assassination

[sharp schooner]

😂 😂

[stone quartz]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[sand whale]

before anyone says to check the pins I'm going to ask a pinned question

[spark cloud]

aint gotta be dicks about it js

[granite berry]

it might be better to keep yours, but still should sim

i had a 340 BitS one for my sub set and a 370 without it was making me lose dps

[spark cloud]

thank you

[lone remnant]

Thoughts on https://i.imgur.com/SqWMejo.png ??

[thick jacinth]

what you mean thoughts

it sims middle ish of the pack and it's entirely passive

[lone remnant]

ty

[pastel wasp]

gem slot

tho

[velvet latch]

Anyone knows where the fuck you buy the pvp elite enchantment?

[stone quartz]

u don buy it

u get it as soon as u hit 2100

[autumn jacinth]

anybody have any good macros?

i have my standard start attacks

[steel bane]

what's more important envenom or ep uptime?

[severe niche]

just got 385 dagger from mother and 390 pants

praise the lord

[dusk quartz]

!sim

[ancient mist]

👋
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Send !raidbots -h for help!
@dusk quartz

[woeful prawn]

most of my sin specific macros are to reduce the number of buttons. like mut/fan with shift or tb/ex

i cant think why youd need anything more complicated than that

[dusk quartz]

Whats the sim to emulate mythic + trash?

its like 40 seconds, hectic add cleave?

[limber dew]

@severe niche grats mate

[pastel crystal]

is bursting blood potion any good?

[severe niche]

16k club hmu other big ballers https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wArjkVkcjHDuZQ5DBXT4dZ

[pastel wasp]

gimme ur daggers

[bright vessel]

damn :\

im struggling in the 13.6k club 😦

hows the affixes for m+ this week

I have a +9 TolDagor

[wild mural]

Easy af

[bright vessel]

sweet 😄

really hope some loot drops for me any time this week

[sweet quarry]

had a +9 key cache and 1800 rating cache

neither were upgrades

[bright vessel]

yea, it's pretty terrible how the loot is this exp

i dont understand

[sweet quarry]

i just feel like i've been unlucky

the ret i play with

has 395 bis weapon

like

he'll be using that

until the next tier

and i'm using

350/340 daggers

[astral sundial]

just farm more m+? they drop up to 370 IL

[bright vessel]

yea 😦 you and me both man

so unlucky for me

i did like 2 or 3 m+ in a row and got no loot

sorry, i got some artifact power

it's really demotivating 😦

[sweet quarry]

yeah

i did a +9 tol dagor

and first boss

literally just despawned

at 4% health

it was like

10 yards from where it spawns

and it just

dissapeared

[bright vessel]

ahahah rip

[sweet quarry]

we almost cleared it

with a

9k single target mage

almost +1d it *

[bright vessel]

damn nice

this week affixes?

[sweet quarry]

last week

[bright vessel]

yea, TD might be tough this week because of tyrannical

[sweet quarry]

yeah

last 2 bosses

are annoying without it

let alone with it

[ruby idol]

Rogue makes last boss much easier

[sweet quarry]

shadow stepping

[ruby idol]

You soak 1st 3rd and 4th deadeye

[sweet quarry]

yeah

also

not having to walk

for repositioning

a few times through the fight

[ruby idol]

It's more so making it so other dont have to reposition after deadeye because you can take 3 of the 4-5 that go out that's really useful

And if a 6th comes you have evasion back for it

[spice surge]

Tfw rogues are budget DHs for once and not the other way

As DHs can soak every shot

[ruby idol]

I'll take shroud over that in every single key

[sweet quarry]

yeah

[spice surge]

ofc

[bright vessel]

what is keeping you guys motivated?

I'm really losing motivation to keep pushing on my rogue 😦

[ruby idol]

uh

keys are fun

[sweet quarry]

rogue is more fun then my other 120s

and I also enjoy pvp more then pvp

fuck

pvp more then pve

and rogue is stronger then my alts in both

wanted to try a healer

but i've literally never healed before

[lyric pond]

i am actually trying to keep myself motivated as well @bright vessel seeing others getting nerfed but other traits buffed is definitely taking a hit on my rogue motivation bar though

[sweet quarry]

rogue is still really strong

compared to other classes

in both pvp and pve

moreso in pvp

wouldnt be surprised if sin gets nerfed though tbh

[lyric pond]

i dunno man, im not so sure if what i think about DH/Warrs is right or whatever u wanna call it but it only takes them a button to be top overall

im probably just salty but i realy dont know

[sweet quarry]

arms is a more complex than dh imo

fury is actually more difficult then arms

[cunning needle]

@ruby idol how do you soak the 3rd and 4th deadeye?

in TD?

[sweet quarry]

im assuming cheat death for one

could be wrong

tank first one

cheat death next

evasion last

[limpid cedar]

!wq

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[bright vessel]

yea i dunno, maybe i should try a diff class or somethin

any suggestions? hunters/mages ok?

[static tapir]

Dont try pala

[sweet quarry]

dont try pala?

[bright vessel]

yea im not going to lol

[sweet quarry]

ret is really strong

[static tapir]

Boring af

[sweet quarry]

yeah

[bright vessel]

snooze town

[sweet quarry]

i guess

[static tapir]

Ret just strong in arena

[sweet quarry]

they're good dps as well

[arctic crow]

huh sims really dont want me to stack archive traits

[static tapir]

4 Button smash retri

Click what blinks

[sweet quarry]

yeah

alot of difference between a good ret/bad ret

[wise whale]

@arctic crow reorganization array does not stack

[bright vessel]

so besides ret, are hunters also 3 button wonders?

[sweet quarry]

uhh

they're not overly compleex

[bright vessel]

I also have a mage, warrior, hunter, priest at 110

[sweet quarry]

complex*

mage is probably the most complex imo

they seem to be wanting to make hunters/warriors beginner classes tbh

[vestal abyss]

fire is fun as fuck

[sweet quarry]

yeah

fire is alot more fun then frost

but its worse

for everything

:\

[vestal abyss]

True

[sweet quarry]

its sad

cuz if fire was good

i would level my mage

not that fire is bad

but its just

theres no reason to play it

compared to frost

i guess the burst requires less setup

but thats all i canr eally thing of

[vestal abyss]

The only classes ive never played are DH, Monk and pala

well with the speed at whihc they push changes nowadays anything can happen

[sweet quarry]

yeah

[vestal abyss]

so i might just stand by stuff

put stuff on stand-by*

[sweet quarry]

yeah

make some minor progress on alts

never get fully cucked by nerfs

and meta shifts

theres no way dk stays bottom tier the whole xpac

so hopefully its worth playing eventually

[vestal abyss]

Frost is actually topping warcraftlogs in uldir atm

In pvp ye

[sweet quarry]

dks are literally the worst pvp class atm

[strange python]

as rogue in which group u should be on Mother? Last one for better dps?

[astral sundial]

it just depends on your raid setup - I mean, at the end it comes down to just what your raid leader decideds so.

[astral hound]

Whoever gets sent earlier will parse lower, the fight is dumb

If u tryna parse max, u wanna be literally last

Insane downtime in the next room

[strange python]

bcs i want kill myself when im in first groups ...i just watching on blobs as assa

[astral hound]

But, someone's gotta be sent, rogues have decent interrupts :/

[strange python]

i heard that casters have little problem with killing blobs? they cant cast or something like that?

[dark token]

dont let your raid send u first if you play sin

if they insist, switch to outlaw

outlaw is actually top in that fight if you get sent early

[patent topaz]

idk why but I was 3rd on dps as outlaw on our first kill

which was better than expected

[pseudo finch]

tbh getting sent first and then doing the strat where the 1st 3 grp go kinda insta after the first fire -.-

then u kil 173561753 adds and sit afk for 2 mins

-.-

[ebon prism]

is 3x archive of the titans the best? or only when it's +10 array

[harsh glacier]

Do I use Crimson Tempest on ST?

or is Envenom bettter?

[pseudo finch]

Never use CT on single target

@ebon prism simming and checking Herodamage/Boodmallet will give you best answers

[harsh glacier]

Are you guys preferring CT or PB in M+?

[supple wolf]

What do you think

[harsh glacier]

honestly no idea

PB is easier

[supple wolf]

Then take the 3rd one that you didn't mention

[drifting stag]

crimson tempest>

[supple wolf]

Generic questions are just boring

Take hidden blade

[harsh glacier]

really?

[ebon prism]

no

[supple wolf]

If you can't decide between pb and CT, then take hidden blade

[chilly obsidian]

During tyrannical I like poison bomb during fortified I like CT

[supple wolf]

Live life on the edge

[chilly obsidian]

Also depends on home much trash will be in the dungeon I guess

[drifting stag]

crimson tempest does incredible damage at even 3 targets

[harsh glacier]

Thanks Garrett

[chilly obsidian]

Yeah tru

[pliant wing]

Hey guys, what do u do on open ? Gar gar rupt or gar rupt gar ? Logs of current best rogue do gar gar rupt but sim say gar rupt gar ?

[chilly obsidian]

Just take 3 ss to m+ and afk while topping charts still np

[harsh glacier]

ss?

oh

that got nerfed I thought

[drifting stag]

in m+ i live garrote x3, ct, fan, rupture, fan, rupteure, fan rupture then maintain dots

[chilly obsidian]

Still op in m+ just not every situation

Single target there are better options to stack

[harsh glacier]

I only really have Scented Blood atm

[drifting stag]

ss is strong still in m+ cause you can stealth between packs

but 2x ss and 1x scented blood is good too on fort

[chrome ledge]

Should i also use galecallers for m+?

[fallow estuary]

let's GO EU

open your chests

[drifting stag]

galecallers is a meh from me

[pliant wing]

I dnt see any pins bout GRG or GGR ? or am i blind ?

[cold inlet]

ggr for bigger burst Exsang grg for more energy regen faster

[chilly obsidian]

Galecallers is dope when you can stand still lol

[ebon prism]

what are bis trinkets for m+?

[pliant wing]

Why best rogue on wlogs use ggr with PB so ? i dnt get it

[cold inlet]

To have longer bleeds so when they use TB they can squeeze more envenoms before having to reapply

[pliant wing]

Okay, is it better ? sims say GRG x)

[cold inlet]

honestly probably a pointless difference in terms of dps

For me personally I dont use PB

[pliant wing]

Yea probably, but u do only 1 envenom with GRG on TB thats true

[cold inlet]

In a tyranical boss it does like 50k

Rather spec CT and be useful on M+ trash

In raids PB is fine I guess

Also dont find TB worth it right now due to low mastery

[ebon prism]

when simming talents and stat weights, do i use hectic add cleave option?

[cold inlet]

I wouldnt because hectic will reduce your dps by a ton

[pliant wing]

ye TB is pretty low, except when u proc on add pop

[ebon prism]

i want to run assassination for m+ so i want to figure out my stat weights and optimal talents

[drifting stag]

i use patchwerk and then 3-10 targets

[cold inlet]

TB vs Exsang feels the same dps wise single target, but Exsang feels better

@ebon prism I used 3x SS until today now I run 2x SS 1x Scent of Blood talents is cookie cutter except Exsang and CT

Stat weights are a sim your toon but generall haste crit and mastery are all close once you hit 17-20% haste

[gaunt isle]

Anybody jelly?

[ebon prism]

i have 10% haste cuz i swap with sub lol

[cold inlet]

RIP

Just to give you an idea I am at 19% haste, 21% crit 30% mastery 4% vers

[dark token]

no overwhelming power 0/10

[cold inlet]

In M+ I can do 12-13k ST and 25k aoe

[ebon prism]

aoe being 3+ targets

or 5+?

[drifting stag]

does anyone know if you can set an order for your debuffs on an enemy nameplate using elvui?

[cold inlet]

3+ use CT

[ebon prism]

no i mean can u hit 25k aoe on 3 targets? or u need 5+?

[cold inlet]

5+ can do it easy

3 targets I just cleave and can usually hit 17k due to bleeds and venomous wounds

[barren forge]

o/ @gaunt isle

[cold inlet]

Thats why I like Sang over TB, its useful on trash

[gaunt isle]

good traits? @barren forge

[barren forge]

DD

[drifting stag]

do you ever envenom on aoe?

[cold inlet]

@drifting stag tough one honestly

[ebon prism]

i think ill just run 3x SS with lower ilvl armors :/

[cold inlet]

Experimenting with CT spam in thicker packs

[gaunt isle]

on fortified weeks id prioritize getting up as many ruptures as possible tbh, on tyrannical tho, might just be better going envenom with a good grp @drifting stag

[cold inlet]

I will use Envenom when something is about to die with Rup on it though for the energy

[modest zodiac]

Any trinket you recommend?

[dire pebble]

just leveled my rogue to be my main alt, is it still work picking up a fathoms?

[modest zodiac]

To boost

[gaunt isle]

Fathoms is still extremely strong @dire pebble

for all specs

[cold meteor]

Nice 380 dagger from M+ cache

[drifting stag]

cause at like 3-4 targets there comes a time where i CT for damage and it still has plenty of time left on it

[cold meteor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oUM3ApwoagSBxFkDv814Vc

[dire pebble]

so worth?

[cold inlet]

My CT does about 3k crits on intial use

With a big enough group that is possibly worth it to spam if you have enough bleeds up

[harsh glacier]

kinda feels like poison bomb is better

[ebon prism]

whats the other trait combo that you mentioned besides 3x SS? you said 2x SS and something?

[gaunt isle]

Yeah worth for sure, some people still use it above 370 trinkets @dire pebble

[harsh glacier]

maybe not for big groups with low health, but for m+ I'm kinda feeling PB > CT

[cold inlet]

Scent of Blood

[ebon prism]

and thats supposed to be better than 3x SS?

[dire pebble]

tyty @gaunt isle

[cold inlet]

I swapped because I went from 325 to 370 shoulders

[gaunt isle]

no worries

[cold inlet]

PB sucks for trash though

[ebon prism]

oh but if ilvls are equal, then 3x SS is still bis for m+?

[harsh glacier]

not really, if the trash isnt spread PB probly does more damage

[modest zodiac]

There is no world boss in arathi today?

[cold inlet]

@ebon prism If you are Sang 100% yes

If TB probably but not sure

@harsh glacier I can assure you it wont

CT is always #1 on trash for me

[ebon prism]

ty

[drifting stag]

yea ct does stupid damage for me too

[fallow estuary]

ct is strong on forified teeming

sucks on tyranical+noteeming - let's be honest here

[cold inlet]

I still get decent numbers even this week

[cold inlet]

My thing about PB is it does almost no damage on boss fights

[harsh glacier]

DAMN NICE

[cold meteor]

[harsh glacier]

*caps

PB is optimal for boss fights?

[cold meteor]

i'm so jealous

[harsh glacier]

isnt it the raiding talent?

[modest zodiac]

Wait so last week's world boss dropped 370 this week 355? SLOWCLAP

[cold inlet]

General rule of thumb is PB for ST

[ebon prism]

world boss dropped 355. arathi world boss dropped 370

right?

[cold inlet]

I am looking over my logs for AD 8 and it did 62k dmg

[split veldt]

double dose stacks right?

[cold inlet]

Dont get me wrong its free damage but CT is still useful on higher M+ even without teeming fort

Yes it does

I feel DD is going to be insanely good when we can get enough mastery

[harsh glacier]

just seems that CT uses a GCD and PB doesnt, and Im not seeing a huge difference in damage except on huge packs

[drifting stag]

https://gyazo.com/1008582b2666bb05ef2f7c444fd6dc16 this is my damage on the 4 target dummies after 30 seconds

[strange summit]

those are some small garrotes :<

or are you playing without ss?

[cold inlet]

For ST PB is better

[drifting stag]

i have 2 ss on

[cold inlet]

But over the course of a dungeon I dont see PB making up for it when trash is moving and the boss damage is a small bonus

[split veldt]

so 2x DD and 1x raid piece ?

[drifting stag]

@harsh glacier do you find yourself energy starving with CT?

[harsh glacier]

Yup

[cold inlet]

@split veldt In raids raid traits are probably bis due to the stacking

[drifting stag]

you need to fan rupture to get energy coming back

[harsh glacier]

Yeah assumed so

[drifting stag]

like 1 combo point rpture

[cold inlet]

I dont get starved unless I cant stealth

[drifting stag]

the ct rotation flows very smoothly

[harsh glacier]

if there's no point using CT on bosses though it seems like such a wasted talent

especially on tyrannical week

[pastel wasp]

G g g ct rotation?

[harsh glacier]

like PB has value on tash and bosses

so would've thought it would outvalue CT overall

[modest zodiac]

WIll wait for a dread medallion

[fallow estuary]

we tested CT vs PB in 2nd week (tyranical/skittish/bursting)

[modest zodiac]

It's weird that pvp vers trinket sims higher than crit

[fallow estuary]

and in +14's CT felt very very weak

[cold inlet]

wouldnt 14s be the same as 6s + fort

[fallow estuary]

so idk how high you can push this weak with decent gear but at the time what was considerd high CT felt garbage

Nah

[torpid sluice]

https://gyazo.com/74c289447d0b59f66a1c393c7fb97afb
Fuck

[cold inlet]

Is fort just 30% hp

[drifting stag]

ive never seen the rank 1 or the rank 3 rogue use anything but ct

[rose dove]

30% hp 20% dmg rihgt?

[modest zodiac]

ct?

[fallow estuary]

"the rank 1 or the rank 3 rogue"

[drifting stag]

cant wait for this

?

[fallow estuary]

I wouldn't give to much about what a single high player does tbh

[cold inlet]

At some point even with Tyrannical trash hp will be high enough

[dry thicket]

why would CT be weak at 14?

[cold inlet]

Without CT I might as well roll another spec

[drifting stag]

idk cause my ct does more damage over 30 seconds than posion bomb does over a 5 minute boss fight

[cold inlet]

Aoe blows without it

[harsh glacier]

On high hp targets just rupture and garrotte do tons of dps

[fallow estuary]

Ofcourse CT does more damage

Because you invest CP and Energy into it

[drifting stag]

and every high rated rogue takes ct

[cold inlet]

@drifting stag exactly what I am seeing

[harsh glacier]

my aoe is only bad when targets die too quickly

[fallow estuary]

"every high rated rogue"

thats a dumb statement

[drifting stag]

you dont think i should follow the trends of people better than me

[ripe geyser]

https://gyazo.com/942c3903ee68afdf9c71bf36ba6e1cc9

[fallow estuary]

when i cleared SF +15 i was the ranke d 3 rogue and both me and my friend had psn bomb x)

[ripe geyser]

crying in assa rogue

[harsh glacier]

I bet they all use PB this week with tyrannical

[ruby idol]

I'm 10th rogue in the us and I /roll 3 before every key this week to decide my lvl 100 talent cause they all feel garbage. So I feel you Easy

[fallow estuary]

It just feels like ppl stopped thinking for themself and just blindly follow something if they saw a streamer do it

[ruby idol]

I honestly think hb is sleeper strong in a lot of keys this week

[cold inlet]

I dont have time to watch streamers

[fallow estuary]

You can make HB work

[ruby idol]

Siege in particular it felt good, and depending on how you pull motherlode it seems decent there too

[cunning needle]

HB -> spam tab rupture?

[cold inlet]

I get the logic CT aoe PB ST but the numbers dont lie. Over 5min PB does no damage so I feel having an extra push in aoe saves more time

[harsh glacier]

HB and CT have 0 value ST though

PB literally the only one thats good for aoe and st

[ruby idol]

HB has minimal value but still value

[devout jolt]

FUCKING KILL ME PLEASE

[cold inlet]

PB loses value when the tank moves mobs

[torpid sluice]

Had that one last week @devout jolt ;'D

[ruby idol]

And I'm not here to argue you shouldn't run ct

Its absolutely the default pick

[valid moss]

https://gyazo.com/fcb2c8ae438f8e31f21e50190fd644ad pog?

[devout jolt]

already have Gale callers and Dead Eye

oh you prick Ghosudaz

[cold inlet]

M+ is all about time saved

[valid moss]

thank you Ion <3

[cold inlet]

It just seems like despite the obvious intent of the 2 skills in question, PBs damage is lacking on bosses

And if the tank has to kite at all CTs value goes way up

[drifting stag]

what do i do with my combo points if i run pb aoe @fallow estuary

[fallow estuary]

You rupture everytarget and use envenom after you did

[ruby idol]

You rupture and envenom what do you mean

[drifting stag]

thats a dumb question

[cold inlet]

So the question becomes does more trash dps reduce clear time enough to offset PB boss damage where it shines the most

[fallow estuary]

i pulled about 19-20k overall dps in the 2nd week with PB

and 16-17k with CT

we tested 4 dungeons 14+ with it

in the 3rd week

[ruby idol]

I think a lot of people just look at their overall damage

[fallow estuary]

(fortified)

[cold inlet]

how are you only doing 17k with ct

[fallow estuary]

and teeming

[ruby idol]

And see ct > pb

And that's the end of their thought process

[fallow estuary]

i did about 21k with CT

Its like they only started playing last week and thought "oh boy CT is so strong"

Yea

it is

on fortified and teeming its amazing

[cold inlet]

teeming sure

[fallow estuary]

but it looses SO much value without those two

[dark token]

heres my strat

[fallow estuary]

you can still take it

[dark token]

fortified i do spinny blood

tyrannical i drop poison stuff

[fallow estuary]

it's not much of a lose between PB and CT even this week

but don't treat it like its far superior

[glad oxide]

J

[fallow estuary]

You can't evaluate the two just looking "oh boy xDD mmy CT did so much more dmg then PB XDD"

Because you invest resources into CT

[ruby idol]

Well ya that was my point

[fallow estuary]

i know m8

[cold inlet]

The one thing I dont get

[ruby idol]

Ct = cps not spent on rupture which = less energy which = less fok which = less poison dmg

[cold inlet]

Is 14s should have the same trash effect that a lower fort does

The argument is more hp means CT has more value

along with adds

[fallow estuary]

But with even longer Boss fights in which CT will have exactly 0 value - and less trash

it's all about the overall DPS in dungeons

not about just trash dmg

or just boss dmg

[cold inlet]

You are right

But PB is at best 500 dps

[ruby idol]

The higher you go the more spooky certain mobs become tho, which makes ct just pad dmg in a lot of cases

[cold inlet]

VS the 4k trash dps I lose every pull

[fallow estuary]

And if CT pulls less numbers in a dungeon

AND gives you less prio dmg in infested

you can't argue that CT is the by far superior talent on tyranical non teeming

its just dumb

anyway - my cats need to go to the doctor

l8ers.

[ruby idol]

Like let's take motherlode for example. Packs right after first boss. You pull 4 packs there and cc the infest

[pastel wasp]

Ewww he’s a cat person

[cold inlet]

Isnt that why we are discussing it

[ruby idol]

Theres like 4 earthshapers that matter and the rest is mine rats that who cares

[exotic abyss]

Do u g g g rupt exs fok fok fok ct? Or g g g ct exs?

[ruby idol]

All that ct dmg on the rats is better invested in ruptures and envenoms on earthshapers

Even if it's less overall dmg

[woeful prawn]

if there were like 5-10 adds per pull CT might be ok. but thats rarely the case, it feels pretty bad most of the time

[cold inlet]

Do you use Sang or TB

In that ML scenario

[ruby idol]

I run exang with 3xss in everything as of now

[unborn plume]

Anyone knows if Laser Matrix only is BiS in raid?

[cold inlet]

Ok so we agree with Exsang

Priority add dmg

[pastel wasp]

Exang might not be that good with low haste

FYI

[ruby idol]

Exangs synergy with ct is meh imo. It's there for energy regen after your first rupture

[cold inlet]

I have almost 20% I think thats fine

[pastel wasp]

Gimme some

😦

[cold inlet]

I rarely use Exsang for CT

[ruby idol]

I run 12% and I think even that is maybe too high in keys

[cold inlet]

If it happens cool

[ruby idol]

We agree there then

[modest zodiac]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=158163&ilvl=340
what's the highest possible ilvl ?

[exotic abyss]

Can master poisoner and double dose be a thing?

[cold inlet]

At some point in raids ST it will be

[barren forge]

is this working as intended? 2 stacks with 1 trait?

[ruby idol]

Anyways the point of me chiming in here was to encourage people to experiment with PB and HB in their keys

[cold inlet]

Mut should use both because it attacks with 2 weapons

[barren forge]

ah makes sense

[ruby idol]

Because I dont think the 100 talent choice puzzle is fully solved yet

Especially tyrannical weeks

[cold inlet]

I wouldnt know what to spec for M+ stats wise if haste needs to be lower that 14%

[ruby idol]

What do you mean?

[cold inlet]

Like you said earlier your haste might be too high

So what stat would you go for

[ruby idol]

I prioritize crit and value haste and mastery pretty closely after that

[cold inlet]

I guess crit helps fok a lot

At that point though

Why not just go sub

[barren forge]

@cold inlet oh and now its not using both

[ruby idol]

What? Crit is clearly sins bis m+ stat

[abstract vigil]

so im Outlaw and just got into the talk here with the haste. and i was thinking about trying some outlaw on the site. just wanted to hear why you would not go higher then 14% haste?

[ruby idol]

I'm not saying I wouldn't go higher

[abstract vigil]

some assa´

[strange python]

What do you guys use to Sim for M+ weights?

[ruby idol]

I'm saying I run 12% rn in keys but often I feel myself wanting more crit

[strange python]

Hectic Add cleave?

[ruby idol]

Thus maybe my haste being too high

[cold inlet]

Whats your crit at

[barren forge]

@strange python 5 bosses patchwerk 20-40 sec

[ruby idol]

M+ is so much feelycraft that it's hard for me to give you like a proper answer

I think I sit at 27 or 29%. I'm on phone rn so..

[cold inlet]

Fuck

I havent even seen enough crit/x to get above 23 let alone make it to 37

[strange python]

Cheers @barren forge

[cold inlet]

27*

Doesnt all that crit feel bad for bosses though with no haste

[ruby idol]

Nah I dont often feel starved

Crits not even bad st its just not haste

[cold inlet]

I guess if mut crits 10% more than mine you get 4 cp more often

[ruby idol]

I was running like 30% crit and 8% haste at one point, and that did feel off. I swapped a ring out to get my current stats

Like as long as you have enough haste for 100% ep uptime during your ss garrotes

Who cares

[cold inlet]

I wont lie I hate EP

Such a dumb talent

I use it but maintaining a 4s buff is cancer

[ruby idol]

You just have to know when to give a shit about it and when not to

[spice nymph]

Well its an easy way to tell if someone understands the spec or not imo besides it being good

[ruby idol]

You just run 3x ss in keys and only stress it during big garrotes

[echo hound]

Is raidbots even updated? I sim almost 400 dps lower if i change blightborne infusion for Poisoned Wire. Seems off

[ruby idol]

Poison wire isnt gonna be good

[echo hound]

yeh that seems to be the case

So its still just 1 Uldir trait, 1 SS and on DD for optimal output more or less?

[ruby idol]

In raid? Sure that's fine

I dont have a big dd piece so I dont run it

[echo hound]

Same here. 1 SS, 1 Matrix and 1 Blightborne atm

[small island]

Got 385 chest with Fan of Blades and ruinous bolt, fuck blizzard

[round wadi]

I Sim better with 2 archive then with 1 archive and 1 ss

[harsh glacier]

Just did a +7 Underrot, PB did 3% of my damage overall

[round wadi]

Is it wrong or there is some reason?

[harsh glacier]

anyone know how much CT does for their overall generally?

[modern kettle]

hi guys, does shouded soffocation is still good now? and is it worth it to stack more than one?

[harsh glacier]

Im fairly undergeared too, only around 350 (rog is 5 days old lol)

[echo hound]

Currently Assas sims roughly 200 DPS higher for me on Patchwerk sim. Guessing Assas is the way to go atm then, since Assass will be better on any pull apart from 5+ packs for Sub Shuriken combo right?

[ruby idol]

3xss is still very good in m+. Raid I wouldn't run more than 1 depending on what else you have on other pieces

[harsh glacier]

reckon CT would do more or less than 3%?

[drifting stag]

if u scroll up there was a big conversation about ct vs pb

[cunning needle]

oh boy here we go again

[drifting stag]

lol

[ruby idol]

We just talked about it. Ct is more dmg than pb on your dmg meter

[harsh glacier]

just curious as to anyone has overall logs so I can see what the overall % CT did was

[cold inlet]

CT will be top 3 for sure

[modern kettle]

@ruby idol thanks u m8!

[cold inlet]

i dont even have to run a dungeon to know that

[round wadi]

Does more dmg but u use cp for it so u lose other dmgs

[echo hound]

Would you still run CT without Exsang?

[drifting stag]

pretty much do you wanna use cp for envenom or do you want to use cp for ct

[harsh glacier]

Ah yeah Reins thats true

might be hard to calculate there

[ruby idol]

Ct exsang synergy is mostly nonexistent. More important to exsang good rupture/garrotes

[harsh glacier]

so PB is a free 3% damage for me, but CT is more active and reduces other skills.. hm

[cold inlet]

Honestly no priority CT priority Envenom

[ruby idol]

If you catch a ct with your exsang then great

[echo hound]

Also CT would be considerably more reliable

[round wadi]

But I want to know if u think I should run double archive or 1 archive and 1 ss even tho it Sim lower

[cold inlet]

In what content

[round wadi]

Raid

[cold inlet]

Probably the uldir traits since they get bonuses in uldir

[round wadi]

Yea only 1 tho

[cold inlet]

I dont fully trust bloodmallet but it has all the uldir traits like 2-3xs higher than any other trait

[ruby idol]

Just run what sims best for raid. The only reason ss is hard to sim for m+ is because of how frequent we get restealths which increases the value of ss

[round wadi]

I don't know If I look at archive without array stacks it sucks even in bloodmallet

[shut cape]

^

[ruby idol]

Which us where you'll see arguements for ss, in m+

[cold inlet]

In raid I suspect DD will be the best non uldir trait

[shut cape]

I got a 385 SS piece from chest

[round wadi]

Yea but i have it only 340

[cold inlet]

I feel your pain

[cunning needle]

do you run 3x ss dad?

[cold inlet]

AZ pieces werent thought through

[ruby idol]

Ya

[high siren]

is this viable to mm+ without SS ?

[cunning needle]

kk

[high siren]

is it*

[ruby idol]

Sure, a lot of traits can be good

I just run 3xSS. Doesnt mean other arent viable

[high siren]

do you still do ok on bosses ?

[silk jolt]

simming for 14k at 368 ilvl

should be on more

[ruby idol]

Uh yes shaylen

[glad umbra]

@silk jolt that really depends on your daggers tho. They make a big difference on the Sims.

[high siren]

daggers and traits

[quasi iris]

Was anything hot fixed over night for sin?

Something feels off

[hazy iron]

sharpened blades nerf

else you;re just paranoid 😛

[storm lily]

How do I SIM M+ with Raidbots? Patchwerk - 3 Bosses - 1 Min ? Uldir I just take 1 Boss 5 Minutes

[quasi iris]

Think im paranoid lmfao just did a normal mythic and my damage was really low even though I just got two 370 daggers lastnight in raid

[pine prism]

Did you have poisons up? :<

hee hee

[hot flume]

Just simmed myself this morning, my highest is 1double dose, 1Dagger, and 1*Blightborne infusion

It seemend weird, but then I digged and I noticed there are 3* Overwhelming power for the middle ring

So now the middle ring is getting more important than the outer one ?

[signal summit]

Thats large

Not more important

But the differense in ur middle rings are stronger than ur other rings Thats Why it sims more

Nothing special

[storm lily]

How do I SIM M+ with Raidbots? Patchwerk - 3 Bosses - 1 Min ? Uldir I just take 1 Boss 5 Minutes. Could you please help me? 😃

[hot flume]

Yeah it seemed that stacking Mid ring was more optimal than stacking DD on the outer ring

[ebon garden]

355 SoB or 340 SS for m+?

[ruby idol]

Ss

[hot flume]

This might change if I finally drop 1 fucking raid azerite armor

[nimble tartan]

@storm lily just do like 5 bosses patchwerk 40 secs

[hot flume]

Been cleaning HM every week, not a single archive or laser yet...

[storm lily]

@nimble tartan Okay thank you 😃

[vestal abyss]

@hot flume You should clear Uldir, not Highmaul

[cunning needle]

lol

and i've been having the same problem as well kixal. only azerite pieces ive gotten are from mythic

though i did get a +10SS chest

i wonder if it's gonna be worth replacing a 340 ss helm with a 385 sb helm

[cold meteor]

for the extra agi probably yes

but you should

[cunning needle]

yep

when i get home

[cold meteor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qmmxqrJnk3WAQpMqn1p4Z3

[hot flume]

@vestal abyss Wish you were right 😢

[cunning needle]

i reckon 3x ss will still be better for m+ though

rather than 2x ss and 1x sb

[torpid crag]

aight bois opening my chest now lets see what kind of BS i get

[cunning needle]

glhf

[broken canyon]

Does anyone know what dungeon drops the best dagger

[hot flume]

@vestal abyss got so lucky on my feral beginning of the Xpax, but my rogue is crying for some decent items

[cold meteor]

MOTHER one is the best

[torpid crag]

yikes.....

[cold meteor]

Haste Mastery 😮

[broken canyon]

yeah but I need something I can farm towards @cold meteor do you know which of the dungeon ones I should be going for?

[torpid crag]

wait its apprently a upgrade

[cold meteor]

Tol Dagor one I think

[pine prism]

Tol Dagor for sure

[broken canyon]

Cool

[pine prism]

I'll pray for you, im 20 7

7+ runs in, still rocking my 340 daggors

Tol-no-daggor

[torpid crag]

i got a 365 TD dagger but still a shitty 345 from WQ

[nimble tartan]

witness me https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cWE54FcmRRkvMTjycxAZ2a

[pine prism]

390 jar

jeez

[nimble tartan]

im not gonna lie sharpened blades kinda fun to use i like pressin a button

[cold meteor]

Got a 380 dagger in the chest

[pine prism]

Gz

[cold meteor]

crit versa

[pine prism]

I'll take it of ur hands np

[torpid crag]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iNEoPJr9yAwyEyxa7rVESf

FeelsWeirdMan

[pine prism]

Crimson Tempest for ST?

:<

[torpid crag]

nah thats m+

[terse viper]

you simmed ST tho

[pine prism]

1 target though

[torpid crag]

NotLikeThis

[cold meteor]

I would go for CT, even in Tyrannical

[terse viper]

I'd say it depends on your dps friends

[pine prism]

^

[terse viper]

sometimes you need more ST

[cold meteor]

Tyra -> easier trash -> bigger pull -> CT

[terse viper]

-> get fatty outdpsd by frost mage and fury warrior anyways

[pine prism]

where's ur dh

[terse viper]

-> get shit on by bosses

[cold meteor]

PB is like 450 dps on boss

[pine prism]

-> spend 2 hours in Temple on Tyr

[cold meteor]

when you get lucky

[terse viper]

I'm not trying to say that you're wrong

[vestal abyss]

its a little lame that our highest tier talents are so underwhelming

[terse viper]

CT is better in m+ every week in general

I'm just saying that it depends sometimes

sometimes I get to go full single target when I play on my feral druid

and that's the only time I get to play m+ on that character

I don't think CT is underwhelming at all tbh

having an aoe spender is nice

[tropic pike]

Who is highest sin dps atm

Sim* and sin

[pine prism]

I personaly still don't understand what ur trying to say with that correction 🤔

[torpid crag]

I should reroll to DH, has way more fking luck with items

[tender walrus]

What are the ideal azerite traits you guys are looking for rn?

[pine prism]

@tender walrus https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=azerite_traits&type=trait_stacking&tier=3

Atm im running double matrix archive, simmed higher for me until yesterday (havent simmed new patch)

[tender walrus]

Oh wow ss is THAT trash?

So we re not even running one for the cp

[pine prism]

Its still okay in some situations afaik

depends mate, the only real answer you'll get it when you

is*

[torpid crag]

well maybe I drop mythic daggers on mother today

[tender walrus]

Yep just trying to figure out what are the BiS

[cunning needle]

i think its the raid azerite + 1x dd

[torpid crag]

I still have a SS trait but thats just cause I don't have 3 dd

[cunning needle]

or 2xdd

[tender walrus]

So dd is better than ss now

Cool

[cunning needle]

looks like it

[brisk sedge]

does anyone have an idea of if Dread Gladiator's Insignia is any good and where it comprares on the scale on herodamage?

[tender walrus]

And are u guys still using exsg without ss traits?

[dark token]

@nimble tartan https://i.imgur.com/kkET4pl.png

screw ur azerite

[hot flume]

@tender walrus TB sims higher for me

[stone quartz]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[static tapir]

For me too with and without ss traits

[nimble tartan]

hehehe

[naive willow]

should i go for 3 SS or is there a better combination? i'm mostly doing m+ and some low rated pvp

[dark token]

3ss if equal ivl to everything else if probably your best bet

[onyx wind]

tfw downgrading 3 ilvl for sockets

[unkempt karma]

I sim swirl+dd at 340. And 370 pw

3x dd at 340 is lower.
Guess secondary traits matter

[onyx wind]

mostly ilvl do now

[west gate]

😦 got 385 chest with fan of knives and Ruinous Bolt : (

Its sims bad and its pull everything in dungeon

[strange python]

Do i need 3xDD to weigh up the loss of 3xSS?

I got a 385 belt which wad a downgrade. Haha

Then got my first raid azerite piece from normal. 15 item level 601 dps increase.

Finally out dpsing my sim since the ss balance

[white moss]

surely ss is still more important than dd in the majority of uldir since there are so many fights where u can vanish garrote adds ?

[strange python]

@white moss it will taper off rapidly. I feel it will end up archive dose and something else. The balance has drastically weakened them. And with all the continued changes its not scaling well at all and will continue to taper off during each new raid tier (imo)

[dark token]

idk man

https://i.imgur.com/0im52Yw.png

thats at 385 ilvl

id rather have SS seeing as if you add targets it increases value

[white moss]

it's so hard to tell, atm my shroud 370 sims 200 less than my lazer matrix 370 chest but I feel like a lot of fights the shroud will pull ahead, maybe on zul/mythrax/ghuun anyway

[thorny vector]

hey hey

[strange python]

@white moss it will pull ahead on some fights no doubt. Hence its still king in m+

[thorny vector]

SB on "cd" as sin?

[strange python]

But by reducing the stacking and finding 385 shroud pieces is tough

It will become more viable to drop them out

@thorny vector sharpened blade? Its not worth running now. How many you got ?

[thorny vector]

i mean it still sims best for me

[pseudo void]

if i got chest from uldir, its better to use Archive of the Titans than SS now ? since its my only piece with booth traits.
mainly for m+, but also for normals / herpoic raids soon

[thorny vector]

i have 1

its a 385 piece

[strange python]

@pseudo void archive is VERY good.

[pseudo void]

@strange python it is good for booth - m+ and uldir ?

[strange python]

@thorny vector use it on cd unless vendetta is coming up in 3-4 seconds.(i believe) or on vanish with MA talent

[brisk forge]

Uldir

[fiery cradle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hZ28DC8pjvCxFJ191GUKtf

:thonking:

[strange python]

@pseudo void no it doesn't work in m+

3 x ss will be stronger

[pseudo void]

so outside of uldir its totally worth 0 ?

[wide delta]

+1

[brisk forge]

Yes

[strange python]

@fiery cradle you sim 1k above me with 3 more item level. Nice optimisation. What az pieces you running

[wide delta]

u actually wanna have 3xSS in m+

[pseudo void]

its my only piece with SS and Archive :/ uess i need ot step up on farming that champions rep

[small island]

How much haste do u guys have? Haste is now my worst stat. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9m167FXTw17kJtML387BaS

[strange python]

@pseudo void not worth zerom just not good

[pseudo void]

ok

[fiery cradle]

@strange python that was simmed with 2x archive 1x blightborne

[brisk forge]

14.3 with 365 😯

[strange python]

@fiery cradle item level pieces?

[fiery cradle]

2x 370 1x 340

[pseudo void]

3ss =_= whats the fastest route to it ? freehold m0, and rep from champions ?

[strange python]

I have had 1 az piece since raid release. Ans i had to win that on a roll this morning on normal lol

[glacial steppe]

my weekly chest of disappointment gave me disappointment

[strange python]

@pseudo void m0 world tour has a few

[glacial steppe]

im disappointed

[fiery cradle]

mine gave me 380 underrot dagger

crit/mast zzz

[glacial steppe]

bis for m+

yikes

[strange python]

@fiery cradle nice. I got a 385 belt that was a downgrade

[glacial steppe]

380 vers/mastery bracers 😃

[arctic fjord]

look at this shit.. im mad..

[fiery cradle]

i mean that was a 355-380 dagger so

[glacial steppe]

still sitting at 340 azerite pieces

rip

[pseudo void]

@strange python ok, thank you. will have to do it tonight then 😉 was stuck doing freehold +3/+5 and out of 12 or so runs i got a 345 dagger 😦

[fiery cradle]

even on 5-6 targets, archive with 0 stacks sims higher than 2xss 1x blightborne or 1x archive 1x ss 1x blightborne

4-6

thonking

[peak sapphire]

Is that a 5 mim sim though

Or less than 1 min

[fiery cradle]

i did 2

lemme check less

[rustic onyx]

when playing toxic blade talent, do you still just clip EP or do you just try to put as much envenom into the toxic blade window as possible ?

[astral sundial]

but less then 1 min sim

would also assume you use vanish

which is not really true for m+

[desert pelican]

ct or pb in high keys this week guys?

[high siren]

pb imho

you'll need dps on boss

[fiery cradle]

i'd go more comp specific

[hot flume]

@rustic onyx I think the aime is to have the highest uptime on evenom buff

[hexed otter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jzNoyVnMyU2pMXW5rGWjx4 Is it worth going master assasin over subterfuge? I mean having 3 possible garrots for aoe is more badass than the buff from master assasin or I am wrong? :x

[high siren]

still, you'll lose most of your time on boss

I think that's a nobrainer

[hot flume]

So use TB just before evenom to be able to pull out two evenoms during TB window

[vestal abyss]

Overall dps is still king, given that you dont wipe

[fiery cradle]

flex hard

dalways

[hot flume]

I also read that even if at 5 CB points, just use TB before Evenom to get that buff uptime needed

[vestal abyss]

Im not sure about that tbh

[crimson isle]

You need 2-3 envenoms per Tb thats all

[vestal abyss]

I think its better to TB at 3 cp

or 4

and just prep better

[hot flume]

2 is manageable, 3 during vendetta or when I use mygalecallers'boon

[crimson isle]

If you pool properly you can get 3 without vendetta

[desert pelican]

@fiery cradle just to hard for me now to check aoe vs st dps of build in party before runstart, and peoples in even high lfg dont want to talk sometimes ;D

[crimson isle]

depends on crits too

[hot flume]

Than what is more important ? Having hight uptime on EP or pooling for Max evenoms during TB ?

[crimson isle]

Both

You need to clip envenoms with Ep as much as u can

[hot flume]

Yeah but if I pool for TB not sure I will be able to maintain EP

[whole ferry]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[hot flume]

Will depend on crit and needs more haste

[vestal abyss]

There is no way i can maintain EP at all times

[crimson isle]

about 70%

[hot flume]

There will be downtimes @vestal abyss obviously

[vestal abyss]

If your bleeds are up and TB is on cd, pool

[hot flume]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dcfyLkDjFp8Xt3vG#fight=28&type=auras&source=14&ability=193641

This is the best sin performer on Mythrax hardcore

[vestal abyss]

its called heroic

[hot flume]

In some way, highest uptime on boss

heroic sorry...

And still 70% uptime on EP

[vestal abyss]

I dunno i never looked at my EP uptime, just clip EP when you are bursting and keep envenom up when you an

[strange python]

@rustic onyx depends on traits. Ep uptime is 10% flat damage to everything. Bleeds, poisons etc. TB and envenom dont equate to the 10% flat unless your running double dose. At which point envenom uptime may pull ahead. Ideally you will pool before TB and will be able to do both during that window

@vestal abyss only clip ep during burst on BL opener or any other situation that will energy cap you

Else you delay another finisher to keep the longest possible EP uptime

[vestal abyss]

and during TB

[cyan stump]

are SB nerfs live?

[strange python]

@hot flume i have 99s and 100s for bracket with similar 68-71% ep uptime. It is because we have pooling periods which is built into the sims

@cyan stump should be

[grand burrow]

Anyone knows if they fixed the garotte bug?

[strange python]

So we pool and then cycle again.

[grand burrow]

With garotting multiple targets

[strange python]

@grand burrow no and they have no intention to. They have acknowledged it exists.

[hot flume]

Obviously you need tp pull to get out the maximum of Envenom during TB

There is no way around it

[strange python]

But have shown no willing actions to address. If they do it will probably be nerfed again

@hot flume exactly. So there will always be a large percent of downtime on ep. As long as when it is up your maximing it. Then its GG

[hot flume]

Yeah for sure we agree on that

Still on ravenholdt they say TB on cooldown

In my opinion it's misleading

[vestal abyss]

wut

Why wouldnt you tb on cd

[hot flume]

I'm not saying we should save it

It does not notice that we should pool before using and what for

[vestal abyss]

ook

[crimson isle]

I mean its kinda obv that you should pool

[strange python]

@vestal abyss yea just pay attention to the CD and manage your energy to ensure max dps during TB

[hot flume]

When I read it first tome, I felt like it was a standard combo builder

When I digged more into the spec, passives and TB tooltip I figured out that I should pool before using it

[shut bone]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[alpine grotto]

so whats the chart like now for the dps class in bfa after the latest round of nerfs and buffs?

[vestal abyss]

What do you mean

[hollow cloud]

does herodamage actually work for anyone?

it just goes whitescreen for me, maybe its adblock? 🤔

[hexed otter]

m2

[arctic fjord]

no i had this too, just refresh

[hollow cloud]

I mean each time I refresh I get a .2 flash screen of the actual website

then its whitescreen

[hexed otter]

yep go for bloodmallet

[arctic fjord]

ye i got this too, try to click on the specc while u refresh

then it works

[misty nacelle]

anyone has an idea of what would be the opener with 231xx21 (Master Assassin) ?

[hollow cloud]

I had to refresh like 20 times but it worked

thanks

[acoustic flame]

Anyone has a vectis mystic kill video from assa pov?

[hollow cloud]

yah

sec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JdiJ5Pa4rI dunno how helpful it will be, havnt checked it

[acoustic flame]

Anything is helpful, thanks 👌

[hollow cloud]

i have no idea how comms are either so eh

no PG13 in there id assume

[wary anchor]

would 1x eye of the glory be better than 1x ss now?

[solid nova]

There's only one way you'll know for certain: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/gear

[ripe comet]

Dizen i guess Garrotte , Mut , Mut without SS and Garotte , Garotte , Rupture without SS , But there is really no point in Picking MA rn

gar gar rip with ss*

or mut mut tb envonom garrote

or mut mut tb envonom garrote

[tranquil pivot]

Its the actuall Trait-Chart on Icy-Veins legit?

[strange python]

@ripe comet that doesnt seem optimal

[wary anchor]

should i do nightly or weekly for blood mallet?

[ripe comet]

@strange python i can't Think off an Opener at all that seems optimal with MA

[strange python]

There is one. Ill get it

[ripe comet]

But having 50% heut in Double Mut + TB seems more optimal then one extra heut in garrotte

[granite wind]

So for raiding one dd achive and ss good?

[ripe comet]

50% crit

[strange python]

I would vanish before the envenom after the TB

[ripe comet]

@granite wind yew

[strange python]

Mutilate, pool a bit, TB, vanish envenom, mutilate envenom

Or you can check the apl on the sim

And it will tell you what was used to hit that dps with MA

[glacial steppe]

do I want TB or EXS for M+?

[ripe comet]

But you can't Pool in an opener

[strange python]

@glacial steppe 3 x ss - exang

@ripe comet why can you not pull in an opener ? You just need to ensure you can envenom mut envenom during the vanish window

[ripe comet]

i mean you get a literal 3 sec crit buff you have to Spam

[strange python]

I pool between garrotes with ss

I will garrote, rupture wait a second, garrote for max empowered uptime before vendetta mutilate 5 cp rupture exang

When i vanish to re apply i do the same garrote, envenom, wait a moment garrotr on .2, mutilate then rupture once thr exnag rupture expires ( normall 1 or 2 seconds after that mutilate)

@ripe comet yes so make sure you have the energy to do it. If you dont have the energy to git the 2nd envenom its a dps loss

Im not saying get max energy

Just make sure you have the amount needed to envenom, mutilate, envenom

[ripe comet]

But Why would you Take MA over subterfuge if you play SS and Open with garrotte ?

[strange python]

Your the one that said about using MA

You didnt mention subterfuge :)

[ripe comet]

Somebody asked about MA

[strange python]

Yea so i was saying that was a more optimal opner than what you listed as you said you couldnt think of an optimal one :)

[ripe comet]

i tried to make an Opener for it which utilies the 3 sec of extra crit

[strange python]

For ss. Its as above, g,r,g, vend, mut, r, exang, mut envenom spamming (4-5 cp) or max ep uptime. Then vanish g, envenom, g, mutilate wait for rupture to fall off and reapply

Needs to be TB vanish envenom mut envenom

For MA opener

[wise whale]

MA opener is g,mut,rup, vendetta, vanish, TB, mut, Env

[ripe comet]

dunno , it makes Sense i guess but it still feels wrong

[wary anchor]

is eye of the glory really worse than 1x ss

[remote oak]

That doesn’t sound right. Why is there that much benefit from crit on TB? It doesn’t do nearly as much damage as an envenom

[pseudo void]

@hollow cloud
any chnace you know what is the rotation addon on that video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JdiJ5Pa4rI dunno how helpful it will be, havnt checked it

[ripe comet]

because it boosts the envonom by 30%

[remote oak]

Yeah, but you can cast it before vanish

[wise whale]

but why loose out on the crit of TB?

[remote oak]

Because it doesn’t do as much damage

[ripe comet]

tb Hits Harder then mut, and you can't Double envenom in 3 sec

[wise whale]

yes

[remote oak]

You can env mut env though

[ripe comet]

well technically you got a pretty good Chance to Double crit in mut

for envonom mut envenom

[pseudo finch]

@pseudo void Might be Hekili

[pseudo void]

@pseudo finch thanks, will take a look. as im using ovale by old memory, and its giving quite dubious recommendations at times

[strange python]

@ripe comet that may be right. As the TB will trigger the 3 seconds to do envenom, mut, envenom

[tranquil pivot]

is archive of titans outside of uldir good? cause it takes so long to get 20 stacks...

[strange python]

Does TB hit harder than envenom now?

[pseudo finch]

it's affectively another flask in combat

[wise whale]

i get great results with hits opener and it is also the opener that the sim does for MA

[ripe comet]

ist good if you chainpull in m+

[pseudo finch]

at 20 stacks

[remote oak]

I’d like to know the reasoning, but if it’s what the sim is doing I suppose that’s right

[tranquil pivot]

in open world archive of titans is crap, in my opinion. in m+ its only good, when you can maintain it at 20 stacks. w

[noble parrot]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[remote oak]

My crit jumps to 80% during MA window so there’s a high likelihood of hitting a 5CP env and a 4CP env after mut

For me anyway. I’m not actually sure why tb would be doing more with the crit is my issue

[strange python]

@remote oak why would you rupture during that window?

[remote oak]

Erm

Env

Good catch lmao

Too tired for this

[strange python]

How hard does TB hit now days? I thought it hit for a fair bit less than a 4cp envenom

[round wadi]

Without ss why we don't double garrote on pulll?

[tranquil pivot]

SS-Bug is so annoying...

[strange python]

@round wadi as you dpnt run subterfuge you run MA

[tranquil pivot]

Subterfuge-bug i mean.

[round wadi]

I don't run ma

[strange python]

@round wadi you tried simming with TB and MA?

May give slightly better results due to no ss.

[round wadi]

Yea it Sim like 20 dps more

[strange python]

@round wadi fair enough.

@remote oak mate do me a favour. Can you test something for me

Are you online playing?

[round wadi]

It makes no sense for me losing the possibility of garroting in more target

[remote oak]

Nah mobile rn

[strange python]

@vestal wren on vanish with MA if you TB during stealth is there enough time to Envenom mut envenom ?

Or do you need to cast TB, then vanish envenom mu envenom

[wise whale]

you cast TB after Vanish

[solid nova]

TB Before.

[pseudo finch]

😄

[wise whale]

sim saiys after

[vestal abyss]

Vendetta, Mut, TB, Vanish, Env, Mut, Env

Given that the first Mut brings you to 4+ cp

3+*

[cedar anchor]

pog http://prntscr.com/kywdt0

now do i vant SoB at the cost of some st dmg, or nah?

not playing raids really mainly m+ and wanna do arenas in the future

[strange python]

@cedar anchor disturbing pur theory crafting with his/her pretty loot :)

[vestal abyss]

SoB is good in arena
What addon shows the traits like that?

[strange python]

Azurite toolkit

[cedar anchor]

azeritetooltip

[shut robin]

*tooltip

[vestal abyss]

ty

and whats the addon called that shows better character info?

[strange python]

@shut robin cheers

do we still want to wait for vanish + vendetta when youre not running a single SS

and you also go mastet assassin

[wise whale]

MA opener

so MA runs out after TB mut ENV

2 envenoms within MA is not possible

for me

[remote oak]

Does your tb do more damage than a 4CP env?

[wise whale]

i dont know

[remote oak]

I’m fairly certain mine doesn’t but I’m not at a computer to test.

[halcyon sapphire]

!ss

[prisma monolith]

Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.