nah. most use exang in M+. it feeds energy ticks to get your foks going
#assassination
lone junco
inner pecan
You can run Exsg and PB together if you want to use PB for a certain key
ie. high tyra Temple/KR
hollow stone
Im not hatin', we homies. But does anyone else find it ironic that so many people in here take advice from a @lone junco?
patent walrus
don't judge a book by it's cover, eh? :p
wary temple
Guilty of it. I figure he’s here everyday and has knowledge so I just trust him enough lol
queen tiger
Deadly on main and quick on off, or it doesnt matter?
lusty dew
He’s like a database, he retains and provides information quickly
pallid bluff
doesnt matter
queen tiger
ok thanks
nocturne mulch
hey, did something happen to bloodmallet? or did I miss some new round of nerfs to SS? it's like one of the bottom traits now
fresh coyote
is something wrong with the bloodmallet azerite trait sims? SS is like the 3rd last
pallid bluff
SS doesnt sim correctly cause of the apl
hollow stone
That was spooky
pallid bluff
bloodmallet sims also dont accoutn for restealths
at least for the aoe ones
ST its not amazing anymore
nocturne mulch
So there is no proper way to sim this though? even with the 6t 40sec sim?
pallid bluff
the apl only uses 2 garrotes instead of 3
daring imp
lul
pallid bluff
so even on a sim like that its still not valued correctly
lone junco
@hollow stone If I'm wrong on something. Lmk.
hollow stone
Youre not usually wrong, i just find it ironic that the noob is schoolin people on how to play lol @lone junco
lone junco
I picked the name years ago. Self deprecating. Can't call me a noob if my name is noob.
sweet sedge
but doesnt everyone call u a noobe?
lone junco
Just checked. Not quite 100k
lone junco
Was Noobey after a server xfer.
But re: my advices. I'm not a sim purist. I don't believe that there is a sim out there that exactly represents all fights. Engineering judgement is a professional way to say feelycraft. Or intuition Backed up by modeling and verified by actual results.
serene barn
how do you guys deal with the actionbar swapping that happens with subterfuge? im kinda a noob
lone junco
I put skills in the same spot.
pallid bluff
^
lone junco
Garrote is 2 in stealth and out
serene barn
oh
i kinda liked having sap on 3 in stealth
but yea i guess ill have to put it elsewhere
pallid bluff
you could also just put shit on completely separate bars that don't change. at least with elvui only the primary bar changes
nocturne mulch
so if I'm going for the trash killer build with exang + ct, and I have >3 targets of trash, invis -> garrote as many as I can with subterfuge, into CT + exsang? or do I put ruptures up before exsang
daring imp
i have cheap shot in shift + g, not on the regular stealth bar
serene barn
i tried that vel, but then my vehicle actionbar wasnt 12345
daring imp
not sure if you pvp tho
serene barn
just had to click the whole turtle water quest xd
serene basin
Yea i use domino's and everything I'd like to see on bar 1 in/out of stealth is identical
and anything I don't need to see on "offbars"
daring imp
i can't not see offbars, gotta keep using them toy macros
serene basin
opie is life
daring imp
what does it do? @_@"
lone junco
Hot swap ui for macros.
serene barn
daring imp
oh
serene barn
comes up when i press f6
serene basin
100/100
daring imp
nah probably wouldn't fit all the macros/toys on that
serene basin
you can have like 100
pallid bluff
yeah and they can get pretty big
daring imp
100 buttons?
daring imp
ok but like 30
pallid bluff
how many toy macros do you have
daring imp
opie huh
serene basin
changes lives
daring imp
lemme check
pallid bluff
good lord
serene barn
and i feel sorry for u if all of ur actionbars are covered with 30 different toy macros
serene basin
yea thats the real question
all these toy macro's
are you getting paid to do shows
topaz beacon
Whats the best m_ spec
pallid bluff
all are basically the same
daring imp
well all toy macros are on the main rotation to make sure i always use somthing
pallid bluff
some are better at other things than others
serene barn
i made a Switch Language Macro for my opie f7 on my Void Elf character so I can harass blood elves in pvp. best thing of my life
daring imp
gotta have some use for them lul
pallid bluff
IE outlaw is better at burst aoe, sub better at priority damage
serene barn
if all rogue specs are teh same for AoE
why do both Warcraftlogs and this other ranking site have sin as #1 overall
is it just cuz more ppl play it?
serene barn
oh im not tryn to say ur dumb
im dumb
i started playin a rogue yesterday
im just wonderin
pallid bluff
sin is probably the most general purpose right now
grand trail
pverhelmig power vs heed my call?
serene barn
im talkin about this website btw http://mplus.subcreation.net/ also has sin as #1
daring imp
what he meant with "all are basically the same" is probably regarding the overall output given its advantages and disadvantages over each other
pallid bluff
^
lone junco
@hollow stone And most of the people asking questions aren't on mythic Zul. So a lot of the high end responses go over heads. Not everyone has 425 days /played on their rogue.
daring imp
probably has that ranking with sin at #1 because of aoe slow and overall dmg
i'd say mostly because of aoe slow, kiting is the best this week
topaz beacon
so if you had more snake eyes traits just go outlaw?
daring imp
@serene barn
topaz beacon
if the gear yo have has traits that favor a spec better to just go that ?
serene barn
ya but sin is #1 for all affixes as well if u switch to that category
daring imp
oh i didn't see, lemme check
serene barn
and warcraftlogs also has it #1 for overall
pallid bluff
if you dont have at least 2 SS i wouldnt go sin
daring imp
i just read "Spec Strength: Tyrannical, Raging, Necrotic, Infested" and assumed that's why it was on top
pallid bluff
but all specs are viable for pushing and doing high keys
daring imp
yea ^
topaz beacon
yeah i have had 0 luck getting a single SS
pallid bluff
slows also arent jsut useful on raging necrotic weeks
daring imp
Fortified, Sanguine, Necrotic, Infested
pallid bluff
tanks kite alot in high keys
daring imp
also sub on top on Fortified, Sanguine, Necrotic, Infested
a week where slows aren't that good
or sanguine fucks shit up
i mean you can make it work
just ...
pallid bluff
well shit lives longer on fortified so sub can just Shuriken storm>evis forever
daring imp
don't use crippling lul
unkempt wing
Where u guys check which spec is best für what affixes v
pallid bluff
makes sense why it would be higher
some website that was linked higher up
id never seen it before though so not sure how accurate it is
daring imp
http://mplus.subcreation.net/ not sure where this site gets those info tho, maybe blizz leaderboard?
oh
raider.io api
nvm then
yea it's credible, gives an overall idea of which classes are performing the higher keys
pallid bluff
yeah thers alot more ass rogues in top ranks than sub or outlaw but thats probably just because slows are op
and our overall is probably slightly higher than the others for most weeks
and most dungeons
upper shoal
still SS/SB for mythic+ right
pallid bluff
yeah i think SS is still substantially better
lone junco
It's consistent that's for sure.
dark niche
does assa work with 1 ss? or atleast 2+
lone junco
It works. Raid can be 1ss 1ditb 1archive. Just needs to be your top sim.
dark niche
for m+ aswell?
flat laurel
Is it fine to have in M+ 1SS + 2 archive or 2SS + 1 archive?
Which one is better overall? The sim is about the same, but what is the different
lone junco
@flat laurel which sim did you use for m+?
daring trench
Hi guys, 3 AotT sims 0.2% better in patchwerk style than one SS & 2AotT for me, but i still think its better in uldir to keep one SS if it sims only 0.2% behind, what do you think?
daring imp
tfw pallies got better movement skills than you 
clever tartan
Yes keep one SS because there will be multiple targets on some fights
terse pawn
wait what
daring imp
8.1 ptr
vocal wave
Is there any gear that's worth rerolling for?
vocal wave
As in, is there something that's simply too good to not use a seal for?
clever tartan
Weapons or azerite
terse pawn
and then cry when you don't get it but it titanforges to 380 for someone else
for sin? really?
clever tartan
Yea
terse pawn
the haste buff is massive for me
clever tartan
Since i have a 385 on use trinket already
silk sundial
Heroic/mythic mother for the dagger
slim sand
Hey, what's the opener with Master Assassin?
clever tartan
Im rolling mythic mother
pallid bluff
i would personally roll mother and fetid cause i only do M+ anyway but weapons are the main thing you want
terse pawn
fetid has a weapon?
clever tartan
No
pallid bluff
no it has a SS azerite
clever tartan
The ss chest
terse pawn
oh
clever tartan
Good stuff
terse pawn
what's heroic, 360?
pallid bluff
370
terse pawn
too bad fetid is way harder on mythic
silk sundial
Hope to get the m mother dagger on Monday 😁
terse pawn
jesus
hardy anchor
About damn time
clever tartan
Might buy fathoms if the price is right
hardy anchor
Any trinket sim lists with Lion's Guile in there?
Got a 375 one today, I assume it sims higher than Fathoms?
sweet sedge
FINALLY got a 355 dagger out of tol dagor..... now just to replace the other one
proper igloo
Are there any ss Azerite pieces in uldir?
pallid bluff
fetid chest
sweet sedge
yes
clever tartan
Fathoms would be better than 375
silk sundial
Iirc, bloodmallet Sims lions guile but herodamage does not
proper igloo
so we go crit mastery for m+ right?
silk sundial
I use lions guile w/ fathoms
hardy anchor
BiS trinkets :' ) Feeling good.
pallid bluff
yeah crit mastery for M+
wintry parcel
@pallid bluff I'm assuming that's Outlaw?
unreal jewel
What do you guys reckon is the best Assassination build? Trying to see if I could be doing a better build or if I'm using the wrong talents.
pallid bluff
for raid or m+?
silk sundial
Does bloodmallet use tb or exang build?
unreal jewel
Uh... Raiding.
grim mason
#feelsbadman 40+ runs in tol +5 and above no daggers 😦
nothing from reg mother or heroic mother I want to die
pallid bluff
the best talents vary for raiding depending on your gear and azerite traits. sim yourself
unreal jewel
I've been simming. Not working out so well. Sim data off of Raidbots told me I should be doing like 12K DPS, and I only do like 8K or 9K. So I was trying to figure out if it was something I was doing wrong, or if it was my Talents.
I have two of the three 'BiS' Azerite pieces according to Bloodmallet.
clever tartan
Well it includes lust all buffs prepot pot etc
unreal jewel
Oh, okay. That's probably why.
pallid bluff
it also assumes you are a robot and never have to move for anything
and dont make mistakes
silk sundial
@hardy anchor looking at Sims lions guile is bis for tb build and galecallers for exang build
broken fiber
what were you doing 8 - 9k dps on? was it longer than 5 mins?
crisp hollow
lion's guile? where does that drop from
clever tartan
Dice is still better than guile
unreal jewel
It wasn't specified from what I saw, other than that it was simmed based on a patchwork fight.
clever tartan
Where are you looking at
unreal jewel
I'll do it again, sec.
clever tartan
Btw does raidbot quick sim include traits?
silk sundial
Lions guile/dooms wake. From the arathi world boss
unreal jewel
I think it does? The 'Top Gear' thing seems to, when you're trying to compare Azerite pieces.
but I think that you need to have the Azerite Traits you would want to compare selected in advance.
silk sundial
Hero damage tb build. Dooms wake at the very top
lone junco
@clever tartan you can check the HTML gear section and see what it used.
I simmed dooms wake a while back. It was like a 5% loss.
Maybe it's good for tb tho.
silk sundial
It's like 6th on the list with exang
unreal jewel
Sim's done. It said it simmed a fight for three hundred seconds.
silk sundial
My 355 gc Sims better with exang
unreal jewel
I guess that's also part of the problem, aside from my not using flasks and everything.
The fights would be longer than that.
Well. Sometimes.
pallid bluff
three hundred seconds is a VERY long patchwerk fight
most fights that are that length have alot of mechanics normally and a PW sim wouldnt represent that very well
clever tartan
@lone junco on my phone so had to pull from armory
unreal jewel
My main problem is that I can't even hit 12K again after my burst at the start of the fight.
I start out alright, and then it kind of just goes down the drain.
grim mason
keeping up your rups and garr?
pallid bluff
link logs from taloc or fetid
grim mason
rups should never fall off
clever tartan
What ilvl are you?
broken fiber
Is it even worth simming for 5min if like every fight in uldir is way longer
grim mason
link raidbots
gusty coral
When do we use toxic blade and when exsanguinate?
clever tartan
Lol my fetid fight in hc is 2 min
Toxic blade on cd
Exang same unless you can pair with galecaler or a garrote thats buffed
gusty coral
so opening would be garrote 5cp rupture exsan with gale?
silk sundial
Is it better to hold exang 15 seconds for gc?
shrewd shell
Meh, it's sad :(
unreal jewel
I try to, yeah. I keep my DoTs up.
broken fiber
It almost feels bad holding exsang that long for GC bu thats what ive been doing
unreal jewel
351 equipped, also.
sly owl
Dont we also hold exsang for vendetta?
unreal jewel
and I don't think there's logs out there for this toon yet.
silk sundial
If you use exang on cd rather than holding for gc, you get an extra cast and it pretty much lines up at the 2:20 mark anyways
sly owl
Hmmm ok, thanks!
unreal jewel
Yeah. This character's never been in a Raid that's been logged.
I plan on trying to Raid on her more, though.
silk sundial
@lone junco how you do?
strange python
So I just got Galecaller's. On m+ trash do I want to get all bleeds up then pop it or pop it in my opener and get bleeds out a bit faster?
tawdry breach
Can someone explain this? I really don't understand this. SnD for sin?
pallid bluff
im assuming those are Datamined changes
terse pawn
evis is sub, first off
pallid bluff
and by that i mean its just not reading it correctly
we arent getting slice and dice
terse pawn
the only finisher we have is rupture
tawdry breach
Yea that would be odd
terse pawn
so i guess it does that?
pallid bluff
no we have envenom too
terse pawn
only other finisher*
unless it makes your envemon refresh your envemon to max, which doesn't make sense
pallid bluff
is that from wowhead?
pallid bluff
yeah there are always weird stuff like that in the stuff they datamine
astral snow
Hey guys 
tawdry breach
Indeed, I guess we can speculate about a new trait that plays around SnD/RtB durations being refreshed to its 5 combo points maximum for outlaw. that would be interesting
astral snow
Is Shrouded Suffocation still the best trait for Mythic+?
pallid bluff
yes
yeah but with stuff like that all you can do is speculate
some of that shit may have been remnants from stuff at launch that didnt get put in, stuff for three patches down the line, ect
tawdry breach
Yea, there are still so many class changes that 8.1 will bring which we know nothing about. I don't think rogue will see many changes, we're in a pretty good spot imo
astral snow
So for M+ I want 3 Shrouded Suffocation and 3 Heed my Calls, right? For Raid and stuff I want Double Dose and Unstable Flames if I understand it right. Can someone confirm? 😄
cold inlet
Is the uldir traits like archive and laser bad for rogues?
tawdry breach
Best to sim that @astral snow, but yes x3 SS for M+ seems to yield the best results
pallid bluff
for M+ tou want 3xSS and the tier 2s are less important, heed my call is good, OP is okay
you cant sim M+ well in general and SS doesnt sim correctly anyway
astral snow
I feel like HMC is better for bursting down groups
pallid bluff
best bet is to just try different stuff
versed apex
Does it not sim correctly because of the bug? Or other reasons?
pallid bluff
the apl uses it wrong
cold inlet
Its interesting simc doesnt have any uldir traits in their tier list on their site
pallid bluff
it only applys 2 garrotes instead of 3 on aoe openers
versed apex
Oh that's weird
cold inlet
Is it because the raid specific buff doesnt proc on patchwork
astral snow
and you usually cap after 2 garrotes
pallid bluff
yeah but using 3 is the best dps
astral snow
ik
grand trail
guys at same ilvl what is better? harlan dice or constructed overcharger
civic forge
sim, but dice likely is better
broken fiber
Imagine not simming
sweet sedge
eveyrone would be trying to wear exactly what icy veins has out since we couldnt simply find out what was best
cyan frost
370 Dread aspirant medallion vs 375 contruct overcharger for m+? which u guys think is better
hardy anchor
Dread Aspirant
near current
Do you refresh garrote/rupture when it is ticking from exsang or do you let it run out and reapply?
pallid bluff
let it run out
civic forge
let it run out
hardy anchor
If you refresh it'll negate the exsang
pallid bluff
reapply at 0.1 seconds ideally
near current
kk ty ❤
lone junco
If it is subterfuge SS. Even the last tick is better than a pandemic.
near current
Yee, I know to let SS die out, just never really researched about exsang. usually play TB
cold inlet
Ive been playing exclusive Exsang but now that SS got nerfed TB is going to be the way to go in raids for a good while because of how DD is going to scale with mastery, MP, and TB
arctic mulch
run tons of mythic+ shrine get no galecallers.
run a mythic0 for WQ and get 370 version
polar grail
#justRNGthings
grim mason
damn nice
glacial mist
340 SS pieces, or 370 pieces with like archive/inevitability for m+
which do you choose.
slim sand
whatever sims higher
pallid bluff
you would choose the SS pieces
glacial mist
sims do not perfectly tell what would happen in a m+
pallid bluff
maybe replace 1 SS with archive but ss still probably better
grim mason
I need help any US horde rogue want to help me w/ tol daggers lol i am tired of this bs
+5 or so
pallid bluff
see now if you had said +8 or higher i wouldeve been in
halcyon pendant
I have done today like 15 freeholds
timid gale
Sorry, what's SS wrt Azerite traits?
halcyon pendant
not a single dagger or trinket
grim mason
man my pugs I find sttruggle with +*
smoky topaz
hey there whats the best assa trait for m+ atm ?
grim mason
+8** so i been just going with 5's
pallid bluff
Shrouded Suffocation x3
fading spade
I rolled a 375 dice last night and almost screamed so loud I woke my wife up
smoky topaz
still shrouded?
pallid bluff
yes
smoky topaz
thought it got nerfed hard
grim mason
do druids have agi dagger on their loot tables?
pallid bluff
dont think so
vivid umbra
no they dont
halcyon pendant
but SS it's just for M+ right?
grim mason
so just freaking rogues!!!!
subtle tundra
i always run 1 ss no matter what
grim mason
fuck
pallid bluff
some people sim better with 1 ss and other stuff for ST but stacking them is mainly for M+
cold inlet
SS probably wont be any good anymore. Blizzard nerfed it by 40% again
vivid umbra
just don't want to fix the bug? lol
smoky topaz
ya thats what i ment
pallid bluff
your dont know what you are talking about
its low on bloodmallet because its not insane on ST
it is still extremely good for M+
and they havent said anything about another 40% nerf aside from the one that is already in
cold inlet
It was on a german site
pallid bluff
bloodmallet also defaults to the TB build now instead of exsang
so SS will sim lower still because it doesnt synergize with TB like it does exsang
also
sims are sims and arent perfect
vivid umbra
yeah, but its like 13k iterations usually, gonna be pretty close to average
pallid bluff
sure if the numbers for the trinkets are right and the apl is correct
which for aoe it is not for SS
smoky topaz
so go with 3 ss for m+?
pallid bluff
yup
vivid umbra
just dont garrote a 4th mob
vivid umbra
so you should use exsang on m+ then @pallid bluff?
wanton wagon
I got a 385 chest with scent of blood/unstable catalyst, honestly not gonna bother to grind a 340 ss chest even if it was better
pallid bluff
its not really much of a grind
wanton wagon
Nah I know haha
Wrong term maybe, farm would be better
But cba to waste time in m0 for maybe a slight upgrade
Can't really sim it either, so I dont know if it is an upgrade
385 gives health, i'm gonna convice myself that's worth it 😃
nocturne mulch
so what's the rotation for 3ss m+? garrote > garrote > garrote > rupture > exsang..? I feel really dumb with this
wanton wagon
Multitarget it's something like that into fok CT spam
pallid bluff
G>G>G>CT>FoK>Rupture>exsang>FoK>spread ruptures
pallid bluff
it depends if your garrotes apply poisons
pallid bluff
if they don't you should rupture
wanton wagon
Never considered that
nocturne mulch
do I take vigor still? talent build is 221XX33?
pallid bluff
yup
spiral furnace
will a 355 SS Chest be better than 385 Scent of Blood for m+ if i already have 2 SS pieces on head & shoulders?
wanton wagon
For two targets with 5cp on pull, I go r, g, g, r, exsang on one (if you wanna use it on that pull). There are lots of scenarios in m+
winged blaze
told my friend ill be switching to a sin rogue, he said is it because i get to fall asleep during raids
meh
wanton wagon
Haha, just because its low apm doesn't mean you can afk
paper aspen
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
pallid bluff
@spiral furnace they are probably pretty close
winged blaze
i know, he was clearly implying its low effort
pallid bluff
zodde if you are coming out of stealth its better to just use three garrotes
even if you waste CP like that
also how are you starting pulls with 5cp
wanton wagon
in m+? Last pack dies, i have 5cp, pulls next pack
nocturne mulch
@pallid bluff more dumb questions, is it worth reapplying garrotte outside of stealth (assuming it falls off all targets so you odn't bug it)
pallid bluff
shrug i never finish a pack with capped CP
just dump it into a envenom to kill stuff
ruby idol
Never in the history of playing has a mob ever died during gcd before envenom
Never ever
wanton wagon
Maybe i'm misplaying
wanton wagon
I think i'm just running low keys, getting dots up asap is important or everything just dies
ebon prism
Anyone know avg dps of sub vs sin in M+? Assuming 365 ilvl for both
balmy condor
what dungeon
pallid bluff
@nocturne mulch not 100% sure what the exact optimal way to do it is but ive been waiting till there are 3 targets left and then starting to reapply if they arent going to die too fast. other people who do high M+ might have more insight though
ruby idol
What comp?
wanton wagon
I think it's too broad of a question to ask, sorbitol
ruby idol
3 if all 3 mobs matter
pallid bluff
3+ @vocal wave
wanton wagon
I feel like higher keys, sin should pull ahead
balmy condor
It's sarcasm, theres no answer to that question sorbitol
vocal wave
Alright cheers
pallid bluff
i typically do 13.5-14k overall sometimes more or sometimes less depending on dungeon. also depeding on how big my tank pulls or how much he fucks me out of restealths
lots of factors go into it though
strange python
hmm cant kill 1st boss in waycrest +10 fml 😦
pallid bluff
366 in my m+ gear. i also play with a DH so shit gets bursted pretty hard
barren marsh
Bloodmallet says 3 stacks of shroud adds only a couple hundred dps..is this for real?lol
elder gulch
has shrouded suffication gone to shit? on blood mallet it is one of the worst trait. what happened?
barren marsh
Wtf
elder gulch
yeah i just saw
pallid bluff
someone needs ot pin that SS is still good
strange python
did anyone do a +10 waycrest with these affixes ?
ruby idol
If you're looking at sims for m+ as end all be all, you haven't actually taken any time to consider why ss is good
idle tiger
Wouldn't the main value of it be the combo points gained rather than the damage
ruby idol
I think I have a 13 done this week kneti
pallid bluff
bloodmallet probably did what herodamag did and moved to using the TB build as default
so its not going ot be as good
barren marsh
Yeah the 3 cp is definitely useful, but wow
ruby idol
What
barren marsh
Nerfed to the ground is an understatement
pallid bluff
and its not just the CP. the damage is still the best in M+
strange python
my group cant get past the triad witches, rogue warrior hunter holypriest and ww monk. like wtf? first 50% easy then get heal debuff + damage debuff sayonara
ruby idol
It has to do with how does a sim factor in restealths as frequent as you do in m+
340 ss is bis in all 3 slots over any 370 piece in keys
wanton quail
sim does not support restealthing
so of course SS is massively undervalued for dungeon
idle tiger
Ah
barren forge
whats a smooth haste breakpoint? 15% 16%?
pallid bluff
@strange python is your group moving to keep stacks of the debuff low on the second witch?
strange python
we're jumping, no stacks :X
pallid bluff
using defensives/potions to help the healer over the healing debuff
ebon prism
Ah ok thx for the info. I just wanted to see how much sin outperforms sub in M+ so I asked that general question. My assumption was that sub at 365 ilvl pulls 11-12k dps easily and sin at 365 ilvl probably 14k... Assuming average skill level
strange python
maybe we just lack damage? range from 9k - 11k
ruby idol
Use health pots/vial on nettles
If you're not dying to dire ritual
Then it's not a damage problem
pallid bluff
it might the healer cant keep up
strange python
not dieing but getting hit by it 😄
ebon prism
Lust on that 2nd boss
balmy condor
yeah sounds like a healer issue tbh
ruby idol
Then your dmg sucks
ebon prism
U should kill before dire ritual goes off
ruby idol
If you hit dire ritual in a 10
pallid bluff
well if your getting hit by the ritual your damageis bad
ruby idol
You have no dmg
balmy condor
that too
idle tiger
Someone might not be popping defensives and giving your healer a heart attack
pallid bluff
nah if they are getting hit by ritual then the healer is gonna have a hard time staying ahead
strange python
okay 😄 funny stuff is everytime the hunter gets mind controlled he insta pops turtle
shits annoying
ebon prism
Yay that's annoying
grim mason
i.o score goes up by doing higher keys?
ebon prism
Yah*. He needs to pop turtle before
wanton quail
you need to pre def cds yo
ruby idol
Mage has to pre block too
idle tiger
Yes, if you do them in time @grim mason
pallid bluff
yeah get more score by doing higher keys and by doing keys quickly
idle tiger
By 10 each difficulty I think
pallid bluff
its roughly 10 you will get more for doing them faster
ruby idol
Roughly but it's a ranking system, faster keys for higher levels are worth more
grim mason
got it
idle tiger
Such a weird system for scoreing tbh
pallid bluff
you still get points for depleting a key if you only deplete by like 10 seconds
ie deplete a 14 by 5 seconds and you may get 125 points
grim mason
lol
ruby idol
You get points for deplete always, it's just worth like 20+ less than a time key
pallid bluff
which is better than a 12
tranquil dust
is there an
ideal setup
yet?
for traits
currently running 2x archive and 1xss
pallid bluff
3x SS for m+
idle tiger
I thought you were scored compared to the performance of others in your role/class
idle tiger
Ew
daring imp
i don't think it's weird, it just gives you better score to actually doing it inside the dungeons time
daring imp
you can't tell me a group that took 10h to do a 14 kings rest deserve a score better than a group that did a 13 within +2 time
idle tiger
But tbh you could spam lower level myth+ then queue for a higher easily
daring imp
^
ruby idol
You're rewarded for doing the highest key you can, within the timer
lunar tangle
hello guys i recently have rerolled into assassination from arms warrior have been playing rogue throughout leigon i was just wondering whats the best traits i could get pre raid for azerite gear??
idle tiger
Are you going to be just doing raids?
lunar tangle
or what are the best traits i could go for like combinations of azerite
no im going to be raiding definitely but mostly focusing on m+
idle tiger
Try and head for the triple garrote one, fuck I forgot the name, Double Dose is good ive heard to. Check the pinned messages up top and theres everything you need
idle tiger
Thats it ^
lunar tangle
i have 3x shrouded suffocation and i also have x2 double dose
pallid bluff
double does is better for raid 1xSS 2xDD would be better for ST 3xSS for M+
lunar tangle
how would be an example of using the SS though
i just feel like i have no damage if i dont start out of stealth
like if the tank was chain pulling
pallid bluff
garrote 3 different targets from stealth>crimson tempest>FoK till 3+ CP> Rupture a garroted target>exsang>FoK>rupture
you dont do any damage if you dont start from stealth
make the tank stop chain pulling or hang back to get a restealth
ebon prism
Are we still max garroting 3 and don't garrote a 4th until those fall off?
grim mason
Tanks who chain pull w/ rogue is a dick and clueless
silk sundial
Did someone say that SS doesn't sim right using raidbots?
grim mason
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
idle tiger
For those times getty I find outlaw pretty good, only really works if you know the tanks style beforehand though
silk sundial
I've been playing sub and st as well as 4+ targets it is simming higher than sin. Possibly due to the fact it is wanting me to use 340 ss pieces lol
lunar tangle
LOL
grim mason
when they complain I ask what about my restealth
broken fiber
If they ever fix ss theyll prob nerf it again also
ebon prism
Ok ty
lunar tangle
@pallid bluff thank you very much
but i heard from one of the rogues that he doesnt go crimson tempst unless its a fortified week
nocturne mulch
do you use CT at all in m+ when fighting bosses?
grim mason
no
idle tiger
Tbh i'm in early myth+ since I just switched to as and i've been picking up anything with a higher ilvl and rolling whatever traits I find, works deccent so far lol. Will probably start stat prioritizing around +7
ruby idol
Ct vs pb is dungeon/comp/affix specific choice
pallid bluff
and CT is still better 95% of the time
lunar tangle
how about difference between exsang and toxic blade?
idle tiger
Yeah I was gonna ask, is the Poison knife/Exploding bottle thing bad for myth+?
broken fiber
But youll be able to get more garrotes out while your empowerd are still ticking, fun detected. they can't allow that.
idle tiger
Ah toxic blade,sorry.
strange python
How is Sin doing insane burst/damage in higher keys compared to other specs? I want to the secret ingredient!?!
daring imp
underrot?
ruby idol
Ct is pad dmg in underrot
visual token
Stab things with dagger to do good burst
ruby idol
Pulls are faster if you dont waste cps on it and instead dump into bloodswarmers
broken fiber
when is ct not pad
daring imp
^
broken fiber
ruby idol
Every pull in underrot has 2 jobs max that need to die
And the rest are nothings, that die faster if you tunnel the important mobs
lunar tangle
how about the difference between exsang and toxic blade which is more preferable and when
lyric crater
hey guys and ladys any one know off hand what bests trinkets atm
ruby idol
I mean I play just shy of 1400 and these are my thoughts on underrot
obtuse quiver
when you run ct do you make any other talent changes with it?
ruby idol
Take it as you will
pallid bluff
exsang for M+. sim yourself to determine which is better for raids @lunar tangle
@ruby idol both definetly have merit and honostly the choice probably ends up being 1 or 2% dps either way
lunar tangle
For M+ which sim do you go for hectic add cleave?
ruby idol
You dont sim, you feelycraft and stack crit :)
lunar tangle
alright
ruby idol
Really just wear highest ilvl, and rings you can swap stats out depending on dungeons if you have equal ilvl stuff
Like trash heavy dungeons like motherlode you take off haste rings in favor of crit mastery
pallid bluff
its also comp specific too, if you play with a DH and Frost mage. you can probably do to get more haste to help with boss damage since they will destroy trash
ruby idol
Boss and small trash dungeons like kr or temple you can run more haste in
silk sundial
340 ss sims higher than a 370 sob lol
idle tiger
Is it bad to have too much mastery?
Never really been one to juggle stats around much
daring imp
for m+, it is good to have mastery
wanton wagon
My crit just keeps going down 😦
blazing forge
strange python
wanton wagon
470 crit, 1200 haste, gg
strange python
👌
wanton wagon
gz
hollow leaf
do mobs still dodge from behind? or is that an old timer mechanic
wanton wagon
Did they ever dodge from behind?
strange python
also question regarding toldagor
terse pawn
mobs were never able to dodge from behind
strange python
is it common bug that first boss despawns?
terse pawn
you can still miss them from behind
hollow leaf
@terse pawnwut? they dodged from behind like up until wrath at least
"Players can only dodge attacks if they are facing their opponent, however a mob can dodge attacks that are from behind."
asking if I'm gonna miss dps from not being behind the boss like you used to
soft steppe
does anyone know why lion's guile shot up to bis for us in the last day or so?
daring imp
well from behind i think they do not have glancing
daring imp
not entirely sure tho
visual token
You want to be behind the boss. They removed hit rating, however there are still benefits from being behind the target.
ebon prism
Is this the right talents for m+ and 3x ss traits? 2212233?
strange python
the more mastery i get
master poisoner starts to sim even higher
its already simming 230dps more than eb
soft steppe
yes @ebon prism
ebon prism
Ty
toxic slate
Guys what is the difference if I put quick navigation main hand and off-hand deadly navigation ?
soft steppe
you should also consider ct for your last talent if your comp doesnt have much cleave
smoky topaz
so still crimson tempest on tyrann :O?
soft steppe
just depends on comp
smoky topaz
okay
soft steppe
if im with a mage and any other class with decent cleave ill take bomb
strange python
pb for atal kr temple
soft steppe
like i said, just depends on your group
grim mason
saw somone say underrot earlier
soft steppe
i think at the end of the day its just preference
frank shard
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
arctic vine
if you spec elaborate planning is it worth using a low cp finisher for more EB up time?
ebon prism
Oh no I only have 2x ss.... What's the best option for the 3rd trait for M+? I have like 12x 340 hems
merry sparrow
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
torpid hare
CT only on 2+ targets or
shrewd topaz
Okay gang, so is Assassination still doing well for M+ runs or do I need to move to a hunter?
grim mason
when were they not doing well?
strange python
did they change anything ?
grim mason
3x's SS M+ rapes
shrewd topaz
Cool, thanks. I was worried with the nerf last week that 3x SS might change.
round harbor
anyone have a good subterfuge WA?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
grim mason
delete what you dont need
near current
If you're not running subterfuge and running MA, what do you use vanish for? refresh rupture? TB/envenom spam for mut crits?
arctic vine
what else are you using?
near current
i run 2312221 with LM archive and twist the knife
candid phoenix
guys i m in a very wierd spot atm, and i would love some feedback
terse pawn
refresh rupture with MA
arctic vine
f you spec elaborate planning is it worth using a low cp finisher for more EB up time?
civic palm
MA Vanish should be;
down to 0-2 CP > Vanish > Mut:4/5 > ENV
Get lucky.
arctic vine
EP*
civic palm
You can get lucky and MUT > ENV > MUT > ENV with the final ENV maybe in the window.
Do not use low CP Finishers unless you are refreshing Rupture early due to burst CD windows.
(Rupture DMG does not scale with CP anymore, so you lose no DMG from an early refresh)
candid phoenix
so any1 fancy giving me some feedback with an issue i have with my gear?
civic palm
What issues could there be?
candid phoenix
aight look
check this sim. its with manually placed 4x Array stacks
but Array is giving me crit
cus of the ring i change
so basically the ring sims 40 dps higher, and even with array becoming crit its still sims higher
civic palm
uhhuh
candid phoenix
but should i go for it, or keep the array on haste
civic palm
I doubt you see more than 20dps difference between the two since I am assuming your Crit and Haste weights are close to each other ye?
plain thistle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
civic palm
Thankfully this math is pretty straight forward to do.
candid phoenix
right now haste is like 2.10 / crit 1.96/ agil 1.90
civic palm
Yeah just see the differences in your two sets, and do some simple multiplication.
👍
You could also just SIM the two sets > _>
candid phoenix
i have done that
flint swift
Never played without exsang, but toxic blades is simming higher for me with 2SS/1archive. Is there any drastic difference in playstyle between the two talent specs? Is toxic blades a buff on myself or a debuff on my enemy?
civic palm
Then just check your stats of the two sets in-game and add the array bonuses as you would get them.
The irony with Array is that even if it's buffing something you don't want, it's so fucking much of it that it's probably fine.
candid phoenix
ye
i mean for now i will keep the haste buffed cus it makes the playstyle smoother
20 dps aint worth slowing down the rotation
once i get 1-2 haste itms from the raid that refuse to drop for me
i will get the ring up
TB is a debuff boxy
9 sec debuff
flint swift
Kk thanks.
civic palm
Yeah once you get "enough" haste you end up with like fucking 30% and it's zoomy.
candid phoenix
and i m so glad i finally got lucky in arena
and i got 380 badge
like that trinket is badly broken
civic palm
TBF it doesn't SIM like it's broken, so I dunno about that.
candid phoenix
well it sims 200 dps higher than my 365 dice
and sims are patchwerk
msot bosses in the raid currently have burst phase
with extra dmg
sims cant take that into consideration
1700 agility lined up with vendetta
its kinda lot
quiet ginkgo
is construct overcharger good even if it sims lower than fathoms?
honest needle
whats the best way to parse on vectis. its the only fight i dont parse well on
teal glen
grim valley
guys, is that correct ? i thought that CT was only a dot u had to refresh, not spam. isnt better to fok-CT-fok-rup-fok-rup etc.. ?
hasty coral
is a 340 SS piece, better then a 370 non SS, shit trait piece?
like is there a way to sim that?
terse pawn
lmao that CT spam
terse pawn
wait what boss is this
grim valley
zekvoz
terse pawn
holy shit lmao
exotic glen
you should follow it if all you want to do is cheese ranks
elder prairie
Is it possible he has high crit and several targets?
IE he's dumping 5 cps in one Fok
exotic glen
well zekvoz has tons of adds
trim mantle
SS nerfed? still okay for m+? its simming really low for me rn
grim valley
ye but i meant, the instant dmg CT does, is worth spamming ? isnt better to rup every add and refresh CT when needed ?
terse pawn
that's what i thought
exotic glen
it depends on the amount of adds
grim valley
SS still bis in mm+
exotic glen
obviously
elder prairie
I find myself spamming CT in M+ atleast and it does massive damage
elder prairie
Are those 1 point CTs?
Cause as I said, several Targets and Crit would make those 5 pointers
Or atleast 4 point
terse pawn
i guess it could be
elder prairie
Its very likely thats the case.
grim valley
doesnt matter if its 1 or 5 points CT, since the instant dmg remains the same
elder prairie
Does it?
terse pawn
what
broken fiber
lol
elder prairie
Yeah you had me going "Am I dumb" there for a second
grim valley
elder prairie
But yeah, I'm going to have to assume thats whats happening in that log
grim valley
yes sorry :p didnt sees that "* 2" thing
terse pawn
the damage is multiplied by (n+1) combo points
elder prairie
few targets more than 1 and lucky crits
terse bone
is a 340 archive of the titans better than a 355 shrouded suffocation for st?
elder prairie
Sim it. Also, is it your only SS?
terse bone
nah i would have 2 with the arch
rapid flame
Haven't updated myself the past week, but has shrouded suffocation bug been fixed yet? 😦
broken fiber
no
rapid flame
??
terse bone
does the sim take into account the the trait inside of uldir tho?
rapid flame
You've got to be kidding me
elder prairie
You can tell it to I think?
rapid flame
i mean
it's been a known bug
since mid-beta
Ah, im giving im
smh
Indie company, unlucky
civic palm
It's gigaLowPriority, don't count on it being fixed for a while.
strange python
Don't count on it being fixed ever, actually
timber nexus
So how do we avoid the bug, just 3 garouts with ss and then let them time out before applying others ?
strange python
yes
elder prairie
Yes
exotic glen
wasnt that confirmed to be a dps increase no matter what by mystler as well or was it becuase of the bug?
dire spoke
@terse bone I was asking myself the same question today, not really sure if titans-trait is handled indoor or outdoor by simulations
trim mantle
whats the bug?
civic palm
@exotic glen Pardon?
exotic glen
mystler did some dot sims and found out should always let empowered dots fully run out before reapplying
but maybe it was due to the bug
dire spoke
do you know mize?
exotic glen
yeah now that i think about it, most likely but idk
civic palm
Isn't that old news though, or did Weak assume it in the guide?
terse pawn
it's due to the bug yeah
trim mantle
worth stacking for m+ still?
strange python
yes
trim mantle
appreciate the help, its my 4th toon
gilded mirage
do you guys think it's worth it to swap out 370 DD for 340 SS to get to SSx3? What would be the proper way to figure that out via sims?
for m+
elder prairie
Just on a hunch, i'd say no. But thats just me.
shut robin
I usually choose hectic add cleave and set the reorigination array to 0
gilded mirage
ok, i'll try that...thx guys
midnight flower
You can see some rogue opt for the 340 piece over 370 for the ss trait
But personally I’m not about that life
They the type who sink with the ship
civic palm
SS is probably strong enough.
finite yarrow
does the interaction with envenom and poison application make it 65% chance or 80% for DD
exotic glen
"they the type who sink with the ship"
sure, r1 m+ player is an assa rogue with 2 SS traits
his ship sure is sinking
midnight flower
I’ve ran with people who think that and play outlaw
exotic glen
2 SS traits that are 340*
midnight flower
All the specs are close
If you wanna run 340 over 370 go for it #leet
+3 those 8 get fat loots
patent tartan
what sim settings are you guys using to sim for m+?
midnight flower
Definitely not the st stock sim
patent tartan
why i was asking
midnight flower
Look for the hectic button
patent tartan
still get haste as better stat than mastery
( Pawn: v1: "Slackrogue-Assassination": Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, Agility=3.07, CritRating=2.85, HasteRating=2.85, MasteryRating=2.50, Versatility=2.34, Dps=16.68, OffHandDps=0.83 )
and have 14% haste and 29% mastery
rapid flame
You should aim for crit>mastery in m+ - if running ep,exs & ss that is
crit>=mastery*
tawny violet
when using master assassin what should be the priority from stealth/vanish move
assuming no ss
a 5 combo rupture or just garrote?
rapid flame
Sim yourself & review the html file is really the best answer anyone can give you @tawny violet
patent tartan
i get that @rapid flame but was wondering if there was a why to get the sim to match that
rapid flame
honestly can't tell you, i've just seen better results in m+, stacking crit>=mastery & it's whats being stacked in the high m+ grps aswell for assasition rogues aswell - what traits/talents are you running @patent tartan ?
unkempt ledge
is there a trick to use fan of knives, constantly get like single combo points on trash packs in m+
civic palm
Sacrifice cats.
rapid flame
hm, I really can't tell you why the sim is telling you to weight haste over mastery. I'd aim for enchanting your rings with crit & put a deadly navigation on your OH - and replace the haste gem with a crit gem - this has been a lot more succesfull for me & a lot of high m+ rogues are seeing better results - around 30-34% crit & mastery & 3-5% haste/vers
Masterful navigation on your OH*
cedar kelp
What damage does yall's twist the knife trait say it increases by
Because mine sys 31
says*
patent tartan
does it matter where you have the weapon ench? doesnt you just need haste and crit, or do they need to be on the rigth weapon slot too
winged fox
no, you have same proc chance on both weapons
patent tartan
figured so
inner pulsar
Does anyone know if Azerite gear can drop from the end of match rewards in PvP right now?
patent tartan
i got some 325, cant remember if it was from end or the box you get
inner pulsar
Yeah, that would be an important distinction
strange python
what's a good enery number to pool at for toxic blade? even using it at max energy i feel like i'm not getting enough mutilates / envenoms in
but i feel like that's just a matter of not having enough haste and bleeds / poisons ticking on single target doesn't give much energy
glass tusk
guys how many add in hectic add cleave sim?
inner pulsar
You taking that statement back Twinkletoes?
patent tartan
atm just HecticAddCleave i changed to
patent tartan
was why i started with asking what others used for m+
daring imp
try 40~60s, 3~6 bosses
( depending on your tank or teeming week or not )
patchwerk ( or light movement can be acceptable too )
patent tartan
ok gonna try 60sec and 5
daring imp
that will be only towards m+ trash tho
then you'll have to decide
to go mostly towards trash or boss
but usually
you go spec'ed and geared for trash
patent tartan
yea, that got more "rigth" looking stats
( Pawn: v1: "Slackrogue-Assassination": Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, Agility=5.03, CritRating=4.87, HasteRating=4.02, MasteryRating=5.09, Versatility=4.26, Dps=27.92, OffHandDps=0.70 )
feral spear
Anyone here play sin and sub
wary flax
d
exotic glen
x
wary flax
fuck oops
inner leaf
wait a second I dont see shrouded suffocation on Ass bloodmallet?
lone junco
Looks like we are sinking with the deeps ship.
lone junco
Did you sim it for yourself or are you taking about the dungeon sim?
inner leaf
i looked up trait stacking on blood mallet and SS is not even on that list lol
exotic glen
yeah well im looking at it right now and its there
vagrant marlin
Did they fix SS garrote bug?
exotic glen
no
vagrant marlin
😢
flint jetty
Just nerfed it into the ground is all
lone junco
Live or ptr?
broken fiber
what r these scuffed blood mallet sims
civic palm
lemme get my eyes checked.
yikes
It's actually just not on the stacked list though, haha
exotic glen
the trait stacking list right
civic palm
pastel jackal
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
exotic glen
prove it hurr durr
civic palm
I mean yeah... prove it, not just gonna believe you.
this is better though
Both searches are for the same listing.
👍
exotic glen
im just memeing
civic palm
So is BMallet it seems O _O
exotic glen
its way lower than i expected though
civic palm
Yeah.
civic palm
👍
lone junco
4k ticks 9k crits seems low
lone junco
2
lone junco
2x pre nerf?
civic palm
?