any good?
#assassination
hexed root
unreal bear
@late niche i expect some sub buffs, slight sin buff
astral hound
kk
elder copper
Hey guys, I just re-rolled assa and got my first azerite piece to go with it. Was wondering if Sharpened Blades is better than Scent of Blood. I see Sharpened Blades its top 4 on single target damage, but I can't even see Scent of Blood on the chart
astral hound
unless hectic cleave?
solid sundial
So laser matrix and archive only works in raids so what's probably best for M+ now?
stuck shuttle
for pure ST of course
strange python
Alright thanks for the help, I'll try to help her focus on that a bit more
unreal bear
@solid sundial laser matrix works in arena
surreal rivet
i use SB even in multi target, doesnt make much of a difference in sims for me personally
inner pulsar
@solid sundial Reorigination Array only applies in Uldir, the trait still works
wintry canyon
guys fast I jsut came in raid
unreal bear
oh, rgr
wintry canyon
what traits?
dusky fulcrum
xDDD i got dagger in mythic and heroic in same raidday, holy shit i saved up alot RNG
wind berry
inner pulsar
@wintry canyon Quick, sim yo self
unreal bear
@dusky fulcrum super jealous
wintry canyon
aight lets go
dusky fulcrum
i played since uldir release and got 0 weapons, now i got both mother daggers same day im so happy
hexed root
@unreal bear
unreal bear
@dusky fulcrum and galecaller's 😢
dusky fulcrum
i had 350 and 355 daggers before
solid sundial
Oh ok so the trait should still be good in M+ even without the array buff?
inner pulsar
No, that is the answer
hexed root
@unreal bear
astral hound
anyone know of an easy way to sim gear u dont have without typing in ids?
stuck shuttle
gear compare?
dusky fulcrum
@unreal bear 350 galecaller isnt that rare xD i am more envious of 375+ ones
wind berry
@hexed root you have the same azerite armor i do ... no ideia why i simm 1k more 😐
inner pulsar
Gear compare aye
tropic rover
Question about SS opener. Why G-R-G instead of G-G-R?
astral hound
like if i wanted to test a 355 galecaller or darkmoon card
hexed root
365/350 weps, i have deadly on mh and quick on off? idk how crazy that is
stuck shuttle
raidbots does that..
near swan
Which 90 trait should i take? I don't really have any azerite traits worth considering
dusky fulcrum
oh
stuck shuttle
@near swan sim yourself
astral hound
looks good thnx
hexed root
@wind berry yea, it's kinda tilting trying to get into a mythic guild when i do what i sim if not a little more but still can't get there
dusky fulcrum
well u do know u can reset keys right?
wind berry
i have 370 ( mothers ) / 355 from freehold
dusky fulcrum
if u delete ur key u get a new one in next + mythic
so i can farm for shrine keys
so u can *
hexed root
thoughts @unreal bear ?
strange python
I have a question which I've never figured out, when there's nothing else to do, the rotation is usually mutilate mutilate envenon right?
dusky fulcrum
aww :/ ull get one eventually!
solid sluice
Why do you want shrine keys?
strange python
And what uptime on envenom is a decent one
dusky fulcrum
i boosted a 330 DH and he gave me trinket when he looted it
inner pulsar
Sim yo self is always the answer if you want the right answer. Read the guide is the answer if you want the easy answer
solid sundial
Do you guys like simulationcraft or raidbots better now for simming?
lone junco
@astral hound raidbots gear compare. Once you import your gear. You can put any imaginary piece in another test set. Make sure to adjust ilvl etc.
strange python
Note I might be talking bullshit since I'm not asking for myself and I don't play rogue
inner pulsar
@solid sundial Raidbots is just a gui for Simcraft
astral hound
yeah this feature is nice
tropic rover
On opener with SS trait, why GRG instead of GGR?
inner pulsar
@solid sundial Much easier to use for most folks
hexed root
@tropic rover because of subterfuge
solid sundial
gotcha
rustic onyx
@strange python when nothing to do you aim to clip your envenom buff i think
unreal bear
@rotund anvil GRG -> rupture is rolling, tick of empowered garrote + full duration garrote
hexed root
you refresh the timer on it while maximising dot uptime
stuck shuttle
Raidbots just runs SimC on the cloud for you
lone junco
@strange python we have low crit right now. Env uptime is going to be low. I would start with the guide listed in this channel.
near swan
what is shrouded suffocation?
astral hound
method killing ghuun atm btw
lone junco
High garrote and rupture uptime is a goal. But boss mechanics may drop it.
stuck shuttle
@near swan i think you need to look at the basics first
hexed root
gz method
stuck shuttle
before coming here
tropic rover
Oh okay, I see, and then you let them both fall off completely before reapplying as to not overwrite the subterfuge buff, correct?
strange python
Ah alright so the uptime in my earlier log is based on rulture and garrote not envenom, that's what concerned me
sand whale
grats method
strange python
Rupture *
near swan
@stuck shuttle I played assassination for all of last expac and never saw anything about it
nvm
azerite trait
stuck shuttle
read the guides
hexed root
holy fuck all those twitch prime subs
near swan
its what im reading now
unreal bear
those subs holy fuck
near swan
i skipped over azerite traits
solid sluice
Did they just get ghuun?
unreal bear
yep
acoustic cave
method got world first
strange python
Another question I have since the guide doesnt mention it (I hope i didnt miss that), when do I use trinkets/blood fury in opener+rotation
hexed root
shroud just gifted like 100 subs
lone junco
Top 10 list.
Haste
GC trinket.
Good traits.
Maintain garrote and rupture uptimes. Don't waste cps. Don't cap E. don't delay vendetta vanish tb or exang.
The opener is listed.
hexed root
shroud just got like 600+ subs in the course of 5 mins lol
unreal bear
@hexed root your setup looks fine to me
lone junco
Most trinkets are used at vendetta
hexed root
@unreal bear right?!
strange python
Does it matter if before or after?
hexed root
its so tilting its so low, like I do what I sim if not a little more
without potioning too
idfk
i just need 370+ weps and OP trinks
stuck shuttle
@strange python difference is minimal
strange python
Ty
ebon bramble
wtf method had no rogues in their kill
distant peak
they had like 1 melee
exotic bridge
no melee lol
distant peak
eh they had 3
ebon bramble
they have a DH, windwalker and frost
distant peak
monk DK DH
lone junco
Sco has 14000 subs. 👀
distant peak
lol
ebon bramble
probably wanted the warrior for the buff
distant peak
just fuck rogues in particular
ebon bramble
all these melee are the ones that bring dps utility
ebon bramble
4 heal i think
distant peak
5 heals
heavy ginkgo
Is it worth to spread rupture with 2/3 CP with SoB traits?
outer acorn
is assa after nerfs still competitive in m+ compared to other rogue specs?
ebon bramble
5 melee
ebon bramble
@outer acorn yes, assassination is still king in m+
ah ok lol
just saw him as ret on this screen
strange python
Still best to stack suffocation trait?
distant peak
yeah, he is a ret main. Healing officer was at work.
inner pulsar
So then 4/13 ?
distant peak
yes
strange python
I dont understand why suddenly the dmg of suffocation is low on bloodmallet while nothing has changed
inner pulsar
Welp, good thing we aren't all in Method!
outer acorn
it was nerfed by 40%
distant peak
@strange python it was nerfed by 40% yesterday
strange python
Ah lol that explains
inner pulsar
...........
distant peak
they had no melee for mythrax either right?
hollow cloud
Does archive stack? 🤔
exotic bridge
I think 20 but more agi per stack?
heavy haven
how is leveling 110-20 as sin?
solid parrot
would level as outlaw imo
maiden edge
Leveling as anything is fine but I'd probably rate sin as the worst
exotic bridge
I would level as outlaw or sub
maiden edge
But it's what I did and it was fine
distant peak
outlaw is really good because your CP stun does big dmg.
solid parrot
stronk cleave as well and easy to cheese cliffs getting around w/ grappling
unique trellis
so if no more ss stakking what is the thing? 1 ss 2xdd?
late niche
reorigination array gets buffed every week right? You can't be late on your stacks?
distant peak
@unique trellis in Uldir you want 1 AOTT and 2 DD or SB
lunar nebula
!snek
prisma monolithBOT
Snake Build/What to do if you have Snake Eyes traits:
-Use standard mainhand/offhand, and Snake Eye traits.
-Rotation: Reroll RtB when out of Snake Eye buffs, dispatch (bte if RP is up or DS traits) if full combo points and Snake Eye buffs still up. Use other cds as the guide recommends, use pistol proc as usual.
-Note: With 1+ snake eyes traits reroll anything that isn't 2+ buffs once you are out of snake eyes stack and with 3 snake eye traits reroll anything that isn't a five buff. Play standard outlaw rotation for the time you have these.
This is not a substitution for reading the guide, just meant as a quick reference if you have Snake Eye traits.
distant peak
@late niche no catchup afaik
wintry parcel
@unique trellis I believe 3xSS is still BiS for M+. Haven't heard anything otherwise yet
solid parrot
Just gotta sim it
late niche
so how many stacks is the maximum as of today?
unique trellis
oh okey
proven ice
3
solid parrot
One problem i've had w/ M+ and SS is restealths on fast runs
smoky lantern
whats BiS for ST bosses tho in uldir o.o
distant peak
@smoky lantern today it's probably 3x SB. in a week or 2 it'll be 1 AOTT and 2 DD or SB
wintry parcel
Exeo was saying 2xSB 1xAOTT yesterday
cerulean walrus
Method world first bois
wintry parcel
But probably sim
inner pulsar
Always sim
distant peak
For sure simming will give you the most accurate results.
inner pulsar
Fixed my name
Might name change in game from Darmul to that
Now I can just @ people without having to type it
wintry parcel
efficiency
inner pulsar
And now we wait to test it....don't think we will have to wait long
late niche
hey guys what is the best trait to use for my particular character?
wintry parcel
rofl
late niche
:^)
warm sable
Why is Quick enchant in main hand and deadly on off ?
inner pulsar
It doesn't have to be, it is technically best stat on MH, second best on OH
warm sable
Wasn't paying attention at all 😃
outer acorn
anyone knows a good ass guide? i want to learn the opener w/o running ss
distant peak
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
late niche
"mother is hard" omegalul
acoustic cave
xdd
rancid oxide
Last defender isn't the problem
outer acorn
yeah, the small mobs
inner pulsar
Centipedes are the problem
hollow stone
Let prot pallies have this one guys
rancid oxide
It's being able to take that debuff out of waycrest
hollow stone
They deserve a break
acoustic cave
4th nerf since launch
solid parrot
too stronk
hollow stone
Ok, thats fair if you look at it that way
hollow stone
Sorry. No fun allowed in here. Just super cereal convos only
acoustic cave
@unborn root this is gold
visual mist
mint oar
can you get more than 3 garrotes out?
inner pulsar
acoustic cave
nope
mint oar
on subterfuge
bleak jungle
No
unborn root
Thanks fam. Appreciate it
bleak jungle
If you try, and you have SS
mint oar
where putting an unbuffed one breaks the other buffed ones
bleak jungle
You'll break your SS
mint oar
zzz
inner pulsar
Nope
ebon bramble
i have a feeling we're bound for more nerfs
acoustic cave
you open with 3 garrote on pack and fok rupture everyhting
inner pulsar
77 bucks for that mount and 6 months of games time.....
late niche
just nerf DH, we've had enough for now 😃
mint oar
@ebon bramble i think sub is getting nerfed before us
ebon bramble
sounds like desperation
mint oar
they're stronger rn
hollow stone
WORTH EVERY PENNY
inner pulsar
Correction, $77.94
mint oar
since the ss n erf we ripped
ebon bramble
is that ho wmuch 6 months is?
ebon bramble
wtoo hard
inner pulsar
Its actually cheaper
inner pulsar
6 months is $90 at 15 a month
calm shell
Sub isnt that good on higher keys. Sin has better sustain on cleave.
acoustic cave
I am still gona play assas becasue since we dont have anything other then dmg in m+'s , we should be doing that job so its gonna be good in the future anyway
I dont count shroud
grizzled plinth
so SS in m+ or na
acoustic cave
SS
inner pulsar
I literally just bought 6 months last night.....
acoustic cave
for m+
grizzled plinth
im good then
grim mason
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9hEp9EAqLtZS61dMpGUi46 but I love CT 😦
mint oar
i dont think sin is getting nerfed
acoustic cave
I got a 385 azerite with SS and heed my call today xd
so I am gonna keep ss anyway
mint oar
they nerfed ss by 40% already
proper igloo
rogue suck in raid tho besdies zul
ebon bramble
wonder what BM hunters feel like...melee while being ranged
inner pulsar
@proper igloo Gonna need to see your raider credentials to back up that ridiculous claim
ebon bramble
method brought 3 to their ghuun kill
inner pulsar
How is BM melee at ranged?
proper igloo
you meann 0?
wheat zealot
Hes talking about bm hunters not rogues
acoustic cave
How is BM melee?
primal gazelle
anyone done a 10+ this week as sin? hows the nerf?
wheat zealot
Only ranged that does physical damage, but not close to a melee lul
acoustic cave
I did +10 well I still pulled out 25k min dmg on 4 5 mob packs
calm shell
I feel like teeming is too strong for timed +10
acoustic cave
so its still good
compact void
Hey guys , on how many mobs should i apply Rupture in AOE ?
halcyon glacier
teeming+fort too hard to make timer on +10?
acoustic cave
but I am using CT
north leaf
@primal gazelle I've opted out of SS due to the nerf and went with other traits, a few tweaks here and there and I'm feeling good
acoustic cave
fortified and teeming
north leaf
CT is a must take for Teeming imo
acoustic cave
yea
wheat zealot
Just bring god tier aoe classes ez game
acoustic cave
frost mage dh sin rogue is nice
sick monolith
I did a +10 atal. The problem was fucking teeming and fortification. The invisible mobs roaming the map there was 4 of them like what the fuck.
calm shell
Moonkin-affli-sin rogue for the quaking aswell
north leaf
So don't get hit by the brutes
wheat zealot
The gauntlet after the first boss on kings rest this week is the worst part of it
sick monolith
Idk why they enabled teeming on that part
proven pumice
I'm really struggling on EP uptime in raid encounters
wheat zealot
Shouldnt focus on it to much
wheat zealot
I only go for 100% uptime on EP during exsan/vendetta
calm shell
I did an underrot 9 and the room on 2nd boss had like 30+ mobs 😂
modest zodiac
calm knot
so whats the verdict.. are ss still bis in m+?
north leaf
Not even remotely
compact void
What is EP and CT please ?
wheat zealot
Elaborate planning
wheat zealot
Crimson tempest
vivid terrace
compact void
@wheat zealot Ty !
wheat zealot
Yw
wheat zealot
In pvp
calm knot
not as much as ss i guess 😄
compact void
On how many mobs should i apply rupture when i'm in AOE ?
daring imp
oyyy
north leaf
Skyrix, 3 min for the energy return, I usually am comfortable up to 5 or 6 if I'm running PB
modest zodiac
Not sure i understand archive +5 vs archive +10. If it's about having more than 1 trait, then what are the horizontal colors?
marble whale
!opener
shell sandal
is SS better than the uldir AotT?
north leaf
Hairy. +5 / +10 is the amount of stacks for RA in uldir
pallid hound
I wonder, I play 2 ss and 1 matrix and I sim even hhigher than before ;d
fiery cradle
archive with 3 stacks sims higher than ss for me but idk if its simming properly
modest zodiac
well. Its bis so i will use it 😛
pallid hound
I mean, I changed wrists so probably thats why im simming highehr but I thought this nerf will be bigger thhan it actually is
fiery cradle
aott has some value ouside of uldir just not as much
wheat zealot
Not nearly as much as a handful of other traits
sick monolith
i do x2 SS and 1xArchive in raid.
compact void
@north leaf What is PB please ? 😄
wheat zealot
Aott is pretty lackluster outside of raid
fiery cradle
yep
wheat zealot
Especially since it takes so long to reach max stacks
keen spruce
get more haste 
wheat zealot
Thats the only time i ever feel starved
keen spruce
yes poisons very important 
near swan
im at 16% haste so i thought that might also be a problem
inner pulsar
@compact void Poison Bomb
near swan
27%!? holy cow
strange python
any good +10s to spam for lots of haste gear?
compact void
@inner pulsar Mmh and why would you put 5-6 rupture when you have PB ?
grim mason
Am I the only one using [Thistle Tea] in my rotations?
vast forum
doesn't thistle tea share CD with regular pots?
keen spruce
because rupture is one of your primary damaging abilities
solid sundial
Yes tea uses your pot slot
vast forum
it can't possibly have the value of a normal pot
grim mason
yeah i dont use pots lol too expensive
solid sundial
I'll still use it for normals or low level M+
vast forum
use prolonged power? 🤷
strange python
any good +10s to spam for lots of haste gear?
grim mason
bis list on wowhead are all haste gear
hollow stone
Prolonged power is still pretty good and they are dirt cheap
I still have like 2000 on my chars for non progression
strange python
@grim mason ty
compact void
How should i use my exsanguinate to be at 100% value ??
grim mason
ahhh I'll have to get some
near swan
in aoe situations do i just apply my rupture to all enemies and maintain that?
hollow stone
In true aoe (5+) you need to be running ct
Maintain ct and then tab ruptures. If some how you are capping energy then stop tabbing ruptures and use env
nimble tartan
hello can someone help me
im looking for herodamage chart b4 the nerf with old shrouded suffocation value 😃
near swan
what about in 2-5 situations?
shrewd bane
idc if it's worth to do a normal hoping to have a good dagger
hollow stone
Wf, yes. Weaps cannot tf
shrewd bane
:-(
hollow stone
In 2-4 you def want to spread rupts
shrewd bane
what I thought
near swan
thanks :]
hollow stone
Best you can get for weap is wf for 10ilvl + socket. And i guess speed as well :p
compact void
How should i use my exsanguinate to be at 100% value of it please ??
hollow stone
All rotation options (except ma) is in the pins or just go to ravenholdt and check
timid grotto
what's the best trait comb for m+ ? still 3x SS?
timid grotto
just curious if its worth to go 3x SS or like 2x SS and 1x SoB or something
hollow stone
In general, even in m+, ilvl is king
compact void
@hollow stone Ok ty !
inner pulsar
@timid grotto
timid grotto
I gladly only have 340 azerite pieces 
hollow stone
If all equal, ss is likely bis for m+
old schooner
does envenom proc apply on fan of knives?
hollow stone
It does on the poisons fok does
fiery cradle
any word of if aott is simming wrong?
sick vine
is there any sharpened WA?
halcyon glacier
check sub channel pins I think @sick vine
inner pulsar
Sharpened Blades: https://wago.io/r14XptS_7
hexed tinsel
So in Uldir i should use sharpened blades stacked not ss ya?
wooden island
is sub the way to go in raids now?
terse shuttle
guys does archive stack like for example having all 3 azerite pieces have the trait?
no go sin
inner pulsar
@hexed tinsel
hexed tinsel
@terse shuttle nope
terse shuttle
@hexed tinsel can you elaborate
inner pulsar
@terse shuttle THe trait stacks, the Reorg Array does not
hushed turtle
There is major falloff after piece 1
visual token
One n done
lone junco
@nimble tartan old ss was def number 2 behind beast i think.
inner pulsar
Stacks to 20, but the stat increase goes up
terse shuttle
@inner pulsar thanks dude
fading socket
TB or Exsang
inner pulsar
So if you have one that gives +9, and one that gives +11, each stack is 20 of the stat, up to 20 stacks
@fading socket
hushed turtle
It's 5 dps diff lol. TB is easier to use
arctic crow
DDx2 or SB x2
inner pulsar
@arctic crow
formal bear
Yo, guys, a question: After the Suffocation nerf what is a new top-tier azerite bonus?
inner pulsar
@formal bear Bloodmallet:https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination
proven ice
Whatever sims the best
Only run SB if you have two and you're raiding.
Other than that, it's going to be close.
lone junco
the dungeon sims showed sb in M+. I havent laughed that loud in a while.
restive path
What about 3...?
formal bear
Okay, thank you
void pecan
@lone junco how did raid go with SB or whatever you ran
lone junco
complete meh.
I did get a strong orb throw on Zekvoz
50k non crit.
the dmg profile was pretty flat on mother. then 2 good knifes in the last room.
It was nice to be able to turn and throw at an egg. or add. etc
low investment for a 25k-40k hit
bleak jungle
@lone junco What's your ilvl?
distant peak
it just got nerfed
lone junco
349
hazy forge
im guessing it performs 100th percentile because u just put bleeds on everything?
bleak jungle
And are you running 2 or 3 SB?
dense quest
should look at the 1 day one
hazy forge
wait, so what nerf happened?
bleak jungle
Ok
lone junco
with EP/MA/Vig/TB
distant peak
40% redux on SS azerite trait
lone junco
@bleak jungle i got some upgrades in haste and a 355 ditb off the world boss.
shrewd bane
guys i don't get it
lone junco
keeps pushing things around.
shrewd bane
is it worse to equip two titan trait
?
in raid ofc
or should i keep one titan and 2 ss (i don't have dd)
lone junco
sim it. but I dont think they stack fully
inner pulsar
@shrewd bane The trait stacks, Reorg Array does not
So typically it is best to just have one, but as always, see my name
hazy forge
what nerf happened to sin?
paper gale
anyone know if the rotation changed after the nerf ?
inner pulsar
@hazy forge 40% nerf to damage from Shrouded Suffocation, which was our best trait
final stone
ss went from 1 to 10
inner pulsar
@paper gale Rotation didn't change unless your optimal talents changed and you should be using Master Assassin instead of Subterfuge, or Toxic Blade instead of Exsanguinate. Sim yo self to see your optimal talents
wise whale
whats the opener for masterassasin?
final stone
i still have 2 ss traits and still had great dmg
dense quest
yeh just 40%less dmg
final stone
just not pounding past everyone by miles now haha
need to get me a DD trait tho but Rnjesus hates me
inner pulsar
@wise whale In the pinned SIn guide, the first roation titled "If you don't have SS..." is what you would use
final stone
so theres that haha
slate agate
final stone
@slate agate how many times have you reforged lol
inner pulsar
I don't understand how you folks get that high, I just reforged a piece yesterday and it was 40 gold
final stone
i would look into just getting new pieces haha
wise whale
thx
dense quest
it resets every few days
inner pulsar
You don't need to reforge it to sim it
dense quest
dont reforge after every pull
late niche
reforge is like x2 every time so it goes up quite fast
inner pulsar
It doesn't recent, it goes halves every 3 days
40k reforge would have been the 14th time in 3 days
That is silly
reforging 14 times I mean
keen spruce
I've reforged... 3 times I think since the xpac dropped
solid parrot
went back to sub after superior sim, played it and didnt like the way it felt, back to sin
inner pulsar
You don't need to reforge to sim a new trait
dense quest
you paid 40k to reforge?
solid parrot
i payed 80k to reforge
late niche
the price is too! Just let me reforge whenever I want so I don't have to run a trait that sucks everywhere but in Uldir 😦
inner pulsar
Use Top Gear in raidbots to sim different traits
grim mason
fam thats just wild
solid parrot
at work gotta run in a booth so I dont shamelessly launch wow
terse shuttle
also smells like Master Poisoner may sim better
misty remnant
i'm at 80k
hollow stone
If you pay me half that ill give you advice on not allowing your reforges to get that high. Pst
solid parrot
lol
grim mason
like I said I need receipts for all these claims
dense quest
pay me quarter of that ill sim for you
solid parrot
I had to reforge all 3 pieces and had raid that night and wanted to switch back
a double back reverso of sorts
misty remnant
i will show SS after this mythic
solid parrot
you know im already paying for raidbots
grim mason
yeah I am here all day
inner pulsar
80k reforge is 15 times in 3 days
5 - 10 - 20 - 40 - 80 - 160 - 320 - 640 - 1280 - 2560 - 5120 - 10240 - 20480 - 40960 - 81920 - 163840...
cursive kelp
Looking for a rogue vet that can help me out with a few questions from my logs. If this isnt the right place to ask that i apologize.
wooden island
is stacking archive worth it?
hollow stone
Yea, i get it. Raid az pieces can have better traits than archive/LM for outside of raid but you "should" only need to reforge one at a time...
violet lintel
why does it even get so high lol
hollow stone
Stacking it, no
misty remnant
i hope they change it
inner pulsar
Because you aren't meant to change them like talents
dense quest
you shouldnt have to
solid parrot
hearthing now SS inc
dense quest
even if you felt it was "wrong" that doesnt even get you that high to reforge
hollow stone
Everyone in here is an expert at rogue 🐑
solid parrot
inner pulsar
We don't need a screenshot to prove you reforged more than necessary
violet lintel
yup im expert, fathoms is dumb.
Lol
grim mason
lmao
misty remnant
OUCH
inner pulsar
I'm an expert at telling people to sim themselves
grim mason
what in the entire fuk man why
inner pulsar
wait 6 days and it will be down to 40
grim mason
fam why tho lol
inner pulsar
And learn to use raidbots
solid parrot
lol how many times
do I have to say
I;ve got my simc dump in my email I play with raidbots all day long
grim mason
I know I know i am just lost for words
solid parrot
it was a matter of how the spec was playing not raw sim numbers
hazy forge
why are sims telling me that a third sharpened blades piece makes me LOSE dps?
dense quest
you dont believe it?
solid parrot
I'm not swapping traits and just guessing on target dummies
inner pulsar
Say it all you want, you are doing it wrong, there arent that many talents that change the "feel" of the rotation that you would need to change 14 times
inner pulsar
in 3 days, 14 times in 3 days
storm siren
Still though, shouldn't it just be free
dense quest
I wouldnt pay 1k to reforge
inner pulsar
No
grim mason
it's a gold dump
opaque grotto
You should be able to use a tome to switch them just like talents
grim mason
and to prevent just what he's doing lol
late niche
@opaque grotto YES
storm siren
But hes not really doing anything
opaque grotto
Doesn’t really allow for flexible gameplay
And it’s certainly not convenient to switch mid raid
inner pulsar
It isnt supposed to be
opaque grotto
Only other option is to farm multiple pieces
inner pulsar
It would be akin to saying "Why can't I just switch my Loaded Dice to Galecallers"
And I can, I just need to farm them both
inner pulsar
What?
solid parrot
You used to
dense quest
long time ago
opaque grotto
What if my BIS assa piece happens to have my BIS sub traits on it?
inner pulsar
Bad example, because it is SB in both cases many times
inner pulsar
Ok, lets use it then, so what? What if Loaded Dice is good for Sin, but Galecallers is best for outlaw, what are my options?
opaque grotto
Swap the gear, but those trinkets aren’t dynamic
You can’t change them
You can’t change what galecaller’s does
opaque grotto
But I can change what my azerite chest piece does
tranquil dust
or laser?
opaque grotto
If I pay gold
inner pulsar
That is the intent of traits, the intent is not to change them as often as he is, and I know that, because of the rising cost
solid parrot
lol
inner pulsar
You may disagree with their conclusion, but the intention is obvious
wheat zealot
I have sets for all 3 specs and have had to reforge like twice
opaque grotto
So you’re saying players should be punished for swapping to different specs based on the scenario?
solid parrot
I should have just never spent my gold
tranquil dust
Bois do we have stack archive laser
solid parrot
and just waited till i got another piece my M+ chest or world boss to switch specs
tranquil dust
or SB?
solid parrot
from*
fallen spindle
everyone still using SS for m+?
dense quest
you cant afford the next reforge at that price you spent your savings for those
grim mason
yes @fallen spindle
inner pulsar
But you didnt just switch specs, you went from Sin, to Sub, to Sin, change for raid, and that is still only 9 changes if you had to change all 3 every time
opaque grotto
“Only”
fallen spindle
fasho thanks @grim mason
solid parrot
Had old pieces w/ SS on em that I used to use for outlaw
dense quest
cant believe you saw the price 80k and press ok
wheat zealot
tranquil dust
Boys what traits do we stack?
solid parrot
I went from sub to sin, then some pieces from other random 340s to SS
solid parrot
then back to sub on the 370 stuff, and back again to sin
inner pulsar
In the end it doesn't matter, the system is not set up to change them every time you change specs
calm barn
azerite gear is a f mess
opaque grotto
They should make high level pieces more accessible then
solid parrot
I mean I dont intend on doing this repeatedly, I wasn't claiming something was wrong with the way it is, just saying it happened
inner pulsar
...............
opaque grotto
If they intend on you NOT changing them
solar zealot
Af
grim mason
no biggie @solid parrot
dont think our intention is it birate you
just insane that all
yeah teh Azerite system is trash imo
obsidian loom
If he can spend 80 grand on a reforge, Then I do not feel bad at all about spending the same on gnome prostitutes in gadgetzan
unborn leaf
@grim mason Maybe he has that LeBron contract
grim mason
wow
solid parrot
lol I didn't get that vibe except for did you sim yo self asking did you sim yo self, appropriately given the name I suppose.
grim mason
hahaha
all good
just know we aint here for that
but what server you on i need a small loan for 200k
dense quest
I am just in awe that you saw 80k and press ok
inner pulsar
I am, I am here to point out ridiculous things people say and do
inner pulsar
And to tell people to sim themselves
serene glacier
they should definitely make azerite gear drop from M+ so you can actually farm it if they want to change them every other day
dense quest
could of bought a wow token
solid parrot
My perspective is I can make 2.5 wow tokens in an hour doing a side hustle, so rather than run around mining or doing nothing in boralus I can go do that snag some tokens and life goes on
dense quest
man thats $15 you spent to reforge
grim mason
whats everyone running in M+ perssonaly I am going 1ss, 1DD and 1 LM
arctic isle
my respec hasnt gone over 20g, how do u even do that
unborn leaf
@grim mason I think 3 ss is still bis
inner pulsar
@solid parrot To be fair though, I did assume you had a problem with the system, so if I was mistaken in that I apologize
solid parrot
1SS 1Archive & 1 vial (370 vest of veiled griffon ;/)
Oh no I mean it makes sense, I'm just a compulsive respecer
dense quest
lol clearly
unborn leaf
@grim mason I don’t trust sims when it comes to M+. Too many variables.
inner pulsar
@solid parrot You should probably reforge that chest, that trait is shit..... 😛
grim mason
true
solid parrot
the alternative tho
unborn leaf
pull size, fight length, etc. It also assumes you blow all cooldowns
uncut dragon
Did the shrouded suffocation nerf knock it off the top spot for azerite gear?
dense quest
yes
solar zealot
2x SS and 1x Archive cause I got nothing better than the 370 shoulders. Sims best for m+ and raid
inner pulsar
The general consensus is that 3xSS would be the most optimal for higher mythic plus content
Archive will quickly surpass that thrid SS with more stacks of Reorg Array, I would wager as soon as next week for most
unborn leaf
I have 2 ss with 1 370 blightborne and my 3ss at 340 was still slightly better. I ran two 10 freeholds in a row to test it with the same group and pulls.
inner pulsar
However, I would say that if you had 2xSS and 1 Uldir trait, it would not be worth it to constantly switch the last trait for raids and m+. Though worth is subjective I guess.
unborn leaf
the difference was only like .2K overall though. So thats within the margin of error.
solid parrot
hmm this reinforces 3SS, 4 mobs light movement. Not sure best way to sim trash though
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kwjEnBngaGbcboexJZuMug
also light movement on 60 sec fight since it says 85 seconds not sure that interaction
arctic isle
sim ur char to sim trash 4head
strange python
princess running his mouth again
solid parrot
fort week dats gone be wot makes keys
inner pulsar
Fort and Teeming
elder trench
does rezan's fury trait proc single target only or ir does singletarget?
inner pulsar
If someone had access to 3 SS traits and an Uldir trait, I'd be interested to see the difference sim difference between 3xSS and 2xSS + 1xUldir with reorg array stacks set to 0
elder trench
proc aoe*`
inner pulsar
I guess I could use gear finder to build that out
solar zealot
That's what I was attempting
solid parrot
I have the above but archive and it's on 370 and my SS is on 340
you want my simc output?
solar zealot
Can't fucking find any SS shoulders 340+
last cedar
Damn sharpened blades is better than SS now? I wonder what it's like in practice.. gonna have to run a high key and compare the two
solar zealot
Or at least get any to drop
vast edge
@inner pulsar isnt the reorg array only for the raid? so 3x SS trait will still be bis in m+ even if you can get it leveled up to 10?
jolly notch
what all does master poisoner effect?
inner pulsar
I'm building the profile real quick
dusky pebble
is venom rush that bad?
solar zealot
Yes
vast edge
iv discussed it with my mates and ppl online.. it was always fun to get some raid gear/tier sets and then smash m+ trying to get higher and higher keys.. but with blizzard making it so you cant farm your bis azerite from m+ and the bis azerite traits from the raid only works in the raid.. it kinda makes no sense to me..
keen spruce
You don't need BIS to push high keys
woven dragon
Small indie company
keen spruce
vast edge
i dont NEED bis.. i just want to consitently farm azerite pieces that are higher then 340.. like the relics in legion
keen spruce
but like... no one can
so it doesn't make a difference
the gear ceiling is always artificial
or arbitrary*
as long as it's applied equally it doesn't matter
inner pulsar
Second set is 2xSS + 1xArchive, 3rd set is 3xSS
Whoops
Haha
Used my outlaw simc
vast edge
blizzard could have might aswell made the azerite raid only loot and only work in raid.. cus at this point it feels like that the way they want it to be
mental pumice
Can someone help me figuring out why im doing only 8k DPS, whilest raidbots is showing 11.3K?
inner pulsar
knew something didnt look right
solid parrot
Raidbots showing 11.3k w/ raid buffs?
keen spruce
Sims are only if you play omptimally on a non-moving target with 100% uptime
undone cairn
@mental pumice 8k dps in raids or dummies?
solid field
The 11.3k is probably raid buffs
solid parrot
and you showing 8k w/ no buffs?
mental pumice
8K on the raid dummy
undone cairn
sim without raid buffs
alpine grotto
what we like on rankings now?
keen spruce
fine
last cedar
Is there anyway to get the profile for herodamages dungeon sim?
keen spruce
probably still topish
candid jasper
Higher than sub?
keen spruce
most likely
If you adjusted your traits after the nerfds most people only lost a couple hundred dps
mental pumice
Raidbot was indeed showing with buffs and all. Without it's 9.3, which is still 1.3K more then im doing atm
undone cairn
are you guys using blightborne in m+ now?
stuck shuttle
@last cedar those sims are skewed heavily
as they consider chain pulling
and no stealthing in between
@undone cairn SS of same level should still be better
warm harness
So, the resources indicate that SS should be much worse now, but my personal sims still show it outperforming double dose of same ilvl and coming at a tie with Archive thats 15 ilvl higher. Has anyone else found any similar results?
fallow estuary
Yo my sin friends
solid parrot
make sure you're using nightly
fallow estuary
how is assa since the SS nerf?
solid parrot
and not weekly
strange python
its fine
fallow estuary
i REALLY want to play sin
fallow estuary
but my sub sims like 16.1k
undone cairn
you can
strange python
it seems all the specs are pretty close rn
fallow estuary
and my sin like 14k?
inner pulsar
Now that is right, first is 3xSS, secound set is 2xSS +1xArchive
strange python
play what you are best as
drowsy summit
That’s because SS was way too good, bringing it down 40% still makes it the best for mythic plus
strange python
and ofc enjoy
inner pulsar
With zero Reorg Array stacks, so simming outside of uldir, in m+ for instanve
fallow estuary
i just can't
tropic furnace
I'm simming best with 1x SS 1x DD and scent of blood
tropic furnace
due to high azerite ilvl armors
fallow estuary
i do now - but i enjoy sin more :<
drowsy summit
Sub is dog shit for anything but raid
delicate gull
Is Mfd not taken in sub anymore?
fallow estuary
i don't care about m+ anymore tho
rich wren
What’s that like
undone cairn
wait which achievement
rich wren
I also prefer sin more, screw sub 😑
drowsy summit
Rogue isn’t in a good place for this tier raid tho
fallow estuary
we abused the shit out of sin tho
2x sin rogues
both tirple SS
20k overall dps x)
delicate gull
Easy what traits you got, I can’t see on mobile
keen spruce
Outlaw and Assa were the top 2 dps in Uldir through last week
spice surge
all rogue speccs are in a good place
drowsy summit
Hence the nerf lol
keen spruce
er Sub and Assa
spice surge
wtf are you on about
fallow estuary
@delicate gull 1x BitS | 1x inevi and 1x matrix for buff
delicate gull
All 370+?
dense quest
thats my current setup also
fallow estuary
1x 385 | 1x 370 | 1x 355
calm grail
Hai guys new rogue here can someone tell me what the best spec is? Also can someone tell me when to use toxic blade and where I can find a best in slot list? I don't sim.
undone cairn
i sim 14k sub and 13.5k assa but idk i don't like playing sub
past lily
How are you guys opening on aoe pulls? Garroting everything and than picking st target?
solid parrot
3 garrotes w/ ss and 3ish ruptures depending on how fast stuff is dying then prio
calm grail
Ggg CT rupture all the things
stuck shuttle
@calm grail hi guys can you tell me how to do the most dps while I do no type of research on my own?
calm grail
Yeah that
stuck shuttle
Hi guys, new rogue here, can you sim my character for me?
solid parrot
P sure outlaw snake eyes spec only has 3 buttons, could go that direction
dunno if still a thing
exotic abyss
For m+ snek Eyes is not the best
solid parrot
we're talking least amount effort for max results though
past lily
So it isn't worth Garrote, Rupture, Garrote for the empower off Elaborate Planning? on ST
obsidian ridge
and keep 100% CT uptime on everything
solid parrot
I think a part of that was getting a pandemic garrote for exsang, not sure if it applied generally
chilly marsh
did they fixed the SS bug ?
inner pulsar
Actually, Matrix alone doesnt suck
chilly marsh
where the 4° garrote reseted SS on all targets?
obsidian ridge
not fixed
inner pulsar
68 dps lower that 3xSS on ST, the assumed Best Traits outside of Uldir
obsidian ridge
blizz only nerfs and doesnt fix. reeeeee
solid parrot
Serious question though in M+, has anyone run into pace issues where there are no breaks in combat to restealth?
seems like a big loss running SS
undone cairn
yes
calm grail
That's a tank thing.
humble igloo
obsidian ridge
just get a good tank that knows whats up
past lily
Yeah that's when I blow my vanish inbetween boss pulls
sick monolith
Tank just needs to chill for a second
grim mason
silly tanks not taking into account there is a rogue in their group
I normally just ask why the chain pull
obsidian ridge
you should almost keep vanish on cooldown though tbh
its your strongest aoe cooldown with triple ss
solid parrot
Yeah I was vanishing
grim mason
then i sit 4th in dps till they ask why my dmg shit
solid parrot
or trying to hang back for a sec then stepping in
obsidian ridge
6 empowered garrotes do some serious deeps
vestal geyser
We still want shrouded suffocation or is archive of titans prefered?
solid parrot
Yeah I wonder if waiting to drop combat between pulls would have an impact on timer though
vs loss in dps
obsidian ridge
no. chainpulling generally sucks
pine panther
Archive doesn’t stack right? No point in having it in 2 pieces ??
grim mason
there is no reason to chain pull
inner pulsar
@pine panther Trait stacks, reorg array does not
past lily
^
obsidian ridge
if you are out of combat for a short moment, healer can start drinking while the pull is going on etc. saving a lot of time actually. and if you run SS chainpulling basically eliminates one dps from your group
grim mason
in my experience we loose genraly to chainpulling and wiping on things we didn tneed to
solid parrot
I think the healer drink argument is strong enough
pine panther
Oh I thought laser matrix and archive don’t
solid parrot
It was only a 7 or something where I felt this, could have also been that
calm grail
Fire him Getty
grim mason
lol
solid parrot
on tyrannical week*
trash was truly trash, but still yeah plenty of strong arguments to not do that. Would def speak up if happens again in pug.
calm grail
To be fair though, I hope you're spamming the stealth button.
solid parrot
thanks
calm grail
The second you think combat is over
solid parrot
my WA fade on combat exit
calm grail
Same.
solid parrot
was never happening, also yeah def trying to restealth obv want that padded dps
warm mesa
hey guys, i'm making the switch over from sub to assassination, i was wondering if i should follow the talent build on icy veins
i have 1x SS, and i have to look for the rest
alriught
thanks
lol
dense quest
that was effective
strange python
nice attempt boys clean
wild zodiac
hello, how do you guys feel about method running a number of assn rogues in their ghuun kill?
obsidian ridge
dont give a shit cuz i will never see ghunn in mythic
median dagger
hey friends! i have a 380 frenetic corpuscle trinket from hc uldir! it seems to sim like horseshit but recently got hotfixed.. anyone know if it's useful?
past lily
I run it but it still barely outsims 355 trinkets from m+
inner pulsar
@median dagger Useful for scrap
golden junco
what is CT+
obsidian ridge
crimson tempest
golden junco
ahh alright
obsidian ridge
the aoe bleed in the 100 talent row
inner pulsar
@wild zodiac they ran zero sin rogues I though
I thought they only had 4 melee period, war, dk, monk and dh
wild zodiac
zero is a number
"hello, how do you guys feel about method running a number of assn rogues in their ghuun kill?
solid parrot
yeah lol
keen spruce
for assa rogues
keen spruce
In the baggs for ilvl
solid parrot
^
keen spruce
still using a 345 galecallers
keen spruce
I was helping gear my friend's alts
solid parrot
30 pages of greens on restore
keen spruce
one's a brewmaster ones a havoc
solid parrot
from rerolling haste boots to crit on sub
jovial aurora
Is sb our best trait now?
half flume
so did SS get the nerf hard? bloodmallet is showing it 9th??
solid parrot
V tragic
keen spruce
we all submitted tickets 
solid parrot
GM's tell you to kick rocks?
solid parrot
oh, there's hope
jovial aurora
Right now what is our best azerite trait that isn’t one of the Uldir ones?