so seen bloodmallet as 3 stacks of archive of the titans the highest dps trait for us. does that include in M+ or raid only?
#assassination
strange python
daring imp
likely only raid because of reorigination array
south magnet
raid only
daring iron
I have to ask if thats during Harlan's increased damage window
his last like 20% he takes 200% damage I believe
half mortar
Right at the end of the fight so it’s possible
Oh there you go then I did t know that
It’s usually hitting around 55k -60k tho
daring iron
still pretty cool
civic palm
Sharpened Blade is poop for raids unless you're doing Normal.
daring iron
I mean if you have an archive or laser piece you wear it during raids
half mortar
Ahh alright so it’s trash teir no matter why
Nope not me
Every other raid member has been lucky
half mortar
355-370 in every slot except azerite
civic palm
or SS, it's still fine.
half mortar
Awesome thanks guys
daring iron
I swapped to sin after the SS nerf, I hear it's still really strong single target though
sub*
half mortar
I was gonna go sub but can be so painful if you fuck something up
icy iris
obv not realistic numbers too small but
half mortar
I came form outlaw but it was just so comical for me
daring imp
@civic palm why poop? it even helps out target switching @_@"
daring iron
I played sub for all of ToS, got the rotation ingrained in muscle memory lol
half mortar
My rotation was 5 Sin strikes then a roll the bones
icy iris
snake eyes rotation is a fkn joke
daring iron
yeah I started in outlaw because deadshot was fun af
half mortar
Deadshot was actually fun because it changed the rotation
daring iron
then it got relatively gutted, now I'm just playing what I have the best traits for
half mortar
I would be happy with a15% nerf but they just killed it
exotic abyss
deadshot still the best isnt it?
south magnet
dead shot semmed allot of fun
half mortar
Keen for guild to get to heroic zek this week though so I can go sub
Nah snake eyes is better now
The only finisher you use is roll the bones
daring iron
snake eyes is better for single, DS is still strong in aoe
But I'm pretty sure snake eyes is still quite close in aoe at multiple instances of the trait
daring iron
Yeah much better than old BF
half mortar
What’s your initial Burst as sub
stray cloud
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
stray cloud
Question about subterfuge/using abilities from stealth. Outside of garrote, does rupture, envenom, or anything else gain a dps bonus when used from stealth?
Like what ones are 'empowered'
arctic isle
no
daring imp
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
versed apex
Weird that they would nerf it without fixing it
stray cloud
Ok, so just so only garrote with SS are considered empowered then?
And its every empowered one, not just the one on the current target?
winter gale
Master Poisoner /Master Assassin simbs best for me. Is that anyhow good?
civic palm
If it SIMs best for you...
torpid jackal
i refuse to play outlol while RtB exists
ripe blaze
what's better for short term fight (m+ bosses) exang or toxic blade ??
torpid jackal
sim @short durations
versed apex
@stray cloud I'm not 100% sure I understand your question, but Assassination's Subterfuge has three effects: Let you use stealth abilities for 3 seconds after breaking stealth (including Shrouded Suffocation's effect), make Garrote do more damage for 3 seconds after breaking stealth, and removing Garrote's cooldown for 3 seconds after breaking stealth.
Only Garrote is affected by the talent
dusky pebble
do i want dagger in the back or SS
civic palm
You want what sims best for you in the correct environment.
versed apex
And also Garrote's extra damage lasts its full duration, with the exception of the bug that Moroes mentioned, or if you overwrite it.
winter gale
Subterfuge or Master Assassin with no SS traits?
Master Assassin sims 0.6% but its slow, I feel weaker 😄
desert hazel
when you gear compare a uldir azerite pieces, it doesn't factor in the secondary stat you'll get from reorigination array does it?
hollow jungle
At what point do you berserking in rotation?
unkempt wing
Hi kann mir einer sagen wie ich bei plater ,,Rupture" tracken kann ? wenn ich rupture bei den buffs eingeb kommt immer irgend eine Shamanen fähigkeit
sry wrong language
Can anyone tell me how i can track Rupture on Plater ? if i want to add it, it always shows a shaman ability
stray cloud
@hollow jungle I usually use it when I start to use mutilates in opening, and on cooldown.
split dirge
compact parrot
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
fresh ginkgo
guess gotta wait till everything is fleshed out
calm grail
Yeah. First PTR build. Wouldn't sweat anything yet.
Will be especially nice to see other traits buffen when that occurs.
fresh ginkgo
scent of blood 
tribal sand
is that another SS nerf on the ptr?
I think it is..
Shrouded Suffocation Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 additional Combo Points and deals 438 (new 234) additional damage.
wicked comet
its the same one
wicked comet
yh
tribal sand
cause this says for the ptr
tribal sand
Sharpened Blades Your autoattacks increase the damage of your next Shuriken Toss or Poisoned Knife by 144 (new 251) stacking up to 30 times.
thats a big buff
yeah i'm pretty sure they nerfed SS again
on PTR
not live game people
winter gale
If playing Master Assassin is it like similar to legion rotation?
Opener?
Master Assassin sims best for me with Subterfuge.
potent rune
40% nerf
potent rune
brought to u by blizzard the company that fucks u after the hard farm for traits
tribal sand
and they bufffed the fuck out of SB
fresh ginkgo
Many of these changes are recent hotfixes being merged into the baseline spell data.```.>
strange python
@spiral frost we all know this is gonna go live
arctic isle
hard farm traits from that mythic cache once a week 4head
potent rune
nerfs always go live and buff always never do
potent rune
fuk a new model she needs a new writer
tribal sand
nop lol
strange python
Malfurion new bear model
potent rune
"oh malfurion my love" so cringy, yep she def needs a new writer
tribal sand
mhm
potent rune
funy thing is that top st always gets nerfed yet there is almost no fight without adds or movement these days
potent rune
mother is meh, depending on ur grp
wicked comet
like why would they nerf ss again after nerfing it to way below bis
ofc its the same nerf
exotic abyss
Cut to the Chase Your
Assassination (Level 36)
Envenom
Eviscerate refreshes your Slice and Dice duration to its 5 combo point maximum.
strange python
@exotic abyss Its the same spell
frank sentinel
Pls giv snd
peak saffron
can anyone link the patch notes with that new SS change?
wicked comet
what new change
calm grail
Just a quick check for anybody else running here, are you guys using your Dread Gladiators medallion with Vendetta since they share 2 minute CD?
peak saffron
dawn merlin
peak saffron
i apologize. only caught part of the convo earlier
was just looking for clarification and got it. thanks
wicked comet
idk why hes spamming it as if it was obvious to him
i told him and he still linked it afterwards saying i think its a new nerf lmao
strange python
calm down buddy
🙂
I already said my bad
why u mad
😄
ooo big mad fella right here
lol he deleted his post
what a beta
yeah, you're a beta.
BETA marked.
He's so mad
Damn
Betas be mad, bro.
peak saffron
again, thanks for the quick response. Takatsuki, I hope your day gets better
tribal sand
same
safe matrix
Alright, calm down with the insults and toxicity guys.
thick sorrel
fan of knifes build in bgs? anyone know about this?
civic palm
o _o"
obtuse robin
more rogue nerfs in the 8.1 ptr build
civic palm
list
quick echo
Oh boy
civic palm
Proof, come come.
obtuse robin
wtf
quick echo
Its an old one.
obtuse robin
potent rune
ptr = Practically The Real thing
strange python
Its the same nerf BLack
jaunty ginkgo
does it matter which dagger I have in each hand? i.e. if they're different in ilvl and enchant
desert hazel
We should just spam ITS A OLD NERF for the next 3 hours
supple hearth
obtuse robin
relax
strange python
I don't understand why they included this nerf in the post though
Like we already know about it
desert hazel
@scenic swallow wasn't anything towards you, you are just the 5th one to do it in like the last 10 mins
obtuse robin
not sure why they release something so sloppy
obtuse robin
the ptr notes
marble magnet
Did sprint always water walk
obtuse robin
i know
fossil furnace
Its just wowhead, they probably auto-generate them or something
obtuse robin
doesnt mean its not all over the place
civic palm
Yeah
potent rune
only for sub u can water walk with sprint
civic palm
Reason you shouldn't even try to read that mess for like another hour.
fresh ginkgo
M+ this week is such aids
civic palm
Could be old shit as well.
potent rune
cuz u know ninjas
fresh ginkgo
just did a +11 motherload
marble magnet
Why is sub such ninjas
fresh ginkgo
strange python
Did Tol Dagor +9 , wasnt that bad honestly
potent rune
blame the pruning
fossil furnace
Teeming when the trash is the hardest part of the dungeons is just pure FeelsBadMan
fresh ginkgo
shrine
potent rune
thats why i wont go near kings rest this week esp with 2 berserkers that 1 shot tanks
fresh ginkgo
that bridge of death
yea king's is hard too
But on the other hand you can really pad those numbers with CT tho
fossil furnace
Kings went from my favourite key week 1 to least favourite now haha, idk if I even wanna attempt my +10 KR this week
potent rune
thats why i just freehold spam this week it trash isnt that bad
olive shore
siege of boralus is super easy too
turbid burrow
Guys, what is the best way to use Toxic Blade: cast on cooldown no matter what, or always pool energy to pump out as many envenoms as possible?
balmy condor
on cd
steel bane
shroud still bugged?
turbid burrow
because of its high base damage @balmy condor ?
potent rune
whats the shroud bug?
arctic isle
ben u use on cd by pooling before
storm epoch
!SS
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
potent rune
o nvm lol i thought the actually grp shroud lol
turbid burrow
it's not always possible @potent rune 😦 sometimes the timing is awkward with garrote and rupture refreshes
i mean @arctic isle
magic phoenix
Raid question, would you still ever run Exsanguinate or always toxic blade in raiding evoirment ?
arctic isle
sim urself
chrome cave
does toxic blade increase the dmg of double dose trait? 🤔
royal lantern
is it poison dmg? if yes, it should
hollow cloud
@magic phoenix yes
safe matrix
gloomy stump
@chrome cave ye https://www.wowhead.com/spell=245389/toxic-blade
chrome cave
so that's why it does absurd dmg in pvp with 3x traits during TB
makes sense xD
btw what do you guys do on short lived adds such as those in mother encounter as sin? Just spam mutilate and envenom?
safe matrix
@magic phoenix depends on gear really
reef mortar
My sin buddy is trying to increase his parses from blue to purple. Could you guys take a look at some of his fights and see what he can improve on?
strange python
Maybe don't use the enchant ?
He's got deadly navigation on both weapons
Oh nvm he changed it
lime briar
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/17834355#difficulty=3 Does anyone have any tips for improvement? Or any tips on how I can read my logs to figure out what's incorrect?
velvet kernel
Anyone have the time to give my logs a look over?
true aurora
Wowloganyzer in case no one responds
velvet kernel
yh i know
true aurora
Analyzer*
velvet kernel
Just having a person tell me helps 😄
true aurora
Yup. I get ya
velvet kernel
but ty anyway 😄
strange python
I have a 355 piece that has Laser matrix along with 1ss and 1DiB. But the 370 chest I have gives me 2DiB and 1ss and is simming higher than the laser matrix with array? Should I still keep the laser piece? Or is it safe to say I can drop it since the 370 is aiming higher at 15 ilvl
azure drift
after the nerf to suffocation between the 2 sub and sin what is stronger or was the nerf not big enough and the 2 are still relatively close to each other ?
royal lantern
they where always pretty close too each other
they are just good for different fights, sub rogue is probably the best melee dps for mythic zul as an example
velvet kernel
Ok
is wowanalyzer bugged for assas?
Cause its saying im wasting 51.7 engery
but then below it says imonly wasting 12.71
true aurora
Said I capped my energy too, but I never did. Could be bugged
smoky lantern
why do i feel like my ST is so poorly when i keep garrote and rupture up like 98% active
and never capping
acoustic lion
Anyone here how much of attack power garrote scales with now?
Looking through the new datamined stuff on wowhead, i think it is at least
And it says something about garrote
sand whale
is it new tho
acoustic lion
thats what i wanna know :p
silk sedge
hey quick question, i just swapped to exsang but i havent used it since legion when every other exsang lined up with vendetta. now that they dont line up so perfectly, should i just used both on cooldown, or should i delay one or the other to try to line them up?
fresh ginkgo
Overseer Korgus’ Incendiary Rounds’ damage and Blast Rounds’ pushback decreased by 25%.```🤔
i think the second to last boss is harder than the last boss
bright shale
Correct
stray cloud
Not if dps run barrels, but range get owned on that boss
bright shale
Dps... run... barrels
fresh ginkgo
pop cloak and hope to god?
visual token
Ignore barrels burn boss
royal lantern
idk why people just dont stack the barrels at 1 place and be done with it
stray cloud
Leeroy never works on that fight once you hit Tol 8
But final boss in there on tyrannical is absolute hell for some groups, and caster if done right is pretty easy.
royal lantern
the last fight is not hard, but...well...most people are really bad
stray cloud
Yeah. The stacking dot is impossible to heal through with 3 stacks currently. And range classes that can't clear it are screwed.
royal lantern
you should just stack on melee range, but then you have 08/15 frost mage that stands on max range, gets a knockback, doesnt move and complains about no heals because he is out of healer range
TD is good with a hpaladin for heals,but yeha, bad luck with dots means using deff cd or die
stray cloud
I've finished Tol 61 times now according to my last kill of him. 1 more dagger and I won't go back til 8.1
18 runs between 8 - 10 for main hand, up to 12 runs for the offhand.
old lagoon
Assuming you have a trinket with 1.5m CD, where is the best to use it? save for vendetta? or off cd with like rupter / TB?
strange python
So what is the best combination of traits right now and does ilvl matter?
Since SS is neefed
daring imp
ss nerf brought it more on par with other stuff FOR RAIDING*
ilvl matters
so sim yourself to be sure
for m+ tho i still recommend 3x ss
strange python
Yea I do sim myself and I looked at blood mallet, which shows laser matrix higher than let's say dagger in the back. But my 370 dagger in the back shows me simming higher than laser matrix which is 355....should I just roll with whatever sums suggest even in raid?
Sims*
daring imp
if the difference is minimal you can pick whatever, i generally follow what sims put me on higher number and always do atleast a full raid night before deciding if i should change something or not
strange python
My plan is to have 3xSS gear for M+ even though ilvls are lower, but we are progressing heroic uldir right now and I want to make sure I'm approaching it roght
fast nacelle
yes ss is fine for m+ - if you change fight duration you ll see it aswell
(in sims)
strange python
Gotcha....is patchwork still the go to for raid encounter?
Or what should I be simming on?
fast nacelle
i mean for m+ it shows that in very short fights 40s and 2 min ss pulls ahead
even with 340 vs 370
for raid it depends which fights you sim but usually i d just look warcraftlogs
and look what other rogues play
strange python
Yea I was looking at the logs earlier and it seemed like archive was definitely the way to go for raid...but for the most part the traits all varied it seemed
So I'm assuming that's the ilvl>azerite trait coming into play
harsh glacier
Should I always try to 5cp Envenom/Rupture? Or is 4 fine?
tough topaz
4 is fine, don't waste mut cp for 1 cp
zenith cedar
Whats the best trait now?
blazing cobalt
Ongbak we were doing Zek Vos heroic yesterday together I think
zenith cedar
I did a +11 and shrouded was still kinda kickass
blazing cobalt
SS is still prob best for m+, although possible 2x ss 1x laser or array might be better
civic palm
zenith cedar
pin s are out of date bro
strange python
I still like to run 2xSs or 3xSS if I can for m+. Still puts put good numbers
midnight flower
i bet the people who say check pins use icy veins as well
true aurora
Good one, goose
midnight flower
nice one , steve
daring imp
@blazing cobalt oh i remember the wipefest lul
they formed the group today again i think ( the same shaman raid leader )
hallow fog
so a friend tried to tell me that Ret paladin is equally as complex as assassination
hallow fog
he did a little in legion but i've raided as ret
and levelling assass, it's already more complex at level 50
daring imp
what
hallow fog
there's more to it than there is to ret
arctic isle
i doubt it
hallow fog
his argument was that if you take inquisition ret is more complex
which it isn't
it lasts for 45 seconds, and you can build it up to a minute
strange python
how many mobs do you think its worth using CT
daring imp
inquisition is like ol' days non-refresheable on envenom slice and dice
short flint
I realize others may have asked this and i have read about it but still remain confused. When hero damage shows 10x reorigination aray on LM or archive does that mean thats how much damage that trait gives you when you have 10 stacks or how much damage you get by having 10 stacks (meaning, do i only need 1 piece of azerite gear with LM or archive to get stacks or is it worth having lm or archive on all pieces if i have 10 stacks)
visual token
its at the very top of the page, there is a little box that explains.
daring imp
i believe 10 stacks + the trait itself
the lm/archive depending on piece
i think you can see the increase on 2/3 parts
and compare the raw increase with other traits
but the biggest increase is with 1
visual token
crap im sorry. super tired and stopped reading your question part of the way through. my bad.
night cypress
simmin highest st
anyone else gettin similar stat weights or is it just my distribution
night cypress
looks like i've found that sweet spot i guess, because haste is a fair bit under other stas
oh wait its like .05 less
thats not much
hmm
sounds like its ilvl boost time
valid heart
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
bright vessel
real question, should i race swap to magdar orc?
thin ingot
only for the pimping
zenith cedar
Pandaren is pimpp
fathom echo
anyone know a good guide for assass arena ?
fiery bobcat
yo can someone help me with rotation? struggling with lining up CDs.. Vanish and Exsanguinate feels wonky to use with vendetta post pull
thin radish
CT or poison bomb for M+?
manic nexus
is it okay to refresh before last tick of exsa'd garrote/rupture or do you always want to wait until it runs out
cold token
so what are we stacking now for m+ ?
supple hearth
triple ss
stray salmon
anybody know current weapon enchants for sin?
round prism
hows the engineering helmet traits? i got unlucky with helmet drops and still rocking a 340 with dagger in the back should i take the engineering 1?
supple hearth
@stray salmon crit/haste or ur top two stats
stray salmon
@supple hearth yea but does it matter which enchant goes on which dagger?
cold token
deadly navigation on main quick on off i think
stray salmon
@cold token thanks
quasi herald
Hi, I'm new here. I didn't see this in pins so sorry if this has been asked before. Everywhere I read suggest that using toxic blade on CD. For example, the opener in the guide. However, wouldn't it be better to use it right before an Envenom? You get two empowered envenom and full envenom buff for the duration. What am I missing?
supple hearth
@stray salmon it doesnt matter as its a proc that gives u overall stat increase
having it on one weapon or another isnt going to make it proc more often
versed apex
@quasi herald You want to pool energy so that you can envenom twice by the time TB comes off cd
So you're not just using abilities all willy nilly, you're planning a bit ahead to get good value
north leaf
KR with teeming, worth it to bring CT over PB?
night cypress
@quasi herald it also technically buffs your mutilates and you can't exactly plan for it to be your 4th/5th combo point because of crits
quasi herald
@versed apex @night cypress I understand that. But my point is, for example with the opener in the guide, you get a second or two toxic blade without the envenom buff, so you have less poison procs. Or does it not matter that much?
versed apex
Oh I see. It's probably good to do if you have the energy for it. Before TB comes up you want to make sure Garrote's is fine, Rupture is fine, and you have enough energy for 2 envenoms. If you can do all that and still have the resources for an envenom before TB then go for it
night cypress
no you definitely want that envenom inside the tb
if you can fit an envenom before, you can probably fit it inside tb
which is way more beneficial than like 2 seconds of increased poison application
quasi herald
@night cypress @versed apex Gotcha. Thanks guys.
oblique fox
For those with 3 SB, is it simming better than 2 SB and 1 archive?
fathom echo
whats the ideal opener now? Stealth >Garrote > Mut > Rupture > Mut + TB > Envenom.> Mut > Mut > Envenom
night cypress
opener should be the same
3sb probably won't sim better than archive if its counting reorigination
if you're still running any number ss opener would be g r g tb envenom etc
fathom echo
anyone know if you're running 3 x DD you need to change rotation at all
undone cairn
Yeah you should switch to master Assassin
And then use the rotation you wrote earlier
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
strange python
i know it says any talent for lvl 100 in dungeons but what do people actuaklly run
prime zephyr
hey so I'm digging into the apl on the sims and TB is only 7.7% of my combo points generated. Also, at a few points into the apl the sim is using TB at five combo points from two muts, thoughts?
prime zephyr
at five combo points from what I'm looking at, with pb
night cypress
that is odd
prime zephyr
I've been doing this for a minute aswell, it lines up well
yeah it gives you an easy two or three envenoms in the TB window
quasi herald
Kinda the same question I was asking earlier.
prime zephyr
which might be more dps over a single combo point
yeah its in the apl if you want to check, under sample sequence
quasi herald
You also get 1 or 2 more globals with both TB and Envenom buff compared to using TB at 0 cb
prime zephyr
it feels good to have five combo points ready to go
night cypress
My guess is its more dps to envenom inside tb than 1 cp is worth
prime zephyr
yeah
prime zephyr
but wasting combo points is just the nature of seal fate any ways
prime zephyr
for sure
quasi herald
Well, i mean, you always use 1 mut at least with tb. So why not mut first and then tb and see where you're at with combo points. You really would get at least one extra global and potentially one more envenom in the tb window if you really push it.
prime zephyr
also I simmed myself with two SS traits and the sim is using the old g-mut-rup opener
rather than the g-rup-g
night cypress
are you using nightly or weekly
prime zephyr
weekly
night cypress
@quasi herald you're probably not gonna squeeze a tb in with 1 gcd and mut can apply for tb dmg
ya use nightly
always
quasi herald
Maybe there's some misunderstanding here. Regular rotation that I see is TB > 1 or 2 Mut > Envenom. What I'm suggesting is Mut > TB > Mut if didn't crit before or envenom if crit.
prime zephyr
itsseems like because the CD on TB is so short and it does so much damage by itself that wasting the combo point is fine
and wasting the combo point on TB means more GCDs in the buff widow and also an easy two envenoms in the short time frame
quasi herald
I think it's quite obvious that the second rotation will cover one or two more global into the tb + envenom buff window.
Second rotation also allows extra time to pool energy without wasting the tb window (if you get lucky with first mut criting any amount of cp). So yea, you can potentially squeeze in 3 envenoms if you push it. The question would be if it's worth it to overlap the envenom buff.
trim nest
hey guys, im new to rogue and would like to ask a question about assa(and also in general). Which guide should i take a look at for the rotation, icy,ravenholdt or wowhead?
prime zephyr
icy veins and wowhead are both fine but lacking in different areas
you're new, so read and practice as much as possible
trim nest
kk,thx for it
prime zephyr
read, sim, and practice in that order
yeah np
like the icy veins guide has a section on aoe
trim nest
aight
prime zephyr
but its got rupture as more important than crimson tempest, which is not true
so take everything with a grain of salt
trim nest
y im just comparing each guide and they are a little bit different with the rotation, so dindt know whic one is the "correct" one
prime zephyr
yeah check out the pins aswell
trim nest
k
prime zephyr
if you want the 100% best thing to do, its either the apl from sims or warcraft logs
you can look at the best rogues in the world and check out thier gear or openers
trim nest
kk
prime zephyr
guide in the pins is good
trim nest
ok,thén ill start with this
long osprey
quick question, is it better to let the envenom buff fall off before hitting another envenom? or is it better to just use at 4/5 cp(assuming energy capping isnt an issue in the former option)
frosty arrow
i generally use it at 4 5 when i can
i wouldnt worry about waiting for the buff to fall
lofty swan
Is Triple SS still best Traits?
strange python
hey guys, are we getting nerfed again in 8.1?!
frosty arrow
i wouldnt think so but not much is known currently
strange python
dude im reading the changes and this can't be real
frosty arrow
please link
long osprey
damn SS fell far from what bloodmallet shows
strange python
frosty arrow
yes it did with the 40% nerf
boreal spoke
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
strange python
what about this nerf though, i don't think this is old: https://i.imgur.com/Ux9hUbY.png
7% nerf? is that real
long osprey
all good things must end it seems. at least were not unplayable like beginning of outlaw a few weeks into legion
frosty arrow
id suggest calming down about anything you see there
those are very early notes with nothing to ptr yet
no idea at this point what theyll keep or not
strange python
dude blizzard is a dogshit company, they don't care, they never care about proper class tuning
EVER
peak sapphire
ok
frosty arrow
thats.....not accurate.
strange python
that's completely accurate
can you imagine playing as the worst class in the game for years, having the worst DPS on a constant basis, being handicapped?
people don't really care but that doesn't change the fact it's a reality and blizzard gives 0 fucks
therefore yes, blizzard is completely dogshit at tuning
and for people that think DPS doesn't matter in your progress throughout the game, they are worthy of the misery
strange python
im speaking in general since you argued blizzard's tuning is somehow fine
celest basin
right? that's what i was wondering as a feral since vanilla when i was literally a liability on the group lol
frosty arrow
no you assumed thats what i said
strange python
you said it's not accurate that blizzard is a dogshit tuner, and im saying it's completely accurate
frosty arrow
all i said that youre saying theyve never gotten it right and dont care. and thats not accurate
strange python
idk buddy legion was the worst thing i have experienced in terms of class balance
and BFA doesn't seem different.
i swear to god if they nerf base 7% that's going to be ridiculous
im so fucking tilted though that my class has been nerfed 1 zillion times and i only discover im going to get nerfed again
hope it's just some bullshit.
random pollen
this thing you linked also includes the hotfixes from last week
strange python
i know.
nothing was said about 7% overall rogue nerf
never.
to my knowledge.
i think this is real though, the 7% is real
i would appreciate any kind of confirmation on the 7% btw
y
7% overalll ability damage nerf
Warning: This build seems to have many unfinished changes. Spell without any highlighted changes are likely just attribute/flag changes which have little impact on their use or functionality. This is the first PTR build, so nothing here is final.
no this can't be live (?)
there are new traits in there
dude what about the new trait
warriors get like 14% overall damage ability nerf
and they get 10 times mastery value or some shit
strange python
this says 8.1, this is not live although some part of it might be.
vast mulch
how hard can it be to fix that shit
strange python
7% is not live.
nothing was said about 7% EVER and such a HUGE nerf would be OFFFICIALLY announced in blue
vast mulch
what, another nerf?
strange python
possibly
not sure
they don't know either
from what it seems
till this shit goes live
vast mulch
omg
strange python
and commit shuriken harakiri
here you go buddy https://i.imgur.com/Ux9hUbY.png
perhaps it's too advanced to do the subtraction for some ppl
anyhow the whole changes format is somehow ambiguous and incomplete apparently
frosty arrow
i hate to be this guy but it seems like youre just content to bitch about blizzard in general and have chosen this hill to die on
strange python
i never trust blizzard going back on their word ever however.
frosty arrow
and quite frankly, this is why we dont ahve nice things
play the game or dont. but ive been in here for half an hour and its mostly you complaining
strange python
hey no hard feelings, i just know blizz is very bad on this matter as i have been cucked many times before in the past sorry
frosty arrow
thats not what being cucked is
strange python
are you sure
strange python
depends what you play tbh
vast mulch
so
rogues are nowhere near the top in dps logs
and they have nerfed in the last two patches
strange python
-7% we skyrocket
gleaming geyser
Being cucked would be blizzard promising you things and doing the opposite. Its not like blizzard is telling you to play rogue
strange python
ye ye im just saying diana
arctic isle
then come back and tell us what u found
vast mulch
in the last two patches they targeted rogues traits specifically
frosty arrow
rekt
strange python
it's like, arguing that blizzard is completely good in this sector of development
frosty arrow
noone is arguing that at all
gleaming geyser
The point is you care too much and there is nothing to argue about
strange python
whatever im crying too much and i shall stop sorry
frosty arrow
hes not even arguing based on facts
arctic isle
Warning: This build seems to have many unfinished changes. Spell without any highlighted changes are likely just attribute/flag changes which have little impact on their use or functionality. This is the first PTR build, so nothing here is final.
Many of these changes are recent hotfixes being merged into the baseline spell data.
reading poggers
strange python
implying there is any kind of trust left in blizzard is something i completely disagree with. however there's actually not much i can do so yeh
frosty arrow
can you double down more?
arctic isle
wow ur reading comprehension is cancer
frosty arrow
its like watching a trump debate holy fuck
strange python
im special
arctic isle
ur 7% nerf is already in the game
arctic isle
it was documented
frosty arrow
oh my god
arctic isle
the ones that had class changes
frosty arrow
hes doubling down again
strange python
ok mate.
frosty arrow
yo
vast mulch
I'm looking at the fucking blue tracker
frosty arrow
@strange python
supple hearth
!mute @arctic isle 1h don't call people stupid/personal insults general putting people down. this isn't the place for that.
frosty arrow
i disagree
strange python
im not even crying btw
frosty arrow
hes arguing to the point of being toxic
supple hearth
banter is fine. personal insults are not. this is a bully free zone. friendly reminder
gleaming geyser
You are crying too much
frosty arrow
ok but
again
he kept doubling down on his incorrect point
so it was less banter and more baiting
and toxic trolling
strange python
excuse me?
strange python
me?
frosty arrow
i said what i fucking said
odd minnow
this is a safe space
frosty arrow
yes you
strange python
how am i being toxic?
supple hearth
take it to DMs tbh lol
frosty arrow
and they get muted
frosty arrow
the fuck kind of shit
supple hearth
!warn @frosty arrow not going to ask u again btw
odd minnow
this is the internet
hardy pecan
ya whats an argument if people cant watch and take sides
frosty arrow
and im going to call it for what it is
frosty arrow
piss poor moderation
vast mulch
send me dms
frosty arrow
im not going to take it to dms ive got nothing to say to that clown
supple hearth
!mute @frosty arrow then you don't need to be here
strange python
as the game progresses forward i want to feel i get more powerful, i want to feel the progress itself. apparently when i got 3 nerfs within 2 weeks and im only discovering some undocumented nerf that might have been implemented under the hood or might be implemented in the future along with other (possibly positive) changes -- am i really bitching over here by showing my concern along with evident historical events in this particular sector of development? i just wanted some more information and some chit chatter even around it
but you are calling me toxic
this is way beyond me
hardy pecan
lol
strange python
idk what to say sisr
vast mulch
I like how blizzard always nerfs classes with 3 dps specs, meanwhile frost dks and warriors have had a top performing spec since legion opened lmao
proud stratus
Sharpened Blades is better than SS right?
vast mulch
@strange python I know what you mean, it's ridiculous that you would invest time in a class just for it to be gutted in 3 patches straight
vast mulch
it's just that people are too complacent to complain
strange python
come on
vast mulch
they are like "uuhhh blizzard knows what they're doing bro"
"I like being nerfed to the ground blizzard daddy, I DONT DESERVE THIS POWER"
odd minnow
complaining in a discord that blizzard doesn't read isn't going to change anything
gleaming geyser
Giggle can you also tell these two to take their blizzard crying over to DMs???
vast mulch
then why polarize instead of agreeing with us?
strange python
i just wanted to know if these changes are truly in effect already, more importantly
vast mulch
we should all be spamming in the official forums then
strange python
and seems like there's no proof about it
odd minnow
the change is literally just a spell/tooltip update
strange python
????
the change is literally a variable change that multiplies the standard base damage of all rogue abilities.
AKA flat nerfing
odd minnow
i have no idea how you can have such a strong opinion on something without actually doing any research and basing it on ur feelz
strange python
i just know how to read idk
vast mulch
because it has happened before
everytime you guys say "it's on the PT and bound to change, it's not final"
odd minnow
hawk
vast mulch
it ends up happening anyways
odd minnow
that is not what is being said
gleaming geyser
That has nothing to do with this discussion
odd minnow
the change you are both crying about is a fucking update on the spells and tooltips in game
vast mulch
IT"S ON THE PTR
strange python
dude listen to yourself
update to the tooltip but the spell what? doesn't do less damage?
what are you even saying
vast mulch
"IT JUST THE (TOOL)TIP"
odd minnow
spell data
strange python
and im the one who's improperly crying and complaining when people respond like "it's just the tooltip don't worry"
L M A O
it could be correct this 7% flat came under the hood with the 5% sub nerf in the beginning
undocumented.
but it's just speculation at this point
odd minnow
this the equivalent to people crying about the wage gap without researching it and realizing it isn't real
strange python
justifying undocumented changes though, idk how you want to live like that
gleaming geyser
Oh boy
odd minnow
tell me this was all bait so i can restore faith in sin players
strange python
im completely serious about getting mad over undocumented changes.
gleaming geyser
Just block both and come back tomorrow
strange python
it's the definition of being unprofessional
supple hearth
I don't think anyone is going to argue against being upset that blizz has awful communication skills
or surprised
odd minnow
what?
gleaming geyser
This conversation has brought nothing of value to this channel
vast mulch
how come
strange python
what is value if they are taking it away weekly (without even letting you know)
frank shard
what does our opener look like without shrouded now?
vast mulch
just some days ago the "community" was complaining about the lack of openness and communication from blizzard
undocumented changes are part of that
lmao
it has happened a lot before
odd minnow
Many of these changes are recent hotfixes being merged into the baseline spell data.
it really makes you think
vast mulch
it's absurd that you are trying to normalize this
distant coral
Hello - for AoE, Crimson Tempest or Poison Bomb?
strange python
crimson tempest
hot snow
Sorry asking a derp question - Are we still stacking 3x SS?
oblique fox
For m+ yes
hoary rapids
Question do you all prefer CT or PB for WM?
warm hatch
say im doing M+ and theres 3 targets, i garrote each of them, rupture @ 5 cp, do I pop exsanguiate and vendetta str8 away? or do i put 2 garrotes on the other 2 mobs 1st?
strange python
@hoary rapids CT, this week is CT everywhere no question about it IMHO
@warm hatch i think you must put all ruptures up running asap to get better uptime
warm hatch
so i would put 2x rupture on the other mobs and then just pop vend/exsanguinate on the highest prio?
then spam FoK and CT
strange python
y 5cp rupture it
warm hatch
until it falls off
oblique fox
I think it's better to pop vendetta/exsang first because then the main target gets the full vendetta on the buffed garotte
Just tested it, seemed to do more damage
At least on 3 targets, with more CP generation it might be better to just apply ruptures
lone halo
with subterfuge but no ss, on pack pulls, do you still garrote just 3 mobs and then wait until those wear off completely before applying anymore?
strange python
@oblique fox does that apply to not stacked SS builds?
oblique fox
Yeah, due to the bug
Not sure, only tested with 3 SS
Without stacked SS i'd assume it's better to just get ruptures up
Oh, Emori, with no SS it wouldn't matter
warm hatch
oh is SS still bugged
oblique fox
Yeah
warm hatch
so you only want 3 garrotes out right
dont wanna cast a garrote out of subterfuge
if i understood it correctly
oblique fox
Yeah, you can vanish and apply 3 more but has to be during sub
warm hatch
until theyve fallen off
onyx falcon
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
onyx falcon
^
strange python
@warm hatch don't forget it's only about 3 targets, for more targets you would lose more uptime on vendetta to get the ruptures up
oblique fox
^
winter gale
Guys
Anyone knows whats the best opener for Master Assassin
Is it similar to one in legion?
warm hatch
@strange python so for like 5-6 targets just garrote/5x rupture 3 targets and just do normal rotation?
quartz wraith
Can somone fill me in on the 7% nerf we are suppose to have gotten? Im scrolling in chat, but its only filled with people being concerned and mad about the change. ty
strange python
@warm hatch i think you just rupture everything but the prio target asap, then 5cp rupture vendetta exsg on prio and then spam fok unless you want to actually get more dmg on the prio target which is less damage overall i think
but am not sure
brave gyro
Do you find yourselves not using gale in M+? More often than not, i need to move out ofi t
brave gyro
i have a 355 gale and a 375 on use Agi trinket which i use whenever i go TB. But i guess yeah, gale with exsang is the go to
winter gale
Should I rather stick to subterfuge than Master Assassin since dps increase is 0.6% on simming myself?
I cant find valid info in Master Assassin proper opener or anything similar regarding that.
drowsy summit
Only 0.6% strange those talents are a massive difference for me
winter gale
Ill just stick to Ravenholdt and since there is a valid no SS opener with subterfuge im gonna go subterfuge.
quasi herald
Anyone reading PTR stuff? Looks like we might be getting slice and dice back.
civic palm
I'd wait until the datamining is more finalized.
quasi herald
Yeah, I know. I just mean there's potential :D
odd minnow
nah it was there in beta
quasi herald
Ah, ok.
drowsy summit
God I hope not lol
Fair enough it would be op having it back but I’m starting to get tired of changing my armour on a weekly basis to go with the nerfs
civic palm
Also note that a lot of early datamining will find old PTR/Beta values.
drowsy summit
Yea bliz don’t tidy anything up
slim shuttle
hey guys 😃 Master Assassin sims better for me ST than Subterfuge atm - does MA change the opener? What do I Vanish for? I cant seem to find anything about this in the guides. Thank you for your answer 😃
civic palm
It's not Blizzards job to clean up what dataminers find.
Should probably ENV after Vanish with Master Assassin. @slim shuttle
That's the only change.
slim shuttle
okay - thanks
civic palm
If you wanna see the Opener that the APL does with Master Assassin you can open the HTLM output and look for the Sample Sequence.
quasi herald
I guess if you go MA. You vanish for vendetta + toxic blade window for extra combo and envenom within the window
civic palm
ENV hits harder than TB as well, so you want as many ENVs during the MA+TB window as possible.
supple lagoon
Ok I have an issue. I was in Heroic Uldir today with a pug and a Sin rogue with less gear than me and less % 2ndary stats in everything except 1.1% more mastery was outdamaging me by a significant portion. I was looking at details and both his bleeds did between 150-200k more damage but my bleeds hit more often, crit 30% more often, and were cast more often than him. How is that possible?
terse musk
@supple lagoon what are his traits and yours?
supple lagoon
same traits except I have laser and he has other one
drowsy summit
What was his?
supple lagoon
the other uldir one
whatever it's called
I have laser matrix and he has the other one
terse musk
Same talents?
supple lagoon
ya
drowsy summit
What talents?
supple lagoon
both using exanquinate
drowsy summit
Strange I thought matrix out performed that one
terse musk
Were you overwriting SS garrotes?
supple lagoon
no
I wait until it goes away and immediately recast
even if i have to skip a global
white lark
hey guys, i imported a script for rogue buffs into weak aura, when i type /wa it shows the preview of the HUD, but when i go infight it doesn't show up at all? what could be the reason
supple lagoon
i have generally around 99% uptime with garrote and I only overrite rupture
drowsy summit
Can you link logs or not?
tall talon
do we still use 3x SS for m+?
supple lagoon
unfortunately I don't generally log pugs.
drowsy summit
Yea
supple lagoon
I should have
outer acorn
yes we do @tall talon
tall talon
aight thanks
terse musk
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
Not doing that either yes?
drowsy summit
What about trinkets?
terse musk
Also, not sure how much of a factor it is though - did he have higher ilvl daggers than you?
supple lagoon
@terse musk im confused
drowsy summit
What’s your opening rotation? @supple lagoon
supple lagoon
garrote > rupture > garrote > vendetta > mut > rupture > exsanguinate > mut > mut > Envenom > mut > mut > envenom
terse musk
Confused about what?
supple lagoon
about what that bug is referring to
drowsy summit
You and the other rogue running the same azerite traits? Welll apart from that one
drowsy summit
If you use a garrotte outside of subterfuge it basically fucks it
terse musk
If you apply garrote with SS during sub - all the applied garrotes loose the SS dmg buff if you garrote something outside of SS/Sub
terse musk
multi-targets
supple lagoon
like from other rogues?
ohhhh
interesting
but that doesn't change my issue tho
cuz it was vectis single target
terse musk
If you SS 3 and G a 4th - all 4 are now baseline G’s
supple lagoon
yeah that makes sense
good to know for aoe
but for single target, i still don't get how this guy's rupture and garrote did more damage than mine
terse musk
Did he have higher ilvl daggers than you?
supple lagoon
when mine hit more often, were cast more often, and crit 30% more often
I mean, i doubt it but I can look him up real quick
west cove
hey guys, long time rogue here seeking some M+ advice really
terse musk
Bleeds scale of weapon dps
west cove
on ST fights or with 1 add I can meet or exceed my sim pretty consistantly, unless mechanics come into play
i need to improve my aoe consitancy tho
supple lagoon
ok so he has 2x 370 daggers and i have 2x 365 daggers
but overall my ilvl and stats are all higher than his
terse musk
That would be the diff I think
drowsy summit
Weapon is king stat @supple lagoon
civic palm
Not if the DMG is substantial.
west cove
on 3+ mobs im oppenning 3x garrote from stealth, apply rupture, FOK, rupture, FOK rupture, FOK, FOK envenom
is post opener aoe literally fok spam apply ruptures?
winter gale
@civic palm can u link me that Master Assassin Html
drowsy summit
Are you running x3 SS @west cove
winter gale
Thank you, ur the man
onyx wind
Dont run toxic blade if you have galecalleer
terse musk
Sim yourself and him Jossi - whats the diff?
west cove
dagger in back. laser matrix, SS
civic palm
Their name/etc.
terse musk
Hope he had the same spec on armory and quick sim hi
west cove
if we have 3x targets is mutilate only used to apply envenom?
onyx wind
what
west cove
and if so is that early in pull
west cove
ok cool
terse musk
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/quick - just input him there
west cove
so just fok spam
winter gale
If I play Master Assassin is Master Poisoner also what shoud I go? Couse for me best sim is EP+MA @civic palm
onyx wind
obv
civic palm
EP won for me as well.
west cove
enevnom early or apply ruptures?
onyx wind
EP is thee beest
supple lagoon
I sim 1.3k higher
winter gale
So its mostly similar to Legion opener with Mantle ?
supple lagoon
i did 4.31m dmg to boss and he did 4.12m dmg to boss. I beat him in damage but his bleeds did so much more than mine
quasi herald
Master poisoner doesn't affect envenom. Just the actual poison @winter gale
onyx wind
Opener depends on your traits
terse musk
Hard to say without the logs then
supple lagoon
quasi herald
Just druid with that specific talent
sinful lotus
@onyx wind What's the reasoning for not running TB with Galecaller's?
Even if TB sims higher with GC for me?
onyx wind
What talent builds/traits do you usee to sim thee difference?
sinful lotus
I have 2DD 1 SoB
knotty storm
hey guys, how much downtime does assassination have? It feels like a slow spec at first glance
supple lagoon
Do you use exsanguinate on CD or do you hold onto the 3rd cast to light it up with vendetta?
pseudo finch
Man, I went to bed and exeo was spreading knowledge, I wake up, exeo still helping mofo
onyx wind
on cd
supple lagoon
so your 2nd vendetta doesn't stack with exsanguinate?
sinful lotus
So @onyx wind You're basically saying that I'm ok to keep using TB since I'm not stacking any SS? However, if I still had SS equipped, then Xsang would be best and therefore GC would be essential and using TB with it would be a waste?
undone cairn
Ya
onyx wind
aye
sinful lotus
Ok right on, you guys rock!
supple lagoon
exsanguinate and vendetta don't line up. 45s CD vs 2m
undone cairn
I don't even know if I want a galecallers anymore
onyx wind
Did you test it?
undone cairn
Is it time for dead eye spy glass
onyx wind
With holding vendeetta for vanish?
undone cairn
Hmm
supple lagoon
do you burn vanish right after xsang + 1st ss garrote?
cuz I usually save vanish for 2nd vendetta
pseudo finch
what the