that 3x SS?
#assassination
daring imp
fresh abyss
when simming should i play with the settings at all?
the patchwerk etc
or just default
violet lintel
i only have 3 SS so ya
fresh abyss
(i have no clue what i am doing)
daring imp
for pure st purposes just stick to patchwerk @fresh abyss
halcyon glacier
@violet lintel how do you set it to not use traits in the sim? or do you need items you have no trait selected
fresh abyss
but st isn't really important at all rn
ripe dock
Okay so if I'm running MA, and 2 mins into the fight I have TB on CD for another 10 seconds but Vendetta Vanish Just came up, what should I do? Should I have saved TB? Should I Vanish without TB, or Save Vendetta Vanish?
daring imp
why not? @_@'
violet lintel
@halcyon glacier its on gear compare
zinc cliff
peak crater
@ripe dock Pretty sure the APL uses it all on CD even with MA
daring imp
why isn't st really important at all rn
radiant locust
🤔
peak crater
Yes, click "full HTML report"
daring imp
well you should've specified the sim was aimed at m+ then
peak crater
ugh why is MA simming higher for me @_@
daring imp
the environment is different when comparing to raiding
hexed root
anyone have any advice when im 361ilvl simming at 12-13k? Can't parse like everyone else with the gear i have it feels like 😦
tame owl
do we still play subterfuge without SS?
azure karma
I simmed every possible talents and traits build and i replaced all of them. Any advice for opener and talents for me? I did check the pins and site's blog pages.
peak crater
Just
pure sparrow
i mean, we have no idea what you have right now to tell you an opener lol
peak crater
do a patchwerk sim and add:
raid_events+=/stun,first=48,cooldown=60,duration=12
raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,cooldown=60,duration=44
raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,cooldown=60,duration=46
raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,cooldown=60,duration=48
halcyon glacier
@violet lintel https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9Jxu4sjLQPHAqAyAvTkQeX here's what mine looks like w/ no traits
peak crater
for m+
halcyon glacier
10 ilvls higher only 1k dmg higher lol
peak crater
or whatever they're using over at herodamage for m+
edgy latch
How do you play the opener with SB?
Is it worth holding vendetta for a bit to get fat poisoned knife
onyx wind
finally 370 boon
quasi steppe
is there something wrong with the opener on assa with SS trait?
daring imp
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
glacial steppe
i feel like my overall dps is much lower with TB and 0 SF even tho it sims higher
quasi steppe
shouldn't it be garotte and garotte? instead of garotte, rupture and garotte?
ripe dock
Where can I see the APL or rotations on this page?
pure sparrow
you want pandemic rojj
sleek iron
is tyrannical still on?
daring imp
@quasi steppe you want garrote to last as long as possible
pure sparrow
someone pin that lol
daring imp
wheat zealot
sand canyon
not even kidding
sand canyon
no its not tyr but some bosses are buffe with fortified add bosses etc
for examlpe kr
long hill
3SS
true rapids
read the emotes
onyx wind
lmao
strange python
@unkempt escarp standard answer here is "sim yourself" for those questions 😃
sterile wolf
😄
unkempt escarp
Yeah, i've noticed
violet lintel
you simmers so silly
:3
sand canyon
i just did 45k on 4 targets without pot and dice fucking op tr
now i can go sleep with a smile 😄
white seal
Is SS nerfed??
unkempt escarp
I legit think think those kids spamming the "simself" reaction shouldnt even be here, they aint here to "discuss" shit
lol
quasi steppe
@daring imp feels like running with exa there will burn my combopoints into nothing since i have 3 stacked SS
stuck shuttle
Because most of the time, thats the answer @unkempt escarp
strange python
op tr?
daring imp
@unkempt escarp now that ss got nerfed if you have some huge dick ilvl azerite piece instead of doing all 340's you really wanna sim it because it might be an increase, or just stick to 3x ss because it is safer and kinda the ONLY aoe trait we have
inner pulsar
You arent here to discuss anything either, you wanted someone to give you an answer that either you could have spent 2 seconds looking up, or if you wanted the real answer, it is simming yo self
violet lintel
i still think it just be amusing to see if its possible to do a +10 in a group with no traits at all just to see if the system truly is bologna 😃
wheat zealot
Kids always want the 🥄
neon cedar
Did they at least fix the SS bug ?
strange python
why is the sin discord always the most toxic out of all class discords LUL
neon cedar
cmon
torpid jackal
tl;ds too lazy didn't sim
inner pulsar
Check yo self before you wreck yo self
zenith portal
sucks that SoB is absolute garbage unless stuff stays alive for 60s+ and 3t+
daring imp
@strange python poisons m8
sacred ore
guys i should at least have one SS on my azerite armors?
gilded oasis
Toxic is our class fantasy hello
unkempt escarp
How about just ANSWERING a simple question, i don't care about that extra 2 DPS, i don't give a shit and neither should you cuz the chance of you being amongst the top 10 in the world is the same chance as you ever getting laid.
Anyway, peace.
stuck shuttle
laterrr
fading spade
Despite the nerf to SS I still managed to parse over 90% on mother and fetid and vectis H.
torpid jackal
bye felicia
strange python
how are you guys simming for high keys?
daring imp
teeming, 4~6 bosses ~40s
wheat zealot
fading spade
So I'm not to sad about it and wow that guy rage quit hard af
strange python
just did a 99% on mother, but pug was shit
wheat zealot
He aint done
strange python
ty ongbak
unkempt escarp
Not the emote, the lack of brains
wheat zealot
stuck shuttle
THE LACK OF BRAINS
unkempt escarp
I mean, its for discussion
inner pulsar
Also, if people spent 2 minutes reading the chat before asking their question, I dont even mean scrolling up to read, I can almost guarantee it will be answered
stuck shuttle
SIM MY CHAR FOR ME
ornate prawn
How can i sim myself if i dont have the traits i want to sim , i mean i want to know what traits i should aim when i go mm+ but when we ask what is better u say sim yourself, and i cant sim since i dont have the triats
stuck shuttle
U LACK BRAINS
inner pulsar
@unkempt escarp Thought you left bro, sim your exit
wheat zealot
Sim your brain
onyx wind
lmao
wheat zealot
daring imp
[1:40 PM] Xavi: Whats the best trait stack for M+ Assassin atm?
stuck shuttle
LOOOOOOL
stuck shuttle
"Lack of brains"
asking questions here
nicee
triggered by an emote
you have bigger problems
fading spade
If this guys gonna be a toxic asshat can the <@&224906552333697025> do something?
unkempt escarp
Haha, god you guys really are a bunch of fucking virgins. THANKS to the guys who actually provided a good answer though, you're actually giving this group a "reason" to exist ;P
stuck shuttle
LOOOOOOOOL
wheat zealot
onyx wind
hahhaahha
dense quest
lool
barren hound
If we're fucking, how are we virgins 🤔
wheat zealot
vestal abyss
im literally giggling out loot on the train
onyx wind
🤔
keen inlet
Enough.
vestal abyss
loiud
brave gyro
Can't we all just get along? 
vestal abyss
loud
daring imp
but okay, SS is still the best stacking trait because it's the only good one for aoe we have, even with the nerfs, but i've been in groups with sin rogues that over the entire dg did just as much dmg or a lil' higher than me even w/o SS because they had god azerite pieces ( 370+ while i only had 3x 340 SS ) and made way moar dmg on high key bosses
stuck shuttle
those are the worst types. Come in asking for help, get mad when its not the spoon fed answer they want
surreal rivet
is archive good in m+?
wheat zealot
daring imp
if you really don't see the point in "simming yourself" then we can't help you
wheat zealot
violet lintel
🥔
thorny basin
W/MA talent, APL seems to tell me to Vanish when initial MA buff wears off and rupture is not in refresh range. Thinking I want to try and stick 2 Envenoms into it. or maybe an Envenom + empowered PK with my setup. What do you think?
keen inlet
@unkempt escarp This is spec chat, it's not off-topic, and that's not the kind of attitude or behavior that flies here. Take it back to twitch, or just leave RH if you can't follow basic rules.
surreal rivet
@wheat zealot that doesn't answer my question nerd
wheat zealot
Just memeing
brave gyro
Should I use my daggers for SIn? 
ripe dock
Is it defo not worth double casting garrote after vanish if specced subt without SS? Feels like a waste?
vestal abyss
@daring imp For M+ yes, for ST no
I am aiming for 3xSS for M+ and 2xSB 1 Laser matrix for ST
wheat zealot
unkempt escarp
@keen inlet My pleasure 😉
vestal abyss
@ripe dock Garrote still does 80% more damage out of stealth no?
neon cedar
yes
ripe dock
Oh shit yeah
surreal rivet
guess i gotta keep my SS pieces for m+
daring imp
@vestal abyss i meant for m+, overall on any m+ you should want 3x SS because it's consistent damage on all the trash, you last way more on trash than on bosses, of course, given you have a halfway decent group
ripe dock
I'm stoopid, ty
daring imp
but you definitely can make up the "not having 3x SS" on your gear by dealing moar dmg on bosses
fading spade
Better stupid than an asshole @ripe dock
keen inlet
Anybody else?
neon cedar
So i'm not sure the answer was for me with all that troll flood, did blizzard at least fix the SS bug?
keen inlet
That I missed?
neon cedar
or we still doing only SS garrot?
keen inlet
tbh I don't have time to scroll through the past 15 mins of chat
daring imp
doesn't look liek they did, @neon cedar
fading spade
Ty @keen inlet for handling that guy
vestal abyss
No just him afaik
violet lintel
Imma just stay 3 SS and play the game. 👌
fading spade
He was the only issue
brave gyro
Woaw, i guess everyone here is specced toxic blade 🤔
ripe dock
I'm simming 50dps higher with MA but I don't think I'll bother using it tonight 🤔
neon cedar
ty @daring imp i suppose nerfing it is more important than fixing it Keepo
glacial steppe
Is 3x SF still worth for M+?
vestal abyss
Single target 3xSB sims highest at 385 ilvl by a significant margin btw. For future reference
daring imp
@neon cedar but of course lul
fading spade
I find tb harder to play
vestal abyss
What in the holy heavens is SF
fading spade
I dont quite have the haste for it
stuck shuttle
@brave gyro im not
daring imp
@glacial steppe sf?
knotty cedar
i dont have a prblem with ST but i am reaaally not confident/comfortable simming for m+ and i dont have x2 SS
late niche
who thought it was a good idea to put Exsanguinate on that awkward 45 sec CD btw?
glacial steppe
SS*
vestal abyss
@late niche It was Xavi
stuck shuttle
@late niche it would be busted on 1 min CD
inner pulsar
@vestal abyss Ha
daring imp
@vestal abyss i've been messing with 2x SB + 1x SS for st this week, been doing halfway fine i guess, still gotta get the hang of the pooling a bit more but looks great, can't drop the 3rd SB at all ç_ç
torpid jackal
it's all Ion's fault
pure epoch
How does assa look in m+ after the nerfs
neon cedar
@sand canyon you are going Mastery > crit this week ?
calm bronze
Crimson temp or Vial better for M+?
ripe dock
That could defo go both ways tho
glacial steppe
@sand canyon but what stat did you drop for 45% mastery
stuck shuttle
crimson @calm bronze
ripe dock
and my WA is showing as empowered from stealth without SS
solar zealot
23% haste is now finally telling me mastery is higher prio and that is with 20% crit. Is this about the same you guys are getting for sims?
sand canyon
@neon cedar mastery is super good, haste is overrated
daring imp
for m+ maybe drop haste
strange python
haste
sand canyon
if u are good at doting u dont feel it
brave gyro
Let me rephrase. I guess everyone here is specced in 
TOXIC blade
calm bronze
ty
sand canyon
just ramps up a bit slower
but blast way more
u drop vers haste
obssl
i have 5% haste
neon cedar
@sand canyon but you use to play Crit > Mastery if i'm correct ?
late niche
5% haste monkaS
sand canyon
no
fading spade
Im still specced exang @brave gyro
sand canyon
i go for both
wheat zealot
5% haste 
daring imp
jesus
keen inlet
Grain of salt, folks
sand canyon
especially this week it works way better
glacial steppe
and what about ST? doesnt it feel garbo with 5% haste
solar zealot
Really?
sand canyon
have to go tho talk to you later in 5h
solar zealot
30%?
sand canyon
@glacial steppe
no on st i do like 2k less but on aoe 5k+ more so?
u just have to pool more
and since have bl u blast in hard its only fortified week
u just pool more and do obvsl bit less st but blast aoe
ornate prawn
just killed zekvoz in lfr, with 2 sb annd my garrot was my 2nd dps
glacial steppe
guess im gonna give it a try
solar zealot
I would feel like a turtle at 5% haste.
daring imp
ty for the feedback man, i've been having issues to get specific m+ gear, i'm like equally split in haste/crit/mastery
glacial steppe
i feel like a turtle that didnt made it to the water right now
solar zealot
Lmao
brave gyro
idk if its that worth on lower keys tho, mobs should last a few sec 😄
fringe oxide
Do we know if Blizzard is aware of the SS garrote bug? Any blue acknowledgement?
stuck shuttle
im sure they know
daring imp
@fringe oxide maybe it's not a bug, it's a feature?
stuck shuttle
they just dont care enough to fix it
knotty cedar
I submitted a bug ingame
inner pulsar
Working as intended
neon cedar
they care more about nerfing it that fixing it which is LUL
fringe oxide
I'm just worried we're waiting on something to be fixed that isn't even on their radar.
stuck shuttle
yeah its probably intended at this point
inner pulsar
Adds complexity to your rotation
daring imp
lul
fringe oxide
Haha. So I'm gonna guess the actual answer is no.
We don't know that they're aware of it for sure.
ripe dock
@vestal abyss No I just tested and with subterfuge and no SS, stealth is 100% empowering my garrote and not when casted outside of stealth
inner pulsar
SS working correctly is not part of our class fantasy
glacial steppe
lmao
violet lintel
what really happens is your character gets strained garroting more than 3 peoples necks ofc
inner pulsar
Run out of wire
hollow stone
Its a known unknown. We know that we dont know if they know
inner pulsar
Gotta use your shoestring on number 4
glacial steppe
Fantasywise its ok. Im a fat panda and after garroting 3 targest im to exhausted anyways
keen inlet
Immersion > everything, Shi
alpine garden
Whats the best raidbots sim setting to get m+ numbers?
violet lintel
but i dont have shoes, just paws 😛
inner pulsar
Doesn't matter, next patch Assassin is being changed to Triage Rogue, Rogue healing spec
ripe dock
With Stealth https://gyazo.com/5a6a9200d539474e52de81beb4c20d5f
inner pulsar
Saw it in the patch notes right under where they talked about Feral Voltron
violet lintel
A rogue healing spec.. coat daggers in crimson vial, stab your friends in the back
hollow stone
Gimme dat energy based healer ive wanted since they first announced monks
ripe dock
Without stealth https://gyazo.com/931363945149fde0ac77dbc62d13d730
This is with 0 shrouded suffocation
and subt ofc
inner pulsar
Garrote is becoming Tourniquet, HoT
But if you don't kill the mob in 2 minutes, you die
glacial steppe
does TB works with DD?
ripe dock
So is it defo not double casting garrote without SS?:
blazing cobalt
is 3x SS still prob our best/one of our best bets for m+?
faint vault
Check Herodamage
inner pulsar
@ripe dock I don't understand your question
strange python
yes tb ma gets great sims with dd
hollow stone
If we're just speculating, yeah, i think 3ss is still good for m+
lunar current
do you just use TB on cd or should i pay attention to anything like get 5cp's ready before TB cd to envenom?
faint vault
According to Blood, it's not bis.
glacial steppe
TB gives CP
ripe dock
Is it defo not worth double casting garrote after vanish if specced subt without SS? Feels like a waste?**
proven ice
Tb asap - ignore everything else
hollow stone
Pool some energy when you see tb coming up unless you have other things to maintain. Then use on cd
inner pulsar
lunar current
okay ty guys
inner pulsar
Subt buffs Garrote on it's own, so yes, worth it
primal violet
@lunar current assuming start at 0 combo points, i mutilate, if i crit and get 3, i tb and envenom, if my first mutiliate didnt crit, then i cast a 2nd mutilitate, then tb, then envenom
inner pulsar
The question you ... damn @hollow stone beat me to it
proven ice
The apl only prioritizes rupture over tb with no other criteria.
primal violet
i like 1 SS for extra combo + it makes the garrote from stealth danker
ripe dock
The guide should be changed then?
glacial steppe
im gonna go with 3x DD for raid because fuck SB
hollow stone
The shadows are pushing mythic progression. Give them time. They will update im sure
strange python
get a archive aswell tho shisaera
hollow stone
They are more worried about their dmg than yours atm
inner pulsar
Yes, the guide should probably be updated to reflect the difference between the Subt rotation and the MA rotation
But since people don't read the guide and just ask the question here, nbd
glacial steppe
@strange python i wish i had one
strange python
@glacial steppe f in chat to pay respect..... ❤
ripe dock
Well I sim higher with MA, but only by 50dps - and it feels so much easier to make mistakes with that 3second window, never mind I don't even 100% sure about optimal usage during second vanish
inner pulsar
TLDR: It is still worth GRG in Vanish when running Subterfuge , but you should check if Subterfuge is actually the optimal talent for you by simming yo self
hollow stone
Yup
tropic crypt
Sorry I'm returning to rogue after a really long time, do we run deadly/deadly poison, or what? I didn't see the answer in the FAQ
Or does it matter what's on your 2nd
glacial steppe
deadly/crippling depression
alpine garden
Blessed child
hollow stone
Damn. It has been long if youre asking about poisons per weapon lol
glacial steppe
poison*
tropic crypt
Yea.. It's been a while
latent agate
opener for exang?
tropic crypt
I think TBC was the last time
latent agate
ty
hollow stone
Poisons apply to you as a buff now
inner pulsar
Alright, lunch time, yall keep up the good fight. Sim yo selves
hollow stone
You dont apply them to weapons
So you just use deadly
And it applies to both weaps
ripe dock
Assa rogue applies poison to himself these days LOL
alpine garden
Its how you build up an immunity
violet lintel
it puts the poison on the skin or it gets the sim again
heavy haven
I can't decide which spec to roll with for my rogue in BfA, how's assassin fairing in BFA raiding/M+? are you having fun with it?
tropic crypt
Ok thanks guys, cheers
surreal rivet
sucks that now that im not running SS TB became better again
vale scroll
with my gear and rotation there is llike no difference in specs
keen spruce
Day 2 without SS: I've finally gotten used to a single garrote opener. Still not sure if I should be using vanish envenom or vanish rupture. using Toxic Blade over exang is taking a bit of adjustment as well. DPS hasn't suffered a big loss, but things are feeling much more legion-like.
surreal rivet
was really liking exsang
brittle juniper
Options on dooms wake? Yay or nay
vale scroll
well maybe cause is suck with some specs more then others
surreal rivet
@keen spruce sums it up
viral juniper
is there an option where i can sim all possible talents for my cha to get the best results?
strange python
Sure is
viral juniper
or just the talent compare where i have to do it manuelly
strange python
Oh well yeah that is what I meant
hollow stone
Manuel
tranquil wave
Is sharpened blades x2 with one archive the best
hollow stone
Manuel is a good friend
gilded oasis
Use simpermut and the actual simcraft app
alpine garden
What like getting hit with a frying pan?
strange python
Manuel is over worked leave him alone
viral juniper
man thats some hard work
opaque grotto
Then use SS in m+
dusty crow
so the new opener, we just garotte once then what?
opaque grotto
You’re allowed to change gear
shy mica
Not inside anymore 😦
mental fiber
@keen spruce which traits are you using?
opaque grotto
Yes but you can be like “I’m on my way to a dungeon, time to change gear!”
shy mica
If playing the MA DD build, reckon mastery shoots up in value?
alpine garden
I got some 355 azerite with sob and ditb and opx2 so... guess I'ma use that?
opaque grotto
I’m using 3x DD and haste/crit are still my best stats
keen spruce
@mental fiber One Uldir trait, one Rezan's Fury, one dagger in the back
lunar current
any idea when to pop dark iron dwarf racial in opener?
keen spruce
the not-laser matrix one
strange python
4cp TB -> vanish -> envenom -> MfD (if specced) -> envenom -> continue mute and enven om SHM♿♿PS
long hill
@opaque grotto in raid is better 3 DD or 2 and Laser
keen spruce
thanks istea
alpine garden
DD?
opaque grotto
Well I don’t have laser so idk
strange python
Are you M+'ers staying SS?
stuck shuttle
@opaque grotto what opener are you using with 3xDD?
opaque grotto
I assume laser is best
mental fiber
Archive
opaque grotto
G > Mut > Rupt > TB > vanish
surreal rivet
back where I was pre nerf https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mVHnF4odJk7qLaqWndUTeR
gray shuttle
What is SoB???
opaque grotto
And TB
Fuck lemme just rewrite it
G > Mut > Rupt > vendetta > Tb > vanish
@stuck shuttle
stuck shuttle
are you still using sub?
stuck shuttle
MA?
strange python
Master assassin
stuck shuttle
no i was asking if hes using MA
lunar current
when should i use dark iron dwarf racial in opener?
gentle hornet
Are sims pretty accurate in general? I.e it’s telling me to use my 370 meticulous scheming shoulders over my 340 DD. Is it just the raw stat boost? I know sims are to the T as far as when abilities are used and what not. Personally on dummies I feel like I’m doing less with the 370’s than 340’s with better traits.
opaque grotto
Tb after vanish doesn’t really make sense to me
lone junco
50% crit for 3 sec. tb hits really hard and. Tb mut env. Is likely 5cp env.
gentle hornet
Blizzards said they don’t want people (i.e me) forgoing using a 30ilvl higher gear for a trait so I get the nerfs. Do I trust trust the sims to show me da way?
lone junco
@gentle hornet yes.
opaque grotto
Sure but I feel like 4 CP from mut + DD damage would be better than a TB crit
lone junco
If your sims are proper fight length and settings. And buffs. And fight styles.
opaque grotto
Like you can MUT > env > Mut
kind walrus
why am i so energy starved as assassination. after my opening and rupture/garrote i have no energy left
dim cedar
Because mut costs 50 energy
opaque grotto
@kind walrus because you’re playing assass
gentle hornet
@lone junco I’ve just been leaving the Raidbots top gear sims settings alone (so seems like patchwork, 1 boss, 4-6 min or something?) every now and then I’ll change to 3 boss light movement for AOE
lone junco
@opaque grotto I agree it might be wonky. I was working with 1ss tho. Was thinking. Garrote rupture mut vendetta vanish tb env mut. Either way. 1env.
But. Tb crit is almost equal to an env crit. (?) and the 2cp gain over spend.
astral hound
@surreal rivet is Bloodmallet just super wrong about fathoms?
lone junco
We saw a micro tuning of the shoulder open in legion. And ma. Is shitty and short.
opaque grotto
I hate MA
astral hound
weird that its better than ur loaded dice with +40 agi in it
lone junco
@gentle hornet Raid standard is 1t patchwerk. 5 min. With raid buffs. M+ is different.
astral hound
m+ SSx3 still nice?
vague ledge
what skill build performs the best atm?
woven bane
is 3x SB worth? or 2x SB 1x SS or just take whats simming best
hollow stone
If only rogues brought something else to m+ than just dmg 🤔
hollow stone
Dont do it
keen spruce
we bring clippling poison @hollow stone 
opaque grotto
Mythic mythrax is gonna be aidz
hollow stone
Make them reroll mage
astral hound
go hunter mage kinda meh imo
true ingot
opaque grotto
We have 5 hunters
keen spruce
and shroud
astral hound
free loot
opaque grotto
We’re legit like all melee
5 hunters
A mage
And a DH
Lmao
Oh and a warlock
hollow stone
@keen spruce omg. Wild that we do more than just dps 🙃
surreal rivet
do sims on wowprogress count stacks on archive?
lethal jungle
Is lesser matrix worth it in m+
ripe dock
@lone junco with MA is it worth saving TB just before vendetta vanish come off cd then?
hollow stone
Sim your laser piece WITHOUT array stacks and you can answer your own question
ripe dock
or saving vendetta vanish instead? but that seems unintuitive
tropic rover
How's everyone feeling about the nerf now, what traits are we looking for?
lone junco
I would only save tb for like 3sec tbh. When we had shoulders and 100% crit rounds. We barely held it then
ripe dock
and if I use vendetta, then save vanish for tb inside vendetta, it will begin to mess up vanish/vendetta sync
ripe dock
so what about second vanish then?
lone junco
With tb. And no SS. There is zero resasons for your vanish and vendetta to split.
hollow stone
Tb window isnt nearly as good as it used to be so its likely worth just using on cd
And yea. They'll be de-synched by like 3 seconds lol
lone junco
Vendetta open and vanish At t=5 ish. They will be sync the whole fight.
ripe dock
I must be bad at explaining my questions
lone junco
Unless you are playing knife. Ugh.
lone junco
Use
vendetta. T0:03
Tb before or after vanish. T0:07 ish.
No desync.
At the 2 min mark do you delay anything to align?
ripe dock
(Not knife, with ma) The second time vanish and vendetta come off CD, tb will also be on CD. Therefore either we save a TB to vanish with TB, we dont and use envenom mut envenom, or we can save vanish and vendetta for TB, or, finally we can vendetta first and then vanish when tb is up (which is the one option that would split vendetta vanish)
lone junco
Your tb should Land in that 2:03 vendetta.
hollow stone
As long as you vanish within the vend window and have full ma uptime in that window, youre fine. Thats what noobe means by synched
ripe dock
okay one sec hitting dummy
keen spruce
with 1 new piece
lone junco
Tb is what 25s?
keen spruce
yeah
surreal rivet
anyone know if wowprogress counts archive stacks?
keen spruce
lone junco
Worst case is tb at 1:55 then vendetta at 2:03. So they entirely gap.
@surreal rivet wowprogress sim is weekly I believe. Don't use it.
lone junco
I would.
Not for the vanish. But to at least get it In the vendetta.
But I'm a noob.
onyx wind
you running MA in your thought experimeent?
lone junco
He is. Yes.
lone junco
The opener is strong as shit.
onyx wind
without SS
ripe dock
Okay so using TB on cd, my tb is on 6-7 cd when vendetta vanish come back
lone junco
Nice. Almost a complete gap.
So if you hold 8 sec you can vendetta tb env mut mut env mut mut env.
ripe dock
so it is worth holding that TB before vanish vendetta?
lone junco
Read your apl.
ripe dock
I tried to earlier but very confused at it
lone junco
I don't know if they have a condition.
ripe dock
not sure how to read first time i tried
restive path
Do u use throw knife always at 30 stacks ?
polar grail
sample sequence will show you if the APL is holding any CDs
restive path
Or is there a priority here
lone junco
@restive path 29.
onyx wind
you use it at 28 stacks with EP up
since the stacks dont count as you auto
but they are deelayeed
lone junco
It stacks quickly and you get into gcd overcapping .
onyx wind
so you will get 30 stacks when it hits
lone junco
Ep vendetta vanish orb throw was ok last night.
Still a fat non crit.
55k maybe
Best part of knife. Was to throw one time at an egg. Or hexer.
dense quest
How many pk do you usually get in 3-5 mins fight
lone junco
"I tried"
strange python
you use nightsalker with throw?
restive path
Are u guys using it ?
lone junco
20-24sec apart.
jovial aurora
Is it good to always run with ss on one piece of gear for combo point generation?
dense quest
Pk so awkward
onyx wind
Its really easy to use TB
ripe dock
Okay, I think my APL at second vanish just done Vanish mutilate envenom mutilate
onyx wind
most fights have times where you need to rangeee
ripe dock
that seems bad?
dreamy wagon
SB only worth it if you can stack 3x?
lone junco
I had 2x with the uldir archive
Dps was flat on mother then I got two fat knives at the end.
dreamy wagon
Tired of chasing traits. When blizz keeps nerfing them everyweek
restive path
My sim says 2x ss with archive is better than 3x sb
lone junco
Not impressed. But you can throw an add if you want to.
restive path
But one ss and archive are 355
lone junco
I am going back to 1ss 1archive 1ditb
onyx wind
@restive path try 2x sb and archive
dense quest
Get use to it they are gonna swap it up every tier
strange python
@restive path are you using weekly or daily, you might be using old version
restive path
I’m using nightly
dense quest
I bet by the end of this expac they will make sstep a dps cd
lone junco
@ripe dock When you delay tb 6sec here 8sec there . You lose an entire cast at the end of the fight. Sim is based around not missing them.
restive path
I shoulda picked up 355 blade in the shadows for sub but I picked up ss instead
Rip
surreal rivet
figured
onyx wind
no one ss cause it bad
ripe dock
I see. Just curious why it went vanish muti envenom muti rather than envenom muti envenom
lone junco
Just fire it off. Once you can safely beat the simc average for your gear, then you can make adjustments. Specifically around vuln phases. Or last tb occurrence. Like end of fetid.
My 1 SS. Exang. Is my highest. Yesterday. 2knife ma/tb was highest.
cold meteor
lone junco
Keys is 3ss or just play sub/outlaw.
restive path
Sorry for making you repeat this noobe. So I’ll run 2x sb one archive and use knife at 29 stacks always ?
lone junco
I would like to play 1ss. 2scent. But don't have the fok crit for scent yet.
restive path
Apparently my haste sucks so exsang is simming lower
lone junco
@restive path if that sims your highest. Use at 28 and with ep up.
onyx wind
now exsang is better again
restive path
Grats
onyx wind
fuck
lone junco
Nice.
onyx wind
thanks
lone junco
Yes.
solid sluice
Is assa still good in keys
merry fox
Is SS still best for M+ tho
solid sluice
Or sub and outlaw better
lone junco
I got 365 from week 1box. My luck is strong.
exotic bridge
sin is prob still the best for high keys
restive path
So maintain Ep and throw at 28.. any reason why ?
370 dice only here :( I want a gale
lone junco
Ep buffs all dmg. Just env knife. Or rupture knife.
restive path
Got it
lone junco
The gcd on it kinda sucks. Btw.
I tried to vanish around it and it was not fluid at all.
compact socket
SS still best for m+?
restive path
Why 28 and. Not 30 though
arctic crow
What do you guys think would be better DDx2 or SB x 2
marsh tree
395 boon from this weeks chest P O G G E R S
arctic crow
Bloodmallet has hem pretty close
solid sluice
What do you need to do before you throw?
lone junco
Press knife.
solid sluice
Envenom then knife?
lone junco
I keed. Have ep up from env or rupture or Ct.
dense quest
Have ep buff then knife
arctic crow
Envenom doesn't buff it
arctic crow
Or so I heard in here
rustic onyx
When i reapply my garrote/rupture at the end of vendetta does the vendetta buff snapshot for all the bleed duration or not ?
dense quest
Not
lone junco
In your log it should be a steady bump at like 25 seconds.
prime pasture
question, how reliable is askmrrobot on multiple setup comparation sims? im getting very different results between askmrrobot and raidbots
dusky fulcrum
:
after 5+ cloaks in uldir and alot of depression i finally claimed my reward, 🙏 rngesus has a plan for everyone
lone junco
@rustic onyx vendetta never buffed the whole bleed in the first place. Just the overlapped damage.
rustic onyx
was wondering because the apl is weird
it recast rupture before it end with exsanguinate so the only reason i could think of was to get it buffed by vendetta before it expire
arctic crow
Is that after second vanish?
mossy hazel
That's because you want max duration rupture, isn't it?
rustic onyx
but the rupture is like 3 sec left
lone junco
Amr apl is maintained by 1 or 2 people. Simc apl is run by each class afaik.
restive path
Is there a set rotation with sb or is it same standard tb opener @lone junco thank you for answering
arctic crow
I think it's to get the buffed rupture
stuck shuttle
results after removing SS
lone junco
Just make sure your first knife lands within the open vendetta.
rustic onyx
oh
restive path
Kk
stuck shuttle
back to where I was pre-nerf
merry fox
Raid bots is telling me to go 1 Swirilng sands 1 Rezan's fury and 1 Ditb
arctic crow
That would make sense right?
silk carbon
before nerf i could sometimes get above the DH
rustic onyx
doesn't not buff rupture ??
strange python
how to warcraftlogs work after a nerf like this btw
lone junco
Vendetta at t 0:03 ish. Dagger before 23
silk carbon
now i cant at all
arctic crow
But stealth increases your dmg
lone junco
@merry fox you aren't the only one. High ilvl for raid single is fine. Less gimmicky output.
arctic crow
You get a buff while stealthed
rustic onyx
am i missing something here
solid sluice
@stuck shuttle what traits
arctic crow
Like 50% dmg increase
strange python
does it reset logs after a nerf
ionic charm
Your second row of talents are how stealth increases damage. That and traits
rustic onyx
"Your abilities requiring Stealth can still be used for 3 sec after Stealth breaks.
Also causes Garrote to deal 80% increased damage and have no cooldown when used from Stealth and for 3 sec after breaking Stealth.
"
stuck shuttle
@solid sluice 1xDD 1xLM 1xMS
arctic crow
Thays the talent
rustic onyx
but my rupture ???
strange python
arctic crow
The ability stealth gives u a buff
sand whale
oh
rustic onyx
or it is not written
lone junco
@rustic onyx what are you talking about?
sand whale
sorry guys wrong channel
tribal sand
only with nightstalker?
tribal sand
stealth doesn't just increase your damage with out nightstalker
what ru running then
arctic crow
NVM then
mossy hazel
Yea, that's the nightstalker talent, next ability is like 50% buff
rustic onyx
i run subterfuge
lone junco
Subterfuge only buffs garrote. Ns. Buffs rupture or garrote.
rustic onyx
the trait i linked
tribal sand
so just garrote shit with SS
rustic onyx
@lone junco my original question was after vendetta why does the apl do garrote garrote rupture
lone junco
So they are refreshing rupture prior to the end of exang?
rustic onyx
when rupture isn't over and is buffed by exs
arctic crow
U ggr after vanish
lone junco
Is to maximize the 3cps from SS.
tribal sand
cause you need to put rupture back up
tribal sand
not if exang is over
lone junco
Exang:
G r g vendetta mut mut rupture exang.
lone junco
Vanish gg. R.
tribal sand
^
lone junco
What about it.
ionic charm
If you run one extra mut after your second envenom before vanish you can g e g m m r and get it right after exsang finishes
lone junco
Why gg. R ?
rustic onyx
well when i do that there is 3 sec left on my rupture
tribal sand
don't let you bleeds hit 0 bud
lone junco
Yes. That's why you wait.
tribal sand
it will fuck you up
rustic onyx
oh so you wait
lone junco
You do let your exang expire. To 0
rustic onyx
yeah i'm pretty sure you don't ever reapply dot with exs
lone junco
Especially your SS garrote.
rustic onyx
you let them tick down
dense yarrow
rustic onyx
@tribal sand
smoky wind
I sim highest with 1 SS, 1 archive and 1 poisoned wire with TB and MA O.o
merry fox
This is kinda weird, but my best set up for traits isnt even some of the best traits https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gJXvt2WncFVCKgdrE36HeG
fading socket
lone junco
@smoky wind grats.
wooden island
is rogue still top tier in m+?
tribal sand
yea
wooden island
awesome
dense yarrow
yea
wooden island
i just got heroic
rustic onyx
so @lone junco just to end the discussion the correct way is vanish g g wait rupture to tick off reapply rupture ?
wooden island
fetitid chest
dense yarrow
CT this week does wonders
wooden island
woohoo 😄
deft locust
ct is nutty
hazy forge
hey im trying to learn sin, how do u guys keep track of what targets you're rupture/garroting?
deft locust
even with ss nerf
lone junco
I kept up with an arms warrior in teeming fort underrot.
deft locust
I am pulling close to 20k overall
wooden island
they buffed ct?
tribal sand
honestly I don't think alot of people seen their damage change with 3xSS because of the SS bug
strange python
Hi, my gf and I are struggling with figuring out why she does subpar dps on every encounter and even on target dummies. Am I allowed to post some logs and ask for help? Rn she's doing Uldir NM with the guild.
tribal sand
they were probably canceling out SS the entire time
deft locust
CT spam is pulling me like 30k a trash pack
lone junco
Teeming loves Ct.
deft locust
triple SS still, GGG ct throw a couple ruptures out
wooden island
i c
deft locust
then ct spam
wooden island
xD
strange python
Or maybe I can PM someone
lone junco
@strange python Post a log. And a raidbot sim.
limber lion
So is Assa garbage now with the ss nerf?
wooden island
assa feels meh
dense yarrow
assa is still good
tribal sand
sin is sitll good
stuck shuttle
Whats your ilvl on the SS pieces? @deft locust
lone junco
@tribal sand My cleave 4-6t packs went from 25k to 20k.
deft locust
@stuck shuttle my tank pulls a ton, like 2-4 packs a pull if that explains it a bit
and 370 370 and 340 I think
stuck shuttle
ah no wonder
hazy forge
is there a standard way to keep track of garrote/rupture on different targets
hollow stone
My 370 w twist the blade simmed higher for st than my 355 w ss
stuck shuttle
i ran 3xSS but my SS pieces were 340 340 355 and it felt underwhelming @deft locust
hollow stone
Ilvl is a big deal
lone junco
@rustic onyx yes. Vanish gg env mut rupture. Or. Vanish g g. Rupture
hazy forge
well, i dont think my interface automatically puts any icons on anything does it
deft locust
yeah, SS in general is nice but not like it used to be @stuck shuttle
stuck shuttle
even with CT
deft locust
most of my damage this week is def ct
lone junco
Default ui has debuffs. But tidy plates does it as well.
lone junco
Scent.
deft locust
Scent is good too
lone junco
3x. HB.
hollow stone
Sob is good
deft locust
I don't have three good scents tho
hazy forge
assassination simming higehr than my mainspec after i got dagger
surreal rivet
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nZM8UZPpd6aFjb7ivhJrwc x1 SB x1 SS x1 DITB
hollow stone
But sob is trash garbo maximum at st
deft locust
I pulled 19.8k overall in our 8 shrine we ran last night
I'll test triple fok
in our 9 shrine
lone junco
When you can get out 6-10 ruptures. HB FOK is a monster. Unfortunately you wont have cps for Ct.
deft locust
HB is fun
stuck shuttle
I ran a Shrine 9 last night and after the initial ggg CT , I felt so energy starved
surreal rivet
has anyone tested blindside?
strange python
@lone junco I sent you a PM didnt know if to post here or not
lone junco
Mostly cause Pb is shit. And spending all your cps on rupture. No time for Ct
deft locust
I've never felt energy starved in trash packs
stuck shuttle
maybe just not pulling enough
stuck shuttle
since tank was a noob
deft locust
sometimes a bit less
stuck shuttle
i think im at 19 right now
deft locust
ah then ye fairly the same
lone junco
Teeming fort. Underrot was pretty horrible.
solid sluice
Are you putting a couple rupture up?
deft locust
ggg into triple low cp ruptures should be enough to sustain
solid sluice
Cos if not you'll starve
deft locust
you just can't double fok rupture
you have to fok rupture
no matter what you get
cp wise
at least to start it off
otherwise you risk draining your energy and then starve out
lone junco
Get a crit set. Fuck haste for teeming.
stuck shuttle
I think thats what i was doing wrong
stuck shuttle
should just aim to low cp rupture
topaz gulch
anyone have the mmo link to the nerfs? I cant seem to find it on there anymore
stable oxide
/guide
deft locust
should just be fok rup
lone junco
In a fat pack it's like 7.0crit 0.8haste.
stable oxide
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
lone junco
I do 2cp+ on elites.
heavy ginkgo
hey i run 2xSS and 1x lasermatrix.. but it still sims higher with it as with SoB, DD or something else. Can that be correct? is SB now the way to go again?
deft locust
I think my sim was reading 4 crit 0.9 haste, but pretty close
lone junco
Use the higher one. And get a knife tracker.
hollow stone
We all want blindside to be good. I just... dont see how it can be in the current state
gentle hornet
So on AOE opening: ggg > ct > fok rupture (x3) > fok to build cp > ct? We never use mutilate on 4+?
*4+ adds
opal mason
Guys help me understand why we do a 3 point rupture in the ss opener? Is it just really shit damage so we dont care?
solid sluice
On 3+ I think
visual token
Pandemic stacking
hollow stone
Pandemic and to get your energy regen going asap
late niche
pandemic stacking and you activate Elaborate planning right away too
deft locust
@opal mason to get an initial rupture out so when you do a second one the Pandemic timer stacks
smoky wind
@opal mason The only thing CP's affect is the time, not damage
visual token
Old dots apply to new dots for up to 30% (iirc) duration.
hollow stone
And ep. Yeah
deft locust
oh true
opal mason
Ohhhhhh
deft locust
EP is a nice bonus
opal mason
Kk see I came from feral
near swan
does haste increase the tick rate of poisons and bleeds?
opal mason
Where CPS affected damage
visual token
Yes
opal mason
Got it ty
hollow stone
Sure does
wooden island
what does pandemic mean?
lone junco
It's a board game about aids.
wooden island
i know it makes my bleed stacks more
opal mason
No what it allows you to refresh without losing the leftover time
strange python
Ok so about my post earlier bout helping my gf with subpar dps, this is her live log rn https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NH7MtApCYGJKa8FZ/ and in sim she had like 12k dps (can't do any rn). Any tips?
heavy ginkgo
What traits do you aim now for guys?
lone junco
When you refresh a dot. It just extends the timer. So we don't get into clipping partial tick rates.
hexed root
whats y'alls rotation for zul usually?
heavy ginkgo
do you triple stack something? double stack and soloing? or 3 different?
stuck shuttle
Pandemic - adds 30% of of time to the refreshed dot
hexed root
spam fok or swap to temptest?
hollow stone
St rotation on zul
lone junco
G g gr.
hexed root
even with the crawgs and everything up?
astral hound
mfd for m+ or vigor?
stuck shuttle
dont go tempest on Zul
lone junco
Vig.
daring imp
@strange python she that wooshyou?
near swan
is vigor a must ?
astral hound
guessing the extra energy lets u get more bleeds out faster?
stuck shuttle
yes
shut yarrow
Hey guys. sorry to interupt the convo Currently leveling as assassination for pvp and pve purposes, just did my first dungeon and didnt seem to do that great aoe on packs but did some pretty awesome damage on boss / single target fights. is that about right for us rogues?
strange python
Yes forgot to mention
hollow stone
When crawgs up i fok for the extra cp. and if you can rupt the guardian (or w/e its called), do it
stuck shuttle
vigor is a must
lone junco
Zul open depends on SS or not. But you are there to tunnel boss.
strange python
She's Wooshyou
hollow stone
And run ct to cheese parses
heavy ginkgo
"Sim yourself" doesnt help me at. i do sim myself atm. but in all cases.. SS is the best outcome in raidbots.
near swan
Ok heres the real question
stuck shuttle
@shut yarrow thats rogues yes
shut yarrow
thanks @stuck shuttle
near swan
^
stuck shuttle
yes sim yourself
near swan
does it matter which one?
stuck shuttle
it dpeends on your gear
wind berry
Toxic Blade opener is weird af
daring imp
@strange python she could be doing a better job at opening, she's not pandemic'ing garrote enough both on opening and vanish window
stuck shuttle
theres no cookie cutter spec anymore
near swan
so it depends on how much master i have yea?
lone junco
They play and gear a little differently.
stuck shuttle
no
hexed root
I'm currently 362 ilvl but because of my traits im simming at like... 12-13k dps
lone junco
No. SS. Haste GC. Exang.
stuck shuttle
stats
hexed root
feels fucking rough mate
hollow stone
If you cant sim or dont want to, run tb
inner pulsar
Sim yo self, search your feelings, you know it to be true
hollow stone
Its a safer choice but not always better
heavy ginkgo
@stuck shuttle but we can already tell which traits are more worth than others
hexed root
@unreal bear 1 ss, 1 laser matrix, 1 scent of blood
lone junco
@hexed root seems low. I'm 349. 13.4
unreal bear
that's weird.
hexed root
@lone junco tell me about it
hexed root
I'm sitting at 19% haste/21% crit
lone junco
Scent isn't a st trait imo.
inner pulsar
@heavy ginkgo You wanted the answer, and the answer is "It depends on your current gear"
hollow stone
Seeking ilvl on az pieces > seeking specific traits in current state (prob change again next week)
lone junco
19 is good
stuck shuttle
@heavy ginkgo look at hero damage, look at sims,
hexed root
you're not wrong, just best piece of loot i have for the slot
wind berry
@hexed root running exactly the same, with less haste, simming 14 . 400 ...
strange python
@daring imp what we did was to decode raidbots' sample rotation and apply it there, including the opener, should we use the sample opener on the assassination guide on ravenholdt or got any other tips?
granite berry
What's the go-to now that SS is out? Sharpened Blades? Ideally I mean
hexed root
@wind berry thats super awk
hexed root
@unreal bear you want simcraft or raidbots?
strange python
Also anything else besides the opener could be improved?
unreal bear
raidbots
sand whale
also @strange python her dot uptime needs to improve I usually look at that first
astral hound
Is there a resource for looking up where my weakest piece of gear is / biggest potential upgrade to hunt? Been typing stuff in manually
but it takes aw hile
late niche
do you think blizzard is done with rogues now or are we expecting more nerfs/changes?
sand whale
your top rogue has consistent 90+
hexed root
simming
sand whale
she sits at like 80% max and even down to 70/60
hexed root
also, sylvana's resolve?
inner pulsar
@astral hound AskMrRobot does that, though I can't tell you how accurate it is