assassination

[severe harbor]

moment of clarity is apparently best QoL talent from what I've heard since it makes u not run so dry on energy

[quartz rune]

@inland path Your MS opener is Garrote Mut Rupture Vendetta Vanish Toxic blade Mut Env

[severe harbor]

but does less damage than other 2

[terse viper]

if you don't wanna run out of energy you should just go predator in level 15 row

which resets your tigers fury

[high lotus]

Predator only really works in aoe thou gh

[terse viper]

yes

[high lotus]

Where adds die often

[severe harbor]

@arctic isle I could literally sit here and type out a proper sentence, look I'll do it right now for proof. I just don't like doing it unless I'm having a serious conversation.

[terse viper]

but as feral you can't choose between qol and damage

because feral kinda sucks

[arctic isle]

wow that was much better

good job

[severe harbor]

fuck yourself

[terse viper]

lol

[thorn grove]

Toxic

[arctic isle]

if i did i wouldnt be so toxic on here

[high lotus]

[severe harbor]

feral doesn't suck

at least not in pvp

literallt godd tier pvp spec

[terse viper]

well

[high lotus]

Nah, it's good in pvp but shit in pve

[severe harbor]

and it's mid tier in pve isnt it

not shit

[terse viper]

it's the worst spec in pve

m+ anyways

[severe harbor]

oh in M+ sure

but in raids

it's pretty alright

[terse viper]

because their aoe is actually probably the worst in the game

outside of like 10 second bursts

[severe harbor]

yeah they're being reworked soon

[tardy narwhal]

Anyone know why my Mizerok WA have double timers?

[severe harbor]

pretty sure the plan is for thrash to be a combo point finisher

[thorn grove]

Why play feral when balance is better a d more useful lul

[severe harbor]

should fix their big issues

[terse viper]

because feral is fun

[blazing galleon]

i have a decent geared feral and my rogue i dinged 2 days ago shits on it in m+

[severe harbor]

because balance can't go invisible and charge at someone from half the continent away

[quartz rune]

@tardy narwhal its probably cause the WA has timers and you have OmniCC too not sure though

[tardy narwhal]

@quartz rune Only using Elvui for bars

[quartz rune]

Do you have Blizzard Cooldown timers enabled?

[tardy narwhal]

hmm

Yea I do

[quartz rune]

Try to turn that off and if you still have the issue

You can just turn off the timers of the WA itself too. If that helps / you need to see other CDs then the ones in ur WA which you need your Blizzard CD timers for

[sand canyon]

yeees

i managed to lower my haste 4% lets fuckn go

[quartz rune]

M+ dream?

[leaden niche]

is it me or does heed my call seem to be tremendously oversimmed

[sand canyon]

yes

[tardy narwhal]

Ye it worked, but will disable on WA instead. Thanks 😃

[sand canyon]

31%crit 45%matery

the gasms are flying

[vestal abyss]

you running 3xSS with that?

[quartz rune]

Np Andy. Damn Muscle thats Pog

[sand canyon]

ofc

who needs fuckn haste man

just pump it

😄

[quartz rune]

I feel boss fights feel so clunky without haste

[sand canyon]

just pool more

beginning u have bl can burst ez 35k

after that u focus on poo,l

[quartz rune]

But for fort its great

[sand canyon]

so u do 2k less, whatever but u blast trash hardcore

[inland path]

lol

[quartz rune]

True but this week is pretty rough i feel like. Teeming fortified is oof. If you dont have a good grp you just delete. Last weeks affixes were so easy compared to this week

[sand canyon]

like 15k more on packs

[vestal abyss]

i somehow have versatility on 50% of my gear so im doing fuck all anyway

[sand canyon]

well teeming is overtuned af

and there are more then 1 pattern in dungeons which is toxic

[quartz rune]

Yeah waycrest is.. idk

[inland path]

u play sin still muscle?

[quartz rune]

Legit worst dungeon

[inland path]

wtf

[sand canyon]

@inland path i play sin/sub depends on grp and dungeon

[inland path]

u legit have 4% haste

LOL

[sand canyon]

ofc what u mean

[quartz rune]

In legion tyranic was way worse than fortified i feel like. And BFA i prefer Tyranic

[sand canyon]

u will not lol if u pump 60k in 10 targets

😄

"IS SS NOT NERFED??!!"

made my day

[inland path]

bruh...

im not even using a single ss anymore

[sand canyon]

u 2 u man

[inland path]

https://gyazo.com/9167e4a5ac124d734086782882ed0007

here are my stats

[quartz rune]

SS is still BiS for m+

[sand canyon]

The prob is tyrannical

your stats is overall good to play

ye

[regal snow]

U liars its at the bottom of bloodmallet Kappa

[oblique pendant]

btw how's monk in current meta?

cuz im leveling an alt and im still wondering

[storm lily]

Does Archives stack?

[inland path]

u got hella mastery

[dusk sun]

Monk is eh

[regal snow]

Ss full useless they said

[quartz rune]

Its okayish

Monk that is

[vestal abyss]

Is this correct:

opener:

• Garrote, garrote, garrote
• Crimson tempest
• Fan of knives for CP
• Start putting up rupture as long as Crimson tempest dot is still up

[sand canyon]

who said its useless??

[oblique pendant]

and btw SS is good

[dusk sun]

They cant keep up much in m+

[sand canyon]

lool

[oblique pendant]

im using 1 SS

[quartz rune]

Its not anywhere close as good as it was im Legion

[oblique pendant]

in raids

[sand canyon]

@vestal abyss i dont think thats true

[inland path]

mate can u link the raidbots shit on stream chat or disc

[regal snow]

Some people in here last hour ago @sand canyon

[dusk sun]

Try 2 DD 1SS for raids gonna do that

[sand canyon]

i obvsl dont talk about ST raids btw

[vestal abyss]

@sand canyon Whats better?

[quartz rune]

@dusk sun you should go at least 1 Reorgination array for raids

[sand canyon]

if u wanna play save dont know min max go 15+ haste

u will do good st and aoe

if u wanna go over 9k

stack mastery crit

[quartz rune]

With MA you dont need SS in raids at all

[sand canyon]

3x ss

[dusk sun]

Im unfortunate af so 😄

[sand canyon]

and blast like before nerf

with mastery trinkets

[quartz rune]

Unlucky

[dusk sun]

MA is viable now?

[regal snow]

Like motherlode trinket?

[sand canyon]

dooms wake GOD trinket

[quartz rune]

Yeah

[sand canyon]

super underrated

best trinket in game

u heared it from me first

[quartz rune]

Yea if u get it lol

[dusk sun]

But garrote subterfuge 😦

[inland path]

i dont even play subterfuge anymore

[sand canyon]

have to go now man

[inland path]

xdxd

[sand canyon]

hf guys ❤

cant chat

[quartz rune]

Cya muscle

Go blast them keys

[inland path]

im using MA

[regal snow]

Have a good one

[sand canyon]

will do for the rogue fam

[inland path]

and x1 archive x1 dd x1 thunderous (would pref smth else)

and master assassin sims 150 dps hgiher than subterfuge

even with a x1 SS trait

so

[dusk sun]

That means i could have 75% crit bc i have a basic 25% crit

[mortal warren]

Exsangs snapshots haste correct? so a bl after you applied exsang wont benefit it?

[vestal abyss]

Does anyone knows MuscleBrahs low haste opener + rotation?

[quartz rune]

Patrick yea MA is a thing now at least in raids

[dusk sun]

oh yea i agree for raids

[inland path]

MA is gd for dungs too

[quartz rune]

Indeed @mortal warren

[strange python]

MA sims 480 lower for me. idk wth you all on about

[dusk sun]

Probably since u are in and out of stealth

But u have to remember desolo sims dont account for some exceptional situations too

[dawn merlin]

subterfuge is still best by far for me as well

with only one ss

[strange python]

im still running triple SS in raids

[inland path]

obv it sims lower if u have x3 ss

i will link my sim if u want

[vestal abyss]

Yall cant just say this is not optimal and then ignore me after 😦

[quartz rune]

Well yeah ofc subt is better than

[mortal warren]

you should get one uldir trait for the origination buff

[cold meteor]

@vestal abyss garrot rupture garrote afk bio mutilate afk bio envenom, afk bio, and so on

[inland path]

even at x1 SS MA is better than subterfuge

[knotty cedar]

is 4 boss patchwerk 20 seconds best m+ sim?

[dusk sun]

Get triple DD then use MA :kreygasm:

[strange python]

triple SS is still subterfuge.

[vestal abyss]

@cold meteor for M+ 4+ target aoe?

[quartz rune]

Double DD and 1 orgination buff

[dusk sun]

Of course

[quartz rune]

With MA

Pog

[dusk sun]

Desolo ur talent should synergize with traits for it to sim better

[cold meteor]

@vestal abyss for 3+ target it's garrot garrot garrot CT, then FoK ans Rup eveything

[strange python]

well yea I dont got lazer or archive I only got triple SS and sharpened blades. SS still sims highest for me

[vestal abyss]

@cold meteor Thats what i just said adn then @sand canyon was like "nah"

[cold meteor]

🤔

[strange python]

and tbh my dps only went down by like 300 with the nerf sim wise

[dawn merlin]

really annoying that I have to keep resetting azerite traits on the fetid chest depending on if I am going m+ or raiding

[strange python]

its not terrible still viable imho

[dawn merlin]

not like I want to keep any of my gold

[wise whale]

ST did not get hit that much

[quartz rune]

Desolo whats ur Ilvl

I lost like 800 dps

[strange python]

365

[wise whale]

m+ is noticable

[inland path]

musclebrah is not a theorycrafter. he just plays what is the best at the time

[dawn merlin]

I lost 600 at 359 with only 2 ss

[inland path]

hes legit stacking mastery with 4% haste claiming its the best

[dawn merlin]

how did you lose so little

[inland path]

lol

[strange python]

idk?

[vestal abyss]

Sounds pretty strong for M+ trash not gonna lie

[wise whale]

did you have 3ss?

[strange python]

yea

3 ss

[wise whale]

and did you compare it to 3ss now or to something else now?

[static tapir]

What about Blightborne Infusion? Good trait?

[strange python]

compare dit to 3 ss pre nerf

[wise whale]

3ss pre nerf vs 3ss now on ST?

[strange python]

yep

[dusk sun]

Heres the thing, SS nerf did not make it unviable

[wise whale]

only 300? weird

[vestal abyss]

Something being nerfed by 40% and it still being viable kind of says something

[paper root]

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=azerite_traits&fight_style=hecticaddcleave&type=trait_stacking&tier=3

[strange python]

I was a little salty when I saw nerf but after simming and putting into practice Im still going to run it

[dusk sun]

Yeap bc think about it, you have a trait the synergizes well with subterfuge

[strange python]

its not unviable. theres thigns better but its not shit

[wise whale]

but if you thing about its actually not htat weird because it only effect 1 subt every 2 min in ST

and there it only effect 40% of the bonus damage of st not the whole gar dmg

[arctic isle]

sticking to ss on st is not a good idea

[dusk sun]

Thats true

[tardy narwhal]

Do you use Subterfuge with 0x SS?

[dusk sun]

But raid mostly arent st it has at least a minor cleave

Am i right

[strange python]

^

[wise whale]

yes but sim does not consider that

[static tapir]

Im running 2x SS 340 and 1x Blightborne Infusion 370 and it feels good with subterfuge for m+

[wise whale]

so yeah 300 is fine i think

[dusk sun]

Isnt there an option to set the fight conditions?

[quartz rune]

But minor cleave is not really great for ss

[half ginkgo]

how do i get AotT +10? What does that mean?

[strange python]

@quartz rune what?

[quartz rune]

You have to have adds up whenever ur vanish gets back up / on opener

Otherwise u get literally nothing from ss

[dusky rose]

whats the talent tree for sharpened blade stack

[wise whale]

@half ginkgo you need to kill 3 uldir bosses for 1 weeks

[dusky rose]

and whats the opener like

[meager knoll]

for 10 weeks*

[wise whale]

10 yes sry

lfr works too

[half ginkgo]

ah get it, thank you

[quartz rune]

@dusky rose EP MA TB PB is important

[half ginkgo]

can i use 2 pieces with aott? is it viable?

[wise whale]

no

it does not stack

[half ginkgo]

damn ^^, thanks!

[meager knoll]

the normal trait stacks, but not the reorigination array

[wise whale]

yes

[meager knoll]

afaik

[quartz rune]

Opener is Garrote Mut Rupt Vendetta Vanish TB Mut Env and throw SB whenever stacked

Try to lign up with 2nd vendetta / vanish

[wise whale]

throw first Sb before vendetta runs out

but otherwise that how i am opening wit MA

[meager knoll]

I feel stupid now.. SB?

[quartz rune]

Sharpened blades

[meager knoll]

ah.. two sharpened blade and one uldir trait is recommended?

[wise whale]

the one where poisoned knife stacks to 30

[meager knoll]

or two double dose and uldir trait?

[wise whale]

i thinkg 2 dd is better

sim wise

but SB is verry good too

[dusk sun]

Sb is better at 2-3

[static tapir]

And what is best for m+?

[dawn merlin]

remind me, any dd piece in uldir?

[wise whale]

3SS for m+

[dusk sun]

Usually SS

But usually higher ilvl for raids is gucci

[static tapir]

And its worth 3x 340ilvl ss instead of 2ss 340 and 1 Blightborne Infusion ilvl 370?

[wise whale]

that a case for simming it

[quartz rune]

Probably yeah

But sim it

[sand canyon]

@vestal abyss sry didnt have to much time to answer cause busy atm but i meant only the last parts its not the best choice to always go for full rupture cause depends on pack trash size how long live ct spam can be > rup spam. if u have enough rup running in most comps spamming ct > going for rup 10 targets, u will get a feeling for it when its the best time to rup and when to ct, but to wait till it runs out is never always the best choice. because u insta do dmg to every mob if u apply it if u gonna rup 20 mobs u need 40 gcds

[quartz rune]

1 DD > 1 SB but 2 SB>2DD

And for raids u always want one uldir trait

[vestal abyss]

@sand canyon I see thank you

[sand canyon]

np, basically u wanna rup only as much as u need u dont starve energy and spam cts

thats how you can do 100k as sin

in a giga pull

with rupter u will never ever do

theory=/=praxis

[dusk sun]

Remember to rup 3-4 targets that will live long enough, you just need rup for massive energy regens 😄

[quiet dagger]

So on big pulls Crimson Tempest on CD and not rupture them ?

[quartz rune]

Look what he just wrote

[dusk sun]

CT has no cooldown right?

[manic remnant]

is triple SS still worth or is there another way to go?

[quartz rune]

It literally says right there

[meager knoll]

CT has no cooldown... rupture 3-4 targets

[quartz rune]

Felmir for m+ its the way to go

[manic remnant]

raids?

[dusk sun]

CT til u can pandemic

Raids u can go another route

[quartz rune]

1 uldir trait and SB/DD preferably

2SB>2DD

[manic remnant]

SB?

[dusk sun]

Shapened blades

[manic remnant]

so 1 uldir and 2 SB is the best?

[wise whale]

do you guys have any tips for dps on teloc

i dont know what to do in the elevator phase

[quartz rune]

Yea pretty much felmir

[meager knoll]

kill adds

[quartz rune]

But any case.. Just Sim yo self

[quiet dagger]

What is your oppinion for Blightborne Infusion ?

[quartz rune]

Koto yeah u kill adds and if possible try to take 5 cps from last add to new so u can insta rupture again

[dusk sun]

Its good if nothing else is better

[quartz rune]

Without wasting energy / cps that is

[wise whale]

ok is see

it sucks with all the stuff on the fllor maybe my tank does not pull the adds right

[leaden niche]

Class=Rogue, Spec=Subtlety, Agility=1.9, CritRating=1.73, HasteRating=1.29, MasteryRating=1.4, Versatility=1.62, Dps=9.64, OffHandDps=1.05 )
Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, Agility=1.99, CritRating=1.96, HasteRating=2.0, MasteryRating=1.82, Versatility=1.79, Dps=9.93, OffHandDps=1.14
Lol, sin vs sub scaling for me @371

[static tapir]

For me haste > agi in sims

[dusk sun]

Probably coz u have low haste

[leaden niche]

no lol

[static tapir]

Im at 1070 haste

[dusk sun]

The more u have of a stat the less its valuable

[leaden niche]

haste is like 500 ahead of crit m8

[quiet dagger]

How you sim for multi target ? Patchwerk or hecktik add cleave > 4-5 > 1 min or there is more accurate sim settings ?

[wise whale]

40sex

sec

[leaden niche]

trash or boss?

[dusk sun]

1070 is low

Thats like 15%

[jaunty arrow]

U still need crit and mustery so u cant go only with haste 🤔

[wise whale]

i got 17% at 352

[stone quartz]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[strange python]

Assassin's is still strong guyzzz

[umbral berry]

yes

[tropic hull]

I have crazy ( and bad prehaps) theory guys for m+ opener on boss with bl. Scince exang snapshot your current haste, what about if we just stack 21 sec garrote on pull, continue our rotation, vendetta on 31sec -> rupture 32sec> vanish-> 2garrote>rupture-> galecaller and exang at the end of bl?

[static tapir]

Herodamage says SS for dungeons is like 3rd worst.. this is stupid

[meager knoll]

why not exsang at the start of the fight?

[strange python]

sin for m+ is really nice if you have a warrior tank

I run 3 SS and exsang is still much worse than TB for me

[quiet dagger]

You are simming your characters in raidbots right ?

[kind stump]

Warrior tank, does anyone still actually play that

[strange python]

yes my m+ group has a warrior tank since forever ^^

I think herodamage dungeons is ST still

or at least that's the only way it makes sense

[quartz rune]

Unknown why would you delay your dps cooldown while BL is active?

[tropic hull]

Because exang snapshot your haste. You need max haste before you cast exang.

[strange python]

felukall what ilvl r u

368 ilvl

[quartz rune]

Yea if u Bl on Pull and do normal SS opener and Galecaller before Exsg u have max haste too

[strange python]

Hmmm then you exsang should be better in sims TB was better until I hit 360

[quartz rune]

Trinkets/Navigation is not worth to wait for

[strange python]

hmm I dunno then

[kind stump]

Depends on your secondary stats, there is no secret ilvl where tb becomes worse

[quartz rune]

@tropic hull you pretty much just waste CDs and get less dps so totally not worth it

[tropic hull]

yea maybe

[static tapir]

Tb better for m+?

[quartz rune]

Genreally no

[tropic hull]

delay cd is dps lose overall i agree

[quartz rune]

But sim yo self / depends on traits

I mean if u Vendetta at 31 sec of BL

[tropic hull]

i just thinking we can "extend" bl with that opener

[quartz rune]

U lose literally 11 secs of Vendetta BL

[tropic hull]

yea

[meager knoll]

you lose more than you gain

[quartz rune]

So yeah that alone makes it not worth at all

[meager knoll]

sure, the burst might be a bit higher if you wait for haste gain from navigation and possibly traits

but you're leaving a CD unused for too long, so that offsets the gain

[quartz rune]

Is it higher though?

I highly doubt it

I mean try it and youll see it urself

[meager knoll]

more haste should mean more damage? It's definitely gonna be worse overall

[tropic hull]

maybe for last boss 🤔

[quartz rune]

But what burst are u refering to?

[elder cypress]

is 3x uldir azerit trait worth it?

[quartz rune]

The 1 Min burst or the Exsg burst?

[meager knoll]

exsg

[tropic hull]

boss live like 1 40 right now in m+ with good group

it's depend of course

[quartz rune]

Even with trinkets and navigation haste

[meager knoll]

total should be lower, since.. you wouldn't be using your spells

[quartz rune]

I doubt it would be higher cazse ur exsg Rupturr doesnt have full Vendetta uptime

[smoky moth]

weird question but how much dps do you think vanish adds over 5 mins? couple hundred?

[quartz rune]

What traits? ST or Multi?

[smoky moth]

running subturfuge

ST

basically i'm running 400dps less than i sim on a dummy

[crystal robin]

so i understand now that shrouded suffocation is no longer good even with 3 stacked

[smoky moth]

and can't vanish because it resets details and no friends online

[tropic hull]

Well. Maybe i can make cutstom apl and sim will provide. That might be work for last boss in m+

if last boss bl

[kind stump]

Make it so it doesnt reset

[quartz rune]

Chine thats wrong

[crystal robin]

so sim is fucked ?

[quartz rune]

No

Its still good

But there are better things now

Also depends on the content ur doing. You cant just straight up say its not good

[crystal robin]

yeah but i see for example ss < filthy transfusion

on armor 385

i'm doing raid and m+

[tropic hull]

ST 5 min? @crystal robin

[quartz rune]

3x SS is still go to in m+

[crystal robin]

yeah st 5 min, on m+ i'm using 2 ss + engineering helm

hectic add, for m+ generation

[tropic hull]

SS is not great right now for long fights

[quick chasm]

is there a reason that all WQ emissaries give swords/axes/maces, do I need to get my outlaw weaponilvl up for them to drop daggers?

[tropic hull]

@crystal robin i think better sim like ~4-5 boss 40 sec right now for adds and 2 min boss for m+

[grizzled harness]

It's not based on you

It's Blizzard's choice

[crystal robin]

@tropic hull ty for the info

[sand canyon]

@inland path what do u mean, i use sims all the apls, i tried everything out haste 4-18% every scenario, just bs.

[bleak river]

when do you pop trinket in the openerbtw?

[sand canyon]

and when i sum up and have my own exp which is best, its my fact

[meager abyss]

if I sim a 20 dps loss using master poisoner vs elaborate planning wouldnt it be better just to take master poisoner since its much easier to maintain its effect?

[tropic hull]

sim for cleave burst etc

[meager abyss]

2true

[storm epoch]

does any1 know a good pve assasin rogue to follow/watch?

[chrome umbra]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/36m48rgB4MpBC2dviQ32V

Big

Nerfs**

[storm epoch]

you run no SS traits?

[violet sonnet]

370+ Is when we were projected to be at our best.

[chrome umbra]

Nah I run 2 SS for m+ on certain dungeons still

But nah no SS anymore.

[proven talon]

whats the current opener rotation with master assasin?

[neon sequoia]

so what's the best spec then objectively now for pve since all the nerfs? 😄

[storm epoch]

what do you think are the best traits atm

to run

@chrome umbra

[chrome umbra]

Garrote > multilate > rupture > mut mut tb vanish envenom mut (pray for crit ) envenom

Elaborate planning 100% tbh. Master poisoner for m+ if you need the slows

[storm epoch]

why vanish before envenom? O.o

[violet sonnet]

Whats your raid traits?

[stable arch]

@wild zodiac 👀

[winged parrot]

Nightstalker or Ma I suppose

[chrome umbra]

Get to fit in an extra envenom with MA. Truth be told MA sucks dick anyways if there’s anything you can subterfuge pad on.

[wild zodiac]

Hello @stable arch

[crimson basin]

14 758 DPS with 372 ilvl 😐

[chrome umbra]

Got lucky with Azerite only really l0l

[violet sonnet]

Your azerite pieces are very nice i do say

[magic zenith]

Went back and tried m+ as outlaw and sin last night. Very familiar with outlaw, but in teeming fortified sin felt much better.

Outlaw runs out of damn bladefury, and the bosses melt so fast that sin is far ahead.

[strange python]

any tips for mythrax pad 😃

[tropic hull]

@magic zenith same. Assa too good for fort key

[strange python]

im cloaking on my teammates and rupturing mc's already

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[sleek jetty]

!wa

[magic zenith]

I might swap back to outlaw for raid though

[stone quartz]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[winged parrot]

Your poor raid lead tho

[magic zenith]

Why?

[storm epoch]

@chrome umbra you run 3 different traits in raid?

[winged parrot]

You cloak debuff in the middle of the raid right?

[magic zenith]

Sure

[winged parrot]

Not you

[magic zenith]

Ah

[strange python]

yea i cloak debuff right on all the melee

[fallow estuary]

by the way

did they really nerf ss without fixxing the bug?

[warm geode]

!ss

[prisma monolith]

Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.

[chrome umbra]

@storm epoch yea

prob gonna switch to all archive somewhere down the line.

[crystal robin]

what battle potion are you using agility or bursting blood?

[fallow estuary]

small indie company

[atomic karma]

archive doesnt stack

and isnt good outsdie of raid

[storm epoch]

@atomic karma so its pointless to have more than 1 archive trait?

[atomic karma]

from what im told

[edgy monolith]

Why are the sim still exsang with SS traits

-_-

[elfin tiger]

@atomic karma why does blood mallet stack them then?

[atomic karma]

idk im just listening to peeoplz

[kind stump]

Archive stacks, reorigination array doesnt

[elfin tiger]

Yeah

[chrome umbra]

yea i think reorigination array doesnt stack but archive does

[atomic karma]

oh thats right

so ye it doesnt make it that good

[elfin tiger]

Archive stacks and it's amazing in the raid

[strange python]

what do you mean its not that good

its a ton of agility

[chrome umbra]

each archive is like an extra flask

x)

[elfin tiger]

Its better than other traits

[lament dove]

Uldir azerites have 2 traits, so even if you have more, they give you the first trait, it's not like you have to replace one just because you have another

reorigination is just an extra which you get if you have 1+ uldir azerite

[strange python]

yea

[lament dove]

in other words optimally you need one uldir azerite, and then the others can be uldirs or not uldirs, doesn't matter

[little frigate]

optimally inside uldur

uldir

[lament dove]

yes, this goes only in uldir ofc

[little frigate]

im steadily starting to hate this whole azerite system

[crystal robin]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6RY5vUXfwLojKnHAnToeWW this one is 370 armor with archive trait
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/841kKf7Ms3DC8X4RhxvTAs this one is with 385 armor with ss trait and 2 other ss traits
seems that i get higher dps with 370 armor

[strange python]

what else is new

[magic zenith]

Do you hate the system or do you hate the balancing?

[storm epoch]

system

[crystal robin]

system for me as well

its retarted

[strange python]

would be better if it never existed and we got some azerite themed talent tree from the heart orsmth

[storm epoch]

is there anywhere to see how good archive is outside of raids?

uldir*

[glass cairn]

stacking dd trait now, huh ?

[tropic hull]

archive for uldir

[magic zenith]

Yeah I got a big survey from blizzard in my email about it, and shifting to learning the traits as you found them is what I suggested.

[glad oxide]

you can turn off the stacks in advanced settings on raidbots

[proven talon]

@chrome umbra

Garrote > multilate > rupture > mut mut tb vanish envenom mut (pray for crit ) envenom

[crystal robin]

@glass cairn what is dd trait?

[glass cairn]

double dose

[proven talon]

where do u vendetta

[prime pasture]

question, does raidbots always assume you have the reorigination array when you sim an azerite with it? or just the archive itself?

[tropic hull]

if you import from simc addon yea

[celest swan]

hey if im still "suck" with 3 SS traits does anything change for opner playstyle, m+ whatever? or same rules apply?

[tropic hull]

you can turn off stacks

[celest swan]

*stuck 😄

not suck sry

[little frigate]

@magic zenith the system, due to it being nigh impossible to balance. IMO, traits should've been fun, utility based rather than performance enhancing.

[tropic hull]

nothing changes

[glass cairn]

@crystal robin double dose

[crystal robin]

double dose is very low on bloodmallet

at trait stacking

[magic zenith]

@little frigate like legos? kappa

[storm epoch]

@crystal robin no?

[little frigate]

Legendaries were obviously performance enhancing

[tropic hull]

making trait so expensive for respec and that balance

[magic zenith]

respec is crazy expensive.

[tropic hull]

makes people wanna find azerite for st and aoe. When people find that trait -> nerf. I'm not about ss nerf right now.

[glass cairn]

@chinese

[little frigate]

Blizzard keep shooting themselves in the knees. Balance classes and specs, dont overcomplicate shit with performance enhancing traits.

[glass cairn]

@crystal robin very low you mean 3rd after the raid ones?

[crystal robin]

oh i was on hectic add cleave

[little frigate]

Make traits something you seek due to it being fun, not because you need it

[tardy narwhal]

Is the Ravenholdt.net opener correct or outdated?

[magic zenith]

I'm not sure I understand what the difference is. Not being combative, but what would you consider a fun trait that's not performance enhancing?

[little frigate]

for example

remember in firelands the weapon that turned kitties into fire kitties?

[magic zenith]

So glyphs?

[little frigate]

that graphic, is not something you need to perform well, but everyone wanted it

so people would still seek th eitems, but they wouldnt NEED it to perform

make traits like that

[ashen dock]

talents for single target ?!

trying to sim, shits being weird

[tropic hull]

not in this expansion

[little frigate]

make traits useful, fun, but not something that makes or breaks your role

obviously this is just my opinion; ive been saying the same about tier set bonuses too

since TBC

[pale knot]

did they fix the garrote bug yet ?

[tropic hull]

no

[crystal robin]

man this fucking azerite traits are annoying as fuck

[pale knot]

ofc

[halcyon phoenix]

the only issue i have with azerite traits is that you cant reliably farm them

[shadow pivot]

more importantly make traits farmable. rn if you want azerites over 340 you need to be lucky in raids (1x/week) or weekly chest. sucks to remain with a 340 Shoulder when you're 370 ilvl.

[tropic hull]

they nerfed ss so why fix bug

[crystal robin]

i'm getting really really frustrated i need to change, i diseanchanted other armors

[glass cairn]

big mistak

[shadow pivot]

i wouldnt give a damn about -40% nerfs / +100% ups if I could collect all azerites armors from mm+ quick, and adapt to the patch

[crystal robin]

seems i have better sim dps with 370 armor with better azerite than 385 with ss

[tropic hull]

making azerite bind on m+ chest, raids and arena is a mistake

[magic zenith]

So are people trying MA with DD instead of SB now?

[worn oar]

Sorry i got confused

[tropic hull]

if someone don't wanna or can't go in raids - they will be use 340 for a long time

[shadow pivot]

SB has never really been the best option since SB is only good with 3x Sb, and 3x SB = No uldir trait

[worn oar]

Should i use 3 ss at m+

?

[tropic hull]

yes

[rigid walrus]

385 construct overchager sims 100dps lower than 340 galecallers sigh

[crimson basin]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/94u1E78RuiXahwV9VKpjg5
I've been lucky at everything but traits so my dps is trash (:

[magic zenith]

I haven't been in here since yesterday morning, and even 24 hours ago people were memeing about MA SB, that's why I asked. ;D

[boreal spoke]

wa

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[limber dagger]

Guys when fighting a boss, and using vanish to re-aply garrote, do i use garrote multiple times to get the full time out of it?

[fresh bough]

I vanish with 2cp garotte rup garotte

If single target ofc

[worn oar]

When you vanish Just do. 2 garrote

[storm epoch]

i always double garrote, with SS traits atleast

[limber dagger]

so basically like the standard opener?

[worn oar]

But do You use one more garrote when get out off vanish?

[lament dove]

yes, to make it longer

[worn oar]

Im getting too confused

[limber dagger]

when i have 3+ enemies and opening the fight, should i just back to back to back garrote until its on cd, regarding of cp?

garrote on different targets ofc

[magic zenith]

Ignore capping cp when doing your garrote

[worn oar]

Garrote ALL the targets possible

[lament dove]

only 3 times, because after that subterfuge ends and a bug f*cks up everything with your 4th garrote

!ss

[prisma monolith]

Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.

[lament dove]

if you're using SS at least, otherwise it doesn't matter

[worn oar]

@prisma monolith só i Just dont use garrote when get out off vanish?

[limber dagger]

damn lol okay good to know

[lament dove]

that is a bot:)

[tardy narwhal]

@lament dove Do you Rupture all in an aoe rotation as well?

[lament dove]

you use garrote 3 times on multitarget, or 2 times on singletarget

[signal salmon]

Rapture need a target for a good duration

[lament dove]

you should put up like 3 ruptures in aoe as well to get energy regen going

[limber dagger]

only 3 targets?

[formal ermine]

how to best keep damage after opener?

[limber dagger]

is more than 3 targets energy overkill?

[little frigate]

@worn oar no, not all targets. Only 3

[worn oar]

@little frigate yes know i got It...

[hot snow]

quick q - aoe or st for H Ghuun?

logs say st ?

[warm parcel]

What 3

Again

Where does this pointless random magic number come from

There is no haste cap

There is no crit cap

There is no dot cap

[remote oak]

If you can apply rupture to an enemy that won’t die before the duration is up you should be doing that instead of envenoming

[vestal abyss]

Does anyone know what damage dislpay addon Infexious uses? :|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCHLKAg_1xU

btw i didnt know about this bug

its kinda big

a thousand people are typing but no messages appear

[worn oar]

So in opening should i use in vanish 2 garrote And rupture and then i use one more garrote out of vanish

[willow mulch]

the pinned guide has an opener posted

[tribal jolt]

With the Nerf to SS, is it still best to triple stack the Azerite or should we go back to farming for other Az pieces? I've been looking over bloodmallet but I feel there is still some benefit to at least 1 SS.

[willow mulch]

blood mallet should be updated to my knowledge

[strange python]

just seen where SS stands now since nerf. god that trait took a hit lol

[devout jolt]

3 x SS is still strong in M+

not so much in Uldir as Uldir traits are strong there

obviously, its in the name

[ruby girder]

CT is the go to for M+ this week ?

[strange python]

will it beat any uldir trait in M+ though or do uldir traits only work in raid?

[devout jolt]

yeah, think it is most weeks tbh

they only work in raids

well, they work ewverywhere

but you get a bonus when in Uldir raids

[half mortar]

Nerf inc

[pallid hamlet]

Does the uptime on garrote and rupture in warcraftlogs and wowanalyzer only count on the boss or the adds too?

[devout jolt]

that 3 x trait @half mortar ?

[serene glacier]

took me a while to find what is supposed to be xd

[devout jolt]

same ha

[half mortar]

Yeah mate got lucky on warfront today and got 3rd piece

Ye sorry about that

[serene glacier]

ranged rogue

[devout jolt]

delete people in wpvp

new age range bounty hunting rogues

[queen tiger]

Is Master Poisoner viable? or the dps loss vs Elaborate Planning is not worth?

[serene glacier]

to little mastery to make MP great

[cold meteor]

I still refuse to play SB

[half mortar]

If you cheap shot then first you can squeeze another 12k into that crit

[serene glacier]

I played ranged rogue in Ashran back in wod... didn't have a pc for melee xd

[half mortar]

Shadow hunter class inc

[magic zenith]

How does warcraftlogs handle tuning?

[quartz rune]

They dont

If u mean like old logs etc

[marble hemlock]

If theres a really huge tuning pass with a patch, they generally sort logs by patch-number

[quartz rune]

They dont get tuned down or sth it just gets harder to get good logs

[marble hemlock]

But for smaller passes like the one this wednesday, they just dont do anything

[clear jacinth]

Hello I had a question about CT. I tried looking at the guide but found no mention to this but is there a number of targets that makes it worth to use CT every time as a spender ignoring the duration on it?

[quartz rune]

6+

[clear jacinth]

and if you spec into CT is it worth to keep CT on ST encounters in dungeons?

thank you 😃

keep CT up *

[quartz rune]

But you still have to keep Rupture on some targets to not starve of energy

U dont CT on ST

[clear jacinth]

okay makes sense

is the 3 target rule that's thrown around here legit?

[magic zenith]

Interesting, I was still hitting mid to high 80s after the Nerf so I should be happy with that I guess. 😊

[compact parrot]

Hey guys, I have a few questions and I rly rly hope y’all can help me, because im probably the worst sin-player ever but I really want to change that:
During BL, would you rather chain ep or chain envenom?
Do you generally rather try to chain envenom or ep?
Do I hold off vendetta for vanish or vanish for vendetta?
If exs comes off cd soon, do you refresh your dots early or hold off exs for when you genuinely have to refresh dots?
Same question with vendetta.
Do you refresh dots (even if early), if you have to switch to another target (e.g. an add)?
Sorry for spamming, and some things may seem obvious to you, but Im be really grateful for answers. Heres a log from Fetid Devourer hc if youre interested: https://goo.gl/qa1xQU
You can also pm me of course. Thank you ❤

[clear jacinth]

I'm also interested to know the answers to some of those questions :p

[weak pine]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[magic zenith]

our dots don't snapshot other than subterfuge, so no need to refresh dots for vendetta.

You wanna refresh dots for exs prior to it coming off of CD, try to time the GCD so just as you're done refreshing them you can hit it

[cedar meteor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bSNTvtWxt8bu4DNKtVieSK

[cold meteor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3TP1gVw84MjhEEKfCpkuKa
I need a better GCB, but affixes this week are like hell

[oblique pendant]

just depleted Waycrest +10

it was fucking hell

like fucking hell

[royal lantern]

dont do underoot

[west frost]

Ya not a good week for it

[cedar meteor]

just 40deeps diferent beetwen ss and sb for ST what is that point change to SB

[dapper moat]

Do you generally rather try to chain envenom or ep?
what u mean by this?

[royal lantern]

when you get that key, just destroy it and be done

[dapper moat]

envonom keeps up your eb

[oblique pendant]

we had fun situation during second boss fight

[daring imp]

@royal lantern LUL the mini worms giving trouble?

[oblique pendant]

pack of witches just spawned in center of our group

killed healer and then disappeared xD

[compact parrot]

@magic zenith ty;
@dapper moat : Yes, but eps duration is shorter than envenom. And rupture also triggers ep, but not envenom

So if i chain envenom, ep runs out before

if i chain ep, envenom debuff is overwritte

[little frigate]

I got kings rest 9 in my chest

[compact parrot]

*n

[little frigate]

instant destroy

[royal lantern]

nah, you either skip the pack with 3 priest 2 warmatrons 2 headhunters and 1 mask

[cold meteor]

haha

[strange python]

is wowanalyzer good for sin?

[cold meteor]

I was like "King this week will be free"

Then I see the trash between 2nd & 3rd boss

[royal lantern]

or the pack with the 4 worms/tons of ticks or with 2 leaches, 2 worms 3 slimes and 3 plants lol

and then you reach the 2nd boss and need too clear around 30 adds

[dapper moat]

on st fight if rupture is ticking i see nn for ep just envenom as much as u can but i play with tb so not sure if ex changes things

[royal lantern]

and chain pulling doesnt work cus every pack has atleast 2x the leaches that fixate players

[leaden niche]

Are we doing 3pt envenoms for ep uptime current ly

[daring imp]

oy the pack right before 3rd boss

2 berserkers + 2 of the big guys

mate

[strange python]

@leaden niche I don't think so, at least not according to guide... You can keep it up during vendetta anyway

[daring imp]

...

[compact parrot]

Well, thanks to those trying to help me

[ember mountain]

tfw you're a higher ilevel but sim lower because all you get is high level azerite items with bad traits

[cold meteor]

@leaden niche Sim yourself and then check APL

[leaden niche]

Ty @cold meteor I'll try that

[boreal spoke]

!wa\

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[cold meteor]

For me it says "Envenom at 4+ (5+ with DS) CP. Immediately on 2+ targets, with Vendetta, or with TB; otherwise wait for some energy. Also wait if Exsg combo is coming up."

[indigo verge]

what do u guys think are the easiest dungeons this week

[hollow jungle]

when do you pair berserking with assassination?

[analog glade]

Best spec for mm+ in assa plz ?

Talent

[white seal]

Whats the best azerite combo now?

[acoustic lion]

If you open with 3x garrote, vanish and 3 garrotes again, they all 6 buffed?

[analog glade]

y

[near current]

I feel like I sim very low for my ilvl. I’ve simmed different combinations of talents/asserite pieces, and this is the highest I get. Any ideas? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gAaUbyr9311gBBfXfe1rFJ

[cold meteor]

wep

[royal lantern]

people with 16k+ sims where lucky with trinkets weapons and azerite traits, 14k is pretty good lol

[undone cairn]

Is there a general cap for mastery when looking at MT?

[white seal]

I sim 13.4k qwith 360 😦

[cold meteor]

14k5 with 360

[stoic bolt]

when to pick Toxic Blade over Exsanguinate?

welp i thought it depends on the situation.

[strong folio]

If you dont have 3 ss

At least on my sims

[cold meteor]

@near current remove versa nav for quick nav 1st
Then pick Uldir trait on your chest

[burnt lagoon]

are we still supposed to run 3xSS in m+?

[unreal sundial]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ej4ru7tYDxY4yv3h1YAPdU

i need to stop energy spamming evis when bladed are on cd

blades

[cold meteor]

That helm poggers

[daring imp]

what

@burnt lagoon for m+ it is still good, definitely

[unreal sundial]

mine? @cold meteor

[cold meteor]

ye

[unreal sundial]

poggers confuses me, i can never tell if its a good or bad thing lol

[cold meteor]

Shame on you you didn't does a +10

It would be a 385

[unreal sundial]

ah yeah, was a difficult first week to find a 10 i guess

[frank wyvern]

wow, double dose simming 200 dps over SS with same ilvl item (340)

such a shame, i really liked SS playstyle

[unreal sundial]

most people liked SS playstyle it was tasty dmg for little efforr

effort

[frank wyvern]

😄

[tropic pike]

How come seliathan takes exsanguinate over toxic blade?

in m+

[ember mountain]

and double dose is a lot of effort? 😄

[tropic pike]

I've seen the video where he discusses usage of of crimson tempest over bomb

[frank wyvern]

double dose you play like nothing changes 😄 so yeah, gg

[ember mountain]

ugh baby give me some traits that add nothing to gameplay

[near current]

@cold meteor ty for response. I have a 355 uldir trait on other helm but sims less than 370 envenom helm. I swapped nav for quick when went to sub to sim, will swap back. Guess just gotta work On getting better luck for chest and wep

[indigo verge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6mVF78T7oHjxcvHpeihRUz do you guys think i should be simming higher at this ilvl?

[unreal sundial]

yeah

[indigo verge]

what do you think is wrong with my gear

[unreal sundial]

maybe 700 more, but you must have a lot of mastery?

lemme look

[cold meteor]

with these wep, ofc yeah you should be higher

[indigo verge]

29% mastery

[cold meteor]

You forget 2nd azerite traits on every pieces

[indigo verge]

im not sure why it isn't showing up

[dark shoal]

Make mastery great again

[indigo verge]

i took it from my simc

[daring imp]

oy mastery is great for m+

[lament dove]

well there's not much you can do with ilevel if upgrades are upgrades, but have shitty stats:\

[warped oyster]

your helm is killing you

[unreal sundial]

yeah your helm is the main reasom tbh

[frank wyvern]

does it matter which enchant goes on which hand btw?

[indigo verge]

i do have another helm with SS but it sims lower

[cold meteor]

well 370 retaliator is better than 340 DD according to Herodamage

[tender walrus]

Guys is 3x ss still the way to go?

[unreal sundial]

i am 1x ss and 2x orig ray now

[warped oyster]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dtMNLvUgkjqNht2zzGeArk

[indigo verge]

is simc bugged not showing 2nd azerite traits?

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7Lca1FpPu8BooUpLv7uVTZ

[unreal sundial]

worked for me

[indigo verge]

@strange python

What are your stats?

[strange python]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/silvermoon/Àsana

[pallid hamlet]

Does anybody know if the rupture and garrote uptime only counts on bosses? When u are using wowanalyzer

like making sure u have it up on bosses, while u go for adds

[warm sable]

Are we back on ToxicBlade rotation >?

[strange python]

toxic + master assassin simming better

alot hard rotation and opener tho

harder*

[warm sable]

Whats the rotation than ?

[drifting elbow]

what?

how it is harder rotation

[burnt lagoon]

xD

[strange python]

its not as braindead as bleed and exang

[drifting elbow]

🤔

[sudden trench]

DD is great for sitting on a boss for 5 min straight, SS is still better for m+ and most of the raid bosses. The dmg you will get from SS is way more bec you do not have the uptime on a boss on any situation.

[daring imp]

oy exsang aint brain dead

wut

[strange python]

you have to pool energy and time better for your burts in tb

[sudden trench]

I sim at 16.2k with my DD traits and did more dmg with ss

[drifting elbow]

poisoner and blade talents is literally passive and push the skill in cd

🤔

its more braindead than exsang

[dark shoal]

Why raidbot and the real simulationcraft are giving me different results?

[strange python]

vala are you using weekly or nightly?

[drifting elbow]

different update versions

raidbot uses latest info with nightly

download version weekly if u took that

[dark shoal]

Aaah.

[strange python]

well keep garrote and rupture up so it doesnt run out while tb is upp, while still pooling enough energy so you can get atleast 3x envenoms during tb requires alot more thinking that exsg imo

[sudden trench]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iwCbeXfiaP8itKxGa7RZLu

I hate DD atm

[drifting elbow]

🤔

[strange python]

and you dont want tb of cooldown tolong while refreshing bleeds

[storm epoch]

@sudden trench what talents do you run?

[drifting elbow]

im not agreeing with that istea

[storm epoch]

@sudden trench and what's your opener?

[sudden trench]

just click the link bud

[storm epoch]

thanks

xd

[drifting elbow]

toxic blade doesnt itself require more thinking at all

exsang u need to think more to line up with fresh dot

[west frost]

Exsang requires more foresight

[strange python]

I would argue tb ma requires more foresight that exsang subterfuge

[storm epoch]

idk how to open with TB instead of exsang

[drifting elbow]

🤔

[fast nacelle]

🤔

[sand canyon]

yeeeeeeeeeeeeees#

385 HLD

have now dooms and hld 385

fucking luck after 3 years 😄

[unreal sundial]

link

no pic no pr0000ooof

[sand canyon]

cant

just come by and check it

[fast nacelle]

@sand canyon 💪

[unreal sundial]

sadtimes

[drifting elbow]

how is just waiting to have plenty of energy for after TB cd use is more planning

[night vale]

too many lies dude

such bait

😂

[indigo verge]

what is our bis helmet for single target atm?

[sand canyon]

@fast nacelle give me ur daggers

[strange python]

cuz of the reasons i said, tb is shorter cooldown and cuz you dont want tb to be ready for like several seconds before you have enough energy to use it and get the most of it

[wild zodiac]

@sand canyon who are you

[sand canyon]

nooname

[drifting elbow]

🤔 shorter cd

which u put in cd no matter what

[wild zodiac]

@sand canyon boost my warr in M+, k? 😃

[drifting elbow]

exsang, when u use in cd without any good dot planning is bad dps

🤔

[fast nacelle]

@sand canyon https://i.imgur.com/RgV7lzq.png

[strange python]

yes but exsg 45sec cd, tb is 25sec cd

[drifting elbow]

yea but they are 2 totally different cd functions

[drifting stump]

when I look at the azerite list on bloodmallet it looks like Shrouded Suffocation got nerfed into to ground... time to farm other traits ^^'

[drifting elbow]

TB itself doesnt make it critical failure on decisions

[wheat zealot]

Where have you been

[drifting elbow]

exsang is a lot more punishing if u dont plan well

[wheat zealot]

[warm sable]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oenZ7aCHEqFuE3HPyePime

i think this is low 2

[unreal coyote]

traits rule our lives

[sand canyon]

LOL TYRA

@wild zodiac i would but u are ded to me

[drifting elbow]

its not even nerfed to the bottom drt

[west frost]

Ya that does seem low damir

[strange python]

i guess we have to agree is disagree veqad, i played tb before exsg was top and now i'm back with tb and i find that its more challening and requires more planning @drifting elbow

[grizzled harness]

For 365 it is

[unreal coyote]

tb is absolutely braindead

is this a troll?

[strange python]

@drifting elbow i gues master assassin changes alot aswell tho

[unreal coyote]

like wtf

[grizzled harness]

TB's boring

[daring imp]

when the optimal rotation is "press on cd" i find it hard to call it more challenging, but ok, you do you @_@"

[west frost]

Ma just means you vanish before tb

Wat

[drifting elbow]

[sand canyon]

@quartz wind saw the trinkets?

[storm epoch]

what is the opener without exsang?

[sand canyon]

dude i need azerith feels so low man

[indigo verge]

my single target is simming higher with master assassination, is there a different rotation with that build or is it just the same?

[drifting stump]

@drifting elbow idk tbh I didn't played since the hotfix but it just seems like that

[drifting elbow]

check ravenholdt site guide comfort

[unreal coyote]

they are going to have to allow azerite gear from m+ man

this shit is for the birds

[drifting elbow]

i certainly dont notice huge losses for using 3 SS still after nerf

in m+

[wild zodiac]

@sand canyon why am I dead to you?

[sand canyon]

@wild zodiac u didnt send the riff shirts for mdi

[west frost]

@warm sable are your talents optimal? I would've thought you would want mp if you're tb

[sand canyon]

[wild zodiac]

@sand canyon you didn't win

[wheat zealot]

Mp sucks, ep foreva

[wild zodiac]

I also had quit wow when MDI was on 😂

[west frost]

Also what az traits are you running I can't see on mobile

[sand canyon]

@wild zodiac i win the hearts tho

LOL

[half mortar]

Better pic of the crit I got before with 3x SB

[wild zodiac]

my horde rogue is still just as I left him after that Nighthold heroic run I did with you @sand canyon 😄

[grizzled harness]

121k

[sand canyon]

LOL

[grizzled harness]

wat

[west frost]

👀 👀 🤔 🤔

[wheat zealot]

Using sb in m+ with assassination

Big yikes

[daring imp]

^

@_@"

teeming/fort sb is like the first one you'd avoid to pick

[drifting elbow]

121k crit

[wheat zealot]

Garbage

[half mortar]

Should I go with 3x SS then just swapped from outlaw

[wheat zealot]

Yes

[drifting elbow]

for m+, definitely

[half mortar]

Alright sweet thanks

[daring imp]

@keen escarp what the fuck is that dice

[west frost]

Are there any traits where the non-damage part stacks?

I know in general they don't but are there exceptions

[drifting elbow]

i dont recall there to be any traits whose dmg doesnt stack

[sand canyon]

@unreal sundial there u go

https://imgur.com/a/xTzuWpf

[drifting elbow]

by the way, do u feel that heed my call trait is shit or ''competitive dmg''?

[west frost]

I know the damage stacks I'm asking about the utility parts

[wheat zealot]

@west frost Idk if there is any with rogues, but the charges give to bm hunters from primal instincts stacks with the first 2 traits

I like hmc

[west frost]

Interesting

Personally id just be keen for 55 yard foks with the trait

[wheat zealot]

Dream on

[daring imp]

^ did you know jumping makes your FoK range bigger?

[torn hinge]

3x 340 SS or 2x 340 SS + 1x 370 SoB for m+?

[west frost]

I heard that in here but wasn't sure if it was a meme

[daring imp]

sadly it's true

[wheat zealot]

Stuff will probably live long enough this week to make scent worth it

@torn hinge

[torn hinge]

k ty

[wheat zealot]

I wouldnt use it on lower keys

Not enough time to get ruptures out

[unreal bear]

feels fuckin bad man

[west frost]

Oof

[slender smelt]

Ood

Oof

[unreal bear]

big oof

have had a terrible time gearing

[west frost]

That looks like if you tried to lowroll

[drifting elbow]

that raid trinket tho

such a joke

[unreal bear]

yeah it's trash

[west frost]

Buffs when

[unreal bear]

i've been farming for galecaller's and harlan's

no luck

meanwhile my guildmate runs on his rogue alt and bonus rolls it

galecaller's that is

[west frost]

Haha yeah I carried a mate on his druid and he hit it first time

[drifting elbow]

[vast patio]

Oh, is galecaller actually good? Got it last night.

[unreal bear]

used properly, yes.

[drifting elbow]

its very solid

just dont use it while running

[terse viper]

galecaller is a mini hero

[unreal bear]

just know when in the fight you're good to plant yourself

[vast patio]

Seems like a given, eh?

[dapper moat]

how about that fetid tinket nowadays?=

[woven compass]

Basically a rune of power tbh

[pastel crystal]

It sucks if you play with a shit tank

[west frost]

Is it as good if you're not exsang? I was under the impression it didn't quite sim accurately

[strange python]

Is SS bug fixed or still not?

[drifting elbow]

afaik all raid trinkets is trash

[unreal bear]

@west frost should be, increases energy regen

[quartz rune]

@sand canyon not Lucky with trinkets at all

[vast patio]

Dont insult trash like that.

[drifting elbow]

[west frost]

SS is still bugged, yes

[vast patio]

Comparing it to uldir trinkets

R00d

[unreal bear]

if the trinket i got didnt have a gem socket that made it sim slightly over my previous trinket, i wouldnt have even bothered

[oblique pendant]

im using pvp trinkets

cuz not lock with pve

[unique trellis]

damn i leveled and played only outlaw for like 3 moths and the change to assa fells so shitty 😦

[vivid bone]

wat

[west frost]

Hey it ain't as bad as 3 months of outlaw

[late bison]

So for single target we run DD now?

[formal ermine]

Head my call is must have?

[dapper moat]

hmm

my frenetic corpulance trinket 370 sims higher than my harlan 355 both have haste sockets on them? blood mallet says the opposite..

[quartz rune]

Well sims>bloodmallet

[late bison]

But frenetic kinda sucks tho

[frank wyvern]

yeah, sims take in account your stats / gear

[quartz rune]

Was buffed tho

Frenetic that is

[void raft]

Any place to read updates since SS is nerfed ? Haven't played in 6 days. Not sure which spec is on top now

[quartz rune]

Ss is still best for m+ herodamage/bloodmallet for Single target traits

But afterall just sim and see whats best for you and your gear

Pure ST go to for raids atm is 2x DD / 2x SB +1 Uldir trait. MA instead of Subt and TB and not Exsg

[unreal sundial]

@sand canyon holy trinkets

[quartz rune]

Yea muscle is never lucky btw

[frank wyvern]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gkCBTbyUcLNj6oaBpkgTE3

pffff 14k only with 361

guess i need way more haste 😦

[umbral comet]

Nah, you need 2x SB 😃

When you finally get the traits u need its gonna get nerfed anyways

[quartz rune]

I mean they are fairly balanced for rogues now

Kinda

[unreal bear]

by the time they're finished with azerite traits, poisoned wire will be top tier

[quartz rune]

But then u look at boomers and see shrieking stars xD but will they nerf?

[umbral comet]

40% was too much imho

[quartz rune]

Nah tbh its fine

Assa was broken in m+

Literally

Now your still top tier dps in M+ while having great utility

It just made it so u dont use ur best m+ trait for raids aswell

[void raft]

What traits for m+ vs raid ?

[umbral comet]

lol yeah, its so awesome having to pray to the RNG gods for azerite gear in the m+ cache