i dont have SS lol
#assassination
hazy sphinx
frosty gyro
then just fok/env on zek
tranquil wave
you guys use crimson tempest in m+?
frosty gyro
Lots of people use CT in M+
hollow stone
Yes
hollow stone
Generally, ct is used for m+
hollow stone
It depends on group but
frosty gyro
If you're consistently pulling like 3+ mobs on treash CT is good
hollow stone
Damn kirvin on the ball lool
frosty gyro
little sparrow
Can you get azerite gear from bonus rolling in +10's?
hollow stone
Bonus roll
tranquil wave
"can you get azerite gear" stop there because the answer is NO LUL
quaint flare
i wish
hollow stone
Meaning you have to have been able to roll it normally. So no
little sparrow
i've had a few people bonus roll in M+ but never never looked at ilevels or the items lol
little sparrow
Azerite has to be the most frustrating system ever implemented in this game
Take me back to RNG legos
hollow stone
I bonus roll m+ on alts all day cause pugging raid sounds awful. No az ever
stuck shuttle
yeah Azerite system is pretty trash
stuck shuttle
big DPS difference because of 1 - 2 traits
frosty gyro
I thought I recalled looking at logs a few days ago and everyone was using PB on zek 🤔
little sparrow
i'm sitting on 340 shoulders that sim 3 dps higher than 355's because trait
frosty gyro
Seeing CT too now
honest needle
even if i sim higher with no ss traits for patch work fights should i still use 1 ss trait for aoe fights
frosty gyro
Probably doesn't matter do w/e
hazy sphinx
CT was a huge chunk of my dmg on my attempts.
honest needle
?
little sparrow
just gonna bonus roll zul twice and kms
slate bear
hi,when should i use exsg? can somebody help?
honest needle
can some 1 pl,z help me
frosty gyro
Is it like you can ggg from opener, you can ggg with vanish, you can ggg if you hold vanish etc
little sparrow
use exsang after you use galecallers and berserking, for that big snapshot
keep it on CD until your galecallers come back off CD
stuck shuttle
wrong ^
little sparrow
if you don't have galecallers and aren't a troll GL 
little sparrow
^
frosty gyro
But generally use on CD will be better
slate bear
"Use Exsanguinate if you Rupture has at least 20 seconds remaining, and you Garrote isn't below 50% of it's duration." i found it at wowhead
placid elbow
What would you guys prefer, Scent of Blood or Blood Rite
little sparrow
at the end of the fight go for it, on the first exsang i think you should sit your exsang
you'll be sitting it anyway on vendetta if you use it early
frosty gyro
I need to like draw an image for this
stuck shuttle
then no
fast nacelle
on mythic you delay stuff anyway
cause of priority dmg on important targets
and hc doesnt really matter just yolo
hazy sphinx
@frosty gyro I'll link you my logs tomorrow or Thursday after I full clear heroic and first 2 bosses in Mythic.
Hopefully, I'll make improvements. Also the first time raiding as MA.
frosty gyro
This is a really simple explanation
So the standard 5 min shows using exsang on CD higher
Idk if anyone has done like an hour long sim to see if there's any mesuraable falloff between the two
hollow stone
Lol. Im glad you specified really simple first
I had a long discussion with frozen about this and i still dont know if "on cd" is right because it makes you hold your vend longer
frosty gyro
It's just a fight length thing I think
frosty gyro
So basically do whatever you like and then get fucked by your guild killing it too slow/fast
RIP parses
hollow stone
If you were to get a 3rd or 4th vend and didnt cause you had to wait due to xsang, its probably worse
And so on
hollow stone
Riiip
warm geode
every 3 times the u hold exsg for trinket u lose 1 exsg , think about 🤔
frosty gyro
More like you lose 2/3 of an exsang and you have to ghold vendetta/vanish for 15sec
midnight carbon
Is it worth to go Masterful navigation as opposed to deadly? I lose 10 dps on ST I’m p sure but Mast > crit in M+ ?
little sparrow
We need big time sim masters on the case 
hollow stone
Yea. But if youre holding your 3rd xsang for vend. Or vend for 4th xsang, is that better? The apl says exsang on cd
But
Im not fully convinced
Basically what kirvin is saying. Im just and uncultured swine that cant type
warm geode
everything depends on the fight lengh
frosty gyro
^
fast nacelle
if you get a third vendetta without issues exang on cd and delay vanish vendetta for 20s
warm geode
when more and more long the fights r, holding is worst then on cd
fast nacelle
if you dont get a third vendetta vanish in delay second vendetta for exsang
final stone
@frosty gyro well looks like lg is getting benched not sure what i was simming when i checked all my trinkets lol
stable pine
Biggest scam!!! Meticulous Scheming and Fan of Blades for my weekly Cache! Guess who’s really sad?
grave elk
So I’m new overall to rogue, and switching from sub to sin. I downloaded hero rotation to help me learn the class. Does this add on actually help? Or does it make mistakes I should avoid?
frosty gyro
idk what hero rotation is just read a guide and practice on the dummy if you have specific questions ask them here
warm geode
read the guide, dont use rotation addons, dats is my advice
grave elk
Okay. Cause I sim at 15k dps and when I get on a dummy I’m struggling to even keep up 13k on sin or sub.
stable pine
Sin rotation is pretty easy to pick up - just take 20mins to practice on dummy
You sim with buffs/flask etc...
frosty gyro
I can't do 13k on a dummy 🤔
grave elk
Do ppl ever use toxic blades before envenom when at max cp?
unique depot
easy question guys i have 3 pieces with archive on it guildy is telling me 3 stacks of archive is the best way to go on all 3 pieces but raidbots tells me to go with 2 shrouded and 1 archive?
stray cloud
I've heard rumors that Fathoms was nerfed today. Anybody confirm that?
strange python
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gSPGnrmbJWZgxnFEP2fbSR
At this point, idk what else I can do to upgrade my gear. Is my DPS ok for this ilv?
marsh bloom
92 ilvl parse on these wipes lmao
frosty gyro
Well
You're simming TB with SS
And the APL has problems using TB with SS
So your dps is probably a bit higher
stable pine
@strange python spam 10+ for TF?
strange python
TF?
grave elk
@frosty gyro what mistake do you mean? Being at max cp and not already having tb spent?
stray cloud
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
stable pine
395 Titanforge
frosty gyro
@grave elk being at max cp when tb comes off cd
strange python
I did like 7 10s+ yesterday and literally got nothing :/
frosty gyro
Generally you want to get to 3-4cp and then pool energy for TB to come off CD, or be at 0 CP pooling
stable pine
@strange python but when you do - how exciting would it be? Lol
strange python
so that's literally all I can do? rip
frosty gyro
@strange python this is what happens when you use SS with TB
strange python
any places you suggest I target for improvement?
@frosty gyro idk what I'm looking at. 😦
ocean oyster
Is triple ss good for tyrannical too
stable pine
I imagine DD would be really good for Tyrannical
frosty gyro
@strange python basically the sim prioritizes refreshing a rupture with 7 sec left on it over casting a 3rd envenom in TB. Actually it likes to cast rupture in TB a lot from my experience but that one always happens if you have SS and TB together.
grave elk
Does the guide explain how and when to reapply the dots? Cuz I know there is pandemic or w.e but idk what rules r for when or not to reapply @frosty gyro
ionic charm
Unless you are struggling really with boss damage, ss will provide better overall damage in almost every situation than dd
frosty gyro
@grave elk refresh them in pandemic window if you don't have anything higher priority to be doing, which is like nothing usually
ionic charm
In m+
frosty gyro
DD in M+ ew
stable pine
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
frosty gyro
DD is really far down the list in M+
ionic charm
Depends on the dungeon and affixes, but yeah
smoky topaz
ss is fixed right?
strange python
so based on that my DPS should be higher than 15.7k with TB as long as I'm getting in enough Envenoms during TB, right?
ionic charm
@smoky topaz yeah
umbral pine
Hi guys ! Quick question about Galecallers, are bleeds already on the target affected by the haste boost, or just bleed put when the haste boost is active ?
grave elk
@frosty gyro oh ok i thought if certain cds got used u wanna wait for the full duration to run. if i get it right. garrote at 5? and rupture at 7?
frosty gyro
Your DPS could theoretically be higher than 15.7k on average if you played perfectly and made 0 mistakes
Remember sims play perfectly and are an average of 10,000 parses
ionic charm
@umbral pine yes they are affected except for exsang bleeds, you need to apply gc before exs because exs snapshots haste
Regular dots update continuously with haste changes
frosty gyro
@grave elk you wait the full duration on SS garrotes or any exsanged bleed
umbral pine
Ty very much @ionic charm ! That what i wanted to know ! ❤
pulsar coral
I got no SS anymore so MA sims .1% higher. Does the rotation change at all with MA?
ionic charm
Opener and vanish usage does
strange python
would it just be gar -> mut -> rupture with no SS?
marsh bloom
I'm in a mythic Taloc group....
strange python
Yes so
rocky notch
marsh bloom
you wanna vanish after TB
rocky notch
why doesn't anything matter
strange python
Its literally 40dps difference
sudden trench
what the thoughts on Swirling Sands Azerite Trait. I have to pick between Swirling, SoB and DD
strange python
40dps is error margin
bleak storm
Can someone help me with Weak Auras? How can I make it show it only shows my WA (Rupture for example) on my curent target?
pulsar coral
so MA opener is just old timey opener basically except a weird vanish TB
grave elk
@frosty gyro always pair vanish with vendetta?
marsh bloom
I can give you a tmw string that does it lol
sudden trench
track it on nameplates @bleak storm
strange python
Why what
bleak storm
@sudden trench how can i do that?
sudden trench
use threatplates, or elvui nameplates, or tidyplayes
marsh bloom
raiding mythic taloc
just dinged 8 days ago lol
how am I the top assassination rogue....
marsh bloom
i'm 359
marsh bloom
yea maybe
hollow cloud
marsh bloom
i've been called shit by so many peope in this disord lol
hollow cloud
All about that PMA 🙏
hollow cloud
Might be onto something there Eleem
slate dust
What a shit rogue
final stone
you guys know that shitty rogue?
ornate mantle
hollow cloud
glass compass
Is there any decent build for m zek prog? Or would it better to go outlaw if we are a bit slow on them adds?
devout glen
do you guys take toxic blade or exsanguinate with raids
hollow stone
Outlaw sims about 2k higher on average and does more add dmg. Do what you will with this information
Depends on traits and sims @devout glen
glass compass
Will do bud @hollow stone
marsh bloom
normal ghuun dot everything?
devout glen
@hollow stone can i link u a sim
hollow stone
You can if you want but you can do it yourself, sim for your bis az combo first, then sim your talent options w that set
I saw you typing @lone junco Thought you were away for a couple weeks. Come back to me!!
lone junco
blocked the webby at work. so I can fart around at home.
hollow stone
😬
haughty tendon
bis trinkets?
hollow stone
Context. Bis for what?
slate dust
I got the bis trinket at 320 yesterday 
haughty tendon
single target
hollow stone
Check bloodmallet and/or herodamage
slate dust
Whats preference for m+?
haughty tendon
ok ty
slate dust
Currently sitting on Harlans and fathoms
devout glen
is there a huge dps difference in M+ between tb and ex
devout glen
i just dot the mob and tents around me
could be wrong but idk
i leave that shit to the boomkins
lone junco
exang is energy feed for fok spams and rupture tabbings.
stuck shuttle
well depends on gear
you probably want to run SS in M+
meaning Exsang will pull ahead if you have stuff like GCB
stuck shuttle
exsang will sim better at 2 - 3 mins for sure
dusky tinsel
TB sims better for me but only barely at 2-3 mins
slate dust
Is scent rubbish now? I've got 1 scent 2 ss for m+
slim jetty
but how do you guys sim a m+ ? its not only the bosses.
slate dust
Only works if your group plays those. I run with a bm hunter and ele/enh shaman
hollow stone
To report back from this morning: alt went from 367.87 ilvl to 368.50 and emissary reward went from 355 to 370. The "368.5+" arg looking to be more and more likely
slate dust
Bag or equip level?
hollow stone
Bag
slate dust
Damn. Hope cache grants me the will of the gods or I think I'll miss by less then 0.5%
lone junco
@slate dust scent is fine, just make sure you tab out a lot.
esp if it is like 20-30 ilvl over your 3rd ss.
slate dust
Yeah I've been tabbing the shit out of big pulls
Ruptures everywhere
It's a glorious sight
outer yacht
are people using scent of blood in m+?
sick monolith
hmm got a 385 azerite helm today. Unstable Catalyst and Double dose are traits.
lone junco
since the garrote fix, ive been tabbing mut/g rupture. then mut/fok rupture.
works really well until there are a ton of mobs that you can fill with fok fok for sure.
my crit is too low tbh.
sick monolith
whats your crit
slate dust
Crit mast ye?
lone junco
Idk my m+ stats rn though
slate dust
1% vers
lone junco
prob 30/14
slate dust
Too much
lone junco
thats going up. i got a vers/mastery ring
sick monolith
my shit is like 23/18/29/2
lone junco
just find some weights you like. like 6t40s.
plain spruce
replaced my last SS, sims still say for me to go subt/PB, is it still the same opener "G R G"?
strange python
no
haughty pilot
is it generally better to stagger envenoms for more elaborate planning uptime? or to pool energy/ combo points then dump to get envenoms during elaborate planning
slate dust
Will do that sim now
stuck shuttle
you want to keep EP uptime close to 100%
while clipping your previous envenom within EP
strange python
yes
marsh bloom
I just got a SS trait
haughty pilot
kk ty
marsh bloom
do I sim my talents first for either exsg or TB or do I sim my stats first?
strange python
uh
plain spruce
both at the same time
marsh bloom
you vcan only do 1 or the other
plain spruce
no you can do both
stuck shuttle
no, go to Top GEar
marsh bloom
in a single sim
marsh bloom
it shows the stat weights?
plain spruce
just do weights after
stuck shuttle
then sim weights
stuck shuttle
go to raid bots, do a top gear sim
find your best gear setup with the best talent setup
marsh bloom
I have too many rings to do that
stuck shuttle
then when you find the best of both talents + gear, do stat weight sims
I would narrow it down then
just by looking at ilvl/stats
most of the time, crit/haste/mastery on ring will be best
marsh bloom
I gues i'll just do talents first
slate dust
Do you ever open with mut
strange python
You can also TB before vanish
marsh bloom
30-40~ damage increase if you vanish after TB
slate dust
For anything
strange python
no
plain spruce
would it be wise to save galecallers a few second's for vendeta or just on pull
the post above is on pull
right
slate dust
I didnt think so. Just checking
wheat zealot
@plain spruce correct
marsh bloom
it's like a 30 dps increase but you shouln't you vanish after TB if it's more damage?
lone junco
rip offhand.
slate dust
What
lone junco
got a 370 offhand. it is worth substantially less than a 355 socket
slate dust
If it makes you feel better my offhand on m+ sim shows 0.65
lone junco
but it pushed my bag ilvl up enough to get the 370 emmsary
stuck shuttle
@lone junco same, it took a 385 dagger to replace my 360 OH with socket
slate dust
And it's a 340
plain spruce
@wheat zealot saving for ven is correct or on pull
thick root
is it worth using ct on a single mob?
strange python
no
lone junco
@mint osprey 2ss and the high sob
wheat zealot
Thats its on pull
lone junco
45 ilvl is a lot.
wheat zealot
Is what i 2ws saying correct to
quaint flare
they nerfing the 370 bag ilvl thing anyways
mint osprey
@lone junco that's not an option
Its either a2nd ss at 340
Or scent of blood at 385
mint osprey
Yea
slate dust
Think 45 ilvl blows that out ye
mint osprey
Yup
lone junco
but 45 ilvl is a lot
mint osprey
That's what I'ma be running
lone junco
per piece
mint osprey
Right
mint osprey
Hm
lone junco
has to do with pack size for me
quaint flare
SS 
hollow rain
Guys, im running some sims on Shrouded Sofocation vs Fan of Blades azerite + poison bomb. For mythics+, and they seem kinda close now wtih ss nerf. any thoughts?
wheat zealot
Its teeming so yeah there will be some hefty pulls this week
strange python
fan of blades is the biggest garbage
hollow rain
3 fan of blades + poison bomb is kinda close to me on sims vs SS + crimson tempest
fallow estuary
Xbot my man
fallow estuary
You cant really sim SS for M+ since the program cant handle restealthing
indigo cradle
370 laser matrix vs 340 SS for M+? Assuming that other traits are already SS
fallow estuary
So dont trust sims on SS for M+ (:
cyan frost
is dagger in the back good for m+?
strange python
no
ebon prism
I'm doing 3x SS for life
hollow rain
T_T
ebon prism
Feelcraft
strange python
matrix is garbage for m+
ebon prism
Unless u like pulling more random shit
slate dust
So much crit
I'm running fathoms and Harlans atm but only because nothing has replaced it yet
indigo cradle
matrix is garbage but 30 ilvls of agility is not
strange python
check herodamage
hazy sphinx
Matrix has caused me more wipes in 12+ keys than anything else
I was once in underrot and it procced. It pulled a boss from uldir.
Can I sim someone elses character?
hollow stone
Yes. You can sim other peoples' chars
stuck shuttle
you can just look them up on Armory
hollow stone
Import or pull the not as accurate info from armory
hazy sphinx
Maybe someone can help me with this, but I have these 2 dudes in my guild (both dps) who are performing widly different. Ones 95+ parses, the other one struggles for 50s
ANd I'm trying to compare their logs, see how I can help the other dude improve and the sort.
sturdy python
Are they rogues?
safe matrix
what classes
hazy sphinx
Shaman. If it were rogues I'd do it myself.
sturdy python
I know rogue and fros mage lol
hollow stone
This is a sin only channel, plz go to off topic >: D. Meme's ready
strange python
yeah i dont know shit about shaman
safe matrix
point them to their class discords, also a thing you can do is the "compare" option on WCL and compare with a good shaman player
strange python
There are discords for shamans too
hazy sphinx
Ok, the compare option.
Well, people don't take it well when I tell them hey stop sucking go learn your class.
sturdy python
All about how you confront it
hazy sphinx
So I'm trying to find a nice way to help the group out.
hollow stone
insert fish v fishing proverb
safe matrix
I had that, so I just rolled holy paladin and smashed them on the healing meters lead by example. No mercy.
ionic charm
Somehow my DD/Gut shoulders are worse than my Blightborne/OP at same ilvl in single target. Didn't think that would happen
hazy sphinx
I'm gonna pop over there and drop the logs and see what people say.\
junior condor
question hero damage are saying master assassin is better than subterfuge is that the case?
stuck shuttle
depends on your gear
stuck shuttle
yes great reply
strange river
so wheres the point where toxic blade is better than exsang or vice versa, or is one just universally better (m+)
strange python
traits
strange river
I assume shrouded suffocation will lean Exsang over TB?
and would say, double dose push TB higher up?
strange river
yeah I get sims for ST n shit but m+ is a bit more of a tricky beast than an ST sim dont you think
or would you consider their m+ sims to be reliable enough?
safe matrix
they're more reliable than the average sim
stuck shuttle
^
safe matrix
they have a custom apl
stuck shuttle
thats what i wasa bout to say
strange river
i see
stuck shuttle
what sim would you trust if not theirs.
safe matrix
its still in development so its not fully accurate
strange python
should I change my rotation at all if I have sharpened blades?
safe matrix
PK at 29 stacks
spiral snow
Mystical Touch
safe matrix
That's more of a general or offtopic question
spiral snow
Mystic Touch*
safe matrix
and mystic touch
pastel sandal
why is my sim dps so low on raidbots when i turn off all buffs (bl, food etc.) in comparison to what i pull on the dummy?
ionic charm
do you hit the dummy for 5 mins?
pastel sandal
yep
safe matrix
because you've messed up the rotation somewhere
ionic charm
or luck, if you only did 1 sample. but who knows
pastel sandal
the rotation sample in simc was definetly weird yes,
but then again, its the way for every sim we do? or do ppl alter it by hand?
safe matrix
the rotation changes based on your gear or talents automatically
and the sim accounts for that and changes it accordingly
strange python
hey guys, sorry to ask again - what's the rot for when you don't have SS and no subterfuge?
The guide says to Vanish last when Garrote is at 5.4, but only if you have sub, but I'm simming higher with MA
flint swift
I’m liking assassination WAY more than I thought I would. Still have to try sub but so far I’m 2/2 for loving rogue specs.
placid elbow
Gutripper or Elemental Whirl
modern heath
Hey all, I think I remember seeing custom raidevent for simulationcraft simming somewhere. Does anyone have a link to it?
Custom raidevents*
flint swift
Gutripper according to bloodmallet @placid elbow
stray hatch
lofty sand
gritty solstice
any significant upcoming buffs/nerfs on the horizon
normal flint
do you delay exsang to line up with galecallers or just use both on cd?
harsh glacier
How should I sim for stat weights if I focus on m+? Feels wrong for my stat weights to devalue haste so much like they do if I can a 5 tar 40 sec sim?
shadow pivot
stupid question but i cant seem to find an answer and have never been a pvp boi
applying crippling poison in addition to deadly poison makes deadly poison proc less often?
celest ruin
nope
shadow pivot
then why do i never see any sin rogue using it in m+ o.o
primal violet
cause it can negatively impact what the tank is trying to do
depends on ur group
like say in sanguine, u dont want to crippling poison them
peak sapphire
Depends on affixes
smoky bluff
Depends on the mobs
shadow pivot
okies ❤ ty
primal violet
context is everything
cerulean anchor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c9kv1wt8zXRS1We1FRSowc
how on earth is this simming higher than SS in hectic add cleave
grave elk
about to do my first m+ as Sin. what type of fight do i sim for m+? so i can find out what talents i need to take
shadow pivot
tbh i never used it in pve, the only times I did people told me not to so I thought it was basically lowering my deadly poison proc, dunno why
cerulean anchor
ohhh so i did it wrong
strange python
if you wanna sim m+ dont use hectic
cerulean anchor
which one is proper
strange python
4-5 target patchwerk
cerulean anchor
gorcha, thanks
harsh glacier
rogue I really dunno if thats the best way to do it though, specially not for tyrannical weeks
grave elk
@strange python and duration? i heard like 40 seconds
harsh glacier
like it sims the trash packs sure
inner pecan
you don't need to sim to figure out talents
EP/Sub/Vigor/Exsg/CT
there you go
you can play TB if you don't have SS traits
strange python
how much singletarget dps do you lose by going with ss/subterfuge
spice surge
@normal flint Both on CD
strange python
depending on ilvl on azerite maybe 2-3%
inner pecan
SS/Subt is bis ST for some people
strange python
the idea is
spiral furnace
17k?? wtf?
strange python
just because its tyrannical
gritty solstice
how on earth do u sim 17k
strange python
doesnt mean you should go with the singletarget build with MA that sims like 3% higher
gritty solstice
link pls
shadow pivot
385 Shrouded ;_;
harsh glacier
I just meant I dont think simming 5 targets is applicable on tyrannical weeks
cause majority of time spent in dungeon is probly on bosses
inner pecan
doubt it
strange python
na
ebon prism
Do u guys think sub pulls ahead on M+ for tyrannical weeks or still no?
strange python
and even if thats true
inner pecan
and CT in everything else
harsh glacier
each boss fight will be at least 5 mins in tyrannical high keys
strange python
assume you spend 50% of the dungeon on bosses
inner pecan
not really
harsh glacier
most dungeons have 4 bosses and 35 min timers
strange python
then you get a what
harsh glacier
20/35 mins spent single target
strange python
3-4% increase to singletarget at best
inner pecan
unless you mean 17-18 tyrannical
strange python
if you go full st
harsh glacier
bosses take 2-3 mins in fortified
strange python
i mean this is just an old argument thats existed for every class even in legion
but still
frost dks always ran scythe
hunters always ran volley
mostly because the difference between st and aoe especially with those choices was so minimal
on bosses
inner pecan
basically the aoe loss you get for not running CT or Subt is =/= the gain you get from MA/PB or w/e
it's a very small ST gain like 3-4%
harsh glacier
difference between pb and ct on aoe is arguable atm too though, lots of people here tell me pb is better
but I was thinking more about stat weights
than talent choices
trying to figure out how to gear myself
harsh glacier
Speedoflife is running 20% haste
inner pecan
and seliathan is running like 6%
harsh glacier
and Speed is #1 and Seli #2
gritty solstice
nothing to do with their stat weights lol
inner pecan
focus on crit/mastery/haste probably in that order and you'll be fine
harsh glacier
Im trying to figure out if I should drop haste or not
inner pecan
stop overthinking shit
harsh glacier
tryna optimize bro
gritty solstice
the real skill in rogue in m+ is getting the feeling of what you need to perform dmg wise cause you cant really sim for it
you need to know the dungeon pulls and it depends on your path and weekly affix
crisp hollow
hey what should i be doing to parse decently on zek'voz? I only have one kill on him where i was being super careful with mechanics so i didnt push much damage
we have 2 ele shams and an outlaw so i doubt i get much small add uptime
and 2 boomkins lmao
inner pecan
so ur saying how can you parse without aoe padding? you can't
harsh glacier
still worth bleeding all the adds imo
inner pecan
it's an aoe pad fight
if you wanna parse you run CT and try to snipe adds, no other choice
spiral furnace
or ask your raid politely to stop AoEing so you can rupture them all
crisp hollow
snipe how? with ruptures?
inner pecan
have an envenom running, rupture on boss and big add, spam ct 2-3 times
till they die
sudden trench
@gritty solstice SoB or Swirling Sands for m+?
spiral furnace
SoB is fine
gritty solstice
+1
gritty solstice
i dont think you should use more than 1 SS in raids
honest needle
im saying should i def use atleast 1 for that fight
tight anvil
running exsang for raids, do you still need to pool energy for envenom/ep?
sudden trench
Lets say you have 1 370 SS on chest - Arc 370 on Shoulders - and then you have to pick - 385 SoB - DD - or Sands
slate dust
M+? Sob
sturdy python
Scent of blood
gritty solstice
ScentOfBlood
winged blaze
whats the best weps for us?
gritty solstice
Daggers?
winged blaze
best dagger i mean
sudden trench
nah I mean for raid @slate dust
prob is simming it doesnt really work - DD imo is not great for the raid tier
so I have to decide if I wanna use sands or SoB
but then again I dont want to reforge every day
for m+
jaunty ginkgo
any reason to track harlans loaded dice as sin?
light tusk
i looked the pin and ravenhold. there is no opening guide for MA and TB right ?
was wondering if i hold vanish for second TB
or use it in the vendetta window
frigid sleet
take the "No Shrouded Suffocation powers for Toxic Blade" opening
use vanish before TB and you're good
light tusk
that one still use sub tho
frigid sleet
if you want a really precise answer sim your stats weight and go see what the APL does, think its g - mut - rupt -vendetta - vanish - tb - mut - even etc
honest needle
so for raiding for fights with adds we def want 1 ss atleast right
or is it ok to use none
because for single target it doesnt want me using any
harsh glacier
why would you defs need one?
you dont need it
its nice for the opener, thats it, if it sims lower then dont use it
honest needle
wwell if its fight with adds its not considered single target
like zek and zul
and vectis
frigid sleet
everyfight that has some sort of cleave are good for SS
light tusk
ty @frigid sleet . it say gar>mut>rup>vend>vanish>tb
honest needle
so we should use atleast 1 ss right ?
frigid sleet
I like to have one personaly yes
honest needle
fort fights with cleave
strange python
on zekvoz do you guys even bother poisoning the nerubians
or just poison zek and single target the nerubian
wide narwhal
guys battlefield focus azerite power only works for pvp right?
nova gazelle
Could u guys please guide me a bit on how to read the APL info, I'm looking at it and I understand NADA from it, trying to find the opener rotation, but it's all jibberish for me, maybe I'm looking at it wrong?
safe matrix
Go to full HTML report on raidbots and open that
Go to action priority list
Then go to sample apl
I'm on mobile so I can't fully remember the exact steps
nova gazelle
Ohh the sample APL is new for me, is it also inside the full HTML report?
wide narwhal
Assasination should at least have 1 SS in gear ? right
hollow stone
Other than 1 az trait, there's no trait that you "need" for any raid boss
Just run what sims best for you
spice surge
@safe matrix Who can edit the guide in the pins? The opener for MA is asked for very frequently and it feels like it should be in the guide. It would be nice if somebody could edit it in 😃
safe matrix
I talked to weak, he's working on it supposedly
limpid willow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oqJ876V1EKfC7wRviCekoW
when will i start doing 17k dps like the last sim posted in here?
😭 🔫
spice surge
Nice, he probably got something else cooking and thats why its taking so long
nova gazelle
lol my opener is super weird!
spice surge
Ye ik
hollow stone
Well, a 385mh would be a start, then no ghuun trinket cause it sucks a lot, then better az traits. So basically when the rng gods favor you @limpid willow
spice surge
@limpid willow Most of your pieces are 370, the people with 17k have like 380+with sockets. And the ghuun trinket is really bad, you should really look for something else
hollow stone
Lol eleem
limpid willow
yeah ill probably spam a lot tonight after raid
been busy this past week with homework
void pecan
Lul
limpid willow
wait social 5/8m guilds?
nova gazelle
strange python
Rogue
Assassination
All damage reduced by 6% when engaged in combat with enemy players.
System Shock (PvP Talent) damage reduced by 33%.
somber egret
Running nothing but lazer Matrix still use Subterfuge??
strange python
on zekvoz do you guys even bother poisoning the nerubians
or just poison zek and single target the nerubian
quasi ledge
FoK adds for combo points and stay on caster adds/boss
frigid sleet
vanish triple garrote zek nerubian & one add into fok+CT spam
vanish lines up with every adds waves
wide narwhal
guys you sure that battlefield focus is not only for pvp? and my 2nd question is that do you think that a assasination should at least have 1 SS as a azerite trait?
winged blaze
ok im scared, im doing a +10 and i have some guy whos been going on for the last 15 mins about goverment conspiraces
marsh bloom
corpuscle*
winged blaze
now hes trying to convince me the earth is flat
hes either an intelligent troll or a crazy motherf**ker
safe matrix
You know what else is flat? #off-topic is
safe matrix
Well that topic should go there atleast
winged blaze
yeah im sorry meme
quasi ledge
Traits like that work in PvE, they just proc more against players. And in my opinion trying to stay with 1 SS is worth it when you have equal iLvl pieces. If you upgrade from heroic > mythic though it's worth a sim just to see the difference @wide narwhal
wide narwhal
oh th
calm sage
does anyone pvp as assasination if so can you dm me i have some questions.
assassination*
lean kite
did they fix that ss bug yet
lone junco
how would I add Battlefield Focus buff to myself. as a raid buff from another player? @spice surge?
violet lintel
lib might in my 370 cache. probably not better than keeping 3 SS , tried some sims but probably did wrong options lol (ones i did run with default options/ changing fight style said it was)
/shrug
lone junco
idk what the uptime is etc
spice surge
It just counts as your damage
mossy hazel
Cloak not work in barrier burst in MOTHER?
lone junco
one of our healers wants to run it and wanted a number of % dmg increase per player
alpine cave
I have 3 Archive of Titan traits. all 370 . It is the best on percentile. But sims still wants me to pick one SS . Should I pick SS or just go 3 AOT.
?
lean coral
i like SS purely for the opener
alpine cave
Thanks.
mossy hazel
First transition procs cheat death every pull, and I die on second transition every time
nova gazelle
Is there anywhere where there is a "single" target dummy to hit on where Matrix trait wont hit any other dummys?
alpine cave
Another question is, If I put Deadly Navigation (crit) and Quick Navigation(haste) on the daggers. The Recog Array is always changing ( sometimes like Crit 500 and sometimes Haste 500) should I enchant 2 x Quick Navigation to maintain Haste 500? P.S I don't need crit anyway event Sims wants me to put some mastery items, since my crit is capped. 28%
even*
If with RA, my resting haste is 25%
if crit is up and becomes more than haste my haste becomes 18% 😦
quasi ledge
@mossy hazel Pretty sure cloak does work. Even if not, if you're dying from people crossing the barrier you're either sending way too many over or your healers suck
frosty gyro
99 on M Mother woo
spice surge
@alpine cave Fairly certain RA is based of your stats only and disregards temporary buffs
Im not 100% sure, but thats how similar effects have been handled in previous expansions
quasi ledge
Nah RA analyses every 5 seconds and will swap
alpine cave
@spice surge I have tested today, during trash clearing.
spice surge
Unlucky then i guess
mossy hazel
We send 15 at the first pass and I seem to be the only one dying...
With cloak + feint
quasi ledge
15 people going over at once? That's a bit....excessive
alpine cave
I will test again picking Proudmoore Admiralty Toy Dummy to Uldir.
quasi ledge
Well if you're dying each 2nd barrier I'd say it's not working :p
And something else must be happening if you're the ONLY one dying
But regarding RA, it 100% swaps to whichever your highest stat is every 5 seconds or so.
Got Blightborne on my shoulders and it constantly swaps from haste to crit
fierce knoll
whats the opener without SS?
quasi ledge
Even have a WA for it
alpine cave
@quasi ledge , so should I enchant Masterful navigation not to mess up my haste?
quasi ledge
Doubt it. Getting extra crit is still really beneficial
drifting elbow
u mean u r not enchanting haste?
alpine cave
My crit becomes 55% or something
quasi ledge
I get about the same
alpine cave
@drifting elbow I will copy my question, Another question is, If I put Deadly Navigation (crit) and Quick Navigation(haste) on the daggers. The Recog Array is always changing ( sometimes like Crit 500 and sometimes Haste 500) should I enchant 2 x Quick Navigation to maintain Haste 500? P.S I don't need crit anyway event Sims wants me to put some mastery items, since my crit is capped. 28%
even*
If with RA, my resting haste is 25%
if crit is up and becomes more than haste my haste becomes 18% 😦
quasi ledge
Actually like it when im getting double Mutilate crits
drifting elbow
idk about RA buff dps differences but its pretty clear that having double haste weapon enchants or haste/mastery isnt ideal vs haste / crit enchants
quasi ledge
Mastery sims higher than crit for me, so it could be worth it
drifting elbow
doesnt that difference show up in sims with RA active anyway?
alpine cave
May be I am special case, I put all of my slot with crit haste.
loud niche
so i just simmed myself... 365 dice > 380 resonating heart/370 spyglass/375 electromental jar? and none of those are better than darkmoon deck?
that sound right to everyone?
alpine cave
Thanks for sharing your opinions.
I have 375 spy glass, and Fetid Brain 380. But , sims always wants me to put Darkmoon card.
May be it thinks crit can mess up array or something. 😦
drifting elbow
i got crit use trinket with vendetta paired up, crit is really good dmg especially when u line up with toxic blade buffs
alpine cave
I am with TB and PB
drifting elbow
i even got nice 50k crit in envenom with one TTK trait
alpine cave
for Uldir. Only Zul Exsan and CT.
drifting elbow
i was planning to use exsan but stat differences with new loots made it equal to toxic blade
marsh bloom
How tf do I use galecallers?
spice surge
On CD
spice surge
Or well, assuming you dont have to move
alpine cave
Zul is special case, you know. When other classes are doing 22-30K on the 1st phase I don't want my rogue to do constant 13-17K dps 😛
drifting elbow
hmh that doesnt happen to my zul hc kill tho
we kill all adds instantly and nuke boss to final phase
so my boss dmg is easily top1
alpine cave
If they let you tunnel, that's good :D.
drifting elbow
easy rogue job 
prisma crescent
Once I drop SS for raiding for triple archive, master assassin takes over right?
alpine cave
garrote DPS is pretty good anyway. 80% increase so
drifting elbow
master assassin is kinda related to pure ST nuke tho
since it gives ridiculous amount of crit
prisma crescent
Ye hero damage is saying MA with triple archive
empty gyro
Whats the best opener for TB? ive been running Exsang with SS traits so long im not sure
violet lintel
why is DD so high up in list anyway?
drifting elbow
garrote,rupture,garrote,vendetta+trinkets,TB,envenom,mutilate to 4CB, envenom
keep going and refresh garrote with vanish
honest needle
is it worth dropping to 1 archive instead of 2 to use a ss
honest needle
not even on ghunn ?
honest needle
right now i only have 1 archive and 1 laser matrix . my shoulders is 385 scent of blood or 355 ss
whats best to use with my shoulders
my helm is archive and my chest is laser matric
drifting elbow
for purely boss dmg, scent of blood one is good
honest needle
but u dont think ill do more dps on ghunn for parses
round harbor
SS is dogshit in raid
honest needle
if i use the 355 ss
drifting elbow
SS is not that dominating trait in raid due to limited use
m+ its really really good
if that trait never got nerfed, it could have been used in raid plenty of times
but now its just add dependent value gain
devout glen
is there a website with guides/tips on certain raid boss fights?
frigid sleet
alpine cave
SS is not dog shit in raids, Garrote Rupture Garrote opening is still damn good
strange python
so I just tried doing a m12 without SS, and it feels awkward AF
rotund barn
Seems like TB and Master assassin is the way to go now
strange python
should I stick with it or go back? using the SS vs not using is like 400-500 dps diff
drifting elbow
im only using shrouded trait in raid cuz im really unlucky getting better high ilvl azerite traits
u should always use SS in m+
violet lintel
im in that same boat veq, still having fun... thats all that really matters 😃
strange python
the SS trait is on a 370 chest, and the only one I have
I would have to constantly reforge
for raid and m+
drifting elbow
its fine since its good dmg even if u got DD trait in same item or archive
most optimal raid ones should be used tho, not with constant reforging 😄
violet lintel
just hope you get lucky with an equal chestpiece so can make a dedicated raid one lol
strange python
well I'm using a THK helm and archives chest, I can try doing archives helm with SS chest
!ss
violet lintel
ss is fixed
cerulean magnet
yo guys , sharpened blades is still a thing? sims are telling to get it on
strange python
cool stuff
grave elk
wait was there changes to rogue traits today?
strange python
yeah I can't do that switch, it's liek a 500 DPS difference
cerulean magnet
for me its a 600 dps gain
and puts assas ahead of my sub finally but im sceptical
fervent sonnet
strange python
15.2k with SS chest and archive helm, but 15.9k with current setup of archive chest and Twist helm
but it feel sso weird
grave elk
if haste and crit are my current highest stat weights should i put those enchancts on my daggers
alpine cave
Now I fully understand my Sims
all Crit/haste on ever slot is not really good
mastery should be at least 20%
and Masterful navigation Sims is better than Deady Nagivaton since it will not mess up Haste RA.
Navigation*
violet lintel
but its fun seeing all them crits~
drifting elbow
well uhh
while mastery is occasionally good
setting certain points mean nothing
like i got good value with having high crit when i had low haste amount but that changed when i got high amount so crit value went to medium levels with mastery
tbh i wouldnt really worry about RA buff unless sims say its extremely vast difference
alpine cave
I want my constant haste 25% from RA and Crit 28-30%. I don't want crit 55% and Haste 17-18% again. When during Bloodlust or Heroism it is sure Haste RA will be up.
So I should choose mastery enchant.
Haste+mastery
drifting elbow
well what was difference in dps with mastery enchant vs usual one
drifting elbow
feelings matter pretty little given that u r still using quick enchant on other weapon so the chances on proccing same time as that is fairly good
may aswell be no difference with that difference
alpine cave
ya 😄
Since Sim is make me use my 370 (haste mastery back) and 370 (haste mastery belt) instead of haste crit ones. I am curious why dafuq , seriously sims. But, I now understand.
making*
molten moon
What raidbot settings do you guys use to sim M+?
drifting elbow
u dont sim m+
alpine cave
I didn't sims at all for M+
drifting elbow
best u can do is sim 30sec to 1min fights on pure ST or 2-3 targets
molten moon
I see, you guys dont change targets to 3 or anything? Trying to see if scent of blood is worth
drifting elbow
u can set more targets if they are consistent on ur usual m+ pulls
scent of blood is okay i guess but doesnt really top SS
SS is just that good
molten moon
i have the optino to go SS and Scent
drifting elbow
take SS
alpine cave
both is better I guess
opaque grotto
ez double mythic mother daggers
alpine cave
combined with FOK FOK CT FOK FOK Rupture, tab tab 😄
drifting elbow
depends on ur ilvl azerites
while i have option to use raid level azerites, they barely make any difference over SS with 1min to 1min30sec boss fights
also doing trash packs even faster is good way too with SS traits
so its 50/50
earnest quiver
anybody have advice for galecaller's with exsang? am I holding galecaller's/exsang until they're both up? or do i press them as they come up
was parsing well before i got galecaller's but now managing it i'm struggling
drifting elbow
dont u use it with vendetta
drifting elbow
exsan is after vendetta use tho
earnest quiver
oh true
alpine cave
Exsang be like (I don't need haste at all build crit+mastery) You can fail your dps lost with Gale caller but, not really good for M+ boss since it needs a lot of movement.
fill
sorry
fill*
earnest quiver
so you're saying it should all line up?
galecallers + vendetta on pull, exsang shortly after once bleeds are up, then a minute later you can gale + exsang again
and then a minute after that you get all 3 again, right?
drifting elbow
use trinket on cd so that u can use it with vendetta again at 2min mark
at least thats what i believe to be best way
fading spade
Well I think it's time to give up on rogue. We recruited a new one and I cant keep up with him at all lol
harsh glacier
you use galecaller and vendetta on cd and hold exsang to line up with galecaller.
fading spade
I now see how terrible I am at it lol
earnest quiver
ok tyvm!
thin island
@fading spade thats how im feeling right now too
harsh glacier
Why give up on rogue? Why not just try to figure out why he's beating you? Maybe ask him
alpine cave
@fading spade try outlaw 😛
drifting elbow
are u using same level of gear and traits as him?
alpine cave
I am always a fan of outlaw. But, I always play assassination since Legion. That's why
drifting elbow
there is going to be differences between same spec users on openers+ azerite traits
alpine cave
I am always inspired by outlaw dps.
drifting elbow
like im blowing 2 of other rogues at zul with easily superior boss dmg despite not being active raider and they raid
harsh glacier
as sin Veq?
drifting elbow
yes
harsh glacier
yeah I cant keep up with the other dps burst aoe
drifting elbow
i wouldnt mind burst aoe tbh
assa only does good constant aoe with tempest talent anyway
harsh glacier
Single target boss damage on Zul I do fine, but my parses are terrible because my aoe on the adds is bad cause they die so fast
fading spade
He has a DD a twist and an archive
alpine cave
Just pick Crimson tempest. 😛
harsh glacier
Syn, got any logs? We could have a look and see if you're messing something up?
alpine cave
I am always top 4 at Zul 😛 shit DH are still top and warriors 😦
viscid token
do you guys take CT on Zul usually?
drifting elbow
well ur buddy has advantage in traits being higher dps values
CT isnt good at zul unless mythic level
fading spade
I can post some after raid. Were working h ghunn rn