damn, pretty big difference
#assassination
edgy latch
high siren
rupture/garrote need to stay up, and you need to pool before
cloud spindle
sure, I feel like that's fairly obvious though I think you see the difference between TB and Exsang show up a lot based on fight length
quick ice
I wonder what subt/TB would look like in comparison to that @high siren
pretty sure lower still, but less of a gap
can't see why you'd run MA on 6target 40sec ๐
cloud spindle
It looks mostly the same for me on 5 minute, but if vanish doesn't line up super well, TB beats it
pale knot
MA pretty decent
cloud spindle
for example 7 minute fight
high siren
ya idd, subt/TB looks better
cloud spindle
I guess I'll pop in a heroic tomorrow and try out TB, from simming it seems like TB beats out Exsang when vanish/vendetta timings don't work perfectly with the fight length. I saw similar patterns in logs and it makes intuitive sense that would be the case, you are relying more heavily on that burst period.
high siren
it really depends
a 2 min fight would be the worst case for exsang, because you just didn't get your second full burst iteration
and it still beats it for me
cloud spindle
For my gear at least, it seems to depend on fight length, and I'd say I'm pretty geared towards Exsang/SS with my huge haste. If I want more consistency even if fight length doesn't work in my favor, and it isn't a vulnerability period boss, TB seems to make sense.
cyan stump
would you prefer archive or scent of blood for m+ ,, scent sims higher but I ve seen most people running atleast one archive in m+
royal lantern
most people are probably too lazy or dont want the cost too reforge the traits all the time
high siren
easier to find azerite gear with archive than sob
cloud spindle
They are probably running one archive because of their raid gear ๐ but I'd take archive over scent anyway
They are decently close and you wouldn't have to reforge for raid ๐
harsh sphinx
turbid stratus
What traits should I be looking for? All I know is that I am supposed to have 1 archive
high siren
it's not like you could farm them, so just get the best you have
turbid stratus
Shrouded still good for singel target?
strange python
i got Scent / Swirling Headpiece - seems like swirling outweights in non M+?
turbid stratus
But if you have DD you play MA and TB?
lost prawn
Would ya'll level as Assassination or level outlaw and switch at or near 120?
nimble gulch
assa
high siren
I'd level as sub
lost prawn
Oh yeah? How come?
woeful cedar
Maybe a noob question, but do you keep the bleed debuff from Crimson Tempest up on single target to? Cant seem to find it in any guide. Gonna use it this week for the first time in M+
high siren
the talent that heals you in SD and stealth helps a lot past 116
royal lantern
dont use CT on single target
woeful cedar
hmm ok, havent used it yet, now i know! Thanks :p
lone hamlet
Is SS still viable for raids ? Should I aim on getting 2xSS 1xArchive ? Or matrix is better ? Does someone use MA in raids ? Which bosses then ?
Lel
signal summit
Sim If ma or subt are best for u
Same for traits
Since u cant really aim for some traits anyway, just sim the pieces u have
woeful cedar
1 more question regarding CT, do you "spam" it in aoe? Or apply once and reapply when bleed runs out?
lone hamlet
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
lone hamlet
Fyi
woeful cedar
Sorry, read it before, didnt see, now i do. I'll wash the shit out of my eyes .. xD
dapper moat
west gate
Crimson Tempest, if the dot has less than 2 seconds remaining ? So you just keep it up like rupture and garrote ?
because icy-veins tells you too use it instead of Envenom
lone junco
good box is good.
craggy notch
worse ppl than me getting better gear, gotta love this system
lone junco
I did 1 run only all weak
@craggy notch thx bb
I did get GC trinket week 1 from box though
so that was cool
high siren
@craggy notch what's a worse person than you ?
lone hamlet
I did 13
west gate
Crimson Tempest, if the dot has less than 2 seconds remaining . So you just keep it up like rupture and garrote or do 5 combo point instead of envenom ?
Cant figure it out, can any one enlighten me ๐
lone hamlet
But no reason actually
high siren
@west gate in what context
west gate
mythic+ adds
shell saffron
weapon enchants for pve? deadly+quick?
west gate
sry
spice surge
Mastery+haste @shell saffron
spice surge
Oh nvm thought you said pvp im retarded
Just get your highest weights
Might be crit, might be mastery
high siren
you mostly maintain the dots, might be a certain number where you spam it
number of adds
shell saffron
wat do u mean weighted?
lone junco
@west gate env vs early Ct has to do with mob count
west gate
Noobe do you thumb rule you use ?
lone junco
there is some widsom that it is around 5-6 mobs that you would refresh CT over Env. purely due to the avg hit value of ct across the targets being greater than your avg env.
west gate
oki thanks
lone junco
but that assumes that your ruptures and garrotes are out.
by 4 rupture 4g you should be near capping E and dumping
toxic spade
In m+ with 4/5 targets (that will only last 30s or so) do I just apply 1/2 combo point ruptures to each target and then start envenoming the main one?
lone junco
I have been doing something a little different
toxic spade
Like after I open with 3 garrotes
atomic karma
any assass rogue advice on fetid mythic are you saving vanish
in opener
for the add
atomic karma
any assass rogue advice on fetid mythic are you saving vanish
in opener
for the add
regal snow
maybe increased dmg to weapon poison
lone junco
nah. it is because I have a weird combo
with the SS subterfuge, it is still doing 2g
tb is ready
lone junco
@daring imp times are weird.
steep obsidian
@atomic karma maybe have a look at what some other rogues do in the boss i dont think you will really be carrying add damage as a sin rogue though
others might need to step up
ornate mantle
where was the guide that showed how to sim mythic+ on discord guys?
toxic spade
Ahh that makes sense
steep obsidian
check warcraftlogs i mean
lone junco
@ornate mantle M+ for assassin could be 6t patwchwerk, 40s. turn off raid buffs.
ornate mantle
thanks noobe
lone junco
g g g !
atomic karma
someone show me how to show casts of all spells
on warcrafdt lolgs
so i know if they vanish the add or not
is there any decent raiding rogue online
spring chasm
lunar nebula
Did something happen again to shroud or why is it like the worst trait now on BM and HD?
visual token
Because of the talents they have selected to generate the list.
lunar nebula
i see, makes sense, tnx
languid goblet
Guys, how do you rank the azerite trait "scent of blood" for mythic + ?
vast forum
Good
languid goblet
Awesome, got a 385 head with it. Now i can finaly remove 370 with laster matrix.
stark stag
Is there any ' Go to ' builds for M+ ?
mossy hazel
Sub + SS is the baseline
fierce pivot
Lazer Matrix or Archive, whats the personal perference?
edgy ginkgo
is Dagger in the Back scaling with our Mastery cause its bleeding damage?
desert vault
Archive is better cause it's good in m+ as well as raid
What is the turning point typically that makes MA better than Subt? Just traits typically?
rocky notch
Taloc
clear lynx
goodbye Shrouded Suffocation, it was a fun ride...
clear lynx
an upgrade
lone hamlet
Lel
wintry compass
SS is simming -100dps for me but I play with it anyway cause it feelsgoodman
lost horizon
Grats!
mossy hazel
Literally replaced both my weapons yesterday. 380 from weekly chest, 385 from Mythic Mother
native saddle
what's the opener with SS + TB? Should I still do double garrote in ST while in Subt window for the maximum pandemic?
pearl meteor
yes
jaunty ginkgo
!ss
gusty yoke
should i be using exg if i have SS trait in raid
pearl meteor
sim it
jaunty ginkgo
is ss still bugged?
pearl meteor
no
jaunty ginkgo
so I can 4 garrote?
pearl meteor
yes
jaunty ginkgo
sweet ๐
mossy hazel
Sweet, couple blue parses last night. That makes me feel pretty damn good considering I was barely green last week
pearl meteor
grats ๐
mossy hazel
I completely switched from SS Sub Exsang to DD MA TB
jaunty ginkgo
anyone know if the neutrals in SotS drop sanguie?
icy temple
hi guys. does it matter on which weapon u put the quick/deadly enchant ?
mossy hazel
Yup i always check them out after raid night
lapis trail
@mossy hazel What is MA and TB? Guessing DD is double dose
mossy hazel
Already see a few things I messed up
gusty yoke
master assassin and toxic blade
pearl meteor
@icy temple no
mossy hazel
@lapis trail MAster Assassin talent and Toxic Blade
lapis trail
Mm assuming that's for raid environment right? like M+ u still run MA?
If u have the option for SS
sullen pagoda
just hit boss for more damage to get better log 4head
gusty yoke
my highest azerite chest is a SS one so not even thinking about MA 
lapis trail
would u go TB tho?I feel like exhang is good for bursting a specific add
but TB feels more consistent
mossy hazel
I would have to sim it. TB is starting to feel pretty good honestly
I did really like Exsang though
gusty yoke
if you can play both just sim it
i had the problem i would forget to use EXG on m+ so i would just stick with TB untill i learned it
mossy hazel
I honestly still have the problem with TB and Ex
If I'm not on a boss I have a really bad habit of forgetting what ever talent ability I have
gusty yoke
i wish i could use my galecaller's but darkmoon to good 
gusty yoke
i have 355+socket and 365 w/o socket
mossy hazel
Did you sim top gear on the 355 and make sure you add a gem in the sim?
gusty yoke
last time i simmed they were like 0.3% dps increase and seeing as GC loses alot if tanks move i felt safer with darkmoon
mossy hazel
That's fair
ebon garden
got 385 bracers that i cant use in raid feelsbadman, gonna screw up my RA ๐ฆ
mossy hazel
RA?
ebon garden
reorigination array
mossy hazel
Wait... Bracers??
gusty yoke
the stat it gives is based on ur highest secondary
ebon garden
ye, i dont have anything else to give higher haste atm
desert vault
I feel like I should switch to exsang but just cant do it yet
gusty yoke
what would you lose to the haste then?
mossy hazel
Ohhh, I get you. The bracers would bump up something other than haste then right?
ebon garden
the bracers hare mastery/crit, and would make crit go over haste for reorigination
gusty yoke
i dont even want to look ๐
mossy hazel
I can't see a world where my haste is actually higher than my crit
As much as I try for it
ebon garden
at least they are great for m+ i guess lmao
gusty yoke
oh nvm in my raid gear i have more haste than crit
mossy hazel
I'm close. 21 crit 19 haste
dusk sun
how do we feel about dalarangaming ๐ค
mossy hazel
I'm not really a fan of his videos but I hear his content is decent
plain cairn
Guys, if your sim were 0.9% between ma-tb/sub-exsg... would you go for the more comfortable playstyle or just the highest ? x)
mossy hazel
Comfort
dusk sun
@mossy hazel i ask bc i he makes content out every single small thing xD
ive never liked sang bc of the cd time
so probably ye comfort
mossy hazel
Yea I've tried watching a few of his videos and I couldn't really stick to them for some reason
gusty yoke
simming and actually playing are 2 big things
plain cairn
I learned ass with exsang and now i dont feel TB lol
dusk sun
literally one video was "how i top damage in mythic plus dungeon" xD
gusty yoke
you can sim something 1000 dps higher but if you cant actually do that 1000 increase no point
mossy hazel
Although I did switch from Sub/Ex to MA/TB over a 1.2% diff
dusk sun
yeap dady's got a point there
plain cairn
Yeah
dusk sun
you have to also consider how long is the fight how often am i going to be able to use it
plain cairn
And im not sure how to analyze wich one im better at
gusty yoke
i just realized i changed my discord name not my guild server name ๐คฃ
mossy hazel
Smack around a dummy for a bit and see which feels better
gusty yoke
that profile pic with that name is 
dusk sun
monkaS
plain cairn
Lol
bleak forge
whats the best opener with MA and TB (just garrote and mutilate into rupture then vendetta mutilate TB envenom right?) and how to use vanish to get max value from it (just max cb envenoms?)
dusk sun
but personally I'm more comfortable with TB as it lines up with cooldowns nicely
bleak forge
played exsang with ss traits until now
dusk sun
mut garrote rupture vendetta mut 4-5 combpoints vanish envenom mut mut mut envenom
gusty yoke
my 355 socket GC is an upgrade on my 375 socket doomswake but not my fathoms
what is this game
bleak forge
yeah and later on do I use vanish to get a max cb envenom and crit bonus mut
gusty yoke
guess im dropping doomswake for galecaller 
dusk sun
why dont u use both
bleak forge
385s force me off of the ss build I think it was much more fun
gusty yoke
galecaller(355socket) is a dps gain on doomswake(375 socket) but dps loss on fathoms
bleak forge
double dose and twist of the knife then 1 archive
bleak forge
3x ss
bleak forge
or might use one rupture as well havent simmed it yet
dusk sun
so i can run with 2x ss with blightborne
dusk sun
xD
bleak forge
oh nvm i used 1 archive on m+ as well
as it sims almost same for aoe as 1 340 ss
so 1 archive and 2 ss
oh fuck i saved my raid set into dunq gearset ๐ฆ
strange python
Finally got 370 sob shoulders ๐
fierce laurel
Sob?
strange python
scent of blood
fierce laurel
Ahh
edgy ginkgo
after the opener and after i vanished for envenom, nothing changes in the playstyle from sub+TB to MA+TB, right?
strange python
No, it only changes what you do with vanish
edgy ginkgo
k
fierce laurel
I have 385 shoulders with meticulous scheming and the fan of knives trait
and
370 shoulders with sob and archive
Both of them have HMC as 2nd
Don't really know what to go with for M+, cause I'm not sure how to sim dungeons
strange python
Archive or SoB
Archive gives 240 agility at 370 ilvl
SoB will give you 236 agility if you apply rupture to at least 2 targets
fierce laurel
Are the 385 traits that shit?
strange python
Yes
lyric pond
hi, i got a 370 SS shoulders last night, have a 355 SS chest, on my helm slot i got a 385 with SOB and a 340 SS what would be a good helm piece for m+?
oh similar question i think as what Rick asked lol
strange python
Head is 385SoB or 340ss?
lyric pond
i have both, im asking what would be best to go with the other two for m+
strange python
385 sob
lyric pond
sweet, thank you โค
fierce laurel
Michee, I simmed for hectic add-cleave and 385 with shitty traits simmed higher. But I guess for dungeon I'd have to sim for 2minute against 6 bosses or something^^
strange python
do patchwerk 4-6 targets 40sec-1min
fierce laurel
ok gimme a minte :)
ruby pelican
Thoughts on 385 blightborne vs 340ss for mythic+? Tried it out yesterday and blightborne is up only ~20% of the time
Other 2 traits are 345 and 370 SS
strange python
of course, SoB is one of the better traits for m+
fierce laurel
Gonna look at pure ST now
Even in ST the 385 is better, but only a very little
Bummer :(
bronze topaz
Ist anyone playing without at least one SS trait in m+?
gusty yoke
why would you cripple ur self?
bronze topaz
Because SS ist The 340 piece :(
edgy ginkgo
Herodamage says that Dagger in the Back is better than Twist the Knife... why would Twist the Knife sim better ? D: same ilvl
strange python
ditb sims are "accurate"
It sims as if u were behind the target all the time
Which wont ever happen
waxen arch
btw guys, isnt this sim really strange? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/82VPMQNNEMQcQLK29NtEua
gusty yoke
i would prob still use 340 SS over 370 trait if it was my only SS trait
strange python
@waxen arch why would it be weird
waxen arch
Shit traits on shoulders and helm?
i have 340 SS trait but it sitll uses the 355 helm
??
edgy ginkgo
wait... yo would use an SS trait in every case?
waxen arch
355 DD trait aswell
strange python
If the sim says that swirling sands is better, its better
waxen arch
Alright
strange python
Its also 47 dps difference
Which is an error margin
So u can still play with DD
waxen arch
Oh okay
gusty yoke
@edgy ginkgo in m+ yes i would take 340SS over 370 for raids no
fierce laurel
Is Overwhelming power actually a good trait? In m+ theres like a 100% chance of getting some kind of chip damage every once in a while, isn't there? So the uptime would be 10 times lower than simmed
edgy ginkgo
brain, why you dont work D:
wheat zealot
Overwhelming power is great
quick ice
I doubt 10x lower
you'd have to be hit a LOT to lose that much uptime
at worst, 1/2 the value
wheat zealot
Just dont stand in shit 4head
fierce laurel
Even at 1/2 the value it'd be much less useful than it seems
gusty yoke
stand in all the shit so ur healer wont be bored 4head
edgy ginkgo
i have 6 azerite pieces on 370 and 2 on 385... Nothing with Double Dose... felsbadman
fierce laurel
It's not standing in shit, if you ever go higher keys or make bigger pulls you'll notice that almost every dungeon has some kind of very regular ambient damage
rocky notch
Who cares on trash
fierce laurel
In Keystones trash damage is literally the most important thing
rocky notch
Haste has pretty low value
fierce laurel
It decides whether you get through it in time or not
quick ice
trash is what takes most of the time in M+, so most people? ๐คท
but its true, haste is MUCH lower value in AOE
rocky notch
The question is about overwhelming power
Who cares if it has lower uptime on big pulls
It's already bad
fierce laurel
Is Overwhelming power actually a good trait? In m+ theres like a 100% chance of getting some kind of chip damage every once in a while, isn't there? So the uptime would be 10 times lower than simmed
The question is about Overwhelming power in keystones
strange python
It is
fierce laurel
In that case it'd be a bad trait for keys?
wheat zealot
Its not a bad trait at all
leaden niche
the uptime is usually pretty good
quick ice
I'd probably take HMC over it anywhere but raid tbh
edgy ginkgo
I'm playing with 3x SS and 3x HMC in M+
quick ice
yeah that's the dream
fierce laurel
I mean not everyone is as luck with traits
rocky notch
Owpx3 during exsang is sick but otherwise it's pretty whatever on trash
high nova
For M+ with 0 SS traits do you still take Subterfuge?
leaden niche
yeah
leaden niche
subterfuge is a lot of extra damage and energy regen on opener on every pack
high nova
ok and Toxic Blade?
wheat zealot
Exsan
rocky notch
Not really sold on hmc, you lose a lot of value anytime you're kiting
wheat zealot
Its like a 3 yd radius
quick ice
shouldn't be a problem when kiting?
wheat zealot
Super small aoe
high nova
I thought Exsan is only for single target isnt it?
rocky notch
Anytime the mobs are moving
quick ice
oh I thought it was 5yd for some reason
rocky notch
You're wasting it
gusty yoke
HMC is only like 3yards iirc
rocky notch
Unstable flames seems more consistent
quick ice
there isn't a mastery T2 is there?
wheat zealot
Elemental whirl
rocky notch
Blood siphon
wheat zealot
I like that one
wheat zealot
X2 elemental whirl with a harlans is a lot of crit, haste ,mastery procs
Has a pretty decent uptime too
rocky notch
It's 2ppm yeah
quick ice
what I'd give for a decent harlan's.galecaller's
wheat zealot
My harlans is really good, but still need a high level gcb
wheat zealot
Farming freehold is fun though, farming shrine sucks
gusty yoke
do you guys still use fathoms or?
supple hearth
wheat zealot
I still use fathoms for raiding
visual token
Fathoms is silly strong
gusty yoke
i still dont understand how 355 socket GC can be a dps increase on 375 socket doomswake but a dpsloss on fathoms
visual token
Theyโre cheap now too
gusty yoke
it just blows my mind
wheat zealot
I believe it lol fathoms is super strong and so is gc
visual token
Because ilvl is just an overall estimate on the items power and not itโs actual power
somber moon
Isn't fathoms still proportionately great even in aoe?
wheat zealot
No
visual token
No
somber moon
According to herodamage m+ sims?
wheat zealot
375 dice/fathoms sims highest for me ST, but i use 375 dice/360 gcb for m+ all day, fathoms only single procs so its trash for aoe
quick ice
looks ahead of most 370s, behind ,ost 385s on HD
gusty yoke
so do i just drop fathoms for m+ then?
visual token
Yep
gusty yoke
and start using doomswake+galecaller
visual token
^
somber moon
Ah well unfortunately I don't have any other 370 trinkets besides dooms wake
quick ice
yeah don't use both ๐
wheat zealot
@gusty yoke the reason you dont use two on use trinkets is because when you use one you have to wait 30 seconds before you can use the other trinket
gusty yoke
so galecaller+fathoms and hope i get a dice to replace fathoms i guess
stoic crag
with 4cp and 30 stack sharpened blade is it better to envenom first to allow the poisoned blade to happen during EP or to poisoned blade to get a 5cp envenom
stoic crag
i've been using poisoned blade in the ep window but not sure if its better
gusty yoke
so if you guys could just pick ur trinkets wich one would you go for?
wheat zealot
Gcb or maybe plumage at high level/dice
quick ice
probably GCB/Dice
maybe spyglass/dice if I was feeling lazy and didn't want an on use
dead-eye spyglass, not first mate's
gusty yoke
well guess time to start spamming siege and freehold then
wheat zealot
At least freehold is like the easiest dungeon
quick ice
I mean, atal'dazar, but yeah
gusty yoke
i dont think i've ever even done siege yet
wheat zealot
Yeah freehold is probs 2nd after atal
quick ice
siege is actually pretty alright
wheat zealot
Really fun as sub
terse crescent
Think tol dagor is pretty ez
gusty yoke
tol dagor is such a coinflip
either you have a group who knows what to do on 3rd/4th boss
or you dont finish the dungeon
terse crescent
You can handle the trash in the last 2/3ds of the dungeon with a vehicle
acoustic tinsel
morning! does anybody knows if I kill mother on heroic and bonus roll, then I kill her again in heroic, do I get to bonus roll again
terse crescent
Also getting groups as rogue in tol dagor is pretty ez
wheat zealot
@acoustic tinsel yes you can roll again
acoustic tinsel
NOICE
gusty yoke
wait you can bonus roll the same boss twice?
wheat zealot
Yeah freehold, underrot, and tol so ez to get in as a rogue
Yup
Just go in and kill it again already locked
gusty yoke
i thought only if they are 2 diffrent difficulties
quick ice
no
wheat zealot
Nah on heroic you can bonus roll multiple times
It would only be mythic obviously where you can only roll once
quick ice
I think you can only get bonus loot once per boss per difficulty though? don't quote me
gusty yoke
i'll just bonus roll mother and get my second dagger there
wheat zealot
Last week got the 385 legs off mom, and then bonus rolled the dagger
Feelsgoodman lol
acoustic tinsel
I know you cant normal loot again, obviously, but Im kinda on the fence about the second bonus roll
and fuck you Indicaz
gusty yoke
i bonus rolled saw "artifact power" went to take a sad sip of my beer
and then noticed a dagger in my inv
nearly chocked ๐คฃ
acoustic tinsel
Got my alliance slayer title yesterday, it was nice and fun
acoustic tinsel
I never had a weapon drop for me
mossy hazel
I want to brag right now because I so rarely get to
I opened my M+ chest yesterday to a 380 dagger
gusty yoke
wich one?
gusty yoke
notbad.jpg
mossy hazel
Replaced a 370 scalpel and 365 Jollys
gusty yoke
i replaced a 340 warfront dagger with mother one last night 
quick ice
yay you!
mossy hazel
Nice!
gusty yoke
first mother kill for my rogue and i get dagger
meanwhile other rogue is on 4 kills and still none 
quick ice
I've genuinely never seen a mythic one drop
but I've been the only rogue for all but 1 of our kills ๐ฆ
gusty yoke
yeah i played dk untill our rogue wanted to switch
so i switched aswell and went rogue
quick ice
wanting to switch away from rogue? ๐ค
shell saffron
and never gottena dagger so
gusty yoke
yeah he wanted to go play afli warlock ๐ค
shell saffron
there are other warlock specs? ๐ค
quick ice
oh, as long as he went ranged its ok
more melee this tier is ๐คข
just did fetid with 7
gusty yoke
i've only just begon progressing on zekvoz
edgy ginkgo
me too, daddys... ๐
quick ice
good boss tbh
celest coral
which difficulity @gusty yoke ?
gusty yoke
mythic
gusty yoke
we got 2/8m before we even got curve
wheat zealot
A lot of guilds are like that tbh
edgy ginkgo
I'm playing outlaw at zekvoz..
quasi ledge
King of padding
wheat zealot
More damage = padding 
thorn grove
Its not padding if your comp needs aoe
wheat zealot
^
edgy ginkgo
and yep, it needs more AOE .. ๐
quasi ledge
Must be a horrible comp if you need a Rogue to go AoE
gusty yoke
i should really go learn sub for zul ๐ค
edgy ginkgo
the silithid warriors are dying way to slow.. so what should i do^^
quick ice
usually do about 11-15% of voidweaver damage ๐
quasi ledge
Sub on Zul is completely different to "normal" Sub
gusty yoke
oh is it really just that? ๐คฃ
edgy ginkgo
i dont have to learn sub for zul... 8.1 is released before we can try him ๐
pearl meteor
Yes lol
gusty yoke
guess im learning sub just for the fun of it then
pearl meteor
๐
gusty yoke
watching speedoflife i noticed he switches between sub and ass quite often so want to learn both aswell
pearl meteor
Ye there are some very definitive sub/sin dungeons tbh
Assuming you push with a team that will play around that
Ofc
edgy ginkgo
"learned" outlaw first... sub is next to learn, too
gusty yoke
if i had a weapon for outlaw i would try it aswell but i dont
edgy ginkgo
i'm playing with a 355+socket mace and a 380 dagger, it works really well
gusty yoke
yeah now that i have mother dagger i just need a lucky mace/fist
warped wedge
is there a WA for Dead-eye spyglass trinket?
brittle apex
like this ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kCuvL6GRtymUJajYh4PUpL ๐
gaunt lotus
Hello. Wondering if someone could take a poke through my logs. Currently 7/8H, 370, decent weps. Running 14% haste. Really struggling to put out consistent good damage. I can get some good burst but then it just fizzles out and I constantly w/o energy. It must be my playstyle. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/aerie-peak/savage#difficulty=4
mossy hazel
14% is pretty low for 370 gear
drifting pulsar
are you doomed these days if you are not running shrouded suffocation ? Sim tell me to ditch the one shrouded i have for archive of the titans
mossy hazel
No, you're not doomed @drifting pulsar
gusty yoke
on raids no SS is fine for m+ its a no no to go without SS
mossy hazel
RAid ST leans more toward DD than SS
drifting pulsar
I guess its fine then. I just got a 385 Irontide Captain's hat
mossy hazel
@gaunt lotus If you're raiding 7/8, you REALLY should have at least 1 Archive for Reorg Array
languid ore
Scooped up galecallers 380, zul heroic dagger and motherโs mythic dagger in one swoop. Looking to try out sin. I know the opening but when do I weave in galecallers
gusty yoke
i wish i got shoulders out of my weekly chest
gaunt lotus
Looking through some other people logs it seems like env is usually top dmg for them and mine isn't, not sure why. Looks like I got 16 last night with a couple items, but guessing its going to feel slow still. So been tanking for a decade and just going dps this xpac. The pooling part of rogue. Am I letting my energy cap so I can use toxic blade and then get off a few envs in that window? Is there more to pooling than that?
pearl meteor
When u press ven in opener, on cd, then back when u line it all up
languid ore
Tried exsang rotation and it felt good
pearl meteor
Meh its just play style imo
mossy hazel
@gaunt lotus No, do not let energy cap
mossy hazel
Yuou just want enough so that when you TB you can get at least 2 envenoms in during the timer
pearl meteor
Hold ven/van for 4th exsang and gc with it
pearl meteor
Nice
languid ore
Which is better than my outlaw now
pearl meteor
Yee
desert vault
Ugh, I don't wanna play exsang! ๐
desert vault
But the sim gods! Don't want to make them angry!
languid ore
Exsang and tb are .03 % difference for me
pearl meteor
I mean
languid ore
I can play either or
pearl meteor
Highest rogue sim atm uses tb and dd
languid ore
Uff
wheat zealot
I wish i could get high level dd
pearl meteor
But i argue ss exsang is better for most of raid ๐คทโโ๏ธ
Again play style tho
crisp steppe
when you play with master assassin/toxic blade how do you use vanish?
desert vault
TB+MA is only 0.2% behind 2x SS with exsang
wheat zealot
Rogue in my guild got the high altitude turban 385 from chest this week
gusty yoke
i feel like using TB with SS is just wrong ๐ค
desert vault
I'm starting to feel that way too @gusty yoke why I might make myself switch
pearl meteor
๐คทโโ๏ธ whatever sims higher
desert vault
Plus if I go 2x SS then I don't have to swap for m+ ๐
Bonus points for being lazy
crisp steppe
I'm going to give it a try and see how it stacks up in practice
pearl meteor
Lmao
crisp steppe
the trick is to not have good azerite pieces with SS @desert vault thats real minmaxing
don't have to swap when you don't have good azerite armor ๐ค
desert vault
I've got the two decent 370s from raid and 370 shoulder with SS/Blight
crisp steppe
yeah I have the fetid chest thats it atm ๐ฆ
gusty yoke
im still using 325 SS shoulders 
desert vault
I just got Fetid and Vec pieces yesterday
pearl meteor
Do u guys know what 2 sin traits u can get from 370 wq helm?
I have 1 but idr what other has lol
desert vault
Hmm, not sure
spice surge
https://www.wowhead.com/item=163857/azerite-armor-cache#comments
Here are all the emissary rewards
desert vault
there is no DD gear in Uldir right?
pearl meteor
Ah ok ty
spice surge
They're based on zone
pearl meteor
Gotcha
desert vault
so if I swap to Exsang, its just use it on CD but someone said it will line back up for second Vend/Vanish use?
prolly best to refresh gar/vanish before using exsang?
pearl meteor
It doesnt line up, u hold ven/vanish for it at 2:20-2:25 ish
Assuming u donโt lose casts
Yea refresh b4 using
gusty yoke
what ilvl do you need for them to scale to 370?
pearl meteor
My dh got them at 367 @gusty yoke
gusty yoke
pearl meteor
And my war doesnt have yet at 365
gusty yoke
my rogue is 363
pearl meteor
Sooo somewhere in there lmao
pearl meteor
It uses bag ilvl
gusty yoke
oh nvm then
pearl meteor
I believe at least
drifting pulsar
do you always delay delay vendetta for vanish ? and then you use vendetta-vanish-garrote ? or vendetta after vanish-garrote ?
pearl meteor
U cld try
quick ice
shouldn't be too far apart, so I would.
drifting pulsar
and for TB ?
drifting pulsar
Ok, thanks
edgy ginkgo
deadly navi or quick navi on mh?
hollow mica
Get quick on one and deadly on other. Doesn't matter which one afaik
mossy hazel
Doesn't matter which hand, one of each
hollow mica
I hate that hunters can cast while moving and we have to use abilities for movement ugh
pearl meteor
Shadowstep is sick tho ๐
hollow mica
Fetid for example. U can step a stomp. Then cd and have to position the other ones so u don't fly off
pearl meteor
Still every other one is nice
faint harness
Does anyone know if you can cloak of shadows the MC debuff on Ghuun?
So you can soak two in a row if you cloak one
faint harness
Why
pearl meteor
Donโt know
faint harness
What the fuck is the point of immunities
pearl meteor
Lmao
mossy hazel
Soaking dots on Vec, taking Deciet out into donuts on Zek, I'm sure there's other qualities
high siren
swag
faint harness
You never have to run out of donuts with the deceit tho, thats just people that panic
high siren
because you get shadowish for a sec
spice surge
Because they got sick of people stacking immunities and disregarding mechanics so they made them go through
mossy hazel
No in mythic it happens to me often
faint harness
Legit never had it happened to me so far
mossy hazel
Weird
pearl meteor
It does happen its just only like 2 in the fight
mossy hazel
I literally got hit with deciet 4 times in 2 separate pulls last night
high siren
yeah, it does happen
mossy hazel
Feels bad man
faint harness
I agree Eleem. But they have went overboard with it imo.
high siren
by the way, can you soak it with only feint ?
faint harness
yes
mossy hazel
If it's just deciet yeah
faint harness
it doesnt even 1 shot without feint
high siren
not just deceit
mossy hazel
Donuts and deceit I'd rather cloak
high siren
deceit + donut
gusty yoke
just get more hp 4head
faint harness
it does like 120k dmg
mossy hazel
I always take it the extra bit to get it as far out of the way as possible, sometimes it puts me out of range/los of healers so I just cloak
faint harness
Sprint 4head
mossy hazel
Like you said, cloak doesn't do much more, and it doesn't happen multiple times
high siren
you cloak out of donut ?
faint harness
I would rather cloak the eye beam
faint harness
before it happens
mossy hazel
I'd rather just not get hit with eyebeam
faint harness
so i dont have to think about it
pearl meteor
Pre cloak when its likely to not even go on u? ๐ค
faint harness
well what else is there
pearl meteor
Mhm
mossy hazel
I think it removes the slow from warriors too if you really need it
faint harness
its not like i sit there and theorycraft zekvoz usage, i do whatever will give me the highest uptime
thorn grove
Cloaking eye beam lol
mossy hazel
I could be wrong on that though
pearl meteor
Ye i mean zek is kinda w.e anyways
pearl meteor
Mhm
high siren
hurts
faint harness
yikes
mossy hazel
Yup
high siren
but I feel you
faint harness
A friend of mine had his guild go Fetid instead of zek'voz, they were in for a ride 4Head
crisp steppe
do u ever reach last phase with everyone alive
high siren
no
pearl meteor
Yes
mossy hazel
It's just little things. An eye beam that hits too many on 1 pull, a weaver gets off cast or misses a CC in another pull
crisp steppe
@high siren hero on second add spawns? so u skip third set 100% and that spawn is much safer
pearl meteor
Eye beam shld jus sit still
N ppl move
๐คทโโ๏ธ
Shldnt even have to tbh if u just stay spread xD
faint harness
impossible on the donut + EB overlap
mossy hazel
Yea
high siren
i'm not sure we could pass last phase without hero + 2 orbs
pearl meteor
Defensive
faint harness
I feel like if you're wiping at any point its prob at that overlap
mossy hazel
It's that second add wave that's obviously really rough on us
crisp steppe
@high siren if you aren't reaching last phase with everyone alive you think hero is gonna help u much
pearl meteor
Same thing applies ๐คทโโ๏ธ
mossy hazel
We can consistantly get through second add wave, but we're usually pretty heavily crippled at that poitn
faint harness
i mean are you panicking over the adds or what
just keep 1 CCd for the entirety of the "donut" that happens at the same time
mossy hazel
Yea, we've been doing that
mossy hazel
Got cc, stun, interrupt orders
Honestly I don't know what the issue is. I'm usually alive till the rl says "wipe it" Lol
crisp steppe
if second add wave is crippling you
hero there
make last phase with everyone alive
faint harness
how many healers are you running
mossy hazel
Last night was our best, we got to 3rd adds with everyone up. Not sure what happened after that though
Err, not quite everyone, I take that back
crisp steppe
u don't want to do 3rd adds
faint harness
If you use 4 healers you should skip the 3rd adds
mossy hazel
Yea, we're not at the point of getting him down in 2
pearl meteor
Lust on pull
high siren
how do you skip them ?
faint harness
you push him to 40% before they spawn
mossy hazel
Just phase him at 40%
high siren
more dps ?
mossy hazel
Yea
faint harness
yes
high siren
seems complicated
faint harness
not really
pearl meteor
Lmao
faint harness
hit the boss harder
high siren
3rd wave pops at around 52% for us
pearl meteor
Yikes
mossy hazel
We're focusing more of staying alive during mechanics than pumping right now
high siren
yeah, 5 healers
mossy hazel
Why a healer
faint harness
its not healing intense anyway
pearl meteor
We push during 2nd set tbh lol
faint harness
cus you want as many dps alive as possible
pearl meteor
R u guys moving boss to adds b4 swapping?
faint harness
Like if you play this fight correctly, it shouldnt be a lot of healing going out. Mostly topping tanks for the combo.
high siren
also our problem is that we (melee) spread (and get out of range) while beams are up during adds
mossy hazel
Yea we still have people fucking up beams and deceit so we're NOT doing it correctly
high siren
so might also lower our dps
pearl meteor
Sit still with beam ๐คทโโ๏ธ
faint harness
how many melee you got
mossy hazel
I mean we just had our 3rd week of this guy and someone asked last night "what do I do with deceit during donuts"
high siren
lemme check
faint harness
we had 5 melee spread around the boss hitbox and 1 melee (me) inside the boss more or less
just be careful so you dont get clapped by his combo
mossy hazel
Yea we're supposed to stop moving... Not everyone does that... It's really just a people problem at this point
We're also really melee heavy which is rough
high siren
5 melees
faint harness
thats not even many melee, you should be able to hit the boss at all times
pearl meteor
U cld still overlap if u just move away from who gets it
mossy hazel
Yea, I pretty much just back off the boss entirely during beams... It sucks...
faint harness
Never move away from boss
mossy hazel
Because not enough people are spreading
faint harness
Thats a bad move
high siren
still, people panic around you when you run with the beam to get to the adds/boss
pearl meteor
U dont have to
mossy hazel
And we have too much melee and people die to beams every pull
pearl meteor
B perfectly spread
cloud plank
At what point is envenom better than applying rupture? like at how few seconds of the target being alive is it not worth it anymore to rupture?
pearl meteor
Its 1 at a time
mossy hazel
We aren't pefectly spread. Lol that's the point.
high siren
cruel
mossy hazel
Too many melee focusing on dps, not enough trying to do the mechanic correctly
pearl meteor
We had 7 or 8 melee today lol no1 got off boss
faint harness
Not really, this whole raid is anti-melee, its gonna happen at some point
mossy hazel
So I literally just get out and watch for the 3
faint harness
I feel like logs are so useless this tier tbh
too many dmg increases after x health
quick ice
Gotta pad'em'all
faint harness
like we had people fuck up on Mother so i was alive with 10 other people
obviously im gonnna get a good log from that
mossy hazel
Lol
pearl meteor
Ye
faint harness
but its not like i do anything special, im just lucky to be alive with 100% more dmg taken for like 30 seconds extra
quick ice
Idk, top sin log is just from a disgustingly fast kill
mossy hazel
See at least with Mother when someone fucks up, usually it's just them that dies
On Zek, if someone fucks up, they take like 3 others with them. Lol
quick ice
Unless they fuck up and spread the add aids
mossy hazel
THAT'S our problem
pearl meteor
Eh thats just if melee are monkeys
faint harness
most "difficult" fights punish everyone for individual mistakes tho
faint harness
just feint 4Head
mossy hazel
Oh shit, someone on our sever finally got Zek down. Lol
faint harness
What kind of server are you on lol
mossy hazel
Apparently a poor one. Lol
pearl meteor
Oof
faint harness
im on a medium/low pop realm and 3 guilds have killed ghuun already
mossy hazel
faint harness
Yikes
mossy hazel
Good ol' ysera-durotan
pearl meteor
Thats a server?
faint harness
mossy hazel
Holy balls. Lol
faint harness
shit realm as well
mossy hazel
It's Ysera and Durotan connected servers
faint harness
but we got 3 finnish guilds that are like feeder guilds for memento
and they are 48-49-50 ranked more or less
pearl meteor
Im on illidan ๐คทโโ๏ธ
mossy hazel
God damn, even my old server is doing better than this one. Lol
faint harness
I cant understand how its so imbalanced
mossy hazel
Wow, but I was ally on that old server and there's only 5 ally guilds in the entire top 100
faint harness
You're basically fighting for realm first still
mossy hazel
We haven't had realm first 15+ yet either as far as I know
pearl meteor
Lol
mossy hazel
You know what, I don't want to talk about my shitty server anymore, alrigth!?
I didn't know it was that shitty when my buddy dragged me there. Lol
gusty yoke
to be fair if ur enjoying the raid what does it matter
pearl meteor
Ppl enjoyed this tier?
gusty yoke
i meant if you enjoy raiding with ur group
gusty yoke
doesnt matter if its a dead server if you enjoy the people you have in ur guild
faint harness
I agree
I will never understand the people that say they cant transfer off Kazzak/Tarren Mill etc
gusty yoke
i play on alonsus wich is pretty dead but my guild is ๐ so i manage
faint harness
Like who cares what realm you play on
warm lake
I have a question about cooldown usage: In the opener (with SS) you use Vendetta asap, and Vanish after the initial pandemic stealthed garrote has ran out (~ 30 sec into fight)
My question is: do I delay the second Vendetta by 30ish seconds so i can buff the sub/SS garrote by 30%, or do i just slam vendetta on cooldown and delay Vanish for the third Vendetta?
desert vault
huh, why is the opener in SS+exsang seem ... not as bursty as the second van/vend cast ... weird
quick ice
It's not really 30sec into the fight either
high siren
I just said bullshit, sorry
quick ice
More like 20
gusty yoke
accept the shame!!! 
high siren
noway
gusty yoke
you poopoo
quick ice
And if you're playing exsang you want to get that alignment at 2:20ish anyway. 4th exsang can have vanish and vendetta
warm lake
currently running TB, cause sims
quick ice
Forgot to count the one in opener
high siren
you should delete your message
solid nova
high siren
๐
quick ice
Bah, never happened
pearl meteor
๐
desert vault
i can barely keep my DPS above 10k on dummy outside of vend/vanish windows doing SS+exsang
pearl meteor
@untold sigil tb or exsang
warm lake
tb
warm lake
ah so if the fight is 6:30, holding for 30 @ second vend is worth it, essentially?
since they line up at that point
warm lake
ah, 6:50 then
faint harness
very specific
pearl meteor
I mean
warm lake
i guess boss mechanics also factor into this -hm-
pearl meteor
Ye
desert vault
Oh, so with exsang you want to cast it on CD basically (2nd, 3rd casts) and directly after a rupture+garrote ... do you refresh rup+garrote no matter what their timer is left before the Exsang cast?
pearl meteor
Ideally? I mean if u have like 28s rupt i wldnt waste 5cp on it
Ideally u plan around refreshing to max dura right b4 tho
From almost out
civic jay
Is there a faq for Exsa+subterfuge / tb+master assassin?
wary escarp
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
desert vault
huh ok, I always wait until 5s garrote and 7s rupture to refresh typically, but didn't know if you break that rule for Exsang basically
pearl meteor
Guide explains most things @civic jay
mossy hazel
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
vocal harbor
i'm interested in swapping from outlaw to sin so i can do the most dps possible but, i'm worried i'm going to hate sin because coming from outlaw, it's very low apm in comparison
at least on the simulationcraft meters it is. outlaw at 63apm, sin way down at 42
pearl meteor
Mhm
mossy hazel
That is accurate
dreamy fiber
Haste and Mastery basically equal to Agi allready =S
vocal harbor
i really like the pace of outlaw, and i enjoy pressing buttons quickly
mossy hazel
Try it out on a few bosses, if you don't like it switch back. Honestly play what ever you have the most fun with
I mean outlaw definitely has a solid role this tier I think
vocal harbor
but i also notice that the mean apm for most melees is like 55
and outlaw seems to be an outlier along with dh
civic jay
Guide doesnt quite answer why exsa+subterfuge is so popular
pearl meteor
Fury ๐ค
vocal harbor
oh yeah them too
pearl meteor
@civic jay ss trait
mossy hazel
@civic jay Because it sims well?
pearl meteor
Lol
vocal harbor
but they also have very low apm/dps variance
quick fog
Exsa+sub feels more fluid, and because SS is the best in M+
vocal harbor
and i'm not sure i fully understand that stat
civic jay
Do you need 3 ss for it, for me it doesnt
pearl meteor
No
quick fog
MA/TB sims better for me
vocal harbor
does a low apm/dps variance mean that you could do inputs slower and lose less dps? than a spec with high apm/variance
mossy hazel
I said it sims "well" not "best" There's a lot more factors to it that may or may not make it the better build for you
sharp pawn
for pvp assa guys what do u think is better trait, twist the knife or retaliatory fury?
bright shale
Never used either
quick fog
The low apm/dps thing is more timing and management based as opposed to pure speed. So doing them slower is of no real benefit
bright shale
Always done SS a d the rupture one
vocal harbor
i see
quick fog
And it allows you to fix mistakes. With high apm/dps you get punished for just missing globals
vocal harbor
yeah that makes a lot of sense
during blood lust with AR and bringand's, it feels like the true boss is my energy bar
pearl meteor
Aka take some adderall n go crazy
vocal harbor
yeeee
quick fog
With OL yeah. You will drain yourself quickly.
You can get lucky and get Grand Melee and that helps on energy but just keep up the pace.
But BL isn't as important for you as you just do very consistant levels of high damage. So you'll be low during BL but crawl back up over the fight.
vocal harbor
oh yeah if you roll BT during it too
feels like i'm gonna break my sinister strike button
quick fog
My 1 key is definitely worn from playing OL
vocal harbor
and yeah i notice that. during lust and when people have their 3 minutes up, i fall on the meters
but i come back up in the "down time" of dps
desert vault
oh, when doing an rup > garrote > exsang no need to let the garrote/rupture tick all the way down before reapplying? Just reapply in pandemic timer?
granite ermine
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)