Whole opener is off
#assassination
eager haven
harsh glacier
not on mother he isnt
harsh glacier
haha
I think it might be cds being wrongly used, really not sure though
only used 2 exsanguinates @strange python ?
eager haven
Maybe increase haste too
harsh glacier
owait dw I was looking at logs wrong, he used 7
eager haven
It says 1:40 long fight
harsh glacier
Yeah, I dunno man. Bleed uptimes are low, but depends on which group for switching off boss he's on
eager haven
Yeah mother can be a hard fight to gauge dps because of that reason lol
long osprey
quick question, anyone know a weak aura that shows how many ruptures and garrotes you have out?
harsh glacier
@strange python Your dps seems fine for your ilvl anyways, you're not doing super badly. I think it might just be a positioning/boss knowledge thing if anything. Can't find anything wrong with logs
buoyant ember
@strange python what does sim say your dps should be?
atomic karma
if your ionly gonna get 1 vanish in the fight
save your vanish for the second exsang
instead of using it in opener
strange python
it says I should be 11500 or so unbuffed
but I feel "elo-helled" around 9-10k
something is not clicking
harsh glacier
Dude you're getting 70-85% ilvl logs on like every fight for your ilvl
its not bad
strange python
oh
buoyant ember
Yeah so on mother, the numbers looked fairly normal
eager haven
LOL
strange python
maybe I have a warped perception of what is good
eager haven
Welp that’s pretty good indeed
harsh glacier
like you can do better obviously, but I think its probably just you positioning yourself un-optimally
not getting enough uptime on boss, moving out for stuff for too long etc
logs seem fine
buoyant ember
Show a log of fetid maybe for a better overall encounter.
strange python
Ah I have been grinding out logs for each fight
when I get a good one on mother I will come back with a fetid one haha
buoyant ember
Also aseveryone else is saying. More pulls on an encounter naturally improve numbers as you start to telegraph movements etc
harsh glacier
But yeah, could also be a gearing issue
11% haste is low for raiding
The top rogues are getting like 20%+
calm brook
pre- raid gears stack shrouded suffo?
proud ore
i havent played assassin in forever do you still get energy back for having your bleeds up
proud ore
where does it even mention this on the tooltips
harsh glacier
proud ore
how does like a noobie know this exists tho
harsh glacier
its in your spellbook
harsh glacier
np
lone junco
There is a WQ up for Berserker's juju. it is a haste trinket that stacks with GC.
if you are lower ilvl. i would make sure to get it
NA horde
if you happen to TF, it then Grats
unkempt gulch
4 minute heroic kill 
unkempt gulch
my last 3 heroic kills were all 2 minutes
fast nacelle
i think we were at 2min on first id already
unkempt gulch
i wait to burst till 50%
fast nacelle
now we are close to 1min
lone junco
first kill was 353
unkempt gulch
harsh glacier
cool
unkempt gulch
those are my 3 fetid on H
unkempt gulch
aha
unkempt gulch
i wondered if that was you
fast nacelle
closest
unkempt gulch
LOL
harsh glacier
only 99s Tyra? notgoodenough
strange python
@harsh glacier you click on timeline and then casts
unkempt gulch
still couldn't pass the outlaw god 😉
unkempt gulch
yep 😛
lone junco
360 😦
strange python
other than that super fixable flaw, do you see any thing else I should fix for next time
unkempt gulch
i was outlaw by mistake on mythic mother last week, so i decided to full swap back to outlaw instead of sin
harsh glacier
I dont think messing up your opener would screw you down to a 33 log though
there's probably more to it
fast nacelle
no but if your opener sucks
you wont recover for a good parse
especially if you play exang
strange python
yeah I'm going to use the wowanalyzer aswell but that websites advice is super generic most of the time and not incredily helpful
harsh glacier
I guess your bleed uptimes should probly be 100% on a fetid zerg too
fast nacelle
depends
i dont think its that bad to let your rupture fall off
vor another envenom in opener
harsh glacier
yeah true
lone junco
@unkempt gulch ill never be mythic raider. so you guys will always beat me. 😃
fast nacelle
also garrote can fall off
unkempt gulch
why not
lone junco
i raid flex only
fast nacelle
i d like to flex you
lone junco
if i need time off, i go.
civic palm
harsh glacier
sometimes I let them fall off for a second or two so I can get g and r up at the same time for an exsg
civic palm
PFFFFFFFFFFT
unkempt gulch
gotcha
civic palm
noty
unkempt gulch
i pretty much log in to raid mythic and log off, do my +10 as well but log off again after lol
harsh glacier
@strange python why are there 15 FoKs in your casts on Fetid?
fast nacelle
mother tf first id idk what u are doing
unkempt gulch
yeah i was tryin to get a tf too
fast nacelle
strange python
oh im FoKing inbetween the pustule and him
fast nacelle
@lone junco
lone junco
yo
unkempt gulch
that 355 hurts
strange python
and keeping dots on both the pustule and him @harsh glacier
harsh glacier
FoK not really worth casting for 2 targets, maybe only to get poisons up
strange python
I see
strange python
wasnt it a 'fluff' dps gain?
lone junco
mother fucker
strange python
like youre meters will go higher but its not practical
unkempt gulch
wow
fast nacelle
called it... you just need to believe
harsh glacier
Nah, FoK is dps loss on 2 targets
harsh glacier
pretty sure its a dps loss on 3 targets tbh
strange python
ty
harsh glacier
this was posted the other day @strange python
General usage rules are now:
- Use Mutilate at 2 Targets always, swapping targets with Mutilate briefly if needed to reapply poisons to the second target (with or without Double Dose)
- Use Fan of Knives any time a target doesn't have Deadly Poison at 3 targets (or 3-4 with 2+ Ranks of Double Dose), otherwise use Mutilate on your primary target
- Use Fan of Knives spam at 4+ targets (or 5+ with 2+ Ranks of Double Dose)
fast nacelle
cba reporting it though but im sure sims is drunk sometimes
strange python
I was doing some ghetto math like
fast nacelle
idk since bfa i dont use fok that often..even in bigger packs i rather have my ruptures up on 2-3 priority targets.. i ll bring fok in when i m about to exsang a major target for max cp or slowing
harsh glacier
3 is basically use FoK to apply poisons, otherwise you're better off muting each target individually or just sticking on your prio
strange python
FoK does 1.6k per target so at 2 targets I get 3.2k damage for 35 energy when mut is 3.8k for 50 energy
lone junco
unless your crit is abnormally high, i prefer mut g. mut fok. one day we will fokf okf ofkokf okfok
its really smooth as well
fast nacelle
i got actually high crit in dungeons (if i do dungeons)
going for full crit mastery
lone junco
cool
fast nacelle
however you feel the difference in haste
fluid falcon
My parses suck
fast nacelle
it sucks
harsh glacier
yeah Im trying to nerf my haste with m+
fast nacelle
yeah it works
lone junco
but he pulls way bigger than we do
fast nacelle
yeah
harsh glacier
I'm at 13% haste and 23% crit atm 😦
fast nacelle
well high crit aint bad for lower keys aswell
sometimes i got like 35k dps randomly on bosses
cause of crit
and im like -welp..
lone junco
as long as we keep pulling 3 mobs, my group will think im a god
harsh glacier
I need that SS trait
fast nacelle
i miss old SS days
harsh glacier
I need moreeee
fast nacelle
give us 40% back
actually im considering playing only with 2 SS
cause 340 SS is kinda weaker than 385
lone junco
2ss 1 rupture will be my next move
fast nacelle
i got just a crit buff on 385
harsh glacier
Selia was saying he thinkg 2 ss 1 arch is probly bis
fast nacelle
idk the trait name
lone junco
bro. your Taloc makes me ill
does your dk grip out the adds or something
how do you get passed the elvator
fast nacelle
who
harsh glacier
stand in the blood and yell at healers to heal you
fast nacelle
i stay in pool
lone junco
I had a beacon for last attempt.
harsh glacier
pro logs strats
unkempt gulch
do you not kite the add in a circle with ur group?
lone junco
we just kite them like idiots
fast nacelle
just kill this shit
unkempt gulch
yikes
lone junco
range pwns. melee just Dick in hand
harsh glacier
some fights do like that
unkempt gulch
😛
fast nacelle
do you remember in old movies.. when the bad boy prepares for a fight with some warm up moves and bud spencer just slaps him out of his body
lone junco
rip acro
fast nacelle
dont be too complicated
just be bud spencer
slap these adds and dont try to be complicated
pull them out and smack em
lone junco
i had thought about not running prey. so i wouldnt boost ranged dps
fast nacelle
jeez
lone junco
i keed. but not
fast nacelle
this aint pvp - just slap these adds
unkempt gulch
full kidney on the add?!
unkempt gulch
lol
unkempt gulch
is that 30 seconds of 0 uptime
lone junco
i got split from group that time. and just watched them destory the add.
we have like 5 mages and 2 moonkins
karmic ingot
Taloc add phase is so frustrating.
unkempt gulch
i guess no one stacks and kites the add, we all literally group up and move slowly around the elevator in a circle kitting the add and everyone is able to hit it 100% of the time, new add comes out and repeat
lone junco
we are supposed to do that. but its def sloppy. will probably clean that phase up if we ever pull mythic.
adds die, we just have about 10 sec of the last one alive when we hit the floor.
opaque grotto
We have our ranged stand in one spot and drag the add in a circle with melee
unkempt gulch
yeah same here, i guess its mainly sloppy for you with a lot of ranged classes
opaque grotto
Our ranged doesn’t move
frosty gyro
FoK was really OP huh?
frosty gyro
Azerite trait + 100 talent + pvp talent
frosty gyro
I get nerfing the interaction of azerite traits but a 75% damage reduction on FoK because of an azerite trait just seems stupid
karmic ingot
When did FoK get nerfed?
frosty gyro
The Fan of Knives radius increase granted by Flying Daggers (PvP Talent) and Fan of Blades (Azerite Trait) no longer stack.
Fan of Blades effectiveness reduced by 75% when engaged in combat with enemy players.
Oh just fan of blades
lone junco
ah. idk about that.
lone junco
fok whites are important for 3x scent
misty remnant
Fixed a bug causing the bonus damage from Shrouded Suffocation to fall off if the rogue used Garrote on another target. WOO WOOO!!!
lone junco
its really nice for energy gain
and for not fucking your first 2g up when your 3rd is 1 sec oor
daring imp
@frosty gyro NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THEY TOOK OFF THE FREE RBG RATING
lone junco
was it that good?
i missed that boat for sure.
i was busy melting people with 4p20 ss exangs.
tropic heron
well guys i downed heroic zul today with my guild
thanks for all the help i think my dps increased a lot from your tips
lone junco
yay
harsh glacier
I tried sin on h zul the other day and my dps was so bad lol
frosty gyro
I think if you had 3x Fan of Blades and full stack hidden blades you could AOE crit 3+ players within a massive radius (37.5y) for like 60-80k ea?
Idk @daring imp how much did it hit for?
Seems pretty OP in RBGs
oblique fox
@harsh glacier what traits were you running?
harsh glacier
1ss and 2dd
Dunno why those italicised
But yeah I'm not optimised for raiding at all, but it felt like trash on zul
mellow pasture
THE BUG IS DEAD
civic palm
woop
mellow pasture
PRAISE SS
oblique fox
That should work, were you running subterfuge
daring imp
@frosty gyro so, when i was setup for teamfights all the rbg, i'd go for as high as 12~13k dps, with fok ranging from 40 to 60% depending on how much people were stacked
frosty gyro
Yeah that's pretty free rating
daring imp
i'm no genius and i know dps isn't all on an rbg, but the utility from aoe slow/mortal strike/smokebomb along with that stupid dmg
frosty gyro
Deserved nerf I guess
daring imp
yea definitely deserved
frosty gyro
Could probably hit for like 300k+ in a single fok depending on how many enemies around
daring imp
with 20 stacks and master assassin i'd see like 15~20k crits all around when opening
frosty gyro
Not Nightstalker?
daring imp
well i don't think there would be such a difference between the two of them
i mean, one is extra 50% crit and the other 50% dmg so
they kinda balance overall
frosty gyro
I guess
daring imp
tho the ma was better for regular fok'ing around
fok > rup all the way
i even had two sobs on my fan of blades setup ( because i didn't have other two fan of blades to use Ç_Ç )
shit was like 23yd range around me
lone junco
hooray i found 20k on my pally
daring imp
ooo you have repair monies now :X
daring imp
what
they stacked???????????
no effing way
WHY AM I ONLY HEARING OF THIS RIGHT NOW
lone junco
same
lone junco
i like meme bugs
onyx falcon
o yea... its fking funny how large your range is w/ those on
can just stand in the middle of a room n pull everything
gloomy fog
Hey guys, I saw someone change talent to marked for death instead of vigor for mythrax im guessin because of the little adds,do you think it worth doing?
onyx falcon
desert pelican
guys, someone in channel sent part of apl for simulating dungeon in simcraft. someone with high m+ exp, how do u find perfect build, use custom apl or just 4-5 targets 40 sec and we good?)
daring imp
@gloomy fog not that bad of an idea, he just has to cast it on the dying ones, mouse over with big range, dunno, specially on those visions that are a bit chaotic as fuck
@desert pelican 3~6 targets, 40s to 1min
depends on your tank, weekly affixes, your comp, stuff like that
desert pelican
@daring imp thx )
daring imp
i always yell at my tank for not pulling big
and double yell if he doesn't let me restealth before
desert pelican
maybe im luck, but in eu region 10+ keys tanks like never chainpull
or im just lucky ;D
alpine grotto
Tbh expansion is young and I have noticed lots of tanks don t like chain pulling .
daring imp
well i'm getting all the freaks on my groups then
it's like chain pullinng is the natural habitat of tanks when i pug
harsh glacier
so managed to just get 2x 340 SS azerite pieces in 2 runs then, so I can run 3x ss now at 3 total ilvl lower. Is it defs worth taking the ilvl hits for ss > sob etc?
gonna sim it, just wanted your guys opinions
plain cairn
In m+, yeah
harsh glacier
Yeah, I only care about m+ :p
slate agate
Fixed a bug causing the bonus damage from Shrouded Suffocation to fall off if the rogue used Garrote on another target.
I thought the bug was about reapplying it out of stealth
daring imp
well the 4th garrote was outside stealth/subterfuge
late moat
is it only me or some1 else also but when i use fok on group like 5 mobs i some times get only 2-3 CP per use
covert epoch
did they fix it @slate agate ?
dark token
late moat
ikr it's so stupid especialy since especially sub shuri storm dosn't act like this there
slate agate
@covert epoch yes I just saw a blue post
covert epoch
yeah i just check the pins it also says it fixed sorry about the tag
harsh glacier
I'm fairly sure FoK only gives 1 CP. You get bonus points per crit.
from Seal Fate
safe matrix
1pt+every enemy crit
harsh glacier
Yeah
digital locust
Could you cloak the shrooms at g'huun?
burnt dawn
!ss
thorn sierra
So if I'm doing mythic +, I have a choice between 2 SS or 1 SS and 1 archive what do you guys think would be better?
shy escarp
simyoself but my gut feeling is 2SS, archive isn't particularly great when you don't get reorigination array bonus
vernal mesa
are there any posts with trinket simulations?
nvm, i found it. It was in rogue general
peak harbor
Guys are any of you using Galecaller's boom in M+ ? its good only if i use it off cld right ?
peak rune
Is it normal that my logs are getting worse 2 days after I hitted them? Had 96 on vectis now its 94. Same happend last week
bitter crescent
is shrouded suffocation bug fixed?
meager quarry
Nop, pins are lying to you
undone blade
XD
river echo
!ss
silk carbon
wouldnt be the first time blizz trys to fix something and doesnt
strange python
b4 toxic blade, pooling is necessary?
silk carbon
generally tb on cd but you can pool energy before it comes off cd if yu dont need to refresh anything
silk carbon
then yeah
silk jolt
spice surge
feral spear
what's a good wa for tracking poisons and bleeds
compact bolt
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
daring imp
ye it is
solid lava
what was the bug on SS ?
daring imp
casting garrote outside of stealth/subterfuge would remove the SS bonus damage from currently active ones
ornate mantle
guys is there a difference in traits for myth+ ? and should i look them in bloodmallet?
light rampart
In the guide it only talks about cleave, but what if there are 5 targets or something, do we use fok? or just mut?
SS is supreme in all slots in m+ far as I know asses
ornate mantle
thanks
i would like to have a list if there is one
to know what to pick if i dont have that one
daring imp
shrouded suffocation is the best for m+
light rampart
there is actually a dungeon page on herodamage
torpid crag
Anyone saw the new Trait thats coming for Assa?
daring imp
but ideally you want all SS's
ornate mantle
ok thanks
velvet kernel
@torpid crag?
torpid crag
Uh its called Nothing Personal
vestal abyss
Also how do you check the pins on mobile
slate agate
Guys I feel I don't have to trust raidbot on this one https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2o1DZFbq4d2MZLSAuj8AGC
torpid crag
WoW Head
slate agate
just show i do more dps with DiB !+ Op instead of Archive of titans + Gutripper (both 355)
daring imp
well it makes sense since you already have 1 uldir trait
daring imp
overwhelming power alone is almost double the contribution of the gutripper based on sims
you gotta understand how that +5/+10 works
when you have 1 uldir trait
only one
you count the damage it contributes + the reorigination array stacks
every other uldir trait after the 1st one doesn't increase as much as the 1st one
because the reoriginattion array won't double/triple its maximum stacks
slate agate
mmm I see
daring imp
dagger in the back is like the second best trait you can have aside from having atleast 1 uldir trait
fallen sandal
ongbak, uldir traits like archive doesnt stack right ?
inland gull
archive does i think
shy escarp
archive stacks, reorigination does not
primal grove
shrouded suffication 340 vs archive 370 in M+?
cunning needle
does anyone run iron wire on the 75 talent tier?
the 15% damage reduction seems pretty good + more silence
carmine valve
For me haste is more value than main stat, but since I have galecaller trinket, should I not value haste as much as sims wants me to? I pretty much always try to do Exang with Galecaller trinket along with vanish/vandetta ?
torpid crag
@cunning needle I feel like Iron Wire is a must in Myth+
The silence on mage minions is rly strong
fallen sandal
there's no point taking internal bleeding or prey on the weak in pve anyway
nimble tartan
are u tellin me ive been kidneying bosses for no reason 😮
ebon garden
torpid crag
scenic saddle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/g55BXrK9u7kGBeUcsgYjDN
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mSxz8JopNrFRZteQDG9CXF
I got a question you can see on those sims, my galecaaler sims lower than pvp trinket, is this true? Or raidbot dosnt show its full potential?
scenic saddle
Soo i ssshould trust sim, and drop my gallecaller for now? ;d
nimble tartan
Its generally alwaya safe to trust raidbots
And if there is something wrong with raidbots for our spec for whatever reason or bug there would be a pin about it here most likely
scenic saddle
Oki ty will use on use then. Will be aablee to move freely , wwhoho 😄
brisk forge
Yeah gale isnt always easy to use in M+ especially with pug tank
slate jacinth
slate dust
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
oak maple
hey bois, quick question about the opener with SS and Exsanguinate for single target.
simcraft apl does: Garrote, Rupture, Garrote, Vendetta, Mutilate, Rupture, Exsanguinate
Fragnance does: Garrote, Rupture, Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, Vendetta, Exsanguinate
any idea which one ends up being more damage? I know it's minor, but not sure if it's worth vendetta-ing earlier just for that one mutilate (well and 1s worth of rupture damage)
oblique copper
not only a second from rupture, but also a second of empowered garrote
oak maple
hmmm that is true
oblique copper
I believe Fragnance does it wrong, but it doesn't matter because as you already said the difference is probably small
maybe he's used to that or there's some other reason for such opener
dunno
ornate mantle
why do we use toxic blade when we use vanish?
oak maple
yeah it's the most minor of minor optimizations, but it got me curious anyway
lapis chasm
Exsanguinate or Toxic Blade , wich one is better ?
meager aspen
Guys, should I go for poison bomb instead of CT in m+ ? Tank are always taking 3/4 mobs it piss me off
lapis chasm
when im simming i get 10 more dps with Toxic Blade but dunno why
daring imp
because they're similar in deeps?
depends on stat weights, azerite gear/traits ilvl, secondaries ... one will never be the clear winner compared to the other
daring imp
pb is also fine for m+, tho with ct you'll probably notice the difference on trash packs way more than on bosses
unless you multiproc pb
on the same pack
meager aspen
Well tanks are too shy in m+
daring imp
well make them be more crazy
just don't overpull too much
say "i got slows, you have to kite"
also bolstering management would be nice
meager aspen
Timing +10 on the edge because tank are pulling 2 mob with CC on ghuun one sigh
daring imp
i wish fetid devourer would drop its chest 😦
slim olive
sleek iron
my master assassin wins?
whats the rotation now omg
so used to shrouded exsang rotation
wtf
vanish for what.. 5cp envenom?
there is no guide now :
spice nymph
vanish for TB and use envenoms in MA window
frosty gyro
It's like it's like gar mut rup ven vanish tb mut env mut mut env or something
spice nymph
You most likely get a crit mut in MA window so only once for 2nd env
if not bad luck 
frosty gyro
Or wait
sleek iron
hmmm
frosty gyro
yeah
cunning needle
i think this has been discussed to death af ew times but what's the consensus of lining up your exsang with galecallers?
both in raid and in m+
frosty gyro
peak sapphire
daring imp
@sleek iron do a regular sim and click here ( there should be something like "full html report" ), go to "action priority list" and then "sample sequence table" to see the overall rotation the sim does
frosty gyro
Although you do have to keep in mind seal fate RNG is still a thing. The opener is generally solid though. It assumes you have hero in opener.
lost wharf
@daring imp Dude, what's your ilvl?
lost wharf
Ah, nvm. Didn't scroll that far up
daring imp
😛
dim pivot
so in higher mythics is sub or sin better? dumb question on logs i see assiassnation wrecking
lost wharf
Assa probably preforms better, but sub is definetly more fun to play
frosty gyro
Sin is overall better and Sub requires a different playstyle from what most people do where you just pull infested with packs constantly
To be optimal
lost wharf
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pYpdfVFB43CobffA1bDRXk Haste just doesn't devalue at all...
dim pivot
i prefer outlaw tbh.. but the st is just eh lol
frosty gyro
🤔
lost wharf
Dude I have 1495 haste and that's not even with the array
daring imp
24k sin rouges, 13k outlul, 7k sub
lost wharf
But the array is simmed there
dim pivot
i only got 1 ss and the rest are DD..
wraith sand
wound poison and deadly poison are not stacking, is this a bug?
daring imp
well they're both non-utility poisons so they shouldn't stack
frosty gyro
Does Harlan's Loaded Dice give base stat that affects array or something?
Why would the array stat change mid fight
daring imp
you can use the pvp talent to proc wound when deadly procs tho
lost wharf
No, they are both lethal poisons.
wraith sand
oh okay thanks
daring imp
@frosty gyro any crit proc changing it, crit procs overlapping for a brief moment, something like that
lost wharf
@frosty gyro Yea it does. Even your weapon enchants can change it
daring imp
like REALLY overlapping
frosty gyro
Huh I never knew that
lost wharf
It's a dynamical buff
dim pivot
so is ssx3 still best single target? or
daring imp
hell nah
dim pivot
is it double dose?
dim pivot
guess i need to get some daggers
daring imp
1x uldir trait ( laser and archive are really, ,really close to each other but archive is a tiny tiny bit ahead ) with 2x double dose, all 385 ilvl, so good luck on that
frosty gyro
Although nothing is really full ST these days so SS stays quite good
dim pivot
i got 2 385 ilvl dds.
frosty gyro
It's not that far under DD for normal ST
dim pivot
well i play outlaw but the 385s dont give me shit for traits
so i think about switching specs x.x
quaint flare
daring imp
well given you have those traits i'd say to do it lul
daring imp
yea i'm kinda on the same boat
accidentally coined g'huun for a 380 socketed outlul wep
frosty gyro
G'huun loot ew
lost wharf
I wanted to play sub aswell, but I got all haste gear and shit aswell as no sub traits while being nerfed to death, so yea... Playing sin now
dim pivot
^
daring imp
i was desperate, i still had a 340 chest back then Ç_Ç
dim pivot
ive always mained sin just kinda bored of it lol
i feel outlaw is great with the right gear but thats any class tbh
lost wharf
Outlaw doesn't feel like a rogue spec to me. Assa and Sub are more about planning your damage and looking what pulls are gonna happen and how to invest your cds there. Outlaw plays more reactive and rng/proc reliant. It doesn't fit in my eyes. Plays more like Furry or Enhancer
frosty gyro
Lol?
It's nice to have something that plays different
Also did you play combat in like any expansion?
lost wharf
I played it in WoD
daring imp
snek eyes is fun tho
lost wharf
So did I. Especially with that Soul Explosion trinket thingy
proud schooner
How good is Fathoms for Assassin atm? I heard someone say there are a lot of better options from the same Ilvl
frosty gyro
Azerite is a good system btw
daring imp
just need one more \o/ \o\ /o/
lost wharf
@proud schooner https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/trinkets/1t-t22-assassination
frosty gyro
Fathoms is stupid
daring imp
dice/gcb/doom's wake are other decent trinkets but fathoms will surely be a great pick for single target until you get some 380+ phat ones
proud schooner
Alright, thanks, wanted to be sure
frosty gyro
Just look at warcraftlogs sin rankings
daring imp
yea ^ that too
frosty gyro
Notice how like 80% of the top parses still use fathoms
daring imp
i can barely wait to drop a 395 ghuun trinket so i can use it for the luls
frosty gyro
Less on ZekVoz than the others but still 5th 6th and 7th place parse using it
I have a 370 ghuun trinket wish it wasn't hot garbage
Just change the vers to mainstat
Wow it's suddenly good
frosty gyro
Well yeah a 385 TF with socket would aobviously be better than fathoms
daring imp
oy i'd murder some puppies/kitties for that
frosty gyro
But a 370 with socket would probably be worse than fathoms
lost wharf
Goes nicely with this one https://gyazo.com/f6c2fc1819a02105fe990f77f54f311c
karmic ingot
@sleek iron MA/TB opener from SimC.
frosty gyro
yea
lost wharf
Troll rogue D:<
frosty gyro
So comparing fathoms to my 370 g'huun trinket in sims
fathgoms proc is 3.2% of dps, ghuun trinket is 2.7%
Yet fathoms has mainstat and ghuun hass vers
That makes sense
karmic ingot
My 370 G’Huun trinket has a perma spot in my bank.
Even if it simmed higher than Fathoms I still wouldn’t use it because stuff can be moved out of range of the procs.
Actually, I lied. It doesn’t have a perma spot in my bank. It will get demoted to the scrapper once I no longer need it for padding bag ilvl.
karmic ingot
I won’t scrap it until the next raid tier.
lost wharf
You don't get bag ilvl from banked items I think
frosty gyro
yeah that's safe
karmic ingot
If a new raid tier comes out before the trinket gets buffed, it’s never gonna get buffed.
Yes you do Doppel.
lost wharf
Can you just change your siminput race=orc to race=troll to find out how much dps gain switching would bring?
frosty gyro
Yeah troll is pretttty good for sin
Troll is the best race for so many classes due to low haste this expac
lost wharf
The low haste just comes from the stat squish and the first raid tier. Gonna be better in the last raid tier
frosty gyro
Yeah for most specs
shut magnet
0,73% if you sim around 15k yep
lost wharf
It's 0.66% for me. But it's still a lot I think
karmic ingot
0.7% DPS is roughly equivalent to 1-2 extra mutilate crits for a few extra CP or getting targeted by mechanics one less time in a fight.
lost wharf
Yea, and yet you still notice that difference in your post earlier about your trinkets
karmic ingot
Which post?
karmic ingot
Ah.
lost wharf
However it adds up, so yea
karmic ingot
Yeah it does.
But, my opinion is, if you have room to improve your gameplay, you’ll gain more than 0.7% DPS anyway. So if you’re not parsing 99th percentile every fight, you’ll get DPS out of getting better than you will out of race changing.
lost wharf
Yea, but you get even more dps if you race change on top
karmic ingot
Do you play outlaw or sub at all?
lost wharf
I like playing sub, but it's too garbage atm sadly
karmic ingot
Check out https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/races/1t-t22-assassination and look at the race charts for all 3 specs.
Most important thing is the scale of the charts. 2% is on the higher end, so we’re talking minimal overall differences anyway.
But troll is pretty low for outlaw and sub. It’s good for sin and very good for exsanguinate in particular.
lost wharf
I know all of that and I never said I'm gonna race change. It's just kinda annoying that it makes a bigger difference than a trinket change
What passive does Undead even have?
karmic ingot
They have a damage life steal proc.
It’s kinda shit honestly. I’m surprised it is simming high enough to not have them bottom tier for all of our specs.
lost wharf
It's the best for Outlaw, lol
lost wharf
Well belf gives you some utility besides a dps increase.
karmic ingot
Yeah, that’s why my rogue is blood elf 😃
Although to be honest, I actually think troll looks pretty cool. I’d probably play troll if it wasn’t for the utility of arcane torrent.
lost wharf
I wouldn't mind playing another race. I just don't wanna play my main as female and I'm not gay enough to play a male belf D:
lost wharf
Ah true, the DH patch made them change it up
karmic ingot
My guild moved from alliance to horde for BFA so I got to pick a new race for every character I transferred.
Monk and rogue both went to blood elf.
Rogue is female, monk is male. Neither one feels particularly gay haha.
lost wharf
Man, whenever I play sub I wish I'd play alliance
The extra stealth must be really nice
karmic ingot
Shadow meld?
lost wharf
Yea
karmic ingot
It triggers sub stealth requirements? I didn’t realize that.
lost wharf
Well I assume so as I can't think of another reason why it would be that far ahead
I like the new void elf too. And the ability to solo g'huuns orbs with it
strange python
did the garrotte bugg get fixed?
Yes
I gained 2-3k overall dps overnight for m10s lol
wow finally
Cant wait to try CT out. I have been running PB still just because people suck and even with ST traits i dominate both trash and aoe.
But think i may need to just trash pack hero it up and see what numbers i can pull
rigid sky
!ss
little sparrow
!ss
Last night i accidentally did a 4th garrote and noticed it.. thought it was anecdotal.. REJOICE BOYS
hollow mica
So, is sin's aoe still FoN and rupture on most targets?
magic thistle
!ss
karmic ingot
@lost wharf I think the Night elf sims are based on their racial haste/crit thing that changes from night and day.
lost wharf
No way 1% crit has that impact.
Troll gives 15% haste in the opener and is in sync with shadow blades.
karmic ingot
You have to look at the scale of the charts. The difference between night elf and blood elf is about .1%. The target error rate for the sims is 0.2%. That means anything less than 0.2% difference is statistically irrelevant.
lost wharf
First of all, they are 0.3% apart
Second of all, I don't mind the nightelf/belf being better. I just like the extra stealth
strange python
Racials are pretty much irrelevant. Belf aoe silence is still excellent but nothing game changing so just enjoy what you enjoy
lost wharf
It's a purge now, not a silence
strange python
After latest bout of sims i should have leveled my hunter hahs
@lost wharf oooo didnt know that
compact bolt
AoE purge. Its amazing since most dungeons have a pack or 2 that have dispellable buffs
frosty gyro
Yeah you might note that a lot of the bst horde M+ teams have like 4 BE
lost wharf
Yea, it's not like they didn't have that before tho...
The aoe kick allowed for way nicer big pulls tho than the purge
But that was actually fun and as we all know: Blizz doesn't like fun!
frosty gyro
So basically right now it's one of the best if not the best M+ racial, and it used to be better
wonder why it was nerfed
lost wharf
Coz of PvP
desert vault
I have seen so many dice drops yesterday and today. Just watched another 390 drop and here I sit with a 340.
frosty gyro
I haven't had a single dice drop
I'd like one too
Just got a 370 gcb which is nice I guess although I'm not a big fan of gcb
desert vault
I dont like gcb much either and I still run Tb so not as strong without exsang
frosty gyro
Well exsang is better than TB for me
I just don't like that there's the potential to get forced out of the circle
desert vault
I had someone switch loot specs for me, 370 drops and he cant trade of course
frosty gyro
I also really want some socket rings
fat chance of that though
Or some tf
Currently got 0 tf
desert vault
Yeah I did a 10 freehold and it dropped a dagger, boots and dice. Dagger is pretty awful though. I had to use but from 340 to 370 it was only 220 dps gain cause its stats are so bad
frosty gyro
I mean I have 2x zul dagger
Which is vers mastery
At least one of them has a socket and they're both 370
desert vault
Yeah freehold is vers mast too which isnt ideal but I'm only 359
frosty gyro
I actually DEd a 370 underrot dagger last week but I don't care enough to item restoration it for my oh
ornate mantle
guys what would be the choice of lvl 100 talents
because i saw the guide of ravenholdt
frosty gyro
What content?
ornate mantle
myth+ and raid
frosty gyro
M+ CT, Raid depends on boss usually poison bomb check logs
ornate mantle
ct always?
velvet kernel
How do we open on packs now in m+?
ornate mantle
i got a question aswell
@frosty gyro
do we ALWAYS use [besides the thing u said about posion bomb] use ct?
frosty gyro
In M+ yeah
ornate mantle
doesnt matter if its low or high m+?
frosty gyro
Eh low M+ might use poison bomb idk
ornate mantle
wich lvl should i do ct at the start
frosty gyro
Although if you run low M+ your group dps might be low so ct worth anyways
No clue check logs probably
frosty gyro
warcraftlogs
ornate mantle
ok thx
frosty gyro
And for M+ opener depends on traits
frosty gyro
Do you have it?
clear mantle
So I've been building my kit for single target but trying to build a set for M+, just wondering in M+ is Master Poisoner viable or stick with Elaborate Planning?
desert vault
I just garrote rupture everything in sight :)
frosty gyro
Ok then GGG CT
ornate mantle
also another question
toxic blade the guide says in coldown literally
but , if im not using envenom next?
frosty gyro
Well it depends on # of mobs really
Refresh you dots and poolenergy so envenom is next
2 mobs go GGG R Mut R
3 mobs GGG CT Fok R Fok R Fok R
ornate mantle
mmm ok thanks , so in coldown but whenever i can use envenom next
frosty gyro
4+ GGG CT G Fok R Fok R Fok G R
Well you should be managing timers and pooling energy in a way that rupture won't need to be refreshed during TB or right after it so you can just do envenoms
desert vault
Are you rotating the garrote around on each target right?
frosty gyro
It's fine to refresh garrote during it as a cp builder though
Basically put garrote on things that don't have garrote and don't override SS
ornate mantle
also on 2 mobs you say GGG , do you use 3 times garrote on the mobs? or once each
ornate mantle
so one of em gets 2 uses and the other one once
frosty gyro
Yes
desert vault
The 3rd is for combo poi ts really
ornate mantle
didnt knew that , thanks for the tip very much
tropic heron
wait is the zul dagger better than the mother dagger?
desert vault
No Mother is best
frosty gyro
Because the first mob you garrote is going to tick down to 16 seconds before you reapply a 23.4 sec garrote meaning you get 7.4 seconds of SS
desert vault
Mother and Tol are prolly two best
frosty gyro
Which is better than anything else you can use a gcd on
tropic heron
i think the pvp dagger is pretty good too actually
desert vault
Yeah its ok
tropic heron
dread gladiators shanker
desert vault
Good stats
lilac lily
Combo points and getting more duration on one of the empowered garrotes
lone junco
Just so we are clear. In a trash pack, the ggg goes on 3 different mobs in the first 3 moves. You can tab or manually select the elites.
I never thought that was unclear. But no we aren't garroting the same mob 3times.
ornate mantle
but you can do him 2 times right?
lone junco
In a single target condition we do 2
In a trash pack with a super baddy you might do 1 elsewhere and 2 on the prio.
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lone junco
But in a 6t cleave. We spread them out.
ornate mantle
ok thanks
sleek onyx
How many mobs/dots are required to sustain fok->ct spam
lone junco
The first garrote is 18 seconds. About 80k damage (for me). We do 3 of those.
If you double up on one target it jumps to 23seconds or about 100k damage.
lost wharf
That depends on your stats
sleek onyx
Dependent on my haste?
lost wharf
And crit luck aswell
lone junco
@sleek onyx General wisdom is that. Once your garrotes are out and ruptures are up. If you are to env or refresh Ct early is around 6t
Unless vendetta is out.
lost wharf
But generally if you have a pack that big you are either gonna insta kill it or it has a prio target that you need to focus.
For me personally I see myself going close to energy cap at around 3 ruptures. It takes forever tho to get them all up coz you gotta keep ct up aswell
sleek onyx
yeah, I'm just struggling to figure out what is worth more. 2/3 point rupture to get more energy to fok->rupture more targets, or wait for 5 point rupture
lost wharf
That's just Taloc tho. Try Fetid
lost wharf
@sleek onyx Depends on how long the target lives. If you get the full duration off then 5cp is worth more
compact parrot
!ss
lost wharf
What exactly? The combo points? Health and energy?
strange python
just the whole thing in general since I can see everything on WA or my nameplate
lone junco
@sleek onyx in early pack setup I will use low cp ruptures to get the energy return rolling.
Either garrote FOK rupture. Or mut FOK rupture. Works well and relatively fast. My crit is low and FOK FOK FOK is not something I want to be doing.
But at 4g 4r. E is basically capped.
sleek onyx
yeah, that's what I was wondering, the low ruptures just to get stuff rolling
lone junco
Can't even spend it
lost wharf
You can either replace it with an addon like ElvUI or remove it in the interface options
I doubt that is the best way tho tbh
lone junco
Once you transition to 2scent 1ss. We will be rupturing a billion things. And spamming FOK all day. But my group doesn't pull large enough.
lost wharf
@lone junco
lone junco
Ive been messing with that post ss fix. And like it a lot.
The apl is very rigid in aoe sims. And they said it isn't perfect. I think there is a blend of mut. G. FOK. Depending on your e at the time.
It's really smooth a well.
And we pull 3-5. So raw FOK is absolutely not my answer.
boreal apex
In aoe(3-5 targets) is it worth to cast envenom or just hold rupture up and spam fan of knives
lone junco
Once your ruptures are out and garrotes are up. You will need to either CT or Env.
With the lower mob count. Keep Ct uptime and use env for filler.
3t we use mut. As long as each mob has poison.
That's been discusssd in #tc-updates recently.
strange python
got 385 legs from mother
bonus rolled 395 legs
🤔
does anyone have a weak aura for just the utility cloak sprint kick vial blind etc
lone junco
Our guild has a voodoo theory that bonus coins work better if you just won an item.
lone junco
Might be a blp overlap with the bonus coin.
If the blp is checked on boss pull. Then the win and coin could overlap.
But that's all voodoo 🤔
supple hearth
ebon garden
vague portal
^ this helped me top the charts 
celest idol
Who else is still trying to get used to being able to garrote that fourth mob on pulls?
fading spade
o/
candid jasper
!ss
fading spade
fixed!
lost wharf
I wish my tanks would pull more than 3 mobs QQ
lost wharf
Actually you should CT Dx
fading spade
On trash packs it's best to get the 3 empowered garrote.
Regardless of cp waste. You get 3 gcds in subterfuge window
lost wharf
Yea, but you mentioned the 4th
You should 3 garrote, ct, garrote
So you don't waste the 4th garrote cp
thorn pasture
when should i reapply bleeds when i used exsanguiate? after they ran out?
marble gale
whats CT
mint oar
Why do we want to get double mutilate during the encenlm timer?
barren marsh
I could use some memes too tbh
lavish raft
CT = Crimson Tempest. A talent in the last tier of the Assassination spec.
Reapply your bleeds at 1second or less after exsanguinate. You want as many damage ticks as possible without losing the “7 energy per bleed tick” buff.
icy pollen
huhu, so I got the galecallers boon trinket, do i have to apply bleeds while i have it active to get the bleed ticking faster?
or can i use it after i applied them?
frosty gyro
The only thing that snapshots haste is exsang apparently
Personally not a fan of galecallers though
icy pollen
why? it seems pretty strong
frosty gyro
Because you have to stand in it
And it's really easy to get forced out by boss mechanics or spastic tanks moving the boss
vapid moth
Go out there and downvote
strange python
so with shrouded suff rotation is stealth garrote rupture garrote vendetta toxic blade envenom mut envenom then wait for garrote to fall off vanish garrote garrote maintain rupture with sub
carmine valve
You dont exang with SS?
frosty gyro
Sometimes if you only have 1ss tb is better
icy pollen
if you have exsang i can just imagine that you should go with -garrote -garrote -rupture -exsang - vendetta no?
carmine valve
Garrote-Rupture-Garrote-Vandetta-Mutilate-Rupture-Exang
icy pollen
why?
carmine valve
I never did
frosty gyro
Not talking to you @carmine valve
icy pollen
Garrote-Rupture-Garrote-Vandetta-Mutilate-Rupture-Exang, so this is the best then?
icy pollen
so, do you guys sim more with exsang?
carmine valve
People will go exang or Toxic blade depend on what azerite they got
grizzled harness
Hey, is there a diff where you put the weapon enchant?
carmine valve
as far as I know you dont need SS to play Toxic blade
icy pollen
i have shrouded suffocation and still sim 300 less with exsang
karmic ingot
TB sims higher for me. Exsanguinate is within 1% though. It’s close enough that you can play whichever you prefer or whichever you have better traits for.
carmine valve
wasnt there a google spreadsheet explaining Exang/TB opener?
languid ore
Exsang and tb sim 1% of each other. I use tb because it smooths out the rotation better for me
icy pollen
Whats more up to date, Raidbots or Simulationcraft? I do sim a lot more on raidbots
karmic ingot
Raidbots uses SimC.
strange python
@languid ore thats not really rrue
!rotation
fuck
@languid ore It dpends on ur traits and secondary stats
karmic ingot
Probably the settings you chose in the app are different than the default settings on raidbots.
carmine valve
Reorigination array?
fervent stream
Is there a list of the best Azerite traits for PvP?
icy pollen
ay thanks
languid ore
So I choose to because it's easier.
languid ore
Yes I meant for me
icy pollen
oh ye, seems like simcraft addon uses 6 min fights and raidbots 5 min
fading spade
If you guys want a true comparison do a top gear sim on raidbots
It will do all possible azerite traits and talent options and tell you the best for you
karmic ingot
Yeah, you can choose multiple talent setups on top gear.
fading spade
Theres no such thing as cookie cutter really anymore
olive egret
!ss
frosty gyro
If Exsang and TB sim close together I would always pick Exsang it's far easier to play optimally with Exsang compared to TB
keen hound
I mean I would say the exact opposite. TB is far easier to execute than exsang
icy pollen
yea same, feel like TB is easier
frosty gyro
Exsang is literally just a button you hit basically on CD after refreshing your dots
TB you have to pool energy and make sure you have rupture not falling off within like 14 sec of using it every time
languid ore
You don't have to pool tb
keen hound
exsang is far easier to mess up than simply using tb on cd
frosty gyro
If you don't pool for tb you aren't playing it optimally though
languid ore
You literally have to watch rupture and garrote fall and apply them accordingly with exsang
frosty gyro
How do you even mess up exasng?
keen hound
how do you even mess up tb?
frosty gyro
What I just said
languid ore
And tb optimally is on cd
frosty gyro
You don't pool and can't get enough envenoms off or you have to refresh rupture during it
languid ore
Some dude did the math
And waiting around for everything to be perfect for 2 envenoms isn't worth waiting for
karmic ingot
You can use it on CD and still pool.
strange python
@languid ore So, you let the dots fall off, reapply them and use exsang?
languid ore
I don't use exsang
I tried it, I thought it was ok but with tb I didn't have to constantly look at them
I just keep rotation going
karmic ingot
Your window for refreshing rupture is like 1/3 of the CD of TB. It’s pretty easy to make sure you won’t need to refresh rupture during TB without having to clip the pandemic range on rupture.
frosty gyro
It's actually impossible to not have to clip the pandemic range on rupture with TB to avoid using rupture in TB
Due to rupture duration and TB CD being at odds
Unless you use s certain amount of 4cp ruptures but I haven't played TB in a while i don't remember the specifics
karmic ingot
Yeah, I might be wrong about that actually. I haven’t really played TB much at all.
It just doesn’t seem that difficult. You get a 7.2 second window to refresh rupture, followed by a 24-31.2 second window to mut mut TB, then dump energy and CP into envenom.
frosty gyro
If you look at the logs of high parsing TB players you'll notice that there's a LOT of pooling going on and they always get 2-3 envenoms in TB
mut mut TB lol
TB doesn't always come off CD in the rupture pandemic window
karmic ingot
You want to have TB getting you to 5 CP right? So your next global is envenom?
strange python
you get 2 envenoms without pooling
karmic ingot
Like I said, I don’t play TB.
frosty gyro
You sometimes get 2 without pooling
strange python
Always actually
frosty gyro
You can get only 1 if you don't pool and are unlucky with crits