You vanish to refresh the first garrote
#assassination
undone cairn
supple lagoon
lol
pseudo finch
dont u just waste a vanish then ?
undone cairn
During first vendetta
supple lagoon
i guess you're right
onyx wind
Ay, now you know atleeast @supple lagoon
undone cairn
You're missing out on a vanish monkas
supple lagoon
that makes so much sense im an idiot T-T
silk carbon
vanish has a 2min cd
why would yu need to save it
should press everythin on cd after opener
save nothing
quasi herald
@knotty storm Assassination needs to pool energy. At first glance it makes the spec slow. But when you're playing, I personally feel like it's a mechanic you do and it's purposeful. And not something like frost dk BoS you just do it once every 2 min and then you just have down time.
silk carbon
should only pool energy by mistake aka 100+ energy 4 cp and tb just came off cd
unless youre talking about something else
you arent supposed to pool or save anything
onyx wind
??
knotty storm
quasi herald
By pooling I just mean you save up energy before envenom. Instead of button smashing and deplete your energy all the time. Which is basically what frost dk does when Bos is down.
silk carbon
I was told that is the way to play assa
iron pelican
more just about uptime on your EP
silk carbon
Everythin on cd as soon as its off and dont bother with pooling unless it happened organically
dont wait for cds for pooling or something like that
onyx wind
Youree right
But also wrong
You pool as cd's come up
You dont wait with cd's to pool
silk carbon
yeah thats what i ment with organically
delicate root
Pretty sure the simc apl pools
onyx wind
Most (good) people pool
quasi herald
Well, you do need to pool energy for mut after envenom. Doesn't mean you cap energy. You don't cap energy at any given time.
strange python
If my statweights are
2.00 Haste
1.56 Crit
should i double quick enchant?
strange python
Okay wasn't sure if it was because of stat priority changing with my more stats or what ty
onyx wind
I dont understand what you mean
strange python
like obviously if i get a buff of quick at that point my stat priority will be diff for the time of that buff
strange python
Yeah i understand now ty ๐
chilly oasis
do you use CT in fortified+teemin instead of PB?
onyx wind
yes
chilly oasis
but like, energy struggle
pseudo finch
worth using PB in kings rest imo
raw oracle
what pots is being used for dmg
raw oracle
i see, thanks
swift elm
hey guys, i have 385 helmet with DitB and 370 Chest with AotT (and which also happen to have SS trait). my shoulder however are still only 340. i happen to have some with SS trait on it. should i keep them with only one trait, should i reroll my chest for SS too or should i get another trait on my shoulders solo? (have ID on everything except m0 :/ ) im asking for m+
ember ermine
@onyx wind you still doing 3x SB?
sinful lotus
@onyx wind how many SS traits and what IL?
sinful lotus
Ah ok, so 2 then, but you also have a 385. Would you still be running SS if you only had access to 340 versions?
sinful lotus
Interesting. Do you have any DD traits?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
outer pivot
!wa
flint ruin
Hey, just wanted to ask if there is a any difference in stat prio between the EP+Exsg and MA+Toxic Blade build in terms of SingleTarget?
civic palm
Not really.
warm hatch
is there a guide to like how to properly open up on 3-4 targets say in M+
like i get the stealth> garrote 3x diff mobs> rupture
but then is it better to spam FoK and put 2 5x CP ruptures on the other 2
or is it better to just pop vendetta and go sorta of ST on the prio target
(with SS)
brave gyro
I like Afenar's WA's tbh. they are clean af. Especially with the latest update
desert pelican
Whats the point? St if u need to kill 1 target, rapture more if u can cleave. Anyway rapture around and than st did more dmg if pack live through all rapture dmg
@warm hatch
brave gyro
Especially with stuff like shadow dance @daring imp
daring imp
i've actually build my own wa but couldn't part ways with the combo bar he uses on his, makes me not eyeball that much
thin oriole
It is not rapture....
fathom echo
anyone know if its better running master assassin over subterfuge now , hero damage and raidbots showing it sims higher
chrome ledge
Think its better for a pure patchwerk fight but as soon as there is an add i guess subterfuge pulls ahead
onyx wind
Depeends mostly on wheeether u have SS
if you do, always take sub
if you dont, then dont take it
fathom echo
isnt it garbo now
daring imp
@fathom echo prolly gets better if you have no SS
when iw as using 1 it was still slightly higher than subterfuge
fathom echo
im guessing its only worth using SS if you have x 3
winter gale
If talented into EP+MA is this rotation ok : Garrote/Mutilate/Rupture/Mutilate/Vendetta/TB/Envenom/Vanish/Muti/Envenom/Muti/Envenom...
civic palm
It's worth using SS if it's better than what you had previously.
fathom echo
using 3 DDs atm
winter gale
@civic palm what do u think? ^
This one is similar or excatly like Legion with mantle
civic palm
The rotation is in the APL and seems fine.
sudden trench
@fathom echo how you finding dd
civic palm
and as far as it looks it doesn't seem like the written believes it's worth using TB before Vanish>ENV
But there might be some optimizations to find there as there is not much in #tc-research about Master Assassin.
fathom echo
@sudden trench its like ~7% of my damage its not bad
sudden trench
ye, I dont like dd. Get so much more dmg from SS due to how the fights are desighned
civic palm
What does ENV before Vanish do for you other than make you have a 50% lesser chance of critting the ENV?
fathom echo
does the master assassin buff affect rupture
winter gale
Yes, endeed
winter gale
Vanish Envenom it is. I skipped thinking about Envenom Crit and focused my Vanish to crit next mutilates ๐
Stupid me
This was only as I remembered from Legion but made a mistake there.
Thank you @civic palm
civic palm
It will be a continued thing.
fathom echo
is there a link somewhere to the mantle opener
civic palm
No.
Also it looks like on average if you Vanish+ENV and have the NRG you should get 2/3 ENV @ the enhanced crit rate.
civic palm
yikes
glacial steppe
my guild is h o l d i n g m e b a c k
civic palm
Mayyyyyyybe.
onyx wind
what aree decent logs
vapid lagoon
so sometimes i vanish and then stealth just breaks for seemingly no reason
subterfuge doesnt even pop and vanish is on cd
any1 know how to avoid that
stoic pelican
is there any discord or forum for PvP rogue?
stoic pelican
yeah tnx ๐
civic palm
What's your ping @vapid lagoon
vapid lagoon
50
civic palm
That makes no sense.
onyx wind
Wheree has it happened?
vapid lagoon
maybe one in like, 20 vanishes it happens
just happened on a freehold against harlan
civic palm
If you are Vanishing and not seeing the Subterfuge buff then you are not entering stealth.
For w/e reason.
daring imp
@vapid lagoon i never noticed that happening
civic palm
It's because it doesn't.
You'd have to use an ability removing you from stealth .1 seconds after pressing vanish.
daring imp
you sure you just got into subterfuge but didn't have energy to cast skills?
civic palm
Probably within a server-tick.
vapid lagoon
i woulda noticed if i was in subterfuge
civic palm
If you are hitting Vanish and not getting Subterfuge I do not know what to tell you, Mr. Flash.
civic palm
actually
I think if you Vanish and do not ATTACK out of stealth Subterfuge does not proc.
onyx wind
I think ur wrong
civic palm
There's no reason to slow down you're not that fast.
vapid lagoon
my dude if u havent had the problem
good for u
but i dunno why ur telling me what to do if ur not
night cypress
does raidbots factor reorigin in?
vapid lagoon
yeah it does
onyx wind
Also, the problem happens if you use an ability
On your normal bar
before your steealth bar updates
night cypress
does it just assume 10? or?
vapid lagoon
u can adjust it in the sim settings
onyx wind
Like if youre playing subtlety and you vanish-> backstab
civic palm
What button are you pressing that you cannot use in Stealth as ASSASSINATION?
onyx wind
what
civic palm
There's no ability delay for SIN because we do not need to wait to use Shadowstrike due to the bar stance rotating.
There's no delay to entering stealth outside of it being server-side.
daring imp
i think he meant a garrote right before going into vanish or something like that
so, no empowered
civic palm
If you hit Vanish before, you get SUB, unless there's a bug or lag.
There's no delay to your character state entering stealth.
fathom echo
anyone know where i should fit TB into this Garrote>Mutilate>Rupture>Mutilate>Vendetta>Envenom>Mutilate>Vanish>Envenom>Mutilate>Envenom
civic palm
before Vanish...
limber lion
There is active trinkets that remove you from stealth but do not proc subterfuge. So if you're using galecaller's boon, make sure to do that after breaking stealth with an abilitym
onyx wind
@limber lion That might actually be it
Using galecaller out of stealth doesnt give me subterfuge
just tested
vapid lagoon
OH
civic palm
You should still get SUB for being in combat and entering Stealth though.
vapid lagoon
thanks so much man
limber lion
You're welcome.
civic palm
That sounds buggly wuggly.
vapid lagoon
someone with a solution instead of trying to tell me a problem doesnt exist
sinful lotus
Don't you use TB before Vanish? Unless you're using MA? Garrote>Mutilate>Rupture>Mutilate>Vendetta (TB no MA)>Envenom>Mutilate>Vanish (TB if MA)>Envenom>Mutilate>Envenom
?
civic palm
If you are on a dummy macroing Vanish ~> GC might break stealth and not grant SUB
or a dungeon, possibly.
onyx wind
It doeeesnt give me sub
civic palm
Where and When?
vapid lagoon
my key for galecallers was my in stealth garrote key
onyx wind
From stealth or when used with vanish
vapid lagoon
pretty easy fix
civic palm
haha
limber lion
It's reproducible 100% of the time. Just don't use galecaller's in stealth or after vanish, quite simple.
limber lion
No worries, happy to help.
onyx wind
Is there any way to not get de-stealthed in WM
With the worms getting pulleed
LOS doesnt work
civic palm
Not that I fucking know of.
onyx wind
How do they even codee a bug like that
civic palm
Not sure it's a bug.
onyx wind
Pretty sure its not intended
civic palm
Unless it is intended to just be as annoying as possible.
onyx wind
Feels like a lot of 'features' in BFA are like that
civic palm
There is sense to be made from forcing people into combat and destealthing, mostly the removal of cheese.
onyx wind
Most packs dont put you in combat when theyre pulled
Which is why you can often restealth after finishing off a pack
Even when tanks chainpull
civic palm
That's rather presumptive of you.
onyx wind
Obviously
Logically speaking, why would you make one single mob special when it comes to combat
You can still skip it with stealth
civic palm
Because they have a continuing annoyance with re-infesting.
and if you could stealth > shroud the group to just disregard them entirely.
That's maybe not OK?
onyx wind
Other mobs which infeest you dont have that feature
civic palm
and a lot of those deal damage when they come out of you.
onyx wind
When you haveee the debuff on you, you take dot dmg
and get put out of stealth
That makes sense
But wheen you pull theem, why would they get you out of stealth
civic palm
On pull I have 0 fucking idea. Might have something to do with how the AI functions after they burst and retarget demanding some hardcoding there due to their fucking spaghetti.
๐ ๐
But that is a streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch.
civic palm
It's been around forever IIRC, not sure if it would be changed, of if it's possible.
onyx wind
It has?
civic palm
Is there anything else that acts like this?
For as long as I can remember the worms have been dumb.
civic palm
Might have been just a phase in Beta though I didn't play all of it.
onyx wind
We're playing beta right now
onyx wind
The launch wasnt as bad as some other expac launches
But the amount of bugs and tuning is just insanee
civic palm
There were some serious oversights here but many of them could not have been seen without having a soft-launch or something.
Even then it would require a binary account copy to find those bugs.
early Legion balancing was worse IMO.
Especially for certain specs like Outlaw.
civic palm
The fucking, item level rewards and shit, they probably should have caught those.
onyx wind
Nerfing a trait forces peeople to go get new items
civic palm
Nerfing a trait in Legion required you to stop playing that spec.
Required you to spend an entire level reinvesting because a trait was dead.
"dead"
It still have value but some traits were nerfed very dramatically.
Sometimes multiple times even.
Some OTL traits were 10x the value of the next best trait.
They obviously couldn't stay that way.
civic palm
This recent tuning has been a clean surgery my Legion launch standards.
onyx wind
But how can you oveershoot it by that much
civic palm
Well.
This isn't a console launch where the code is on the disk and done on launch.
Numerical changes can be made the night before launch.
So for as much as the game might change months after launch, the changes tend to be much more frequent in the pre-launch phase.
Especially when there is something sticky like Exsanguinate that had its' numbers yo-yo'd for a long time .
seemsFine
onyx wind
They should hire someone to simulate stuff
civic palm
That clearly isn't OK.
onyx wind
Because it seems like they arent
civic palm
Depends, they don't have weeks of time to SIM after every change.
onyx wind
If they had a dedicated person/team for simulating and coming up with builds
civic palm
Most of the time simple math can find you the correct answer.
civic palm
Mostly because 1 person isn't going to find shit compared to 1 million.
onyx wind
Just by using raidbots
civic palm
But things like Exsanguinate were handled well enough that there wasn't an issue at launch.
onyx wind
Or the team behind herodamage or bloodmallet
civic palm
I...
onyx wind
would be able to figure out the optimal spec/talents
civic palm
you're thinking very lightly of a complex issue.
onyx wind
in less than 3 hours
civic palm
For instance.
Our seemingly smarter than Blizzard TCer's didn't think to double Garrote the entire time Shrouded Suffocation existed.
It took a suggestion ~2 weeks after launch for it to be a thing.
Mostly because...
TCing in Beta is a shit idea.
of the highest degree.
onyx wind
opener depends on traits
zealous scarab
ok thanks
civic palm
If you're running SB you might want to jump off a cliff.
zealous scarab
ye not running SB ๐
civic palm
I do wish Blizz would release their internal APL's however.
compact bolt
Do you think its stronger to lose the agility going down from 370->340/355 for SS instead of 'meh' traits
winter gale
My haste simm higher than Agility atm. I supose thats not good? I have some lower ilvl haste items but sim shows what I am wearing is bis.
civic palm
It's more-than-likely not worth it in raids. SIM your traits to get a better answer for that.
compact bolt
At work and cant remember but 1 was crit generic, 1 was rezans generic (best according to my sims)
civic palm
I have 20% haste atm and it's that high.
winter gale
And 20%crit
civic palm
and yeah in M+ Haste is not good past ~10%.
onyx wind
Wouldnt worry about stats too much
if it has haste/crit its good
and gems can be either haste/crit
night cypress
subterfuge still sims highest even without ss...i'm not sure i understand
civic palm
It can, SIM operates with a .4% margin of error.
So if the difference is under that, it's a tossup.
Wonder what idiocy I will wake up to today.
sinful lotus
@onyx wind So basically there's not reason to be running Subt over MA if you have zero SS equipped? No matter what.
no*
desert pelican
Myth+ subt anyway better, nope?
compact bolt
Is there setting in raidbots for m+ type scenarios? Like is that hectic add cleave for a short timer?
outer acorn
for m+ you always go subterfuge
onyx wind
@sinful lotus Basically yeah
civic palm
The primary issue with the Raidbots/APL and M+ is restealthing.
daring imp
i'd say 4~6 bosses ~40s
civic palm
Which it does not do/does poorly.
sinful lotus
@onyx wind Alright cool thanks ๐
civic palm
So SS is undervalued.
smoky niche
Is exsanguinate viable anymore with the SS nerfs or should I just be going toxic blade?
onyx wind
SS is super insane for m+
remote oak
Is MA simming significantly higher than subt for anyone? They sim awfully close together on my part.
civic palm
They will not sim very much apart ATM.
smoky niche
Well I have a set of Sharpened Blades too, so I'm curious if I should just go with that and toxic blade
civic palm
If you can make sure you have 100% uptime on attacking then sure, run SB.
If you can make sure that you will never lose the SB buff, then run SB.
desert pelican
If u run exshang, how to prepare for 2-3 exs? Just refresh garrotte for max pandemic than refrrsh rapture and use exshang? How not to lose dps if im resync my rapture and garrote and when my exhang nearly rdy im having like 6 sec garrotte but 15 sec rapture? Refresh rapture anyway?
onyx wind
Put 3cp rupture up a bit before
and then refresh it to a 5cp
with garrote
2 globals before
then exsang
formal ermine
2x archive is good?
onyx wind
its not bad
civic palm
SB clearly has a duration. Sure it's longer than Snake Eyes but it can drop.
onyx wind
Its like 30 seconds right?
sinful lotus
@onyx wind How come very few rogues are running MA over SubT on Warcraft logs (top parses)? Even without any SS traits. They've replaced Xsang with TB but they still use SubT? I'm not sure i understand why.
civic palm
20 seconds
onyx wind
Beecause its AoE most likeely
onyx wind
no
civic palm
Also because the simulated difference between MA and SUB is very tiny.
onyx wind
You put 15sec rupture 7 seconds before
fast nacelle
no
onyx wind
Garrote and rupture can bee cast in any order
desert pelican
Im always lowered my dps coz refresh bleeds out of pandemic before exs -_-
desert pelican
Im refreshing but not in pandemic range)
desert pelican
How many sec garrote i want?
civic palm
claiming Tyra isn't good enough O _O"
onyx wind
It can bee easily planned
civic palm
The rotation has near no randomness, encounters do.
fast nacelle
simcraft isnt good enough aswell
cause it doesnt refresh garrote
most of the time
formal ermine
When pick exsang is better than blade?
civic palm
SIMc also refreshes Rupture more than I think is needed.
onyx wind
Idk
desert pelican
@fast nacelle if im not always refresh garrote, so how many sec is optimal to refresh or not?
civic palm
But it's marginal.
onyx wind
I refresh both and get 99-100% logs
civic palm
That's nice.
civic palm
Most high ranking players also just fucking smash TB on CD and refresh DoTs during it a swell.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
frank shard
civic palm
High Ranking in this case is only High Ranking Public logs.
fast nacelle
if you plan your dots you most likely refresh garrote and rupture before exsang... but thats not the point
still saying you always refresh garrote is wrong
however it makes no big difference if you do either because it doesnt matter
paper root
any1 done any m+ today?
jdotb said the changed the dungeons
made teeming abit easier
fast nacelle
@desert pelican depends... i d say <10 and/or 4cp to get a 5 cp rupture
the closer to pademic the better
doesnt make a big difference.. aslong as you play opener and your 2 min vanish properly u gucci
weak pine
no SS?
desert pelican
With exs u hold vendetta for ~13-14 sexonds and pop it 10 sec before 4 exs?
onyx wind
hee has 0 ss traits
beecause he reefreshes rupture
^_^
taloc
Should i not be laughing?
daring imp
@paper root will test out SotS and will give feedback
^are you sure? @_@"
on pure st?
onyx wind
Why do you think i included the second rupturee in the screeenshot
sinful lotus
So you're supposed to 2xgar on opener without SS?
civic palm
With Subterfuge it's probably fine.
daring imp
4~5cp rupture then tb+mut rupture
cobalt marsh
Hey guys, I can't really seem to understand the rotation. I play with Tb and use it on cd but what else am I supposed to do after the opener? just mutilate for 4+ cp and envenom? and ofc refresh garrote/rupture
civic palm
The margins are so fucking tiny I doubt it matters.
civic palm
"bad"
onyx wind
He could just refresh the rupture afterwards
100%
Insteead of wasting a 5cp envenom in TB window
Would you not agree that its bad?
Which is why i wasnt trynig to discuss why he did it
But just having a laugh about him doing it
And still getting rank 1
civic palm
I mentioned earlier that play during TB doesn't seem to matter at all if you just look at logs. Shit is all over the place.
daring imp
then the boss faces his hitkill BEAM to the wall...
winter gale
@Mazerok, with EP + MA when I refresh my 1st Garrote and Rupture (I am w/o any SS)
winter gale
Haha
civic palm
Normal Pandemic timers.
amber quail
This discussione show the limit of the sims.
The real game is often different and โthe best thingโ is not a theory thing ๐
civic palm
No it shows that Logs are fucking stupid as well.
onyx wind
It just proves
That if you have gear / kill timings
You can make mistakes and still get rank1
amber quail
Philosofical game style
daring imp
how the fuck did i get +300dps w/o changing gear
civic palm
Kill Timers have always been important, gear scales in logs.
You changed something dork.
daring imp
i didn't
onyx wind
I got rank1 taloc and made many mistakes
daring imp
gear set is the same
civic palm
Gear Scales in logs once enough people have enough of it .
daring imp
ร_ร
onyx wind
Simply because i got a good killtimer
civic palm
Month 1 R1's are poopyhead
onyx wind
But in general
formal ermine
@onyx wind can u link sim ur char?
onyx wind
With what traits/talents?
viscid pawn
got one question. in aoe situations with like 3+ mobs do i use fok only twice? heard something about it. even when i got only 2cp from 2 foks i use ct or rupture
formal ermine
Traits and talents ๐
amber quail
why you ask for sim if this ranking shown that sim is not the bible?
civic palm
Depends on what you plan on doing with the CP you generate from FoK. Ruptures need to last as long as you think the mobs will.
amber quail
This is silly IN THIS discussion
viscid pawn
ye thats what i heard
onyx wind
You want to have enough eneergy to have no downtime
formal ermine
Currently build
viscid pawn
so only cast fok twice and finish with ct or rupture?
onyx wind
@formal ermine I switch my build on every boss lol
ill just link thee one that sims highest for pure ST
tough warren
what traits are you guys running for M+ atm?
viscid pawn
2x ss and 1xdd
civic palm
1 is enough if you get enough CP such that the duration is long enough so that mobs die within the duration.
formal ermine
Show from fetid
amber quail
My stats are 21-22-28 and sim ask ne more haste, but if i switch 20-17-36 sim better...same ILV/talents(both no versa)
Any opinion?
onyx wind
If you changee stats
civic palm
. . .
onyx wind
Your stat weeights will switch
strange python
eyy, another patch notes, another rogue nerfs
amber quail
W8 a sec i try to post from my Smartphone
strange python
keep em going blizzard
civic palm
๐บ
strange python
๐
onyx wind
Wait they areee nerfing rogues?
civic palm
Also what PATCH NOTES?
strange python
outlaw
civic palm
You fucking link datamining and you leave the server.
strange python
6% aura nerf
strange python
civic palm
from?
strange python
wowhead
civic palm
I see you trying to not say it's from PTR.
civic palm
๐ฎ
strange python
looking for another drama to start mizerok i see?
civic palm
No but I am not linking Day0 PTR datamining.
amber quail
Cause the point is not the โstats weight askโ but the โthe sim answerโ if i lie the ask
Gimmme time
strange python
civic palm
It's the PTR datamining.
strange python
rogues are already mid pack dps except zul
lets nerf em more
because a pure dps class is not supposed to be top dps
make druids be top dps ๐
civic palm
I'd wait until 1 update post public PTR launch before worrying about numbers.
formal ermine
@onyx wind cant open ur sim
amber quail
@strange python you aim the right question
fallow walrus
Wait, we getting another nerf?
onyx wind
most likely
civic palm
Oh great this again.
civic palm
Do people have access to 8.1 PTR yet?
amber quail
Why a pure dps donโt top ALWAYS?
candid notch
^^^
civic palm
Why would they?
civic palm
Can't be good at every fight concept.
strange python
there was some big patch for PTR yesterday
civic palm
You can DL the patch without being able to log onto the server.
"patch"
Like I said, wait until there's at least 1 update post public access before even looking at numbers.
No telling what is fucking old in that shit.
amber quail
I think that pure dps MUST stat up for about 5/10% over hibrid
strange python
logically thinking, a pure dps class should ALWAYS outdps a hybrid class (atleast on pure ST), that's how I see it
civic palm
There's no such thing as hybrid tax.
and the classes aren't attacking a stationary target without mechanics.
If Rogues were Top DPS when the encounter didn't favor melee, they would be FAR ABOVE when it did favor melee.
amber quail
No matter of rogue.
civic palm
. . .
amber quail
If not melee do mage/hunter/lock
strange python
I liked how NH rogue's worked (or atleast assa)
civic palm
mmmmmmmmnty
strange python
monster ST dps that no one could match (except warlocks i guess)
candid notch
if anything sub could go a tiny buff
civic palm
gigaTUNNEL
onyx wind
Didnt we still havee agonizing in NH
onyx wind
Cause fuck agonizing
strange python
and its been like this since game release
civic palm
Yeah you had AP in NH.
candid notch
if theyre gonna nerf assassination damage atleast add some survivability
civic palm
and a tier that buffed ENV damage.
civic palm
What does our tankiness have to do with our damage... in regards to how much damage we do?
AP was megaDumb when it had a 15% proc chance.
wtf was that?!
civic palm
I mean if you want us to tunnel, 30% was fine, 15% was just bad math.
That shit falling off when you were tunneling was the dumbest thing in a long time.
tight meteor
wait what is sin getting slice and dice
civic palm
"updated"
tight meteor
yeah lol
civic palm
A PTR server brought online is not a PTR server updated.
tight meteor
right
civic palm
please no SnD > _>
grand trail
hello guys, i come back to game after 2y break, i just wanna chill and so and i enjoy all 3 spec. which is go to for dungs now?
onyx wind
sin
pale knot
is poison knife nature dmg?
pale knot
i mean if u toxic blade before with sb does it actaully do more dmg?
civic palm
Poisoned Knife doesn't state that it does any kind of nature or poison damage.
pale knot
so it should do both dmgs then ?
pale knot
alright fair enough
civic palm
It's in the Physical school and does Physical Damage.
onyx wind
It also does poison damage
But the poison damage is not amplified by SB
And its next to nothing
so no reason to use TB first
civic palm
Pardon?
onyx wind
Does it make sense to you now?
civic palm
No it doesn't do poison damage.
onyx wind
Yes it does
civic palm
Got a combat log showing that?
onyx wind
Reead what it does
civic palm
Cuz that's fucking weird.
onyx wind
????
civic palm
Does that spell, by itself, do poison damage?
onyx wind
Not if you have no poisons on
civic palm
or on the target.
onyx wind
Depends on how you look at it
blissful dove
No it really doesn't
onyx wind
ok ^_^
pale knot
ok bois i got my answer no need to get all worked up over this ๐
civic palm
I will say that the damage from Deadly Poison re-applications is very low.
blissful dove
No one's worked up lol
blissful dove
I wish there was more smoothing about the damge sources
civic palm
Poison Knife does not Poison damage, Deadly Poison does.
onyx wind
But poison knife applies deadly poison
100% of the timee
Therefore its a part of the ability
Can we agree
That casting poison knife always deals poison damage?
civic palm
No because if there is no poison on the target it only applies the poison.
So your use of always is wrong again.
civic palm
Which does not damage WHEN you use Poison Knife.
blissful dove
You're being willfully obtuse exeo
civic palm
He's being a troll and that's banable.
blissful dove
Your case is wrong, plainly and wholly
opaque sigil
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
opaque sigil
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
blissful dove
No
onyx wind
No point in arguing about this then
civic palm
Then why won't you shut up about it?
blissful dove
He really wasn't
onyx wind
ok
blissful dove
How much does a 2x sharpened blade PK hit for anyway? Max stacks
desert pelican
Tb sims higher than exs for anyone after 55-60 ilvl?
civic palm
Well that depends on your AGI, yadda yadda yadda.
blissful dove
Ballpark
civic palm
Dunno.
onyx wind
30k
pale knot
crits that is ofc
blissful dove
Gotcha
pale knot
in sub i got over like 115k
civic palm
32.5K
vestal abyss
4 targets 40 seconds i sim 32k DPS
4 targets 40 seconds I do 8k dps
I am doing somethign wrong but i dont know what
What I try to do:
garrote 3, crimson tempest, fan of knives till 5 cp then put rupture up on 3 targets
Am i doing something wrong?
blissful dove
Kess how many SB do you run?
blissful dove
Gotcha, thanks dude
strange python
now 3x sb vs ss is simming higher on hectic add cleave? this is correct?
civic palm
Correct compared to?
blissful dove
Could be I suppose
civic palm
It does SIM higher in a vacuum.
strange python
i have it simmed versus shrouded suffocation
blissful dove
Fight length would make a big difference
vestal abyss
4 targets 40 seconds i sim 32k DPS
4 targets 40 seconds I do 8k dps
I am doing somethign wrong but i dont know what
What I try to do:
garrote 3, crimson tempest, fan of knives till 5 cp then put rupture up on 3 targets
Am i doing something wrong?
zealous wolf
what are you guys running for m+ sin or sub?
civic palm
Also being able to hit the target 100% of the encounter.
weary verge
Running sin atm
strange python
yes moth, it is 5 minutes, i guess that would not be correct for dungeon
blissful dove
For small packs of trash SS is going to be better in practice
Especially getting restealths between pulls
halcyon pendant
@vestal abyss what does it says on the APL of the sim? You can check what it does and try to do it yourself to see if it's the same
vestal abyss
How do i find the apl?
halcyon pendant
click the html report
and then check teh "action priority list"
and check the sample sequence table
civic palm
Your FoKs should be 1-2 FoKs trying to get enough CP to get a Rupture long enough so that they fall off near when the mobs die.
on 3+ targets you should also have replaced ENV with CT while keeping ENV up (keeping ENV isn't 100% imo).
rustic acorn
do you guys know if we can catch up on array stacks when we missed a week ?
rustic acorn
well yea, but i meant, now, not in 10 weeks
civic palm
no
civic palm
๐
onyx wind
You get stacks without having thee gaer
rustic acorn
yup, but i missed a week, i didn't play basicaly
zealous wolf
is hectic add cleave a good sim for m+?
civic palm
Not with SS in mind.
zealous wolf
kk
civic palm
Still undervalues SS.
onyx wind
But not as much
zealous wolf
i sim 3k more on hectic with sub
civic palm
Probably enough to push Scent higher than it should be, though both are fine IIRC.
vestal abyss
So rupture has priority over crimson tempesst?
civic palm
Rupture generates Energy, and you need Energy.
vestal wren
@vestal abyss link the the apl is pinned in #tc-research
vestal abyss
ty
faint creek
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wide furnace
Is there a guide anywhere about maximizing ass dps? I don't think the ravenholdt guide talks about TB/Envenom windows.
Found out yesterday by reading the chat that ideally I'm supposed to get 2 envenoms in a TB window.
wide furnace
Is there any maximizing for elaborate planning or envenom?
zealous wolf
ah on 4bosses 40 sec i sim 3k more with sin
formal ermine
Tell me something! Why i simming 14.5k but in real i do 10-11k 
zealous wolf
guess its sin for m+ still
onyx wind
Because you are not playing weell
zealous wolf
2x SS and 1x twist the knife since 370 item
dusty crow
Guys, how do you think the proposed changes to sub and outlaw will effect us as sin?
as far as i can see, sin isnt being changed
formal ermine
But idk what i do wrong ๐
onyx wind
what changees
dusty crow
dusty crow
loads of changes on ptr
formal ermine
Whare i can find them logs
onyx wind
Are you neew to world of warcraft?
Because then looking at logs are not gonna heeelp you
placid elbow
I am a scrub lord, do we have any Weak Auras for Elaborate Planning tracking?
onyx wind
There are built in WA's for all buffs/debuffs in the basic class design
zealous wolf
yes, that post is mostly tooltip changes. The SS nerfs are allready there
onyx wind
Not including traits
fathom echo
with 3 x SS how does the opener change ?
onyx wind
from what
cobalt relic
Holy shit boys
placid elbow
@onyx wind thank you, i didn't realize that ๐
zealous wolf
...
sinful ore
grats
cobalt relic
FeelsAmazingMan
sinful ore
still dont have one ๐ฆ
placid elbow
I have a 350 one
strange river
Meow
zealous wolf
i dont understand how the uldir trinkets are so shit
wary anchor
is sub better if u dont have shrouded traits for m+?
strange river
What do you mean high
cobalt relic
People just want 700-800+ IO for rogues. Lol
zealous wolf
ofc they dont want anyone shit
balmy cradle
1190 io score, no probs finding any group
donno if score or rogue they look for tho
cobalt relic
I don't have much problems and I'm right at 700.
balmy cradle
but kitwise rogue should be pretty preferred? shroud alone
strange python
@balmy cradle as a new player the IO hinders me greatly some times, only have like 500 something ๐ฆ
shadow pivot
shroud is nothing big when invis pot exists
strange river
It is when they take up dps. Pots for 10 min
balmy cradle
well if you dont have any friends to push with, youll have to stick with the "lower" groups and try to make "friends" to push with, thats what everyone had to do
compact void
Hey guys , could you tell me why my combo point generation is random with Fan of Knives ?
shadow pivot
1 +1 per crit
strange python
@shadow pivot Cloak tho, in some fights it's truly bae
compact void
Well , when i have 5 mobs around me i don't generate 5 cp
grizzled lynx
u have to crit
shadow pivot
b ecause you don't score 4 crits...
compact void
i just don't understand it
compact void
ooh ok
shadow pivot
what don't you understand in 1 +1 per crits ;-;
shadow pivot
yeah
strange river
I mean it's based on the person using it.
shadow pivot
well theres no other way to know if someone gonna suck or not, and you don't want your keys to be depleted so I understand it
placid elbow
"MUST HAVE 800+ RAIDER IO SCORE" for a +6 boiz
strange river
Shit this week I feel that
cobalt relic
There is too much wait on IO. I've been with 800 people who are garbage and 300 people who dominate. It becomes more relevant when we're not less than a month into M+s
strange river
Fort teeming can suck some dick
shadow pivot
I got 900~ atm, forced myself to do +9 on some dungeons that has no loots for me solely for r.io.. thats stupid
cobalt relic
weight*
strange python
ur azerite pieces are also low ilvl
devout moth
are we getting 7% aura nerf? or is this like a sum of all the fixes that have been happening?
strange python
" Sprint Increases your movement speed by 70% for 8 sec. Usable while stealthed.
Subtlety (Level 61)
Allows you to run over water"
?
Spell Id changes
nothing else
"Allows you to run over water"
strange python
As subtlety
quick cipher
about time they put that back in
wary anchor
what talents best for m+?
strange python
@wary anchor http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
wary anchor
m+ is hectic add cleave right?
grizzled lynx
no
wary anchor
then what
grizzled lynx
something like 4-6 bosses for 40secs/1min
true aurora
Ss dipped hard for me. I sim highest with x2 titan and 1 laser.
vital crater
is it still subterforge even without ss trait?
grizzled lynx
for m+ ?!
strange python
neon chasm
anyone can help me figure out what gear i should aim for to increase my dps? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/roeTBnjH2DcWQmo8htB8iT
ignore the talents their my m+ talents
strange python
ur trinkets are bad
neon chasm
yeah
grizzled lynx
higher boots maybe
strange python
Archive of the titans is kinda bad for m+
acoustic flame
I'm at like 1.3k haste and it's only now my worst stat
strange python
Get scent of blood, ss, sb
@neon chasm spam SoTS for a galecallers, I think Harlans dice is good also?
rose wharf
refreshing dots before using exsang or just fire it?
rose wharf
so is it worth to refresh them early or just wait with exsang until you you refreshed due to the "roatation" ?
neon chasm
you just exsang right after you put your dots up fresh
rose wharf
alirght thanks
fathom echo
anyone have a stealth macro ?
strange river
/cast stealth
fathom echo
isnt there one that you dont accidently press it twice
strange river
No idea I mean I guess you could do /cast [nostealth] Stealth
compact bolt
Used to /cast !stealth but that's broken so iirc this has the one i have
#showtooltip
/dismount
/cast [nomodifier] !Stealth
/cast [mod] Stealth
hybrid galleon
#showtooltip Stealth
/cast [nostealth] Stealth
paper root
btw can confirm blizzard hotfixed some dungeons
atleast underrot had alot of stuff removed
by stuff i mean teeming aids mobs
supple lagoon
Can anyone tell me why a sub rogue just murdered me while my evasion was up??
like how can he even hit me
supple lagoon
nobody was answering so i figured I'd ask another channel that still has to do with evasion. Like is there some mechanic about evasion that im missing?
willow cypress
Doesn't shadowstrike put you behind the target? Didn't think you could dodge from behind
terse viper
tol dagor last boss got nerfed
supple lagoon
Can you not evade attacks from behind?
willow cypress
I didn't think TD boss needed it after the stunning poison nerf
willow cypress
And I know you couslbt before Joss, but that was some xpacs ago
compact bolt
Cant dodge attacks you dont see ;P
Also if they are on the side of you but face their model the same way as you they are technically attacking from behind.
quasi ledge
@compact bolt In what way is /cast !stealth broken? Been using it forever and it still works 100% fine for me
terse viper
last boss in TD definitely needed a nerf
jolly bronze
Just dont be bad lmao
rain tree
TD's final boss though was a pain due to how frequently he knocks you back
sonic spindle
Hero rotation is the mod that follows the accepted apl, right?
summer tapir
I need to replace a 390 Cannonball Runner. What trinkets should I be targeting? I have a Galecallers already
wind thistle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
terse viper
sim yourself with trinkets that sim well
rain tree
especially on mythic/mythic+ TD's last boss is maddening due to how difficult it is to keep close on other melee classes.
compact bolt
@quasi ledge no the ! in !stealth has been sketchy since 8.0, randomly working and then not lol
rain tree
Oh yeah, Since i started playing rogues not too long ago, what is the right level/ilvl to solo classic raids, I ask because I want that sweet nightslayer armor for transmog ofc
compact bolt
Anything 11 levels past the content is how it was supposed to work. Some are bugged but most are no issue
rain tree
so Level 71 onwards would be okay?
winter fog
i'm using 2x340 SS + 385 Double Dose right now - is it worth to switch out one of the 340 SS pieces for a 355 laser matrix?
dapper moat
Propably
compact bolt
From what i was reading in here earlier yes for m+ and no for ST
rain tree
It does? How come it doesn't trigger for that raid with c'thuun in it though?
winter fog
wouldn't SS be strongest in m+? you can make use of it far more often in dungeons? @compact bolt
dawn merlin
SS is still really good in m+, yes
due to constant restealthing
switching one of the 340 SS for a 355 laser matrix is most likely worth it in uldir
like 90% sure, but go sim it
tardy storm
Im pretty sure SS is still one of the best traits in m+
but like Monadu said
u should sim it
winter fog
but simming doesnt really take the constant restealthing in consideration does it?
dawn merlin
no
winter fog
so if its close in a sim I would assume SS is way better in m+
dawn merlin
I was referring to you asking if you should swap a 340 SS for a 355 matrix
probably not for m+, most likely yes for raid
winter fog
patchwerk sim says 355 matrix
tardy storm
For a boss fight in a raid which usually takes 5-6 minutes, matrix is probably better
dawn merlin
remember that you do not get reorigination array outside of uldir, so set it to zero stacks
warped wedge
Is this another nerf coming? sry if asked already
dawn merlin
nope @warped wedge same one that already is live
warped wedge
hmm i see