and sometimes there arent
#assassination
marble hemlock
keen spruce
SS opener:
Garrote
Rupture
Garrote
Vendetta
Mutilate
Rupture
Exsanguinate when talented
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Vanish when Garrote runs out
Garrote twice
pallid bluff
only by like 100 dps but still silly
tropic hull
deck suck in aoe
marble hemlock
went into atal 15, 3 golems on the left side. went in again on 14, those golems were jsut not there at all
seems like some teeming mobs sometimes just dont spawn
keen spruce
I didn't realize teeming was variable
severe raven
how come in raid nobody is using archive? they still rolling 3 SS?
pallid bluff
^ saw the same shit in temple
keen spruce
I thought that it was always the same extra mobs
pallid bluff
the first pack with the three big guys
royal lantern
method had no rogues on ghuun kill
pallid bluff
wasnt there on some keys
royal lantern
i called it, ded class, gonna reroll dh now /s
strange python
@keen spruce ty
tropic hull
affl lock you mean
pulsar bluff
still parks 99+ every boss tonight with archivex2 / SS, it's jsut details,
royal lantern
some are so random lol
tropic hull
that pack after first boss in king rest
royal lantern
the 1pack in underoot before the 1st boss
keen spruce
Like the fucking tentacles in shrine
pallid bluff
some of the packs are just insanely more diffilcult
tropic hull
and after second
royal lantern
1mask, 2 priest, 2 headhunter, 2 matrons
solid field
What was the makeup of methods ghuuns kill
keen spruce
that room right before the long ramp leading to 3d boss
steel orbit
What does hero damage mean when it says archives x10
keen spruce
and the all the tentacles pop up
royal lantern
how the fuck do you kill them when you cant skip
pallid bluff
the pack before the elemental in shrine is actually messed up this week
thick jacinth
10x reorigination buff
basically 10 weeks
of raiding
and killing 3 bosses
you should be at 3 stacks now.
strange python
so i guess archieve of titans is not good for m+ what do u guys use for m+ as assa? u go with crimson tempest instead of poison bomb=?
steel orbit
Only got it this week so does it back track?
tropic hull
ss and ct
strange python
scent of blood?
thick jacinth
that one
strange python
so u just spam ruptures ?
thick jacinth
crimson tempest for fortified weeks, poison bomb for tyrannical.
pallid bluff
really any combination of the two is fine if you have at least 1 SS
strange python
3ruptures and spam ct i guess?
short token
wow assass in raid is dead i'm down 5k dps easy on mythic mother and taloc
thick jacinth
yes
steel orbit
With the buffs does it backtrack? Like I only got the loot this week
strange python
aha cool
strange python
i did mythic taloc had like 8-9k before i died in logs says i did 4,7k
xD
on my dps meter showed 8-9k
strange python
i died like on 5%
thick jacinth
?
opaque junco
not you
thick jacinth
right
opaque junco
dying on 5% is not gonna half your dps 
short token
outlaw is just fucking destroying me now
thick jacinth
h-how
short token
easy, i'm doing nothing different
thick jacinth
sim with 3-4 targets
short token
mythic mother and taloc
thick jacinth
and look
delicate gull
tbf theres a lot of outlaw parses showing up, they just scaling good with the changes i guess
sharp schooner
what kind of duration are you doing where sob is beating ss
short token
@thick jacinth i realize you had a good parse, but it's obvious outlaw is ahead of assass atm
delicate gull
there needs to be a raidbots premium where i can say "sim literally everything in every spec"
thick jacinth
outlaw isn't practical on most encounters tbh
short token
lol
pallid bluff
if outlaw is consistently ahead of you as sin then your doing something wrong. 90% of all top parses are either ass or sub
strange python
@thick jacinth secondary trait for m+? heed my call or ow. power?
pallid bluff
on taloc at least
marble hemlock
heed is best
thick jacinth
I haven't done much for sims but I think heed
pulsar bluff
outlaw sparks only when they got the good dice rolls, kappa 8)
pallid bluff
ofc outlaw can RNG their way to the top but sin is WAY more consistent
strange python
aha ty
pallid bluff
^
thick jacinth
but for mythic raiding
tropic hull
just roll 5 buffs LUL
thick jacinth
consistency and reliability is what you want
hence assassination being valued so high
spiral cloud
You think assa will still be the go to spec for m+? I mean last week nearly all high keys were played by assa rogues,
thick jacinth
very little dps loss for mechanics, good cooldowns, consistent.
delicate gull
nah consistency and reliability is what you need, 5 buff outlaw rolls is what we want
pallid bluff
i think all three specs are equally as viable in M+ for 10-15s
they just shine in different areas
thick jacinth
the higher you go in m+ the stronger assassination is tbh.
royal widget
I was looking at hero dmg website on assassination azerite stack ss trait drop so low why ?
marble hemlock
yup, all 3 specs are really damn good right now for highkeys
sub kinda needs a comp that doesnt burst aoe as much tho
pallid bluff
yup as we get to 20s and stuff where shit lives forever than ass will be better
marble hemlock
combat has really good utility tho, low CD BtE and gouge help a lot with infested
pallid bluff
yeah gouge is the main think i missed when i switched
thick jacinth
infested is barely a mechanic tbh
tropic hull
and 8m range
marble hemlock
and obviously mfd is pretty great
pallid bluff
that shit is so nice
thick jacinth
honestly so little mobs actually have infested
marble hemlock
depends on how you play infested tho
thick jacinth
you just sap and kill everything else
marble hemlock
since you usually cc them out and clean up after, you dont get that much value out of mfd as combat
pallid bluff
you just sap three infested then pull them together after killing the rest of the packs
thick jacinth
or you just pull everything, save an aoe stun for the spawns
strange python
@thick jacinth agree infested is ez
thick jacinth
infested is just annoying more than difficult to deal with tbh.
pallid bluff
yeah
strange python
btw how is tol dagor 10 atm with this quaking shit?
marble hemlock
they didnt want a huge difficult spike from 9 to 10
royal lantern
wtf is underoot with teeming lol
spiral cloud
Thanks for the answer guys, cant decide if i wanna do assa or sub in m+, guess ill switch to whatever is better with the rest of the comb
pallid bluff
teeming is the real affix this week
royal lantern
after the 1boss you have so much trash, its ridicolous, all packs have 8-10 mobs
marble hemlock
whether you have trashmobs that arent supposed to be there or not is the real affix
pallid bluff
blizz changed it from being nonexistent to the hardest one yet
strange python
cool then il go to do td
vapid estuary
rip shrouded suffocation, that fell pretty hard
I don't like sharpened blades though 😐
strange python
i hate sharpened baldes
vapid estuary
I'm not a rogue main, just used to going off sims, what would you suggest then outside of raid? Like double dose and stuff?
thick jacinth
for m+ probably 1 SS 2x scent of blood
vapid estuary
I mean I just don't like the mechanics of sharpened blades either way so
thick jacinth
if you're in the raid you don't use sharpened blades anyway
effectively it's useless
thick jacinth
you want archives/laser in raid
whatever you can get your hands on
archive sims higher eventually
slate dust
😮 i just looked at my pieces for m+ on my rogue and i have 2x scent and 1 x ss
vapid estuary
scent of blood is really low on the simmed list hmm
thick jacinth
multiple targets
pallid bluff
i'm still not convinced SoB is gonna be that great
marble hemlock
scent is really only worth when mobs are living 30-40sec or longer
and when youre pulling big
like 6+ mobs every time
pallid bluff
shit just doesnt live longenough right now
marble hemlock
otherwise just go 3xSS
thick jacinth
you'll find a lot of value in m+ from scent of blood on 3 targets
vapid estuary
I just want to know what to farm in m0 in general since I'm not super high ilvl still
marble hemlock
im hoping for scent to eventually be better
vapid estuary
for traits
marble hemlock
cause i dislike the SS gameplay
pallid bluff
i think that SS will still be better in most cases
marble hemlock
but right now 3xSS is still very very good
vapid estuary
I'll probably only do alt heroic runs at most so, m+ and normal/heroic
thick jacinth
im so distracted by this chat haha I have so much work to do
vapid estuary
glad I didn't go off sims
forest wharf
How much ilvl is acceptable to drop for the "bis" Trinkets? For example, is it worth it to drop 365 Azerokk or 370 Construct for a 340 Galecaller's? Want to know before I bother farming it
thick jacinth
sim yourself
forest wharf
How do you sim a trinket you don't have?
thick jacinth
azerokk sucks a bag of dicks though
slate dust
people using bomb or ct for m+?
marble hemlock
CT
thick jacinth
gear compare on raidbots
slate dust
before i sim it
pallid bluff
CT for Fort bomb for tyran in most cases
thick jacinth
lets you select items and set ilvls
pulsar bluff
depending the run
marble hemlock
you really only wanna play bomb in tyra temple
pulsar bluff
you wont use CT for a kings rest
pallid bluff
i like bomb more than CT in kings rest though
pallid bluff
it really depends on key TBH
vapid estuary
So looking like the trait sims aren't as accurate for real world scenarios, I got the 370 world boss chest on my rogue, is stand as one or poisoned wire viable at all?
marble hemlock
not just key
depends on how big you pull, how much crit you have, what keylevel etc.
pallid bluff
i mean that factors into key
thick jacinth
you can sim azerite traits
marble hemlock
CT is good when you can utilize it well without starving energy or losing uptime
marble hemlock
so if your tank is only pulling 2-3 mobs at a time, or youre only sitting at 18% crit or smth
then youre probably not gonna be able to generate enough CP to keep energy flowing while maintaining CT
pulsar bluff
there is no "magical" build, optimisation, everyone have to use tools, knowledge and experience, we have to adapt very often
marble hemlock
also depends a lot on how well you play
so if youre playing CT and notice youre having trouble maintaining it or weaving it into your aoe rotation, then switch to PB instead
feral cargo
archive of the titansx3 is good or not?
feral cargo
yeah but still not sure how i stack it up.. is that full random?
barren sleet
Is it good outside of the raid though
feral cargo
o didnt know that
pulsar bluff
just click on the traits you want to compare !
for me its like 2 archive and 1 SS? maybe it wont be the best for someone else, but for my, with all my gear setup, it's the best
sim is the way guys
pulsar bluff
np
brisk flicker
Any sin rogues here using Afenar's WA?
quick sedge
@small cargo no
tropic hull
bug still there
pulsar bluff
Blizzard is an indies companie, get compassion (sorry for my english )
thick jacinth
according to hectic ad sims
scent of blood is above archive
with no reorigination buff
but not by much
so m+ is yeah 1SS 2x scent or 1 SS 2x archive
pulsar bluff
then if the difference is not huge, go for the best you like
thick jacinth
SS is dog shit that's why lol
pulsar bluff
i go for 2 archive and 1 SS, cause it sim same like 3 archiv"e for me, i just prefer the one SS opener
quick sedge
it's not though?
pulsar bluff
so i go for it
tropic hull
3 target 40 sec = lose dps St=lose dps
thick jacinth
deft locust
dang
pallid bluff
yeah that doesnt account for restealths
thick jacinth
thats why
pallid bluff
and sims are notoriously wrong
quick sedge
if only those sims weren't 5 mins long 🤔
thick jacinth
you want 1
deft locust
they even stated that
thick jacinth
ive literally said this whole time
deft locust
when they put it up in TC updates
thick jacinth
you want 1 SS
forest wharf
What's your chosen WA for dot snapshotting?
tropic hull
before the nerf this list says SS not good for AOE
pallid bluff
yeah your just wrong about it if you are going off of that sim list
deft locust
ye, it isn't accounting for the actual SS damage w/ 3
pallid bluff
its actually really good still
deft locust
ironically, SOB is actually fairly good if you don't go CT
but hard to pull off if you plan to CT spam
pallid bluff
and not going CT seems wrong alot
tropic hull
sim in raidbot 3 target 40 sec and you see
pallid bluff
pretty much
tropic hull
or 5 40sec what ever
quick sedge
Only real rogues use HB
deft locust
hahaha
I love HB, I wish it gained like
2 stacks off a kill
or something
to make it a bit more viable for m+
pulsar bluff
HB is for ?
deft locust
Hidden blades
pulsar bluff
ty
tropic hull
in bg
coral cosmos
Hey y'all, sorry to ask, but I have been going through the pinneds and am not able to find the answer...
(all 355 ilvl, but Doom's Wake @ 375) I have 4 trinkets available:
Fathoms Deck, Frenetic Corpuscle, Plume of the Seaborn Avian(socket), and Doom's Wake.
I am trying to figure out which combination is best for me. I have been sticking with the fathoms + frenetic combo (mostly due to the agi default), but wondering if I am missing out with the other two?
deft locust
I have a 370 fob and two 355's, triple fob and ct is fun as heck
it's better than SS by a lot if your tank hates you
and chain pulls
pallid bluff
yeah i make my tank wait
deft locust
aka
keen spruce
Fathoms will almost always make the list
deft locust
don't roll with shitface tanks
pallid bluff
if im dropping 30 ilvls on two pieces for SS im goddamn restealthing
strange python
@coral cosmos I would sim myself. Just set up gear and choose trinkets amd scale them to the ilvl you have them.
keen spruce
@coral cosmos most likely Fathoms, but best to sim all the combonatoins
thick jacinth
yikes
deft locust
literally yelling at my tank telling him he's making us go slower when he pulls 1 mob right before combat drops
keen spruce
Just vanish 
pallid bluff
it took all of the first week to convince them that its ACTUALLY a dps gain* to go slower and out SPriests voidform doesnt matter
keen spruce
Vanish from the instance
pulsar bluff
here come the night elfe racial, it's like a second vanish in trash mob fights.. 8)
celest mirage
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
@thick jacinth is raidbots trustable for trait stacking cuz it just chose SS over archive of titans ,and gutripper vs ov.power?
undone cairn
For mythrax do you guys just rupture all the adds?
civic palm
haha adds > _>
thick jacinth
depends entirely on what you're simming for
strange python
For mythrax rogues gets benched.
@thick jacinth i already have SS on helm so its 2x SS total and it chose gutripper vs ov.power im just looking my top gear all other is default options
pallid bluff
i have to come on my mage for mythrax for my group cause we ahve too many melee
thick jacinth
i didn't think ovpower was all that good for us tbh
strange python
ye?
Vanish. Garrote 3 max. Then rupture if you know you can get close to full duration on the rupture.
small folio
are you guys running exan and crimson tempest or TB and PB with 3x SS?
strange python
Using no ss traits atm. Tb sims 100 dps (0.9%) better than exsg for me
thick jacinth
yeah I got 1 SS and I lose 64 dps going to exsang
small folio
i have a question on rotation as well, if i decided to run crimson tempest, am i using that as a a finisher each time or just to apply the bleed then to envenom? In terms of ad cleave
pallid bluff
i think on 4? you use ct as the finisher
may be more
after you have ruptures up
on the adds that are going to live long enough
strange python
Rupture on 3 targets. If theres more use ct
what does mean Archieve of titans 10+ or 5+
when i open bloodmallet
seconds?
or targets? ^^
livid kestrel
reorigination array stacks
small folio
In that situation I would still rupture the elite if im finishing with CT correct?
strange python
aha stacks
pallid bluff
i like to rupture a couple things before going into CT spamming
for the energy regen
coral cosmos
thank btw guys, i simmed all combos
feral cargo
i got 3 reorigination array how i can reach 5 or 10
coral cosmos
Doom + fathoms was top
spice sorrel
what sin pvp talents you guys like for bgs?
coral cosmos
but it is an on-use, barf
small folio
on bosses in M+ with CT and Exan, i would apply all the bleeds and exan, then reapply when near going out and envenom, then rinse and repeat with exan on CD?
main blaze
kill bosses for 5 or 10 weeks
pallid bluff
The CT bleed doesn't matter for exsang, but i typically use exsang on cd unless we are about to pull a boss or a scary add is in the next pack
just pick an elite and blow it up
small folio
alright bet, thank you
pallid bluff
most of the time it doesnt matter if you pandemic the rupture either if the rest of your dps is decent
strange python
so I am confuzzled, still use Subterfuge in pve?
do you always wanna refresh bleeds before exsan even if your rupture is on like 17 seconds when exsan comes up
pallid bluff
for M+ 100%.
iron nimbus
do we use exsang on CD like TB?
pallid bluff
for bosses yes you should be prepping your bleeds to have full duration to exsang. for trash its not that big of a deal if its not a full duration cause most stuff will die pretty fast. some priority adds you want to set up before. @strange python
not sure what the correct answer is for raid but for M+ yeah pretty much exsang on cooldown unless a boss is coming up or scary add
undone cairn
@strange python the answer that you wrote earlier was it for me?
The vanish comment
glacial hollow
is assa dead now with the nerf?
strange python
Vanish then garrote 3 ads
Then go to rupture
Just. Wait for the garrote to fall off before applying a new one
Bug atm with empowered garrote afaik
undone cairn
What if I'm not talented into subterfuge
strange python
Then rip
undone cairn
Hm
marble hemlock
@glacial hollow its still very much alive
pallid bluff
and very good!
small folio
so you want to over cap CP for that third garrote?
supple hearth
@marble hemlock what traits have u been using for m+
marble hemlock
still playing 3xSS
undone cairn
Cause I plan on using master Assassin
strange python
I would overcap cp for that 3rd garrote on a 3rd target.
glacial hollow
Is sub dead? XD @marble hemlock
marble hemlock
sub is garbage :<
glacial hollow
OH SHIT i watch your stream man
marble hemlock
nah, its not
undone cairn
going straight st
glacial hollow
I'm totalmuppet, been asking loads of questions lately lol
strange python
Master assassin. You going a toxic blade build?
marble hemlock
i think all 3 specs are very evenly matched right now
undone cairn
Yeah
strange python
I see
marble hemlock
yeah, i figured as much :p
undone cairn
2x DD 1x AotT
marble hemlock
@supple hearth if you have it available you could potentially try some scent of blood shenanigans, but with the current fight-times even on fortified, i dont see that winning out over 3xSS
strange python
Then just rupture them
undone cairn
For raids anyway
hazy iron
What drops DD anyways?
undone cairn
Umm idk I just had it in my bags
solar zealot
Outlaw and Assa for me simmed the literal exact same dps on ST
undone cairn
They're 340 so ya
m0's
It'd be nice if I was able to replace my 345 weapon sometime soon 
long glacier
if not using Deeper Stratagem and I am at 4 cp, do i "waste" a cp by using mutilate to gain a 5th cp and then rupture/envenom? or do i just rupture/envenom at 4 cp?
ripe dock
I ran master assassin in mythic raid tonight was pretty decent
undone cairn
Havok you would rupture/envenom at 4
ripe dock
Just for taloc/mother
long glacier
thanks sfw
undone cairn
Since you'd be overcapping points basically
long glacier
that's what i figured. just wanted reassurance lol
strange python
oh so overcaping for 3rd garrote is good damn i love u guys 😄 thanks for all this info 😄
So raidbots chose 2xSS 1xAotT 1xheedmycall 1xov.power 1xgutripper
so im just gona trust it right?
siming most dps with that combo
single target 300seconds patchwerk i mean its all default i didnt change anything
shell viper
Whats better maintaining EP as much as possible or making sure I have higher combo envenoms?
strange python
is CT just to apply dot and then go back to rup / env
how can you even maintain EP? it lats 4 seconds only way is to use low cp envenoms or if ur low on energy u cant maintain it? (just asking)
pallid bluff
i like to get 2-3 ruptures rolling on elites and then CT spam on 4+ instead of envenom but thats just what feels good to me could be slighty unoptimal
arctic isle
u dont maintain ep
strange python
in legion you would maintain that thing that was simmilar to ep but it lasted longer
that was satisfying 😄
lucid bolt
Where is that list of weak auras i dont see it in the pinned section
lost sentinel
I've read peopel say you don't want to overwrite envenom, but doesn't envenom keep up to 30% duration of previous envenom like rupture/garrotte?
mortal rampart
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lucid bolt
thank you!
arctic isle
yes envenom has pandemic
unkempt gulch
click one to find out 😉
strange python
ah
mossy abyss
guys what is the pvp cap item for week 3?
strange python
i made my own 😃 dont like those bars and shit
unkempt gulch
gloves, @mossy abyss
rain breach
so double dose is the new trait to go?
strange python
why?
rain breach
its the best beside the 2 raid traits
rain breach
dps
pallid bluff
in m+ its trash and you still go SS
spice surge
You could prob argue for scent of blood in high m+
Havent tried it, but seems pretty good
pallid bluff
yeah but not anything anyone is doing now
scenic nacelle
SS is in such a grey area. Azerite reforger going to have a field day swapping between SS and archive
pallid bluff
stuff still doesnt live long enough in 12 and 13s to be worth it IMO and you dont want to lose CT on fort. and taking CT with SoB seems counter intuitive
sinful badger
guys am i losing my mind or did they nerf haste
i was 24% last night and now 19%
?
fast nacelle
opaque tree
where you inside Uldir, with an azerite trait like Archive or Lazer Matrix?
fathom falcon
What's a decent amount of haste for 355-360 ilvl?
strange python
https://imgur.com/a/RctrMNW this is how i made my weak auras for assasination
pallid bluff
I have like 1200ish at 370 and like 900 crit
fathom falcon
What % is that?
fallow sinew
is haste useless for high M+ ?
pallid bluff
errr like 18?
fathom falcon
I'm stuck with 11% coming from sub
pallid bluff
Haste is pretty good for m+ still I’ve found. I just drop like 3-4% for more mastery and crit
fallow sinew
I just looked at the n°1 rogue and he doesn't have any haste, just crit/mastery
https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Seliathan#season=season-bfa-1
rain breach
hmm double dose and master poisoner could be a good idea, someone tried it already?
strange python
he has 4% haste wtf
pallid bluff
Galecallers is probably covering that haste he’s dropping.
sudden elk
sin or subt right now which is better spec?
cursive dune
the one you can play better
plain thistle
thats because HASTE for multi target isnt good 😃
haste is our bis or second bis just for single target
its our worst stats for AoE
fallow sinew
then why use galecaller 🤔
cursive dune
because it still makes dots tick faster
pallid bluff
and cause ST in mythic plus is still important for high keys
plain thistle
its good for AoE, not the best, but maybe its the best he got 🤷
fallow sinew
I just want a guide for M+ build/itemization tbh
cursive dune
sim yourself at 4 targets
warm geode
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
plain thistle
you cant tag him, he is here @marble hemlock hello 😃
marble hemlock
what?
fallow sinew
ohshit it's him 
plain thistle
they are asking about your gear, with almost no haste for dungeon and GC
strange python
o wow
dusty glade
nice
strange python
Yeah why 4% haste
slate dust
fathoms only giving me a 300 dps increase over my shitty 355 electromental in a jar
marble hemlock
haste kinda sucks for dungeons imo
slate dust
feelsbad
fallow sinew
then why galecaller ?
strange python
anyone have an opinion on 2nd row talents in pvp?
marble hemlock
a lot of the value for haste comes from how it increases the bleed-tickrate, which leads to more VW energy-gain, but with multidotting on trash energy isnt an issue anyway, so haste devalues a lot
strange python
if not using SS
so how to get good balance for both? is it possible?:D or we just need 2x sets of gear one for aoe dungeons one for single targ raids
marble hemlock
galecaller is very nice for singletarget, since you generally get 2 vendetta exsanguinates into a boss it makes up for the low haste there
and you can pop it during the start of a trash pull to increase garrote dps, while also granting more energy when you dont have 4+ ruptures running yet for energy sustain, so basically it speeds up ramp-up until you can maintain ruptures+CT
fallow sinew
loaded dice+galecaller is your optimal trinket setup ?
pallid bluff
whats your crit% at and do you know if popping galecallers after putting up garrotes updates their tickrate or do they snapshot
marble hemlock
as far as im aware dots update dynamically, its only exsang that snapshots
cursive dune
poison bomb still makes me happier than CT does though tbh
rustic onyx
what settings do you use to sim yourself for m+ ?
marble hemlock
40sec 6t patchwerk
grim mason
whats your twitch @marble hemlock
fallow sinew
I have 370 dice and 355 galecaller, I don't even want to use my 395 cannon
rustic onyx
tyvm for your answer
grim mason
cannon is trash I use my 345 loaded dice
marble hemlock
ive only gotten cannon yday, didnt really get a chance to try it out yet
but it seems pretty bad, same as electromental
grim mason
over a 350 canon
marble hemlock
its fairly hard to gauge a trinkets effectiveness when youre comparing one with a damage proc to one with a stat proc
strange python
sad that construcct overcharger is booty it wf for me
fallow sinew
the cannon has fixed damage, so bad for multi
marble hemlock
construct overcharger is a weird one
since it has pretty high uptime, but the bonus itself is kinda meh and you rarely get 8stacks
strange python
@marble hemlock do you go with same gear 4%haste at raids or u have different setup?
doesnt sim well for me but id love to use it
marble hemlock
nah, i got a 20% haste setup for singletarget for raids
basically haste>crit for raiding, crit>mastery for dungeons, seems to work best so far
cursive dune
thoughts on SoB for m+ ?
marble hemlock
you could theoretically go for more ST damage in dungeons, but why would you when even if you commit to singletarget youre still not gonna beat an arcanemage or affli lock
fallow sinew
Thought on this week affixes ? Dungeons are way harder than last week imo
marble hemlock
id love to play 3xSoB, but right now kill-times on trash are too short :/
strange python
true
pallid bluff
tfw you have to be the ST guy cause you dont run with arcane mages or afflilocks FeelsBadMan
cursive dune
yeh i feel like SoB will be juicy once we start doin 15's
cursive dune
i bet
marble hemlock
but once mobs just start flopping over it loses a lot of value, and the rampup is annoyingly high
id love it if blizzard changed how SoB worked
by increasing the stat-gain but limiting it to like 5 stacks max
strange python
So im listening to raidbots atm for single target it says 2xSS 1xAotT 1xgutripper 1xov.power 1xheedmycall should i go with this @marble hemlock
marble hemlock
so it would be slightly better for ST and easier to ramp up
normal forge
With exsang after opener do i use on CD and hold for Vend+Vanish combo?
strange python
thats my last question 😄
marble hemlock
i usually trust raidbots, sometimes i get up to get a glass of water, and come back with an empty glass, im pretty sure a computer is smarter than that
strange python
cool then
marble hemlock
like
fallow sinew
thanks for taking the time to answer my questions @marble hemlock 
strange python
people here were saying that for m+ 1xSS and 2xScent of blood is best for m+
thick jacinth
@ me
marble hemlock
not sure if it was on purpose so SS wouldnt sim even higher than it already did in the hopes of it not getting nerfed, but the APL generally doesnt handle multi-fights very well
cursive dune
as we just said i feel like SoB would be better if your groups trash kill times are low
marble hemlock
@lone junco can tell you all about that though :p
rustic onyx
what is your typical opener on m+ trash ? gar gar gar into ct then dump some rupture onto lon g lived add ?
marble hemlock
3xgarr > ct > fok for cp (never more than twice) > rup > exsang > and then try to get 2-3ruptures per 1ct refresh
if you get unlucky and the first 2 foks only grant 1cp each, still rupture and exsang, you cant afford to cast another one or youll starve energy
should go 3xgarr into rupture aswell if you see that none of your first 3 garrotes got a DP application from autoattacks
pallid bluff
do you ever reapply garrote or just rupture/CT
marble hemlock
if its 2-3 mobs i reapply after the SS/subt ones have run its course, but on larger packs fok has a higher DPE than garrote
pallid bluff
word. thanks for the info
strange python
so 3x SS is still good? what do u say about 1xSS 2xScent of blood?
lone junco
3ss in m+
marble hemlock
i only have 1 scent piece, and it competes with my 370 chest
but 3xss still feels really good
opal mason
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
lets say i get 2 pieces for scent is it better than 3ss?
marble hemlock
oh and since someone asked about affixes, teeming is pretty nice for assa actually, and so is forti, its just that most tanks dont know how to handle it yet
but theres a hidden affix called "blizzard incompetence" that makes mobs spawn in one key, and when you do the same key again those mobs arent there, thats actually a big problem right now :p
candid phoenix
the SS nerf is absurd, up to the point that usefulness in M+ becomes questionable
fallow sinew
I should switch TB/PB to CT/Ex to compete
candid phoenix
in raiding environment i didnt see much difference
pallid bluff
i have no idea how they managed that
marble hemlock
its hard to say addikt, i havent gotten a chance to re-try sob yet, so id rather not give info where im not sure about how accurate it is
i can definitely say though that 3xSS is still very much working and provides good dps
rustic onyx
I had a lot of issue with spawned mob being G'huuns on 10+ real annoying
strange python
aha thanks alot for info mate
marble hemlock
overall id say the balancing pass made us lose 10-12% overall dps in a dungeon
fallow sinew
marble hemlock
thats not too bad, considering the only 2 other classes that could compete in overall were frostmage and warlock, and SO has been nerfed pretty heavily aswell
strange python
do you rup ct or ct rup
marble hemlock
depends on how many of my 3 garrotes got DP application from autoattacks
if you dont have any DP procs on those and go CT, youll starve on energy unless you get super lucky and that CT applies the DP
not that great for consistency, so go 3xGarr into rup if you notice you didnt get poison applications
rustic onyx
have you tried the trinket from king rest that give versa with 2 min use ?
marble hemlock
havent gotten lucky with kingsrest yet, id love to try it though
rustic onyx
it sim higher than my galecaller but i feel like you can have galecaller up every pack or 1/2 trash pack which make it so good
marble hemlock
although versa isnt the best of stats for us
galecallers is up almost every trashpull
rustic onyx
ye
marble hemlock
and makes rampup quite a bit easier
right now id say BIS trinkets would be galecaller+spyglass
cursive dune
did you say youd recommend simming at 6t patchwerk?
rustic onyx
6t patchwerk 40sec
marble hemlock
yeah
rustic onyx
do you ever use vendetta on a big pack ? or do you keep it for those big beefy dude like the one on the bridge in shrine
marble hemlock
drop it for priority target damage if required
rustic onyx
ye i usually keep it it we pull a ghuun with other mob
marble hemlock
or if you fall behind on ruptures, you can pop it for the energy 😛
rustic onyx
or some scenario like that
viscid pawn
Does Blizz know about the garrote bug?
rustic onyx
but it feel weird popping it on someone and then multi dotting the rest of the pack
marble hemlock
yeah it depends a lot on how you play the trash
we generally cc 1-3 infests and pull all the other non-infested together
so keeping vendetta for those infested ones you clean up after saves quite a bit of time
tropic rover
So what's our best trait for M+ now? Still SS?
marble hemlock
3xSS
rustic onyx
is there a way to re stealth when you cc does g'huun ? except vanish ofc
this tilt me to the ground
marble hemlock
is still very good
there might be better combinations/options out there
but its almost impossible to try them
rustic onyx
poly and dh cage seem to put me in combat
marble hemlock
since youd need 370/385 azerite with those traits to be able to compare
nah, cant restealth if you cc infest and then pull the pack its linked to
tropic rover
I see. Sweet, thanks for looking out. And as for talents, CT over PB or just Sim it?
rustic onyx
Did you played CT last week aswell ?
rustic onyx
do you use stat weight from the 6t 40sec to get stats or just feels ?
marble hemlock
its to get a rough idea
the weights favor mastery over crit for example
but i favor crit over mastery
since more consistency during aoe is very important
the sim doesnt care, cause it has thousands of iterations
so if theres a few in there where youre hitting 6 targets and fok 4 times to finally get 5 CP
rustic onyx
you value crit for the cp with fok i assume
cunning needle
with rankings on warcraft logs - are the rankings calculated for the week of the run or is it overall
aka with the SS nerf, will it mean that i automatically will rank lower due to doing less damage or will it only rank to those who have run during the week?
marble hemlock
that just drops the entire pull
i want consistency with my CP generation
so getting more crit helps with that
if youre hitting 10mobs with fok and generate 1 cp, thats just... idk
feels horrible
and also does horrible dps
thick jacinth
yeah but you're spamming so many foks anyway
marble hemlock
well, it makes a big difference if my first rupture that needs to be after 2 foks is a 2cp or 5cp one
its the difference between playing catchup 5sec later, or being able to multidot or even spam CT
rustic onyx
is there a "cap" you recommend to have a somewhat consistent generation of cp ?
or the more the better
maybe not a cap i worded poorly
but a % you feel good at
marble hemlock
ye
thick jacinth
o.o
marble hemlock
since you generally sit closer to 35-40% with trinketproc/weapon enchant
so the CP generation is pretty consistent on 6+ mob pulls
rustic onyx
and then you would start focusing more on mastery or just keep getting higher crit
marble hemlock
ideally youd want 5cp with every fok of course, but thats not really necessary
rustic onyx
not in aoe
marble hemlock
i usually try to fok twice and then finish, regardless of the CP generated
karmic forum
is SS still bugged if you garrote another target without subterfuge on?
dusty glade
yes
karmic forum
rofl
strange python
now when u say all that thinking about all crit/mastery items that i threw away.... :(((((((((
karmic forum
nerf it but wont fix it
marble hemlock
all 3 stats have their own merit really
thick jacinth
30% crit seems a bit uh much
marble hemlock
haste is good for st, bad for aoe. mastery is bad for st, good for aoe. versa is decent for both 😄
so ideally id drop some mastery and get a bit more haste
mortal rampart
this is for m+
rustic onyx
according to stat weight it's the lowest of all
deft locust
because haste
rustic onyx
maybe not bad but worse than the other
edgy trellis
@thick jacinth sim it
thick jacinth
because you generate so much energy
marble hemlock
deft locust
is valued for both bleed speed and energy regen/melee attacks
in aoe
you don't care for either of the latter
so it's value is cut compared to mastery or crit
marble hemlock
you generate energy via venomous wounds, which devalues haste a lot
thick jacinth
I know how the class works
dusty glade
://
marble hemlock
sure, you could have 20% haste and make due with 4 ruptures, or drop haste entirely, do 5, and still maintain
cedar elk
anyone using elvui that knows how to disable deadly poison from showing up on the boss frames? That way it is easier to track garrote and rupture? On mythic vectus, gets kinda hectic and seeing deadly poison is triggering. Trying to play around with the filters but no luck
thick jacinth
I'm just saying MY weights aren't valuing haste that low.
deft locust
whats your characters name>?
thick jacinth
Xegonyy
marble hemlock
well, im simming 6t, 40sec, patchwerk, no buffs
deft locust
server?
deft locust
thats fine
marble hemlock
and those are the values im getting, with 30% crit and 1k mastery, and pretty low haste
and haste is still by far the worst stat for aoe 😛
deft locust
I'll sim ya
marble hemlock
so yeah, doesnt really matter if its crit+haste or mastery or versa, i personally think that as long as it has crit, its gonna be good for your overall
the crit is just for consistencies sake
lone junco
exang
deft locust
daannggg, 30% crit
marble hemlock
my ST gear has ~22% crit
deft locust
you are up there
marble hemlock
and like 20% haste
thick jacinth
yikes
cursive dune
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kTRRauWBaUz6rspwP5gSFC PB not that far behind
thick jacinth
the fuck sim is that LOL
marble hemlock
6
pallid bluff
6t 40sec patchwekr im assuming
marble hemlock
i wouldnt really trust the sim when it comes to using spells properly on multi-target fights tho
heck
marble hemlock
it opens with garr garr rup
marble hemlock
anyway
deft locust
I assume you have ST gear on atm
thick jacinth
yeah
deft locust
so weights are a bit less than that most likely
marble hemlock
SS is still very much alive, thats really all thats important for now
deft locust
ye, SS in m+ still top dog as long as tank doesn't hate clearing dungeons in time
.>
marble hemlock
and i personally am happy that you need to work a bit more for good dps now, and not just press garrote thrice and then go afk
rich olive
So what traits are people going for raid?
pallid bluff
you just gotta put the tanks in their place and tell them to not chain pull
deft locust
yep
thick jacinth
archive x3 for raid haha
glad delta
did they break tricks again
thick jacinth
broken how?
glad delta
pallid bluff
i had no issues with it
north terrace
sin still fairing pretty well according to 1 day sims! yay
marble hemlock
playing with a protpaladin is always a pain
wanna tricks mid-pull? too bad, he just used divine steed, so no tricks for you
pallid bluff
tell me about it
spice surge
Yeah thats really stupid
marble hemlock
which is odd, considering that MD works 😄
pallid bluff
mine has a boner for Steading into the next pack as we are finishing one up
marble hemlock
i mean
pallid bluff
and im running in the opposite direction like "please dont get in combat"
marble hemlock
if he enjoys depletos
thats his choice i guess
keep in mind though that even if he pulls the next pack, as long as you stay away more than 15yard, you still drop combat
unless one of those mobs already targeted you with a spell or ranged attack
marble hemlock
sub 17717, combat 17038, assa 16987
spice surge
Looking at top combinations on herodamage the difference is like 600 between outlaw&sub, sin is right in the middle
So they're all basicly even
zenith cedar
Blizzard killed my desire to play rogue
hollow stone
Fol ct fok w ma and no ss was decent in m+. Still think ss is better tho
zenith cedar
Spend so much time perfecting and honing ur skills to a spec
hollow stone
Fok*
hollow stone
Irrelevance? Lol..
zenith cedar
Sub is a gimped version of previous, better iterations of sub
exotic abyss
3x SS still the best for m+
zenith cedar
Every single spec is gimped
exotic abyss
so uh irrelewhat
hollow stone
Yea. I just wanted to mess around with no ss to see
zenith cedar
As a dps class that literally can do no other
Being middle of the pack is not appropriate
As blizzard has said for years
peak sapphire
Were not middle of the pack
zenith cedar
They can’t follow their own. Philosophies
UhhhhHhHhHhhHh
Yeah pretty much
We are
In actual raid damage
Sims are one thing
Rogue sims are overvalued because we have the best sim developers
marble hemlock
what
still hinge
lol
marble hemlock
i dont even
zenith cedar
Lol
hollow stone
Lol. My raid dps is still really good as sin. Top most fights
zenith cedar
Rogues has simulation engines literally years before other classes
Guy who wrote SimC wrote original rogue engine
marble hemlock
to be fair, that might say more about the people youre raiding with than the spec you yourself are playing 😄
hollow stone
Go back to whatever class you were playing before then
zenith cedar
I’ve always played a rogue lol
This class is gutted now
10 years of rogue and were in possibly worst state ever
cedar elk
anyone using elvui that knows how to disable deadly poison from showing up on the boss frames? That way it is easier to track garrote and rupture? On mythic vectus, gets kinda hectic and seeing deadly poison is triggering. Trying to play around with the filters but no luck
still hinge
i don't know what you are doing wrong then. perhaps a break?
still hinge
@cedar elk add it to the blacklist filter
marble hemlock
im still happy
cedar elk
@still hinge im trying but what filter is it under? Because when I type Deadly Poison it doesnt come up, nor can i find it in the filters list
marble hemlock
i mean, i dont know about you, but im still very much desired as a rogue
cedar elk
Can't manually ad it to Spell ID or name either @still hinge
civic palm
Do I have to get the TrollBanHammer in here again > _>" ?
dusk sun
Dude nice is that on a st or m+? @marble hemlock
marble hemlock
its overall from m+
civic palm
overallM+ assuming
dusk sun
Nice which traits arw u running??
marble hemlock
3xSS
civic palm
BUT THEY WERE NERFED INTO THE GROUND SELI
dusk sun
i knew it’d be still viable!
dusk sun
To be fair it isnt a bad nerf
cedar elk
@still hinge Ty, just added it, lets see if it works
marble hemlock
its literally
dusk sun
It was really doing crazy dmg
hollow stone
It sounded a lot worse than it actually is
marble hemlock
~10-12% overall nerf, at most
still hinge
should that's what i did to stop them from showing
marble hemlock
so yeah, id rather have those 10%
but its not like garrote doesnt deal damage anymore
civic palm
I think most people just forgot about the Thunderous Blast and Laser Matrix nerfs.
marble hemlock
and SO
civic palm
and even WITHOUT SS Garrote is still monster damage.
marble hemlock
and almsot every other good trait that other classes that were somewhat competitive stacked
dusk sun
SS can even be viable for raiding? Just asking
civic palm
SS just makes a ton of sense in M+
SS is just as "viable" as anything else when SIM'd.
marble hemlock
for raiding it generally depends on what you have available, and at what ilvl
hollow stone
Its viable. Its just theres better traits for raiding
civic palm
Item Level is King in Raids unless an encounter lets you abuse a trait.
marble hemlock
pretty much, ye
dusk sun
True
tacit cedar
What are those better traits for raiding?
dusk sun
Thanks everyone i learned alot
civic palm
The higher item level ones 😛
dusk sun
Usually uldir traits i presume
marble hemlock
any combination of doubledose, laser matrix, archive of the titans
tacit cedar
Well played
civic palm
1 Uldir trait.
and then w/e else you have at the highest.
Twist is good, SS is good, Double Dose is better.
especially if you can tunnel.
marble hemlock
i think 3xttk with high crit is pretty damn good right now
civic palm
and are purely Single Target.
Yeah Twist is going to crush once we're higher Crit.
Though by then there are probably going to be different traits.
So who knows.
dusk sun
I did try 3X DD i didnt have a good opener but i ended with being top 4 dps on vectis
marble hemlock
imagine if the bonus duration would stack aswell with more traits
3sec per CP spent on envenom crit 😄
25sec envenoms here we go
civic palm
IMO the duration is already very long.
marble hemlock
yeah
civic palm
Like, clipping training wheels long.
marble hemlock
getting 11sec envenoms is kinda nutty
dusk sun
Imagine 1x twist with double dd
marble hemlock
how does it work with non-crit envenoms tho
dusk sun
:kreygasm:
marble hemlock
assume you have like 8sec left from your crit ttk envenom
and then do a noncrit one for 5sec
do you keep the full 8sec duration, or is it just the 5sec+pandemic?
dire spoke
is the crying over yet?
dusk sun
What crying?
civic palm
and that Blizzard SOMEHOW got the Uldir traits effectively the same value.
dire spoke
civic palm
The past two days has been a like of whining.
marble hemlock
i think most of the "the world is ending" people have muted #assa and unmuted #outlul by now
civic palm
after their SUB mute from earlier as well?
dusk sun
Ahaha
lyric crater
wow they nerf the crap out of shroud it drop form 1st to 12th on wow head
civic palm
Pardon?
marble hemlock
yeah
dusk sun
I knew when i read the nerf ppl were gonna be whining
marble hemlock
started by rerolling to rogue from their mage or DH
playing sub cause it looked great from beta
instamute when bits nerf hit
switch to assa
instamute when ss nerf hit, switch to combat
dusk sun
sub is eh for me tbh
civic palm
I CAN'T FUCKING BELIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE BLIZZARD
lyric crater
didnt think it drop that bad i like geting 4 point off one garrato
marble hemlock
and once they get nerfed, its back to DH again
civic palm
It didn't drop anywhere.
dire spoke
wow a naruto move, I wanna play that
marble hemlock
people seem to forget that the changes to traits werent supposed to be class balance anyway
civic palm
They're soft-class changes in some cases, as SS does change how you play a little.
But not that much really.
marble hemlock
i mean yeha, its a byproduct obviously
but its quite clear their maingoal was to just fix the imbalance between certain traits
civic palm
Yeah.
marble hemlock
and do the class balance later
dusk sun
There are many ways to play rogue tbh
civic palm
40% lead isn't OK.
dusk sun
Trait wise
vapid oracle
I’m just excited for trait buffs and new traits tbh 😃
marble hemlock
well patrick
the problem is, that blizzard doesnt want multiple ways
they want one way
"higher ilvl? equip it"
dusk sun
I personallt feel comfy with triple DD on raids 😄
civic palm
Yeah considering my assumption that traits will get more interesting as the expansion continues, the next series of traits could be neat.
civic palm
No fuck you.
marble hemlock
so theyre struggling really hard right now to give this core-feature some meaningful decisions you can make as a player
dusk sun
i will kms
undone cairn
gimme gimme
marble hemlock
while also providing a very straightforward handling of the issue for people who dont wanna bother with simming etc.
civic palm
Thankfully they've found a way to balance M+ AND Raid by making traits that work well with restealthing and multi-targeting.
and make it simple for the people that do not care enough.
Higher item level? Put it on.
vapid oracle
We didn’t even have tiersets in the first raid I hope this is similar and the traits get cooler from here on
civic palm
They probably will.
marble hemlock
so on one hand they want every ilvl upgrade to be a power increase, while also providing multiple traits that you can "choose" from to build your character a little
final citrus
The higher ilvl equip it theory will never work cos they can't balance classes properly
civic palm
Even without gear-sets 😛
vapid oracle
I assume they will people like to doomsday speak though when I try to talk like that lol
marble hemlock
it also means you can break things more easily in m+
final citrus
Unless the main stat value overweighs all subs it wont work
civic palm
Yeah, silly shit can happen in M+ and things probably won't matter in raids.
SS being a good example of that.
a good starter example even.
civic palm
It's already strong IIRC, just kinda potato.