assassination

[little sparrow]

Anytime @icy cedar

[strange python]

@icy cedar In the end, play what you find fun tho

[lone junco]

I still use exang in Uldir, but its because it sims higher.

[strange python]

Since that's all gaming should be about imo

[lone junco]

for me. due to traits.

@strange python fun is overrated.

dmg is fun

[strange python]

@lone junco hence you're having fun 😉

[lament dove]

so dmg is overrated...?

[lone junco]

https://giphy.com/gifs/cat-discussion-lists-5LU6ZcEGBbhVS

im fun at parties

[little sparrow]

I mean as far as the 3 specs go, they are all so close you can play whatever

[bright shale]

So to confirm. There isnt much dps loss doing a 4 vs 5 CP rupture

[little sparrow]

Obviously everyone here leans sin

[strange python]

@little sparrow I change day to day Sin & Outlaw

[little sparrow]

There is no dps loss doing a 1 point rupture vs a 5 point if the target doesn't live the dot

The damage is normalized

[lone junco]

@bright shale to be very specific. the damage from any cp value on rupture is the same. duration is extended.

there is Energy return based on duration of remaining rupture.

aim for 4/5cps in st.

there would be dps loss if you tried for 5 every time.

occasionally you can do lower cp ruptures to clip EP for SS window.

[gloomy jasper]

Once empowered garrotes fall off in m+ should we be reapplying or just fok spam

[lone junco]

you get 1 every 6 sec

[little sparrow]

Reapply

[lone junco]

if your crit were high enough to get 5cps every fok, then might not be a big deal. but you will fok 1-3cps garrote fits there.

[little sparrow]

If there's 6 mobs you want all 6 ruptured/poisoned and 3 empowered garrote

[lone junco]

I only rupture elites. specifically

[little sparrow]

Then once those garrote run off slowly reapply normal rotes

It'll catch on noobe

[lone junco]

if it is a baddy pack, you can vanish ggg again

[gloomy jasper]

All packs are baddys this week :(

[little sparrow]

If we all start using it we can make rote catch on

[lone junco]

I ran some extra keys the last night of OP SS.

❤

[little sparrow]

This week is ez idk what people are complaining about

[lone junco]

my hunter "why the fuck am i even here"

[little sparrow]

Tyrannical is way harder than fortified

[gloomy jasper]

This week is fine just hard to time +10s in pugs

[hollow escarp]

fortified weeks are "hard" because people underestimate trash in dungeons

[gloomy jasper]

Tanks underestimate trash*

[strange python]

Bursting was worse in my opinion since people are used to cleaving down big packs asap

[hollow escarp]

i think they qualigy as people

[vast berry]

dps that hold cds underestimate trash**

[strange python]

most stacks win! hehehehe

[little sparrow]

Like as long as the tank respects our restealth it's fine

[lone junco]

I think fort is way harder

like the double matrons in underrot

[vast berry]

you are a rogue, you can skip

[lone junco]

we skip the first time, but then wipe due to dumb shit

[little sparrow]

If you wipe 2 times within 6 minutes

It isn't the map

It's the group my man

[lone junco]

no shit. it is always the group

[little sparrow]

And it's never us because were always stealthed like good boys

[lament dove]

yeah, get a druid healer or tank and just wipe on the matrons into res:)

[gloomy jasper]

Still yet to find a group that's willing to hero on a trash pack

[little sparrow]

The pack before first boss in FH is pretty OOF without CC

[gloomy jasper]

I need better friends

[hollow escarp]

neah, we will hero on a 25 sec boss fight

[lone junco]

^

[little sparrow]

Lmfao

6k

[sand canyon]

@lone junco teach me the way noobe

[strange python]

@lone junco ilvl? /drool

[lone junco]

@sand canyon run with shittier people, and you can steal all the deeps

[gloomy jasper]

Worst was yesterday, used hero in ataldazar on the princess that deals 25% of her own health to herself each cast

[hollow escarp]

true, same goes for warcraft logs

[sonic spindle]

Hi, it’s me, your shittier people.

[hollow escarp]

go with pugs, easy logs

[little sparrow]

Are people logging M+? :O

[hollow escarp]

I do sometimes

[lone junco]

my point was, we wipe to dumb shit, and have to kill double matron on fort teeming. = 😦

[sand canyon]

@lone junco thats so wise

[little sparrow]

Noooo not like this dude

[sand canyon]

[little sparrow]

I'm gonna get even more addicted

[inland knot]

Shrouded Suffocation is nerfed to death right ?

[little sparrow]

Nope it's fine @inland knot

[lone junco]

@sand canyon whats your backup cleave dmg outlaw or sub? im going to move away from SS. and see if our group can handle bigger pulls

[inland knot]

as i have it stacked 3 times.

[strange python]

not just OP anymore

[little sparrow]

It was so OP a 40% nerf and it's still good

[hollow cloud]

Yeh its a yinkers Noobe

[sonic spindle]

Stories of SS’s death have been greatly exaggerated

[hollow cloud]

I only use assa for raiding anyway so

[analog glade]

Garrot bugged ?

[sand canyon]

what do u mean bybackup

[analog glade]

With Subt ?

[sand canyon]

i can just tell taht sub is super underestimated right now

[fervent warren]

Does anyone know how viable master assassin is now compared to subtrefuge?

[lone junco]

if you didnt play ss. what would you run for bulk teeming dmg.

[little sparrow]

SOB prob pretty good

[lone junco]

tbh, the ONLY reason I dont want to play outlaw, is id rather TF socket daggers.

[little sparrow]

Consistent constant dps, on big pulls

[sonic spindle]

Some people are saying to run MA if you don’t have SS to run subterfuge with.

But obviously you gotta sim city

[willow pulsar]

Sub is so bad on pulls with 2, 3 targets

[sand canyon]

@lone junco if u wanna blast aoe cleave u wanna run outlaw

but if u already have blast in grp, sub is by far the superior choice

[dusk sun]

whats the optimal way to utilize envenom windows

may I know

[sand canyon]

and also for shrine/waycrest/toldagor sub is bis

sin > law

[inland knot]

3x Sharpened Blade > 3 x SS ?

[little sparrow]

What trait with sub? I feel like the spec is so meh I don't see it

[lone junco]

we run warlock or moonkin. and If i want them to do better we gotta pull more. If we are to pull more, I should probably adjust away from SS.

[sand canyon]

when i play it soon im gonnat ell u then tell me its meh @little sparrow

[compact parrot]

@lone junco Just to be clear, when you write "occasionally you can do lower cp ruptures to clip EP for SS window." do you mean cast ruptures with less cp if you can chain ep during the empowered garrote phase?

[little sparrow]

Aight lmk I'm curious

[lone junco]

@compact parrot yeah. you can adjust the sim to >=3cps for rupture and last time I checked it was a wash for ST unless the exang rupture.

[sand canyon]

u can do 60k aoe as sub

while alos blasting prio dmg

[fervent warren]

Opener with master assassin should be the same as subtrefuge without shrouded suffocation, right?

[dusk sun]

what does envenom window mean? how is it properly utilized?

[analog glade]

Garrot is again bugged plz ?

[little sparrow]

I don't know how, what trait? Aren't they all meh on sub?

[lone junco]

@analog glade garrote was never fixed

[wheat zealot]

Sub doesnt rely on traits to do good aoe

[spice nymph]

I wonder when they will fix it eventually

[compact parrot]

@lone junco Ty!

[lone junco]

@sand canyon ok. Ill give it a go. did a few hundred M+ as dfa sub in legion. will just take a little adjustment, and ill do ok.

ill never be great, but storm/evis spam prob not that hard.

[wheat zealot]

Yeah the aoe wont blow anyone away, but the funneled priority dmg is unmatched

[sand canyon]

@lone junco u just dont wanna play like cleave pure dungeons with sub

everything else is fine

[slender hare]

I imagine KR must feel horrible as sub

havent tried it with sub yet

[sand canyon]

yy

kr for example no sub for sure

[slender hare]

well unless you do some big daddy pulls

[sand canyon]

atal is fine

cause of dragons

[slender hare]

yeah

[sand canyon]

kr is only dungeon where sub is just bad

subs weakness was always cleaving

[limber dagger]

guys if i rupture with 1cp and after that with 4 cp, is it the same as if i'd rupture with 5 cp?

[slender hare]

how is sethraliss as sub? mob density there aint too big

[willow pulsar]

How about enveloping shadows and smashing single target

[sand canyon]

temple is also sin

alot of big st bosses

[slender hare]

yea thats what i thought

[sand canyon]

and only 1-2 big pulls

[slender hare]

I've switched to sub, and just gonna play sin for KR and sethra

[analog glade]

Noobe i try without subt after my X3 Gorrote 😄

x3 Garoote Subt 4k9 without subt, x3 garrote 2k3

[lone junco]

you need subterfuge to play ss.

[analog glade]

Yes

i have

[willow pulsar]

You need subterfuge for m+ let's be honest

[analog glade]

But after my x3 garrote

[lone junco]

ah. just reporting the bug

[dull spruce]

has anyone done temple this week? are the bosses harder this week?

[strange python]

Tol Nodaggor

[willow pulsar]

Opening with 3 garrotes every pack is mandatory for en regen, i can't even imagine other taleny than subterf

[limber dagger]

guys if i rupture with 1cp and after that with 4 cp, is it the same as if i'd rupture with 5 cp?

and if not, how does the Exs opener work? cause you Garrote > Rupture > Garrote > mut > rupture again, and those are not 5 combo points each, which would mean i would loose damage and uptime?

[granite estuary]

what traits for m+ since the nerf?

[slender hare]

@limber dagger the second rupture is a 5cp rpture

because Garrote gives 3 cp with SS

[lone junco]

@limber dagger no

it is a 4cp rupture with 0.3x1cp duration added

5cp is 24 1+4 is 22.4

[limber dagger]

ah i see, thanks

[lone junco]

well. not counting the duration of the 1cp prior to the 4 application

so yeah. about the same.

easy to test overall dmg from both instances.

[void gazelle]

Is Crimson tempest good for m+?

[limber dagger]

can someone explain that to me?: Rupture, refresh with 7.2 seconds remaining at 5 combo points, or 6 seconds remaining at 4 combo points... shouldnt it be the other way around? Since if i have less time left, i need more CP to get to the max duration, am i wrong?

[vapid oracle]

4 combo points only has a max pandemic value of 26 seconds

while you can hit 31 seconds with 5 CP i believe are the right numbers

[solid nova]

It's pandemic

[limber dagger]

ooh i see, i didnt know the pandemic effect changes with having higher cp

[solid nova]

Where you'll refresh your rupture before it expires, the duration that was left is added to the new Rupture DoT, up to a maximum of 30% of the original duration

So 30% of the original value, based on CPs

6 CPs if DS is taken is like 8.4 or some shit

[strange python]

mind=blown

[solid nova]

Technical terms btw

[terse rune]

on how many targets do we keep the CT dot up? and is there a number of adds where we spam CT just for the initial dmg it does?

[marble hemlock]

Ive always had a problem with the phrase "original value" since that could just as easily refer to the old rupture, while it is the base-duration of the new rupture that can be increased by up to 30% if the effect is already present on the target.

[strange python]

it's in the guides/pins

whaddup incarn

[lethal seal]

any ideas on how the opener looks with master assassin?

[tulip willow]

what is the rotation for crimson tempest

guide dosnt make any sence to me

[terse rune]

yeah there isnt really sth about CT in guides

[versed finch]

I think you continue using ct unless rupture needs to be refreshed

[versed finch]

Until 2 adds then move to envenom

[tulip willow]

that dosnt help

[terse rune]

that doesnt answer any of my questions aboth @limber dagger

[void gazelle]

For one target should i use CT?

[versed palm]

anyone use CT for Zek'voz or other add phase fights? or just stick with TB?

[limber dagger]

CT when the dot is about to expire otherwhise you envenom?

[versed finch]

No don't use ct on ST

[limber dagger]

and CT applys AOE dot, so there is not a max number of how much you apply it

[terse rune]

yes but there isnt a number of targets just ''cleave'' and i doubt its worth using it on 2

[limber dagger]

3 target

[marble hemlock]

Dont use CT on singletarget, you can use CT on 2 targets if all your other dots are present and if they run sufficiently long enough for you to be able to refresh them after using CT, use CT at 3+ targets under pretty much all circumstances, as long as the dot runs full duration.

[tulip willow]

why do i still need to use envenom

[strange python]

damage

[little frigate]

you spam CT from 6 targets upward

[tulip willow]

how the fuck am i suppost to manage ct and envenom

[calm bough]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[marble hemlock]

(and if youre running azerite like doubledoese or TTK, that obviously changes your priorities regarding CT on low-target counts since envenom becomes higher priority due to these traits, and CT is competing with envenom)

[little frigate]

you only refresh CT's dot with fewer than 6 and dont use it at all with fewer than 2

you're not harv

6 and upwards you stop using envenom and just finish with CT

fewer than 3 i meant.

for the dot

[terse rune]

thats what i was looking for, thanks a lot

[tulip willow]

so for a average m+ pull fuck envenom

[little frigate]

dunno, we hardly pull more than 4 mobs in higher keys

[limber dagger]

same

[terse rune]

applying rupture should still have a higher prio than CT right?

[little frigate]

yeah

[wide gale]

Hey Guys, Looking For Smart Guy To Tell Me Which Options Do I choose For M+ Simming For Assassination Rogue ! http://prntscr.com/kx2fha

[tulip willow]

and do i ever cast fan

[terse rune]

sure

[little frigate]

bsacicall: gar, gar, gar, rup, rup ,rup, CT --> envenom spam

basically

[wide gale]

Noct No

[terse rune]

3+ targets

fan

[little frigate]

why not benzie

[wide gale]

Noct Don't listen To These

[marble hemlock]

@wide gale 40sec, 6t, patchwerk, no buffs

[tulip willow]

fuck me i wanted to play rogue not solve a math equation

[little frigate]

its not very complicated though

[wide gale]

Noct After 3 Garrote U Should Use CT Then Build For Rupture.

[marble hemlock]

check the html report for the damage distribution, compare it to the one you get in a decent dungeon, and if theyre ~same then you can take the weights at face value

[tulip willow]

im dumb

[little frigate]

ah good point

i usually rup first though

[tulip willow]

beter question when doing high keys what the best to go

[little frigate]

i usually just go PB

[void gazelle]

Can i use 4 cp envenoms or build 5 cp every time?

[marble hemlock]

i usually do CT, unless the 3 garrotes didnt get DP application from autoattacks, then i rup -> exsang quickly to get a surge in energy

[terse rune]

@void gazelle u use it at 4+

[little frigate]

chopy, use it at 4 UNLESS you need to refresh garrote

[tulip willow]

@little frigate is that for aoe or more single target

[little frigate]

which grants 1 cp

never use CT onst harv

[wide gale]

@marble hemlock which Simc Version Weekly Or Nightly?

[marble hemlock]

i always use nightly

[little frigate]

same

[tulip willow]

ok even better question is assasin ment to play aoe or more single target

[wide gale]

@marble hemlock Why You tell me To Choose Patchwerk ????

[marble hemlock]

aoe

[wide gale]

I said M+

[little frigate]

what do you mean @tulip willow

[tulip willow]

cause my aoe damage in m plus is shit

[marble hemlock]

because hectic addcleave adds fights throughout the sim, so its the number of targets and some more, whereas 6target patchwerk basically works like a 6target council fight, which is closer to what trash in dungeons actually is

[little frigate]

While sin can do both, its main strength is st.

[marble hemlock]

wat

[little frigate]

you can do more aoe damage as outlol with less effort

[calm sable]

does anyone tried 3xsharpened blades instead of 3xshroud suff

[wide gale]

its GOod For Single @calm sable

Raid

[strange python]

if you can handle the playstyle it is good

[wide gale]

For M+ Still 3 SS

[tulip willow]

ah thanks my group consists of me a affliction lock and a fury warrior so our aoe is shithouse recomd me me going outlaw

[wide gale]

Noob

[calm sable]

thats what i thought because of the constant restealth @wide gale

[tulip willow]

thanks for the help your talking to a old bc / wrath player who played pallie and everything was faceroll

[marble hemlock]

if you wanna focus on ST, play sub. assas strength is sustained aoe.

[solid nova]

^

[marble hemlock]

literally our entire toolkit is build around being able to maintain a certain dps (which with the current tuning is very high) on prolonged aoe situations because we have no meaningful aoe cooldown to begin with

and the reason assa was so strong (and still is) is because SS traits make up for the one problem we used to have in these aoe situations, which would be our ramp-up

[strange python]

outlaw starts to feel rather weak in 8+ keys compared to sin due to blade flurry charges

[tulip willow]

@marble hemlock thats makes perfect sense ty

[calm sable]

crimson tempest doesnt grant +energy right?

[marble hemlock]

that is not to say that combat/sub are worse, all 3 roguespecs are in a very good spot right now

[north terrace]

No it doesn't

[visual token]

Imagine if it did tho

[marble hemlock]

combat is more bursty, so if you enjoy a cd-based aoe toolkit more, then you might want to run that one

[calm sable]

if CT would grant +energy i would be capped all day

[wide gale]

OUTLAW IS DEAD Pls Stop Talking About It Here, Go Talk In Outlaw Channel. Sin Does More Aoe Dmg Than OutLaw.

[visual token]

It would be hilariously strong

Lol

[amber temple]

@wide gale Can You Not Type Every Letter With First Letter Capital"

[solid nova]

It's not dead, don't come out with ridiculous comments like that.

A lack of knowledge on the spec isn't a compensating reason to blurt out its current state

[marble hemlock]

richard vs sarcasm

[solid nova]

If only

[limber dagger]

for mass AOE, do you still Rupture 3 targets to maintain the energy regen or do you just apply garrote into spam CT? (Talking about 6+ mobs)

[strange python]

BF changes?

[marble hemlock]

you want to stop using garrote alltogether on bigger packs fabio

[limber dagger]

Even Garrote? 😮

[amber temple]

What? And just fan of knives instead_

wiwht envenom?

[marble hemlock]

garrote is a CP builder, so it competes with fok when it comes to how to use your energy. on bigger pulls a single fok generates more CP and deals more damage than a single garrote. and since you want to multi-rupture anyway, the energy-gain you get from VW ticks from garrote are not a concern.

[little sparrow]

Worth CTing and FOK with 2 targets? I usually don't just curious what you guys think

[amber temple]

@marble hemlock cool, thanks for a thorough answer :)

[marble hemlock]

on smaller pulls, say 3 mobs, having garrote up on 2 of them is however the best option

since, you know, fok deals less damage (hits less target) per execution than garrote, and you cant sustain ~35energy/sec with just 3 ruptures anyway

[clever coral]

2-2-3-2-2-2-3 go to talent for m+?

[dapper moat]

For raidin is 2xss1xarchieve valid choise? Input needed. 😊

[versed palm]

I just went with 2 archives & 1 ss as of last night

but am open to reforging 😃

[dapper moat]

How it went,lor?

[marble hemlock]

@clever coral 2212233

[limber dagger]

@marble hemlock how many ruptures would you try to keep up for mass aoe, without garrote my energy regen is gona be lower, so i suppose i need more ruptures, right?

[marble hemlock]

if youre having trouble playing around CT right now, you can swap to PB to get more comfortable with multi-dotting

[versed palm]

better than it had - 96th % on Mother, but could have done better on Fetid Devourer/Zek

[clever coral]

@limber dagger ah thanks, meant for 221 not 223 xD

[marble hemlock]

andthen try CT again at a later point, but CT is the higher damage option in that tier for almost all situations

i try to keep 5-7 ruptures on bigger packs, gives me some leeway in case i get stunned or have to go out of melee for kiting reasons so i dont immediately start starving energy again

i generally dont spam CT unless the pack is about to die

and envenom is not even worth talking about for aoe right now

[limber dagger]

Interesting

[dapper moat]

Hmm so 2x archi for uldir is good? I though it soes not stack? Or is it because array?

[versed palm]

i feel like on a fight like zek if you can time a vanish right to get the boss with an ss garrote along with 2 adds that multiple ss traits could be really solid still

[calm grail]

My go to (and tell me if I'm wrong) on a normal pack is the triple g opener into CT into rupture weaving and CT/Rupture maintenance while using CDs on the burn target.

[limber dagger]

that means you are basically just FoK > Rupture spaming the whole time, while keeping up CT dot

[clever coral]

does 1x archive 2x SS work for m+ or is 3 x SS better?

[marble hemlock]

yup

try to maintain 5CP CTs, makes for easier maintenance due to the higher pandemic window

[limber dagger]

@calm grail Garrote on CD for normal packs?

[calm sable]

dumb question can swap gear in m+?

can we*

[solid nova]

No

[marble hemlock]

so if youre at 4cp, and need to do another CT soon, you can just hit a non-buffed garrote for that last CP (provided the SS ones have run their duration). im not sure if its actually the best option, but it feels more efficient 😃

[shrewd night]

OUTLAW IS DEAD Pls Stop Talking About It Here, Go Talk In Outlaw Channel. Sin Does More Aoe Dmg Than OutLaw.

[calm grail]

Now one technicality I wanted to ask is Seli, if you have a burn target in a pack of I like 4 or 5, do you use two of your three garrotes on your primary target then rupture vendetta exsang, or would you still spread the garrotes to three targets then lay into the one with the single Garrote/rupture exsang.

This is assuming the pack doesn't have infested, if it's infested the answer is pretty obvious.

[marble hemlock]

hm

its a question ive been asking myself actually

technically it would be better to drop a full pandemic on the prio target and then burn it with exsang

[calm grail]

It makes me feel good, when another good player is having a similar problem

[marble hemlock]

but it feels bad

and the padder in me comes out in those situations, so i still triple garrote, and if anyone would ask me why, id say "i need 3 different targets for garrote for energy reasons"

[calm grail]

If it's infested it seems like the obvious answer because the other damage is superficial despite looking nice.

And I think even if the priority Target take slightly less damage, it might be worth overall to have 3 empowered garrotes out.

[marble hemlock]

(if people knew how exsanguinate works theyd argue that my energy sustain is secure for atleast 10seconds even if i double garrote the prio target)

[calm grail]

Because of the energy and damage

[terse rune]

do you guys take overwhelming power? its surely simming the best but i heard its shit when using

[calm grail]

I've started using it, just don't stand in fire.

[marble hemlock]

the question really just comes down to how your grp handles infested tho

for all non-infested prio targets you definitely want to 3target garrote

[calm grail]

Yeah

[marble hemlock]

for infested ones theres usually other ways to get it out of the pack

so that cleave dps still matters

[calm grail]

So we were doing a siege last night and did that cannoneer pack before 2nd boss.

[marble hemlock]

i.e. have your restodruid taunt it out and vortex it

[calm grail]

Shit from the spotters kills the infested.

[marble hemlock]

or have your boomy drop treants on the pack and then the dk tank single-grips the infested out and kites

[calm grail]

That was a fun little surprise

[marble hemlock]

since all mobs are slowed the same, theyll never be around the infested

stuff like that is usually better than blowing CDs just to kill the infested faster

[tender rune]

hey guys, so how does SIN feel after SS nerf?

[marble hemlock]

good

[calm grail]

For me using cooldown on infested typically comes down to how much HP it has.

[shy schooner]

is toxic blades better than exsanguinate for m+?

[calm grail]

Uhhh

If you don't use exsang right then yeah probably.

[clever coral]

whats the typical traits for m+? 3 SS? does 2 SS and 1 Archive work?

[calm grail]

If you like burst damage on priority targets then it's really good.

[solid lava]

what SIM ?

What's SIM sorry

[calm grail]

@clever coral you'd have to simulate what was better. Make sure to set the origination stacks to 0 though for the helm.

[shy schooner]

dumb question, garrote stacks on targets?

[lone junco]

Lol boomy trees and Dk grip. What if we don't have boomy or Dk. Yikes.

Ish.

2x pushes to max duration.

3is wasted.

[limber dagger]

Quick offtopic question; how much would you pay for a 375 item?

[calm grail]

Uhhh

[clever coral]

which setting should i use to sim m+?

[calm grail]

100k.

[versed palm]

Nope - garrote does not stack - it can be placed on multiple targets, but no stacking effects. take note of the bug with the SS azerite trait and garrote though

[marble hemlock]

no @shy schooner but it refreshes its duration to the maximum value (called pandemic) which would be the optimal way to do it if youre planning on using exsanguinate on that target for maximum priority target dps

[calm grail]

And if you have one add that you really hate, you can vanish and do it all over again for the last 10 seconds of vendetta.

But if it's taking all that to kill one add you probably have bigger problems with your comp.

I really need more alternate crit mastery gear for Mythic Plus.

[shy schooner]

@marble hemlock ty, so exsanguinate always with CT?

[marble hemlock]

no, you dont need CT for exsanguinate

especially not on singletarget, and even on aoe its not required

[wide gale]

@marble hemlock Hi Man , Can I See Ur Sim

[marble hemlock]

on aoe you dont use exsanguinate for the damage, you use it mainly for the additional energy you get via venomous wounds from the sped up dot-ticks

[calm grail]

CT is just more useful overall for m+ I believe.

Right?

[marble hemlock]

makes ramping up to your FULL POTENTIAL a lot smoother

ye

[calm grail]

More damage overall.

[marble hemlock]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/acL1tjXvBkV5eRcbAtwoK2

[opaque junco]

I guess it's a but more reliable than PB

[marble hemlock]

think this was my last ST one

[opaque junco]

But u still use BP on ST right?

[wide gale]

@marble hemlock How You Deal With These Bad Questions ? Some Ppl ASking Very Bad Questions.

[opaque junco]

PB*

[calm grail]

My best ST setup used TB

[marble hemlock]

most of the conversation has been about m+, so for m+ i pretty much never play PB

for singletarget TB+PB sims highest for me right now

only dungeon i played PB in was tyra temple at higher levels

[calm grail]

Just the pieces I've gotten recently have favored TB

[marble hemlock]

cause that 3rd boss is a joke

[calm grail]

My 385 DiTB with TB outsims my 385 SS with exsang

[lone junco]

Pb temple for praying rng gods for dps?

[calm grail]

Unfortunately it's making my raiding rotation boring a shit.

[marble hemlock]

yeah, my 385 pieces also.... nvm i only got 385 on my alts, my rogue got shit azerite 😦

[green saffron]

Hi, Is Versaltility stat any good for Sin? I keep getting versa gears.

[marble hemlock]

nah noobe

[opaque junco]

Not really

[marble hemlock]

its just

[calm grail]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jokUaPgF9xcbKr28RZojEZ

[opaque junco]

Or well, the other stats are better

[marble hemlock]

temple isnt even remotely close to go overtime unless the 3rd boss cockblocks you

[calm grail]

Current setup is making for some really boring play

[marble hemlock]

and with how close that boss is, id actually rather have the 2% pb for singletarget

[lone junco]

@green saffron haste crit for single. Crit mastery for aoe.

[marble hemlock]

than CT the entire rest of the dungeon

[opaque junco]

And haste mastery for PvP:^)

[wide gale]

@marble hemlock Whats ur http://prntscr.com/kx2zj8 Looks Like ?

[marble hemlock]

m+ or st?

[wide gale]

m+

[lone junco]

I wish blocked messages didn't pop up with spam boxes.

[marble hemlock]

same noobe

[calm grail]

Spam boxes?

[opaque junco]

"1 blocked message"

[marble hemlock]

you get the "1 blocked message" thing

so people with OCD will read it anyway

[calm grail]

Ahhh

[opaque junco]

It's a dumb feature

But Oh well

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/ByD1P/3df39e3a45.jpg

[wide gale]

🤔 only 4% Haste o.o

[marble hemlock]

its m+, no one needs haste for m+

http://puu.sh/ByD3F/003dc61f42.jpg

6t 40sec no buff sim

[inner pecan]

there's still ST in m+

and haste is your best ST stat

[hollow stone]

The idea is you make up more time on trash than bosses

[marble hemlock]

^this

[vapid oracle]

But m+ is 80% mt

[marble hemlock]

you usually have bloodlust for ~2 of the bosses, which devalues haste a bit, and galecallers helps out with the lack of haste aswell

[ebon garden]

is it worth keeping 1 SS trait for raids?

[wide gale]

Wait Guys Don't ASk Him, I'm Not Finished with Him

[marble hemlock]

and at the end of the day assa isnt a ST class like we used to be in legion, we're pretty much one of the top aoe specs right now, so id rather focus on improving our strength, than trying to fix our weakness

[wide gale]

@marble hemlock Did You Get Those Stats By Using The Simming Settings That You Told me About Earlier ? " 40sec, 6t, patchwerk, no buffs "

[marble hemlock]

ye

its just a rough estimate, since the multitarget APL isnt exactly great for 3xSS, but it does its job

the damage distribution in the sim lines up fairly well with actual live-results, so theres no reason not to trust those weights

[tender rune]

noob question here: what does ST mean?

[ebon garden]

is SS still BiS for m+?

[marble hemlock]

at the end of they you gotta keep in mind that while haste for singletarget is very important, having mastery instead of haste isnt a huge dps loss either, it might turn out to be like 1k (at that is putting it generous already) whereas the aoe-heavy gearing easily nets you 2-4k on trash

[ebon garden]

single target

[marble hemlock]

ST = singletarget

[calm sable]

well st opener is not that bad

[tender rune]

makes a lot of sense rn xD

[marble hemlock]

and yes, SS still seems to be the best option for m+, unless you can get your hands on high ilvl scent of blood

[inner pecan]

well yeah haste loses massive value as targets go up

but it's still decent on 2-4 targets tbh

[ebon garden]

i only got a 385 sharpened blades 😦

[inner pecan]

idk if I would agree with completely ignoring haste for m+

[clever coral]

patchwork or hectic add cleave for running sims for m+?

[inner pecan]

but definitely less prio on it

[tender rune]

oh, and anybody here can teach me how to sim like.. what dmg can do a sub (with specific traits) without having to change to sub in-game (and the perks)?

[lethal iris]

@marble hemlock 370 shoulders from the world boss w/ scent of blood better?

[marble hemlock]

compared to 340ss?

might be, id have to try it

385 definitely is

[wide gale]

Omg I Want To Add You As Friend On Discord Is That Ok @marble hemlock You Are Not Noob

[marble hemlock]

370 shoulders might still be SS; since shoulders have a lower item budget than chest/helmet

[shrewd night]

I guess opposites do attract

[late niche]

^ lmao

[kind steppe]

xd

Keep talking bois I'm learning things

[lethal iris]

What 370 shoulders have SS? Or do you just have to get lucky on end of week cache?

[glass chasm]

is there an option to track seliathans posts

[wide gale]

@marble hemlock https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dLfAC5tui7FmR4y5Nr42Dq I did The Settings That You Told me To Do , Should Import This to Pawn And Use It ?

[shrewd night]

Search by username

[glass chasm]

Ty got it

[marble hemlock]

cant hurt to have an additional pawn-string

[mortal rampart]

after reading the your advice to others past 2 days, Sel, my dmg and dps greatly improved. ty for sharing 😄

[marble hemlock]

keep in mind that i value crit over mastery, even though it sims lower, due to how it makes the rotation a lot smoother

[calm grail]

Those extra CPs

Mmm

[marble hemlock]

sim doesnt care for a couple of iterations where the CP generation was shit due to non-crits, if im trying to time a 15 i definitely do care 😄

[vapid oracle]

Yeah I got 385 sob been using that for m+ with 2 SS feels pretty nice

[calm grail]

Makes me miss the shoulders from Legion for getting that buttery smooth opener.

[true aurora]

Does Archive of the Titans stack? 2 Azerite pieces of AofT sim higher than 2 Azerite pieces of LT.

[plain thistle]

shit seli, you talking since I tagged you last day? did you slept at all? 😂

[marble hemlock]

or just give us the same 1cp per fok target that sub has, but that would probably be broken 😄

[calm grail]

If only Garrote worked better back then...

[marble hemlock]

nah, woke up like an hour ago

[true aurora]

LM*

[calm grail]

That would be stupidly good.

[plain thistle]

oh ok

[vapid oracle]

Just fix garrote bug blizzard pls

[glass compass]

Is ct better than pb for lower keys?

[calm grail]

I think so.

[marble hemlock]

id say yes

[haughty lily]

what is considered a lower key

[calm grail]

And there's some non numerical value to getting used to using it all the time for dungeons.

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/ByDhZ/50a8d77682.png

that metric doesnt change for lower keys

if anything, the shorter duration on CT compared to garrote/rupture might be even more reason to use it on lower keys

and PB is shit regardless of keylevel

[calm grail]

And it's pretty easy to use, it's not like rupture where you have to keep an eye on all your targets.

[glass compass]

Word I'll definitely give it a go tonight

[wide gale]

(IS It Worth Using x3 SS of 340 Items)------ Or ---- (One Item 370 lvl Archive Of Titans and 2 items 340 of SS) @marble hemlock

m+

[shrewd night]

Archive is dog shit in m+ imo

[glass compass]

And from what I've seen ss is still the better trait for m+s atm

[marble hemlock]

id say

[sick vine]

so ct is better then PS?

[marble hemlock]

go with 3SS

but thats me feelycrafting

[lament dove]

yes but keep in mind with PB you use CPs for other finishers, which also translates into dps
it's not PB that does the aoe, it's more FoK+DP because of more energy/envenoms
BUT defo try CT because it's better aoe nonetheless

[calm grail]

I had the same question and I compared the two situations you described and three SS pulled ahead when you set the origination stacks to zero

[marble hemlock]

especially on lowkeys there is no finisher that provides a decent aoe benefit though

all you can use it for is a rupture or envenom, both of which dont rally have all that much aoe benefit

and the rupture wont even run full duration in a lowkey

[calm grail]

I've just been spreading ruptures with like 2 combo points for the most part unless it's a big boy to establish energy regeneration early.

[lethal iris]

What's the current opinion on TB or Exsang for single target?

[calm grail]

Is that pretty common?

[marble hemlock]

yeah

i do the same

[mossy hazel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jQ46jZQkDN8kkVVSiu1Dc4

[marble hemlock]

low-cp ruptures early into the pull to keep the energy flowing, then refresh with higher ones later

[mossy hazel]

Geeze, haste is h igher than agi for me right now and I've been stacking it

[calm grail]

Yeah, because going for those full ruptures early on just feel so slowwww

And numerically it's probably a waste because on the smaller adds they might die before you get the full duration

[wide gale]

I Agree Nira

[marble hemlock]

for example i generally do ´g g g ct fok fok rup exsang´ and never do more than 2 foks, even if its just a 2cp rupture+garrote exsang

if id do a third fok there, id starve energy 5sec later

energy/cp management is hugely important, and if you do it well, its also very rewarding for dps

[calm grail]

Also, just comparing feelings here, but do you find that you weren't really casting envenom that much?

For packs.

[marble hemlock]

i dont think ive ever casted an envenom unless its the last mob of a pack, at 5%, and it already has a high duration rupture on it

[calm grail]

Yeah.

Thankfully rupture proccs EP

[marble hemlock]

if it doesnt have rupture and is close to dying, do 5cp rupture so youre at 170energy again after it dies and can instantly go into the next pack

[worthy carbon]

anyone know how to force max stacks on archive on a sim?

[calm grail]

Do you mean the passive buff or the trait itself?

[mossy hazel]

bottom of the input: bfa.reorigination_array_stacks="2"

I dont know what's considered max stacks though

[worthy carbon]

not the array the agility buff

[calm grail]

I can't think of a reason why you would want to force it, it naturally Rises during combat

[mossy hazel]

Oh, I see what you're saying, nevermind. No idea

[calm grail]

Are you thinking of like a situation where you never lose your stacks?

[worthy carbon]

because at the point i care about it will be 20 stacks

[wide gale]

I Vote For @marble hemlock To Be Admin, We Must Reward Him Guys.

Give Him Admin For Assassination At Least

[ebon garden]

BenZzz you do realize you dont have to capitalize every word, right?

[wide gale]

We Want @marble hemlock To Be Admin In This Room He is Very Helpfull, He Deserves IT

[glass compass]

So what's the status of tb vs exsang in m+? Is it a preference thing or a if u know how to use exsang properly thing?

[primal sigil]

yo guys any suggestion on opener for Zul heroic ?

[calm grail]

Did you really ping him for that?

[primal sigil]

i cant decide wen to go all in

[marble hemlock]

im not

[wide gale]

Ok

[haughty lily]

"yo guys any suggestion on opener for Zul heroic ?" i second this question

[mossy hazel]

Yea, I knew that wasn't going to go over well...

[keen inlet]

move there

[calm sable]

so fok and ct at 3 or more targets not 2?

[lone junco]

@marble hemlock I had a bis 6t40 sim result with 2ss 1scent Due to ilvl. But the 3ss beat it by 3% at even ilvl.

[primal sigil]

no i follow the rotation... but as in my opener.. how do i go about it.. is what i meant.. when do i vendettta /exsang all tht

[kind steppe]

Ya, when it's 2 target do you only refresh rupture / garrote or you also use CT

[wide gale]

@marble hemlock Hey Man, You Amazing And Awesome.. Is this Better Than Fathoms For m+ http://prntscr.com/kx3ent

[marble hemlock]

im pretty sure that gif is missing something don

probably, yeah

has decently high uptime, and makes up for the lack of haste you gear for on the other pieces

also you should be ashamed of playing a male belf, so fix that first please

[wide gale]

I'm Not Transgender, I'm Man

[calm sable]

equipment set "outlol"

[calm grail]

For a single Target raid boss are we still trying to maintain elaborate planning of time by any means necessary?

[little sparrow]

Lmao

[queen herald]

Hey guys ! What last row talent are u running in m+?

[little sparrow]

Yes @calm grail

All the top parsing rogues have good EP uptime

[glass compass]

@queen herald CT seems to be the preferred talent from me asking that same question earlier

[queen herald]

Alright thx i thinking of it

[primal sigil]

in my exp pb serves better untill 7 + .. but then again i ahvent done keys higher than 10 so cant really say

anyway.. once again.. a opener for Zul heroic will be great if anyone hs one handy ! cant seem to figure it out

[violet lintel]

neat, got a tf on galewind chimes... slightly better than cannon i have lol

[primal sigil]

i hate playing with cannon.. tht trinket reders useless most of the time , again from my exp

[glass compass]

Most rogues seem to go sub for zul, at least according to top logs

[primal sigil]

yeah, i will be swapping to sub myself

but i want to know if there is a specific opener as sin

also from what i saw heroic zul is more outlaw.. but i dont ahve good weapons so i swapped to sub

[late niche]

Zul as sub : shuriken storm, eviscerate, repeat

[glass compass]

I wouldn't know personally cuz I've been too lazy to find a new guild or even pug uldir so yea. But if u can't get any answers here just look at sin logs on zul

[near current]

you forgot nightblade 😛

[inner pulsar]

Anyone super familiar with the Simcraft APL?

[light tusk]

We are using burst strat on h zul in my guild. So I use normal st opener and dot the matron. I let others class deal with non cc'ed adds. I just focus on zul and the big add

[primal sigil]

i am not ashamed to admit.. i dont know hwo to go to tht part of the logs where it shows the skills used

[light tusk]

Sometime a few fok to generate cp

[primal sigil]

@light tusk thas exactly wat i was doing

dotting matron and busrsting zul, but wnated to know if there was any other eay

way*

[light tusk]

Well for sin prolly not. Small add die so fast not much u can do to them

[primal sigil]

yeah noticed tht, k thanks i think ill just swap over to sub, or if i get a good 1hander swap to outlaw

thank you !

[warm parcel]

Familiar with apl in what sense?

[inner pulsar]

So, the suggestion in the Apl is to pool a bit before using Envenom, and I am wondering what they are suggesting as the optimal level

envenom,if=combo_points>=4+talent.deeper_stratagem.enabled&(debuff.vendetta.up|debuff.toxic_blade.up|energy.deficit<=25+variable.energy_regen_combined|!variable.single_target)&(!talent.exsanguinate.enabled|cooldown.exsanguinate.remains>2)
Envenom at 4+ (5+ with DS) CP. Immediately on 2+ targets, with Vendetta, or with TB; otherwise wait for some energy. Also wait if Exsg combo is coming up.

Sorry, that reads poorly, but that is the line I am referencing

[warm parcel]

Id you use ``` around your text

You cane make it like this

[inner pulsar]

"envenom,if=combo_points>=4+talent.deeper_stratagem.enabled&(debuff.vendetta.up|debuff.toxic_blade.up|energy.deficit<=25+variable.energy_regen_combined|!variable.single_target)&(!talent.exsanguinate.enabled|cooldown.exsanguinate.remains>2)
Envenom at 4+ (5+ with DS) CP. Immediately on 2+ targets, with Vendetta, or with TB; otherwise wait for some energy. Also wait if Exsg combo is coming up."

Sig

[warm parcel]

Anyway

Wait for exs is to have stuff ready for exs, obviously

And regen for overall better spacing of envenom in case a 4 cp mut happens or something

[inner pulsar]

So I think the important piece is 'energy.deficit<=25+variable.energy_regen_combined'

[warm parcel]

And what the number is translated depends on your haste

[inner pulsar]

Making the question easy I guess, once I know what my energy regen is

[warm parcel]

As thats 25+ what ever will come from regen before said action

[inner pulsar]

Right

[warm parcel]

The variable is asserted higher up in the apl

If you look for it

[vernal mauve]

Is the darkmoon deck trinket worth the gold? Or is there better trinkets to increase dps number out there?

[warm parcel]

And its p much 7energy x bleeds you have and hasted /2

Or something along the lines

[inner pulsar]

YEah

Rupture granting more ect

[warm parcel]

But ultimately pooling isnt something one has to emphesise, if thats what youre after

[little sparrow]

Are you guys using exs on CD? Or saving the 3rd one for burst window?

[inner pulsar]

I'm sure there is a mathematically optimal answer, but in practice I'll probably just play around with it

[still hinge]

energy_regen_combined = energy_regen + poisoned_bleeds * 7 / (2*spell_haste)

[inner pulsar]

Ah, thank you!@still hinge

[sonic spindle]

After switching away from SS last night, my numbers felt horrible.

[inner pulsar]

Did you check to see if you were using the right talents after?

[sonic spindle]

I kept subterfuge

[inner pulsar]

Ok, thats probably not optimal

[sonic spindle]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LdYRbjXxHMn8Jz29#fight=6

I’m not a great player, but last week I was like 3k higher. It could totally be a l2p issue or maybe my uptime wasn’t as good I guess, but it feels really low

[static shore]

Hi guys what shouyld we use for raiding now ?

[blazing raptor]

@sonic spindle you beat me, but I am not that great either - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/g6Dn1mjqPLvfw2Kx#fight=16&type=damage-done

I just got back and still working on my uptime and rotations... I always forget to use vanish!

[hollow stone]

In general, for raiding, ilvl is king. But sim yo self for raid as it's "mostly" st

[inner pulsar]

@sonic spindle Your rupture uptime was a bit low, and your overall kill time was slow. How fast did you kill him last week?

[sonic spindle]

I also have to think about a non-SS opener now, the ss opener clicked so well and was so smooth 😦

[inner pulsar]

If you kept Subt, the opener would be the same, but again, probably should be using MA

[hollow stone]

Non ss opener is a bit clunkier but it makes your vend and vanish line up better for 2nd cd rotati

So pros n cons

[sonic spindle]

I did a normal fetid last week. I missed the h fetid, would that make a difference?

[inner pulsar]

Yes

[sonic spindle]

Well that makes me feel better, I figured dmg is dmg.

[inner pulsar]

We killed him in 2:41, you guys were 4:59. That is going to make a huge difference

If your normal kill was closer to the 2:30 mark, it is going to be big

[blazing raptor]

2:41 damn thats noice

[inner pulsar]

We were flying, best executed fight we have done

[robust rain]

Do we still take SS? I mean if i Look at The Tables on Hero damage SS ist still above DD even in single target. Andere Sache is much better in multi target.

[sonic spindle]

Our normal kill wasn’t much faster lol

[inner pulsar]

@robust rain

[sonic spindle]

We some bads 😦

[blazing raptor]

I had my best parse score ever last night on mother... but im still missing 50% of my CDs and SF's

im the worst

[dawn merlin]

fetid in hc dies so fast now that i cant get the 2nd exsang burst window xd

[inner pulsar]

@blazing raptor I vary wildly as well. I had a 78% parse on that Fetid (good for me) and then a whole bunch of green and grays after the same night

[robust rain]

Problem is, i dont have SS trait items, i Just Wanna Know If the Bonus Rolls are worth in SS Item

So yes typically i Sim myself🤔

[sonic spindle]

Last night I tried to focus on making sure I could double envenom during a TB and found myself holding TB for too long a lot.

[blazing raptor]

I don't want to talk about my last grays haha... I find vectis and zek terrible melee fights

[dawn merlin]

SS is still really good in mythic +, 1 uldir piece + 2 dd or 2 sharpened blades seems to be the go to in raid atm

[karmic mortar]

Is there a viable Blindside build? I want an execute phase Bob Saget

[robust rain]

Thanks alot. But why is it shown that ss is still better or Lets das The same on herodamage

[dawn merlin]

im not sure about herodamage, but bloodmallet shows values for boss fights, even for hectic add cleave

which means it doesnt account for constantly restealthing

which you are doing in mythic+ and is huge for ss

[inner pulsar]

Yeap, hectic add cleave would undervalue SS pretty significantly

[robust rain]

Okay. Thanks. I will switch to bloodmallet Then.👌

[inner pulsar]

I wonder, is there a consensus on whether holding envenom till after TB is worth it? The apl suggests it is not

[dawn merlin]

herodamage is cool, i just prefer bloodmallet's UI

they're pretty much the same otherwise

[strange python]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[inner pulsar]

As well as the guide, that says clearly to TB on cooldown

[sonic spindle]

Trying to line up TB with stuff last night felt awful

Always felt like I needed to refresh a garrote or rupture instead of envenom, and the only good tome to TB is when I was full on CPs

[rotund stone]

with the SS nerf is it still king for azerite trait or yall switch it to double dose. outside of uldir azerite that is (in raid)

[sonic spindle]

SS will always be king in my heart.

[inner pulsar]

I would suggest spending some time using Hero Rotation addon. Aethys is the creator and a Rogue theorycrafter (and a Shadow), and the rotation follows the APL.

It may help you get more comfortable

[spiral snow]

does anyone have a weakaura to track the number of ruptures on targets?

[inner pulsar]

I was using it last night, basically as a check of "Is what I think I should do ACTUALLY what I should be doing"

[sonic spindle]

I’ll check it out, thanks.

[inner pulsar]

@spiral snow I have one that not only tracks the number, but also the duration. Would that work?

[sonic spindle]

Well people were talking about fitting 2 envenoms in a TB yesterday, and I just got the life of me couldn’t get it to line up well.

[spiral snow]

yes did you sim

that would be AMAZING

[inner pulsar]

One sec let me get it

[spiral snow]

cheers mate, you just saved my life LOL

[inner pulsar]

I built it yesterday haha

[glass compass]

What does the hero rotation add-on do? I'm guessing it helps with rotation?

[inner pulsar]

It will show you what action the simcraft apl would tell you to cast at that moment

[hollow pine]

@sonic spindle Try to plan better when to use TB. Dont use it with low energy + low cp.

[cinder palm]

I’ve been running 2 SB 1 DD and that’s been pretty good single target too

[sweet flame]

I was under the impression TB on CD regardless ended up being better, perhaps read it somewhere here or on RH website?

idr

[sonic spindle]

That’s what I tried, but it felt like I was sitting on it forever trying to get it to line up right.

[inner pulsar]

@spiral snow Gotta upload it to wag.io, one minute

[spiral snow]

no worries bro, thank you so much for helping me

[slender smelt]

Is there a duration for exsang? When does it fades off?

[sweet flame]

exsang isn't a buff

it just changes your active bleeds

[hollow pine]

@slender smelt It affects your current bleeds only

[sweet flame]

which is why you generally want full pandemic bleeds before using it

[inner pulsar]

@spiral snow https://wago.io/SJL6y9MK7

Try that

And let me know if it works please

I mean, I know it works for me haha

[spiral snow]

doesn't show up for some reason, does having ELVui break it or anything?

[inner pulsar]

No

[spiral snow]

I have nameplates enabled too

[inner pulsar]

I do as well, shouldnt matter

Does it show up as a dynamic group?

Also have you updated your weakauras addon?

[spiral snow]

it does show

lemme check

[inner pulsar]

so when you /wa it shows on the screen, but not when you try and use it in combat or no?

[spiral snow]

yeah, it does show on the screen but not in combat

[inner pulsar]

Ok

Load setting is set to "in Combat?

[spiral snow]

yeah, strange thing is the icon appears as "?" instead of the rupture one

[inner pulsar]

Hmmmm, ok

Anyone else willing to try this WA, to help me nail it down?

[mortal rampart]

i can try it tonight if that helps

[blazing raptor]

For a preference feel, does anyone still use ArcHUD?

i used it way wayyy back in the day, juist started back but I find its losing the appeal to me

[mortal rampart]

when you folks say "full pandemic bleed" what does that mean exactly? im still learning a bit

[weary verge]

Pandemic refers to being able to refresh dots at <30% duration without losing any duration, it adds it on to the new one

So a full pandemic is where your bleed has teh extra 30% from the old one

[mortal rampart]

so dbl gar, basically?

[little sparrow]

Full pandemic means it's full potential timer

[strange python]

whats a general sin rotation? when i open i can get 10k easy but after that it drops down and i cant keep it up lol

[little sparrow]

It's like 22s garrote and 33s rupture or some meme

[mortal rampart]

ty

[little sparrow]

It's why your opener usually garrotes twice ST and ruptures twice

Using the pandemic mechanic, for DoTs

[mortal rampart]

ahh, that will help a bit for me, dont think i have been doing that. went from 8th overall dmg last week to 3rd this week, this may be what i need to hit 1

[strange python]

how do you help getting full pandemic

[little sparrow]

If you keep your elaborate planning uptime, dot uptime, and let your empowered DoTs tick off you'll have no problem

[mortal rampart]

i just joined a cpl days ago so much good info here. ty all again.

[strange python]

so pretty much dont refresh dots until they are done ticking

[surreal verge]

What are your azerite setups right now?`

[strange python]

i have 1 twist the knife and 2 suff

[little sparrow]

Don't refresh empowered dots, this is known as DoT clipping. Non-empowered DoTs you want to refresh on their pandemic timer so you can maximize uptime and get more envenoms out

[strange python]

is there an addon for pandemic timer?

[shadow pivot]

weak auras

[little sparrow]

Plenty of weakauras with pandemic in mind but you can just track the time and refresh when they're nearing optimal pandemic timer. Pretty sure every guide ever has the numbers for that

[blazing raptor]

I am trading in my archud for wa's today. just need to set them up

[inner pulsar]

it is 7.2 seconds for a 5 cp Rupture, 6 seconds for a 4 cp Rupture, and 5.4 seconds on Garrote

But yea, get one of the WA packs

[wicked saddle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[inner pulsar]

Speaking of WA, anyone want to hazard a guess as to why the one I tried to upload to wago.io lost it's trigger settings when someone else tried to import it?

[daring imp]

did you share the entire group or just one of the parts/triggers?

[inner pulsar]

II imported the entire group string

So right clicked the dynamic group, and copied that string

[strange python]

which of the WA do you guys recommend? i looked through the ones that got posted and i could see any that i really liked

[shut basalt]

Are there any guides not in #rules-and-guides you might recommend for somebody trying to learn assassination? The one there didn't seem to have any kind of priority list or anything so I'm just looking for another perspective to see if it makes more sense written another way

[daring imp]

wait, you shared the string after importing it, instead of sharing the wago.io link?

[inner pulsar]

No, I uploaded to wago.io, then shared the link

[daring imp]

@strange python i enjoy afenar's

@inner pulsar strange, never encountered such an issue @_@"

[inner pulsar]

And the group settings and display settings imported, just not the trigger settings

[strange python]

@daring imp i tried that one but it didnt look like really tracked anything,

[inner pulsar]

@daring imp Any chance you are in game and can test? It doesn't have any weird lua code or anything like that

@strange python It literally tracks everything

All the things

[little sparrow]

@Tekadan#0259 fragnance has an amazing weakaura/elvui set i'd look into that

[inner pulsar]

Luxthos has a great set that I use as well

[tight meteor]

paywall weakauras btw

[strange python]

it doesnt have the remaining time

how does fan of knives generate points

is it 1 point and 1 more for ever crit?

[shadow pivot]

it does, tekadan. you just gotta activate text

[strange python]

half the time im getting 1 fucking point per fan and it feels trash

[visual token]

I use icehud for bleed timers and weak auras for CDs

[shadow pivot]

yup, 1 +1per crits

[little sparrow]

[iron prism]

Question about Vendetta: if i garrote and then vendetta, are the ticks from the pre-garrote vendetta boosted? or do i need to reapply?

not sure where/if/how snapshotting occurs besides the rotational directions given

trying to get the mechanics better for cases where we fall out of rotation

[proven ice]

Nothing snapshots but nightstalker

And Esang.

But only the haste

[iron prism]

ok, so ideally you drop your dots then vendetta, not reverse

[proven ice]

Ideally you only reapply 1 garrote during vendetta

So yes.

[iron prism]

okay one other question

[strange python]

does afenars track pandemic?

[iron prism]

with elaborate planning, is it worth it to envenom with <4 stacks to maintain elaborate planning uptime?

[proven ice]

Only if you're coming off a rupture

Don't clip the Envenom buff if you won't overflow energy

Sorry, I misunderstood

No, you don't spam low CP envenoms to maintain buff

[iron prism]

thanks

[proven ice]

I assume stacks means Cp

[strange python]

i need to be someone rogue padawan

[keen pike]

is there any loss in deeps from not getting a fulll pandemic?

[mortal rampart]

less beefy exs if i am understanding all this correctly

[cosmic shale]

Hi ! What's the haste softcap pls ?

[keen pike]

what if you spec into TB ecks dee

then there's no loss correct?

[marble hemlock]

doesnt matter as long as you refresh within the pandemic window

if youre running subterfuge you will still want a full pandemic garrote however

[sinful lotus]

This may have been asked before, do you ever cast a TB when at 5 combo points? To ensure you can 2x Envenom during the window?

Somebody said overcapping with TB isn't a big deal

[sonic spindle]

I know I’m about to drop some blasphemy, but I don’t use WA, on a scale from 1 - I’m stupid, how useful is WA?

[sinful lotus]

@sonic spindle incredibly Useful 😃

I mean, tracks your dots, uptimes, CD's etc...

[clever tartan]

Master poison vs EB thoughts?

Only 50dps change when i sim

[sonic spindle]

I use tellmewhen for CDs and I just kind of watch dots to keep track of pandemic windows, but everyone loves WA so I feel like I’m missing out.

[stray cloud]

So I'm a fresh assassination rogue for this xpac. Previously as a resto shaman since BC.

I'm well geared at 363 equipped, with haste/crit as my main stats. I've been really struggling to get good parses. My initial burst DPS seems strong, but I really tail off the longer a fight goes / am not able to maintain a good amount. https://raider.io/characters/us/stormreaver/Bullzark

I just got some WA's yesterday and they seem to be helping.. But I'm not maintaining anything close to DPS. I've yet to get better than a blue parse. I know some of it is due to the group I'm running with and fights going much longer than they should, but when running with our A team on mythic taloc kill the other day, I was ahead of our other assassination rogue on initial burst, but ended up 2k dps behind him by the end of the fight.

Anybody have any suggestions / tips? I'm not keeping envenom ticks up as much as I can, but I'm having a hard time keeping it up often. In some places after a toxic blade, I spam envenom, and then in places I have no energy to keep it up while I refresh garotte and rupture. I'm banging my head on the wall trying to get better and not doing so great. Is it gear? talents? I just suck?

[inner pulsar]

@sonic spindle I won't say you are stupid, but I know you were feeling like your dps was low, I think a good WA setup will help more than anything else you can do

[sonic spindle]

I know there’s like 5 different sets here, is there a real difference between them or someway I can tell the difference?

[inner pulsar]

Mostly just appearance

[sonic spindle]

Well I do like me a purdy UI

[inner pulsar]

@stray cloud Did you read the guide?

[sinful lotus]

@stray cloud What's your talent setup?

[stray cloud]

like I was getting out dps'd yesterday on vek'koz heroic by 2k dps by a rogue with 10 less ilvl.

read the guide and I follow that rotation, but I'm still way behind it seems

[wheat zealot]

@stray cloud link some logs, and we can pick them apart. And tell you what the problem is

[timid grotto]

if I play 1SB do I just use it on 30 stacks or do I want to use it together with vendetta or something?

[proven ice]

Don’t use 1sb

[stray cloud]

This was my best parse yesterday - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RjnBvMCcTKyP4ZQ8/#fight=2&type=damage-done

[proven ice]

But you should use it on close to full stacks

[stray cloud]

and another parse later on -
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RjnBvMCcTKyP4ZQ8/#fight=9&type=damage-done

[timid grotto]

hm kk

[radiant shoal]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[inner pulsar]

@stray cloud First log you missed a vanish and vendetta usage

Missed 4 TBs

Overcapping Energy

[dense quest]

your azerite is kinda all over

[thick sorrel]

Does anyone know if fan of knifes build is good for rbgs. A rogues was top dps by a long shot and his highest dmging thing was fan?

[timid grotto]

oh and if I vanish during first vendetta, do I want to get 2x garrote + 1 rupture like in the opener?

[inner pulsar]

And you wasted CPs from garrote

[sinful lotus]

The other rogue also cast like 20 more Ruptures than you. Did you rupture all the adds? @stray cloud

[stray cloud]

nope, I was cleaving off boss. He was also extans spec where I am toxic blade, so he was using rupture much more. He was also stacking crit compared to me stacking haste.

[winter cedar]

Whens Gatecallers best used on the pull, straight away or just before casting ex?

[wheat zealot]

Use toxic blade on cooldown, you missed 5 tbs on the 2nd log

[inner pulsar]

@stray cloud Also yeah, your Azerite traits are pretty janked

[wheat zealot]

47% downtime is a lot

[sinful lotus]

I could be wrong, but even with TB I would still Rup the adds, then get back to cleave off boss.

[wheat zealot]

Wasting energy

Less than 90% uptime on rupture and garrote

[sinful lotus]

Other rogue cast 30 more mutilates, 20 more ruptures, 5 more Gar and 7 more FoK

Stats aside, i believe those extra Rup gave him the energy regen he needed to get more stuff out

[royal lantern]

well, FoK cast are slightly luck based

[sinful lotus]

Sure, just put that in there to compare Casts (overall)

[keen spruce]

@stray cloud https://wowanalyzer.com/report/RjnBvMCcTKyP4ZQ8/2-Heroic+Zek'voz+-+Wipe+2+(6:07)/25-Bullzark

[royal lantern]

sucks when you use it 3x in a row in zul for 1 combo point ._.

[keen spruce]

This is the big one

On a fight like zek voz you should be targetting 100% uptime. 95%+ on both would be fine though

[stray cloud]

k, thanks for the headsup. I'll work on that

[silk sundial]

Do you have a weak aura that tracks your dot durations? I used to be pretty bad about keeping dots up on multiple targets

[vernal mauve]

Hows the darkmoon deck for sin rogues? Is it worth getting one or are there better ones out there?

[urban storm]

better than most trinkets until 385+

[quartz escarp]

does sharpened blades trait affect exsanguinate or do i have to specc toxic blade all the time if i choose sharpened blade on an azerite armor piece

[sinful lotus]

Hey so is it considered acceptable to overcap with TB in order to get your 2x Env off? You don't usually want to cast a TB right after an Env right?

[stray cloud]

I'm using Lokkeks wa

[wintry canyon]

Guys quick question, how the hell am I putting my best sim gear and traits and still losing dps compared to other sets I'm using personally?

[inner pulsar]

@quartz escarp That is a weird way to ask that, but I guess the answer is while SB doesn't depend on TB or Exsang, you wouldnt run Exsang unless you were using SS

[vernal mauve]

Okay, thank you. I've been trying to avoid spending the gold on my server for that trinket and haven't found too much information on it and noticed alot of rogues had it for raiding and they performed well

[inner pulsar]

@wintry canyon Don't know how to answer that. If you mean you simmed your character and it suggested a different set of talent and gear than you had been using, and now your dps is lower I would say A.) How did you determine your dps is lower? and B.) It is probably not being familiar with the new talents

[outer acorn]

can anyone check my logs and tell me where am i making mistakes?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/chamber-of-aspects/kelvie?mode=detailed&zone=19#difficulty=3

im running double SB and 1 LM

[little frigate]

hey lads, what was that site that has trinket sims etc?

pendulum?

[outer acorn]

bloodmallet

[lone junco]

And. Herodamage

[inner pulsar]

@outer acorn I don't know if that was an attempt at a #humblebrag, but you are doing much better than the majority of people here

[outer acorn]

yeah

but look at the % perf

im simming for almost 15k and i can't see that damage

and i can't find a solution so asking in case you can

[mossy hazel]

Exsang snapshots right? so you shouldn't refresh dots during?

[tough whale]

Yes

[lone junco]

FriggenCorrect.

[tough whale]

I love my name lmao

Hearing my rl yell out friggenheck

[daring imp]

@outer acorn you're doing great, mate, what hurts on most bosses aside from mother ( if you go last through door ) and zek voz are mechanics

did you try out master assassin instead of subterfuge now that you don't have any SS?

[tough whale]

Zekvoz blows. We got him the other night and I was on an early orb

[daring imp]

i mean, simming

[tough whale]

Ez green parse :^)

[inner pulsar]

@outer acorn It looks good for the most part, Garrote uptime could be slightly higher, but again, purple parses across the board is pretty good haha

[storm epoch]

can someone post TB rotation?

[little sparrow]

67% is better than most people here? Big yikes

[outer acorn]

no i havent

[inner pulsar]

And yeah, @daring imp is right, MA would probably be more optimal

[little sparrow]

Whenever I get under 90% I'm scouring over my logs trying to get 95 lol

[inner pulsar]

Really, post some @little sparrow

[lone junco]

@storm epoch run a 100k sim on raidbots with your traits and talents. Then read the HTML sample sequence.

[daring imp]

master assassin instead of subterfuge, and try to get the phat vanish TB>poison knife>envenom in a row

[little sparrow]

Mememax - Illidan

[daring imp]

bonus points if vendetta is up during it

[storm epoch]

@lone junco ty

[little sparrow]

Any input highly appreciated

[outer acorn]

shouldnt it be

[lone junco]

Vanish tb knife env. Had a nice ring to it. Esp after catching a zek orb.

[outer acorn]

TB>envenom>knife?

to get the dmg bonus from planning

[daring imp]

well the order doesn't matter as long as tb is before the envenom, i'm fairly sure poison knife is physical damage, not nature damage

[lone junco]

Interchangeable. But have ep up prior for that tb hit anyway.

[tough whale]

@lone junco I got an orb 6 and just cried as the boss died like 1:20 after my mc

[daring imp]

^ this too

having ep up too

[storm epoch]

Is there any reason to poison knife if you dont have sharpened blades?

[tough whale]

No

[daring imp]

nope

[lone junco]

Rupture garrote vanish tb knife env should get you 5cps.

[daring imp]

i'm trying to have ~3cp for the vanish combo

[lone junco]

Ye.

[daring imp]

then if tb doesn't crit i poison knife and then envenom

if tb crits, envenom>poison knife

[outer acorn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/akPmhqmmK1TTRfLL6K1KoQ

well

[lone junco]

3sec is uber short.

[outer acorn]

not a big differene

[hollow stone]

Bah. I missed the zekvoz stuffs.. anyone playing sin on m zek or just giving in and going outlul?

[daring imp]

does poison knife give 2 cp on crit? i never noticed @_@"

[outer acorn]

difference

it should

[lone junco]

It should

It can proc anvil btw

[tough whale]

Zek? Just play Assas

The small adds arent worth going sub or outlaw unless you seriously have a cleave issue

[hollow stone]

Logs are like 2k dps behind outlaw and my group's aoe is subpar

[pine jetty]

would you guys recommend 3x SS or a 2cSS and a 1x Archive? for Mythic + my sims are really close dps wise between the 2

[outer acorn]

3x SS for M+

[inner pulsar]

@little sparrow Looks like you are crushing it bud

[pine jetty]

thanks

[tough whale]

Logs are bias, considering you shouldnt be meleeing adds past the first caster

[hollow stone]

Did you run sin for my zek then?

[daring imp]

for m+ i wouldn't use anything else instead of 3x SS, unless i get some not-so-shitty 385 azerite pieces

[tough whale]

If your groups aoe is that bad give it a shot but its gonna make interrupt rotation fucky

[hollow stone]

And just ct

[tough whale]

I ran ct sin

[hollow stone]

Yea. I was middle of the add dmg as sin last night. Just used to carrying these noobs 😉

[tough whale]

You shouldnt win on add damage

[buoyant flume]

Hey @outer acorn I'm actually trying to play 2xblood scent + 1xSS (for the cp). Is it okay playing around agility and rupture everyone ?

[inner pulsar]

@little sparrow 3xSS sims igher than Uldir trait for you? Not suggesting it doesn't just wondering

[little sparrow]

Nah @inner pulsar I've got a long way to go to get to where I was in legion

[outer acorn]

it is on high m+

[tough whale]

I still have 340 ss for m+

[hollow stone]

Yea. My boss and shadow add dmg were still (usually) the highest. I think ima just stay sin. Thx man

[little sparrow]

I use a different set of gear for Uldir, archive head and DiB chest

[tough whale]

@hollow stone np. Its incredibly good. I'd take parses with a heavy grain of salt because of just how much padding exists on warriors

[inner pulsar]

I wounder why it picked up something different in your Heroic Fetid Kill

[little sparrow]

I'm 365 or something in M+ and 370 in raid gear

[hollow stone]

Not to mention all the top parses prob got an early orb in p2

[tough whale]

I got an early orb

It sucked

Ideal is orb -> get brez but it didnt happen

[daring imp]

i want to parse high but all pugs i go are shit and we take too long to kill boss, AND downtime doing mechanics

[little sparrow]

Was it this weeks fetid? :O I usually just run the 1 SS on shoulders

[hollow stone]

Isnt p2 trans around 6 mins tho so vend should line up well?

[tough whale]

You wont parse in pugs tbf

It does line up apple but

You have orb for 30s

[little sparrow]

Depends on the fight tbh

[tough whale]

Then afk cause you're dead

[hollow stone]

Yea lol

[tough whale]

And the boss lives for another 2min

[lime briar]

Can anyone help me on how to improve?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/17834355?mode=detailed&zone=19#difficulty=3

[little sparrow]

The worse the pugs are the better you can do in AoE fights

[tough whale]

Ideal orbs are like 8+

[little sparrow]

Since their throughput is so low, you can soak all the AoE dps

[hollow stone]

So would you recommend taking maybe a middle orb and saving vend van for then?

Thats kinda what im feelin

[tough whale]

Youd have to feel out the boss death time

[hollow stone]

Yea. Most kills are around 8 mins

[tough whale]

If you can squeeze in another 2min cd set or not

[hollow stone]

From what i was seeing

[tough whale]

Yeah. Shorter kills usually lust off bat to skip 3rd adds

[hearty pecan]

question: do you envenom at 4 combo points if toxic blade is on cooldown, and garrote is at ~half duration? is it worth it to poisoned knife then envenom at 5? wait until toxic blade/garrote are good to cast? or just cast at 4 cp

[hollow stone]

Nice. Thx again

[tough whale]

Np

[storm epoch]

i cast at 4

[outer acorn]

always cast at +4

dont use poisoned knife without EP

[storm epoch]

unless you pvp

then always at 5

[hearty pecan]

i pvp as sin a lot so im used to always casting it at 5

[tough whale]

Envenom mfd envenom

[daring imp]

4+ is good

for pve

[quasi ledge]

@hollow stone I played Assassination on Mythic Zek'voz last night. Didn't pad with Crimson Tempest, although I got an orb right at the end. Top on boss damage, adds are shit for us though. Got overall #9-10

[sinful lotus]

@daring imp read your comment earlier, so you prefer MA over Subt with TB and no SS?

[daring imp]

ye

also sims slightly higher for me

[inner pulsar]

@little sparrow Dunno, the few fights I checked had all had you with 3xSS,

[royal lantern]

if you are not using the orb too pad, why get orb at all lul

[hollow stone]

Thats what im a bit worried about. We have no frost mage, no warrior, 1 dk, 3 afflocks

[sinful lotus]

@daring imp Does for me as well, but idk, could be the new feel, but felt a little clunky

[daring imp]

not much difference BUT it feels good doing the tb>env>poison knife

[tough whale]

No warrior yikes

[hollow stone]

So our aoe is... not great

Yea. Its brutal