^
#assassination
wheat zealot
mossy hazel
Eh
inner pulsar
We aren’t talking about a small difference in FPS
strange python
There is 1 log for sin on zul
inner pulsar
Ugh my phone
grim mason
can anyone confirm https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1102669-pvp-tuning-oct-10-2018/
mossy hazel
No I get that it's literally leaps and fucking bounds. Lol
inner pulsar
You just confirmed it
wheat zealot
grim mason
is it live
inner pulsar
So if you get that, and choose not to swap, you should be sat
Maybe they won’t do that, but if your team isn’t at the level of making those decisions, don’t expect to get him any time soon anyway
mossy hazel
But if you don't know what you're doing is it still going to be that much better? I'm not joking when I say I've literally never played Sub. Lol
inner pulsar
Yes
wheat zealot
Sub is ez, you could read or watch a guide and learn it in 10 minutes or less
strange python
just shuriken storm and eviscerate
inner pulsar
Get herorotation add on, turn on the aoe rotation, win
strange python
refresh DoT once in a while
sturdy python
Only hard part about sub is just getting nightblade timing right so you don't waste shadow dance time. Hardly a issue in aoe like zul anyway
mossy hazel
That's fair
inner pulsar
I have 100% confidence that you can do it
mossy hazel
You greatly over estimate my green parse ass
But like I said we're not there yet, we'll see how it goes when we are
We're still working on zek
mossy hazel
2 weeks ago we were first horde on our server to get MOTHER sooooo. Lol
wheat zealot
What server do you play on lol
frozen badger
What makes Blightborne Infusion good for Assa?
warm geode
@inner pulsar 11min to say shuriken evi?
inner pulsar
Did you watch it?
warm geode
joking dude
onyx falcon
went to look at the sin guide to see if there was anything new, are pplz actually using MA now?
stuck shuttle
yes
wheat zealot
Infexious does drags things out sometimes youre not wrong
inner pulsar
Oh yeah, he is trying to get past that 10 min mark, but there is more there
mossy hazel
@stuck shuttle
Whopping 8 guilds doing mythic
I'm not paying for a server change, I really don't care that much. Lol
wheat zealot
ded
warm geode
farm gold and change server
agile phoenix
when ecs. comes of cd and your rupture is at 17sec and garote 14 secs do you refresh your dots right away befor applying exs. or you w8 10 secs befor refreshing and then exs ?
mossy hazel
No no no, this is like right in line with my skill level. I'm good here. Lol.
I change server I'm just getting carried at that pointh
agile phoenix
oke
warm geode
try to think before, like, exsg is comming of cd in 20sec, and ur rupture os like 2 sec, u refresh with 2 or 3cp
so u refresh in 15sec with 5
things like dat @agile phoenix
mossy hazel
Oh geeze... I just found my old guild... 3/8n... glad I got out of there...
inner pulsar
Good name for a guild/discord
ember ermine
Mine are 2/8M and 1/8M while my new guild is 3/8M
mossy hazel
Dumpster Fire is a great name. Lol
lunar nebula
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
magic thistle
anyone else feel like sub is just better for raids? most raid bosses have a bunch of adds that boost subs numbers a lot
mossy hazel
Apparently that's a guild on Mal'Ganis already
clear harbor
do you think its worth running crimson tempest in like a m10 kings rest
mossy hazel
I heard KR is worst for CT
lime briar
is it possible to fit 3 envenoms in your TB window? i can only fit 2 and only get enough energy for a 3rd JUST after TB wears off
mossy hazel
I would assume with enough haste and perfect timing you probably could, right?
ember ermine
I get 3 Env in a TB window in my opener
lime briar
oh yeah i meant without opener and lust
magic thistle
i can also do it with a 380 tidecallers
lime briar
i can get 3 in opener
ember ermine
well when i get vend vanish gcb back i get 3 in a window again
lime briar
my haste is also not that great ~15%
ember ermine
other than that i usually get 2
lime briar
ahh okay was just wonering if its normal to hit 3 most of the time
ember ermine
I have 15% haste
oh
I can get 3 in a window with GCB but... its hard with movement fights
lime briar
do you hold your GCB to line up with TB
untold patrol
whats TB and MA?
alpine grotto
Toxic blade and master assassin
untold patrol
okie thanks
magic thistle
honestly im disappointed in my dps in raids as sin, im 377 i lvl i feel like i should be pulling a lot more dps
lime briar
when do you use GCB in your opener? for me its: garrote > mut > rupture > vendetta > mut > TB + GCB > env
magic thistle
idk i use SS
ember ermine
g>mut>rup>vend>GCB>vanish>tb>mut>env>mut MA/TB opener
lime briar
ahh okay that makes sense
alpine grotto
@magic thistle I was too but now am consistently doing well. Doesn’t t help they change traits or dps every week for the rogue either. Follow the guides etc and you will smash it.
ionic charm
Supposedly people simmed a different opener that was insignificantly better, with TB and an extra mutilate to 5 cp before vanish. But I don’t have the actual data to support that
And the difference wasn’t large anyways
lime briar
@magic thistle whats your opener with SS? I have a set with 2x SS and a set with 2x DD that sim within 0.3% dps of each other
but i just like SS for the cp generation
magic thistle
garrote/rupture/garrote/vendetta/TB/Envenom/X2 mut/Envenom
magic thistle
@alpine grotto i think my issue is azerite traits honestly
alpine grotto
@magic thistle what you rocking ?
paper aspen
I have found that I've gotten used to having at least 1 SS, that simming something slightly higher without it makes me want to hold off on the upgrade.
@magic thistle is your name a Name of the Wind reference?
paper aspen
fist bump
lilac lily
@magic thistle are you simming with no reorigination array on purpose? Cause it makes a big difference
tropic pike
only 1 ss piece is from raids right? and thats from fetid
magic thistle
I swap my chest to reorigination array on raids
ionic charm
@magic thistle have you checked if you sim higher with exsang? Since you’re running 2 ss. And meticulous scheming is awful so that definitely doesn’t help if that’s your only option. And like Aluren said, 1 raid trait is needed
ember ermine
How do I sim 400 dps higher than you?
inner pulsar
That wasn’t an accurate sim
He wasn’t using his raiding gear, so had no reorg array
ember ermine
Ah
magic thistle
even on fights like mythic mother where i get to stand still and dps the boss for the entire fight im not hitting 16k
ember ermine
Same
magic thistle
and with my gear i feel like i should be doing way more
magic thistle
back before all the fuckin nerfs my numbers were insane
hollow stone
Sim is a robot. So unless youre a robot too you wont hit your sim dps in a true patchwerk setting
magic thistle
i was hitting it really close before though, like i use to sim 14k before all the nerfs and was hitting 14k
hollow stone
And i recommend not looking at mother as an indicator of your dps unless youre killing her completely in room 1
magic thistle
we basically were
quick fog
That's what we did for N & H
magic thistle
i spent probably 4 minutes just patchwork on mother last night in the first room
inner pulsar
Right, and now you aren’t right?
quick fog
Not for M.
hollow stone
Tldr; dont judge your dps on mother. Pick another fight
dark crag
We kill mother hc in first room, more st in uldir is not possible
lilac lily
370 chest with LM sims 0.6% higher than a 370 chest with Archive for me, I"m guessing its because of the secondary traits? Overwhelming power x Gutripper?
ember ermine
H Fetid is Patchwerk
quick fog
Correct Aluren
hollow stone
It has a vuln phase, its not patchwerk
dark crag
But you do increased dmg
fair sparrow
Hey, have some doubts, m+ related:
- On how many targets should i use FoK as combo builder?
- Tyrannical week - go for some haste for extra dps on boss?
- Crimson tempest - should it be used on both Tyrannical and Fortified or is it situational? Thanks
quick fog
FoK is 4+/5+ if you have DD
inner pulsar
Sigh, yes, but to say “I was closer to my sim dps” and not account for the fact that you are now doing mythic and CANT kill her in the first room doesn’t make sense
lilac lily
- 4+, 5 if you have any DD trait
- yes
- it can be, or you can use PB for a bit more boss dps, up to you
hushed maple
What do you do, at 4 targets with ss? Just multilate on them and poop envenom on them?
quick fog
I usually go PB just for it being better on bosses and still doing AoE
Rupture spread to keep up energy then Env town.
hollow stone
Ai ya, i disagree with basically everything just said
fair sparrow
I'm running 1x archive 2x SS atm
so it would be 4+ mobs for FoK then
strange python
@hushed maple u FoK
fair sparrow
much obliged
balmy wing
how the hell is littkniv simming 1k more than me
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tz57aNkwkeDABdGupMAYyY
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q8JX5D63hsCv5iZHVTrXzB
lilac lily
@hushed maple you G G G from stealth, then build cp with FoK
balmy wing
tried simming myself with galecallers etc but that barely changed the dps
stuck shuttle
ya'll too obsessed with sims
balmy wing
5 ilvls shouldnt be that big a dif
strange python
why wouldnt it
hollow stone
5 ilvl in the right places would be..
strange python
He changed his azerite pieces
inner pulsar
Better weapon, better trinket
inner pulsar
Sim is life
balmy wing
hm, maybe it is then
hollow stone
Need somebody at 383+ to confirm that 5ilvl is always 1k dps
stray hatch
Anyone have an experience on Mythic Fetid? My guild is talking about saving cooldowns for the first add, but most logs I'm looking at have Assassination opening on the boss with normal opener. Any insight?
hollow stone
Our dk is like 385ish too and then the rest of us are like 375-380 range
hollow stone
Yea. Youre gonna need all the add dmg you can get during prog
stray hatch
Thanks Hecktix
inner pulsar
We use 2 mins on pull
stuck shuttle
We are doing our re-clear tonight and you def parse better popping CDs on openre
@stray hatch
mossy hazel
While we're talking about progression CDs, what are your opinions on Zek?
I typically open with vend, and hold vanish for first adds
inner pulsar
Meaning I don’t have them for first and third, but our 3 min folks save theirs for the first add
stray hatch
@stuck shuttle Thanks, we just started Fetid last night and I'm just trying to help where I can
mossy hazel
Bad...? Lol... I'm barely a good Sin rogue
hollow stone
And mythic?
lime briar
archive trait doesnt stack right?
night condor
hey guys I recently rerolled too rogue from my mage, about 1.5 weeks ago and I want to improve as I don't think I'm doing too well in raids rn. Is there anyway I can post some logs where some more experienced rogue might be able to help me out?
stuck shuttle
@lime briar yes it does
lime briar
oh shit
mossy hazel
Yea mythic.
hollow stone
And youre running ss/subt?
lime briar
so 2x archive 1x DD is better than 1x archive 2x DD
mossy hazel
I don't hold vend for adds anymore because I feel like we aren't struggling that much on them anymore
I actually don't have SS anymore, but Sub still sims higher for me.
I just got rid of my last SS last night so I haven't run anything without it yet
So I guess that would actually change it up for me next week
hollow stone
If your group isnt struggling on adds, focus the shadow and fok. I would toss some rupts on the warrs for energy
sturdy python
@night condor you can post them here and usually will get some help
magic thistle
@mossy hazel what i personally do is use vendetta on the add spawns cause the spawn at 1 min and 3 min which lines up really well
hollow stone
But if youre not struggling on adds, vend on cd imo
The add shouldnt last 20 sec tho
magic thistle
yea but its really helpful to get the first add down asap
mossy hazel
The first weaver goes down fast, I was actually considering saving for second weaver
cunning blaze
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
mossy hazel
We usually get the first 2 down, then keep the 3rd ccd during donuts and finish it off after
night condor
@sturdy python ok thanks I know I'm not that good but that's why I want to post them so I can improve. I can take some flak if there is any, hehe.
hollow stone
Are you getting 3rd add phase or is your dps high enough to push to p2 before 3rd adds?
night condor
ok @stuck shuttle thanks man will do
hollow stone
Cause that also matters
mossy hazel
We're getting 3
sturdy python
People are generally helpful here, if a little memey lol
mossy hazel
Well.. In the cases we actually make it that far. Right now we're consistantly getting UPTO the second add spawn before we wipe. Occasionally we start the 3rd wave
hollow stone
Mmk. Depending on how close you guys are to pushing p2 w 2 add phases, it might actually be best for you to sit boss. But you woulda wanna talk that over w your group
mossy hazel
Oh yea no we're definitely not at a point where I can tunnel boss if that's what you mean
night condor
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/draenor/supmates?mode=detailed&zone=19#difficulty=4&bybracket=1&metric=bossdps here is some of my recent parses I just want an general idea of what I'm doing wrong. I performed a lot better with my mage for obvious reasons, since I was more comfortable and experienced with it. thanks for any help that you can give me!
hollow stone
Yea. Ok. That means boss dps isnt as important for you guys yet so it prob is best to save cds like you were suggesting. Your parse will be poop but killing a boss > good parse
mossy hazel
@hollow stone Thanks for the input man, appreciate it
sick oyster
how do you guys use galecaller's and exang? line them up every time? just press on cd? whats max amount you should delay exang? guess best is to just line galecaller's with every 2. vendetta by using on cooldown?
stuck shuttle
if the fight goes past 2 mins, use on CD
languid ore
@night condor I'll tell you right off the bat without looking a lot of playing a new class is muscle memory. You can't be a week in and expect to shine. You can follow a rotation on dummy's and call it a day but when you can do it while shit is hectic and you have to deal with mechanics and see what's going on. That just takes time
stuck shuttle
@sick oyster
languid ore
@night condor read the pins and keep playing. Come back and check tc-updates ever so often and just keep playing.
night condor
@languid ore aye I realise that but at the same time I want to improve so I came here to get some help. It will take sometime to get better for sure.
hollow stone
@mossy hazel np. Gl
delicate crater
how do most Sin's spec for Zul? HB/CT?
mossy hazel
Most?
stuck shuttle
you don't
mossy hazel
They don't. Lol
vast berry
my guild believes in padding on H 😦
lilac lily
sturdy python
@night condor first thing I noticed on the fetid log was your opener was all wrong. Also, you're using TB wrong. You should try to have blleds squared away before TB so you can focus on getting two envenom casts while TB is on the target
Unfortunately that's all I can look at right now at work, make sure to read the guide thoroughly. It explains those mistakes
night condor
ok @sturdy python I appreciate that you took a look at them though. I will read it more in depth. thanks for the help!
onyx ferry
i tried assasination yesterday for the first time and i was having trouble keeping rupture up outside the toxic blade window if i was using tb on cd, should i first rupture, pool energy and then tb? Even if tb came off cd a couple of seconds before this? Thx guys
hollow stone
Sin is all about planning ahead. If you dont cap energy and dont cap cp, you dont lose damage
lilac lily
^
hollow stone
If you have to refresh g or r in your tb window, do it
But if you plan correctly, you wont need to
lilac lily
With sin, you dont need to cast something every gcd
stuck shuttle
in TB window you want 3x Envenom for opener, 2x on regular rotation
2x preferre
preferred
but always atleast 1
onyx ferry
ok cool, any tips on how you guys do it usually? Or do you just wing it and figure it out on the go?
hollow stone
See my first response, we plan ahead
stuck shuttle
just experience
pulsar juniper
Hello there, should I use crimson or poison bomb in m+? :<
stuck shuttle
each situation is different, so its just knowing what you need to execute
onyx ferry
i did feel like i had more time to think with this spec, its less spammy
lilac lily
Reapply Rupture with 7.2s remaining and garrote with 5.4s remaining, assuming 5cp
lilac lily
if you have rupture with like 10s remaining, you could TB and reapply rupture when its about to fall off, or you could reapply it with 7s remaining and TB after
onyx ferry
but you try to always use tb on cd right?
hollow stone
This is where the planning ahead comes in
stuck shuttle
yes
onyx ferry
would it be worse to let tb sit there for a couple of gcds but get 2 evenoms in, or use it always and fail to get 2x env?
ok great
lilac lily
dont use TB if you dont have rupture/garrote up and you're energy starved for example
hollow stone
Its like driving, you dont look at what is directly in front of you, you look ahead so youre ready; same idea
scarlet condor
Prob. stupid question. i played with ss the whole time. how do you guys open the fight without it? Also is subterfuge still viable?
the one from gigglebush?
stuck shuttle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
dim cedar
which traits you guys prefer for m+?
flint swift
TB is a standard damage window ability. Plan ahead and have some resources pooled when it comes off cd
lime briar
oh nice they just updated the guide yesterday
mossy hazel
Wish there were some notes on WHAT was updated. Lol
flint swift
And so your best to not let your dots expire in the window
lime briar
is it greedy of me to pool up to near max energy for TB lol
mossy hazel
It's nice to show that it WAS though. step in the right direction. Lol
hollow stone
You should dm the shadows w that feedback
lime briar
do you guys refresh garrote and rupture even if its nowhere near the pandemic window in preparation for TB
hollow stone
Dont actually dm them btw
mossy hazel
Lol, yea I wouldn't do that
stuck shuttle
@lime briar no, thats a loss in dps
lime briar
ah okay thanks @stuck shuttle
hollow stone
Would help newer players a lot
lime briar
i usually find myself having them drop off RIGHT after my TB window
if i focus solely on mut > env during TB
flint swift
Yeah the cd and dot durations line up a lot.
I would assume it’s better to miss out on like 1 second of dot uptime than it is to miss an “empowered” envenom
But I don’t know that for sure
flat ocean
That guide didnt mention the use of vanish with MA and TB
You use vanish after 4+cp with TB and Vend up
Env Mut Env out of vanish
hushed maple
Well tbh....I never saw a good rogue guide...even tho this here is Raventhold, the guide is still shit if I am honest
drifting elbow
its not shit?
hushed maple
Its not good, either
drifting elbow
🤔
it helped me pretty good for not experienced rogue
it has some parts not updated such as FoK stuff
but still good guide
hushed maple
Well the strange thing is, I used TB with EP and as I fcked the rotation up, I did more dmg....
drifting elbow
......
hushed maple
So something cant be right there
drifting elbow
and how often u did that test to determine it being more dps?
drifting elbow
so random crit there and there and no base of line in thought process behind specific reasons
🤔
just saying, randomly fucking up did more dps
doesnt help at all
hushed maple
As I did it right, I did 10k opener burst and as I did it wrong it was 15....well sure crits do the main part but 5k is a damn huge gap
drifting elbow
i mean
i can do 15k opener burst
sometimes 20k
with exatly same rotation
nothing new here
hushed maple
Well I am at 254gs, tho
light tusk
With all the traits and different gear ilvl/stats . different way of playing would be difficult to make a build specifically for 1 person
mossy hazel
Can you define your "when I fucked it up"
hushed maple
Well I fcked up the order
pastel vault
My openers are 30k and I read the guide does that mean the guide is 2x better than your magic fk up rotation?
mossy hazel
Like what was your build, what was your order, what specifically did you do
Or are you saying you just did something random every time and didn't do the same thing each attempt
lone hamlet
Guys if sub sims higher 1k, should I play it ?
drifting elbow
sounds like it
hushed maple
It happened a while ago....but I used TB and Elaborate Planning
lone hamlet
Is it much worse on st ?
light tusk
Just Sim and look the apl then adjust it in real time fight
hushed maple
If it sims higher, it cant be worse
drifting elbow
simming will tell u difference aemond
pastel vault
Mutilate crit rng in opener can change your dmg a lot
drifting elbow
it can be same dps, assa may be better dps than sub or otherway around, depends on ur gear aemond
inner pulsar
You are supposed to use TB and Elaborate Planning
lone hamlet
So why most rogues playing assa
inner pulsar
So you probably didn’t read the guide that well
hushed maple
Well I did but as I said the rotation was wierd for me
pastel vault
Because every fight is a 2 target cleave 😴
drifting elbow
well we would like to know what kind of rotation u've been pulling to do more dps that guide one
hushed maple
Assa needs Sups shuriken storm
Well I nearly dis the guides one but used some abilities wrong since I brainfarted
Oh and sup is meh bcause auf Backstab
...damn what a horrible spell
oblique fox
Sup
drifting elbow
well only thing that could affect ur numbers is order of spell paired with TB
less cp into envenoms and stuff ?-?
hollow stone
@hushed maple is this guy for real? I cant even tell if trolling or not
hushed maple
I am not trolling...but lets forget about my words probably must be my bad. I am sorry
drifting elbow
we r not really offended
hollow stone
Ok. Well if you have specific questions, plz ask and we can help. But what youre saying doesnt help us help you
rancid seal
Do I run exsang with 1 trait in SS or stay with TB till I get 2 traits in it?
drifting elbow
sim if about raiding
rancid seal
yeah just in the middle of one, but alright np
drifting elbow
for me exsan is little worse than TB for raiding with one SS so 🤷
rancid seal
aight cheers
round onyx
do the rotation change in any way if i have a Double dose azerite trait?
drifting elbow
no
mental pond
when facing 2 targets is it still better to use Muti or FoK?
drifting elbow
outdated info about FoK it seems
mental pond
ok 😃
drifting elbow
no clue how trustworthy IV is for rogue tho
mossy hazel
IV I think originally was written by people here, but it only seems to be updated each big patch it seems to me
Or at least the first version of it had peoples name from here on it
mental pond
it was confusing because I read that on IV, then I played like that and it felt bad
mossy hazel
I haven't looked at it in a while
drifting elbow
well it is 4+
mental pond
ok, thanks :))
inner pecan
you still FoK on 3 targets if you need to keep Deadly Poison up
drifting elbow
u can check skills used in raidbot sim HTML report
wanton wagon
I've been doing 3+ fok for this entire expansion, is it 4+? I think my logic just followed over from sub backstab/storm prio lol
drifting elbow
yea i mean fok spams is starting on 4+
mental pond
so 3+ just to refresh dp, 4+ for just cp generation
drifting elbow
3 targets is poison spreading
wanton wagon
Good to know
Wouldn't just tabbing around for deadly poison be better if you don't have a priority target?
drifting elbow
i guess its because FoK crits chance to gen more CP
if u happen to be lucky enough at 3
🤷
hollow stone
Good rule to live by when reviewing a guide: check other guides and compare to get an accurate idea. And as far as IV goes, its a pretty garbage resource generally speaking. And it says 2+ for fok cause thats how it was in legion
peak saffron
are you guys trying to optimize using vanish on boss and adds on Mythic Fetid or are you popping it in the opener?
wanton wagon
I really dislike the crit rng on sin, sub is so crisp with guaranteed cp
drifting elbow
well my rule is to ask about trusted information 😄
errant mauve
are sin rogues highest dps in game? and how much further ahead of the other specs of rogue are they
vocal wave
Is Sin still king for most fights except Zekvoz and Zul and maybe shit like Ghuun?
I've been told to focus on my Sub but as far as I know, sin outperforms Sub on every fight except Zul
drifting elbow
imo its not super large enough between specs
drifting elbow
assa is like couple %? better on ST than other specs i guess
depends if u got bis traits ofc
wanton wagon
Depends on what kind of fight, but they aren't terribly far from each other
inner pulsar
We don’t have opinions around here, only cold hard facts
river quarry
uhh wouldn't zek m be fine for assas
polar cape
With tempest to kinda pad
river quarry
yea but padding is padding lul
inner zephyr
na as long as u rupture everything and keeps dots up
ull be ahead of most
thought put zul
inner pulsar
If you actually care about which spec is top on each fight, don’t ask a random assortment of people in discord what their opinion is, go check the stats on WCL
inner pulsar
If you don’t actually care, and just want to know if you can play sin in raid without being gimped, the answer is yes except Zul
No, that has nothing to do with it
inner pulsar
I’m saying you check the statistics tab for the boss you are looking into and see how the parses stack up on each boss
ornate mantle
guys about using exanguinate
i sim pretty much 100 dps more with toxic blade
but for mythic + is better exanguinte afaik
how does it work
i use it and let the debuff run out?
strange python
Its good if u need an add down quickly
wanton wagon
Depends on affixes and dungeons tbh
ornate mantle
then renew ?
strange python
Like infested add
drifting elbow
well i see a lot of ppl holding exsan for m+ very highly over TB
wanton wagon
And routes, and group comp
drifting elbow
been running it in m+, but honestly i dont really see a lot of difference than faster prio kill 
ornate mantle
but i mean , wouldnt it be better to have your debuffs do more damage than doing more damage to 1 target with nature ?
drifting elbow
TB is only ST same as exsan
strange python
TB only works on 1 target too buddy
wanton wagon
Yeah, it's considered the way to go, mostly because people run triple ss in m+ and I'd bet my left hand exsang pulls ahead then
ornate mantle
i have only 1ss and it sims me pretty much the same
wanton wagon
Yeah, but if you really want to min max. Honestly I run both and switch around and I don't see any discernable difference either
strange python
i guess its different with 3SS
ornate mantle
but what i wanted to know anyway is , how does the debuff work
strange python
Can you read the tooltip?
drifting elbow
its just 100% faster ticks on bleeds
wanton wagon
You let it run out
ornate mantle
yea but it changes the debuff and it goes to a shorter timer
strange python
run out
ornate mantle
thanks thats what i wanted to know
wanton wagon
And you want to have freshly refreshed bleeds when you pop it
strange python
yes
ornate mantle
allright
cerulean magnet
people
galecaller and doom's wake share a cd?
i cant seem to be able to use them both at the same time :S
north terrace
I don't know if they do specifically, but a lot of longer CD on use trinkets have like a 15s shared CD... or did in the past
cerulean magnet
yeah thats the issue, its like a 12s shared cd
which blows, raidbots sims alot higher with those 2 together in m+
cerulean magnet
but cannot use them at the same time, so im confused
north terrace
Dooms wake lasts 16 sec though so if you really want to overlap them you can get like 4-5 sec of overlap
Not really sure what the ideal use of them is when you have both though
glacial dust
Hey lads! i wonder i someone know how much haste-crit u need to get 'capped''
north terrace
sim your stat weights every time you get gear, go for the highest stats it says
drifting elbow
no caps
glacial dust
alright! cool, thanks
drifting elbow
i've been wondering same about my good use trinkets but opener is nightmare with them
which is better to use first 🤔
uuhhh
vocal kindle
why wont mother ever drop her daggers 😦
glacial dust
got em both yesterday, normal and HC 😉
gilded oasis
Because she's a jerk that's why
vocal kindle
bring back artifact weapons
glacial dust
no!
earnest hedge
anyone wanna take a peep at my sims and tell me why sub still sims higher than sin even though im gearing all haste?
woven dragon
I liked artifact weapons 😢
gilded oasis
I just liked not having to fish for 2 decent weapons for a whole xpac
drifting elbow
getting 3 good relics is pain in the ass more than getting one really good weapon
north terrace
Not once relics were just ilvl stat boosters
woven dragon
Weapons don’t exist this xpac
north terrace
And it's 2 weapons, not 1
woven dragon
Neither do successful bonus rolls
gilded oasis
Lol successful bonus roll, nice myth
north terrace
At least other people could loot the relics we needed
Now if you don't have another rogue in sin or sub you're fucked if you're unlucky lol
drifting elbow
i mean, just one weapon is really good gain, offhand ilvl was little effect with old weapon anyway 🤔
north terrace
OH ilvl may not matter as much as MH or secondary stats, still improves DPS by a good amount
drifting elbow
sure
north terrace
So you still need 2 good weapons lol
vocal kindle
i had a good feeling i would of got a dagger off of mythic mother tonight
strange python
exang worth it for mythic fetid add damage?
inner pecan
SS/Exsg works well on the big add
too much setup time for the small add
but I'd just suggest playing whatever sims better between TB and Exsg for you on that fight
inner pecan
are you on big or small?
strange python
i blame the 2 frost mages not going arcane 😡
small
we have our outlaw on the big add
stuck shuttle
sin should be on big add tbh
inner pecan
you should prob be on big add if you're playing sin
if you have to do small I'd try out sub
stuck shuttle
if your group needs a sin rogue for small add to die
you probably just don't have enough dps
inner pecan
if anything Outlaw is better than Sin on small add
I'd switch you guys if I was your raidleader
but ye
strange python
well i can playoutlaw
but my dps is pretty bad on it
better playing sin
i tried sub
did good add damage
but my RL wants me to hold my cds for 2nd add
and holding shadow blades for 2 min does not feel nice
polar cape
Muh parse
inner pecan
sub will just do better on small adds because it has frontloaded damage
inner pecan
boss damage only matters after 50%
strange python
we were not at 50% after a good bit
inner pecan
using your cds on pull on the boss is literally worthless, you can think of the boss having a -50% dmg taken during that phase
would you normally bust cds into a -50% taken target?
strange python
no
boss should die tonight
even with our scuffed comp
no raidleader xd
i wiped on mythic fetid at 1%
last night
oof
thats a feelsbad
yeh
i was sad
our rl cant play wow due to his shit pc rn
so he kinda gives feedback through twitch stream
strange python
id juast play sin always lmao
inner pecan
by the time u do garrote rup garrote vendetta rupture exsg
strange python
i play outlaw but theres no situation where sin is a bad choice
inner pecan
you just spent 6 gcds of setup doing nothing
those adds need frontloaded dmg
that's why sin is better at big add
strange python
what im doing now is garroting the boss from vanish then as the knockback comes i shadowstep to the add and garrote the add also
stuck shuttle
yeah sin on small add is a big no no
fetid is even easier now after the hotfix
which makes sin on big add even more valuable
hushed maple
Hey guys is it normal, that the Dummy in OG is deflecting and dodging so many attacks?
I have to press Rupture 5 times till it connects sometimes
cant really test my rotation
stiff crag
which dummy (what's the name of it?)
sturdy python
If you're hitting it from the front yeah it'll parry
hollow stone
Hit from the front for more envenom buffs due to parries. Its totally a dps increase 🙃
sturdy python
5 times is a lot though
hollow stone
Trust me, im a doctor
wind abyss
Can anyone suggest how to improve AOE damage on sin in mythics+?
I'm 360 ilvl. Usually, it's around 11k-12k without using Vendetta. If I use Vendetta, dps's around 15k.
It seems low for my ilvl.
signal summit
get 3 ss traits
wind abyss
My opener is Garotte on 3 adds then raptures + FoK or single target bursts
ss? that's for garrote, right?
strange python
yes
wind abyss
Damn. I have just one
slate jacinth
If i do /simc while in Uldir with archive buff, does it count into the sim?
slate jacinth
Because then it could give wrong results outside of Uldir
unkempt temple
does Prey on the weak work on the fetid devourer adds on mythic?
drifting elbow
depends on ur gear but SS is very good for m+
wind abyss
Ok, thanks. I will prey for a new azerite item with SS trait 😃
@unkempt temple I think that if you can stun ur target 10% debuff will be applied
if you can't stun, debuff won't be active
drifting elbow
i dont actually know if those slimes can get stunned....
humble plover
In the Ravenholdt guide, for openers, why are there two headers for Master Assassin talented, but none for Subt talented?
Makes it confusing to figure out which opener I should be using (coming from Outlaw, want to learn the new Sin).
safe matrix
because its assumed if you dont have MA you have subt
since those are the two competitive talents
humble plover
I guess just how they have things tabbed is tripping me up.
safe matrix
if you have complaints forward them to weak 🤷
unkempt temple
i dont see the debuff showing up, and thats both using kidney and cheap shot. so i dont believe its woking. my guildmates were just 100% sure it works
drifting elbow
i mean shrouded is a trait that ultimately will affect opener
strange python
people use master assassin?
humble plover
I think I get scenario 1. MA & TB if you don't have any SS.
strange python
1.7% lower
safe matrix
yeap
depends on your gear
unkempt temple
@safe matrix i have prey on the weak talented, if thats what you mean
safe matrix
yeah its overall damage
drifting elbow
hmm that no shrouded for TB list is out of place
safe matrix
default wow doesnt show other peoples debuffs
drifting elbow
at the end of rotation mention subterfuge talent 😄
safe matrix
but its there
humble plover
That is part of the reason I was so confused, Veq.
drifting elbow
yea its pretty misleading
i assume the normal MA listed rotation is correct than no shrouded one under MA
yeah, vanish into envenoms with MA
humble plover
Gotcha. So the bottom two are for MA + TB. The first assumes no SS traits, and the next is to highlight how things change with at least one SS trait.
Seem accurate?
warm parcel
The one MA line was just a copy paste error
When I wrote it first in a text editor and moved over to rh
And should now be gone
summer aurora
just checked teh PTR so they buffing up SS again ?
inner pulsar
@summer aurora Evidence?
summer aurora
my 370 chest with SS increases garrote dmg with 406 on live but was 665 on PTR
one moment will post pic
bah now it wont let me in due some update -_^
inner pulsar
BTW, you might need to clear your browser cache to see the new guide updates. I had to just now
summer aurora
on ravenholdt?
polar glade
how high ilvl is that ?
summer aurora
370
summer aurora
ye on live its 406
glass vessel
that looks like pre-nerf number
hollow stone
Dont assume it will get buffed
quaint flare
buff 
inner pulsar
Oh god
summer aurora
well checking the last datamine they had some wicked kind of mathematical equation of SS dmg so could be a buff
stray root
325 ilvl ss vs 340 thunder? already got 1 ss
inner pulsar
Its not a buff, its just a tooltip error I'm sure
summer aurora
could be
strange python
@stray root ss prob
stray root
aight
inner pulsar
Sin Rogues don't get buffed, we get nerfed. This is known
summer aurora
xD
viscid token
Is there an ezpz way to use Gatecallers? Just got one and bound it to toxic blade lol
magic thistle
bind it to vendetta
and use it every minute on CD after it comes off
+/- 20 seconds
wild gyro
Doing M Fetid this week: any tips and tricks that are helpful?
stuck shuttle
make sure you're put on big add
wild gyro
oh true? Notciued that
stuck shuttle
pop CDs on 1st and 3rd add
shadowstep should be up usually for most of the stomps
and you can cloak the debuff so it doesn't get bigger
wild gyro
I'm using stomp to get double van garotte on first add
inner pulsar
Pop CDs on Pull and Second add! YOOOLLLLOOOO
wild gyro
yeah haven't been
stuck shuttle
ohs orry misread your reply
wild gyro
but we've gopt both Ass rogues swapping to first little adds
inner pulsar
Seriously, that is what my RL has us doing, then 3 minutes are being used on first first add
wild gyro
but Vend is getting wasted
inner pulsar
But he also has me on little add, so not sure what is going on....
stuck shuttle
both times ive killed it
ive popped CDs on first add
so I'm just sticking with what works
but you def parse better popping CDs on pull and 2nd add
inner pulsar
I feel you dawg, no shame in your game
Not throwing shade grenades here
Not side-eying you
paper root
whats a good uptime for EP on most bosses in uldir?
inner pulsar
2 Warlocks, DH, and Shadow Priest get to start on big add
stuck shuttle
DH should def be on a small add
inner pulsar
I think they are doing that so it buffs the Warlocks, but I agree
stuck shuttle
he can get back to the big add way faster
wild gyro
its about xferring from Small to Big isn't it?
stuck shuttle
well doing it without spreading debuff to everyone
wild gyro
might be worth swapping the arc mage to a small add
gives the melee more space as well
inner pulsar
Yeah, Arc mage melts the small add
edgy lynx
Did you guys see that Prolonged is 113 Wod 185 lol for main stat so if your poor like me and don’t want the Stam could be a better option.
lost sentinel
11.7 with raid buffs etc?
hollow grove
yes
wild gyro
wait whats this @edgy lynx ?
edgy lynx
Old pots from wod
silk jolt
what they called
honest needle
why are sims telling me to use a 370 helm twisted knife over a 370 archive for raid ?
edgy lynx
Draenic Agility pot is 185 for 25sec and prolonged is 113 for 1min so it could be better to use
if you cant afford the new pot.
stuck shuttle
because you already have a lazer matrix @honest needle
stuck shuttle
yeah but you only need 1 for the uldir buff
and the helm has OP on it
which is really good
honest needle
isnt arcive and laser matrix seperate
stuck shuttle
no they don't give 2 buffs
only 1 uldir buff
archive gives an agi buff
but you don't get 2 stacks of reorigination array
inner pulsar
Actually that is weird
honest needle
ya but i still feel the archive is a better trait
inner pulsar
Just for luls, re-sim using the nightly build please @honest needle
honest needle
over twist the knife
inner pulsar
It is
honest needle
ok its simming now
stuck shuttle
always use the nightly build
inner pulsar
I don't expect anything to change by the way, but I always like to check
honest needle
I need to get premium i hate being broke
unborn knot
!ss
stuck shuttle
SS bug is fixed
hollow grove
can anyone check my logs and tell me why im doing 4k less dps than im simming
unborn knot
that's what i was wondering
stuck shuttle
yup it was finally fixed
unborn knot
o pins
stuck shuttle
my guess is the haste from OP
is more valuable
if your stat weights have haste at the top
honest needle
should i really drop it tho or should i stay using archive
stuck shuttle
then it makes sense with the 2x OP stack
inner pulsar
I stand corrected by the way, Twist the Knife at 370 is worth 679 dps, Archive is 653
stuck shuttle
Sims are as accurate as it gets tbh
honest needle
ok also do u guys use the same single target patchwork gear for all fights in raid
or do u guys change for zek n zul
inner pulsar
I change spec
stuck shuttle
I go subt for M Zul
honest needle
well im saying for assaination
inner pulsar
Are you talking about Mythic?
stuck shuttle
no I don't think so
muted jacinth
You wont be sin for mythic zul
stuck shuttle
unless its ghuun
honest needle
or should i use the same traits from this sim for all fights
inner pulsar
If you are talking about Mythic, you should be changing to Sub for Zul
honest needle
Im just asking if there is any fights besides zul i should be changing traits
inner pulsar
Zek you can stay Sin I guess, use same traits, dot the big adds
honest needle
on my gear
inner pulsar
And we are just telling you no
honest needle
so use same single target traits on my gear for all fights
i always thought i should use 1 ss for zek and ghunn
muted jacinth
you're lucky not being forced outlaw for ghuun orb meme :(
strange iris
SS really isn't that great unless you're entering and leaving combat often (like in M+)
muted jacinth
ghuun is still more of a st fight anyway. mythic I'm not sure about
inner pulsar
@muted jacinth Maybe with the changes you wont have to be
honest needle
gem hide or impassive vassage
muted jacinth
impassive
by the time we get to mythic I'm sure I wont be outlaw for it. but for our heroic clear I'm always on 2nd orb duty
honest needle
for m+ are u guys stacking 3 ss traits ? or only using 1
also does laser matrix orm archive work good for m+ as well
inner pulsar
Recruit monks?
muted jacinth
I'm using 2 ss for m+
icy cedar
Hey guys, quick question, if Critical Strike2.12 Agility2.10 Mastery2.05 Haste2.01, do i sock all crit gems?
stuck shuttle
sim it
muted jacinth
we only have one monk currently. roster too full to just recruit for h lol
terse crescent
cant you just socket one crit, sim again, then socket whats higher?
strange iris
i think the top M+ rogues are using 3 SS even if they are 340 items
muted jacinth
not sure about that
glad zinc
can someone help me as to why im doing 4k less then my sim?
strange iris
there's also a known issue with Laser Matrix pulling out of combat adds (dont know if been fixed)
twin hatch
@strange iris dont use it in m+
honest needle
how do u guys sim for m+
terse crescent
it did for us yesterday on zul trash 👀
honest needle
what do u set the stuff 2
glad zinc
im just using the bot spam subsection and doing !sim i dont know much about simming
muted jacinth
@glad zinc link wcl parse and show us your sim?
strange iris
ya i dont use it, i was just letting day know since he asked about it in M+
honest needle
for simmming for m+ should i sim 3 bosses for 40 seconds ?
strange iris
i do 5 myself and also adjust your buffs because you wont have full raid buffs
honest needle
5 for 40 seconds ?
twin hatch
guys question im always first in opening also vs other assa but than in sustain i drop so bad. i refresh dot at 3 sec left or into pandemic ecc but dunno what i do wrong. playing tb spec coz have shit azerite tratits
the question is
when i use tb be sure for all duration to not refresh dots in the window
but do i need to have also planning always up for all window of tb
or not necessary?
strange iris
do you have an on-use trinket you are using at the beginning? that will pull you ahead and then you will fade away until it is up again
twin hatch
no i dont use galecaller but taloc myth trinket
when i was low with ss i uset gc into exa
sturdy python
Make sure you don't have better than taloc trnket as a first thing, it's pretty bad
twin hatch
ik but it sims better than 355 gc
muted jacinth
my 385 of talocs trinket doesnt sim higher than my 355 galecalleds
strange iris
are you saying you're letting garrote/rupture expire sometimes in order to envenom during TB?
muted jacinth
put galecallers on with exsang I bet you sim higher
twin hatch
dont have ss traits
muted jacinth
I'd still sim it
twin hatch
no im so fuckin unlucky man
strange iris
you dont need SS for raid
twin hatch
have 1 ss shoulder 340
stuck shuttle
the MA/TB build is currently better
twin hatch
im playing it hecktix
ma + tb
and use enve into vanish for crit buff
but dunno how maximize tb buff when im out vendetta and cant spam cp spender to maintain also planning up
stuck shuttle
just use TB on CD
its okay to refresh bleeds within TB
you want atleast 1x Envenom within window
2 is preferred
3x envenom on opener/lust
maybe even 4 with lust
twin hatch
opening is fine
im doing 2 enve
first with 4 cp + tb so enve with 5
and the second one only with tb but not planning too coz dont have enoght energy to do it in planning time
summer aurora
twin hatch
but idk why im simming 2/3 k less than my sim
hollow stone
4 w lust and extreme crit luck lol
inland hornet
Is mastery>haste in m+ ?
sterile garden
can anyone help me with the opener playing 2 dubble dose ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fF63kEzmmiRBHscrbQJgLN
hollow stone
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
inland hornet
makes sense then
strange iris
I believe you should be using TB immediately on CD, you shouldn't wait to line it up with anything. it is better to get the maximum TB casts possible during fight
fading spade
Damn what am I missing that I am near same ilvl but simming 1k kess?
opaque grotto
Azerite? Trinkets?
hollow stone
For starters, he has 2 dd. which sims best for st. then prob weaps, maybe trinkets, maybe stats
twin hatch
apple me?
fading spade
I guess being stuck with SS limits you
muted jacinth
cant wait to get zul shoulders tonight for the juicy 17k sim
hollow stone
No, syn
sterile garden
how do you play with 2 dds been runing ss all bfa ?
hollow stone
@twin hatch you mean your actual dps is lower than sim dps? Cause thats not uncommon
twin hatch
@strange iris gonna try so man
opaque grotto
I feel like SS is better in reality than it is in sims
It’s a really versatile trait either way
stuck shuttle
its better for parsing on heroic fights
hollow stone
It is def better in practice than sim
stuck shuttle
but MA/TB is def better for M Prog
fading spade
I enjoy it. I just dont like exang. TB builds tend to feel smoother
Tome e at least
twin hatch
oh ye also another q if my tb windonw is gonna be of like 1 sec left and have 3cp is bettere to use them for an enve into tb or going for more cp and miss tb but make a envenom with 4+ cp?
opaque grotto
I must just suck ass with MA because I always do WAY better with SS than with DD
With azerite at the same levels
karmic mortar
sow hat traits do you want with MA build?
onyx edge
Quick question, when you run a MM+ with CT, is it worth to use it on ST ?
final stone
@onyx edge no not on st
onyx edge
Okay thank you!
final stone
👌
timber nexus
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
is double ss still good?
stuck shuttle
for M+
past harbor
@stuck shuttle for 10+ key would you still do double SS
or would you rather have archive + 1SS
strange python
i see many people with ss on vectis and fetid mythic in top logs
sim is probably bullshit
past harbor
feel like sim has broken on ss forever
urban tulip
Anyone know if you can make a macro to shadowstep Jade Serpent or only through focus?
stuck shuttle
@past harbor Archive is ok
2xSS will def benefit you more in M+
@strange python well yes, because vanish lines up very well with the add spawning on M Vectis
and for Fetid, they probably go Exsang for nuking add
past harbor
@stuck shuttle 2xSS is better than 1archive 1 ss even on a 10+ key where the mobs live longer? also the archive piece is 15ilvl higher
stuck shuttle
but those are probably people with 370+385 SS traits
daring imp
too small of a difference to notice, trill
stuck shuttle
@past harbor I would think archive though
daring imp
the higher the key, the "less stupidly great" SS is
it's still great on high keys, just not as good as lower ones
stuck shuttle
unless you have a beast group
and +10s are nothing
like a guild group or something
past harbor
@daring imp @stuck shuttle thanks guys, yeah I figured bc the mobs are living a bit longer
daring imp
well by then the "mid/low keys" will be 10's for you :XX
past harbor
I'm 355ilvl we go ta 364 havoc dh + 365 dk tank
lone junco
ahts funny. My group is overgeared and perform badly
stuck shuttle
works fine
past harbor
pugging the third dps is a nightmare though
had a fmage last night that didn't use blizzard
daring imp
aff lockz are good
stuck shuttle
Fire Mage is crazy right now
past harbor
the DH and I are pulling 13-15k dps on 3-4 trash mob groups consistently though
short pivot
Guys, best usage of dark iron racial? I use it after tb to envenom with it
Or should i pop on pull?
tranquil marlin
What makes sin so much better then outlaw for 10+ m+ keys? Its just the priority add burst?
stuck shuttle
I wouldn't say sin is SOO much better
but sin does bring more boss damage
while keeping up in AoE
short pivot
Simply with dots u can do mechanics and not lose out much on deeps
Considtant st and aoe
short pivot
Why not?
short pivot
Every comp has a rogue
stuck shuttle
in PvP only
short pivot
Now?!
stuck shuttle
not saying rogues are bad
just saying were constantly getting nerfed in PvP
yeah it happened yesterday I believe
short pivot
Fuckin hell thats substantial
tranquil marlin
Should give sin a try this weak.. on the other hand OL is good on teaming 😄
stuck shuttle
sin is just as good on Teeming
with CT talent
these affixes this week are a joke
short pivot
I never used ct, just rupture all targets
Always beating everyone on adds
Rupture all + 1 envenom= ez top
teal glen
on higher keys CT is so much better, especially during fortified
short pivot
Hmm will try it out
So if ct u dont multi rupture?
Just ss garrote then ct+envenoms?
And Fok naturally?
stuck shuttle
rotation is usually
3x Garrote
CT
Fok and rupture spread
to 2 or 3 targets
then just envenom spam
short pivot
Ah aight thanks