different armor sets for that I imagine?
#assassination
mortal basalt
mortal basalt
what do u run for raiding azerite traits wise
daring imp
what sims the most to me atm, 370 laser with 385/340 sb
sudden trench
@lone junco even tho dd sims higher for you, it is prob still not worth. None of the raid fights is designed for DD uptime to be worth. SS will give you more dmg 90% of the time in raid but will tell you that you sim lower.
somber moon
Why would you track Subterfuge when you know it's just 3 gcds
daring imp
to cast garrote on the very last milisecond of it
i'm a minmax bitch sry
also to know when not to cast if mobs are running to the tank
if some of them aren't on my range anymore
to ensure i don't accidentally cast one out of subterfuge
mortal basalt
why does raiding require so much haste and m+ doesnt?
north leaf
Longer fights
daring imp
m+ you deal with trash way more than boss
and trash fights aren't that long
more targets = mastery/crit value goes up
mortal basalt
Yeah I prob need to sim more multi target fights
merry elbow
in m+ you get energy from multi dotting so you dont need haste
daring imp
^
eternal wave
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
mint cairn
So whats a good opener for using MA with no SS traits? Would you still open with a garrote?
north leaf
@daring imp Ongbak, as someone who plays SS I want your opinion on something. For raid, the sims don't put SS over DD/AotT/LM. Then in M+ its the same thing for crit boosting traits / SoB. In your experience is this because of the sims being incorrect, or is this truly the case?
daring imp
the thing is, simming m+ is quite tricky because of the amount of mobs your tank will be pulling per pack and because you also have bosses that you most likely won't want to agro trash packs with it ( like people did with sub on low keys or m0's )
somber moon
Theres nothing else to open with as assassination, so yea Garrote
daring imp
when simming for trash packs on m+ i do 3~6 bosses for 40s~1min
i know the general rotation for single target won't suffer that much if i change my entire stats
tropic tulip
where can we get the apl to read through
daring imp
so spec'ing to kill trash quickly is generally better
if you sim some hectic add cleave for 3~5min you do not take restealths into account, and SS's good because of restealths
north leaf
@mint cairn I don't use SS and generally my opener is still garrote, though depending on number of targets I try to throw a subt buffed Rupture in there.
north leaf
I usually never do hectic add cleave for that reason
somber moon
Tooltip fixes?
daring imp
no clue lul
somber moon
Wait what slice and dice assassination lmao
north leaf
Make SnD great again
That would definitely put Slice n Dice a bit higher on my priority list, but I don't know... The energy returns would be pretty wild on ST fights
daring imp
if only snd would come back and affect our bleeds
grave pagoda
Do we have any kind of haste cap to aim for? or just pump iuts aslong as it sims highest?
daring imp
pump that as long as it sims highest
north leaf
Well that would be the unrivaled choice at that point. Does the instant proc of Deadly Poison generate energy?
heavy forge
@north leaf subt doesn't buff rupture?
daring imp
@north leaf no
mortal basalt
I have low single target dmg but my aoe is good do I just need more haste?
mellow fog
Should you maintain EP on vendetta even with 2-3 combo point envemenom ?
north leaf
@heavy forge You are correct, coffee is wearing off. Generally the idea for non SS openers should be G, mut, g, rupt
heavy forge
tfw 3 SS tho
mellow fog
True didn't think of the energy. Just forget the buff ?
fierce sluice
Is laser matrix crap outside of uldir? Or is it viable in m+
north leaf
Feels so good, but feels REAL bad when you have a tank who chain pulls M+ and doesn't let you restealth until the healer needs mana
lone junco
If tank won't let you restealth. Just leave.
tepid frost
Good evening, mateys. How exactly does Archive of the Titans work with sims? How does it account for the stacks you have gathered (the ones that increase your highest secondary stat) if at all? Or does it just ignore that?
north leaf
He's my tank though, I've adapted to running pure crit buff traits
lone junco
If they are guildy then yell at them.
limber lion
@tepid frost If you use Raidbots.com, they take into account all reorigination stacks you have. You can even set it to 0-10 yourself.
lone junco
Can still pull 10mobs and give a 3sec gap for stealth.
Pure crit is still good for FOK.
If you have zero restealth. Then try 3scent.
desert pelican
No point of chainpull if u run with rogue in group
north leaf
I was able to pick up 1 piece for SoB, but it replaces my 375 AotT
north leaf
source?
rain breach
Your
Assassination (Level 36)
Envenom
Eviscerate refreshes your Slice and Dice duration to its 5 combo point maximum.
ord does it for us refesh rupture?
arctic isle
no that has been in since beta
limber lion
Nevermind, still fucked.
fading spade
well. after 20 or so various level shrine keys i finally got a galecallers lol
so where in the opener do you pop this bad boy
rain breach
so atelast no real changes on the PTR for ASSA
arctic isle
unless ur class is fucked you will only get new traits
rain breach
seems they nerfed SS again oir this are the nerf we alread y got?
arctic isle
already in game
arctic isle
i doubt anyone can get to 30% crit
lethal swan
anyone have a garrote weakaura where the timer changes colors if its empowered
royal lantern
im at 24%crit, every single piece gives me crit right now
tropic tulip
pop trinkets with vendetta in opener
loud pilot
is assa guide @urban deltahold solid?
daring imp
yea
peak saffron
I have 28% crit in m+ gear
fading spade
@tropic tulip ty
north leaf
What would you guys say is a reasonable uptime for Elaborate Planning? Most of my raid logs are showing me at 50-65%
fading spade
i have a hard time with that on some fights as well
wowanalyzer is a good tool for that kind of stuff
north leaf
That's where I'm grabbing my numbers from 😄
north leaf
Is your downtime sitting at about 50% with 77% uptime?
sudden trench
north leaf
🤔 Well I have some work to do then.
sudden trench
its not perfect but gives you an idea
there are times when you do not use anything for about 5 sec
rain breach
hmm k so we arn't able to get taht hightb on crit atm
tepid frost
@limber lion Where do you change the stacks of Reorigination array? can't find the option on Raidbots (maybe I'm just blind). Do you have to change something in the string you get from Simulationcraft?
strange python
@sudden trench how do you see that information?
north leaf
@strange python Get your logs from raid, go here https://wowanalyzer.com paste the log link at the top and select your name. Then scroll down and boom, you've got it
strange python
@north leaf never knew this tool existed. Think i love you a little bit
north leaf
I raid lead. This is how I help my team improve 😃
vague portal
shrouded suffocation or twisting the knife
burnt mist
so if I do x3 garrote then vanish and x3 garrote again but with 3 target that didnt had garrote damage still get "bugged" or should be fine?
north leaf
The SS bug happens when you garrote outside of the subterfuge window
true aurora
You will be fine goose
burnt mist
k thanks 😄
strange python
Interesting hoq on my 99% and 100 for item level it tells me im shit
@north leaf i dont trust it :)
vestal wren
wowanalyzer did only support sub in legion
north leaf
It tells everyone they are shit. Shows you how to improve. It isn't a catch all for mistakes, but definitely can show you where you're improvement windows are
queen moth
Can someone Tell me how i Open packs in m+? Or more like how i do aoe?
strange python
It seems to not take pooling into account or understand how elaborate planning windows work
queen moth
Ä
vestal wren
it comes down to whoever maintains it
strange python
99.8% uptime on my dots. The rest i feel is just bullshit
north leaf
It also tells you that Battle pot of Intellect is the pot you should be using. So theres that
strange python
Lol
tepid frost
How do you change the stacks of Reorigination Array on Raidbots? I can't seem to find that option. Do you have to change something in the simulationcraft output or something?
strange python
@north leaf that made me smile
vestal wren
@tepid frost advanced options, there is a check box where you change simc version
if you tick it you get the array as a option
strange python
@vestal wren i feel drastically weak. 3 raid resets not a single azerite piece
woven night
Greetings
vestal wren
gear is a big factor
strange python
I hope my m10 cache or this reset coming will shine some light into this dying star
blissful dove
great system, azerite armor.
vestal wren
and you need to have luck^^
blissful dove
master assassins mantle was the last legendary I could possibly get for one of my loot specs in Legion
woven night
i play assassination rogue, right now my main focus is raiding and also mythic dungeons. My item level is at 346. I'm at Uldir Mythrax boss but from a few fights until this boss i have been told that i'm outputting low dps. Anyone here that plays sin spec at raids could tell me what build they are using, any particular gems and /or enchants?
strange python
First 2 weeks. 95-99s, 2 x 100 for bracket and last reset after ss nerf and no other pieces to rorate in i still wrecked but felt like i was a wet fish. If you get my drift
blissful dove
not really digging the waiting a week to get gloves in my cache system
strange python
@vestal wren indeed. I am jusr salty i wasnt lucky enough to loot replacements before they balanced it
blissful dove
That's going to happen a lot if they don't figure out the azerite availability and balancing
tepid frost
ah, finally found it. I really am blind. Thanks, mate @vestal wren
strange python
@woven night use simulationcraft addon with raidbots.com and pawn addon to find stat weights to optimise gear
blissful dove
Never know what's next
strange python
Read the guides in the pinned section of discord (top right, looks like a drawing pin)
Then practice your rotations and cds on a target dummy. And then practice on bosses whilst avoiding mechanics.
queen moth
Is there a Guide or video guide that covers m+ ? For example which dots to use when? In the ravenholdt Guide is nothing of that sort
vestal wren
also hope you dont get send through early on mother 😛
strange python
@vestal wren lol. I demanded in a very pleasant way to be left till last
No point sending a dot based class through early :)
@queen moth try get 3 x ss pieces, run crimson tempest. G,g,g ct then rupture and fok spam
north leaf
I'm going to have to fiddle with SS in M+, from what I've seen it isn't quite as effective as stacking crit traits
Unless you're running Scent of Blood, always CT first
Get that ticking on everything, then rupture stuff inbetween FoN spam
queen moth
Ok ty ❤
north leaf
420 haste, blaze it
strange python
I wish hidden blades was viable in m+
golden mulch
Fathoms still better than both rofl
north leaf
oh thats 10 seconds and 8 stacks. disregard
surreal rivet
is crimson tempest decent in keys?
icy iris
@surreal rivet the way to go this week and probably all other weeks
if tyrannical then u go PB
surreal rivet
k ill try it in this freehold
strange python
i hate crimson
tardy anchor
Hi guys, I am considering rolling a Rogue as a main. My main so far is warr, which is nice because I can queue up as a tank to normal, hc and mythic dungs and basicaly any pve activity that is not with a guild is very fast with almost no waiting time for me. And I don't mind tanking, actually I kinda enjoy it. But, just today I discovered like 2-3 dungeons have nice use for rogues. Here's a gate rogues can unlock to save some time, here you can stealth and chase a dog which stands near enemies, here you can cast that group stealth and just pass trash to the boss itself. And I imagine that I will discover more and more cool tricks and uses for rogues. So what I would like to know is, do you have it SIGNIFICANTELY harder to queue up and to find a group, thank any tank? I think I would enjoy playing rogue, I just don't know if I could handle the wait times for everything "dungeon finder" related... Any tips, info and knowledge on this will be highly appreciated 😃
strange python
Just have high rio score
lofty sand
at glance I thought it was a copypasta
manic stirrup
@daring imp how can you tell from your weakaura whether the damage bonus has expired? From stealth
strange python
DPS is oversaturated
north leaf
@manic stirrup If you aren't using a weak aura specifically for it change your stealth bar and your main bar slightly so you don't accidentally apply an additional garrote
somber moon
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
balmy perch
it would be nice if that fixed that
ebon bramble
small indie company
golden mulch
Q times are irrelevant bc once you reach the "endgame" you search for groups in the tool not with Qing
golden mulch
^ this guy raids
thick jacinth
that's really how it be sometimes lmfao
ember ermine
arctic isle
meh i only join groups with super high ilvl requirements
thick jacinth
I only pug on alts.
Like finding a guild that does alt runs these days
is so hard.
sorry finding an oceanic* guild that does alt runs these days is hard.
arctic isle
yeah alt runs are in most guilds
unless ur like still in a heroic prog guild right now
arctic isle
jst join content
thick jacinth
that guilds asking to flop before next tier LOL.
arctic isle
behind 16 hour guilds while raiding 40 btw
thick jacinth
that and I couldn't play rogue alongside ching tbh
chings garbo at rogue and he's the most geared oce player
triggered.
arctic isle
meh all the top streamers get carried somewhere
arctic isle
ching isnt
thick jacinth
when they aren't entertaining or good at the game
arctic isle
but he has been around for a long time
thick jacinth
that's more directed at quin than anyone else
ching is entertaining to a degree and i like the realness he has.
arctic isle
just like asmon
thick jacinth
but quins fuckin' annoying and trash
arctic isle
him and asmon bait reactions and it works
safe matrix
this convo -> #off-topic
safe matrix
doesnt relate to sin
thick jacinth
sorry sir
anyone got much prog on vectis?
feel like the fight sucks for melee when you're in your groups and the ad spawns on the other side.
chrome mirage
So hidden blades or crimson tempest for teeming?
royal lantern
cus poison bomb is so much more interactive
´´oh boy, a passive proc, thats interactive gameplay i love´´
opal dagger
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cold dragon
You guys using Overwhelming Power or better to stay away from it for most content?
amber arrow
@thick jacinth watch the timer and stack back up as the debuff is about to expire. U can get a lot if uptime on add even if its on the other side of boss
barren marsh
I think overwhelming is great
cold dragon
Yeah, just worried about losing stacks when taking damage
barren marsh
Also pain is the goat
I believe you lose stacks every 1 second too, but I think it’s good still. Highest simming 2nd trait
thick jacinth
thanks @amber arrow I might need to make a weakaura for the debuff alone because I can never tell the timer on the debuff unless it's on me.
cold dragon
Ill just give it a whirl then
velvet kernel
Someone mind taking a peek at my logs for tonight?
vestal wren
@limber dew my old guild send all balance druids through last and rogues middle group i dont expect common logic to apply to the average wow guild leader
velvet kernel
according to my guild rogues are amazing for the blobs
hybrid harness
they are if you play outlaw and they send more than 4 people through at a time
thick jacinth
utlaw
vestal wren
oh i should have specified that was for hc
north leaf
Step one: Be a raid lead. Step two: Follow step one
rich olive
How do you guys open on vectis?
G-R-G-Vendetta-Mut-Rup-Exsang- Mut-Envenom- Mut- Rupture on add -> Vanish -> G Add -> 2x G Vectis -> Envenom right?
mortal warren
basicly yes
bitter umbra
are you doing that with shrouded suff?
thick jacinth
only got 1x SS bc it's bad in raids now.
karmic ingot
Hey guys. I just got my first Galecaller's Boon. How do you guys typically use it with Assassination? Obviously I want it up for every Vendetta, which should be easy to set up. Do you guys hold Exsanguinate for 15 seconds to align with the trinket between Vendettas, or just use trinket and Exsang on CD independently?
gentle rapids
I delay exsang for trinket since it snapshots on your haste
strange python
is sub>sin still on M Fetid?
karmic ingot
Oh, I didn't realize it snapshotted, that's good to know.
Will keep me from raging if I have to move out of it lol.
thick jacinth
Look at logs tbh @strange python
unkempt belfry
Careful holding though for trinket, 15 seconds means every three held is a loss of an exsang in the fight.
tranquil dust
velvet kernel
ye i just am getting super unlucky with shoulders
thorn crater
exsa with nerfed SS? 😏
bright quartz
guys, sorry for interrupting your current conversation but i just run a sim with my rogue and i saw this
thorn crater
🤔
bright quartz
is that a raidbots/sim bug that there is an mutilate into evenom with 4 cp?
thorn crater
@bright quartz thats prolly a double crit mutilate giving 4 CPs
velvet kernel
^^
bright quartz
interesting^^
pastel vault
ya what's wrong with that sim? looks normal
bright quartz
i didnt know that mutilate is coded as a both hand strike^^. details only shows one mutilate all the time
random coyote
Maybe read what mutilate does?
bright quartz
good point
versed mica
Is sin dead after the SS nerf?
bright quartz
no it is still most played of all rogue speccs in m+ keys
versed mica
Sin was my go to spec for reliable dps when I get annoyed at my bad luck with outlaw
I hate sub with a passion
sweet sedge
i just started doing keys today.. i love assassination
strange python
yes mate we're joking
versed mica
Poison bomb not good enough for keys?
strange python
pb is bad for keys
thorn crater
meh i use it in tyrannical
strange python
wish fans of knives talent was viable
why is pb bad in keys? it procs pretty often for me
because crimson is simply better
sims more
for 3-4 packs
valid moss
rng proc vs controlled damage too
thorn crater
crimson puts u on top of aoe cleave
it shouldnt but it does
on high keys
topping dk and frost is pretty funny
strange python
3x SS puts me on top most of the time already, only thing that really beats me is a DH
yeah but maintaining 3rd poison
nah fam
thorn crater
honestly? did u see the new sim?
apparently archive rupture and 1 SS is better than x3 SS
strange python
can't get any uldir pieces to drop for me
trust me I want some archive
only other traits I have is 2x SB
valid moss
😨 know that feeling
strange python
@thorn crater I have all 3 traits on 3 different pieces actually
hold on
let me sim
thorn crater
its what herodamage shows
strange python
Also, you're taking for m+?
thorn crater
though
strange python
Oh
versed mica
@thorn crater where do you find that sim? I haven’t seen it
strange python
I've 370 archive, 355 SS, 340 rupture
valid moss
"when you clear 8/8hc and get shitty trinket that sims 200dps under fathoms" 
versed mica
Oh sorry, missed your previous message
thorn crater
of every trait
strange python
I'm 361, only good azerite piece I have is the 355 PVP one for SS, the other are just normal m0 pieces
thorn crater
mada mada dane
thorn crater
read what i wrote
then u will understand
the whole of it
each SB has a value of 4,2%
strange python
I tried simming with 2 SB and 1 SS and was doing less damage
thorn crater
single scent is 5,95 , archive 5,61 and 1 SS for the aoe 4,89
try 3 -5 bosses hectic cleave 40 seconds
strange python
how much difference in dps is there between CT and PB
thorn crater
on fortified a lot
thorn crater
but if u cant play CT dont bother talenting it
thorn crater
basically u pandemic CT every time on adds
it becomes a priority
over rup over anything else
thorn crater
3+
thorn crater
fuck rupture
thorn crater
its less dmg
strange python
if u have SS, you garrote x3 and then CT
thorn crater
then spam CT
thorn crater
its a lot of dmg
strange python
over envenom
thorn crater
and CT
strange python
and then do rupture
strange python
ye
thorn crater
when CT goes to 2 sec
strange python
prob only like 15 second ruptures?
thorn crater
ye
thorn crater
5
north leaf
Do you even bother with CT on boss fights?
north leaf
Noted
strange python
are u running 3x ss sang
thorn crater
x2 SS 1 370 scent
fallow estuary
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
thorn crater
@safe matrix question. for how long are we going to consider SS bugged and not working as intended? have htey admitted it?: cause if u vanish with a normal garrote on a target and start using empowered ones the normal one gets buffed up as well. doesnt that mean it works as intended?
370?
sth like that
floral pawn
does feint work for quaking?
civic palm
Should mitigate OTHER quaking though?
thorn crater
it hasnt for me
unkempt belfry
Feint works for me on quaking..
safe matrix
It'll be considered bugged until they change the behaviour
thorn crater
cant say for sure
safe matrix
if it wasnt bugged, it would be included in the tooltip
unkempt belfry
It's definitely a damage reduction to feint the quake
thorn crater
not if u have warriors not moving from bosses :S
having an excuse to move out and charge?
nahhh ill fuck us upo
strange python
well then stop playing with shitty players
unkempt belfry
Don't group with baddies? Lol
unkempt belfry
Get 4 other players that are at least competent then?
Friends list and communities
thorn crater
communities are tricky tbh
u need to be invited
or know a name
in order to join one
primal sigil
i ahve double ss and titans but my double dose blight borne and titans sims higher than my double ss and 1 titans
so i think its normal to sim higher
nimble cobalt
also does the laser matrix trait stack? and also does that sim feel low for my ilvl?
primal sigil
but thats ona 5 min fight on 2-3 mins my ss and titans is still higher, as is on aoe... so sticking to tht in m+
well im 362 i sim 14.4 without ss and 14.2 with so shrugs
nimble cobalt
wep ilvl? trinks?
strange python
I sim 14,5k at 364
copper hawk
Is it worth doing crimson on 2 mobs?
Or just keep garrote/rupture and envenom after that?
primal sigil
i use 370/360 and 350 plumage + dmf
daring imp
@manic stirrup well i have a big subterfuge icon
craggy needle
Can someone confirm for me that exsang snapshots? Someone telling me it doesn't.
daring imp
it snapshots on the current haste you have when you pop it
nimble cobalt
it does
copper hawk
I only have 1 trait SS what should my opener look like? Is it worth doing 3 point rupture before exsang??
The guide on site says to even with 1 trait but seems odd
civic palm
IIRC the opener in the guide refreshes the Opener Rupture before using Exsanguinate.
lone junco
Grg ventdetta mut mut r.
civic palm
Yarrr
lone junco
Exsang mut mut env . ..... vanish gg . . R
gilded oak
do you have to use vendetta before applying bleeds or do an existing bleed get boosted if you use vendetta afterwards?
north terrace
Its only one mut after vendetta
copper hawk
So even with 1 trait of SS I should follow the rotation exactly on guide?
I'm 341 ilvl with a 325 OH and doing only like 9k on m+ bosses...I feel like I should be doing more
civic palm
1 SS is strong enough to influence a change to the opener, yes.
cold dragon
Is the single target dps loss with Crimson Tempest not big enough to warrant poison bomb?
daring imp
seliathan/incarnated, the toppest of the top rogues, argues that CT more than makes up for the single target damage loss because you gain so much more time by killing trash faster @cold dragon
distant creek
guys which trait should I go for in M+ after the SS nerf?
cold flare
craggy raptor
I use 3 ss and love it still
unreal tide
master assassin a thing now with 0 SS traits?
distant creek
if i only go for 1 SS what are the others gonna be? atm its 1 SS 1 dagger in the back and 1 laser matrix
somber egret
I use 2xSS 1xlaser and sim ok I think for ilvl https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/coHzPw3UktWFB1iKpTQ3YW
manic stirrup
@daring imp thats exactly what Im looking for! Can you share the WA for me for subterfuge?
strange python
placid elbow
@somber egret ... you should be simming higher IMO.
placid elbow
Better stats itemization lol
Look at Miche's
364 at 14.5K, fucking insane.
tbh, i'm not sure how Miche's is so high haha
craggy raptor
I mean i sim 14.5 at 364 too
placid elbow
depends on your stats, my sim is with TB too. With Exsang, it's like 13.9K maybe, or a high 13.8K
craggy raptor
Pretty normal from rogues i've seen
placid elbow
from 360/362 to 364 is a 700dps jump?
could also be the azerite powers. My necklace is only lvl 20 lmao
placid elbow
I have something like 23%crit and 19% haste and like 23% mastery
somber egret
I’m 21% haste 20%crit
placid elbow
outside of uldir that is
unreal tide
still not sold on master assasin
strange python
traits?
placid elbow
whaaaa lol
unreal tide
Archivex2 and rezan
strange python
Hmm
placid elbow
Archive stacks, just not the stupid aray buff thing right?
strange python
yes
unreal tide
yeah
placid elbow
interesting
regardless, i need to level up my azerite necklace
i think that's where a lot of my DPS is missing
unreal tide
archive -355 archive -370 rezan - 385
placid elbow
whaaaaa
strange python
as long as u got first 2 traits
cold dragon
@daring imp Ty I'll look at his logs for more info
north terrace
Yeah, first two are all that count really
placid elbow
not sure then lol
north terrace
And archive stacks but honestly without reorg array its not amazing. Thats why it is listed so low in the trait stacking department
placid elbow
i feel like i should be simming higher
lone junco
Ilvl?
true aurora
X2 archive and 1 lazer trump all for me even outside of uldir
lone junco
@placid elbow I'm 349 13.3. So 360 should be around 14.3
daring imp
@manic stirrup gimme a sec real quick
quaint hawk
so I'm looking at making a weakaura that shows my current total garrotes and ruptures that are currently out, but before I do, does someone have one already?
thick jacinth
I'd be interested in a weakaura that like had the rupture icon and showed the total amount of agility gained via scent of blood.
might make it when I get home tbh
quaint hawk
oh nice thats perfect
https://i.imgur.com/OdHLWe3.gifv I was messing with timers but it might be easier to just have one stack
civic palm
I just need to replace some stuff in the LUA for Garrote real fast to make it not weird to read.
Will upload it in a second.
quaint hawk
I appreciate it my guy
arctic isle
is it not easier to just look at the enemies themselves
or does the wa tell u which target it is on and is clickable
visual token
I use icehud to track them on current target.
arctic isle
the default ui does it really well too
civic palm
This is much more complex than current target.
reef frigate
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
pastel wasp
!spec
prisma monolithBOT
All specs are good. Specific ones shine in specific areas.
Check the following resources for the facts:
Warcraft Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#class=Rogue
Raider.io: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict
civic palm
hold this for me
Multi-Target Tracker: Garrote - https://wago.io/ryvzVhSFm
Multi-Target Tracker: Rupture - https://wago.io/r1kOJrVt7
distant creek
++
daring imp
@civic palm oy, is there a way to make one exactly like that but only for empowered garrotes? @_@"
not for normal ones, only for emp ones
strange python
Yo
Thanks for that wa
Actually won't have to look for the small icons above npcs to see if garrotes up or not
civic palm
You should probably be tracking their duration and position regardless.
pretty simple to see
strange python
Well it'll be useful for empowered garrotes with SS
civic palm
There are better ways of showing the duration of EMP garrotes, just having a number doesn't do much.
hrm hrm hrm
civic palm
Sure.
civic palm
I know what you mean.
strange python
You can't apply 4th
copper hawk
What's better rezan or a 2nd trait for SS?
daring imp
@strange python probably it hit the low level dummies
i'm like a bazillion percent sure that's what happened
slender smelt
So can somebody pls clarify the aze traits for me? It is really confusing what to aim for. Im sitting at 1archive 2ss rn
Q1. Is 1SS mandatory? (When Not running 3SB )
Q2. Uldir traits still better outside of uldir?
frigid sleet
what type of content are you refering to
frigid sleet
for m+ you still want SS
cold dragon
So many top rogue parses with poison bomb in M+. I just dont know anymore
frigid sleet
scent of blood is fine aswel depending on your azerith pieces
raiding wise the uldir traits will prolly overcome your other ones, then again it kinda comes down to your differents azerith pieces
so sim it
slender smelt
So like 3SS for m+?
cold dragon
Raiding wise, the uldir traits will 100% over come your other ones at 5 stacks
slender smelt
Then SS is shit for patchwerk raid?
frigid sleet
its not shit but its not as strong as before, so other options are possible
cold dragon
according to bloodmallet, yes its worse than double dose/sharpened blades/Dagger in the back
slender smelt
Or do I maintain 1SS for cp
Ugh such confusion
Sim tells me to use blightborne
Wtf..
cold dragon
Yep, 1 SS is not very good according to my sims too
its only good with multi target dotting for me
slender smelt
We really need a portable azerite reforger
cold dragon
actually I just double checked, my 370 shoulders with Rez Fury do the same dps on 3 targets, so just gonna run 370 for the single target on bosses
golden mulch
i usually use 1 SS trait for the CP gain on raid ST
storm rock
So is SB the way to go now? I'm hearing mixed feelings about it
strange python
Might be a silly question, but I was wondering how people sim for M+ using raidbots. Something like patchwerk, 3-5 bosses, 1-2 minute fight length? Want to look at what gear to gun for since I'd like to focus mostly on M+
cold dragon
@golden mulch Do you have Azerite armor 30ilvl higher than the SS pieces?
@strange python Yeah I use it for that. 4 bosses/1 minute. For what its worth, the stat weights come out with the correct stats on top
strange python
Perfect, thanks man
craggy raptor
In what scenarios do we pool as assa?
golden mulch
for myth+ people sim 6T 40sec no buffs
thats the standard myth+ sim
no buffs is important as raidbuffs and BL fuck sims up a lot
strange python
been testing out CT and PB for m+
Guess i'll be sticking to PB since its barely a dps loss
golden mulch
if you play it right CT should be way ahead as even for ST PB is only a 2% gain if even
strange python
I hate CT
golden mulch
well why? too hard to play?
i couldnt play without. i miss it hard to not being able to press a hugh swirly aoe void after tripple garrote 😄
proven moth
Master assasin is viable? it sims better for me 🤔
crisp hollow
on vectis M, should i generally be looking to put all dots on the add and switching back to boss or try and time dots on boss to hardswap on add?
crisp hollow
we don't struggle with cleave/swapping compositionally but yeah i guess i'll follow the priority
proven moth
yeah sims made me swap SS gear for uldir's D:
crisp hollow
is 17s a sufficient window to poison blade it if its up or just hold (implying it dies at an ideal time frame)
crisp hollow
yes toxic blade sorry lol
exotic glen
add respawns every 25 seconds
toxic blade CD is 25 seconds
ill let you guess if you should hold it or not
crisp hollow
okay sounds good 😃 thanks!
exotic glen
np
crisp hollow
wait but does the timing get thrown off at all with the initial spawn because toxic blade is a tiny bit delayed in the opener
or is that 2ish seconds negligible in practice?
exotic glen
just hold it for first spawn
chilly apex
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Do my azerite traits stack?
The damage part of azerite Stacks.
Other components can be assumed to stack however with some exceptions and limitations.
You can check https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/1t-t22-assassination for estimations.
little temple
Has SS stacking been nerfed recently?
golden mulch
What is going on with the herodmg sims?
Marked for death tripple sharpened blade best for dungeons???
hollow stone
Mfd is always strong if used properly. But vigor is just so easy and nice
And beautiful to see
zinc skiff
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
paper lichen
can someone tell me how FoK generates combo points? feels random
spice surge
granite berry
Is there a proper time to use Crimson Tempest in m+? Like is it only worth using if there's at least a certain number of mobs or just any 2+ cleave?
supple compass
do you still need rep reqs for void elves
pulsar ledge
Yes @supple compass
safe matrix
@supple compass you dont need to ask that in every channel
and yes, you need argussian reach rep to unlock them
meager quarry
SS bug still a thing were it gets rid of the buff? havent played my rogue since the nerf
daring imp
@golden mulch dg sims are hard to do exactly
@granite berry 3+ pop it instead of envenom
granite berry
so not on ST or 2?
strange python
Are we better off just stacking double dose with the SS Nerf?
chilly apex
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Do my azerite traits stack?
The damage part of azerite Stacks.
Other components can be assumed to stack however with some exceptions and limitations.
You can check https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/1t-t22-assassination for estimations.
slim sand
Are you dudes rocking Iron Wire or Prey on the Weak for M+?
slim sand
I am right now, it feels pretty good at the very least in pug groups with no voice comms
lost horizon
It's passive, solid default
I could see prey being better in some situations though
slim sand
Prey might be better on a +10 for bursting down the Infested
dark token
Iron wire is beast
Infested is a joke tbh
We need a new affix already
It's so boring
slim sand
Is it easy? No one in my guild wants to run a 10 because they say it's too hard.
My guild isn't really hardcore or anything though
dark token
That's cause this week is cancer overtuned not because infested is hard
slim sand
Highest I've done is a +9
safe matrix
tbh the infested part isnt the reason a +10 could be considered hard
slim sand
Yeah fuck this week, but they were complaining the first two weeks too
safe matrix
infested itself is really easy to deal with
slim sand
It's just one mob with Infested right, then you burst it down and kill the worms?
dark token
I've never once though wow infested makes this dungeon hard
slim sand
You're probably a hell of a lot better than my guild and I at least, Lol.
dark token
It's either tyrannical boss or sanguine or teeming making it hard
Some other affix
Infested just adds like +10s per pack
Super boring affix
slim sand
The point of it is we get a new one per M+ season, right?
sweet sedge
how do you guys sim yourself with diff talent builds? you just put in all of the possible builds you might run and sim it all at once?
lost horizon
Yeah it just slows down the pace
dark token
Yeah that's way too long kmo
I bet the next one is a fish randomly appears and mind controls one member of your party
slim sand
Infishted
dark token
^
pallid bluff
nah next seasonal is going to be exaclty the same as infested but instead of healing the mobs will just do more damage or some shit
grim wolf
how's toxic blade for m+ vs exang? says i sim higher as TB now, are teh stat weights any different?
plain moon
Is SS really so bad on an equal item level piece blightborne infusion sims higher than a single SS for every type of fight?
lone junco
Tb is pretty bad in m+. Everything is aoe.
lost horizon
Exsang can actually be useful on a decent size trash pack too, unlike TB
lost horizon
It's also prio dmg without having to waste CP on env when you could CT
lone junco
Tb requires contact. Exang could rip and go.
lost horizon
There's honestly a ton of benefit to exsang over TB in M+
lone junco
I love it tbh. And the 1t 15sec is real.
old verge
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
rain breach
but what is exsang worth without 3SS or only with 1 SS
lone junco
Exang doubles the bleed tick rate on a poisoned target.
And also. Why aren't you running 3ss in m+
strange python
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
elfin fossil
dark token
SS is good but so is archive, in m+ if you dont wipe and have a good group you maintain 18+ stacks the whole dg
id say 15 ilvl yeah SS is better but more than that nah
dapper moat
Yeah i have 3x 340 ss items but im running mythics wit 1xss and 2x archieve, because both archieves are 355 and sims little higher. Not sure though, shoud i just go 2xss instead, because i like to ss garrotte much and use vanish always even on trash packs that wont die on first ss garrottes.
high goblet
tfw master assassin sims higher
gloomy stump
Wait are they nerfing SS again on 8.1?
sharp schooner
no
gloomy stump
Shrouded Suffocation Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 additional Combo Points and deals 73 additional damage. 39 additional damage.
sharp schooner
gloomy stump
Oh right makes sense. Ty
lime panther
So we still running triple ss for m+ ? then w.e sims highest for raids?
chilly obsidian
Ye
iron prism
@sharp schooner thanks for stating that, my apologies for the next two dozen times you have to say it in coming days
Sub seems to be performing really well too, but outlaw isn’t keeping up since nerfs
kind crater
Hey ya'll, is there any up to date list of azerite traits to keep an eye out for (for either M+ or raid)? I know Shrouded and LM were nerfed recently but they're still the top two recommended by the guide.
steep obsidian
they are still good even after nerf
fathom echo
anyone know where you put TB in the SS opener
Garrote>Rupture
Garrote>Vendetta>Mutilate>Rupture
Mutilate till 4+ combo points>Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points>Envenom
Vanish when Garrote runs out
Garrote>Garrote
verbal hemlock
Right after vendetta
fathom echo
ty
verbal hemlock
Also don't reapply rupture, just start envenoming
fathom echo
ah i was going off the ravenholdt site guide is that wrong?
cold meteor
No but Sim is the best you can have
sharp schooner
i mean the guide says to TB after vendetta
fathom echo
ah i was looking at the wrong SS opener 
tulip willow
whats the best to play in mplus
speaking very generally
currently have 2ss and 1 udir trate
rain tree
I'm a dunce, Kidney shot and Cheap shot share the same stun
Nearly level 100 and i did not realise that cheap shot will affect the effectiveness and duration of kidney shot
verbal hemlock
All stuns are on diminishing return
gloomy stump
@rain tree ye they changed that in cataclysm. Got tp dump down the game for the dumb playerbase
verbal hemlock
So even other classes stuns now too
rain tree
I have only been playing for roughly 2 months, I have a 120 warrior with an Ilvl 344, and now I'm playing as a rogue, because it seems fun to scare people with the sap
torn wind
so im looking through a lot of rogues in m+ currently and theyre all still running ssx3 in m+ this week - is that a case of them not bothering to farm azerite armor or should i not trust bloodmallet/herodamage for which traits are simming the highest?
gloomy stump
You could stun a player for 10 seconds then blind, sap for 20 and stun again for 8
3x ss is best for m+ more add dmg
rain tree
Btw when it comes to artifact weapons, which LOOKS the best
torn wind
even in a fight like fetid devourer mythic/heroic im seeing like 10% of rogues running sharpened blades
rain tree
because kingslayers look awesome
torn wind
it's either full uldir traits (which makes sense) or a mix of uldir + ss traits
gloomy stump
Bloodmallet has it on the page man. 3x sharpened blades is best thats why. And the uldir traits are only good in uldir with aray active
novel lake
is there a spot with 6 training dummies or even 8 ?
solid nova
@novel lake 1 channel is enough 😄
novel lake
haha, ok, thought all those guys are still sleeping xD
torn wind
it's just odd that out of 38 rogues that killed mythic fetid devourer this week, theres a total of one sharpened blades trait
so im just trying to figure out if this is a case of them not bothering to get new azerite armor or something else
solid nova
@novel lake https://www.wowhead.com/npc=31144/training-dummy Although they wont all be raiding dummies etc.
And ofc, theres the class hall in Dala
novel lake
cheers, thx
proven ice
Sharpend blades isn't that great.
If you're using herodamage, consider a 2 stack the max
because you need at least 1 array
torn wind
right, it still puts it at 1320 vs ssx2 at 980 - i imagine it's gotta be just a case of them not bothering with getting sharpened blades
torn wind
higher ilvl on the 2Xss?
gloomy stump
If its 370+ it doesnt matter what trait it is. Its better than the 340 you can "farm"
Its not like you can choose what azerite trait you get
astral sundial
@torn wind no, same IL
torn wind
interesting, i wonder how much something like haste affects it
gloomy stump
Garrote 3 targerts then tempest
jolly notch
is shrouded suffocation getting nerfed on ptr? wtf
fathom echo
how many targets do you apply rupture to before you start FoK then Env
terse bone
pretty sure it is just a tooltip update and not a nerf
jolly notch
well wasnt the nerf a 40% nerf?
proper igloo
dont you want to get the ct off while in stealth?
terse bone
yes and that was like 2 weeks ago
jolly notch
from 39/73 doesn't = .4 though
jolly notch
oh fair enough
gloomy stump
@proper igloo what for?
honest field
Hey every1 ST and Crimson Tempest with Executioneer. Is it worth or not?
dark token
CT is only worth on 2+ targets
static tapir
I Go 3x garotte, ct, Start fok for cp and rupt all targets
honest field
Thanks
static tapir
Refreshing ct < 2sec
dark token
do <3 sec for >5 targets
strange python
I thought greater than 5 targets you just FoK spam CT
static tapir
But how should i refresh garotte, overwrite 1 of the empowered at 6 sec to have it ready when the other empowered runs out?
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
strange python
yup
am i seeing correctly that they buffed poisoned knife ?
on ptr
or is that old buff
north spruce
is the aura damage/healing changes new nerfs or just from previous hotfixes? (6% to outlaw, 7% to sub)
north spruce
👍
vestal abyss
Am I right in saying that on taloc the first vendetta is on pull and the second is at the end of the elevator?
weak pine
Depends really
wise whale
elevator starts az 60& and last for 70 sec
weak pine
If your comp can't get the boss down to transition in 2 mins then might as well use it before
Any other case use at the end of ride
wise whale
it also edepends on total kill time if you can not get a 3rd vendette use your second when your parts lusts
party
weak pine
Lust should be either on pull or at the end of elevator anyways
mild raptor
I recently switch to Assassination and there are a few things I am unclear on. I checked the guide and pins and am not able to find any in-depth information on EP. Should I be trying to maintain the buff at the cost of 3 CP Envenoms? Is it worth clipping the duration of EP to use an Envenom within the EP buff? Should I not worry about it and just focus on not clipping the Envenom buff?
dark token
you clip it when you can
use only 4+ envenoms dont maintain it over everything else you wont have enough energy
sin is about pooling energy when you have nothing to do so you can keep clipping EP
or perfectly refresh dots
mild raptor
That's what I've been doing. I toyed around with 3 CP finishers, but wasn't sure if that was the best way to go about it.
civic palm
Clipping EP during TB is pretty dope 👌
dark token
using TB 
strange python
what does EP stand for? it's the Envenom buff?
civic palm
Using your best SIM'd talents with your best SIM'd traits. :stupidface:
dark token
exsang if ur a man
strange python
Envenom Poison maybe?
strange python
ah thank you
wise whale
its a talent
dark token
idk what you tb guys are smoking no matter what i try to do esang is always quite a bit ahead of tb in sims
¯_(ツ)_/¯
and feels better to play
mild raptor
I feel like I'm having issues with CP generation. My haste is pretty high but my crit is lacking.
wise whale
for me tb sims higher
and i also finish higher on 10 out of 10 5min dummy tests
or lets say 8 out of 10
playing MP of cause
mild raptor
I'm assuming using a 3 CP Envenom to clip the EP buff would be worth it if you were at the tail end of your TB buff and wouldn't be able to fit another Mutilate in before TB expires.
slender hare
Does MP realler sim higher than EP for you? it has always been EP for me during bfa
dark token
dont try to minmax theorycraft if you havent got the normal rotation down :p
devout jolt
What level of AGI stacks does simming take into mind when sim Archive trait gear?
dark token
1 to 20
wise whale
yes it does sim higher
devout jolt
ah so it changes
wise whale
i also like the vanish, tb, env, 30stack poisoned knife crit kombo
pseudo hamlet
It's so annoying I'm not even using it thought it sims higher(like 0,5% upgrade). It's just not worth tracking the stacks and clicking additional button for such a miserable difference in DPS.
weak pine
Just get a WA for it and press it on 30
I'd like to get a 3x SB at 370+ just for luls
Actually it might even be bis on vectis, since generally the add is hard to kill before 2nd cast, especially on mythic
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
tardy narwhal
The SS Garrote bug, is it only for single target or is it bugged if i apply 3 ss garrote to different targets and then 1 regular to another target?
safe matrix
it doesnt really affect st
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
safe matrix
its basically whenever you apply a new garrote all your active ones lose the SS buff
so you need multiple active garrotes for it to happen
tardy narwhal
Well that sucks
strange python
@safe matrix are you sure it's only the tooltips though because i can see assa spells in here
https://i.imgur.com/mx0Q8Yk.png
man this is so ambiguous
strange python
i blame blizz, only time will tell
arctic isle
omfg ur back
civic palm
That seems silly.
arctic isle
day 2 of crying
civic palm
Just Day 2?
strange python
this is some clown shit, if i was a dev and my work was projecting like this i would just quit quite frankly
arctic isle
bro none of this is done by blizzard
lilac fern
Where is that screenshot from?
strange python
mmo-champion
lilac fern
Yes, but im there rn and cant find it
strange python
and wowhead has the same entries under the same sections
civic palm
Humorous.
strange python
again we see assa spells invovled into the wrong sections, matching with unheard numbers before (nerfs) https://i.imgur.com/vspKGmv.png
solid nova
@arctic isle Again for the countless time of telling you. You don't need to insult people you don't agree with.
If you cant contribute without insulting someone, then dont contribute at all.
solid nova
Your name is cropping up more and more. Knock it off. You've had enough warnings and mutes to know how to conduct yourself around here.
It's becoming tedious to continually tell you
arctic isle
im being serious
solid nova
So am i.
arctic isle
in what world is calling someone ignorant an insult
strange python
excuse me princess but a startup would pull better tuning than this garbo
desert hazel
Saying someone is ignorant on a subject is not a insult, everyone just takes the word ignorant and thinks a insult
civic palm
@strange python Are you seriously insinuating that Blizzard is in charge of 3rd Party Datamining and that these values are clearly not from a nerf that has already happened?
arctic isle
exactly davy
high ingot
just DM the mod about it and stop this drama in here?
solid nova
As soon as someone posts you dont agree with, you're eager to share your opinions on a continual basis, regardless of what it entails. Its deliberately disrupting spec channels.
Knock it off.
arctic isle
i mean u werent here last night
it was the same conbo
between me and him
hes just doing it again
fishing
solid nova
Doesnt mean its acceptable. And again, you shouldnt need to be continual told.
The conversation is over.
arctic isle
my bad for thinking ignorant wasnt an insult lul
solid nova
Np
arctic isle
ur ignorant
strange python
@civic palm not really but apparently something doesn't add up and it's quite evident undocumented changes happened already or will happen
solid nova
And your continual disregard for the rules will only shorten your stay here
Your call
civic palm
They're old changes, that were documented. Datamining is not accurate once servers come up as there is no telling where that data is coming from.
strange python
how do you explain both sites made the same "mistake" to include assa spells under wrong specs
strange python
can you stop babbling about what is lost and won and actually step up with facts instead
civic palm
Because they can't not make the mistake, as it's not a mistake on their end, they're just scrubbing data + timeline + patch meta data.
and the old stuff shows up as "new" even though it's old.
high ingot
On the topic of assassination: Currently progressing on hc ghuun and I feel more dmg in p2 would really help smoothen our tries. Do you guys think it's a good call to delay first vendetta until ghuun becomes targetable? Should be close but I think most p2s are 2min from the start to the first beam. too risky or worth it?
civic palm
Because they don't filter shit that has happened already for fear of missing things.
desert hazel
@high ingot first big worm should die to beam so no
shrewd night
@high ingot worms aren't to be touched at all tho
high ingot
bad wording. I meant ghuun with "big worm"
civic palm
The datamining is not composed of facts either. > _>"