thanks fam, ppreciate it
#assassination
versed mica
pastel wasp
@frigid sleet can you tell me how you got that?
cosmic kindle
doesnt that lose like 1 gcd of vendetta or am i being stupid?
frigid sleet
run a sim, got to full html report, scroll down to 'Action Priority List' then 'Sample Sequence Table'
mint cairn
You do loose the 1cd while vendetta is up but your trying to get the most out of the 3secs of MA
versed mica
might be hid behind advanced options
frigid sleet
pastel wasp
my opener is garr>mut>mut>rup>vend>tb>mut>env
versed mica
@severe relic depends on what other traits you have. Check herodamage, see if you have any traits that are better than SS
severe relic
well i do, id be using 1x archive and 2x DD if no more SS
lone junco
Don't worry about hero damage. Just use top gear and sim your sets.
versed mica
that too
daring imp
@versed mica makes sense to open with garrote 'cuz you want energy ticking in asap
severe relic
just figured we'd keep one SS for the CPs but i guess not
lone junco
I use
1 archive. 2ss. Or
1 archive 1ditb 1dd
versed mica
@daring imp Ahhh. That makes sense.
neon chasm
whats ditb?
daring imp
dagger in the back
neon chasm
are we talking for m+?
lone junco
M+ is 3ss.
daring imp
high level scent can be good too
neon chasm
I like 2ss and arch for m+
lone junco
@severe relic if you took a week off. 1 archive 2 knife. With master assassin and tb. Is a thing.
neon chasm
for raid I stack arch
versed mica
Yeah, it depends on item level/what gear you have. it's different for everyone, just sim
neon chasm
that doesnt matter arch is best for raid
neon chasm
yes you do the arch buff stacks
daring imp
1x of it, yes
versed mica
according to hero damage, even without the raid buff stacking arch is still pretty decent tho
daring imp
1 arch or laser for reorigination array
neon chasm
arch stacking works
daring imp
i know it works
just the arch buff, not the reorigination array
but it's not "best for raid" after you have one reorigination array already
neon chasm
you get reorigination array for killing bosses anyway im not sure what your talking about
pastel wasp
i think hes saying the arch buff stack is worth
daring imp
unless your other azerite pieces are really low
pastel wasp
damn MA sims higher than subterfuge
daring imp
dd is a fine one
lone junco
when you run top gear, you can see the dps loss to use something you prefer.
I choose a 0.1 % loss for ss instead of a mashup
daring imp
@neon chasm what i was talking about is that 1x laser OR arch among your three azerite pieces is bis for raiding ( because of reorigination array ), the other two remaining slots will only be "BiS arch" if all your remaining* azerite gear is much lower ilvl
pastel wasp
@lone junco can u link armory
lone junco
m+ sec.
pastel wasp
mmm
lone junco
what ilvl are you trying to see?
pastel wasp
i have a few choices but i always go for the ones that sims higher
thats why ive got a mashup
34-
340
azurite
lone junco
well. sims higher in 5min isnt necesarrily better on vectis. or mother or zul or fetid.
neon chasm
can't just go by sim in fights with movement or switching of targets
lone junco
I try to look at logs of similar fight length
pastel wasp
!spec
prisma monolithBOT
All specs are good. Specific ones shine in specific areas.
Check the following resources for the facts:
Warcraft Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#class=Rogue
Raider.io: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict
lone junco
3ss
lone junco
I have a hat that I swap to archive and back.
tue wed as archive, then the rest of the week as ss.
lone junco
g g g ct. fok rupture elites, then if there are "a bunch" you can refresh CT early.
if there are not a bunch, then hammer some env.
never bug your garrotes
that is the only important part.
if you are not finishing a pack around 20k dps, you did it wrong.
versed mica
(Assassination, Subtlety) Sharpened Blades: damage reduced by 30% (unchanged in PvP). The benefit of having multiple copies of this trait active is reduced.
(Assassination) Poisoned Wire: Critical Strike increased by 50%.
WHELP
lone junco
you could think about it if your fok comes up with like 1cp
warm hatch
Poisoned wire trait?
versed mica
ffs lmao
lofty sand
wish they could at least buff DD or scent instead of doing these weird changes
and nerfing our other practical traits
fierce lantern
sky is falling yet again
lofty sand
I don't think we have enough fotm here to make a shitstorm about this
outer wedge
is the sky falling again 
arctic isle
its weird because they are reducing SB with more than 1 stack
when it was shit with 1 stack anyway
so its basically dead completely now
lofty sand
I think thats a pvp inspired nerf, I heard SB was great on pvp
outer wedge
blizzard balancing works in mysterious ways
lofty sand
oh yeah my bad
unchanged pvp
oh well, blizzard doesn't like knife throwing then
thats the only thing I can think of
pure sparrow
lofty sand
at one point this expansion I had triple DD and I scrapped them, I should have just kept that.
umbral crescent
first time attempting Zul
astral hound
umbral crescent
this is quite the fight
rancid palm
at this point might as well keep even the shittiest traits with these buff and nerfs coming every week
its like tier gear 2.0 up in here
strange python
rip sub forever
outer wedge
at this point im just rolling with the best trait on the piece and don't bother anymore with stacking
lofty sand
blizzard wants us to hoard every single piece of azerite we get
outer wedge
even if i maybe lose 100dps~
potent rune
i need more bag slots
outer wedge
this balance mumbo jumbo is too dumb atm
rancid palm
"We dont like tier sets and old tier sets being better than our new ones so we are getting rid of them Oh by the way, that 325 azerite piece may wanna hold onto that if you dont see another trait for a long time"
cold meteor
thick comet
remember to avoid whatever is the new best trait after these changes
because it will get nerfed next week anyway
lofty sand
well with all those nerfs, they finally managed what they wanted to. You pretty much just equip whats higher ilvl and pray it has an ok trait
outer wedge
rip double dose
frigid sleet
and dont forget about paying thousands of golds everytime you want to play with your differents specs
outer wedge
lol
thick comet
roll druid and use astral form and pretend you're using arcane magic
outer wedge
thats my biggest issue right now @frigid sleet
its impossible to play 2 specs
without hoarding tons of gears
frigid sleet
I litteraly have to pay around 5 to 10k everytime I want to play around my differents specs
pastel crystal
azerite gear is so easy to farm
frigid sleet
the reforging system is terrible
pastel crystal
lofty sand
Just use all uldir traits, that seems to be the plan blizzard has for us
rancid palm
yep. farm uldir for the traits and just keep hthose till next raid
lofty sand
and you can use it on all specs!
hahaha
blizzard hates you having good traits that interact with your spec
outer wedge
azerite traits are probably(lol) the worst executed system wow ever introduced
frigid sleet
yep but what do you do when the chest from raid which has SS is the best for m+ but you want to reforge it for raiding : boom $$$$$$
rancid palm
should have just kept tier sets instead of trying to re invent the wheel
stone quartz
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
potent rune
wtb volor point system that lets u buy an item to reroll azerite traits
rancid palm
but at least you know what you're stuck with vs this nerf/buff weekly system
prime zephyr
so do you guys try and pad dots on taloc during phase two? or just focus the high health slimes
arctic isle
taloc has 99% dmg reduc
halcyon tulip
poisoned wire gives you the crit for next 2 mutilates but the tooltip hasnt shown that all xpac long so far
potent rune
as long as the add dies before ur dots run out u should hget enarly a full bar back
civic palm
It will give you more if you Garrote more.
As a note: Blizzard wants you to keep/use Azerite Armor that is higher item level than your previous Azerite Armor, it's always been their intention.
magic zenith
So isn't poisoned wire basically raking ferocity? the shit they just nerfed for feral for being op in pvp?
potent rune
intention vs reality... intention never win since we are stil lin alpha
halcyon tulip
your crit damage is half for pvp
civic palm
Minus the part where they are making their intention into reality and things are more balanced week after week.
dense blaze
More nerfs lmfao what the fuck is happening
civic palm
But keep shitting on them I am sure that's conducive in some way.
fossil agate
We are still chart topping after other nerfs
warm hatch
Feels like im playing a MOBA with these weekly patch notes
civic palm
You're playing an MMO, there will be more patch notes.
potent rune
there was more then enough feedback in these shit in the beta, but why are we playing the beta on live still?
fossil agate
Sharpened blades was clearly never intended to work how it did
outer wedge
make every azerite trait equally awful and balance is restored 
civic palm
100 people whining at everything isn't the same as 1,000,000 ACTUALLY playing the game and getting good numbers.
fossil agate
Yea I feel like they should embrace the OP on azerite
civic palm
(Assassination, Subtlety) Sharpened Blades: damage reduced by 30% (unchanged in PvP). The benefit of having multiple copies of this trait active is reduced.
Also, this isn't a nerf it's a buff, as you should be using this fucking trait.
potent rune
this shoulda been implimented in the beta
frigid sleet
I dont understand why they made the stacking of the same trait possible, it makes everything harder to balance for them and we stack the same shit instead of playing around with differents mechanics from differents traits
fossil agate
IDK all the mechanics except SS are really weak when you only have one of
potent rune
cuz they ran out of time so they just but same trait on diff armor slots that way they have to stack or they would be useless
civic palm
What?
If they didn't have the numbers to balance things correctly, how could they then balance things correctly?
and literally 0 traits scale in an exponential manner, making having more of them just as easy to balance as having 2.
potent rune
what ever happened to we will not do drastic changes after the mythic raids releases, then bam huge nerfs everywhere
fossil agate
Sharpened blades pre nerf is literally an exponential scale
frigid sleet
even then, when one trait is op you stack it, so when it gets nerfed you start from scratch
pastel vault
It's not exponential lol
potent rune
ot just for sb but for everything, ss, blade in the shadow, deadshot
rancid palm
wtb poisoned wire to be good now so i can use my 370 chest
fossil agate
1 sharpened blades is 400, 2 is 1544 Thats pretty exponential has nearly 2x the value of the first one
opaque tree
poisoned wire isn't that bad for switching targets
pastel vault
And the third is nearly the same gain as the 2nd
fossil agate
its not a pure exponential, but its definently not linear gains
opaque tree
fights like vectus, or zul, or even the add phase of Myth poisoned wire is actually pretty nice
fossil agate
Granted they are nerfing all of the ones that do scale like that in favor of The more linear traits
opaque tree
it's just really bad for single target since your rotation is already in flux
civic palm
@potent rune
what ever happened to we will not do drastic changes after the mythic raids releases, then bam huge nerfs everywhere
When did they say this?
opaque tree
Did we get nerfed, again?
potent rune
back in legion in one of their live q and a
fossil agate
Sharpened blades -30% and behind the scenes reduced scaling when stacked
arctic isle
@potent rune that was regarding the world first race
fossil agate
my only major complaint with these changes is how hard getting decent Ilvl azerite is compared to how often things are being changed
its impossible to get BIS Azerite traits atm before they get nerfed again, above 340*
potent rune
during the world 1st race ss was 40% nerfed...
arctic isle
what?
opaque tree
i never had Sharpened Blades Trait, so i'm not feeling that nerf. Was anything else nerfed?
arctic isle
everyones will to liv
civic palm
@potent rune SS isn't a raiding trait, and influenced nothing.
wicked comet
🤔
wheat zealot
Balance SS got nerfed, funny to see dreamgrove in flames 
wheat zealot
yiKes
outer wedge
💦
potent rune
id do mother load over kr anyday where teeming gets u 2 berserkers that 1shots tanks
light kestrel
Odd, they buffed arcane by 3%
And then I saw the azerite nerfs, nevermind rip
and then I realized I was in the wrong discord
steep badger
whyyyyyy
fossil agate
I dont understand the point in azerite at this point
strange python
they literally have no idea what they are doing at this point
fossil agate
like weekly nerf to everyones best trait because? Fun detected?
steep badger
I just don't get how you could leave strong traits strong enough for people to spend hours upon hours farming specific loot to perform well, pull the rug out from under them 6 weeks in
dense blaze
And reforging cost is still a thing with weekly nerfs lmfao this game costs money to play
torpid jackal
the Activision dick goes deep
fossil agate
my reforge is over 1k right now 😦
steep badger
At this rate double dose will get the nerfbat next tuesday
torpid jackal
"MAKE THEM GRIND FOR WEEKS"
fossil agate
Then crash it
feral plume
is there still a bug with SS or naw? i could have sworn i read that it had some bug with it.
barren forge
Got the boralus head with SB 385 last week 😂 rip me again
strange python
this is as bad as when they gutted outlaw in EN, when people had legendaries and the weapon levelled up
arctic isle
im pretty sure u guys are just crying for the sake of it
SB was barely used by anyone
surreal rivet
boys i just broke 22% haste shits about to get real
strange python
I didnt use SB, ive got my archives and matrices
strange python
any idea if poisoned wire could be viable now
surreal rivet
@torpid jackal is fan of blades build good in keys?
strange python
have to wait for raidbots to input changes if it hasnt and sim it
barren forge
I did because i had too after looting 385 boralus. Poison wired was the alternative 😂
torpid jackal
@surreal rivet nah, 3xSS still king
dense blaze
@surreal rivet call me when you get to the 23.01% club
night cypress
so, rip sharpened blades?
barren forge
farm azerite gear 😂 good one
night cypress
do we think the sharpened wire buff is gonna be enough to bring it to playable?
strange python
wow is not an MMORPG anymore, its is an MMOLootCasino
night cypress
sorry, poisoned wire
barren forge
Nah you win more in a Casino
torpid jackal
here you pay up to $15/month to get kicked in the balls
barren forge
Dont know @night cypress sadly ihave to pick it cause of my 385 helmet
night cypress
judging by the current numbers on bloodmallet...it aint lookin good chief
warm hatch
Blood mallet isnt updated yet
placid elbow
Is there a link to the patchnotes?
mystic mesa
for trinket My'da Talisman, do you save for vendetta. or use on CD?
placid elbow
Thanks
civic palm
You people thinking Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing are insane O _O"
torpid jackal
blink twice if you're being forced to type that at gunpoint
civic palm
Blink at all if you think that things haven't been going in a positive direction towards things being actually balanced and not just having traits that are wildly unbalanced causing people to spend thousands on rerolling traits because item levels were not dictating upgrades rather the wildly shifting weights of the previous overpowered traits.
_>
placid elbow
Meeehhh, i'd be okay with these nerfs, if they actually brought Affliction Warlocks down
They do a fucking buttload of damage
unkempt belfry
"Look, you only think you want good azerite traits, but you don't." Ion'Zoth 2018
placid elbow
nothing more depressing than a warlock whose 350 doing just as much DPS as you are at 360 lol
civic palm
If you think that having clearly overpowered traits is okay in any way you need to stop commenting.
spice surge
Ilvl is irrelevant
torpid jackal
getting some amazing Sony vibes with The Vision(TM)
spice surge
and besides, its not like rogues should complain about stuff being op
We're still really strong
Even after nerfs
unkempt belfry
Mizerok, we just came out of an expansion where you had to have a single legendary for all specs to be relevent. At this point we're trained to think that way.
placid elbow
how is ilvl irrelevant? it's literally gauging how much more geared you are on an average basis lol
Like i said, i don't mind the nerfs lol. Just don't think other classes should be waaay ahead either
spice surge
Well not irrelevant, but not a good gauge of how much damage you should be doing
Because 355 could be more dps than 360 because you're itemised better
torpid jackal
just because everyone stacks 5 rogues on Zul doesn't mean we're ok
placid elbow
i mean, i'm pretty well itemized, which is the issue @spice surge lol
spice surge
A 395 bracer isnt gonna bring your dps up as much as a 395 weapon, but its the same ilvl gap
placid elbow
you're not wrong there but i have a higher ilvl weapon than said warlock, just saying. Warlocks are doing an insane amount of damage, that's all lol.
ruby idol
Imagine playing rogue right now and still complaining
pallid bluff
weapon ilvl doesnt mean as much for casters as it does for melee
ruby idol
I'd hate to see you on a class that actually struggles with anything
pallid bluff
its just stats for them while for us alot of stuff scales heavily off of weapon DPS
placid elbow
Which goes back to my point, warlocks are doing a buttload of damage lol
torpid jackal
i'd like to see comparative dps jumps between a warlock and a rogue going from 355 to 370 weapon
for shits and giggles
torpid jackal
yep, cba
civic palm
@unkempt belfry
Mizerok, we just came out of an expansion where you had to have a single legendary for all specs to be relevent. At this point we're trained to think that way.
and you need to untrain yourself out of this and realize that the math support the changes being made and that [outside of very specific niches] near all specs (all specs in the case of the ones discussed on this discord) are fine or are currently being worked on (in the case of SPriest and Shaman).
pallid bluff
do people actually think spriests are bad?
supple marten
👋 @fiery flower
unkempt belfry
Oh, I know. Just lending some justification for those that are complaining. Rogues have needed every nerf they've gotten this xpac. The class is still awesome.
mint cairn
.
umbral prairie
Ele is still probably going to be bad sadly
But rogues are fine
Right where they should be at worst
safe matrix
Hotfix 2018/09/24 concerning Assassination, see Aethys' post in #tc-updates for a general idea on the changes.
(Assassination) Sharpened Blades: The benefit of having multiple copies of this trait active is reduced.
(Assassination) Poisoned Wire: Critical Strike increased by 50%.
ruby idol
what? classes that struggle?
dapper marlin
why is everyone stacking mastery
strange python
because its better for m+
haughty parrot
Am i suppose to be energy straved in m+? Felt like i was struggling to get any
placid elbow
shouldn't be
garrote 3 targets from stealth, rupture maybe 3 targets
Fok>CT>FOK>envenom
unlimited energy tbh
haughty parrot
On bosses i felt like i had none
haughty parrot
AD?
pallid bluff
well if you are building for M+ with crit and mastery than you would feel a bit starved on bosses
placid elbow
^ true
haughty parrot
Hm ok
placid elbow
On bosses, it'll feel that way if you are on the lower end of haste
strange python
ct is always better in m+ even tyrannical. the only exception is kingsrest
pallid bluff
trash you shouldnt really be starved at all
strange python
it outperforms poisonbomb in every way
placid elbow
yeaaaaa, that's low my guy
haughty parrot
Lol
pallid bluff
man i have like 5% in my M+ set
placid elbow
it wasn't until i hit 18-20% that i actually had energy to just spam lol
torpid jackal
14% because RNGesus doesnt like me
pallid bluff
you just have to plan a bit more than normal on bosses
on trash its the same pretty much regardless
undone cairn
so what does this change for poisoned wire mean 🤔
undone cairn
it looks small tbh
onyx falcon
PW just seems like an unfun playstyle
undone cairn
or maybe im understanding it wrong
yeah nvm i was just understanding the tooltip wrong
onyx falcon
45 Energy + Mut 55 Energy every 3-4ish secs off CD is what id assusme the playstyle would be
civic palm
Poisoned Wire is still extremely awkward to use.
onyx falcon
just doesnt seem right
undone cairn
yeah
strange python
well im speaking for m+
undone cairn
im sticking with dd
civic palm
and that's assuming you are Vanishing @ 0 CP.
undone cairn
fak pw
civic palm
PW is shit in M+ as you DO NOT Mutilate almost ever.
undone cairn
unless sims say otherwise by a large margin
onyx falcon
DD = Double Dose i assume?
undone cairn
ya
undone cairn
ss for life homie
onyx falcon
^
onyx falcon
i needa learn CT tbh, you hafta run exang right?
civic palm
Poisoned Wire is one of those traits that is interesting, but it clearly a First Wave Trait.
undone cairn
yeah
undone cairn
i mean
onyx falcon
whhhy
pallid bluff
why wouldnt you run exsang in m+ though
pallid bluff
more energy, better priority damage than TB, you dont have to be in melee to use it efficiently
onyx falcon
just legion me still <3ing poison
placid elbow
i can't grasp Exsang cause i'm a scrub lol
onyx falcon
sin guide have anything on CT/Exang? gonna go look actually
placid elbow
if Exsang comes off CD.... do you refresh rupture and garrote and then exsang?
undone cairn
i kinda learned it based off of this discord lol
pallid bluff
depends on the pack and what you are using it on
onyx falcon
doesnt really and i was just trying to find a resource to find a base on it
so im not just asking stupid
onyx falcon
ive nverreally ran bleed
pallid bluff
most of the time you triple garrote, CT, 2 FoK, Rupture a garrote target, Exsang
undone cairn
get that 30 sec rupt
onyx falcon
i just hate how CT doesnt give venomous wounds
even 1 energy bonus would be nice
per target
undone cairn
lol
sweet flame
if ct gave woulds
undone cairn
that'd be op
sweet flame
that'd be uh
onyx falcon
yea i know =.=
undone cairn
energy for days
onyx falcon
i just hate the energy regen atm
undone cairn
i'd be a dh
pallid bluff
its really only a big deal on bosses and really tanky stuff, a 20 sec rupture exsang is fine on most stuff
undone cairn
kappa
pallid bluff
trash wise that is
onyx falcon
true, even as a poison sin i get enough energy on AoE
just if i fk up and miss a drop im starved
sweet flame
I mean, I'd say you tend more towards bleed
placid elbow
i think "Poison" sin means... mastery? lol
sweet flame
I'd assume just tb vs exsang
strange python
no
placid elbow
and Master Poisoner?
pallid bluff
i think it means TB master poisoner?
placid elbow
i dunno, i see it the same way you do ocarina, i'm just sayin lol
poison sin probably means a poison spec instead of relying more on bleeds.
sweet flame
I guess if you didn't play legion mut it makes less sense? The two builds were way more defined then
strange python
"oh im a poison sin because im a diehard, i will never use rupture and garrote because it destroys my image of a sin rogue"
sweet flame
yikes
pallid bluff
though im curious to see what a full mastery/haste build that only uses TB and envonem and no garrote and rupture
would do dps wise
sweet flame
next to nothing
mastery scales your bleeds too now xd
and you need bleeds for wounds procs
pallid bluff
yeah obviously it would be bad. but are we talking 2k dps bad or like 6k bad
strange python
" hey discord im always out of energy i dont know why. im a poison sin and i dont use my bleeds because im not a bleed sin 💩 "
sweet flame
bfa sin doesn't even have any real difference tbh
poison vs bleed was an actual thing, but now there's only like one flex talent anyways xd
mint cairn
Do my sims look about where they need to be for not having any uldir traits on my pieces? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/g6E7pRu6WzqitFa7NR9DGR
placid elbow
Looks solid to me
marble hemlock
cant look at the sim, getting blinded by the ugly dwarf mug :<
mint cairn
LUL
pallid bluff
alliance in 2k18 FeelsBadMan
sweet flame
master assassin 
marble hemlock
subtfuge might sim higher, dunno
placid elbow
he doesn't have SS tho
marble hemlock
but apparently for some people MA is highest simming talent right now
strange python
depends what azerites you use
marble hemlock
i mean, we played subt before SS was even a thing, its still a good talent
mint cairn
Ya no ss traits either. Ive been having shit luck for traits so far.
marble hemlock
but im guessing he simmed himself for top-traits prior to doing the statweight one
placid elbow
without SS, not sure if Subtfuge would sim higher
marble hemlock
but yeah, 13.5k for that gearlevel is pretty gud actually
torpid jackal
how many goats do i need to sacrifice to get a proper weapon drop
pallid bluff
yeah i think i only sim at like 14.7ish at 370
marble hemlock
its not goats, you did it wrong
sweet flame
get to 1600 in pvp, receive weapons tbh
marble hemlock
its newborn or kittens
mint cairn
I ended up buying one cause it took so long
strange python
its free for anyone
torpid jackal
i kept getting belts from tolD
placid elbow
i got lucky and got the weapon off of Mother on heroic first try
sweet flame
1600 is like...370 something right?
placid elbow
bro, GRIND
strange python
1600 is 360
torpid jackal
i am shit at pvp
sweet flame
mmmm I was like 1500 first week and got 365?
copper hawk
How much would going from 325 to 350 OH roughly up my damage by?
pallid bluff
just mongo it with a DH or another rogue in 2s
marble hemlock
not by much
pallid bluff
you can get 1600 ez even if your trash
strange python
even 1.8
mint cairn
ive been trying to pug some SOS for GCB this week cant even get people in a +5 to finish the damn place on time. Feelsbadman.
copper hawk
Like maybe 500?
copper hawk
Ah that's lame lol
sweet flame
pug tanks so bad zzz
mint cairn
ya its freaking terrible
mint cairn
lol same
placid elbow
and then the group just quits before the first boss lol
sweet flame
everytime, tank pulls everything and then doesn't kite and dies cause it's fort week 😒
placid elbow
like, all you have to do is get past the healers and that's it, everything else is cheeeese
but NOPE lol
mint cairn
I heard they stealth nerfed fortified today any truth to that?
I didnt see anything on mmochamp
sweet flame
idk
placid elbow
"your IO too low boi"
sweet flame
yeah, teeming nerf was big
marble hemlock
they nerfed teeming a few days ago
mint cairn
ah maybe thats what it was.
pallid bluff
that fuckign templer before the elemental was brutal
lone junco
underrot was way better today than tuesday
marble hemlock
just sap templar
and ignore them
they have stealth detect, but you can still shadowstep+sap them
vapid oracle
yeah i actually enjoyed doing a couple M+ today compared to the beginning of the week
pallid bluff
they gave the minibosses stealth detect too which is aids
mint cairn
How do you guys feel about having fort/tyran right off the bat this xpac?
onyx falcon
Teeming was stealth nerfed on friday night
mint cairn
I think it makes 1-9 much harder than in legion.
pallid bluff
i think its better than having it at 10
1-9 basically didnt matter in legion 90% of the time
onyx falcon
honestly infested is more of a non-affix than it is sometimes, the only annoying thing is i keep forgetting the kill ghunns n just run away to the next pack 1/2 the time
marble hemlock
doesnt really change anything
onyx falcon
its mainly just an affix to stop the pulling of 90% of the dungeon at once
like pplz did in legion
onyx falcon
"yea lets tag horsey n pull the entire room"
agreed
on fort weeks, some of the bosses still feel like theyre tyran
marble hemlock
mostly because theres no one-shots so you can play bosses until your healer goes oom, instead of running out of defensives eventually and dying because of that
onyx falcon
and fort w/ infested makes it a bit harder
sweet sedge
taking my rogue seriously.. just bought fathoms... biggest purchase of my wow career lol
marble hemlock
thats because blizz kept their dumbass random-ness when it comes to how adds scale with tyrannical/fort
onyx falcon
@ deg , in before long boi
sweet sedge
is it getting a huge nerf?
mint cairn
are they nerfing fathoms?
sweet sedge
phew
mint cairn
LUL got my ass
onyx falcon
lul imagine
marble hemlock
noobe being toxic
onyx falcon
"300% nerf to fathoms"
onyx falcon
my dice luck is pretty good
strange python
im stuck with a 390 harlan's and 390 dead-eye spyglass 
onyx falcon
1st dice 325, 2nd dice 350 avoid socket, 3rd dice (yesterday night) 370 socket
lone junco
i got gc from my first week box. pretty sure that is the end of my luck for the expac
mint cairn
lol
onyx falcon
how fat? >:)
pallid bluff
cmon man +10s are hard infested is scary
quiet ginkgo
infested is actually fine
marble hemlock
i dont like the change to quaking they did tho
pallid bluff
man if they were cc immune that would actually be more fun
pallid bluff
what did they change?
marble hemlock
should be immune to cc if infested
similar to how bolstered mobs are immune
cant mitigate the quack anymore
so the 🦆 always deals full damage
even with feint or tank-CDs
and then you have stuff like
3rd boss kingsrest
giving tankdebuff that increases phys damage taken by 200%
so the quack hits for 60% of HP
😃
mint cairn
kings rest is booboo
pallid bluff
man i havent even noticed it hasnt been working with feint. just have been reflex using it all the time
all that wasted energy 😦
marble hemlock
yeah, KR is kinda annoying
opaque grotto
Motherlode was tons of fun this week at +10
marble hemlock
didnt get one lastweek, and fucked up today so we didnt even time the 14 😦
and im not sure how minibosses will feel next week with necrotic/raging
pallid bluff
KR blows. that thrid boss just eats up time
marble hemlock
but should be fine since its tyra
pallid bluff
what have you guys found to be the worst bosses on tryan?
torpid jackal
underrot 2nd and 3rd
marble hemlock
temple 1+3
fleet whale
well I chose a good time to go back to assassination lol
onyx falcon
KR 1st boss on Tyran
marble hemlock
and KR 1st is shit if your healer cant spotheal
onyx falcon
fuuuuuuuccccckkk that
unkempt phoenix
that dot is aids
onyx falcon
its almost mandatory to bring a frost mage on high keys atm for that fight
it suuuuuucccckkks
pallid bluff
nah just mass entangle
nimble tartan
🤤
onyx falcon
druids really arent in M+
pallid bluff
uhhhh
elder gulch
In mythic + do you garrotte everyone and at 4-5 combo points you rupture then continue to garotte everyone?
onyx falcon
the utility n sht they can bring to keys
elder gulch
garrote*
pallid bluff
you would garrote 3 from stealth, CT, then FoK into ruptures while keeping the CT bleed up. at least if you have SS traits
not sure what you do without them tbh
probably the same thing
desert hazel
I.e you are a warlock, dot all the things
pallid bluff
make sure you dont apply a 4th garrote until your empowered ones run out
onyx falcon
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
onyx falcon
^ via that
fading spade
Yayyyy not even one week after SS got obliterated. Now SB is getting nerfed hard
pallid bluff
SS didnt get obliterated
fading spade
And poor sub rogues. BITS is taking another hit
marsh elm
inc SB nerf
primal gazelle
did they buff or nerf poisoned wire? cant tell
pallid bluff
and sharpened blades wasnt that good anyway
fading spade
40% dmg reduction on SS made it sim much lower
pallid bluff
well on patchwerk raid fights its worse but its still fine in M+
fading spade
Yeah I still run it in m+
pallid bluff
and tbh who cares about raids
fading spade
I mean I enjoy progression. To each their own
onyx falcon
wonder whats the overall nerf of SS since bfa came out
fading spade
I think 40%
safe matrix
12% nerf and a 40% nerf, and its still a really strong trait
fading spade
It took a 12% hit? Must've been at the start
safe matrix
yeah right at the start
primal gazelle
where do you see 40%
pallid bluff
did it get nerfed in beta as well?
marsh elm
as of right now,i think its in line
thin ingot
onyx falcon
@lia yea i know i mean... the actually maths what the total is from the starting # like what is the 40% and 12% from base before any nerfs 😛
maths is too hard >.<
lone junco
I'm like 13.4. 353 ilvl. Hope to get a wep from mother this week to pop a little more.
Tyra has a 395 socket wep. Must be nice.
pastel wasp
353 13.4 thats big
marsh elm
im still waiting for a weap drop since start of expac
spiral bolt
fringe bloom
is it worth using a 385 rezan´s fury over a 355 SS for m+?
pallid bluff
probably not
fringe bloom
hmm k ty
pallid bluff
you would have to just try both for a couple dungeons to see though
marsh elm
if they keep going, no traits will do anything to dps
pallid bluff
i mean that was kinda their plan from the beggining from what they said
lone junco
@fringe bloom best you can do imo: sim 6t patchwerk. 40s. No buffs. And compare the gear sets.
pallid bluff
traits should all be close to each other pretty much
lone junco
My guess is that SS will win.
They have too many traits to keep balanced.
They fucked up.
pallid bluff
doesnt seem to be that bad. they don't need everythign to be perfect. i would say their sweet spot would be to have all traits within 15 ilvls of each other.
assuming they dont add like 20 with the new patches they can probably balance them fairly well over the next month or so
strange python
"people didnt like netherlight crucibles.. people liked tier sets... lets remove tier sets and introduce azerite armor :)"
pallid bluff
"people liked tier sets" what are you smoking
strange python
i liked tier sets way more than this shit
cosmic pier
but all the casuals REE'd too hard that tier is locked behind raiding :~)
strange python
id rather have no system in place than azerite
id rather be behind a 5 month timegate of no raiding
marsh elm
when they do the balancing, its better to lower one by a lesser margin while buffing the others by a medium margin until all traits from all classes are within 10ilvls of eachother tbh
lone junco
At least tier you could accept and work around. Worst part about tier was PL coin locking.
strange python
"lets remove tier sets because people were upset they couldnt equip their shit from the weekly chest omegalul"
lone junco
Azerite is fine by me. The cost is burning a hole in me though.
civic palm
SB wasn't good why are people bummed?! > ,<
strange python
i would like it more if it was easier to get access to higher ilvl azerite
lone junco
But i have bags full of Purple azerite.
strange python
i can not do more than clear shit and bonus roll
cosmic pier
because it sets a bad precedent
lone junco
I was actually hoping for a crit rate buff to the garrote mut trait.
civic palm
I think it is fair to assume that once things are wildly dumb in terms of the traits, they won't be touched.
cosmic pier
if blizzard is just gonna keep nerfing top traits til they're happy, doesn't exactly send a good message to players
pallid bluff
i mean how is that a bad policy
civic palm
People act like they are nerfing traits to the point where you cannot use them, which is factually false.
strange python
if they didnt have mythic plus all their content would have failed this addon already
pallid bluff
to get top overperforming traits into line with others
strange python
no one likes azerites, no one likes island expeditions and no one likes warfronts
civic palm
Warfronts are fine wtf is the issue now?!
lone junco
I like traits. And I like islands.
civic palm
IT'S NOT AV2.0
lone junco
Ayy
civic palm
IT'S FUCKED
strange python
i play m+ and raid thats all i enjoy
lone junco
That's like 2/3 of content.
pallid bluff
yeah same? doesnt mean that theres anything necessarily wrong with the other stuff
civic palm
Yeah but pet battles?
strange python
well they should put more money torwards 2/3rd of the content because warfronts were obviously a waste of money and time
civic palm
Money?
pallid bluff
warfronts are SICK for gearing alts
strange python
you think those kind of systems build themselves? LOL
civic palm
You think money can buy them a time machine?
pastel wasp
man
strange python
your logic is so broken wtf
strange python
oh yea? how many do you play per week?
pastel wasp
cant tell if thats sarcasm or not lol
strange python
and you are not afk?
civic palm
No.
strange python
ofc not
civic palm
Why make something take LONGER?
civic palm
What kinda thinking is that?
strange python
armory*
lone junco
Dooooooom. Glooooom
civic palm
I think I am wearing the belt, nothing from it is better.
Was doing them for the daggers and swords.
Still didn't get the swords > _>
pallid bluff
warfronts are fine for the weekly and good for getting alt gear not sure what your issue with them is
you literally only have to do 1 per cycle if you dont want to do more
pastel wasp
real question, wheres the weekly quest giver now
pallid bluff
and even then you dont HAVE too
civic palm
I like that some of these achievements show as well.
this works
this doesn't
pffft
pastel wasp
alliance scum
civic palm
YEP
pastel wasp
SCUM
civic palm
smiling SCUM
pastel wasp
wipe that smile off
strange python
edgy
civic palm
But yeah... Warfronts are for gearing alts, some achievements, and some transmog. Expecting a complex system out of that is odd.
pastel wasp
is that naxx?
civic palm
?
pallid bluff
playing alliance. playing rogue. not playing voidelf. wtf is wrong with you
pastel wasp
dawnwalkers
strange python
mizerok i think you didnt get a single point out of that conversation
civic palm
Playing Alliance;
strange python
just stahp
pallid bluff
but the racial dude
civic palm
or the excellent financial saver that is SHADOWMELD.
jagged sigil
Shadowmeld with subterfuge is fucking op for saps out of blind and garrote silence
torpid jackal
i'll take my aoe purge
pallid bluff
i still miss the silence man
jagged sigil
IS SS STILL BEST?????????????//
jagged sigil
Being a troll to that on topic comment, as that's what 90% of this chat has been the last week
pallid bluff
the real question is how much M+ have you been doing to say that daggers are a myth
rain breach
They nerfed sb?
civic palm
Internet is taking a shit on itself = \
pastel wasp
@pallid bluff over 900
pallid bluff
🤔 900
pastel wasp
nine hundred
safe matrix
this conversation -> #off-topic
strange python
yes back to topic, im starving energy because im a poison sin !! i dont use bleeds, whats up with that 
pallid bluff
if theres hardly any difference just choose whatever. i would probably choose OP just cause i would convince myself the haste would be noticeable
green saffron
Hi, I have question about Poisoned Wire trait. Each time I garrote, i have 2 stacks of buff crit, so it means I can do 2 mutilate crit buff? Is this intended?
pastel wasp
interesting
fading spade
I think they're trying to make a garrote mut rup opener a thing
green saffron
Does it synergy with Double Dose? since DD apply dot when you hit Mutilate with 2 both daggers (which mean Mutilate crit).
rain breach
2x double dose + 1 poisened wire inc ;)
fading spade
I'd be ok with that
pallid bluff
i guarantee they aren't thinking about what the opener is going to be. they probably see that almost noone takes PW or that its not impactful when they calculate it internally so they are buffing it.
torpid jackal
aaand now PW and DD will get nerfed
civic palm
Nah.
fading spade
Well yeah I'm sure they arent thinking about openers. But if PW becomes viable then I agree with @rain breach DDx2 and PW
green saffron
@rain breach ye i'm thinking the same thing, 2xDD and 1xPW
green saffron
doesn't DD already on top of ST sims ?
civic palm
IIRC it's effectively tied.
DD is very solid and should perform better in relation to how most people perform with SS as well. While the SIMs should show DD well ahead of SS people are not machines.
fading spade
I wish I had pieces with DD on it. I have a 370 and a 355 with SS. Still running that sadly
steep obsidian
if only there was a spammable type of dungeon where you could farm the gear you wanted at a decent ilvl
each dungeon could have a key
and you could get your friends and run it with them
and get the azurite pieces you wanted
🤔
fading spade
Except azerite doesnt drop in keys
dull lintel
^
steep obsidian
that was sarcasm
civic palm
but then you'd be done with it and not care about running the dungeons anymore.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
WTF is DD even on?!
steep obsidian
i guess I forgot to add /s
fading spade
When I stop parsing in the 80s and 90s I'll switch my build.
civic palm
heh
steep obsidian
i got like 100% out of like 3 sub passes at my ilvl last week 1 out of 3
come fite me
that was with gear on though 😛
eager cobalt
Anyone else having issues finding high key m+?
I've been told more than once that "Rogues have no AoE"
Which seems insane to me?
quasi iris
What’s your I.o
pallid bluff
then you wouldnt want to do M+ with those people cause they are dumb
also what do you mean by high key
quasi iris
I’m guessing you got one bad group and you’re upset lol because that doesn’t happen
eager cobalt
I've been looking for m+'s for 30 minutes tonight and had 1 group tell me that so it's not a large sample
But it's still frustrating
pallid bluff
whats you io score
quasi iris
I’ve played Sin/Sub from the start and have 0 issues getting into 10s I also have an I.O of 1k so you should work on that if you haven’t. Can’t blame people for not inviting people who don’t know how to run high keys
somber otter
700
pallid bluff
i can literally get into any group i want at 1100
gloomy stump
Rogue has one of the best aoe for m+
pastel wasp
1100 is quite high atm
warm geode
hi , someone could tell me why this is such a diference between top gear and statWeights simulations ? ( top gear x stat w(weakly) x stat w(nightly)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4s6MZgeai4shFWkhJLZ283
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u9XTSRJYUtFzQ5exfzF3Xx
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ugCRXBCHHwVEC7zYKoHeSE
if im dumb, just let me know 😃
eager cobalt
Let me get my io
pallid bluff
if you are using the same gear and talents in all of those its just rng
eager cobalt
270 which I am going to guess is pretty low
pallid bluff
yeah thats REALLY low
quasi iris
Yeah I wouldn’t invite you to a 3 lol
safe matrix
top gear is probably applying enchants and stat weights isnt 🤷
eager cobalt
@warm geode It does say the error amount on the side, iirc it's 2%
pallid bluff
i wouldnt even consider you for a 8 even if you had 380 ilvl at 270
quasi iris
^^
eager cobalt
How is it calculated?
quasi iris
By running keys
eager cobalt
Some of my keys aren't in this?
pallid bluff
your best keys are weighted by their algorithm
slender hare
You can see in your io page
quasi iris
You didn’t get on the leader boards
safe matrix
oh top gear might be including the raid buff
pallid bluff
takes into account key level, how long it took, ect
slender hare
Also says that on your page, has to be top 500 I believe
eager cobalt
Yeah I am missing keys on the io score
sharp schooner
it's kind of a dumb metric but for some reason people love i t
quasi iris
Your key time has to place in top 500 on your server to count
eager cobalt
because I know that I've done Waycrest
pallid bluff
it will only be counted if its on the blizz M+ leaderboard
slender hare
It has to be top 500 of any of the members server, you can see the disclaimer on io
Doesn’t have to be yours
safe matrix
just get into a group with someone from a dead server
quasi iris
It’s not a dumb system it stops me from getting people like him with no experience with keys in my 10s lol...
eager cobalt
What a great score system