np
#assassination
harsh glacier
crisp hollow
no point in playing Sin against M Zul anyway
drifting elbow
true
harsh glacier
I need to learn sub sometime just for zul tbh
drifting elbow
well it only works if strat is not to kill adds too fast
alpine cave
FOK FOK CT is still useful if you are lazy 😛
rotund barn
Doesnt laser matrix break CC?
harsh glacier
It does pull mobs an entire room away though 😃
harsh glacier
damn he is parsing well
fading spade
dont need to be told :p
alpine cave
Veqad was indulged by his raid to solo ZUL 😛
primal violet
MA/TB rota?
weary cave
So am I safe to apply Garrotes to more targets after my opener now with SS?
weary cave
Nice thank you
drifting elbow
i mean whole raid was focusing on highest boss dmg
alpine cave
@fading spade let me check, please wait
drifting elbow
hc zul wasnt that hard mechanically with nuke strat
rotund barn
Is the MA/TB traits similar to legion rotation?
plain spruce
on opener with ex and gale do you save gale for ven?
drifting elbow
u r not that bad tbh syn
harsh glacier
Yeah, I couldnt see anything wrong with Syns parse tbh
but around 2:45 the other guy has a massive spike up to 32k dps
not sure what happened at that point, but Syn just didnt keep up there
drifting elbow
only thing i could see being relevant is TB talent vs exsan
alpine cave
@fading spade He has Overwhelming Power trait , you don't have. He has 2 AOTT traits you only have 2 SS. Your Garrote dps is pretty good but, 2 AOTT traits are good for everything
He has active Trinket to use with Heroism, but you only has RNG . Finally, he has a Darkmoon card.
harsh glacier
how did he spike so damn high at 2:45 then XD
drifting elbow
i did account the difference in traits
harsh glacier
he goes from like 10k - 32k
fading spade
fuckin ghunn 8% wipe... ppl suck at avoiding ground
drifting elbow
i have no idea if ur sims really say that exsan is best to use syn
fading spade
i dont think it is
drifting elbow
why u r using it then? 😄
fading spade
mid raid i redid my sim with different trinks
even with the 2 SS running a 365 dice and the darkmoon
was simming higher with TB
alpine cave
@fading spade Your haste trinket is good for offtimes, but with raid heroism his trinket is better I think.
fading spade
and dropping my gcb entireley
drifting elbow
his trinket that pairs with vendetta cd is extremely good one tho 
harsh glacier
I think it might be TB
fading spade
im running 365 dice and dmd and swapped to TB mid raid
i actually kept up with him a lot better afterwards
i have to get used to playing with TB
harsh glacier
he gets 3 fathom falls in a row, pops TB gets off 3 envenoms and a PB proc
drifting elbow
i dont really advice 3CP envenoms tho
alpine cave
It depends
harsh glacier
I actually really cant tell what the damage difference is coming from in the Taloc fight. Bleed uptimes are the same, Envenom usage is about the same, melee damage is the same. Is it just he's using TB better than Syn is using Exsg?
drifting elbow
TB does affect well to TTK trait he has
with that 30k normal dmgs he could reach 60k crits i guess
yeah he can pull 78k envenom crits with TB buffs
mortal finch
harsh glacier
only for pvp who cares
alpine cave
But, Dummy boss like Fetid, you both look the same.
drifting elbow
yep
abstract raven
is there a write up or sim anywhere that shows how well archive does outside of raid?
harsh glacier
I think he's not using Exsg optimally
drifting elbow
exsang is most likely not most ideal for flexible situations per boss mechanics
raidbots gods
abstract raven
i must have missed it, i will check again.
harsh glacier
yeah that happens to me a lot too xD
drifting elbow
fading spade
im going to be using tb moving forward
it sims 500 dps higher with the other trinkets
and imma pray for better traits from m+_ cache
drifting elbow
thats a lot
abstract raven
ah i found it, reorigination 0
drifting elbow
i dont think MA is supposed to be run with SS anyway
that talent is kinda burst ST nuke
fallen sandal
Yeah i guess so
daring imp
MA with no SS, me
MA/tb, blightborne infusion, ttk & laser
3x overwhelming power so guuud
abstract raven
is there any reason to stack archive? doesnt seem to be simming well
fallen sandal
do you use it on fetid MM ?
daring imp
MM what?
fallen sandal
mythic mode
daring imp
i'm not quite there yet
fallen sandal
Ah 😄
daring imp
but it's a solution for more burst on add
limpid dirge
I am level 25 right now, I am assuming Assassination Rogue gets better? I know it's a really dumb question
daring imp
tho the burst from MA/tb vanish/vend is so juicy too
assassination has super slow energy regen until about level 60ish something
i'd go outlaw until then
harsh glacier
at lvl 25 you have like 1/10th of the classes abilities lol
limpid dirge
Yeah, was a stupid question! Sorry :/
limpid dirge
And yeah, might just go Outlaw until 60 or something
oak tangle
When I was levelling my rogue I did it in Assass, the aoe sucks tho
fallen sandal
outlaw is the easiest way to level up i think
slate dust
Hooks for days
fading spade
yeah im thinking about trying 2x archive and 1 ss
since my shoulders the only other option is tradewinds
ewww
gotta wait for my reforge cost to dip a bit...
20k is steep lol
oak tangle
Hey guys, relatively new to wow (been playing like 3 months) would you guys be able to help me with where I can improve, just killed heroic ghuun and mythic taloc on Monday https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QyqRTW439j7bdAHG/
daring imp
NO PADDING AT THE START? W000000000T
daring imp
there's not much to do to improve deeps aside from padding there
drifting elbow
yeah
daring imp
also depends if ignoring add on p2 so it will die on beam or not
daring imp
also you did fine on taloc
drifting elbow
especially when u have SS trait
dark token
poggers https://i.imgur.com/VIccOE8.png
drifting elbow
toxic blade used too early
u should garrote->rupture->garrote->vendetta+trinkets->TB->build to 4CP envenoms-refresh rupture when under 9sec
when garrote drops->vanish- double garrote
do usual rotation
with opener fixed, u should be seeing better numbers overall
oak tangle
Oh didn’t think about double garrotte in vanish
drifting elbow
yeah its to extend that buffed garrote to max time
oak tangle
And the extra cps too
frank shard
do you think wowanalyzer is gonna get updated for ass rogues
or is there somewhere else we can check something similar to what wowanalyzer does
drifting elbow
i dont think there is anything comparable to analyzer other than ppl studying logs
oak tangle
Also I did a quick look, on ghuun it’s 2 minutes between the beams right? I think I worked out I can add a vendetta 12 seconds before ghuun comes out, and get 8 seconds of vendetta buff on him and still have it up for the second beam
drifting elbow
i have no idea how well it lines up
drifting elbow
i've gotten new use of vendetta when boss comes out sure
with using cd's at start of p1 that is
oak tangle
I don’t bother to dps in p1 I just run around interrupting and stunning the adds, we get the beam about when the blightspreader spawns
lone junco
NB
drifting elbow
28% 
oak tangle
But yeah vendetta with 10 seconds left on the beam should give you a full 20s vendetta for the second beam
bright shale
It's finally happened guys. 370 ilvl
oak tangle
Oh I thought you were gonna say a dagger from a world quest
oak tangle
Not a problem, but to my knowledge one has never dropped, always been sub weapons
round harbor
god damnit
bright shale
sub weapons are.. daggers
round harbor
fucking idiot spawns add on zekvoz and kills 3 people and delays killtime
wouldve been rank 1 so ez lol
oak tangle
Argh outlaw sorry
prisma carbon
should i be envenoming after vanish if im playing MA? Guide doesnt really say anything about MA, but it sims higher for me
round harbor
MA i go env mut (pray for 4cp) env
might be woprth doing van tb envm mut though
idk
bright shale
I'm honestly so happy I have 370 azerite Shroud shoulders lol.
prisma carbon
yeah. i've looked at a ton of top logs and everyones doing their own thing
devout glen
whats the minimum # of mobs you guys fok over muta
drifting elbow
yeah envenomin first one with prepared CP's and mut to second envenom under MA effect
i dont think there is better alternative
TB before vanish i suppose
round harbor
yeah thats what i did
100% you want a empowered envm in that window
no matter how you do it
fervent island
Im still seeing people take SS for azerite traits, even after the nerf. All my sims say I should avoid SS, but the fact that Im seeing people still use at least 1 SS trait makes me wonder if it should still be taken?
drifting elbow
its mostly bad trait luck
i dont even have any DD traits
m+ SS trait is still super good
fervent island
but H/M raid, Im better off not taking it by the looks of it
bright shale
I run 1x SS in heroic raid and am still parsing like 80-90s~
drifting elbow
nah, shrouded is only at decent level in raid environment
round harbor
it depends on your ilvls
round harbor
sim it and find out
drifting elbow
its not like not taking any SS is going to drop u into bottom
fervent island
yeah I sim it, Im just curious. watching the trends in logs and errybody is running 1+ SS
bright shale
honestly it's probably because of the rotation
drifting elbow
yeah its just mostly bad luck 
round harbor
not everyone
versed finch
1x SB or 1x SS?
round harbor
alot mof people going none
versed finch
i have matrix and archive as the other two traits
round harbor
and raid azerite gear is more powerful imo
fervent island
true it is Rawr
round harbor
yeah id run triple archive if i could
bright shale
This is my setup atm~ it's wworkign alright
Just wish I had a real trinket
and not that piece of heroic shit
drifting elbow
fervent island
damn that 380 dagger drool
drifting elbow
its funny cuz my friend runs with high ilvl raid ones but loses to me with 350/340 m+ trinkets
drifting elbow
oh it wont mean much sure
bright shale
like a 355/360 galecallers is still >>> most
drifting elbow
but raid trinkets are pretty trash
drifting elbow
i've been trying to farm that place but pugs are so bad that it either goes 50min+ run or grp disbands
bright shale
ya a lot of pugs disban after 2nd boss
on the adds towards
the shortcut
because kick order is complex
drifting elbow
fervent island
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tDj7UhkRtGqW8zLouuWLhr
I need to get lucky with a M+ trinket soon
drifting elbow
i dont like that cannonball one at all
fervent island
yeah its brutal
drifting elbow
in my server its still 100+k tho
fervent island
40k isnt terrible actually
drifting elbow
well even if trinket was 40k, i wouldnt buy it since im casual nowadays 😜
bright shale
Not every pug finishes keys that are doing 390+ gear...
I would say MOST don't
lol
drifting elbow
in m+?
fierce knoll
raid
bright shale
Is the wowanalyzer still broken for Ass?
round harbor
i mean you farm 10s or w/e you are capable of farming
and pray for titanforges
for gear
bright shale
grave elk
If my two highest stat weights for ST are haste and crit does that mean i should have haste crit weapon enchantS? im just confused since my weights will ultimately change
drifting elbow
i've tried to get either trinket or weapon from freehold but it never drops
bright shale
yes
fervent island
yeah
fervent island
quick/deadly
grave elk
oh ok i was running vers on my offhand
drifting elbow
hmh does it make any difference on what slot enchants are on?
bright shale
It used to when OH swing wasn't 100%
drifting elbow
okay so nowadays it doesnt matter
haughty lily
fervent island
lol just ran the sims with Darkmoon deck: Fathoms instead of my cannon ball trink. Increase in dps by <300. Currently costs 60k on my server
#notworthit
bright shale
only not worth it if you dont' care about your numbers / minmax
@haughty lily I'm curious how big an upgrade that is since +110 haste is nice
frosty gyro
Most of us got fathoms week 1 or 2 and it's still bis for most people
bright shale
or is it sim lower
frosty gyro
#worthit
bright shale
It's not BIS but it's at the top for performance vs availability
fervent island
yeah i just dont see the value in 2% dps increase for 60k. Id rather just farm +10s and save my gold lol
bright shale
like I said. It depends on who you raid with and if you're a min/maxer
safe matrix
a lot of people have money to burn 60k is nothing to them
frosty gyro
Fathoms is BiS for outlaw unless you get warforged 390+ trinkets 🤔
bright shale
this is assassination channel
frosty gyro
I think the best 385 trinket is like 20dps under fathoms
Still takes warforged M+ trinkets to beat fathoms on sin
bright shale
for some, not all
drifting elbow
i want my another dagger from chest too 
bright shale
I got a 380 ring vers/mastery rofl
round harbor
fathoms is worth every penny
the most value per $ u can get on just about anything on AH
bright shale
yep
sleek iron
Wouldn’t it be nice if they upgraded uldir trinket that have haste
Overcharger it’s called
frosty gyro
Or really any of the uldir trinkets
drifting elbow
more like, fix the proc rate in that trinket
bright shale
I've had a 380 warcharger sitting in my bank since like week 1 or 2
tropic helm
When is SS worth it, if it all ? Should i take the 30 ilvl drop for Cleave fights/m+?
frosty gyro
like the ghuun trinket that at 370 does less damage with its proc than fathoms but has like 130 vers instead of 250 mainstat
drifting elbow
lets see how much difference fathom is to my current trinkets 
never actually simmed since i didnt want to spend any gold to boes
frosty gyro
Unless you have like galecallers + 380 harlans/plumage/lg/dw it's usually better
drifting elbow
SS is most likely best choice even with 30ilvl drop in azerite ilvl for M+ runs
garrote does a lot of dmg in short term fights
frosty gyro
Kinda depends on what your options are though and how many SS you have
drifting elbow
well my other choice is decent traited ones, but short term dps they are clearly less dps than 2-3 SS
even with ilvl drop
frosty gyro
Yeah basically you take SS unless you have the choice of really good statstick traits like SoB or BBI
drifting elbow
well seems like fathom is at most 1,5% better than my trinkets
spyglass and dice trinkets are very good tho
frosty gyro
Yes and if you're doing M+ I would use the better of those two instead of fathoms
Since fathoms proc is st only
drifting elbow
yea
earnest quiver
so if you're using galecaller's + vendetta in the opener, then exsanging shortly afterwards, when do you vanish? After the first set of empowered garrotes falls off or when your galecaller's + exsang combo is back up?
earnest quiver
yeah that's what i figured
frosty gyro
You want to be hitting garrote in stealth the second the timer hits 0.0
earnest quiver
then you have to hold vendetta and galecallers at the 2 min mark for like 10 sec
frosty gyro
And ideally you also want to have 1 mut in first too so you can go Garrote>Envenom>Garrote
Instead of Garrote>Garrote>Envenom
earnest quiver
oo I like that
frosty gyro
Yeah you either hold exsang for galecallers or just use exsang on cde and hold vanish/vendetta for exsang
The difference between the two comes down to fight length which is hard to predict usually
Any fight that lasts less than 4:25 but more than 2:25 you want to use exsang on CD though
earnest quiver
oh okay
so basically on the easy heroic reclear bosses because those fights are like 2-4 min
fallen sandal
I got GC 370 socket, deadeye 365 socket, dice 370, doom wake 370 socket and still the fucking fathoms Sims higer
fallen sandal
Yeah
frosty gyro
Basically all the things you named won't sim higher until higher ilv
Deadeye/dooms wake probably 385
Harlans beats fathoms around 380 usually
fallen sandal
I think the worst thing in my stuff is that my wrist crit haste 370 socket SIM higher than wrist Boe 395
In m+ I run dice gc
frosty gyro
I've gotten a boe glove and wrist drop 385 sold both since they sim bad
very minor upgrade
I'd run dice in M+ if they would drop
earnest quiver
when it comes to reapplying rupture, what CP are we looking for?
always 5 ? or is 3/4 ok?
fallen sandal
4-5 only
earnest quiver
Okay.
fallen sandal
Never 3 unless it's very critical situation
earnest quiver
makes sense
frosty gyro
Rupture at 3 is fine if you gotta it's actually optimal in opener according to APL
The thing is if you do a rupture at 3 usually when you build your CP back up it's in pandemic range
fallen sandal
Opener doesn't count obviously
frosty gyro
no the 3 cp rupture I'm talking about is different
I'm talking about uhhh
g>r>g>ve>m>r>e>mm>e>mm>e>mm>e>va>g>g>e>mm>e>m>r
that one
clear harbor
Guys what is your raid setup in terms of azerite traits. So would you run any 3s of 340 gear like ss, dd or run 355 archive, 370 laser 340 ss ? And Switch to 3 ss (340) for m+?
frosty gyro
at the end
fallen sandal
Sim it
drifting elbow
stick to full SS in m+
fallen sandal
I don't run any ss
drifting elbow
high ilvl azerites tends to be better in raids
fallen sandal
And I run 1 ss m+
frosty gyro
archive aint bad but it's not the premiere one
drifting elbow
certainly better than laser
fallen sandal
And on Wm
frosty gyro
?
fallen sandal
It pulls add from the bottom sometimes
frosty gyro
Oh lol havent had that happen
KR the minions of zul will pull from LM 100% of the time they count as in combat and not cced
won't pull other stuff with them but if you aren't paying attention you'll get feared in 1st boss room
balmy finch
So, I'm running Toxic blade and I was wondering if it was worth using off cooldown even if I'm gonna be spending my CP on refreshing Rupture
fallen sandal
refresh rupture before TB
frosty gyro
refresh early if you have to
wide furnace
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/stormrage/asmonswole#difficulty=4 if someone's got some time to tell me where I can improve, I'd appreciate it. Not sure what I can do to get into the 90th percentile range. Fetid especially is looking to be my worst performing fight.
earnest quiver
farm gold for fathoms prolly
frosty gyro
Eh ok
Well your opener is wrong check the sample sequence table under APL in sims
You should be opening g>m>r>ve>tb>va>m>e>m>e>m>m>e
3 envenoms in tb
drifting elbow
do u memorize that rotations in single letters? 😄
fallen sandal
once the opener is done you have nothing to do basicaly
earnest quiver
that's the MA opener right?
frosty gyro
@drifting elbow I just know the order of skills I answer these questions a lot
that's the TB no SS opener
earnest quiver
ok gotcha.
fallen sandal
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
frosty gyro
If you have SS and TB together it changes and the APL also breaks and does stupid things
earnest quiver
kirvin how did you parse so high as ass on m mother? did they let you sit boss?
fallen sandal
kirvin how do you see on the timeline all the spell casted by a player ?
frosty gyro
@earnest quiver yeah privelege of being good :P
earnest quiver
haha your parses are impressive ^^ thanks for all the help
frosty gyro
@fallen sandal timeline/casts
fallen sandal
to rank high on mother you need to pass on last groups
frosty gyro
and select player
Well since sin aoe isn't that good for nuking the wall adds and I'm the highest ST in my guild they just have me stay in room 1 with the affliction lock and burn boss
👌
earnest quiver
makes sense
balmy finch
Would Exsanguinate be better than Toxic Blade with Elaborate PLanning?
earnest quiver
i just went budget ass gear and blade flurry killing spree'd to help with adds lol
balmy finch
SS?
frosty gyro
Shrouded Suffocation
balmy finch
right right
got none, I hard switched to rogue in the middle of this raid season so I'm still gearing up
slate dust
My life is about to take a turn
earnest quiver
learning exsang is stressful
frosty gyro
Exsang is way easier than TB IMO
slate dust
Stressful?
frosty gyro
TB has so many ways you can fuck it up
frosty gyro
Like I've looked at 100th percentile logs of TB players
and they fuck up TB
constantly
slate dust
Full g/r exs?
earnest quiver
i think tb is easier to perform with for newer players, but optimal tb play i could believe is more challenging
frosty gyro
I think the rule is refresh garrote and make sure rupture is +20
slate dust
Easy
frosty gyro
generally I pool cp when exsang is coming up and go r>g>exsang
slate dust
Takes into account haste?
frosty gyro
Yeah optimal TB play is a pain
fallen sandal
yep
slate dust
I'll play around with it tonight
frosty gyro
Since it involves pooling energy and cp and keeping your rupture 15+ seconds when Tb comes up
dark sable
Sorry for asking a really redundant question, but is Shrouded Suff still good for Mythic+? In that case will it outperform Scent and Archive?
slate dust
I've just been using tb on main mob for m+ fok env etc
frosty gyro
But take SS over scent if you don't have SS yet
fallen sandal
you nearly dont envenom on packs in M+
earnest quiver
TB reminds me of sub which i miss
dark sable
I have SS on 385, and I have choice between Archive n scent, I assume scent yeah?
fallen sandal
you Ct
slate dust
Playing pb 🙃
frosty gyro
Yeah scent>archive
Only takes like 2 mobs for scent to beat archive and it's instant
dark sable
Thank you Thank you.
slate dust
Don't know why but I prefer pb over ct
frosty gyro
And you usually have more than 2
slate dust
Haven't played enough with CT though
frosty gyro
pb vs ct is pretty w/e usually
drifting elbow
i was kinda under impression that secondary stats amount affect exsan and TB talent values too
dark sable
Is it better to Crimson on opener or Rupture? I usually triple Garrote into spender of either Tempest or Rupture.
frosty gyro
general rule of thumb if the majority of pulls in a dungeon are 3+ mobs not counting infested bring CT
If there are a lot of 1/2 mob pulls because you are ccing infested and lone mobs bring pb
Except this week obvioulsy use CT
fallen sandal
depends on the nmber of mobs
slate dust
Guess CT is preferred for teeming weeks then
frosty gyro
Since teeming
slate dust
I'll. Play it tonight then and see how it goes
drifting elbow
well i use CT all the time in m+
dark sable
CT does strong damage.
slate dust
With sob it'll probably blow up
dark sable
So I assume 4+targets just instantly CT then start ruptures?
frosty gyro
I go like ggg>r>fok>ct>g>fok>r>fok>r
earnest quiver
yeah i like that
dark sable
Yeah, same. Just maybe getting the Agi from scent would be better to hold on tempest so you can get a hard hitting one with Elaborate up as well.
frosty gyro
Kinda depends
frosty gyro
Also on 5+ mob pulls
drifting elbow
i dont like scent trait personally
frosty gyro
ugh gotta remember
drifting elbow
its not usually better than SS in m+ anyway
slate dust
I run 1 sob 2 ss for m+
frosty gyro
It's like ggg>r>exsang>fok>ct>fok>r>va>ggg(last garrote on mob you exsanged)
slate dust
Seems to work well
frosty gyro
On 5 mobs
dark sable
Oh I didn't know you exsang early. Makes sense for energy regen.
slate dust
I'll play around with CT and exsang tonight see how it goes
frosty gyro
Well the idea is you exsang one of your SS garrotes so it falls off earlty
Then you can vanish ss 2 more mobs and reapply to the exsanged one
fallen sandal
i dont exsangue on pack
frosty gyro
You should 100% be using cds on trash gotta judge when they'll be up
ruby pelican
what's the consensus on gcb? do we exsang right after using it? or wait for gcb to finish then exsang?
fallen sandal
i use exsangue on packs of 2 only
frosty gyro
Might as well pop them together although you can exsang any time during the buff
ruby pelican
okay cool thanks
fallen sandal
exsangue is dynamic with haste
fallen sandal
so whatever you use prior or after dropping exsangue
frosty gyro
Exsang snapshots haste
fallen sandal
really ?
frosty gyro
yep
fallen sandal
fk me xD
frosty gyro
It's one of the reasons GCB is so good
Another reason is on TB using GCB with your 3rd TB will let you easily get 3 envenoms in TB
fringe wyvern
Sup yall, what's the best way to sim azerite traits? I've just been using the Simcraft desktop program, Im just not sure how well it takes into account all the azerite traits and regen array
fringe wyvern
thanks I'll look into it for sure. I've just been using simcraft for a while and Im kinda used to it
earnest quiver
for m+ you value 3x ss over item level, correct? even like -30 ilvl?
drifting elbow
not necessarily 3x
it will depend if u got at least on competitive good trait in high ilvl azerite
earnest quiver
the high ilvl azerite is archive / SoB but can't afford to reforge it anymore to SoB :\ need it as raid piece
drifting elbow
archive is good option for m+
certainly better than dropping bunch of ilvls to SS one
earnest quiver
so 2x SS with a 370 archive you would say is better than 3x ss with a 340 ss
drifting elbow
it should be
earnest quiver
ok, ty
sudden trench
So would you run 370 arc over 345 ss?
drifting elbow
archive agi+ilvl agi difference is a lot
quaint flare
sudden trench
Whats your thoughts on DD
sudden trench
I have a 385 arc piece or 385 winds or dd or sob
drifting elbow
its downside is when u r using FoK a lot
sudden trench
Not sure what is better with my 370 arc and 370 ss
drifting elbow
tough choice on 385 arch vs 370 SS
lone junco
@ruby pelican I tend to hammer exang after gc mostly depends on if you will reliably stay in the circle.
sudden trench
Nah i keep thr arc on shoulders. Ss on chest
lone junco
magic 8ball says you get to run the fuck out.
sudden trench
Head is what i have to decide on
earnest quiver
did we agree that fathoms in m+ is bad?
drifting elbow
yes
sudden trench
Arc is not there ;)
earnest quiver
like a 385 construct overcharger over it?
i simmed a 4x boss 40 sec fight
and it sims higher in that
sudden trench
Its sob or dd or winds
earnest quiver
the construct does
drifting elbow
SoB uhh is the rupture agi one?
earnest quiver
ya
sudden trench
Ya
drifting elbow
my choice is probably SoB than winds in this case
it at least buff depending on target amount constantly
drifting elbow
it does affect ST tho
sudden trench
Ye 145 agi
balmy finch
Is it best to save Toxic blade for after using a 5CP envenom or using it before even though you're not gaining CP for it
sudden trench
Before
drifting elbow
ideally u dont want to be at 5CP tho
earnest quiver
yeah you need to be pooled and at 3 or 4 cp ideally
with your bleeds not needing reapplication
balmy finch
idk if it's because I'm spamming my abilities too quickly during normal rotations
Should I slow down?
sudden trench
You do have times when you get 5cp the tb comes off
I just tb at that point then env
drifting elbow
slowing down should help to improve dps and with TB talent u r going to slow down often anyway
smart plays does better dps
sour sonnet
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy finch
Hmm, alright, I guess I should try to limit how fast I'm using abilities
Ideally I should use Envenom twice before reapplying Rupture, correct?
drifting elbow
depends
past harbor
how do you sim for +8 and above M+
drifting elbow
timing it better is that u refresh rupture long before envenom stuff
only thing u can sim is 30sec-1min 30sec fights, changing with target amounts without any raid buffs on
i usually sim 40ish seconds with 3 targets, bosses 1min
bright vessel
is there a list of BIS azerite gear?
dull compass
Whatever is high on Bloodmallet imho
sharp schooner
only as tb
sour trout
prime stirrup
youre simming with CT on and not PB
and one of your trinkets is pretty meh
try that sim with pb on instead and i bet youre 16.1k
sharp schooner
it's a talent compare that's with PB
ruby pelican
thoughts on 340 ss vs 370 archive for m+ this week?
prime stirrup
oh i didnt notice that
ruby pelican
probably could hover around 15-20 stacks during runs
prime stirrup
@sour trout honestly only thing i see that an issue is your dooms wake. replace that with a galecallers or dead eye and you will be simming alot higher
@bright vessel try that sim with RA 6 enabled
sharp schooner
doom's is actually p good tho
prime stirrup
thats what most people are posting
bright vessel
Ra6?
prime stirrup
the raid buff from wearing archive/lazer matrix if you dont have one of those pieces thats gonna be where the biggest differences are coming from
sharp schooner
yeah the array is nearly 1k dps now
bright vessel
damn
sharp schooner
assuming you have 6 stacks
lone hamlet
Guys what is the reason of using garrotes twice during opener and after vanish on 1 target ?
prime stirrup
in M prog earlier tonight i was sitting at 28.5% haste without any combat going. when i hit galecallers i have 3.5k haste
fallen sandal
shrouded suffication
prime stirrup
pandemic the empowered garrote
you want to maximize the uptime of the buff
thats why you double garrote
bright vessel
if I dont have SS is does it matter to double garrote?
prime stirrup
if running subterfuge you should always double garrote on ST
fallen sandal
you dont double garrote then
bright vessel
yea i have subterfuge, but no SS
prime stirrup
dont listen to sven on this one
bright vessel
why does the guide still say SS is the targeted azerite trait when others sim higher?
prime stirrup
if youre running subterfuge your garrote does 80% more dmg. so you should always pandemic it at start with 2x garrote
bright vessel
ah k, wanted to be sure
prime stirrup
yeah im gonna go with thats wrong. garrote builds more cp and its going to out dmg the mut in the long run
it also cost less energy
sharp schooner
with no SS it's only 1cp
prime stirrup
oh shit
fallen sandal
bro
sharp schooner
oof
bright vessel
rip
fallen sandal
the guide is made by rogue way better than us all
trust it
and more over it's proven by the numbers and the apl
prime stirrup
omnu is right forgot the cp generation from ss
sharp schooner
i mean tbh the guide is a bit out of date
snow spear
Is SSx1 worth getting with a loss of item level ?
sharp schooner
not really covering double dose/ma builds
bright vessel
I replaced my last piece with SS, my others simmed higher
prime stirrup
i take 1xss because in M+ its a boss
fallen sandal
me to o cruxial
prime stirrup
raid i run the same. im used to the rotation from SS, been running it since 2nd day of xpac
fallen sandal
im not running nor ss nor subterfuge in raid
bright vessel
what do you swap for subt in raid?
sharp schooner
there's a lot of pretty comparable traits
fallen sandal
MA
prime stirrup
i sim higher with 1xss 1xarchive over 2xarchive
lime briar
prime stirrup
youre doing fine
sharp schooner
yeah 1ss 1archive is better for me as well
drifting elbow
why would guide cover double dose trait when its literally affecting only mutilate dmg
sharp schooner
i mean it's a good trait and it isn't in the guide
drifting elbow
only part its outdated is its azerite list
nothing else
rotation doesnt change with DD
drifting elbow
yeah its not in since subterfuge is still good
sharp schooner
you can't say it shouldn't be in there though
it's literally the best spec for a lot of people
drifting elbow
i've commented on traits
sharp schooner
i'm talking about the TB MA opener
drifting elbow
using little bit of brains u can figure that its similar to TB rotation
since MA affect stealth moments
ember coral
Why we should not exs right after rupture and garote ?
broken crypt
ember coral
Yeah thanks shanksy
prime stirrup
I got mother dagger last week. got WF gloves off her tonight
ember coral
So on the site, we got the opener, but not the full rotate with exs or I’m blind
prime stirrup
ya a few dropped last week. couple with sockets. unfortunately i wasnt one of them. but the dagger is great so im not complaining
so full opener with exsan is garrote rupture garote vendetta mut rupture exsang mut....
when garrote is about to tick down do vanish garrote garrote evenom mut mut rupture
normal flint
for M+ you always run exsang crimson tempest?
normal flint
im simming higher with tb atm but idk if it should be ran in M+
only slightly though
prime stirrup
you would get a higher burst but only on multi mob trash packs
drifting elbow
u can think it as burst cd to prio kill
inner pecan
TB is strictly worse than Exsg for m+
because it requires you to stick on target for 9s
which is not ideal
drifting elbow
?
inner pecan
just run SS with Exsg
prime stirrup
im taking CT this week, but last week for most 12+s i took PB because pulls were smaller with infest cc/ watching bostering
inner pecan
you have to pump Envenoms into a TB target for it to be worth
drifting elbow
its same deal of focusing on single target with exsan too tho
ember coral
So garote, rupture (3cpt) garote vendetta mutil rupture (5cpt) and exs, right ?
inner pecan
meanwhile you could Exsg a prio mob and go back to tab-rupture and CTs
thats why Exsg is better
prime stirrup
you got it zaarg
inner pecan
it 100% is
ember coral
Ok thanks you dude 😃
inner pecan
well it's also usually just straight better with SS
but even if it was slightly behind it'd still be better for that reason
drifting elbow
certainly isnt with my SS
prime stirrup
Dont reapply bleeds when esang is ticking down
drifting elbow
so is exsang on ST?
prime stirrup
exsang is higher on st for me
drifting elbow
im not aware exsan hits all targets near u
prime stirrup
but its a case to case basis. you really need to sim yourself
inner pecan
do you not understand what I outlined above
the only way TB is good is if you stick on that target and pump Envenoms into it
which is a huge AoE loss
drifting elbow
huge?
inner pecan
yes
prime stirrup
3 if youre lucky
drifting elbow
that doesnt make sense
prime stirrup
i find if you dont have high crit FoK spam can be very unreliable
prime stirrup
i still do it. its just a huge feelsbadman when you get 1 cp
drifting elbow
its like u r not spreading everything before hand and TB prio target
inner pecan
that's all I was saying
strange python
hi guys im a noob, whats the idea behind 2x garrote so soon
prime stirrup
it is just a click it and forget. where youre going to want to tunnel in TB window. so he is right. its just not why exsang is a better trait for some people
drifting elbow
its barely any difference in pack time spent when u have done dot spreading before hand and focus on prio with TB
inner pecan
it is a reason to run Exsg over TB even if TB performs slightly better on ST Patchwerk
that was my only point
drifting elbow
u r going to notice it only if u have like 5+ targets to spread ruptures on
inner pecan
which isn't uncommon in m+ at all tbh
arctic ledge
@strange python you garrote twice with SS so that you can maximize the buffed garrote uptime with pandemic
drifting elbow
certainly some logs doesnt show exsang to be strictly better in raids vs other rogue who uses TB
inner pecan
i'm talking strictly m+
not about raids at all
my only point was that even though someone may sim higher with TB I would still recommend Exsg for m+ almost always
esp. with any SS traits
drifting elbow
idk what to say, are u perhaps checking that burst dmg numbers after fight instead of total dmg done on ST patchwerk in short fight m+
prime stirrup
exsang is better for me i can do a comparison for you. I dont have raid logs that show it because TB hasnt simmed higher than exsang for me in over a month
inner pecan
I'm talking what talent is better overall in m+ between TB and Exsg
not about ST patchwerk at all
drifting elbow
but u were talking about ST patchwerk...
inner pecan
I said even if TB is better in Patchwerk sims, I would still run Exsg for m+
because of the reasons I outlined above
drifting elbow
okay
but i dont agree to that silly ''works better on cleave'' on TB vs exsan differences
inner pecan
don't know why you don't see it but there's no point arguing my side more about it
either way it's not a huge huge deal but in my experience it is significant enough to mention that's all
drifting elbow
thats because i see whole mechanic focus in before applying the talent and after cd stuff u focus
u spending nearly same amount of time in single target in middle of pack
inner pecan
well then you are also probably not utilizing one of TB's strength's which is a low 25s CD
if you don't use close to on CD then you might as well run a stronger spell with a slightly longer cd (aka Exsg)
drifting elbow
as i said, u r only going to see difference when mobs exceed 4+ numbers to actually see difference in time spent vs talent differences
inner pecan
but if you TB on CD in AoE you are losing cleave was my original point
drifting elbow
but u arent losing cleave
as long u spread stuff before hand
usually TB doesnt get another use when pack is already dead
inner pecan
you know Exsg will actually help your cleave by giving you energy regen
drifting elbow
rarely 3 targets last over 50sec
inner pecan
TB will sit there on your bars until you need to prio a target
doing nothing while u are spread cleaving
drifting elbow
i certainly havent noticed being very low energy amount after spreadin ruptures and garrotes
without exsan
inner pecan
but some energy regen is better than no energy regen
mathematically
therefore exsg helps cleave while TB does nothing
drifting elbow
but TB is not nothing
drifting elbow
only thing im going to see difference is dmg throughputs
prime stirrup
whats the highest keys you guys have completed on time?
drifting elbow
amount of cleave time spent in my eyes doesnt itself change between talents
inner pecan
@prime stirrup https://raider.io/characters/us/stormrage/Famo
prime stirrup
thats a hell of a freehold
i chested a 14 there last week. havent ran any keys yet this week. hows it looking?
inner pecan
haven't done any keys on this reset was focused on raid so idk
just killed m g'huun tonight
prime stirrup
i see. thats impressive
meanwhile im dealing with my guild dying off to zek surging darkness and randomly hitting yoggs
you have a pov for that kill?
inner pecan
naw I wasn't recording
prime stirrup
how long are you guys going to reclear for?
inner pecan
prob just gonna 1-day clear for the rest of the tier
strange python
ss is still good for m+ correct?
prime stirrup
best
clear harbor
Do you guys run toxic bomb or crimson tempest for m+? Might try to switch to tempest.
prime stirrup
depends on the affix and dungeon. this week its a safe bet to use ct on all dungeons though
fallen sandal
CT all the time
Pb is not that good
But CT helps a lot on packs
So it's worst using it whatever the affix
solid nova
PB in KR is more than fine
prime stirrup
nah its typically around 4%
solid nova
In KRs case PB is competitive to CT
Outside of KR, I dont see any reason not to take CT
eager crystal
What's the priority for usage of CT over multi ruptures in mplus.. 5+ targets?
drifting elbow
im not sure but i've seen better numbers with CT starting at 3+
fallen sandal
Waiting to refresh dots
fallen sandal
Yes
prime stirrup
i dunno if you can link here. but you can lookup the #1 rogue in M+ and he has a +18 1 chest freehold video
safe matrix
the rule is against blatant advertisement, so if you feel that its relevant to helping someone else and it was a topic of conversation prior you can DM it over
gleaming stratus
Archive of the Titans still only goes to 20 stack regardless of stacking this trait right?
lean kite
anyone else miss nightstalker
balmy finch
Is it best to wait for Vanish to get off CD before using Vendetta on the second time?
prime stirrup
I hold vendetta and exsang to line up with 2nd vanish
Its worth to have the opener burst again
prime stirrup
I dont have a good answer for you. its typically safe to hold vendetta to line up with vanish though. might want to hold a TB for that period too
fast nacelle
there was a discussion yesterday about delaying exsang
in sims it doesnt delay exsang - i d say it depends on fight lenght though
if you dont get another third cd cycle i would delay exsang
if you do get i would not delay it
pliant wing
SS is no longer OP, so i dnt think its good to hold it
fast nacelle
it still does dmg
daring iron
SS is still really strong. Especially with 2 higher ilvl ones
I hold vendetta and exang for vanish
Most fights are shorter than 4 minutes anyways
Well the front half is
pliant wing
ye it depends on if you can delay it 20sec more and not waste an other vendetta
rancid sedge
can you pandemic a exsanguinate rupture?
safe matrix
no
rancid sedge
kk
rancid sedge
gotcha ty
strange python
When you 2x garrote (for pandemic), does it just add 30 % duration to the first one or how does it work?
pliant wing
yup it add 30%
safe matrix
-Pandemic this term relates to reapplying buffs/debuffs. When a debuff (like garrote) is refreshed, its remaining time (up to a cap of 30% max duration, so 18x0.3=5.4s for garrote) will be added to the new buff. Primarily used to give leeway to reapply bleeds, however can also be used to make bleeds last longer.(edited)
pliant wing
so from 18 to 23
river quarry
you regarrote early to extend duration of garrote
^
but for opener w/ trait yea 2x garrote
drifting elbow
its still one of the best traits in m+
eager cobalt
I could see that
pliant wing
yup worth on m+, and i like it on zul ( full dot add )
fossil quiver
They all got nerfed to the ground 2x SS will do it
eager cobalt
Has the patch fixing it on multiple targets gone in to effect?
prime stirrup
yes
drifting elbow
its fixed
rancid sedge
i got 340 SS shoulders or i got glory in battle, fan of blades, sharpened blades 370 shoulders
and i have 3 SS pieces atm
should i use the 370 shoulders instead?
drifting elbow
also there is nothing wrong with 3x SS assuming they are highest ilvl azerite
eager cobalt
Sim it
strange python
@rancid sedge sim is the best way to find out mate
prime stirrup
1xSB 370 prob simms higher if you have another SS trait
rancid sedge
so i figure its hard to sim m+ trash pulls and stuff
pliant wing
if u only m+ then go SS
strange python
I would think 1 SB 370 ST would do more than the additional 1 ss.
rancid sedge
since SS better
drifting elbow
yeah its not that easy
but u can see difference with no buffs and time put under 40sec
simmed
strange python
@rancid sedge you can roughly sim. But ss is just beautiful in m+ unless you tanks a pussy and ccs 3 out of 5 targets lol
eager cobalt
Seems so
pliant wing
yup but only zul and guun got adds on the start
eager cobalt
I finally got 2 370 pieces and I have no SS and the spec just feels slower
pliant wing
you only use SS with vanish on other boss
yea this is really bad for SS, it was funny to play x)
teal sparrow
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
queen tiger
Is Double Dose good for m+? Got a 385 chest with it, but I already have a 340 chest with SS
The ilvl gap should be worth the change, right?
even though i lost one SS, leaving me with one instead of 2
drifting elbow
really depends how often u do FoKs in m+
if u do it like 90% times on trash packs, its value is only from boss fights
which is pretty small
on DD trait value that is
pliant wing
herodamage says 385 double dose is not even better than 340 SS in mm+
serene nacelle
We barely mutilate in m+
drifting elbow
whats generic trait in that