could've sworn I did it on M0 but guess not
#assassination
daring imp
nah
spice frost
does battlefrield precision sim correctly for pve. currently wearing 340 shoulders, the 355 conquest reward has it and sim says its a 240 dps increase
marsh bloom
I can't get into heroic only 353
marsh bloom
lol
marsh bloom
only accept 370+?
daring imp
i got a monk back in legion almost full heroic gear like that in a week and a half
nah you get the 360's that link something decent
you can probably faceroll stuff until zek voz
make sure to not invite bad guys tho
or you won't be able to kick them at will, people will check their deeps and find yours
marsh bloom
With the fetid chesfg
I have the array from the normal chest so do I pick garrote or the archive of the titans?
cause like there both good for thereown reasons
daring imp
i say garrote for m+
you will wish that you have high ilvl shrouded suffocations later
marsh bloom
Is the damage really that good?
marsh bloom
details?
daring imp
with 3xx SS
marsh bloom
skada?
marsh bloom
welp nvm
daring imp
you don't have to use CT while you don't have SS's tho, just do your best to keep ruptures up and envenoms rolling here and there so pb procs frequently
marsh bloom
Why is CT better with SS?
daring imp
i mean, one of the reasons ss helps out ct a bit is the extra cp on garrotes
marsh bloom
oh I see
daring imp
you get 3cp per garrote
then you can pop a 5cp ct right after popping the three garrotes
marsh bloom
so you just triple garrote anyway?
daring imp
that guarantees the ct will run its full duration
if it's cast that early
if you take the time to put up a few ruptures here or there mobs will already be dying
and you won't fully benefit of its dot
ct is more micromanagement for a small increase in overall deeps
if played wrong it will just hurt your overall dmg
'cuz you'll be too starved by not having enough bleeds to keep your energy up
marsh bloom
yea I really felt that lol
like wow I can't do shit
but hey atleast I have CT up
FoK at 3+?
or 4+?
daring imp
what you should aim is always having 4~5 bleeds spread around all mobs you're hitting all the time
being garrote or rupture
ct doesn't exactly count as bleed since it doesn't return energy on its ticks
spare cloud
marsh bloom
oh I Didn't realize garrote also gives energy
daring imp
it does
marsh bloom
oh but only rupture returns energy oh ok
daring imp
no no, rupture and garrote returns energy
by having 4~5 of those up you can pretty much sustain a fok spam
marsh bloom
does stats on gear matter in pvp?
daring imp
well yes
civic palm
daring imp
they changed that
now the game tries to somehow balance your damage based on your ilvl and opponent ilvl, some bullshit like that, dunno how exactly
oh yeah, mobs that die with rupture on them will return instantly the energy they'd return as if they have run the full duration
not garrote tho
marsh bloom
Will it give you more energy back if you rupture an enemy thats about to die?
shit it would
lol
daring imp
well you shouldn't rupture an enemy that's about to die unless you're really really really starved for energy like "omg i really need energy now"
marsh bloom
Well like in pvp
daring imp
ideally you only rupture stuff that will run its full duration, or atleast close to its full duration
see, rupture won't return MORE energy than it's intended to do
like, if it dies in full duration, a full duration is what, 12 ticks? it'll return you 12x7 = 84 energy
marsh bloom
how often does rupture dedal damage?
daring imp
if it dies in half full duration, it's 6 ticks, it'll return you 42 energy
depends on your haste
haste makes ticks tick faster
10% makes your rupture tick 1.8s instead of 2.0s
haste is better for single target dmg/pressure
not that good for aoe/multitarget where you have many dots rolling
daring imp
no worries 😛
harsh glacier
reckon 2x ss and 1x sob with the sob being ilvl 370 is better than 3x ss at ilvl 340?
daring imp
i really dunno, but on fortified weeks definitely worth it to try, 'cuz you'll benefit more from sob after the initial garrotes fade away
harsh glacier
yeah, was thinking that too
daring imp
it's what, 100 agi per target?
daring imp
5 targets should give almost 600, so definitely worth it to try atleast
daring imp
my guild started back in 355's
marsh bloom
FoK 3+ or 4+?
daring imp
3+
river quarry
Whats the most optimal priority for 3-5+ targets with crimson temp? 3x Garrote > Rupture >Exsanguinate> FoK 4-5 > Crimson then envenom?
Or keep putting ruptures up & refreshing crimson at 2-3s?
cunning needle
i thought FoK is 4+
2 you muti both
3 you still muti and FoK to reapply poisons if needed
and only FoK at 4+
cunning needle
oh i think 3-5 targets you
g-g-g- ct
then either fok -> rupture or muti rupture
cunning needle
that part im not too sure, i personally apply ruptures to all targets
as long its more than a 3cp rupture
river quarry
Want to max my dmg out
cunning needle
because the dps is the same
just less energy per cp efficient
but i'm no expert
river quarry
I feel multiple rupture is good for bolster
cunning needle
yeah you want to cleave targets down equally
like if it's 3 targets, you can easily have rutpures up on all 3 targets
river quarry
Unless you have a high health mob in the pack
river quarry
Then envenom to get it lower
frosty gyro
Probably look at some logs
river quarry
M+ logs?
frosty gyro
idk if ggg>ct is even right
frosty gyro
might be more like ggg>r>fok>ct
frosty gyro
Who knows tbh
cunning needle
^
frosty gyro
that wrecks your energy
river quarry
Yeah i cant even seem to sus what stats would be best. Heard ppl stack crit/mast and seen people say 20% haste too.
cunning needle
just do feelycraft
frosty gyro
might not be right
steep obsidian
do many people even bother to play ct in dungeons?
cunning needle
i stack crit/mastery and keep 10% haste
steep obsidian
it seems mediocre to me
river quarry
Crimson tempest seems strong in high keys
cunning needle
yeah it's a cause of endless discussion
daring imp
the more the pack stays alive, the more effective ct is
frosty gyro
Well this guy seems to think rupture is the best option 🤔
steep obsidian
in dungeons im normally focusing down a prio mob rather then aoe padding most times anyway
i guess it depends on comp
frosty gyro
That's in a freehold 15 on what I'm assuming is the 4 mob pack before 1st boss
daring imp
that's the thing
river quarry
I use vigor
daring imp
you never "aoe pad" on a m+ while killing trash
cunning needle
4 FoK to get a rupture 🤢
cunning needle
depends tbh
daring imp
i mean the pad that you are comparing as in raiding
cunning needle
eg bolstering you want everything to die evenly
daring imp
like "mindless and useless dps"
a.k.a. dps'ing ghuun tentacles on p1 or ghuun itself
stuff like that
steep obsidian
cept boralus where there are a bunch of low hp mobs a a few high hp ones
¯_(ツ)_/¯
daring imp
well that one you can't even "pad" with ct
because mobs need to be alive for it otb effective
river quarry
Aoe pad would be small low hp adds your ranged could burst down easily
frosty gyro
@daring imp gotta pad on ghuun tentacles because they're counted in logs for some dumb reason
cunning needle
i thought warcraft logs doesnt count that
steep obsidian
i only done up to like an 11 maybe it gets really good at higher keys
frosty gyro
It does
cunning needle
and damage on ghun while it reheals
frosty gyro
Only things that don't get counted are cysts and ghuun while he has blood shield
cunning needle
ahhhh
daring imp
shrine of the storm
frosty gyro
Waycrest?
daring imp
demon hunters go crazy with fel barrages there 
steep obsidian
yeh its like i run with a bh most times so ct seems kinda pointless
daring imp
freehold 1st pack if you shroud to 1st boss
frosty gyro
Trying to look at logs on high keys to see how they play with CT opening
steep obsidian
dh
river quarry
I dont like crimson tempest on siege of boralus this week tho
frosty gyro
Yeah I was thinking freehold but there's usually an infested there
cunning needle
maybe shrine of seth?
river quarry
Kinda
cunning needle
thats got 3 targets at the start?
daring imp
not sure that pack right before 1st boss has infested ever
river quarry
Lotta low hp mobs that just bolster big add
frosty gyro
one of them is infested usually 🤔
daring imp
i don't remember
frosty gyro
It does
frosty gyro
People usually skip to boss
daring imp
well
cunning needle
dont they clear the bottom first though
steep obsidian
its so nice not having to fucking stress about the ss bug now
fuck that was annoying
cunning needle
"oh whoops i was too late to cast my 3rd garrote. Guess I'll do 0 damage now"
frosty gyro
This russian guy making it hard to check CT logs 🤔
I mean you can just cast the 3rd one unbuffed
If you mess up
It's nice
daring imp
literally that same guy
frosty gyro
It would be really nice if you couldn't overwrite ss garrote with normal garrote though for those times when I fat finger garrote in my opener after hitting vendetta
daring imp
freehold
he uses it
a 15 he did
which one is that
which dg
he doesn't run ss for m+ 😮
daring imp
he doesn't run ss's for m+
cunning needle
wait what? really
river quarry
Actually looking at logs my overall dps does match up with highest logs
Dunno why I got people saying if it isnt 16-17k overall its bad
daring imp
logs show lower dps than ingame
ingame reports* do not take into account the time spent traveling between packs
logs do
river quarry
Ahh true.
river quarry
Yikes see I can't reach that is he stacking crit mast?
river quarry
Or just huge pulls?
river quarry
I was looking at that b4 u linked funny enough
frosty gyro
Hard to tell what's better these guys are so inconsistent 🤔
One pack they go ggg>r>fok>fok>ct and the next they go gggg>ct
river quarry
I feel like itd more their pulls/tanks
frosty gyro
or ggg>ct>fok>r
daring imp
if fok gives too many cps
river quarry
For their overall
frosty gyro
no not that guy
looking at a different guy
who hass 2 ss
in this run he has a ggg>ct a ggg>r>fok>fok>ct a gggg>r and a gggg>ct
Just like ???
frosty gyro
Or maybe they;'re just inconsistent in the skill order they use
heavy trail
Pullsize/prioritytarget etc taken into account?
daring imp
no clue
i just know that there isn't "padding" on m+, when on such high keys every trash pack being killed faster counts
atleast not padding like people refer to as in raiding
frosty gyro
Thius other guy seems to do ggg>r every time
river quarry
They must be doing big pulls to reach 18k dps.
frosty gyro
ALthough it's KR so there's like no 4 mob packs
river quarry
Cause so many grps im in dont and I can't reach 18k overall maybe 15k if they dont go full pussy on pulls
river quarry
Yea so my dps isnt "bad" then?
daring imp
you're fine @_@"
river quarry
I had a viewer all hurdur u aint doin 17k dps overall ur dmg bad
Im like how do i on 2-3 adds every pull this tanks pulling ?_?
daring imp
if you can find yourself into a group that does 5~6 mobs per pull and those last about 1min you're good for those 16~18k dps
of course not every pull
frosty gyro
Well here's another guy that really likes ggg>ct
daring imp
some will be lower but generally speaking that much will net you 16~18k
river quarry
Yeah i think the fact i pug limits me depending on tank/healer
daring imp
that ends up happening, yes
river quarry
I had one guy pulling 1 add at a time asking for entire packs to be cc'd
daring imp
you don't find often enough +10 pugs with GOOD people
river quarry
Lmao.
daring imp
only with sigh good people
i had two tanks today
they were begging for us to cc the packs on KR
so i thought "ok must be on the later ones where there's like 4~5 mobs"
hell nah the 2nd one with a hexer and a berserker? really fam?
river quarry
Well my guildies see my dps saying it isn't high enough to push im like yeah but im doing the same shit as these other rogues going 18k dps how can I incresse when the pulls are so small
daring imp
they prepot on trash pulls too
river quarry
Think its just that oh this rogue did this so you must
river quarry
When they don't take into account all the variables
daring imp
i sent seliathan's stream to a buddy of mine that told me my deeps was huge in dgs ( he was a fresh 120 rogue )
oh boi did he start teasing me afterwards
frosty gyro
Descry what's your raider io?
river quarry
I pug so the brain tends to slack off due to how zzz pufs usually are.
955 afaik
Havent done a temple or itvwould be 1050
daring imp
m+ reloe weakaura?
river quarry
Mmnbut what about trash abilities
daring imp
now i just need to know which side the mobs are facing to ... tanks like to keep circling them around ...
they count trash mobs too
daring imp
i mostly use it for trash to be honest, except totems on kr, need that totem weakaura to see explosive from afar
frosty gyro
Just a rundown of the whole dungeon trash: beginning has stealth guys (just stay behind tank) and archer guys that do a powershot frontal attack don't stand in their line of fire. After that is snakes that make dust clouds you can't hit things in dust clouds. After that is fathless tenders that heal need to kick/stun and the other guys that cast a sucide mbomb gotta burst them when low. After that nothing really does anything special just don't stand in shit untilyou get to heart guardians and plague doctors. Focus heart guardians they wreck tank and stun snake charm from plague doctors.
That's like the whole dungeon
Aside from a bumch of trash that has really obvious mechanics that you don't do anything sopecial for
ruby idol
Yes temple is free this week
silk carbon
Almost +1d a 11 temple yday
river quarry
Otherwise it doesnt give any good loot
ruby idol
Scuffed the living fuck out of a 15 and still timed
river quarry
Usually why i avoid temple
silk carbon
tank started last boss when our healer only had 2% mana though
mistake that ate all our remaining time
daring imp
still rocking pb everytime, @ruby idol ?
ruby idol
Nah
frosty gyro
Yeah I only run Shrine/KR/SoB/Freehold/Waycrest at this point
daring imp
ct-team now? 😛
frosty gyro
Everything else is dumpster loot
ruby idol
When I have to play sin ya
river quarry
Now talk for best trinkets?
daring imp
i ran with an outlul earlier and he wrecked me, i ended up shy of 14k dps and he was ~16k overall
frosty gyro
Shrine/Freehold are where trinkets are at. SoB isn't too bad either
daring imp
fml
frosty gyro
What dungeon?
ruby idol
Overall damage is so useless to like measure yourself based on this week
daring imp
freehold
daring imp
why on fortified it would be useless? @_@"
ruby idol
cause its bolstering
river quarry
I thought azerokk would buff crim significantly assuming it procs
ruby idol
and where your dmg is matters more than how much you do overall 😃
daring imp
well but it's like outlul was tailored to bolstering
your priority target always takes more dmg than everything else
Ç_ÇÇ
do you run sub on any dungeon?
sleek iron
Do you guys mfd in m+
frosty gyro
no
sleek iron
Should do gggr mfd exsang no?
daring imp
if even non ss fellas were running both ggg ct and ggg r there's no consensus lul
sleek iron
Ct not exsang
river quarry
Also is laser matrix not good?
frosty gyro
not really
frosty gyro
well I'm guessing you have the helm and chest with LM
daring imp
don't touch laser matrix for m+
frosty gyro
which basically means you're fucked
daring imp
fucking agro'ing offscreen
frosty gyro
no it doesn't
river quarry
Yikes...
frosty gyro
they fixed that ages ago
frosty gyro
what is the sin trait on your lm pieces?
river quarry
Ill have to check
raven mica
Well also consider the ilevel of the pieces that he has
raven mica
Cuz I'm stuck using unstable catalyst on all 3 specs because it's my 385
daring imp
another one 1 week ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKDMwb2stOQ&feature=youtu.be&t=68
frosty gyro
I think the shadows of zul minions are the problem there not lm
I mean it's lm but it only hits those guys
and if you have dispel they just die
frosty gyro
probably in combat + no cc
frosty gyro
you can have cced mobs in combat and lm wont hit them
river quarry
twist the knife on chest
frosty gyro
it's like ttk poison wire right
river quarry
I have a 385 helm with double dose
river quarry
so im fine for that
my shoulders are shrouded suff 340 ilv
garbo ilv but gotta use =/
frosty gyro
what's the alternative?
river quarry
yeah my chest is laser matrix/twist the knife
or I can use 360 ilv champion of azeroth
thats prob better im guessing
daring imp
what
daring imp
what azerite lvl is to unlock +5 ilvl on champions chcest?
frosty gyro
like 28?
river quarry
alternative to shoulders with shrouded suffocation? 355 ilv with archive of the titans or scent of blood.
daring imp
:X
river quarry
SB garbage?
So if I go with 355 shoulders I have 0 SS
But I'd have archive or scent of blood.
frosty gyro
Yeah SB used to be a really good trait that was better the more you had and was BiS ST at 3
So they decided a good nerf would be to make it way worse the more you had
river quarry
whats best then?
frosty gyro
So now it's complete shit no matter how many you have
river quarry
SS 340?
frosty gyro
DD
daring imp
would it be safe to assume ss gets worse the higher the key you do?
daring imp
but then there's mr. i dunno how to speak in russian rocking tidal & sb
frosty gyro
This guy running 2x SS in a +17 is running 2 340 pieces with SS
So yeah SS is pretty good
river quarry
and as for chest. yeah. laser matrix or twist the knife so im guessing im better off using 360 chest with champion of azeroth yea?
frosty gyro
Russian guy is an anomaly probably has crazy gear and a good team
daring imp
lul
river quarry
or would laser matrix > champion?
opaque tree
i think champion is better than lazer, assuming you're not taking long between pulls
strange hatch
Hey there. here a quite a lot ppl saying that 3xSS still should be top for M+ right?
So if I were to sim for my pieces, patchwork/6/40s never tells me to pick more than 1
given that on the other slots it would be 30 / 45 ilvl downgrade
rose dove
!ss
strange hatch
strange hatch
yep
exotic glen
my feelycraft would say go 2xss and 1 infusion
but i cant speak for how well the apl handles supposed "dungeons" yet
strange hatch
think I'll give it a shot
exotic glen
theorycrafters are working on a dungeon profile
strange hatch
at least this ID with bosses being no issue
exotic glen
@strange hatch
the apl only does 2 garrotes on opener
and it does rupture as well straight after, its been pretty tested that CT after garrotes is best
depending on targets ofc
i know that the apl doesnt like overcapping on combo points but come on
strange hatch
See, at some point I don't wanna overcomplicate things
given that sim/apl are only half the story
fringe phoenix
how worth is it to go crit/mastery for m+ like what frag said in his video for m+? I tried it earlier and felt super energy starved in a 10 to the point where my dps was suffering on bosses
strange hatch
like third mob you wanna garrote is being DK pulled away from you etc
fringe phoenix
and i'm running 3x ss
strange hatch
so it's a little finding the balance that works in most situations
strange python
@fringe phoenix i tried it. And it failed miserably. I did far more dps overall running my standard st gear and just ran CT
But tbh. I prefer PB most weeks and bring stronger trash aoe classes with me
exotic glen
its pretty accepted that crit > mastery is the way to go in m+
not just frag says so
fringe phoenix
@strange python yeah I don't get why he suggested going it really. I get the concept of bigger pulls being more energy from dots but it just didn't work out at all for me
steel geyser
How much ilvl are you guys ready to lose to get 3xSs for m+? I have 2x 385 and 1x370 piece with 1 SS 1 matrix and 1 archive.
My others SS traits are 355. Can't really Sim for m+ overall.
strange python
@steel geyser i drop my 3x 370 for 3 x 340 ss in m+
fringe phoenix
i drop 2x 370's to a 340 and 355 to get 3x SS in m+
marsh bloom
Ever pool as sin?
inner pecan
@steel geyser never use matrix in m+ it's dogshit
fringe phoenix
archive is pretty decent in m+ i think
inner pecan
I'd go 2x SS and 1x Archive unless your archive is the 370
strange python
@fringe phoenix to ensure 100% ep uptime
inner pecan
but you want 100% uptime during TB or Exsg
steel geyser
My 370 is matrix
inner pecan
ok so dump the matrix
steel geyser
I'll show u what piece I get
inner pecan
use 2x SS and 1x Archive
fringe phoenix
you can't get 100% uptime because of gcd? or just energy limitations
inner pecan
energy
fringe phoenix
so when using exsg mid fight (not talking opener here) it's optimal to pool energy to use another garrote and refresh rupture first then exsg?
marsh bloom
EXsg or tb?
inner pecan
yes you want max pandemic dots for exsg if possible @fringe phoenix
but it's a judgment call whether to just use max-duration dots or to refresh for max pandemic
exotic glen
is that just a generic question shitty rogue?
fringe phoenix
is there a weak aura to track pandemic on rupture and garrote?
exotic glen
go read on herodamage.com
hidden halo
340 SS helm, 370 Laser Matrix helm, or 385 shuriken toss helm 🤔
inner pecan
@fringe phoenix pandemic is just 30% of your dot duration
so it depends with how many CP you cast your Rupture
steel geyser
Ok so i'm on my bank. Here are the azerite pieces I have :
https://puu.sh/BHydu/fbc826164a.png
I realize I don't even have SS on head 340 T.T
fringe phoenix
so for exsg then for optimal pandemic mid fight would be to have garrote up, 5cp rupture, get 4cp, garrote again off cd, 5cp, pool energy, 5cp rupture, exsg?
fringe phoenix
like maybe i'm not getting something then
inner pecan
because you're wasting loads of CPs for just 30% pandemic
fringe phoenix
45 seconds into fight exsg comes back up what is optimal
harsh glacier
Think Speed is running 2x archive 1x ss
inner pecan
@fringe phoenix the optimal play would be to be at like 5-6 seconds left on garrote, 7 seconds left rupture ur sitting at 4CPs
then u garrote right there, that's max pandemic garrote, you rupture, exsg
Now you got max pandemic dots without casting back to back ruptures and wasting a huge amount of it
fringe phoenix
so pandemic works as 30% of total damage, not the remaining damage from the dot?
fringe phoenix
so you want to do it at 30% of the dot remaining to be optimal
inner pecan
yes
fringe phoenix
well cast 2nd garrote, and 2nd rupture for rupture's timer that is
okay i get it now
inner pecan
or as close to 30% is fine
fringe phoenix
thanks
inner pecan
Like if you do it at 40-50% remaining it's okay
just to set up Exsg, not outside of that
inner pecan
or just refresh at any time under 30% duration
fringe phoenix
ok
inner pecan
you only need to let empowered garrotes or Exsg dots fall off fully
fringe phoenix
makes sense just as long as 100% uptime
inner pecan
but let's say you did a Rupture, build up, Rupture, Exsg thing like you said
you're Rupturing at like 95% duration instead of 30% duration
fringe phoenix
yeah which is why on opener we wait for garrote to fall off completely before vanish into double garrote
inner pecan
so you just wasted 65% of a rupture basically
which is 3.25 CPs
so u just waste 3.25 CPs for free if u do that
fringe phoenix
i see
ionic charm
the only reason you wait for opening garrote to fall of completely is because of exsang haste snapshots. There is no other reason for dots to drop off other than exsang. In fact, you want them not to fall completely off
inner pecan
what?
refreshing an Subterfuge garrote with a normal garrote overwrites
so you lose 80% garrote dmg
for 30% of the duration
if you pandemic it
that's a dps loss
same thing goes for Nightstalker Ruptures btw
ionic charm
I was trying to clarify that he didnt want dots to drop off, because earlier he mentioned having ruptures dropping off. Not overwriting empowered dots is rule #1 of the spec, I figured at least that was known.
inner pecan
right but saying the only reason is Exsg is wrong
that's why I said "you only need to let empowered garrotes or Exsg dots fall off fully"
fringe phoenix
i said on opener the empowered garrote falls off completely before going into vanish to double garrote again
i assume that last dot tick is way more damage to miss <1 second on the garrote uptime
ionic charm
If you don't have exsang (or ss traits), the guide states to vanish and reapply garrote in pandemic range. Because the extra value you get is not worth garroting twice without the cp gain from ss
fringe phoenix
i have 3x ss and exsg
inner pecan
@ionic charm yes but that only applies on opener
every other vanish after that u want to let fully drop
daring imp
chill bois
ionic charm
?
vapid sky
Hey all, I'm currently simming slightly higher using Master Asssasin vs Subterfuge. Is there any rotational changes I need to fully utilize MA or is it just a simc error?
inner pecan
the only time you will have an empowered garrote + vanish available is on the opener
because of stealth
any other time you have an empowered garrote you need to let it drop
since you just vanished obviously
ionic charm
And I only talked about opening garrote?
"the only reason you wait for opening garrote to fall of completely"
daring imp
@vapid sky run the regular sim with the talents you wanna check the rotation, click on the "full html report" at the right'ish menu, go on "action priority list" and then "sample sequence table"
inner pecan
@ionic charm ur right about opening garrote yes
i was just clarifying to be clear that usually let Subt garrotes fall off
And the main reason for that is so that your later vanishes still line up with Vendetta
If you wait for a non-Exsg garrote to fall off on opener it will fall after Vendetta and ur shit is de-sync'd for the whole fight
steel geyser
http://puu.sh/BHyq1/ec4110ac40.png
Sry to bother you guys again. Should I aim for the 370 archive head on Vectis or the 340 head SS from Shrine ?
I don't really know of theses traits stacks
edit : for m+
marsh bloom
Is it still 5.4 seconds if you already had the garrote+5.4s from previous garrote?
inner pecan
@marsh bloom yes
marsh bloom
oh thats good
inner pecan
@steel geyser For ST, sim yourself. Do you mean for M+?
marsh bloom
cause I thought you would have to calculate 30% of the new time as well lol
steel geyser
Yes for m+ sry
strange python
Is snapshotting still a thing? So do I want to galecallers before my exsang or does it matter if it's exsang galecallers
ionic charm
yes only for exsang, gc before ex
@marsh bloom calculates based on duration of new dot, not old
i.e. new dot will get up to extra 30% duration "added" from the old dot
marsh bloom
ty
inner pecan
just do the duration * .30 if you want to know what the pandemic range of a spell is
garrote is 5.4s, 5CP Rupture is 7.2s, 4CP Rupture is 6s
those are the 3 you need to remember basically
cunning needle
hmmm... i'm looking at the sample sequence table and it doesnt refresh garrote before exsang. it casts garrote 10 seconds before exsang
it'll refresh the rupture but it wont refresh the garrote
i thought we're supposed to fully refresh garrote & rupture before exsang
steel geyser
@inner pecan sry to @ u but yes I meant for m+. I already simmed for ST but kinda hard to sim m+
inner pecan
go for either a 385 Archive or 340 SS imo
marsh bloom
so during toxic blade
inner pecan
I wouldn't play 370 Archive over 340 SS personally
steel geyser
Ok thanks
inner pecan
@marsh bloom you want to get 2x Envenom in each TB atleast
inner pecan
yes
inner pecan
and so is poison bomb
marsh bloom
look at my name for explanation lol
steel geyser
Btw what do you guys think about MfD if m+ for sin ?
Herodamage seems to like it ? https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-levels/hd-t22-assassination-exsg
inner pecan
so more finishers = more possible PBs during TB
inner pecan
but just aim for 2x Envenom every TB
and 100% EP uptime during it
and obv 100% envenom uptime
marsh bloom
hell yea
inner pecan
@steel geyser you can try it on dungeons/weeks where you can abuse resets
but personally I prefer Vigor
ionic charm
sims literally do nothing for 6s while pooling for TB
inner pecan
MFD on Bolster is also dogshit
since you can't really abuse small-add resets on bolstering
steel geyser
True. This is annoying to read the herodamage chart. Can't hide the MfD sims
vapid sky
@daring imp ok thank you very much!
ionic charm
why not? @steel geyser just click the button
steel geyser
Which one ? 😮
ionic charm
above the list of talent choices theres a box that says filters, and you click the button that shows the MfD icon and they disappear
ionic charm
MfD shouldn't really change the chart that much, they're all using it. But yeah doesn't look like a better option
tulip willow
On G’huun what’s the best way to run the orb
Should I fan all the way up
And then step
faint harness
MfD is really nice for m+ i've found
tulip willow
Doing heroic so I’m in a group for it
faint harness
I also noticed that herodamage used it, so i tried it out
and you can abuse it in shrine of the storm for the small adds
strange python
I think its only good if you're playing without any SS traits
faint harness
not really
if you look at sims SS + mfd is simming way higher than just SS
but its likely that its cus its run with PB
strange python
haha i bet
faint harness
but yea for me, i had the same overall dps in 11 sots with both vigor and mfd
so i dunno if it matters that much
strange python
Would anyone like to help analyze mythic taloc log? i got such a wank parse so im defo doing some shit wrong
faint harness
prob not standing enough in shit
midnight creek
should u use double quick navigation as rogue?
faint harness
no
strange python
no deadly and quick
midnight creek
thanks
faint harness
ur 2 best stats
i get good logs on taloc by just standing in shit btw
let the healers pad a bit
i feel like its also very dependent on at what point you push him to next phase
marsh bloom
Literally been doing freehold/shrine/underrot for 3 days trying to get azerite gear
as in like M+
yea...............................................
strange python
I use vendetta on the first add + vanish + exang
errant mauve
M+ doesnt drop azerite pieces... does it?
potent rune
i thought u cant get azerite gear in m+
heavy wren
m+ does not drop azerite
strange python
it doesnt
potent rune
rip
errant mauve
sucks for that shitty rogue camping it for 3 days thinkin he would get azerite pieces
he did it for the lawls
strange python
@faint harness do u save cds for when the elevator comes down or do u just pop it on the adds?
boreal apex
i got 96 parse yesterday on mythic taloc. I just use all coldown when they ready. and stand in shit to hit ads
faint harness
^
standing in shit to hit adds is prob the most important thing
so you're just not standing there during the elevator phase
i didnt use cds on adds
daring imp
"LALA WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ON THAT POOL OF BLOOD OVER THERE?"
"healers have to parse too, boss"
faint harness
exactly
doing the healers a favor
whisper them before boss and tell them to snipe easy healing on you
daring imp
bonus points if you whisper all of them, then you can fuck up all mechanics you want and not die
boreal apex
did only take 1.28m damage so was okay
faint harness
4Head
daring imp
you expect to help healers parse with THOSE numbers?????
round rover
You have to keep your healers on their toes. Not taking any damage will make them slack off.
long adder
are you guys doing most of your dmg with garrote?
long adder
for uldir
inner pecan
depends if you play SS or not
with ss/subterfuge build garrote should be your top ST dmg
but with MA/TB build no
long adder
if I play SS should i not use TB?
exotic glen
ss traits with tb is shit
long adder
my garrote avg cast is 28.2k
faint harness
Never getting galecallers
long adder
How much is yours?
winged blaze
how much haste do you need for sin to be good? :~D
steel geyser
xd just went shrine 0 and got that head SS trait
to replace 370 matrix
yay
didnt even need to bonus roll
winged blaze
grats!
steel geyser
♥
winged blaze
is 14% haste too low?
inner pecan
no
there's no haste breakpoint
spec as playable at all haste levels, but haste is your best ST stat so you generally want a lot for ST
for multi-target you'd want to shift your focus to mastery/crit
winged blaze
whats your gear like? 😄
keen urchin
How op is SS ?
inner pecan
Best by far for multi-target
winged blaze
that is
keen urchin
Does ilvl usually matter more than trait for assa or should I aim for 2 x SS at all times?
inner pecan
Solid on ST
winged blaze
notice on your sin build you use exsanguinate
inner pecan
yeah I play SS/Exsg
with 385 SS chest from Fetid
but Exsg is just the best for bosses like Mythrax/G'huun
imo
keen urchin
@inner pecan thanks 😃
inner pecan
@keen urchin For multitarget try to have SS unless you have traits like Archive/Scent of Blood that are 30-45 ilvls higher than your SS pieces
keen urchin
Yeah ok, so basically 2 gear sets for M+ and multi / ST
inner pecan
yes
winged blaze
looking at bloodmallet, so many world quest trinkets are bis when warforged lol
inner pecan
just grab a GCB/Fathoms and you're pretty set for Uldir
winged blaze
GCB?
inner pecan
galecaller's boon
sinful lotus
@inner pecan Hey, was just reading previous messages. Why is it you prefer XSang on bosses like Mythrax and G'Hunn?
winged blaze
helps with burn maybe?
wise whale
probably high prio target burst
inner pecan
pretty much
for Mythrax it's very good for priority burst on the Xalzaix add and doesn't require you to be in melee for uptime
which is very nice for the spreading you need to do
same concept on G'huun it's nice prio damage on the Gibbering add while not requiring melee uptime, also it does better in burn phases
sinful lotus
Ah cool, makes a lot of sense! Still worth using with only 1 SS trait?
inner pecan
yes
sinful lotus
Right on! Thank you.
inner pecan
the SS+Exsg combo just gives you access to priority burst that TB/DD doesn't have at all
and the pure ST isn't even that far behind
so it's very good to have on-hand
stone quartz
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
plain spruce
hey guy's, if I get a trinket but it has a socket would you bump it up 10 ilvl or so on the charts?
wanton wagon
When you run SS in m+, do you let your garrotes run out before applying new ones? Assuming say 3 targets, so you don't have any mobs without garrote on them.
Sim it @plain spruce
plain spruce
yes unless you want to vanish and reapply
wanton wagon
10 ilvls sounds high for a trinket, they're worth a lot of dps
wanton wagon
Yeah, saw that
You get a dip in energy Regen when they all fall off at once and you can't reapply them because of the CD, and a dip in damage of course
Probably should use vanish on trash more often tho
Bolstering probably makes it more apparent, other weeks you often have targets dying by the time SS garrotes run out, so you don't have as many targets to reapply it too anyways
inner pecan
vanish is your only aoe cd
it's more important on trash than on bosses
3x as important to be exact
but yes, you should let Subt/SS empowered garrotes fully tick
Set up some Ruptures on multiple targets and you won't really have that dip in energy like you say
echo hound
is SS still bugged when simming on raidbots/Bloodmallet due to sims not properly incorporating Subterfuge? Bloodmallet has SS amongst the worst traits atm wich seems odd
wanton wagon
Nah I know, you still have energy, just not as much
echo hound
Just switched LM+SS setup to Archive+DD and it sims almost 600dps higher, but i feel like on an actual pull, i dont notice any +dps at all. maybe even a slight loss
wanton wagon
So, (almost) always vanish on trash, is that the way to go?
inner pecan
if you'll get full use of the 3 garrotes yes
strange python
@echo hound in which scenario? m+/uldir?
echo hound
@strange python The specifiq example was based on Mythic Zekvos and Cevtis yesterday
Vectis * sorry
strange python
das weird then :D for me it feels like archive does slightly more deeps
keen urchin
I like archive better too
echo hound
Perhaps its because i played with subterfuge over MA? Seems MA interacts alot better with DD on burst/Vendetta windows and on openers
plain spruce
we do bursting blood on ST right?
keen urchin
What's the usual use for Marked for Death ? It seems well but I don't see it mentioned in guides at all
lone junco
i usually dont
I keed
@plain spruce i just ran a 5min patchwerk on bursting blood vs agi pot. it was 6dps different
maybe one is better than the other in different timesteps or aoe
but based on that knowledge, I would def choose the cheaper one,
lone junco
use them both
lone junco
in aoe the spy and gc will probably win
plain spruce
doesnt fathom's cleave
lone junco
fathoms doesnt proc on cleave
plain spruce
ill sim it just curious
lone junco
well it does, but one at a time
plain spruce
i see
lone junco
your cleave dmg is garrote
gc kindof sucks to use at times.
if the 6t40 is close at all, then ditch gc for dice or fathoms.
wanton wagon
GC Sims great, but if you fuck up the timing (or the fight just doesn't allow you to reliably use it) say goodbye to your dps.
lone junco
then dont fuck it up
wanton wagon
Haha obviously
lone junco
and exang gc work well together
wanton wagon
I just meant it's much easier to get the full value out of any other trinket
plain spruce
maybe i dont have the right trait's for exang because sims still show tb fathoms over it by 1%
wanton wagon
So the Sim value of GC doesn't really apply in real world use
lone junco
the snapshot value of vanish exang apples when you press exang.
wanton wagon
It's still strong, especially with exsang snapshotting haste
keen urchin
exsang snapshots?
lone junco
agi > bursting blood at 5m and 2 min and 40 sec
wanton wagon
I don't like it for m+, too much movement when tanks have to kite
lone junco
i would use a big spyglass +dice if i had them
or gc dice
gc holds a ton of boss value when you start dropping haste for trash.
wanton wagon
Spyglass+dice is what I'm going for, but probably worth running GC on some weeks/dungeons
lone junco
gc +exang is up every pull.
night vale
Playing sub for m+ atm as my group has a hard time dealing with ghuun spawns (aft lock and balance Druid) is sin good at dealing with them, ie killing them quick?
wanton wagon
Nah, not really
night vale
Dang, okay thanks for the help guys 😃
wanton wagon
Got a 390 KR trinket (name slips my mind), so I'm currently using that. Lines up perfectly with vendetta (2min/20 sec), but versatility is pretty meh
lone junco
@plain spruce update. agi is better at all time steps in aoe and cleave. grats.
👏
lone junco
its such a small difference at 5m. but substatially better at shorter time steps
maybe other traits, or specs woud like it, but not 1ss 1arch exang.
small island
do u guys spam fok/ct on the adds on mythic zekvoz? or do u keep as many garrote/rupture up on them as possible and then use ct?
pastel reef
quick question my dudes, trying to run crimson temptest on mythic Zek but feeling super energy starved, is it worth it over PB?
echo hound
Yes it is. I ran it yesterday. You just need to pool energy to almost max, right before the adds spawn
keen urchin
@night vale the fuck is your Balance druid doing, I usually one shot a spawn by pooling enough astral power then double starsurge
echo hound
i made sure garotte and rup was fresh on zek right before add wave, Pooled energy, put garotte and rupture on the big add quickly, and then just knives and crimson spam.
pastel reef
yeah thats more or less what im running aswell, if i get some poison crits and end with some extra energy im throwing out a couple of ruptures for some topup aswell
just wierd cuz i havent used CT before, cheers for the confirmation
small island
Do u save first vanish for first adds?
small island
i use vendetta on pull
high ingot
you vendetta the big add instead of boss?!
small island
then i have it on second adds
echo hound
no worries. rule of thumb is that anytime theres +3 priority targets, crimson is always worth running. PB is nice, but unrealiable
pastel reef
iim usuing vend on first big add
echo hound
i Vendetta on CD, because then it lines up with burst in phase 2 pretty well on zek
craggy helm
minimum number of targets for CT to be better than focusing on ruptures/mut/env?
echo hound
atleast 4 id say. primarily because less than 4 targets will have you crying for Combo points if fan doesent crit
lone junco
@craggy helm not a straight answer. ofc
after you have a few g/r out. to sustain your energy
with ct up
when it is time to refresh ct early or env,
is about 5-6 mobs.
unless vendetta is out
proud tusk
Anyone sitting on nice WAs that show when to apply Garrote/rupture on enemy nameplates even if im not targeting them. I saw the rogue in Methods M+ videos had one like it, but no link to the WA itself.
proud tusk
oh really? i guess i have to go through my settings again then.
i can only see my garrote/rupture on my target, not on enemies in combat
night vale
@keen urchin balance druid says he can only kill ghunn spawns if he crits, so doesnt bother, so i run around like a mad man trying to evis them down
inner pecan
Are you using Elvui nameplates or another addon? @proud tusk
proud tusk
Elvui
lone junco
im at like 21-24% in raid + gc
marsh bloom
haste is still top stat lol
balmy perch
I think i need to give exsanguate a try in M+
proud tusk
Exsang feels great in m+
lone junco
exang in M+ each pull on a baddy. Energy tick rate is underrated
inner pecan
@proud tusk go to nameplates - enemy npc frames - debuffs. make sure they are enabled. under Filter Priority, use something like 1. CCDebuffs (regular filter) 2. Personal (Special Filter)
should work
exotic glen
@lone junco ❤
velvet kernel
what dung should i be spamming?
exotic glen
shrine probably
inner pecan
shrine until you have gcb
velvet kernel
what if i have a 370 gcb?
exotic glen
should just do whatever tbh then
young swan
I spam run freehold, siege and underrot
exotic glen
personally i really like tol dagor as a dungeon
inner pecan
tol dagor has bis dagger but pretty dogshit loot outside of that
freehold/siege/kr if you need rings
waxen osprey
Generally you wanna do the 3 dungeons he listed
marsh bloom
Freehold/Underrot/Shrine for SS am I right? lol
exotic glen
azerite cant drop in m+
waxen osprey
I don't believe SS is that good anymore
waxen osprey
Double dose is much better
marsh bloom
UH
exotic glen
who told you that
waxen osprey
in my sims
inner pecan
DD/MA/TB is a pure ST build
also not very tailored to Uldir fights
SS is still incredibly good, huge bis on AoE or multi-target
waxen osprey
Yes I use SS on aoe and multi target
exotic glen
we're talking about dungeons
lone junco
ayyyy
exotic glen
@lone junco ❤
lone junco
@exotic glen the biggest brains today.
hope I get a decent ilvl scent chest from my box this week.
is that so tough to ask
want to give 1ss 2scent a run for some M+ runs, and let our tank finally chain pull until his heart explodes.
zealous dew
keen urchin
does poisoned wire stack?
lone junco
you get 2 mut crit for that 1 garrote
keen urchin
yeah but as in