you need to really dig deep and understand the what why and how of these players
#assassination
dark token
you dont need to look too deep just look at CD usage
zenith cedar
Things are different now than they were before
dark token
where did they vanish, vendetta, symbols, SB, etc
dark token
everyone is assumed to have good uptime and CP usage thats a given
hazy sphinx
Yeah but u keep telling me my traits are bad and shit, which I can't actively change quickly.
dark token
ye ik
hazy sphinx
I gotta work with what I got.
dark token
im saying idk what else you could do except use cds better on short boss fights
ruby idol
The secret to parsing is just play better
dark token
for heroic at least
ruby idol
Like just be good at the game
zenith cedar
@ruby idol ur not wrong
ruby idol
And not have to ask questions about how to execute your rotation
And you will parse high
Because that means you're critically thinking about stuff
Which means you can react to the rng nature of boss mechanics
To maximize dmg
dark token
typically before starting any boss fight with a new spec i look at the top 5 parses and plan cd usage
zenith cedar
Its hard to have perfect decision making on the fly if you don't know wtf you are doing
dark token
unless raid requires differently
hard sonnet
On boss fights with no adds etc. Do you guys pool ur energy normally, or just pool when ur about to use cds? Cause I feel like my dps drops off drastically after my opener and I Can never get it back up
zenith cedar
uhhh you should be pooling before every finisher
you want x2 mutilates during EP while building CP for your next finisher
aka 10% more mutilate damage
same with envenom
round harbor
Tldr; high uptime on ep is good
short token
no buffs
zenith cedar
Ah
short token
try toxic blade too
errant mauve
even then im still low...
short token
and see what happens
final citrus
and you're using subterfuge
autumn bloom
that is a bizarre sim
short token
subterfuge is top for me too even w/out SS
round harbor
^ for some it is
errant mauve
master assassin then?
round harbor
Sim it
short token
master assassin not gonna be 3k dps either
zenith cedar
^^^ lol this is the best answer
round harbor
See what is better for you....with raid buffs enabled
final citrus
no
final citrus
its justy no buffs thats the problem
errant mauve
i dont think my gear is shit...
final citrus
^ not accurate at all
zenith cedar
well its not, you have 372 item level
ruby idol
No reorig array, no raid buffs, no pot, no lust
final citrus
its just buffs missing from the sim
hazy sphinx
I'll look up the strats that other people are pulling
zenith cedar
Ok well there is no reason to not have buffs in your sim
ruby idol
Is a shitload of damage
hazy sphinx
See how it goes
round harbor
Sim with buffs and see what the difference is
zenith cedar
unless youre trolling
ruby idol
I mean theres reasons, trying to find a gearset for like temple or kr keys
errant mauve
i have no buffs at all
ruby idol
Simming without buff I mean
zenith cedar
why are you simming witrh no buffs at all
like literally what scenario are you trying to simulate
i dont quite understand
round harbor
Probly
zenith cedar
im falling for it
round harbor
Same
errant mauve
uh, im not trolling at all...
im actually wondering what im doing wrong
aside from buffs
i feel like my dps should be higher
zenith cedar
for what reason
round harbor
I can't improve your sims
zenith cedar
because you think so?
round harbor
Idk
errant mauve
because 11.7 is garbage...
zenith cedar
ok yeah, 100% confirmed troll
errant mauve
and my ilvl is 372
round harbor
Sim with real buffs so it's baseline
ruby idol
Just sim with optimal raid buffs and come back
zenith cedar
obligatory "ur shit kid"
round harbor
Blocked him
errant mauve
uh ok?
safe matrix
The standard is to sim with buffs
so you should do that so people can actually compare, its the standard for a reason
zenith cedar
its like writing a paper in chinese and asking me to grade it using english rules
theres no baseline brother
safe matrix
anyways, no need to pester him further 🤷
so continue with your days, and stop being so rash >.>
errant mauve
k simming with full buffs, with both ex/sub and then MA and TB
past trail
i am simming higher with master assassin and double dose ove 1 of them being SS + sub, yet i feel like im doing less damage
hazy sphinx
Im simming way higher with MA and TB that SS
short token
welcome back
errant mauve
first is ex/and sub second is TB and MA
safe matrix
See guys, you don't need to jump to the toxicity right away
I explained why he should sim differently, and probably spent less effort than you guys did 😉
zenith cedar
but im toxic
versed estuary
Why does it show the best dps by stacks being archive but if you look it up by combination double dose is highest for 3 stacks on herodamage?
crisp hollow
versed estuary
oh so the combination is just the normal and not the raid buff
safe matrix
Leading by example, hoping that my nontoxicity will inspire others
...isnt working yet, but here's to hoping. 🤷
depends which one you look at, HD has 3 sets of archive
0,5,10 RA stacks
versed estuary
but it doesn't shot the 5 and 10 for combination
i was confused on that part until he mentioned the raid buff
safe matrix
I don't know offhand
fallow estuary
i don'T understand allstar points
Does the % of your raiting count?
Does it make a difference between world rank 2 and world rank 100 because both are 99%?
almost every log but mother in top 20 - some rank 2's etc but still my allstar points suck
zenith cedar
ur such a nerd lol
fallow estuary
thats why im here?
zenith cedar
I get it, I used to be there but damn, i cant believe I was like that
autumn bloom
you just wanted to post your all orange warcraftlogs box
it's okay
it is very orange
autumn bloom
'if i wanted the thing i just did'
short token
lol
fallow estuary
i just don't understand allstar points
zenith cedar
im not impressed
why does it matter so much to you
do you have something else in your life that brings you pride other than WoW? Because I didn't, and that's why I used to care so much
I only ask because I care about you, like a son
autumn bloom
maybe the WCL discord would be better to post your WCL related questions
unless it is actually about your parses as assassination
fallow estuary
competition matters to me in a game i spend alot of time and resources on
autumn bloom
in which case
fallow estuary
and having a ranking system which you don't understand is something easily fixable
by asking how it works 🤔
i allways like to compete - doesn't matter which game or sport
zenith cedar
go compete in college
fallow estuary
if you're different then..good for you
autumn bloom
basically it measures your insecurity
zenith cedar
and in the workforce
short token
but you post heroic logs?
autumn bloom
the higher the insecurity you have the more your allstar points go down
thats what ALLSTAR stands for
All (your insecurity) Star points
zenith cedar
My advice is to take your competitive drive and channel it into beating your college colleagues into submission with good grades
and get a job at a top tech company
and chill out making six figures at 20 something
civic palm
O _O you are the least helpful people on the planet O _O
short token
in all honesty tho, if you have a question about something just ask, such as "what are allstar points and how do they differ fight to fight" I think the screenshot of all your parses doesn't impress people on the mythic level
fallow estuary
So does somebody know if it only counts the % or do individual rankings count?
safe matrix
It's both
safe matrix
Because your number is just a really fine percentage
zenith cedar
first result on google solves your question
autumn bloom
but if you google it how could you show people your orange numbers
tight anvil
is it worth pooling energy when using exsang build for raids?
safe matrix
And can y'all calm down for 5 minutes while I make dinner >.>
autumn bloom
@tight anvil yes b ut not at the expense of dot uptime
fallow estuary
Did you just link to a reddit thread that does not answer my question?
tight anvil
tyty
stone quartz
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
fallow estuary
How does the linked reddit thread solve it? The only thing that it explains is that your highest logged kill counts and not your average
Did you even read it before linking?
safe matrix
autumn bloom
make sure you post your screenshot there too tho it's very relevant to your question
safe matrix
Conversations done, you should get your answer in the wcl discord
That's a solid answer
supple hearth
First pin seems very relevant
versed estuary
Is it worth it to build combo points before TB or is TB just on CD
steep osprey
Is SS still worth using after the nerf and what did the nerf do?
autumn bloom
tb on cooldown but monitor your resources so you dont need to delay it to not overcap it
hazy sphinx
96 / 72 on mythic taloc
supple hearth
All star Warcraft discussion can be moved to off topic or the wcl discord or PM's.
Tysm xoxo
versed estuary
I often find myself using TB and then garrote is also about to drop followed by rupture so I don't get but one envenom so I wasn't sure
autumn bloom
miz do ur weakauras track exsang empowerment
steep osprey
I play with SS in m+ with subterfuge and vigor, bloodmallet says SS is worst in HecticaddCleave and herodamage says the same , but if u play with subterfuge and MoD SS is BIS for HecticaddCleave, what should i go after? is SS good in m+ or should i aim for something else?
safe matrix
bloodmallet doesnt restealth
peak breach
SS is god in m+
fallow estuary
SS is insane in M+ - Bloodmallet also doesn't sim with subterfuge thats why it's based so low there
terse sun
But herodamage is showing the same as bloodmalet with subterfuge and vigor talents, but if you have Subterfuge and MoD SS is BIS, what dose MoD do that buff SS that much??
civic palm
@autumn bloom There is a bar that is hardcode for 15seconds (or so) for EX above the NRG bar.
autumn bloom
awesome, im gonna try it
fallow estuary
@terse sun Can you link the sim you are referring to? i can only find one where SS was simmed with MfD+Sub and without either of them
on Herodamage
peak breach
I sim 40 sec vs 5-6 bosses on raidbots to simulate m+. Haven’t simmed via herodamage or bloodmallet.
fallow estuary
@peak breach the only problem there is that it puts the value of SS alot higher then what it acutally is
since the APL uses vanish
and you basicly get double the value
but you only have vanish for a few packs in reality
peak breach
True. I find ss so smooth to play so probably would have stuck to it even if it meant a small dps loss. 10+ keys arent really hard these days anyways and I’m not planning to push rank 1 runs.
fallow estuary
Don't get me wrong - SS is still the best trait in M+
Just wanted to point out that you might get abit to high numbers the way you try to simulate M+
peak breach
Yeah, i know. Just opted if ss wouldnt be the best i’d still run it.
Regarding the dps loss not being to big.
Too big*
trail fjord
I only do Mythic+, no raiding. Sub or Assas?
peak breach
Depends on dungeon i’d say
And also depends on how comfortable you are playing sub or sin
And traits
trail fjord
I feel like Sin is way easier, is Sub more dmg if played optimally?
supple hearth
@trail fjord there's a guide in pins for both that might help u decide
But yes what u said basically
red plaza
Sub relies on the m+ team to play around you. Sin is better for pugging
trail fjord
perfect ty all
brazen copper
is melee dmg supposed to be top for sin or do i have too much haste?
peak breach
As stated before packs with 6+ mobs sub wins, less mobs sin wins.
molten moon
Is there an ideal rotation with MA and TB? The guide isn't clear and my sims are showing lower damage for SS and Subterfuge in raid
rocky pumice
is MP better in any scenario to EB?
worn ginkgo
Hey quick question. I was using 1 rune of SS but got a new piece of gear with Double on it which according to bloodmallet is way better. What should my opening rotation be now since Gar is back down to 1 CP?
tepid fractal
@worn ginkgo rotation for ur talents and having/not having SS here http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
visual token
tepid fractal
also is it still valuable to FoK against 2 targets? was using mutilates before as generator. Crit around 20-22%
hearty kelp
Hi all, is there any gauge on the ideal uptime for EP i should be maintaining?
keen spruce
Hey guys where can i find a good assassination pve guide ? Anything other than icy veins , i feel like its outdated.
tepid fractal
@keen spruce http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
sage owl
Is elaborate planning basically always a stronger choice than blindside?
royal lantern
the fuck is that new sin trait on8.1 lol
ornate mantle
when do we get 8.1?
warm geode
@sage owl blindside is shit atm
molten moon
why do you gar twice out of vanish with SS and Sub? Why not gar rup gar like the opener?
warm geode
u need 3 cp before vanish to g,r,g
warm geode
ppl say is better g,r,g i do g,g,r because muscular memory
supple compass
anybody play m+ without ss just due to azerite ilvl pieces
quick echo
quaint flare
junior condor
with toxic blade is it better to do it on cd or after envenom?
keen spruce
So i'm trying to do the rotation from the ravenhold guide but i cant seem to find where it explains what to do when you're mid fight and vendetta and vanish comes up. I have 1 stack of shrouded suff.
Whats the rotation in that situation
round harbor
https://gyazo.com/21bfbcc505d180e423b8bcbf671dd68a got my sub set ready incase we down fetid tonight
team #novers
daring imp
lul
mythrax glitched out
kept spawning a thousand visions instead of going to last phase o_o
exotic glen
yeah you're not the first ones to experience this
tulip pasture
Um. Question, Trying out Sin.. In the guide i dont see any real mention of an actual rotation on Cleave, just bleed/envenom priority. Do i switch to FoK or do i keep using Mut to build combo points ?
exotic glen
go read the last post by kojiyama in #tc-updates
ornate hazel
Hey guys whats ur opener without SS?
hollow cloud
tulip pasture
Thanks man @exotic glen .. So if im understanding.. FoK is basically just a poison distributer until i have 4+/5+ with DD
safe matrix
@ornate hazel theres a few in the pinned guide
exotic glen
yeah pretty much dude
rigid imp
A quick and maybe a dumb one: is it woth to use crimson tempest on 1 target while there are no adds?
spare cloud
rigid imp
Ex: Mythic Zek'voz
dire spoke
I mean
spare cloud
You play outlaw on Zek'voz
rigid imp
I know but i wanted to test
rigid imp
kk ty c:
honest needle
for mythic plus do u guys use 1 ss trait or more than 1 usually ?
past harbor
battle potion agility or bursting blood
spare cloud
Sim
past harbor
how
spare cloud
drifting elbow
its pretty clear that agi pot is to be used
dmg one is only useful if u need raw dmg to push skip phase strats
safe matrix
under simulation options
manic stirrup
does anyone know if its worth running 3x archive of the titans?
spare cloud
I'm so confused about that statement
manic stirrup
vs thunderous blast for example
spare cloud
How is the damage one any better to push phases
drifting elbow
cuz its raw dmg done
spare cloud
So?
Both last 25 seconds, all it depends on is the raw damage you gain
wheter its flat damage or additional damage to current abilities from agi pot
doesn't matter at all for phase pushing
also agility pot doesn't snapshot
drifting elbow
yeah but raw dmg is more consistent vs agi gains turned into dmg factors that has IE crit rng
zealous lily
so the little add on mythrax mythic apparently your dots on him keep ticking after he teleports away?
is this the case?
spare cloud
It is even less consistent in a case of pushing phases
drifting elbow
its not less consistent
spare cloud
If you use a potion to push a phase in 10 seconds
you want to use agi pot
and not bursting blood
drifting elbow
we r not talking about short term shit
spare cloud
You are talking about phase pushing
If potion of bursting blood did more damage then you would use that
🤷
drifting elbow
IE. u wanna burst Zul in hc without overgeared
to skip add phases
raw dmg is consistent for long term
spare cloud
makes it even worse on zul
because you cleave on adds
in which case you lose boss damage
drifting elbow
not true at all
drifting elbow
adds are irrelevant in pushing boss
spare cloud
just shared between targets
drifting elbow
cuz u kill them instantly anyway
spare cloud
so it does less boss damage
spare cloud
You have no idea what you are talking about
dark token
less dmg ✅
drifting elbow
sure its less dmg on aoe
dark token
rng vs consistent ✅
drifting elbow
💭
dark token
sucks on aoe ✅
spare cloud
If you want to consistently push a phase
you would want agi over bursting blood any day
peak saffron
how are you guys utilizing vanish on mythic Fetid?
drifting elbow
whatever ur case is, guide does mention potion to be used for pushing phases
not my problem
its been used for such thing for pushing even in legion
despite it being worse than prolonged
drifting elbow
''For potions you should use Battle pot of Agility in nearly every situation. There are very edge cases where Potion of Bursting Blood might come ahead of Agility in single target situations.''
edge cases such as phase
spare cloud
Prolonged lasted 1 minute
drifting elbow
i know??
drifting elbow
dmg one was still used for fucking pushing in legion
drifting elbow
????
drifting elbow
what??
drifting elbow
im not talking about using prolonged on pushing
spare cloud
that it is for pushing phasese
drifting elbow
<.<
spare cloud
Show me
where in the guide
does it say
that you use bursting blood over agility
for pushing
drifting elbow
''There are very edge cases where Potion of Bursting Blood might come ahead''
can u fucking read
candid smelt
☹️
drifting elbow
oh please do EXPLAIN what situation then
spare cloud
the reason why you used the other potion in LEGION
drifting elbow
since u clearly know WHAT it means
spare cloud
because prolonged power lasts
1 minute
which means
Lets say you have to push the boss in 1 minute 30
You use prolonged as prepot
have it for 1 min
after 1 min
you dont use prolonged again
because you need to push in 30 seconds
which means half of the potion would be wasted for that purpose
(thats without considering overall damage of course)
spare cloud
It would be the case for Zul HC:
in your example
you still dont use bursting blood on zul
to push
you use agi
in any case
drifting elbow
clearly guldan disagrees with that
drifting elbow
using dmg potion instead of prolonged
candid smelt
This is my first time reading in this chat and Veqad killed it Im not coming back here
drifting elbow
oh sure ban away
spare cloud
I'm not a mod
drifting elbow
im sure tons of ppl spreaded misinformation in this channel anyway
spare cloud
I am just telling you
drifting elbow
spare cloud
that purposely spreading misinformation
drifting elbow
''purposely'' 
spare cloud
which you are doing right now
spare cloud
Coming back to your question about edge cases
hot coyote
misinformation doesn't mean lies......
exotic glen
i've read this entire conversation now, and i can honestly say veqad, you're a big fucking 🥄
spare cloud
for example: a boss takes additional physical damage
exotic glen
shit mate
honest needle
for mythic plus do u guys use 1 ss trait or more than 1 usually ?
exotic glen
as many as possible day
spare cloud
the boss takes additional physical damage then bursting blood might be better because assa does a large portion of magic damage
harsh totem
Is not having a monk in my raid, killing my parse?
honest needle
so 3 ss is best still for m+
spare cloud
just as an example of an edge case
exotic glen
right but you're now faced with the situation that you know your idea might be wrong, and pretty much everyone is saying you're in the wrong here
so if you were to tell people what you were previously, that would be with intent
spare cloud
Another example would be simply going for logs
in which case you fish for a try
where you have a large amount of proccs
in which case bursting blood can do more damage than agility
but that is unrealistic
too
thats what a niche case it
exotic glen
@honest needle there was some talk about scent of blood being extremely good as well, so if you have one with higher ilvl than SS, go for it
spare cloud
not "pushing a boss earlier"
exotic glen
or else, ss all the way
drifting elbow
spare cloud
Anyways
if you are not sure what you are talking about
please don't
Makes it easier on everyone
because now someone might actually use bursting blood to push zul faster
exotic glen
you're welcome to discuss this if you want to veqad, but you're gonna have to come up with some actual data in this case
drifting elbow
i do know that
spare cloud
Sim calculates that kind of stuff
If it were the case it would be just flat out better
swift pine
👀
safe matrix
I love that everyone is so passionate about this, remember to above all be kind and be willing to change your info if someone presents a solid case.
swift pine
@exotic glen dont make me break my promise 😉
exotic glen
i think i was being pretty fair liavre
i cant remember what promise we're talking about rare
safe matrix
I meant overall, I'm in raid right now so I have to go back and check this out.
short shuttle
For M+ farming, is it worth dropping down to 340/355 azerite pieces with Shrouded Suffocation over 370/385 ones?
exotic glen
depends what the high ilvl ones are
short shuttle
Just for Garrote bleed damage
Like lets say Laser Matrix or Archive with lets say Scent of Blood on one of them or maybe Double Dose
drifting elbow
DD is weak in m+
spare cloud
Double dose highly depends on the dungeon
and the difficulty + pull size
also if its lets say tyrannical
drifting elbow
sure it depends but pulls are usually 2+ so DD doesnt do much dmg since FoK spamming
spare cloud
I mean for overall damage
exotic glen
wish they would finish that m+ profile
spare cloud
obviously not
Like, for overall damage you will take SS any day of the week
However, lets say you have like a warrior and a frostmage in your group
thorny shore
Guys what explains the variation on people doing ST Raid Bosses and doing the same dps with Exsanguinate/Toxic Blade?
spare cloud
on tyrannical + 12
exotic glen
hm
spare cloud
then you might struggle with bosses
exotic glen
would honestly still go ss over dd
spare cloud
so it might make sense to go singletarget for a save clear
vast forum
tbh, SS is on par with DD on ST as well
spare cloud
but then again, 99,9% of the time you just go with SS
vast forum
so you still don't drop the amazing aoe for a 0.1% increase in ST
vast forum
ofc you play exsang in m+
spare cloud
Just go SS, it will give you a large gain in 99% of the situations
exotic glen
yeah
drifting elbow
they would be same level of values even at 2min boss fight?
exotic glen
idk what the cooldown lineup of every single simulation time is
vast forum
but not by a large margin
vast forum
i have 2x SS an only 1 DD
exotic glen
whats ur rogues ilvl even toph lmao
drifting elbow
never even got one in 340+
exotic glen
like 350?
spare cloud
like 367?
vast forum
so i have no choice but to play exsang
exotic glen
oh nice
exotic glen
pure turalyon?
spare cloud
inb4 stalking your warrior
exotic glen
creep
inner pulsar
Soooo yeah, the changes to Mythic Fetid make it WAY easier
spare cloud
His logs are actually alright
exotic glen
eyuhe
spare cloud
any assa questions?
spare cloud
Argo whats with your logs
exotic glen
does i refresh dottos
spare cloud
exotic glen
nice dude
exotic glen
idk if thats even a lot haha
lone junco
socket luck has been pretty strong
drifting elbow
i only have 1 socket on 2 chars 
lone junco
drifting elbow
hot coyote
rings btw
lone junco
no sockets
dire spoke
go away liryn
exotic glen
no sockets
hot coyote
never
fallen sandal
I've got 6 sockets guys
civic palm
ok
dire spoke
I have gear
exotic glen
i have a rogue
spare cloud
I have a character
inner pulsar
Y'all better watch out, starting to sound mighty OT....
dire spoke
no u
spare cloud
safe matrix
Anyways yeah thats a good idea, #off-topic
strange python
can I run sub without SS just for m+ or is that a bad idea?
exotic glen
bad idea
spare cloud
I run sub all the time
hot coyote
who would've guessed
exotic glen
stop lying toph, you dont run
strange python
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ccYwBL4S1Cb96AZw3Yvdwj
is my current setup
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Pza9Z1mmbM6r94ks15eqE
with ideal setup
strange python
but MA is so aids for m+
safe matrix
those are single target sims, which isnt the largest part of m+
strange python
exasng was simming less the last time I did it, can try re-simming
safe matrix
subt/ss is really strong for m+
strange python
yeah I really like it, but I won't have SS for it
exotic glen
single target sims are not m+
spare cloud
dire spoke
boss fights are too long for MA this week
spare cloud
me running subterfuge
cease this degeneracy
spare cloud
exotic glen
can i get some mod help
safe matrix
NExt up is a mute
spare cloud
Richard mutes directly
strange python
okay I think I got it.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rS6ysUsKPyzb3DCTUvRwCq
This one for M+
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gHcPvowsXK6jUMrBiQJxZV
This one for raids
Does that look OK?
exotic glen
are you memeing me
strange python
no?
exotic glen
told you to play exsanguinate over toxic blade
serene nacelle
Run the M+ sim with 3-5 targets, 40s, without buffs
strange python
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cFUdKZwzPPPc2AuFqPX4vz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jpFU5d3EEz2vK7TdRUf5LX
honestly not sure how to do multiple targets for simming, but I tried doing it with exsang and CT and it's simming lower - did I mess it up somehow?
exotic glen
a bit
3 targets is too few, people usually use 6
or you can use the herodungeon profile
strange python
sorry, I'm still new to this simming stuff
it's helping a lot though, when I can figure it out
exotic glen
so far you can only get so far with simming
drifting elbow
exsan does affect CT bleeds right?
exotic glen
a lot of the stuff im saying is from testing and consensus
and yeah it does veqad
but deverex, a profile for m+ is being built
strange python
would CT be good for certain m+ only you think? I think someone told me you needed 3+ targets to make it viable
exotic glen
that should accurately sim us a bit more
drifting elbow
i think there is like only 2 dungeons where CT is bad choice
exotic glen
the best rogues in the world recommend ONLY using poison bomb for temple of sethralis
because the packs are small, and the dungeon is high st
ct for everything else
strange python
I love poison bomb but it's so RNG. I can go 10~ finishers without seeing one
then suddenly 5 in a row
strange python
what's AOE rot like with CT, SS, and Subt?
I've been doing Garr 4x -> Rupture, then FON spam until 3-4 CP and then rupture tabbing
drifting elbow
FoK
exotic glen
its still somewhat debatable
strange python
I'd probably do Garr x4 -> CT -> Rupture at 2-3, FON, rupture again, reapply CT as needed?
exotic glen
but on pull always do garrotes ofc
so it would most likely look like garrote x3 > CT > builder > ruptures going out
kind crater
which 100 talent would people say for Tol Dagor?
exotic glen
from here you dont do a rotation
but follow some conditions
go read the latest post by kojiyama in #tc-updates deverex to find out what builders to use
and then also, you refresh crimson tempest at 2 seconds left of duration for pandemic
follow the conditions are you will be fine
strange python
OK - I'll try that out. About to do a 10 UR so will try out CT
thank you for your help
cunning needle
i think it was 3x garrote -> CT
exotic glen
just dont be discouraged if you fuck up
cunning needle
not 4x garrote
exotic glen
yeah thats what i told him?
strange python
the reason I was doing 4x garrote was because they fixed the SS bug, right?
so I figured why not get out a 4th DOT if I haev 4 mobs up
cunning needle
oh only saw derevex saying 4x garrote
exotic glen
and you dont want to overcap on combo points
cunning needle
^
strange python
ok - I'll keep it at 3
cunning needle
waste of CP and you'll have enough energy for 3x then CT
strange python
I just kind of do what I thought felt right
exotic glen
well hope you find this doing more damage for you
strange python
dumb question, but CT even with tyran week?
exotic glen
yes
cunning needle
maybe
pearl meteor
depends lol
exotic glen
ask again
strange python
oh dear
daring imp
pearl meteor
🤔
daring imp
40s instead of 1min
pearl meteor
🤔
safe matrix
you'd rather take PB on tyr KR though
since you cant really get the full usage of CT
pearl meteor
and lvl of key
daring imp
i wish i some day get to 20's and have 3x highest ilvl scent of blood
pearl meteor
🤔
marsh bloom
so hard to find a normal taloc group...
warm geode
345 ss or 385 arc for m+ ? i played with boths and still dont know what is best .-.
steep obsidian
you can do a few sims of short fights and mutli target on raidbots and get accurate answer?
daring imp
SS \o/ \o\ /o/
steep obsidian
¯_(ツ)_/¯
strange python
wow CT is really fun
daring imp
wait until your tank starts pulling very slowly
exotic glen
the fuck is arc
warm geode
u simc for 6 targets patchwerk or 3 , boths with 40sec ?
steep obsidian
id geuss the 385 but that is just a guess
drifting elbow
i would like to know reasoning behind 6 targets when u dont usually pull that many in normal situation in m+
cunning needle
approx 1.47 fucktons
steep obsidian
you keep full stacks of archive if your tank doesnt pull too slow
daring imp
i do patchwerk 3t for bad tanks and 6t light movement for good ones
steep obsidian
its decent
exotic glen
archive i think
steep obsidian
and its nice starting a boss with full cds and close to max stacks too
daring imp
@drifting elbow you should do it, cc infested and pull 2 packs for example, isn't a bad thing at all, just makes stuff faster and dps numbers bigger, of course if your group can handle it @_@"
cunning needle
yeah it depends on your group. i reckon the 340 ss > 385 archive for trash
daring imp
also a few dungeons can't do 6t pulls for example kings rest or atal dazar but well ...
drifting elbow
i do get big pulls on like 5ish levels, u dont usually do same without high gear on 10ish level tho
daring imp
oh boy, you're gonna have so much fun when you get good tanks on your group
drifting elbow
oh believe me i do get big pulls since running a lot of pug grps
warm geode
simming here, since is teeming, going to put 6t
drifting elbow
most of them doesnt turn out well 😃
daring imp
i still remember the first 11 motherlode i did with a good tank, not any regular pug, i ended it with almost 18k overall deeps, he really knew his stuff, helps that he's a dk and dks are really balanced as tanks right now tho
strange python
sorry, last question - do I keep up CT for bosses?
steep panther
what are you guys running for azurite traits this week
drifting elbow
i've been reloading ui every 30min when stuff doesnt react with abilities in game
strange python
was doing that this boss and I had no eneergy for envnoms
cunning needle
no you dont derevex
strange python
ty
cunning needle
i think CT is only worth doing on >=3 targets
daring imp
@steep panther ss, blightborne infusion, ttk lul
daring imp
lust off?
warm geode
if is need to set off, no
daring imp
it's decent, yeah
drifting elbow
well that sim would not make sense with buffs xd
daring imp
maybe flask/food is ok tho, or shout depending on comp or inscription buff
not lust tho, unless it's a really friggin' hard pack?
drifting elbow
with tyra week, no lust
drifting elbow
that is looooong list of gear
daring imp
big crit/mastery gear
warm geode
doing again, forgot to disable the raid trait buff
-.-``
i do 12k iterations
just putting decent gear to test aoe
high ilvl, crit mastery and socket gear
34k last simc, no more aoe simc
3 SS
clear harbor
Oh boy got the fetid hc chest yesterday 👌 running ss archive and laser Matrix for raid and 2ss and rezan for m+ :) FeelsGoodMan
daring imp
ewwww laser
peak saffron
how are you guys using vanish on mythic Fetid?
river quarry
2ss and 1 double dose here
dmg went up big time for trash packs
from the garbage I was using before lol
& uhh just use it at the best moment cody
pastel wasp
Hey I like laz0r
drifting elbow
in m+ des?
kinda doubting that kind of value with DD when u FoK a lot on trash packs
drifting elbow
well this week has teeming too
if u wanna do little more dps for bosses, fire away
but trash with DD is doubtful
pastel wasp
2x SS and 1x DD - best of both worlds? Lol
I think he meant overall p
Not just trash
drifting elbow
🤷
drifting elbow
do mythic raid for one azerite and pray rest to come from weekly 
ember coral
Anyone killed zul mythic here?
daring imp
how would dd contribute nicely overall if you barely mutilate overall? @_@"
timid cloud
Tbh, closest you might get? Gonk Outrunner Shoulders 370 from the Zandalari cache.
daring imp
aren't we all :X
peak saffron
@river quarry use it at the best moment....
timid cloud
My sims are telling me to use my Champions, Archive, & 385 Blood Rite over SS
It's the most painful thing of all time.
cyan stump
timid cloud
Yeah, mine is probs because I only have 340 SS's on all of those slots.
long adder
for mythic+ 1x double dose is better than archive of titans right?
tranquil pivot
well, i prefer 1x archive over DD, cause i have the stacks always up
twin hatch
feelsbadman no 1 good trait for me :V
proud tusk
if i ever get a 385 SS helm from weekly cache, the next day Blizzard will nerf/remove SS from the game
tranquil pivot
if you have problems to hold the stacks up, cause the tank is too slow or something like that, take 1x DD over Archive for M+.
ebon prism
for raids, what are the ideal traits?
tranquil pivot
1x Archive, 1x Laser, 1x DD ?
and beside of that, you dont need 3x SS for M+.
Look at Raider.io, top Rogues playing nowadays only with 1x SS.
cunning needle
i think it also depends on your composition/key level etc
drifting elbow
why would u take laser into ideal set?
cunning needle
eg if the mobs die in 20 seconds then 3x ss is probably better
echo void
hey guys, What should i roll in my current piece, Gutripper, Elemental Whirl or Unstable Flames for azerite trait?
drifting elbow
sim
pearl meteor
all of them 😃
stable oxide
Does Master assassin sim higher for you?
marsh bloom
yes
jaunty arrow
Without ss is muster assassin better
drifting elbow
SS is not that impactful on MA value i think 🤔
u could sim and see difference on talent with and without
wind berry
this week for Temple of Seth , CT or PB ?
drifting elbow
usually PB seems to be used on that place mainly but due to teeming CT should be as good 🤔
wind berry
but tos... is there any big pulls this week?
i'am actually more worried about the bosses
jaunty arrow
Templ have ez bosses
Frst is ez, second is just keksnek, 3 is just soak and last is fkin time waste 😂
wind berry
true
jaunty arrow
But shrine is another bullshit
Still worst boss for me is final in freehold x m HP dummy
high wadi
hey everyone, so i changed my opener and how to use my vanish and stuff and simmed myself and spent some time at the dummy
got some questions about normal rotation
frosty pebble
If I'm running no SS traits, is it still worth it to run Subterfuge for m+? I've been running MA for raid bosses and ST in general, but I feel like I lack a lot of dps on m+ trash... Maybe I'm doing something wrong on the rotation?
high wadi
is there any need of pooling energy and if so, where do i need to pool
marsh bloom
Pool for TB
marsh bloom
idk then i'm just a shitty rogue
high wadi
😄
i sometimes feel like i should pool before using envenom to hit the following envenoms in the eleborate planning and envenom "buff"
frosty pebble
I usually pool when I am about to get TB off CD to fit as many envenoms as I can during TB
high wadi
and also, sometimes i refresh rupture and garrote rather early to not overcap or have a large window for mut and envenom...dont know if that is right
hot flume
From what I've read here you are doing right @high wadi
And you should maintain EP and env buff uptime as high as possible @frosty pebble
Pool energy before TB to pull out 2 or 3 Env during TB window
frosty pebble
That's what I do 😄
high wadi
but to maintain EP and use it for my next envenom i also have to pool right?
lime briar
im assuming prioritize pooling energy before TB isntead of maintaining EP and env buff right
frosty pebble
I'd say so, yes... You can't maintain EP if you're pooling energy, no?
high wadi
yeah but with not pooling energy i cant hit the next envenom in that EP window
lime briar
so youd almost always wanna pool energy before doing a finisher so you can keep doing skills with EP up right
hot flume
This is the best log on Fetid, the highest uptime boss for melee let's say. (That's not completely true, but you got the point)
high wadi
pool and spam, then pool and spam again? or be chill with finishers and hit them the second before EP runs off?
hot flume
Env and EP uptime is not 100 %
You can't have the buff on you all the time, so yeah pooling before TB is more important than maintaining EP UP
high wadi
i do not use tb
high wadi
aah okay
hot flume
Envenom during exsang doesn't matter as much than TB, but you still need to have energy to keep EP up and buff your exsang dmg
lime briar
say TB is on CD, i would pool before using a finisher to use as many skills as possible during EP right
so really you never wanna spam finishers unless you have EP up and your energy is pooled?
dark crag
Ep should have the same duration as envenom
high wadi
but dont spam them too hard? use the next finisher just before EP runs off?
hot flume
Yes, without overcapping energy of course
hot flume
You are welcome
The idea is simple
When TB is on CD, use finisher to maintain dots up, EP up and do not overcap energy
When TB is off CD or about to come back, pool energy, use TB and then spam 4-5 combo Envenom
frank furnace
Holy shit boys the SS bug is fixed?! I’m so late to this but finally
hot flume
Ideally refresh your rupture before entering TB window
lime briar
if im at 0 cp and TB is about to come off CD, is it better to pool energy then use TB or build CP and then TB > envenom to make max use of TB duration?
frosty pebble
Is it fixed?
hot flume
@lime briar build your combo points. If you are at 3 or 4, stop mutilate, pool energy, TB -> Envenom and enter TB window
frosty pebble
Woah nice!
hot flume
If you get 5 combo points, pool energy, Envenom -> TB and enter TB window
lime briar
i see so its okay to hold off on using TB to pool energy at 3-4 CP
hot flume
Yes
lime briar
as long as its not longer than a few seconds
hot flume
Try to always be a step ahead with refreshing rupture when TB is soon to come off CD
nimble tartan
ima be real sometimes when im at 5cp and tb botu to come up il just tb at 5cp
and then pump envenoms
frosty pebble
I agree... Last night I swapped from exs to TB and it's just a matter of picking it up. The playstyle is extremely similar to legion's sin rogue
lime briar
i see i'll keep practicing rotations then
frosty pebble
That's a dps loss, might as well just pool energy > envenom > tb
lime briar
TB sims like 0.3% higher than exsang for me so idk if its worth it
my haste is abnormally low
hot flume
@nimble tartan saw some people here saying they did the same as u do, is it really a dps gain ?
frosty pebble
How many SS traits you have?
hot flume
Coz it feels like combo points waste
frosty pebble
Yeah I agree Kixal
nimble tartan
its just how it plays out sometimes and i think for me i dont mind doing it
frosty pebble
I feel like I'm losing a lot of dps by wasting those CPs
nimble tartan
like sometimes im at 5cp and i can env into tb
but id rather just tb at 5cp and then get more envs in then i would haave
doesnt happen too often
apl does it as well https://i.imgur.com/KjYjwdn.png
twin hatch
!WA
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hot flume
Then APL must be right
nimble tartan
it makes sense cause that little cp loss is gained from getting 1 more env in the tb
frosty pebble
Guess that makes sense, but at the same time how many times it happens throughout the fight?
nimble tartan
not many
frosty pebble
Figured... You have to be super lucky on your crits
hot flume
It will depend on your crit rate and your luck
edgy latch
exsang is too good for myth
frosty pebble
Practice on the dummy, you'll pick up faster than you think
edgy latch
because it lines up perfectly with adds
hot flume
But doesn't happen much
nimble tartan
yeah id do it if adds were an issue but the ease of tb playstyle works for me and our adds are dying super proper so far
nimble tartan
the xalaiz?
edgy latch
y
nimble tartan
we got cd setups for it
for classes with longer cds
im using a sharpened too it pumps actually
frosty pebble
Is anyone running MA for m+?
jaunty crystal
The hardest thing about switching between exsang and tb is not accidentally doing the wrong opener 😛
frosty pebble
I share the pain
jaunty crystal
Happens when I’m raiding for 3 hours then go run a m+ and I’m like whoops on the first boss
unreal sundial
has anyone tested exsang SS vs TB with battlefield Prec ?
Battlefield did 400k dmg for me on Ghuun
mad damooosh
high nova
Scent of blood vs Blightborne infusion for M+?
strange python
is there any meelee that can come close to a rogue in m+/raids?
verbal mantle
jagged kindle
Finally got a Galecaller's Boon to drop for me. I've been playing TB the entire time and just switching to Exsang. Saw opener and rotation on Ravenholdt for Exsang but how does GCB trinket usage fall into this? When do I pop it? Do I hafta hold GCB for 3rd Exsang? Or should I just be popping the trinket and exsang on cooldown after the first time I line it up?
pearl meteor
w/ ven on pull, on cd, w/ ven/van/exsang @ 2:25
exsang on cd
hold ven/van for 4th exsang
lone hamlet
Guys should I sometimes use 2-3 cp finishers in order to maintain EP buff ?
lone hamlet
Or it’s better to drop it and go for 4-5 envenoms