yea that doesnt make sense, you would not want to be going that slow
#assassination
lost prawn
I just love sin's dot playstyle. It's like affliction lock with knives.
daring iron
And I’d still run ct
ripe nimbus
All of them but mother load and seige A pack with non elites that die in 2 seconds doesn't count
warm geode
@ripe nimbus u r doing +2?
daring iron
Lots of then
ionic charm
The funny thing is that CT sims lower than PB in a 6 target 40s sim
mossy hazel
I have no stake in this conversation, gonna go poop. Peace
warm geode
@ionic charm what?
ripe nimbus
I'm 1600 raider io but yah doin them 2s
daring iron
Just look up the top rogues
Watch any stream lol
It’s the talent to take in m+
For optimal aoe
ionic charm
@warm geode try it for yourself. Obviously CT is more consistent, but PB averages higher damage
warm geode
simming right now
ionic charm
And the sims assume all targets getting hit by PB which is less likely than all getting hit by Ct
But yeah, should sim higher with Pb
daring iron
Lol and that’s with pb hitting everything
ionic charm
Weird, it’s the opposite for me
daring iron
Which is never
lost prawn
So, silly question, where are you getting the CP for CT from? Garrotes give CP?
warm geode
@lost prawn with SS every garrote gives 3cp
lost prawn
OHHH
ionic charm
I doubt me running Tb changes the value of Pb very much
lost prawn
so thats with SS.
warm geode
from stealth+subterfuge
lost prawn
Yeah, i don't have any of those.
daring iron
You need one haha
lost prawn
Yeah, I guess I do.
daring iron
Lots of ways to get one
warm geode
fetid is the go to for sin
mossy hazel
Of you're running m+ you need at least 1 SS. Not required fur raiding
warm geode
can have 340 from m0
daring iron
The spec honestly feels clunky to me without it. Haven’t tried the master assassin build yet
That night smooth the opener of you don’t have ss
warm geode
@daring iron to rng, didnt like it
opaque grotto
I run MA with poison wire
warm geode
pls crit inside tb is the name of the build
opaque grotto
Makes it pretty consistent
ionic charm
MA is less clunky if you factor in how you don’t have to wait for any CDs to line up
daring iron
I like that though
inner pulsar
You mean for the 9 globals a fight during a raid encounter it felt more clunky?
opaque grotto
It’s legit a 10 dps loss vs double dose but way more consistent as far as vanish goes
warm geode
welcome to legion rogue without legs = tb build, give me 100% crit back
mossy hazel
@daring iron it does, I run ma tb in raid
lost prawn
Right now, as shitty as it is on multi target fights i'm g,g,g,fok(to 3+),rup, fok(3+), rup, etc while maintaining TB and envenom on focus target and vanishing to reapply g,g,g.
daring iron
I like lining up exang vanish vendetta and gc
lost prawn
I think thats because my traits are ass.
warm geode
gcb always line up with vendetta
opaque grotto
You just want SS and/or scent of blood
I’m sure you’ve got some of those somewhere
verbal nimbus
who members exsang at legion launch? 😩
daring iron
Lol it was insane
lost prawn
Jingleproof. I dinged 5 hours ago. I spent the time since i leveled doing arathi rares and timewalking to make sure I could get my uldir piece from the weekly.
warm geode
@opaque grotto the best is SS for bleed and DD for poison (raiding wise ) but u can simm what u have 😃
daring iron
400 percent bleed out
verbal nimbus
stacking vers and just bleeeding em
lost prawn
TYhe only azerite pieces I had before this were 285.
inner pulsar
@warm geode That is inaccurate information
lost prawn
er, 280
opaque grotto
Also why did you tag me and tell me this lol
inner pulsar
Sorry, gotta jet, hopefully someone else can tell you why this is wrong while I'm gone
warm geode
2 SS 385 / 2 DD 385 + 385 Archive isnt the better traits for bleed/poison ?@inner pulsar
for raid
mossy hazel
There's a lot of variables. It's not just the traits themselves
warm geode
assuming good stats with the rest
is better aim for the traits to go for the build then get the rest of the gear and pray for the traits
daring iron
Those sound like the ideal traits to me lol
mossy hazel
Probably are in most cases
lost prawn
Is there a point at which I want to get SS even if I drop X Ilvl?
lapis chasm
i got 2x SS 385
mossy hazel
30 is pretty harsh. Lol
lost prawn
Hence your g,g,g,ct rotation. You get a nice fat CT to drop on mobs and by the time CT and garrote is done they're dead.
daring iron
And sob is pretty close so I’d say that trait you could give for leeway
mossy hazel
But not too far off honestly
lost prawn
Right. I'm gonna be doing M0 and +2 IF i'm lucky for awhile until I bring up my gear and raider-io score. I know this. no sense in prepping for +10s yet
warm geode
assuming u wanna try to climb for higher keys
lost prawn
Thats the goal. Keys and raiding.
mossy hazel
I mean, there isn't much more than that. 😛
lost prawn
Oh hey, Synaptic spark is good for us? Huh.
mossy hazel
I don't actually know that one
lost prawn
Engineering helm
on herodamage it's third under shrouded suffocation and barrage of bombs
mossy hazel
Ahh, I think I heard of that one being pretty good really early on. Haven't heard anything about it since
lost prawn
which is also engineering helm.
hollow stone
Can the eng helm be upgraded to 385ilvl?
If not, then its gonna be poop
Good for starting up tho, for sure
And while dd is "for poisons" and ss is "for bleeds" this is kind of misleading info. Generally speaking, dd or other high simming st traits are for raiding and ss is for m+. Ss is really good for m+ and still decent in st
And it depends on your trait options, but dropping 30 ilvl to run ss in m+ is probably worth it
lost prawn
Coming from other classes, that's really interesting to me to see that big of a gain from a trait.
mossy hazel
It used to be even stronger 😄
lost prawn
ffs
I dunno, i'm just really enjoying watching the bleeds. I was in PVP doing Arathi Rares and I caught a warlock with a Vendetta'd Envenom and rupture and it was brutal to watch him run away.
You know, for the 5 seconds he lived.
marsh bloom
BG's must be fun lol
mortal merlin
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
spice surge
SS damage is fairly garbage in pvp because most of the multipliers for garrote is significantly lower
Garrote only does 80% dmg in pvp and subterfuge is only 40% instead of 80%
spice surge
Hence why i specificly only said damage ^^
daring iron
Ttk ss sob is my pvp set up, seems to work
topaz notch
if i run m+ and i.e the trash before zul, how should i properly aoe there?
if all the trash dies really fast, should i just spawm FoK?
mossy hazel
Pretty much
Unless you really want to respec for trash
Granted, if you're doing Mythic zul, you don't really want to play it as Sin anyway
daring iron
If you have ss, Garrote the three bigger targets, ruptures the boss, fok rupture the big dude with blade for hands then fok and envenom zip or the big guy
Zul or the big guy* sorry typing on my phone is hell
mossy hazel
Yea, trying to talk game stuff with autocorrect is a nightmare
daring iron
I like to sit zul in the opener because I know he’ll survive my vendetta
mossy hazel
Lol
topaz notch
and in m+ with lower packs just garrote with ss and if theres a heavier target amongst them, i can rupture, other than that just spam FoK?
mossy hazel
Always rupture anyway I'd say
daring iron
In m+ garrote three targets, use crimson tempest if speced, otherwise just fok and rupture
topaz notch
rupture on everything tho its low hp targets? im low geared so doing like m+ 2 xD
daring iron
Well if they won’t survive a full rupture you can do a little 2 point rupture or something like that
Just for the energy regeneration
mossy hazel
Yea, 2-3 point ruptures on non-elite packs are fine
daring iron
Ideally you want 5 bleeds ticking so you can fok every gcd
polar cape
I would just outlul for +2 imo
topaz notch
ah yeah true the energy regen, this is an alt project so im really not that good :p
mossy hazel
Then you can tunnel priority
daring iron
5 bleeds = 35 energy regen, fok is also 35
I tend to just rupture anything that will survive a rupture. And crimson tempest when it’s less than 2 seconds remaining
If you won’t be fighting a boss in the next two minutes you can vanish triple garrote again.
That’s pretty much it
Vendetta on CD if you won’t be fighting a boss.
dusky rose
How many ruptures do i want to have up before i spam ct on a 4+ pack
daring iron
It’s really rare that ct spam is the best option
It only really takes over at like 10 targets
Those pulls generally don’t live so long anyways, your frost mage or something will annihilate them before you can even set up usually. Just get a couple 2 cp ruptures out and start spamming it
dusky rose
Sorry im confused so are u supposed to use it as a finisher over envenom or no?
daring iron
yeah at like 10 targets it’s more efficient than envenom
It does like 2-3k initial damage to every target
But that’s only on really large pulls. On like a 4-8 target pull it’s better to just refresh crimson tempest when it’s less than 2 seconds remaining
And use your finishers on rupture
For example the first pull in shrine of the storms, I’d garrote three times, ct fok ct repeat till they’re dead
slim island
anyone know if wound poision work on blobs on fetid mythic ?
debuff goes on them
but not sure if it actually works
pastel vault
Ya I think it does reduce their healing
lethal jewel
Has shadowstep ever been on a gcd in the past?
Friend didnt have kick in his shadowstep focus target macro because he was afraid of them fake casting. But its instant with no gcd.
inner pulsar
@slim island It does reduce their healing, probably not by enough to make it worth it though. Never did the math
slim island
we have prob with killing em
inner pulsar
Then you will probably have trouble bursting Fetid down later, I would not consider it as a potential fix personally
If you have the correct people attacking the correct add every pull, and you aren't killing them, another week of gear is going to make a far bigger difference than wound poison
That being said, our issue was people not attacking the correct add
slim island
seems like we just roll with rng dps
cause we have people there
but sometimes we just get stuck on 5%
maybe people switch off
uneven pecan
is it worth it to use 3 garrotes back to back with subterfuge on trash in m+?
pseudo oasis
!exanguinate
uneven pecan
or should i just spend the combo on a rupture and garrote after
spice surge
Garrotes
spice surge
If you care about the damage to the other targets
daring iron
It applies to zul
Garrote zul, the chick and the big dude, can’t remember their names lol
uneven pecan
hexer and crusher :p
daring iron
Yes that haha
strange python
Play sub on zul
uneven pecan
ye ye
daring iron
He was*
uneven pecan
was just wondering if it was a general rule or not
inner pulsar
Garrote all the things. Rupture all the things
delicate crater
priority damage
final stone
@lucid bolt crawgs spam SS insta combo evis to zul
strong sundial
Method played Zul with 5 subs
inner pulsar
We used 6
calm grail
Has anyone killed Zul as sin yet? Realize there is literally no reason to I'm just curious if anybody winged it yet.
lucid bolt
only on heroic
inner pulsar
50% of damage done to Zul was Evis
calm grail
I assume they had it on farm and just wanted the parse for assassination.
Or they hate their guild.
🤔
delicate crater
the top 100 parses for Mythic Zul are all Frost mage/Sub rogues, with one FDK. lol
inner pulsar
The top rogue on our kill did 47k, the rest of us scrubs did 35K
ionic charm
Forgetting that one prot war that cheesed his way to 47k dps?
ocean marten
Omr is cute
nimble tartan
ty bb luv u
lucid bolt
is OMR some famous guild?
inner pulsar
Omr is the Rogue we need, not the rogue we deserve.
lucid bolt
hah good meme! 
nimble tartan
yes im in a very special guild..with a very special name....withthe hottest memes....
SLURP
inner pulsar
SHhhhh, no memes here
lucid bolt
is it prnounced me me or may may ?
nimble tartan
👅
inner pulsar
That question is best asked in OT
echo night
Quick questions, is 3x SS still BiS regardless of ilvl? Would a 340 with SS trumf a 370 with other traits excluding SoB?
This is for M+ only
spice surge
In general yes
echo night
So the 340 trait in general would be better than any 370 trait and stats?
Not including a 370 SS ofc
Cause im still trying to wrap my head around how the 30 ilvl difference isnt an increase :S
lucid bolt
damn just 6 ilvl higher than me but 1k dps more
hot flume
double archive
echo night
Well i dont have the 340 items with SS to sim it, cause getting 340 items instead of 370-385 just doesnt seem logic xD
ionic charm
Sim with gear compare then
lucid bolt
yeah gear compare is amazing
brisk blaze
You have double SS, haven't you?
echo night
O.o havnt thought about that :S
brisk blaze
Hey guys, what can you say about Garrote->Rupture->Garrote on opener? To stack Garrote's time?
Heared of that one time, wondering if it is a thing?
ionic charm
If you have SS traits, that’s the standard opener
brisk blaze
What if I have only one?
echo night
Isnt Garr-garr-rupt-garr the standard opener?
ionic charm
No
final stone
@echo night thats after vanish
ionic charm
Ss is better than archive at same level in m+. Without array, archive isn’t a standout
serene hinge
what about lower ilvl ss?
i'm running 3x ss with one at 370 and the other 2 at 345 and 340
but i have 370 and 385 archives sitting around
been trying to just look at what the top assa rogues are doing and i see half of them running around with 340 ss pieces too so not sure
lucid bolt
you should realy try using gear compare
ionic charm
Try simming the gear sets in 6 target patchwerk sim for 40s without raid buffs
That appears to be the standard wisdom
indigo mulch
is the SS traits still the best for sin in m+?
serene hinge
@indigo mulch seems like it yeah, barring significant ilvl differences
jade oak
Is bloodmallet accurate for us? I know personal sims are best, but is it a reasonable guideline for azerite traits?
strange python
can't vouch for bm myself, but I use herodamage since the folks here at RH update it so you know it's trustworthy
jade oak
good info to have. thankyou!
crude plinth
Hey all, I got those two trinkets (Galecaller's Boon and Lustrous Golden Plumage) and I was thinking about which one is better to use on opener ? I play with exsg. And Is this two are good in MM+ ?
wise star
@final stone its not, gar gar rup gar makes you waste your ss/subt buff
lucid bolt
i dont understand how to use herodamages site 😦
civic palm
What's the issue here?
languid goblet
375 dagger for offhand vs 370 dagger w/socket. Socket better?
lucid bolt
just use gear compare sim
u can tell it that it has a socket and what kind of gem u will put in it
languid goblet
Hmm, whhats the site? I dont wanto enhance it to try simming it with simc if i dont know if its better.
sturdy python
Yeah sim it but I'm willing to bet the socket is better
lucid bolt
sturdy python
languid goblet
Okay, what i was guessing aswell.
lucid bolt
click gear compare
buoyant ember
Gar > rup > gar is ss opener
sturdy python
I know what the guide sas, I'm saying the sim apl is different
buoyant ember
Gotcha
I used to use the APL opener. Using the guide opener I feel better about not wasting those combo points
However I believe the APL puts it that way because if you have badd are in G on energy region if your 2nd garrote happens just outside the subterfuge window, youve overwritten it
Rng* (speech to text 🙄)
safe relic
yo any assasination that is progressing mythrax mythic here ? :d
muted jacinth
already killed em. what's up?
safe relic
well im playing with MA,TB,and HD obviously
i open typical rotation
but on p2 that adds spawn should i use my cds on add -adds ?
for fof ?
muted jacinth
does your raid need the cds? I dont have my cds for 2nd set of adds so the raid comp makes up for it
fervent hearth
can ass rogues solo orb run?
muted jacinth
not that I'm aware of
fervent hearth
what a pity.
muted jacinth
only outlaw with blade rush
sturdy python
Outlaw cant
fervent hearth
first video you find when googling "ghuun orb rogue"
sturdy python
Maybe void elf ones
fervent hearth
is a sub rogue solo run guide
muted jacinth
I do it every week
sturdy python
Sub can
muted jacinth
as outlaw
sturdy python
What how
inner pecan
muted jacinth
orb -> sprint to gate -> blade rush -> hook is what I do
fervent hearth
we got an outlaw rogue in our raid who solos it, too
sturdy python
Hmm interesting
muted jacinth
how does sub solo it?
sturdy python
Double step and vanizh
civic palm
no
sturdy python
Maybe leechin would help but idk if it's worth it or not
Elusiveness would but that's a lot of energy
sturdy python
What corruption?
fervent hearth
yeah
muted jacinth
leeching is what I'm using for m ghuun. that last phase is killer
sturdy python
Yeah leeching would probably help some I suppose
stiff willow
Herodamage is showing toxic blades and mfd for m+, is that the go to now?
safe relic
@muted jacinth i dont think the raid need my cds btw...But where do u open ur second vend-vanish so they can have the best value and max dps ? adds or boss after adds
i mean if i open vendetta-vanish and open with FOF on adds my dps will explode
😛
cause of the ma
and 400% dmg increase on fof
muted jacinth
You could save vanish for boss + big add after transition. you should ideally use CDs on adds if its needed (ie our fire mages using combust on 1st set of adds so I'd save hb for second) if you wanna go for parses I'm not sure. I dont parse lord personally
safe relic
im not playing with subter
im using MA
i got x2 archive 385 x1 dagger in the back 385
got no ss trait
muted jacinth
I'm aware. having bleeds on both targets then starting the MA rotation just gives more damage for free.
devout moth
how do i shadowstep fetid stomjp?
strange python
You click shadowstep
muted jacinth
I wouldn't recommend clicking but yeah
safe relic
@devout moth if u have the wa for stomp then on 0.1 u Shadowstep and u are good to go or u can wait for stomp and when it throws u you fast shadowstep still safe
devout moth
okok ty bro
i just need to pay attention if i have debuff
so i don't shadowstep into other rogue and stuff like that
safe relic
how many melee on grp ?
muted jacinth
good thing about fetid is shadowstep puts you directly center but behind him on his hitbox. so you wont have to worry about warriors charging in if you have small debuff
safe relic
on fetid
u dont shadowstep behind boss
but in the middle of it
so if all melees are spread nicely u will be always safe
+1 to lano
btw lano
if i use my second vanish to spread bleeds with MA its completly waste mate 😄
muted jacinth
no think of this right
add is at 60%, target boss and start MA rotation on boss with bleeds still ticking on add
your bleed damage carries over the next time the add spawns
muted jacinth
Just refresh bleeds on the add then focus boss when it's under like 65%. at least then itll be one less melee on it. idk how many you run but we have 4
safe relic
fan of knives
pastel wasp
wait
safe relic
fok *
fervent hearth
fan of fury
safe relic
Kappa
muted jacinth
I'd look at logs and see how long your big adds are alive enough to use vendetta to do the MA fok combo on it + small adds. but if they're getting annihilated...
safe relic
well today was our first day on mythrax so
but i think we had good dps
i mean on p1
we skip third add and it doesnt cast even 1
sometimes didnt spawn too
muted jacinth
I use everything on the first big add so
yeah we usually dont get that one to cast
fervent hearth
last g'huun heroic question from me: when should i usually use CDs? during reorigination beam? for 1st bloodfeast add?
fervent hearth
roger that sir
safe relic
yes
3-5 secs before beam
u all go to clear ur debuffs
so u will have 1 big add
spread bleeds on him then switch boss
cds
to get ur max dps
if u play ss traits and subter spread 1 garrote on add
cause it dies a bit fast
fervent hearth
no ss traits.
fervent hearth
ruby idol
If your group has enough dmg to push to p3 without lust and big cds during beam it's much better to hold cds for p3 if killing the boss is your goal
Should try with and without and see how your group does
safe relic
always remember ur cds get the biggest value with bl
ruby idol
Then probably cds during beam
fervent hearth
okay okay now this is really my last question: prepot on g'huun, yes or no?
safe relic
i think ill check a replay on logs to see a rogue with no ss trait and MA if he opens his cds on big add and HB on first adds
ruby idol
P1 dmg diesnt matter. Save your gold
fervent hearth
haha that's what i told my raidlead 😂
safe relic
on heroic yes
fervent hearth
I think, i'll rather find myself a better raid, instead of using prolonged.
crude cradle
!traits
is SS bad in pve?
or i should say is there other traits i should be taking instead? cause pvp 1 SS is pretty much standard but idk if its that needed in pve
spice surge
viscid token
which dungeon do you guys take CT on?
muted jacinth
I take it on all but kr
opaque grotto
I don’t take CT either
It’s really not much of a loss anyways
Unless you pull FAT
smoky lantern
stupid question but m+ you want deadly + creeping posion?
supple hearth
creeping is pvp only
and isnt an actual poison
you want deadly and crippling. deadly being the only poison that really matters tbh
strange python
is icy veins ass rogue pve guide still up to date
lone junco
doubt it ever was.
ayy
@strange python SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ FAQ IN PINS-->
strange python
cool thanks
lone junco
iv is good to explain the tooltips
fervent hearth
it found its niche of usefulness.
lone junco
@fleet anchor i went through any iterations i could find with weaving mut and fok ant pw and vr at 4t20 4t40 6t20 6t40. all losses. from 0.5% to 4%. rip.
was easier than i expected to have the fok uptime with mut staggering. but pw appears to only be 13% crit, so not enough to move mountains i guess.
fleet anchor
elder gulch
Does it make sense marked for death sims higher than Vigor on m+?
polar cape
if you can get lots of reset yeah
placid elbow
When you're a 371 Rogue, get outdps'd by 380s on a guild run and they say that your DPS is too low even with 85-95 parses
RIP
trials are rough lol
strange python
Caring about parses on prog btw
placid elbow
oh nooo, lol. they're a 4/8M
but they took me on a heroic run to see how i would do
and i got destroyed by their 379s-383s in terms of DPS meters. as a 371 Rogue. They tell me my dps is too low. Basically, typical lol. Just thought it was interesting haha.
opaque cedar
G'day guys, how do you all prefer to sim yourself in raidbots for M+? 3 bosses 5 minutes?
primal gazelle
silly to trial over heroic since you can ignore mechanics and boss will still die bc high dps from everybody
primal gazelle
pulling numbers outta my ass, i would say only the semi-hardcore+ mythic raiders hate the system
i would consider only those that are at least 4/10m are "semi hardcore+", that adds up to about 9% of population based on wowprogress
the other 91% population probably loves it
primal gazelle
casuals love it bc they get "fair" chance at loot despite being shit players
primal gazelle
even if youre trialing out for a new guild
you still have a chance at loot under the current system
which is a fair concept for anybody under us top 100 imo
opaque cedar
Or can someone please point me where i can find the information, checked ravenholdt but the info wasnt there
safe matrix
4-5 boss 30-40 seconds for trash
harsh goblet
did they nerf shadowstepping to statue
safe matrix
its not gonna be fully accurate since you wont have all cds for every pull but it should be a fair enoug aprroximation
opaque cedar
Ahh kk i thought that may be the case
safe matrix
patchwerk 1 boss for bosses
and just sorta extrapolate data
m+ is really hard to sim cause its so dynamic
primal gazelle
primal gazelle
DD sims 200 dps higher than SS, but i use SS anyways bc it jsut feels weird not to
dusty surge
Is that garrote bug fixed?
primal gazelle
for 2-3 weeks now yes
muted jacinth
sucks that I would gain like 800 dps just having zuls shoulders but he never drops them :(
calm grail
Galecaller's boone without Exsang just pop that sucker on CD right?
opaque cedar
Has anyone tried exsang in arena and had success?
steep obsidian
umm well you also have to think about movement too with galecallers
it will make you hate tanks who randomly move bosses for no reason when you pop it
supple pagoda
should we be using crimson tempest on 1 target? its not mentioned in the guide. if not how many target sshould we be using crimson tempest
steep obsidian
newp
frosty violet
2+, and after Rupture
supple pagoda
thank you Deathshiver
tranquil wave
i just got galecallers. do you guys bind it to an ability or press it seperately? its best to use when we use our cds right?
empty elbow
I use it before exsang
For tick rate
And then with tb especially
To fit the two envenoms in
But line it up with something
Especially every vendetta
Since it’s 1min cd
Lines up well
limpid basin
So is the exsang build the go-to now, or is toxic blade still close?
empty elbow
Depends on your higher ilvl azerite
If you don’t have shrouded you prob shouldn’t run it
I’d suggest you sim
limpid basin
Fair enough
lunar tangle
onyx falcon
some pplz are running 1 archive 2 ss, most are still doig 3 ss
elfin fossil
I’m running one ss, one rupture, one matrix 🤷
tribal marlin
damn I also end up with a matrix recently because of changes in my setup
I just hate this shit it randomly break stealth pull shit break cc
I was so mad about it that I found a shit helm 340 to replace xD
sacred seal
guys, do u have any idea that I sim quite low?
Everyone with my ilvl has like 16,5 - 17k
marble hemlock
seems alright for that gear, idk
sacred seal
I suppose so, it feels wrong when ppl with +3 ilvl sims almost 1k more than me 😃
tribal marlin
maybe they just have better azerite or more socket
I sim almost 17k as sub 372 mostly because I have 7 socket and 385 dagger in the back 😄
quick ice
sockets are key
tribal marlin
Also race can make a different etc... so if you add all thoose things you can end up with 1k difference between 2 equal gear
ye I just farm m+ for theim
again and again until I get sockets
sacred seal
yea, I got no luck for sockets at all, just two items .... ty for your answers anyway guys
modern kindle
I'm stuck with 1xSS 2xScent for m+, please tell me scent's not that bad
junior aurora
modern kindle
hopefully it's not too far behind on 3xSS, since i haven't had that drop on anything apart from chest pieces xD
warm sable
Take archive one from raid and hope u gonna get one more ss for m+
amber quail
But some world top rogues use AotT...maybe them haven’t high SS?(checked last week)
modern kindle
it's either SS or archive for me atm
I have to leeway with the 2xScent, one of them could be a twist the knife or something allong those lines
sadly no DD
spiral escarp
lethal dust
Hello. Haven't played rogue in a while and I was wondering, is there anything I can read or look at regarding pooling, if it is recommended for assassination that is.
sacred seal
@spiral escarp Yes, I wanted to know how much dps loss is without pot and than I forgot to click back to Optimal raid buffs 😃 .... now its OK and I got 400 dps more
modern kindle
@lethal dust I think the main pooling thing for assassination is for toxic blade and vanish. if you're using toxic blade you'll ideally want 3-4 combo points and around 100 energy when toxic blade comes off cooldown, to gain the maximum amount of envenoms. For vanish is depends on the build, if SS I usually try to have 2 combo points and around 80 energy to go vanish -> garotte -> rupture -> garotte or something along those lines
Most pooling stuff comes naturally with experience
lethal dust
That is very helpful, thank you very much
abstract scaffold
!keys
stable pine
In a big pull 5-6 targets - do you only keep dots on 3 targets and spam enven or dots all?
edgy crystal
@modern kindle what is pooling mate
modern kindle
@edgy crystal saving up your energy
instead of spending it as soon as you have enough for an ability
edgy crystal
Ohh u mean i would want to save energy before using toxic blades so i could as much envenoms whilst toxic blades are active
solid nova
Yes
modern kindle
exactly
quiet valve
@stable pine 4-5 combo points ruptures on most targets, I like to garrote targets that don't have garrote on them when available, 4-5 combo points envenom on priority target if needed, FoK for combo points
edgy crystal
Neat thanks
edgy crystal
@modern kindle do u know anything about multi target rotation and such?
modern kindle
open with 3-4 garottes on various targets
use FoK for combo point generation if you have 3+ mobs
I personally have a bunch of Scent of blood traits cause that's what I'm stuck with, so I just focus on ruptures and garottes the entire fight
don't be afraid to vanish and re-garotte multiple targets if the fight is gonna last a while and you'll get it back fore the next boss fight
more dots -> more energy regen -> more abilities -> more dots basically
shy blaze
Is ss still bugged in the sense that any garrote applied that's not buffed by subterfuge to any target, ALL of your active garrotes lose the shrouded suffocation multiplier?
molten flicker
no
modern kindle
that's fixed afaik
stray root
Isn't 3x SS Bis for m+
modern kindle
jep
cold cypress
is night elf the best race to be on alliance for rogue because of shadomeld?
modern kindle
@vocal merlin seems alright, I sim around 11k no buffs on ST https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9rZYt51ugWdLisZLEjrz7z
traits make a BIG difference
modern kindle
also depends on whether you get reorigination array is on or not
ss isn't the best single target
vocal merlin
ok that makes me feel a little better, was just hard to believe buffs give me 3k dps
oh what should i aim for trait wise for single targewt
modern kindle
DD and a raid trait if ur in raid
vast forum
@cold cypress nelf is amazing for m+ and pretty good for raids
vocal merlin
ok thanks
vast forum
Shadowmeld restealthing for 3 garrotes is so big in m+
modern kindle
switching out my SS for a raid trait in raid gives me more than 500 dps
cold cypress
thanks for the response guys
vocal merlin
dang ok, i havent really put effort into this rogue but am liking it so far, been getting bored of my mage
hopefully can find a raid group before reset
nimble tartan
That's funny salchan I'm gearing my mage right now 🤤
vast forum
Enjoy that 1 extra sstrike every 2 mins
tribal marlin
it probably deal the same damage of 1 tic of the 3 extra garrote I'll get as sin xD
in raid and boss fight it also trigger SS (but not subterfuge damage)
drifting elbow
im under the impression that subterfuge does apply extra dmg with vanish tho 🤔
vestal wren
yes
modern viper
Hello and welcome I was wondering why ppl play internal bleeding on fetid? U can cc eggs or its just for fun
tribal marlin
well I think if you could actually stun the egg, Prey on the weak would have faaaaaar more value than internal bleeding 😄
modern kindle
but you're not using kidney shot on that fight anyways right? envenom is always better than KS is it not?
modern kindle
they don't stack
bleak storm
K
tribal marlin
@modern kindle well yes of course, but IF adds was stunable the +10% damage for all your raid worth more than 1 envenom. Example : Zek'Voz
modern kindle
oh 100%, I was just wondering whether there actually was a reason to care about that talent row on that fight. But I'm assuming not 😛
edgy crystal
@modern kindle thanks bro , after garotting do u also use multiple rupture and keep them up?
drifting elbow
what? that 10% applies to everyones dmg in party? 
modern kindle
during big pulls I constantly keep rupture up on as many targets as possible
crude plinth
Hey, I'm reasking my question cause I didn't get any answer ^^', I got those two trinkets Galecaller's Boon and Lustrous Golden Plumage, I was thinking about which one is better to use on opener ? I play with exsg. And is this two are good in MM+ ? Or did I need to get another one cause like Darkmoon Deck: Fathoms or Harlan's Loaded Dice ?
drifting elbow
GCB is very good
its only going to be bad to use when there is multiple movement affecting it
knotty dew
GCB is exceptional with exsanguinate
tribal marlin
@drifting elbow yes it does. There are quite some encounter it is worth having (Zek'Voz, non-meme'd zul if it exists).
drifting elbow
this is first time i've heard that thing scaling to everyone 
clear harbor
guys if i dont run SS in my raid setup, cuz no head with high ilvl, should i run MA instead of subter?
tribal marlin
maybe that's because you didn't heard about Rogue + Mage 2s few years ago 😄
back in MoP, it was also applying by Sap, mean a mage could litterally get insane bonus damage with Prey on the week + Tricks of the trade on a sapped + frozen target
crude plinth
so GCB is better to use in opener, but golden plumage giving 10%versa, is it worth to change it with something else, cause if I don't use it in opener, I use it after all burst
drifting elbow
well that time is different to current
so is that current version going to matter when it doesnt work on pve(raids)
or is it even better than other choices in pvp
nocturne gate
quick quastion for zek did the 10% dmg bonus(from Prey on the Weak) works for the nerubian shaddoweaver ?
drifting elbow
can they be stunned?
royal lantern
ofc it works, why should it not
nocturne gate
idk but good to know
tribal marlin
It got nerfed a lot in pvp situation, probably still worth to have unless you need ironthing for dmg reduction
royal lantern
in pvp you should take internal bleeding
tribal marlin
well actually it even got kinda buffed for pve content because before BfA it was only applied during the stun, now it is applied for 6sec regardles of the duration
drifting elbow
well as long target isnt immune right
tribal marlin
yes
if target is immune it does not apply
even if it is stunable but immune due to too many stun previously applied
ember coral
War sp and hunt can execute that’s all right ?
drifting elbow
well only MM hunter in class
steep obsidian
gutripper is good if you want something not class specific
i think method found it useful in killin ghuun
wheat zealot
Yeah x3 gutripper is the dream for ghuun
topaz notch
yeah cuz ghuun has the biggest gut
stark stag
Aside of Galecaller's Boon, what other trinkets i should start farming
for M+ & Raiding
marble hemlock
spyglass/harlans dice
stark stag
dice is the freehold one right ?
sturdy python
Yes
stark stag
Okay thanks !
@sturdy python @marble hemlock
mossy hazel
Ran about 4 FH this week, still no dice...
Did a 9 last night, key upgraded to a fh10, ran that too. Disappointing night
wheat zealot
Ive come to appreciate farming freehold, compared to a dungeon like shrine for example lol
Already got 375 dice on my rogue, but need some for my dh
mossy hazel
Yea, FH really isn't that bad
mossy hazel
Infested was not very nice on it though
Holy shit those little buggers took off and pulled everything a couple times... (we did not complete timer)
wheat zealot
So weird how critters can be infested lol
spice surge
They've stated that infested mobs are not random
So i think they have you made them infested to "spice up" the runs as you wont really be expecting it unless you look very closely (or played that dungeon previously that week)
wheat zealot
Yeah i like that it makes things more interesting having critters or passive mobs infested
dapper moat
Prototype why u hunt dice, its not even close to bis on hero? Am i missing something?
spice surge
You disregard the fact that you can only use 1 on-use trinket
proud tusk
GCB+Dice is lovely
spice surge
Meaning that either dice or spyglass+a on-use trinket is the bis
So dice is actually BiS even though its on like 8:th place
dapper moat
Better than phantoms?
spice surge
dependant on ilvl
spice surge
Sim and/or look at herodamage
fallow estuary
yo boys
got my galecallers after 1000x shrine keys
how do i allign galecallers/exan/ven/vanish?
I use the normal opener - then do i use exan on CD or do i wait 15 seconds for galecallers?
wheat zealot
Use on cd
spice surge
You dont except holding galecaller+vendetta for vanish+exsang at 2.20
fallow estuary
so everything on CD but and only hold one time during the fight to allign stuff @ 2minute mark
Okee
spice surge
Never hold exsang
ember coral
Any way to sim for ghuun mythic ?
drifting elbow
sometimes its just hard to love FH when shark boss crushes pugs tunneling or not kiting it to pools 
wise mortar
Question about envenom, is it worth it to overwrite it if you get mutilate crits, or should you pool and reapply it as it falls off as long as you don't energy cap?
visual token
During tb window use envenom. Outside of tb window I pool to maximize buff. Not sure if optimal or not
spice surge
It doesnt really matter if you pool or not. Pooling feels more efficient (atleast to me) but simc says it doesnt matter
So 🤷
wise mortar
Yeah, I like pooling, it makes the downtime feel useful and under control, since you are going to get it no matter what. I just wasn't sure if it was a dps loss to overwrite envenom outside of TB if mutilate decides to crit a lot
sturdy python
Clipping EP would be the only thing that matters in that regard
fringe wyvern
sup yall. For parsing on fetid heroic, is it better to lust on pull to burn him down to 50% faster, or lust at 50%?
sturdy python
But as he said, I guess simc shows it hardly matters
At 50
Unless you kill him so fast you don't get more CDs I guess but I doubt that's true
fringe wyvern
do you save your vandetta/vanish for 50%? I assume so, but I dunno if its a dps loss to hold them for lust
spice surge
Depends on your raid dps
If you would get another cast of vendetta of (ie the fight is longer than 2.30) then using on pull is better
But if the fight is like 1.20 then saving is better, as you only get one cast anyway
fringe wyvern
thats what I was wondering, like lust on pull, then save my next vandetta/vanish for 50%?
spice surge
As i said, depends on how long the fight is
fringe wyvern
yes, im assuming the fight would last longer than 2:30. Thanks.
sturdy python
Why would you use lust if that fight is going to last long enough for a second vendetta
You could have lust and vendetta inside the damage boost
fringe wyvern
Yea nevermind, I read that wrong lol. I gotcha
sturdy python
No I think I did actually
ember coral
Any way to sim ghuun mythic please ?
sturdy python
I think he means vendetta on pull, I assumed he meant lust like the original questipn
I missed your second question
I'm dumb lol
fringe wyvern
yea no worries I got a little confused there too ahahah.
sturdy python
Yeah lust at 50, save vendetta of you'll only get one cast. Use vendetta on pull if you'll get two
fringe wyvern
I am also dumb. Thanks for the help tho ahahah
Sorry 1 more question, do you just ignore the adds at 50%? or still kill one?
I've heard both
wise mortar
Depends on your groups dps
If you can kill the boss before he eats adds, then that's fine, if not kill at least one add
fringe wyvern
gotcha, thanks.
wise mortar
Harlem loaded dice is good, or try to get a better gale caller
reef mulch
whats normal when exsan comes off CD, reapply dots or just use it on the current ones? Or do i prepare by renewing dots just before it comes of CD?
spice surge
Prepare before it comes of cd
wise mortar
Ideally, you want to refresh them both right before it comes up, but you don't want to just cast them and overwrite them if they aren't pandemic. Worst case, have 20 seconds or more on rupture and over half of garrote duration when it comes off cd
reef mulch
great thanks!
hollow stone
Id like to say a prayer for all my na brethren
Our RNGzus who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, in Azeroth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our weekly chest; and give us our azerite pieces, as we give those when we do not need an azerite piece; and lead us not into another veiled crystal, but deliver us from evil. Amen.
mossy hazel
Amen
I have no chance in hell of anything good this week. I had like 3 great drops last tuesday from chest, emissary cache and raid in the same day
tribal marlin
I got my 385 dagger in the back, I think it's enough for a month
I also got a +45 ilvl upgrade recently ....... on a shitty 320 cloak from WQ ...
mossy hazel
You WANTED a ditb?
wheat zealot
Way better than a 385 ruinous bolt
mossy hazel
Alright well that's fair I guess
wheat zealot
Compared to what i have ditb headpiece would be a godsend lol
shy escarp
ditb is still really good on ST at least
mossy hazel
I mean it sims really well. I guess it would be great on like Taloc, maybe fetid?
wheat zealot
Its not really bad for any boss in raid
mossy hazel
Actually, where's "behind" on the adds on fetid. Lol
mossy hazel
Fair point
rose wagon
I'm getting way different stat weights when using gear from armory, and simc addon. Which one should I trust? (yes i made sure armory was updating my gear/gems/etc)
oh and like 1k dps between the two
molten flicker
if armory is same as simc addon
you shouldn't get any disparity
so I'd say it's unlikely to be true
mossy hazel
Which one's higher?
rose wagon
armory is higher
mossy hazel
Wait, simc addon as in the desktop program that you download?
molten flicker
you might have different settings though
rose wagon
no the in game addon that you copy gear out of
mossy hazel
Gotcha
rose wagon
Sure
simc addon copy/paste sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/25X4xSxiVxehjkwjdds28D
haughty flame
wut do u mean armoury sim
molten flicker
easy settings difference (=
mossy hazel
Kind of what I expected
It's also swapping your shoulders around looks like
Or not, that's just a thumbnail different apparently. Weird
simple meteor
what's the add-on that gives you a string with everything you have on your bag to import it on raidbots?
frozen karma
simulationcraft
molten flicker
simulationcraft
simple meteor
ty
frozen karma
just do /simc in game
grim blade
hey, for on use trinks (galecallers) do you always try to line them up with exsang?
sturdy python
Just use on CD, they'll line up just after 2 mins
Depends on traids quiet, can sim 4-6 target patchwerk over 40s for an idea
molten flicker
any haste on use you wanna line up with exsang as much as u can
sturdy python
If you have ss and sub exsang becomes good
molten flicker
just as galecaller
simple meteor
x3 ss still better then everything on mythic plus?
brisk frost
i personally use tb since it sims more, but i line up galecaller with max tb dmg, i guess it works same with exsang
fierce tinsel
ss is? shrouded smth ?
stark stag
Yep
wise mortar
A lot of people just run 1 these days I've noticed. It's not as op as it was
brisk frost
@fringe wyvern im bit late for ur comment, but on our raids we lust at 70%, since fetid kill only takes a little over than 1min and 10 secs. you want to pop ur bigs cd's at 50% . atleast thats how i've done my 99% parses
fierce tinsel
so next question is pb or ct ? 😃
for m+ again, haven't played with ct ever, always using pb
wise mortar
That's mostly preference. Single target always take pb. If you like the playstyle, CT isn't bad for m plus but is harder to use
It really needs to work with venomous wounds to be a good talent
fierce tinsel
ok thanks for the input
sturdy python
CT is good as it is
If aoe packs live long enough for it to tick it Beats pb
Only truethe higher you go
final stone
we did it bois finally gb!
what burning garbage did people get this week in their cachesw
stable oxide
thats pretty solid :p
strange python
I have lots of trinkets already lol
final stone
i finally got gbc to drop for me last night in my 11 so anything i get in my cache it wont bring me down haha
desert vault
Aww sad times, SS isn't simming as tops for me now 😦
tidal sedge
going to be really depressed when this 385 DitB sims higher than my last SS piece
i love the 3 garrotes nooo
desert vault
I just got a 385 ditb
ditb + ss + archive is only 100 dps lower so might rock SS still to save too much m+ swapping
and I know how to play that style
other than the opener there isn't much different from SS to no SS? Still vanish > garrote right?
mossy hazel
Depends, if you're using Subterfuge, yea. but MA is vanish>env spam
desert vault
Subterfuge still
mossy hazel
And if you dn't have SS, MA is worth simming to see if it comes up higher
desert vault
Good point, forgot about that checking it now
mossy hazel
Right now for me, my raid build is DD Archive x2, MA/TB
desert vault
MA/TB is identical to SUB/TB
desert vault
6 dps different
abstract raven
did we get some kinda ninja nerf? im simming 500 dps lower with the exact same gear
desert vault
that will be so weird going back to MA after all this time away!
mossy hazel
I actually enjoy MA
proud gust
that feeling when my new 385 shoulders sim worse than my 355 😦
spice surge
How do you get 4 envenoms during 3 seconds? 🤔
torn bear
stack da haste!!!!!
spice surge
Gcd doesnt scale with haste for rogues 🤷
final stone
@proud gust what trait?? on 385?
zenith trellis
its gotta be a REAL bad trait
cuz my DD 370s sim lower than my 385 SB
at least i can OS people in pvp 😃
desert vault
Man I forgot how easy MA is ... nothing to worry about really
vanish with 4+ CP and the rest is cake
lime quarry
so im somewhat new at rogue and i cant seem to find a clear answer on azerite traits. (normally resorting to bloodmallet) are we ALWAYS supposed to have at least one shrouded suff trait?
spice surge
Go to herodamage instead, but no
SS is good for m+ and multitarget situations, not so much ST
lime quarry
aight thanks!
desert vault
Even though MA/TB sims best, by 100ish DPS, Subt+SS might still be viable for a lot of Uldir fights cause of so many adds right? Like Vectis and stuff?
hollow stone
If its only 100 sim dps. Play what you play better/what your raid needs more. Vectis (imo) is a poor example since the adds spawn in line w tb's cd so you can tb every add
desert vault
true
desert vault
I might just stick with ss/subt so I don't have to swap as much for m+ 😃
saves money
hollow stone
Yea. For sure
And it keeps you sharper on that one rotato instead of splitting your focus between two.. sounds minor but whatever
desert vault
yeah, i just worry with ditb on adds could be more than once when you don't get the double stack too
its between ditb and twist on the 385 I got
hollow stone
Definitely a worry. If youre able to use sstep, itll put you right behind, which helps.. im sure you already know that
desert vault
yeah
hollow stone
Personally, i hate ditb, shit can happen to make you out of position so i would go twist. Again. Just pref. Prob sims lower
desert vault
well at least there is more to think about this patch that in the past 😃
yeah twist sims lower, but it assumes perfection with ditb which isn't always an option
hollow stone
Exactly
desert heart
MA?
desert vault
Master Assassin talent
desert heart
Ooohh
main blaze
upgrades today let me hit that 18k club
proud gust
@final stone 385 ss vs 355 archive. It's my only archive trait. 2ss/0 archive vs 1ss and 1 archive
nocturne gate
if i cant refresh my dots in the pandemic window i let them fall off right ?
ocean marten
is there a string for the azerite weight addon?
sturdy python
Just refresh them as soon as you can
Don't let them fall off unless it's exsang or sub/SS buffed
sturdy python
Yeah, they should line up
The first use after the opener is a bit off but you gold vendetta for the vanizh unless you would lose a cast later in the fight
celest ruin
but at start of fights im using garrote -> rupture -> garrote -> vendetta -> TB
so i cant use vanish yet because empowered garrote is still new
sturdy python
Right
celest ruin
am i doing it wrong?
strange python
If you don't have SS, you can refresh ur empowered garrote when its 5.4 sec left
sturdy python
From there on out you use together
celest ruin
oh so by the time vendetta is ready i have to hold it for a few sec until vanish is up?
i mean
sturdy python
Vendetta but yes
celest ruin
when vendetta is ready
sturdy python
And what michee said
celest ruin
thanks guys
proud gust
Is archive trait required in mythic+? I can do 2 ss or 1 ss/1 archive.
wheat zealot
Raid traits arent required anywhere besides raid
iron chasm
Would you rather take double Laser Matrix or one laser matrix and one ss?
fading harness
what do ya'll prefer to stack for raids or m+
iron chasm
laser is a bit better in sims for me but its more about the playstyle why i was thinking to get ss
fading harness
azerite traits wise
thin ingot
!snek
torn temple
Hello guys i was wondering if anyone has a macro for vendetta + a trinket in my case is a Lustrous Golden Plumage?
torn temple
let me try it
shrewd bough
slot 13 is the top trinket slot so keep that in mind
torn temple
worked, was jsut wondering about what that 13 was ty for tehe extra info
shrewd bough
np
acoustic tinsel
IS it worth dropping 1 archive of titans for a SS and a higher chest piece
strange python
sim
eager linden
For Raiding : No, unless you have another Uldir Trait
For M+ : Probably, sim it
acoustic tinsel
So for raiding SS is kinda garbage
eager linden
Its not garbage, but Uldir traits are mandatory, you need at least one to activate RA
acoustic tinsel
I see. back to M+. I could run double SS but Id have to switch a 385 chest for a 360. You think its worth it
eager linden
Yes it likely is worth, i'm still using 340 Shoulders with SS even though i have 370 ones
radiant carbon
so when u guys say to sim that situation, just compare the gear right?
cuz I'm in that same situation since i just got the azerite piece from this week's world boss
eager linden
For M+, SS seems to still be top tier, even if its a lower iLvl piece, from personnal experience
I mean people were doing 15+ keys with 3x 340 SS pieces
radiant carbon
oo
spice surge
Still waiting for that zandalari emissary to get 370 SS shoulderso
Its just volduun all the time
acoustic tinsel
I got a 385 sob chest from my emissary
Feels bad, a 385 ss shoulder would be perfect
spice surge
You mean your weekly
strange python
I'm confused. Bloodmallet tells me that [Tiny Electromental in a Jar] 380 is a clear upgrade to [Harlan's Loaded Dice] 370. Simulationcraft tells me it's a 60 dps loss.
spice surge
Go to herodamage instead of bloodmallet
There is a reason bloodmallet is no longer included in the pins
strange python
Herodamage weights harlan's more than tiny. Interesting.