Would be fun though haha
#assassination
sudden sigil
wheat zealot
Usually once you have one stack of a raid trait, non raid traits will outperform at equal ilvl. Unless the non-raid trait is really bad. Of course always 
sudden sigil
You doing 1 ss for a better opener or just running what ever sims highest?
wheat zealot
For m+ always at least one ss. For raid use what sims highest
ebon garden
Feelsbad my sharpened blades sims higher than my SS for raid (both 385) i dont wanna use sharpened blades 
sudden sigil
haha rip
sturdy python
Did you Sim the SS with sub?
ebon garden
yes
sturdy python
Whomp
wheat zealot
Im using x1 385 sb/overwhelming as well
muted jacinth
if it's such a small dps difference I'd stay ss. feels so much smoother
ebon garden
it's still a 400 dps loss if i switch
ebon garden
guess i'll keep using my sb with overwhelming for raids
wheat zealot
@ebon garden whats the 2nd tier trait on the ss
Because overwhelming is probably whats making the difference so major
Shit is godly
ebon garden
it isnt actually simmed to see
2nd tier for SS is Heed my call, earthlink or blood siphon
even if i didnt use overwhelming the helmet comes out ahead by 200 dps or so
the sb*
wheat zealot
200 is big for a 2nd tier trait
Since it was at 400 with OP
Sb really isent that bad though, but on any fight with more than one target its definetely possible that the ss would outperform
crisp hollow
also heed my call pretty solid too
wheat zealot
Yup, very good for st and aoe
wheat zealot
Sb it is lul
Im not a huge fan either, but im a dps whore so gotta go with what sims highest
ebon garden
if the ss trait simmes just 100 under i would go with ss because i like it more
oh well
dusk holly
does anyone have a weakaura or tmw (or addon) that can distinguish between regular garrotes and empowered garrotes from stealth/subterfuge?
fresh ginkgo
dusk holly
I’m looking for a bar or icon but I also have tidyplates and only saw the option to track specific debuffs, not sure how it would show the difference empowered or regular garrote
lone hamlet
Stacking sharpened blades make it prock more oftener ?
royal lantern
nope, dmg gets higher
viscid crown
elaborate planning i believe
bleak star
seems tiny amount there for ST
and thats if u get burst damage off it
also the neck is fucking me
and im not grinding rep
so i dont get 370 chest drops
safe matrix
blindsides just isnt there, its counter productive most of the time. MP isnt great until we get more secondary stats, EP is the default choice
bleak star
with MP i do way more damage in raids somehow
safe matrix
plus in AoE with all the energy back from bleeds you basically get a constant 10% buff to damage
bleak star
EP i did no damage
safe matrix
thats because you aren't playing well with EP probably and one attempt isnt a good indicator
thats why sims do 5000 iterations
bleak star
fetid is okay
safe matrix
and takes the average
bleak star
fathoms is just op to fk
bleak star
yeah MP is totally passive
i mean with EP what u suppose dto do use 1 combo point? then get to 5 in 4 seconds?
or spam 3 combo point attacks to keep ther 10% buff?
still hare
For Single Target
safe matrix
it gets much better with higher haste
bleak star
i have 1600 haste in uldir
safe matrix
with your returns on energy
still hare
you should consider MA over Subterfuge since you don't have any SS traits
safe matrix
yep
bleak star
because fathoms does like 400k damage
safe matrix
everything scales with EP
bleak star
which is stupid its like 3 fetids in 1
MA is still worse for add phases
i can garrote 5 adds so its still worth
i havent played rogue until this exp but ass playstyle sure is dog shit
bleak star
TB?
still hare
You are siming for single target fights, very few bosses has an add phase that worth change to a aoe oriented base
sturdy python
Toxic bladr
bleak star
ohh yeah toxic blade is okay
i can sometimes get 3 5x combos off
which is nice
but its just dot cyling like a melee afflick lock but lock is more fun
does double dose scale with MA?
MP*
the current guides are dog shit
i need help badlyt
bleak star
yeah all them nothing is ez to understand
even watching method vids doesnt help at all
bleak star
well with EP do i keep the 10% buff rolling or use max combo hits?
dense quest
if you dont like assa playstyle why not play sub or outlaw
bleak star
i tried outlaw and like it but i cant do good dps with it
dusky tinsel
tbf the sin guides in the discord are pretty bare bones, easy to understand, but min-maxing its meh
inner pulsar
You are also 360 item level
bleak star
i have plenty good sub stuff but sub is hard for me
inner pulsar
Nothing feels good at that level
bleak star
im only 360 due to neck
dense quest
without haste it kinda feels bad
bleak star
if my neck was upgraded id be 373
inner pulsar
Wut
bleak star
yes the neck is only 330
and im not grinding rep on a 3rd alt
it upgrades next patch for free so fuck that
inner pulsar
No, the 355 head, and chest, and wrists, and boots, and ring
Oh and weapons
THats why you are 360
bleak star
the aza gear would go to 370 each
the weapons sure they need upgraded
but the neck is holding me back like 10 ilevels
strange python
Wut
inner pulsar
No, it won't. It goes up 5 ilvls with the last trait
strange python
That's not how that works at all.
bleak star
okay u tell me what id go to then
sturdy python
You use finishers as the guide says
You don't use low cp finishers to keep ep rolling
sturdy python
And you can pool to keep higher ep uptime, supposedly Sims say it doesn't mattsr
inner pulsar
Well, I don't have the inclination to math out what your ilvl would be, but how about you go read the final trait on your chest, and explain how it is going to go from 355 to 370
strange python
So, it's probably been talked about but that new Assassin Trait, looks a little juicy.
dusky tinsel
the FoK one?
strange python
The Vendetta one
dusky tinsel
ohhh yeah that too, honestly I think both look appealing
tropic pike
which addon is that?
cold meteor
AzeriteTooltip
tropic pike
cool
dense quest
lol your azerite pcs doesnt upgrade to 370 it only go from 355>360 unless you get drops from heroic or higher those dont go any higher than 360
vestal wren
@cold meteor at least its not sharpened
inner pulsar
Yeah, I think he got it
cold meteor
My actual shoulder is titan archive
eager haven
What addon is that? It tells you upgrade %?
inner pulsar
Pawn
eager haven
Fanceh. Ty
lunar nebula
why was it again that on herodmg SS is so far at the bottom?
inner pulsar
Right, I probably should have specified that
stable oxide
personal loot is the best system ever
shy escarp
it was bloodmallet and it was because it only simmed with MA on
stable oxide
3 rogues in the guild 😛 both rogues have 385+ daggers while im still usign dungeon daggers...
shy escarp
you need to use Subterfuge if you're using SS
hollow cave
spark pike
both
shy escarp
the effects don't stack, just refresh themselves. so it's better to have 2 different ones of your two best traits
stats*
drifting elbow
🤔
does it really only ''refresh'' when u use 2 separate haste enchant onto weapons
that sounds very illogical
buoyant coyote
drifting elbow
it only mentions it being ''diminished'' cuz u gain a lot of haste
drifting elbow
im not arguing against that
im questioning how that enchant works when using same
hollow stone
Nobody really knows cause nobody does it 🙃
hollow stone
Probably
sturdy python
Yeah the pin reads it as you can proc both but that makes the stat worthless. It could mean diminishing proc rate I suppose
I can try it when I get home
stray patrol
How do you guys play out your cd's on fetid on mythic if you're on small adds duty?
hollow stone
Ive also heard that 2 haste is just too much haste and when you hit that haste "breakpoint" crit is more valuable so thats why you use one of each
Regardless of the reason, you want 2 diff stat chants on weaps
By telling your guild to put you on the mass and not small adds @stray patrol
Sin has too much ramp
main blaze
Im at 1800 haste in uldir and haste is still top stat
dense quest
haste and mastery are top for me
strange python
does anyone know the proc rate of double dose?
main blaze
haha
I think its just the proc rate of poisons but you can look at your sim breakdown and see how often it hits for you and how much of your damage its supposed to be
strange python
I can? in the quicksim page?
echo geyser
Does cloak remove Rolling deceit on Zek voz?
jovial vault
No
hollow stone
No but it does prevent the dot dmg
During the cloak buff, of course
I recommend saving cloak for the possible shitty deceit during dance situations
9/10 rogues agree
strange python
6.7% - that doesn't seem like a lot?
hollow stone
W just 1 trait stacked? That seems pretty fricken good tbh
strange python
I'm losing to a rogue I've been raiding with that I always beat, and idk why. wondering if it's a skill issue or gear
main blaze
Thats about normal
sick cradle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
main blaze
What fight are you losing to?
hollow stone
Could be a combo of the two as well, link logs, these nerds go wild for logs
strange python
I beat him on Taloc, Zul-G'huun
lost for Mother-Zek
his weapons and trinkets are better than mine but idk if that makes that big a diff?
main blaze
It can
Does he use SS cause depending on the fights SS can be better
well depending on his usage of SS it can be better
strange python
he has 2x SS traits yeah. I want them but haven't been as lucky
hollow stone
Weaps, trinkets, traits, az ilvl are prob the biggest contributors to dps
slate jacinth
Does Prey on the Weak work on the adds on Fetid?
hollow stone
(Assuming its not rotato)
hollow stone
Cant stun em
main blaze
so probably no
hollow stone
Doesnt work
strange python
he's using 385/370 daggers from MOTHER, I'm using 370/370 from M10
Trinkets for him are: 390 Resonating Heart and 370 Galecaller vs my Fathoms and 370 Harlan
slate jacinth
I really feel like I am having DPS issues on the adds on mythic fetid, even tho I save vendetta and exsang for it
main blaze
Galecallers + SS is a nice combo
inland hornet
Overall Galecallers is real good
strange python
main blaze
mmhm
strange python
the logs from some fight from last night if someone is interested
main blaze
When I run SS traits I use galecallers when I run double dose I run my higher ilvl dooms wake
hollow stone
Sin should be on mutated mass, not small adds @slate jacinth and your guild needs to be switching after they kill small adds
You wont solo the mass
strange python
I haven't been that lucky - all I get from my caches and end dungeons are useless stuff like capes and gloves/belt :/
hollow stone
It just wont happen
main blaze
Yeah if you are on the small adds as ASsn your dps will be pretty bad
slate jacinth
Atm we have 3 groups, and im in the group on one of the small, and then I switch to big after.
hollow stone
Thats your problem
vague oracle
Is SS a pretty much mandatory trait?
inland hornet
Fourth week no mother dagger 😭
hollow stone
Sin ramp is too long for small add
main blaze
I'd try suggesting you get put on a large add but if you dont, there isnt much you can do to fix it
hollow stone
Or go sub
main blaze
yeah
hollow stone
If they are forcing you on small add, go sub
main blaze
Assn can easily be top damage on large add
slate jacinth
Ill speak to our RL
main blaze
but will be bottom tier for small add always
lapis chasm
guys, when to clock of shadow at Vectis M ?
hollow stone
Yea. Im miles ahead in dmg to the mass
inland hornet
How good is that throwing knive trait?
inland hornet
Uh the one that stacks to 30, don't remember the name atm
main blaze
I generally cloak in the intermission so I dont have to dodge the blood geysers as much
lapis chasm
hmm
hollow stone
2 lines of thought for cloak on vectis. Either during trans to soak shit positioned circles/overlapping circles or when the debuff is about to come off you
If cloak is up when vector switches off you, you dont get a stack
lapis chasm
when you got omega vector and when its about to go off, you cloack ?
hollow stone
^
lapis chasm
so you get a stack when vector goes off, not when you get it ?
hollow stone
I would use it w 4 sec remaining on vector. Mitigates dot dmg and stops a stack
Right. When it changes to the next person
All immunities work for that
Block, cloak, bubble, turtle
cobalt flame
Rogue in my guild is playing this opener , is he sucking massive dong or do i have outdated info how opener should be 
hollow stone
Where da vend at?
crisp hollow
where's vendetta? it seems like a standard TB without SS opener
crisp hollow
TB-Subterfuge, no SS
hollow stone
🤢
hollow stone
Your rogue needs to read some openers in our pins
inland hornet
"kinda"
hollow stone
Yea. Other than vend, seems fine if ma/tb
inland hornet
Don't you just mutilate once though ?
cobalt flame
i just love quality of life with 3cps from garrote
inland hornet
garrote>muti>rapture>vend
crisp hollow
i don't think he has MA, i think that's subterfuge without SS
hollow stone
Piiiiiins
crisp hollow
otherwise lack of vanish is big
hollow stone
True dat
hollow stone
Cds are usually good to use on opener
crisp hollow
azerite hella overrated, top parses use 3x archives sometimes
cobalt flame
I am currently running 1x archives , 1x SS , 1x Dagger in the back
crisp hollow
i don't think it matters more than simming top gear and treating it as another piece
hidden halo
Ive got 2x archive, and 1x SS but i could switch to 3x Archive, cant really tell whats best
cobalt flame
the 385 helm with dagger in the back + overwhelming power rly boosted my simdps
crisp hollow
unless ofc it changes your rotation**
desert vault
DitB sims very well, I don't run it though cause it just doesn't work as well in actual gameplay I feel
hidden halo
sims tell me 3x archive is better than 2x archive 1x ss
desert vault
like Vectis, how many times are you actually behind the adds
I'm using twist over ditb
crisp hollow
pretty much whole fight unless you position weird
you can stand right behind him and move when it's your turn to receive stacks
no reason to stick with group too tight
cobalt flame
yeah we put two groups with melee behind the boss so even on vectis we have 100% uptime to the back
strong cave
do we "snipe" low hp mobs that are about to die with garrote/rupture when energy starved to get a load of energy back (m+ mostly)
crisp hollow
yup
strong cave
in what way best?
crisp hollow
well if it's about to die just throw a low CP rupture on it
if you have my FoK luck and gain 1 CP per cast regardless of pull size it shouldn't be an issue to not overspend and put a 30s bleed on a mob that'll die in 3
but even if you do i don't think it's really a loss
strong cave
ok thanks @crisp hollow
crisp hollow
np
slate jacinth
My RL agreed to put me on big add rather than small, so I swapped with a BM hunter 😃
Pulling much better add DPS now.
crisp hollow
what changes when you're assigned small add? travel time?
sturdy python
Haven't done it but I'd imagine it lives long enough that bleeds matter more
slate jacinth
Going from 270k dps on small add to 1.1mil on big ^^
final stone
so im in that skward stage of my stat weights lol... i think 21% haste is a sweet spot atm then crit becomes more valuble but if i go lower than 21% and re check stat weights haste shoots back to the top
main blaze
@slate jacinth Nice
final stone
@slate jacinth if you end up on small add again and can play sub you would be good there if not theyt best keep you on big add lol
slate jacinth
Aye, thanks for the suggestion. Did a huge thing
hollow stone
Good rl for listening. Good job for showing him why he should listen lol
rocky notch
vendetta is like useless if you're on small add
rocky notch
sin on small add is just a nightmare
civic forge
PB or CT on high keys like 15+ regardless of ty or fort
i know in KR you run PB anyway but do people still take CT on tyrannical?
safe matrix
yeah
a dungeon is still like 80% trash
you really only take PB if you need the boss damage or the pulls are small
like KR or temple for the first/thirdboss
inner pulsar
I told my RL I should be on big add.....I’m still on small add womp womp
main blaze
but did you sim yo self?
safe matrix
are you running exsang or TB
inner pulsar
I'm running TB, its not terrible
What is terrible is trying to get over to the big add after
safe matrix
nah, TB is typically better for the small adds was just checking
inner pulsar
I think more damage is wasted by the fact that it is cancer trying to get across the room trying to get to mutated mass
inner pulsar
But you know, the Warlocks would throw a fit if they weren't on mass, and then another fit if they didn't have the DH for their buff on mass
plain thistle
yup, 3 locks + DH on big add here too
inner pulsar
And then the SP has to be on Mass, because he is even worse for small adds
primal gazelle
@cobalt flame why would you not want to play a spec that does double/triple the damage you normally would ?
tulip hatch
Should I go for 1x overwhelming power and 2x unstable flames or the other way around? (I really have no clue). Already got one of each going
tulip hatch
I checked HD, but I don't know if there is any point in having the same trait twice 🙃
safe matrix
traits stack
tulip hatch
Thank you!
drifting elbow
tol dagor first boss is quite annoying with orbs 
took a while to tackle that boss in +10
slate jacinth
When should I use Booncaller with exsang? Im currently on mythic fetid
slate jacinth
so basically just before exsang, got it
final kernel
Trait question: i play M+ with 385 ss, 370 scent of blood and 370 ss. I can replace 385 ss with 385 archive and 370 scent of blood with 370 archive, what should i go for?
tropic hull
SS is very good
calm grail
Should sim them against one another. Six target 40 sec patchwerk. Feelycraft says your first iteration though.
tropic hull
for 40 sec ss and scent will be better
but you can stack archive little bit before m+ start
slate jacinth
Do you sim M+ as: Patchwerk 6 bosses? I thought it was hectic add cleave O.o
calm grail
I do, yeah.
tropic hull
light movement 5 - 6 target
spice surge
@inner pulsar I am hackerman. I got a upgrade token from my pvp chest today and then capped conq for that DD helm, and when i upgraded the helm it didnt lose the traits. So now i have a 390 DD helm without having 31 or w/e
Big plays
tropic hull
game breaker
calm grail
You madman
tropic hull
this is not ethical
solar rose
@final kernel
don't replace the 385 ss with anything for M+.
If you don't see yourself getting scent of blood value(varies on the dungeon). Run Archive instead.
inner pulsar
@spice surge You broke the Matrix
slate jacinth
@spice surge Screenshot or it didnt happen!
final kernel
thank you all, i simmed as @calm grail told me and archive instead of scent sims little higher
spice surge
http://piclair.com/data/p5hga.jpg @slate jacinth
spice surge
If you're a hackerman like me
primal gazelle
weird, the 375 token specific says itll reduce the azerite piece to 370 instead of 375
wheat zealot
Big brain
primal gazelle
DD is good for pvp ?
final stone
@final kernel stay with ss
inner pulsar
Ok, soooooo I just figured out what you were saying @spice surge , haha
Ugh, I never do my Conquest points, I'm bad
sturdy python
I still don't get it lol
I don't have rating to get anything that high anyway thogh
wheat zealot
He had the piece at 370 w/ the 5 ilvl upgrade to make it 375. He upgraded it to 385 with a token and the traits stayed (the 5 ilvl upgrade stayed too) making it 390
How are people not getting this 
wheat zealot
Thats fair lmao
final stone
Real question is do I reroll gnome or grind the rep to be a velf! So I can be min/max
Or I'll just stay my nightelf lol
wheat zealot
Ew gnomes lol, only good for punting
final stone
100% true lol
I took a break the last little bit of legion how long is the grind for velf
inner pulsar
The VE grind is terrible, and its bullshit, and I am so mad over it
Its about to be halved in 8.1
final stone
Ok well solves that I'm not grinding that out Haha
wheat zealot
What rep is that? I havent done alliance ones
inner pulsar
Argussian Reach
inner pulsar
If you didn't play at the end of Legion, you have zero of it, and you get it by doing Argus WQs, of which there are not many
wheat zealot
Nelf is really good on trash
inner pulsar
AND follower rep tokens, but if your followers are shit (like mine because I quit in NH) that is useless
final stone
Yeah I like nelf vot m+ since you can meld
inner pulsar
I just don't understand why they won't take my $40 and give me VE
final stone
I mained Dk until bfa sp yeah that would be aids
inner pulsar
Like, do you not like money?!
wheat zealot
Blizz turning down money? Sounds fake
inner pulsar
Those words are not a sentence?
inner pulsar
But I will guess you meant are they cross faction, and no
If they would let me buy rep tokens with that useless Veiled Argenite that would be fine too
Hmmmm, 1250 of Azerite Currency for a Cache, 3250 for the specific item. What say you, rolling the dice?
strange python
Ofcs not
final stone
why does gnome rate so high on herodmg
inner pulsar
Hmmmmm, I don't know, since the cache is slot specific
sturdy python
Which kayne?
astral hill
What is the best traits combination for assa?
marsh bloom
how to do ghuun?
inner pulsar
Nope
sturdy python
Depedns verkir, you can look at herodamage for a decent idea
What do you mean shitty
wheat zealot
@inner pulsar where did you find that info abput the currency?
inner pulsar
Mmo Champion
wheat zealot
Tyty
candid phoenix
@astral hill 2 Double Dose 1 Archive is the best right now
inner pulsar
The odds aren't really that bad, assuming the chest cache chooses from the 6 chests that you can buy outright, and you want one trait that only appears on 1 of the pieces, the chances of getting that piece is 37.8%
Well, more accurately, it is 16.7% each time, but you get 2.6 caches for 1 specific piece
strange python
Did they say how much currency you get for specific keys
sturdy python
Guess it depends how big some of the traits are and how man options you can get randomly
inner pulsar
They have not
strange python
because if 10 grants the same as like 15
There is no reason to push further than 10
inner pulsar
Well that is the situation that exists now though right?
No reason to go beyond 10 other than personal satisfaction
inner pulsar
Ah yes
strange python
And you get more AP in weekly
olive shore
hey guys, 2ss and bllood rite or 1 twisted, 1 archive, 1 blood rite? first option sims a lot lower
sturdy python
Higher chance of wf I believe too past a 12
strange python
Dont think so
sturdy python
Guess I heard that wrong then
wheat zealot
I mean in a way there is.
Because more loot is dropping
Which equals more chances to wf
inner pulsar
Just as an aside, if there are 2 "equal" traits in the cache, the odds move to 65.2% of getting a "correct" trait
strange python
There are 6 possible pieces?
inner pulsar
Well, I am making an assumption there, based on the pictures posted on MMO champ
The one that shows the chest pieces available for purchase for druids
sturdy python
Probanly depends if it is only mythic drops that it can give
Which is probably true
strange python
I can see 6 chests to purchase
So if 2 have the same traits
Aren't your chances 33,(3)% ?
sturdy python
Still less than 3x the cost to buy the exact piece
inner pulsar
On each cache yes, but you get 2.6 caches for the same amount of currency as purchasing a specific piece
inner pulsar
So its like the question "If I roll a 6 sided die 6 times, what are the chances that 6 comes up at least once?"
And that math looks like 1 - (1 - 1/6) ^ 6
Or, to put it in a way that makes it easy to fill in the blanks "If I roll an x sided die y times, what are the chances I roll a 1 at least once?"
little burrow
what is the best sim options to simulate a M+ 4 target 40 sec?
inner pulsar
And then the formula is 1 - (1 - 1/x) ^ y
strange python
Hold on
opaque grotto
I’d probably start with setting it to 4 targets
And then change the duration to 40 seconds
pastel wasp
What? Wouldn’t you be buying the highest ilvl chest at the start and then the individual items later on as you acquire most azurite items?
strange python
6 possible chests
pastel wasp
Why so complicated?
inner pulsar
@pastel wasp Well first of all when you say chests do you mean caches or the item slot?
waxen arch
I need help on fucking fetid
pastel wasp
Caches
inner pulsar
@pastel wasp Ok well if 5 of the shoulders out of 6 possible shoulders have terrible traits, is that still the best course?
proper zealot
I wonder if the caches will operate like raid boss loot tables are supposed to, in which they'll "try" not to award a duplicate piece of gear. I doubt they would, but that would change the math if they did.
pastel wasp
@inner pulsar nope - but you’d think blizz learnt from their mistake now right
Given they are adding another outer ring
inner pulsar
@strange python That formula broken down is saying "If 1/6 (16.7%) is the chance of getting what you want, then 1-1/6 (83.3%) is the chance that you get what you don't want"
strange python
SO its 16,7 chance of getting what u want?
inner pulsar
@strange python So then you take that to the 2.6th power (because that is the number of times you could "roll" with a cache vs just buying the piece
16.7% is the chance on every cache opening of getting the trait you want, assuming you want 1 trait out of the 6 possible options
strange python
Yeah i know that
But what is the chance
Of getting the trait u want with 2 caches
inner pulsar
Ah, perfect
strange python
You can't just add the numbers right
inner pulsar
No
hollow stone
Will new traits and 8 weeks of rebalancing change the math tho, professor?
inner pulsar
What you are actually doing is figuring out what the chances are you get a "bad outcome, and subtracting that from 1
In the case of 2 caches it is 1 - ( 1 - 1/6) ^ 2 = 30.6%
https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1894684/what-is-the-chance-of-rolling-a-specific-number-after-a-certain-amount-of-rolls These guys do a better job explaining it, for those interested
@pastel wasp And btw, no, I have ZERO confidence they have learned anything
hollow stone
Probability is for nerds
Just wait for some ultra nerd to figure out optimization and do that
inner pulsar
Haha
inner pulsar
Had to change it to keep the fuzz off me
hollow stone
I dont actually know this guy, its a mystery
Overall tho, i think the change will be welcomed
Now we just pray for weaps n trinkets from cache
inner pulsar
I do too
inner pulsar
And for anyone wanting my TLDR OPINION, if there are 2 decent traits you wouldn't mind getting out of the 6, you should probably try the caches
strange python
I found out, that the chance of getting the trait u want, out of 6 possible pieces, with 2 caches, is 45,8(3)%
hollow stone
Did you account for the independent rolls?
strange python
but i am dumb 😃
inner pulsar
Tell me how
hollow stone
I mean, wait, i dont maths
strange python
ok wait i might actually fucked that up rofl
inner pulsar
Haha
strange python
There are 36 possible outcomes
strange python
or am I wrong
hollow stone
You should see other discords...... i thought we were bad, holy. But this good info and on topic enough, imo
strange python
With 2 rolls
inner pulsar
Still only 6 outcomes
hollow stone
@strange python but did you account for 2nd tier traits yet?
strange python
rofl
inner pulsar
Haha
Well, and I have been referring to them as traits, but in reality it is the pieces
hollow stone
I know. Just being goofy since im stuck at work still
inner pulsar
So yeah, I see what you are saying, you could get DD+SS, or DD+DD, or DD+TtK etc.
hollow stone
So you would have a 1/6 chance OR a 1/6 chance
hollow stone
Oh. If its an AND that drastically lowers the %
Im just gonna delete my comments. Im not making this easier. Sry team, carry on
strange python
Yeah its not AND
inner pulsar
Alright, carry on, if there are 36 possible outcomes in two rolls?
Where do you get to 44
strange python
There are 36 possible outcomes in 2 rolls
And there is a 44% chance that you will get AT LEAST ONE specific trait u want
Out of that 2 rolls
inner pulsar
How are you getting to 44%
strange python
Considering "1" is the trait u want
So you the divide the 11 positive outcomes by 25 negative outcomes
Or am I wrong
inner pulsar
No
heavy haven
guys when are we going toxic blade and when exsanguinate?
north terrace
No... you'd divide 36 by 11
inner pulsar
You divide 11 by ALL of the outcomes
hollow stone
11 by total possible outcomes
strange python
No Exno
inner pulsar
@heavy haven When they sim higher
inner pulsar
Which is the number I gave you way back
north terrace
Yeah i mistyped lol
delicate crater
I have 1 good trait, 1 Archive and 1 Meh trait. for Outlaw I have 2 BIS traits (all same ilvl). wondering if I should start playing Outlaw for Mythic prog because of AZ trait availability
hollow stone
This is why i main rogue. All the big brains do my work for me
You prob should. Sim yo self. Outlaw avg 2-3k more dps than sin on zek
gentle rapids
would you guys recommend PB or CT this week in AD?
strange python
I run PB
delicate crater
Sin and Outlaw sim the same single target for me. We will probably start on Zek tonight
strange python
😃
hollow stone
I was in the same boat. Play outlaw then
It will be better for prog
Then go sin when you have it on farm for funsies
delicate crater
I can get 200 more dps out of Sin if I slot Sharpened Blades but I can't ever get it to perform like it sims
waxen arch
olive shore
hey guys, 2 ss worth it in m+? seems to cap cps so hard 😦
inner pulsar
I play Sin on Zek because I can't handle RTB
delicate crater
You can't handle the truth!
inner pulsar
Nah dude, I am the truth.
proper zealot
Based on what you've demonstrated here this afternoon, you can handle RtB probability with no problems. It would be trivial for you. ; )
hollow stone
Rtb is fine drama quuuueeeeen
delicate crater
go for that sweet Snakeyes build and RTB every 5 globals...
inner pulsar
Oh no, I know that it all works out in the end, but I kept getting one buff rolls for add phases
severe bay
guys when do we use vanish when we are talented master assassin and no ss ?
proper zealot
Vendetta > Vanish > Toxic Blade.
severe bay
can you write the opener for it ?
frigid pilot
Do you guys find poison bomb being better in Mythic+'s over crimson?
severe bay
we dont go for 5 CP rupture at start then ok. thanks
inner pecan
You should TB before Vanish not after it
frigid pilot
@severe bay if u have the trait u can build 5 CP from it
proper zealot
The guide and the APL Vanish before it, though I'll be the first to admit I don't like it and it's not what I do.
inner pecan
the APL is wrong
severe bay
@frigid pilot I asked no shrouded suffocation so wont get 3 CPs from it
frigid pilot
Ah, yes didnt see the ss
proper zealot
Personally, I do this:
Garrote > Mutilate to 4+ > Rupture > Vendetta > Toxic Blade > Mutilate to 4+ > Vanish > Envenom.
That's with Master Assassin and Toxic Blade, without Shrouded Suffocation powers.
inner pecan
almost correct
inner pulsar
It is optimal to TB before Vanish, but only by 33 DPS, and that is PROBABLY stemming from the other suggestion to "TB on Cooldown"
frigid pilot
I prefer that as well
inner pecan
except don't Mutilate to 4CP on ur first Rupture
Just Garrote - Mutilate - Rupture - Vendetta
proper zealot
Eh, not super relevant, because I have to get pretty unlucky to not Crit that Mutilate to 4+ CP.
strange python
my b
frigid pilot
has anyone see any serious dps decrease from either
inner pecan
that's not the MA opener
proper zealot
@frigid pilot There won't be any serious difference in numbers, unless you muck it up entirely. It's your opener and it's a fraction of the overall fight. Stuff like Garrote and Rupture uptime is where you'll notice big differences.
vestal venture
Yo, one quick question: if im sitting at 2cp, TB coming off cooldown and im not energy capped, should i wait for the tb to come off rather than muti? I find myself very often capping CP:s with a muti crit
proper zealot
Your opening sequence of your first like ten GCDs isn't going to make or break you unless you mess it up completely.
inner pecan
you could say that about literally anything
the goal is to promote optimal play and go from there
proper zealot
Sure, but there seem to be different ideas as to what's optimal and what isn't, rather than being a single answer. Like the guide and the APL do different things.
shy mica
Is there any general consensus to how good SS is in m+ vs ilvl?
I got 340 pieces and 385 with p garbage traits
still feels running 2/3x SS is better than the 385
shy mica
err I think from top of my head scheming, rezan fury and some misc
rezan is p good st ofc
but SS shines when u can keep restealthing between packs
vestal venture
Anyone got answer for me? 2cp TB coming off CD do you want to wait (not energy capping) for it and cast it before muti in case muti would crit to 5cp? Find this happening too often
vestal venture
Aight yeah thought so. It just feels awful if i’m sitting on 2cp and tb is coming off cd and always the muti does crit
inner pulsar
@spice surge Get in here they are talking about pooling again!
proper zealot
Haha, I was just about to say that there are just as many people that say pooling Energy is irrelevant.
inner pecan
@shy mica I'd probably play 385 Scheming or Rezan over a 340 SS as long as you have 1 SS
But by all means test it for yourself, m+ is pretty hard to give hard conclusive answers on questions like that
vocal kindle
5 weeks of killing mother mythic and still no dagger seen, m+ doesn’t want to drop one either
Stuck with a 360 one for life
muted jacinth
think I have 6 kills on mother and haven't seen a ring or dagger
muted jacinth
I mean our raid is 380. dont really need gear at this point
muted jacinth
I just hit 378
muted jacinth
only way I got my 370 galecallers is from a ww that didnt need it
strange python
I got a 385 gc, too bad it’s stinky for m+
strange python
If you can stand still, sure
pastel wasp
no sanguine this week
strange python
I ran a lot of dungeons for those okay 😛
strange python
The fh ones? Same
strange python
I got lucky and got a 355 pvp piece with ss
So I’ll pretty much take any 370 shoulders with an okay outside ring
proper zealot
My Mythic+ set is awesome. One Archive, two Shrouded Suffocation, all three of which are 375. Further to that, the other powers are two Heed My Call and a Gutripper and then THREE Resounding Protections. 😄
lunar tangle
2ss and 1 archive or 1 ss and 2 archive for m+ ??
proper zealot
@pastel wasp Oh no, my one "bad" power. :p
solar rose
@lunar tangle 2ss and 1 archive
cloud spindle
Worth to TB before envemom if max CP already? or just envenom then TB after
proper zealot
TB before is fine.
pseudo oasis
!8.1
civic palm
_>
calm abyss
Say I want to keep both a M+/Islands and a SingleTarget+Adds set, I'm simming 5xPatchWerk1min for M+ and HecticAddCleave5min for 1TA for the stat weights. Is there a better methodology I could be using to sim for each?
sturdy python
I wouldnt do 5xpatch for that long if its for M
M+*
4-6 boss patchwerk over 40s WITHOUT lust or array should be ok for M+
Im not sure how well hectic add cleave works
calm abyss
srry meant to say 1 min
sturdy python
Then seems like its good as long as you have lsut off
calm abyss
lust off and 0 array?
hollow matrix
what build would give sin rogues highest dmg output for m Fetid small add burst windows? maybe exang with SS traits? i know its way better to be on the big add, not gonna happen for our raid - just looking for some pointers ❤
sturdy python
For M+, yes Hazy
I dont raid mythic pvploy but I know a few rogues have sad TB is best for small adds
As its up for each spawn I thnk
hollow matrix
makes sense thx
lunar tangle
@solar rose thank you ! your're great btw!
hollow stone
Nah. On fetid if your group HAS TO (and they really shouldnt) you should go exsang if youre on little adds. Tawney was thinking about vectis
@hollow matrix
solar rose
❤
sturdy python
Whichever it was I was wrong
thick jacinth
any tips and tricks for mythrax mythic?
pastel wasp
dont die
thick jacinth
standard
civic palm
Do not be targeted by the boss and do the mechanics.
What kinda "tips" are you looking for?
thick jacinth
idk first night of prog on it tonight
nimble tartan
Hope ur guild assigns ur cds properly
thick jacinth
particular side of the room I should favor anything honestly
civic palm
Yeah haha.
nimble tartan
Just dont orb people and do damage to add
civic palm
Yeah try to not fuck other people as much as possible.
thick jacinth
easy does it then
pastel wasp
how many melee u got in ur group
thick jacinth
think they're only running with 4
civic palm
Nice then.
nimble tartan
8 wtf
thick jacinth
just stand there and throw dick at him then?
nimble tartan
Lmaao
hard cove
any tips on what i can do to maximise dps on zek voz as assassin or am i best just switching to outlaw for that fight ?
hard cove
i play poison bomb there anyway
with enough haste you generally proc 1-2 bombs during the adds anyway
round harbor
Don't take early orbs
hard cove
so i just go full big dick up the bosses ass the whole fight ?
round harbor
Let the other mongos kill themselves
round harbor
Get one at like 4-5% boss hp with vendetta/vanish/pot
hard cove
true
round harbor
Ez 99
hard cove
never thought of that 😛
wont be 99% though coz im only 369
rerolled from guilds main tank
so do i wanna jsut keep my focus on the boss or switch onto the caster adds ?
purely tanking maxing dps here not whats best for prog coz its farm now xD
talking*
dot the add then back to boss or refresh boss and switch to add ?
rich rock
energy refund on rupture the quicker you can kill the add
round harbor
Yup
quartz ember
is exsanguinate the better talent now?
primal lance
Is fathoms better than taloc trinket?
strange python
Sim it
primal lance
How do I sim that when I don’t actually have the trinket?
strange python
Gear Compare on raidbots
terse kiln
Hey on the guide it says to garrote twice on my opener with shrouded suffocation, should i be doing this every time i have vanish up?
primal lance
I need premium raid bots to sim...?
terse kiln
@eager linden And since it generates 4 combo point do i garrote > finisher > garrote?
eager linden
It generates 3 CP
main mauve
is blindside worth it for heoric ghuun?
i dont know if i cansim just that fight, since were having trouble on last phase
eager linden
@terse kiln So just Vanish -> Garrote x2 -> Finisher
terse kiln
ok gotcha tyvm
eager linden
@main mauve There isnt really a "hard" enrage afaik, so if you're having troubles it might be due to people either dying or fucking up
I dont think its worth going into Blindside
main mauve
right on, just looking for a way i can help more, thank you
balmy perch
man raids are not giving me luck
4 rolls for a better weapon and 4 ap tokens
err actually 3 rolls i guess. H//M Mother and H zul
icy hare
what determines whether or not you take exsang single-target? other than shrouded suffocation? I see some top parses on fights using exsang but no ss traits
could it be a certain amount of haste?
balmy perch
for raid or M+?
icy hare
raid
sims point me to toxic blade, but im trying to understand what exsang is best for
or at what point it becomes better
vague patrol
for me exsang only simmed better with ss
so i dunno, could just be people who forgot to change or who have some other gear/trait setup that makes toxic blade worse or exsang better
fully possible to get a top parse without having totally optimized everything
balmy perch
i could see it being good for nuking down vectis and fetid adds
at some point i wounder if haste gives enough extra energy regen to make deeper stratagem better that vigor. i might have to sim that
icy hare
yeah atm im looking at ghuun top parse
he took internal bleeding, so maybe thats it
but yeah i think it could just be an unoptimized top parse
is either or the other better for different situations, like cleave?
vague patrol
both are basically single target abilities so idk
balmy perch
internal bleeding also doesnt do anything on P3
icy hare
yeah maybe he was padding on P1 though
shrug
glad to know at least im not missing something important though
vague patrol
for which fight? ghuun?
muted jacinth
mfw youre bored on wow so you make a full crit / haste gearset and add a bunch of gems to all pieces just to see what your dps would be like
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aWUEc4BcVfiXzAMryM8sS3
full mural
I got put on the small add and we had 6 melee so I barely got to hit stuff was not a fun fight
desert vault
you guys did it with 6 melee though?
balmy perch
wtb ss azerite head
marble hemlock
strange python
Sim it
loud kelp
aight
sturdy python
Yeah not surprising with the ilvls
eager linden
I mean your Boon is like 350
quiet spruce
are we gearing for ST damage or still MT damage for this week M+ (tyrannical)?
eager linden
Even at similar iLvl, Plumage is a very strong trinket
sturdy python
And double dose is stronger in St than ss so no surprise on chest either
eager linden
@quiet spruce Depends on your group, i'm using the same gear as Fort weeks, except going PB
torpid nova
Obvi sim is pure ST so I guess it'll differ
quiet spruce
okay, ty Tess
eager linden
If you have double SS you can go for it yes. You can alternate between Vendetta & Vanish/Exsang as cooldowns to burst down the adds
With SS you always take Subterfuge
wet yew
I wouldn't alternate tbh
eager linden
Well its still in progress
torpid nova
We're keeping 3 dps on the big blood. The adds stay up until he runs to it
wet yew
You probably use lust for second adds
eager linden
Yes thats what we did too
torpid nova
We have more melee than desired
so it's been a rough 2 nights
But only 2 nights of prog getting it 3rd set. Just need to clean it up
eager linden
Vendetta 1st / Pot + Vanish 2nd / Lust 3rd and Vendetta boss is what worked for me
wet yew
We have 5 Meele, how many do you have
balmy perch
what addon do you use that tells you its a upgarde
torpid nova
We got like 6-7
eager linden
Its Pawn but you're always better siming everytime you get a potential upgrade @balmy perch
torpid nova
makes for some tight quarters
desert vault
how are you doing groups on Fetid? like rogues on small or big only?
wet yew
Pawn but you need to get a string from simcraft or raidbots
torpid nova
Big add has a Frost DK, Ret, and Lock
desert vault
we have 5 melee as well, it sucks
wet yew
Rogue on big + WL
torpid nova
It just splits up the melee kinda nicely
My group has me,and a warrior on it
while other has DH and Rogue
eager linden
I just realised i never did Fetid since the nerf 🤔
torpid nova
I save cloak for Big add if I get circle so it doesn't cuck the other 5 melee
It's roll honestly
desert vault
what does cloak do for fetid? doesn't drop buff right?
eager linden
"CloS does NOT remove Malodorous Miasma but DOES work to prevent the application of Putrid Paroxysm if used 1-2 seconds before Miasma expires/would normally progress into Paroxysm."
torpid nova
^ science words
eager linden
proven frigate
So I’ve seen differing statements concerning refreshing an exsang’d rupture. Is it better to let it finish all the ticks or pandemic refresh?
marble hemlock
let it finish all ticks
eager linden
^
safe matrix
let it finish ticks as seli said
and whichever source that said to pandemic exsang'd bleeds 
desert vault
hmm some not a great idea to use shadowstep back into boss on fetid very often
mossy hazel
I don't know if I can fucking do this anymore... We're going to clear 120+ wipes on zek after tonight...
4 weeks..
I'm losing my shit
proven frigate
I always figured it was better to let the ticks fall off but think there was some stuff on mmo. Can’t remember where I read it but it sounded like a bad idea
warm zinc
hey guys pretty new to rogue i'm trying to main it next tier,https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QLn2qz6KkJ9YHwCZ#fight=30&type=damage-done this is 1 of my better logs, can any1 tell me what i'm doing wrong
rogue is Zulul
safe matrix
opener is completely wrong
decided to look at mother since its easiest
that third garrote overwrites a buffed one with a refular one
which is really bad
vendetta should be before TB since TB hits really hard
do the opener from the guide
you shouldnt refresh bleeds during TB either
since envenom is buffed in that window
you gotta plan around it and refresh so you dont have to refresh in TB
sometimes you dont pool before TB, so you cant fit enough envenom casts off
also since you have SS, subt, and aren't running exsang
you should be using vanish to cast buffed bleeds more
like for example right after the garrote from the opener falls off
warm zinc
sorry but what do you mean by pool, is that like bleeds? also does vanish only effect garrote?
safe matrix
with subterfuge,garrotes from stealth or 3 seconds after are increased by 80% and get shrouded suffocation applied to them
pooling is just making sure you're on higherish energy so you can cast abilities
safe matrix
cause if you go into something like TB with low energy you're hit the bottom of the energy meter too much and miss abilities at times
safe matrix
you can do g f g
where f is a finisher
either rupture if it needs a refresh or envenom if it doesnt
cause you have time to cast 3 abilities in the stealth window with subterfuge
warm zinc
is there an ideal time to refresh rupture?
or do i just have to plan with all my cds like TB
safe matrix
the ideal times are to refresh it in pandemic
and not in TB
and theres exsang, but since youre not running it im not talking about it
mossy hazel
refresh garrote at 5sec remaining, refresh rupture 5cp is 7sec
safe matrix
"-Pandemic this term relates to reapplying buffs/debuffs. When a debuff (like garrote) is refreshed, its remaining time (up to a cap of 30% max duration, so 18x0.3=5.4s for garrote) will be added to the new buff. Primarily used to give leeway to reapply bleeds, however can also be used to make bleeds last longer."
so refresh in the "pandemic" window
warm zinc
oh so
safe matrix
like a 5 point rupture
if theres one on the target
yo can refresh rupture up to 8 seconds early
and the remaining duration is added to the new one
warm zinc
oh ok cool
safe matrix
thats why double garrote is common, but only if there isnt a garrote on the target already
warm zinc
that makes things like going into vendetta seem much easier
safe matrix
if theres one on the target above 5.4s you dont need to double up
anyways I'm going to make myself a sandwich, read the pins and the guide in the pins it'll have some useful stuff
warm zinc
tyvm appreciate the help