I mean the odd segue or two is fine as conversations are dynamic, but this shouldn't be offtopic lite as it has sometimes been in the past week or so
#assassination
safe matrix
marsh bloom
ex de
vivid bone
I would just wait for a mods opinion on this
vast forum
I mean, we were talking about on-topic stuff and very slowly drifted to off-topic... So my question is - where exactly is the line between the 2?
solid nova
If its not spec related, it doesnt belong in the spec channel
Its a very simple concept.
brisk forge
Idd, cant be hard to seperate ot and ot tbh.
vast forum
So while talking about assa traits, if someone compares ss to engi helm trait, and then the discussion goes into engineering, we should all just tab out to off-topic mid-discussion?
fallow estuary
That you never followed before u went ShadowBlade 
solid nova
If you want to discuss what's off topic and on topic you can DM me if you require clarity.
vast forum
Nah, i was just curious about this case and similar ones, what the course of action should be
solid nova
Again it's a fairly straight forward concept. If it's relevant to the spec, its fine. If it's not relevant, its not.
long adder
Should I run MA if I dont have any SS pieces?
vast forum
Sim
long adder
Also is SS still the best trait? Sites like bloodmallet put it at a mediocre rank
vast forum
Bloodmallet uses tb/ma as default talents
It still sims pretty high when running subt/exsang
long adder
@vast forum well they use sub for SS simming
vast forum
Ah my bad, still tb
daring imp
ilvl most likely will determine your best azerite pieces
long adder
Do you guys use Scent of blood for m+?
vast forum
SoB should be good on higher fort keys, but ss is king on lower ones
marsh bloom
Isn't SS better anyway?
faint harness
Yes but if you get an item with SoB its quite good in m+
vast forum
I reckon if trash starts to last a while, scent can be better
Don't quote me on that tho
faint harness
well its decent regardless since its not combo point reliant, you can spam 2-3 cp ruptures on less hp targets and still get 100% benefit from scent
i dont think its bad to have like 500+ agility on a medium pull
vast forum
Aye, for example the pack before blood boss in ad, you can fok-rupture all the mobs and have tons of agi
On high fortified they last a while anw
But ss is always a safe pick
Also, the question wasn't if it was better than ss, but whether or not it's good
faint harness
Yea i think you're the only one talking SS
vast forum
Shitty mentioned it being better
faint harness
i always swap to my 370 SoB shoulders when doing m+
even tho i have 385 archive
on average i will get more agility from SoB
vast forum
You also don't lose anything on death
faint harness
True, i dunno. I like the idea of stacking massive amounts of agility
tacit steppe
I run 2 SS and 1 Scent
lusty belfry
how am i supposed to aoe adds?
azure palm
toxic blade or exsang i do have SS
lusty belfry
like right now i SS garrote everything until cd and then CT into FoK rupture tab fok rupture tab
high siren
don't forget to envenom
plain spruce
with PB, if you mut 2 times and your at 5cp do you still pb or do you pb after 1 mut
solid nova
What
plain spruce
what im asking is, is it okay to PB at 5cp?
vast forum
U mean tb?
solid nova
You dont use PB, its percentage chance based on combo points
plain spruce
yes sorry, tired
lusty belfry
whats yall aoe rotation on like 5 mobs
proven vector
Garrote 3x CT with 5 then rupture with 5 points with vendetta and exs
Then fok and rupture tab
proven vector
Only when on 4cb and i need 5 for CT
lusty belfry
do you ct every 5cp if everything is ruptured?
vast forum
I think you're global capped with 5 ruptures so yea, only at 4cp
lusty belfry
icy veins says never envenom if you have ct
lusty belfry
i mean opinion vs numbers here
daring imp
why would you envenom with 5cp with 5 targets
faint harness
cus you get bigger chance to proc poisons
plain spruce
how is ct better then envenom 1-3 targets then?
faint harness
on fok
prime void
🤔
daring imp
and how big poison contribution is compared to ct?
faint harness
pretty big
you dont spam envenom
but i think its worht getting the buff up
depending on the situation
vast forum
Emphasis on think
daring imp
^
faint harness
yes
daring imp
i'd agree on smaller packs
faint harness
i have done the 0 envenom strat, i have tried envenom, i like to experiment.
faint harness
I havent found a huge dps loss/gain in either way
dire spoke
Kojiyama02/10/2018
Ok, as per discussions in #assassination earlier, have updated the APL logic for multi-targets somewhat with regard to Mutilate and Fan of Knives usage.
fraggyXd
1
General usage rules are now:
1) Use Mutilate at 2 Targets always, swapping targets with Mutilate briefly if needed to reapply poisons to the second target (with or without Double Dose)
2) Use Fan of Knives any time a target doesn't have Deadly Poison at 3 targets (or 3-4 with 2+ Ranks of Double Dose), otherwise use Mutilate on your primary target
3) Use Fan of Knives spam at 4+ targets (or 5+ with 2+ Ranks of Double Dose)
If there's any prio target in the grp, env is good between cts
daring imp
that's not the point being talked about, it's not cp generation, it's cp spending
vast forum
Otherwise i wouldn't bother much
faint harness
on huge packs with low hp mobs
sometimes i have tried to do a quick envenom
not 5 CP tho
because the mobs wont live long enough for the full env duration anyway
normally i personally just spam CT tho
faint harness
never not dps
dire spoke
I'm sorry
daring imp
have you guys tried wm m+ this week
high siren
no, and i won't
faint harness
I havent done m+ yet this week
prime void
eu or us
faint harness
EU
hot flume
If anyone is available for this and can give me a hand it would be nice
hot flume
Been applying what we said here about the sin rotation and results are getting better as you can see https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/42DMnNd9wJbxv8kq#fight=4
high siren
cyan stump
@marsh bloom you mean the array buff? no
hot flume
But are there things that I'm still missing or is it just my items that are not optimal and the fact that I had to drop debuffs on this fight that got my numbers a bit down ?
lone hamlet
At hero damage it at the top
sturdy python
That's with array stacks
sturdy python
If yo have array stacks you're pretty much always going to want at least one uldor trait. But I would always Sim yes
scenic marlin
My only raid piece is 340 chest, rest are 385 it still sims higher for raiding than a 370 chest for me so the stacks count for a lot
That's with 7 stacks
limber dew
@vestal wren when running subterfuge with no SS traits, what is the opner/
brave locust
you guys run hecticaddcleave for m+?
scenic marlin
For simming yes Schuster
vestal wren
No Shrouded Suffocation powers for Toxic Blade
Garrote
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Rupture
Vendetta
Mutilate
Toxic Blade
...
marsh bloom
Sims say you want to vanish/vendetta at the ame time
which one do we do?
we listen to the sim right?
@vestal wren
vestal wren
likely, i assume sims are more up to date
sullen pagoda
U usually only get 2 vanishes per fight so U can delay 2nd
brisk forge
cuz its hard to pool for TB? and fit in 2ish env? xD
stable oxide
On Fetid mythic, to get good logs 😛 what is better. using the pot during the bloodlust on the big add. or using it on fetid below 50%?
Considering I have all cooldowns in both situations
marsh bloom
no just for Exsg
well in like aoe fights
it can be hard
in like vectis
the timings can get fucky
stable oxide
So to ramp it up. What is better: all cooldowns + bloodlust + pot on normal add. Or all cooldowns + pot on fetid below 50% 😛
proper igloo
340 ss or 370 twist the knife for m+?
sullen pagoda
@stable oxide on boss ofc
And to not be put on small add duty that further away like me kms
faint harness
You should be put on big add
faint harness
envenom, crippling too
scarlet escarp
ok so is the 4 second window from EP actually better than MP
sturdy python
As of now yeah, can Sim to be sure
faint harness
they are not far apart
few %
for pvp or when you need slows its just utility with the 60% slow on crippling poison
scarlet escarp
ok quick question about sims cuz we have weapons again unlike legion...in the scaling part do i want to have weapon dps and off hand weapon dps selected
faint harness
if you want to see the potential upgrades of a new weapon sure
but its not really useful otherwise
scarlet escarp
alright i just wasn't sure its been a little while since i last bothered with it and don't remember those options being there last time
young acorn
Can i ask help about my char (with logs) directly on this channel?
sturdy python
You can just depends whether someone looks
young acorn
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/f7X3DY4NavQTVPyr/ - short story - im noob but i dont want to be - i think that i wasnt so bad bud logs showed me otherwise
thorn pasture
Blindside? @young acorn
honest needle
is there a haste cap now cause sims are telling me not to use haste anymore
high siren
lol, you had a good time on mythrax it seems
solid nova
There's no cap, its just devalued at a certain point where other stats provide a bigger dps increase. At least for ST.
honest needle
im at 22 haste
lone junco
@honest needle crit mastery haste depend on your traits. eventually mine all tied at 1.85 1.84 1.84 or something
honest needle
so im guessing 22 is the cap
desert heart
Should u refresh dots when current one are under the exsang effect?
lone junco
there is no cap, but it flexes in value at 23-28. I plotted mine a while back.
young acorn
@thorn pasture Blindside is so horrible that it's lowering my dps so much ? As i understand on icy-veins and wowhead it says it's not so bad talent.
thorn pasture
Just checked Quick
thorn pasture
Ur toxic blade usage is very low and ur second vendetta was questionable
Checked taloc Quick dunno about the others
lone junco
but it is a complex relationship. esp with MA/TB as an option, thats why you just pick your top 5 azerite kits, and select subterfuge/Ma. and Tb/Exang. and let the robot find your best kit.
young acorn
- more toxic blade (check) - better plan vendetta (check).
solid nova
@young acorn I cant see how Blindside is simming highest for that row of talents.
You're also tripple mutilating
thorn pasture
Just pressning toxic blade on cd is a good start eventually u wanna plan ahead so u can get of as many envenoms as possible in that window
solid nova
You're also not changing your talents at all throughout
Same talent setup for every boss
thorn pasture
Also u had 9 casts of poison knife dunno about that one
solid nova
Vectis: you didnt Vendetta till 23 seconds in either.
After a 5 second opener of nothing
honest needle
why is this 370 shoulders simming higher than 385 scent of blood https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9z9mYAG7DZnox3DbjE6Tdo
mossy hazel
Whelp, I got a couple blue parses last night, but that's officailly 3 weeks stuck on Zek...
honest needle
i thought scent of blood is better
young acorn
Im poison knifing if i cant melee boss
honest needle
and 15 ilvls higher
honest needle
so tidal surge is better ? 370 is better than 385
shouldnt the 15 ilvls make it better by itself
mossy hazel
That I have no idea about. Haha
solid nova
No
mossy hazel
Still seems off to me too
solid nova
As much as blizzard said ilvl would be king, its been established pretty much since launch, thats not the case.
honest needle
ya soemthing is wrong
ya but even pn blood mallet scent of blood is still close to tidal surge
so 15 ilvls should make the scent of blood better
mossy hazel
Yea, Personally I'd probably go with that SS piece you have
honest needle
that ss piece 370 also has blightborne infusion which is better but i use that piece for the ss for m+
honest needle
should i just make it blightborne infusion that ss makes it so i use 2 ss now for m+
is 1 ss for m+ ok or is 2 better
thorn pasture
@young acorn opener on taloc is very weird aswell, check the ravenholdt guide and start off with a good opener
mossy hazel
2 is probably better, but 1 is fine
young acorn
why you want to cast Envenom after Vanish ?
honest needle
wait u dont do vanish garrote anymore ?
mossy hazel
If you have MA you want to env
mossy hazel
Depends on your sims
solid nova
And the fights
mossy hazel
If you dn't have any SS for raiding, it's a good chance MA/TB might sim higher for you
solid nova
You're not going to PB all 8
mossy hazel
What fights do you CT Richard?
thorn pasture
Tb sims higher with ss alot of Times aswell
pastel sand
Exsang with full duration bleeds on cd but save when vendetta/vanish is coming up?
quick ice
MA/TB is like a worse version of Legion rogue
pastel sand
Ma/tb is a Feelsbadman with no kingsblade
mossy hazel
Feels more active with TB's lower CD time compared to Exsang, so you're doing something more often
Then the nice little crit spam is always fun
Exsang is more passive I feel
Which is fine too, I enjoyed playing Exsang. It was fun
quick ice
I'm not saying I don't like MA/TB, to be clear
daring imp
ma/tb is gr8
young acorn
thx for help guys, if got something to add tag me or pm
quick ice
its just Legion rogue -KB and with no execute (or lower vend CD)
solid nova
Not even M+?
mossy hazel
I don't, but I'm not pushing crazy keys either
solid nova
Fair
honest needle
u guys still use 3 ss for m+ or is 1 ss good enough for m+
mossy hazel
I'm lucky if I can get 3-4 keys in a week at this opint
daring imp
i run two, wanting to get a decent sob to run only 1x ss
'cuz i know i won't ever drop any ss from fetid/weekly chest
honest needle
so using 1 ss is all u really need for m+
thorn pasture
Wish ppl in pugs would play around sub just a little bit PepeHands
daring imp
it's not like there's a sole rule to follow, by using lower ilvl SS's you sacrifice healthpool which in return can screw you over, but the garrote damage is always friggin' great
given you push high keys of course
but SS's are always welcome in m+
the higher ilvl the better
thorn pasture
My 385 shoulders with twisted blade or w/e simmed lower than 340 ss in a m+ trash scenario
Its fucking busted
honest needle
wait so what are 2 best traits for m+ besides ss
thorn pasture
Pretty Much
honest needle
i wish my raid set archive would be good but my sims dont want me using archive it wants me using laser matrix even at a lower ilvl
sturdy python
Archive takes time to stack up so if your sim lengrh is too short it loses a ton of value
But I assume you mean 5 mins in which case that's irrelevant
vast forum
Tbh, a lot of mythic fights are longer than 5
quick ice
its about 50/50 on under 4min to over 7
vast forum
And archive gains a ton of value when last phase dps matters (mother, zek, mythrax, ghuun)
mossy hazel
We're up to 77 pulls on Zek... Can I recruit some of you guys to come carry us through it yet...?
stable oxide
Assassination rogues aren't particularly good on Zek'voz 😛
violet yew
Padlaw ftw
mossy hazel
Neither is my guild apparently
hot flume
On taloc, does the cos prevents the plasma discharge from dropping or not ?
next grotto
visual token
You drop no pools and it’s great
quick fog
On Mythic both of the debuffs are cloak able with no punish
faint harness
yep
i tend to cloak the blood debuff more
the other one doesnt require you to be out of range from the boss
quick fog
Yeah I run out pools and cloak the circle slow
faint harness
but why
faint harness
alright, if you're purely trying to maximize dps you should cloak the blood debuff tho
quick fog
It's just so a fuck fest cause we have like 9 melee
faint harness
9 melee monkaS
quick fog
None being WW 😭
daring imp
tank monks also apply the debuff right?
marble hemlock
main ice
Since bm is not top tier in m+. If you don't have a mw, would it be better to bring a monk over a rogue or a rogue will still be better ?
main ice
yeah I just main monk and have only a 360ilvl rogue, but the more I push, the more I see monk is worse than rogue in almost everything 😦
vast forum
Not almost
main ice
in m+ at last
vast forum
They're worse in everything
main ice
Yeah ok , better gear him up then
vast forum
Not in m+, not in raids (except that 1 mw for phys debuff), not in arena and not in rbg
Island expeditions maybe, if any1 still does those
torn coyote
Guyssssssssssss
quick question
about exang
should i delay it with trinket
or on cd?
i mean i should refresh my bleeds to use it ofc
but should i delay it with shrine of storm trinket
vast forum
I heard different opinions on that, i save mine for trinket
toxic spade
@vast forum one argument against that, Mythic zek having RoP and leg sweep helps.
toxic spade
But other than tiny things like that, WW is just a worse rogue
vast forum
Mw brings rop, aoe stuns aren't restricted to monks
toxic spade
Right but if you're comparing a DPS slot
toxic spade
Should do, but may not. I was just comparing rogue Vs WW in a melee DPS slot
vast forum
And you will want to have dhs anyway so there's your aoe stun
toxic spade
Ursols too
I mean, they do decent damage, but like 15-20% of that is sometimes Karma
vast forum
Still weaker than rogues with no unique utility
toxic spade
Same spot as enhance, there's just not much they bring that would make you want them over a rogue/DH/warrior etc
wheat zealot
Lmao windwalker is in a better place than enhance by far
faint harness
If you dont play the degenerate playstyle with karma ur not in a good place as WW
wheat zealot
So just play it then lol
If your not cheesing karma as a monk, youre doing it wrong
strange python
Karma cheese is the mechanic I hate the most in all of wow
mossy hazel
What's the chesse with karma
I don't play monk I'm not really familiar with the ability
Returns damage or something like that, right?
mossy ferry
When you Karma (with Good Karma talent) you get a shield equal to your max health. However much of that shield you can knock off before it fades (10s) is dealt in damage to the target.
strange python
You get a dot on your target based on the damage you take while karma is active
So it makes you try to use a defensive cooldown then take damage in order to do damage
mossy ferry
On fight with good damage patterns for it it will be 12-13% of your total damage.
strange python
^
mossy ferry
Sometime it leads to the monk dying because they miscalculate the incoming damage, but most agree regardless that it isn't healthy for the game.
I guess its fairly obvious I'm a monk. Rogue is my alt, and I was wondering how you go about figuring out which items would be the biggest upgrades?
For example, I'm 10 ilvl below Reapzz sim above, but sim 14.5k. I'm not sure if its stat allocation, or necklace levels or what.
quiet spruce
hey guys, for the past, like 3 weeks, ive always had TB sim more than exsang, and it doesn't look like exsang will beat TB anytime soon, both for ST and MT, but yet i find most top rogues with exsang. It blows my mind that they have exsang simming higher for them than TB (huge difference between exsang and TB for me ~1.5). My question is, how come top rogues (people top in warcraftlogs i mean) use exsang, are you sure it's simming higher for them than tb?
radiant flame
do they/u use a galecaller? thats what the dif makes for me atleast
quiet spruce
i think 50% do, and i just got my gcb yesterday, and again with sim, TB is still higher
vast forum
Galecaller + ss traits are what makes exsang viable
quiet spruce
my higher SS trait gear is 370 chest, but my DD 385 sims higher, so i dont see my self using any SS traits
vast forum
I personally haven't simmed myself for tb cuz i have 2x 385 ss and a 375 gcb
vast forum
I can't imagine myself simming higher with tb until 2x385 dd or ehatever best combo is for tb
I also like exsang more playstyle-wise so i won't be changing anytime soon
royal lantern
you use it on the target that should die fast
main ice
Ok priority target is the only thing to think about ?
vast forum
If no prio target, use on random target for energy
main ice
ok thanks
mossy hazel
You guys bother spreading rupture on the little warriors on Zek voz
royal lantern
i didnt
just keeped rupture up on zekvos/nerubian shithead
idk about others
they are not long enough alive too waste multiple CP and gcd for rupture imo
mossy hazel
I haven't either. I don't feel like I'm having energy issues there, was more interested in whether the extra damage is useful
I'm just trying to figure out what the fuck I can do to get my guild past this fucker...
royal lantern
garrote and rupture on zekvos and the nerubian should give you enough energy back too use stuff on the gcd?
main ice
So you don't use CT on zek voz ? (I don't raid as rogue)
mossy hazel
I don't. I don't like how CT feels and it's really just not useful outside of warriors
royal lantern
for me it was: keep bleeds up on zekvos/nerubian, stun the nerubians on cd cus of prey on the weak, spam ct until the warriors are low hp
main ice
Yeah ok, they're up too little time to make CT worth I guess ?
royal lantern
but tbf, my guild had another rogue that focused hard on bursting the nerubian down while i was spamming ct, dont know about your group
mossy hazel
Ideally yea, they shouldn't be up long enough
stable oxide
@torn coyote go TB 😛
then your cooldowns well always allign!
With your OP daggers!!!
hasty crater
I did use CT on zekvoz, feel like ur a bit useless otherwise in those phases
stable oxide
Btw guys, I have 2 SS traits, yet TB sims higher then Exs..... how
hasty crater
you have galecaller ?
stable oxide
385 and 340 xD
hasty crater
I sim higher with 1 SS 385 with exsanguinate
hasty crater
I have galecaller tho, think might be why
somber dock
Hello, all new to Assasination here. I got a question regarding DoTs and offensive CD's like Vendetta. I can't seem to figure out if the increased damage effect is applied to existing DoTs or you have to reapply them to make use of the increased damage?
- Wondering the same regarding the "Elaborate Planning" talent.
Thank you all
lament dove
both make your current dots upgrade, so you don't have to worry about that
mossy hazel
vendetta is dynamic, will buff existing dots
somber dock
Great! Thank you. Then i gotta change my gameplay! 😄
mossy hazel
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
mossy hazel
Bathroom reading ^
somber dock
Does the same go for Trinkets? E.g., i've got a trinket that increases Agi.
silk sundial
Do you pool energy for ep burst windows? Or do you only pool energy for tb windows?
somber dock
- Or do you have to reapply DoTs for trinkets to take effect?
mossy hazel
trinkets should also be dynamic I believe
lament dove
no, you don't have to
mossy hazel
In tht they (mostly) should effect existing dots
somber dock
Dynamic as in no reapplication needed?
silk sundial
Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was efficient to pool for ep and finish as its about to fall off
somber dock
Okay thank you!
hasty crater
You dont have to reapply
silk sundial
Do that in small windows throughout the fight
mossy hazel
I genuinely don't know much about playing around EP
somber dock
Jeez i've been doing it wrong for ages then. I'm too used to sub 😮
mossy hazel
I really just want EP to go away
So I don't have to constantly think "Yea I should probably be paying more attention to that..."
silk sundial
I like it, adds a little more depth to the class
I'll just look at time line logs of top sin rogues to imitate what they do 😛
silk sundial
How much should you aim to pool for that and tb? Running vigor
low lodge
Is there a Weak Aura that can show if your target has the normal garrote or the one buffed from SS?
pearl meteor
Yea
low lodge
Couldn't find any on wago
pearl meteor
And its rly up to u on amt id say 100 ish rough estimate @silk sundial
For tb idk
I dont play tb atm
versed finch
Anyone on here run master assassin with no SS in uldir?
low lodge
Thanks
hasty crater
You can just use that specfic garrote part and delete the rest of it
if you dont like it
stable oxide
@silk sundial this can be really tricky though. Preferably you want to pool as much as possible for TB. But you cant wait to long cause you don't want your garrote/rupture to run off during the TB buff.
And you don't want to reaply them during TB
brave ore
@versed finch here
hasty crater
Use TB on cldwn, u want it to line up with ur second vendetta, using it on cldwn enables that, its alright to not get the perfect TB every time
silk sundial
Better to use on cd than to hold it for energy, got it. Lots of micro managing to get things to line up but I'm ok with that
crisp steppe
@versed finch im trying that out right now MA without SS
hasty crater
lining up TB with vendetta isnt hard tho, if u use it on cldwn it will come back at pretty much same time
silk sundial
Been playing the spam fest that is sub rogue for uldir. Switching to sin for vectis.
crisp steppe
you miss out on energy regen during TB but its probably worth
hasty crater
Sin seems stronger on most fights tho, if ur swapping alrdy for vectis try to do so for most bosses aswell 😛
ionic blade
so no TB pooling but still should pool for envenom ?
silk sundial
Bad st traits and stats atm. Sub Sims about 500 dps higher.
hasty crater
when u use tb try to have 3-4 or even 5 cp and then TB so u can envenom immediately after
solid nova
Not 5, no.
hasty crater
even at 5, better to TB then envenom than envenom then TB
ionic blade
doenst it crit and u can overcap 2 ?
solid nova
No, its never better to deliberately over cap CPs.
hasty crater
rather not, still better than envenom then TB
@solid nova But it is... overall more dps
hasty crater
Don't have figures myself, this discussion was held 2 days ago already and some1 had the figures to show
solid nova
If you've got figures to show thats true, then I'll happily stand corrected
hasty crater
the APL uses TB at 5 aswell
crisp steppe
@solid nova Thanks for clarifying 😃 appreciate that. wasn't sure about that one. What about being on 4 combopoints and applying garrote. if it crits you wasted a CP.
hasty crater
Makes sense tho tbh, u want as much envenoms in TB as possible, better to overcap 1 CP than missing a envenom for TB
mossy hazel
"Wasting" cp from crits isn't something you can or should plan around
It's going to happen and you can't control that
solid nova
You cant anticipate crits
crisp steppe
you plan around it with mutilate
hasty crater
Like i said, u want as much envenoms as possible in TB, makes complete sense to overcap 1 CP for an extra envenom during TB
solid nova
Run a custom APL to show thats better
And i'll believe you
Otherwise, no
I see nothing in chat history
Feelycraft isnt an answer to anything
mossy hazel
I tend to TB at 2 then quick mut. If it crits it crits, but I'm not intentionally overcapping
hasty crater
This discussion was held alrdy 2 days ago, up to you to believe me on this result, thruth is that yes the APL showed it was better
solid nova
Show me?
verbal mantle
/summon @vestal wren
mossy hazel
One does not simply summon a shadowblade!
verbal mantle
i did
mossy hazel
I see that
crisp steppe
fuu casts vanish
vestal wren
whats the question?
verbal mantle
Anw I tend to be agree with Richard
vestal wren
iirc no
solid nova
As an overal dps gain
vestal wren
letme quick sim
vestal wren
verbal mantle
vestal wren
you will finish on 4+ cp with vigor not 5+ so i made it 4+
jolly lodge
quick question - is clipping envenom fine or should we wait for it to drop before the next finisher (unless energy would cap)?
crisp steppe
that extends to garrote as well? if im on 4CP I should finish and then garrote in other to prevent potential waste of CP @vestal wren ?
mossy hazel
No because then you're trying to plan around crits again
crisp steppe
I don't think thats an answer
if I have 99% crit chance I plan around crits
it depends on where the line is roughly
vestal wren
tb on 5+ makes more loss (1.6%)
solid nova
@hasty crater ^^
vestal wren
you refresh garrote if it needs to be refreshed
crisp steppe
so for TB you don't TB on 4 cps because its possible you would crit and waste a combopoint
so I assume the same is the case for garrote assuming you don't waste uptime on it. unless im misunderstanding
vestal wren
you just use it on cd (assuming rupture is up)
crisp steppe
aye
hasty crater
@solid nova Apparently results last time werent well executed by that person, my bad.
solid nova
No sweat blud
verbal mantle
fuu is your go to guy
solid nova
Fuu is simbot3000
brave ore
345 galecaller or 370 frenetic corpuscle? without SS trait
hasty crater
Can't rly argue with his sims no.
thorn crater
sim it
crisp steppe
its always great when people just admit they were maybe wrong. its so hard sometimes on the internet @hasty crater
thorn crater
though its prolly galecaller
crisp steppe
good on u m8
crisp steppe
aye
thorn crater
i also wrote offtopic btw but can someone help me with a blind macro i have in mind?
i need to make a modifier that targets only focus target
but i dont know how to write it
hasty crater
Was each of us defending his/or her point, fuu proved his part to be the right one so
crisp steppe
/cast [mod:shift, @focus] Silencing Shot; Silencing Shot
example from googling idk if works
vestal wren
you can look at the sim, if you have potential improvements feel free to ask
steep obsidian
/cast [@focus,exists,harm,nodead]kick; [@target,harm] kick; [@targettarget,harm] blind should work
that will cast if you dont have a focus too
on your target
thorn crater
ohhh so that works on normal target without modifier and on focus target with the modifier button?
and works with kick as well?
steep obsidian
it should
thorn crater
thank you bud srsly appreciate it
steep obsidian
i havent tested it recently
thorn crater
thank you aimbotter as well
steep obsidian
replace the kick with blind where i didnt replce it
thorn crater
but how would i add the modifier?
like i want to have a focus target on and use based on what i prefer
crisp steppe
thats the one I linked I think?
steep obsidian
that one should blind your focus and if no focus blind your target
but just doing focus is simple
thorn crater
ye not exactly what i want
i want to add a modifier key
that decides
which one it gets used on
steep obsidian
ahh
thorn crater
i think i need to combine what u sent and what aimbotter sent
steep obsidian
im not the best with macros someone wrote that one for me years ago and it worked ok for me in the past
i generally just do mouseovers for kick and blind and shit nowadays
and rupt
normal spear
hi. where can i read more about "energy pooling"? when should i pool energy and for what?
crisp steppe
not sure what you want exactly. all I know is you said this "i need to make a modifier that targets only focus target"
thorn crater
/cast [mod:alt, @focus,exists,harm,nodead] kick; [@target,harm] kick; [@targettarget,harm] kick
something like this?
or do i need to add the modifier on each parenthesis
crisp steppe
/cast [mod:shift, @focus] Blind; Blind
when you hold shift on the key you put the macro on it will focus blind. else it does regular blind. I think
not sure what else you want
thorn crater
thank you
crisp steppe
hope that works for u
steep obsidian
cant you make really simple macros to target specific players in arena
i know i see arena players with like 5 different target marcros
thorn crater
this arena1 2 3 automatically assigns to players?
solid nova
Yeah, based on your arena frame
thorn crater
so 1 2 3 are oppos or ur own team?
crisp steppe
party1 2 3 is ur own
solid nova
^
thorn crater
so basically i need to make 3 macros for the 3 targets and add them on different keys
unless u can add them all to one macro with different modifiers?
like mod alt arena 1 mod shift arena 2 and normal arena 3?
does sth like that make sense?
crisp steppe
probably possible yeah
quick fog
I'm pretty sure there is a "cast focus target" hotkey that you can set up in the basic settings.
Instead of macroing everything
faint harness
Does it have any logic?
Like can you assume that arena 2 is always the healer
or is it random placement
mossy hazel
If you can do a if mod focus else target macro, I would assume you can do if mod1 else if mod2 else if mod3
thorn crater
i dont trust myself with mouse over
could be out of range
could be different things
mossy hazel
I always fuck up mouse over
thorn crater
never been able to use it
solid nova
Well you hover over the nameplate and press the keybind 😄
Then that sets the focus
Then focus macros apply as normal
thorn crater
wait how do u make mouseover focus macro?
solid nova
Or you could literally make a /setfocus macro.
Click the unit frame
Click the keybind
Then you're sorted 😄
Plenty of options to suit preference
thorn crater
im focusing target via right lcick on gladius
i honestly feel like i dont have enough hotkeys mb cause im doing sth wrong
this is what my screen looks like including my hotkeys. i feel like i have fucked up somewhere along the years
i would really appreciate some constructive feedback
high siren
like any rogue
faint harness
Can you press 7-9 reliably
mossy hazel
I can barely reach 6 reliably without fat fingering something else
faint harness
Your keybinds should make it easier for you
thorn crater
im not using anything after 6
faint harness
not make you stretch all over the keyboard
thorn crater
im comfortable up to 6 for evasion and Y for vanish
the rest is just there to fill the void
mossy hazel
DAmn, stretching to Y
mossy hazel
Not for me apparently. Lol
random scroll
bind alt 1 2 3
thorn crater
for example alt isnt helpful to me i feel awkward
mossy hazel
Yea, my typical binds are 1-6, alt 1-6, shift 1-6
thorn crater
cause i have to leave "w,a,d"
random scroll
alt 6 🤔
faint harness
I use shift, alt and CTRL modifiers
mossy hazel
Yea, alt 6 diesn't get used mouch
random scroll
you must like those hackers in animes
mossy hazel
I use ctrl for rare use binds as well
random scroll
look like*
thorn crater
btw how would i go in makign a mouseover focus target macro
iu know i need to add [target=mouseover]
but on what?
/setfocus target?
random scroll
i added a raid marker for m+ purposes aswell
mossy hazel
It's not pretty but it works for me
random scroll
/script SetRaidTarget("mouseover",7);
/focus mouseover
thorn crater
i tried bartender i couldnt use ANYTHIGN
random scroll
so just /focus mouseover
weak socket
I used default UI for yeaaars... I just config'd Bartender two nights ago.
thorn crater
@random scroll what is the 7 for in the macro?
random scroll
that's my sap 🤔
thorn crater
sap is 4
random scroll
i only bound S to my tanks since ye
but honestly there's more than enough keybinds imo
like reachable keybinds or practical ones nowadays
except if yo'ure doing arena
arena1 2 3 macros for all ccs is annoying to do without a naga
or whatever mouse with enough buttons
but for pve it's fine
thorn crater
ye i dont wanna do arena 123
i dont htink i can pull it off
so i just want the modifier blind
for normal target and focus target
/cast [mod:alt, @focus] Blind; Blind so this works?
without modifier it casts blind on the normal target?
random scroll
#showtooltip Spell
/cast [nomodifier:shift] Spell
/cast [modifier:shift, target=focus] Spell
i'm using this
i don't think it casts the spell without the nomodifier line
random scroll
man but don't assume genders nowadays you can get into trouble from what i've heard
thorn crater
lol
mossy hazel
I just assumed you're all non-binary, fluid trans persons of native origin
Or Elves
Sorry, way off topic, I'm done
bold citrus
/cast [nomod] Spell; [mod:Shift, @focus] Spell; [mod: alt] spell2 etc etc
More consolidated form of the above macro
You rarely have to type the /cast 2 times in the same macro now
Unless you're binding trinkets or spells off gcd
north epoch
Hey guys, I had a question about elaborate planning. How often does it have to be up? Does it have to he up 100%, and if so is it worth not using envenom at 4 combo points?
mossy hazel
So you could potentially use 1 button for 3 different spells?
bold citrus
On my lock and shammy I do exactly this
random scroll
yes you can
random scroll
it's the equivalent of binding modifier+key
like alt+1 etc
but with less buttons yes
(on the bars)
thorn crater
ok so u could potentially use this iwth arena 1 2 3?
that macro
for kick, blind shs etc?
bold citrus
/cast [nomod] agony; [mod: shift, @arena1] fear; [mod: alt, @arena1] spell lock; [mod: ctrl] Healthstone
mossy hazel
I so I could condense my defensives into 1 bar button, alt = CoS, shft = feint
bold citrus
This is one of my lock binds
Bound to 1
Then 2 has corruption with the fear and spell lock to arena 2
And 3 is unstable affliction with fear and kick to arena 3
On the rogue I only have kidney 123 and focus kick, blind, step
I don't find myself needing to kick anything but the target and focus
thorn crater
can this work?
/cast [nomod] Blind; [mod: shift, @warped tendon1]; [mod: alt, @warped tendon2]; [mod: ctrl, @warped tendon3]
bold citrus
Yes
random scroll
y
thorn crater
is it spelled correctly?
ah so that has to be added
can it not be done in a single parenthesis?
bold citrus
/cast [nomod] Blind; [mod: shift, @Arena1] Blind; [mod: alt, @Arena2]; [mod: ctrl, @Arena3] and so on
random scroll
no you have to add a spell on each line
bold citrus
On phone so editing is aids
bold citrus
It can be applicable to pve for multi target stuff but yes this case specifically is PvP
wet yew
So others can profit from it aswell
thorn crater
/use [nomod] Blind; [mod: shift, @warped tendon1;mod:alt, @warped tendon2;mod: ctrl, @warped tendon3] Blind
sth like this
bold citrus
No
That won't work
/cast [nomod] Blind; [mod: shift, @Arena1] Blind; [mod: alt, @Arena2] Blind; [mod: ctrl, @Arena3] Blind;
thorn crater
/cast [nomod] Blind; [mod: shift, @warped tendon1] Blind; [mod: alt, @warped tendon2] Blind; [mod: ctrl, @warped tendon3] Blind
bold citrus
This is the exact macro for what you need
Someone called arena is getting a lot of notifications XD
thorn crater
rofl ikr
maiden edge
@north epoch I could be wrong but I don't think you can keep EP up 100% without sacrificing more DPS than you'll get. Basically what I do is just hold my envenom until it's either right about to fall off or I am close to energy cap. You never want to energy cap but if you hold off that way, you get more EP uptime without sacrificing potential damage
mossy hazel
Oh my god. Lmao
daring cave
Rofl
thorn crater
hahahahaha
warped tendon
Going to have to report for harassment 
sturdy python
Probably waiting to be able to make this joke lol
warped tendon
Believe it or not that's the first time it's happened, and no, it's just a handle I use in other games
trim frost
what is the best point to use Dooms howl trinket? After vanish, garrote, vendetta or does it not really matter?
warped tendon
I macro it with Vendetta
It would be ideal to pop it in stealth probably to have the full ramp up for your envenoms, maybe? But it'll knock you from stealth so you can't do that
north epoch
@maiden edge hmm, I don't know what I'm doing wrong then. No matter what I do I cant seem to break through this dps barrier. I sim myself and it says I should be doing around 15k dps but I cant hold 13k.
vestal wren
@thorn crater @bold citrus might use @name instead of pinging random ppl
warped tendon
It's no biggie, changed my nick
I was just giving them a little shit, it's all good
Well, I think it would still @ me anyway but it's fine!
thorn crater
it was an honest mistake
vestal wren
it does, ye its just easy to avoid with using `
thorn crater
i didnt even realise i was tagging someone
maiden edge
@north epoch I mean, you're probably simming patchwerk with full raid buffs/pre-pots/etc. In a real world fight, you won't ever hit that sim number
But you should log your parses and compare them to top parses from sin rogues and compare uptimes and spell counts
fresh ginkgo
Havent played rogue for a few weeks now why is doom fury like number one trinket now?
lunar tangle
im having problems with stats can anyone tell me atleast how much haste i should have for m+ ?
half patrol
how accurately does SS sim on patchwerk? trying to compare running 1ss vs none in raid
north epoch
@maiden edge thanks mate
stiff niche
yo guys i have a problem on aoe dps i think.. this is my rotation: 3 garrote with SS, CT, FOK until 5 cp RUPTURE, FOK until 5 cp ENVENOM, FOK until 5 cp CT. I run 2 Archive and 1 ss
And a lot of time i dont have energy for nothing
fossil agate
Spread more ruptures
hollow stone
Yea. Try using more rupts spread for energy regen over using env in an aoe situation
wheat zealot
You need at least 3 ruptures out for fok spam
fossil agate
And only envenom on 3+ if ct and rupture dont need refreshed
stiff niche
So at this point rupture il better then envenom for more energy and more spam right? Like 3 cp rupture or better go for 5 cp?
wheat zealot
Depends how long mobs will live for
And if youre using exsan you would probably want a 5 for the prio target
Then just fok r fok r
fossil agate
To start i normally use however many cp one fan gets me per mob
unique axle
Isnt spammimg ct good?
fossil agate
Then if mobs live long enough start spreading 5cp
fringe oxide
The envenom buff isn’t trivial for AoE damage. I wouldn’t recommend focusing solely on rupture.
The 4 garrote opener and one rupture should provide enough energy for consistent FoK/envenom spam for most AoE situations.
stiff niche
So ty all for the tips ❤ anyway is an only my impression or this Week we have less m+? I mean shitty affix
lofty sand
I'm not sure you'd have enough energy with only 1 rup and 3 garrotes
feral sentinel
hey quick question is anybody here that can take a look at my logs and tell me what im doing wrong
(im a mythic raider and switched to rogue in BfA and just perform realy bad and dont know why)
fringe oxide
Should be 4 garrotes, not 3, now that the SS bug is dead.
lofty sand
true, even then
feral sentinel
opener is not the problem im usually top at the first min but i fall off pretty hard
lofty sand
but I do agree with you that people often neglect envenom
fringe oxide
If the aoe pack is living longer than the duration of your opening garrotes (which is a pretty long time), then you should definitely start prioritizing a second and third rupture.
Or if you can afford it, vanish and regarrote 4 targets.
feral sentinel
here is our vectis kill from yesterday if anyone wants to take a look
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/W9YFP8dght4Jm1bA/#type=damage-done&fight=15
desert pelican
On my fk vectis im logged like green because of fckd up mechanics everywhere -_-
mossy hazel
@feral sentinel Your opener should include Ven/Van right at the beginning (at least according to the APL on my sims and I run similar build to you)
G Mut4 R Ven Van TB
I see quite a few TBs where you got 1 or even no Envenoms as well
That'll hurt
feral sentinel
so vanish and reaply garote right after ven ?
mossy hazel
You don't have SS, right?
feral sentinel
SS?
zealous scarab
https://puu.sh/BN74X/8c5a2caeb4.png, which one would you guys use for m+ ? already got 1x SS apart from head
mossy hazel
Oh, but you do have sub, nevermind
feral sentinel
oh no i dont
mossy hazel
I misread your talents
loud kelp
guys is shrouder suffocation really that good? top dmg dealers always use it, but bloodmallet and raidbot dont say that, help please =x
shrouded*
mossy hazel
It is in multi target situations, yes
Lots of people are forgoing it in raid now for DD, but keeping even lower ivl subs for M+
Best bet though is to sim yourself
See what's best for you
visual token
Those charts use different talents than the ones using SS
They aren’t accurate for SS build
feral sentinel
@mossy hazel and what is the best way to use TB just wait for full energy so i can fit 2 envenoms ?
mossy hazel
YOu don't need full energy, butyou're going to want to pool a little
Never let energy cap
visual token
Pool as it’s coming off cooldown so you’re prepared for it
mossy hazel
Should be able to get at least 2 envs in there
feral sentinel
so i want to reapply Rup befor TB aswell if it is like 10S left ?
loud kelp
complete first set of points with tb, and u should e able to use it twice
mossy hazel
Yea, TRY not to reapply rupture during
It does look like you were doing that a lot too, more towards the end of TB
warped hazel
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
feral sentinel
thanks for the quick help ill try to work on that
restive storm
hello guys i have a question
should i keep 1 SS traits for the opener ?
trait*
without the +2 cp it feels so clunky
mossy hazel
Nothing wrong with keeping an SS if that's how you like it
Definitely possible to do more with other traits though
wheat zealot
Feelycraft is not acceptable here
mossy hazel
I mean what do your other traits sim at?
How much are yo ulosing by sticking with SS
As in what would you replace your SS with
clear harbor
quick question, is it worth using LM in m+? i got a 370 head with LM or i use a 340 head with SS (got 2 pieces of SS)
mossy hazel
Sim it
royal lantern
lm tends too ninjapull stuff
mossy hazel
That one's tough
royal lantern
in m+
restive storm
i'll sim it realquick
mossy hazel
Oh really? I had no idea that was a thing @royal lantern
clear harbor
i thought they fixed this shit with the pulling
silk sundial
Had it happen a few times last week in WM
novel moss
When in high M+ keys with fort like this week is it always best to run crimson tempest over poison bomb?
In a general sense
wheat zealot
Yes
Only dungeon where PB is better imo, is Kings rest
Everything else, ct all day
novel moss
Okay thanks 😃
wheat zealot
Also depends on your group comp
hollow mica
So how do u AoE with CT? If u don't mind explaining
gusty yoke
Do you guys pop GC on cd?
wheat zealot
If you run with like a dh and frost mage for example, ct might not be worth
@gusty yoke i do
restive storm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qzRXW76YF6MG5TpiFtUgEK With One SS trait
gusty yoke
But i feel like i waste energy then
restive storm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uovcQjBZr8dWo3KDJ6QpU1 without SS traits with MA
do i fight the clunkyness for 100 dps ? 😄
haughty lily
I usually apply it after I garrote as many as I can then just use CT on cd
haughty lily
I move on with my rotation in between CT
restive storm
@mossy hazel what do u think ?
gusty yoke
nah i would stick with SS if its only 100dps
gusty yoke
yeah so you do he same as me
restive storm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uovcQjBZr8dWo3KDJ6QpU1 and this one is WITHOUT ss and MA
gusty yoke
dont you feel like you waste energy with GCB ven and exs running though?
wheat zealot
Nah, i mean yeah if you waste even a single global inside exsan you are probably overcapping
Mechanics can cause that to happen ofc, but otherwise no i dont waste energy from it
gusty yoke
guess its just going to be something i have to live with untill i get used to the energy regen during it
wheat zealot
Your regen will be off the charts during exsan, 100% ep uptime during that period is a must
wheat zealot
^ same, reminiscent of playstyle with mantle
slow hemlock
can someone explain me how Meticulous Scheming is working ? 😃
restive storm
i'll try it
wheat zealot
Imo they shouldve made it either 100% for 3 sec, or 50% for 5 sec. But maybe it wouldve been to strong idk
restive storm
with MA should i use TB before vanish envenom or after ?
i feel like a tb crit does a lot of dmg tbh
mossy hazel
SIM and check the APL because mine was different than the guide
mossy hazel
Mine is ven van th mut env
wheat zealot
I use tb before vanish personally
spice surge
TB before is better
mossy hazel
APL says otherwise for me
spice surge
If you dont believe me you can search for the discussion from a couple of days ago here, michee posted comparing sims
wheat zealot
Has the apl always been correct though?
spice surge
Depending on how frequent the people maintaining the default apl updates
Typically they dont always update for a simple 0.05% upgrade
Or well, some dont
mossy hazel
So your saying ven, mut, tb, van
spice surge
When its not "in season", ie during a new patch
lost wharf
I just "accidently" tried out Poison Bomb in a Freehold 10 and I was thinking during the run, that it's proccing quite decent
It did 4%..
To put it into comparison: Heed my Call did 4.9%
fringe oxide
Keep in mind that you can't directly compare Poison Bomb damage to Crimson Tempest damage on meters, as one is free bonus damage and the other requires energy and CP.
For every CT you cast, you've lost envenom or rupture damage.
mossy hazel
Yea I feel like PB isn't optimal in FH. There's a lot of movement in that trash that could easily move you out of a pb proc
fringe oxide
With both envenom and rupture having secondary benefits to your rotation as well, with poison proc % and energy regen respectively.
mossy hazel
But on the other hand, there are large packs of baby mobs too, right?
Things that really won't be great for CT?
fringe oxide
That's why you see PB being dominant in top logs for almost every encounter, with it still showing up occasionally even in fights tailor made for CT.
In other words, for fights tailor made for PB you see it dominating top parses. For fights tailor made for CT, you still see a mix.
pulsar lake
Are there any number somewhere about when its worth it to refresh rupture / garrote early to exang? Is it better to refresh to full duration right before exang comes off cd? Or are the extra globals / wasted CPs not worth it? Also how long is it worth waiting for vendetta with exang off cd roughly? Has anyone done some math somewhere?
fading spade
So i have an interesting topic. MP vs EP. It sims within 1% for me 0.6 to be exact. Thoughts? Running currently 1 twist, 1 archive and blightborne infusion
mossy hazel
@fading spade If you don't have an SS it might be worth trying out MA. I like it with TB honestly
fading spade
I use MA. I meant for tier 1 master poisoner vs elaborate planning
mossy hazel
Ohh, MP, I misread that, sorry
I was looking at that today too actually, I think I'm in the same boat; ~0.5-1% difference
But like I said, I like MA so I'm going to stick with that.
silk sundial
Mp would be easier to play with. You don't have to worry about uptime
mossy hazel
Yea I was just about to say, MP would be much more passive play. It's just going to buff things you're already doing, there's no additional playstyle to it
glass palm
im leveling assa rogue atm, just switched from sub, idk if im bad or smth but on dungeons i am so energy starved
cant keep up with the garrotes n stuff
glass palm
116
strange python
sin is the worst levelling spec
royal lantern
you dont spam on gcd as sin rogue anyway
mossy hazel
116 is a ROUGH level. I felt like I hit a brick wall once I lost my leggo bonuses