I always got 2 without pooling
#assassination
strange python
frosty gyro
9 sec = ~173 energy regened at 20% haste
Last I checked 173 energy isn't enough for mut mut envenom mut mut envenom
frosty gyro
I did because it's relevant to energy regen?
strange python
in uldir
frosty gyro
In uldir I guess sure
Not getting close the the 270 energy you need though if you're unlucky
You need to pool at least like 100 energy as a safety net
And if you're actually trying to play optimally you need to pool CP beforehand in addition to energy
To go for 3 envenoms
Much more annoying to do compared to exsang
Oh and if you go for the 3 envenoms you need even more energy pooled
keen hound
are your energy numbers taking into account vendetta's energy generation and the energy from your bleeds?
frosty gyro
Vendetta is only in your opener
And yeah venemous wounds is in there
But you should be trying to 3 evenom in TB as often as yu can
keen hound
which again, is not that hard to pool a little bit of energy
strange python
in those 9 seconds window, ur bleeds should tick around 4 times
frosty gyro
You have to pool CP and a large amount of energy while making sure rupture has at least like 15 seconds left on it when you hit TB and you hit TB on GCD when it comes off CD
frosty gyro
Wow it's like 13x9 + 56 = 173
Which is exactly what I wrote
That's a strange coincidence
strange python
well maybe u should've said that 🤷
You just said that 20% haste is 173 energy within 9 seconds
frosty gyro
Which it is
keen hound
pooling energy and keeping track of dots is normal gameplay for sin
frosty gyro
Yeah but TB is way more work than exsang
That was my point
You just jumped into this with no context
carmine valve
TB hard to play?
keen hound
Using a dmg buff on cd is not more work lol
frosty gyro
I didn't say it's hard to play just harder than exsang easier to lose dps with
And you don't just use it on Cd already pointed that out
keen hound
If you mess up your exsang window, your dps is trashed.
you should be using tb on cd
yes
carmine valve
TB on cool down, really?
Yes, on cool down
How do you even mess up your exsang window I already asked that and no one answered
carmine valve
from ravenhold
frosty gyro
You use it on CD but you have to pool energy and CP beforehand and make sure rupture doesn't need to be refreshed during it
Well I mean
Maybe you should look at logs
strange python
im looking at the apl
frosty gyro
How do you think the high parsing TB players get 3 envenoms in tb
summer tapir
setting up every window properly
frosty gyro
Because we all know apls are perfect and sims are an exact representation of how you actually optimally play
summer tapir
which I fail at miserably 😦
carmine valve
Setting up 3 envenom is TB is harder than setting up Exang ?
frosty gyro
Yeah actually
strange python
Yeah APL is pretty reliable I'd say
frosty gyro
Has way more stuff to keep track of
languid ore
Damn why do we even listen to top rogues and theorycrafters when we've got kirvin here
summer tapir
on a target dummy, no. in actual fights, yeah it can be
languid ore
The hell was I thinking
frosty gyro
@languid ore got something from these top rogues talking about this?
I'm pointing to 100th percentile logs
strange python
when do you guys refresh your rupture and normal garrotes?
frosty gyro
Where they do what I'm saying
languid ore
You're right. The people that ran the numbers are wrong
strange python
also at what combo point for rupture?
languid ore
And you're right
strange python
100th percentile on what
carmine valve
Ive tried both spec, still feel like your getting punished by wasting exang than tb
frosty gyro
couple mythic bosses
keen hound
That's b/c you are. @carmine valve
frosty gyro
fetid and taloc and mythrax mainly
Again
4th time asking this with no answer
How do you mess up and waste exsang
You literally just see it's coming off CD soon refresh dots and hit it on CD
There's no pooling or anything involved it's just hit it on CD and make sure your dots are up and refreshing dots is something you already do passively
keen hound
If you don't liine everything up, optimize your dots befoer exsang, or use it at the wrong time in teh fights. Unlike TB, exsang isn't necessarily on cd. You have to know the fights and the timing of the fights b/c you are only getting a limited number of them so you have to know ahead of time when the best time to use it, judge b ased on the hp of the boss whether it's worth holding for a certain point or using, whether eyou will get another one in later or not.
frosty gyro
Stop doing that
keen hound
no i didn't say use it on cd
languid ore
Lol
frosty gyro
You use it on CD and hold vanish/vendetta for exsang
The only time you would hold it is if you knew the fight would end between vanish coming off cd and exsang coming off CD
frosty gyro
Sims don't do that and no one I've seen does that
keen hound
you aren't getting another one in between teh gc cd, exsang cd, and vanish/vendetta cd
carmine valve
yah
keen hound
whether you wait the 10 seconds for GC or not, you aren't getting another one in before vanish/vendetta
and then you hold off for that nayways
frosty gyro
Are you reading anything I say?
You don't hold off for vanish/vendetta
You use Exsang on CD and hold vanish/vendetta for exsang
keen hound
Again, it comes down to fight length which you have to be aware of beforehand
frosty gyro
Plus even if you did hold exsang for galecaller it wouldn't change anything
carmine valve
You should stick to Toxic blade, im sure you will do good there fitting 3 envenoms in the tb uptime
keen hound
you are punished far greater for suboptimal use of exsang than you are for slightly suboptimal use of tb
frosty gyro
You would just look at galecaller CD and pop exsang with galecaller
Still way easier than TB
But it's way harder to use exsang suboptimally in the first place
keen hound
exsang is far more reliant upon the burst. mess it up and you are screwed.
frosty gyro
I can't think of like a single time I've messed up exsang
Can think of plenty of times when I was messing around with TB where I didn't pool cp properly and missed a 3rd envenom or had to refresh rupture in TB
Or got unlucky and didn't even get 2 envenom
keen hound
again, not talking even necessarilyt about suboptimally playing it... if you miss 1 envenom during tb... you aren't going to hurt that bad vs if youi mess up exsang
frosty gyro
But he is pooling cp and energy
languid ore
frosty gyro
Sure but messing up exsang is near impossible
keen hound
your dmg is going to hurt much more if you mess up exsang vs if you don't get 3 envenoms in tb
languid ore
Check the casts and what follow
frosty gyro
First TB like in the opener?
languid ore
2nd
carmine valve
so use it on CD, and not trying to pool for 3 envenoms?
languid ore
Basically
languid ore
Holy christ
languid ore
Lmao
carmine valve
Kirvin are you trolling ?
frosty gyro
Logs are hard
languid ore
Gah damn
carmine valve
Cause your saying pool for TB, when guide says use on CD, and Exang is supose to be used optimally, while you want it to be used on CD
strange python
languid ore
He's picking literally one spot
frosty gyro
Also @keen hound yeah and using a rupture during TB is something that you want to completely avoid so there's an examble of a 100th percentile player not being able to even play TB optimally
Because of how much shit you have to do for it optimally
strange python
@tropic heron https://gyazo.com/fb70a0d9a33d5c7f12240d8a7394bcf2
frosty gyro
Yeah you want to use it on CD
tropic heron
oh ok i thought ir ead someone just above say to pool for it or osmething
was just checking if that was a new method
frosty gyro
You can pool and use it on CD
it's not new
You just have to plan ahead of time
I wonder if anyone could find a top exsang parse that has a mistake in it
lol
keen hound
@frosty gyro It points out that it isn't the end of the world if you mess tb up
languid ore
The next best
On that list
Using tb
We can keep going. Top parses are people not pooling
Just weaving tb in asap
Using it as a cp rather
frosty gyro
Maybe stop using mother which has a bunch of aoe on mythic?
strange python
rofl what
frosty gyro
Taloc is probably the closest thing to ST tbh
strange python
But the rogue doesn't even pad on mother
frosty gyro
11 casts of FoK
frosty gyro
Very ST
languid ore
Top taloc
Tb then muts
Wow. Very pool much energy very envenoms
Tb on CD fam
It's no rocket scientry
frosty gyro
Definitely not pooling
languid ore
That's the first one
spice surge
TB on CD and pooling isnt contrary
frosty gyro
What
languid ore
Keep going papi
spice surge
You can do both
frosty gyro
That's so far into the fight
strange python
He gets 3 envenoms maybe like 2 times
frosty gyro
Want me to show others?
strange python
rofl
frosty gyro
I mean 4 of the TBs before thatt are triple envenom
languid ore
You ain't getting me baby
spice surge
Also, whatever the top log is doing isnt necessarily the best
strange python
ofcs
languid ore
Tb on cd
spice surge
You can do both
frosty gyro
He triple envenoms the first one with vendetta, pools and galecallers the 3rd one for another triple, vendetta triples his 4th one
5th*
strange python
He actually only gets 3 env in TB twice
frosty gyro
Also he messed up one and had to use a 1cp envenom in it because he didn't pool energy
strange python
rofl
frosty gyro
Which one did he mess up?
strange python
2nd vendetta
carmine valve
Ive been asking this for quite some time
frosty gyro
You can just sim with the talent and look at the sequence table under APL if you can't find it
unkempt gulch
pooling LUL
strange python
ops missed one
frosty gyro
Yep
frosty gyro
Plus if he messed one up that would be a great example of how a 100th percentile player made a mistake while attempting to play TB optimally
Yeah and there's stuff like a 1CP envenom in TB in there
Because it's a pain inthe ass to do everything perfectly with TB
While Exsang is way simpler
karmic ingot
frosty gyro
That's MA right?
karmic ingot
Ya
frosty gyro
No SS
karmic ingot
Correct
Ranvenholdt has openers for SS. SimC has opener for MA/TB no SS. Which seems to be what people keep asking.
Well, really, ravenholdt is just missing MA openers.
unkempt gulch
yea
frosty gyro
Was anyone else unaware this was an azerite trait? https://www.wowhead.com/spell=273682/meticulous-scheming#azerite-power-items
dusk holly
Doesn’t the APL use pooling for TB
strange python
Nope
karmic ingot
It’s not a very good trait.
lone junco
Apl used to pool and clip ep/env back for Kb
frosty gyro
Well the APL doesn't exactly play TB perfectly
unkempt gulch
I never pool in raid and parse pretty damn well
lone junco
Yeah.
strange python
MfD is 🤢 though
lone junco
So when we get the dungeon hero we will be able to blend 1t bosses with 6t trash.
frosty gyro
The APL is REALLY good at using Toxic Blade nvm
lone junco
I think the occasional st conditions will still want Vig.
strange python
Ye
languid ore
The real question is are you losing dps for pooling and waiting for 3 or just using it on cooldown
You're not asking that question
lone junco
So we will get to pick from raw cleave to the blend.
lone junco
I feel like Vig does a lot of good work
languid ore
What the difference in dmg in the two are probably neglible
frosty gyro
I've never said you don't use it on CD
Although you don't use it on CD the 5th time
You use it on CD you just have to pay attention and do extra stuff so when you use it on CD you get the most out of it
Which is much more annoying to do perfectly than exsang in my experience
lone junco
Does the 5th sync with the 2min vanish?
strange python
Im actually considering running archive for higher keys, shit just doesnt die as fast
🤔
frosty gyro
@lone junco if you wait ike 10 sec or something your 5th toxic blade syncs with vanish/vendetta I see most top logs do it
lone junco
Massive FOK whites. If you have enough scent stack
languid ore
I have 1 scent 1 ss and archive
strange python
355 Scent, 340 scent, 370 ss
lone junco
@frosty gyro I can see that. I also see that there are so many traits /tweaks that the apl tuning is constantly changing.
If you plan to play scent. Your group needs to big dick pull.
frosty gyro
Yeah I mean it's really hard to get the apl to play perfectly with a trait that requires pooling cp and energy for optimal use
lone junco
Wait.
Apl in legion got really well tuned imo. It could pool for ep uptime. Or for Kb clips.
strange python
selas azerite pieces are fucking 385
lone junco
Just has a lot of stuff to work with now. Wait until people start playing poison wire and twist.
lone junco
All it takes is a balance tweak and stuff slides by 2-3%
main blaze
Yeah or crit damage instead of crit chance
lone junco
I like the crit.
main blaze
or both crit damage / chance
lone junco
Crit is their way of making balanced blades trait
frosty gyro
The thing about the crit is it makes it stack horribly and makes the varriance in CP gain from seal fate even higher
Plus it has to somehow avoid DRing with higher crit ratings we get late in expac and MA and it's just a whole mess to account for what is best with it being crit
lone junco
Aoe
G m r. M r g. Mut rupture. Mut rupture.
I love embedded crit to mut. Would hate to lose SS for it. But it def pumps the cps.
frosty gyro
It's a cool concept I just think it executes badly.
stable oxide
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
frosty gyro
It's one of the problems I have with azerite in general
lone junco
Maybe 3 charges and it is bis.
frosty gyro
They want the traits to scale with ilv so they have to use flat numbers they can't use percentages or autocrit
lone junco
Yeah.
frosty gyro
It would probably be way better as an autocrit
for 1 mut
In terms of not being annoying and confusing to sim/use
lone junco
3sec 50crit is a great example of awkward
vanish tb mut env. Will never be that bad. But. 3cp vanish tb env mut. Is better.
Probably hard to sim without delaying the tb.
frosty gyro
Is it? That's not what sim does.
lone junco
Afaik the vanish tb ma isn't fixed.
frosty gyro
I mean in both cases you get MA on a tb env and mut
and in one you get tb and vanish on cd faster
lone junco
I didn't pray to the shoulder god in legion even with 100%. 3s50 is too limp.
Rip Bracers. 😢
Actually exang bota procs were what gave me life.
Engaging game play. When they keep adding dps rings. But add DR. so we wind up with blends of 6 dps. And 3 heed row.
I couldn't even predict the super Op build if we got 6 of the current traits.
frosty gyro
I mean I think it would be neat if all the traits were unique and they made the system around that.
tropic heron
ever since i started simming traits i feel like my DPS has gone up
frosty gyro
Then if you make all the traits change rotation a bit you end up with people doing all sorts of weird rotations depending on traits
Like imagine some guy using SS + DD + Poison Wire + SB
dark token
I would use 5x SS for fat garrotes and save vanish for triple garrote cheese on every fight
frosty gyro
Oh yeah extra ring means 6 traits not 4
My god
I see so many pvp specific trait nerfs
Watch out for the 6x SS exsang rogues
fading hearth
Wait are rogues getting another nerf again?
silent scaffold
is triple ss or double dose worth it in m+?
karmic ingot
They’ll probably do the extra ring the same way they did the crucible in legion. I bet you won’t be able to get the same trait twice on one item.
errant mauve
They are adding another ring to azerite gear?
fading spade
That's not for a while though
errant mauve
Oh
fading spade
I think 8.1
frosty gyro
I wonder when 8.1 will be
strange python
345 Galecaller's with a socket or 360 Harlan's?
errant mauve
At what % does haste start to fall off and become not worth stacking anymore ?
frosty gyro
Like never for sin
errant mauve
I see
frosty gyro
Just sim yourself to find out
I think the APL got updated like yesterday and it makes haste even more valuable than it already was
So you're safe with assloads of haste and some crit
errant mauve
Lol yea
Is fathoms deck more dps than galecallers 360 ilvl trinket?
Or frenetics corps 370
strange python
sim yourself
frosty gyro
I'm just going to say yes
Assuming ST
And sims aren't that great for non ST
Note that out of the top logs for almost every boss in uldir like 80% of them have fathoms on
Except for uh
Zekvoz
Where it's more like 40%
You don't really beat fathoms until you get into the good trinkets at ilv 380+ or 370 with socket
karmic ingot
If you’re asking whether fathoms is better than 360 GC I want to know what your other trinket is.
frosty gyro
Like Harlan's/Plumage/Guile/GC
errant mauve
So which trinket should I replace? Galecallers? And use galecallers for trash pulls and aoe?
frosty gyro
Probably just use galecallers+fathoms for everything
errant mauve
Frenetic corps 370 and galecallers 360 are what I have now
frosty gyro
Frenetic is literally a worse fathoms
karmic ingot
Frenetic 370 is not good.
frosty gyro
Idk if 385 frenetic is better than fathoms
karmic ingot
It might be competitive for outlaw. Not for sin.
errant mauve
So grab fathoms and swap out frenetic , got it
karmic ingot
If only there were a way to tell🤔
strange python
was*
karmic ingot
General opinion is frenetic 370 in the dumpster. But simming it will provide more info.
strange python
Its trash
errant mauve
If it’s trash what would make it sim higher?
strange python
Thats not what he meant
frosty gyro
Can I get a fuckin lmao https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ojfy67BGnYZdA4qF5gQP2s
strange python
why
frosty gyro
Frenetic 385 < Fathoms
strange python
yeah well that was known
frosty gyro
I mean it's only 20dps off
frosty gyro
I hope blizzard doesn't add a fathoms upgrade
frosty gyro
Yeah but I'm hoping they don't do it in bfa
You know what I thinkl they should do next expac though
Artifact trinkets
frosty gyro
Like trinkets are already things with on use effects and proc effects
Instead of putting that stuff on weapons and armor just put it where it belongs
frosty gyro
TBH I don't mind tier sets being gone
provided we get adequate replacements
Which Azerite isn't
frosty gyro
Tier sets were okay
It was kinda annoying to try to get a complete set and it would be a nightmare with PL
frosty gyro
personal loot
strange python
Why would it be a nightmare
frosty gyro
Some people haven't even got a single piece of azerite gear from raid
strange python
And as if getting azerite pieces isnt annoying rofl
frosty gyro
Imagine trying to get 4 different specific loot pieces with this system
strange python
You mean tier piece?
frosty gyro
No I'm saying right now with personal loot it's already a pain to get azerite gear from raid and trying to get a tier set would be even worse
personal loot needs an overhaul
frosty gyro
And also having to use lower ilv gear because it completes a set bonus
strange python
+guilds override it with forcing people to give items away anyways
frosty gyro
How do you force people to give items away?
strange python
Guilds do that
strange python
Well you can have a 370 azerite piece with complete dogshit traits
And get a 370 bis in raid
Thus you can be forced to give it away
frosty gyro
Happens very rarely nowadays
frosty gyro
Well yeah but you have to get a sidegrade in the first place
faint harness
Few items per boss
frosty gyro
ML they would just pass over upgrades as well sometimes
Neither system is perfect really but PL has plenty of room for improvement
faint harness
You never owned any item with ML
frosty gyro
Which Blizzard just won't do
strange python
Yeah
faint harness
Its the same idea behind lootcouncil but now its worse because it automatically feels worse to trade away loot you already had
frosty gyro
I think we need raid gear vendors back with tokens
And trading someone an upgrade should give you tokens
zinc zephyr
Fixed a bug causing the bonus damage from Shrouded Suffocation to fall off if the rogue used Garrote on another target.
yaaaaaaaay ❤
faint harness
I dont understand how that would work Kirvin
strange python
neither
frosty gyro
What do you not understand
faint harness
How would trading gear generate a token
and why would it
and where would you use it
and what could you get
frosty gyro
If you get a piece of gear, say heroic. And someone who is not you equips it, and it is an upgrade.
faint harness
isnt that just technically getting double loot
frosty gyro
You get some currency towards buying a piece of heroic gear
Well I think that every boss that doesn't drop loot should give tokens as well
faint harness
They would never ever do that because its a bad idea imo
strange python
gearing would be so easy then
frosty gyro
I mean you can easily adjust to make gearing on average about the same as now
But more targeted
It's not like you just have to add more gear and adjust nothing
faint harness
Nah but its still.. Target gear? This isnt private realms
frosty gyro
PL has problems with bad luckl on specific pieces/getting redundant pieces
faint harness
You're stuck in the legendary fix they made in Legion, i think both were dumb.
frosty gyro
@faint harness did you play like wrath?
faint harness
Yes but that gear was redundant in few weeks
frosty gyro
lol?
faint harness
It was there in the end of BC too
frosty gyro
But basically as long as we're pure PL they need to do something to fix the issues of RNG
frosty gyro
Yeah but players don't
Especially with stuff that is severely timegated
Like azerite
olive peak
Hello guys, i recently got 2 - 370 azerite pieces from uldir (matrix and archive) and a 385 piece with dagger in the back...m,y ilvl now is 374 and my BURST is a lot lower than when i was 350 with 3 shrouded suffs..thing is i probably do more sustained damage, but my question is , should i run a 340 azerite with shrouded even if raidbots says its a downgrade?.. like it feels like shit to be 25 ilvls higher and doin 10-15k less burst
faint harness
They dont give a shit about what players think, they decided that the playerbase should be saved from themselves long ago
Thats why they remove options
frosty gyro
Maybe you should sim yourself
faint harness
But man NUMBERS dood
strange python
muuuh numbers
subtle bane
with what settings on raidbots do you sim m+
faint harness
Longest post ever getting a headache trying to read it
strange python
nah dont do that lol
faint harness
when was SS gone
zenith cedar
were the kings of m+ forever
strange python
same rofl
frosty gyro
I say trust your instincts
spring prawn
never. people r too dumb to not press garrote 4 times lel
languid ore
PL is fine
zenith cedar
dont use galecallers? wat
spring prawn
Galecaller is sick dude, idk what ure on
faint harness
PL is a flawed system
frosty gyro
Too many spastic tanks that run the boss away from GCB
languid ore
every system is
spring prawn
lmao, macro it with /shout
faint harness
Yes but PL is very flawed
zenith cedar
if u cant use GCB in raids then its ur fault
languid ore
very""
zenith cedar
there are always 10 second windows of standing still
languid ore
ok.
zenith cedar
same shit
frosty gyro
I mean PL isn't completely horrible it's still possible to do fairly well and get results roughly equal to your effort
For most people who aren;'t super unlucky
It could just stand to see some improvements
zenith cedar
a 1 min cd is great for dungeons
faint harness
we end up with ppl that have 380-382 gear, and then half the raid has 370
its a shit system
languid ore
isnt there a hidden luck system behind it too
frosty gyro
Don't think so
I think only bonus rolls have bad luck protection
And the M+ cache with azerite
faint harness
theres no bad luck protection, only from the coining
frosty gyro
@zenith cedar tell that to my spastic pug tanks that like to run 20feet away right after I active GCB
faint harness
How is that laziness
zenith cedar
are u in m5s or something
frosty gyro
Theoretical 200DPS upgrade in sims if I get to stand in 100% of galecallers vs 100% guaranteed DPS that can't be countered by dumb tanks and boss mechanics
zenith cedar
i dont have that issue
frosty gyro
Ran a +11 freehold this morning
zenith cedar
cool
frosty gyro
Tank ran all over the place kiting
spring prawn
even my dh alt, which does 1 mythic 10, arena cap and heroic raid a week is 372
frosty gyro
Was annoying as hell
faint harness
you got lucky then
frosty gyro
Never using GCB again
faint harness
silencedt
zenith cedar
i got 370 in first week of m+10 loot lol
idk this system is broken
i dont raid mythics so i cant do shit to get gear except cap pvp 1800+ rating and do a single m 10 a week
its dumb
faint harness
an affliction warlock in my guild was 379 first week of mythic
spring prawn
im 378 with 2/8 m lel
zenith cedar
i have a job and cant raid hardcore lol
faint harness
"raid hardcore"
i raid 3 days a week
and i have a 9-5 job
and am 6/8
bad excuse
frosty gyro
Probably has more RL obligations than you do
zenith cedar
good for you
faint harness
What do you mean, thats a fulltime job (?)
zenith cedar
Yes it is a full time job
olive peak
is it better to run 3x SS with 340 azerite pieces instead of 2x370 1x 385 different traits?
frosty gyro
faint harness
who knows decoy, its up to you to find that out
spring prawn
depends on traits, what kinda question is that lol
faint harness
"different traits"
faint harness
the rupture trait is actually decent in m+
faint harness
the FoK trait is also ok
spring prawn
if not in raid*
zenith cedar
sure
faint harness
double dose does fuckall in m+
spring prawn
im running 360 SS, 340 SS, 385 SS
zenith cedar
i run 385 sb 370 ss 340 ss
faint harness
yikes
zenith cedar
personally
zenith cedar
but thats the best i have
spring prawn
idk, spamming rupture on everything is kinda meh
zenith cedar
disagree
faint harness
well you dont have to max them
zenith cedar
lol
spring prawn
spamming CT with 2 rupture up is way more dps
zenith cedar
venemous wounds + free energy and agility
spring prawn
just fyi
zenith cedar
is a pretty good deal
faint harness
i would rather envenom and get more deadly poison procs on fok
frosty gyro
uh
zenith cedar
depends on targets
frosty gyro
Well I mean I'm not the one who's going with rupture trait
faint harness
spamming CT is a yikers
frosty gyro
That wou;ld be Seliathan
spring prawn
spamming CT is go to
faint harness
sure thing man 4Head
frosty gyro
I'm sure you're a better M+ player than Seliathan
spring prawn
800 io detected omegalul
frosty gyro
You do you
faint harness
I dont even know who that is honestly
spring prawn
#2 world rogue
faint harness
And i dont really care what he runs
frosty gyro
@faint harness https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Seliathan and he runs 2x scent of blood 1x ss
He's in here and also streams
faint harness
yea i agree about the rupture traits but not the CT spams
spring prawn
its way more dps then rupturing everything
spring prawn
1 rupture is 800 dps
lone junco
Scent is strong. His 20k overall is baller.
lone junco
FOK white with 8 ruptures out is eggplant.
frosty gyro
good math there
spring prawn
hows that good math? lol
frosty gyro
@lone junco Does he just put up a bunch of ruptures and then spam fok overcapping cp?
That sounds dank
lone junco
The Ct spam math is vs another env. There is a break of Ct hit over env value.
frosty gyro
I wish I had scent of blood
lone junco
I'll talk with him more. We ran it in prepatch and early. He just went back. So I doubt he's one capping.
spring prawn
hes only running scent cuz 385 tho :p
lone junco
He overcapped legion tho.
7pk with mastery was wort more to him in shoulder than the env bomb.
Maybe not. They pull big.
I wish I had 7pk for a bit.
Seemed baller.
frosty gyro
7pk?
lone junco
The fok trait in legion.
reef frigate
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
spring prawn
seliathan just said it aswell :>
lone junco
He had 7dp 7pk
spring prawn
ruptures up - spam ct or envenom
lone junco
Right. After rupture is out. You Ct or env. Those are your choices.
spring prawn
ofc after, but theres no point to apply 10 ruptures lul
lone junco
Good luck maintaining 10 even with scent. They don't last that long.
spring prawn
u might wanna read that again :p
subtle leaf
thanks @lone junco
celest mirage
dice/deadeye best for m+? I also have a 395 azerokks heart?
brazen copper
does it matter if quick or deadly nav is on MH?
strange python
frosty gyro
Nice
strange python
🤠
frosty gyro
I need to run more 10+ I've only run 22 this expac which is why I just have a socket belt and nothing else upgraded above base 370
frosty gyro
3+ last I checked
woven lark
Aight ty
frosty gyro
Probably depends on your crit somewhat
strange python
800
frosty gyro
huh
I was 814 2 days ago
992 right now
Just did a bunch of pugs over the last 2 days
strange python
I could probably go up by like 60 easily if I do sethralis
my best is +6 depleted
I just dont do that shit
frosty gyro
Sethralis is so easy this week
I did an 11 in time and a 12 almost in time
Basically none of the trash in sethralis is actually hard
ancient compass
is vendetta bugged right now?
frosty gyro
in what way
ancient compass
I am getting a 1 min CD vendetta every time I use it
strange python
are u sure its not a visual bug?
ancient compass
i have it macroed with galecallers boon
i am positive I am using it every minute
unless when I use it the second time its not actually doing anything
strange python
Report it?
ancient compass
nvm...its cuz the trinket is a 1min cd
I thought trinket was a 2 min cd
stupid me
carmine valve
I think they have a dungeon section in Herodmg.com
solid phoenix
just kill mother mythic 4Head
strange python
easy
frosty gyro
Taloc and Mother mythic actually aren't very hard at all
Cou;ld probably pug them on a decent pop server
strange python
I am from EU and you cant pug it with ppl from my server
And its a high pop server
strange python
xD
marsh bloom
How do I sim at herodamage.com @carmine valve
cold meteor
was not bad when it was a 1st down for 90% of the group
strange python
si the secondarys are not bad tbh
frosty gyro
I wish cross realm mythic opened at 25 full clears like I saw some people saying instead of 100 clears for both factions which is what it seems to be
strange python
i will retry it
frosty gyro
61 more horde guilds and 94 more alliance guilds to go
strange python
.....
marsh bloom
What site do you guys use to sim assassination M+?
spice surge
For most things herodamage has the setups (pressing assa>X>M+)
But for simming yourself raidbots.com
marsh bloom
Do I just put down hectic add cleave for a minute?
cold meteor
patchwerk 5 bosses 40sec
spice surge
If you want to sim hectic add cleave for a minute
Tbh if you just dinged it doesnt matter. Just get good aoe stats and SS traits
In almost any case aswell
marsh bloom
SS?
marsh bloom
oh lol
ah yea
Idk what good aoe stats are lol
and I hear everyone says that vigor is just way easier to use but on the site it says MfD is the best
for dungeons
faint harness
Mother mythic is prob at Taloc levels of easy
basically heroic ghuun is more difficult
marsh bloom
hectiv add cleave one boss is fine?
spice surge
I mean, you're gonna get sims that arent representative of a full m+
because you cant get good sims for m+
As it varies depending on your group, your pulls, key level
The one on herodamage is an approximation which is way to cumbersome to run for yourself, nevermind the fact that you basicly wont be getting much useful info
still hare
Just go for 3ss + decent amount of mastery and critical + ct especially for higher m+ with fortified
marsh bloom
SS doesn't stack
marsh bloom
ah ok
spice surge
Damage always stacks, not the other effects
calm grail
Are you telling me that I seriously won't get nine combo points when I use a single garrote with 3 SS?
still hare
You might wanna try run with 2ss and 1 scent
calm grail
Come on Blizzard, dropping the ball as always.
still hare
Cp doesn’t stack
spice surge
3x2+1 is 7 not nine 😄
still hare
Never did
spice surge
Didnt even meme correctly 😄
still hare
Scent works fine if your group goes for big pulls
calm grail
They just need to make old anticipation baseline. Ez
marsh bloom
I've looked everywhere and I can't find out how to use elaborate planning effectively
quaint flare
marsh bloom
I was wondering why @spice surge mentioned "if you just dinged" and then I looked at my name again lol
still hare
You need to do a decent energy pool phase before cast your finishers during lust and procs
marsh bloom
procs?
still hare
That way you’ll make the most out of elaborate planning
marsh bloom
and if I use envenom twice in a row theres like 2 seconds that just gets wasted, is that ok?
still hare
Yep, trinks, decent stack of weapon enchants
candid mica
wait untill <.5 sec on ep
then envenom
unless you're going to energy cap
then use it right away
still hare
You wont be able to keep ep up 100%
marsh bloom
Does elaborate planning snapshot rupture?
strange python
Hey, anyone willing to take a look at som assasination logs? Trying to help a friend find where his lack of dmg is coming from. Quite a big difference in garrote dmg for instance with a similar amount of casts.
candid mica
no it doesnt
marsh bloom
rip
candid mica
link the logs
strange python
How big difference does the SS trait do?
i've looked at other rogues of similar ilvl and the difference is like +40% or so
candid mica
not using vanish is the big one
fervent stream
Is fan if blades Azerite trait good for PvP?
frosty gyro
lol
strange python
Alright thanks stub, see anything else?
Im not a rogue player but his melee dmg seems to be very high up as well ?
frosty gyro
Fan of Blades got a 75% damage nerf in pvp yesterday
strange python
I'll ask
steel geyser
Feint is the best rogue spell
faint harness
@frosty gyro Zek'vozz and Vectis are equal
strange python
He says poisoned knifes builds combos and renews deadly poison when he has to run out of the fight
whats TB ? @candid mica
candid mica
toxic blade
marsh bloom
apparently 25% crit 10% haste 30% mastery gives haste a 2.71 stat weight lmao in aoe
does that sound right?
candid mica
he shouldn't be pressing poisoned knife that much
at all
it's a huge waste of energy
you can press it to avoid capping energy
if you have to run out
that's about it
strange python
toxic blade 7 times on a 6.47 vectis fight is also 2 low then i guess?
candid mica
yea
marsh bloom
lmao 7 times
candid mica
its a 25 sec cd
pine tartan
7 times?
marsh bloom
25 sec cd right?
pine tartan
yh
candid mica
vendetta
strange python
Not using vanish is a big loss even without SS trait?
candid mica
yes
strange python
he says theres no point using vanish without it
lone junco
I'm good thanks.
marsh bloom
vanish lets you empower your garrote
strange python
Hes asking if he should use Nightstalker talent with garrote
quick fog
Vanish is a big buff with Subterfuge or MA
surreal halo
What are you guys using as pooling logic? Maximise EP? Envemon Buff? Overlap envenom into last second of EP? Pooling for TB only?
strong dome
on vectis he used 7 out of 17 TBs
strange python
So hes supposed to use Subterfuge?
quick fog
I personally don't like Sub on ST.
strong dome
depending on what sims the highest
strange python
think stub disagrees ^^ ?
strange python
But to summurize : Starting to use vanish, cast TB a lot more than he does and not waste energy with poisoned knives?
candid mica
yea
14 wasted on taloc
i didnt look at that on vectis
his opener is wrong aswell
im assuming he got the plasma discharge on his taloc opener
he should've cloaked that off
not sprint out mid opener
candid mica
he should cast crimson vial less aswell
strong dome
did they hero on pull? cuz if they did then thats even worse
strange python
No hero on pull on either fight
strong dome
okay
candid mica
he casted fok 2 times and only hit 1 target both times
that's bad
he's running master poisoner for some reason
maybe it sims higher for him idk
but as far as I know ep is better
in every situation
strange python
Im helping him with sim atm, so he hasnt simmed talents
candid mica
yikes
light kestrel
Crafted 385 boots, high vers low mastery... RIP expulsom
strange python
Huge thanks guys 😃 I'll tell him what you said and see where it goes from there 😃
strong dome
theres moments on taloc where he casts 3 mutilates in a row, whats going on there
frosty gyro
@strong dome he got blocked 4Head
daring imp
maybe mut parry 
calm grail
I have like 500 sanguicell but not nearly enough expulsom. I can't be bothered to do the bracer flipping either too soul draining.
royal lantern
i think you can craft feast on the next patch with the cells or something
frosty gyro
I always love when the tank decides to spin a boss during my opener and garrote gets blocked
strong dome
like wtf is this here
royal lantern
they give them more uses
strong dome
Mutilate>garrote>mutilate>mutilate>rupture
candid mica
he didnt get any parries on mut that fight either
frosty gyro
double oof
daring imp
then he just wasn't paying attention to combo points
frosty gyro
He's running anticipation?
candid mica
that isnt in the game anymore
frosty gyro
It's a joke buddy
daring imp
lul
strange python
Okay i think i got an answer to the tripple mutilate or whatever
daring imp
well he definitely has to improve cd usage, bleed uptime and most of all, energy/cp efficiency
daring imp
overall he just needs to play more to get the hang of it
strange python
Hes read that he shoiuld use rupture with a minumum of 4 combos, envenom with 5 combos. So if he has 4 combos with toxic blade on cd he uses mutilate to fill
strong dome
wat
candid mica
that's
daring imp
rup/env are both at 4+, envenom shouldn't be only at 5cp
frosty gyro
k dont do that
daring imp
yea in pvp it makes sense ^
strong dome
yea
candid mica
maybe that's why he thinks that
daring imp
because of system shock
strange python
also u can rap on 3cp in aoe situation
daring imp
but everywhere else no
strong dome
inb4 he read a pvp guide
daring imp
also toxic blade is on cooldown
frosty gyro
honor talents in pve when
strong dome
yea
frosty gyro
I want to play outlaw rogue and be mini heroism bot
strange python
So a 4 combo envenom is alright ?
strong dome
yes
frosty gyro
yes
candid mica
yea
frosty gyro
Sometimes you envenom at 1cp 🤔
candid mica
i hope that was a joke too
candid mica
interesting
strong dome
was it last last second envenom on an add or something?
frosty gyro
no
candid mica
mistakes happen
frosty gyro
I have 2 99%s where I had CT on and didn't realize it
strong dome
just think of it as getting really unlucky and not getting a single poison bomb proc
daring imp
^
hearty yew
can someone explain how i should energy pull?
frosty gyro
I actually haven't checked if it would have been a 100 with PB 🤔
daring imp
@hearty yew you ask yourself three questions
1 - is there enough time left on rupture
2 - is there enough time on garrote
3 - any big cd coming of soon
if yes to the three, stop hitting any button lul
strange python
Well again, thanks for all the help. really apprieciate it 😃
hearty yew
so i basically never cast envenom in m+?
dire spoke
lol
strong dome
wat
strange python
u do
daring imp
uh ... why wouldn't you? o_o