and its more optimal
#assassination
unique depot
My guild requires us to have at least blue parses prefer purple for item level parses unless like mother where they always force me in group 1😒
magic thorn
how should i line vanish up with vendetta ? because my vanish is like 20s late into vendetta
because of the opener
and what rotation do i follow up then ?
loud pilot
assa group 1 is literally trash
unique depot
It’s shit I’ve tried explaining it but I started off outlaw this tier before moving so I got stuck
strange python
bro how is it 20sec late
When garrote with exsang lasts what
8 sec?
So your vanish shouldnt be delayed more than 12-15 sec
magic thorn
oh right that was dumb by me
strange python
You can pop vendetta like 5 sec before vanish comes up too
Since your exsang will fit into the window
magic thorn
So i pop vendetta build 2 cps and then do garrote rup garrote exsang ?
strange python
Like I said
You can pop vendetta 5-7 sec before vanish comes up
But yes, generally you want to enter ur vanishes with 2cp
All except the opener
That is if you're running SS
magic thorn
Are there other Things that i could do better to improve the dps ? Outside of my cooldown management
opaque grotto
Depends on how long is left on your rupture when you vanish too
Because sometimes you can just repeat your opener essentially
strange python
yeah but its best to gar-rup-gar
opaque grotto
Yeah but for consistency’s sake I’m sure it’s not that much of a loss to just do the opener again mid fight
Just with vendetta at the same time as vanish
strange python
it is when u min max
And u dont have to vendetta with vanish
U can pop it before
Like 5-7 sec
opaque grotto
I agree, and I change it based on the situation but if someone is struggling and it’s difficult to manage cooldowns/timers
It’s just easier to do it that way
solar bramble
garrote > rup > garrote i agree is mroe consistent. and mid fight you can vanish at 2 cp to vanish > garrote > rup/envenom > garrote
a quick way to manage it for newer players. is to make a weakaura more designed as a bar just for garrote/rupture as it's easier to track for newer players than complicated WA. I have one for garrote, rupture, vendetta, tier 1 talent's duration, and tb's duration. as it's just simpler to see than some other WA's
at least that's how i see it
once you're more used to the timing, you can adjust to more effective WA's
silent scaffold
is it better to just exsang the orb on mythic mother or just run toxic because it sims better if you're running ss?
royal lantern
why are you on the otherside with orbs
sin rogue should be 1 of the last people too go too the other side
final stone
^^
inner pulsar
Some RL don't pay enough attention to that stuff, and then arguing with them can make you look like a parse whore
royal lantern
and even if you do the all at once strat
you have other people with WAY better burst
´´i dont have any burst at all because my class is dot based, dont send me over early and send the fking dh irl pal you have do eyebeam+fel barrage´´
if he doesnt understand that he should NOT raid lead imo
silent scaffold
that's pretty much what I had to tell my last guild
I left that guild last week
new guild tonight lol
er not tonight, tomorrow
frosty gyro
Well I mean you can technically just send a Sin over because they aren't going to lose that much damage theoretically 🤔
After you do exsang at least
inner pulsar
But be sure to use Tryan's strategy, considering it will be your first raid
frosty gyro
The optimal play is probably to send all melee specs over and have ranged continue to DPS for longer
inner pulsar
And sometimes raid comp is just not optimal. I had to be on small adds for M Fetid, because the warlocks and shadow priests would have thrown a fit if they weren't on the mutated mass
crimson sedge
Hey quick question.
When playing assassination im seeing in the sample sequence in raid bots that we should pool energy at some points. when do we pool energy? I looked in the guide and i didnt see anything in there about pooling. Are the only conditions to have dots up?
frosty gyro
You can pool energy before you envenom if you have dots up
Also if you're playing TB it's good to pool for TB
crimson sedge
do i pool to a specific amount?
frosty gyro
I like to pool CP for Exsang since I find Rupt>Gar>Exsang is more consistent than trying to Gar>Mut>Mut>Rup>Exsang
gaunt wing
Pool enough to get atleast 2 envenom in your TB window
frosty gyro
Do you have galecallers?
crimson sedge
nope
frosty gyro
It also does depend on your CP
Easier to get 2-3 Env in TB if you have CP already when you TB
crimson sedge
when looking at the sample sequence there are some points where they have like 5 seconds waiting for energy to regen and have good amount of CP i was just looking for energy
frosty gyro
Look at some 100th percentile logs and check where they are pooling
opaque grotto
I got rank 1 fetid a few weeks ago with 0 pooling like a fucking mong
I had 3x SS before it got nerfed tho so ez game
slate bear
hi guys, can somebody help me at aoe rotation?
floral frost
Hi I'm having a hard time doing effective AoE damage as rogue in m+, what should I prioritize? Garrote with subterfuge on as many targets as possible, then rupture on how many targets using fan of knives to build the CP for ruptures?
ionic charm
@opaque grotto you ran 3 ss with TB?
floral frost
I have no shrouded suffocation traits at all
floral frost
Running TB
ionic charm
Then pooling didn’t have anything to do with your parse lol
wheat zealot
Pro tip: dont run tb for m+ @floral frost
inner pulsar
Wut?
civic palm
Not really.
opaque grotto
If you vanish with 0 energy you might have a hard time G > R > G
ripe nimbus
I don't pool and I still get top 10s in mythic
ionic charm
If you vanish with 0 energy you will still get 2 garrotes, so yeah
civic palm
How do you have 0 energy though...
ionic charm
You don’t
opaque grotto
Okay but you want to RUPTURE between the garrotes
inner pulsar
Yeah, saying "Don't have zero energy" is not the same as saying "Sometimes you should pool"
nimble tartan
Pooling in 2018. Only Chad's press a button every gcd if possible
inner pulsar
I am now questioning this claim of rank 1 anything
ionic charm
It was first week heroic fetid, he had 3 ss. That’s literally all you need to know
ripe nimbus
Exposed
opaque grotto
I said I never pooled like a fucking mong
floral frost
I got garbage traits for 'sin, maybe I should go sub for m+
strange python
I went sub for m+
floral frost
swirling sands/blast/p. wire
hollow junco
sub "i aoe only when sectec is off cooldown" feelsbad
strange python
Its good when ur tanks pulls shit ton of mobs
strange python
You mean sub
inner pulsar
@wheat zealot Thats where I fell out, just switched to Outlaw
wheat zealot
Lmao
inner pulsar
For M+ I mean
wheat zealot
If i had a consistent m+ tank that actually had a pair, i would like to play sub. But all these tanks wanna pull one pack at a time >.>
inner pulsar
Yeah
inner pulsar
@wheat zealot Yeah, but every Sin rogue would love that guy
wheat zealot
True lmao
ionic charm
@strange python at least sin had most of legion with 1 spec for aoe and st
strange python
Played a monk for legion
wheat zealot
I have a 370 socketed mace, so might be time for some chadlaw
inner pulsar
I like Outlaw ok, but I feel it might be dangerous for my computer. Rolling 1 buff 8 times in a row gets frustrating haha
And then suddenly I have to buy a new keyboard
wheat zealot
Yeah zek voz prog made me not wanna play outlaw for a while lul
nimble tartan
here is the official chad power-rankings for rogue Outlaw>>>>>>>>>Sub>>Sin
ionic charm
Aren’t sub and sin switched tho?
wheat zealot
Id say it should be sin=sub
nimble tartan
no this is the official chad ranking
srry its not up for discussion this was heavily debated with the chad board of executives
slate bear
should i use fok anc ct with 2 targets of more?
ionic charm
No to both
nimble tartan
sub chad stock is still very high from all the testosterone from DFA in legion there is 1 more tier to go until sub sin are same
slate bear
thanks man
pallid spruce
is there new update for best in slot in azerite trait ?
cos someone just told me bloodmallet is not up to date
ofc wanna get best for my assa
ionic charm
Just check herodamage, you’re a rogue
rough venture
How do you play exa in M+ / Raids?
ionic charm
Did you read the guide opener? If so, what other questions do you have about the usage (in raids, m+ usage is a bit more nuanced and up for debate)
rough venture
Well, I know about the opener. I'm thinking general usage midfight.
ionic charm
Refresh dots to max, use any haste trinkets/buffs, apply exsang, keep EP up for the duration, let dots completely fall off
rough venture
Seems easy enough. Thanks!
ionic charm
Np. And I won’t claim to be a m+ expert, but the general usage has been to open GGG, then CT if talented, fok for cp, rupture a target with g then exsang. Without CT just g g g r exs and continue as normal
Casting exs on priority targets, ofc
@rough venture also you want to hold your 4th exsang ~10 seconds to line up with 2nd vanish/vendetta in raids. It should all like up at like 2:15 into the fight
solar bramble
They fixed garrote with as traits. You can now do all 4. Prioriize targets with frustrating spells, as it’s a 6 second silence with iron wire. Can
opaque grotto
4th garrote won’t silence
cyan frost
in the opener after the exang garrote falls off i still have 5~ seconds on exang rupture. are you supposed to use vanish and double garrote or wait till exang rupture falls off then vanish for G > R > G
opaque grotto
Do GGGRG
drifting elbow
its whatever, wrekt
solar bramble
While you very much can and is suggested to rupture, I prefer an envenom > fan of knives to almost guarantee that your garrote targets have a poison
drifting elbow
as long u dont overwrite old rupture
harsh sphinx
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7uXtz3NAxHhAkD9MReg9tv vers trink? is it just the 285 agi pulling ahead?
drifting elbow
50 dps difference isnt a lot
solar bramble
Just slightly lower value. If pushing high keys I’ll likely add some extra for a little more survival
Shit hurts up there
solar bramble
Ya, and I have triple resounding protection traits for the moment
Very nice to have
drifting elbow
i got like really bad luck with those shield bubbles
solar bramble
My outlaw gear all has em. Sins is 1 with the other usable one as our shroud defensive trait.
Which I like almost more than resounding, since it’s getting most value at the moments you want it
Where resounding can be used up by more unavoidable trivial dmg prior to when you really want it
harsh sphinx
for sure, thx
drifting elbow
i suppose i gotta step up my m+ farming to get 2 items above 360 level so that i can have confirmed 
370 cache from emissary
harsh sphinx
3x 700 gold since cache implementation 
drifting elbow
alliance has been lucky
buoyant ember
Yeah our WQ rewards since emissary azerite upgrades has been trash truck juice...
uncut mango
There have been 2 azerite caches since the change
That isn’t too bad
One of mine ended up with DD which is nice
visual token
My first one was 355 and second was 370
deft flint
Should you use CT over Bomb in m+?
tidal jetty
if you need more frontloaded aoe
the difference isnt that big tho, and the drop in bossdmg especially during tyrannical isnt really worth it imo
crisp gate
hey sorry for the noob question, but is there such a thing as too much haste for assassination? like at what point is there diminishing returns or unachievable dot break points?
drowsy mist
run sims
tidal jetty
if there is its pretty high. I have almost 1.1k haste, + reorigination array and galecallers. Haste still sims highest
for st*
crisp gate
I'm at 1599 now w/o RA buff for uldir
drowsy mist
only way to know is for you to run sims on your character
crisp gate
ok. I remember back in the days of work I and cata there were very specific breakpoints but I'm guessing that's not a thing anymore
wotlk**
solar bramble
how heavily are weapons weighted towards ilvl?
like the same as chest/leggings? or is it equal per piece idk. tried googling it but no luck
civic palm
More
solar bramble
k, cause i'm at 362 with 345 daggers (still, tol dagor is really damn stingy with daggers, so is underrot). and need to hti 367 before 8am my time to turn in the azerite cache for 370 over 3556
355*
civic palm
or you mean that kinda weighting, no.
crisp gate
man I know the struggle with tol dagor dagger farming... best of luck to you
solar bramble
been at it a couple weeks already . . . . . . i need a little more than luck at this point
crisp gate
Yeah M+s are so unreliable to target items but its really all we got lol
solar bramble
weapons should have a naturally higher drop rate. due to the sheer importance
crisp gate
Try to save your tokens for MOTHER you'll have a better shot at getting a BiS dagger
solar bramble
but blizz likely lowered the drop rate
oh, i've done them on mother and zul
every week
tol dagors dagger is prettymuch equilvalent to mothers
more or less
crisp hollow
just get a 385 socketed one week 1 of mythic its easy
solar bramble
lol
crisp hollow
Mother appreciated my raw talent
toxic burrow
Ugh... I've been using coins on Mother and Zul from the start, to no avail. A buddy brings his DH alt and gets two 370 weapons from his first run though.
solar bramble
385 socketed would be fairly nice. but i can't clear mythic qq
crisp gate
why didnt I think of that. duh
solar bramble
to be fair
m;y tank got his mythrax trinket, and both azerite pieces on his first run
royal lantern
bonus roll on mother since the raid is out, no ring or weapon 😃
solar bramble
i've gotten neither from her either since it's been out
toxic burrow
Desire Sensor! It's gem farming in Monster Hunter all over again...
eager venture
Guys I don't have logs but does anyone know how to sustain dps in raids? I am fine for dps on keys but in raids I am sucking
strange python
Dont suck
eager venture
😂 Wish I didnt!
royal lantern
keep your bleeds up, try too have a high uptime with the envenom buff, cheese everything possible
drifting elbow
forgot to switch to CT in FH m+ 
oh well it wasnt too bad, got almost constant poison bombs
dumb tank is just moving sometimes
strange python
3% on fetid
then guild disbands
feelsbad
me and the other rogue join a meme guild who just started fetid
the cycle continues
inland gull
@solar bramble on my druid i got 365 and my azerite is 370 from emissary
dusk holly
does anyone know how to make TMW distinguish between an empowered garrote and a garrote?
wise star
No
high siren
okay thanks
spring chasm
my eyes are bleeding from that
sullen pagoda
assassination on zekvoz yikes
wise star
Garrote
Rupture
Garrote
Vendetta
Mutilate
Rupture
Exsanguinate when talented
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Vanish when Garrote runs out
Garrote twice
would be your opener
but on zekvoz, just play outlaw or sub if you allowed to funnel
sullen pagoda
yeah outlaw for overall or sub to delete caster adds
sin really brings nothing to the table
high siren
yeah well
safe canopy
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gu55dr5U4jdy6xeooq1Vat shit im being told to get master > all now 🤔
wheat vigil
TBH you really need to be able to play all 3 specs right now
wise star
if you insist on playing assa go CT and save vanish for adds
high siren
that's not my opener
hollow stone
Sin is fine on zek
high siren
i'm the other rogue
sullen pagoda
he time traveled back to NH
high siren
he's playing subter
cunning needle
i dunno man he's gone full stupid anyway
pastel wasp
lol
wise star
lfr opener
cunning needle
he could be overwriting the garrote from stealth
daring iron
I just wanna say yikes
cunning needle
with a non garrote stealth
pastel wasp
garrote garrote envenom exsang
pastel wasp
vendetta->vanish->envenom
LOL
look at it
pls
131 minutes
by 131 minutes
i mean 131 seconds
spring chasm
he exsanged without rupturing before
spring chasm
he used a Rupture 17 seconds earlier
wise star
57*
daring iron
mythic raider btw
pastel wasp
yea
his vanish is MA/TB
Vendetta-->vanish--->envenom every time
then he garrotes/exsangs
🤷
pastel wasp
gear
nimble tartan
Any other tb Chads in the chat
languid goblet
Quick question about azerite trait for assassination in mythic+ dungeons. Would 'Poisoned Wire' be better than Double Dose overall ?
pastel wasp
eh
spring chasm
in that case should be blightborne
wise star
BI is quite nice for m+
pastel wasp
yea
wise star
if you lag SS
languid goblet
I have no SS atm :\
spring chasm
big yikes
wise star
you should have at least 1
spring chasm
first week pvp cap had 355 SS chest iirc
languid goblet
I have a chestpiece with SS, but its archive of titans, so i kinda have to use it for raiding. And i dont wanto respecc every raid/m+.
pastel wasp
yea thats fair
languid goblet
Archive of titans > Double Dose for m+ ?
crisp hollow
yup
languid goblet
true.
vague patrol
only time youre ever out of combat in m+ is for healer drinks pretty much.. or shrouding something
spring chasm
you can even get stacks before the dungeon starts
just put down a turnip dummy
stacks dont reset when you start the dungeon
languid goblet
Nice tip.
crisp hollow
whats the update time on the raider.io site generally?
i wanna see what replacing two +10 scores with +15 scores did for me
salivating
vague patrol
it depends
pastel wasp
in time?
crisp hollow
yeah
spring chasm
its more like blizzard depending then rio
vague patrol
sometimes t's like instant sometimes it takes a while
languid goblet
What are your IO scores? Im at 1239 atm.
spring chasm
because they have to update their api
crisp hollow
1261 but underrot and temple 15 need to update
vague patrol
1671
languid goblet
Nice.
languid goblet
vague patrol
yeah thats some pretty huge variance lol
crisp hollow
freehold 11, siege and tol 10's, king's rest 10 depleted feel bad but never saw any of those keys
vague patrol
im trying my first 18 tonight
crisp hollow
we currently have 4 waycrest 16s in my push group
crisp hollow
fuck that place the worst
languid goblet
Btw, how bad is Laser Matrix for m+ ?
crisp hollow
the damage is split
lean coral
gets you killed in kings rest
crisp hollow
so pretty butt
pastel wasp
its 'ok'
steep obsidian
guys if i'm using exs, do i always save my galecaller's until my exs comes out of cd?
pastel wasp
save galecaller for when its a good time to use it lol
usually line it up with exsang
crisp hollow
underrot worst galecaller dungeon by far
gonna just put fathoms back on there
everything spooges on my buff zone
spring chasm
just gale before you kill the totems 🤔
crisp hollow
yeah I have gale macroed to Vendetta for opener but also bound on its own
feels nice when you initially use them separately then they line up again
like fate wants me to go big dick
cyan frost
seems like high keys people stopped using 3+ ss?
crisp hollow
how do you get more than 3 SS
in seriousness it could be 340 pieces aren't enough stam and 2 gets the job done
but idk i didnt think we were at that point in the xpac yet
vague patrol
i mean in a 17 or 18 key if you're running 3 340 pieces you're in 1 shot territory
the hp difference between that and 385 pieces is massive
glass tusk
why tidal surge sims higher than ss for me? did i missed any hotfixes?
strange python
why do people sim 5 min fight when there is no 5 min fights lmao
pastel wasp
ur running MA
marsh bloom
do I not?
pastel wasp
you booned at vanish
marsh bloom
oh ok
pastel wasp
intersting that you guys lust at the start
pastel wasp
mother
marsh bloom
we only stayed in the first room
flint swift
You can just burn her in room 1
pastel wasp
heroic
marsh bloom
yea big damage
yea lmao
I don't mythic raid
looking for a morning raiding guild lol
flint swift
I work nights too lol it’s rough finding a guild
acoustic flame
Is there a point in me going MA if it sims 2 dps more
Are there any additional benefits to it
I guess it's a loss for 2 targets?
pastel wasp
i prefer exsang over MA
even if it simms higher
MA is more punishing if you dont utilise TB well
acoustic flame
yeah i don't think i'll bother
gilded yoke
for exsang, the energy pool doesn't matter, only the time left on bleeds?
crisp hollow
yup
drifting elbow
preferring exsan over MA when they are not on same talent row
imo MA hardly punish u with TB when MA is only active with vanish anyway
stray hatch
Is it worth to even use Exsang if you don't have any SS?
frosty violet
I prefer Shuriken Tornado to Crimson Tempest honestly
acoustic flame
doubt it
pastel wasp
@drifting elbow do you MA with exsang?
frosty violet
same tier
pastel wasp
one is clearly TB
right?
that was what i was referring to
and the question he asked
drifting elbow
TB is on same row as exsan yeah
drifting elbow
?
frosty violet
@pastel wasp MA is actually pretty good with Exsang, have you tried simming it?
pastel wasp
nope
frosty violet
Double speed bleeds with +50% crit is a huge burst
drifting elbow
yeah
tidal jetty
the 80% buff to garrote tho, with subterfuge
pastel wasp
^
drifting elbow
yeah with 0 SS sure its big 🤔
tidal jetty
(for 3sec)
pastel wasp
@drifting elbow claiming MA goes with exsang
frosty violet
(at double speed)
pastel wasp
nah
ur comment
VeqadToday at 11:11 AM
preferring exsan over MA when they are not on same talent row
:GWfroggyPeepoDetective:
imo MA hardly punish u with TB when MA is only active with vanish anyway
drifting elbow
yeah is there something wrong with those comments, skor?
sullen pagoda
do u have any proof for that @frosty violet
frosty violet
yeah, just look at it... it's public...
sullen pagoda
i cba going thru it
lone junco
we talking about an exang vanish with MA?
lone junco
not a Vanish NS Rupture exang.
pastel wasp
unless MA goes with exsang
frosty violet
no NS
lone junco
but a rupture exang vanish.
pastel wasp
which is new to me
tidal jetty
pretty sure even nightstalker for a 50% buffed rupture would be better than MA for exsang
strange python
wait MA without SS is top talent now?
drifting elbow
and some ppl seems to agree with MA+exsan
pastel wasp
WHAT?
frosty violet
garrote rupture ct exsang vanish rupture rupture envenom
pastel wasp
k
drifting elbow
🤷
pastel wasp
I must try
lone junco
MA is 3 sec base tick rate is 2 sec. so with haste 0.6 sec exang. so grats you have 3 maybe crits.
lone junco
at a loss of 60% subterruge on garrotes
drifting elbow
cynical?
pastel wasp
cynical?
drifting elbow
im commenting
lone junco
idk. do what you do. but ma and bleeds dont go together well.
drifting elbow
where u are adding feelings into this?
drifting elbow
skor being insecure?
drifting elbow
i never brought in feelings into this stuff
pastel wasp
no shit man
drifting elbow
¯_(ツ)_/¯
lone junco
and exang is 11 sec or so. vanish in the middle 3 sec of that for . . ENV MUT ENV
without eb
tb
but without subterfuge it has no beef
so gl
drifting elbow
i never claimed MA+exsan being best skor
drifting elbow
just that it seems u absolutely have to pair MA with TB
pastel wasp
stop
pls
stop
MA + Exsang = no
so what else does it pair with?
🤷
venom rush
i guess
spice nymph
Hey
Was wondering if there's a guide for m+ talents?
pastel wasp
moving on
frosty violet
@spice nymph There's a link to an Assassin guide in the topic of this channel (at the top of the window)
It has talents
spice nymph
Ya but im looking for m+ talents
drifting elbow
its same as raid except u use subterf/exsan and CT for most dungeons
with SS traits
frosty violet
@spice nymph Did you read the guide? It specifically lays out a set of talents for dungeon content.
pastel wasp
@drifting elbow
VeqadToday at 11:23 AM
just that it seems u absolutely have to pair MA with TB
this is gonna haunt me
drifting elbow
calm cedar
nimble tartan
who here ballin with 3 gutrippers on m ghuun https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r4VuhxUia9rskMhHHsq4P7
daring imp
all specs are viable in mythic and m+, @calm cedar
speedoflife did a 19 atal dazar in time as sub rouge
many other assassination and outlul rouges have done plenty 15+ keys
acoustic flame
you need tank to play for u if u want to play sub well
like pulling mobs into bosses for more prio dmg
weary arrow
is the order for exsang garrote->rupture-exsang
frosty violet
@weary arrow
weary arrow
thanks death
prime void
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
spare cloud
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
prime void
@spare cloud
quiet ginkgo
is it okay to use mastery enchants/gem if I have a trinket that boosts my haste? I already have a 395 construct which is why I thought switching to crit/mastery is better.
rapid hound
You can sim enchants on raidbot
quiet ginkgo
Oh really? Gonna check that. Thanks
leaden storm
outside of the opener how much garrotte/rupture time do we want for exang? fully capped duration or just 20+ of each?
daring imp
not a clue
there's like a million different scenarios to answer that question
which one is the best ... heck if we know @_@"
echo cargo
enchants other than haste, yikes
opaque grotto
Well I’m pretty sure you’ll want maximum duration on your bleeds before you press exsang
Or at least close to it
It’s pretty easy to set that up anyways
pastel wasp
haste/mastery enchants might be better @quiet ginkgo
quiet ginkgo
I'll check that later and see if it's better.
cedar kelp
are yall still running 3x SS this week trash seems to melt faster than a garrote lasts on it.
i was running 1 ss and 1 archive 1 blightborne for more ST for tyran and it seemed to work out smoother
daring imp
if stuff melts faster than a garrote:
1 - your tank isn't pulling enough packs
2 - you probably should be doing higher keys than that
supple hearth
3- all of the above
proper igloo
360 harlans dice or fathoms?
ionic charm
For st? Fathoms. For m+, dice
pastel wasp
whats the other trinket
chilly obsidian
Yeah why not both
trim narwhal
any recommends for an Assass Rogue streamer to get M+ pointers from?
echo cargo
How do you sim for your ideal enchants / gems? (That include your running buffs / trinkets / bullshit)
hazy pebble
echo cargo
Thanks for your precise and enlightening answer
harsh sphinx
dl the addon type /simc copy + paste into the box, run the sim = profit
you'll find the enchants somewhere in there
safe matrix
Simulation options has bugs
Buffs
Which can be changed for every simulation, and top gear sim can change enchants/gems @echo cargo
Otherwise I have a quick write up on how to sim in #bot-spam
signal summit
solid mural
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
daring imp
@trim narwhal most of the ones on top m+ rankings stream and it shows on RIO when they are, i'd check seliathan's ( twitch.tv/incarnated ) tho, great dood
solar bramble
i'm almost to the point of giving up with these weapon drop rates. been stuck with the same 2 daggers for nearly a month. they're almost 20 ilvls behind my average ilvl, regardless of how many underrots or tol dagors i run
vale wedge
Hey guys quick question. My sim has me at 13k dps on patchwerk with full raid buffs and I hit a dummy for about 5 minutes and did about 10.8k consistent with no raid buffs. Would full buffs +lust make up that much damage?
sharp schooner
just sim with no buffs
vale wedge
Holy shit I'm dumb
fading spade
take that stuff to #off-topic my dude
jaunty crystal
Yea @solar bramble I'm 363 atm with 345/335 daggers 😦
used my rerolls on daggers this week too, no luck
solar bramble
i use em on daggers every week lol
jaunty crystal
true
jaunty crystal
welcome to the struggle 😢
crimson marsh
I have 370 mace and just running the Law in raids, Sin in m+
solar bramble
getting mace/one-handed is a lot easier, since several dungeons have both a one handed, mace, or fist. all which are usable for outlaw. but at most 1 dagger
much higher chance in the pool to get one
umbral cloak
Does Elaborate Planning affect bleeds and poisons already applied?
crimson marsh
aoe rupture ?
marsh bloom
even with 3 ruptures on sometimes
safe matrix
Are you spreading out your poisons
Garrotes + ruptures will have you flowing in energy
Cause of venomous wounds
marsh bloom
I know how it works
with 3 garrotes on it's still not much energy with only
10% haste
thank you for trying to help ❤
patent topaz
raid lead wants me to not play assa on vectis beause adds die too slowly
marsh bloom
mythic?
patent topaz
yes
we had 90 minutes on progress this week, got him to 23%
reclear on zekvoz took 2 hours because we had 5 new people
supple wolf
We welcome more pirats to the only true christian specc
strange python
In my exp, i garrote 1 target out of stealth spamm FoK after that and apply 3 ruptures.
remember you dont need 5 cp ruptures
supple wolf
You don't do that if you run ss and subter
At least that would be a bad opener
Oh
Out of stealth
strange python
I know on paper it should be different but it isent.
supple wolf
?
strange python
Yeah
marsh bloom
target dummies must not return energy
if you hit multiple
with 20% haste i'm not able to keep rupture up on 3 targets lol
target dummies
supple wolf
You must be clicking wrong buttons
strange python
You are from NA @supple wolf ?
supple wolf
No
strange python
Are you sure?
daring imp
and with SS/subterfuge how the heck is 3 garrotes a waste of time
supple wolf
Pretty surr
solar bramble
@patent topaz that's a solid argument for not using sub rogue but not assassination. just play sin for the higher ST than the other possible usages on zek'voz
safe matrix
Yes
daring imp
you mean on the lil' adds @strange python ?
strange python
@daring imp 3 Garrotts need time to tick down. If your group blasts a big pack down they wont tick to the end.
daring imp
dunno what keys you're doing but on anything 10's and forward your garrotes will have plenty spare time to tick the heck away
if everything dies within 10s just go outlul
strange python
12+ atm
marsh bloom
I see now
daring imp
at 12 every trash pack dies before garrotes tick out???????
marsh bloom
outlu lmao
daring imp
what in the holy fucking god comp are you running
strange python
I dident say every
daring imp
well you said "90% of the time"
daring imp
that's what you wrote
supple wolf
Assa chat is by far best one
daring imp
just scroll up
and I quote
[4:02 AM] Roughbane: 3 garrote is a DMG waste 90% of the time
supple wolf
Relax this can also be a Christian chat. No cus
daring imp
i wanna understand
daring imp
how can it be a waste of time
because all my garrote dmg is 1/3 of overall dmg
and i usually am 14k ~ 16k overall
supple wolf
He already tested it, 90% of time it's a waste 
strange python
Echoing Blades (New) Fan of Knives damage is increased by [ 20 * (1 + 27 / 100.2 * (1 + 0.2).2) ]. For each of the first 5 critical strikes, it will fire a second spray of knives at that location, dealing [ 48 * (1 + 27 / 100.2 * (1 + 0.2).2) ] damage to enemies within 8 yards.
are you kidding or
am i reading this correctly
daring imp
even on the best trash killing freehold i've done today garrote was still like 25% of my dmg, seriously that tank and healer were so friggin' good, so many big pulls my ct was doing like almost 50% dmg on one single pull
safe matrix
Anyways, love each other and keep the trolling out of the spec channels
I get that it's a dead time of night and you're bored but no.
safe matrix
I meant more in general
marsh bloom
Isn't Exsg better if i'm using SS?
civic palm
Usually.
safe matrix
!warn @supple wolf trolling
daring imp
@strange python when seal of fate procs with fok, it sends another lil' fok on the guy that it proc'ed, limited by 5 extra lil' foks per cast? that's what i understood, not sure that damage will be goood tho @_@"
supple wolf
marsh bloom
now I understand why some dungeons i'm like
WHERE IS MY FUCKING ENERGY????
lol
so use to sub and just turning off my brain
daring imp
exsang helps out a bit with that
oh, also, you guys saw the atal dazar 19 naowh's team did?
supple wolf
I think him remembering poisons applied helps more
safe matrix
If you want to troll or are bored, go to #off-topic
safe matrix
This channel is meant to be helpful first priority
daring imp
marsh bloom
can you send me that ongbak?
I have a weakaura that says you're a fucking idiot when i'm not invis when theres a pull timer
daring imp
i got it from this one https://wago.io/BycCWhX4Q
civic palm
daring imp
imported it, deleted everything but the poison notifier
gotta put the file into the interface folder tho
marsh bloom
how do I download that one specific poison part ongbak
cause it just takes me to a download thingy
daring imp
well you download the file and put on the wow folder it says right besides the link
then you import the full wa in-game, delete everything but that poison notifier
fierce pivot
Does posion damage count as magic? being buffed by the DH debuff?
daring imp
i guess so, it's all nature dmg
marsh bloom
have to be in combat for it to show you not having poisons ongbak?
crisp hollow
1498.5 to wrap up the push week kms
are there any keys eventually that i would not play sin on
to optimize further?
spring chasm
Wcm isnt that nice for sin, bolstering shrine is also sub
chrome ledge
Would 370 scent of blood be worth using over 340 SS for m+?
crisp hollow
does the RH sub guide cover M+ decisions for gearing? i haven't touched azerite or anything for an offspec yet and idk what to be looking for (or if i might have it already!)
nimble cobalt
Deadshot for outlaw, first dance, inevitability for sub
Ace up your sleeve works for outlaw as well
daring imp
@marsh bloom for me, no, i think it shows anywhere, on combat or not
pine crag
Hi, I have a question regarding the engage. I read somewhere on reddit that someone did garrote -> rupture -> garrote when he goes out of stealth and with vanish (I have shrouded suffocation and subterfuge). I never considered that, is it how we should do? Thanks a lot!
strange python
yes, you can read about opener here: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/#rot
simple ice
Hi, I’ve been trying out assassin on the target dummies. There are times where I garrote and get a mut crit for a total of 5cp with toxic blade available and I don’t need to refresh rupture. Do I toxic blade before envenom or envenom followed by toxic blade immediately for this situation?
pine crag
Thanks @strange python :). Should I use exsanguinate over toxic blade with SS+subterfuge?
strange python
@pine crag you're gonna have to sim it, they are close depending on stats weights and traits
pine crag
Ok thx! Have to do it finally (I was too lazy but tonight is no raid night, Hope I don't forget to do it! Thanks and sorry for bothering!
rugged jetty
I have 1 or 2 so I still sim lower with ex
strange python
np man, there should be a sim guide under rules-and-guides channels
rugged jetty
385 shoulders and 370 chest
Sims shows 370 envenom chest over ss chest
And exang is always 5-600 dps loss
pine crag
Oh right I have also 1 SS, 1 archive and 1 generic azerite trait I think @rugged jetty . Definitely should sim then!
pine crag
And have some of you heard about breakpoint? especially in MM+ with the empowered garrote from SS+subterfuge?
lusty belfry
do you guys pool energy as assassin a lot?
pine crag
I wonder, other xpac I have seen that but not yet
lusty belfry
or do you try to keep mp up as much as possible
lusty belfry
i meant meticulous scheming or whatever
rugged jetty
I do before tb or if I'm going to vanish double gar rup
lusty belfry
the 4 second 10% finisher buff lol
pine crag
Ok 😃
manic coral
elaborate planning?
rugged jetty
Also question on races I be atm surprised on hero and blood mallet ots showing be being hood for sub and assa
pine crag
Yep I do only before one of the 3 CDs we have then, it's not so hard
spring chasm
elaborate planning
lusty belfry
thats the one lmfao
rugged jetty
Would of thought troll or orc would be better for pve
pine crag
!breakpoints
lusty belfry
so if vendetta, vanish, and tb are on CD, you guys just keep the energy depleted and spam mut/envenom?
pine crag
Yep 😃
simple ice
anyone able to help with my earlier question? (There are times where I garrote and get a mut crit for a total of 5cp with toxic blade available and I don’t need to refresh rupture. Do I toxic blade before envenom or envenom followed by toxic blade immediately for this situation?)
daring imp
@simple ice on that specific case, unless vendetta is up, i envenom > tb
pine crag
I'd go with Envenom -> TB and follow the "never lose any CP rule", but that's a rule of thumb from me
lusty belfry
would you envenom with TB buff and reset elaborate early?
daring imp
@pine crag not likely to have a breakpoint, but the more crit you have for m+, the smoother your cp regen will be if you run ct / scent of blood, for example
simple ice
so as long as envenom and toxic blade are back-to-back regardless of sequence?
daring imp
well i'd pool way more before popping that envenom tho
pine crag
@daring imp So there is not something like an additional garrote tick if we stack haste? Like other dot based spec
daring imp
assuming you'll be doing envenom > tb
like ... bleeds aren't an issue? no, so just hold the 5cp a bit, pool it and env > tb > mut to 4~5cp > env again asap
lusty belfry
should you stuff as many envenoms into TB as possible regardless of ep
daring imp
there is @pine crag , but as we have pandemic timers, the additional ticks aren't that much great for m+ because we are most of the time overcapping energy or with a positive energy regen because of multidot
regardless of fok/env/ct/rup/gar spam
pine crag
Ok nice, I will look at it then, I'm sure this extra tick of empowered garrote can bring lot of DMG in MM+ and isn't considered in sims since they are single target and you don't benefit of the extra tick as much since you keep the bleed rollings
daring imp
uh ... dunno what else to tell you aside from with 10% haste you get 1 extra garrote tick, but it definitely isn't as much extra dmg as you're thinking it will be
mb 11%*
pine crag
Ok , thanks for that number, It let me not have to search for it!
Yeah I understand, but if I'm at 11% haste it's valuable for MM+ to not lose that tick I think, or some reasoning like this
Thanks for all the informations!
daring imp
think about it from another angle
you're thinking 1 extra tick on 3x 18s garrotes will bring "a lot of dmg in m+" when your packs last 40s to 1min depending on week or tank
i personally think the more crit you have the better is the best rule to follow to m+
and mastery boots almost everything we do
also both fit what sims highest, whilst making sense
extra haste will leave you energy capped faster and without any way at all to spend all that energy coming in
rugged jetty
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kHs3xcxDv2MduQLvRWdj9C https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mRwEQxYz7JiKgWc5q1tVsz
pine crag
with 40s packs right
rugged jetty
i did change ring for toxic blade to one without haste
40s pack?
i just dont get it lol
@pine crag
that was top gear ect with tb and exan
exang seems to be 200+ dps loss even with 2 ss traits
hot flume
Hi guys
I've been convinced here to prepare for toxic blade (refresh rupture, pool energy for max envenoms)
main ice
@rugged jetty Your input is
Simulation Configs
iterations="100000"
fight_style="Patchwerk"
desired_targets="1"
max_time="300"
You have to change targets to 5 and max time to 40
hot flume
But from what I see here, toxic blade is just applied on CD, rupture refreshed during TB window....
Should I stick with what SimCraft says ?
main ice
In simulation options you can change number of bosses and fight length
rugged jetty
oh so im changing it to 5 bosses?
cyan stump
@hot flume its better to plan ahead to pool some energy before Toxic Blade is coming off CD. You still want to press TB when its off CD even if you dont have maximum energy
rugged jetty
and patchwerk still or what
main ice
y patchwerk will give you theorical max value if you compare sims with patchwerk always, it shouldn't be a problem
hot flume
@cyan stump So if you didn't plan it, too bad for you, hit it anyways ?
Ok will keep that in mind
frail vortex
silly question but is there any pvp guides for sin floating around?
frail vortex
only reason why i ask is because there's 2 different sets of talents on IV and wowhead
main ice
@rugged jetty it seems good but don't use hectic add cleave. It's more for a fight like Zek Voz. You can use patchwerk it's ok
rugged jetty
@main ice im not putting hectice i had it on patchwerk
warm sable
@hot flume he did rapture because it was prob going down sometimes if u see dot is going of you don't do 2 envenoms after TB ... u do 1 and than reaply bleed.
frail vortex
no one?
cyan stump
@frail vortex Check the pvp section in discord
hot flume
@warm sable Maintaining the rupture is more important than 2nd envenom. Do I need to refresh in pandemic or just before it falls off is fine ?
warm sable
Maintaining bleeds is prio at least for me or if u think you can reaply it 1 sec later you can go with 2 envenom... just before it falls is best options i think. @hot flume
@frail vortex PvP talents are 1233121
Sometimes u can use Vigor instead Mfd and the PvP ones are 1.Trinket 2.Deadly brew 3.System Shock 4.Bomb or if u dont need Smoke bomb than Sreeping venom @frail vortex
hot flume
@warm sable ok and is it worth to refresh Rupture, whatever time is left on the dot to avoid refreshing it during TB window and pull out two envenoms ?
daring imp
@rugged jetty overwhelming power mah man
rugged jetty
lol
daring imp
@hot flume well yea if rupture is falling during tb it's unfortunate, the logic sim follows is tb on cd asap if i'm not mistaken
wooden island
I seem to get beatn on trash but i rape on bosses
sturdy python
Should be pretty normal gyogo, at least until you get to keys that trash lasts long enough for dots to really shine
ruby idol
I need a bigger weapon so I can try outlaw in wc
Sub feels ok but I think outlaw might actually be the play
hot flume
@daring imp yeah but that was my question. Shall we refresh rupture before entering TB no matter the time left or it's not worth ?
ruby idol
I mean theres a lot of pretty meaningless damage in wc so overall is def not the best indicator, but itll be worth playing around with
daring imp
@hot flume you'll only have a definite answer if you do a simc setup that do exactly what you want to know, it's too hard to know for sure, like what if you still have 10s? will you have enough cp/energy at the end to keep rupture up?
is it worth to do low cp ones for those scenarios? should you delay tb? following the rule "tb on cd" you'll eventually end up with rupture needing to be refreshed within tb, MAYBE doing a 5cp refresh before popping tb when rupture is at 8~10s duration should be worth it? no clue for sure tho
hot flume
@daring imp scenario : TB is off CD in 5s, rupture has 15 sec. Refresh rupture, build CP for TB and enter tw window
daring imp
you'll be losing ~3s of rupture and the energy bank you'd have beforehand that is crucial for tb by doing that, if your haste is high enough you might be able to pull off a mid cp rupture at the end
rugged jetty
i dont get how to sim with raidbots 5 boss on patchwerk
it keeps doing hectic add cleave
daring imp
you mean this?
daring imp
lul
daring imp
40s~1min to sim m+ trash packs
winter gale
Is it better to have 2x Archieve than 1archieve + 1laser?
winter gale
I dont feel like laser is good. In open world it also pulls not needed mobs and stuff.
daring imp
ye
also turn off bloodlust for the m+ trash pack sim
@winter gale usually highest ilvl wins between those
unless you have much better 385 traits to use and a lower ilvl uldir piece
winter gale
I will go for 1x SS 2xArchieve. All 3 items 370*
daring imp
laser is solid ~3% dmg, almost a poison bomb, tho if i could pick i'd always pick archive because of agi stacking
winter gale
I am not up to date for like last few days or a week even, I am not sure wich ones are best atm and wich combo of traits i should pick. I am using 3xSS ones in m+, 1 370ilvl and 2 340ilvl.
I preffer ss opener.
daring imp
ss is still great for m+
many of the top sin rougers still run one or another 340/345 piece
ruby idol
If the keys you're doing are like below 15 I'd play with 3 ss still