The problem i see is lack in diversity
#assassination
prisma crescent
Exsang vs TB really just down to personal preference?
slender smelt
It is up to the fight you encounter
ST it really dont matter
Exsang is good when you should change targets frequently
Cause it only interacts with bleed dots
But TB you need to envenom the target you TBed
arctic isle
exsang vs tb is just sims
prisma crescent
So like exsang for something such as Adderis
slender smelt
Adderis? You plan to get deep fried with lightning sheild?
dusk sun
LOL
arctic isle
just sim it and use the one it tells you
dusk sun
I always love hitting the shield and make healer have a fit
lime briar
so TB is always before exsang?
prisma crescent
sim is like 20 dps difference
lime briar
ravenholdt says TB on CD
dusk sun
Since envenom is nature dmg finisher
dull lintel
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
surreal rivet
anyone know if wowprogress sims take into effect the uldir trait stacks?
dusk sun
Usually I use tb after the first rupture
Bc u dont wanna tb then follow with a rupture ideally
true aurora
I donโt think so cyanide
slender smelt
When situations like the shark boi from freehold you need to move out from sharknados
Exsang seems to work fine
When you cant env much
strange python
why do i sim so much lower as exsang i want to swap off this dagger throwing shit
๐ฆ
slender smelt
Just my thoughts :/
lime briar
sharpened blades is lame
dusk sun
Move from sharknados? Fk that make healers cry ๐
strange python
it really is
dusk sun
It is lame
lime briar
i only have 1 SB and i wanna switch it out for DD
strange python
but everyone else is getting better sims as exsang but mine is 700 lower
surreal rivet
how much haste do u have?
true aurora
I sim higher with tb
surreal rivet
depends on your haste
strange python
12%
lime briar
im assuming higher haste, exsang starts to be better?
dusk sun
Thats so low man
lime briar
whats a decent haste %
true aurora
Glad tho... I like tb when I raid. Exsang for PvP
dusk sun
theres no magic number
surreal rivet
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/utDjuTzRTd8FU9XoWoBXw4 is my exsang sim
slender smelt
Just saying it really dont matter
strange python
Im trying lol but my cache keeps giving me 395 vers mast gear
dusk sun
But around 17-18 is kinda good
strange python
385*
hazy sphinx
Its playable at 15% haste
Below that, its atrocious @strange python
I'm at 23% haste in Uldir with reorigination
I just need at least 1 archive.
strange python
if i switched back to haste gems and haste enchants with the raid buff i have like 15 or 16
im in outlaw atm so i swapped them all around
strange python
plus i havent gotten a galecallers yet and i know thats pretty good
strange python
i geuss my gear is just trash
i just cant stop getting high ilvl peices without haste
soft steppe
has anyone tried tempest on higher keys?
dusk sun
I have
soft steppe
my guildy swears its good
soft steppe
yea i have double ss one sob and i am running ct ex
strange python
Guys literarly every m+ i did tank was chainpulling
even 1000+scores
telling me "chainpulling is good for overall dps)
so what the fuck do i do there
thats the best
so every pull im not in stealth
doing alot less dps
thats best?
hazy iron
vanish i guess
strange python
2min cd yea
hazy iron
yeah should be using your cd's if you're pushing high keys my man
dusk sun
I havent had a problem with that since im always running keys with mates esp tanks
sharp schooner
if your tank doesn't stop when you tell them just hearth ๐
balmy cradle
hmm somehow i dont think you tell the truth, no healer can chainpull a full dungeon without drinking once and if he drinks you could stealth too
strange python
some fuckin boomkin did 18k dps total
i did 10k
because some mage started ninja pulling bosses too
on 11key
hazy iron
the group clearly didnt need a rogue then
strange python
like dno wtf was that group lel
strange python
this afixes are hard for pugs tbh
dusk sun
All pugs are cancer
sand whale
I usually hang back a bit if I run into those tanks but don't really pug that often
get the restealth in once the previous pack dies even if tank pulls a new one
analog burrow
are people still playing with suffication even after the 40% nerf? or what is the meta now?
snow orchid
80% garrote and rupture uptime. Also most top logs dont swap to adds i assume
vapid oracle
well your kill time is also double my kill time which doesnt help your case
bright vessel
Yea thats gotta be it
prisma crescent
im playing 2ss 1sb exsang for M+ feels great. someone above mentioned 15%haste breakpoint and id agree
bright vessel
I was told to switch to add
instead of just sticking boss
i was lookin at other parses and yea, uptim on garrote and rupture is over 95%
snow orchid
our kill was under 2min yesterday. And yours were 4:49 :p as miniath said
vapid oracle
you did drop uptime which doesnt help and you could pool better for TB envenoms
kind stump
Yeah if youre killing adds then youre gonna parse considerably worse
bright vessel
makes sense
prisma crescent
@bright vessel ur whole guild parses gray ๐ญ
ripe comet
you rupture + garrotte on fetid and then switch to the add , so you always have atleast one garrotte/rupture running , mostly 2 during adds
bright vessel
only on that fight hahaha
i parsed blue on most other fights
also, for refreshing rupture, say there is like 5sec left on it, and i have 5cp, is it better to just refresh there or try to squeeze in an envenom?
ripe comet
even if you waste time on the bleeds its outright better to not let them run out
kind stump
Refresh
ripe comet
refresh
snow orchid
read up on pandemic effect
bright vessel
thanks a lot guys appreciated
ripe comet
you can get up to 30% bonus time with pandemic
snow orchid
adds remaining time to next dot
bright vessel
oh shit ok
ripe comet
always pandemic garrot and rupture before Exsang too
prisma crescent
Envenoms really aren't that important for Assassin, think of it as filler
Def dont sacrifice bleed up time for them
bright vessel
ok, that makes a lot more sense then
sand whale
you're not gonna parse very high if your guild is killing adds on heroic
kind stump
Yeah on that fight getting the max duration garrotes and ruptures on the boss before switching to adds will help a lot
sand whale
the longer you guys are taking the worse your parse becomes
ripe comet
envenom is basically only important if you hit 4/5 cp and you can't rupture because it's remaining duration is longer then 30% of your next rupture
and that too , bloodlust is SUPER important for us
kind stump
Yeah, if you want a good parse you dont vendetta in the opener either
ripe comet
hum?
kind stump
On that boss
prisma crescent
Don't hold vendetta on 4:30min kills
ripe comet
the fight is so short you only get 2 vendettas anyways
snow orchid
not his guild
ripe comet
you'se the first on opener , the 2nd with vanish + exsang
sand whale
that fight is so short I only get 1 vendetta
kind stump
Yeah
sand whale
obviously mileage varies
bright vessel
im not using exsang, im using poison bomb
ripe comet
note to myself : kick guild in arse to keep the pace for 2nd vendetta , noted :D
bright vessel
๐
ripe comet
exsang is in another row then poision bomb
i guess you're thinking of crimson tempest
prisma crescent
he meant tb obv
ripe comet
ah , just saw it in the logs
bright vessel
err yea
ripe comet
in that case envenom is super important , but only during tb :D
snow orchid
hopefully hes not too confused now ๐
ripe comet
i'm sorry :(
kind stump
Tldr; focus on getting better bleed uptime, dont worry about parses until your guild is comfortable killing it without killing adds
ripe comet
what i mean is , outside of tb you don't need to spam it on low energy , better to relax a little and pool energy for the next tb and refresh bleeds outside of it
sand whale
nope just telling your whole guild to git gud tho jk jk
snow orchid
and dont hold vendetta. ur opener was fine
kind stump
Yes that too sorry for the confusion that caused lol
ripe comet
the other point is don' use prolonged in raid , the new potion is outright better even with the short duration :P
vapid oracle
prolonged is fine when you dont have the gold its not where the problem lies but yeh
bright vessel
๐
steep obsidian
well other people are not so you won't parse well until you stop being cheap ๐
ripe comet
well he wanted to rank higher , and the new potion during tb on bl with all bleeds gives a nice push
steep obsidian
fo sho
ripe comet
even more during exsang
arctic isle
you wont parse well until the whole guild gets better
sand whale
you can suggest this, open as usual with vendetta but only opt to kill one add then burn the rest of the boss hp. I was watching the replay for the log and you guys should be able to do it and you'll all feel better about it
vapid oracle
its not gonna shoot you from grey to orange though by any means, other things will
ripe comet
snapping 1k bonus agi on speed up bleeds is naisu O:
ripe comet
but yeah if you're not getting the boss down without ignoring the adds just kill one , if you're at the point you can kill both during the window you can just ignore them all together :D
somber sigil
yo guys, is there such thing as too much haste, I mean with this uldir buffs we will have more and more haste each week, so we might not need prioritize it for raid anymore?
arctic isle
just sim it
ripe comet
you basically need more haste then everything BECAUSE of the uldir buff
because it boosts the highest stat
wary chasm
Probably been answered but I scrolled up a lot and didn't see it, are people still double SS or triple SS even after nerf or is there a new preferred trait?
vapid oracle
Iโm at like 18% haste and my haste weight is still .3 higher than my agi weight Iโd say you are pretty safe with haste stacking for a while
ripe comet
For M+ => Stick to tripple SS , For the raid : 1x Uldir Shit , 1x SS , 1x something else , possibly just highest ilvl , since one trait alone doesen't have insane differences but i'd use blight if i could
long osprey
I know double dose simmed higher than SS for me
somber sigil
cause of bleeds ticks maybe, ok thx
sand whale
no he means don't let your haste drop to a point that it's not your highest secondary
ripe comet
yeah , that , sorry if the wording was off
haughty parrot
SS as in swirling sands or shrouded suffocation?
ripe comet
shroud
i mean i guess 2x DD's instead of 1 SS / 1 Blight or DD can sim higher , but it's a minor gain and it shreds your opener and i don't think thats worth it
wary chasm
Im guessing TB over Exsang then with only 1 SS?
sand whale
sim
ripe comet
afaik exsang still sims higher for me even with only 1 SS , but i gotta doublecheck
wary chasm
Fair enough thanks for the info saves time waiting for sims since I am not premium
ripe comet
well atually my exsang is 38 dps behind tb :D
i guess we have the luxory to play both now
fiery bobcat
bis traits for M+ with shrouded nerf?
strange python
Ss :)
cobalt flint
Do you guys run TB or Ex for M+ with 3x shroud?
On st it sims about the same for me
strange python
Exang
fiery bobcat
385 with double dose or 340 with shrouded?
cobalt flint
Not sure how to sim for m+
cobalt flint
Hm, 1min hectic addcleave?
cobalt flint
Why do we sim st then
strange python
Because else you need to change all your gear
As you wont want haste on hectic add cleave
strange python
But exang melts priority adds way faster than TB
fiery bobcat
3+ adds for Fan spam?
ripe comet
for this week just sim 40 sec 5 or 6 bosses , only food + flask + ap shout
cobalt flint
Yeah I have 2 bags full of gear with different stats because i play all 3 specs some in pvp some in dif encounters feelsbadman
ripe comet
@cobalt flint i fele you , and like 20 azerit pieces in the bank in case of nerf :D
strange python
I dont. I have had fuck all luck with azerite pieces.
ripe comet
i enslaved my friends and their leather toons for normal m to get the 340 pieces
ripe comet
i just cried my spec's dead need new azerite !!!111 and little do they know i still use SS :<
strange python
@ripe comet ss is still respectable just not op op
strange python
I cant wait to archive dose or something else lol
ripe comet
it was completly out of controll
strange python
As i feel im falling behind now. I dont play much so am about 10-13 item level behind rest of the guild
Still top dpser
ripe comet
yeah but you now gotta work for your dmg and not just get the right opener with BL and vanish into double garrotte for 33k dps and then go afk for the rest off the fight and eat popcorn while people try to catch up
that really wasen't healthy
strange python
@ripe comet agreed. You still do pretty much lol
But the bits in between are far more impoetant now
ripe comet
yeah
and finally we can use uldir gear now
and since we have 1 piece in raid with SS on it we can wear full uldir gear in the raid \o/
and look like a gladiator with steampunk dagger's that look like fucking broadswords instead of looking like a rogue ... but its nice i guess :D
steep obsidian
meh id only ever run ss in dungeons now
slow temple
Is SB a meme or people trolling. Cause I'm not sure what to listen to anymore. I got 2 stacks and a ss Sims best and yeah
vernal sinew
Guys how i Sim more accurately, because i Sim myself, with standard rules (1b 10 min patchwerk (weekly) nightly same as tip). And with this my best Sim have no SS piece and master assasin talent, is this posible or im wrong with anything?
winter gale
slender hare
@vernal sinew the โstandardโ go to sim is Patchwerk 5 minutes, and nightly, instead of weekly
cold rampart
morning guys
i have a question
should i evenom then toxic blade or toxic blade or evenom
does it make any difference?
cold rampart
ok thx
cobalt flint
@steep obsidian well ss is still simming better for me than archive (unless its proccing origination)
So if you have origination from another piece itโs still better to have that on the raid chest (at least for me)
vernal sinew
@slender hare ty
hidden dirge
Are there better traits for Mythic+ now? I feel like triple SS is stilly pretty strong in mythic dungeons where you can restealth on every pull.
slender hare
depens on your azerite ilvl, but generally yes, for me SS x2 + SoB x1 is best
lofty coyote
why have Simcarft no TB-Build? it sims better atm https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T22_Raid.html
atomic karma
strange python
Blizzards azerite system is genious
have 25 azerite pieces in bags
never seen one with sob
civic palm
Not even 25 traits to have why u hoarding.
storm eagle
Sob?
pastel sandal
!sb
strange python
Yes very bad yes yes
pastel sandal
the mutilate trait is the new go to in single target?
civic palm
Very bad.
main fog
@atomic karma assa has 1 charge, sub has 2
arctic isle
im lookin foward to how they implent 8.1 ap talents
is it gonna be ss level and just be the only thing u take
civic palm
Assassination has always had 1 SS charge.
arctic isle
or will it be on par but gameplay changing
civic palm
๐ฎ
ancient notch
9% haste at 358 ilvl. Feels bad. Anyone lower than me
ancient notch
Idk i was at 11% last time I was in uldir
true thistle
am i the only one confused about traits atm
ancient notch
I keep getting Vers gear
true thistle
cause i have no clue what to play with, actualy i find playing with double dose, ss and archive of titains
but i have no fucking clue what to target for
true thistle
i am realy confused
civic palm
arctic isle
ilvl parses are a meme and nobody cares about zul logs
wise whale
ok lets say i dont care about the logs, any tips for zekvos and zul?
arctic isle
tell ur guild to afk when adds spawn
wise whale
do i switch on the adds? i didnt
kindred flame
You are dying, guild can't kill it or what? Since you don't care for logs?
What are you struggling on then
arctic isle
wat u do is stop focusing on normal mode logs
wise whale
obviusly i want to know how to do the most dps on these bosses with assa
i am in normal so i focus on that
arctic isle
u only parse high by padding
kindred flame
You really shouldn't be woried about logs specialy for normal ๐
blazing cobalt
When the adds come out fan/rupture tab fan/rupture tab etc
when the nerubians come out, make sure your normal group pulls them all to boss, and do the same thing /profit
wise whale
ok thx, would it bee good to switch to all ss for that fight? or stay on ST traits?
arctic isle
are u a normal only guild?
wise whale
no we are progressing hc atm
buto n progress i dont care for logs
so in normal i want to have fun achieving all legendary logs in rekills
blazing cobalt
heroic is different, because the nerubians can't be moved
wise whale
yeah im atlking about ilvl%
arctic isle
thats even worse
wise whale
i want to get the best out of what i habe
kind stump
Parses arent dependant on only you, it depends on the whole raid
blazing cobalt
Anyone know roughly how big of a difference reorigination is vs someone who doesn't have it?
pseudo void
My only SS trait piece is 340 chest, while i got the 355 chestguard of dire winds. is it worth it keeping the 340 for the only SS ?
askmrrobot does give me some crazy (imho) advice on gearing for multi target.
I would love to push for further mythics (currently stuck pugging +2 /+3, and doing occasional +6 with guildies.
wise whale
i understand and i can also tell my guild what to do to some extend
arctic isle
uninstall amr from ur brain
hexed root
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wise whale
on herodamage the highest ST combination is 3xSB is that true even considering the uldir traits?
civic palm
The SIMs are accurate to perfect play and 100% uptime on the boss.
civic palm
I imagine SB would be real bad in Uldir.
hexed root
did anyone have weak auras break on them?
I was running mizerok's and now they randomly aren't working period
fierce sluice
Hey! Is laser matrix worth using for m+, or am I better off running SS/SB?
civic palm
Not that I know of.
hexed root
like they wont load and weak auras wont show anything as loaded or not
wise whale
my WAs work
hexed root
yea
they were working fine
and then suddenly lua error into realizing they werent there anymore
civic palm
Try redownloading them?
Might also be something weird with your game.
or Weakauras itself, make sure that is updated as well.
hexed root
just recently updated
and god i wish i could get aotc...
im trying to
i dont die to shit
wise whale
wow bugging aotc
hexed root
do top dmg to ghuun
run orbs
god damn, god group mez
changed release type to alpha for WA, they're back now
little frigate
everyone with their ilvl 360 neck, meanwhile mine is at 329
never done those
same here. but i dont play every day so its not that weird that my neck is low
slender hare
well if its only 329 it means youre far behind on CoA rep
slender hare
dont think so
every AP level only gives +2 ilvl
every rep is +15 when you go to Silithus
little frigate
yeah im quite sure i lag behind on that too.
i just cant bare the thought of grinding or world quests after legion
slender hare
yeah im not really doing WQ anymore, just emissary, cant be bothered to grind AP to upgrade my neck +2 ilvl
little frigate
this is me
farmed the shit out of tol dagor
that wolf greets me with a hug everytime i go in
"sup noct, gimme some love"
that sucks brah
mother drops a good one though, do her weekly
wise whale
i got my eyes on mother, next kill she will drop one and also i will bonus roll one
little frigate
heroics are easy to pug, especially with achievement faker
snow orchid
ive gotten 4 daggers from mother :p
little frigate
OOPS did I say that?
wise whale
and trinket
slender hare
aye feel bad about the luck on that one
little frigate
you lucked out on more than one chest though ๐
oh guys, how the fuck does raider.io work?
frozen gorge
hi there,
little frigate
do you need an addon to have your best performance uploaded?
edgy latch
Stop being cheap with your chants lauritz!
little frigate
ah, so I really do suck
wise whale
but only if you break top 100 on your server or something
but i also got a +2 in so i dont know what up whit that top 100 rule
slender hare
@edgy latch haha if i bought the +40 ones i'd go broke
frozen gorge
I would like to ask you something, i see it's worth to use crimson tempest on high key, (i do usually 10-12 keys) but when i check logs, others rogues never use it on boss, and rarely on trash, what is the condition to use it please ?
wise whale
do you have m+ on every dungeon?
wise whale
that is the most important thing
solid nova
M+ Score is based on dungeons completed, their level and if you did them on time or not
wise whale
do every dungeon at least one
little frigate
ah okay
had no idea and everyone bases their invites on your io score
thanks guys that helps. im gonna do a few +2s today
wise whale
yoeah after that you can always target the lowest one and go from there
and not in time completed keys give significantly less score
spark nymph
Question . Should I use finishers @ 4cp? Or try for 5th?
little frigate
4 unless you need to reapply garrote
polar zephyr
if you can get the 5th combo point without wasting combo points go for it
otherwise using 4cp finishers is ok
spark nymph
Thanks!
strange python
is pooling still a thing for sin ? like keeping track of Elaborate Planning and your Evenom buff to maximize uptime?
gleaming kelp
little frigate
I honestly don't think so; energy regen is just too slow to keep EP up
spark nymph
Also.. should I stall vendetta, so I can fit vanish+ garrote in?
polar zephyr
you definitely want to maximize EP uptime @strange python
little frigate
you can stall vendetta, if that doesnt result in missing one use during the encounter
if you know what i mean
spark nymph
Yesir, thanks!
strange python
maximize EP uptime during bleeds or in general?
little frigate
of course you so @polar zephyr , but pooling means EP will drop
strange python
(empowered bleeds)
little frigate
so in the end its the same. You want to pool to keep it up in particular situations
polar zephyr
i haven't read anything about pooling on any of the guides so i don't really think about it
low prism
hi guys, I simming on single target Master Assassin higher than Subterfuge, anyone else ??
quasi ledge
I just pool to maximise Envenom uptime and ignore EP except during the opener where it's fairly easy to max EP uptime or when refreshing Rupture I do it before EP expires and I'm in pandemic window
clever coral
stupid question but is there anything special spell u wanna prioitize during envenom uptime?
safe sequoia
you should probably pool to the extent that its possible
if you still have EP up but are ready to finish again, wait until its about to expire before envenoming
stable oxide
I pool for Toxic blades
So when I have 3-4 cp, and I have toxic blades of cooldown, I pool energy so that I can do a Toxic blade - envenom and then Mutilate till 4-5 cp and another envenom. so you have at least 2 envenoms while toxic blade is up and at least 1 envenom with EP up during toxic blade
But its somewhat hard to time that, cause in a perfect world you dont want to refresh rupture or garrote during toxic blade. but you dont want to wait to long with applying toxic blade
strange python
#tboncd
wise whale
i am all for rb on cd on that short of a cooldown you can easily miss 2-3 tb in a fight if you pool
tb
stable oxide
just need to be abit lucky I think. In a perfect world you want to have at least 2 envenoms during toxic blade while atleast 1 of them is effected by EP
Yeah thats why you pool befor the TB is off cooldown
wise whale
right ok
stable oxide
I mean, most of the time I do it on cooldown aswell because I just see that its to much of a hazzle... But sometimes I use toxic blade and I need to refresh rupture and garrote and don't even have time to do an enevenom within the toxic blade timer
which is shitty ๐
quasi ledge
I just TB on CD except if it comes off as Rupture does, then it's delayed a few seconds. Most of the time i use it just as a quick 1-2 combos if I'm at 3 and don't pay much attention to it. I know I could probably improve the usage but been getting pretty decent rankings as it is
tulip willow
Is sin good to play in m+ or are other specs better
polar zephyr
I didn't look into that but i'd guess what sims higher
Or maybe tb because of the low cd to use on every trash pack
rough wedge
Im simmign about 8900 dps at ilvl 345, that seems low.
quasi ledge
Will probably be that low until you get decent azerite pieces and a good level of haste then it shoots up
rough wedge
whats the haste I should shoot for?
trail otter
polar zephyr
Sim it @rough wedge there is no breakpoint per se
rough wedge
ahh
strange python
the gods demand haste
rough wedge
Im not in a position to pick my upgrades since Im mostly goign for highest ilvl
modern viper
Hi guys I'm new rouge main that play raid and m+ and I started with sub I liked it and I was not that bad 70-90 perf but they nerfed him. My friends told me that assassination is better and sub will be hard behind assassination aoe and St so I started do play it coz I want to play strongest spec. But I don't feel it (cos I'm bad prop) and I want to ask u what u think about sub compared to assasination now and in future in raid and m+. I'm most interested in hard aoe and pure St. Thanks for help !
modern viper
By that I mean scaling with gear
quasi ledge
Haste has shot above agil for me after that point
rough wedge
whatis telling you to get more
limber wind
@gleaming kelp u made my day
quasi ledge
Mastery almost the same as agil now as well
sweet flame
it plays basically the same as tb anyways imo
doesn't make much of a difference in the feel of the spec
edgy latch
tb better for me as well, by around 200 dps
im thinking of going exsang for vectis still
because of add-dps
icy temple
Tb 4 life
safe sequoia
always felt it was much harder to play 100% optimally with exsang
but i havent had it talented since like emerald nightmare so idk
sweet flame
tb sims like 104 higher for me
nocturne herald
what's a good DPS for normal uldir? sitting at 338 ilevel / 9900 dps
sweet flame
but that's with 2x SS 1x matrix now
clever coral
better to run CT in m+ for trash?
sweet flame
I figure he was asking about sims
modern kindle
always run CT in dungeons imo, also did it during tyraniccal
I sim at around 12,5k at 355
terse rune
on how many targets do we apply CT dot? 2? and do we spam ct during aoe for the initial dmg?
clever coral
rotation for aoe with CT?
nocturne herald
sims, and i'm sadly still rolling 325 azerite gear
modern kindle
I usually do CT at 3+ targets
sweet flame
I already like 360 for my first sin logs, so idk how it'd do in raid at lower ilvl :\
modern kindle
then spam FoK and rupture anything that moves
clever coral
alright that makes sense
modern kindle
To be fair I also havs scent, which gives my agi when rupturing multiple people, so that's my personal thing
think i'm at 15% haste now
sweet flame
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eT4tv44MkptBkTawYiJ2bm this is the only sim I could find from around that ilvl, but obviously different spec
clever coral
feel like thats high aswell
nocturne herald
Looks like you have way more optimized secondaries
ivory pulsar
Before nerfs
sweet flame
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jzhLS45ESkhBPujrQ2tHCk my current mut sim is pretty lame tbh
compared to sub which is like 15k almost
modern kindle
mjeah but I'm never doing to do a perfect sub rotation in a real situation
sweet flame
hmm, I feel like enveloping/mos rotation is pretty easy
very consistent, I guess I'd say
modern kindle
and I can get a lot of free DoT damage in as assassin in those anti-melee type scenarios
mjeah fair
I always mess my anargy levels up with DS/sectec
energy*
nocturne herald
No gems/enchants and a lot less haste than I should have for that ilevel I think lol
modern kindle
I currently have a pretty mediocre 380 trinket, should i try to spam freehold+7 for the loaded dice trinkets?
Not that confident with on use trinkets atm
not while I'm still learing raid mechanics etc
nocturne herald
Forgot to switch to elaborate, that brings the DPS a bit*
cursive mesa
what am i doing wrong?
sweet flame
luckily pvp was there for me
modern kindle
I got "lucky" with 2 370 azerite pieces, sadly one of them has scent of blood ๐
mjeah i ahev 2x 340 now
one is from the emmisary yesterday
@cursive mesa you dont ahve any enchants
the navigation weapon enchants might help a lot with dps
sweet flame
gonna say, both of you- velev and ohgodarogue- you guys should check to how much dps gain fathoms might be tbh
sweet flame
idk what it costs on your server, but on mine it's only like 50-60k now and it way out does its item level
modern kindle
80k on mine
nocturne herald
Yeah, I have maybe 120k total
sinful ore
Velev do you have wep enchants?
sinful ore
Yah
sweet flame
weapon enchants are big for sure
sinful ore
will improve it lots
modern kindle
for assa i do quick & deadly
sinful ore
^
cursive mesa
which one should i buy?
sinful ore
deadly navigation & quick navigation
sweet flame
quick and deadly for sure
sinful ore
np
cursive mesa
what's fathom?
modern kindle
npnp!
sweet flame
Dark Moon Card: Fathoms
modern kindle
Darkmoon Deck: Fathoms
sweet flame
that ^
modern kindle
its a player made trinket that's 355 ilvl
modern kindle
and has a very good proc, and good agi vonus
sweet flame
it outperforms a lot of even 385 trinkets
cursive mesa
oh wow
sweet flame
loaded dice and galecallers
nocturne herald
Fathom's is 300 more dps than my current trinkets
Not sure if I'm down to pay 80k for 300 DPS tho lol
sweet flame
I get ya for sure
modern kindle
ha fair enough ๐
crystal helm
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
modern kindle
I'm aiming for Loaded dice & fathoms
sweet flame
I tend to swap between fathoms and cannonball runner or fathoms and dice
cause cannonball is just really bad on some fights
modern kindle
not great in aoe it seems
terse rune
we still want 3 time SS in m+ right?
modern kindle
I currently have a 380 [Tiny Electromental in a Jar]
glacial steppe
I feel so much weaker in M+
modern kindle
which is alright cause its 380
I'm actually doing pretty well in M+ i feel
currently running ss dd scent
glacial steppe
i feel like scent is meh with CT
modern kindle
and while the scent is not by choice, it's actually pretty good in M+
glacial steppe
wont get more than 2 ruptures before i have to refresh CT
modern kindle
there's no snapshotting anymore, so every rupture increases the damage on all other ruptures
I usually have around 4 if the pack is big enough
400 agi is nothing to scoff at i guess :p
sweet flame
I don't really have any decent pieces outside of 3x SS
slender hare
i run with the pplumage trinket (vers active) instead of fathoms in m+, since fathoms does nothing in dungeons
sweet flame
so if I play mut in m+ I use that
modern kindle
does nothing in dungeons?
slender hare
in aoe its bad
glacial steppe
all my azerite pieces are 340
sweet flame
fathoms is pretty crap on aoe
modern kindle
ah right
slender hare
yea
sweet flame
been trying to get a better plumage or something tbh
but my m+ trinket luck has been pretty shit
modern kindle
mjeaht he drop rates are so low
glacial steppe
im pretty happy with 370 spyglass and 380 dice
slender hare
i have a 365, its actually really good for m+, on trashpulls, so much versatility
modern kindle
3% for every trinket i want or something
and that's on normal mythic
don't even talk about M+ xD
glacial steppe
id spam freehold 10s tbh
sweet flame
I'm close to 370 in bags and until this tuesday had 345/340 daggers and fathoms + 340 dice lol
glacial steppe
they are easy af and you have like tons of decent items there
modern kindle
mjeah
problam is with 355 i'm not getting in any high pugs it seems
always seem to only get accepts in the 5-6 range
modern kindle
yeah but they were raiding yesterday and I feel pretty selfish asking guildmates to only spam freeholds with me
smoky wind
Hey - Currently i'm using 370 Harlan's loaded dice and 345 Galecaller's boon - Do you think it's worth buying fathoms or sticking with what i have?
modern kindle
especially if most of us wont ahve freehold keys
and we need to find random with the key xD
um check bloodmallet
sweet flame
I just tell my guild mates to hit me up they get freehold, tol, atal, or shrine keys
and miss me with motherlode/waycrest/temple
smoky wind
i have 10 waycrest, rip me
sweet flame
I like kings
glacial steppe
yeah double shadow of zul
sweet flame
prolly my favorite dungeon
kindred flame
KR this week is ....
glacial steppe
KEK
modern kindle
Freehold is growing on me
kindred flame
NO double shadow of zul
sweet flame
freehold even on non-teeming feels like so much trash to me
smoky wind
@modern kindle So it would be a minor dps upgrade of 200 give or take a bit
glacial steppe
@sweet flame freehold is like super fast and chill
modern kindle
pretty much yeah
smoky wind
not really worth 100k+ for 200 dps imo :/
glacial steppe
skip to first boss, to trash after second, trigger third boss, kill second, kill last boss, kill sharknado
modern kindle
mhm my groups always seem to die at least once during the doggy trash packs
on the final pack with the stairs
the rat guy always patrols in for some reason
wait wut
that's such a weird way to do it xD
sweet flame
that seems like a lot of travel time tbh
modern kindle
skipping to first boss is really nice though
glacial steppe
best time was when you pulled the trash to the third boss and killed it with their cast lol
modern kindle
and we get to do it every dungeon ๐
slender hare
@glass cairn sim it, but i would guess plume
modern kindle
what's the best way to sim M+?
sinful lotus
How would you Sim M+? Would it be Hectic Add Cleave, 3 bosses for a short duration, like 2-3 mins? Trying to figure out how many SS traits to stack for M+ still.
sweet flame
we normally do like 2-3 pulls to first boss, 3-4 pulls to second, 3 pulls to pig/turtle/shark, shroud to last boss
sinful lotus
Patchwerk 4 to 6o bosses @slender hare >
sweet flame
isn't there a string for simming m+ somewhere in here
modern kindle
what % do you need before crossing the final bridge on freehold?
I usually do 80% but i am not sure
sweet flame
generally we pull the two stormcallers on the bridge and shroud the rest
and that's enough
so idk
sinful lotus
Ok cool thanks @slender hare Lauritz, going to Sim myself now.
slender hare
np
sinful lotus
Trying to figure out at what IL the 3SS traits become less good than other higher IL azerite traits.
For M+.
My sims have already told me to drop all my SS traits for higher IL stuff in Raids, for ST.
slender hare
for m+ atm 340 SS piecies are better than most heroic/mythic other azerite pieces
but yea ST most higher ilvl stuff beats SS
sinful lotus
Ok this is what i got. Told me to drop Fathoms + Galecallers and replace with Dead Eye and Plumage. Also told me to take 2 SS but keep 1 SoB?
slender hare
sounds right
sinful lotus
5 bosses, patchwerk, 40 Secs
sinful lotus
ohr eally?
slender hare
yeah
slender hare
its fine, definitely lower, with my ST gear i sim 15.5k, with m+ its a bit lower
but its not tyrannical week anyway
so most boss fights are super short
sinful lotus
Alright cool ๐ Ty for all the help!
slender hare
np man
limpid frost
what's sob again ?
sweet flame
scent of blood
quasi ledge
The sound we make when we get nerfed
modern kindle
the sound you make when you get an azerite piece with that trait
verbal sorrel
):
sweet flame
modern kindle
ayyy
smoky moth
have there been ninja nerfs or something? everyday my sin rogue loses 500dps. went from 16k before ss nerf to 15.2k the next then back up to 15.7k with upgrades and now i'm at 15k flat
smoky moth
yeah talents are all good
sweet flame
maybe sims updated/not updated for changes?
or maybe missing RA stacks in current sims if you set them manually before
limpid frost
blood malet says sob is good on cleave so why isn't good in mm+ ?
smoky moth
which made sense because they were a little more geared than me
but i lost 700dps over night
just straight up confused
limpid frost
Ok thanks a lot so you agree that 3SS for mm+ is still the way to go ?
sweet flame
3ss or 2ss 1sob
idk
would need to sim or test it yourself
prolly depends on affixes too
limpid frost
Ok thanks
strange python
@sweet flame mix it with CT vanish and exang makes ss very potent in m+
devout jolt
How good is this for an opener with no SS and MA in raiding?
Garrote > multilate > rupture > mut > mut > tb > vanish > envenom > mut (pray for crit ) > envenom
strange python
@devout jolt would be nicer if you had a few SBs
Have you checked hero damage skill combinations for MA?
strange python
Ok go herodamage and check combinations. Uncheck all talents you dont plan on using
devout jolt
โค
strange python
It will give sim results. MA may ne a terrible option for you right now
devout jolt
Sb x 3 is the winner it seems
devout jolt
can i force it to use 1 archive? or do i order by double stack and fill the last one as archive
sweet ginkgo
Anyone noticed, that if you use garrote from shadowmelt, it applies SS, but not subterfuge. Is it a commonly known thing/bug?
strange python
@sweet ginkgo first i have heard of ss being applied from meld.
sweet ginkgo
Well it gives 3 cp
gonna test it more, but I think it works both in pvp and on bosses
sweet ginkgo
2 mins
dreamy fiber
Guys anyone can give me a proper ELI5 on how to remove debuffs from enemy name plates, I am playing around with the blacklist but cant seem to get it to remove crippling/wound/dagger in back
Im a proper addon mong btw
strange python
Hi, using 3*SS and versus 4 ennemies, I noticed that people put 3 enhanced garrots but not the normal fourth garrot, is there some kind of detrimental effect ?
jaunty arrow
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
strange python
ty
charred lantern
whats better in m+ dungeons 3x SS or something like 3x Scent of blood or SB?
sinful lotus
Sharpened Blades
visual token
M+ is 3 SS
static tapir
Ty
sinful lotus
We just did a Sim earlier trying to figure that out. It may not be 3ss. You'll want at least 1 or 2, whether you take 3 will depend on your gear
I simed myself and link it earlier. For 5 bosses, patchwerk 40 secs, recommended i take 2SS and 1 SoB
static tapir
5 bosses patchwork 40 sec is the way to Sim for m+?
sinful lotus
What have people's experiences been with SB? Is it worth trying to stack 3x 340 IL SB for ST? Or just equip high IL pieces with other traits? I See Herodmg has 3x SB as best, followed by 3SS but at what point does IL take over?
strange python
SB is bad.
sinful lotus
@static tapir I'm not 100% sure, but somebody recommended it earlier as the best way to sim for quick trash fights, 4-6 bosses patchwerk, with Short duration
slender hare
depends on if its m+ or raid
teal snow
SS is still fine for fights like Zul and other multi target fights right?
white lance
Would like to get a longer sim, like 5-10 mins of 5 mobs for 30 sec, 5 sec downtime, 5 mobs for 30 again and repeat. Simming just 5 mobs for 40 sec assumes you have all cds ready. Dunno how to set that up though
slender hare
Whats scenario is that for?
white lance
M+
slender hare
m+ without restealth?
charred lantern
guys with SS and Crimson Tempest , do we apply ruptures or CT first after garrotes
white lance
With restealth, Thats the downtime
slender hare
well then you just sim 4-6 bosses patchwerk, no buffs
that gives you exactly that
40 second ish
it would end up being the same
well you wont have vendetta + vanish for every pack, but its the closest youll get
deep bloom
is there a guide on proper use sharpened blades ? like use only max stack? use only with toxic blade?
teal snow
Does poisoned knife do 100% nature damage? if so probably try to combine the two. If not just use before wasting stacks at like 27+?
glass cairn
gonna get nerfed soon
strange python
You wouldnt use it either way
slender hare
yeah its horrible to use
shadow pivot
its sin highest simming trait when using x3
but in uldir you would gain more damage by having 1x uldir trait
and you dont run st build in m+
so theres nowhere (unless pvp maybe) where 3x Sb really is the best
teal snow
Fair, i've just been running 2xSS either way since its a nice middle ground ST and Multi target trait and i already had it
brittle idol
What build do u run in m+?
teal snow
But thats good to know
shadow pivot
3x ss works, currently running 1x Archive + 2x SS because it simply sims higher to me. Ilvl plays a big role in this tho
teal snow
Yeah i'm doing the same since i got a 370 archive, head and it outsims my old 340 SS head. Anything with origin will beat out most op traits for everyone eventually anyways
Though for M+ i suppose it could be different, but to be honest, i'm only doing +10's so it really doesnt matter
strange python
@brittle idol only done +8 as highest but SS is still working well for me
terse viper
when you say ss are you refering to shrouded suffocation or swirling sands
I'd assume shrouded suff but wanna be sure
shadow pivot
shrouded
terse viper
ty
sand canyon
goood morning
wheat zealot
Hi muscle
jagged summit
@sand canyon any new trinkets today ? ๐
wheat zealot
Which one is you
fervent hearth
I've been on holiday for a week! I can't wait to log in and play my unnerfed Triple-SS-Rogue!
tardy narwhal
im Bruppe
acoustic lion
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
regal snow
Just copy ur logs into wowanalyzer @tardy narwhal
regal snow
Yw
opaque junco
What's wowanalyzer?
amber temple
amber temple
It's basically a tool that attempts to analyze your logs
kindred flame
"attempts" best description
amber temple
Well, not every spec is equally represented
kindred flame
Yea, its far from accurate on some fights
amber temple
Also, some metrics like downtime can be a little deceiving on some fights
kindred flame
Thats why attempts is perfect explanation ๐
amber temple
Aha, thought you were being sarcastic :P
kindred flame
Nah, nah 100% up to that
amber temple
๐
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
strange python
Finally getting the hang of Sin in dungeons
Now what I feel I need is a good way to keep track of dots applied, any suggestions?
serene glacier
WeakAura
strange python
Am running WA
icy cedar
I was asked to switch to outlaw/sub, for M+, is sin really behind?
strange python
@icy cedar i just pulled 15k dps overall in TD+6, it's fine still
and im a novice
@serene glacier any suggestion on a good WA?
serene glacier
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
serene glacier
I usually import some of these and customize them to my needs
indigo goblet
hey guys, is ss still bis trait?
frigid sleet
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
icy cedar
@strange python cool to know but what about high keys, with Fortified
sonic spindle
Is there a good fight log for me to link if I want to know why my dps is booty?
sonic spindle
Get that man some haste, stat.
hollow cloud
Yeh I only got 1.2 
slender hare
1.2?
slender hare
ahh
hollow cloud
eg around 17%
slender hare
thought u meant 1,2% and was like wat
cold meteor
Even with 12% hast it feel really slow like I can afk bio between each cast
strange python
@icy cedar did a +8 Waycrest yesterday, about the same numbers
icy cedar
so i think the question is, if i play 100% perfect on all rogue specs, which one performs best for M+ ?
sand canyon
No good trinkets
compact parrot
you cannot compare rogues, because they have different strengths
depends on the rest of your group
fickle viper
depends on dungeon and pulls you do as well
strange python
Could you say that Outlaw reigns on big mobpacks, Sin for extended dps and Sub for burst on MT/ST?
hollow escarp
strange python
Yes
lone junco
@hollow escarp outlaw doesnt need the restealth, but once you get out of your blade flurry window, the aoe drops. where as CT is good forever, but you need restealth if you plan to use SS.
strange python
@lone junco And without SS dps goes down
lone junco
ct and rupture sustain is very high. and goes on forever.
strange python
?
lone junco
ish.
strange python
or does CT-spam with Rupt keep it up?
lone junco
ss is great if you can contact 3 mobs during the open.
then you rupture ct for sustain.
talking 20-30k dps every pull of 3 or more elites.
nothing will burst to 100k but it is ready over and over and over.
little sparrow
Sin most likely @icy cedar , i'd just play what you like or are the most comfortable with
lone junco
@hollow cloud funny thing about that stat weight, is that in cleave haste is bottom and mastery is top.
little sparrow
Hey noobe, I've never used CT do you think it's better than PB in M+?
And do you use it before or after rupture?
lone junco
over an entire dungeon PB is like 2.5%. Ct can be around 12-35% per pull
g g g ct. fok fok rupture each elite, then refresh ct.
little sparrow
Do you put CT up in ST situations too or naw?
strange python
what does fok mean?
lone junco
is what I do. you can change that open for a baddy prio
g g g r vendetta mut mut rupture exang fok fok ct.
little sparrow
Fan of knives
strange python
ah
little sparrow
Yes
lone junco
general rule is to never mut at 4
bright shale
Are you better off just putting a 4cp rupture ?
lone junco
and finish at 4/5cps
little sparrow
Any CP lost is a dps loss
little sparrow
Wait so for ST you keep CT up too right?
little sparrow
Damn
bright shale
And pooling TB for envenom also not worth it?
lone junco
@bright shale I dont use TB in M+
little sparrow
100 row?
lone junco
exang rips the ss on a prio target every pull. and feeds you energy
little sparrow
Exsang is better, esp if you're a troll and have galecallers
lone junco
tb just doesnt haev synergy for that
icy cedar
@little sparrow Thanks!, it's just was told to switch due to sub/outlaw being superior.. so now i got my answer also paired with testing
bright shale
But in uldir you want to run TB
lone junco
GC Exang is massive