max stacks?
#assassination
warm ibex
round ledge
oh shit these massive ss nerfs
zenith trellis
u get em Double D's
round ledge
does that mean we're no longer using SS?
novel lake
2 stacks of archives is max right now ye ?
vast edge
still use SS in m+
nova gazelle
Clearly the rogue discord are full of inmature sub rogues cming in here mocking us
vast edge
fortified week it should be king still
zenith trellis
fuck these rogues man
round ledge
based on what?
zenith trellis
they ruined rogue kind
round ledge
multi-dotting with it?
vast edge
yes
tough warren
umbral comet
I just think they are overdoing nerfs atm.
round ledge
aight I'll keep using it for now
tough warren
well thats a feelsbadman
arctic isle
not even 24 neck do u even play wow bro
zenith trellis
we had highest triple target and single target for over a month by pretty far
so nerf isnt that unwarranted
atomic karma
zenith trellis
it just sucks that its gear based nerfs through azerite
vast edge
i tried 1 DD and 2 scent of blood in a mythic.. bottom dps on trash, top dps on boss, tried 2 SS and 1 DD top on trash and top on boss.. so for now im just gonna stick with SS traits
hollow cloud
zenith trellis
looks like it yea
hollow cloud
its ya boy 
umbral comet
@zenith trellis God forbid we have good dps. So why the fuck arent DHs getting nerfed? They have insane burst cleave and good ST
Topkek
hollow cloud
im execute rogue boye now
tight meteor
because we can do almost everything our kit is insane
visual token
Lol
tight meteor
tbh not being top dps is fine for rogue we’ll still be needed
zenith trellis
yea theyre doin well but people can still stack up to em
with rogues
we had rogues at top in almost every single fight
solid nova
@umbral comet That is absolutely, not how you talk to people here.
zenith trellis
and in m+
unique depot
Despite the nerf my sim is 13.8k and pulled 14.2k on fetid last night I’ll take it
hasty sparrow
@unique depot did you end up keeping the ss traits?
umbral comet
And the dude was here purely to tilt
unique depot
Just 1
unique depot
Kept 1 and switched other to archive
hasty sparrow
i'm just confused as to why herodamage is saying SS is still gucci with Exsg
stiff leaf
You should do more dmg on fetid tbh with 13,8k sin.. cuz of dmg buff
soft finch
am i simming low? it said master ass was simming higher than subter with 2 sb/1 laser
umbral comet
Are people switching off exang after the SS nerf?
unique depot
Oh poo forgot bout the damage buff on fetid I thought I broke the game
I kept exsang sims for 50 dps loss but I like it and the burst
knotty dew
what boss/dungeon drops pieces with archive trait?
split dirge
zul shoulder
wise whale
how does archive work? how do you gain stacks?
split dirge
sinful lotus
I'm so lost right now. Sims told me i lost like 650 DPS with 3xSS so i went to 2xDD and 1xSoB (simed highest), but after 5 min Dummy tests, i'm still pulling more with 3xSS
split dirge
every 3 bosses killed i think
solid nova
@knotty dew https://azerite.info/class/rogue
knotty dew
you kill 3 bosses in uldir afaik, but not sure if you can like kill 3 in LFR and then have the buff in heroic/mythic straight away
vague ledge
which spec is the highest dps wise after SS nerf?
split dirge
dont you get a stack every 3 bosses you get locked to
knotty dew
thx @solid nova
tropic hull
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
split dirge
which last permanently i think? like pantheon trinks?
tropic hull
still bugged?
wise whale
so it stacks in combat and also gets leveled up by killing 3 bosses in uldir?
split dirge
i got 370 azerite chest with dagger in back
split dirge
oh shit ty for reminder
teal bough
easy glad 385 crit/haste ring from pvp chest
unique depot
Archive at 10 stacks is by far the strongest trait now good thing about it is it still keeps track even tho I was using SS on same piece
vestal wren
array stacks are rly potent yes
strange python
@knotty dew thats why I rather hit a dummy for 5 mil damage and go after that instead of sims.
the opener for master assassin feels so clunky
anyone else?
round ledge
master assassination??
umbral comet
Wadu?
strange python
ups
bold stag
3xDD vs 3xSS not much of a diff https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/78XKVWTU6tbUkHRbqWpaha
sonic prawn
Sim tell me that Sharpened Blades > Meticulous Scheming > Poisoned Wire, what do you guys think about it ?
glad peak
Archive is useless in m+ tho right ?
strange python
No. But you don't get secondaries
wary anchor
sharprned blades is so boring 😦
unique depot
You don’t get the stack bonus in m+
thorn timber
bold stag
got one sharpened blades too and some SoB but all of them sim less
strange python
SB is boring as hell
wicked nymph
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5bCXDFoTW4Uyk2ghU7Yfts my highest sim atm is with 1ss 1dd and 1 matrix
sonic prawn
Like the old Fan of Knives :X
arctic isle
sb is boring 4head i preferred the passive ss dmg traits 4head
strange python
None of the traits are interactive tbh. SS was strong but hardly interactive
sonic prawn
i just get this 370 head so ^^'
thorn timber
yikes at equating SS and SB in terms of interactive gameplay
strange python
I didn't?
quasi steppe
what spec for high m+ keys this week?
arctic isle
yikes at reading comprehension
strange python
Neither of them are. You press SB when you max stacks WOW INTERACTIVE
thorn timber
Nah the guy above you did though. What's outlaw playing like these days?
strange python
you do know it's different for everyone right
novel lake
is there a site comparing classes in single target, triple target and full aoe ?
wild zodiac
exotic ledge
Any good Azerite Combinations yet ? Or do i have to wait for Herodamage to be updated
wise whale
3xss for m+ is good
tropic hull
looks like they fixed ss bug
wary anchor
is opener same with master assasin?
visual token
What makes you think they fixed it? Is there a blue post somewhere?
wild zodiac
stealth.
onyx wind
@wary anchor depends on traits
tight meteor
cant be the same cuz you cant garrote multiple times in opener
wary anchor
@onyx wind i have 2x sb and x 1laser
onyx wind
I came up with this opener
g mut r vendetta tb
envenom spam
3 seec left of vendetta
vanish, envenom, shurikeen
and use last global for some shit
tropic hull
nah bug still there
royal lantern
shruiken?
onyx wind
knife throw
royal lantern
we are not dirty sub rogues
onyx wind
whatever the fuck its called
uneven widget
Is SS really that nerfed for m+? Did someone try it in actual m+?
onyx wind
Its nerfed by 40%
royal lantern
not just the best trait for everything
uneven widget
cuz im wondering if i should replace some of them with shitty traits
split dirge
blizz have to be fucking with me - the zandalari emissary gives me 340 ss sghoulder day of nerf ^_^
onyx wind
dont worry dude
vapid flint
I mean it got hit pretty hard went from the best trait to around 13th
nova gazelle
so stacking 3x SS is still the best for m+?
onyx wind
yes
split dirge
^_O
tropic hull
yes
manic remnant
nop
umbral comet
@split dirge I got a 385 SS chestpiece from my mythic cache. I dont sympathise with you
nova gazelle
lol
split dirge
imagine every other trait being this bad
tropic hull
it's more like other traits are not good
split dirge
i got 2x ditb and the shit never procs
manic remnant
sim and sim again with other traits
umbral comet
Why dont they just buff other traits instead? Every time you have fun it gets nerfed.
royal lantern
because
vapid flint
@onyx wind I didnt see you there god
royal lantern
if you just buff 30 othertraits
onyx wind
nice logic
split dirge
bcos teyre meant to be impactful
onyx wind
And they are
split dirge
considering they replace tier leggo and artifact
vapid flint
Eh
split dirge
id like em to be a bit op
tropic hull
SS with nerf and bug still best for AoE. That cool
royal lantern
they never said they should replace legendarys
dense blaze
Honestly any nerf to rogues is stupid
royal lantern
and go away with them, they where the worst system EVER
never want too talk about that shit again
onyx wind
This azerite fiesta is nothing compareed to leggos
unique depot
SS isn’t that bad but sadly i still switch to sub for mythic plus sec Tec and beable to spam evic on priority
split dirge
btw has anyone else noticed this
onyx wind
Atleeast you can switch traits
royal lantern
´´hur dur, here, you get sephuz and the valeera legs first, hf getting benched cus the other rogues pulls over 20%more dps´´
onyx wind
@split dirge Wonder what ilvl it is
royal lantern
such a good system am i right
split dirge
this was the same last week but it didnt actually give a blue cache
onyx wind
340 or 355?
onyx wind
Nah
split dirge
said same last week but didnt give it
hollow rose
is bloodmallet updated?
onyx wind
Youre thinking about it wrong
Gladiator is just the name of every gear piece from arena
vapid flint
@royal lantern Doing the same thing with the traits you have to get lucky and stack the same traits
exotic ledge
@hollow rose it is yes
onyx wind
Maybe im wrong
vapid flint
And alot of traits are just shit or underwhelming or get nerfed
royal lantern
the traits are not even close too the power spike legendarys gave you
onyx wind
Hopefully im wrong
split dirge
either way it doesnt actually exist im p sure
onyx wind
lmao
split dirge
i did the quest last week and it straight up didnt give me or any of my friends the cache
idk if its meant to say example drop or
royal lantern
a rogue without the shoulders did 0 dmg when you looked looked at somone with them
same with fire mages with the bracers etc...
split dirge
not rly true though
onyx wind
I thought that was fine
split dirge
shoulders bursted giga hard and were amazing
split dirge
but it doesnt separate a good player from a bad one
honest needle
so my sims want me to use 1 archive - 1 dd, and 1 tidle surge. for single target does that make sense ?
onyx wind
I got prydaz into pants in legion
split dirge
yes
royal lantern
soooo
honest needle
no ss at all ?
royal lantern
the shoulders did not make a gigantic difference, but azerite traits do?
onyx wind
^_^
royal lantern
seems legit
honest needle
shouldnt we want atleast 1 ss for rotation
split dirge
no lol
onyx wind
no
onyx wind
SS doesnt do shit for our rotation
honest needle
the rotation feels so crappy without ss
onyx wind
Just run MA and ur openere is same almost
split dirge
changes order of 2 buttons in opener
onyx wind
also it sims higher
split dirge
insane
glass chasm
2 SS + 1 DitB with item Upgrade on chest and weapon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3gHxJUdB3Jdzqm3dGSDyLp
Vs
3 Deadshot Traits with downgrade azerite items and a downgraded weapon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3gHxJUdB3Jdzqm3dGSDyLp
Can someone explain this to me, or is it time to roll Outlaw now lol
(dps is without buffs and please dont mind the meme trinket ;>)
royal lantern
you do 10k dps with 352? that seems a bit low?
exotic ledge
So without any SS Traits, should i still run Subterfuge ?
strange python
onyx wind
no
glass chasm
its no buffs
vapid flint
Heres a trashcan inside of it is SS trait
onyx wind
without SS you run MA
vapid flint
There you go
royal lantern
ah sorry
split dirge
disabling all buffs for target dummy drops my dps by like 2.5k
honest needle
for mythic plus should we still want to use atleast 1 ss ?
hollow rose
can someone explain something for me on bloodmallet
onyx wind
For mythic+ you want 3x ss
hollow rose
im confused what the archive of the titans +5 or +10 is
visual token
Check pins
honest needle
@onyx wind are u sure thats true with the nerf for hectic cleave its not telling me to use 3 ss it still wants me to use archive
hollow rose
ok
nova gazelle
I currently have to run with 3x DD :/
onyx wind
hectic cleeave is not m+
honest needle
so how do i sim m+
tropic hull
3 boss 40 sec
honest needle
so u still think 3 ss is best for m+ even with nerf
glass chasm
ss got hit so hard with the nerf, that my 3x deadshots outperforms it with weaker gear. not to mention that deadshot was also nerfed LOL
tropic hull
sim use garrote outside sub so
onyx wind
yes i do
hollow rose
Do I have to have the archive trait active to rank up the array?
onyx wind
¨no
lethal drift
SS seems to be not bugged anymore with garrote after subter at least
onyx wind
You dont even have to have an uldir piece for it to tank up
As long as u kill bosses every week
honest needle
do other people agree with that 3x ss for mythic plus still ?
unique depot
@hollow rose the archive stacks every time you kill 3 bosses in uldir so 15 bosses would be +5 stacks 10 would be 30
onyx wind
No its only mee
honest needle
Im just curious what others think
visual token
I don’t mind the nerf at all
soft finch
did 3 ss earlier in m+ seemed rly good
vapid flint
I dont mind a nerf i just didnt want to be curb stomped
onyx wind
I dont think you realisee how op it was
honest needle
on blood mallet even for aoe they have ss toawrd the bottom now
tropic hull
@lethal drift 1 garrote from subter deal more, than 1 garrote from subter and 1 without. For me alteast
honest needle
thats y im confused
slender hare
pretty sure that bloodmallet sim doesnt consider re stealth
onyx wind
Assassination rogues were 20% better in m+ than the next best class
slender hare
SS is deffo still on of the best m+ traits
onyx wind
20% better dude
vapid flint
Yeah and a 25% nerf would have been plenty
And still would have made the trait viable
lilac fern
For m+ content the trait still is more than viable
onyx wind
Its still viable, just not bis for ST anymore
is it viable for ST?
yes
is it viable for most bosses? yes
split dirge
is there a rotation out for MA opener?
warm sable
Why didnt you pin Bloodmallet ? 😃
hollow rose
one more.. is there any way to see my current array rank? or does it say when Im in uldir?
onyx wind
vestal wren
@warm sable both bloodmallet and herodamage is pinned 😉
split dirge
envenom spam being mut to 4+ envenom until next phase yeah?
exotic ledge
In M+ 3 SS with Exsang should still be the goto right ?
onyx wind
Ye
honest needle
@onyx wind so when i sim 3 bosses for 40 secs it still wants me to use my archive and no ss traits. is that due to the ilvl on my 370 helm ?
warm sable
Thanks ❤ @vestal wren
vestal wren
but you can use !sims and will get both linked in the chat
split dirge
btw, is this version of MA functioning as +50% flat crit, or is it multiplicative by your regular crit?
royal lantern
flat 50
warm sable
Talking about Uldir. You start with Azerite trait(normal) and after you kill 3 bosses in raid you get for next week +5 on that trait ? Right ?
split dirge
ty, @onyx wind in your rotation, do we envenom from vanish? wouldnt we want to garrote or rupture from it instead?
onyx wind
You geet +1
royal lantern
you get +5 after 5 weeks.....
warm sable
RiP
torpid sluice
When using DD traits, do you want to use Master Poisoner Talent as well?
fiery sedge
okay my sims says i gotto use laser, archive and dagger in the back and i still sim for 15k then on st in raid
i miss out on 230 damage outside raid for assasination then... i guess i still use 3x SS within m+ with crimson tempest as lvl100
warm sable
And after 5 weeks thay gonna nerf it and put something like DD to be the best one hahaha :)))
paper root
is the pvp brawl quest bugged?
royal lantern
a bit like the pantheon trinket in legion
paper root
says you get a gladiator piece gear
warm sable
Yea just wanted to say that @royal lantern
split dirge
it said that last week
paper root
but only get the normal pvp items
arctic isle
bro
split dirge
i think blizz are just being scummy
split dirge
thats not what gladiator quality piece of gear means though
arctic isle
yes it does
arctic isle
unless u like to make things up in ur brain
warped ermine
Are we running master assassin now? Seems to sim more at least for me
onyx wind
oh myGOD
sand canyon
Nice push week btw OMEGALUL
split dirge
timid grotto
hybrid thicket
just logged in and not so bad start, just got 370 SS shoulders, 32% upgrade
split dirge
onyx wind
It is a nice push week
split dirge
i dont see the resemblance
honest needle
so can any1 tell me what traits i should try to farm from mythics dungeons since ss was nerfed for single target ?
split dirge
it literally doesnt give you the item that it shows
i did it fucking last week
i didnt get any gear cache
timid grotto
@honest needle DD or SB
split dirge
it was the exact same displayed quest reward
it just gives a green box and marks of honor
arctic isle
guts bro
brave lily
Are the SS nerfs live yet btw guys?
timid grotto
yes
hollow cloud
yes 
timid grotto
vital crater
hasty crater
So some people went from sub rogue to assa to now back to sub basically
honest needle
I was so excited when i got this from the world boss, but i checked trinket list, and i guess this isnt good at all https://gyazo.com/6dd1a71d77847f78d9e024a48ba42d61
unique depot
So in an aoe situation like m+ what is the process I’ve been doing m+ as sub is it just tab garrote rupture several mobs and hope for PB?
timid grotto
would just tab rupture and then spam ev > fok
honest needle
do we garote rupt each 1 if theres is 3 mobs or do we garrote each 1 first then apply rupture to all ?
lyric pond
hi did anyone try x2 archive x1 SS for m+?
unique depot
I’m gonna try m+ assassin tonight hate switching specs just for dungeons
fierce turtle
Got 385 galecallers today so I'm not too upset
timid grotto
👉 🚪
honest needle
what trinkets should we try to get for mythic plus should i not use that 385 i linked
warm sable
So basically from now on we go for DD or SB for M+ Single Target; SS is still best for AoE;
and for Raid we use Uldir Azerite gear ?
warm sable
For DD and SB talents are MA ?
split dirge
fuck me my sim is confusing
unique depot
Archive traits don’t stack so just 1 piece with it on should be fine
thin plinth
guys what is SB
split dirge
1x ss sims highest but so does master assassin
literally what kind of fucking opener do i do with that
split dirge
wait no
timid grotto
refusing to play with sb, had enough of that 30 stacks shit in legion
onyx wind
For me, having 1 ss trait makes sub > MA
(im only using the ss trait because its a 45 ilvl upgrade
timid grotto
sb is just 200dps better than DD so i take it
onyx wind
Dont worry about it
strange python
SB is sharpened blades right? the throw thing
onyx wind
If you dont care about dps, theres no reeason to run 2x SB
its harder to execute
eespecially if you are having trouble doing normal rotation peerfeectly
unique depot
There’s plenty of downtime in rotation for SB I haven’t really tried it I’ll check it tonight if I like it seems like a lot of work
onyx wind
Ive beeen playing assa for 2 yeeears, and i still have troublee performing SB rotation perfeectly
honest needle
whats the best way to use this trinket https://gyazo.com/d0fe6fd251dbbef414afe10942f29035 its saying its bis for me for m+
split dirge
id just bind it to vendetta
timid grotto
inb4 blizz nerfing SB 
strange python
wait so assa is worst again according too simulationcraft? fukkk
dim sentinel
what website you use to check trait dmg?
onyx wind
do peeeople just look at it for 1 sec
strange python
Nerf all my specs pls
dim sentinel
what is the website to check the Azerite traits dps?=
tropic hull
play demo lock
timid grotto
pretty sure they are going to buff some traits soon
split dirge
guess we bussin out the MA
timid grotto
time to do m0
onyx wind
There are a lot of fine traits atm
You dont need to have 2x SB to do dmg
almost any combination of the top traits work fine
split dirge
yeah honestly theyre pretty well balanced its just sad SS got hit so hard
tropic hull
DD good too
split dirge
its nice being broken
umbral comet
I tried 1 SS 2 DD and i simmed less than 3 SS
onyx wind
Yes
leaden ore
cuz it's not 20% better than the next class
onyx wind
Why do you think that is
strange python
Guys I forgot the sub opener already!
round vine
even with 370 azerite gear and 370 wpns, sin sims lower than outlaw on ST now. at least for me
gilded oak
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ugNcW75kWygTkhNMzB9vUi
3xSS for 4 targets, 40 seconds
timid grotto
they balanced 1 of our traits ye, sob/pw/fob/ttk litearlly unplayable
gray shuttle
!stat
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
onyx wind
If you got different info, please share
umbral comet
Isnt warcraftlogs m+ section just based on clears?
onyx wind
But i think these stats justify thee nerfs
leaden ore
well i haven't screenshotted the logs without today skewing % distribution
but it was never 20% literally pulling that out of your ass
leaden ore
lol
onyx wind
You have no info
leaden ore
what is your info?
onyx wind
And you try to devaluate mine how?
sudden trench
Guys I think DD is bugged
tropic hull
what about dd?
visual token
40% to a trait. All the other bonuses are still there. Subterfuge for example.
sudden trench
its not doing the kind of dmg that it should be doing if I sim at 15.8k
patent ridge
guys i'm sorry to bother with perhaps a stupid question, i've been digging since shroud got nerfes, i find this +10 on every sim of the traits but i dont know what it is
leaden ore
no what is your info that sin rogues were 20% ahead in m+
onyx wind
Its from a site which logs performancee of classees in mythic+
A well respecteed sitee
dim sentinel
@patent ridge what site is taht?
patent ridge
@dim sentinel icyveins and bloodmalet has it
onyx wind
What about thesee stats are wrong
quaint sparrow
Hi guys , im starting to do pvp and i wanted to know wich are the best pvp talent for assa rogue ? ( you can juste say the number i'll understand )
onyx wind
Pleease explain that to mee
umbral comet
That is based on clears, not numbers though
patent ridge
ahhhhh its about mythic plus
dim sentinel
tks m8
patent ridge
thank you so much
sudden trench
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jEjTxR6janfZSmxfjJY87o
2 x dd and 1 archive. But I dont think that is how it should be
split dirge
why
onyx wind
Yes, it is based on clears
timid grotto
why do you think u should sim higher?
leaden ore
that's not 20% if you normalise by 100\
onyx wind
Which is why i didnt say
Assa is doing 20% more dmg than all other classes
@leaden ore What is it then?
split dirge
yeah tbf we dont lose a huge amount of ST from the nerf
leaden ore
and also
split dirge
and we already have shroud distract and get to skip half of tol dagor
its pretty fair
leaden ore
anything under +5 is pretty useless
onyx wind
What are you talking about
leaden ore
it's 16%
onyx wind
Okay
visual token
Can’t tell if trolling or not
sharp knot
You talking about the raid logs?
umbral comet
Why are you so toxic lol
onyx wind
Beecause i have to explain basic logics
leaden ore
logicz
visual token
Lawgik tew hard
sharp knot
Its already nornalised to 100
visual token
Lol right
onyx wind
@sharp knot Its a waste of time
sharp knot
Also
timid grotto
arguing with a theearthisflatbeliever
onyx wind
Confirmation bias is strong
sharp knot
16/84 is 19% increase not 16%
visual token
Don’t explode heads. It’s only Wednesday.
viscid pawn
with subterfuge and 1 ss trait its still: garrote-rupture-garrote-vendetta-toxic blade-envenom? or does the ss nerf changes something?
cedar meteor
Warcraft Logs has statistick before the nerf
onyx wind
We know it does
We are arguing whether the nerf was deeseereeved
Which it obviously was
sharp knot
16 point difference doesnt mean much, like that could mean 34-->50 or 60-->66, you were right to use relative difference
onyx wind
Judging by performance
sharp knot
50-66*
onyx wind
Aye, most people dont know the difference though
winter fog
so, do we still like SS in m+?
wise whale
why did hero damage not include uldir trait with 2 stacks which we are at now
winter fog
enough to be better than a 385 piece with shit trait?
wind totem
or just sim yourself
onyx wind
@winter fog Im using 385 SB in m+
wind totem
if you want a ballpark just multiply the x1 by two.
wary anchor
does toxic blade affect SB poisoned knife?
strange python
what spec has best aoe for m+ now?
onyx wind
Beecause of energy
winter fog
@onyx wind got a piece with SB and double dose , bloodmallet says DD is better at one trait than SB, but both are shit at multi target
so Im not sure about ditching SS
strange python
10+ and over I mean
onyx wind
so
strange raven
does toxic blade /envenom is affected by MA?
wary anchor
how do i find out which gem i shud be getting?
wind totem
Used to be assassination up until today. Now we don't know for sure yet. Wait a little and check out warcraftlogs.
@wary anchor Sim yourself
zinc cliff
yo, whats with interventions fucking 30second taloc kill
bright vessel
raidbots updated with the nerfs yet?
strange river
I was watching shakib and they were still using ass Rogue and he was still smacking it good
onyx wind
1x sb on its own is pretty garb
strange python
@wind totem yeah good point
onyx wind
But i make it work
hybrid thicket
just testing live and with new 37 shoulders 3xss It is doing 15,5k per tic, fck 😦 was doing 21k
winter fog
@onyx wind exactly, but is 385 1xDD + 2x340 SS > 3x 340 SS ?
strange python
@hybrid thicket that feels brutal 😦
sharp knot
Whats everyone using trait wise in pvp, if anyone at all? atm using 1x SS and 2x scented blood
onyx wind
Some guy said twist the knife is good with mfd
hybrid thicket
I thought i will be like 18k+ but thats a fucking lot .. f blizzard being biased
onyx wind
for burst
wary anchor
@wind totem how do i test differen gemx
wind totem
you dont need to. Just sim yourself and see which stat has the most weight
and gem that
strange river
That looks like a hacked lock tbh
strange python
@sharp knot 3xSharpend is fin to build up to
strange river
Logt
strange python
Fun
sharp knot
for twist the knife, it says "does x more damage, and lasts x longer when it crits" - does that read it only works when it crits, or the second part only works when it crits
strange river
Everytging looks normal but it only seems to have calculated a small.portion of it correctly. Casts and dmg done per cast are all normal
onyx wind
Seecond part only
sharp knot
@strange python wanna try that but no decent pieces
strange river
It reads that the first part is always and the second part is only on ceit
sharp knot
Yeah I'd like to try it but if its the whole thing then my crit weight would go up a bit and atm I'm using haste mastery
split dirge
it specifcying "envenom" again in 2nd clause
wind totem
There is a comma
split dirge
means theyre separate
strange river
Crit
onyx wind
so i assumed
onyx wind
thanks qt
wise whale
is that you?
strange python
And TTK stacks ås usual?
wind totem
It's not him
pine panther
Blizzard has really dropped the ball with this xpac.. this such bs.. have to change everything every three days .. wtf
wise whale
is she some kpop star?
wise whale
but famous?
twilit owl
Running 1x SS and 2x SB with MA acutally sims the highest.. For m+ 3x SS Still the way to go i think then?
wind totem
Her name is Mariya Takeuchi
sharp knot
my current azerite pieces have gut ripper and its really nice in pvp so only wanna change if its a big difference
wind totem
She got really famous with her song Plastic Love
hollow cloud
Do the sims in raidbots assume your reorigination array is +5?
onyx wind
im brb for a couple hours
hollow cloud
🤔
split dirge
i think the sims check your hidden quest for how many stacks you have
on raidbots that is
wary anchor
@onyx wind Hey with ur opener do u ever SB after the vanish even if ur not 30 stacks?
strange python
i suck at vectis, should i be running exsang or something since adds die so fast
wind totem
Yeap that's asians for you
daring imp
with vectis, exsang/vend/vanish lines up perfectly when he comes back
winter turtle
sims tell me to drop SS completely now :< feelsbadman...
double dose, champion of azeroth, blightborne sims higher than 3x SS for me, what the actual frick
wind totem
The difference is minor though
I would still play SS if you do a lot of m+
or some combination of SS and ST traits
solid nova
@wind totem Spec channels arent the place for that #off-topic
winter turtle
yea. not gonna throw those azerite pieces away obviously. got my m+ gear and ST gear
but ST sims tell me to drop ss
=/
strange python
ok thanks ongbak, i was like 47% ilvl parse so something was very wrong
split dirge
is it possible to look at a sim for MA and see what rotation the sim uses? or is that not possible
glass chasm
2 SS + 1 DitB with item Upgrade on chest and weapon https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3gHxJUdB3Jdzqm3dGSDyLp
ans my outlaw is doing better dps :/
daring imp
outlaw
eternal vault
the 355 chest reward from exalted champions rep is pretty good for those with 340 chests currently
daring imp
oh
lone junco
@split dirge Yeah. You sim with MA then read the sample sequence.
It will vanish TB in the open.
mossy hazel
I fucked up my opener on mythic taloc kill last night and now I don't want anyone to look at it for review...
daring imp
lul
drowsy hull
lone junco
I was messing with it and could probably be better. If you have 1ss
winter turtle
just pretend it never happened. that way you never make mistakes :^)
daring imp
😦
mossy hazel
accidentally fat fingered a non-sub garrote after vendetta... completely fried my good ones
lone junco
The bottom of the player section. Apl. Then sample sequence.
lone junco
No. Next one down.
spice nymph
People see your parse on your profile though? So whats the point in hidding the report
lone junco
He was joking
gloomy venture
well that ss nerf feels bad
lone junco
Def.
ebon zinc
what traits u will use for mm+ now pls?
umbral comet
They should have nerfed it by 20% or smth
wind totem
So I'm guessing the SS bug is still not fixed?
gloomy venture
2/3 rogues in mine have rerolled other classes
spice nymph
Don't make me cry Im afraid of tonight s raid 
lone junco
I've been top of every pill since nigthold prob.
mossy hazel
Hey so for exsang (I just started using it)
daring imp
how is ww still on top
lone junco
@wind totem as of yesterday. Still bug. Just weaker.
daring imp
@_@"
umbral comet
Every time we get to have fun, they nerf the fucking trait. First it was deadshot, now its SS
glass chasm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3gHxJUdB3Jdzqm3dGSDyLp
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aghaDAdvvR1TfUSSJxMWss
feels good men
mossy hazel
The ones that don't line up with vend/vanish, are you just using it on CD? Anda re you always topping off rupture before hand?
glad shuttle
if you reroll because you got nerfed you're gonna have a bad time
umbral comet
Im not rerolling, im just salty
glass cairn
fuck blissard
lone junco
I tried SB. Not gonna work out.
spice nymph
I thought exsan won't be top and we go back to TB with people dropping SS on ST 🤔
umbral comet
Im salty because i got a 385 SS azerite chestpiece in my chest the same day as they nerfed SS with 40%
gloomy venture
blizzard made a great expansion
umbral comet
:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
gloomy venture
with everything BUT the azerite bullshit
spice nymph
Still good in m+
mossy hazel
Basically whenever I had an unsynced exsang, as soon as it was off CD, I'd throw up max rupture, regardless of where it was in time and then follow upwith exsang
strange python
SS is fine in m+
lone junco
Azerite is better than relics that destroyed gear.
strange python
it was op last week
wind totem
@umbral comet yes thats how nerfs work.
gloomy venture
azerite shouldnt be a thing tbh
kindred flame
2 weeks in a row i couldn't get an upgrade from both PvP and M+ chest so be happy
gloomy venture
i would rather see you get buffs or something for lvling up your neck
wind totem
Of course it wa OP. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
umbral comet
What are you talking about? I was dealing the same dps as other classes 10 ilvls above me, how is that op? Topkek
gloomy venture
not having to find specific gear etc
wind totem
the same? Noob. You gotta be doing more than them.
umbral comet
Fuck
lone junco
They were over confident in their skill to balance 90 different traits
umbral comet
Maybe if i had more practise ::V
strange python
not op btw
lone junco
G g g Ct 🎉
glass cairn
i dont get top dps even with 355 ilvl 😭
spice nymph
Yeah I was happy that I dealt good dps without any TF luck like 90% of my raidteam has 
brisk cargo
wind totem
@umbral comet It's practice
pulsar bluff
i sim 400 better with lower gear alternative in sub now 😦 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uw5bcvmGLN8d9YywUNQrf4
umbral comet
Nah but i sure am salty about the 385 azerite piece having really bad traits for subtlety
slender hare
Has anyone tried m+ with 3 SS yet? how big of a difference is your overall dps in dungeons
lone junco
20k instead of 25k.
ripe comet
otsu did you use garrote After stealth while the SS Garotte was Running?
pastel vault
who got nerfed this week?
umbral comet
no that shit cucked my garrotes
wind totem
Monks and Sin rogues mostly
spice nymph
People act like SS is dead you still do so much dps in m+
People still won't get close to you
ripe comet
monks got bitchslapped back to Legion tbh
pastel vault
I opened caches and went up in dps haha
umbral comet
i applied 3x garrotes max on trashpulls
lone junco
I tied warrior back to back to back.
wind totem
It's typical. People don't like being nerfed so they whine like it's the end of the world for sin rogues.
ripe comet
k , because that would down your dpa jep
slender hare
was just wondering if it would be better to go sub for m+, or just stick with 3x SS
ripe comet
stick
unreal sundial
Question:
the highest simming Azerite items dont have the highest simming Azerite traits on Bloodmallet... i assume this is incorrect?
ripe comet
i still Sim for 26,5k dpa in 4 Mobs in a 40 sec fight and you can so it every pulls unlike outlaw
pastel vault
bloodmallet rankings are just based off simulationcraft sims
spice nymph
You can have a 385 piece with semi good trait vs 340 with good and it sims higher cause of stats I suppose
umbral comet
prob secret teqnique sub pulls ahead
winter turtle
2x scent of blood or 2x SS for m+? 🤔 scent sims higher (patchwork 4 targets 1min) but feelscraft tells me SS would be better
spice nymph
I don't see sub burst for 40k on trash for like 10 seconds straight 
wind totem
@ripe comet how do you sim yourself on such a short fight? Simmulationcraft doesnt go below 100 seconds.
ripe comet
if you Run +10 Keys and your tank pulls 10 Mobs every fight you don't Need to Think about the SS nerf anyways:D
umbral comet
@spice nymph i got a 385 azerite piece. It sims 100 dps more than my 340 one because it has bad traits
pastel vault
well you get a ton of restealths in M+ so SS trait becomes good
umbral comet
Its so well balanced
lone junco
Scent requires high crit. And big pulls.
ripe comet
raidbots, 4 bosses , 40 sec , nightly
lone junco
If your tank is pulling 2-5.
wind totem
ah raidbots
lone junco
I use 6t.40s. No buffs.
wind totem
ok. I'm using the program.
true sedge
current best build is to reroll another class right ?
unreal sundial
the uldir traits sim highest, as the 3rd ring Archive of Titans buff is highest dps, but the az gear is ranked by non uldir az items
winter turtle
ye i'm gonna sim some more but i'll prolly just switch some pieces around and see what feels better for me
unreal sundial
weird
umbral comet
yes @true sedge you should go DH
lone junco
Frost mage.
true sedge
@umbral comet i will
ripe comet
have no sse Running in my Laptop , i like knowing what to so with an Item before the next resett 😂
winter turtle
it's close enough anyway
spice nymph
Do we burst at all with SB and MA? Or do we only get dps once we get to use the stacks... No opportunity to try it myself yet
umbral comet
The only good thing about the 385 SS trait piece i got is that i lost 300 dps after the nerf instead of 700 LUL
ebon dragon
@true sedge go DH!....blizzard are nerfing all rogue spec but DH still top dps with 3 bottons and same rotation for st and aoe
true sedge
this game is so fun got a 385 shoulder that's worse than my 340 😄
ebon dragon
buttons*
umbral comet
Hmm, is 2x SB 1x SS going to be the best combination?
spice nymph
Yeah but we have 0 burst then right? Compared to SS Subterfuge
lone junco
Uldir traits are valuable.
umbral comet
Yeah but those fuckers dont dropp
lone junco
You can vendetta vanish tb throw env.
spice nymph
🤔
lone junco
The 50% crit is 3sec.
spice nymph
That sounds so wrong
ebon zinc
what is SB?
spice nymph
Yeah I meant as in using pk to deal alot of dmg 
umbral comet
Sharpened bløades
tender walrus
How do i sim my damage if i were a sub?
lone junco
And occasionally you had things aligned.
It's ma. Not ns.
You get 3 gcd.
Tb crits pretty high. And knife could.
I took and orb and got a non crit 50k throw I think.
spice nymph
You do use knife at end of vendetta if I understood right?
Guess I just try after I get home from work 
lone junco
Vendetta is 20sec. You taking about the open?
wary anchor
my agi and haste stat weights are the same which gem should i get?>
lone junco
That was for end of mother fetid. Zekvos. Vuln burst.
winter turtle
i think i'll roll with scent instead of SS in m+ for now... sims are almost equal and sometimes my tank is a dickbutt and doesn't let me restealth between his fuckin chainpulls
lone junco
Opener is like. G m r vend vanish tb mut env.
Then throw when stacked.
GC trinket should push it well enough.
spice nymph
Tbh I have no idea how fast SB stacks thats why I prob. Just have to try myself
ebon prism
6 out of 10 rogue all stars for M uldir are sin. Is that from pre-SS nerf and not accurate now?
lone junco
SB stacks in like 20sec or so
It was actually ok for egg. And adds on Zul. Pew. That's it
arctic agate
@silk jolt expected something like this. How does your damage compare to before?
wind totem
@ebon prism we are in the same patch so the logs encompass pre nerfed rogues too.
silk jolt
@arctic agate sim down a little but not game breaking
paper root
in m+, do most people use toxic blade or exsang now?
novel lake
that's 40% less garrote dmg
paper root
thats not true
its only 40% less from the trait
you still get 80% bonus from talent, and the base dmg
arctic agate
A significant hit, but still very solid. Always have to compare to other classes/specs as well
pulsar bluff
sin were 1st by FAR in MM+
novel lake
8262 is 38% more than 5968
pulsar bluff
its not an huge impact in raid
its a leggit nerf for mm+, that's all
things are same
silk jolt
it's a 28% drop guys
ebon prism
I took a break so coming back now not sure which to play - sin or sub. Regardless of gear, I'd like to figure out which is flavor of the week, excluding outliers. Is sin still slightly better due to ease of play vs sub?
novel lake
well ye, kinda true
novel lake
what's your suggestion for m+ now? sub or sin ?
arctic agate
Roll a class, not a spec
knotty dew
you have to look at it the other way, how much 5968 is less than 8262.
arctic agate
Be prepared to play any spec really
little frigate
What would your advice be for m+ 2x SS or 1x SS and 1x Laser
lone junco
3ss still. Imo.
drifting elbow
3SS
ripe comet
never laser
drifting elbow
laser dmg got nerfed anyway
calm grail
For m+ SS is still good. Boss damage took a hit for sure with that build but the add damage is still good.
mossy hazel
Wow, the hit to laser was that bad?
ripe comet
35%
arctic agate
Yes, legit nerf
ripe comet
little less then SS
mossy hazel
I thought it was still one of the top even after nerf
drifting elbow
it wasnt that bad
mossy hazel
Ouch, good to know, thanks
ripe comet
it is with the uldir buff
mossy hazel
I knew it was 35%
drifting elbow
its just pretty much equal to SS
ripe comet
without it not so much
ebon prism
Yah I'm proficient in sub and sin. I don't like outlaw playstyle but still want to focus on whichever is better at this point
little frigate
laser still sims highe ron ST
mossy hazel
Didn't realize how low that dropped it
ebon prism
@arctic agate we're you going to say "in current state... X spec is better" or still just play whichever I like?
arctic agate
@ebon prism best to play them both, depending on content you might want to switch as one or another is better
ebon prism
Cool thx for advice
arctic agate
If outLUL is not your thing, can't blame you
little frigate
yeah the differences are pretty small anywaw. Though I do thikn this change made Sin the "worst" of the three specs again
ebon prism
Looks like zul for sub and vectis for sin, and then the rest are quite even?
Wow, that drastic, noct?
arctic agate
Personally I enjoy it, but would not focus on it as long as I can't play SnD. I must be the unluckiest person on earth when it comes to RtB
little frigate
think sub sims highest, then outlaw and then sin
ebon prism
Rip :(
arctic agate
Sim*
magic zenith
You can't let rolling bad on rtb bother you. Rerolling lowers your big CDs so your not losing much
arctic agate
Sim is 100% uptime on ST
little frigate
what's ST again?
ebon prism
Single target?
little frigate
so 100% uptime of what?
arctic agate
Usually your target runs around or is not even in range for attack where sin might perform better. At targets with more uptime, sub might be better. A lot of factors really
true sedge
went dh thanks for the suggestion
umbral comet
The problem with Sub is that you usually bring secret teq to m+. FOr me the cleave build sims about 1k lower than the ST build
opaque junco
Stayed assa to prove a point
umbral comet
Assa you just bring your ST build to everything
little frigate
I think sub suffers less from movement then sin does
not that ill ever play that trash spec EVER
umbral comet
Yeah and dots last through downtime on bosses like surging cuck in shrine and cannongrill in siege
static shore
so what we do now ?
ebon prism
Sin has psn and bleed on tho. Wouldn't they suffer less? Or u think the extra shadowstepping helps more
devout dust
is Thunderous Blast still one of the best traits? seems like a big nerf to me...
static shore
Should i stack 3xSB??
little frigate
sub has a dot and shadowstepping helps a lot i guess
but fuck sub. chaotic mess of a spec
ebon prism
Hahahaha I enjoy both
arctic agate
@ebon prism shadowstrike allows good uptime, but sin dots perform better where the target is not attackle but not immune
little frigate
/puke
ebon prism
Got it. Thx
vestal wren
🤔
ebon prism
How is a monk higher? Aren't they garbage now?
static shore
Our best traits at now is ?
vestal wren
i just talk about the spec
static shore
SB?
arctic agate
SS
static shore
still after nerf?