MA = ?
#assassination
shrewd bane
warm geode
50%
quick fog
Master assassin
shrewd bane
oh ok
restive storm
who's right then, bruno or gru ?
quick fog
For who asked about Master apoisoneer. I go that for AoE, Elaborte Planning for st
quick fog
That is the basic order. I'll have to look.
Just where vanish is is the only difference
shrewd bane
in mm+ with one SS better go MA or Sub ?
spice surge
MP is actually worse than EP on AoE
hidden oasis
yea
spice surge
As you get more CP and have higher uptime on EP
hazy sphinx
All you need is one SS in m+ honestly, you'll do great with it.
hidden oasis
hazy sphinx
It's happened
hidden oasis
rly like the MA playstyle
warm geode
i would advocate for bleed, less rng, if was the leggo shoulder (100% crit ) fine, but u can on one pull do high dps and if gets low, is so low the dps
warm geode
i sim a little bit (around 50) for poison, and still play bleed(was 300dps 7days ago, and still bleed for me)
hidden oasis
i sim more with MA
than with sub and SS
but my trinkets are soo shiiit maan
feelsbad
dire spoke
that's patchwerk
hidden oasis
well yae
warm geode
and with any extra add, bleed is better, cuz garrote 😃
unreal coyote
any time theres another target subt gonna be better
unless you have vanish for every add
XD
rocky notch
i broke 17k, we did it reddit
plain spruce
Prove it
frozen badger
is garrote subterfuge x4 fixed?
wary anchor
if i vanish garrote to extend garrote will exang continue to speed itup?
tough egret
does shroud reset when you put in a key
old summit
Yes
bleak tusk
can preshroud for extra net 5s
plain thistle
@wary anchor no, you will overwrite the exsanguinated garrote
frozen badger
probably want rupture first for elaborate planning
wary anchor
o didnt even think of that
ember ermine
Got DD 370 Chest from Emissary 
frozen badger
when is DD better than Shrouded?
ember ermine
In what setting @frozen badger
frozen badger
Idk, I'm asking
frozen badger
alright. do you go DDx2 + 1 Archive in raid and SS x3 in M+?
I'm changing from Sub to Assass, so I'm still trying to get to grips with it
daring cave
So between sharpen blades and poison wire which is best?
exotic glen
yes
frozen badger
im 371 and I got a 340 wtf
ember ermine
I dont have 2x DD usually just sim for with my pieces and yes 3x SS in M+
lol...Im 367/369 and got the 370 cache
frozen badger
ember ermine
Eu or Na
strange python
How come the guide says to apply garrote and rupture at 5,4 and 7,4 aproximately and not just as low as u can without dropping it?
frozen badger
And just say to hell with stacking garrote damage, playing around envenom poison damage + toxic blade?
wary temple
what is MA rotation like @ember ermine ?
warm geode
keep garrote, keep rupture, pool energy when tb is comming of cd, and open
garrote>mutilate>rupture>vendetta>mutilate>vanish>tb>env>mutilate
ember ermine
@wary temple check warcraft logs for people running MA/TB to get an idea of the rotation
I just swapped to MA/TB so I have to learn again too
sharp lake
What stats do ya'll run for M+? Crit/Mast?
ember ermine
Yes
sharp lake
Cool, thanks
fresh coyote
quick question - we're still rolling with 3x SS for M+ regardless of ilvl right?
ember ermine
usually yes
graceful swallow
Not always, but it's very good
ember ermine
I run 355 helm. 340 shoulders, 370 chest.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6KfFLviQUmgywn1JP3raSD with the new DD Chest > SS Chest
rotund ridge
guys why exsanguinate is much better than TB in m+?
echo cargo
Huge synergy with SS and TB requires envenoms
I typically focus more on keeping multiple ruptures + CT up and envenom less
ember ermine
and CT
echo cargo
If you're using SS, Exsang just makes it dump lots of damage
ember ermine
Pretty much what Gucci is saying
rotund ridge
ohh thats right thanks u ^^
strange python
How come the guide says to apply garrote and rupture at 5,4 and 7,4 aproximately and not just as low as u can without dropping it?
ember ermine
@strange python If you apply a bleed while the dot has 30% or less time remaining then the duration of your existing dot will be added to your new dot.
The thing I copied was about feral bleeds oops.
But its still the same idea
echo night
trail hazel
is Master Poisoner not used anymore?
daring imp
it affects a lower part of our dmg
trail hazel
ty sir
lost sentinel
trying to do gear compare on raidbots, but they changed the way you select gear and cannot figure out how to compare azerite traits
anyone understand the new format?
hollow moth
spice surge
@lost sentinel I dont see any changes? Just type in the name of your chest and choose other traits in the azerite tier boxes?
exotic abyss
Im waiting for blindside to be a thing, le us execute!!
daring imp
blindside baseline plox
dim pivot
I better get 370 shoulders I already have 385 helm and chest 😭
lost sentinel
seems like they made this method of gear compare much worse, weird
ah nvm, I'm on the wrong tab
subtle bane
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
silk jolt
fossil agate
shy escarp
yes, hotfixed a couple days ago
primal gazelle
praise the lord
daring imp
gcb/dice @silk jolt
inner pulsar
Hey guys, is SS any good for M+?
plain thistle
super good
spice surge
Did you simulate yourself?
plain thistle
😃
inner pulsar
Oh, I stimulate....
inner pulsar
Yeah, I thought that was on purpose
plain thistle
but yeah, SS is great for m+
because you can apply 3x garrote and you can re stealth a lot
spice surge
It was, but there was no good emote to post when i sneak-edited
So i failed my meme-exam
plain thistle
both increase the value of the SS trait
inner pulsar
The question itself was a joke
plain thistle
🤔
inner pulsar
I am aware of SS's strength in M+, because I read the discord for more than 2 min before posting a question
inner pulsar
And to that point, LOL at the person who said "Every Spyglass WQ" because I see that shit 100% of never
winter fog
370 helmet with swirling sands / fan of blades any usefull? or should I stick to my 340 ss?
quick fog
Gotta have that shit roll up like 45 ilvls
I'll pass
That's quick mafs don't yell at me
inner pulsar
@quick fog I hear you, but I don't think I've even had the chance to be disappointed in that quest in over a month
@winter fog Going to need to sim yourself, that sounds like a terrible helmet, but I don't know if it is terrible enough for a 340 to overcome it
quick fog
With Lion's Guile/Doom's Wake being so "easy" to obtain and Galecaller's being so good even at a lower ilvl I just wouldn't even waste my time on it.
empty gyro
So we can apply a 4th+ garrote after our 3 inital empowered from stealth without the 3 empowered being weakened?
empty gyro
Sweet deal
inner pulsar
I'm still rocking a 345 Dice, because RNJesus is not my friend, so I'd waste my time on it
quick fog
What's your other?
inner pulsar
I mean, it wouldn't WF or anything, because of said disdain from RNJesus, but I'd try
tulip kernel
Swirl sands is one of the better generic traits. It sims ok ST. 24% uptime.
inner pulsar
Fathoms of course bro
quick fog
Just do Shrine till your eyes bleed.
inner pulsar
Thats the plan, I just hate people..so much
quick fog
Oh I agree. I hate pugging there cause the Boomkin won't stop AoEing the adds around the mini boss and we die 15 times
final stone
soo lions guile good or what?
final stone
hmm so fathoms/lions
inner pulsar
Like, after every run, I think to myself "How do these people exist? How do they not get killed in RL everyday by their general stupidity?"
quick fog
You can do better than Fathoms at this point
final stone
i simmed my fathoms and harlans against it and lions wasnt better
quick fog
But that's if you are lucky
inner pulsar
And yet I am surprised every time I encounter them
crisp hollow
is 370 fan of blade/sharpened blades more ideal in M+ than a 370 archive?
final stone
buuut lions 2min cd is perfect line up
spice surge
Yeah @inner pulsar ive been doing some shrines. I love it when i say "dont aoe" on the aoe wind girl, and then ofc the adds are demolished and we wipe because the aoe destroys us
quick fog
That exact mob @spice surge is what murdered us
tulip kernel
@winter fog eyeballing herodamage.com 370 swirl is about 500 dps over 340 SS on a 5 min patch
quick fog
The Boomkin just killed all of them
final stone
soo ill have to check out my lions guile and 365 harlans and see how that stacks up
inner pulsar
You would think that the WoW population would be somewhat representative of the overall RL population, at least reflective of NA on NA servers. And I don't mean demographically, but there is a large enough sample size to say the IQ dispersion should be about the same. And yet you've got dumbasses that do the same stupid things over and over. Like, are these mongoloids around us all day in RL?!
crisp hollow
"think of how stupid the average person is, then remember half the population is even dumber"
- George Carlin
inner pulsar
@crisp hollow Touche
quick fog
Especially when just told to not do such
jade rune
Dumb question, how are Sin rogues doing double envenom one after the other without using MFD or mutilate?
rain ibex
!ss
inner pulsar
They aren't
jade rune
Hm ok maybe some messed with the add on streamers are using to show rotations/keys pressed
ruby idol
If they use trufi gcd
inner pulsar
Oh, that is just them hammering the key
ruby idol
It shows double mut and double envenom
jade rune
Ahhhh ok I was like “WHAAAA?!”
I thought I was missing out on a rediculous trait or something 😂
ruby idol
I use it cause I think it looks nicer but that bug is annoying ya
jade rune
Gotcha. Thank you!
inner pulsar
Yeah, its just like getting 4 Garrotes in Subt window, you just have to try harder
empty gyro
no
inner pulsar
No, that's why it was a joke
jade rune
The 4th goes on CD cause it’s a normal garrotte
empty gyro
That's why it isnt in the window 😛
jade rune
Right...
frosty gyro
4 garrote in sub window is ez
empty gyro
I'm just happy they fixed the bug
frosty gyro
Just go outlaw use AR then switch specs 👌
empty gyro
I mean SS is still best trait for M+
inner pulsar
@frosty gyro True True
empty gyro
Soo there is that
strange python
I only have one shrouded suffocation on my chest but it's 330 is it worth trading it for a 355 with fan of blades and unstable + base stats?
inner pulsar
Is it sad that anytime I see a new name typing, I get ready for a question that has been asked 10890991 times before
empty gyro
Not for M+ 123
frosty gyro
Fan of Blades got a 75% damage reduction in pvp
strange python
ahh
frosty gyro
and the range doesn't stack anymore
rain ibex
Exsang all day
final stone
so once i get rid of my ss traits for raids i wonder is i should swap to MA
strange python
TB and it's a 330 so just a defensive after SS
inner pulsar
Don't wonder, Sim
final stone
yeah for sure i will just at work atm lol
empty gyro
That 2nd trait will be big sinceyou have a 330
bleak storm
What traits would you recommend for m+?
empty gyro
Yeah, check out Bloodmallet as well
inner pulsar
I would recommend the traits that you have
bleak storm
@empty gyro yeah, i looked at it and it says ss+sub is good, but ss on it's own is trash
slate jacinth
Why does raidbots say that 2 x archive is better than 1 archive and 1 ss?
bleak storm
is that for multi target or what?
final stone
yeah right now i have 2xss and 1x laser matrix and i run exsan on shorts fights and TB on fights 5min or longer
empty gyro
because of the massive stat boost in raids
final stone
and i have a 385 ss chest so i may have that for a bit
slate jacinth
Sorry I came right into a debate. Could someone explain to me my above question? 😃
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth Because it is better
final stone
yeah i suppose @empty gyro because the dmg difference on a sim 5min or longer the difference is like 30 deeps lol
slate jacinth
What about in M+? Is that just the same?
inner pulsar
I'm honestly not trying to be glib
slate jacinth
Nono, I know.
empty gyro
And thats assuming perfect play @final stone
slate jacinth
I just think I read somewhere the other day that its never worth it to take more than 1 archive.
inner pulsar
No, SS would pick up value in M+
empty gyro
I think it's easier to play "perfect" as exsang
final stone
@empty gyro oh ofc
inner pulsar
However Archive is strong everywhere
empty gyro
Yeah Archive is a middle/top trait
inner pulsar
Also, when you Sim @slate jacinth , make sure you choose the nightly builds
empty gyro
But in M+ if you have the option for SS, go with SS
jaunty salmon
You play triple archive in raid like in m+ ?
inner pulsar
@jaunty salmon I play whatever sims highest out of the gear I have
empty gyro
If you have triple Archive you definitely use that in raids
inner pulsar
So for me that is LM > Tidal Surge > DitB
bleak storm
archive and laser matrix should be used in raids, but ss is better in m+ right?
strange hatch
Cache patch live in EU as well btw
empty gyro
Yeah KC
inner pulsar
@jaunty salmon Your question is do I play triple Archive in raid I thought
jaunty salmon
in raid like in m+ *
fossil lake
https://gyazo.com/85aaa6dfd877b2c8af572cea64b9353e is it worth dopping 5 ilvls for haste in m+?
fossil lake
even on tyran weeks?
inner pulsar
@fossil lake Well, since your question is about a weapon, the answer is hell no
fossil lake
alright, sims said it was worth but simming cleave is a bit tricky
empty gyro
M+ is pretty much always about the packs
Lol I didn't even look that it was a weapon 😛
empty gyro
Yeah I really wouldn't downgrade a weapon unless it was 5 ilvl and the 2ndaries were TRASH
inner pulsar
I would punch my Mother for an extra 5 ilvls on a weapon
slate jacinth
Thanks @inner pulsar 😃
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth Welcome
bleak storm
You guys run Crimson tempest in m+ or PB? What do you prefer
inner pulsar
I like CT, but there are plenty of great players running PB
jaunty salmon
i would say, take the one you prefer ?
empty gyro
CT is probably a marginal overall increase. And it's something you also have to dedicate CPs to and keep track of
Plus CT only becomes a nice boost with larger packs
probably 5+
jaunty salmon
yeah
fossil lake
on that topic, i've seen two setups for m+ assa. Master Poisoner>Toxic Blade> Poison Bomb OR Elaborate Planning>Exsanguinate>Crimson Tempest
what's best?
empty gyro
I wouldnt drop EP ever
final stone
ct is nice on a lot of places but when you get everyone being pad lord and killing small adds and turning other mobs into massive BEASTS in M+
empty gyro
I don't think they do
empty gyro
Pretty much EP & Sub are mandatory in M+ if you have any SS traits.
final stone
i play both but my traits are MUCH better than they are in sub'
empty gyro
Mostly referring to Sub though for that
bleak storm
I used to just play sub and then finally gave in to assa lol
a lot easier to play atm in m+
empty gyro
I don't likethe downtime of sub when you aren't in SD
slate jacinth
Everytime I sim, TB is always quite high compared to exsang. Am I simming wrong? Since so many ppl are using exsang.
empty gyro
I think Exsang is the "easier" ability to use
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth No, TB is high for you most likely because you aren't running any SS traits
empty gyro
You just have to make sure you use Exsang correctly
bleak storm
How would you use exang without when not using vanish?
empty gyro
You use Exsang off CD
inner pulsar
You should also see how you sim using Master Assassin
empty gyro
You just make sure Rup is above 30 sec and Garr is above 20 sec
final stone
@bleak storm on cd with high times on gr/rup
final stone
oh course empowered but thats common sence lol
empty gyro
You never know man
inner pulsar
Many of the people you see using Subterfuge and Exsang may be doing so out of habit rather then it being optimal
empty gyro
Ive seen people that don't know you can get your Rupture and Garr to last logner then a normal cast
final stone
truth 100%
spice surge
Thats incorrect though. You need your ruptures to be >24 seconds and garrote doesnt really matter
spice surge
Did you check how simc handles it?
Well yes
But you dont want to clip uptime
And just refresh it right before
bleak storm
Would it be worth putting up a rupture, garrot and then running internal bleeding and then exang?
spice surge
If you refresh at 20 you lose 20 seconds of rupture that you spent CP on
stable pine
Perfect ideal traits for raiding would be 2xDD and 1xTitan or Laser right?
empty gyro
i gotta go
but yes you obviously want to clip as little as possible
But id rather clip a 20 sec rupture then not empower it for Exsang
bleak storm
can you explain empowerd rupture?
spice surge
You can do whatever you like, im just saying what simc has shown to be a gain
slate jacinth
@inner pulsar Oh, that might be it. If I select top gear -> and select an azerite piece with both SS and Archive and select both, and choose Exsang, it should sim it with both options right?
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth Yes, the new top gear will sim both of the traits, and the talents
inner pulsar
Give me a sec I'm running it
final stone
thats about the difference for me when i sim exsan and tb
on 5min sim that is
you go like 4 or 3 min sim exsan wins on sim
like boss fights that you melt and are shorter duration
fading spade
Exang really only shines with gcb due to snapshotting.
Otherwise most people will see a negligible difference
wheat zealot
Or if youre a troll
spice surge
Snapshotting has literally nothing to do with it lol
As most of the time you dont even use galecallers and exsang together
SS makes exsang better
fading spade
Gcb got nerfed? O.o
spice surge
before SS nerf
spice surge
feel free to search for galecallers in #tc-research and see the discussion for yourself @wheat zealot
fading spade
I just know when I got a gcb and resimmed it was an 800 pt dps upgrade
spice surge
Its a good trinket as exsang scales well of haste
inner pulsar
slate jacinth
Yeah thats the same I came up with
So for me, exsang is only worth if with 2 x SS traits
inner pulsar
Thats true for most people
slate jacinth
Im so tempted to drop the archive trait in my chest and take the SS instead, so its also more viable for M+
slate dust
I did that last night
strange python
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth So do that, it is a less than 40 dps difference from the optimal setup
inner pulsar
Shit, it is less than 25dps
tropic hull
dark token
I'm just happy I can use my 370 azerite set for zul now so I don't have to reforge lol
pallid rock
Is battlefield focus/prec accurate in the sims?
warm geode
someone would still play bleed ?https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ex6DkijmC1qk7FJshZyyt2
somber moon
whats the no ss master assassin opener?
warm geode
g>mut>rup>vend>mut>vanish>tb>env>mut
at least is what shows on action priority for me
ember ermine
From logs I've seen g>mut>rup>vend>vanish>tb>mut>env>mut MA/TB opener
supple pagoda
for exsanguinate build every time i exsanguinate should i let the bleeds count all the way down before i refresh or should i refresh when it hits pandemic?
supple pagoda
ok thank you
stable pine
@shrewd bane 370 from emissary? What!!!
light kestrel
The hotfix went in today
lone junco
@spice surge with the truth bombs
light kestrel
They scale up to 370, although some of my guildies are still getting bugged caches giving them 325 gear when they're 370+
nimble tartan
Maybe it's old caches
spice surge
I heard people getting 295 😄
lone junco
our guild voodoo thinks it is tied to neck ilvl
dunno personally
if that is the case, I have 362 ilvl but shit neck. so we'll see
young meteor
I'm 367 bag but the reward reads 355. Gonna wait for +10 cache tomorrow and a quick heroic raid. If I pop 370 bag maybe the reward will increase.
stray hatch
Can someone give me a just basic understanding of pooling energy for Toxic Blade? I'm gonna switch back to it since i sim higher with it, but I apparently am a bad kid at knowing when to use it.
young meteor
Your goal is to get as many envs off as possible once you pop it. So try to have refreshed bleeds, 3+ combo pots and then sit on your energy while it pools close to 170. Pop TB and then I mut to 4+ cp and then env.
mint oar
young meteor
I'm not sure if that's the most optimal but that's what I do
stray hatch
Gotcha, so basically just sit and don't even mutilate then pop TB and go to town?
I have a hard time sitting idle and not doing anything at times
young meteor
It could be 3+ env. It used to be at one point but I think it's 4 now.
stray hatch
3+ Combo Point Envenoms?
Also, with EP is it best to drop 2 CP finishers to keep the buff active 100% of the time?
pastel wasp
the better azurite trait items comes from mythic +
not WQs
unless youre lucky enough to get the gonk outrunner ones lol
torpid jackal
austere scarab
Is there a reason poison bomb procs off of abilities that aren't Rupture / Envenom that isn't reflected in the tooltip?
rigid monolith
@austere scarab That should not happen
modest badge
is SS still a good pve trait to have?
rigid monolith
With what are they proccing then ?
keen remnant
bounty to implement sin in WoWAnalyzer is $100
rigid monolith
@modest badge yes
@modest badge Still best in M+ and nice to have in raids (1 that is)
austere scarab
@rigid monolith looks like fan or mutilate to me
I've popped them opening on things
rigid monolith
That is deffinetly not supposed to happen
if you open with garotte rupture like u shouold
it can proc from ur 3 cp rupture
@modest badge we still roll 3 SS in M+ cause you can kind of abuse it
!ss
light kestrel
I got a 370 chest w/ DD
rigid monolith
I personally roll with 1 Archive, 1 SS and 1 DD in raids
strange python
SS falls off on higher keys
rigid monolith
SS is really nice to have in the opener and vanish. The extra CBP's are cool
@strange python true
cause you cant "abuse" it
rigid monolith
Go 3 SS, and you will probably do more overall dmg
with a bit suffering on boss damage
rigid monolith
That is decent
rigid monolith
That also depends on the ilvl of your SS azerite though
probably wont be benefitable if u replace 370 archive with 345 SS
plain cairn
Would you replace 385 blightborne infusion for 340 ss?
rigid monolith
Don't think so
Maybe, really maybe in M+
but not in raids
But itis really situational
errant mauve
unless im simming shit wrong... i do more dps with DD sharpened blades (which i fucking hate) and scent which i dont mind at all
plain cairn
Yeah i use the 385 in raid but im never sure for m+
shrewd bane
in mm+ do you play with crimson or poison bomb ?
rigid monolith
Have you any other SS in ur azerite? then i'd say use BB.
plain cairn
Yeah i got fetid chest in 355
rigid monolith
@shrewd bane currently with Crimson, cause of fortified trait. Playing Poison bomb on Tyranical weeks.
hazy sphinx
Would the APL tell me when I'm vanishing?
shrewd bane
so in mm+, on packs, 3 garrot + crimsot and a few raptures
then exsanguinate
and focus one ?
hardy veldt
i feel like you should take tb over exang
steel wagon
i got double dose from my 370 emisarry
simple gulch
anyone know what are the best assa pvp talents?
rigid monolith
@shrewd bane always do 3 garotte. Then Crimsontempest. That is the opener. The rest depens on the priority of target and whether they live long enough to get all the benefit from rupture
hardy veldt
@simple gulch i like doing 1 ss and 2 rupture for 3s
shrewd bane
so i'm not sure when i need to use it to get the max benefit on it
simple gulch
talents not traits
shrewd bane
i nede to get my crimson on it
hardy veldt
oh
shrewd bane
since crimsot = bleeding
hardy veldt
1,2,3,3,1,2,1
simple gulch
pvp ones
rigid monolith
with exsanguinatie in M+ would go garotte garotte garotte , Ctempest, get 5 cp and rupture + exs on prio target. Also apply last garotte of the 3 on your prio target, so it gets most benefit from exs
hardy veldt
swap creeping for smoke or mobility
hardy veldt
depends on comp
smoke sometimes
sprint if against frost mage
i run smoke 95% of time in rmp
rigid monolith
Maybe better to ask these questions in pvp, not sure though
simple gulch
what is smoke for?
hardy veldt
but im also just 1800
simple gulch
well I asked twice but no one answered
hardy veldt
because there are multiple guides pinned
and if you scroll back, you'll see the same questions 10x
simple gulch
isn't it only pve guide tho
hazy sphinx
Anyoine here play master assasin and can help me with some quick questions
rigid monolith
@simple gulch there are only like 2 people answering and 30 asking, so that should not come as a surprise
simple gulch
I saw that, it doesn't include the pvp talents
hazy sphinx
Box what do you want to know
hardy veldt
2nd google result haha
hazy sphinx
the arena talents?
hazy sphinx
1233121 for burst
hardy veldt
hahaha you're good man
simple gulch
ty
hardy veldt
grats
spice surge
Been running around with my 360 one forever
compact bolt
So simming 40s fight with 3 mobs it shows my 340 SS shoulders over my 370 SoB shoulder, is it still that good?
marsh bloom
SS is amazing
simple gulch
When is the best time to use Smoke bomb?
marsh bloom
When you're trying to kill
hardy veldt
kill pressure
typically with 6 sec kidney with no trinket
but sometimes can be used other ways
but yeah its to force kill
creeping poision is also decent and much easier to properly utilize
whats ur rating?
hardy veldt
alright. id hop over to pvp honesly
spice surge
Creeping isnt very good though, mind numbing is better if there is atleast one caster. But this prob belongs to #pvp
simple gulch
lets go over to pvp then if yall dont mind
quasi ledge
CC Healer > CC about to end > 5 combo Kidney kill target with Smoke Bomb. Essentially another CC on the healer because they can't cast on your target for 5 seconds
placid elbow
What is the rotation again for MA? lol
somber otter
Raidbots says Runious bolt + sharpened blades over SS and tidal surge (114 dps difference) worth?
quasi ledge
Have MfD up so after your Kidney you Mutilate twice, Envenom, MfD, Envenom
quasi ledge
Put it up just before you Kidney
Purely ideal scenario which doesn't happen most of the time. Will be fine to Toxic Blade inside the Kidney/Bomb, though
jagged sigil
They fixed SS REJOICE
jagged sigil
Yeeeeeeee!
opaque junco
sterile ocean
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a4LZpdZARvLp1ojpZuRvhs did they buff dooms wake?
hardy veldt
awdooms has always been good
fiery bobcat
yo stupid question but how does rotation/opener change without SS?
lucid bolt
hey guys swhats up with emeissary caches? how come some people get 370 and some people get 355 or 340?
lucid bolt
i heard sosme folks sover 370 are showing 355 though
delicate imp
When was this ?
slate dust
Probably an upgrade due to Azerite trait 
marsh bloom
How do you sim for ghuun 😦
opaque junco
ghuun sims u 
hollow cloud
slate dust
I went assassin last night instead of outlaw for m+
Pretty sure I messed my rotation up a million times but pretty fun
Safe to say CT and pb are interchangeable depending on dungeon and pull sizes?
slate dust
Not pb and jelly yo
I just ran toxic blade and poison bomb last night. Assume I should give exsang and CT a go
With 2x ss and 1 x sob
crimson sedge
Hey guys when the guide saysGarrote, if the target will live long enough Rupture, if the target will live long enough how long is "long enough?"
like a full duration>?
royal lantern
dont do garrote when the target is at 2%hp
crimson sedge
wb if they would survive say like 5 seconds?
spice surge
More like 8-10
slate dust
Unless if that 2% is going to take you 10 seconds cause you're the omly dps alive
crimson sedge
more than 8-10. ok thanks eleem
pastel vault
holding exsang for galecallers is a dps loss right
you'll lose 1 exsang before 2nd vendetta?
spice surge
Yes
You should however hold your third galecaller for 2.25ish
When it lines up with vendetta, vanish and exsang
pastel vault
yea ok
winter fog
any tips for useful nameplates in m+?
i'm feeling overwhelmed by my cluttered nameplates and cant really see the enemy models anymore to not see in front of several cleaves etc
crimson sedge
when you use exsanguinate do u just use it when you have both rupture and garrote up? and how does it work do i not want to refresh because the dots tick harder?
spice surge
As high duration dots as possible and yes, you do let them run out completely and not refresh them
lucid bolt
\o\
crimson sedge
thank you eleem
again lol
sorry bout the all the questions couldnt really find the answer in the raven holdt guide
spiral snow
yo guys, is the class mount still obtainable?
lilac lily
I think so
slate dust
Should be. Only things not are mage tower appearances
spiral snow
did the broken shore 15 chapters, got the entire rogue campaign done, no quest to advance pops 😦
spice light
so i played my rogue till 351 as sub but now i wanna swap to assa, but dont have shrouded suffocation once in my traits. is assa viable without that trait or should i farm those pieces?
hybrid chasm
spiral snow
mandatory in Mythic+ though to have SS
spice light
playing m+ most likely
spiral snow
I did, I have the shadowblade title 😦
strange python
the legion campaign?
slate dust
Class mount
slate dust
Sounds like you missed something somewhere. Or you already have a step and need to follow it
strange python
Maybe he doesnt have legion flying
cuz it was needed
does a standard sim have execute phase? trying to see how much more execute dmg blindside would be but the damage graph doesnt seem to change, is it just not that big of a dps increase even for execute phase?
think so
sim and check apl
surprisingly its not a massive simdps loss to pick blindside, could be useful for something like ghuun, even though it wouldnt smash the logs
it does use blindside on execute phase
hazy sphinx
on mythic zekvoz
should i be spamming CT
or fan of knives
envenoms
strange python
alright
hazy sphinx
should I just spam CTs on adds?
spiral snow
I have legtion flying though :-?
I'll try to do the nightborne questline to unlock quests with them, maybe that will fix it, idk
this char was created in bfa
spice iron
at +2 or more targets to you stop mutilate and do fok instead?
strange python
no
round harbor
@hazy sphinx u should be spamming blade flurry :dab:
fading hearth
so...if i sim for agility being .10 higher than haste should i just stick all agil gems in?
strange python
u can only have 1 agil gem
fading hearth
ah
round harbor
@spice light sin is viable without SS traits. They are good but really only excel in m+ where u get to stealth all the time
leaden seal
I have 22% mastery / 26% crit / 18.5% haste
in assa. I'm simming 16k st
and my stat weight is prioritizing haste, but should i still be getting mastery up?
leaden seal
im main outlaw, so i'm just switching to assa
I pulled 14.3k dps on H taloc
but the other two assassin rogues are saying i need more mastery
strange python
14.3k
leaden seal
whats good in st?
hazy sphinx
anyone?
leaden seal
is 14k good
hazy sphinx
That has done mythic zekvoz? should i be spamming CT
or fan of knives and sprttead the ruptures?
strange python
14.3k is like top 100 Heroic logs
leaden seal
it was a top 200 parse
frigid sleet
keep vanish for adds, triple garrote & spam CT until you have to leave
hazy sphinx
master assasin
leaden seal
i only pulled 14k flat when i gemmed for mastery so i guess they are bad?
spiral snow
btw fixed the class mount issue, the quest didn't show up on the map, I had to search for the guy on deliverance point myself lmao
frigid sleet
then you wont do much for adds, just focus the caster
strange python
9 haste enchants rofl
leaden seal
i thoguht my garrot is supposed to be higher than my envenom dmg
strange python
why would it
frigid sleet
why would you assume that when you're not using sub & SS
plain cairn
guyz
i only got 1 SS now... and i could remove it (355 SS) for a laser matrix 370
what d'you think ? 😮
imma sim but i want your input
leaden seal
oh yeah. My laser matrix sims 600 dmg higher than poison wire, even with i have another origination piece.
For ST
frigid sleet
if the lose is minimal I personnaly like to keep one SS
strange python
not for m+
frigid sleet
for raiding that is ofc
plain cairn
yeah im not sure changing to lose all my SS mid-raid haha
strange python
no
archive / laser +2DD if toxic blade
considering they all max ilvl
Just sim
leaden seal
but srit haste is frone for ST?
fine*
Crist haste is fine for ST? **
I can't keyboard.
strange python
Stat weights
leaden seal
rip
vocal harbor
is there any way to see boss wipe counter while not in the raid?
i killed heroic ghuun earlier today and i'm curious now to see how many attempts it was
harsh glacier
been fixed for like a week dude
harsh glacier
Well, yeah they hotfixed it 😃
shrewd bane
apparently!!
dim yacht
anyone know anything about this trait? its not on bloodmallet at all, im guessing because in the past its only been available at 340 ilvl max
but with the emissary update, we can get it at 370 now
visual token
Lul
daring imp
well yea i mean given the description obviously it procs less on pve* than on pvp
dim yacht
yeah, but battlefield precision is a pvp talent, and its still not a horrid talent in pve
daring imp
test it out
check its uptime over the course of 10min
do it two, three times
then we'll see
lone junco
nb
dim yacht
yeah ill check out the proc rate when i got time
lone junco
im 364, so ill just take some shitter trinket from heroic this week to bump me over.
dim yacht
it has potential, never know
dim yacht
if youre alliance, we get warfront soon
and 370
if it helps any, im 372 and got 370 cache. might be 370 required for all we know
slate dust
The reqs are beta af
frigid sleet
when did this fix got pushed ?
slate dust
No idea why they don't release the algorithm so people can just target that
Last night
frigid sleet
cant wait to have one, alliance EU got one some days ago I guess we wont see one for some day now
prime stirrup
whats rotation with SB? just use when it caps at 30?
daring imp
yea
willow cypress
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
silent fossil
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iZwN38MPxjKxa1PdxauqAV clean 400 dps inc from new emissary
stone quartz
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
opal mesa
I made some custom WA strings for some azerite traits if anyone wants them
guttripper, overwhleming power, and blood rite proc tracking
cerulean anchor
strange python
yup
loud niche
so, my tiny electromental in a jar (375) and dark moon deck is simming at 1.5% more dps than my azerokk's resonating heart (380) and electromental in a jar (375)?
can anyone explain why..?
civic palm
Yeah some trinkets are worse than others.
plain thistle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
loud niche
darkmoon deck is a better trinket than a 380 heart? 0_0
strange python
heart is good for m+
prime stirrup
only way you beat fathoms is with galecallers/loaded dice/dead eye glass pretty much
loud niche
i also have a 365 dice, it sims slightly worse than the jar/deck combo
and a 370 spyglass
dim yacht
lions guile is pretty good too i think
prime stirrup
my 380 spyglass simmed worse than my 355 galecallers
loud niche
OOF
loud niche
me or shanksy?
strange python
shanj
loud niche
wait so is the jar better than spyglass? herodamage and bloodmallet have it as bad
strange python
sim it
frigid sleet
^ listen to the pirate
prime stirrup
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vGPmPn3SPRVLqhDxCpjy4T vs https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4nhX3eVdZKMFiFyAWnuvjx
peak flame
Lucklss 😍
prime stirrup
hell that 355 socketed galecallers simmed higher than 385 m taloc trinket. I finally replaced that 355 gc with a 375gc
prime stirrup
with next weeks RA i sim at 16.4k im 377 ilvl
split grail
Question: Ravenholdt.net says SS is top trait but herodamage says archive. Answer?
thorn pasture
What dungs do you guys pick poison bomb over Crimson Tempest usually or is it more comp based? I played it in kings rest and temple so far
strange python
@split grail because SS is still top for m+
prime stirrup
I've been picking pb over CT in any 10+
gloomy wadi
Anyone pro with macros,
prime stirrup
This week that is. When it's teeming I'll go back to ct
gloomy wadi
Can someone pro with macros edit mine : #showtooltip
/cast Vendetta
/use 14
/cast [talent6/3]Exsanguinate
Exsanguinate doesn't trigger
prime stirrup
Won't work without an add-on like gse3
amber quail
I pref CT overall. In >10 also reduce the risk of CCbroken and is controllable.
solar bramble
how usable is it to go with 1-2 poisoned wire traits. and use garrote nearly on cd (no ss traits to get messed with) garrote > mutilate for auto 5.
@gloomy wadi you'd need a castsequence macro to have them paired. and at that point you may as well just cast them normally
um . . . apparently it's buffing 2 mutilates
nimble tartan
any high-ish level rogues playing meticulous scheming trait? sims super high for me rn want to know ur feelings about it b4 trying it out in raid tomorrow
and by super high i mean it sims 30dps higher than archive of the titans 370 @385 meticulous kkona7
solar bramble
so the ilvl is what's making it better. don't drop archive if you don't have any other source of generating reorigination ray
arra;y*
nimble tartan
ye i know im more asking if anyone who has played it whether its worth the hassle of managing it, im thinking prob not for 30 dps
molten moon
hey guys, relatively new to raidbots....i use default settings to sim my ST raid spec, but turn off array to sim outside the raid. What settings do you use to sim M+?
vapid oracle
theres a dropdown menu you can set the stacks of array to 0
molten moon
I do that to sim outside the raid. But I'm just curious if people sim their M+ by changing to multiple targets?
final stone
just got a 370 DD but it does not sim better than my 385 SS
mystic wraith
When you Exsanguinate with Garrote and Rupture, do we override at pandemic or let it finish then reapply the Dots?
solar bramble
you pandemic then ensanguinate. and wait for the buffs to fully fall off before reapplication
mystic wraith
This means we treat it as if it’s empowered garrote/ruptures yah?
solar bramble
prettysure the rotation is setup so that you get a pandemic just before hand
it just bleeds out twice as fast. generally you want every other one under vendetta.
mystic wraith
Basically pandemic the Dots, then exsang, envenoms untill the dots drop and continue yah.
solar bramble
don't go out of your way to pandemic. if you just apply rupture or garrote, you don't need to instantly pandemic. do it when you feel it lines up the best with how you're playing
theirs a guide on the rotation on ravenholdt
i don't know the specific reasons why. so i can't theorycraft that far
tells you exactly when to ensang
mystic wraith
Now, how does Exsang perform better than TB then? Exsang only makes the dots ticks faster, while cutting their time in half (bursting damage) while TB, when U apply it there’s damage and every envenom applied during TB gets extra damage.
This question is for Single Target.
daring iron
Exams is only really worth with ss
Exang
Like minimum 2
Otherwise tb just sims better generally
mystic wraith
I can understand if you have 5 adds with empowered garrotes, Crimson Tempest and Rupts + Exsang = GG
indigo plume
It ticking faster means it runs out faster meaning you need to reapply it sooner than you would, would lead to more overall casts of rupt/garrote
daring iron
Plus it gives a burst of energy
Exang is only one target
Doesn’t affect every bleed
edgy plover
The best stats for m+ are Haste and Mastery right?
tender frost
crit mast
civic palm
C/M
tender frost
crit haste for raid
edgy plover
Alrighty thanks a ton guys
civic palm
Should have two sets.
prime stirrup
exsang sims higher for me than tb with 1x SS so its going to vary person to person
civic palm
SS/Scent/etc. C/M for Dungeons.
Item Level C/H for Raids
real night
What's the optimal way to use galecaller? Before or after applying garrote/rupture? Or it doesn't matter?
gaunt isle
https://youtu.be/vr8SEKTqKro?t=272
anyone know what the assa rogue is doing here to pull such insane dps? is it the new trait we are getting?
4:32 timestamp is a good indication
must be a fight mechanic or something now that i think about it, since it jumps up by a lot at certain times
civic palm
It's using Toxic Blade + canister from fight.
pastel vault
use with vendetta on pull
grim mason
ok I;ve been doing that
feel like I should be doing more
zek and i had wrong gear on
slate dust
The item that drops does damage to the boss @gaunt isle
Certain percentage of health
Assume the rogue used the item hence the huge chunk taken and meter blow up
gaunt isle
ah, got really confused there for a second
was like "damn, is the new trait really that crazy?" but couldnt believe it so had to ask
slate dust
Afflock still strong af for st in 8.1 though
woeful cipher
anyone have any Idea why a 370 dooms wake is simming lower than 380 cannonball runner/355 galecallers boon despite being listed higher? is it because i'm already 35% mastery?
solemn shard
Are you running MA?
molten moon
Any idea why my 370 ss is simming so terribly compared to my other gear on 3+ targets? I'd assume shroud should be chosen over poisoned wire...
rancid sedge
is it worth using a 340 with suffocated over a 370 with terrible azerites?
woeful cipher
@solemn shard assume this means master assassin, if so no I am running subterfuge at the moment
granite berry
I'm a bit behind, but how did the SS hotfix from a few days ago work? Did it fix the bug where the SS-buffed garrote would stop if garrote was used before it ran out completely?
nevermind, checked pins
open hazel
strange python
Boss Targets
3
tacit wing
Mmm
strange python
plain cairn
i replaced my 355 fetid chest for the 370 from ghuun tonight. Now without SS trait master assasin and TB sims higher ! is there a big difference in the rotation guyz ?
plain cairn
is it me or it peak lower ?
strange python
well setup is the same, just vanish before vendetta burst
g - m -r - v - tb - and do ham
vanish after vendetta and before tb
my first hotfixed 370 azerite piece from wq is the worst in the game
with ladt gift on it
last
woeful cipher
still confused how my 370 dooms wake is simming lower than 355 galecallers boon...anyone have potential explanations? im 35% mastery, only thing I can imagine is messing with it
woeful cipher
been using TB, sims currently have boon and a 380 cannonball runner better than the wake, just a bit confused as everywhere ive looked has the wake BIS
slate dust
355 have a socket?
woeful cipher
nope
slate dust
No idea lol
modest badge
is the SS trait still bugged?
onyx rock
Maybe the sims are lying. Maybe they were never right and we all use totally wrong gear... 🤷
lethal swallow
it sims better, because with your gear, your current stats etc, IT IS BETTER
BIS is a baseline, that baseline changes depending on so many things having to do with gearing, stats, etc
There is no explanation other than, it's currently better for you via maths
viscid pier
Got 370 boon and 370 wake, but since they are both on use and cant lineup because of 15 sec cd from popping one, is it better for me to run only 1 and a proc trinket like my 375 deadeye spyglass or 355 fathoms?
lethal swallow
onyx rock
Maybe Math is a lie
viscid pier
i have simmed just feels weird having them not being able to overlap is why i was asking for input is all.
cunning needle
turns out thats the way the dice rolls
unreal minnow
cunning needle
you exsang on cooldown and you GCB on cooldown
except when youre holding onto GCB
to sync with your next vendetta + exsang
viscid pier
gotcha
cunning needle
if you go to full html report -> action priority list -> sample sequence table