With SS/Subf you should go Gar rup Gar Exs
#assassination
quick fog
desert vault
oh ok, let it drop
shy axle
Are you guys spamming CT in myth+ or just maintaining while doing evenom ? Read it quite often here, everyone says it different. Incy veines guide just says skip eve usage if you have CT chosen
wording is quite poor tbh
wispy quest
@vocal harbor
apm and variance are unrelated.
less variance means only that the distribution of dps is more ofter near the mean value (the one you see on simc).
distribution because the rng give you every time different outcomes so all them span over a numerical interval.
i hope my english is enough understandable D:
opaque grotto
I’ve been playing with 1x poison wire with TB/MA, it actually doesn’t seem bad. It lets you get the Env > Mut > Env inside vanish every time
desert vault
and generally speaking SS/Exsang is going to be a lot more bursty in terms of damage overtime than pretty much any TB build would be?
opaque grotto
Yea SS/Exsang has fat openers but TB builds are more consistent dps
pearl meteor
@shy axle 6+ targets spam ct over env
opaque grotto
Exsang is great for priority dmg though
vocal harbor
ohhh well that makes sense @wispy quest because outlaw can roll multiple 5 buffs in one fight, and pull much higher than the mean simc dps
pearl meteor
5 is situational
vocal harbor
that also explains why enchance is up there, because of it's procs
crisp steppe
@opaque grotto yeah agree on poison wire. whenever possible I aim to refresh garrote so I have mutilate critchance going into toxic blade, especially with vanish for double env like u say
shy axle
@pearl meteor thx
ruby pelican
So, anyone using blightborne infusion? I got one at 385 and I’m not sure if it’s better than 340 SS in mythic+? Other 2 traits are SS
pearl meteor
I swear this gets asked every 12 hours
ruby pelican
Proc rate seems to be around 20%
desert vault
so weird this one log i'm looking at on Taloc a guy is constantly casting Rup > Vend instead of other way around, top 100 parse
opaque grotto
Why would you cast rupture after vendetta
desert vault
I dunno? Isn't that the opener? Vend > Mut > Rup?
opaque grotto
For which build?
wispy quest
it isnt only the roll.
even few layers of rng could mean high variance for example.
for example legion sub was more or less higher variance than assa because a lot of the damage was in the sd evis, so lucky crit rolls in these windows had a lot meaning.
meanwhile assa having a fuckton of rng like poison bomb, env crits, rupture buff and so on was more "stable" around his median value because each random "balance" eachother
desert vault
SS+Exsang
crisp steppe
no
pearl meteor
Yikes
wheat zealot
Grgmrvexsan
opaque grotto
Yeah the accepted opener is G R G V M R Exsang
But I don’t think the vendetta placement makes much of a difference
pearl meteor
Rupture after does
vocal harbor
i see. thank you so much @wispy quest that clears things up nicely
pearl meteor
For exsang
desert vault
I was just looking through logs and this one I found with 2x SS, same traits, trinkets, ilvl, etc was doing Rupture before Vend in opener and afterwards and aswell
opaque grotto
Yes you want to press rupture right before exsang probably but I’m sure the difference is minimal
inner pulsar
You should make that your toon name @wheat zealot
daring imp
@wispy quest 12m death from above 
inner pulsar
Grgmrvexsan
daring imp
damn, that was a fun time on kj
wispy quest
nah, 7.2 assa best iteration evah
wheat zealot
A1 name
wispy quest
i miss so much CD juggling T_T
daring imp
@ruby pelican i am using 355/345 SS & 385 blightborne, its uptime is great, over the entire dungeon, like 25~30% ( which is a bit more because this details! timer doesn't take into account downtime afaik )
wispy quest
blizz give me back CD juggling T_T
clever jackal
anyone in here good at going over logs and can possible help me?
clever jackal
I seem to be getting alot less mutilates then other rogues I compare myself to. and idk if it's a me sucking thing or a haste thing
pearl meteor
Whats your haste
clever jackal
started out in raid last night as 960 but ended at like 1100
daring imp
what
pearl meteor
Ye that’s fine
clever jackal
the people I'm comparing myself to all seem to have over 1500. is there a soft haste cap around that range?
wheat zealot
@daring imp ive been using 385 bb in m+ too and it feels amazing. Having >50% crit for 25% of the dungeon is pretty solid
pearl meteor
Its his haste rating
daring imp
oh
clever jackal
dont have that yet. I'm unlucky when it comes to raid gear lol
pearl meteor
Welp theres ur issue for haste
clever jackal
lol
pearl meteor
The rest is just dot uptime
daring imp
if you think reorigination array isn't going to make that much of a difference, remember that 7 stacks gives you 525 of highest secondary ...
clever jackal
so that 500 haste I'm missing is just that stupid trait I dont have yet
daring imp
for raiding, ye
pearl meteor
Assuming you have 7 stacks ye
crisp steppe
laser matrix/archive of the titans enables reorigination array inside uldir. thats the onew
you only need 1 of them to get the full effect from the reorigination array
pearl meteor
🤔
crisp steppe
is there catch up for that indicaz?
clever jackal
so I got a piece with laser matrix last night and I plan to put that on.
strange python
no
wheat zealot
Its 3 per week
crisp steppe
yeah thats what I thought
clever jackal
I've been clearing the raid since it came out. so I should have max stacks
daring imp
afaik you get 1 stack every week that you kill ATLEAST 3 bosses of uldir ( doesn't matter difficulty, can even be lfr )
wheat zealot
Idk how you have no 370+ uldir pieces
clever jackal
we roll BiS before main spec upgrade
pearl meteor
🤔
daring imp
what
clever jackal
and I was dumb and didnt have them
clever jackal
right. I'm dumb lol
just thought about that last night. cus the raid pieces arent super great. just need 1 to start with
crisp steppe
next raid u gonna veto that shit
unanimous decision between me myself and I that you give the item to me m8
daring imp
then the only uldir trait that drops is for the piece you already have a 385 ...
high nova
guys does Garrote snapshot dmg etc? So let's say I dont have elaborate planning buff up when I garrote, is my garrote screwed then for it's entire duration?
pearl meteor
No
clever jackal
thanks for the help guys. I hope the reorigination array helps me get more mutilates off
peak musk
hmm wait with exsang till galecaller is up? 🤔
pearl meteor
No
daring imp
you hold gcb for vanish/vend/exs combo tho
@clever jackal did you check the overall energy generation of the other guys?
clever jackal
idk how to check passive haste gains
desert vault
oh another 370 azerite piece for alliance today, come on DD!
edgy ginkgo
got tidal surge and gutripper from that 😄
daring imp
not sure if wowanalyzer is still working or not for ass rouges
clever jackal
when I go to resources then energy. "venomous vim" is the only thing that comes up
daring imp
which boss is this again
desert vault
This whole SS/Exsang is going to take some getting used to! I don't like the huge DPS drops, makes me feel sad
clever jackal
I was looking at vectis. because for some reason I am always low on that fight
pearl meteor
Its not huge dps drops
peak musk
don’t get it why galecaller is so good with exsang, it only lines up at the pull
daring imp
do you use fok on vectis?
daring imp
@peak musk you make it line up on all the vend/vanish/exs
desert vault
If you remember to use GCB on its second CD it will line back up
I sometimes tend to forget 😃
daring imp
ok ...
clever jackal
we did get a second pool phase. so I know that hurts dps. but I was comparing to other rogues who also got the second phase. and also used TB build
pearl meteor
Ur using tb?
daring imp
pretty similar kill time
pearl meteor
R u getting 2 env in each tb
daring imp
also similar garrote/rupture
pearl meteor
(Cant look @ log in in bed) lol
clever jackal
yes
I "save" TB for a couple seconds
pool up my energy. and try to cast tb at 2 or 3 combo points
so I have almost max energy and the. tb env mut mut env
pearl meteor
Ur env dmg shld b higher imo thats why i ask but idk cant rly look atm
daring imp
the only thing i can tell you is that i have absurd amounts of haste and 3x overwhelming power
clever jackal
well.. my crit for that is like 10% less then it normally is
daring imp
i did 21 more mutilates on you on the same fight that lasted only 17s longer
and we had basically the same dot uptime
clever jackal
right. alot of the people I was comparing to has 20 more mutilates
so I wasnt sure if I was doing something wrong. or if it's a haste/gear thing
but with reorigination array. I hope I see that number increase next week
pearl meteor
Go look @ raw energy gained @daring imp between two logs
daring imp
yours Venomous Vim 2467 43 2424
mine
Venomous Vim 3470 107 3363
Restore Energy 100 0 100
clever jackal
how can you look at raw energy gain?
spice surge
Not dotting add? 🤔
pearl meteor
^
clever jackal
is that the venomous vim?
pearl meteor
Yes
clever jackal
ok
daring imp
did you bother gar/rup the add right when it spawns?
clever jackal
only 1000 more energy...... chump change
daring imp
if it's already midway dead no point to do any of those
daring imp
not with gar/rup
pearl meteor
Ah
clever jackal
I think so?
daring imp
i don't think you did @_@"
daring imp
you had 18 garrote ticks and 24 rupture ticks on adds
tall spruce
I have a 355 az chest with SS and a 385 with scent of blood. no other SS. Which is better?
daring imp
i had 50 and 48
clever jackal
haste does effect the dots right?
daring imp
yep
clever jackal
so with my 50% extra haste. that would be closer to 27 and 32
but you still had 50 and 48
daring imp
i literally dotted everyone one of them
daring imp
with both bleeds as soon as they spawned ( sometimes delayed garrote a bit cuz of cd )
ye that too
clever jackal
is there a way to check that add up time?
spice surge
@pearl meteor Ek did more damage too adds than ong, he just envenomed instead of bleeds
clever jackal
maybe it's not worth it to dot adds at all if they die too quick?
pearl meteor
Look @ dmg done to specific adds so 1st n u will see window
desert vault
Secrets of the Deep ...what is that traysh!
daring imp
i'd do ATLEAST rupture on adds as soon as they spawn, if they die too quick i'm not sure garrote would be worth it since it doesn't return energy when add dies
opaque grotto
Yea you know when the add is gonna spawn so you can save CP for it and just rupture/garrote it
desert vault
Sad, no DD in the azerite today 😐
opaque grotto
Idk how long it lives, my guild is doing mythic so it’s up for a bit longer
spice surge
It doesnt matter much as you get much of that energy back anyway, but yes you dont need 5 cp
pearl meteor
Its a dmg loss
opaque grotto
That add gets evaporated on heroic in my guild
pearl meteor
I wld if it was a guild run lmao
opaque grotto
I don’t pug really
pearl meteor
My guild stopped doing heroic awhile ago
opaque grotto
Same
pearl meteor
Ah
clever jackal
our adds were dying in like 6 seconds
pearl meteor
Mhm
opaque grotto
Yea we have demon hunters and warrior out the ass
So it just gets deleted on heroic
clever jackal
nvm. closer to 10 for average
daring imp
a big part of all that extra energy i got back was from rupture when add died
which translated in more mutilates
opaque grotto
Yea you get like a full bar of energy if you have any significant time left on the rupture
clever jackal
when an add dies that fast. would a 2 CP rupture be better then a full 5cp?
opaque grotto
Prob
strange python
blizz fixing engine and allowing multi threading in 8.1
clever jackal
that way you dont waste 3 cp on because of how fast it dies
opaque grotto
Just like put whatever you have CP wise on the add
pearl meteor
Supposedly but they gonna fk it up lmao @strange python
opaque grotto
It’s not really a huge waste because you get a lot of energy back if it dies with rupture still going
strange python
Just support at least 2 cores rofl
clever jackal
well if I'm max. I was thinking envenoming vectis. then switching. mutilate and rupture the add
pearl meteor
Yeaaa
daring imp
for example
i only saw two like those on yours
and i'm still pretty sure one is from vendetta
clever jackal
that's the energy gained when an add dies?
pearl meteor
Yes
mossy hazel
It gives you the energy you would have got if the remaining duration of rupture had been allowed to tick
daring imp
ignore the one i circled at 4:00 mark that was add dying when intermission ended ( ye an idiot died on the pool and it spawned lul )
clever jackal
hmm ok. I actually didnt know about the energy gained from something dying with rupture on it. still pretty new to rogue. just swapped when the expansion released
wheat vigil
Seems like no matter what setup I use my sub set sims about 800dps higher than sin. My traits aren’t that bad, kinda confused. ~16.5k sub vs -15.7 sin
clever jackal
sub seems way harder to use though. with all the mechanics you have to deal with
sturdy python
My outlaw out sims sin in St because of my stat distro
clever jackal
I always simmed higher on my sub then sin. but I actually do more on sin
sturdy python
It's not that hard once you figure out dance
Unless you have a bad comp
Missing one shadow strike is bad
clever jackal
it was more of using shadow dance. then getting a mechanic and having to run. I should have waiting to use shadow dance in the first place
slender sandal
Its not hard , but its very punishimg
wheat vigil
Yeah but it’s not like Legion where if you mess up the dfa landing you’re stuck auto attacking for 9” seconds
90
With enveloping it’s pretty smooth now
slender sandal
True
median mason
wheat vigil
It does on add fights
slender sandal
Still feels so sad when u ruin ur dance enveloping or not
shy escarp
but it felt so good to get a good one. back when I had triple sharpened blades and I crit Fetid Devourer for like 150k in a dance window. so fun
clever jackal
thanks for all the help guys
shy escarp
then blizzard nerfed sharpened blades, RIP SB 2018-2018
wheat vigil
Yeah their approach to traits seems to be to make the good ones as bad as the bad ones
paper aspen
I just ran a Sim and it is showing that mastery and crit are above haste for me, which is vastly different from what I've been seeing. Now I remember hearing that some default may have been changed but should I trust those results or look into it further?
drifting elbow
they are barely more than haste value u know
practically equal
that changes the instant u put in 50 stat change
shy escarp
you also get a bunch of haste in uldir since it'll be your reorigination stat
clever valve
drifting elbow
please use nightly version
paper aspen
So if I were to get enchants on my rings/weapons, I should go for mastery/crit? Or Mastery/Haste?
high siren
hey guys, do you have a macro to use TB if talented, or exsang if talented ?
lofty sand
I just got my 5th shoulder in a row in the azerite cache, boy I really love this system.
drifting elbow
there is practically no reason to go with mast/haste from normal haste/crit
mastery drops pretty fast when u get more mastery
paper aspen
Haste/crit is the norm? Okay, only ask because Mastery is the highest according to my sim
drifting elbow
its generalized info about weights on haste / crit
those personal weights, they are not accounting the loss of specific stat u put into mastery anyway
just do gear sims
shy escarp
mastery was my highest as well for my M+ set, but it dropped to 2nd pretty quick behind crit.
but for ST haste/crit with my 2x double dose/archive is the way to go
supple compass
anybody actually been rocking triple DD?
shy escarp
it would be worse than 2x DD + 1 uldir trait in raid and you probably don't want to roll triple DD for M+
mossy hazel
yea I was going to say, I haven't seen the sims for it, but I would assume 3x DD wouldn't be very good compared to 2 + 1archive
vernal robin
guys how do you setup your raidbots for m+ stat weights? hectic add cleave 2min ?
drifting elbow
u dont setup anything like that
only thing u can make sense is patchwerk 20sec-1min sims unbuffed
desert vault
Huh, wonder why top talents on almost every fight keep showing TB over Exsang, lots of DD traits maybe?
drifting elbow
u can see traits of top guys
mossy hazel
TB and Exsang are REALLY close to begin with
It doesn't take much to swing it one way or the other
desert vault
yeah, it is common for the second ven/van combo to be a bigger burst than opener as well? assuming no pots and stuff, just target dummy
drifting elbow
uhh, u dont generally compare opener to mid fight cd use dps burst
because of lust+pots
winter fog
how should your cds in fight deal more damage than your opener
your opener literally has twice as many stealth windows
drifting elbow
thats only if u use SS tho
desert vault
i dunno, just seems like what I'm seeing on the dummy but ...
running 2x SS and TB at the moment
drifting elbow
MA affecting opener is little as well
desert vault
er, 1x SS and 2x Archive sorry 😃
supple compass
would you ever take triple DD in tyrannical? If you could?
winter fog
would prolly play 1x SS 2x archive in tyrannical
iron prism
It would cost more time than it would save. Unless your margin is really THAT thin that you feel a need to min max
Ideally you bring competent people who can single target
Or you can be like me and bring a balance Druid pulling 5k in siege of Boralus 10 :/
drifting elbow
dps burst varies on opener, so unless u do 10+ test bursts, u cant really compare opener to mid fight one
iron prism
Not lately
slim jolt
yup simmed both
drifting elbow
to see average difference
iron prism
Spyglass is good. Probably depends on context
drifting elbow
i see nothing wrong with it tbh
spyglass is very good that doesnt rely on standing on same spot
cerulean magnet
guys, anyone care to take a look at my logs and point me my mistakes, i had bad parses :C
acoustic tinsel
Galecalers very often gets wasted for me
specially when you get tanks that just cant stand still
drifting elbow
well it doesnt really make a difference
galecaller is pretty good but bad side is standing on same spot
acoustic tinsel
yar
drifting elbow
sometimes i wonder if i should use 350 spy over 370 gale
well if they are statbuffers
hollow cloud
i sim 200 less today
drifting elbow
absolutely over fathom
hollow cloud
why
sturdy python
Are you running tb or exsang?
leaden niche
the trinket from fetid mythic dropped last night - passed as fathoms is still better >_<
leaden niche
lion's guile
leaden niche
this tiers trinkets suck >_<
iron prism
Lol the overcharged just should be deleted
Any item for a class that heavily prefers haste and it’s the worst trinket in the game... was clearly not designed right
leaden niche
i have a 390 socket overcharge i bonus rolled, worse than fathoms and guile by a longgg way
i think the ppm is too low lunitari
fathoms may be dull but it's pretty consistent
iron prism
@slim jolt btw spyglass is just generally a little better with tb. With exsanguinate gcb should pull ahead
leaden niche
doesn't feel as bad as that highroll trinket from nighthold for example
iron prism
Probably won’t be a huge difference but gcb should be superior then
drifting elbow
while gale is very good, its not practical in m+ or some raid situations
leaden niche
i think gale is good where you can use it well, eg fetid adds
sturdy python
Just need it to snapshot exsang
iron prism
Yeah end of the day I’d rather have spyglass. I’m lazy
leaden niche
with exsang it smashes hard
leaden niche
however it requires planning to use like the fel crazed rage thingy
iron prism
At least mother dropped my 385 dagger last night
leaden niche
gz ^^
grim blade
had a quick question after reading the guide, during the opener when you vanish to cast a second empowered garrote, can you do that with 5.4 sec left for pandemic? or should you wait for it to fall off first
leaden niche
fall off then apply 2 new ones (repeat opener)
grim blade
okie, thanks!
iron prism
Meh simming 16k now but really need a better trinket than corpuscle
paper aspen
I've seen pandemic mentioned a couple times but I realized I don't actually know what that is. Could someone enlighten me please?
iron prism
Probably can sim better with MA too
marble hemlock
@paper aspen whenever you apply a buff or debuff, if that debuff/buff can pandemic, it means that if that debuff/buff is already present you add up to 30% of the new duration on top of its original value
iron prism
Better desc than I was writing
marble hemlock
so
paper aspen
Ah gotcha, I knew of the mechanic but not the name thanks
marble hemlock
apply a 10sec debuff that can pandemic, and its already on the target with 5sec duration? the new one will gain up to 30% of the original duration, meaning 10sec, so it will now have 13sec instead
not all buffs/debuffs pandemic tho
garrote, envenom, rupture do
elaborate planning doesnt
sturdy python
I thought it was up to 30 percent of the new application?
sturdy python
Ah ok
marble hemlock
its the new one, not the previous one
past harbor
hey what have you guys found to be the best healers for this week's affixes
sturdy python
Not sure for this week specifically but disc, druid and mw are probably the best in general
Disc and druid being good dps as well
past harbor
ran iwth disc last night and grievous just trucked us, but it could be he was a bad priest
feel like druids are strong for this week since the hots can be constantly applied to keep people above 90%
late niche
just take leeching poison 4Head
sturdy python
Maybe, their throughput is fine but spot heals are rough
Disc that is
Druiss are always good so you're probably right
cosmic forge
Am i being derp - i dont remember weights being over 2.X last time i ran it. Anyone see something i messup? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5NfmkkVuMszhGuxiUJJTBh
placid relic
what bosses in uldir mythic would u rather take CT instead of PB
lunar tangle
atal dazar should i go ct or pb this week eu?
inner pulsar
None
marble hemlock
shadowmend is pretty broken so disc should be fine
they struggled with grievous in legion cause their spotheal was shit, but shadowmend in legion wasnt nearly as strong as it currently is
drifting nebula
Is it worth it to wear both lazer matrix and archive inside uldir? Or is either one enough as long as you have the RA and then roll with whatever sims higher?
sturdy python
I don't see any issues khuro
But that is weird, I ran sims yesterday and definitely wasn't that high on value
You're more geared but still
cosmic forge
cheers tawney
whats weird, is when running sim for outlaw, its in the 1.x range too
something doesnt feel right
sturdy python
And madchicken, it would depend what level key. CT will be more overall dps if stuff lives long enough
Sin definitely out scales outlaw
Maybe I'm missing something on the Sim idk
low lodge
Hey guys, outside of your opener how do you use exang? Just on CD?
I have double SS btw
karmic ingot
@cosmic forge stat weights tell you how much DPS each point of any given stat will provide. The higher your current DPS is, the more DPS each stat is worth because of the multiplicative scaling nature of your stats.
fathom shoal
Could someone tell me the point of double garrote after vanish?
low lodge
Garrote will be up for 23,4s instead of 18s Dralin
past harbor
@late niche would you actually take leeching poison
karmic ingot
All secondary stats increase your damage through some percentage based multiplier. Weapon damage and agility increase the base values that are being multiplied. As you get more gear, the multipliers get stronger (because you have more total secondary stats) which makes the base stats worth more DPS. As you gain more base stats, each multiplier is worth more as well.
fathom shoal
Got it...so for pandemic then? Should I be doing it in the opener as well @low lodge ?
low lodge
Yes, you should
fathom shoal
Great. Thank you
low lodge
Check the pins and find the link to the guide on Ravenholdt
karmic ingot
Opener is Garrote, rupture, Garrote, vendetta, mutilate, rupture exsanguinate.
low lodge
It will explain it all 😃
fathom shoal
Tyvm
karmic ingot
You want the 3 cp rupture so you get max pandemic rupture and max pandemic Garrote before your first exsanguinate.
low lodge
@karmic ingot After the opener, when do you use exang then?
karmic ingot
On cd.
low lodge
So you don't wait for max uptime on garrote and rupture?
karmic ingot
You make sure you have max Garrote and rupture before it comes off cd.
void gazelle
Should i refresh for full 32 sec pandemic rupture before exsang?
low lodge
Alright, ty
karmic ingot
If you screwed that’s part up though, probably better to hold for a few seconds to fix that problem first though.
modest zodiac
guys. can someone recommend an addon taht shows energy regen per second?
void gazelle
I feel like im wasting lot of combo points because i want max pandemic garrote and rupture before exasng
modest zodiac
that's fine
old escarp
@cosmic forge my stat weights are fairly similar. Haste and agility over 2dps per point. I think it's due to the nature of scaling when you reach a certain ilvl/stat threshold
modest zodiac
you'll lose 2-5 combos max
cosmic forge
@karmic ingot and @old escarp thanks for the feedback gents
regal snow
u use vendetta after 50% for Fetid speedkill?
fading harness
Sup guys, when you guys run high level keystones, what's a good trait setup
ancient tangle
whats the rotation for MA without SS? TB + PB ( raid spec )
got my 2nd peice of DD 385, have head and chest now :>
have always had 1 peice SS, but thats now out the window, sure going to miss the 2 cp
strange python
its on the site
mossy hazel
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
slim jolt
I take it Scent of Blood doesnt stack?
strange python
Why?
final stone
high keys i go ss,SoB,LM
did pick up an 370 helm that has DD i may swap LM to thaT FOR KEYS
sullen pagoda
https://i.imgur.com/pd3hWzH.png 96% log with most of taloc without poisons
omegalul
wheat zealot
"Why do i have no energy wtf"
wheat zealot
wheat zealot
I have a wa for that 
runic maple
what is the most effective way to do orbs at g'huun as a sin?
they cant solo it with lock portal right?
wheat zealot
Go sub 4head
runic maple
im too stupid for sub FeelsBadMan
raven mica
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cCfxMkVQpfPpd27yLJUmUY
anyone got any info on the real world differences between mantle and subterfuge on pure ST without any SS?
shy mica
Been out of the loop for a bit, whats the reason SS being on the bottom on bloodmallet?
wheat zealot
Bloodmallets profile uses master assassin, not subterfuge
Ss is worthless with master assassin
runic maple
anyone know if sprint helps somewhat on the slow spores in g'huun?
past harbor
so would you guys actually ever take leeching poison over cheat death in M+
for this week
sturdy python
It does rice
drifting elbow
cheat death is rarely very useful in m+ tho
lone hamlet
Should I choose that I want to compare ?
sturdy python
Outlaw is fairly easy for it too but are taking the chance of dropping dps
But last nigh I did it as sin, grab it, Sprint, lock port, shadoestrp to furthest glob you can. Best you can do. I believe only a void elf sub rogue can solo
sturdy python
Only heard rumors so wasn't sure
cobalt gyro
Step > step > vanish > shadowstrike is all you should need to solo it
drifting elbow
double step?
sturdy python
Sub
cobalt gyro
Sub rogues have two
drifting elbow
right
frozen kindle
does anyone know if DitB is affected by mastery as sin rogue ?
sturdy python
It shouldn't be
drifting elbow
whats that?
sturdy python
Dagger in the back k
drifting elbow
ah
frozen kindle
since its a bleed i was kinda wondering
lyric fable
hi guys, dead eye 360, harlans 350 and i got plume 375 what should i change??
plain thistle
ancient tangle
Macro for TB / Exsang as one button please ?!
true hornet
hi what is much worth having dual SS (one 385 / one 370) or one ss + one dd ( one 385 / one 385)?
ancient tangle
i think your a lucky boy to have a 385 ss :>
depends on what your doing id guess, M+ or ST?
ancient tangle
DD is head for ST i believe, but you can sim that fairly easily, if it were M+ id say 2 ss without a doubt
ahead*
true hornet
ok
ancient tangle
depends how exsang sits for you i guess, try TB PB 1 SS 1 DD, i guess your other is matrix achives?
true hornet
y 😒
ancient tangle
and then sim 2 ss and your other with exsang
true hornet
its the head : s
ancient tangle
thats good, you want one laser or archives for uldir for array
true hornet
i got laser matrix atm :/
little crow
odd question, but my guild is boosting my alt rogue in a +10 so we were wondering which one has the most possible upgrades in it? 
true hornet
@ancient tangle I mean i got the head with laser i dont have anything better :/
slate jacinth
In my opener, when should I use galecaller's boon? 😃
ancient tangle
so you have SS on shoulders n chest?
Zaiko, if you have exsang right before you use it
true hornet
yes
high lake
For this week, would you go CT instead of PB? For mythic +. Might be a stupid question
sturdy python
If your keys are high enough that trash lives longer than a full CT I would
clever niche
Broke into the 17k club 😄
high lake
I see, thank you Tawney!
ancient tangle
oni, then your doing good imo dude, but ofc sim it to be sure, laser 2 ss is great for M+
ST sim to be safe, but id imagine the DD chest will be better
Zaiko, id imagine GCB is right around TB mate, perhaps before so you can jam in the 3 envenoms
grtz @clever niche
quiet axle
Is there a channel where I could have someone look at a log and let me know why there's such a large discrepancy between my opener and another rogue's opener? I'm new to rogue and trying to maximize as much as I can but I'm not sure where to direct the question.
celest tapir
anyone care to view my logs and see where im messing up at? i tend to do lower than a fellow rogue whos dpsing me by 2/3k every fight but were the same ilevel
silent parcel
Do I use exsang on cd or wait for shrine trinket for combo?
true hornet
@ancient tangle I got the DD chest 385 so in pure st i should go 1 ss 385 + 1 385 dd + the laser atm right?
mossy hazel
Very first thing I see, you're 373 with no uldir traits?
true hornet
@mossy hazel @pine prism already sim my self but i just want to be sure with some advice
pine prism
That sounds good to me
mossy hazel
If that's what the sims say your current best combo is, they yea, by all means
cold meteor
Got a 385 helm DitB / TtK, actually DitB sims higher but I eard that sim is false about this trait ?
true hornet
k thanks @pine prism @mossy hazel and @ancient tangle
cerulean walrus
Its damage output is modified by whether you're behind your target right?
mossy hazel
@cold meteor Yea, the sim assumes 100% "behind target" uptime, which isn't realistic
cold meteor
Ye ok I see, I will go with TtK
rocky notch
it's probably just fight based
buoyant coyote
not doing great on Mother
vital haven
mother is all about the strat your guild uses
cold meteor
That's my only 385 helm, I will use it 100% of the time ^^
buoyant coyote
we nuke room 1-2
buoyant coyote
then cd and everyone crosses
plucky patio
Everyone cross stray is easy mode
rocky notch
wait so you do all 3 rooms?
buoyant coyote
some help to figure it out plez?
plucky patio
For mythic
rocky notch
4:30 is a long heroic mother
buoyant coyote
we are like 30 ppl not sure if that matter
rustic isle
should be able to 1 room mother on heroic
rustic isle
true
buoyant coyote
Im asking on what to improve on
my envenom uptime or wot
this is what WoAn says
but might not be accruate
sinful marsh
Is there a line I could add to Simulationcraft that would have my character case Detection when pooling energy>
mossy hazel
I'm also intrigued
sinful marsh
I was looking at some of my Simc results and noticed that there are a lot of procs of Meticulous Scheming that are wasted
sturdy python
Ah ok
sinful marsh
I want to use a free ability to proc it and include that in Simc to get a better picture of the value of the trait
mossy hazel
So you're just using it as a filler to keep MS up?
sinful marsh
Basically
buoyant coyote
seems like im playing my rotation correct im just not good on the weapon front 😒
an example
mossy hazel
Yea, I just replaced almost that exact weapon. Had it for quite a while
obtuse geode
is it important to have at least 1 SS trait when doing raids, or can you go without one? I simmed myself and going without it in favor of ilvl370 archive increases dps by 400
sturdy python
Dont have to have SS no
random smelt
I saw some rogue with red daggers sheathed on his back, is that an artifact appearnce? not sure what spec she was
sacred bramble
could be a million things. red see-through is prolly from sub artifact mage tower
sorry, thats an assassin blade https://www.wowhead.com/challenging-artifact-weapon-appearances
sacred flint
thats what i use..was mage tower for sin
proper zealot
I was using those before, but it really bothers me that they sheath on the character's back. : /
sacred flint
lol thats part i like about them
sacred bramble
dont get the booty shake from the belt sheathed daggers
sacred flint
lol
i actually loved the mage tower stuff before they were super easy, hope we get more of that
cerulean walrus
Pre nerf sin rogue quest to get Kingslayers
That would be nice
Teach those rogues how to really stealth
obtuse geode
alright will stick to archive then, thanks guys
sacred flint
yeah the quest for kingslayers was great..legion was great for class fantasy stuff
cerulean walrus
Indeed
inb4 BFA is just here to set the bar low so they drop another bomb expac in 2 years.
strange python
doubt it
royal lantern
hope that they dont listen too all those whiny people on the offical forum/reddit
cus then the game would be dead lol
mossy hazel
I don't think they're INTENTIONALLY setting a low bar, but I do think a lot of the framework they're putting in now will probably result in the next expansion being fantastic
If they survive to the next. 😄
Also, speculation: Next new class? Get one every other expansion
cerulean walrus
Bard? Battle-mage? We still need another mail wearing class, also this is totally an #off-topic conversation
meager quarry
guhh sin feels so bad without ss, got 385 dagger in the back chest yesterday
meager quarry
i did, just feels like im doing so much less even on ST
late hamlet
I understand that people are busy and stuff, but I honestly don't know where else to ask, did Uldir HC with my guild for the first time and my performance was abhorrent, parsed at 16% overall for the raid, could someone maybe take a look at the logs and tell me what the hell did I do that was so wrong?
inner pulsar
Post them
shrewd bane
just to be sure, on one target the basic rotation (not including how much cb points etc)
garrot mutilate rupture THEN vendetta
or vendetta before ?
like before rupture
late hamlet
@inner pulsar https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jLpqJ9bg3RBz16Av/ I'm Somehow
inner pulsar
@late hamlet Your DoT uptimes are low
First of all
You don't have an Uldir trait, that is going to make a biig difference
You didnt Vanish on Fetid
late hamlet
@inner pulsar I now got the 2 laser and 1 matrix pieses, should I drop 1 matrix for SS?
@inner pulsar I now got the 2 laser and 1 matrix pieses, should I drop 1 matrix for SS?
inner pulsar
You should sim it out
weak socket
@shrewd bane It depends on if you have SS trait or not.
With SS trait you do Garrote Rupture Garrote Vendetta ... then it diverges depending on Toxic Blade or Exsang.
lament slate
The name. Lmao
inner pulsar
You should Rupture again before Exsang to get max unptime on it
buoyant coyote
inner pulsar
SHould look like G > R > G > V > M >R > Exsang
buoyant coyote
Got the dagger from Zul ❤
regal ledge
so do i want to ever use shrouded on an azerite piece? bloodmallet has it pretty low
regal ledge
currently i have 1 double dose, 1 archive, 1 shrouded
dont have a 2nd double dose piece to sim it
inner pulsar
Thats fine, no use simming something you don't have. The only question worth answering is "What is best out of what I actually have access to"
So the question might be "What is the other trait on the SS piece?"
regal ledge
yeah but im thinking more of what do i need to go after
inner pulsar
How do you plan to target a DD piece?
regal ledge
dont really have anyway to?
inner pulsar
Exactly
spice surge
@inner pulsar You call your uncle who works at blizzard ofc
inner pulsar
@spice surge Right right
Point is, a lot of energy is expended in hear discussing what is "the best", and I think frequently those traits aren't even available to that person. Focus on optimizing what you have, and then when you get a new piece, do it all over again
buoyant coyote
im abit confused
I dont want to spam enveom / finsihers just for the sake of it, instead try keep enveom window ?
inner pulsar
The idea is that you want to let Envenom just about run out before casting it again
buoyant coyote
yea thats what i am doing atm
inner pulsar
But that is going to make marginal differences
buoyant coyote
I think my raid grp is spamming em out
fossil agate
Which 99% of time outside of vendetta happens normally
buoyant coyote
due to them just skyrocket in burst but drop after burst
sick monolith
boys what a haste range i should shoot for?
inner pulsar
@sick monolith The Sim Youself range
late hamlet
So, I know its a stupid question, but if I refresh the bleeds during exsang it stops the effect right?
fossil agate
As much as sims say its still best
inner pulsar
Meaning, if Haste is still your highest stat weight, keep getting more of it
vital haven
still getting 99 parses
buoyant coyote
mu envenom is around 50-70% uptime avg
vital haven
so i guess its not that big of a deal
abstract atlas
Am sitting at 22%haste and its still stronger together with crit then agi is for me at 376
vital haven
keeping good uptime on the boss at all times is probably the most important factor in dmg
that and doing your rotation right ofc
inner pulsar
Yeah, so, forget Envenom uptime, your opener is all fucked up
buoyant coyote
some fights i mess my opener alot xD
vital haven
like for example the amount of rogues that still dont know that you can immune the cudgel of gore mechanic in taloc is too damn high still
late niche
i'd rather immune the hardened arteries on taloc tbh
vital haven
you can still dmg the boss with hardened arterires
and with cudgel of gore he jumps, you cos and shadowstep to him
no dmg loss
dense wave
I also realized the other day Outlaw can dps ogre shark puncher through sharknado
buoyant coyote
btw on ghuun...should i save vendetta until the boss pops out
vital haven
use on the first big add
buoyant coyote
seems like a waste to use it on a add with low hp
vital haven
at the beginning
late niche
idk, we have lots of melees so we actually have to move away from boss plus I take less dmg that way and can help soak the other debuff.. I'd probably do your thing if dps was an issue but it reaaaally isn't
inner pulsar
You do you boo, just know that is sub-optimal
inner pulsar
Your way is not as good for the parses you mean?
late niche
yea
inner pulsar
I am fairly confident that Cloaking the pool debuff is going to give max uptime on the boss, I've never even paid attention the the cudgel
strange python
Cant u just feint the cudgel?
dense wave
Just depends on luck at that point
inner pulsar
Yeah
visual token
I always cloak pool and feint cudgel. We are melee heavy too. In p1 it’s nice as there is less blood.
Wait, now I’m confused. Ignore me.
cedar kelp
so.. is it only me or have these 8.1 builds only released one new trait for sin rogue..
strange python
they're going to support multithreading in 8.1
shrewd bane
CT on 3 targets is ok ? :/
inner pulsar
@visual token You mean you Cloak the blood pool debuff
desert vault
does one pool drop if you cloak?
visual token
I think I was confusing which fight you all were discussing
inner pulsar
THe best is Cloaking Putrid Paroxysm on Mythic Fetid
late niche
optimal use of cloak on taloc is looking cool while passing through a laser beam on the elevator phase
buoyant coyote
also
inner pulsar
Or Cloaking so you don't get a stack of Lingering Infection on Vectis
visual token
Lool
buoyant coyote
do you wait to use vendetta for the first beam on boss on ghuun
or just use on CD that figght
late niche
probably make sure it's available for that phase as it's the most important one
but use liberally before that you have plenty of time
buoyant coyote
i dont really feel its usefull to pop it at pull aswell due to mobs dying quick as hell
inner pulsar
If you pop at the beginning, you will hold the second use for beam phase
buoyant coyote
and we are not killiong the dark young
rustic ether
i guess im switching to assasination now guys, i figured out i have three of the bis traits on my outlaw gear, 1 shroud suffocation, 1 blightborne , 1 double dose
inner pulsar
Just look at one of your fights, when does beam phase happen?
vital haven
@rustic ether i would say playt both specs
you;d have to a lot more azerite pieces though
rustic ether
thats rough T.T
my stat weights for outlaw/sin are backwards
outlaw needs little haste, sin needs huge haste
vital haven
basically you have to get a lot of gear
lol
but its worth it imo
in some fights outlaw is really good
and in others sin is really good
same thing with sub
hollow cloud
just do what I do 
collect 2 of every azerite piece
1 for outlul 1 for assa, i only go sub for zul anyway not reforging for that shit 😡
vital haven
"collect 2 of every azerite piece" what game you playing dude
inner pulsar
Outlaw is really good in one fight, Zek Vos, and if you don't have the add damage on Mother
final stone
im still trying to get zul shoulders.. zul hasent been nice
ssx2 and LM
BUUUUt mythic zul tonight or tomorrow
vital haven
outlaw for mythic mother is really good
all that padding in the last room
you kidding
vital haven
i go from 13k to 22k just from that last room
and heroic doesnt matter that much anymore but heroic zul is a good outlaw fight as well
inner pulsar
I just let the Frost DK and DH melt the adds
rustic ether
wait i thought mastery wasnt great for sin? its my top stat needed
i guess its just becasue i have almost NO gear with mastery on it?
strange python
yes
rustic ether
ahahhahaa damn lol
vital haven
long st fights probably not
gilded yoke
is SS still one of the best traits? bloodmallet and personal simming has it so low now
strange python
for m+ ye
gilded yoke
so I guess that will be the start of a key gear build. thanks
inner pulsar
ALright, so real talk, hope no one comes in and bans me, but how do so many people know that SS was good, but those same people not know it is no longer as good in raid? It has been a while now
strange python
is mace better than dagger?
gilded yoke
for me personally its because I had no traits that were better until this week.
inner pulsar
I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time, I'm just curious.
Ah oke
@strange python None of that!
vital haven
its good in certain situations
hell if you see warcraft logs plenty of rogues still use it
glacial steppe
so they just copied taloc trinket and put it in as loot for the new raid
with a new icon/name
kek
vital haven
SS is good in mythic fetid for example
vital haven
where you gotta kill the blobs super quick
glacial steppe
except its literally useless for most agi classes
spice surge
Because its tuned bad
final stone
i still have 2ss but one is 385 chest and other is 340 shoulders and ive been unlucky with zul soo rip
spice surge
I much prefer those types of trinkets to g'huun trinkets
glacial steppe
yeah but
final stone
but 2ss still do great for me
glacial steppe
why
spice surge
They might think nobody would notice as nobody is using it atm 😉
glacial steppe
exactly the same trinket just with a different name lol
inner pulsar
Could be a PH
glacial steppe
dunno but it has a new icon and name already so
spice surge
Where did you see it? I cant find any lists of new items, only the icons
glacial steppe
fading spade
Im excited I got a 370 with my second twist the knife. Now I need zul shoulders so I can use it
glacial steppe
high tinker mekkatorque
spice surge
Ty guess im just stupid
inner pulsar
@spice surge No no....just blind
inner pulsar
👌
spice surge
It literally used the same buff as well, peculiar, oh well guess we have to see what they do
Hopefully they tune the new raid trinkets better so theyre useful
inner pulsar
Nope, all development power is going into Azerite traits
spice surge
Tuning and making things interesting is different though
inner pulsar
"We know people don't like the current Azerite system. We hear you. So here is another ring of Azerite traits on your gear."
inner pulsar
I don't mind the Azerite trait system itself. I don't care for the fact that I can't target a certain trait.
spice surge
In 8.1 most pieces will have the single trait you want
Getting the doubles you want will be as difficult as it is atm though
inner pulsar
Step in the right direction I suppose
But this isn't Assassin specific conversation, best to move on
glacial steppe
i wish i had double dose pieces
spice surge
I got some fat twist traits this week, if i go all in on it i can get almost 70k crits
Pretty sick
inner pulsar
THere we go
inner pulsar
@ornate mantle
hollow cloud
Fetid trinket sims decently
obviously depends on ur dice + galecallers ilvl
and the fetid trinket aswell
ornate mantle
oh its to know if i should roll coin
inner pulsar
You mean on Fetid?
ornate mantle
yes
hollow cloud
🤔
inner pulsar
Don't for the trinket
The chestpiece is good, but for instance if you already had that, I would not coin it
languid goblet
Quick question: what settings in simc do you use to sim for mythic + ?
hollow cloud
I mean its pretty close for me
galecallers 370
dice 365
fetid 385
dmd 355
But again ilvl will change ur sims obviously
hybrid harness
If Im playing galecallers and exsang, do I only exsang every 1 min when i can snapshot haste? or still on cd?
spice surge
Cd
lime briar
really? i thought you always use it with gcb
languid goblet
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
spice surge
If you miss a cast because you lined them up you lost damage
What you can do (and should) is delay third gcb so it lines up with vendetta/vanish
So instead of using it at 2.03 use it at like 2.20
But dont delay exsang
inner pulsar
OR, if we are talking about Raid, stop using Exsang
lime briar
okay thanks i'll try that out
sturdy python
Depends on your traits
hybrid harness
exsang sims better than toxic blade for me by a solid 300 dps
cache gave me 385 ss shoulders
lime briar
same here
hybrid harness
and I had the fetid chest
deft flint
Do you alwasy refresh Rupture and Garrote if under 20 sec and hlf duration before using Exsan?
inner pulsar
it beat out TB, or MA+TB?
sturdy python
I sim exactly the same with sub exsang and ma TB since I have higher ilvl ss
lethal swallow
Weird question; with subterfuge do I need to garrote FIRST to get the bonus from stealth or do I just need to do it while I can continue to use stealth abilities?
spice surge
Stealth abilities
lethal swallow
cool, so within the timeframe is fine then
lime briar
yes but usually you garrote first so you can rupture then garrote within subterfuge
sturdy python
But you should try to get Max garrotes
lime briar
this is for ST so you can get elaborate planning up, and refresh pandemic timer for garrote
for multi target its just garrote 3x
hybrid harness
@inner pulsar double checking
lethal swallow
I had some great parses on early bosses last night man I suck at Mythrax
I also overgear heroic...but still
hybrid harness
plucky patio
.Probably a stupid question, but what traits should I be rocking for Uldir? DD, Archive, SS, or stack up two of them
hybrid harness
even with MA, exsang is still my top sim
ionic charm
Sims are weird, everyone's talents seem random. Since I got my gcb subterfuge tb sims highest now instead of ma
inner pulsar
@plucky patio You should rock whatever sims highest out of your current available traits
hybrid harness
thanks fam
tbh im happy that exsang is top for me, its a much better playstyle then tb
sturdy python
Agree
hybrid harness
It looks like 8.1 PTR added a small attack power modifier to SS so maybe itll come back into meta
oak grail
How is running 2x Archives and 1xSS? OR is it better with 2xSS and 1xArchive
lethal swallow
don't double up on archive, it's not weighted too high after you get one due to RA
but sim to make sure
spice surge
Unless they did something this most recent update, because the previous ones were just tooltip updates
inner pulsar
How much do y'all think a gem slot is worth in terms of ilvl? Round about?
lucid bolt
wqhats the difference in playstyle between exsang and tb? ive never tried it before
spice surge
Depends on the slot
lethal swallow
^^
spice surge
Like 25 for wrists/back but only like 10 for legs
hybrid harness
depends on the slot, but 80+ dps per gem at my current gear
hybrid harness
@lucid bolt TB, you basically use on cd, exsang you need to set up your bleeds for max duration and take advantage of haste snapshotting where possible
overall exsang is burstier, but a bit harder to play
modest zodiac
Playing SS on vectis is actually op
dry thicket
do you want to keep EP up for nearly 100% of TB? or maximize envenom uptime overall in the fight
lucid bolt
thx @hybrid harness
modest zodiac
abstract raven
quick question, can weapons that drop from m+ (not the cache) forge? someone just told me they cant
inner pulsar
@dry thicket Just try to get the highest number of Envenoms you can get inside of the TB window, 2 normally, 3 with Vendetta
hybrid harness
I did vectis yesterday and he did his 3rd down phase at literally 1 hp
abstract raven
@dry thicket depends on crits
ive gotten four without vendetta because of 4 point finishers
think it was during heroism tho
dry thicket
i mean.. thats basically my question. should i pool as much as possible without dropping bleeds before tb?
abstract raven
i do
spice surge
I dont see why the weapons wouldnt adhere to their regular forging @abstract raven
serene glacier
I replaced my last SS trait... How do I play this spec now 
abstract raven
@spice surge aight cool, i thought the same thing but they said it was like azerite gear lol.
sudden trench
You dont play without ss
abstract raven
@serene glacier dont, if its not 200+ dps keep at least one imo
serene glacier
replaced 370 SS with 385 DD
inner pulsar
@dry thicket Yes, technically you should, but it doesn't make a huge difference
abstract raven
riperino. i wont play without at least one because of how smooth it is
inner pulsar
@serene glacier You just change your opener and vanish sequence, the 0ther 98% of the fight and rotation stays the same
serene glacier
ik... twas just a joke... it's just feel wierd to not get those sweet CP xd
inner pulsar
@serene glacier Well, as you can see, some people don't realize how little it actually changes
dry thicket
ok ty. just trying to maximize my dps on vectis myth while i played sub everywhere else so far
inner pulsar
@dry thicket There are more than a few high parsing people in here that say pooling is nonsense, so it apparently doesn't matter too much
dry thicket
😄
modest zodiac
vanish and vendetta will be up for 1st and 6th amalgam
abstract raven
i thought pooling was a must this expac because of EP?? like making sure its uptime on combos and finishers is as high as possible
whole sonnet
If you don't have ss and have dd, how do you do your opener with sub? Garrote, Mut for 4+, Rup without refreshing garrote?
icy crater
depends on talents
whole sonnet
Same question applies to vanish I guess
icy crater
All the openers are on the guide with ss/no ss and talent swaps
abstract raven
^ on ravenholdt
drifting pulsar
when you cloak the ruin on mythrax. do you still dmg people near you ?
pliant orbit
Hello any ideas what can i improve with my gear? :P
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6vCgMBgeJN3QMfeYkuCLTV
raven scaffold
370DD vs 370SS for mythic raiding?
deft flint
Is MA actually better when it sims higher?
strange python
lol what
maiden siren
fuck got 385 with Sharpned blades.. Gotta play cancer rotation now
crisp hollow
SB doesn't impact sin much
just throw at 30
i think sub tries to line it up with buffs and such but sin normally doesnt give a shit
native saddle
@drifting pulsar yes you do, but you can cloak before he casts it to completely nullify it
fringe wyvern
what do you guys do if TB comes of cooldown and you have 5 combo points? I know it means you probably fucked up, but is it better to hit TB and waste a CP so you can get a 5 CP Envenom off right after? Or would you do Envenom>TB>Mut>Mut?
north terrace
I mean... not sure why having 5 CP when it comes off of CD would be a fuck up
If you have no energy too, then you fucked up
I would have energy though and Envenom > TB > Mut/Env Spam
sudden trench
@raven scaffold what other traits
fringe wyvern
yea, i just thought it would be ideal to have like 4 CP then TB>Env>Mut etc... to get more envenoms off in TB
like would it be worth wasting 1 combo point to get off 1 more envenom in TB? thats kinda what im wondering
placid elbow
I mean, you could just Env>TB with EB buff>Mut
echo geyser
Thoughts on 385 meticulous scheming vs 340 shrouded suffocation in m+ for a sin?
strange python
why didnt u use vanish?
crisp hollow
ooh thats a good question
mustve forgot, we had different healers in so i was worried about needing to feint/health pot