ah right
#assassination
edgy latch
sinful lotus
TB MUT ENV
for the max combo point Env in the MA window.
basing this off a reply from this discord when I asked the same question a while back 😃
sinful lotus
I think it needs to sim higher for us to call it THE Master ASS 😃
slender hare
are you paying for raidbots? if so you can see your recent sims and use those on the rightside panel
super useful
@edgy latch
slender hare
ahh, think its a paid service, not sure, i use it at work a lot lol
little lantern
sometimes I don't understand mrrobot trait picks.. it shows me for upgrade 2x dagger + sharpened blades, while I have DD available on the same SB item..
sacred seal
I believe MA window would be same as opener in legion with lege shoulders - pop vendeta, TB, prepare 5 CP, vanish, env, multi (4CP with MA) and env again in MA window
brisk forge
sacred seal
oh, now I see its only 3s window .... than nvm 😃 ... vanish, tb, mut, env is way to go with MA
onyx wind
👌
scenic marlin
Is shrouded still worth running anymore, I'm having an awful time with azurite for sin xd
shy escarp
it's still king for M+
scenic marlin
Blood mallet is throwing me off cos it's showing as a bottom 5 now
shy escarp
blood mallet uses Master assassin by default, which lowers the value of SS significantly
scenic marlin
Oh weird didn't know that
dark lantern
Yeah, that's why the first pin is about that issue
mortal gyro
Why does it do that?
safe matrix
scenic marlin
For raiding though dd is probably better right
mortal gyro
How do you see pins? Sorry, new to discord
dark lantern
Top right corner, to the left of the search bar, the pin icon
mortal gyro
Thanks!
dark lantern
Masterful snipping tool paint skills
ocean nebula
do we use archive of titans in m+ too?
solar rose
Ideally if you have SS traits you should use those instead but depends on ilevel
slender hare
380 thats big boi
proud tusk
im still stuck with 3x 340 Azerite armor. Shit system is shit. Ive done everything that drops Azerite Armor except mythic raiding.
and gz on 380 😃
slender hare
what are you simming as 380?
round harbor
I've gotten 385 head with swirling sands, and 385 shoulders with blighted infusion :/ but I can't complain too much I guess
Uh idk lemme see
slender hare
yeah my 385 shoulders got SoB, also not too amazing T_T
round harbor
actually gonna suck if i get 385 chest from cache this week cause i need to keep my reorigination buff in raid lol. itll be nic efor m+ tho
slender hare
what are you running in m+? For raid i've got 370/385/385, but for m+ i still use 340/340/340 because i still havent gotten higher SS pieces T:T
slender hare
ah alright, damn
round harbor
also swap to alot of haste mastery gear this week
slender hare
yeah
round harbor
probly notr the right thing to do but i like the hybrid of st/aoe
slender hare
just feels so weird losing all that health when dropping to lower ilvl pieces
round harbor
tbh ive been playing alot of outlaw in m+ tho
slender hare
yeah, bosses in m+ feel real bad if you get rid of too much haste
Haven't even tried outlaw in m+ yet, just sub and sin
round harbor
outlaw does so much freaking dmg and still decent prio target. it can do aoe which sin can only dream of and rng highroll
got to about 1.2k this week. gonna aim for 1.3k by reset
slender hare
yeah might consider it as well, just havent bothered yet to get weapons for outlaw
west frost
Outlaw feels so...wonky
slender hare
sub is really fun though imo in m+, if its with a tank with big pulls
cobalt bobcat
3x silence on pull is hard to replace in m+ though :X
west frost
I can't get the groove
shy escarp
Outlaw isn't quite as good for AoE as you think it is. It's pivotal flaw is that if you don't have Blade Flurry charges up, you can't do AoE
round harbor
3x silence on pull is very niche
shy escarp
Sub and Sin do way better AoE in higher keys
round harbor
very few pulls that actually need the silences
solar rose
that's wrong
round harbor
and ive found that outlaw is 100 times better in infested because ranged stun on likem 10 second cd
can contribute to the infestred dmg alot more
vague patrol
not sure what you're defining as higher keys but that's way off base if you mean like 12-13 or so
i haven't done much 14-15+ yet
cobalt bobcat
how do you handle BF charges on high keys? didnt play outlaw much past 8s but I would guess you would run out of charges on fortified?
balmy cradle
You can always restealth and double cheat shot for every infested if you play them solo
If you kill them in pack rogues are not the best anyway
For sawns
vague patrol
you almost never run out of charges for any sustained period of time unless you're talking very high keys
solar rose
That's far from the truth
vague patrol
killing the spawns isn't really a big deal anyway as long as you just position correctly
round harbor
and not lose aoe dmg in the process
lost coral
sub
vague patrol
but having a ranged stun is nice if someone fucks up on one
balmy cradle
Aoe while spawns are out is meaningless since every mob is topped up
solar rose
you can literally kidney them, and you have other cc in the group majority of the time, if your argument is that it's good because you BtE and it does half its hp and it stuns
lol
round harbor
not true
vague patrol
once spawns are out they aren't being healed lol
round harbor
kidney is a dps loss tho
balmy cradle
Ofc not
round harbor
conpared to bte which is gain,
solar rose
Who cares if it's a dps loss, it's one global
balmy cradle
But they are not dmged beforehand either
vague patrol
dunno why we're even talking about killing spawns, it's an extremely small part of running keys right now lol
solar rose
Killing ghuun's is far from a problem in m+ if your group is actually just doing anything to them
^^
balmy cradle
But also one of the more fuck up parts
obtuse robin
infested is a joke
round harbor
i mean true, but if you can contribvute to them why would you not
obtuse robin
huh?
round harbor
1 global loss x30 for a dungeon is quite a bit
30 may be too many but you get whast i mean
obtuse robin
u dont m+ much
obtuse robin
alright whats ur raiderio
solar rose
If you're argument is that outlaw is good because it kills ghuuns
round harbor
~1.2k
solar rose
you really don't do a lot of m+
solar rose
It's not nearly as good at killing priority targets
rain ibex
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
solar rose
you're spreading false information
round harbor
it still does good prio dmg,not as good aas vendettaing them but still good
spreading that outlaw is good isnt false information
obtuse robin
for non tyrannical week maybe
solar rose
Yeah, and you're playing outlaw, in which you could take a DH or mage and accomplish the same thing, but better, and then you do priority target damage. It's all about dps variance in the group, not doing number 1 on overall
rain ibex
Fortified weeks assa even stronger imo
round harbor
ok
obtuse robin
yes they r even stronger in fort
round harbor
going sin is like 1-2k more dps on bosses?
balmy cradle
I just feel like outlaw has no advantage i would take it for and not picking sub/sin and im 1600ish io
round harbor
zim how u feel about gouge
solar rose
Highly depends on rolls with the damage variance of RtB, especially with lowish kill times relative to raiding
balmy cradle
round harbor
nice flex
balmy cradle
I think its strong as well as your damaging ranged stun as outlaw but thats not topping the perma aoe slow + silence + constant dmg from sin
round harbor
im really impressed
balmy cradle
Or outweighing the sub focus dmg
So idk
If outlaw had just thaat much more aor dmg yeah maybe
round harbor
sub is dungeon dependant
obtuse robin
its not trash far from it but the other 2 specs r stronger speaks to oh well rogue is right now
round harbor
TD its probly the best hands down
balmy cradle
Im not saying outlaw is bad tho. Id just not play it personally over sin right now
obtuse robin
the other have more that outlaw doesnt
proud tusk
The one thing Outlaw is missing imo is an AoE slow for m+
which is paramount in high keys
round harbor
fmage
ez
and my group has bdk 100% of the time
so for me personally thats a anon issue
solar rose
Outlaw really doesn't, it has higher burst AoE, which that roll could be full filled by another class... But better, if you are playing outlaw and have a DH or a frost mage or both, you have 3 classes doing the same exact type of damage.
obtuse robin
but itsd not really
proud tusk
Our setup is DH-tank, Disc, Rogue, Wlock, Boomkin
round harbor
ok but flkawless what % of overall dmg is trash and what are you more likely to wipe on
proud tusk
so im the only one with reliable slow
solar rose
You pop CDS as sub or Assas on those packs and completely make the pack irelevant
what
rain ibex
I have a question if you strealth and put up 3 garrotes, can you insta vanish and put up another 3? So you have 6 SS garrotes up?
strange python
@rain ibex yes
strange python
I wouldn't garrote 6 diff targets though :)
rain ibex
And the bug doesnt fuck with it even if garrotes on 6 targets?
strange python
@obtuse robin no you cant.
obtuse robin
they fixed that?>
strange python
You can have 7. Meld triggers 1 ss bot subterfuge
oblique raven
hey fellas i got a question, when i sim my shit out... first off according to my stat weights i should enchant mh haste and oh crit but when i sim and try to see if mh galeforce and oh haste i get roughly a 100 dps diff... but since my stat weights have haste above even agi should i go with the gale force and haste or>???
obtuse robin
ahh
strange python
@rain ibex the bug is a 4th garrote as it will be out of thr subterfuge window
obtuse robin
@strange python but can it trigger subter x3 ?
round harbor
flawless ur moire than welcome to play sin
solar rose
Outlaw is definitely playable in m+, but rationalizing it for the reasons you were, were wrong. I play all 3 specs on my stream at a high level in m+.
round harbor
im not gonna stop you, im just saying what works for me
high ingot
when should you use your shadowmeld-garrote in patchwork situations as a nelf?
round harbor
yeah playing at a high level with the best pl;ayers in thew world. we dont all have that luxury =./
strange python
@obtuse robin the vanish will allow you to enter the subterfuge for a 2nd time and apply 6 empowered garrotes
obtuse robin
im talkign about meld
oblique raven
anyone?
rain ibex
@strange python what about the bug is that only for garrotes out of subterfuge?
strange python
@rain ibex you dont case garrote outside of subterfuge unless the other empowered garrotes have fallen off
rain ibex
Yes I know but what if I have 6 empowered garrotes up, does that trigger the bug?
mortal warren
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
rain ibex
I KNOW
solar rose
If you're vanishing to apply 3 more garrotes, you do not lose the SS bonus.
if that's what your asking
oblique raven
my bad if that question has been asked before im just curious if it makes a diff as to gale-force enchant
with my stat weights
as posted above
round harbor
@slender hare u were asking before https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kHQDuMVrvJGj7tjVrENzE4
thats my top equipped sim
still waiting on a plume =/
verbal sorrel
well
on that sim
you dont have an enchant on your main weapon
which is lowering your dps by a to
ton
round harbor
rofl
verbal sorrel
might wanna get that fixed
verbal sorrel
😄
round harbor
its just i repllaced the offhand
verbal sorrel
ye ye I feel ya
round harbor
guyess it didnt autodill on raidbvots
verbal sorrel
interestingly enough
Im a fan of your headpiece
the tornado trait whatever its called
pretty good for both raid and M+
all arounder 😄
signal summit
@round harbor Why a plum tho?
meager basalt
what trinkets u guys rocking for pvp?
round harbor
yeah idk why raidbots doesnt auto populate when i replace enchant
balmy cradle
Anyone has the shrine trinket and has an opinion on it for m+?
meager basalt
gale is doo doo
meager basalt
dead - eye?
verbal sorrel
so the gale is pretty meh
round harbor
yeah i actively dont use galecallers lol
signal summit
I still dont have galecallers sadly
balmy cradle
Running crit glass and dice but dont have the shrine one so i cant test
signal summit
But have 380 socket Harlan and 380 plum
round harbor
it sims ~same as deadeye so i just use that in all raid scenarios
verbal sorrel
@signal summit those are kinda insane
round harbor
ffs ive ran freehold like 40 times and never seen a dice
signal summit
But from weekly cache lol
round harbor
not even for others
meager basalt
yall think dead-eye would work alright in pvp
verbal sorrel
yeah
no trinkets have dropped for me either in weeks
feels kinda bad
got a 395 uldir trinket tho
round harbor
meanwhile my tank fgot 390 rezans tonight from a carry group
meager basalt
the "put on b4 sign up for pug" trinket
verbal sorrel
^
round harbor
sign up for groiups is uneqiopped
and at 381 in bags i dont ever get declined form pugs
usually just do them for fu, but it gives me serious cancer
solid nova
Well vendetta generates energy so 🤷 you wouldnt need to pool for that
edgy latch
did you calculate my stupidity with that?
solid nova
😄 Tooltips are a powerful thing my dude
edgy latch
🤔
obtuse robin
@strange python so it does work u just have to regular stealth after u meld
and u can keep applying sub garrotes
solid nova
@edgy latch The tooltip on vend specifies it generates energy, so you wouldnt need to 😄 I'm not sure i follow you otherwise
strange python
@obtuse robin ah ok i understand what you mean.
solid nova
Ahhh, im with you 😄
strange python
@edgy latch even so you do want energy pooles
You need to maximise your envenom uptime during TB. So its always best to pool before it to get off as much uptime during that window along with elaborate planning uptime
Its nice to see assassination rogues back at the top of the 3 specs for ST :)
@vague kernel for me it depends as you have to adapt on the fly with pandemic bleeds
So you have to try and plan out the bleed applications and the TB cd so that you dont have to reapply thr bleeds during your TB window.
Sometimes i have 50 energy sometimes 80 or more. So i pool as much as i can without it delaying cds to the point it impacts the dps
Also if there are adds up that have bleeds on and they will die during your vendetta window you dont have to worry as much as they will give you energy back when they die
I just envenom before it if i see it coming up. I hate over capping on CPs
Question Guys: I see more and more people who have talented Crimson not to use FoK at all in there rotation. Thats for the Dungeons Set ofc. So is it worth using FoK even if you have Crimson......
slender hare
huh? you use fan of knives on aoe
and then CT to spend the combo points
and yes you still use FoK without CT on aoe
strange python
FoK is a generator, crimson is a spender
forest niche
Does Exsanguinate benefit from haste buffs, like gcb trinket etc?
west gate
Can any one tell me how do you sim mythic+ ?
forest niche
ty man!
strange python
4 mobs 50 seconds no buffs
Hectic add cleave I think?
Or no?
Hectic add cleave is not the way forward.
summer marten
as far as i know, patchwerk 4 mobs, 50s
strange python
Is it not teh waey?
Okay, I learned something new today
Coolcool
@strange python it may come into play next tier. But there are no real encounters that generate hectic add cleave such as the old beastlord fight
True
static tapir
any1 can explain how to use exsanguinate corretly? i know it snapshots but i feel im not using it correctly
strange python
@static tapir make sure pandemic bleeds are up. Use GCB if you have it then use it.
static tapir
so, when GCB is up, u refresh bleeds, no matter how long they are still running?
little sparrow
Just get them to full pandemic so you can get 100% efficiency on your exsanf
static tapir
k ty
lone junco
@strange python raidbots does 20s 40s and 1min. Not sure where that 50s number came from.
And i use 6t 40s patchwerk. No buffs.
Probably not that viable for sub or outlaw. But for SS sin is close enough.
strange python
I missed you
ancient tangle
Is Nelf master race for SS sin? Meld to add more boosted garrotes + vanish ?
ancient tangle
M+ it does? Fml that would be insane on some of these dungeons this week
strange python
Does that work?
vestal abyss
im 90% sure it does
strange python
Interesting
north charm
What's Meld?
north charm
Ah ok
spice fern
Hey guys, is Pawn accurate enough for assa rogue?
vestal abyss
sim yo self
spice fern
I do, that was not my question tho 😃
vestal abyss
what do you mean 'pawn'
cunning needle
summer marten
pawn does nothing except sum up stats on item based on weights provided... so if you sim yourself and add your own weights, it should be decent enough
strange python
@spice fern you import your own pawn strings using simulationcraft and raidbots
spice fern
ok, thx
for example, pawn is not accurate for arms warrior
prot sry
i just wanted to know if the addon was good for rogue provided you replace weight
vestal abyss
im pretty sure simming only works accurately for dps anyway
and maybe healing sorta
high ingot
Shadowmeld + rupture works in raids, doesn't it? When I do I get the 3 CP from SS, that should mean the dmg bonus applies as well, right?
vestal abyss
rupture?
strange python
@high ingot i believe it does but not the subterfuge buff
high ingot
garrotte, sry
strange python
H3 means garrote
vestal abyss
i dont think it does
It only works because shadowmeld gets you out of combat so you can then restealth
shadowmeld does not get you out of combat on boss fights
high ingot
hmm, weird interactions then.
vestal abyss
it just reduces your threat to 0
strange python
@high ingot @vestal abyss i may be wrong
vestal abyss
no weird interactions
vestal abyss
Thats probably a bug
high ingot
but not subterfuge
vestal abyss
im gonna test that
high ingot
it's not a bug, because technically you are in stealth
vestal abyss
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
warm geode
someone have some tips on where is ilvl disparity enought to trade SS traits for Archive of Titan? i have 2 pieces 340 but can replace for 1 385 and another 370
*talking about m+
vestal abyss
sim yo self
high ingot
meld used to be a dps CD when i played sub back in wod (havnt touchd the spec since)
vestal abyss
ye
warm geode
of course
vestal abyss
glad we sorted that out
warm geode
sarcasm
vestal abyss
i doubt you have to scroll up far to find some1 answering that very question
But since youre being such a chill dude: 3 or 4 bosses 40 seconds patchwerk
high ingot
Guess I'd have to do some dummy testing later on to see whether I get the full value out of garrote with the nelf racial. When I tried it in raid yesterday I got 3 CP (from ss trait) and it didn't occur cooldown, but I did not get the 3sec subterfuge.
vestal abyss
thats hella weird and hella useful
lone junco
i reran this again. Haste is wonky. Goes from 3rd to first to last to first to 2nd. @jovial kite im at 19.9% unbuffed. or like 23% raid. any ideas why it breaks in and out?
vestal abyss
back to back to back empowered garrote boiiisss lets see if i can get the APL to sim this
lone junco
I have heard that you cant get the subterfuge.
if thats true, it has no value beyond the lols.
honest iris
whats the aoe rotation with exstin?
vestal abyss
its 2 extra combo points and a little bit of damage
lone junco
it needs to have the higher tick rate, not the cps
high ingot
question would be if you'd rather wait for the opener to be completely over, use a normal garrote once the empowered ones are out. and then refresh that in pandemic with nelf racial empowered one. or if you just refresh the empowered one from the opener with the racial.
vestal abyss
subterfuge increases the damage by 80%, SS increases the damage by ~250 per tick
terse pawn
but does subterfuge multiplier also increase SS damage?
vestal abyss
Id say open, vanish refresh at 5.4 seconds, let it run out, shadowmeld garrote
lone junco
@honest iris g g g ct. fok fok rupture exang fok fok (tab ruptures to each elite) then refresh CT as needed, else env.
Use vendetta and or vanish on prio mobs.
@terse pawn yes. that is why SS is good
lone junco
6k -15k crit ticks of garrote matter. not the cps.
but if you are triggering the big ticks in M+ then grats
vestal abyss
Even on boss fights 2.2k ticks is better than 2k ticks, even if its not by much
lone junco
negative.
if you arent getting the big stuff, then you should be playing another trait
but w/e
beats 0 dmg i gueess
vestal abyss
a lot of people are already running 1 SS anyway
And yeah in M+ shadowmeld is pretty sick
vestal abyss
quite sad
high ingot
I looked into my logs from the raid yesterday and my best guess is that shadowmeld-garrote benefits from ss trait but not from the 80% buff from subterfuge. ~4980 tick with vanish, ~2780 with shadowmeld, ~1800 without any
keen spruce
they said it couldn't be done
vestal abyss
do you run 3x ss?
high ingot
although 1k bonus each tick seems to be a lot with just one ss trait
vestal abyss
ye thats weird
keen spruce
I run 0 SS
high ingot
but there's archive and all those buffs. would be simpler to test it with just the ss trait equipped and nothing else.
vestal abyss
@keen spruce can you post a gear screenshot? I have no access to raidsbots from work
high ingot
just cant test it right now
vestal abyss
wouldnt it better to put that 370 in you rmain hand?
keen spruce
380 in the mainhand
vestal abyss
ah
keen spruce
warforge 
vestal abyss
sick
distant creek
why does SS sim so bad in herodamage and bloodmallet?
keen spruce
It got nerfed by 40% 
lone junco
Base uses ma now
honest iris
do you use ct in st?
keen spruce
no
vestal abyss
for some reason Subterfuge still sims higher for me than MA when im not using any SS. Maybe i did something wrong
keen spruce
just a waste of combo points
Spellar Subt and MA are like withing .2% for me
they basically even out
keen spruce
I run sub on any fight with adds on pull
like zul or something
although MA is nice too
I dunno i'm pretty much used to MA now
but .2% is practically within sim variance
it's like a <50 dps change
missing one GCD in a fight will negate that
vestal abyss
ye
strange python
does feint reduce dmg taken from people walking through to the next room on mother mythic?
vestal abyss
I think yes
spice surge
Is the damage directed specifically at you or at everyone? Its at everyone, thus feint reduces it
vestal abyss
Might aswell spec elusiveness and be sure
spice surge
Ofc it reduces it
vestal abyss
ofcourse you fool!
buoyant badger
Im not sure, but i think untalented doesn't reduce it?
vestal abyss
why?
buoyant badger
i died a couple of times on mythic if i used only untalented, even trough cheat death
but again, not sure. couldve been bad timing, going slightly too early/late if that matters, etc
vestal abyss
Im still not sure how things instagib me through cheat death
opaque grotto
My guild just does the strat where you send 15 people at once through the wall and afk
vestal abyss
you what now
opaque grotto
We send 15 people through the wall at once at the beginning
honest iris
has the ss bug been fixed? I've been trying it on dummies and my garrote damage isnt being reset
opaque grotto
We use spirit link, darkness, priest bubble, etc
honest iris
I am doing garote x3 rupture garrote
rip nvm the tooltip still shows the shrouded one but the damage is weaker
buoyant badger
we did 15 ppl first wall and 19 the second, its when 19 ppl go at once i sometimes died with just untalented feint
and you also dont need to "through the wall and afk", save only ranged dps in first room, tank it at the exit and melee in room#2 can hit trough
strange python
So with MA. Why do we now vanish TB? Does the TB crit hit harder than an envenom hit? Or is there still time to envenom mut envenom after the TB use?
vestal abyss
No idea
I dont vanish TB
I TB vanish
Maybe its safer?
The chance to get 4 CP out of mutilate is not 100%
keen spruce
I haven't noticed a significant difference
either way
TB hits pretty hard
proabbly comparable to envenom
strange python
@vestal abyss my logic is that the average damage is higher than a possible 3 or 4 point envenom
But i have not tested it
vestal abyss
what does a TB crit for? 14k?
keen spruce
TB is 53% AP
5 point envenom is 80% AP
4 point is 64%
3 point is 48%
with TB buffing nature damage on envenom
probably better to TB then vanish
vestal abyss
agreed
strange python
That was always my understanding but according to the sim APL you vanish then TB
vestal abyss
Maybe the APL is wrong
strange python
It sims the best results. But i dont know why.
keen spruce
If you have 4cp, vanish tb envenom
you get envenom buff ticking with tb buff
1 gcd quicker
strange python
Last tier with shoulders you would tb to max cp vanish envenom mut envenom
keen spruce
not sure if that matters
lone junco
@vestal abyss tb crit is in the 22-25k range
keen spruce
does the APL want you to vanish TB on 4 cp?
lone junco
i would vanish at 3, with MA if you have the choice
vestal abyss
either 3 or zero i assume
keen spruce
with 0 you have to tb mut envenom
i guess it doesn't matter
cuz you'd tb envenom mute
strange python
It would have to be a 3 cp vanish to make it more effective
keen spruce
otherwise
vestal abyss
with 3 you have to tb envenom mute
keen spruce
and you're only going to get 3 gcd's out of subterfuge right?
so it doesnt' make a huge difference
strange python
@lone junco +1
lone junco
3cp vanish TB env Mut Env is a strong round.
keen spruce
if you don't TB before vanish you're not getting 2 MA env
strange python
@lone junco any idea why TB is a higher prior than an envenom after vanish?
lone junco
might let you squeeze 3 env in the TB
strange python
Does the TB activate and still leave enough GCD to envenom mut envenkm
lone junco
cause TB crits hard as hell.
vestal abyss
so does envenom tho
lone junco
just run the sim and read apl.
keen spruce
envenom increases poison application chance
lone junco
there are a lot of conditions like 1ss.
keen spruce
not nature damage
muted owl
!talents
muted owl
what are talents for AoE or M+ in general
lone junco
MA 50crits to the TB and the Env.
gloomy blaze
is the subterfuge garrote bug fixed yet?
lone junco
you can tb before the vanish, but if you low crit the mut you get 1 move
keen spruce
if you TB to 5cp, vanish envenom mut envenom
lone junco
its only 3 sec.
keen spruce
those 2 envenom crits should always do more damage
lone junco
Tb vaniah ENV mut . mut.
strange python
@lone junco it must be because the TB on average hits harder than a 3cp mut
vestal abyss
it must be but the math doesnt check out
gloomy blaze
anyone know if the subterfuge garrote bug is fixed yet?
keen spruce
2 is 32% ap, 3 is 48%, 4 is 64%
lone junco
that vanish env mut mut. is less than vanish Tb env mut?
keen spruce
TB is 53%
strange python
@lone junco yea its more reliable
Makes perfect sense to me now
keen spruce
so I guess yeah
crimson marsh
is that a legit strategy? 15m at a time? 😄
lone junco
AND also. if you crit the mut you may get a 3rd env in tb
strange python
I think the concept of a rb vanish 5cp envenom mut envenom(3cps) would do more
keen spruce
higher chance for a 3rd envenom if you vanish then TB
probably pushes it over i guess
I kind of find myself just doing whatever is more convenience when vanish come off CD
convenient
vestal abyss
WIll it still be better if we would have 100% crit?
lone junco
100% crit and 5 sec made a lot of difference.
but tb crits are +2cp and 25k env crits are 4-5cps and 35k
we only get 3 sec.
thats why I hated squeezing knife in there as well.
strange python
@keen spruce we will not reach 100% crit now even with ma. 50% crit will not be as good as the mastery weight that catches up with diminishing returns
lone junco
speculation
keen spruce
I dond't think it makes a significant difference
lone junco
and it may be wrong. TC runs a bunch of tests. but as you gain crit, what you do during MA may change.
as it slides toward 100%
keen spruce
yeah there's probably a bubble point where one is better than the other
lone junco
a lot of top logs are still running subterfuge +1ss
so idk
probably the old buffed logs tho
keen spruce
i'm sure some people just kept their SS gear cuz it was still simming higher
kind of hard to farm out high ilvl azerite
gloomy blaze
speaking of subterfuge, is that sub+garrote bug still in the game?
vestal abyss
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
keen spruce
and if you have a piece with SS you might as well use sub
keen spruce
yeah but like, we've only had what? 3 caches
so outside of raid gear, where are you gonna find azerite gear with better traits
strange python
@lone junco will be 370-385 ss pieces
balmy cradle
Can confirm running 1x arch 2x ss aswell
gloomy blaze
@vestal abyss if i am not running ss traits will that not effect the empowered garrotes at all then?
strange python
Most 370 archive x 2 sims higher just down to pure stat gain over thr 340 bits
vestal abyss
@gloomy blaze What?
spice surge
Playing assa on mythic zul 😄
vestal abyss
is it funny because they are empty?
lone junco
not a single one
vestal abyss
good to know
spice surge
Assa cant do 35k ST dps when there is 6 mobs up
vestal abyss
might aswell switch for that fight then, the rotation is 2 buttons anyway
Does mythic zul just have a lot more adds relative to heroic?
spice surge
Sortof, they respawn unless they die with a specific debuff on them (only 1 debuff active at all times, which jumps around when you purge it)
So they respawn, and you dont have everyone killing the adds because the rogues get so much damage
lone junco
they have to die before they explode still?
strange python
@lone junco lol!!!!
I just opened different apps on my phone to see the logs thinking my phone was wrecked
And then opened on my laptop ans realised there wasnt a single log
spice surge
Yes noobe, but they respawn afterwards unless they have the debuff
azure palm
is taloc a difficult fight to maintain high dps as an ass rogue?
lone junco
I actually enjoyed sub on Host. was pretty mongo, but dps was absurd.
strange python
@azure palm yes but no
lone junco
a trash cleave fight in one of the legion raids
strange python
Add phase we loose overall dps. But if adds are dead or your allowed to go straight back onto the boss. We cab have exceptional taloc damage to boss
azure palm
i can hit a solid 14k dps on most fights but im very low for taloc @ 7-9k
spice surge
Hmm link didnt work
strange python
During the lift phase he takes 1% damage
waxen blaze
You think crimson tempest proccing Venemous Wounds would be too overpowered?
lone junco
@azure palm the elevator phase can be pretty boring if your ranged are good.
vestal abyss
I still put up full blinds just before the damage reduction is going in to get the extra energy
Pray for a DK tank to grip everything 😛
paper bay
Excuse me, anyone here good with Macros? need help making a shroud cd to type in chat the remaining timer for party to see.
calm grail
Thats probably a WA they need.
vestal abyss
http://luatut.com/crash_course.html
If all else fails
azure palm
err whats SS
vestal abyss
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
lone junco
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
spice surge
Yeye
lone junco
i have like 45 sec total as sub this expac
but that is pretty
saw tisumi get to 80% mastery.
ivory raptor
Hey guys i'm new to this discord hopeing that some ppl can help me with my assa rogue 😦 I'm currently raidleading my guild but got the feeling, that i'm underperforming dps-wise and that makes me a bad role-model for my ppl. Can someone maybe look over 1-2 logs of me and maybe help me improve? Would be greatly appreciated
ivory raptor
If its constructive burning, I'd be glad 😉
HC: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fTwCpdA8RkmZN6Wz#view=rankings&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2 and Myth Taloc: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FWbrJMAj9pL1CT6f#fight=8 (dont worry about the others' dps)
Ah my Rogue is "Ledineh"
calm grail
I leveled as sub for some reason. Then did Outlaw for 2 weeks.
Been assassin since.
I really should be going Sub for Zul. From what I gather the stat weights for ST are p much identical.
vestal abyss
@ivory raptor First of all, where is vendetta?
calm grail
Just have to re trait.
signal summit
Nira
Ur not going st traits
On zul
@calm grail
U go as much mastery as u Can
And as little haste as possible
solid nova
@ivory raptor
Improvements
-You need to work on your garrote and rupture uptimes, they're extremely low on some logs
-Your opener is wrong, please refer to the guide in the channel heading
-You're tripple mutilating on numerous occasions which is a waste of CPs
-You're not utilising your TB windows and in some cases not envemoning at all during it, which is a total waste of the buff Toxic Blade gives you
Lots of basics you still need to grasp mate, but all covered in the pinned resources here.
signal summit
Okok
calm grail
That's*
calm grail
Makes sense.
gritty solstice
axsanguionate vs toxic blade for m+?
calm grail
Exsanguinate.
ivory raptor
@solid nova thanks for that, thats very comprehensing! 😃
solid nova
No problem. I can look a bit further into it when I'm not at work. Just comments based off first glance.
kindred flame
TB buff is for envenom, on M+ as sin rogue you don't throw many evenoms. Exsang is better burst which you need in M+ in most occasions, so you chose
vestal abyss
I cant stress this enough: are you using vendetta and vanish @ivory raptor
calm grail
With my 385 Double Dose those TB windows feel like valuetown
ivory raptor
@vestal abyss apparently... wow seems like i noobishly forgot it on that particular fight O.o
opaque grotto
Honestly the fact that your parses are green after looking at them really scares me
Like that means there’s a decent chunk of people doing worse
west gate
;D
ivory raptor
It scares me as well honestly...
signal summit
Xd
shut viper
what traits are u guys going for raid?
edgy latch
the best ones i have
vestal abyss
array, ss, other stuff
edgy latch
aiming for specific traits is impossible
opaque grotto
I’m taking 1 archive 2 SS but that’s because my luck with azerite gear is awful
edgy latch
because of a shit system
shut viper
why is ss so fkig low on bloodmallet?
opaque grotto
I think the sim is ran with MA
edgy latch
because ss is shit ST
shut viper
its low on hectic too
opaque grotto
And no SS isn’t shit ST
kindred flame
Shit ST is not accurate at all
opaque grotto
Don’t spread false news
vestal abyss
its not terrible, it makes your opener a lot smoother
opaque grotto
Also the sim uses TB and not exsang
waxen arch
Can someone link the ravenholdt guide in the chat, cant press it on My cellphone, please
waxen arch
Iphone
opaque grotto
Yeah same here
waxen arch
Cant get the link lmao
west gate
Can any one help me improve my logs on Ghuun and Mythrax having a hard time improving them. Maybe some one could help me improve? Would be greatly appreciated
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/ravencrest/drgirlfriend?mode=detailed&zone=19#difficulty=4
waxen arch
!pin
azure palm
should i try for 3x SS azerite pieces?
opaque grotto
Also @edgy latch if you look at #tc-updates it says SS isn’t properly listed on herodamage and with the proper setup it’s actually #2 behind DD
azure palm
or keep 1 355 archive of titans chest and get shoulders/helmet?
opaque grotto
So please don’t say it’s “shit”
strange python
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
lone junco
@shut viper SS is low because they aren't using subterfuge.
tribal marlin
if I garrote out of shadowmeld in raid it does take SS modifier right ?
but not subterfuge one
opaque grotto
Press shadowmeld and find out
tribal marlin
it does generate 3cp, don't active CD but seems like the damage are not what they are supposed to be
opaque grotto
I don’t think shadowmeld causes subterfuge to activate
tribal marlin
it doesnt for sure
opaque grotto
So it probably just gets empowered by the trait and not subterfuge
opaque grotto
Better than nothing
onyx leaf
Are we actually using 2x archive and 1x DD for azerite traits? No more SS?
vestal abyss
no
onyx leaf
What are we going for then? Currently I have 1x SS, 1x DD and 1x Archive. Hero Dmg is just a bit confusing tbh.
ebon garden
silent parcel
Why does SS sim so low on ST on bloodmallet
opaque grotto
SS with subterfuge/exsang is #2 behind DD
strange python
@silent parcel Check pins
opaque grotto
It’s because the bloodmallet sims use the wrong talents
silent parcel
Ah sry
opaque grotto
It uses master assassin instead of subterfuge
high ingot
bloodmallet sims with different talents because thats the new theoretical bis setup. herodamage takes different talent into account
strange python
!SS
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
calm grail
Tried the MA opener without SS (I have 385 DD and DiTB) and it felt weird at first. The general gist seems to be a cast vendetta before you vanish and use TB out of stealth.
strange python
wtf it still bugged?
calm grail
Yeah.
cerulean walrus
RIP Kingsbane you will always have my heart
calm grail
I think if you can, try to go into stealth with three CPS.
opaque grotto
Opener without SS/subter is so residentsleeper
I’m pretty sure you can just go vanish > TB > Mut > evenom
And that’s ideal
calm grail
Yeah but I think being able to TB envenom muti envenom would be ideal.
cerulean walrus
It felt so weird swapping back to MA though cause you couldn't get your Subt garrotes in
calm grail
If you had 3 cp going into vanish.
calm grail
Yeah
dusty crow
am i the only guy still playing exsang?
calm grail
No
opaque grotto
No I’m using exsang
strange python
its Vendetta > vanish > tb > muti > envenon and u continue
nah without 100% crit chance its shitty
cerulean walrus
Exang is better if you have the haste for it
calm grail
I play exsanguinate too sometimes.
dusty crow
i hate tb
cerulean walrus
TB is ezmode
dusty crow
plus i love getting crazy numbers on my exsang WA
craggy helm
TB gets you those big numbahs though
dusty crow
what?
calm grail
You use what's best for what you're doing ezzz
craggy helm
The big critzzz
cerulean walrus
Exsang gets you huge numbers too if you're built for it
onyx osprey
hi
cerulean walrus
Oh lmao
onyx leaf
how do u build for exsg?
dusty crow
you can use dooms wake with exsang and spike at 30k+ easily
strange python
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
craggy helm
All about seeing those big numbahs
calm grail
This is going to be a controversial statement, but your traits and your stats and the bosses will dictate what setup is best for you.
opaque grotto
I miss my 50k openers though
cerulean walrus
Get a lotta haste, and a lotta crit @onyx leaf
opaque grotto
Before SS nerf
craggy helm
Yeah, stupid destro lock opener destroys us
dusty crow
stackking spyglass with dooms wake...
opaque grotto
I’m still using fathoms/galecaller
craggy helm
Doesn't dooms wake only drop from the world boss?
dusty crow
dooms wake is insanly broken for the opener
opaque grotto
I didn’t get doom’s wake :/
opaque grotto
My azerite gear is holding my ilvl back so bad
I’m 371.5 equipped with 2 340 azerite pieces equipped
craggy helm
Jesus. I thought I had it bad. I'm 365 with 2 340s
opaque grotto
I’m asshole linked his 17k dps sim at 379 ilvl in here the other day
Like alright m8 thank you
craggy helm
Lol
This azerite piece stuff is such garbage. Like... I've done the raid bosses that drop it basically every week, used my rolls on them, done the world bosses, and got mythics done for a chest. Still missing too.
Literally impossible
Two*
strange python
Azerite system is garbo
kindred flame
I still have 340 weapons 🤷 other rogue got Heroic and Mythic MOTHER daggers
craggy helm
At least the weapons are farmable though. Like... You have that content that you can continue to do that...if you didn't have such statistical bad luck, would drop your weapon.
wheat zealot
^
main blaze
opaque grotto
You using DD?
Oh you have 2x SS
The fuq
I guess that makes sense
But you have 2x unstable flames and 1x overwhelming power
Might skew your stat weights away from crit/haste
opaque grotto
Looks like you can just take ilvl though based on those weights
wanton wagon
So, for someone who just runs h-uldir pugs and m+, what do I bonus roll on? Azerites from uldir, right?
faint sleet
What does the opener look like for double dose/executioner build?
hollow stone
It depends on your gear, of course. But, az pieces, weapons, and trinkets are usually your best bet for rolls
hollow stone
Yea. Trinkets from m+
Not uldir :p
Zul is good as he drops a dagger and the only az shoulders in uldir
fervent beacon
@wide gale Please don't tell people to shut up because you're a bad rogue to already begin with
And it's players like you with terrible attitude why I stopped even helping people here because you don't know how to sim and am too lazy to learn it yourself.
thorn grove
Oof
dusty crow
lets keep it cool guys
dusty crow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aLT5tFko4iYqefKLaX2aRc based on this i should defo be going TB, but is it much harder to play? I kinda mastered exsang and have never even tried TB
hollow stone
You can bonus roll m+ too, i specified m+ trinkets :/
opaque grotto
Yea you just press TB
bright shale
Oh sorry misread. At work
dusty crow
you dont have to use anything before/after?
bright shale
No
kindred flame
Well with the part that you wanna throw as much envenom as you can during TB uptime
bright shale
It's nice to be able to envenom after but not required
opaque grotto
I mean you can pool a little bit to make sure you get 2 envenoms within it
kindred flame
Might wanna get as much energy as possible aswell, thats about it
No need to stress to much about it tho
dusty crow
exsang is higher burst right?
bright shale
It wont make or break you to pool energy for envenom if it means less casts of TB per fight
dusty crow
and tb more sustain?
opaque grotto
I guess? Idk they nerfed SS so it’s not really as insane anymore
bright shale
You wanna TB on cooldown for the most gain
faint sleet
Is there a good resource that explains the new simc default profile using master ex. And double dose?
bright shale
Pooling and not casting TB will likely net a dps liss
I used to do that. And since I started casting it on CD my numbers have gone way up
The one caveat is you dont wanna cast it on CD if you're going to be changing off that target
Because it debuffs the enemy. Not buff you
So you must remain on that target
strange python
Try to pool before tb comes up.
cyan stump
is it better to exsg on cd or should i refresh rupture and garrote first?
dusty crow
IMO hold exsang for at least 25seconds of rupture, but I'm not an expert
I try to time it so that im refreshing as it comes off CD rather than holding exsang
one thing I dont know though, is if its worth wasting a combo point to get to max to apply a max rupture before exsang
so say you're at 4 and exsang is coming off
do you mut, rupture, exsang?
marble gull
against 2 targets in m+ during opener, do you rupture both before using envenom ?
lone junco
I haven't spent a lot of time worrying about rupture at the mid block exang. The most important thing to me is to not delay your vendetta sync.
@cyan stump if you have GC trinkets. Exang control with that is priority.
Meaning. If you look at logs of various bosses there is 1 or 2 exang between vanish. And it depends on fight timings.
dusty crow
so hold your third exsang for vendetta/vanish?
lime panther
Yes
lone junco
Whatever happens. You don't want to lose a vendetta vanish exsang at the end of the fight because you held 5 sec too long 3 times.
lime panther
Exeng w opener / on gc refresh and hold for third w vend / van
waxen arch
Only for me rupture sims higher than garote? (Using the program that shows damage %) should i vanish->rupture instead of garotte? I have no ss traits
cyan stump
duration of garrote and rupture on the target doesnt matter?
lone junco
Apl doesn't do that. But vectis timing is closer to that.
dusty crow
meh I dont have a GC yet 😦 I'm using a 370 dooms
stable oxide
Any assassination rogue that is on Fetid Devour Mythic yet?
hollow stone
Its not an actual dps loss if you xsang w gcb
lone junco
But in fights with vulnerable phases and waves like vectis. It seems to be best to sync.
You can see Tyrarolls logs with 1archive 2ss. GC.
Simple rotation and a complete monster.
lime panther
Without ss I've been gar /mut / gar / rup / vend
hollow stone
Every other xsang should line up w your van vend
lone junco
Without SS. Try ma/tb
lime panther
That's cuz archive is giving like 24% haste
hollow stone
So the one between doesnt matter as long as its used 1m prior to your vend van
lone junco
@hollow stone you still playing ss/GC?
hollow stone
Im playing outlul atm cause i got better weaps n traits for it 😩
lime panther
Oh, do tell lol
lavish citrus
when is the assassination guide going to be updated for TB/MA and the SS nerfs?
lone junco
But it's got a def dip.
hollow stone
23 base, im assuming?
lone junco
So if the profile hits that point. Then people will see an artificial low in the SS
20+archive =23ish
hollow stone
And then gcb puts you over the top, yeah. I could see that
lime panther
Yeah gcb gets to like 45-55%ish
hollow stone
It "might" be worth running mfd in some situations given that info. Just feelycrafting tho
lime panther
Too much net loss with mfd u feel dry af
hollow stone
But the extra max energy is so good for opener
Yeah, i know
Vectis for example, could be a good mfd fight given your haste values
lone junco
lime panther
Be nice to double mfd on each add
hollow stone
Since you can mfd every 30sec ish
lone junco
Disclaimer about stats not being singular.
It goes from best to last to best to 2nd.
Haste is blue.
waxen arch
Lol tf
lone junco
I am at 0 with 19.8%
So it was top. Then tanks. Then jumps
So at +300h and it's back to top again.
hollow stone
Huh. Thats bizarre
lone junco
The apl is bizarre.
So it may have to do with timings
But I currently am in a haste bottom stat weight condition. And that didn't make sense.
But at +300its over agi again.
lime panther
Honestly 20% seems to be the static # to hit for haste
Then mast starts taking over with agil being the never ending top weight
Assuming ur crit is above 25%
25/20/30+/? Has netted me highest Sims and output
I'm 370 at 15.7k
dusty crow
guys do you bind your GCB to exsang?
harsh glacier
is SS still best for M+? Im so confused by latest sims
opaque grotto
Agility was worse than haste for me at one point yamsa
harsh glacier
also just got a 385 Harlans 😄
hollow stone
Yea. Theres definitely a "soft cap" to haste. Not 100% sure what it is, or if its dependent on char, but it's hard to hit a haste point where it feels wasted
At least with current ilvl max
cerulean walrus
@harsh glacier SS dominates in M+
hollow stone
Its best to macro exsang to gcb and track gcb since it has the longer cd and it will still line up for your vends
harsh glacier
even now? Bloodmallet has it simming so damn low it makes me think something basic like rezan's fury could be better?
hollow stone
Ss is still best for m+ in a general sense, ilvl may change that a bit from a char sense. The reason its so low on bloodmallet is that bloodmallet default isnt using subterfuge which drastically sways the value of ss