there is no caps
#assassination
drifting elbow
tulip reef
I know there is no hard cap
but is there a soft cap of "stack haste to X Value to get an additional X hit in"
drifting elbow
there is no such thing
other stats that are on low amounts tends to be bit more valuable than other until its 500+ ratings (guessing)
tulip reef
ok thanks
unborn barn
@tulip reef Crit and Mastery are considered to be better for dungeon aoe situations
tulip reef
@unborn barn Thanks buddy that could explain it
drifting elbow
just using top gear sims and settings being short times and nonbuffed will tell u what is good
shy escarp
you can do something like 3-5 targets patchwerk for 40s unbuffed to get you an idea of a standard M+ trash pull
tacit wedge
Scent of blood unstable flames shoulder 
Thanks Talanki Expedition
tacit wedge
I was stuck for 2 weeks with 285 shoulders 
faint vale
Max duration x 0.3.
18*0.3=5.4
daring cape
ravenhold is out ?
solid nova
Yeah, working on it 😄
lost prawn
lol.
is there an alternate resource?
Im tryig to figure out when I should be weaving poisoned knife into my priority. Do I wait for 30 stacks?
lone junco
29
lost prawn
ok. cause I have one piece with sharpened blades.
lone junco
it stacks pretty quickly during melee hits, so by the time you prep to throw at 29 you might not waste too many stacks when you throw at 30
I have a simple WA that triggers at >=28
icon pops up. oh yeah. pew.
marsh bloom
Do you think it's worth the 160dps loss to play exsg over tb if I love playing exsg?
royal lantern
is master assassin working...? my crit is not higher when in stealth with it
marsh bloom
I don't think it actually changes it when you look in your character percentages
royal lantern
well, it did in legion, thats why im confused
lone junco
@marsh bloom its probably in the 0.1% range of difference in sim. that is well into the player error area. If you are good with exang, and like it, then you can make it work
and vulnerable phases work nicely with a vanish ss exang
marsh bloom
I don't know how to like optimally setup for my next Exsg
Cause you're gonna waste some time on the previous rupture/garrote if you refresh way too early for when exsg is back up
anyway to make less time wasted?
Is it right that gutripper is better than elemental whirl?
jaunty ginkgo
anyone have a weak aura for an empowered vs normal garrote?
tacit wedge
In M+, should I aim for 2 Scent of Blood 1 SS?
jaunty ginkgo
asd/wa
tacit wedge
wut
drifting elbow
sim with 40sec durations, choose amount of mobs u usually do per pack pulls
SoB itself isnt bad, scales pretty well on dps value with mob amounts
but if u got at least 2 SS from high ilvl azerites, they are usually better
tacit wedge
check if he can sim 20 targets 
drifting elbow
20 targets 
tacit wedge
Big pull or leave
drifting elbow
tacit wedge
It's mainly because I want to plan the azerite I wanna grab, I currently have a Twist the Knife/Retaliatory Fury head, SoB/Bloodrite Shoulder and Archive of the Titans/SS chest
drifting elbow
TTK is meh with big pulls, i have no idea how good reta fury actually is
seems to be 3 proc per min but buff seems low
tacit wedge
But I'll do the classical "sim yo ass" with different pieces
Reta fury sim higher than TTK 
bright path
Guys when you get 370 boxes from emissaries?when you have all exalted?
tacit wedge
When you have 368ilvl equiped
drifting elbow
well i got mine when i hit 366 🤷
nobody has clear idea what is that stupid system supposed to follow on
novel island
They go straight to scrap cause they are as always terrible. For me at least.
You're not missing out if that makes you feel better.
bright path
My ilvl which is 359 doesn’t make me feel better either...:(
tacit wedge
Mah warlock is 364ilvl, I still get 355 from WQ 🤷
novel island
Island expeditions?
paper bough
Which uldir helm do we want
tacit wedge
Azerite gear
paper bough
Mythrax ?
tacit wedge
🙄 No
marsh bloom
the emissaries?
opaque grotto
From emissaries.
marsh bloom
ah ok
tacit wedge
Emissaries indeed
marsh bloom
I'm getting 370s 😄
paper bough
Is vectis helm better than mythrax helm?
opaque grotto
What do your sims say?
marsh bloom
Vectis has Gutripper
and usually Archive is better pretty sure
you see archive allot more than laser matrix
so many people told me that you want atleast like 13% haste for M+
molten flicker
interesting
marsh bloom
I guess sim is telling me to use that much haste
hmm
People also told me that sims is wrong about using TB over Exsg is that true?
mystic cave
How do you guys usually sim for M+?
crimson marsh
mossy hazel
Woo! AotC Finally! Lol And a blue parse to boot
mossy hazel
I extended duration on garrote I would assume
Oh wait.. .It's right after exsang... That's weird
mystic cave
Well just got a new from WQ 370 with SoB so I know where that is going then xD
mossy hazel
SoB because you can rupture a bunch of targets and get the buff form each
lost prawn
So on large aoe pulls, am I just supposed to eb bottom damage or is there something i'm missing?
mossy hazel
You're missing something
marsh bloom
use CT
mossy hazel
Depends, raid or M+?
molten flicker
garrote and rupture all targets
lost prawn
timewaling in this case
marsh bloom
not all...
mossy hazel
As many as you can
molten flicker
what do you mean not all
molten flicker
why wouldn't you
molten flicker
pointless stacking ct?
lost prawn
Uh, i',m using pison bomb. should I be CT?
mossy hazel
CT is not that good
molten flicker
pretty sure a rupture > ct initial dmg
mossy hazel
Except on higher keys where the mobs actually live long enough for it to do something
lost prawn
Well, i JUST dinged, so right now i'm just trying to gear up and learn how to play
so it's all flexible.
I'm doing timewalking and on ST i'm destroying everything or on cleave fights but on "Tank grabs 4 pulls and everybody aoes" i'm reliably last.
mossy hazel
The general consensus on CT is it's fine when mobs are going to live long enough for it to tick out
marsh bloom
the initial damage for CT is also pretty good if 6+ is ther
mossy hazel
env
molten flicker
unless you vanish or start from stealth you'll be at a disadvantage
molten flicker
env gives u poison buff
lost prawn
Uh, again. I just dinged so I have whatecver traits I could scoungr. I don't have ss traits
marsh bloom
and if they last for 5 seconds after you CT
they'll take allot more damage than env would do
lost prawn
unless you mean swirling sands. lol
molten flicker
I still rather make sure all targets that will live for any more than a few seconds have both rupture and garrote on
over worrying about anything else
molten flicker
if it's a big and dangerous pull vanishing to put 3 more empowered garrotes up usually secures a very strong dps
in my experience
little frigate
hey guys, do you have any tips as how to improve my io score? I have a hard time finding groups 😦
molten flicker
well it will be if you spam it over other things
what you wanna compare is the overall dmg you do
molten flicker
no
if I play ct I do use it first after the 4 starting garrotes
but then I don't use it again until it's in pandemic
marsh bloom
mossy hazel
Basically what my browser looks like at work the morning after raid night
So right now...
marsh bloom
why only 2?
marsh bloom
you can get 3 empowered garrotes off
mossy hazel
Well with out sub, the first one isn't empowered either so it is actually 3. Lol
marsh bloom
can anyone help me with using exsg optimally
spring chasm
?
mossy hazel
I mean there is a LITTLE more to it, but that's the gist
Exsang snapshots so if you have trinkets or anything that's goingt o boost stats/damage, use that before exsang:: EDIT - WRONG, NERD!
summer ridge
So, pretty sure I know the answer. 355 Laser Matrix azerite piece, or 370 Shrouded Suff, would be second shroud. Only one Laster Matrix?
wheat zealot
You need at least one uldir trait in uldir
summer ridge
What I thought. I did sim, still don't trust sims entirely with azerite traits cause it all just seems so bloated.
mossy hazel
As far as I know, dagger in the back trait is the only one that isn't entirely accurate in Sims
And that's only becuase it assumes you're behind your target 100% of the time
Rest of them should be reilable
lost prawn
FoK awards one point based on what? I swear I see it giving me 3 sometimes
molten flicker
crits
marsh bloom
FoK on 4+?
lost prawn
Oh ffs. I've been capping on points then
molten flicker
kreiger, why don't you try reading your spells
vestal wren
yes exsang snapshots haste
spring chasm
but nothing else
[3:04 PM] Prototype958: Exsang snapshots so if you have trinkets or anything that's goingt o boost stats/damage, use that before exsang
thats what im referring to
mossy hazel
My mistake, knew it snapshots haste, though it was everything
I mean it does line up really well with Ven/Van, so ideally you're using those before exsang anyway
I have edited my previous comment just incase anyone references it later
marsh bloom
Exsanguinate doesn't actually snapshot does it?
only the bleeds..
or do the bleeds deal less damage through the entire thing if your haste is lower when you use exsg?
molten flicker
yes, they do less dmg because they tick fewer times
marsh bloom
does the entire bleed duration
deal less damage if you have less haste when you use Exsg
marsh bloom
I know
what you mean
but you aren't understanding me
the moment you use Exsg if you have lower haste
only in that one moment do the ticks deal less damage even if your haste goes back up
10 seconds in you use Exsg
spring chasm
ticks damage does not get affected
molten flicker
^
marsh bloom
thats not what i'm asking either
spring chasm
time inbetween ticks get affected
molten flicker
ticks never deal less dmg
marsh bloom
I know that
spring chasm
what is your question then
just because it ticks faster
doesnt mean the overall damage is the same
you get more ticks.
marsh bloom
Do you get more ticks if your haste is higher WHEN YOU USE EXSG
marsh bloom
so if my haste is 8% when i use exsg
and a split second after it is 15%
it will still get affected by that 8% for the entirety of the bleed?
mossy hazel
Yes, in that case if you use exsang with the lower haste, it will have the lower haste the entire duration of your bleeds. You want to make sure you have the higher haste BEFORE using exsang
spring chasm
thats what snapshotting means
marsh bloom
just weird that would get affected
mossy hazel
Why?
marsh bloom
Because Exsg itself isn't a bleed
It just increased the rate it bleeds by double
increaes
increases
molten flicker
and double of something fast is more than double of something slower
marsh bloom
I was saying
if you use EXsg at a higher haste
if it will make those bleeds tick faster or not
just based on what haste you used the Exsg at
not the haste you have when the bleeds are actaully ticking
so it's just weird that it exsg itself snapshots is weird
so that means it doesn't actually make it tick 100% faster?
jaunty ginkgo
is it a misplay to rupture during TB?
i.e. should I refresh rupture out of pandemic if it means getting 2 envenoms during tb?
mossy hazel
Ideally you should be planning your tbs so you don't have to rupture during, but it's technically ok to refresh during tb if you absolutely have to
jaunty ginkgo
thought as much, I guess it's a small increase if anything
jaunty ginkgo
yeah sure but not worth rupturing out of pandemic to do it?
mossy hazel
Depends really. How much would you be clipping? Could you pop a quick 2-3 cp rupture after TB? Are you going to completely drop rupture for a decent amount of time if you don't refresh?
marsh bloom
sims are fucked for exsg I think
cause it keeps on saying to garrote right after exsg lmao
jaunty ginkgo
maybe even hold tb for like 2-3 sec if I have to?
mossy hazel
Shouldn't have to really
I mean it happens sometimes, but it's better to just TB on CD
mossy hazel
That's really all Assassination is; planning ahead
marsh bloom
"elaborate planning"
applying rupture/garrote to my exsanguinated rupture/garrote will just fuck it right?
make the entire thing just tick normall?
mossy hazel
That's how I understood it
mossy hazel
Would be nice for some of the Gurus to comment on that. It's definitely odd
sturdy python
If that's true then snip the part of the apl that's messed up
mossy hazel
Nightly looks like 02
sturdy python
Post it so it can get fixed
marsh bloom
it was on 2 targets
mossy hazel
Was that questionable garrote on a different target then?
marsh bloom
nope
spice surge
Whats this talk about exsang being simmed wrong
marsh bloom
this one is multitarget
mossy hazel
Would make sense if the garrotes weren't on the exsang target
quartz fiber
is there a rough amt of haste/crit/agi when you get to the point that exsang will be better than tb?
spice surge
No, SS traits mostly, but then again, TB sims higher with better gear
Fairly sure exsang sims are correct on ST atleast
spice surge
compact void
Hey guys , is there a weak aura whick track when your garrote and rupture are under exsanguinate please ?
and garrote under subterfuge
mossy hazel
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
mossy hazel
Most of these track empowered garrote from sub. But I don't know about exsang
hollow stone
Just look at your xsang cd, if its less than 10 sec from 45 sec, your bleeds are xsang'd. Idk if theres a wa to track it specifically
mossy hazel
I'm using either dev or aefs and it does sub, but nothing with exsang.
hollow stone
Its how i do it w my goldfish memory 😄
compact void
xDD
mossy hazel
Could add a glow to the exsang cd that goes away around 10sec remaining right?
Err not 10 remaining
But what apple said
hollow stone
Youd want it to go away around 30 sec remaining in xsang since xsang bleeds are like 12 and 16 or w/e
Yea
mossy hazel
But yea, that would just be a general guide, not something exact
hollow stone
Yea. Its not ideal, but its something
mossy hazel
I don't know how to write WAs so I don't know if a more exact way of doing it. I'm sure with some fancy programming you could eventually achieve what you want
mossy hazel
Programatically I could do it, but no idea how to translate that into a WA. Lol
compact void
xD
mossy hazel
Although I guess the argument could be made that if it were that easy or even possible, that functionality would already be available. 😕
mossy hazel
I've never used tell me when, so I don't know how that would do it honestly
jolly lodge
create 2 WAs each with it's own 2nd trigger; 1st trigger is Spell on Cooldown; 2nd Trigger would be time left >= 30s (make that WA glow) and <=29s (without glow)
mossy hazel
Yes I was thinking the easiest way to do it would be additional triggers on garrote and rupture that glow on ability use while duration > 0
Just like the glow when garrote used from stealth, that shouldn't be that difficult if wa can check those 2 triggers at once.
I kind off want to try ding this because it shouldn't be that hard, but I don't want to waste my limited play time working on it. Lol
But it would also need to turn off glow if refreshed before duration ends
wary ice
Can someone explain to me how they pool for sin? - specifically in single target w/ vigor. I get the concept of pooling being to save energy to fit more globals into your burst windows, but ive been finding im having trouble maintaining a meaningful energy pool for Vendetta. I guess a more specific question would be "is there a certain energy number in single target im looking to hit before i mutliate when im pooling? and if not, how do I know when I'm good to use globals rather than pool outside of my burst windows?"
strange python
pool for vendetta?
mossy hazel
As far as I know, you really only need to pool before TB
old escarp
I think you're thinking too much about pooling. Pooling is more when you don't have dots to reapply and you're waiting for TB to come back off CD. Pre-TB is only time I would 'actively' pool
wary ice
I dont even think of TB as a cooldown I suck 😦
mossy hazel
I'll "pool" for a second or 2 if I know I'm going to be refreshing garrote in a sec
old escarp
If not using TB don't worry about pooling honestly. Just make sure you're getting a full exsang in vendetta.
wary ice
Nah i am using TB but i just throw it in on cd
mossy hazel
And that's only because I don't want to miss pandemic, not even for energy
wary ice
I figured we'd pool for vendetta because it has the big number on it
mossy hazel
Vendetta actually GIVES you energy
wary ice
I think its 60 over 3
floral frost
Why should I pool for TB?
strange python
To fit in 2-3 envenoms
old escarp
Vendetta is 20s duration. Pooling won't give you more than 3 globals. You're probably overthinking. Just view some top Warcraft logs and see what their downtime looks like
wary ice
I assume its for the higher poison chance
mossy hazel
So you can get 2 envenoms off in buff window
floral frost
How high should I pool resources, assuming I don't have vendetta then
old escarp
@floral frost pooling for TB allows you to fit an extra envenom into the TB buff duration
mossy hazel
There's no magic number for pooling
strange python
I usually pool around 100 energy right before TB comes up
old escarp
I can't pretty consistently get 3 wnvenoms off during TB when I play TB
strange python
Yeah of course
old escarp
I can get 3**
mossy hazel
With a good amount of haste and keeping your bleeds up you shouldn't have to pool very much at all
*actively pool
I should say
strange python
You have to if u want 3 envenoms in TB
wary ice
Is passively pooling just natural energy regen?
mossy hazel
I didn't even think you could get 3 without lust, I thought that was talked about here before
I guess I'm wrong there then
strange python
You can
mossy hazel
That's fair
old escarp
I rarely only get 2
mossy hazel
That's happened to me
I don't even always get 2 because I suck so...
I can talk all I want, execution is different. Lol
strange python
Thats why you pool before TB
old escarp
Depends on your gear level honestly. If you're 370+ with decent haste/crit should easily get 3
strange python
How much haste in raid?
mossy hazel
Probably 23-24ish?
old escarp
Stop saying your me bad. Just keep trying to improve. This is a good start
strange python
Well then you won't get 3 if you don't pool
old escarp
You're **
strange python
There is no way, unless you have dotted multiple targets
floral frost
371 with 14.5% haste :(
strange python
Like on zul but you should play Sub on zul 😃
old escarp
Honestly if bleeds are all 12+ sec. I get 3/4 CP. 100 energy. Then I TB
spice surge
You TB the millisecond its ready, regardless of what you have atm
strange python
yh
spice surge
You should try to not be at 0 energy when you do it, but if you dont have that, try to get it next time
mossy hazel
More TB windows > 3 env with less windows?
marsh bloom
I lose 800dps from going from 2 to 1 SS to try and get an SoB in lol
spice surge
Yesyesyes
strange python
@mossy hazel Bro
Listen
Think ahead
You see TB coming up in 6 seconds, save some energy
mossy hazel
I do
strange python
Apply your dots before
mossy hazel
I said I actively pool for tb, but I'm definitely not looking for a magic number of energy
floral frost
I guess I need double dose in raids and not SS, and an archive piece
old escarp
@floral frost are you playing exsang with SS?
floral frost
I asked yesterday if I should run exsang or TB in m+ and got no answer
I have 2 SS traits in m+
TB sims better ST for me
old escarp
First. Run a sim and compare talents. Generally with SS exsang is better than TB but it really depends on gear
mossy hazel
@strange python
Listen
I already said I pool for TB, but my execution is far from perfect.
floral frost
I am super low on haste I'm afraid :\
old escarp
For M+ stacking SS is always better. Unless you have massive aoe in grp then maybe full ST build is better
mossy hazel
I don't always tb at the right time, I don't always have the energy pooled, and sometimes I even have my dots almost ticking out during TB.
floral frost
TB outsims exsang for me in ST, hectic add cleave too
mossy hazel
I know what I SHOULD be doing, doesn't always happen though.
final stone
so difference between exsan and tb is 11dps lol
floral frost
800 dps difference roughly on my char using latest simc desktop edition
old escarp
Try running a no buff patchwerk sim. 40sec and 4-5 bosses
floral frost
you mean 400s?
simc doesn't let me put in less than 100
nm it took it when I tabbed
wise mortar
Why does blood mallet list shrouded suffocation so low?
floral frost
40s patchwerk TB: 16982, 4 Targets TB: 28058, 40s patchwerk exsang: 17443 40s 4 targets exsang 28399
1 SS
@old escarp thank you, made it a bit clearer
old escarp
No problem. For M+ generally more SS is better for aoe
floral frost
I know, I run 2 SS in AoE, got the 370 SS chest from emissary yesterday so it became my best chest now
so I use that in raids as well
wise mortar
I want to play sin more, but I don't want to feel gimped for not having SS. Every 370 piece I've gotten has good outlaw traits
mossy hazel
@wise mortar Pretty sure I've heard it rates it low because it's using the wrong talent set I think
Single target doesn't need SS
SS is much better for Aoe/M+, but ST is better with things like Double dose
wise mortar
Ah, that makes sense.
old escarp
Yes. You don't need SS for single target. Generally you'll run TB with no SS traits and sim very well
floral frost
Going from 370 Twist to 345 SS gave me an 800dps increase on ST in the 40s sim
Time to do full length
mossy hazel
Bet it's not an increase on ST on a normal length fight. Lol
floral frost
uh what's the default length in simc
rugged jetty
I sim higher with 2 385 ss st then 1 ss and 1 arch
old escarp
5min
mossy hazel
If that's what you sim higher with, then go with it, @rugged jetty
scenic apex
if you are not sure about the sims, there are dummies, and you can check it, 2 min of each build and here u go
rugged jetty
Yea I've started using it with exang
Anyone ankle to take a look at my mythic logs and see what I was doing wrong on zek/vec
old escarp
Vnix-zuljin?
wise mortar
I'm dumb, they have SS split on Blood mallet, showing it with and without Sub talent. I was looking at the wrong one
mossy hazel
Zek can be a rough fight for Sin, at least it is for me
rugged jetty
@old escarp yes
old escarp
You died?
mossy hazel
Cleave classes are going to stomp you once the warriors come out
rugged jetty
On both?
old escarp
On zek
mossy hazel
Vec is probably better than Zek, I haven't done vec on mythic yet
But there's a lot of downtime in Vec, so that's going to lower your numbers
naturally
rugged jetty
I just feel my dps starts dropping I'm there with the others and as fight goes on I just fall off idk what in doing wrong
old escarp
I personally haven't killed Zek. But I'm pulling 18-20k when final phase starts. I run CT for the little adds. Save vanish for when the casters spawn
1SS trait
The other sim rogue in your zek kill looks solid
Sin
mossy hazel
I was saving vanish as well and trying CT, but we're having more trouble phasing Zek than we are with killing the adds
So I just pump boss on opening, take my place in the interrupt rotation and use CD's basically on cooldown
old escarp
Same. It's mostly just me padding. I mostly focus ST dmg onto boss. I full bleed the caster adds but generally prio the boss. My guild has its of aoe though
rugged jetty
What about vec I didnt follow the add when he went down that could be why
old escarp
I leave my vanish and vendetta out of sync. No idea if good or bad to do so. I always have vanish for multiple SS garottes on the caster adds.
mossy hazel
I tried leaving mine out of sync that fight too and god damn it was weird
@rugged jetty Haven't done it on mythic, the add needs to move? I would assume you should be on the add 100% because it's imperitive to get them down before too many immune-Suppressions go out
old escarp
Vnix. Sorry this is hard on mobile. Honestly the sin rogue in your raid looks like he's doing well. Ask him? I'll try to take a look when on desktop
floral frost
TB seems to outsim exsang for me regardless, sad final number though, 13263 dps at 370.31 ;_;
old escarp
@rugged jetty on your recent vectis kill neverdsnce got 1 more TB and 16!! more envenoms than you. I'd say that's a serious problem
rugged jetty
Yea idk how either 16 is probably him being on add
Cause I go to the door side to soak
He goes to wall with add 😬
bright path
Which boss drops best dagger guys?
rugged jetty
Mother
old escarp
Mother
bright path
And for offhand?
floral frost
Why is it better than the Zul dagger?
floral frost
Wait, is it the mythrax one? I don't even remember
floral frost
Only difference?
floral frost
I saw the same damage on both and went "Only the stats are different, and crit/haste is better than vers/mast"
rugged jetty
Zul dagger would prob be more fit for sub
bright path
Zul’s dagger gives crit haste?
rugged jetty
Ni
floral frost
No?
bright path
So I need to replace the zul with another one mother?can be done?2 same daggers?
rugged jetty
Yea I wear 2 mothers
bright path
Aight ty!
floral frost
"Note: You do not want to overwrite a Nightstalker empowered Rupture or Garrote until it has expired."
uuuuh, what is Nightstalker?
OH, a talent I've never used
DELET THIS
thorn crater
there are no empowered ruptures anymore
wise mortar
Is there any real reason for pooling anymore?
mossy hazel
Oh dear god not this again
wise mortar
Sorry, just making the switch from sub to sin, and pretty new to rogue overall
mossy hazel
That's fine, we literally just had this discussion. Lol
hollow mica
Ay prototype can u link me ur armry?
hollow stone
Simple answer for pooling: as long as you dont waste cps or energy by overcapping, youre not losing dps
mossy hazel
Search "pool for tb" and read through that conversation from earlier, @wise mortar
@hollow mica Why... You going to laugh at me? Lol
wise mortar
Will do, thanks lol
hollow stone
Obviously specific situations can make that more complex but we cant break down every situation
hollow mica
No dude. I'm 363.. don't think I can laugh at anyone :p
hollow mica
Decently geared
mossy hazel
Thanks 😄
mossy hazel
Lol
hollow mica
I'm looking for 1 more ilvl so that I can get 370 emissary
Haha
I see u have a +10 dagger
mossy hazel
I do, I think it was from weekly chest?
inner pulsar
I'm going to use that from now on "I'm much better at talking about Rogue than I am actually playing Rogue"
hollow mica
I need to do a high key. Damn
inner pulsar
@hollow stone Please DM me with an in-depth summary of the pooling conversation so I don't have to scroll up
nimble tartan
Pooling in 2018 lmao
hollow stone
😉
inner pulsar
Thanks bro
mossy hazel
Lol, it was basically a copule guys saying pool 100-120 energy before TB so you can get 3 env in.
Then Eleem came in and said fuck that
nimble tartan
Ye fuck that tbh
We out here just pressing our buttons whenever we want the true chad way
spice surge
Sims doesnt say that it matters
hollow stone
It might be better if the stars align. But that aint gon happen
hollow stone
Yea
mossy hazel
That's what I always figured too
spice surge
Because the TB CD is so short any delay will likely equal to a missed cast
mossy hazel
I don't know who those guys were, but damn they spoke with authority. 😂
spice surge
^ Hes not even memeing
hollow stone
Youd have to have both dots up and they wouldnt drop during tb window, you need to pool before tb comes up because you want to tb on cd. So its basically impossible
In practice
And it feels bad
Yea, delaying tb is a big bad no no
mossy hazel
@nimble tartan @spice surge All seriousness, legit to TB at 5 OCCASIONALLY?
I defintely do that sometimes and I'm always ashamed, but it feels right. Lol
nimble tartan
Ye u do it sometimes
spice surge
If you have 5 cp and tb gets ready, better to waste 1 cp than to delay tb
mossy hazel
Phew
spice surge
and you get the envenom buffed aswell
cobalt gyro
so the guide literally means "use it on cd"
mossy hazel
No longer will I hang my head in shame!
nimble tartan
hollow stone
The "use on cd" assumes you planned ahead w your dots. Other than that, yea
And even then. Somebody posted apl w rupt during tb window
So idk
inner pulsar
It is one of those situations where you have to look at the only other alternative, which is to envenom, build 4 CP again, and then TB, which almost assures you have no energy
mossy hazel
And that's why I always thought it better!
inner pulsar
Alright, well, you can ignore that summary request @hollow stone , guess I got the jist of it
mossy hazel
I mean I' not going out of my way to get 5cp before hitting TB, but when you crit up to 5 when you were working up to TB it's just like "Well shit..."
There was also a really deep argument the other day that had my scratching my head... I feel like I know the answer to this, but again, they were speaking with SUCH authority it had me second guessing...
Garrote doesn't crit for extra cp, right??
inner pulsar
I mean, obviously the solution is to git gud, and have everything line up and never crit before TB, but barring that....
hollow stone
Garrote doesnt do "cast damage" so it cannot proc seal fate. If thats what you mean
Its 1cp or 3cp (if 1 or more ss traits)
mossy hazel
Yea, that's what I thought... They were POSITIVE they were going to be wasting crit cp from garrote at 4cp...
hollow stone
Lol. Goons
inner pulsar
Look at you, so knowledgeable
visual token
calm grail
Imagine if Garrote did upfront damage lol
mossy hazel
But what if it Crits @visual token !! Think of the CP! Won't someone PLEASE think of the CP
inner pulsar
I guess the ticket really is just to press buttons like Critizen and omr said
But don't know why I am so bad at it then.....
inner pulsar
Must be the problem
ripe nimbus
Did someone say my name
inner pulsar
Me
inner pulsar
That was the jist of the statement
ripe nimbus
Who wants to plan ahead anyway or worry about energy
My gear is actually so good mastery has become my best stat
Feels legion man
old escarp
35% crit 190% mastery the dream
mossy hazel
I actually haven't done a stat weight in a while... Assuming I'm still haste > all
ripe nimbus
Got no character prog left
I'm at 384 ilvl the next raid needs to hurry up and come out
inner pulsar
Mine are all close
floral frost
At my current haste levels I'm frequently in the unfortunate position that my dots will run out while TB comes off CD and I've pooled energy, do I prioritize rupture/garrote over envenoms during TB?
floral frost
@lucid bolt Link to gear? I'm simming 15.3 at 370 (SS/BI/TtK)
inner pulsar
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ufPubA6S9kzs3nnVdbx3Sv Everything is Darmul gear now, except Vers
lucid bolt
geez
can 7 ilvl make that diff between 370 and 377?
thats a 1k diff between u and jecaro thats crazy
charred oar
doh
mossy hazel
Like, in all seriousness
mossy hazel
Lol
inner pulsar
@charred oar Yeah, gonna need to take that shit down the street!
@lucid bolt Answer to the dps difference question, yes it can
lucid bolt
cool okay that makes me feel better
im wondering what are the pieces im wearing ucrrently that are really holding me back dps wise, can anybody give me advice?
i know my galecallers is ilvl 345
inner pulsar
Weaopns
mossy hazel
Your gc is low
inner pulsar
Trinket
lucid bolt
whats GC?
oh galecallers
duh
so my weapons and GC dang
ive been blowing rerolls on mother for weeeeeks
mossy hazel
Just 1 of the weapons really, the 355. It's a good weapon, just low
lucid bolt
ah yiss hehe
mossy hazel
obviously
lucid bolt
im excited for 8.1 im wondering if i should start saving up bonus rolls for it
inner pulsar
You can only have 5 max
floral frost
So uh, gonna ask again since I didn't get any answer last time
inner pulsar
So no
mossy hazel
You can only have so many at once
lucid bolt
ohhhh dang
floral frost
At my current haste levels I'm frequently in the unfortunate position that my dots will run out while TB comes off CD and I've pooled energy, do I prioritize rupture/garrote over envenoms during TB?
lucid bolt
i dont think so greatwhite
inner pulsar
Uptime over everything
lucid bolt
whats uptime?
mossy hazel
Bleeds always
floral frost
dot uptime
inner pulsar
DoT uptime
lucid bolt
ah so in otherwords u never want them to not be garroted/ruptured?
inner pulsar
Correct
mossy hazel
Corect
mossy hazel
Mechanics > rotation
You do more damage alive than dead, regardless of how tight your rotation is
lucid bolt
yeah true lol
where can i go to view my overall performance in raids?
its not raidbots
i think
verbal nimbus
warcraftlogs
mossy hazel
warcraftlogs if your guild logs
mossy hazel
I just got him last night. Lol
inner pulsar
Want a tip?
lucid bolt
sure
inner pulsar
Stop doing Ghuun, go do Mythic Taloc and Mother
mossy hazel
God damn, you're actually parsing better than I do already. Lol
lucid bolt
aw thank you
lost prawn
So, Sin is super fun.
lucid bolt
i have no say in guild decisions lol but yeah that makes ssense @inner pulsar
lost prawn
Like holy shit this is fun in timewalking.
mossy hazel
Mythic Taloc/MOTHER substantially easier than Heroic G'Huun
inner pulsar
At this point, if your orb runners have their jobs down, that gear jump from Mother and Taloc is going to do the trick
And yes they are easier
lucid bolt
ill suggest that ot the raid leader
we got ghuun pretty danr low though
ill be very dissapointed if we dont down him this week
inner pulsar
Plus it will re-energize people, get them Mythic Purps
mossy hazel
But Heroic G'huun SUBSTANTIALLY easier than mythic Zek.
lucid bolt
if i got a mythic weapon omg that would feel amazing
mossy hazel
Just an fyi. Lol
lucid bolt
lol im not gonna tgry thinking that far ahead
mossy hazel
We've got 75+ pulls on M Zek, did heroic g'huun in 18 in 1 night
Was nice to finally kill something again
inner pulsar
Have you done Vectis yet?
mossy hazel
Nope
inner pulsar
Ha
hahaha
I don't laugh at your progression, I laugh in a "You poor bastards" sense
mossy hazel
RL is convinced Zek is the easier of the 3.
clever niche
Vectis is a mad fight; really healer intensive
mossy hazel
Not sure how accurate that is
mossy hazel
That's fair
inner pulsar
And depending on how much melee you have, Fetid is just....terrible
inner pulsar
Yeah, you fucked
clever niche
Zek I get to flex CT and destroy the incoming adds which is quite fun
verbal nimbus
everyone does
mossy hazel
I don't even bother with warriors on Zek honestly. Rest of my group has the aoe to burn them
verbal nimbus
this entire xpac is melee heavy
inner pulsar
Anyone in your group that has a raid ready ranged on Fetid, should play it
lucid bolt
what do u guys think of the overall negative sentiment to this expansion? honestly im really enjoying it but i know a lot of people dont like it
mossy hazel
I think it's fun as shit
random gull
same
verbal nimbus
i unsubbed for the first time in 10 years 😦
clever niche
I remember legion being quite melee heavy too, Argus mythic punishes super hard if you had more than 6 mdps
mossy hazel
Looking forward to continuing the story
Not thrilled with some of the player agency issues in the story, but otherwise it's a good story, raid is fun
Gear is a little rough
Mythics are fun
lucid bolt
oh hey guys noob question the hallows eve mount? do i get a chance at it only once per day?
or can i just keep running it nonstop until it drops?
clever niche
Once per character over 110 per day
mossy hazel
This is the first exp ever I've been in first tier raiding, and my first time ever doing mythic progression
clever niche
My best friend lords over me he got it the first year he played and I’m still farming it...
clever niche
It’s a change of pace @mossy hazel? Weirdly different
mossy hazel
I've always wanted to hit mythic raiding but never had the guild/gear to get into it, I've always been behind
Last expansion my guild was still struggling with heroic progression by time legion ended
verbal nimbus
good to hear man, get yourself some Cutting Edge 😃
mossy hazel
Went looking for a legit raiding guild this time around, currently top horde guild on server, 3rd behind a couple ally
lucid bolt
i cant wait to race change to kul tiran
mossy hazel
Granted... We're still only 2/8... Apparently this server isn't exactly "cutting edge" material. LOl
verbal nimbus
I belief
clever niche
Cutting edge is achievable just requires work
mossy hazel
But I didn't have to pug AotC like I did in legion! So that was good. lOl
clever niche
And 6 sub rogues on zul 😂
lucid bolt
im the only rogue in my group i love it
mossy hazel
I've got 3 rogues total, 1 outlaw who's on leave for a while, 2 sin
I'm sure we'll probably all go sub if we ever get to Zul
clever niche
The difficulty jump from mythrax to ghuun is steep, healing and damage requirements can be tough
On heroic, can’t speak on mythic
verbal nimbus
mythrax is a loot piñata
lone hamlet
guys is it worth to stack sharpened blades if i can ?
clever niche
Not anymore
It received a heavy nerf; I would check hero damage for weights
Also always sim your character
lone hamlet
what should i aimi foor to increase the dps ?
i also have dead-eye and harlans
or i should stick with my curr trinkets?
clever niche
Have you done a top gear sim on raidbots? Need to check that 1st also got any logs?
verbal nimbus
depends what you're trying to do there Aemond, try different talent sets for patchwerk
clever niche
TB and exs are so close it’s almost a matter of preference imo
shadow plume
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lone hamlet
top gear can not compare simultaneously a lot of gear
but when i did it told me that my curr gear is the best
clever niche
I mean for trinkets with preferred talent build, raw sim results are well and good, but looking at logs would help me let you know how to improve
cunning blaze
For vectis mythic, should i run with exsang? i have 1 shrouded trait (toxic blade sims best for me ST)
strange python
Hmmm
dusty finch
Hey guys! Do you know how to solo Orbs on Temple of Sethralis?
modern smelt
Tb is more damage on vectis typically, but exsang is better add burst. Depends what your team needs.
dusty finch
I've seen some videos and some rogues are soloing it 😮
clever niche
@lone hamlet first step would be to get a piece that gives you reorigination array. Your haste crit balance seems okay, weapons are good too and so are trinkets
hollow stone
I believe the adds on m vect spawn every 25 sec, and tb is 24sec cd. You fill in the blanks 😃
lone hamlet
@clever niche i have head
clever niche
Perfect!
clever niche
Maybe
I got super lucky and have one 370 and 2 385
The extra agility is nothing to laugh at
I’m at 6 stacks of array which means I get a dumb amount of haste when I’m uldir
lone hamlet
actually
i have only 3 stacks
as i know there is no way to reach the max as most people have
thats really sad and stupid
spice surge
So why should you be as strong as everybody else that has put more time in?
You'll catch up eventually
clever niche
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kaU68B5ywx3fhBiD8pay8b this is my report take a look @lone hamlet there’s a link on the report to my logs
hollow stone
Yea. It sucks being behind. But like eleem said, they cap at 10 so youll catch up... eventually
clever niche
Can’t wait for 10 stacks
spice surge
And also, 300 secondary* stat wont make your dps go up by 2k
hollow stone
It would be super lame to "force" mythic raiders to do lfr just for extra array stacks.
nimble tartan
300 mainstat is so hot
clever niche
300 mainstat will be approximately 600 dps @spice surge
nimble tartan
And secondary is even HOTTER
spice surge
Yeah so you're still way below the people simming 18k
lone hamlet
so archive is not about secondaries ?
slate agate
Do you guys think Scent of Blood can be good on Vectis mythic (2 targets). Or should I stick with anduin's dedication ?
modern hare
Anyone use SoB for M+? my choices are SoB 385 vs SS 370 (I have SS @ 370 on a 2nd piece)
shy escarp
SoB is the 2nd best M+ trait behind SS
and I think 1 is worth more than a third SS trait, though it's pretty close
clever niche
Scent of blood works great when you get a few ruptures out, less ruptures less value
SS is really good one the opening though especially since the bug fix you can have 4 garrotes up on pull
modern hare
I am assuming it may be better to run SoB on Fort weeks since trash will stay alive longer.
clever niche
It’s one of those things where you need to get a feel for what you feel works best and go with that, sims can only help so much in those chaotic situations
mossy hazel
If you ran the SoB you'd have 1 or 2 SS?
modern hare
1 ss
clever niche
I’d say 2 SS > 1 SS + SoB personally
clever niche
Haha
modern hare
I know it also depends on how the tank pulls, sometimes with chains pulls it's more difficult to re-stealth
mossy hazel
Yea, I guess along those lines then the SoB would be the safer bet if you're Pugging
sturdy python
Not perfect for all situations but should give an idea
Pretty sure there's some custom apl for m+ too but idk where it's at
mossy hazel
I will say, someone here earlier found a possible bug with SS/Sub/Exsang apl with multitarget fights
sturdy python
Yeah, ifs still waiting on a response in TC research
mossy hazel
Was using garrote right after exsang in almost all cases
Yea, don't know if it was his setup or something or a legit bug
Just something to keep in mind
calm cedar
When opening, when I cast garrote and mutilate I have 3, 4, or 5 combo points based on whether or not I crit. When I only have 3 or 4, should I cast another mutilate before rupturing?
modern hare
I'll probably test them in person to get a feel since they are different pieces (no respec cost)
sturdy python
3 yes, 4 no
calm cedar
Okay. That's what I have been doing. Just wo during if it was the right way forward or if i needed to have 5
Thanks!
mossy hazel
99% of the time you want your finishers with 4-5cp
calm cedar
Wondering*
sturdy python
Rereading that apl issue it's opening on target 1 then spreading two more bleeds then pandemicing rupture on target 1, exsanging, then vanish garrote
So it's only missing the garrote in exsang, probably not massive
desert heart
What i do is If 3cp go for another mutilate, if 4 go rup, dunno if correct tho
sturdy python
That's right
mossy hazel
When I looked at it (albeit briefly) it looked like it was actually overwriting an exsang garrote on the same target, no?
clever niche
You should never reapply over an exsang empowered bleed, the energy regen alone would cause a loss
mossy hazel
Yea, no. We're talking about what appears to be a possible bug in the apl
sturdy python
Yeah looking a the single Target one actually you're right
Garrote lasts how long?
clever niche
18s or 23s
spice surge
18s (24 pandemic)
sturdy python
So yeah the apl effectively wastes 16s of a shrouded garrote
Unless I'm reading it wrong
Well probably more like 12 given haste and the exsang initial increase
warm geode
on mythrax mythic, the better way to put most dps at start is open normaly on boss, then when add spawn vanish ( 1 garrote add, 2 boss) refresh rupture boss, and swap add?
ep will still buff boss damage
marsh bloom
yea it does @sturdy python
I think anytime you have more than 1 target
it fucks up
night prawn
Hi i have a qestion but i didnt find the answer: "Should i use CT on 2 target in M+ or 3 target minimum ?"
perfect exemple the second boss of FH
mossy hazel
Genuinely don't have an answer for that one, Sorry. I never use CT
marsh bloom
pretty sure you keep it up on 2+
night prawn
so on two target i just turn on garrot and rupture 100% on both
night prawn
hmm
warm geode
or full ST one if lazy or ST one and try put dots on another for energy regen
night prawn
when i'm doing 16+key i need the more damage i can to time i dont care about focus one all ability can be dodge
night prawn
thank you @strange python
lost prawn
@mossy hazel what do you use? Just keep Rupture and Garrote up on non-focus targets?
mossy hazel
I just stick with Poison Bomb
lost prawn
Yeah, i'm using that now. I THINK I ave the recommended build from Ravenholdt but it's down now.
mossy hazel
And TB, Garrote/Rupture TB pirority
FOK spam at 4+
Env once rupture on like 3-4 targets
lost prawn
Yeah, ok. Most of our combo points go to envenom, right? Once Rupture/Garrote is managed on targets
ripe nimbus
CT on 3+ targets note that CT on 3 targets is almost neutral to just keeping rup/garrote on 3 targets. So depending on dungeon and how u are pulling. It's better to just stick with PB. If ur doing low key and mass pulling entire rooms then pick CT
mossy hazel
Yea
But if you're doing low keys and going 1 pack at a time, don't go CT. Lol
It's all situational really
lost prawn
Does garrote snapshot? If I open with an empowered and never let it fall off does it stay empowered ticks or drop down to non-empowered?
ripe nimbus
CT doesn't start to shine till 6+ mobs they also have to live for a decent enough time
mossy hazel
And I'll admit feelcraft here, I just don't like CT
strange python
@lost prawn thats not snapshotting
lucid bolt
what is CT?
mossy hazel
Crimson Tempest
lucid bolt
oh i never use that
ripe nimbus
Crimson (wet noodle) tempest
lost prawn
@strange python sorry. You guys know what I mean tho.
ripe nimbus
I mean poison bomb is also a wet noodle but at least we don't have to spend CP on it
lucid bolt
when that bomb goes off u know its GG
mossy hazel
@lost prawn As soon as you refresh an empowered garrote, it's no longer empowered
So it's actually better to let it drop completely before refreshing
warm geode
lost prawn
Gotcha. When should I vanish to reapply, when i'm about to pop Vendetta again? When first falls off? After all my dots are on?
lucid bolt
i would say when first is about to fall off
so u open vendetta do all our shit when first garotte is gonna wear off vanish and reapply
mossy hazel
Not sure what your build is, but you should be lining up vanish and vendetta usually
ripe nimbus
When first falls of vanish garrote garrote spend combo points on what ever needs to be done rup or enevenom
mossy hazel
After your opener
ionic charm
@warm geode weird, obviously your dice is better than my 375 with no socket, but it sims like 1.5% behind deck
ripe nimbus
Then just use vanish on cooldown
lucid bolt
yeah after opener u should try to pair the 2 i believe
warm geode
@ionic charm and for 2+ targets dice get higher value
ripe nimbus
Or depending on fight to put empowered garrote on 2+ targets
warm geode
hard work and persuasion, a friend dh droped and i need to beg 😃
lost prawn
I'm supposed to open with vendetta? I thought I did Garrote-> mutilate to 4 -> Rupture -> Toxic Blade -> Mutilate -> Vendetta. Which means I'd vanish after that last toxic/mutilate combo and re-apply garrotes and then vendetta?
ionic charm
@mossy hazel I have 390 gcb and 375 dice but I don’t use the dice 😛
mossy hazel
Jesus...
warm geode
@lost prawn vndetta>vanish>garrote>garrote>rupture>exsg
lost prawn
I'm running TB atm.
verbal nimbus
xD
warm geode
tb i cant talk
mossy hazel
What Build/traits are you running @lost prawn
warm geode
@ionic charm i trade this gcb 😛
mossy hazel
Your opener is very heavily dependant on specific talents and whether you have any SS traits
lost prawn
@mossy hazel I dinged last night so I'm kind of a mess right now.
ionic charm
@warm geode hmmm I’ll have to say no
mossy hazel
@lost prawn Garrote
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Rupture
Vendetta
Mutilate
Toxic Blade
Mutilate if less than 4 combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Vanish when Garrote hits 5.4 seconds or less when talented into subterfuge
daring iron
This is late but crimson tempest is incredible at higher keys
Way stronger than pb, I recommend trying it. Only dungeon I’d run pb is maybe kr
warm geode
even on low
ripe nimbus
Depending on the dungeon alot of the dungeons are 2-3 mob packs
lost prawn
@mossy hazel that's basically what i;ve been doing, yeah. My timing on the vanish hasn't been super tight but otherwiuse thats what i'm trying to do. On multi-target fights i'm FOKing and rupturing likw how Sub will Shuriken storm and eviscerate and it seems to work out.
But again i'm just doing timewalking so i'm still playing around.
mossy hazel
Only need to FOK on 4+ targets, lower than that, you should be spreading bleeds and focusing 1 target at a time
lost prawn
Yeah, thats the pulls I mean. I was FOK and spreading rupture around using the crits from FOK.
mossy hazel
And on multi target with Subterfuge you should be able to get garrote on 4 targets
Sounds good dude
warm geode
big packs ( 6 for this example ) g,g,g,ct,fok,fok,rup,vanish,g,g,g,ct,fok,fok,rup,g,fok,fok,ct, somethign like dat
daring iron
My open is 3 garrotes crimson tempest fok spam ruptures for aoe.
mossy hazel
I'm sure you're doing fing
lost prawn
Yeah, Thats what i'm doing, @daring iron
ripe nimbus
Okay I'm 1600 and alot of the dungeons are 2 to 3 packs
warm geode
my prob is, i forget about vanish, need to look more on dat cd .-.
daring iron
Name a dungeon with 2-3 target pulls lol
warm geode
kings rest