assassination

[drifting elbow]

there was chest for tuesday on horde side as long u didnt do them asap before

[strange python]

Alliance 😄

[half ginkgo]

Alliance 😄

[gusty yoke]

Still using 325shoulders cause only piece with ss a

[drifting elbow]

[gusty yoke]

And freehold shoulders just dont drop

[drifting elbow]

i would have used any 340 piece

[proud tusk]

Ugh i just want the SS-head

1 chance per week for 340, 1 minimal chance per week from M+ cache

[gusty yoke]

Ive got vectis head and warfront chest

So atleast my other azerites are high ilvl

[proud tusk]

I got 385 DD-chest (using 340 SS-chest), 370 Twist-shoulders (using 340 SS-shoulders) & 340 Twist-head

my ilvl is crying

[gusty yoke]

I would take the 370 twists over the ss

[proud tusk]

SS sims way better fro M+

[gusty yoke]

Double twist with tb sounds pretty good

[proud tusk]

Its decent on Tyrannical weeks

[slender smelt]

!ss

they fixed it?

[pearl meteor]

Yea

[hybrid thicket]

Does everyone run one uldir trait ?

[spice surge]

Yes because otherwise you miss out on tons of stats

If you've been clearing uldir every week you'd miss out on 450 of your highest secondary stat if you didnt use one uldir trait

[candid thorn]

See, that's why I play a lot of alts to keep the value of reorigination array low

[viscid pawn]

Should u delay exan 15 sec for galecaller?

[spice surge]

No

[viscid pawn]

Some do, some dont

Mhh

[spice surge]

Simc shows it to be a loss

[tranquil marlin]

How many ilvl on azerite gear is worth droping for SS in m+? Considering the higher azerite piece has a good trait on it like twist the knife/double dose

Hard to sim it, SS value on raidbots is realy low because of no restealthibg

[drifting elbow]

TTK doesnt usually get much use on trashpacks

that is if pack is big

[lone hamlet]

Does simc calculate the stacks from titans ? I mean I’ve been raiding for two weeks, is archive in this case worth using ?

[spice surge]

If you tell it to in the options

[tranquil marlin]

Yeah i know! But 30 ilvl means more agi which is also a good portion of more aoe dmg

[drifting elbow]

sim does calculate

[summer marten]

it does if you paste input from addon

[drifting elbow]

u can turn it off if u want

[summer marten]

otherwise you have to turn it on manually

[lone hamlet]

So I should just sim myself

Lol

[drifting elbow]

DD trait with extra agi probably is more dps than SS low ilvl azerite

but if that SS lose means no SS

not ideal

[lone hamlet]

So the people that didn’t start raining from the beginning, they’ve lost this additional stats forever ?

[tranquil marlin]

So you would always use a 340 SS piece over an 370 piece with dose/ttk for m+? Regarding the higher agi

[drifting elbow]

it rises up as long u kill bosses aemond

[lone hamlet]

But max 3 per week

As far as I know

[drifting elbow]

i think

not sure if it got catch up system to be on same level as first runners

but at least it stacks as long u kill bosses even if u never got that raid trait equipped

[lone hamlet]

Blizzard in a nutshell

[drifting elbow]

🤷

[quaint sequoia]

on mythic vectis should I mut or FoK with add up? got no DD

[drifting elbow]

no FoK at all if no 3 mobs

[gusty yoke]

4 if you have 2dd traits right?

[hidden dirge]

What are you guys thinking of 1x SoB paired with 2x SS in M+? Is this still the way to go?

[drifting elbow]

i've been only informed it being 3 FoK spreading poisons and at 4+ FoK all the time

no clue what amount is FoK with DD

[lone hamlet]

Amount of targets

3 fok to apply poisons then mut

4 targets fok all the time

[drifting elbow]

seems solid sedex

[fresh nexus]

Hi guys is there a %cap for haste? If I change some pieces I can have 25%crit /19%haste/24%mastery/1%vers . Should I drop haste?

[drifting elbow]

yea but some ppl said there is difference with FoK when u got DD traits

🤷

no caps zasso

[fresh nexus]

Thanks

[fossil quiver]

but does it make sense? im very fine with like 14%-16% haste (single target)

[warm parcel]

What make sense?

[fossil quiver]

he asked for haste cap and said he got like 19%. So my question was if it has a sense to get over 16% haste

[drifting elbow]

i mean, its still more energy from haste

[warm parcel]

Why would 16% be a number even

[solid nova]

Depends what your stat weights tell you 🤷🏼

[warm parcel]

You just use what sims higher

[solid nova]

16% makes no more or less sense than 19%

[warm parcel]

And haste is generally that

[drifting elbow]

my galecaller trinket made my haste drop to favor other stats tho

[warm parcel]

I have 22% haste inside raid

[orchid berry]

hey guys, I see musclebrah running 3SS (as expected) with 3 Heeds as secondary traits, how much better is Heed for M+ than OP. Got 370 SS piece with OP, but was wondering if it was worth going to 340SS with HMC

[drifting elbow]

heed is kinda trap

running a lot of m+ with 2-3 heeds

total dmg ok

but for each boss and trash pack dps

nearly nonexistent

[orchid berry]

alright, good to know. Thanks a lot for the answer!

[summer marten]

i have 26% haste with array and haste is still nr1 stat

[drifting elbow]

ofc it is

[summer marten]

so plenty of sense going over

[drifting elbow]

but i guess that outcome comes from pure ST?

where haste is at its strongest

[fossil quiver]

i should try out... but my experience with haste wasnt that good, after ive changed my stat weights i got plenty more dmg... but there where many nerfs at this time. so i should give it a try

[drifting elbow]

it is pretty good

but thats mainly raids tho

m+ likes other stats a lot

[summer marten]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sGg2Qwu868jRGtUjEszcW5

[strange python]

Do we have a 18k SIM? Is it even poss?

[hollow cloud]

probably

[strange python]

17k+ is still the highest i have seen

[summer marten]

But that is exsang build, that one loves haste

[hollow cloud]

idk

I can check my sims

yeh only 17.3

0 SS

[sacred seal]

Can you post it pls?

[hollow cloud]

can prob be higher with gem optimization

but honestly cba doing that

[sacred seal]

Ty

[hollow cloud]

Richard I feel disgusting for posting my sims now

[nimble tartan]

I'm gonna run triple archive only from now on

[hollow cloud]

If I had the chance to run triple SS, thatd be great

Or atleast double SS

[marble oxide]

Close enough!
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xjTvoa8yLB1QvrdgiQSggK

[hollow cloud]

Holy

[clear harbor]

What the actual fuck

Wp only

[wheat zealot]

Zemco has an 18k sim

[edgy latch]

ive seen a 18k sim here

[wheat zealot]

^

[hollow cloud]

was it an exsang build

i hope it was

[lament ore]

Is SS still worth one trait or do you just double down on x2 DD?

And go toxic blade

[clear harbor]

Depends on situation - raid, m+, with your gf in bed?

[hollow cloud]

idk, i just play SS cause DD is boring

[wary ether]

is there a good multidotting addon ?

im overwhelmed during m+

[hollow cloud]

maybe tidyplates can do something for u

or some WA

[wary ether]

yeah probably a good idea to get some better nameplates

running wow default right now ^^

[clear harbor]

Elvui has clean nameplates

[wary ether]

i dont need all the frills tho

just name plates

[hollow cloud]

I dont have a standalone addon unfortunately for multi dotting, probably exists but dont have one

[lament ore]

@clear harbor just M+ and raiding

[split oracle]

Im using kui nameplates and it's easy to track multiple dots with those nameplates

imo

[wary ether]

ill checkout kui and tidyplates

thanks!

[marble oxide]

@lament ore in m+ u should always use atleast 1 ss, for raiding it depends on bosses, if you can cleave it could be strong

[wary ether]

now if only i wasnt so lazy and had some azerite lvls 😄

[clear harbor]

@lament ore imo for m+ i go ss all the way. For raiding i go archive, ss and something Else

[terse crescent]

whats your azerite levels? as long as you have the first two circles it shouldnt be that bad

[hollow cloud]

I think you need 23 no? To unlock 2nd azerite on all pieces cant remember

[terse crescent]

depends on the ilvl

[inner pecan]

23 is all you need

[clear harbor]

For normal its 23

[hollow cloud]

Yeah I forgot which level you need for mythic

[inner pecan]

23 for all 2nd row on 385

[hollow cloud]

and HC

ah ok

[inner pecan]

you won't have defensive traits till like 28 though

for 385

[lament ore]

@clear harbor atm I am simming higher with archive, DD with toxic blade. Hopefully I’ll get lucky on some AP pieces

[wary ether]

My neck is 365

i think thats lvl 21

[hollow cloud]

yeh I dont believe in defensive traits, dont need those traits if im on bench anyway

[terse crescent]

you can see the level on the neck

[inner pecan]

the prydaz trait is huge

for prog

[clear harbor]

@lament ore so keep whats simming higher and adapt your playstyle

[terse crescent]

in your character tab

[wary ether]

not ingame currently

^^

[inner pecan]

double prydaz trait healed me for 458k on our Mythic G'huun kill

it's actually insane

[lament ore]

@clear harbor Yeah I know, just was curious on the DD stacking v SS overall.

[hollow cloud]

Yeah I have 2x currently, hopefully I'll get on the next ghuun kill 💤

[clear harbor]

I hate my life. Are some of you guys running at hc ghunn?

[hollow cloud]

Benchwarmer is life

[lament ore]

I’m always running Ghuun

[clear harbor]

Runninh i mean the orbs ofc

[terse crescent]

cant impassive visage potentially heal for more than prydaz trait

[inner pecan]

impassive doesn't proc off of any damage

it's kind of weird

[lament ore]

I play sub specifically for the double step. Getting them 12 second dunks

[inner pecan]

but it definitely doesn't proc every 6s like you would think

[terse crescent]

yeah you dont take damage every 6 sec either necessarily

[inner pecan]

well on g'huun you do

but look at this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396202533733007370/497736612638228482/impassive.png

[terse crescent]

and if its bugged thats even worse

[inner pecan]

it barely procs at all

[terse crescent]

what do you think of the aoe-ish shield

Bulwark

[inner pecan]

meh

[terse crescent]

ive never picked it

[inner pecan]

situational

resounding protection is best defensive trait by far

[clear harbor]

Why is everyone so focused on the wcl score. Holy fuck

[pearl meteor]

Impassive seems to proc fine for tanks?

[inner pecan]

for tanks yes

melees seem to proc it

[pearl meteor]

Ye

[inner pecan]

but some damage instances don't proc it

[pearl meteor]

Idk its weird

[inner pecan]

so it definitely doesn't proc every 6s for dps

[pearl meteor]

Yea

[terse crescent]

uhh that was a wcl for the procs of a defensive trait and not parse ranking

[inner pecan]

6 procs over a 9 minute fight is insanely bad lol

like worthless-level

[pearl meteor]

Did you stay sin for kill?

[inner pecan]

ye

[terse crescent]

i was refering to the guy saying people are obsessed with wcl score and assumed it was in regards to the log you posted

i agree with what youre saying famo

[inner pecan]

ye ik I was just expanding my point 😛

[clear harbor]

@terse crescent no sorry was not refering to the screenshot he posted.

[terse crescent]

my mistake

just looked like it there with your comment after what he posted

[safe tusk]

Bleeds don't snap shot right? So I should in the opener, I should vanish 2xGarrote after the original SS garrote fell off?

[pearl meteor]

Mhm

[safe tusk]

(it wouldn't be in vendetta buff anymore)

[pearl meteor]

Exsang snapshots

🙃

[safe tusk]

I'm going TB since it sims higher for me

So yeah I guess i'll just vanish 2x garrote after the first one falls off

[pearl meteor]

Ye

[safe tusk]

Thx dude

[inner pecan]

you're playing Subt/TB?

you should vanish before it falls off with Subt/TB

pandemic it

[safe tusk]

yeah

[inner pecan]

or else none of your vanishes will align with Vendetta anymore

if you let it fall off your vanish will be outside of Vendetta

then you'll have to hold Vendetta to re-align

[pearl meteor]

👀

[safe tusk]

Shouldn't we just let SS fall off on it's own and not pandemic it?

[inner pecan]

this is only for the first vanish in opener

[pearl meteor]

Yo famo dm me rq if u can

[inner pecan]

if you do that you are un-aligning your vendetta/vanish

u can do that but it means you'll have to hold vendetta like 10s

if u don't miss a vendetta cast at the end of the fight it's okay

[safe tusk]

I'm usually getting like >10 sec uptime on my last vendetta

depending on bosses ofc

[inner pecan]

it just depends

btw did u sim MA/TB?

or you're playing SS with TB/

[safe tusk]

I've haven't checked MA at all

i'll sim it now

I've only simmed Subt+TB and Exsan

my traits are DD+SS+Archive

[inner pecan]

MA is competitive for non-SS TB builds

[ember coral]

How to sim for M+ please ?

[safe tusk]

I usually go patchwerk 3 targets 3 min

[ember coral]

patchwerk 3 bosses ?

[safe tusk]

Yeah. I'm sure there are better ways to sim it with custom APLs.

[inland gull]

guys for m+ would u use 340ss shoulder or 385 with env/rezan fury trait?

[ember coral]

Okay thanks, anyway, thats just for choosing trinket right ? i mean nothing else change

[brisk forge]

Patch 4-6 bosses 40 sec no buffs for M+

[tulip wedge]

im actually really liking the MA/TB setup more than subt. especially without any high SS trait

[clear harbor]

@ember coral i would sim 5 bosses 40 sec no buffs

[ember coral]

Ok thanks you 😃

[lone hamlet]

What does mean snapshot ?

[keen urchin]

Means the damage of the dots will scale off of the stats you had when you applied them for their whole duration

and it won't change dynamically with your stat changes

[lone hamlet]

All the dots work like that ?

[inner pecan]

no

only haste for Exsg bleeds

everything else updates dynamically

[main ice]

Hey guys, kinda new to the whole rogue thingy :). I've read ravenholdt but I still have some questions.

1. I though the opener was Garrote > Mutilate > Rupture but I've seen it's Garrote > Rupture > Garrote again. What is the benefit from double garrote ? Is it just to extend its duration while still buffed by subt ? (I have only one SS)
2. I've read that you have to wait for Vendetta to Vanish again. Is it always true ? If it is, do you Vendetta before the vanish + double garrote ?
3. TB must be used on CD if I've read it correctly (not even wait for vendetta) but for exsg, do you wait for vendetta (like for 1 of 3 exsg) ?

[warm parcel]

Openers are listed there according to the circumstances.

You pair ven and van always

Tb is just on cd just like exs

[pearl meteor]

The double gar is with ss

Exsang u hold ven/van for it

Use it on cd

Itll line up with 4th one

After 10-15s

[main ice]

Ok thank you both. For the double garrote, Is it only to refresh/extend the garrote duration ?

[pearl meteor]

Yea

[main ice]

Ok I understand

[warm parcel]

It also gives plenty free cps

[main ice]

yeah you're right without loosing 1 CP of double garrote before Rupture

And for multi target, you alway apply 3 garrote without putting any Rupture even if it means loosing 4 CP ?

[warm parcel]

Yes

[main ice]

Ok perfect, thank you

[warm parcel]

Ss makes garrote a super strong global

Regardless of cps and what not

[drifting elbow]

been wondering if u rupture after 2g and then third one tho

doesnt third g still get subterfuge

[runic ferry]

system shock nerf live yet

on EU?

[drifting elbow]

should be live

[main ice]

Well I don't know since you have around 1.5s GCD, you shouldn't be able to put 2 Garrote and a rupture during the 3s subt, no ?

[drifting elbow]

idk, i still see stealth bar right at same time i do that

[desert vault]

Anyone around able to take a look at a log of mine? Trying to see what big things I'm doing wrong

[main ice]

@drifting elbow Oh ok I'll try to take a closer look

[drifting elbow]

i guess i should check if my third g gets benefict anyway

[main ice]

One thing I look is if the garrote get the CD

if it's then it wasn't in the subt duration

[spice surge]

@main ice Rogue gcd is always 1 second

Doesn't scale with haste

[clear harbor]

I get like 3 garrots and a rup during the stealth window 🤔

[spice surge]

You don't

[main ice]

Oh ok, so theorically you could

[spice surge]

No

Because you only have 3 seconds to cast 4 spells with 1 second gcd

[main ice]

But the first is not counting

[spice surge]

Yes it is

[main ice]

OOh yes sry

the GCD counts

indeed

[spice surge]

Because the timer starts then

After the first you have 2 seconds

[main ice]

you're right

[summer marten]

you can get 3 garrote and rupture, but 3rd garrote wont be boosted

[wheat zealot]

Lmao wut

[summer marten]

if you do it 2g+r+g

[main ice]

But I guess 3 buffed garrote are better than 2 buffed and a rupture

[wheat zealot]

Why would u rupture in subterfuge window in aoe

[summer marten]

someone asked because it would be 4 cp, not to waste it

i wouldnt...

[wheat zealot]

Emp garrote >cp

[bright shale]

I did it. 90th percentile taloc parse

Feels good man

[summer marten]

but because they get that 3rd garrote, they think they managed to fit it in, but because first 2 didnt cause cd to start, you do get 3rd after rupture, its just not boosted

[main ice]

Y ok but since subt doesn't boost rupture, it better to have 3 emp garrote than 2 emp + 1 normal garrote i guess

[summer marten]

yes

[main ice]

okok

[bright shale]

Where are you doing the 3 garrotes

[main ice]

multi targetting

[bright shale]

Oh ok

Yeah 3x then a 5cp dump rupture

You go over in cp but its worth

[shrewd bane]

what the fuck

i just saw someone with a 375 heroic helmet ?

how ?

[bright shale]

Chest

Or pvp

And boost item

[shrewd bane]

heroic and pvp ? nah

[high siren]

on zekvoz mythic, when adds pop, do you exsang on boss or neeubian ? 😮

[shrewd bane]

and azerite pieces can't roll

[summer marten]

if they have last trait... its +5ilvl

[shrewd bane]

titanforged or warforged

[high siren]

nerubian *

[shrewd bane]

oh right

thanks ahaha

forgot that

379 neck oO

[summer marten]

that would do 😛

[bright shale]

you guys wanna get triggered.

The worst hunter in my guild has a 395 tf socket galecallers

[karmic ingot]

Is galecallers even good for hunter?

[bright shale]

Why not

[odd compass]

Surv bis

[bright shale]

Ah LOL

[crisp steppe]

gonna be waiting a mighty long time

[bright shale]

Yap lol

[hollow cloud]

he said hunter, not meme

its ok for BM iirc

[desert vault]

Running TB and 1xSS is it best to Van > G > G > Envenom for your 2nd+ Vanish cast?

I'm so confused how I'm SO far behind other rogues at my ilvl on some fights. Looking at a log with a guy bursting at 60k on his second Vanish, I'm at 30k

[quiet spruce]

hey, is anyone available to have a loot at my logs and tell me what i could improve on?

have a look*

it's most likely my rotation, since im wearing top simmed gear/talents

or maybe i need new azerite combinations

[desert vault]

All I know is I need wayyyyyy better gear, holy crap

[quiet spruce]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2qzxc67QWwVpdGvF/#boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2&view=rankings

I'm Nerium

died on taloc both times, and got DCed for zul =S

a lot of top rogues are using subterfuge and at least one shrouded suffocation

the highest piece i have for SS is 870 chest, and every ST combinaiton ive simmed results in my 385 DD with MA better

[bright shale]

So what fights do you want us to look at

[fleet acorn]

If you want a 60k burst you obviously need to have 2-3 ss +exsng , i doubt tb can go further than 30-35k on solo even with 385 mh

[quiet spruce]

lets start with vectic

[desert vault]

I either need a ton more crit or have the worst luck in the world ... my fetid heroic vs yours @quiet spruce 21% vs 40% crit envenoms ... every log i'm looking at has 40% envenom crit it feels like

[quiet spruce]

but mother, mythrx even g'huun could be much better

for assa at least, (taloc i died, so cant really look at it? or is it still possible)

[bright shale]

The log is being funny on my phone but

[quiet spruce]

i dont have much crit @desert vault ill link my raidbots, sec

[bright shale]

7 toxic blade casts is bad

[desert vault]

I saw it @quiet spruce

[bright shale]

I feel like you should have way more

[desert vault]

677 crit, yet you still doubled my envenom crit %

[bright shale]

The uptime tab isnt coming up for me. What is your rupture and garrote uptime %

That's likely something else you did wrong

[desert vault]

68/67 for Vectis

[quiet spruce]

hmm, ill take a look @bright shale I have no idea how to logs, so gimme a sec while i try and figure it out

[desert vault]

oh @nymh logs

[quiet spruce]

okay, I have two confusions about assa rottation if i can get it cleared out

[bright shale]

Sure

[quiet spruce]

because of seal fate i often find my self with 5 combo points with my toxic blade just coming of CD

now befroe, i would still use TB and then envenom

but now im waiting

[bright shale]

Seal fate for ass?

[quiet spruce]

ya

[bright shale]

No dont waste any cps

If you are 5cp

Envenom or garrote

Then tb

[quiet spruce]

okay good, so that might be a reason that my use of TB is lower

[bright shale]

Always TB on cd

Dont try to be a pro and line shit up

You'll do more bad than good

[quiet spruce]

so by saying TB on CD, you mean even if i have 5 cp?

[bright shale]

No

Spend the cps

Then tb

[quiet spruce]

right right

okay

[bright shale]

Dont waste cp generation

Ever

[quiet spruce]

got it

[bright shale]

NNothing in the rotation needs 5cp

4 or 5 is fine

[quiet spruce]

now for TB on CD, lets say im at 0 CP, assuming i dont crit, i can potentially do Mut x2 > TB x1

but that's not technically ussing TB on CD

[bright shale]

I would TB mute mute

[quiet spruce]

so do i TB x1

AHHHHh

seee

i didnt do that

i never did that

what's the theory behind that rotaion?

[bright shale]

The uptime of the TB debuff

Adds passive dmg

From auto attacks too

Its more than face value

While mute is just raw dmg

[quiet spruce]

ahhh, see i was mainly concerened about trying to fit in envenom x3 into tb window

[bright shale]

No just TB on cd

[quiet spruce]

so i would pool energy at 4cp and wait to use my TB

[bright shale]

And dont waste

[quiet spruce]

got it

[bright shale]

I think MAYBE that kind of thing can make a difference above

95 percentile

[drifting elbow]

i mean pooling bit of energy for TB is optimal

[quiet spruce]

im excited, i wonder how much of a difference this will be, nevermind the fact that it's easier as well

[bright shale]

But you're ar 60 70

So just using tb

Will help

[quiet spruce]

okay gotcha gotcha

now for Master Assassin, i don't like using this over subterfuge, but it does sim higher by quite a bit

[bright shale]

Do you run SS

[quiet spruce]

no

[bright shale]

Then MA

[quiet spruce]

like i said, i have 370 SS vs. 385 DD

[drifting elbow]

MA does affect how u do TB during that tho..

[quiet spruce]

for my highest SS piece

[bright shale]

I dont know the ma opener so I cant help you there

I run ss

[drifting elbow]

long story short, build to 3-4, TB,vanish, envenoms

[quiet spruce]

i think ppl on here said for opening from stealth while usiing MA, just go with garrote > mut > rup, or something along those lines, but im thinking garroting and rupturing is a waste of MA buff

[desert vault]

Blah, sometimes this game makes me want to break things!

heh

[quiet spruce]

wouold it be better to start with mut./TB/env while starting off stealth?

[drifting elbow]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[drifting elbow]

just check rotation for MA talent

[quiet spruce]

see, i dont understand why we garroting and rupturing

with MA buff

is it that much better to have garrote and rup on your target asap than using the MA buff to crit on your env?

[fathom lynx]

You're wasting energy regen from the bleeds VS crit from MA buff. Dots can also crit

[desert vault]

another week and zero heroic azerite pieces from raid, not a one ... rip mythic raiding this tier

[quiet spruce]

i know dots can crit, but only a tic or two of them will crit, but i can have the full benefit of a 5 CP env to crit, atleast, that was my thinking,

not arguing btw, jsut trying to figure out how they arrived at this roation

[drifting elbow]

u do know that most of MA talent strenghts come from vanishes?

opener itself isnt that super important for MA

[hollow stone]

Dot uptime is more important than a 3 sec crit window

[quiet spruce]

rightt, so basically, dont worry about MA on opener?

[hollow stone]

Thats it

Theres no magic

[quiet spruce]

okay got it

see, i just wanted to know taht

if anyone did the testing, and guess ppl have to say it

so just follow the opener from the guide, and only worry about MA when i vanish

got it

[desert vault]

If anyone wants to shed any light https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FrMY61P8nAhBDLKa#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=10 (mine) vs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/F8cCKqdnYzLMHP7Z#fight=2&type=summary&source=17 (comparison)

or https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FrMY61P8nAhBDLKa#fight=24&type=damage-done&source=10 (mine) vs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cdR6Cj3ZtXyHJQnm#fight=7&type=damage-done&source=19 (comparison)

just trying to sort out what big stuff I'm missing cause my parses make me want to quit the game, again 😛

[fathom lynx]

Regarding your earlier discussion about when to use TB with 0 CP, what I did in legion was mut > TB > mut/envenom depending on crits. That way you can probably squeeze in another envenom or at least get the buff up earlier in the TB window

[desert vault]

i've checked my talent sims, TB is still over Exsang on the sim tables at least

[drifting elbow]

thats how it still is on bfa rotation

just putting it on cd without pooling anything is pretty waste of dmg potential

[quiet spruce]

@fathom lynx okay, ill try that vs using TB at 0 CP off CD thanks

[solid nova]

@desert vault Why do you hold TB for so long?

[quiet spruce]

well tahts what i thought, i was trying to pool, but maybe not to this extent or at all for my parses to improve

[drifting elbow]

if u r capping energy, its going too far

[desert vault]

I dunno, prolly trying to pool energy for it I guess

[quiet spruce]

no, lol i dont go to that extent

[solid nova]

You're missing entire cast(s) over that fight

[drifting elbow]

afaik u dont lose anything with waiting 3 sec for energy to reach decent level with 3CP

[solid nova]

Pooling is a matter of seconds not 20+ 😄

[desert vault]

@solid nova Oh ok 😛

[quiet spruce]

so my envenom is myy top DPS, i see top rogues have garrote as top dps (mainly because they have subterfuge and SS trait) but why in the world are they going for SS trait

i know its a go sim yo self question

[drifting elbow]

its usually at least one in high ilvl piece

[quiet spruce]

but i consistenly see SS traits a lot for bosses

[desert vault]

@solid nova I'm looking at the two Fetid logs I linked, mine and the other, we both had 6 TB casts though. Fight length 3:00 vs 2:51

[drifting elbow]

u can get one high ilvl azerite from raid boss that has SS

so i guess its pretty easy to have that

[quiet spruce]

ya, i just looked it up, the fetid chest is the only piece that has SS

[desert vault]

The thing I feel like I'm missing is just RNG maybe, on those two Fetid logs his 6 TB casts had crit 50% for 86.9k, my 6 TB casts 16.7% for 64.8k ...

Same thing with envenom: Mine 26 casts, 19.2% crit, 400k vs His 25 casts, 40% crit, 653k 😦

My uptimes are all better than the log I linked. Garrote, Rupture, and DP are all higher ...

[warm parcel]

Thats why its a higher parse

[desert vault]

Maybe it just comes down to better azerite gear I suppose. He had two SS and a twist, mine is trash. 1x SS at like 340, archive at 355, and poison wire at 370 ...

hopefully that is all it is and my overall play and rotation are not completely broken

I guess I should redo my rings with crit instead of haste, someday i'll get a piece of gear with a socket, someday

and my mastery is through the damn roof, 850 vs 550 on the Fetid log. crit 700 vs 1100, haste 1400 vs 1100 so that is a big part of it too I'm sure

I dunno, I guess if anyone looks at the logs anytime and sees any big holes I've got in my rotation just let me know. Also with TB and 1x SS if I'm supposed to Vanish > Gar > Gar > Evenom /or/ Vanish > Gar > Envenom > Gar /or/ Vanish > Gar > TB > Gar. That would be helpful, I've seen logs of all three ways, not sure if one or another is better.

[stable oxide]

Elinkar, you also need to keep in consideration that fights are different for every group.. Alot of situational stuff happening

[warm parcel]

Vanish is all about the second row

So what you pick there dictates vanish

[stable oxide]

one thing I see is that bloodlust and vendetta weren't fully up on the same time

[desert vault]

@stable oxide I know, I was just trying to really focus on logs with similar ilvl, traits, talents and duration to make it as accurate as possible

[stable oxide]

which will decrease your damgae aswell

[desert vault]

Yeah I knew I was missing that, cause it was a half-guide group and they weren't taking it very serious. I'm just trying to get caught back up to get back into mythic after being gone several months

[stable oxide]

Half of your vendetta was outside of the bloodlust duration

are you prepotting?

didnt check that

[desert vault]

I didn't prepot, no cause it was just heroic which can hurt a bit as well

I'm just trying to make sure my rotation/casts/etc are ok

I think it is from what I've been reading and comparing logs

[placid relic]

is lazer matrix to risky in m+? anyone tested? does it ninjapull alot or break cc?

[desert vault]

@placid relic Yeah it can do that for sure

I avoid running it unless I'm desperate, just 1x SS and 1x Scent or 2x SS and 1x Archive are pretty great

[stable oxide]

Well

[placid relic]

ok thx 😃

[stable oxide]

If you don't use a pot at all, don't expect to get high parses

The guy on the other log use a pot during his second vendetta while bloodlust is up. Whichi gave him spike of 60k dps

your spike was 30k

without pot

[desert vault]

Right, well he has 2x SS too which is going to help a lot I'm sure

Hi garrote damage was almost 2x mine 😃

His

[stable oxide]

Yup indeed

[main ice]

Well @stable oxide is right, if you're gonna compare logs, put all you can during the fight, cause others will 😃

[stable oxide]

Did you have a flask at least :P?

and foodbuff

[desert vault]

I guess I wasn't comparing the parses as much, should not have said that. More worried about how my general log LOOKS than anything, so was comparing it to other peoples of similar ilvl, time, etc

[stable oxide]

cause these comparisons are just not fair 😛 simply because of those factors.

[desert vault]

I think I did, I don't remember 😛

[stable oxide]

yeah okay

[main ice]

So don't compare dmg but only casts

[desert vault]

I might take off my haste enchants on my rings and swap to crit

[stable oxide]

what

no

[desert vault]

oh ok

[stable oxide]

how much haste do you hav?

have*

how much %

[desert vault]

1155, 17%

[stable oxide]

yeah I would keep the haste still

you should sim it though

[desert vault]

21% crit and stupid amounts of mastery at 31%

er, 33% mastery 😐

[stable oxide]

but I highly doupt anything will be better then haste

what are your traits?

[desert vault]

TB and Subterfuge

Sims best and I enjoy the play style best as well

[cerulean depot]

Crit overtakes haste for me when I am under 25% crit

Yday had weird SIM where mastery was on top

[stable oxide]

okay

I find that hard to believe xD but okay 😛

[desert vault]

I'm running stats now to check, I have a haste>mast ring and crit>haste ring. Might swaps the haste>mast over the crit>haste just cause i'm so mastery heavy

mastery is nice for m+, but for raid maybe go with the other ring or something

[stable oxide]

Elinkar, do you know the site raidbots?

raidbots.com

[desert vault]

21 crit and 33 mast one way, 25 crit and 28 mast the other way

I am 😃

[stable oxide]

You can sim everything

[desert vault]

I know, but I sometimes like to put a little human thought into as well, makes me feel less like a robot! 😄

Probably a bad idea

[stable oxide]

Well

[desert vault]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fqBdfJ2BmpYGHAFsvTUBtp

[stable oxide]

If you think your human thought is going to outsmart a computer 😛

[cerulean depot]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3SwBYqfY5Wxm9HxmuQaDcu

Explain those stat weights pls

[desert vault]

Going to run my weights with my other ring to see what it says

Woah ... yeah ... 😛

[surreal rivet]

@cerulean depot why are u simmin 300 seconds?

[desert vault]

WTF, must suck having so few sockets ... 😐

heh

[fathom lynx]

@cerulean depot didnt mastery start getting real good around this time of legion as well

[cerulean depot]

@surreal rivet default sim time is 300

[desert vault]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2MF1KPEFftDvtyAjcLMMrd

that is my other set with the haste > mast ring instead of crit > haste ring

[stable oxide]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear

@desert vault just do topgear

[desert vault]

@gloomy gardenlidon I do

[stable oxide]

okay

statweight is more for the pawn addon

[desert vault]

Yep

[fathom lynx]

@desert vault I looked at your Fetid log where you got a green rank and I noticed on the replay that each time (save the last where you finally shadowstepped mid-flight) you're getting knocked back quite far, which is another dps loss. Besides that I'm not sure what else needs to be said really, people have covered most parts

[stable oxide]

^

On fetid specifically you can indeed shadowstep during the pushback

If you see him cast his pushback be ready to press shadowstep as soon as possible after the pushback

then you can basically shadowstep when you are in midair

and avoid downtime on the boss

[desert vault]

Ok, but I wasn't missing TB casts? Richard said I was holding it too long, but I had 6 casts which is what I saw on other logs?

[fathom lynx]

And I think that's in general a reason why people go from purple/blue ranks to green on movement heavy fights, is because they do not properly plan movement ahead; they're just looking at abilities. At least my guild is pretty shitty on fights where they need to think ahead, but perform okay on fights like taloc

I'll have another look

[desert vault]

Yeah I knew I was dogging it on the step ... I was playing bad most of the night overall

[stable oxide]

If you want to check your rotation. take a fight like Taloc

check on that

thats the closest to a patchwerk fight

[desert vault]

Was outside for 3.5 hours of soccer in 50 degree weather didn't help my fingers being super responsive 😃

[stable oxide]

On other fights you need to do specific tricks to increase your damage

[desert vault]

Yeah I was trying to compare my Taloc to other Taloc's at a similar length to make sure things looked about normal

I know, parses are all about cheese, well top parses. I never care about have 99 on everything, just decent purple and maybe an orange makes me feel good. I have a raid spot, when I have gear, cause I actually DO mechanics not just parse which goes a long way

[stable oxide]

^

That aswell

You can be an asshole and just put your garrote and rupture on vectis adds

and keep focussing vectis

but then you are indeed ignoring tactics 😛

[desert vault]

Right, but that usually gets you benched when it comes to time real fights 😃

[fathom lynx]

yeah you are delaying toxic blade in a way that you will lose a 1-2 casts each fight i think, but i'm not exactly sure where you're positioned during the fight so it's hard to comment on whether or not you should be saving it

[stable oxide]

unless no one notices 😉

[desert vault]

@frigid pulsar Ok, I'll have to watch that I was just looking and my TB casts were on par with other logs so I thought I was decent there

[stable oxide]

And if you really really want to go into the depths of your rotation/opener

on warcraftlogs you can look at someone rotation by pressing the casts button :p

[fathom lynx]

i think your log goes from green to purple if you just add vendetta into the opener. extra energy regen + dmg into TB is just candy

[stable oxide]

and you can see exactly what they are doing

[desert vault]

I do, all the time

Timeles, then casts and compare

down to second!

er, to THE second

Add Vendetta? Did I miss it? On Fetid or Taloc log?

[stable oxide]

I dont think so

[desert vault]

Taloc it was my fourth GCD

[stable oxide]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FrMY61P8nAhBDLKa#fight=24&type=damage-done&source=10&targetbuffs=79140

[desert vault]

Same on Fetid

[stable oxide]

you did it here

is what I can see 😛

[desert vault]

Yeah, I sure hope I wasn't missing a Vend cast 😐

[fathom lynx]

you guys areprobably right. it doesn't show up at all on my version of your timeline lol

[desert vault]

I'd excuse myself to the Druid forums or something if so

[stable oxide]

Elinkar do you have weakaura's?

[desert vault]

Yep I run all of that

[stable oxide]

k

[desert vault]

I was final phase progression on Argus last raid, just had to leave for about 2-3 months

and needless to say I'm a lot rusty

[edgy flame]

!garrote

[alpine rain]

1501 unbuffed haste and its STILL higher than agility xD

[topaz gulch]

Is there a verdict or condition for tb over exang or Visa versa? They sim almost the same dps for me. Just a playstyle thing at that point!?

[ionic charm]

Usually if you don't have SS traits, TB will likely be better for you, but it's different for every player. If it's within .5% really you can play whatever you want

[quick fog]

Exs will also give better energy management

Because of increased tick rate etc etc

[bright shale]

Hmm interesting

So it gives bigger burst but similar sustain?

Maybe I'll try it next week

[quick fog]

You will also want to switch depending on the fight

[topaz gulch]

It's less than .5 % for me I run 1 ss 1 sob and archive

[bright shale]

I run 1x ss 2x titan

[stable oxide]

But TB fits better in the rotation with your other cooldowns

[topaz gulch]

I feel like exang feels better to play

[ionic charm]

its personal, I really like MA TB, not having to worry about anything lining up is really freeing

[high siren]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/474681717387558913/500314673925586944/unknown.png

each cast on the same target

would there be a case where this wouldnt be a mistake ?

[stable oxide]

This looks like a missclick or something xD

[errant mauve]

Sin spec bad for zul fight?

[stable oxide]

mythic?

or heroic

[errant mauve]

Borh

Both

[stable oxide]

Heroic it doesnt really matter

[stark folio]

Any of you all have luck with exs and CT on mythic Zek? The adds seem to stay up a bit currently for us

[stable oxide]

if you go something else than sub on Mythic. you need to be checked :p

[high siren]

yes @stark folio

or, what do you mean by "luck" ?

[errant mauve]

Why sub on mythic?

[stable oxide]

adds wont die

the little adds

well

they do

[stark folio]

Like does it feel like a fair damage gain

[stable oxide]

basically you can just do shuriken storm eviscerate

[ionic charm]

For zek? If your group cant kill zek adds, it's not the rogue's fault

[high siren]

yes it does

[stable oxide]

and do alot of damage

[high siren]

at the end of the fight, PB has 3.5% total damage, where CT has something like 9%

[frigid pulsar]

oooh there are two samis

[stark folio]

Oh I know but would CT exs help out and feel worth

[frigid pulsar]

@fathom lynx hi

[stable oxide]

@errant mauve https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA7LyaJ4nMQ this is why

[fathom lynx]

@frigid pulsar oh hey

[steep obsidian]

pres shuriken storm press eviscerate

guide end

[stable oxide]

xD

your statweight changes aswell 😛

so you need to adapt abit 😛

[steep obsidian]

yeah of course

[stable oxide]

but its not hard ofc

[steep obsidian]

you want as much mast as you can get

but that is common sense

[stable oxide]

Yup

[stark folio]

Ty @high siren

[stable oxide]

I did make a stupid mistake on my first few pulls on Zul. I saw on the logs that Shadow blades was not used at the start

but it seems people use it befor the pull xD

[steep obsidian]

wut

[stable oxide]

Didn't know that :p

[steep obsidian]

you pre pot with it

[stable oxide]

Yeah indeed

[steep obsidian]

that been the thing since always

[stable oxide]

Then I always did it wrong :p

[steep obsidian]

its in my pre pot sub macro 😛

[surreal rivet]

Mythic zul is honestly easier then taloc with 6 rogues

My guild downed him in 12 pulls

[stable oxide]

But my logs were good at the start of uldir

[steep obsidian]

nah

my guild is yet to wipe on taloc

[stable oxide]

then shit got nerfed and I respecced assassination :p

[steep obsidian]

taloc isnt even a mythic boss

[surreal rivet]

True

[stable oxide]

So warlocks in my guild were Aoeing the adds down at the start 😛

[hearty yew]

why is sub so good on zul

[stable oxide]

they said it increased their dps

[steep obsidian]

did you remove them

f

rom the group

rogues in my guild played sub first week on heroic zhul just to get to final phase faster coz we had shit gaer

fucking telling idiots to not pad aoe is like pulling teeth

[stable oxide]

We told them why they shoudn't do that xD and now we came with a compromise that we tank the adds at max range of our shuriken storm so that the warlock can put his shit down on the boss

[harsh glacier]

Why is Frenetic Corpuscle so much better for Outlaw than Sin?

[steep obsidian]

well yeh some classes have aoe they cant control

[stable oxide]

Yup and the warlocks are the second best dpsers on the Zul in our guild

[steep obsidian]

but tbh its probably higher boss dps if they just stand there doing nothing then pad aoe lol

[quick fog]

ol attacks so much faster

[steep obsidian]

sub boss damage is so high on taht boss

[stable oxide]

yup

[quick fog]

And are a more auto attack based class

[harsh glacier]

kk

I just got a 375 outlaw wep

was thinking of giving it a shot

[stable oxide]

And its crazy easy aswell :p

no switching target

[steep obsidian]

ol is fine

[stable oxide]

easiest rotation ever

[steep obsidian]

just depends on your comb

[stable oxide]

best boss in my life xD

[steep obsidian]

like on say zekvox killing the small adds is important

[quick fog]

OL is VERY simple

[steep obsidian]

so if your comp doesnt have much aoe ol is reat

[harsh glacier]

the rerolling stuff always confused me

[steep obsidian]

it just lacks a little bit for single target

[stable oxide]

I really dislike outlaw because of the rerolling

and the rng with it

[spice surge]

Play snake

[quick fog]

Usually its roll till 2 buffs or a single good one

[steep obsidian]

well the rerolling isnt that bad nowadays

when you had to reroll for like crit

it was prettty bad

[stable oxide]

True, but I had some pulls where I had to reroll 5 times and I was like....yeahh

never again

[quick fog]

That's just how it goes

It's no different then spamming any other finisher really

[stable oxide]

Yeah but I dislike rng

[main ice]

Don't you limit yourself in reroll ? If you can't get 2 buffs or 1 good buff after 3-4 rerolls

[stable oxide]

So the less RNG depended the specc is the more I like it

I think :p

I disliked poisonbomb in legion aswell

sometimes it was the ability that did the most damage in a fight

and some times it procced 2 times in the whole fight...

[spice surge]

Play sub then. It's entirely devoid of rng barring crits

[harsh glacier]

well PB now does no damage even if it procs

so its better than that

[quiet spruce]

does it matter which enchant is on your MH vs OH?

[stable oxide]

PB now is better cause there is less rng

[spice surge]

No @quiet spruce

[stable oxide]

or it effects us less

[quiet spruce]

thanks

[harsh glacier]

have to have enchants in alphabetical order for highest dps @quiet spruce

its a fact

[hollow stone]

Sin has a lot of rng in crits too

Just throwing that out there

Outlaw is just more obvious about its rng

[main ice]

Yeah you don't have an icon showing that you missed a crit in assa 😄

[candid thorn]

I remember legion poison bomb variance during the opener

Which could be an wasy 2m dps difference

[valid moss]

Elab Planning/Insignia build ftw

[hollow stone]

And the change to 1, 2, or 5 buffs only was really good for outlaw rng

[valid moss]

It saved me from cancer for those last months of Legion

[candid thorn]

As an ex-spriest main, i'm essentially deadpool now

All the cancer made me invulnerable

[quick fog]

@main ice You roll until you get 2 or 1 of the 2 different good ones. Regardless of how long it takes.

It will always be a gain to get the good buffs.

[candid thorn]

It's not actually -that- horrible IMO

Plus I like the outlaw sound effects

[quick fog]

I switched because the variance levels of DPS made it seem like I was playing bad. When I really just got unlucky.

[sturdy python]

Outlaw rng really isn't that bad anymore

And if you really hate it you can run snake and it's almost void of any rng

[quick fog]

Getting high ilvl snek is the problem

[errant mauve]

How’s scent of blood as a trait

[quick fog]

Bad for ST. Fine for M+

[errant mauve]

How’s SS, SoB, DD sound for M+ and raid

[cerulean walrus]

Sounds like garbage

[quick fog]

Ss is worse for raid but still usable , insane for M+

[cerulean walrus]

Use two different sets for M+ and raid content

[quick fog]

dd is best trait for raid that isn't s raid trait

[errant mauve]

Kk

[quick fog]

Scent is gonna be bad for raid

[cerulean walrus]

2x SS 1 Scent or 3x SS for M+

Typically

[quiet spruce]

what is "pre raids" vs "tier 22" in hero damage, which catagorie do i look under?

[round harbor]

which do you tihnk

[cerulean walrus]

T22 probably takes the Uldir buff into account

[quiet spruce]

ahhh

thanks

[cerulean walrus]

At least I'd assume

[hollow stone]

T22 is bis gear

And i mean bis bis

[charred oar]

what traits are you guy srunning for pvp

[hollow stone]

Like tf'd n errythang

[charred oar]

SS + Archive + X?

[quiet spruce]

ohh, so its better to look under Pre raid for more realistic data then

[neon jasper]

hi, mates.. i have any question the rotation change in any way if i have a Double dose azerite trait?

[hollow stone]

Typically speaking, yes

Once you hit 380 equipped, t22 should be more accurate

[cerulean walrus]

@neon jasper only if you have SS in addition

[quiet spruce]

okay thanks, sry, i know this isnt assa talk

[hollow stone]

Cause youre nearing that peak

[quiet spruce]

okay ty @hollow stone

[hollow stone]

Thats ok. Its rogue talk and sin adjacent, def on topic

[harsh glacier]

got heroic fetid chest and a mythic 10 dead-eye trinket today boiyz

[neon jasper]

@cerulean walrus ty, mate !

[cerulean walrus]

Nice! @harsh glacier

I'm still getting shafted lmfao

[harsh glacier]

feels nice to finally have ss on a 370 piece

[cerulean walrus]

I mean there's the emissary reward one that also can be 370 with SS

Feelssubtman

[unreal jewel]

Hey guys, I've seen things getting nerfed more while some other Rogue Specs seem to be getting buffed. I was playing Assassination while my friend was doing Outlaw, and we were about the same ilvl but he was beating my ass by like 3K DPS.

Is Assassination still the best of the three to play? I'm really questioning it.

[hollow stone]

All 3 are within 1k sim dps in bis gear

Interpret this how you wish

[harsh glacier]

1k is a fair bit

sin sims the highest in bis gear

[fathom lynx]

totally depends on which content you're doing. perhaps he's got better itemization, enchants etc. perhaps he's just better

[hollow stone]

Fiiiine. Ill help interpret: play what you have the best gear for/what you will execute closest to perfection

[unreal jewel]

Shrine of the Storm. We also didn't use Enchantments or gems.

We looked mainly at damage dealt to bosses.

[fathom lynx]

normal, heroic, mythic, m+?

[unreal jewel]

Regular Mythic.

[harsh glacier]

SotS Outlaw performs better than Sin

bigger and quicker cleave damage

on low health mobs

[unreal jewel]

We looked only at boss damage.

[candid thorn]

single and 2 targets sin should do better than outlaw

[hollow stone]

Traits, gear, execution of rotation

[magic mural]

The 2nd boss in shrine is so annoying as sin

Outlaw just activates bf and smiles for extra dmg

[main ice]

The 2nd boss is annoying as every melee spec

A nightmare as monk too

[harsh glacier]

I dont care about damage on that fight

[hollow stone]

What?? That boss is god tier for sin..

[harsh glacier]

just watching the tornadoes on my ass

[hollow stone]

The two bosses boss??

Where you can double dot?

[magic mural]

Getting dots deleted :)

[hollow stone]

Get a new tank that moves out of the tank rune before it drops

[harsh glacier]

I think my groups tank is pretty bad at that fight

its always such a struggle

[hollow stone]

And you can cheese the extra haste too

[magic mural]

So is it possible to not get dots deleted ever? Like when first boss is dead, the rune drops anywhere, but both alive it drops directly under them

[hollow stone]

You guys should be rekking meters on that boss

He casts it on a cd, your tank just needs to range him

[magic mural]

Yeah I know the fight, it's just that I busy reapplying dots

[hollow stone]

And the readjust to avoid the rune

[magic mural]

Ok gonna tell him that

Yeah sure

[hollow stone]

Im spoiled by my tank

[ripe musk]

Envenom Question: Do I want to avoid overwriting one that is up? If I have a 4 point one running should I immediately over write it with a 5 point one if I can or should I let the 4 point one fall off (or close to falling off)?

[hollow stone]

Its possible that they dont know how impactful that is for your dps. Just let them know how important it is

[magic mural]

I even held vanish to apply after first rune xD

[strange python]

@ripe musk You can overwrite

[hollow stone]

@ripe musk try to keep ep up the whole time, env buff will come naturally if you do that

[magic mural]

Dude they know. :D but thanks, now I can flame my tank

[harsh glacier]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nBV1vuMXmehmzUuq46dyii
so I see other guys simming 17k at like 375 ilvl. How does 2k dps appear in 6 ilvl from what I have going on now?

[hollow stone]

Haha. Yee budday, let em know that this random guy in disc said his tank is better, itll go over real well

[strange python]

trash azerite for raid

[harsh glacier]

havent really got my st stuff sorted out as I mainly am doing m+ atm

whats better?

[strange python]

DD and go TB

[cerulean depot]

I have 8 sockets @harsh glacier

[cerulean walrus]

Ei-eight?

[harsh glacier]

that sim was taking into account using tb or exsg

[hollow stone]

Big part of your sim in the traits; low simming st traits, then theres sockets, and lastly, weap ilvl

[cerulean depot]

Yes

[harsh glacier]

aite

[hollow stone]

Like a 385 weap would prob give you like 500 sim dmg and thats just 1avg ilvl

Just for scale

[final stone]

got a 370 DD chest but does not sim higher than my 385 ss

[strange python]

wow

maybe because of the ilvl difference?

[final stone]

yee im pretty sure thasts why

[strange python]

@harsh glacier Try picking Subter/MA with TB and switch your chest trait to archive

See how it sims

[harsh glacier]

dont have a chest archive yet unfortunately

[final stone]

i dont have an archive

[strange python]

ur

[harsh glacier]

or I dont think I do

[strange python]

chest

has

archive

[harsh glacier]

oh

haha

right you are

[final stone]

doesnt shoulders off xul have archive too

[harsh glacier]

yeah I didnt get them today

was sad

[final stone]

same haha

[harsh glacier]

that got it a bit higher michee

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pCMFJhK1Rn4JF64rmx3hsQ

[strange python]

230 dps

thats quite a lot

[harsh glacier]

though it picked DD Head > 2x Archive

[hollow stone]

That makes sense

[harsh glacier]

I got a 375 outlaw offhand too, when is it worth using a slow oh?

Ill sim it

[hollow stone]

Gotta be daggers for sin

Only daggers

[harsh glacier]

orly?

[hollow stone]

Yarly

[harsh glacier]

swear I saw people running mother mace oh

[hollow stone]

Noooo. Cant mutilate

So unless you wanna gen w fok

[atomic abyss]

how much %haste should you aim for? for mythic raiding

is there "too much"?

[hollow stone]

Sub can oh a non dagger, outlaw can oh a dagger, sin needs 2 daggers

[sturdy python]

Whatever your stat weights shoe

[hollow stone]

There isnt too much; check your self sims thi

Tho

[atomic abyss]

btw, @harsh glacier

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6aG8DJ7UxtihZTx84kALWZ

[harsh glacier]

ooft nearly in the 17k club

that dice tho

[atomic abyss]

SB on helm, POGGERS

[high siren]

guys

I have a very specific question

on zek voz mythic, adds pop around 5 min, and 1 min after we pop BL on P3

would you use vanish on adds, or keep it for the BL in P3 ?

with exsang and SS build

[strange python]

no

[atomic abyss]

well, if you wanna go for logs, proly do it on adds

[strange python]

I would CT on those adds

or just go sub on zek

[wind berry]

Sup boy's, question, I have 370 SS/Archive chest and 355 TwistKnife chest... Now since i want to go MA wich one is better, i have simmed them both but it keeps going for Archive Subforge..

[strange python]

Then why are u asking?

[wind berry]

Probably because I wont to avoid 3 Archive

[strange python]

????

[atomic abyss]

why would u go ma?

[wind berry]

sims higher by like 100 dps?

or somethinf

3 Archive MA simms highest for me

[cerulean walrus]

100DPS sim difference is nearly negligible in actual execution

[strange python]

Just sim

And go with the best combo

[wind berry]

So basically you recommend going Sub instead of Ma

Subf

[strange python]

I recommend whats simming the most

[old quartz]

best way to sim for m+? 5bosses 2 min?

[strange python]

4-6Targets 40sec-1min

[old quartz]

ty kindly

[spice surge]

And a tablespoon of salt

[wind berry]

@strange python Thank you for your time, hope i didnt waste it

[old quartz]

lol @spice surge

[spice surge]

Because its gonna be far from 100% accurate (if your goal is to sim m+) so apply some critical thinking and don't trust it blindly

[strange python]

now if we could only get rid of this ass Darkmoon deck

[frank shard]

Is haste really that important? I'm at 18% currently, 23% in raid

[dense blaze]

Agility is below crit and haste for me

So I think it's somewhat important

[drifting elbow]

yes stats are important

but u r better off simming items

rather than following weights blindly

weights sim doesnt account changes in stats u would put in it from sacced stats

[keen urchin]

are there any good azerite pieces dropping in warfronts?

[drifting elbow]

there is some azerites that has good traits

[gusty yoke]

I got a 370 chest with dd from the quest

Not sure if the 340 chest is the same or a diffrent one

[sturdy python]

I don't believe Azerite pieces can drop in warfronts

Just off the arathi world boss is all

[wheat zealot]

They can drop from the quest turn in for a 370 piece

And i believe you can get 340 az from warfront completion

[candid thorn]

No, they do definitely drop as WF reward

[hollow stone]

Lol @sturdy python all calm in here but heated in outlaw channel

[candid thorn]

From the 370 quest, the 340 as well as regular completion reward

[hollow stone]

Sorry for fanning the flames

Love you

[lucid bolt]

i got to admit you guys really helped me out with my dps i appreciate it

[sturdy python]

Not heated, I dislike bad info though

Not that I don't make mistakes but I own up to it lol

[hollow stone]

Yea. I just wasnt helping lol, anytime you can "mass aoe" and not die, is better

For sure

[gusty yoke]

do you guys use some kind of WA to let ur tank know you got a PB proc?

[sturdy python]

Like above, I'm wrong about the warfront, my bad. I've done so many of those things with no azerite on alts tho, wtf

[hollow stone]

Nah @gusty yoke

I just yell at him after if he moves unknowingly. Its more fun that way

But really you shouldnt be running pb often

And when you are, the boss should be standing still for the most part

[sturdy python]

In legion id say that would be legit PB isn't as impressive or necessary for aoe now though

[gusty yoke]

yeah i only use it in KR still feels bad when they move out of it