dead rn
#assassination
marsh bloom
safe matrix
Regardless that's the channel transmog posts go in
queen tiger
In the sims, the fight style is Patchwerk for 3 adds, or should i pick Cleave Add?
signal summit
got exact same shoulders
valid moss
👋🏿 🐵 highfive
drifting elbow
patchwerk
valid moss
outsimming Zulul mythic shoulders by 19 dps
drifting elbow
there is no point to choose other modes since it doesnt reflect real situations anyway
chest gave be galecallers boon 
valid moss
Ion blessed my friend
storm brook
How obligatory is shrouded suffocation? Just got a chest piece in weekly chest, but it replaces my only piece that has ss :/
storm brook
damn
drifting elbow
feelsbadman
storm brook
I basically only do m+
calm tulip
When do you use Gale callers boon in a 3 shrouded opener ?
drifting elbow
with vendetta
crisp hollow
macro that shit
shrewd mirage
what are the best traits for M+ on my gear?
keen spruce
@valid moss I got the same ones 
quaint flare
SS
coral falcon
Same situation kinda as lime. I got a 385 sharpened blades helm which is way better for ST (over 340 SS) however i mostly do M+. what's the best way to sim it for that?
I do have another SS bit of gear btw
brisk forum
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
twin hatch
yo if i play tb build before use that do i have to wait some pool energry before spending cp on envenom to have also planning buff + tb for a while up or nvm just spam when is avaiable
marsh bloom
You wanna get 2+ envenoms in the TB window which is 9 seconds @twin hatch
twin hatch
@marsh bloom so u
marsh bloom
?
twin hatch
@marsh bloom miss click. so i reach 4+ cp and wait some pool energy to be sure to use 2 enve with tb + planning?
solid nova
Pool before TB usage
Push envenoms during
That's all there is to it
Make sure you can refresh dots in pandemic before if you need to
twin hatch
ok perfect becouse normaly i do 2 enve with tb but the second enve doesnt have the planning buff
ty a lot
faint harness
This might be a dumb question, but are you supposed to hold envenoms to not override elaborate planning buff
and instead keep it rolling
or is it fine to just spam envenoms
daring imp
what do you mean "to not override"
valid moss
I try not to overlap, unless im in TB window/got too much energy
fringe jolt
if you dont cap on energy holding is better for more uptime on EP buff
proper pendant
On mythic vectis, how many cp do you guys tend to sink into the add to get rupture rolling? I feel like a full 4-5 is too much
Havin trouble with the rhythm of the fight, like should I put a subterfuge shrouded suffocation garrote into the first add or just save all major cd's for vectis
dark token
What are your traits
proper pendant
2 shrouded suffocation and 1 laser matrix
dark token
Ok definitely vanish garrote add, garrote boss, garrote boss
faint harness
Ongbak i mean using an envenom when its +2 seconds left on EP
proper pendant
ok cool tyvm
dark token
You open up on boss where he spawns
In stealth
Sprint over to middle with him
Just do normal opener except rupture the add when it pops up instead of evenoming boss
The when boss has like 3sec on garrote you wanna do the vanish triple garrote
From then on it's just making sure you use exsang perfectly on CD and having dots ticking on both
And doing the same vanish combo at the start of every p1 with first add
faint harness
Scumbagging the add i see
proper pendant
should I blow exs on the boss or the add?
faint harness
not switching to add
faint harness
sounds like you're just dotting it up
faint harness
i would scumbag the add tho
dark token
I just maintain dots on boss too
faint harness
dot the add and tunnel boss
dark token
That's prob why youre not on mythic
dark token
That's a good way to be benched
valid moss
😂
faint harness
Was in on the first 6 at least
dark token
Be glad you are either in a casual guild that doesn't care or the RL doesn't pay attention to logs
faint harness
If they can handle the add without you, i dont swap
I'm an officer in the guild, thats prob why
proper pendant
We've killed Vectis, I just need to improve on my numbers for some of what we have down so far
fallen sandal
frozen do you envenom add
dark token
Setting a good example
fallen sandal
or you just let your dots tick ?
faint harness
everyone knows all assassination rogues are scumbags, just giving them the fantasy
dark token
If the add is up all my single target abilities go into the add
I just maintain dots on the boss too
rich wren
It's not necessary in every group to have everyone hit the add lol
faint harness
Nah, we have enough dps on the add
my dmg is actually better off being on the boss
dark token
It is necessary if you wanna kill the fight clean even when everyone is overgeared lol
And clearly you can still get rank 1 focusing add
See: me
faint harness
4Head
dark token
So idk what you are trying to prove by saying scumbag add it just shows you're setting a bad example as officer when it's unnecessary
rich wren
Different comps require different allocations of damage 🤷
faint harness
Haha what
faint harness
Man i was hard-dicking the add for 2 resets, but from now on we have enough dmg on it
rich wren
I've never had to
dark token
If everyone focuses add it kills the add faster and the boss dies faster cause everyone swaps back from add faster, and it's cleaner less risky kills lol
dark token
Congrats on being a scumbag with officers not caring I guess
faint harness
x) im glad ur so offended
pulsar tusk
yea congrats dude
fallen sandal
what talent did you run on zul HM ?
dark token
I don't have to kill add in my guild =/= is optimal
pulsar tusk
what your kids gonna think
rich wren
Lol
dark token
If you guys top my dmg maybe you can tell me focus add is bad 😆
dark token
@fallen sandal poison bomb
valid moss
think im gonna play Assa for fetid reclear 🤔 cba with sub
fallen sandal
lmao
hardy anchor
Just replaced my 340 SS shoulders with some 385s with Scent of Blood
I'mma miss SS and Exsang 💔
pulsar juniper
Hello, I have a 380 galecallers boon and a 370 doom's wake, how should I use them? :<
valid moss
use galecaller + proc trinket
valid moss
Dice?
dark token
<- can confirm
dark token
Actually I'd prefer boosted dice tbh
pulsar juniper
Damn it, i hate fathoms so much
pearl meteor
same but ye easier to get boosted fetid
pearl meteor
shit trinket but if u have a boosted one then itll b better than alot
dark token
"boosted"
valid moss
I got 390 socketed fetid trinket and it's barely beating 370 Dice
pearl meteor
y i k e s
dark token
Eh mine wins by a fair amount
valid moss
im still using Dice however, cba xd
dark token
Might be different if you play tb or ma
alpine grotto
Raid trinkets are trash
pearl meteor
fathoms clap
dark token
Ilvl mostly makes them win
Fathoms is like a 385ish other trinket
Unless you're outlaw then it's ilvl 400 lol
valid moss
actually simming 100 dps over Dice now, think I should use it perhaps https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tx5aQTcebQdi3YxauykJ2j
dark token
Now if only I could play sin on fetid my rank run would be complete
valid moss
it sims better than Subterfuge but I don't like it xd
valid moss
50% crit instead of 100% PepeHands
dark token
TBH if I had 2x double dose and 2x SS I'd use the SS
It's too good on every fight not named mother or fetid
pearl meteor
same but hes using DD no reason to have subt
hardy anchor
Is there a certain trait combo that makes MA better?
dark token
Multivanish = insta rank 1 every boss
hardy anchor
Ahh, that makes sense
valid moss
unluck no SS at all here PepeHands
pearl meteor
tf ghosu ur 383 lol
dark token
When blizzard gives you no dd or SS I would just reroll to different spec/class
pearl meteor
boosted ape
valid moss
I pray to Ion every week
dark token
Don't make me link u my 50 target patchwerk 20s sim
dark token
2 target boss fight sim is actually very interesting
hardy anchor
It's just for like static 3 target to compare the tons of random items I've got vs pure ST
dark token
Opener on 2 targets is not what I thought it would be
dark token
Almost doubled my dmg on the 2nd boss of shrine
pearl meteor
msg me it
dark token
Well not double but like 15k to 25k
short arch
What's your opener? :p
pulsar coral
Jesus christ RNGesus was with me today. Jumped up to 381 equipped
76th most geared rogue in the west 😮
so inefficient tho -_-
in terms of stats, i was so much more min-maxed in Legion, all this ilvl ruins my bracket parses
i wish i could farm azerite to perfect myself
crisp hollow
do people check bracket parses?
pulsar coral
I do!
crisp hollow
you might be the first person i've seen mention them hahah, but hey its another level of max/min so more power to you
pulsar coral
bracket parses are fun because you can tell how min-maxed you are for an ilvl
yeah exactly
in Legion I would always try to get 99/100 in brackets
inner pecan
ilvl brackets are a meme lol
pulsar coral
but this Azerite nonsense ruins my life
pearl meteor
🤔
dark token
Why not go for 100 4head
pulsar coral
give me all the poison bombs
dark token
I'm happy if I'm top10 on the boss, rank 1 is a lot of rng tbh
civic hinge
Quick question, does Rezans Fury scale with our Bleeding Mastery? Thanks!
pearl meteor
pb does nothing now
pulsar coral
oh shi
runic terrace
Hey guys! Since it's not described in the guide and I just lost my SS-Trait: Do I vanish-rupture or still vanish-garrote without shrouded suffocation?
dark token
You can be pretty consistent with top 10 if you're geared and good
pulsar coral
yo actually true, i got this Waycrest-only azerite trait that gives you crit
and it went off during my Vendetta today
holllly shit
30k single target opener
crisp hollow
this tier is pretty feelsbad, i wont break higher than purple on Zek with how much aoe our comp has and it seems like my raid refuses to damage the adds when i tunnel Vectis but heavily overkills them when i don't
pearl meteor
doesnt matter if u overkill them its still worth switching
i usually have 10s+ on rupture and gar when they die lol
civic hinge
Does Rezans Fury scale with our Bleeding Mastery?
crisp hollow
i always garrote/rupture them but i don't look good on add damage done if i'm not TB'ing them and that feels like shit
inner pecan
worry more about killing the boss and less about how you look
play to the strength of your spec
pearl meteor
just dot and leave it if they die anyways
inner pecan
if your raid leaders don't understand the strengths of your spec explain to them
if they still don't understand they are bad
pearl meteor
killing add faster = killing boss faster 🤔
crisp hollow
other rogue unfortunately hardswaps and does close to 2min to adds by the end of the fight
"why aren't you doing what he's doing?"
well he has 2 385 SS pieces to begin with
pearl meteor
why wld they ask if adds arnt a problem?
inner pecan
if adds aren't dying you need to swap more plain and simple
if they are dying then they shouldn't even ask
crisp hollow
tbh idk lol, i don't think adds have been the problem since early prog on that boss
pearl meteor
do they get 2 casts off?
crisp hollow
no
crisp hollow
then again this is the leadership that won't let me be one of the last to cross on mother for some reason
thats not even padding i just dont contribute anything to the add spawns
too much to ask still
crisp hollow
real catch22 lol cuz i don't have parses worth a shit to app anywhere else that wouldn't be a direct downgrade (6/8M atm)
pearl meteor
parses are everything 
pearl meteor
if your not doing well on vectis thats on you
zek you can get 90 without touching adds other than caster
crisp hollow
zek isn't a comp issue i think, just me only killing it once
on my first time seeing the boss
missed prog cuz midterm but i'll look at non-CT parses
inner pecan
i got 96 on Vek last week with PB and full focus on boss/adds
crisp hollow
might just be sat the whole time cuz i didn't put the crit/versa belt as bis
in favor of people's upgrades
crisp hollow
we have a loot spreadsheet
pearl meteor
yes
crisp hollow
and if people need stuff from zek
and i don't
with our roster of 27 possible raiders
pearl meteor
yes well eventually ppl will get what they need anyways
🤷
guilds that are better than your current 6/8 will look @ more than just parses as well
crisp hollow
what else would they be looking for? all i remember from the app process was being aff in late ToS
which handled recruitment itself
low-mid 90's parses and i got more swipes right than an ig model
edgy latch
pretty much every RL checks dmg done on adds
between pulls
if someone's shit
theyre out
edgy latch
dmg taken on adds and dmg taken by spells
pearl meteor
some only care about dmg
edgy latch
gets checked constantly
crisp hollow
how do they check that in an app lol, getting to the trial is a different scenario
pearl meteor
logs?
edgy latch
you can check those on details
more in depth in logs after raid
if i do something differently, ex. tunnel vectis and skip first add because of vendetta
i have to tell the rl
sleek iron
Do you Tb on cp?
pearl meteor
doesnt matter if it gets overkilled still worth it
sleek iron
On 4cp
crisp hollow
yes
sleek iron
@crisp hollow was that an answer to me? 😃
pearl meteor
im not gonna explain how adding dots and having passive dmg is better as long as your maintaining on boss
sleek iron
Damn I got 99 parse on taloc mythic without doing Tb on 4 cp lol
pearl meteor
literally takes 1s to dot the add lol
crisp hollow
yeah @sleek iron you're fine to TB at 4, more importantly is having the energy to get 2 envenoms off within EP buff duration
edgy latch
i told you that i'm dotting the add
sleek iron
Ok ! Thanks
edgy latch
but tunneling boss
pearl meteor
and i didnt tell u to switch to add
edgy latch
i am vanishing for first add and putting rup up
crisp hollow
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JqKFbLg4nHW6C9Aj#fight=12&type=summary&source=20 would this be an example log of not relying on small adds to parse?
edgy latch
that depends on the raid setup
me going ct for zek would just be padding
since we have a lot of aoe burst in our raid
runic terrace
Hey guys! Since it's not described in the guide and I just lost my SS-Trait: Do I vanish-rupture or still vanish-garrote without shrouded suffocation?
crisp hollow
yeah im competing with 2 boomkins, an arms warr, outlaw rogue and 2 ele shams
but this being farm i just want high numbers to beat my meat to
edgy latch
go pad with ct then
crisp hollow
spam it or just keep the dot up?
edgy latch
i'd keep rup on zek and void
and spam ct
i believe (dont quote me on this) that ct spam is a dps increase on 6+ targets
edgy latch
sigh
balmy perch
i replaced my 340 ss houlders today for 370 dd
pearl meteor
azerite was yesterday champs ap was today
crisp hollow
700 azerite token for me today
nocturne jetty
Alliance eu get azerite gear today
pearl meteor
gotcha
crisp hollow
385 DD head and chest feel great on ST fights, but I need SS shoulders+fetid chest for M+ and that makes my soul bleed a little
nocturne jetty
Was replying to Ronge, should have been clearer
Sorry
pearl meteor
my b didnt see his q
balmy perch
I got fetid chest today, was pretty hyped
edgy latch
i still havent looted any azerite from raids yet...
crisp hollow
i have the H one but 370 is so plebeian these days
pearl meteor
all my azerite is from raid, havent gotten any from pvp cache or m+ cache
crisp hollow
i've had great emissary luck but i was rocking 340 shoulders despite killing zul twice every week since uldir release until last week
pearl meteor
tho i kinda get funneled in my guild atm :p lol
balmy perch
is subterfuge even worth it if you primarily go dd?
balmy perch
thats what i am. 2DD+Archive
crisp hollow
it was like 230 difference last i checked
pearl meteor
thats a big diff wut
crisp hollow
but definitely sim talentcompare on raidbots
pearl meteor
lol
balmy perch
what are youjr thoughts on zul? DD or SS?
crisp hollow
is it? i'm so desensitized to numbers after legion
pearl meteor
sub
crisp hollow
Subtlety
pearl meteor
mythic zul or heroic
balmy perch
heroic
crisp hollow
on H you're fine to go SS
pearl meteor
SS
crisp hollow
yup
runic terrace
Guys, without any SS-trait: Van-Rup or still Van-Garr?
crisp hollow
the guide on ravenholdt has different openers for TB/exsang with and without SS i'm pretty sure
runic terrace
I mean during the fight
pearl meteor
or LM i suppose
dark shoal
Van garrot with subterfuge
runic terrace
k, thanks vala!
kindred cedar
I got the "doom's wake trinket yesterday, when in my opener is a good idea tro use it ?
dark shoal
Joockeee time it with Vendetta i guess
potent raft
has anyone tried Blindside for Mythic Taloc? Is it better than Elaborate Planning?
(if no DD)
kindred cedar
So after or before vendetta or ?
balmy perch
i have tried blindside and it is a letdown imo
pearl meteor
yikes blindside
dark shoal
Doesn't really matter if you press them both at the same time
potent raft
@balmy perch ty
crisp hollow
i want nothing more than to have blindside be meta
balmy perch
yep
crisp hollow
but then i remember i lose my beloved DD pieces
kindred cedar
so i should do garr -> mut -> rupture -> vend + trinket -> mut -> toxic blades?
crisp hollow
so fuck that talent
dark shoal
@kindred cedar Depends on your build/azerite
kindred cedar
No SS traits
kindred cedar
and going with subterfuge & Toxicblades as talents
balmy perch
they wont because its a talent
dark shoal
@kindred cedar garr -> mut -> rupture -> vend + trinket -> TB-> mut > enve etc
crisp hollow
they are promising the moon and the stars in 8.1 but i'm pretty optimistic given how 7.0 was also really shit but reddit got it in their heads that BfA is a terrible xpac
kindred cedar
@dark shoal yeah cool, thanks!
crisp hollow
i don't like how lame current azerite traits are, and artifacts should've been baked in
those are really legitimate criticisms i'll agree with (as well as how high ilvl azerite is a lottery)
everything else imo is super overblown
frosty pebble
If I'm not running any SS trait should I run Exs and Subterfuge?
crisp hollow
no SS= no exsang
like 9 times out of 10
hell 1 SS rarely means run exsang, i only see 2 SS users getting it to beat TB
frosty pebble
Hmm didn't know that even with 1 you should rarely run it
uneven summit
Anybody know exactly what haste is good for? I know energy regen, but is that all? for us
jaunty arrow
Bleeds
crisp hollow
dots tick faster
dark shoal
Energy regen + energy regen from rupture ticks
uneven summit
anything on global cds?
jaunty arrow
Nope
crisp hollow
you get more ticks during the duration of the dot* to word that better
uneven summit
aight ❤
dull compass
Dont know much about sin, I see plenty of ranked logs for each of the bosses that run 1x ss exang gcb
Tho
crisp hollow
yeah it's worth simming yourself if you have 1
rarely might've been an overstatement on my end
anecdotally* i see a lot of TB with 1 SS
myself and other rogues i run with
and logs
strange python
When you bonus roll a 380 leech GCB :)
jaunty arrow
I have 1ss 2archives now but if i loot same or better azerite with dd rip ss
dark shoal
Take off one archive
jaunty arrow
Nah coz i sim more with 2 than 1 +1 Matrix
dark shoal
Ofc, your uldir traits +secondary stats are count just for one
lone hamlet
No reason to go 2xarchive?
dark shoal
You need to calculate Archive (uldir)stack + archive no (uldir)stack
Archive/matrix are strong because of the secondary buff stat
jaunty arrow
U got only 1 buff
dark shoal
But does this agi give more dps than a DD or Dagger in the back?
jaunty arrow
Well i do not have 380 with dd
jaunty arrow
Point is the ilvl
jaunty arrow
I can use like -40 ilvl dd trait but why should i do that
dark shoal
That's the biggest problem of azerite
jaunty arrow
Thats the point but yes u do not need 2 arch if u have same ilvl on az armor
Problem is that u have rare chance to got 380+ az armor with dd so u cant replace 
dark shoal
Bring back fix loots blibli please.
long adder
Is the construct overcharger trinket supposed to be this bad?
jaunty arrow
Also u are just forced to use uldir traits
long adder
it seems crazy bad atm
jaunty arrow
Dunno i use dice and that shit from shrine 😒
long adder
ur stacked
i got a 370 overcharger with socket but it sims worse than my 355 pvp trinket
jaunty arrow
Yep thats normal 😂
jaunty arrow
Uldir trinkets just sux
dark shoal
Glad i got arathi trinket since first time i did it
jaunty arrow
Fuck u
jaunty arrow
Thats a curse
long adder
do u think they will buff uldir trinkets or
jaunty arrow
My g bro have only smth versa from chest 😂
long adder
runnign storm is such a drag
long adder
should i also trust sims for talents? exsang sim worse than tb for me
valid moss
No Shrouded Suffocation = TB
1+ SSuffocation = Exsang
pine crag
Really, 1 SS we should go Exsang? And use it on CD/with Buffed garrote preferentially?
Exsang buffs only bleeds on the target, not on multi right?
frosty pebble
The rotation using MA instead of Subterfuge should be the normal rotation with TB? My sims say using MA and TB outputs higher dps, but I'm confused about the rotation
patent quartz
ye same tb/ma opener idk
frosty pebble
Cheers
severe tree
charred lantern
guys should i go Exs-CT for 9 Waycrest or TB-PB since its tyrannical
sudden sigil
What traits do you guys run for m+? Is 3x SS still the best or?
Doesnt TB sim higher then EXS?
west gate
Hix got the same
visual token
Depends on gear
slate dust
such a pos
sudden sigil
At higher levels, TB sims hiugher aye?
west gate
And its suck for pvp now aswell because it does not stack
sudden estuary
SS still the best trait?
tall spruce
Is assa shafted in pvp now after nerf or still good ?
unreal sundial
@tall spruce B tier
high nova
now after nerf? Did they nerf assa?
unreal sundial
@@dark shoal which is pretty much 2.3k + lol
uneven summit
Assa in pvp is deffo good
unreal sundial
Assa is B tier in 3s
tall spruce
But system shock is dead right
uneven summit
yup!
sudden sigil
Worth stacking ss traits or no ?
uneven summit
why is system shock dead 😛
unreal sundial
@tall spruce deadly, bomb and the movement poison in 3s
tropic hull
garrote/heed head 385 
unreal sundial
if u are playing druid rogue/ rogue priest 2s u can maybe take system shock over bomb
icy oar
system shock deals ~7% dmg, 30% nerf isn't too much
unreal sundial
i sometimes take it when its vs teams u can rot
valid moss
whats A tier and S tier then?
velvet kernel
Is there a guide anywhere on how to play with MA?
uneven summit
i play creeping venom; system shock; deadly brew, and smoke bomb instead of deadly brew on focus DPS combos - works wonders
unreal sundial
@valid moss Fury, Enchance, Moonkin, SP, Survival (maybe RogueMP)
Everything else is shit
specifically talking 3s, rogue and fury is OP in 2s
dark shoal
Enhance is really strong in 2s too
unreal sundial
or rather A tier*
uhm it dependa
if enhance goes on your healer, then maybe they have a win condition
dark shoal
Well maybe not after healing surge nerf
unreal sundial
but if they go on you as a rogue, only way you can lose is if you take your daggers off
charred oar
What Traits are people running in pvp
unreal sundial
being a bit obnoxious there, but i find enhance really straight forward as sin
frosty pebble
Better sim yourself
charred oar
i dont see how simming is applicable for pvp
unreal sundial
SS, X, laser matrix
charred oar
you cant just sim a completely isolated / static scenario that assumes 100% uptime and draw conclusions from it for pvp
that makes no sense whatsoever
same reason people still run SS in mythic+ eventhough sims say different
unreal sundial
laser matrix because its a different spell school, doesnt break CC and has rando heals
SS for opener/kill potential on vanish garrote obv and X as whatever, mutilate trait is good
dense pecan
I thought the stats one would be better over laser?
charred oar
yeah I was running archive over laser aswell
dark shoal
In pvp, surely
unreal sundial
RA is good yeah, I use it
charred oar
RA stands for?
charred oar
ah yes
unreal sundial
i forget they fixed RA to stack in combat correctly now
dark shoal
(nerf pvp assa rogues just because pika and whazz are gods but let dh untouched l e l)
dense pecan
Yeah only the archive stats thing works.
charred oar
ULDIR* lmao
slender spade
So how good is Shrouded Suffocation, or rather, how required is it? - I just got 385 azerite with Meticulous shcheming, but that means i have to get rid of my only Uldir trait- or Shrouded Suffocation. What does one do?
unreal sundial
@dark shoal and Fury atm, they are peak mongo performance
charred oar
@slender spade pvp or pve
slender spade
@charred oar pve
dark shoal
Yeah @unreal sundial but remember. If it's not heroclass, and not at arena champiionship, Blizz doesn't see it
dense pecan
You guys ever had laser matrix pull extra mobs in dungeons? Just wondering since a tank was complaining on me pulling things
dark shoal
:V
unreal sundial
@dense pecan never happened to me
dense pecan
@unreal sundial ah OK. Must be the tank spitting nonsense.
unreal sundial
i have seen the animation cast on mons we havent agrod, but no reprocussion
as in, no agro is pulled, no damage taken by them
strange echo
@dense pecan has happened to me several times if the mobs are in close proximity like Waycrest it happens alot
tall spruce
Was it tol dagor? Smurfy?
unreal sundial
@dark shoal i have quit 2s because monk fury warrior is literally the worst
slender spade
@charred oar Alright, but you'd still want SS for m+? - because i'd have to keep respeccing my chest for it then.
warm lake
Laser matrix will bounce to unpulled mobs, but it does not cause threat
dense pecan
I had this issue in underrot in the small tunnels @tall spruce and also the mobs on zul platform
strange python
Can confirm zul platform is horrible with LM
dense pecan
@slender spade i like having one ss for m+ for the extra cp in between mobs
weary hare
Is it worth playing sin on vectis, finding add damage low, would it be worth playing sub or just tunnel boss and dot the add up
slender spade
@dense pecan Aye exactly. It's quite insane for m+. I can run with it for m+ and just not use my 385's for raids i suppose.
unreal sundial
@weary hare dot add, be on top of gestagion timers so you dont lose Garrote uptime on boss (reapply at 10 seconds plus)
often, if you can time it you can open on add with a 5 rupture, garrote, poison application then back to the boss
glacial steppe
anyone here playing scent in m+? got a 385 piece but im not sure if its worth since its kinda annoying paired with CT
weary hare
Nice one ty
unreal sundial
never used CT, hate it
tepid ridge
I like it but... dunno choosing between more rupture or CT feels weird and poison bomb is really decent
the poison build with TB coming back aswell
unreal sundial
@weary hare if you can keep on top of add timers, double dotting and dps focusing boss with envs will put you in a good position, all depends on raid DPS
tepid ridge
I really can't figure out
unreal sundial
i will only ever use exsang for fetid progression, other than that, id play poison spec
weary hare
Yeah, normally I've been focusing the add when I've been running exsang which is huge damage but recently started using tb since it's simming significantly higher
tepid ridge
never exsanged an add even in progression
you're not supposed to be here for adds damages
bleak storm
In m+ wouldn't running ss be better?
unreal sundial
@tepid ridge ran 3 melee fetid so would exsang add because bants
unreal sundial
oh, then absolutely not
weary hare
Was only running it because I had a 380 GC but replaced it
unreal sundial
you could perhaps say, CT on vectis for number padding
tepid ridge
oh no CT discution was for M+
quartz rune
tepid ridge
no x)
frosty pebble
Running MA talent, should I vanish and proceed with regular opener or is there a specific rotation when I cast Vanish? Anyone knows?
tepid ridge
vanish with 5 cp (pref just after TB) then env / mut etc
kinda like legion gameplay
(anthorus)
frosty pebble
Ahh right, thanks, makes sense
slender spade
So just to make sure i got this right.
My 370 SS chest has to be swapped for Archive to keep RA, which means i'm swapping SS on chest for Meticulous Scheming on Shoulders (to keep RA) - Would that be worth it or does the 15 ilvl not compensate for the worse trait?
I'm mainly talking Uldir, but also preferably not to have to swap traits for each raid.
bleak storm
How would you sim to test aoe damage?
tepid ridge
wich type of aoe
quasi ledge
4-6 bosses, Patchwerk and 30-60 seconds
tepid ridge
you can sim pack this way yeah
flat oar
patchwork 6 target no buffs 40s is what i sim this week
bleak storm
but just in general when vs more than 1 target
high siren
should I really play with SB now? 😦
bleak storm
@quasi ledge ty
tepid ridge
and mix with some boss ST single 3 mins
or less
it depends alot of so many things, the lvl of key, pack duration, what need your group aswell
it's really hard to sim imo 😦
@high siren feelsbad for you man 😦
high siren
yeah well, I simply won't
quartz fiber
question, is there a rough threshold when exsang will become better than tb?
south drum
Hello so i just got a piece of Azarite gear with the sharpened blades tarit and was wondering if anyone have a got wa to track the stacks
south drum
Neither have I and yeah was hoping someone had a good one
dark shoal
5 times vectis hm + bonus roll : 0 loot :v
velvet kernel
How do you play with MA is there a guide?
drifting elbow
u do MA same style as u do TB rotation
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
drifting elbow
meaning, TB-vanish-envenom 4+ -mut to 4cp-envenom
south drum
@bleak storm thanks man will have a look at it
tidal willow
what talents u boys running for high keys this week?
manic quartz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uEH9nhhGsJwKSWyiYeFbQo fathoms really better than GCB?
carmine merlin
@tidal willow depends on the Dungeon
vocal wave
Right, so I got some questions. I have 2x SS and 1 Archive atm.
Exsang seems to sim ahead 0.2% dps ahead of TB but it genuinely feels that TB is much harder to mess up. The opener is easy with Exsang, but I'm wondering how to really really use it optimally outside of the opener.
Also, for HC farm on my Rogue, I'm not gonna go back and respecc azerite traits for Zek and Zul for Outlaw. So I'm thinking of using Sin for those. If I'm going to use Sin, is CT worth usingin HC Zekvoz and Zul? Or is Poison Bomb just the better choice even on those fights?
inner pecan
@manic quartz You have a 385 Plumage which undermines GCB a lot.
manic quartz
yes, i just got it
sour trout
anyone have an issue using two on use trinkets?
wehn i use my doomwake it puts my galecaller on 15s cooldown?
sour trout
oh -_-
quick ice
used to be 30 didn't it?
sour trout
so is it not even worth running 2 on use?
manic quartz
yeah im aware of the shared cd was just wondering about it since GCB was ranked pretty good for exang
sour trout
well its galecaller and doomwake
kinda hard to choose between the two
they both sim very high
inner pecan
sim your avaliable trinkets
manic quartz
actually just tested my GCB gets 20cd CD when i use plumage 😄
manic quartz
20sec CD*
wise star
2on use trinket sim also has flaws, gcb f.e is only used once per 2min although you can use it every 1min without delaying anything
sour trout
damn man, why do i sim so shit...
azure palm
i just got a 370 headpiece which gives me a total of 2 lazer matrix azerite pieces, but it breaks my 2 piece SS would lazer matrix x2 be the better option?
sour trout
i thought getting a 370 galecaller would help me sim higher and i still sim shit
bright shale
What you sim at
sour trout
16.1k
bright shale
That's not horrible
bright shale
Link your profile I'll take a look
sour trout
i mean im fairly geared but i sim less then the outlaw rogue on my raid team and assa rogue who i feel is less geared then me
and dont even get me started on the locks
ornate mantle
hey guys what would be the last talent for this myth+ week on EU?
posion bomb right?
bright shale
depends on dungeon
jaunty arrow
U dont need pb in dungeons like shrine, motherload atc
bright shale
I think you could use a new Hands/wrist/back with better itemization but tbh. You are getting close to the point of "maxed"
That's just how good rogues are @sour trout
paper bough
Would you buds be pumped if you got 385 deadeye spyglass from cache
jaunty arrow
Nope
jaunty arrow
But can be worst
paper bough
It’s Simming higher than my Harlan’s 365
bright shale
it shouldn't.
sour trout
@bright shale i'v ebeen chasing taloc hands for 6 weeks LOL
paper bough
Yea idk but fathoms and 385 spyglass sim higher than fathoms and 365 Harlan’s
jaunty arrow
Also spyglas is for singl
summer marten
it shouldnt? why not, every sim shows its comparable even on same ilvl
summer marten
comparable or even better
paper bough
I thought the 365 Harlan’s and 385 spyglasss would be my best combo
But fathoms and spyglass is
For st
jaunty arrow
I dont like spyglas coz singl target
paper bough
Even though blood alley suggests otherwise
Bm says 365 dice is better than fathoms
Sims say fathoms
pearl meteor
🤔
summer marten
I have 370 dice, dooms wake and fathoms and dice sims worst for me, but its like 0.1-0.3% worse than other two, but i still go with dice and dooms wake
its better than fathom overall
pearl meteor
its not lol but ok
summer marten
it is
pearl meteor
yikes
bright shale
@sour trout What if you sim without exs?
jaunty arrow
It is dude
pearl meteor
for aoe sure
ornate mantle
385 shoulder with shrouded suffocation / tradewinds ! Pogchaamps 
summer marten
and there are like 0 fights where you 1 target and 1 target only, other than mother i guess
paper bough
I need gale callers
surreal halo
385 Chest with Rezans fury 😢 RaidBots says its a 4% upgrade, but now I wont have any SS traits
bright shale
.<
sour trout
@bright shale i sime like -1.5 lower with TB
pearl meteor
1.5k?
jaunty arrow
Yeah cool top logs with, i saw top logs with w/e trinkets
ornate mantle
Is SS trait good for raid?
jaunty arrow
Fathoms do like 3%
drifting elbow
.....
jaunty arrow
Maybe 4%
pearl meteor
Lol
drifting elbow
its pretty clear that trinkets that has pure ST limited proc dmg, is only going to be good for ST
pearl meteor
yikes
drifting elbow
arguing about this is fucking silly
pearl meteor
so its bad on fetid / vec?
ornate mantle
?
drifting elbow
since stat buffers and what not that scales better on multiple target will be better than pure ST limited proc dmg
pearl meteor
thats not what i asked
paper bough
Is dooms wake really as good as blood mallet would have us believe? And
jaunty arrow
Dooms is goodh
pearl meteor
its good but GC is better
drifting elbow
obviously when trinket procs at same time when adds spawn, statbuffer is obviously better on that moment
pearl meteor
i never said it didnt have the potential to be better
theres a reason 90% of logs have fathoms over a 370 anything else
jaunty arrow
I saw logs with w/e
pearl meteor
i didnt say there werent logs with w/e did i? lol
your taking the occasionally lucky log and calling it better
like what
paper bough
Go and fathoms rule the rankings
pearl meteor
@drifting elbow it was stated that 5s of 2 targets anything will b better than fathoms
paper bough
Gc
drifting elbow
i dont know about that kind of time to rule anything being better in any case
jaunty arrow
Maybe they do not have better
pearl meteor
you said 370 is better lol
if it was ppl wld b using it bc its farmable.
it takes a 385 to even beat fathoms 90% of the time
drifting elbow
🤔
jaunty arrow
Dude i do not check logs every day i dont give a singl fuck i use sim and logic
drifting elbow
i mean, most of uldir doesnt have that many pure ST
drifting elbow
it kinda does
pearl meteor
yikes.
drifting elbow
when other trinkets that gives stat buffs scale better on multiple targets
pearl meteor
so why arnt those ruling the rankings
keen urchin
3% is insane for a trinket atm
jaunty arrow
Coz there are better trinkets
drifting elbow
doesnt change the fact that dmg is limited to single target
pearl meteor
doesnt change the fact that the ST it does is more than the increase of a lucky proc on 2 targets for 10s
drifting elbow
like which ''lucky proc''
pearl meteor
consistently it will be better
drifting elbow
im not even arguing trinket being bad
all im saying that its usefulness is limited to single target dmg
aside that passive agi it has ofc
pearl meteor
sure the proc is, but its ST will be better on most fights than the bonus u get from say dice on fetid or vectis where there is cleave.
hushed maple
damn I feel like, I got insanely unlucky with my Items
pearl meteor
unless you are lucky
vocal wave
Right, so I got some questions. I have 2x SS and 1 Archive atm.
Exsang seems to sim ahead 0.2% dps ahead of TB but it genuinely feels that TB is much harder to mess up. The opener is easy with Exsang, but I'm wondering how to really really use it optimally outside of the opener.
Also, for HC farm on my Rogue, I'm not gonna go back and respecc azerite traits for Zek and Zul for Outlaw. So I'm thinking of using Sin for those. If I'm going to use Sin, is CT worth usingin HC Zekvoz and Zul? Or is Poison Bomb just the better choice even on those fights?
pearl meteor
exsang on cd
hold 2mins for 4th one
assuming u wont lose casts
on kill time.
CT isnt worth on hc adds die to fast
in most cases
if they arnt dying go for it
@vocal wave
drifting elbow
while its rng ish to rely on ''lucky procs'' to do more dmg on multiple mob situations, its still in gains better
pearl meteor
on the rare chance u get it sure
consistently fathoms will be better for fights like fetid or vectis.
drifting elbow
idk about that
drifting elbow
quite a few trinkets that can be controlled via use mechanic or often proccing statbuffer is quite often at same level as fathoms
drifting elbow
even now there is logs that doesnt even have fathoms despite them not owning high ilvl trinkets
pearl meteor
like i said lol
rare chance it works out
if u just open vectis and look down line of sin rogues trinkets
4 out of top 6?
mb
bright shale
There are like... 7ish "good" viable trinkets atm
vocal wave
Exsang always used on a fresh application of Rupture and Garrote yeah?
bright shale
It is just a matter of getting htem
pearl meteor
im not saying others arnt viable
drifting elbow
yeah and top1 guy fathoms dmg is 200k total
obsidian mountain
pearl meteor
there are tons of viable trinkets for rogues rn
bright shale
correct
I am honestly finding, for myself at least. My parses are dependengin more on RNG and my guilds kill time~
pearl meteor
over another base ilvl trinket fathoms will win in 90% of cases
for those specific fights
consistency wise
drifting elbow
but it doesnt win that often
pearl meteor
it does lol
drifting elbow
its like at most 60% of times
pearl meteor
top 3 who arnt using fathoms on vectis
drifting elbow
some % because its very easily gained via AH
pearl meteor
have 380 dive, 395 fetid trinket, and double 390 395 on use
like
and 370 trinkets are very easily gained at this point
if u just farm m+
wym
if it was better the top ppl who cared about parses wld b using them
mm correction
consistently better
drifting elbow
sure its consistent
wind berry
Any one knows the Opener for MA? the one on Raven feels like we dont utilize the first MA proc at all with G mut Rup
drifting elbow
its just that much limited to single target
pearl meteor
and the ST it does outweighs the cleave of a 370 dice
in most cases.
for those fights
bright shale
how big a different is Exs vs TB these days ?
drifting elbow
my difference on those talents seem to change wildly from par to 3% difference in favor of sang when i change rings
pearl meteor
SS traits vs DD traits
is a huge teller of what u shld go
if u dont have SS dont play exsang most likely...
crimson night
Hey Guys ! Is there any differnce if I put Deadly/Quick Navigation on Main/Offhand? Or can I choose completly random
drifting elbow
i mean i only have 1 SS in raid gear
drifting elbow
but just changing rings determines exsang value a lot
drifting elbow
there is no difference which slot u enchant
drifting elbow
supposedly it was before bfa?
drifting elbow
imagine spending a lot of gold because of different ilvl looted weapons now 
pearl meteor
as if i had any gold to spend after dumping 80k a week on reforge for raid lol
drifting elbow
jaunty arrow
I had 340 weap for 3 mythic id
jaunty arrow
I guess i will be alcoholic sooner than without golds if i do reforge 😂
humble igloo
Don't be like me, be smart https://gyazo.com/7fc2c8002989539ae5763bd1148f7632
jaunty arrow
😂
jaunty arrow
I guess u are woman and u dont know what u want
pearl meteor
RL makes me swap back n forth for mythic shit
jaunty arrow
Rip
pearl meteor
Gonna jus start doing zul with no traits
jaunty arrow
I use rule i cant play outlaw until rl buy me rum
pearl meteor
N fetid
vestal wren
@humble igloo i would never spend 300k on the re-spec
pearl meteor
300k for the gains 
humble igloo
Yeah it took me an hour of debating myself but the idiot in me decided to do it
pearl meteor
Yea