Idk if that's right tho
#assassination
upper island
g m r
hazy sphinx
23% haste in raid feels so damn good
round harbor
To a certain point
lone junco
my haste is drooping around 23%
round harbor
I've hit pretty extreme points where haste loses value
blazing scroll
because i heard if fights are long enough to get another vendetta/vanish
you'll be much better stacking crit/mastery
is it true?
lone junco
@blazing scroll fok likes crit for cp gen. that is true.
summer marten
for me its still haste nr1 stat, even though im at 1370 haste before array... and have 3 overwhelming power traits
lone junco
if the array doesnt stack you are only gaining 1 bonus to haste right
lone junco
fight length can be changed in sims. 1m 2m 10 min.
test your stat weights on an array of times.
gl
summer marten
67 haste per stack, heh, thats huge haste from overwhelming power trait proc
summer marten
haste proc 😃
void pecan
pastel wasp
alliance scum
dark token
and its STILL biss on sub and outlaw
hybrid chasm
how comes dooms wake gets better with MA?^^
dark token
my 355 galecallers beats every other trinket, wish i could get 370 lol
median badge
tb or exsan?
summer marten
doom's wake is nr1 for tb apparently, and gc is untouchable for exsan
summer marten
at least according to herodamage list 😃
frosty gyro
So I just got some nice heroic logs 98 Taloc, 99 Mother, 99 Fetid
Just realized I had CT on instead of poison bomb
exotic glen
gj
misty plover
had the same issue on mythic vectis 8(
alpine pilot
hazy sphinx
i could have gone even higherrrr
opal meadow
does shadowmeld put you in stealth for subterfuge?
pearl fulcrum
Does exanguinate become better at a certain haste point?
frosty gyro
it becomes better when you have like 2 ss
waxen blaze
When should you pool energy as an assa? To not overlap elaborate planning and/or envenom or is it not much of a difference, i can't get above the 95% Ilvl in Logs. Can anyone help?
short token
how do i keep up with aoe on mythic zek? i'm spamming CT during add phase and i do half the dmg as everyone else
waxen blaze
@short token Are you capped by energy or by global CD?
short token
global cd
waxen blaze
Strange normally spaming CT with like 6 bleeds up for the energy is OP as fk damagewise
ruby idol
You play for boss and void weaver dmg as sin
waxen blaze
@short token assuming since you're playing Mythic you use Vanish for the empowered garrote on 3 Targets
short token
@waxen blaze absolutely doing that
hollow stone
I hate to be "that guy" but for aoe on zek, you go outlaw to keep up with the other peoples' aoe
Or you do what dad said. Drop some ct but focus shadoweaver and crush in p2
short token
yeah i gotta practice outlaw
waxen blaze
Sure that's a possibility but i guess other assas still can keep up according to logs (dont know if they are fudged tho)
short token
yeah i'm at the top on single target
hollow stone
Outlaw is ahead by avg 2k dps on m zek
lucid bolt
hey guys thanks for tthee awesome advice im raiding tonite and i got top dps on one fight and second on another
peak breach
We still wanna know what enchants you switched to get that 400 dps increase @lucid bolt
lucid bolt
3the deadly and quick
peak breach
So you running deadly in mh, and quick oh like you should or you go quick mh, deadly oh? I’m at work so can’t sim it for myself.
opaque tree
it doesn't matter which hand the enchant is on
peak breach
Then why does it sim different on raidbots?
Because mh enchant can procc on all spells right? While oh enchant can only procc on auto attacks.
lucid bolt
im doing quick on main and deadly on off @peak breach
karmic ingot
Anyone here running TB with a Galecaller trinket? What's a good way to try to align trinket use with the 1 min CD?
quiet spruce
hey guys, I know there isnt an ideal way to sim for M+, that being said, what is the settings you guys use to best replicate a M+ setting?
patch work 6 boss 40 sec?
frigid sleet
& no buffs
frigid sleet
yea, personnaly I prefer to do 4 boss instead of 6 but it all comes down to you
strange python
playing assassination is kinda like a hot bath
visual token
Good and then the water gets cold?
thin ingot
what would you prefer, scent of blood or blood rite for M+?
tired helm
does fan of knives only ever award 1 combo point no matter how many targets?
balmy perch
so looking at the wowhead 8.1 notes they are buffing ss?
wild gyro
Link?
olive egret
That would be odd if true
civic palm
Probably a dmg formula refactoring and not a buff.
analog glade
Ss is up for 8.1 ?
hazy sphinx
Orange parses all around and I even forgot to use poison bomb. Used CT all the way till Ghuun
tired helm
is CT good?
strange python
What’s the alliance race people are playing?
plain spruce
is there any harm or benefit from using crippling poison
exotic glen
you slow any enemies you attack
plain spruce
dps wise, like does the poison proc take up a instant poison proc
frosty gyro
Is it normal for logs to be in queue for like 3 hours?
hollow stone
More often, cripp is good to use
Very odd. Its odd for them to be longer than 3 seconds lol
frosty gyro
Guild logs have been in queue for 3 hours not updating leaderboards
coral cosmos
Does anyone ever use Construct Observer?
frosty gyro
Nope
coral cosmos
hmm Fathoms + Plume of the Seaborn Avian still simming as highest
though i have a dooms, frenetic, construct
thin ingot
construct and frenetic are shit
frosty gyro
frenetic isn't that bad
crisp storm
Any thoughts on 1 scent and 2 SS for m+ this week w/ fortified? Thinking for keys 10+ .. would also be gaining 100 agi from the ilvl upgrade
quiet spruce
that's what im runnign rn
1 scent and 2ss, its going good, but ive got nothing to compare to besides other dps on meters
crisp storm
yea I feel like it's hard to properly measure it
quiet spruce
i like scent
so my M+ gear set, i stacked crit and mastery as it says in guide
and now i have 6% haste 29% crit and 30% mastery
super slow energy regen on bosses, cuz only two bleeds up, but dmg is somehow still good even though it feels clunky
silk prairie
hey guys o/ im new to playing assassination rogue and would like to know if the talents listed on ravenhold are still the best way to go :)
south pendant
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
waxen blaze
https://wago.io/VkcUyO8t- Ipse's WA's are also great for almost every class
coral cosmos
Is there a trick to poisoning one of the globs as assa for heroic fetid?
someone in vent just mentioned that but I can't seem to find anything related
civic palm
?
fierce turtle
do you mean before the bloodfall ends or what? i dont get it
otherwise poison apply to them just like any other mob
coral cosmos
Hmm i guess their goal was to kill one mob, leave the other for him to eat - and then the guy said there is a rogue trick where you poison the orb you are going to let him eat, and it does more dmg to him or something
I dunno
silk prairie
someone can show me their talents? im new to assassination and need some help :D
fierce turtle
Eh sounds like trolling tbh :p
deft thistle
Hey guys, first time posting in here. I'm parsing like trash in bfa and wondering if I could get some help. From what I can see I have shitty secondary stats but all the gear I have on sims highest, including my shitty but high ilvl trinkets. Also wondering about shrouded suffocation, it doesn't sim the highest on bloodmallet but i see almost every rog taking it. Here are my logs from last nights raid. any tips are appreciated: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9XngV6DkNamTfY74/ character name Mahdi
primal gazelle
this piece took me 2.5 hours of scraping/crafting and 200k, and it gave me the worst possible stats 😦
quaint hawk
guys
I just got a 385 dagger w/ socket off mythic mother
and bonus rolled a second w/o a socket
cheesing rn
hollow jungle
I’m digging our datamined new azerite trait 😃 nice opener dps
@deft thistle what’s your opener?
Your boss positioning seems off...missing a lot of auto attacks, and your bleeds are missing about 8% total uptime
flint swift
super scrub question... if i killed mother and didn't use a bonus roll, can i kill her again, use a bonus roll, and get bonus loot?
or is that not a thing?
solid.
thanks man
thin ingot
guess who just won the dagger and bonus rolled the ring from mother
not me, a freaking trial rog did
i hate this game
civic palm
Good for him.
thin ingot
he diiiiiieeeeeeeeeeed to beeeeeeeaaaaaaaaams
static wind
Mother has a favorite child.
deft thistle
@hollow jungle garrote mut till 4 rup vendetta mut tb vanish envenom mut garrote
civic palm
Yeah Blizzard clearly likes him better than you.
thin ingot
frosty gyro
What breakpoint?
primal gazelle
reforged to the same stats kms
hollow jungle
Ah man, I run the ss opener not familiar with that opener
dark token
a breakpoint where its not as good to stack pure haste
frosty gyro
Why?
flat portal
im pretty sure that haste never loses vaule as long as you keep up the crit aswell right ?
deft thistle
@hollow jungle i run 2 DD and have shoulders with bad traits, would you say its worth to farm shoulders that have ss?
dark token
its still my best stat yes
frosty gyro
And I don't think haste has any breakpoints
flat portal
and didnt they remove the ability to breakpoint cause of halfticks that they introduced
dark token
its not a very hard breakpoint
my vers mastery gloves with socketed haste
beat +15 ilvl gloves haste crit
when i go above this value
hollow jungle
@deft thistle if you get a ss trait and stack haste. Exhang opener will help you parse on those 2 minute kill times
dark token
and lose when i go below this value
the pieces that become good vary based on my total haste
is that 1680 haste in raid?
when i have high haste, this gloves/bracer combo wins
when i have low haste, this gloves/bracer combo wins
deft thistle
@hollow jungle ok awesome thanks for help
fading spade
@primal gazelle how did you reforge?
dark token
its not necessarily a breakpoint but haste becomes less good
before its super mega top stat
now its super top stat
fading spade
My crit is hurting badly right now
dark token
the terminology is arbitrary and they are synonyms
you can plot a haste stat curve and see it
its slight but there
i think inflection points is a more accurate word
frosty gyro
I mean there might be a haste breakpoint when you get an extra garrote tick on your SS garrote since you can't pandemic that
safe matrix
also theres a point where you just have too much energy regen
you cant spend it fast enough
frosty gyro
On ST?
ionic charm
lol I was like "damn we're gonna reach 55 energy regen per second? damn"
broken crypt
fading spade
1203 haste rating. 18% base, 24% in raid cuz of RA. Energy regeneration is shit
Forever starved
round harbor
rank 6 vectis ^.^
if we killed like 3 pulls earlier wouldve been rank 1 by like 500
zzzzzzzzzzzz
primal gazelle
@fading spade you scrap it and make it again
fading spade
You get all your mats back?
primal gazelle
you get your sanguinci back
fading spade
Oh wow...
primal gazelle
it cost about 100k per reforge depending on your server
fading spade
Good to know. Still farming expulsom to make my first pair
@round harbor so jealous of those stats. Is that haste base? Or with RA up
round harbor
RA in raid
fading spade
Still sweet. I'm trying to get my crit up I'm hurting at 19%
primal gazelle
took 3 tries for this but worth it
cost me about 375k total to craft 3 pairs, including leveling up LW from scratch
frosty gyro
Man I want these logs to stop being in queue I have a 97-99 on every heroic boss for sin now
halcyon tulip
https://i.gyazo.com/5dd048b5bfc1be9c44ddf1166baf380d.png this was my first try
round harbor
debating on doing that
but i have 370 feet with socket and i doubt and crafted 385 would beat them
primal gazelle
its super tedious
the whole process took 3 hours
of crafting bracers just to scrap them for expolsum
im contemplating life choices rn lol
spent 200k to gain 80 dps, then spent another 150k on reforging to gain 6 dps
SIX dps
my god
round harbor
seems awfully not worth
primal gazelle
yea... now that i think about it
i thought the reforging to haste high from verse high would be a huge gain but nope
dark token
your opener
is super bad
your opener
directly affects garrote dmg
start at vectis
tricks tank
sprint
garrote rupture garrote
vendetta mut rupture
exsang
then when 1st add comes out
vanish, garrote boss
garrote add
garrote boss
rupture add
unless you ruptured it with your cp pre vanish
warm parcel
Whats PK doing in there anyway
warm parcel
yikes
warm parcel
You have no vanish cast what so evr
the second exsang is a wet noodle
both dots are refreshed way before exsang itself
and exsang is sitting on cd
peak jungle
Is subterfuge worth it if none of my azerite pieces have SS? My sims are providing mixed results
warm parcel
mixed as in?
tropic heron
whats TB?
round harbor
toxic blade
round harbor
takes 0 iq to play it vs exsang which is substantially harder
tropic heron
people just told me to play it since all my traits are double dose
fading spade
Since they sim even for me I prefer tb
flint swift
Really? I think exsang is way easier.
round harbor
its harder to min max than tb
tb is just get 2 evneom s in the window and ur gucci
3 inside vendetta window
glacial steppe
Im so unlucky with sin in terms of gear lately. I have 1 370 chest which has PW on it and is literally no upgrade at all but on the same page it has BiS trait for sub. Not getting any valuable haste/crit items doesnt help either. Right now im better off playing sub which tilts me to the point where i want to quit.. big fucking yikes
flint swift
Dog just take the rng hit and play what’s fun for you. Bad rng with gear WILL even out
glacial steppe
i hope so because its disgusting at this point especially when you have 3 more rogues in your guild which all are super lucky
tropic heron
did an alt run on my guild
this dudes alt rogue got a 390 titanforged dagger
from normal
i didnt even know it was possible
glacial steppe
it shouldnt be?
round harbor
its not
glacial steppe
arent weapons only supposed to forge 10 ilvl
round harbor
weapons can only TF +15
round harbor
is it 10
?
tropic heron
i was so jealous
crisp hollow
got the fetid chest from H, even one SS trait makes me feel like a god in M+ holy shit
glacial steppe
we are going to progress zek voz starting today and i dont have a azerite item from uldir yet
tropic heron
zev koz mythic?
tropic heron
damnn
crisp hollow
if your raid isn't great at handling personal responsibility mechanics, you have plenty of time to get better azerite for a Zek parse
tropic heron
well man if it makes you feel better man i think you are cool still
glacial steppe
and one of our 3 sins who has insane sin gear simply plays outlaw cause he likes it bit more
xd
hot snow
imagine sharing your logs for feedback and getting pm'd about the outlaw rogue in the parse 😐
rapid stag
daring imp
@mint osprey will do the remaining 3 matches tomorrow, we lost too much today fml
gusty parcel
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
candid wraith
prisma monolithBOT
Uldir tips and tricks: http://www.ravenholdt.net/uldir-tips-tricks/
pastel wasp
only clos laz0rz
dark token
civic palm
mmm, wonder what someone is going for.
elfin thicket
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
elfin thicket
Simming ST is clear for me, but what parameters do i have to fill to sim multi target, hectic add cleave 1 boss?
copper hawk
I have 2 SS traits unable to get a piece with a third trait. Is it worth dropping and running single SS for archive in Uldir?
round harbor
Yes
vestal dune
I know this is situational and it depends what we ate struggling with, but on vectis mythic do you exsanguinate the boss or the adds after the 1st interphase?
normal flint
does galecallers boon work with toxic blades and exsang?
wanton wagon
@copper hawk SS is only broken strong in m+, in raids it's pretty average
wild gyro
There a note or pin for MA opener?
wild gyro
ahhh righto, ty
signal salmon
As I see in apl MA opener is broken. Bot using vanish with 0 cp. Wtf
slender hare
its because it wants you to use tb while under MA buff
silk carbon
What opener do I use once i finally replace my last SS piece?
broken fiber
yes @silk carbon
slender hare
depends on if you have subter or MA,, check the guide
silk carbon
ok cheers
stone quartz
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
hollow jungle
Why would you replace ss, so nice
hollow jungle
Meh, I like 2 archive 1 ss. Opener so smooth
silk carbon
Yeah? i was told to go 2x archive one laser
silk prairie
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
glacial steppe
just watched the m+ guide from fragnance and im a bit confused tbh. his sin opener is gar > rup > gar > mut > rup > vendeta > exsang but the opener on ravenholdt is gar > rup > gar > ven > mut > rup > exsang
nimble tartan
im using 2 archive 1 sharpened 😃
hollow jungle
Probably preference. But I’m not giving up my exhang/ss opener dmg and vanish add blowup
hollow jungle
Nice, I also have that...now to Farm galecaller
sacred flint
ikr, this never happens
nimble tartan
im just using toxic blade me likey
silk carbon
Is it really worth the ease of opener though to take an ss over laser matrix?
im looking at bloodmallet with x5 rea stacks and it looks like its way ahead of it
like not by a tiny amount
nimble tartan
if u have no other uldir trait then it wouild be best to take the laser matrix to activate RA stacks
silk carbon
laser matrix with x5 rea stacks is 1128 dps
1x ss is less than half of that
am i reading it wrong?
nimble tartan
right nothing competes with an uldir trait that activates RA
but remember after the 1st uldir trait it goes back to normal value
turbid sapphire
i just heard vendetta is going to take a nerf next xpac?
timber nexus
Archive of the titans in m+ alright?
turbid sapphire
patch not xpac lol my bad
silk carbon
how do you mean it goes back to normal value omr?
sacred flint
think itlls be 77 days for each patch again?
silk carbon
help me out i am not clever
sacred flint
would be oct 30th for 8.1 if so i think
shrewd night
Value of trait activating RA - 9000%
Value of trait when not activating RA - 1%
timber nexus
Oki
silk carbon
So should I use 1x ss in raid with 2x archive or laser matrix for most dps?
jaunty lagoon
i run 1xSS, 1xLM and 1xAotT
silk carbon
Yeah thats what im not getting
if it does half the dps
why are people using it in raid
jaunty lagoon
SS?
silk carbon
yes
stiff leaf
For the extra combo point
silk carbon
on bloodmallet one ss is 400 dps while one laser matrix with 5roa is 1100
jaunty lagoon
still does good damage, gives you 3 combos
peak breach
If having 4cp and having to refresh rupture. Is it worth use FoK just to get 5cp refresh or should you just go for that 4cp refresh?
jaunty lagoon
on uldir there are a lot of multi target fights
slender hare
But you can’t go solely from Bloodmallet, that’s from a preset profile, your own gear is different
jaunty lagoon
vanish then 3x garrote with SS is really strong
silk carbon
Yeah
slender hare
One SS might be better or worse for you, compared to what it says on Bloodmallet
signal salmon
There is hi reason to use tb in MA window, I feel better to cast mut tb then vanish env mut env
No*
nimble tartan
@silk carbon the x5 Laser matrix/archive with stacks is for the first uldir trait only
silk carbon
I have one SS the reason i am asking is because the other rogue who has less overall ilvl than me keeps outdpsing me by a slight margin
nimble tartan
the next ones u have do not stack the stack
nimble tartan
so it goes back to normal value which u will find on the chart
for example i use 2 archive 1 sharpened
thats just how my gear came about
slender hare
It depends on what pieces you have. In raid I use 370/370/385, no SS pieces, because all my SS are 340, so not worth using in raid over my other pieces
silk carbon
I didnt think you could get ss on higher pieces than 340
nimble tartan
i actually have the 385 ss chest from fetid but still use my 385 sharpened over it
silk carbon
i thought all the higher pieces are uldir armor
slender hare
You can in chest, or from Fetid
silk carbon
Oh
jaunty lagoon
just sim yourself
jaunty lagoon
i found that my highest sim is with that combination of traits
i have 355 helm, 355 shoulder and 370 chest
silk carbon
according to sims by all accounts i should outdps the other rogue but it doesnt turn out that way in the logs
hes always ahead by 200-500 dps
nimble tartan
im 385/370/385
i have a 385 shoulder but it only has meticulous planning and fan of knives
a shame
jaunty lagoon
@nimble tartan i don’t do mythic;(
slender hare
Yeah I have a 385 shoulder with SoB which I don’t use :/
jaunty lagoon
do you use flask and food?
nimble tartan
whats sob
slender hare
Yeah, it’s worse than a 370 with archive for me
nimble tartan
feelsbadmang
zinc furnace
385 shoulders with sob sim lower than 370 titans for me. Same story
slender hare
Damn
jaunty lagoon
ripppppp
slender hare
Yeah
jaunty lagoon
i got the zekvos ring last night, now my highest secondary stat is crit so i’m uldir i have 32 or more crit but low haste
ebon surge
Anybody know what the haste breakpoints are for extra dot ticks?
slender hare
Thought about going 2 340 SS and 1 385 SoB for m+, but still think 3 340 SS is better
jaunty lagoon
i may just run triple SS for m+
zinc furnace
Sorry guys if this gets discussed a lot here on daily basis, but when do we use Exs instead of TB in talents for M+? Is it affix specific? Have no SS traits sadly
nimble tartan
prettyu much always use exsang triple ss in m+ tbh
zinc furnace
If only had ss pieces
jaunty lagoon
so do you just do 3x garrote then exsang straight away? never tried it
jaunty lagoon
okay ty will try it tonight
peak breach
So, for ST when at 4cp and needing to refresh rupture. Do I FoK just to get that 5cp refresh rupture or do I simply refresh with 4cp? I mean if the only thing is that I have to refresh rupture sooner than with 5cp, it's just not worth wasting a global on FoK.
solid nova
No, Finishers on 4+, No need to FoK there mate.
CP effects duration only
peak breach
Gotcha, I've been FoK'ing from 4 to 5 cp now to refresh ruptures. Will be fun to see how it will affect logs when I'm not.
spice surge
Rupture damage doesnt scale with CP
It does the same damage, just different duration
solid nova
Yeah, as said
peak breach
Yeah. Has it always been that way? I just remember that it did scale with cp's as well back in the days?
spice surge
It was like that in legion atleast
peak breach
Yeah, but I talk way back. Like TBC way back.
spice surge
🤷
kindred flame
WotLK it was scalling
tender frost
So, I normally use TB.. and I see that Exsang sims higher. When exactly do you use Exang?
refresh on 5 cp rupture?
like, I know how to use it in opener.
high nova
Hey kinda new to Rogue, is Shrouded Suffocation still the trait you wanna stack? And is it for M+ and Raids?
open reef
Hey. I saw for ST mantle talent better then subterfuge. I guess for m+ go subt for 3 target silence still?
tender frost
I think Shrouded suffocation is still the way to go, even though it was nerfed.
use subterfuge if you have SS.. if not use MA
open reef
I see thx
tender frost
ravenholdt has the different openers.
tender frost
I was using a weird opener that @placid elbow introduced me to.. I would ask him, I havent used it since I got a SS trait on my gear.
edgy latch
Subt is still better for me without SS
tender frost
it went something like. mut>rup>mut>garrote>vendetta>vanish>TB>envenom
edgy latch
I'd love for someone to do a proper test between tb m env and env m env during ma window though
apl says one thing, sin channelsays another thing
wind berry
Hey, was wondering the same thing, just got my 3 Archi traits nad .. simmed sutff and i can either go 3 Archi or 2 Archi + 1SS .. They simm the same with 10 dps dif
Now i know the rotation and etc with SS and subforge but wanted to give a go to MA
south basin
I'd take the SS, personally
but I've been spoiled by the 3 CP garrote since the xpac launched, basically.
wind berry
true.. but with MA there this juicy big numbers opener if you follow the APL in raidbots
quick void
Why do you guys still go for SS though?
wind berry
dummy unbuffed it reached 40k plus
quick void
According to bloodmallet its one of the lowest traits atm
wind berry
There is something in the pin here or tc-updates that explains why
quick void
Where?
south basin
but the tl;dr is it's really good in M+ and bloodmallet sims SS incorrectly, but herodamage does not
quick void
Yea I just read it
But still, why go for something that is only up pretty much 2 times
south basin
vanish is 2 min CD
quick void
When you can just go DD or DitB that has no CD or anything and it gives better numbers?
strange python
got a 380 outlaw wep from my cache cuz forgot to switch spec shieeeet
quick void
But even herodamage still says that DD and DitB still have better numbers
And they require nothing else
Except for attacking
wind berry
i just noticed a habit i had with TB, i allways used it on CD , without delaying more then 1 or 2 seconds, is it better for me to used it inside EP?
quick void
Whereas SS only has limited uptime and requires more
south basin
DitB is reliant on being behind the target, which is obviously not going to be reliable 100% of the time
quick void
Well most of the time
Since pretty much most bosses have cleave and it requires to be at the back
south basin
sims are sims, so yeah. DD would definitely be better than SS for raiding
but as I mentioned before, SS is insane in M+, which is why I take it
wind berry
@south basin you stack them ?
quick void
Maybe if you stack 3 SS it can be good
south basin
no
quick void
But having one is an approx loss of 300-400 dps
south basin
atm I'm using 1 ss + 2 sob
if you stack them, the extra CP part of it is useless
which in that case, just get a different trait
quick void
True
wind berry
well the Subforge opener in cleave with SS is nice
quick void
Indeed
south basin
scent of blood
flat agility increase for each rupture active
its the best in multi-dot situations
I'd imagine it performs well on Zul, but who isn't playing sub on zul tbh
quick void
Yea that one is solid in M+
Since rupture is up pretty much on all trash
And fortified lets you enjoy the buff for some time
south basin
absolutely
south basin
375 and 360 qq
quick void
Im at 375 and 355 :S
south basin
I still have a 340 azerite piece, too LOL
edgy latch
having a 340 azerite is quite common
vernal atlas
sooo is assa the best now ??
edgy latch
it's been the best for weeks
flint jetty
When wasn't it? ;)
edgy latch
Beginning of bfa
It's arguably shit in m+0 and low keys, which people were running in the beginning
High keys combined with sub and outlaw nerfs made sin pass them
edgy latch
i'm tilted about having to use a new opener every fucking reset though
south basin
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
flint jetty
Pretty sure fuu or some of the other shadowblades/mods are pretty good w some of that stuff
edgy latch
I want to see numbers between tb m env and env m env in MA-window
i'm too shit to do it myself
strange python
sub on zull is such a boring fight :X rather i play assa is more fun
south basin
lol rlly? I think zul is fun as fuck as sub
valid meadow
hey boys n gals
Quick question
Oh, i just realized, there's a specific PVP thread
I was gonna ask for the best pvp traits
inland gull
was worried about my st since 0 st trait, still 5 out of 8 logs were 90+ ilvl %, now not so worried xd 361 ilvl
gloomy stump
Woah the new azerite power is so cool man. It changes everything. Its so innovative i cant believe they came up with it
wind berry
@edgy latch i believe that env is there for EP proc, and TB hits hard with EP + MA
gloomy stump
Nathing Personel kid. Shadowsteps behind you
edgy latch
which env
wind berry
@ garrote - mut - rupt - vendetta - vanish - tb - mut - envenom
edgy latch
i mean, you can have ep up when doing the tb m env
wind berry
yeah
glad vapor
Nothing Personal (New) Vendetta grants you 50 energy and causes your Mutilate attacks to deal an additional [ 111 * 1.5 * (1 + 27 / 100.2 * (1 + 0.2).2) ] damage.
wind berry
my bad
edgy latch
i'm not talking specifically about the opener either
gloomy stump
They even missed the chance to meme it. Like shadowstep gives bonus dmg or some shit
edgy latch
talking about all ma-windows throughout the fight
gloomy stump
Fucking baboons work at the class design team
wind berry
valid meadow
I wish one of the trinkets from Uldir was actually useable
or god forbid both of them
edgy latch
default apl is using tb m env
wind berry
@edgy latch yep
edgy latch
but i don't know how to modify it to check env m env
fluid salmon
Got 395 trinket off fethid. Sim 70dps more then fathom.
valid meadow
I got a 375 ghuun trinket
Simmed like 100 lower than fathoms and like 50 lower than a 340 harlans
it's so ridiculously bad
fluid salmon
Yeah raid trinket sux
valid meadow
I have a massive issue right now, i got two archives and one laser matrix, so i need some other traits
south basin
I'm using 370 doom's wake and fathoms
valid meadow
I can still pull some dps, but with better trinkets and traits i could easily hit 15k+
gloomy stump
Yeah but i payed a heavy price for it. Im still sad af
I was an undead forever and had the alliance tabard. Then i changed to maghar and the tabard transformed to the horde one
And the cunts at support wont reverse it, because "it was a bug anyways"
valid meadow
hey, zandalari trolls are still not available, right?
Even if it's a slight dps decrease, i'm so tired of my troll female
gloomy stump
Ye they baited people with it and havent released. But its still beta so
weak pine
I'm proud of you @hazy sphinx
alpine grotto
You would think the raid trinkets would be the best but they suck so much . What were blizzard thinking .
valid meadow
They didn't
south basin
probably "o shit bfa releases in 2 months what do we do LOL"
I miss interesting trinkets
like even in WoD at least we had soul cap/class trinkets
those were fun and interesting imo
alpine grotto
Let’s hope the new azerite changes and availability to get the pieces helps. Tbh maybe they need to buff the raid trinkets .
spice surge
Complaining about boring trinkets happens early on in every expansions, as the cool trinkets are typically found in the last tier
edgy latch
it's just shitty that all raid trinkets suck
spice surge
Legion was the exception, because they scattered them across the tiers, such as CoF
edgy latch
and the best ones are from wq/world boss
south basin
fury warrior in my guild was still using CoF in antorus
that's a little over the line
spice surge
well the best ones are from m+
alpine grotto
Thing is when you raid mythic etc you want to be thinking yes these trinkets are worth it. Not omfg they suck hard .
spice surge
Yeah exactly, the scattered them and then had to nerf them because the power level of some of them were just insane
I mean, they can be uninteresting and good
They're just tuned awfully
For some reason
alpine grotto
Maybe it’s blizzard way of trolling the raiders
quaint flare
😏
valid meadow
I hate m+ with a passion, so the fact that i have to do it for the best trinkets
makes me furious
quaint flare
I'm the opposite 
alpine grotto
I like the m+ but at the same time the raiding seems pointless when some of the gear is not as good as the wq stuff or the m+
valid meadow
I wish they implemented AP gain on every boss kill in raids
so i wouldn't have to run around and grind my damn necklace like a moron every single day
alpine grotto
Agree @valid meadow
modest wedge
hollow escarp
That moment when you are assa main and not sure if to use this for sub/outlaw xD
spice surge
Why would you use it for sub or outlaw when you can use it for assa?
inland path
[9:33 AM] ballofire: havent checked back here in like 1 week
[9:33 AM] ballofire: is SS bug fixed yet
spice surge
No
wise whale
but i reported the bug so dont worry, they are fixing it as we speak
valid meadow
I feel like the design team is crazy lazy to not change tooltips on traits that are completely wrong
like, poisoned wire
spice surge
Cant change tooltips without a patch
summer marten
seems like good for sin, dagger in back is good stuff
wise whale
yes just get fetid head
hollow escarp
I will probably choose Daggers as it works for all specs and see what I can do with it, probably when I get another Uldir piece outside chest
doesnt fetid drop chest?
hollow escarp
Zul or Mythrax
valid meadow
dagger should be really good for sin
wise whale
there are more
valid meadow
because the mastery scales with the proc, right?
hollow escarp
it is, but I have 3 Uldir azerite pieces, all of them are chests xD
3 x fetid chests
valid meadow
bro i have 2 archives
and 1 laser matrix
i get 450 extra agility while fighting
it's like having 2 extra flasks running
wise whale
its not super bad
valid meadow
Haha, can i use three archives?
summer marten
well, its not forbidden
wise whale
ask vectis
wise whale
he got you covered
rocky ravine
hollow escarp
I'm still using 340/345 helm and shoulders with SS for M+ 😃
it feels good in dungeons
wise whale
i need to start running the SS mythic0 every week
vernal atlas
assa requires double dagger, right? unlike sub
hollow escarp
yeah
wise whale
yes
strange python
wise whale
i killed mother 11 times and used all my bonus roll son her and i got no dagger
i hate her
strange python
anyone knows how versatility is interpreted?
wise whale
but i like the fight
zealous dew
oh they buffed SS ?
strange python
8.1 notes
zealous dew
meh
spice surge
Its not a buff
strange python
dude what do you mean it's not a buff?
spice surge
Its updating the tooltip to reflect that it actually scales
strange python
so now more undocumented horseshit come into place?
edgy latch
i wonder when they'll fix the ss bug though..
spice surge
What?
It already does that damage, its just that the tooltip is incorrect and stuck at a certain value
zealous dew
still pointless to play rogue then, DH it is
spice surge
All traits scale with AP and vers
For example; SS gives almost double the damage the tooltip says
Why the tooltips didnt update to reflect this i dont know
strange python
dude let's say versatility equals to 1, then from 234 baselevel damage we jump to 677.5704
you think this is trivial?
?????
strange python
this is not live, is it?
Shrouded Suffocation Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 additional Combo Points and deals 234[234 * (1.27 * (1 + Versatility) * 1.14)] additional damage.
spice surge
You're not gonna have 100% vers
strange python
IF versatility EQUALS to 1 in the FORMULA above, SS jumps from 234 damage to 677.5704
oh i see how it's calculated now
this makes 0 sense btw
visual token
Vers would be op if it calculated like that.
strange python
so let's say i have 1% vers, my SS from 234 will be doing 342 yes?
this is a tiny buff i presume then.
high ingot
it's a tooltip fix
strange python
so this is already live?
high ingot
unless any other changes are documented I'd assume it is. it's definitely a wrong tooltip on live right now
strange python
can you confirm pushing versatility directly impacts the SS damage?
high ingot
Didn't test that ofc. but I noticed SS boosts by more than the number in the tooltip when I checked my logs for the nightelf racial (which only buffs garrote dmg with SS trait and not subterfuge)
should be easy to test though
strange python
i'd appreciate if you did, can't atm
mystic glade
doing a 10 kings rest, i think i read something about not using Ct there? should i go with bomb?
dusky tinsel
I saw musclebrah using CT in kings rest, don't see why not
lost coral
would not use CT in kings rest
strange python
only dungeon you should really consider PB is temple
high ingot
why temple?
spice surge
KR is a low density dungeon, this week is fortified though so its out of the question
strange python
tight DPS checks
lost coral
why would you use CT in Kings Rest
strange python
and narrow pulls
lost coral
all packs are 3-4 mobs only
mystic glade
haha, im confused ;< is fortified good for ct or bomb 😄
high ingot
CT gets better on fortified as you'll have more time to get use out of it. but it's not bad on tyrannical either, just on some tyrannical bosses you might value bomb more
zealous dew
or you could sim 20 and 40s fights with both options with 3/4/5/6/7/8 mobs and decide
zealous dew
make a custom one 😃
strange python
: )
wanton wagon
What's wrong with the apl?
strange python
it was vanishing and not using 3 garrotes
wanton wagon
Oh
spice surge
That was like 2 weeks ago
Fairly certain that was included in the update for assa aoe
but maybe not, cba checking #tc-updates
wanton wagon
Do you guys run PB exsang, or PB TB when you do you PB?
frosty kelp
I find that the dh in my group blow everything up too fast to get any use of CT. I prefer PB. Am I bad or anyone else feel like this? +10 keys
frosty kelp
Well that too
wanton wagon
@frosty kelp Yeah that can be an issue, but it depends on overall comp, affixes, dungeon, etc
wanton wagon
I actually tried sub for bolstering, pretty good at focusing damage on one target to even out mongo AOE from DHs lol
Also because I have 370/385 without SS and it tilts me to play with 340s
zealous dew
sub is good yes
strange python
tilt or not, you get the top
frosty kelp
Atleast I dont die Evert second pull like he does
frosty kelp
Haha
wanton wagon
I used to do that ^^
strange python
ye do it in combat so he doesn't see it also
zealous dew
or trick the frost mage
wanton wagon
Been doing it since naxx in wotlk, our raid leader kept crying about rogues trading tricks (he was a warrior). So we decided to always tricks him
Never lost to him again, he jsut died on every pull
south tree
Guys dies the trknket on toldagor ( the canon) is good for us? I got it on mm7
wanton wagon
Don't think he actually knew about the aggro part, just the damage increase (rip)
zealous dew
necro there is a trinket simulation on herodamage
devout moth
Was shrouded suffocation buffed?
south tree
Okay i will watch this
wanton wagon
What, was it buffed? wth
strange python
no one knows
wanton wagon
Yeah but where does the rumor come from?
strange python
cba logging every fucking day to keep track
zealous dew
I mean it is already embarassing seeing mages and DH doing 150k burst dmg
give us something 😃
cyan stump
i think there is a change on the ptr
devout moth
They are not the only ones
cyan stump
regarding SS
wanton wagon
I played an AD +6 or something on my DH, first time ever as DPS, no UI setup (didn't even see my rage bar). Still won overall damage
But I still enjoy rogue so much more
wanton wagon
What the hell does that formula mean? Seems like a buff though, some scaling on the bonus damage
strange python
Shrouded Suffocation Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 additional Combo Points and deals 39 additional damage. [ 39 * (1 + 27 / 100.2 * (1 + 0.2) * (1 + (170% of Spell Power) / 100.2).2) ] additional damage.
versus
Shrouded Suffocation Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 additional Combo Points and deals 234[234 * (1.27 * (1 + Versatility) * 1.14)] additional damage.
"tooltip hotfixes" "i think it's changed on PTR"
go fucking figure
blizzard's ambiguity at its best
devout moth
What the actual fuck
somber otter
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
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https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
knotty dew
CT I don't like at all, since with infested and fortified we tend to get smaller groups (sap/cc) so you'll hardly get any use out of CT imo.
So this is regardless of DH or any other class joining in.
I was in Temple +11 yesterday, only place where CT shined was during gauntlet to catch the eyes.
devout moth
Why don’t they buff my sub so I can rock m+ ahah assa is fine tho
strange python
@knotty dew you pull small, you do small.
that means you don't time the big keys.s
gaunt isle
"Nothing Personal (New) Vendetta grants you 50 energy and causes your Mutilate attacks to deal an additional [ 111 * 1.5 * (1 + 27 / 100.2 * (1 + 0.2).2) ] damage." PTR trait lmao
wanton wagon
I like that they're putting some scaling on the traits, no fucking clue how much that will turn out to be though
@devout moth Great week for sub 😃
echo void
hey guys, Im currently raiding heroic, Just got a piece with Archive of the titans on it, but already have another one, one piece 370 Chest (new one) other is 355 shoulders with archive, CAN i replace my 355 shoulders with a 370 piece with shrouded suffocation and only have 1 trait of archive with my new chest?
strange python
sub is a meme at this point
devout moth
Yeah agreed
lost coral
yes @echo void
echo void
Is it worth stacking at all or no?
lost coral
but you should just sim it
echo void
Okay il sim, ty
knotty dew
@strange python we sure did time the big keys
lost coral
also depends on if you are using TB or Exang
signal salmon
! Ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
devout moth
How is that shit still unfixed
strange python
at this point !ss is another meme
devout moth
Something is a bit strong insta nerf
knotty dew
rank one is not doing +12/+13 probably
not trying to compare myself with a rank 1 either
signal salmon
Why is ss still bugged
strange python
play whatever you enjoy my dude
knotty dew
but when you usually have 2-3 mobs fighting against, I don't see the added value of CT really
strange python
just know CT is better when you seem to be falling behind in terms of damage output
unless you play temple
twilit sky
2 questions, first is the ranking on bloodmallet on archive of the titans assuming you are inside ULdir?
knotty dew
as I said, temple is probably a bad example
balmy cradle
Ct works great especially if your group can handle big pulls
twilit sky
Other question, is shrouded suffocation still worth going for, looking (again) at the bloodmallet ranking
balmy cradle
But if you only pull 2-3 mobs i wouldnt bother either
strange python
triple SS for M+ still seems to be the thing
balmy cradle
Yes ss in m+ is just king. Constant restealth just shoots its value way up
twilit sky
Thanks @strange python and @balmy cradle
shut magnet
Each pull is bleeding galore with it
lost coral
also depends on the ilvl of your pieces
spice surge
a 385 scent or something might be better than 340 SS
nimble tartan
Luckily i got the 385 ss from fetid
balmy cradle
Depends on the higher ilvl traits. If its st only great take ss. If it has any value in aoe take higher ilvl
balmy cradle
@nimble tartan gratz! Man i need a myth raid myself...
round ledge
are people running marked for death in m+?
strange python
you replace a SS for a sob, be prepared to lose xsg damage
balmy cradle
Mfd has really bad synergy with ss trait. Since u lack energy to tripple garrote on opener imo
strange python
yep
round ledge
yeah that's what I thought
devout moth
Actually I’m playin 340 head SS shoulders 370 scent and 355 Ss so u think that for m+ I should take 340 shoulders with ss ?
strange python
@devout moth absolutely.
balmy cradle
Donno about scent tbh im running with 370 archiv as well cant decide if its better than 340 ss tho. The stamina is really helping on higher keys
spice surge
Mfd is pretty good if you're good at using it
strange python
an edge case is if you have x2 340 SS and you replace those 2 for x2 385 SoB, i still believe the SS's will do better
balmy cradle
@spice surge just feels bad. U triple garrote and wait for energy to ct or rupture especially so when u sap an infested beforehand
Idk i guess its preference
spice surge
3x garrote > ct > mfd > rupt > exsang
strange python
it's def possible to play with mfd
balmy cradle
Sure is a thing just not as smooth imo. But also depends on haste levels and preference
strange python
especially if your haste is not low
maybe we get to switch to mfd later on in the next tier, with more stats in play
but i doubt it
spice surge
I mean you can do that whole thing without waiting for energy
Assuming you have full energy at pull
And im only at 11% haste in my aoe set
balmy cradle
Sure? 3x 45= 135 + 35= 170 how do i do it without waiting with 120 energy?
winter dagger
how do ppl reach like 16k+ simmed dps, when i sim myself all i could reach is 15k with 373 ilvl ;v
balmy cradle
Garroting is not auto applying poisons so its a gamble to get energy back
wise whale
for me it work everytime just try it
quick egret
Im 15.7k simmed at 370 equipped
lost coral
CT is not worth on 3 targets though?
strange python
a run in which the majority of pulls are under 4 targets is kinda bad i think
balmy cradle
@spice surge ok ic well then it might be good. Still i like the lazy way tbh xp
strange python
anyhow, in M+ your haste should be around 5%
with temple being the only exception i can think of
balmy cradle
Hmm im not sure about that. I had 13% have 19% now feels better imo
Without haste wow feels garbage xD
I think i wouldnt go under 10% ever again
round ledge
your haste should not be 5% lol
hollow cloud
Next up, speed
round ledge
what ass you pulling that number out of
strange python
i rupture with 1 cp and build haste out of thin air
balmy cradle
But the tickrate tho
strange python
@round ledge SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
@round ledge https://i.imgur.com/oyMs457.png
there you go buddy
balmy cradle
I know that. 15+ keys are still working witb lot of haste :D
strange python
well surely you can play with stacked haste and do less overall damage
no problem.
oblique copper
but it's the other way around now
balmy cradle
But im highest overall in my group :o
strange python
@oblique copper ???
oblique copper
lol, wrong guide
strange python
no troll pls
oblique copper
@strange python sorry, outlaw stats
I looked at them for the last 5 minutes or so trying to figure out why
strange python
because rupture builds energy for you, it's very very simple
no, you get a proper team with proper brains and maybe you can touch 15s 😛
oblique copper
that's obvious, I'm talking about my opening the wrong guide mistake
mortal warren
When doing m+ your "build" should reflect your other party member, the dungeon you're doing the weekly affixes and pull sizes
strange python
there's nothing to reflect on but limits
and usually in M+ that spells for overall damage
overall effective damage*
oblique copper
how many targets do we need to start spamming CT? (after a bunch of raptures is applied)
mortal warren
If you play 1 mob gaming through the whole dungeon haste is more worth then mastery and crit
strange python
you want to do CT as soon as you do your garrotes
mortal warren
Thats what i meant with "relfect"
balmy cradle
For world 7 rogue stacking haste was enough xD lmao
oblique copper
I saw speedoflife doing fan into ct fan into ct fan into ct during big pulls
lost coral
that is only on very big pulls slavique
balmy cradle
Sometimes feelycraft is the wrong craft
oblique copper
5+ targets I reckon
lost coral
no worries burning 20k+ each dungeon 😛
balmy cradle
Sure on push keys everyone should use pots on cd
Just wish they were more accesible like prolonged
strange python
yesterday an agi pot would cost 900g on my server. assuming you hit it on cooldown, let's say you hit average 20 to 25 for a run, you spend like 20k per run
do 10 runs
balmy cradle
Where u crafted 10 instead of 1