
lone junco
and.
novel island
OH god it was a fucking joke not a dick
lone junco
the amount needed per level goes down
novel island
don't take it so hard
cerulean walrus
lol
marble hemlock
you dont garrote on >5 mob packs at all, except for the first 3
and should keep 4-5 ruptures for energy sustain
lone junco
you dont garrote at low crit foks? like fok into 1 or 2cp then garrote
@hardy anchor garrote and ct dont interact.
hardy anchor
I mean keeping up that many ruptures will be hard to find the combo points to use CT
lone junco
nah, you will be e capped with 4 ruptures.
and with higher crit rating you are full cps.
with fok fok anyway
marble hemlock
yeah
its basically a combination of having high crit, getting started with energy-sustain early on thanks to triple garrote, setting up the ruptures after your first CT, and by the time your garrotes run out you maintain 5+ ruptures for energy while keeping up the CT debuff
hardy anchor
Cheers man, shall try it out like that. Mainly just finding it hard deciding when to rebleed vs Crimson Tempest spammerino
polar prism
Should master assassin crit show up in my stats while its active like the lego shoulders did?
severe bay
it should work the same way so I would say yes. you can also see master assassin buff on your buff frames when you are in stealth
limpid willow
been thinkin all week about how much dps im losing for using the g'huun trinket instead of something useful
keeps me up at night
sour current
anyone know of a WA that tracks empowered/exsanguinated bleeds?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lone junco
@sour current
hollow stone
@lone junco they increase emissary gold to 2k. You can afford gems again!
hollow stone
Huzzah!
lone junco
for some reason we dont turn on repair gold during progress any more.
so I got down to 800g last nigh
we hanging in there tho
sour current
thank you i'll look through those ones
haughty lily
CT on Zek? or is PB better?
nocturne gate
guess depends how geared ur team is and how much aoe dps u have
trim nebula
hey guys I have been raiding since the end of legion and was hoping to get a little help with improving my parces
I push like 50% parce in my raids and 15-20% for 373
I would appreciate any help
frosty gyro
get good
dark crag
Show logs and armory
trim nebula
uh I have the cowl of dark portents equiped
idk why it doesnt show that
I have other logs from previous weeks
I have been 373 for most of them
formal berry
@trim nebula why is your higher ilv dagger in OH
trim nebula
I think I had switched from outlaw and it puts my weaker dagger in mh and stronger one in oh for some reason
it isn't
tidal sedge
anyone else kinda loving explosive for the instant energy regen
glacial steppe
strange python
gimme 385dagger and i will fuck up ur sim :X
dark crag
No
strange python
at least our alt rogues have 385 daggers too from zul ๐
sleek osprey
You could get 2100 and farm weekly caches?
hollow cloud
same 
sleek osprey
duelist boxes drop 385
dark crag
Or 385 shoulders and i have 340
spice surge
Gladiator (2.4) drops 385 though
balmy perch
what are your thoughts on ss/subterfuge for mythic zekvoz
crisp hollow
idk why people aren't getting better gear just loot it you losers ๐ค
crisp hollow
they don't have 10mil cuz the cap is 9,999,999 i'm pretty sure
trim nebula
so I got a question, how exactly do I use pooling of energy in a fight?
balmy perch
before you hit cap
trim nebula
so 80-90%
spice surge
Pooling barrely matters
spice surge
Focus on optimizing your cd usage first, is way more important
spice surge
Tbf all azerite gear you can get atm will be garbage in 8.1
hollow stone
Thats not here now thooooo
spice surge
Prob gonna come fairly soon
rocky notch
raid probably won't be out until jan
hollow stone
Yea. But i doubt next raid tier will come alongside it so. Should still be good for a few more months
spice surge
But any other gear upgrades you get will be usable in 8.1 too
hollow stone
Prob
rocky notch
raid tiers don't come out in dec
hollow stone
8.1 prob. Next raid tier unlikely
strange python
seli how many keys have u done today ? :p
spice surge
ToV did in legion
formal berry
ass uses a lot of energy pooling right?
does sub do that? I would rather play the spec with less downtime
tribal marlin
sub and outlaw have downtimes
spice surge
Play outlaw if you want low downtime
tribal marlin
oh sorry I miss-understood
When I say sub and outlaw have issue with downtime, I mean you are really loosing tons of dps when you are not able to reach melee range
formal berry
Does sub have periods of auto attacking to pool energy, like assassination?
spice surge
Yes, slightly less though
formal berry
Thanks
pine notch
This might be a dumb question but I didn't see it the FAQ, does Exang only apply to your main target?
spice surge
Yes
pine notch
ah okay thank you
spice surge
And you have to be in melee range to use it
strange python
good night good fight guys
Hey guys, new here. Overall, how do you think Outlaw stacks up against Assassination in M+ and Raids?
Thanks! Cheers! ๐
safe matrix
!spec
prisma monolithBOT
All specs are good. Specific ones shine in specific areas.
Check the following resources for the facts:
Warcraft Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#class=Rogue
Raider.io: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict
safe matrix
but both are good, they have different sort of strengths though
bright shale
Is 3x Archive what I wanna shoot for, for mythic raiding ?
wild gyro
Nope
bright shale
What's the ideal atm ?
wild gyro
Look at bloodmallet and herodamage
abstract raven
Spec?
abstract raven
People play everything, so there is that. Single arch, ddx2 or ss and dd.
wild gyro
Sounds like you donโt either
bright shale
No shit. I asked.
wild gyro
That sucks for you
bright shale
People like you don't belong in this discord
wild gyro
Cool
abstract raven
God you're a tool
spice surge
???? He gave you the answer why are you flaming him
Looking at herodamage you see that you want 1 archives/laser matrix and 2 double dose
bright shale
I don't see that on herodamage
abstract raven
Go to warcraft logs and use your eyes then.
onyx rock
Just Single Target the Boss and switch on the ads... no need to safe cds
marsh bloom
and CT right?
abstract raven
Yeah that was my pad thing, dunno if that was you I was talking to or not.
spice surge
@bright shale See archives at the top? Only the first one is good
Then you see that every double dose is worth more than the secondary archives
onyx rock
Its not your job to kill the small ads @marsh bloom
abstract raven
Depends on traits
bright shale
@spice surge Are you evaluating that by saying the difference between the 2nd Arhive and the first ?
onyx rock
Use whatever sims best for you and you like to play
spice surge
First archives on herodamage gives 12.66%, second trait of archives gives 3.59%
Since double dose gives 4.5%
4.5 > 3.59
weary granite
In practice is the usual waiting for energy to pool time reduced when doing m+ compared to raids because of time between packs?
abstract raven
Shouldn't need to with packs tbh. Keep up 3 garrote and 3 ruptures and you will have more energy than you know what to do with.
weary granite
Aight
abstract raven
My usual opener is garrotex3 (i have 2 ss) into rupture then fok into rupture (if over 3) then fok to five into tempest. Then I just go from there. If there is a priority add or one with a lot of health I will hit it with my exang after my tempest and it will always be the one with the long rupture up.
Just my playstyle tho, I'm not the best by any means.
weary granite
Iโm still a novice of novices.
abstract raven
Word, well that opener usually nets me 30-36k on a five pack fight over a ninute.
wild gyro
@abstract raven is correct @bright shale
abstract raven
Also get used to using vendetta liberally, I have run with many rogues that only use it for bosses but you can squeeze in 3 or 4 extra depending on The dungeon
wild gyro
And I use Van for 4+ trash to get more Gar (3xSS)
abstract raven
Big packs of high health mobs can get you really high dps.
wild gyro
Yeah Vendetta is great for big infested targets
weary granite
Aight. If itโs coming off cd mid boss fight then I just pool cp/energy for it right before it comes up or do I just throw it in without doing anything for it?
abstract raven
Well it gives you energy so account for that. But I try to always have it up for bosses.
safe matrix
just gotta plan ahead and not use it lessthan 2 min before a boss
abstract raven
But if it's coming up mid fight because you mistimed something just save vanish for it I guess.
safe matrix
but holding it just for bosses is a dps loss
abstract raven
Then do your normal opener and go from there.
Well yeah, you should be able to judge when you are gonna have a five minute trash clear in between bosses.
safe matrix
it depends on how out of sync it is
but it stems from a mistake of misjudging the time to boss
safe matrix
once you get the rotation down decently you can make judgement calls of where to use it tbh
weary granite
Iโm imagining some 1 who can plan 20(?) seconds ahead could have garrote/rupture falling off at the right time to line it up right, but if(realistically) they were recently applied youโd reapply the buffer versions anyway?
safe matrix
yeah because of pandemic
up to 30% of a buff when you refresh it will be added to the new buff
abstract raven
We dont snapshot like ferals afaik. Only empowered garrote does
safe matrix
garrote from subt, nightstalker snapshots bleeds from stealth, and exsang snapshots on haste
everything else is dynamic
hardy veldt
hey guys, do we a channel here for log review? i feel like im struggling to pull decent numbers
abstract raven
Just post it up I'm sure someone will take a look.
safe matrix
it depends on whos in the channel at the time
abstract raven
Which one in particular are you concerned with?
hardy veldt
mother was the outlier there with the death. i was in the last group, and we were slow on the transition over.
idk. i just feel like the overall rotation has to be fucked. like im parsing super low for my ilvl.. i must be missing something
im willing to bet its an issue with pooling energy
abstract raven
Eh pooling isnt as huge as you might think. It helps for sure but you can parse without it. Gimme a minute
hardy veldt
i really appreciate it friend
hardy veldt
so refresh to full? even if i clip? or is it just vital to only envenom during tb
pastel wasp
or 3
hardy veldt
gotcha
hardy veldt
btw is there a way to look at every ability cast in order?
pastel wasp
abstract raven
Ya
hardy veldt
only able to figureo our damage done per ability
pastel wasp
thats how
abstract raven
There ya go
hardy veldt
fuck thats so much better
pastel wasp
yea was gonna say sometimes you have long delay between muts
i was thinking it could be winds
abstract raven
Yeah it was odd lol. I see no reasons for those gaps
hardy veldt
yeah i absolutely refresh bleeds during tb. thats an easy fix
abstract raven
You're missing an enchant too, just a lil thing but it helps lol
hardy veldt
and for fetid im not sure. maybe knockbacks? they tank it in the middle so i cant cheese with wall
yeah i caught that partway through haha. ended up slapping one on the ring
abstract raven
All good
hardy veldt
i could also pool a bit on fetid for swap to adds
pastel wasp
mine was for mother, not fetid
hardy veldt
but ill rewath the replay for both
hardy veldt
interesting
abstract raven
Yeah bleeds are above 90% from what I can see on my phone lol
hardy veldt
i try hard to only refresh during pandemic too
abstract raven
It also looks like you sat on your vanish too long on fetid.
pastel wasp
odd, you had 'misses' on ur envenoms
hardy veldt
vanish on cd? try and hold second for vendetta?
abstract raven
If you aren't running exang just use it on CD imo
pastel wasp
i had no idea that was possible
hardy veldt
gotcha
hardy veldt
yeah thats wild, as well as the 19% miss on melee for one
abstract raven
Weird
I'm also doing rough math here shadow but it looks like you overcap a decent bit too.
hardy veldt
overcapping energy or cp?
abstract raven
Both, but the energy in assuming is during lust
I do that too because there is no helping it sometimes
hardy veldt
gotcha. i try and aim for 4 or 5cp envenoms, sometimes i end up hitting 5 cp and tb comes up. sometimes i'll toss that out first. othertimes i know i will refresh garrote at 4cp - meaning i might lose a cp there too
thats really great advice guys - im writing this shit down ๐
abstract raven
No man lol. The disc is here to help
hardy veldt
at least i think i have the opener down. with ss, its garrote, rupture, garrote, trinket/vendetta, tb, envenom and then mut/env
tawny meteor
So, I have a quick question, is there a haste cap for assassination rogues? With R/A I'm getting a pretty huge amount of haste.
Alternatively, is there an amount of haste at which I should swap vigor for deeper stratagem
abstract raven
That's how I did it. Now I run exang so it's a lil different.
hardy veldt
no haste cap .
abstract raven
^
hardy veldt
exang better if i have both lions guile and a 385 haste trinket? forget its name
tawny meteor
That's what I thought, thanks, and vigor is still the talent?
hardy veldt
yeah, vigor sims really well compared to others
abstract raven
Haste trinket and double ss is the perfect exang setup. I'm missing that trinket lol
tawny meteor
Cool, it just feels like durring my burst I can't seem to use energy as fast as I am gaining haha
tawny meteor
st.
hardy veldt
interesting, i always feel like id like more energy haha
abstract raven
Same here man, you're gonna overcap but it's only for the first 10 seconds
hardy veldt
how close are your pawn weights
abstract raven
Also if you try out exang shadow feel free to look me up on warcraftlogs. I'm not perfect by any means but I do have the opener down lol
tawny meteor
Pawn weights?
hardy veldt
yeah im going to right now. i've messed around with it in pvp. never pve
sorry - stat weights
abstract raven
Stat weights
hardy veldt
you on thrall or darkspear?
tawny meteor
I'm not even sure how to check that. I just know that I take haste over everything. hah.
hardy veldt
yeah ill look there.
abstract raven
Raidbots
hardy veldt
merc, so when you go to raidbots
abstract raven
And simc
hardy veldt
theres a section for stat weights
i typically run a 5 min st sim with full optimal buffs
i also run one for 4 target, 40 second burst no buffs for m+
tawny meteor
I'm running on default, on the desktop app, not really sure how to check that on it. How do I find it?
abstract raven
You have the addon simc?
safe matrix
raidbots is basically just the simulationcraft program in the cloud
its the same functionality and pretty straight forward so most people just use raidbots
abstract raven
^
weary arrow
is it best to run 3 archive in uldir? or 2 archive and 1 SS?
for taloc as an example
abstract raven
1 arch 2 others
abstract raven
That's what I run.
1 arch 2dd works too but the second arch isnt worth nearly as much
weary arrow
interesting, I would think the added agi would be worth it? I mean l;ooking at the sim dps on azerite traits on wowhead/icy it appears that 3x archive is best
but im looking at logs
and i dont see any 3 archive
hardy veldt
scoobie
abstract raven
Doesn't stack
hardy veldt
bloodmallet will show you azerite rankings
fringe wyvern
For heroic fetid, should I hold my vandetta/vanish for 50% if this pug wants to lust at 50%? If I use it on pull it wont be up for the 50% mark, and i have no idea how long the fight will last lol
weary arrow
I thought the agi did stack