I BET...
#assassination
civic palm
marble hemlock
better for ST, easier ramp up, no need to gigadot everything
dusk sun
Whats scent of blood again
civic palm
Traits are perfect for reintroducing old mechanics.
marble hemlock
agi per rupture
civic palm
as they are temporary.
dusk sun
Ah right
marble hemlock
yeah, we will come full circle
civic palm
Can even break them more.
grim sail
Anyone know why im simming below 14k ?
marble hemlock
some of the traits we had will become new talents in the next expac
so our old talents will be new talents
civic palm
Shrouded Suffocation can become a Talent in the future.
grim sail
at 361 ilvl
marble hemlock
and they will sell it as "new and exciting" even though we had it years ago
dusk sun
Im simming 13.2k at ilvl 361 :<
civic palm
Along with 2 other Garrote focused Talents.
undone cairn
you're 359 ilvl
grim sail
361
undone cairn
sim says 359
grim sail
Exact same gear except traits on shoulder
civic palm
unlike PBOMB.
marble hemlock
you cant play SS wrong
you can only play it not optimally
its not like the bonus doesnt happen if you do something specific
deft locust
well
marble hemlock
except when you open triple cheapshot on singletarget
deft locust
actually
undone cairn
are you saying you should be 14k?
marble hemlock
but at that point youre either noobe, or all hope is lost
civic palm
I mean atm you can play it wrong due to the bug, but that's w/e not really a thing.
marble hemlock
well, i expect that bug to make it into 8.2
civic palm
If you're not spamming Garrote you're straight up doing it wrong.
If you play Nightstalker.
Wrong.
civic palm
Dropped SS gain itemLevel :3
grim sail
@undone cairn I'm saying i'm seeing lots of rogue simming way 14k at lower ilvls than me without galecallers
dire spoke
garr rup ???wondering??? garr ???oh shit!!!!
marble hemlock
well, gear is a complete mess right now
sim 14k, get 385 azerite piece from weekly, sim 14.8k
grim sail
I just want something to go for 😐
marble hemlock
most of the 15k+ sims have either really good weapons or azerite pieces, or both
undone cairn
might be weapons
marble hemlock
yup
grim sail
Weapons + Galecaller and ill be good?
marble hemlock
do highkeys, get haste/versa veiled crystal, meanwhile friend links you 385 SS helmet
dusk sun
Wtf
marble hemlock
feelsbad
dusk sun
My sim is so bad
strange python
dusk sun
Could anyone tell mw why my sim is so low
grim sail
@dusk sun wtf 2x 370 daggers and galecallers+harlans, traits?
dusk sun
Righttttt
undone cairn
fred im in a raid rn but i'll show you my sims after
marble hemlock
you have quick navigation twice
undone cairn
its similar
civic palm
Will get ~150DPS from it.
grim sail
Thanks sfw, im gonna go to bed. Ill check what u post tomorrow
marble hemlock
nvm
dusk sun
Wtf???
marble hemlock
tooltip bugged out for me
dusk sun
Probably why
marble hemlock
its deadly+quick
civic palm
mmm
dusk sun
Weird why my sim is bad my stats arent shite either
marble hemlock
get 3x370 with a reorigination array, and youre looking at a 15k sim
dusk sun
I havent had any luck lately
civic palm
I need Heroic to be nicer to me - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jSAr9dBvuhdmSYkJYCJBGK
marble hemlock
you need to not be alliance first of all
grim sail
How to get better azerite armor? Luck in raids and pvp?`hahha
strange python
hahah
marble hemlock
get lucky in raids, or get lucky in weekly chest, or get lucky in pvp chest
see the theme?
grim sail
Man that fucking blows
marble hemlock
my alt got 2x385 azerite from the weekly chest, my rogue is still rocking 2x340
after looting shitty haste/versa ring+boots 2weeks in a row
you can grind m+ for most slots, but at some point the only way to get a significant upgrade is by getting lucky in the chests or raid
north leaf
With teeming as an affix this week is CT more viable?
civic palm
More targets more viable sure.
marble hemlock
doesnt really change it, but since you have more mobs to build CP on, its easier to play CT
marble hemlock
not caps, but DR
so once you hit a certain amount of mobs with aoe, the damage per target gets reduced
real socket
is there a way I can sim what my dps would be if my HoA was a higher ilvl?
civic palm
kk
marble hemlock
but some spells arent affected by that
god my typos are getting worse by the minute, i should go to bed
strange python
so for aoe sim you use Smartsim/patchwerk/6bosses/40sec/weekly. (those are all options just to be sure im not missing something) 😄
marble hemlock
nightly
civic palm
heh
strange python
aha
civic palm
Depends on the encounter.
cedar kelp
lets say vectic, occasional cleave
civic palm
and if you are capable of tunneling.
If you can tunnel and stick, you should get ~10% of your SIM, more if cleave is present.
onyx condor
hey what is the rotation coming out of the liqufy on mythic vectis
strange python
btw does it matter on what weapon u put what enchant ? and stronger wep always in main hand?
marble hemlock
stronger wep in mainhand, enchant with the letter that comes first in the alphabet on MH
so usually deadly MH, quick OH
cause D comes before Q
misty remnant
hahhahaa
strange python
nice , il probably come to watch ur stream cuz you already made me a better rouge 😛
undone cairn
seems like i have my wep enchants in the wrong order 🤔
undone cairn
is it a huge difference?
marble hemlock
id like to believe it is
marble hemlock
i mean
it makes sense to me
to have the enchants in alphabetical order from left to right
undone cairn
unless you're trolling me
edgy trellis
just sim it
civic forge
it does not matter which enchant is in which weapon
marble hemlock
it matters to me though 😦
lost sentinel
just ran gear sims, says to change 1 ring or if I want to do 3 dps more I can use swap azerite traits on 2 pieces of gear lol
loud niche
is sin beating sub yet? feels like with all the nerfs im seeing more and more sin rogues
strange python
btw @marble hemlock what is your sim on 6targets/40sec dps?
marble hemlock
misty remnant
damn
marble hemlock
all buffs disabled
misty remnant
that's crazy
marble hemlock
couldnt be arsed to activate the ones we usually have
misty remnant
i give you much respect. damn.
random pollen
marble hemlock
i generally only stream raids or m+
so might stream raid tonight unless im benched, or m+ during the day/after raid
fast nacelle
grim mason
food buffs broken or am I tripping [Swamp Fish 'n Chips] says 55 but when I get the buff it says 70
marble hemlock
😀
deft locust
same for me getty
fast nacelle
you either die young noobe or live long enough to be lost
marble hemlock
dont worry getty, itll be fixed when the expac releases with 8.1
strange python
@marble hemlock so you disabled all buffs potions food reorigination array stacks 0 right?
grim mason
is it just a type error though or ?
dire spoke
tyra 
strange python
ahhh im blind haha
marble hemlock
you usually have 7% ap and a few other things like food, flask etc.
fast nacelle
seli... still playing assa?
strange python
yeah i just want to compare my dps with urs
marble hemlock
ofc
fast nacelle
tried some sub this id
marble hemlock
making assa great again
marble hemlock
all rogue specs are pew right now
fast nacelle
your pulls are big enough
fast nacelle
combat
meh...i legit
think ST
is so gaga
but then
i see logs
and im like
oh well
oh..
well
marble hemlock
speed is playing combat in m+ and is doing really good dps, and he doesnt even have 1 deadshot trait
civic palm
lol
haughty lily
we are supposed to reapply garrote when it expires right? not when its off cd?
fast nacelle
doesnt matter how good you play combat
sub and assa does more (consistent) boss dmg
marble hemlock
dunno
fast nacelle
but then again in fortified weeks
marble hemlock
a lot of bosses have shitty adds you can use for mfd resets
fast nacelle
bosses die quick enough
to die in one roll rotation which can be pre rolled quite often
marble hemlock
the biggest issue for combat is that you have to use your CDs incredibly well
and sometimes you just cant
cause theres only one pull left before a boss, and its a big one
and you gotta blow AR on it
and then youre stuck with 0 CDs when you pull the boss after
solemn shard
Tbh Assassin is just way more chill then Outlaw/Subtlety and it performs equal if not better
marble hemlock
yup
fast nacelle
sub has similar issues with sdances and sectec
marble hemlock
dont really wanna pop another BF charge for mobs that have 20% hp left
fast nacelle
yea
fast nacelle
yes
marble hemlock
which was generally horrible to play around on higher keys
fast nacelle
also not that major than using bf or not
marble hemlock
fast nacelle
its like struggle prio is
outlaw > sub > (assa)
marble hemlock
multitarget APL btw
fast nacelle
for long living adds
marble hemlock
not using triple garrote :/
marble hemlock
and insta applying non-subt garrote after that envenom
fast nacelle
ok i legit do that sometimes aswell.. and then im like: welp afk
safe matrix
you're more than welcome to suggest apl changes to #tc-research
fast nacelle
just cause im dumb
marble hemlock
nah
civic palm
Yeah the out of SUB Garrote is bad.
fast nacelle
i mean they could fix it..
civic palm
But ENV that early might end up being more DMG from FoKKing.
marble hemlock
i think everyone who checks the APL a bit more indepth realizes that making specific conditions for a very specific gear-set, even if its the most commonly played one, is not worth the effort
fast nacelle
there is no way you envenom in sub
civic palm
Not IN, but after.
marble hemlock
its more the fact that SS was simming that high even with the APL being "messy"
vapid flint
I ve never played exsanguinate how does that talent with within the rotation
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
fast nacelle
exsang is quite easy
civic palm
There's some EX specific knowledge in the guide.
final citrus
i'm lucky i got the SS 370 trait from cache last week 😄
fast nacelle
i got 385 chest
with SS
the only reason i played exsang on fetid
else i d go for TB
strange python
rupture>exsanguinate and exsanguinate on cd?
fast nacelle
3 garrotes rupture exsang on focus target
and then fok rup
is what i do.. but i dont care much anyway
it does its job
civic palm
Opener is minorly different on ST than Multi, but it's all very minor.
fast nacelle
if its 3 targets which live lopng enough
civic palm
So long you follow the concept behind SS.
strange python
is exsanguinate better in all situations or not?
fast nacelle
i do garrote 3x rup exsang
vapid flint
Okay
marble hemlock
for raiding it heavily depends on your gear/Traits
strange python
ss fixed?
marble hemlock
for m+ exsang is the way to go for every situation
and no fragments
it got nerfed, but the bug didnt get fixed
🍝
civic palm
Yeah I wonder what the holdup is.
fast nacelle
wondering how much dmg i would have made on fetid without the nerf
strange python
and for what situations Toxic blade is better?
marble hemlock
the holdup is blizz generally not caring about bugs that are being disadvantageous for players
whereas bugs that benefit the players are getting fixed fairly quickly
fast nacelle
tb is rly not better
depending on key difficulty
exang is good in short boss fights
marble hemlock
never play TB in keys
strange python
im asking for raids
marble hemlock
exsang is so much better for m+, its not even in the same league
well
sim it for raids
if you run a few doubledose or TTK traits, TB is very likely to be better
civic palm
Guide has normal commentary for raids, SIM for your traits, should be straight-forward.
marble hemlock
if your 3 best pieces are SS, its very likely that exsang is better
civic palm
Just don't take Sharpened Blades unless you have 3.
marble hemlock
even then
fast nacelle
for raids you need to sim more than just exsang
you need to look at our azerite traits and then check NS Subterfuge Master Assasin and TB Exsang
marble hemlock
it shows high results in the sim-comparison on herodamage
but when you actually sim it on the character, it blows
civic palm
Yeah, SB is functionally poor.
Mostly due to you not being able to just sit there and fucking noBrain everything.
marble hemlock
anyway
civic palm
and hit rates, etc.
marble hemlock
the SS bug is unlikely to get fixed soon imo
strange python
again cloak and wrists from chest and pvp chest
civic palm
Yeah I dunno what the holdup is, free DMG in M+ > _>
marble hemlock
few people know about it, and its not like its existence is providing issues for the people who experience it
safe matrix
tbh I thought the SS nerf would come the same time as a a bug fix for it
marble hemlock
not in the same sense as a broken quest or some class being able to abuse a bug to do more dps
fast nacelle
its funny because if the 4th garrote would also be buffed by SS it would have been fixed in 1 week
marble hemlock
those would be higher priority
civic palm
Yeah, low prio. for sure.
marble hemlock
same as it was high priority to fix people abusing los in DHT to make cats not jump
or fix people being able to have the skovald shield buff up all the time
civic palm
They might not fix SS bug due to the fourth Garrote being too much damage > _>"
fast nacelle
its not
marble hemlock
while they didnt bother fixing 3rd BRH boss even after legion ended
fast nacelle
third boss wasnt buggy - thats just how bosses work
civic palm
How much does a non SUB Garrote tick for?
fast nacelle
resetting third boss is something that works like this for years
marble hemlock
numbers for me were
fast nacelle
and if you forget it and fail its your fault tbh
nothing buggy there
unless you mean the beams without indicator
marble hemlock
2339 non-subt/ss ticks
fast nacelle
which became buggy end of legion
marble hemlock
7870 3xss+subt ticks (pre-nerf)
civic palm
and each SS is ~1k DPS from SUB.
fast nacelle
yeah
marble hemlock
or some other really annoying bugs on other bosses
civic palm
So what like 66% of the lost DMG + NRG > _>"
fast nacelle
trying to fix it prob would have caused more bugs
marble hemlock
well, they figured out how to fix all the bugs that people could use to make fights easier
while the bugs that made things harder were left in the game
fast nacelle
yes
marble hemlock
🤷
civic palm
Just remember how long the beam twirly cunt in NH was bugged.
fast nacelle
as i said - if 4th garrote would have been buffed by SS
we would have seen a fix in 1 week
but now its bugged in a bad way
so its alrighty
aslong as data proofs that assa is strong enough
civic palm
_>
civic palm
yo blizz make yer apls public
marble hemlock
i think its mostly the fact that youd have to dedicate time and resources to fixing the bug
civic palm
Considering everything else going on atm, with the class fixes and traits, SS bug is low prio.
marble hemlock
and its not like the bug is something a lot of people even notice or feel is a disadvantage
strange python
they have mounts to design for the shop
civic palm
inb4 they just fucking remove it > _>
strange python
fuck ss bug
marble hemlock
the people that know about it, know how to avoid it
unkempt phoenix
if the bug isn't making the class subpar they won't invest time into it
they are a business
marble hemlock
the people that dont, probably wont notice
civic palm
8.1 - SS bug could not be fixed, replaced with new Trait
marble hemlock
and as long as the bug isnt leading to the class being shit, or better than everyone else, theres no real reason to put people on it
marble hemlock
didnt take them long to fix ns/dp bug
civic palm
Yeah 2 CN doods.
marble hemlock
think it was around since tomb, didnt really get used until antorus
understandably so, since tomb had 2 garrote set bonuses so everyone was playing subt anyway 😄
civic palm
Yeah.
Similar to how no one could have found the SS bug since SS didn't give the fucking damage to begin with O _O"
marble hemlock
ye 😃
if the bug would give all further garrotes the SS bonus application as long as one of them was running
it wouldve been fixed day2
🍝
fast nacelle
i remember me farming 3 fok traits but it was christmas and we didnt raid
and once we started raiding it was fixed
marble hemlock
i miss PK 😦
fast nacelle
my heart was so broken
marble hemlock
replace bomb with PK
actually
replace TB with KB, and replace bomb with TB, and add "the next envenom after your TB casts a poison bomb on your target"
marble hemlock
itd be so nice tho 😦
fast nacelle
there's a reason why balancing and class design sucks
and we didnt have a new talent row for ages
marble hemlock
cant have nice things
lusty furnace
Do y’all dump combo points for EP uptime consideration?
fast nacelle
they dont know what they are doing
marble hemlock
gotta streamline the game some more
so you can bind the important keys to your controller for the xbox/ps4 release
umbral axle
fast nacelle
max duration
marble hemlock
pandemic
dusk sun
U shouldnt override a subterfuge garrote that isnt below 5 seconds tho
lusty furnace
Do you envenom with less than 4 combo points to keep elaborate planning active ever?
marble hemlock
i do it during exsang
when its a vendetta+vanish exsang
but usually exsang gives enough energy to be able to use 4+ envenoms anyway
lusty furnace
I’m not running exsang, maybe that’s my first problem.
fast nacelle
depends on your traits
umbral prairie
what bug does SS currently have?
daring imp
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
real socket
where can I find the item ID for like a 365 HoA
so I can sim what my dps would be if I had a 365 hoa
fast nacelle
dh is so much fun jeez
edgy trellis
does GGG vanish GGG work ?
strange python
yes
sage sigil
in M+ when should i use exang on pack pulls ?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
slate dust
!wa
glass sphinx
is the bug where u cast a 3 sub garrotes and then a 4th no buffed one, it fuckks the other 3 still happening
civic palm
Yes.
glass sphinx
rip
solid mural
I hope someone could help me out with this. So for mythincs+ should I be stating for single or multi target?
barren hound
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dull garden
misty light
its pretty interchangeable with the archive
you want 1 archive or laser and then other things
civic palm
late niche
i like assassination
misty remnant
https://www.wowhead.com/item=159302/cowl-of-fluid-machinations&bonus=4817:1482
does this drop in mythic +?
civic palm
Archive and Matrix are dead-even regards of stacks of anything, use the piece that has the weakest spec/generic trait.
misty remnant
how do i see people have it in 370 gear
civic palm
Azerite Armor doesn't drop in M+
late niche
i gotit from cache
civic palm
370 is from M+ and Raids.
misty remnant
i see so i'm guessing in weekly chest
civic palm
Correcto.
misty remnant
its random right?
civic palm
Yes.
misty remnant
i see thank you
vapid oracle
yall still playing triple SS in M+?
civic palm
SS is the M+ trait yes.
final citrus
sub isn't clunky
stone quartz
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
cloud spindle
For Zek'Voz when the adds come out, is it worth garrote/rupture still? Or just spam fan + keep CT up
flint swift
depends on how fast the adds die.
if you seriously outgear the content then no, but if garrote/rupture can reach a significant % of their total duration then yes
cloud spindle
Ah so in Mythic if they live for awhile, just Fan for CP, keep CT up and garrote/rupture as many adds as I can
tulip willow
is TB run atm or na
civic palm
tulip willow
ty
slate dust
feel like outlaw doesnt have to work as hard for m+
flint swift
yeah the new blade flurry mechanic is amazing
mortal chasm
flint swift
and yes @cloud spindle assuming the adds don't die before garrote/rupture can outdamage envenom spam or however else you would be spending your CP
the formulas for all those abilities are available on wowhead
silent egret
So im trying out assasination aoe o nthe 4 dummies. I open with vendetta -> 4 garrotes from subterfuge -> rupture first target, and then i just garrote every target and keep fanning to apply ruptures to each, that sound about right?
flint swift
depends on your traits @silent egret
flint swift
if you have multiple SS traits then your opener is different
lime panther
whats opener w TB vs EXE
silent egret
or instead of dagger in the back i could pick up fan of blades
SS = Swirling sands?
flint swift
keep in mind that vendetta is a debuff on the target rather than a buff to the player, so it isn't bound by snapshotting.
no ss = shrouded suffocation
silent egret
ah
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
tulip willow
its it updated
flint swift
the opener logic is the same even after the nerf to SS
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
civic palm
Keep this in mind.
slate dust
sin out dpsing same ilevel outlaw?
flint swift
depends on the content
slate dust
single target
compact socket
How good is archive or matrix trait in M+?
flint swift
yes, currently
slate dust
guess with lucky rolls on outlaw you could win
trying to work out if sin is for my in m+
definitely nicer in pvp
but running so many sets of gear bleh
flint swift
right now sub is simming highest for single target at 385, outlaw is about 1k behind, and sin is <100 behind outlaw
sorry outlaw is about 650 behind, not 1k
but keep in mind that those numbers aren't based on reality. as soon as 1 add gets thrown into the mix, everything changes
and like every single uldir fight has adds
so...
tranquil dust
anyone know
what the ideal trait setup is?
im currently running 2x archive and 1 ss atm
tulip willow
^^^^^^^
ornate gazelle
How would you open with the new Mantle talent and no Shrouded Suffocation traits?
exotic fractal
What traits do you guys look for for M+? sob?
night cypress
ss
exotic fractal
even after the nerf?
night cypress
still great for cleave
raw torrent
I still run one SS mainly for the combo point bonus to smooth out openers and vanishes
raw torrent
doing SS, double dose, laser for raids. not sure if you would want to switch out laser in m+ tho
sharpened blades prolly best for M+ tbh
surreal rivet
raw torrent
maybe switching ss out for raids would be good
surreal rivet
raid build sims 15.5
surreal rivet
i got mine from war front
night cypress
isn't 1x dagger shit?
raw torrent
yeah i cant find an sb either feelsbadman
surreal rivet
is twist the knife better then dagger?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r5yPepGvSLGLZdDqNhxFYW is my raid build
edgy monolith
surreal rivet
prob only gonna play sub only if i absolutely have to
stone quartz
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
sick monolith
i grind shrines all fucking day and havent gotten a damn galecallers
unreal coyote
Same
flint swift
i got a tradeable one but my buddy didn't loot the chest, got it in the mail, and the mail system makes it untradeable regardless of whether you're eligible for the loot
so, you know... i sent in feedback about that
unreal coyote
Shitlord Hunter always loots them in my groups
Puggibg high keys is so painful this week too
Pugging
flint swift
this week is pure aids. i did an underrot 10 with my guild and we didn't even make the timer. they really need to work on how they place teeming adds.
flint swift
LOL
lilac coral
is there some bug where i can't tricks my tank
unreal coyote
There's an item
supple hearth
neural silencer
unreal coyote
I would
supple hearth
is he using it
lilac coral
YES
supple hearth
you're welcome
lilac coral
thank you
flint swift
that's crazy dude
unreal coyote
But I was playing at work and just wanted my 10
flint swift
is that from a pug?
unreal coyote
Yes
flint swift
ah ok
unreal coyote
Pure pug
unreal coyote
It was rough
The tank was horrendous
I think we were in there
An hour and 52min
jaunty arrow
Not bad 
unreal coyote
I wanted to die
flint swift
tbf a truly horrendous tank would have left
jaunty arrow
U can just log in and jump from smth
flint swift
but yeah i hear ya
flint swift
that's better than most pugs
unreal coyote
Yeah
jaunty arrow
I dont know i was ad 11 and it was pain even with guild group
somber moon
does raidbots sim sharpened blades properly?
somber moon
hmm why did I lose dps from tidal surge then
flint swift
yeah like i said, they really have to work on how they're approaching teeming because damn
safe matrix
it casts at 29 stacks
fathom echo
i simmed 2 x SB 1 x DD vs 3 x DD and DD is still stronger do i need 3 SB for it to sim higher
safe matrix
SB gets stronger the more stacks of it you have
jaunty arrow
I cant wait for next nerf
flint swift
what talents are you running noiz?
oh sorry not noiz
dream
what talents are you running?
fathom echo
EP, SF, Vigor, TB, PB
modern crescent
same as me
flint swift
if DD is nature damage then that may explain why your sims are saying something different, given that you're running TB
brave gyro
Have you guys tried MA for M+ this week? If I go full mastery, do you think it's worth?
modern crescent
isnt mastery siming higher on aoe anyways?
restive inlet
MA sims higher for me Single target. Played it in raid yesterday, fun af
brave gyro
I know it sims higher, I'm just asking if anyone has tried it for M+ (when it sims lower for ST)
daring imp
not sure i'd do that using 3x SS for m+
brave gyro
Why not? What does elaborate planning provide for 3xSS ?
proven ice
daring imp
safe matrix
it depends on the fight, how well your gear is optimized, etc
they're all good/viable right now
atomic karma
ye but if im trying to optimise for 1 spec
what is the most optimised
if im bis everything
and the best player at every class
for m+ atleast
high keys
daring imp
i don't have optimized gear for all specs
if you have, test it out and bring feedback please
atomic karma
listen bro
daring imp
i barely even have enough for assassination
daring imp
that's what i'm trying to tell you, one thing is to test out on a somewhat controlled environment that is raiding
another entire thing is doing m+
surely depends a lot on the comp of your group
slender smelt
Sin is great on high keys since it doesn't really drop dps over time that bad
And the silence and damage reduction on garrote is very useful
rigid imp
sup guys, a kick question that you may be sick of but i just want to make sure, theres no need to pool for TB?
daring imp
you can setup the pooling before tb comes off cd, so you don't delay it
just try not to let your bleeds fall
lone junco
@daring imp funny part about the warglaives.
you can enchant them with warsong
I saw an outlaw cleave M+ guy in prepatch.
daring imp
warsong is that old haste one?
lone junco
yeah. double 500 haste
lone junco
or something
slender smelt
Um so guys im on a trip overseas and can't check out the azerite changes really that much. Hows the experimenting going so far?
zealous summit
I'm simming higher with TB than Exang, is tb better because of the SS nerfs?
slender smelt
SS ded?
ornate gazelle
sin guides don't say how to open using master assassin, anyone know the best opener without ss traits?
daring imp
@rigid imp i try to keep atleast envenom buff during its entire duration, not much i know but it is quite hard to do 2/3x envenoms during it with low crit, even pooling beforehand
lone junco
@ornate gazelle just run your sim and read the apl
garrote mut rupture vendetta mut vanish tb env mut env or something
rigid imp
Brilliant, thanks again c:
daring imp
@slender smelt 3x SS still good for m+, but for raiding you might wanna consider other higher ilvl azerite pieces since it's definitely not always best now after the nerf
daring imp
yea i've been raiding with those
slender smelt
Scent of Blood was it
daring imp
oh, no, sb being sharpened blades
slender smelt
Oh
daring imp
don't have a single decent scent of blood
vagrant tapir
slender smelt
So 3 SB for a thicc shiv or sth
formal quartz
Quick question, do you guys 2 stack haste wep enhance? Or Crit/Haste?
lone junco
need high crit and 8tab ruptures
daring imp
i probably won't use 3x sb, i'll stick to 2x sb and 1x reorigination array
i don't have 3x sb tho, only 2
slender smelt
OH right those got sick
daring imp
@formal quartz haste/crit
slender smelt
So aiming for 3 Uldir traits is now a thing huh
formal quartz
What % of haste do we seek for ? Currently at 16%
daring imp
well atleast one you should have for the crescent secondary buff 😛
brave gyro
i meant master poisoner earlier @daring imp My mistake, apologies.
Basically, have you guys picked MP for M+ this week.
daring imp
@brave gyro oh, in that case, i hardly pick it, most of my damage comes from bleeds anyway ( garrote/ct/rupture ), specially on m+, so little to no point in running mp
slender smelt
Not really cause we deal like 40% of our damage /w garrote in M+ and MP doesn't do anything to that
daring imp
which traits you have, fixxed?
leaden niche
1 uldir, 2 crap ones
daring imp
which crap ones
leaden niche
rezans and the envenom one
slender smelt
So you don't do SS openings that explains it
strange python
yo so I cant find my question anymore
daring imp
do you have any SS to test out if subterfuge overtakes it?
leaden niche
i do have ss but veryyyy low ilvl
daring imp
@leaden niche in that case that might be why @_@
slender smelt
And why da fuk blizz not patching this ridiculous bug?
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
daring imp
the phrase "it's not a bug, it's a feature" comes to mind
silk carbon
maybe they will nerf it another 40% so people stop using it then
then they dont have to fix it
slender smelt
I mean should we be scared of using our skill on cooldown, because IT ACTUALLY DECREASES THE DPS
strange python
so by then I guess its either the 50% crit
daring imp
don't give marvelous ION ideas
strange python
or faster move +50% incr
leaden niche
@daring imp 370x2 385 vs 3x 340
slender smelt
Crazy crazy shit
daring imp
@leaden niche SS likely makes subterfuge better than the other options, assuming same ilvl pieces
raw torrent
no way, so tagging a diff mob with garrote makes a ss garrote lose the damage buff?
on a completely separate mob?
proper igloo
we arent supposed to cast any unbuffed garottes?
silk carbon
yea
daring imp
but you sim such a small difference between those two tho
raw torrent
blizzard pls
leaden niche
aye subterfuge will still be best on cleave too
silk carbon
not until the empowered runs out
daring imp
@proper igloo only when there's a buffed one rolling out
strange python
as sin, I am 1 - 2 - 1 -2 -3 -2 -1
proper igloo
ok
daring imp
AND having SS traits
slender smelt
And they nerfed sin because reasons. As if they even played the spec before nerfing it
daring imp
if no SS traits just go ham
strange python
is that aite to roll with reckon
proper igloo
i have 3 still
daring imp
SS deserved a nerf, maybe not that big but still
proper igloo
does bliz know about the bug?
raw torrent
im keeping one, guaranteed bloodmallet sims arent accounting for the combo point generation
leaden niche
i played sub for raid last night @slender smelt and honestly, it feels worse than sin right now
daring imp
i wish i could get high crit back again
slender smelt
Uh doesn't really meant SS didn't need nerf. I know it but
The fact that blizz nerfed the trait without fixing an obvious bug
It means they don't even test the subject they just look at the charts
And buff/nerf shit
I mean are they just nerfing things by looking at the top of the lists from sites like bloodmallet
fiery haven
so since when has garrote been usable outside of stealth
safe matrix
since a while
silk carbon
20% wouldve been reasonable
slender smelt
Yeah SS was broken but what about6 the ss bug?
safe matrix
it wasnt really broken for ST, MT/m+ is where it was actually busted
slender smelt
Could they NOT notice the apparent bug before nerfing shit?
void otter
guys, I'm running triple archive traits atm and have a beastly 390 Lustrous Golden Plumage trinket (the one with the versa on use effect) - I'm really stuck tbh as I don't know when to properly use it..and which rotation to use..the one in the ravenholdt guide is very meh and doesn't produce any decent burst..is this due to the way the trait functions and therefore expected outside of uldir or am I missing something? halp
dense fern
so i just got a 370 Sharpened blades azerite trait from the warfront thing
thorn crater
@slender smelt ive come to believe its intended since it works both ways. if u use a non emp gar for some reason and after vanish and spam gar on targets the non emp one gets amped up as well
thorn crater
also double archives at 355-370 work better for me than other traits prolly cause of agi
no
slender smelt
Then what does the tooltip tells us, lies?
daring imp
@fiery haven a long, long time ago @_@'
thorn crater
how would you phrase it in a single sentence?
random skiff
thorn crater
MA non SS/sub is also fine
daring imp
@void otter i'd macro it with vendetta, if i'm not wrong they've both 2min?
void otter
yes but can you macro them though? thought everything was on global cd now
thorn crater
vendetta less
leaden niche
@void otter trinket wont be, but vd is
slender smelt
Wait does non emp gar gets empowered when an emp gar is used?
silk carbon
According to raidbots now equipping the 355 chest from azeroth champions with the champion of azeroth trait is a 1.6% dps increase
daring imp
@dense fern only 1 i'd say no, 2 probably would tho
leaden niche
yes
daring imp
depends on yoru other azerite parts
silk carbon
i have 3x ss
thorn crater
bah topping zul hc with warrs hunts and locks in the fight with non zerg strat as rogue and noone was logging
gotta love pugs
silk carbon
I should swap chest for raid but keep 3x ss for m+?
thorn crater
daring imp
given 3x ss is still great for m+ environment, well, yeah?
slender smelt
At this point I think we just need more competant spec-specific traits
safe matrix
Well I didnt know that SS was retroactive
updated the pins to reflect that
"If you apply a Shrouded Suffocation buffed garrote, ALL your active garrotes gain the SS bonus aswell."
void otter
vendetta macro with plumage doesn't work
strange python
Where should I use galecalers trinket in my opening rotation with exsang. I use 2x SS
lone junco
Wait wait. Wait. 4p 20. Garrote garrote garrote garrote vanish garrote? They all gain SS?
Would only take 2p. But that's still funny.
I was pulling 18-20k with 4p20 and 2ss
Pre nerf. But that was just the ggg
void otter
what's 4p20?
lone junco
Old tier.
void otter
ah
lone junco
Buffs garrote and 0cd.
limber dew
so looking at herodamage exang is not the way forward anymore?
void otter
what's the opener with 1xSS?
honest needle
vso i have archive helm, laser matrix chest, and sims say my 340 dd shoulders are better but the ss trait is simming only 4 fps difference. Should i just use ss then if its only 4 fps difference ?
since ss rotation feels better
lone junco
4dps is nothing. .1% is nothing.
lone junco
Play what has better boss timings. Or you perform better with.
honest needle
so what would u guys use ss trait for chest or dd
vestal abyss
`What?
dense fern
that 385 worldboss trinket is disgusting
but also probably worse than my 370 galecallers if i had to guess lol
alpine oracle
Meh, are you guys using sharpened blades build?
alpine oracle
I've got 2sb plus archive of titans (no Laser yet)... but i'm not sureif it's that good
EP?
daring imp
archive is fine too but i could only drop laser so far
elaborate planning
moar dmg on knife, no?
daring imp
no no
you use something before popping knife
to have ep up
or just use something at ~25 stacks so on 28+ you'll still have ep up
daring imp
which traits are those
?
fml if only raidbots had the active traits there too
so we wouldn't need to ask everytime
Ç_Ç
honest needle
@dense fern ya 385 is good, but galecallers only works for like 2-3 bosses only
tribal lark
2x archive and 1 some shitty
daring imp
nice
honest needle
I have 3 sb traits and sb is not even simming high for me. My archive laser matrix and dd is simming higher
daring imp
probably ilvl issues
there's no clear winner given you ahve a higher piece around
2sb 1ss sim higher for me, tho idon't have a 3rd one
atomic hamlet
do we still double garrote in the opener ? Like Garrote Rupt Garrote ?
*without SS
daring imp
unlikely
honest needle
if i only have 1 ss trait im using do i use garrote rupture garrote for opener ?
dim sentinel
atomic hamlet
okay i will do the math and than some dummy testing
honest needle
does any 1 kno
vestal abyss
What are you guys talking about 385 trinket, the world boss dropped 355 gear fo rme
misty remnant
where did u get that from
soft steppe
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lilac coral
eyyy DD chest out of the warfront
vestal abyss
We've reached consensus that Sharpened Blades is best in slot for single target. Can someone make a react out of this
civic palm
Yeah who is we?
vestal abyss
Me and my team of simmers
vestal abyss
But it sims the highest
vestal abyss
It is a ranged spell, how does the fight matter
vestal abyss
Depeonds on item lvl
civic palm
Because you have to build the stacks and to do that, hit the target.
vestal abyss
at 385 SB is better
cloud iron
You only really need one
civic palm
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM
I mean you can make up fictional scenarios all you want, it's not good.
civic palm
You need three of them for it to compete;
and you will always have 1 non-SB because Array is too strong.
vivid bone
^
lilac coral
gonna be real great for DPS letting your bleeds fall off for a meme dagger throw
vivid bone
Mizerok in tha house
cloud iron
The.... the dagger applies bleeds
vivid bone
civic palm
What applies bleeds?
lilac coral
it applies poison
vivid bone
then don't let your bleeds fall off Supra
cloud iron
That’s the meme
vestal abyss
It doesnt
civic palm
No shit.
cloud iron
But tbh, one gcd makes your bleeds fall off or have shit timing, your playing so bad it doesn’t matter what traits you got
lilac coral
it's a joke
vivid bone
you're a joke
honest needle
so what would u guys do use dd or use ss if it was only a 4 dps difference. do u guys like ss rotation better or default rotation ?
lilac coral
and in the middle of a fight anything can happen
cloud iron
I mean I was joking
thin oriole
SB is joke. Stop telling that it would be bis
civic palm
Don't make jokes spreading misinformation.
vivid bone
we're all joking
civic palm
I will work on getting you muted and/or banned for spreading bullshit like this.
cloud iron
Wow, you must be great at parties
civic palm
Only if someone shits on my mother.
thin oriole
who the fuck cares about parties
sand granite
WTF NO CHATTING IN A CHAT ROOM
civic palm
There's enough crap going on here after a "large" change that people are already willing to believe near anything.
vivid bone
chatting is fine, no misinformation though
civic palm
Don't need them going or coming with some bad information.
cloud iron
I mean, if something is simming good, and it’s doing well on logs
How is that bad imformation
civic palm
Is it doing well on Logs for SIN?
vestal abyss
Okay until i find my sim i stand corrected.
Remember my words though:
Given 3, 385 Azerite pieces 3x SB will outperform 2xSB + Laser matrix + 10
cloud iron
Last I checked it was doing just fine this week
civic palm
2xSB is shit... no kidding.
honest needle
so what would u guys do use dd or use ss if it was only a 4 dps difference. do u guys like ss rotation better or default rotation ?\
thin oriole
Spellar there is no reasoning behind that
green saffron
Hi, I have 355 shoulder with Archive of Titan trait, 340 shoulder SS and 340 shoulder Sharpened Blades, but I don't know which one would be better for M+?
civic palm
If you wanna postulate a change in the APL and SIMc go post it in #tc-research @vestal abyss
For M+ SS is almost always better.
vestal abyss
@thin oriole what do you mean, it just sims higher
@civic palm The APL is fine as is
honest needle
@civic palm i have archive and laser matrix rtraits as well, but for m+ 3 x ss still sims highest
civic palm
@vestal abyss m'okay
@honest needle Yeah I said SS is better in M+ > _>
@vestal abyss SIM 3xSB against light movement for more actionable results, if it's still BiS there then great, but I doubt it.
honest needle
Im just curious what rotation u guys like better default or ss rotation
civic palm
The one that deals more damage.
vestal abyss
Garrote
Mutilate till 4 combo points
Rupture
Vendetta
Mutilate
Toxic Blade
Mutilate if less than 4 combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Vanish when Garrote hits 5.4 seconds or less when talented into subterfuge
honest needle
@civic palm its only 4 fps difference between ss and dd for me for my shoulder slot
vivid bone
It's decent
civic palm
It's GOOD IN M+ LIKE A SAID
vivid bone
yeah
honest needle
but for a 4 fps difference shouldnt i go ss since it makes rotation smoother