So you have bad stats and just lost your leggos
#assassination
glass palm
maybe its worst but i wanted to get a grip of it before hopping into m+ straight away without getting used to m+
but yeah it feels so horrible to level with
visual token
Mut without gear vs with gear is different. Like a lot. Maybe just feelycraft though.
mossy hazel
Once mantle was dead though... I wanted to die
royal lantern
well, its a spec based around dots and slow burst windows, sub/outlaw feel better for world stuff cus you burst things down
hollow stone
I had no issues leveling as sin but maybe im just really good 😏
Get a low cp rupt up on a target before it dies. Sit at max energy every pull n just dump into them
Idk
lost wharf
@hollow stone Leveling by picking flowers doesn't make you good at your class, even tho you had no issue...
hollow stone
Aint no time to pick flowers when rushing 120 on opening night heh
dense wave
I sure as hell picked flowers opening night.
glass palm
ill just level in sub i guess
royal lantern
its not ´´hard´´ as sin, it just takes way longer cus the spec is dot based and needs some stats too feel good
pearl fulcrum
Any rogues in here kill mythic fetid? I need some tips
marble hemlock
if youre on small add play TB
if youre on big go exsang
if you get the debuff with the small circle, you can cloak as it runs out to not get the one with the big circle
dont use it whenever you get it though, keep it for situations where you know oyull have to move soon for example
other than that, i popped vendetta on pull, vanish on first big add, vendetta for second, vanish for third again, and you got one more vendetta during burn
dusky rose
How about vectis
marble hemlock
TB if youre struggling with add damage
dusky rose
Do u go extanguiate too?
marble hemlock
add spawns every 25secs, so perfect lineup for every TB
you can ignore first add, that one usually gets blasted anyway and pop one full vendetta+tb combo on the boss, then keep TB for add 2/3/4
strange python
can someone please write rotation for TB i forgot it 😄 if its no problem 😃 ty
i mean opener
mossy hazel
!GUIDE
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
winter fog
@marble hemlock hey mate, quick question about m+... do you keep garroting enemies in a pull of 4-5 or are you busy keeping rupture/ct up?
grand trail
which talents for zekvos?
marble hemlock
i just multi rupture and keep CT up
with 5 mobs you can spam CT
if you have 5 ruptures
so unless theres a prio target in there, you dont need to garrote
deft sparrow
how do i use the Sharpened Blade Azerite power in rotation? Do i use it as a CP filler?
strange python
at 29 stacks
deft sparrow
or just throw it while kiting...
marble hemlock
you wanna line up 30stacks with vendetta if possible
deft sparrow
but the stacks are build up by auto-attacks or by throwing the knife 29 times?
marble hemlock
attacks
dusky rose
Do u go exsan or tb on mythic vectis
deft sparrow
ok , that's 1 thing. and when i have 30 stacks... i only use it as a filler or replace my mut entirely?
wheat zealot
You use it once
wheat zealot
Stacks reset
grand trail
@dusky rose i use tb
deft sparrow
ok thx. will have to test on dummy 😃
wheat zealot
Im pretty sure it does
marble hemlock
poisoned knife is physical damage
winter fog
@marble hemlock is the cut off for spamming CT over garroting every target at exactly 5?
marble hemlock
nah
wheat zealot
I thought it was 6+
marble hemlock
first prio on aoe is to generate enough energy to sustain spamming abilities
which is 4-5 ruptures
second one would be to maintain CT debuff
if you see all your rupture still have >5sec left, you can spam CT
but you never want to get in a situation where youre starving energy
wheat zealot
At what amount of targets though is the initial hit from ct > an envenom
marble hemlock
so refreshing ruptures, or casting more than 5 ruptures if youre running scent of blood, is preferable
you dont envenom on aoe
the threshold is 1 full duration rupture vs 1 ct initial hit
so check your rupture damage when used with 5cp, check the initial damage of CT, and then you know the answer
i.e. if CT initial is 3k, rupture is 15k, youd CT over rupture on 5+ targets
(the main prio to rupture for energy through VW still applies)
wheat zealot
Ty for the info
winter fog
but on 2-3 targets I'd assume there is some room for envenom, isnt it?
marble hemlock
also, that obviously requires rupture to run full duration
if it does, that changes things a bit, which is where good gamesense comes into play
so if youre able to gauge how long mobs will live, and how many mobs there are, youll usually be able to think quickly and spend your CPs wisely
spice surge
Envenom isnt useless on aoe, it still increases poison procc rate
modern smelt
Fan not proccing extra dps on dp reapp does make envenom a bit weaker aoe
winter fog
@marble hemlock so what im gathering from this is that at 4-5 targets you don't need the weak garrote anymore and only hold up rupture and spam ct otherwise
muted jacinth
yeh I hardly see deadly poison be top 6.
winter fog
ye ofc, thats only logical
but im talking purely about increasing damage output overall
@marble hemlock how does it work for cleave/2-3 targets? obviously keeping CT/rupture up, but do I also spam ct? or do I prefer envenom? do I keep garrote on all of them?
marble hemlock
you dont ct on 2/3 targets unless you have everything up already
meaning rupture on both, garrote on both, envenom up
strange python
Smoke Bomb or crimson tempest for mythic+?
marble hemlock
wat
silk sundial
You mean poison bomb?
marble hemlock
if youre new i suggest taking PB until youre comfortable with the gameplay, CT provides higher aoe dps
strange python
Or depends if there’s tyrannical?
Nah CT is overall better in M+
Unless ure running shit like KR
or ur tank is a puss and pulls 2 mobs
Well I was playing till cataclysm and a bit of Pandaria with rogue
strange python
Then i got bored and started again at the end of legion
marble hemlock
who are new to the multidot-melee gameplay
strange python
Im confused about pooling the energy with assa rogue ,can someone give me few tips about that?
Ok thx m8!
😃
And one last question: CT with TB or exshanguinate?
exsanguinate obviously
silk sundial
I'd say that comes down to preference
dusky rose
Is the garrote bug still live?
strange hatch
@dusky rose no.
silk sundial
Tb and exang are both good for m+
proper zealot
Haste is only the best for single-target. Both Mastery and Crit are better for AoE.
silk sundial
Haste becomes pointless with aoe. A lot of people run crit/mastery but run gc for haste on bosses
dusky rose
Interesting
bleak storm
strange hatch
fun thing - I got 7 sockets on my gear and changed all from haste to crit today and it felt aweful for whatever reason
mossy hazel
Lol?
Why would you change them all to crit? And why would you expect a different result?
proper zealot
Why would you stack Crit?
mossy hazel
I mean I know crit is better for M+, but I doubt you would want to stack it like that
Also, screw you with your 7 sockets.
proper zealot
Those are always the best.
strange hatch
but in terms of the aweful feeling, that's also likely to come from pug party with unusual style
strange python
Why don’t you use raidbot to see what stat is better?
strange hatch
b/c the sim is always just as good as the scenario you put it up to
fierce ingot
!ss
strange python
on zek what gear should i use crit/mastery or haste/crit , same question for zul
silk sundial
What kind of crit/haste do you have now?
strange hatch
silk sundial
That's actually a decent amount of haste
strange hatch
yep
mossy hazel
What is it now?
mossy hazel
Ohh, gotcha
strange hatch
but its -240 haste if I change 6 of the 7 gems
silk sundial
We are talking m+ right?
strange hatch
yeah. range 10-13
silk sundial
I'd say dropping haste in favor of crit is the right way to go
strange hatch
see that was my thought as well
strange hatch
we're talking about +-2-3%
silk sundial
Idk, I'm used to 8-14% haste range. Once you have 4+ bleeds up you shouldn't need much haste
mossy hazel
I didn't realize mastery was weighted that much in aoe. Thought crit and haste just swapped priority
strange python
I actually hate going crit / mast for m+
marble hemlock
strange python
I feel like i dont have enough regen
marble hemlock
my aoe weights with 0% haste
marble hemlock
well, 4% or so
silk sundial
You will notice the lack of haste with 2-3 target pulls for sure
marble hemlock
6t 40sec
strange python
forget about pulls like those in pugs rofl
silk sundial
Have you tried running low haste build w/ exang and galecaller?
silk sundial
Mine is 355 too 😁 it's either that or 370 lions guile
pulsar lake
Where can I leave guide feedback?
strange python
You could probably DM a shadow
winter fog
@marble hemlock no ct on 2/3 targets as in not at all or just not spamming?
i'd guess not at all
marble hemlock
yeah im playing low haste with exsang+galecaller
its not like mastery is super shit for singletarget either, its just that haste is a bit better
so youre not dropping massive amounts of st/2t damage by going crit+mastery
silk sundial
Contemplating trying out my gale caller w/ lions guile on fortified weeks. Fathoms is pretty bad for aoe and I can alternate the trinkets to pretty much have one up per pull.
I'd love some of the good equip trinkets
winter fog
is there a weak aura that tells me how many enemies have my rupture on them?
like basically tracking your scent of blood stack without actually having the trait
bleak tusk
silk sundial
I can link one when I get home. I made a bar tracker, shows the duration of each rupture/garrote out. Quick glance to see I have 4 ruptures and 2 garrotes but 1 of them is about to fall off
winter fog
thanks @bleak tusk
stable pine
Tried running with DD, jebus it’s shitshow
winter fog
@silk sundial that seems strong, but also very confusing
mossy hazel
You thought DD was bad?
silk sundial
It was a little at first, but I would let my bleeds fall off if I wasn't paying attention
mossy hazel
DD is one of the top raiding traits right now
molten flicker
you can't swap gear in m+ afaik
muted jacinth
I dont use a weakaura to track how many are out.. I just have my enemy nameplates rupture and garrotes glow when active to easier see what doesnt have what
winter fog
@silk sundial might wanna check it out tho, have some estimate time when you're able to link it?
muted jacinth
@molten flicker they mean using galecallers one pull and the other trinket the next pull
strange hatch
ok so here is something for more smart ppl than me
molten flicker
unless it's another dungeon
silk sundial
I'll dm you, it'll be about 3 hours.
strange hatch
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qGXrYjCoCwY2uv7AccJFvN --- all gems as I have right now
aka haste stacked
and one with enchants and gems to all crit
6T 40s
daring imp
how much crit with that haste stacking
strange python
Why the fuck would u switch out the agility gem tho
strange hatch
22
strange python
rofl
strange hatch
ah w8 that could be the reason
daring imp
eww
strange hatch
b/c I simple let raidbot replace the gems
for sake of easier comparison - if I use all haste instead of 1 agi 6 haste
still higher than crit
same gear stat weights say crit 4.22, haste 3.16
valid mirage
quick q, sorry if its common I don't play a lot of sin, did the shrouded suffocation bug where casting it on a 4th target nerfed the first 3 dots every get fixed? I remember seeing that it was in some patchnotes somewhere but not sure if they were ptr or live
molten flicker
yes, it's been fixed
valid mirage
cheers ❤
molten flicker
spread the bleeds!
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy finch
Quick question: Shrouded Suffocation, if you have 2, does it give more CP than having 1?
molten flicker
no
balmy finch
Is it worth having 2 for raids then?
molten flicker
what does your sim say
balmy finch
It's just a general question, I haven't simmed it yet
molten flicker
it's better than having something worse
balmy finch
Ok, so it's viable
molten flicker
it was fixed 3 weeks ago I think?
stable pine
Are you sure?
molten flicker
that's not to say they haven't reintroduced it
I have no answer to that
but it was fixed
rocky notch
it's fixed
winter fog
FoK > mutilaton on 3+ targets right? feels like I need 4 foks to get 4 cp 😐
pulsar lake
FoK doesn't affect combo point gen, its still only 1 plus 1 for each crit
its not 1 for each target
its not like storm
pulsar lake
Yea so the common logic now, is fok on 4 targets, or on 3 to refresh poisons
winter fog
so basically 10 energy more expensive baseline
pulsar lake
that was updated in the sin guide recently
silk sundial
Anyone on ptr get to play with the new fok trait?
zealous lily
fok will be different if you have DD traits etc.
look at your logs and your traits to determine how many targets it takes for fok to be > mut
slow finch
According to this, my interpretation of what would be optimal for 3 azerite traits are= 3x Double dose until I get something higher right? https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=azerite_traits&type=trait_stacking&tier=3
fading spade
Not really @slow finch
slow finch
I know I need to sim which I will. But just in general was the question.
fading spade
If you're reading it by stacking and not Ilvl 3x DD is just 1825
Where one stack of say archive is 1845 alone
slow finch
oh ok, so I go for 1 of the DD,
1 dagger in the back,
1 champion of az
?
fading spade
The different blocks show how much of a gain per stack. For one stack of archive. There isnt. A single trait that gives a bigger boost
slow finch
Assuming I don't have anything else on top of the list?
fading spade
If you're going to be raiding you want to aim for at least one archive
Which comes from raid pieces
silk sundial
If you don't have archive matrix will work too. The Stat bonus is too good to pass up
fading spade
Yes either one of those
slow finch
I don't have any of these:
fading spade
Have you not done any raiding?
slow finch
I have but minimal
fading spade
Any azerite gear from the raids?
slow finch
I would have to check. Currently at work
fading spade
Each raid piece will have either archive or laser matrix
sacred bramble
+10RA and +5RA is only within Uldir. Look at the same traits without RA if you don't raid
slow finch
I will thank you for this feedback much appreciated!
sacred bramble
glacial steppe
I want vendetta for the big add at fetid, right?
fading spade
Np @slow finch but as @sacred bramble the archive with RA is worthless if you don't raid so honestly in terms of pure single target output 3x DD is definitely one of the top simming outside raid enviroment
vague ledge
ehm this may have been asked a lot but do we stack shrouded suffocation for raidbosses? 😃
proper igloo
can we do 4 garrotes yet
sullen pagoda
@glacial steppe that really depends on your setup
theres no general answer to that
glacial steppe
@sullen pagoda do we want to kill the big add first or the two small adds?
fading spade
@vague ledge if it's all you have then yeah. But I'd aim for other pieces if possible
sullen pagoda
small adds die 1st always their hp pool is lower + boss goes for them 1st
pastel vault
Boss goes for small after 10 sec, big after 25 or 30?
marble hemlock
25
iron prism
@vague ledge generally you want to go master assassin and st talents for raid bosses... 1x archive of the titans, 2x double dose. but situationally you can still run subterfuge and 2xSS 1x archive (shorter fights like heroic vectis, fights like zul with aoe, etc). it's not ideal but still works. they're just different
main monolith
hi 25crit/22haste/26mastery/1 versa good stats for raid?
opaque grotto
I’m running 1 archive 1 DD and 1 poison wire with MA
iron prism
if you're min maxxing a single target fight SS is not gonna win, but it can still be adequate, i run archive and 2x SS and still parse 90s usually on heroic fights and purple on mythic
silk sundial
Not at home, do any of the raid pieces have dd? The only dd piece I have is a 340 lol
opaque grotto
You can get the env > mut > env every time inside MA window
iron prism
@main monolith depends on how you sim, talents, traits, etc.
@silk sundial nope they dont =/
silk sundial
So pray to the rng gods. At least now emissary scales to 370
iron prism
pretty much, i've never even seen a 340+ piece with DD lol
i run 370 archive, 370 SS, 385 SS
final stone
i have gotten 2 360 helms that wont let me see what the azerite traits are sooo riipi
vague ledge
@iron prism @fading spade cheers 😃
final stone
370 i mean
iron prism
@vague ledge gl, generally just go MA if you have the traits for it in raid and sim. but SS is godly in m+ and anything else is probably wrong lol
silk sundial
More of a m+ build, I run sub for raid due to bad pieces, but I run 370 ss, archive and sob
spice surge
Theres only a chest and a helm with DD aswell
silk sundial
Oh yeah. Great for m+
errant mauve
An empowered garrote does more dmg and 2 env 1 mut that you’d get off in ma doesn’t it?
iron prism
silk sundial
For raid I would replace the sob with another archive
Or Sim to see if my poison wire or twist the knife is better
errant mauve
Atleast you didn’t get a 385 helm with sharpened blades
iron prism
sharpened can be solid
steep obsidian
without hving to fkn respec your traits :\
silk sundial
385 shoulders with twist the knife or rezans fury 😁
It has bad traits for all three specs really
steep obsidian
that gets expensive real quick
cunning urchin
what traits do you guys run in m+
iron prism
ss x3
silk sundial
I thought about running scent for m vectis. It would be better than archive if there was constantly 2 adds
iron prism
man
can you imagine how dull this channel would be if we had legion artifacts instead of azerite traits
marble hemlock
running 2scent 1ss for m+
but mostly due to having 2x385 scent compared to 340 ss 😦
silk sundial
Check out the sub channel sometime. It is only people asking how to play sub for mythic zul
iron prism
maybe i'm not reading it right but 1 stack of scent parses better than a 3rd stack of SS according to hero damage
for m+ obv
only the first stack seems to parse than high for SS
marble hemlock
herodamage sim still has issues tho
still only opening with 2garrotes instead of 3
silk sundial
And it doesn't restealth when calculating the dungeon Sims right?
iron prism
at least it shows the other specs, thats my main issue with bloodmallet
marble hemlock
but the apl still prioritizes spending CP over using a 3rd garrote on stealth opener/vanish
kind estuary
Looking at the high parsing sin rogues on the warcraft logs M+ leader board is a pretty good indicator that 1/2 SS is still good.
marble hemlock
keep in mind that most people pushing highkeys dont actually log
silk sundial
If you look at most top runners, they still have at least 1 ss
marble hemlock
well, at same ilvl SS is by far the best trait, the only question is at what point do other traits become competitive
and unless you manage to get icnredibly accurate models for the APL, which is nigh impossible for m+, youre never gonna get reliable results through simcraft
so saying "370archive > 340ss" or something like that is really only speculation and feelycrafting
nocturne jetty
is it normal on shorter fights for melee damage to be so high compared to everything else?
frosty violet
That's more or less what I did, made my own APL that I felt modeled the M+ life better. The suggestions it makes now seem to mirror what I see on WarcraftLogs. The APLs that come with SimC are usually optimized for a specific set of circumstances, so rather than view SimC as an all-knowing tool, I view it more like a Q&A tool, design a scenario that you're curious about and see what the answer to that specific scenario is.
molten moon
My sims show two SS is better on 3-boss 60sec fight and one SS and one Scent is better on 5-pack 60 sec fight.
iron prism
@nocturne jetty depends on the fight, melee damage was increased relative to ability damage for bfa. compare yourself with top parses for similar fights and see if your ability distribution is the same
nocturne jetty
okay, just a small thing i noticed having just done a really low key (a 5) and melee was second below garrote
iron prism
@molten moon i mean that makes sense, scent scales beyond 3 whereas shrouded suffocation benefit caps at 3
glacial steppe
how many melees do you had on your first fetid kill?
molten moon
so in theory, you gotta keep up at least 4 stacks of scent (4 ruptures) to really outscale the benefit of a second SS trait
iron prism
@molten moon i mean you'd keep as many ruptures as possible... fan until 4-5 stacks and rupture if theres enough mobs
molten moon
which is tough to execute on imo, so might just be better value to go with two SS
iron prism
well, m+ is by nature inconsistent... you're gonna get more performance out of scent on large pulls, but get less performance on 3 or single target
you're kinda balancing it out
end of the day they probably parse similarly. i'd guess ss maybe edges it out but i dont really know
molten moon
I guess I'm still trying to figure out, at what point to do I stop garroting/rupturing everything to start Envenoming. Or do I just spam garrote/rupture/crimson tempest the whole fight?
marble hemlock
also gonna get more value out of scent on long pulls, duration wise, than short ones
etc.
frosty violet
You probably don't pull more than 1 large pack every 2 minutes either... If you're doing a 5-6 target pull then you should be vanishing to garrote all
but I'm pretty sure the APL doesn't do this
molten moon
With 5+ mobs in a pack, you could probably rupture/garrote endlessly as they keep falling off
iron prism
you rupture until everything is dotted
marble hemlock
4-5ruptures, maintain ct, spam ct if its 5+ mobs. you only ever envenom on aoe if its prio damage on the vendetta target
molten moon
@marble hemlock that makes sense
iron prism
if you're poison bombing then envenoming is acceptable
frosty violet
Rupture procs Poison Bomb
marble hemlock
on bigger pulls, which are the only pulls where you can generate enough CP to 5+rupture and maintain CT and still have leftover CP for other stuff, ct usually outscales envenom
as in, spamming ct just for the initial damage
marble hemlock
the 30% poison application chance doesnt do all that much for aoe compared to another CT initial damage spam
molten moon
thanks guys
iron prism
yeah i mean honestly if unless you're super min/max and trying to run m14 keys or something all of the above is pretty acceptable
molten moon
all of my sims also show TB > exang so I'm just worried I'm losing TB value by not envenoming
iron prism
both poison bomb and CT are good situationally, as are scent vs ss
marble hemlock
for m+ you never play TB
iron prism
provided you always have at least 1 ss
marble hemlock
and if you do, you dont use it on aoe
molten moon
@marble hemlock really? even if the 3boss / 5boss sims show TB as 200+ DPS better?
marble hemlock
are those 2-3min sims, or 5min?
molten moon
1 min
iron prism
yeah most sims i see say go with TB, i'm not convinced that's so clear
iron prism
ah, i see your point, saying go with ex for the ST part
molten moon
i was just trying to simulate 60 second trash pulls to get a better idea of a M+ environment
iron prism
maybe
marble hemlock
tb is useless on aoe, whereas exsang provides a nice bump to your energy-generation early into the pull
by opening g g g ct fok (fok) rup exsang you make sure that you dont energy starve for ~10sec after exsang
by the time the exsang dots run out, you got 4-5 ruptures running, can maintain CT during that time, and you never energy starve during the entire pull
molten moon
that makes so much sense
marble hemlock
so even if its slightly worse on ST, which im not convinced it is unless youre running DD/ttk traits for m+, the benefit exsang provides on aoe should put it miles ahead of TB for m+
molten moon
The reason I doubt scent of blood is because I never seem to be able to generate enough combo pts fast enough to keep ruptures up
but exang changes that
marble hemlock
and since most people run 3xSS for m+ anyway, exsang still has very good value even on bosses, considering most grps keep BL for like 3 out of 4 bosses and how well it works with most fight durations
yeah, thats mostly an energy-generation and a crit issue
how much crit are you running?
round harbor
When I run sin I dungeons I'm just going one SS, blighted, and swirling sands. Purely ilvl choices
little burrow
are you boys running CT this week?
molten moon
@marble hemlock Sry at work and had to look it up. Looks like its Crit 28.11%, Mastery 21.3%, Haste 18.16%, Vers 2.59%
marble hemlock
im currently running with 32% crit and dead-eye spyglass, which procs basically on every trashpull, which puts me at a comfy ~40% crit
a lot smoother to play aoe with high crit
frosty violet
I'm pretty torn, tried high crit and it's pretty smooth but a lot of top parses are high haste with SotS trinket
Seems like they just double down on ridiculously powerful SS openers
molten moon
still dont have that. I'm pretty pumped to run exang on some Mythic runs tonight. Thanks for the feedback
just so weird that exang sims so much worse
strange python
My simc says that for mythic + for aoe situations the best combo is CT and TB and for bosses the best combo is TB with poison bomb
molten moon
same, but most higher level players run Exang anyway, apparently for the energy regen
silk sundial
There are several arguments for exang. Priority damage, tb does that too. Energy regen early on to make up for lack of haste. Synergises well with galecaller which again is a great haste boost
weary arrow
in uldir is there any reason to run more then one azerite piece with archive? correct me if I am wrong, but the max stacks of the agility buff during combat is 20 right? regardless of if you have 1, 2, or 3 pieces of archive gear right
strange python
you get agi from both pieces on each stack
royal lantern
with 2x archives it still stacks at the same speed, but the buff is 2x as strong
weary arrow
thank you
finite gazelle
this is a line from the guide
For potions you should use Battle pot of Agility in nearly every situation. There are very edge cases where Potion of Bursting Blood might come ahead of Agility in single target situations.
what is the certain cases where bursting blood is better?
royal lantern
i gues 100%single target situations with low movment/downtime and heroism active?
desert vault
There is more pooling with TB than Exsang prolly?
They sim almost identical for me but I got a really strong GCB so might need to swap. Sticking with TB for the moment since I'm more familiar.
frosty gyro
GCB is good with TB too
You can use it to boost energy regen for triple envenom on your 2nd use of GCB since your 3rd TB is roughly 1 min in
hollow stone
Gcb isnt that good on outlaw @pastel wasp
frosty gyro
Eh I'd say it is
hollow stone
(It was a hint that you should play outlaw on m zek)
frosty gyro
Sin is still fine on Zek
And pretty sure GCB is still one of the best outlaw trinkets for zek especially 🤔
pulsar lake
I mean it's fine if the rest of the raid can cover the burst aoe
frosty gyro
Most of outlaws highest sim trinkets are proc trinkets that scale with ruthless precision but they fall off in value for AOE
GCB is like the 3rd highest simming stat trinket
pastel wasp
anyone 4/8M
frosty gyro
ye?
frosty gyro
My logs aren't amazing though
Why not just look at some random higher parsing guy's logs?
lost tree
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vQmHkssxZz8kRKxNqYK1Q8 Definitly need better Azerite Traits ._.
lost tree
its it not enough? dont know
daring imp
3min
frosty gyro
Oh 3 min
lost tree
yeah^^
covert pumice
I’ve been building my rogue after icy veins so my stat priority is haste > crit > mastery > versatility. Now I’m watching a pvp guide and it claims that it’s haste > versatility > mastery > crit. I’m kinda confused n afraid I wrongly equipped my char, does anyone have any insight? Bc my versatility is on 0.73% lol
frosty gyro
Well pvp is fucked and ignore stat priority in pvp
There's a reddit thread about it
Basically you want to wear a bunch of greens with sockets and make your ilv like 300
While stacking as much vers as possible
And having good azerite traits at high ilv
strange python
this why
lost tree
whats a proper DPS with 372 and what should i sim?^^
strange python
i never go into pvp
frosty gyro
In PvE it's like haste>sim everything else
strange python
there isnt such a thing as proper dps
daring imp
~16k?
frosty gyro
But you can't go wrong with haste
covert pumice
Bruh is that serious tho? Like.. high Vers and shitty gear?
frosty gyro
Yeah it's becauyse of pvp scaling
daring imp
well a 3k rating shadow priest has 300 equipped gear on his armory
covert pumice
Cause idk I’ve been following icy veins so my Vers is like I said under 1% but my haste and crit is high and obv mastery is sky high
daring imp
high ilvl trinkets & azerite gear only
daring imp
everything else low ilvl socketed, 200~220
daring imp
and agi wep i guess?
lost tree
would love to have 2 SS
frosty gyro
I want my vectis hat
patent palm
anyone have a good WA to track dots on multiple targets?
strange python
use google
covert pumice
Lmao so pvp is basically knowing blizzards fuck ups and abusing them?
frosty gyro
atm yes
covert pumice
Is that gonna change any soon?
covert pumice
Bc I can’t live w myself thinking I’m complete trash lmao
covert pumice
Well.. is my stat priority correct for pve atleast?
frosty gyro
frosty violet
For PvP you want to maximize damage in a short burst window, so haste is naturally going to be a lower stat since most of its value is in dot ticks and energy regen
Versatility and Mastery both increase the damage of individual hits
Crit deficit can be covered by Master Assassin
so usually you stack Vers/Mastery in PvP
frosty gyro
Except right now haste is the best stat for sin
Unless you're doing the buggy scaling stuff
karmic ingot
Does that scaling affect world PvP too?
frosty gyro
I think so yeah
covert pumice
So I should definitely work on my versatility rn? As it’s under 1%
frosty gyro
Might be wrong though
You could go read what I said earlier
Because apparently you didn't read it
karmic ingot
Lol
spice surge
There is some scaling though, you wont really do more damage with that build. You do get more tanky
There is a reason only the spriest has it
frosty gyro
Yeah the point is that it makes you harder to kill/easier to heal
spice surge
Because their damage is garbage and they're just there for utility and cc
So i dont think its good to go for as assa
I could see it for sub
frosty gyro
You could probably do the same thing and stack haste so your haste gets scaled a ton
But you would still benefit from having lower stamina
spice surge
Afaik your stats doesnt scale, only damage
Which is why you go vers
Idk why this post got so much attention though
This was posted like once every week since bfa
frosty gyro
Yeah your stats don't scale which is why you make them really low and then use azerite/trinkets
Like if you get your mainstat down to 3k then a 1500 mainstat pvp active trinket is a 50% damage increase
Compared to at 6k where it's only a 25% increase
tight grotto
What can I show you guys to get some advice on improving my DPS during heroic and mythic raiding?
strange python
logs
strange python
Scent of blood is not a good ST trait
spice surge
@tight grotto 1. Use your potion 1s before the fight instead of together with vendetta in your opener
2. Your uptimes on rupture and garrote could use some work on a lot of bosses. below 95% on a pretty stationary ST fight is pretty bad.
3. Use your highest ilvl weapon in your mainhand (might be a wcl bug showing incorrectly, but hey)
4. You seem to be holding onto your vendetta&toxic blade for very long missing casts on a lot of fights, use them more often
tight grotto
What's ST?
spice surge
Singletarget
The reason for using your potion before pulling is because then you can use another one later as well
tight grotto
How can I improve my Rupture and Garrote uptime?
spice surge
Dont let the dots fall off
tight grotto
Any other advice?
peak saffron
use weakauras to track pandemic timers
tight grotto
Does it matter what enchant is on which weapon?
spice surge
No
strange python
Hey there, I'm using the ravenholdt opener, but for some reasons I see other rogue on parse that are using a different one with an evenom, is this something new or.. ?
strange python
Hmm
A rogue in my guild is using the same, and he's blowing me at pull, I found this strange
daring imp
got any logs?
daring imp
he's massivs?
little burrow
is race changing to Nelf worth the monies?
daring imp
well this opening only uses envenom after setting up the entire exs
and is the correct one o_o
strange python
Ok, so I missread I guess
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
strange python
I'm on it
daring imp
One or more Shrouded Suffocation powers for Exsanguinate
Garrote
Rupture
Garrote
Vendetta
Mutilate
Rupture
Exsanguinate when talented
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Vanish when Garrote runs out
Garrote twice
that's the exact thing he uses
that link you gave me
he only envenoms after exs
click on "casts"
and see it
g>r>g>ven>mut>gcb+r+racial>exs
then he does muts > env
strange python
Yup, my bad, too tired, gonna check my guildmate opener tho, he's using something different from what he told me
tight grotto
Is exs much better than TB?
daring imp
sim it
strange python
Thanks @daring imp btw
daring imp
requires more micromanaging but it's great if you play it alright, both are competitive, top logs will have both being largely used
spice surge
I just wish TB was on a 30 sec CD instead of 25
25 is just so wierd and makes lining up stuff really odd
lethal swallow
exang sims like 500dps lower for me 
smoky tulip
Yo, question. A rogue in my guild that runs 1 SS trait pops vend with his prepot. Is this viable? Should we be doing that with SS or still follow ravenholdt guide opener?
spice surge
Assuming it did more damage to accomodate for the increased cd ofc
strange python
@smoky tulip ????????
smoky tulip
I’m serious lol
daring imp
uh ... prepot usually is on prepull
smoky tulip
I’m told he said it’s better
daring imp
so you have another pot for when it gets off cd
smoky tulip
Yep and he pops vend on prepull
humble igloo
yikes
strange python
what are his parses
daring imp
let's have some "chat" with this fella
smoky tulip
Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear. He pops vend and prepot 1s before pull so gouge gets vend buffs etc
spice surge
Lets be real, the difference is gonna be really small
spice surge
But no that is not optimal
strange python
u dont vendetta before pull
daring imp
he'd do better by not doing that
smoky tulip
He’s not the Top parsing rogue in guild but thought I’d ask in here
daring imp
probably
spice surge
You still get the full vendetta off inside your potion and with SS garrotes up for the entire duration
Using it on prepull means you get less uptime of both rupture and garrote during your 20s window
pastel wasp
@daring imp hey f00l
daring imp
yo \o
pastel wasp
o.O
daring imp
urgh i'm not quite there yet but i'm assuming on cd except for vend/vanish where you want to sync them up
of course IF it's not on the pizza-running thing
then you delay
pastel wasp
ya
daring imp
run ct then lul
pastel wasp
noice
sturdy python
Quick question. After opener I use the next exsang on CD. After that the next exsang comes off CD before vendetta/vanish. Do I hold it or use it then hold the vendetta/vanish another 20 secs
Im sure it depends on fight times but what do people usually do
This is sub/exsang on ST ofc
tardy anchor
Guys, I am currently running Talent 100 Poison Bomb, but Crimson tempest seems nice in encounter with multiple mobs. What would you reccomend? Get Crimson and use it on 3+, 4+ mobs, or stick with Poison bomb?
daring imp
@sturdy python gotta have vend/vanish for the 4th exsang
sturdy python
So do use the 3rd on CD? K ty
daring imp
a good thing vend/vanish comes cd off first so you can setup properly before popping exs
vocal harbor
if you cloak the healing debuff on mythic mother, does it still do the explosion to the whole group?
sturdy python
Right
vocal harbor
like do i have to walk out before cloaking
daring imp
@tardy anchor 2+ keep debuff up, not sure if you should follow that logic if you have twist the knife trait but prob not
sturdy python
Another question then, since im so assassin rusty. If I time it badly where I have a non pandemic rup/garrote when exsang is about to come off CD should i pandemic it asasp or just exsang whats there
daring imp
there are a million scenarios regarding that, there's no clear answer, but i always refresh rup with 4 or 5 cp and gar before popping exsanguinates
sometimes i don't refresh right before popping exs because i'd otherwise cap energy, i refresh like 4~5s before
sturdy python
Yeah alright, probably best to just make sure I dont mis time it anyway
tardy anchor
@daring imp what debuff? Crimson debuff? I dont have Exsanguinate
daring imp
@tardy anchor ye, ct debuff, it deals dmg
tardy anchor
ye i know. so u saying when there are 2+ mobs, keep CT debuff up?
so use it on 2+ mobs
daring imp
on 2+ targets that will live all the entire ct duration, keep it up with the other two dots, pandemic and stuff, envenom otherwise, while keeping rup/gar up too
tardy anchor
dont know pandemic, the res tof the stuff I undestrand
daring imp
pandemic is to refresh the dot before it actually ends so it will last over its maximum duration
it's a dot mechanic
makes so you have a window where you won't lose a single tick of a dot if you refresh it, and you don't need to wait it end to refresh it
"Pandemic is an effect where if you refresh a dot/debuff/hot/buff/whatever before it has run out, then up to 30% of the duration of that ability will be added to the new duration. For instance, I apply a dot that lasts 10 seconds, if I then reaply it immediately again, the new duration will be 13 seconds. This allows you to be able to reapply the dot within the last 30% of it's duration without losing any uptime or expending additional resources. Before this mechanic was in the game you had to wait for abilities to time out completely before reapplying them or you would lose uptime, but now you have more of a window to choose exactly when to reapply."
dusk sun
where can i find good elvui settings i can copy
deft sparrow
does the raidbot sim takes "reorigination array" into account?
deft sparrow
yeah strange... cuz it sims "dagger in the back" than "laser matrix" ... while herodamage puts laser quite higher
dusk sun
afaik herodmg is shite
deft sparrow
its pinned though...
median mason
How's it shit
daring imp
laser matrix w/o stacks being better than ditb?
or the other way around?
@dusk sun wago.io has an elvui area
deft sparrow
ditb better than laser matrix with 4 stacks
tardy anchor
@daring imp thx! so in conclusion, Tempest is better, and whenever around 2+ mobs, try to keep it up along with the 2 main dots
dusk sun
thanks
daring imp
@tardy anchor only when the adds will live for the full ct duration
like ... if one of them is dying already just envenom
deft sparrow
laser should sim higher, no @daring imp even with 4 stacks. i'm quite confused haha
dusk sun
I find tempest better for insanely hug packs, poison bomb is still better for most cases
🤔
daring imp
well given he was already using ct keeping debuff up ( not spamming it ) is better
for 2 targets
oh well @deft sparrow you already have an uldir trait
thought the laser was your only uldir trait
karmic ingot
He was actually asking if he should switch to CT over poison bomb.
daring imp
oh, i didn't actually catch that
deft sparrow
ooow.. they dont stack??? Since 2x laser does stack, 2x archive does stack i thought 1x laser + 1x archive stacked 2
daring imp
reorigination array doesn't stack if you use multiple uldir traits
1x uldir trait will give you 7x ra stacks, 2x uldir trait will still be 7x ra stacks
errant mauve
what are ideal stat priorities for raid?
deft sparrow
i see.. didnt know that. thanks!
daring imp
@errant mauve usually crit/haste at the top
just sim it to be sure, it changes with traits/talents/trinkets too much for it to be a rule
crisp hollow
constantly
crisp hollow
macro with vendetta is what i did cuz im lazy
might not be super ideal tho
not sure
i just press buttons
vital haven
thats what we all do son
crisp hollow
( Pawn: v1: "Spiceville - Assassination (Raidbots)": Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, Agility=2.18, CritRating=2.16, HasteRating=2.17, MasteryRating=2.17, Versatility=2.06, Dps=11.04, OffHandDps=1.22 ) nice i can start equipping ilvl now
crisp hollow
pretty much calling it a day with gear until 8.1 once i get fetid chest at 385
hollow cloud
yeh same
I got gem sockets on like all my pieces so I need to TF + socket to upgrade anything now
crisp hollow
my boots and harlan's for aoe are the only 370 items i have without a socket lol where was this luck in Antorus
short thicket
havent really touched my rogue until the past week, is SS still preferred trait
short thicket
i have 2 pieces of SS but ones a shitty 340(helm) 355(chest), but my other is a 370 is laser matrix (chest)
i got some horribel trinkets to go with it too facepalm
sterile ocean
is there any Trinkets better then fathems??
wild gyro
Nope
opaque grotto
Galecaller’s
grave elk
does someone have a macro for exsang and tb? so it always just uses the one that is currently talented?
ruby idol
#showtooltip
/cast [talent:6/2]Toxic Blade;[talent6/3]Exsanguinate
fervent elk
does a shrouded suffocation garrote overwrite a non SS one?
frosty violet
Yes
fervent elk
ty
icy hare
when opening on an aoe pack with exsanguinate and crimson tempest, whats the rotation look like?
lethal drift
thanks @ruby idol
drifting elbow
g-g-g-r-CT-exsang prio guy-resume normal rotation?
icy hare
alrighty
drifting elbow
u can extend rupture if u want
noble ingot
any1 using lazer in m+?
drifting elbow
if those are best, they are good
noble ingot
think so.
buoyant ember
Hi guys, anyone have any clutch macros they'd like to share?
harsh sphinx
ya i had laser agro the entire front room in underot, do not recommend
hazy skiff
!ss
marble hemlock
I think your first mistake is that youre not being very specific about what your problem seems to be.
hollow jungle
I’m gonna say you’re probably doing something wrong
daring imp
thortek do you have any logs anything at all to support your claim
i always assume everyone here is a korean pro unless they link bad logs lul
daring imp
ok which of those is the most recent one
with best gear/etc.
usually you link the log you want analyzed, not the profile ( unless i'm wrong @_@" )
analog iron
hahah my bad new to thius
daring imp
no worries
analog iron
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WQyhqZzkwMHV9G8T#fight=27&type=damage-done I believe that is wha tyou are looking for
arctic crow
Do you guys play the highest simming build
i m still running exsang with SS
its only like 300 less
seems better in mythic
daring imp
@analog iron ok so right off the bat, your rupture/garrote uptime were bad
@arctic crow i do but on a few mythic fights SS is really interesting
thortek looks like you barely damaged the other adds
do they get cleaved too fast on your group?
arctic crow
it just seems better if you are able to get a garrote on any other target
arctic crow
fetid, vectis, taloc
daring imp
what madness is this
arctic crow
u can get a garrote on more than boss
jaunty copper
How does this trinket change your opener?
https://www.wowhead.com/item=159617/lustrous-golden-plumage
daring imp
weren't you spending the cps you generate with fok?
analog iron
I was reupping my Rup on boss
analog iron
O i c
analog iron
I do
daring imp
do you properly see the combo points when the bar is full/almost full?
'cuz you might not have been paying enoug hattention to it
analog iron
Yeah should I be spending at 4
daring imp
yep
and
you should prioritize rupture/garrote uptime on the boss
it was up for only like 60% of the fight
that's legit too much deeps lost down the drain
your garrote would've done almost 200k more
analog iron
Good to know
daring imp
and rupture about 300k more
not even counting the extra energy you get back
'cuz it was a friggin' long fight
extra energy = more mut/env
literally the most important thing is to never let your bleeds fall
also, as you don't have any SS
try to sim yourself with master assassin instead of subterfuge, check if it's an upgrade
daring imp
sim it to be sure
analog iron
will do thanks a ton
jaunty copper
So this on-use trinket brings you out of stealth, so it looks like you can't use it as your opener.
You'd have to garotte first to make sure you get the Subterfuge benefit and then use the trinket.
https://www.wowhead.com/item=159617/lustrous-golden-plumage
quiet crescent
max amount of melee on fetid is?
daring imp
4~5?
@jaunty copper can't you just macro it with vendetta tho?
it even syncs up nicely
jaunty copper
@daring imp true
@drifting elbow This buffs your vers by a bunch so I'd assume you'd want that up sooner than later
jaunty copper
k
drifting elbow
interesting idea but unfortunately its pretty not ideal
jaunty copper
ok ty
fading spade
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
supple compass
mythic vectis is defs a sin fight right
inner pecan
yes
arctic crow
for sure
Ive been using a lower ilvl SS piece for that one
any cleave feels bad with no SS piece
imo
shell saffron
pastel jackal
!ss
ebon tapir
Fat 99% parses tonight boys https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/G6NCKcrkB3WA4v89#fight=2&view=rankings
jaunty copper
@ebon tapir How did you maintain that uptime on the adds during the elevator? Were they gripped to you?
lost prawn
Anybody know of a leveling spec for assassination, or shoul dI use the standard ravenholdt build?
ebon tapir
@jaunty copper Yes, we had DK tank
Would've parsed better on fetid but someone pulled early so prepot was fucked
ebon tapir
well I mean mythrax is RNG with orbs right? and ghuun is just a shitshow sometimes. My guild hasn't downed heroic yet cause we pushed it to off nights
plain spruce
guy's, tips for fetid?
marble hemlock
what kind of tips are you looking for, specificlaly?
dps? movement? setup? assignments?
plain spruce
were in our first 20 pulls, just rogue specific or dps help, i know to cloak the dot etc just anymore tips for melee
or dps in general i can share with the raid
marble hemlock
which add are you on? big or small?
quartz dew
I swear mythrax picks his "favourite" every attempt and you just screwed. Had 30% uptime on ruin on one of our pulls
marble hemlock
mythrax applies ruin based on position
plain spruce
we are splitting on both small add's then joining on big add
were fine on dmg for small add's, getting close to killing big
marble hemlock
depending on where you and the rest of the raid are standing, your ruins might look like this basically every try
quartz dew
we have a load of melee, generally one of us gets ruins like that ^^
marble hemlock
yeah
depending on whether you all have assigned positions you take whenever you dont have to go for the add
you will see very similar ruins every try
quartz dew
only talking about lil' baby heroic where we're all just hitting him spread for orbs. We're no where near there on mythic haha
marble hemlock
haha
yeah
same logic still applies
basically
try to stay on the eastern side of the room/his right side (assuming youre tanking him facing north/northeast)
and you will almost never get ruin
he starts with 2people closest to tanks and then applies them counter-clock wise from what i can tell
quartz dew
insane that's how it works, looking forward to trying to scum that next week
marble hemlock
@plain spruce so youre on one of the small adds from the start, and then swap to the big one once the small one is dead?
id say go TB then to prioritize damage on the small add
ideally they put you as an assa on the big one though, then you can play exsang and rotate CDs for very good add-damage
basically you wanna assign who uses what cooldowns when to make sure that you dont have adds where everyone pops CDs at once
we did 2nd pots on 2nd adds, bloodlust on 3rd ones
those usually didnt require as many CDs because of that
plain spruce
yes
marble hemlock
other than that theres not much to say, they removed some of the RNG by always having the big ones spawn in the middle, which is pretty nice
dps will improve naturally as people get more comfortable with the encounter
depending on setup you can move over one dps sometimes, i.e. we had 3 arcanemages, who all used CDs on 2nd add, usually we also had a subrogue on their add but that wasnt needed for when they popped CDs, so he could start on the big one immediately
that sort of minmaxing will lead to faster progress, but thats really something thats very specific to each raid
so just keep an eye out for how the small adds are dying, and when adds arent dying its important to realise why that is. usually its not because the dps potential isnt there, but because a dps was late for whatever reason
so dont change any assignments as long as youre not sure about whether everyone really did all the dps they could
plain spruce
i think we have a good set up with 3 arcane and 2 locks, i think my job is the correct place for me, just execution. thankyou though
marble hemlock
yeah, its a very execution heavy fight
might just be that you dont have to change a thing, just do 20-40more pulls and the boss will die simply because everyone will do ~10% more dps because theyre more comfortable and play the boss a bit more smoothly
plain spruce
@marble hemlock would you recomend outlaw or sub for small add, im 380 on all
marble hemlock
got no experience with outlaw, we had 1 sub rogue on small add, and 1 assa on big one
sub is kinda inconsistent though, if you dont get atleast 1 evis crit, your damage is kinda meh
not sure how outlaw is by comparison
ember coral
Weird. I sim higher with a blight born infusion than a archive. Both 385
steep obsidian
is it activating your array?
or not
i mean
if its not thats understandable i guess
ember coral
Already got It from othervarchive
cloud spindle
Can you cloak oblit blast from mythrax or do you still get stacks?
Seemed like I was getting stacks still
inner pecan
you take no damage but still get stacks
cloud spindle
well rip I guess I'll never try cloaking that lmao
warm geode
bench?
strange hatch
anyone saw patchnotes for today? I believe I just downloaded a 90mb patch oO
jolly lodge
is there a threshold where clipping envenom is fine or should we generally try to avoid it unless energy would cap?
rugged jetty
can someone take a look at my logs and see what i am doing wrong
drifting elbow
i just envenom whenever i get 4+ CP
jolly lodge
hm i played sub exclusively last addon and just went for sin in bfa. before that clipping envenom was actually a loss unless u were at like <1s so just curious if it still matters or if it can even be ignored? maybe someone else also got some input on that?
still hare
It can be ignored tbh
formal sable
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fierce tinsel
hey guys, returning to rogue after a while, is it really that hard to get weapons ? -.-
marsh bloom
If you get 5 combo points from a mutilate crit do you use the TB or use Envenom then use TB?
safe matrix
marsh bloom
I mean't if I have like 2 combo points
then mut crits
what then
5 combo points TB or envenom?
TB increases nature by 30%
you waste a combo points
but even if you use Env then TB you still miht waste combo points cause the next 1-2 mutilates could crit and overcap you CP
willow pulsar
Simcraft actually shows two case scenario. Envenom then TB, and TB even on 5 cp and then envenom
So basically if something like this happens, i would just TB-envenom
Perfectly you aim for TB on 3 cp, you hope it crits so you have 5 cp and then envenom
vast forum
Or on 4 so you don't have to pray to rngesus