And now his reforges cost 40k and he has some random traits he was messing with
#assassination
frosty gyro
steep citrus
my reforge was at 20k yesterday. i was like bleah, stickin with whatever traits i have for a couple weeks
earnest tangle
why does blizz hate the fact that a pure dps class like rogue is performing well on damage
blissful dove
why does blizz hate fun?
frosty gyro
I mean we're still performing well
candid jasper
Is the exanguinate build changing now that SS is nerfed?
dim raptor
why blizz?
daring imp
aff lock padding for 
parses
vestal wren
its not rly hard to use.
https://wago.io/r14XptS_7
just use it if the aura glows XD
frosty gyro
I'm more annoyed at azerite traits in general
red fiber
People will always bitch about rogues.
craggy helm
Why do you think blizz hates it? SS was far higher than the other traits. They're just bringing it in line
vestal wren
did you use dark for sb on sub?
strange python
Anyvody done 3x DD yet?
frosty gyro
You're supposed to do Dark Shadow/FW right? 🤔
frosty gyro
What do you do with dance? SS>SS>EV>SS>ST>EV?
unreal coyote
You ask in sub
frosty gyro
True
exotic abyss
Ask in sub
onyx wind
Actually they sim the same
grim mason
whats SB?
onyx wind
Now that i have 3xSB in both specs
exotic abyss
Sharpened blades
grim mason
fuk that trait
novel zealot
idd
fringe socket
my toon simming for 14k but cant maintain higher then 12k on training dummy https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sD2s8P2SGB1aDhVvH92ig1
frosty gyro
I wish I had 3x sb for either spec
strange python
that's so boring though
onyx wind
assa sims 15k, sub sims 15k
frosty gyro
As opposed to what?
final stone
@fringe socket raidbots isnt updated
strange river
do you have buffs on, and are you fully buffed?
safe root
ur sims probably taking into account full raidbufs, flasks preports and food
opaque grotto
well you don't have raid buffs or anything on a training dummy
frosty gyro
The traits most people use for sub Inevitability/BitS are 100% passive and do nothing
mellow pasture
obtuse robin
so i assume fenetic corpsle buff is updated in raidbots aswell
strange river
wait fenetic got buffedd?
frosty gyro
Maybe they buffed the G'Huun trinket
barren tapir
hey guys, 365 crit/haste dagger or 370 crit/vers dagger.
onyx wind
frosty gyro
@vestal wren when?
onyx wind
Guess that solves it
strange python
DD is boring but it means i dont need to FoK in ST >.>
onyx wind
we SB now amigos
steep citrus
corpuscle could never get to 4 stacks, but now it can
vestal wren
@frosty gyro ?
barren tapir
my other dagger is 370 crit haste
safe lynx
is SS still best trait?
red fiber
Weigh your stats m8
frosty gyro
@vestal wren when did they do raid trinket buffs?
vestal wren
oh i think it was in the hotfix too
keen hound
so lost roughly 700 dps on sim from the ss nerf... looked at top gear and now w/ the nerf changing out 1 piece of gear i'm just down just 70 dps.
sin is fine
steep citrus
The Frenetic Corpuscle now activates more often.
silent plinth
my 355 ss conquest chest replaced by 340 sb 
vestal wren
steep citrus
please add "More Often" to the raidbot sim please
red fiber
Lol
cedar elk
is sb, scent of blood?
frosty gyro
@vestal wren oh of course they buff that one and not the even worse ghuun trinket
strange python
TFW 370 construct overchrager sims 1% than 345 galecallers
onyx wind
earnest tangle
@cedar elk sharpened blades
vestal wren
🤣 blizz balancing
onyx wind
Even with exsang its better
final stone
Think raidbots is updated now just had a loss of about 850dps
frank furnace
@keen hound which traits?
dawn merlin
ugh, don't have any better azerites to swap
strange python
I sim 700 more as outlaw now 😭
pallid hound
after nerf with exs i lost 300dps, what
hollow flicker
if im late to the party let me know, seems like 3 SS is still better for AOE?
dawn merlin
600 dps less it is for tomorrow
vestal wren
dont forget to use nightly on raidbots
safe root
if sb becomes meta im gonna headbut a spike
onyx wind
I am using nightly
strange python
What did they nerf
frosty gyro
No SB pieces in uldir
onyx wind
with tb, its a rough 2% increase to go 3x SB compared to 1x SB 2x SS
frosty gyro
Enjoy your weekly rng cache
amber sequoia
why didnt the awful ghuun trinket get buffed QQ
keen hound
@frank furnace going from 3x ss (340 pieces) to 2x ss 1x dagger in the back (355 piece)
tough whale
Enjoy your bad luck protection azerite peice cache
umbral ravine
With SB do you only cast toss or knife at max stacks?
fallen pike
@onyx wind I know it's plastic loooove
red fiber
Once it hits 29+ you use it as a CP generator.
red fiber
Replacing mutilate
vestal wren
yes (na) no (eu)
onyx wind
You want to use it just as veendeetta runs out
tardy spade
So
vagrant tapir
Raidbots is showing that its been updated to the new Simc build
tardy spade
What do we do in terms of trats now
frosty gyro
Actually yeah thinking about it SB on Sub gets 50% damage buff from Shadow Blades
onyx wind
id think SS is fine still
frosty gyro
No wonder it's so good on sub
vagrant tapir
This is whats been pushed to simc
vestal wren
@vagrant tapir i checked with the overwrite and it did
vagrant tapir
frosty gyro
Sin just has vendetta
autumn glade
Is there any site to check best traits for pvp?
lone junco
Ep Vendetta Vanish ns sharp knife.
stray hatch
Is there a specific boss fight that's best to take a look at to see how I'm playing sin wrong? I'm doing mythic progression with my guild and seem to struggle to sustain my damage over time
pallid hound
is it possible thaht im losing only 300dps on gear with 2x SS and 1 matrix? ._.
red fiber
PvP channel. There is guides for each spec in PvP
glad shuttle
whats SoB?
alpine pilot
guys, to min/max when running Toxic blade, i just want to aim for 100% uptime on envenom during the TB duration right?
frosty gyro
How much does the SB hit for? Not worth using Nightstalker on Sin for it is it
frank furnace
370 frenetic simming lower than fathoms and 355 dice ST
vagrant tapir
Is showing githash
50a61cc4c1
final stone
@pallid hound I'm thinking so I have same traits and lose about 700
vagrant tapir
which has the changes i linked in the picture
vestal wren
coefficient didnt change with the overwrite so change is in
onyx wind
@alpine pilot No, aim for 100% EP uptime
frosty gyro
@frank furnace sims aren't updated?
onyx wind
Clip your envenoms
vagrant tapir
Yeah, im talking about on raidbots atm
vestal wren
thats on raidbots
pallid hound
sims are updated u just need to choose "nighhtmode"
frank furnace
Oh. That's good, may pull ahead then if not updated yet
frosty gyro
Also lots of things sim lower than fathoms fathoms is dumb
lone junco
Yeah. It is in. I ran weekly and nightly. Same result.
amber sequoia
wheres nightmode?
pallid hound
nightly*
lone junco
Oi
chrome cave
that got hit too
safe root
i wonder hw many people have galecalers equipped and doesn't actually use it
solar fog
So, did they fix the SS garrote bug?
onyx wind
no
alpine pilot
@onyx wind sory waht does EP stand for?
final stone
Actually I lo lose 635 dps
onyx wind
elaborate planning
alpine pilot
oh okay
pallid hound
I lost around 300 ._.
lone junco
Anyone used a sharp knife vanish ns. On zekvos after catching an orb?
smoky lantern
whats best trait now or stillss
cinder lotus
The odd thing is that they nerfed it, without fixing the bug. Typical.
earnest jolt
What’s the SS bug?
honest needle
so should we still be using 3x ss i lost about 500dps
cinder lotus
!Ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
grim mason
I feel like you are all just freaking out, because they brought a trait inline with the rest
onyx wind
best ST triait is SB, multitarget still SS
lone junco
I wanna see a 300k knife.
alpine pilot
really? even if i hav ot finish at low cp, keeping EP up during TB is the best way to maximize TB usage? @onyx wind
thanks
solar fog
That's what i was thinking, welp.
nimble gulch
what does sb mean ?
onyx wind
so u can use 2x 4-5cp enveenoms atleast
gleaming canopy
What gear are you guys trying to farm from mythic+, if any?
onyx wind
in thee windpow
red fiber
Multi-Target SS is probably still best.
earnest jolt
Wooow ok
celest drift
Sharpened blades
alpine pilot
: )
red fiber
ST, SB might be better.
onyx wind
: )
frosty gyro
@gleaming canopy trinket and weapon atm
red fiber
Sim it boi
celest drift
What about Double dose?
final stone
Wooostaying asin!!!
frosty gyro
SB/DD are better ST
alpine pilot
i sim higher with TB over exsang now, sadness
warm geode
they fix the SS bug?
alpine pilot
exsang is so fun to play tho
onyx wind
TB>Exsang always now
red fiber
So, exeo
hollow pine
I hate TB too, dammit
onyx wind
SB on ST, SS on cleave
earnest jolt
Exs is soooo nice
gleaming kelp
the weekly is also taking the nerf in account
cinder lotus
no @warm geode The odd thing is that they nerfed it, without fixing the bug. Typical.
tropic hull
for raids TB. For m+ exang still better
frosty gyro
Well at least you don't have to line up Tb with vendetta/vanish
red fiber
And use SB instead in ST?
onyx wind
I dont understand sorry
cedar elk
I have 6 pieces none with sb, feeels bad
tardy spade
sb?
proven pumice
I assume SB requires a talent change over the 3xSS
strange python
ULDIR raid trinkets are omegalul but they wont buff them they will nerf fathoms and galecallers
misty remnant
Sharpened Blades = SB
strange python
SB gross
hollow pine
I have the hope that one day they will buff "Twist the Knife" (Envenom trait). I'll be happy to use TB
worn ginkgo
i have two Archive of the Titans and 1 SS right now .....
onyx wind
SB->TB
strange python
just use knife at 30 stack o.O
honest needle
so we want 3 ss for mythic + and 3x sb for raiding ?
tardy spade
TB?
onyx wind
no
runic gorge
isn't SS still good?
somber otter
for weapon enchants: does it matter which wpn has which enchant? dead/quick or quick/deadly
earnest jolt
Toxic blade
onyx wind
it will depend on the fight
frosty gyro
I don't get all the hate for SB
onyx wind
SS is still good
light kestrel
Reorigination array doesn't stack, right?
serene nacelle
nope
cinder lotus
so many questions x.x we're in a black deep hole LOL
honest needle
@onyx wind its not like we can switch traits every fight
light kestrel
That's what I figured, 1500 with 2 at 10 stacks would be nuts
strange python
@worn ginkgo archive got buffed so thats good right?
onyx wind
I can
misty remnant
someone make a youtube video = Money about this
twilit axle
is bloodmallet updated for the ss nerf?
onyx wind
Thats why u farmed azeerite gear the first weeks
honest needle
lolu can most cant
frosty gyro
SB actually adds a lot to gameplay
serene nacelle
@somber otter doesnt matter
worn ginkgo
@strange python I mean I think so
hollow stone
The hate for sb is that its one more thing to track and push every, 30 sec or w/e
somber otter
@serene nacelle thank you!
hollow stone
And it just feels so unsatisfying
normal surge
Is raidbots updated with the changes?
magic ermine
Guys, anyone here would mind helping me? im trying to improve my dps, im new to the class, have read all pins and working on it since the end of legion, but i may lost smth really important cuz my dps seems pretty bad and im chegking that my uptime is always low, while skilleds rogues on wowprogress have most of time 90%+. im reapplying gar and rup on pandemic, always keeping them up.. but still bad
This is a img of my details rn, dpsing a dummy. im brazilian, so you guys may not understand some stuffs. any tips would be priceless, since im trying to shine in this class
strange python
@onyx wind i farmed and got fuck all azerite bits. If my raid doesnt prove lucky ill be re spamming m+ lol
unreal sundial
Is there a guide I can look @ stat weights for?
strange python
M0s sorry**
frosty gyro
@hollow stone well that and you also have to make sure to maximize your melee uptime and not get zoned off of your target
onyx wind
😡 blizzard, why does no traits changee my rotation? theyre so boring 😡
also
😡 omg i have to press something new 😡
normal surge
Is raidbots updated for SS nerf?
stuck shuttle
@unreal sundial you can sim yourself for weights
tame cobalt
only 800dps lost lul
stuck shuttle
The nightly appears to be updated now
onyx wind
@strange python Just go in a leather grp
hollow stone
Very true, @frosty gyro
proven pumice
One of the things I liked about SS was it changed up the rotation
frosty gyro
TBH I wish they would just make all traits change rotation and all traits unique
unreal sundial
@stuck shuttle thx hecktix, not sure if there are soft cap stats i should be working towards tho
frosty gyro
Trait stacking is so stupid
hollow pine
Well, I love changes to rotation. But that SB thing is really annoying
onyx wind
OO
normal surge
What the hell is nightly version
onyx wind
Uniquee traits would be nice actually
frosty gyro
Espexially with something like SB where you need 3 for it to be really good
honest needle
so does any 1 kno what traits we want to use now for raiding ?
scarlet osprey
hollow stone
Yea exeo. Welcome to the world of different strokes for different folks
main blaze
Lost 300 dps ;_;
steep citrus
will talents other than subterfuge be viable in ST now?
chrome cave
no
frosty gyro
There are a lot of traits that have semi-unique benefits already like SS or Inevitability
chrome cave
subterfuge is still huge
normal surge
@stuck shuttle what is this Nightly version
frosty gyro
Where part of it doesn't stack
main blaze
@normal surge Option in raidbots, choose nightly
dapper moat
might be stupid one but what are array stacks on uldir azxerite talents +5 +10?
stuck shuttle
I can't wait for this shit storm to die down
orchid field
They can nerf ss into the ground but I'm keeping it around for those sweet, sweet combo points on my opener
frosty gyro
Oh and uldir traits are semi unique with array
hollow stone
By thursday we'll all still be running ss and the fotm will be gone
strange python
With SB we replave mut with fok in ST?
onyx wind
Vanish+shuriken with either nightstalker and master assassin might be viablee
sad to break it to you homie
but assa is still fotm
now u just run SB instead
hollow stone
It wont be
frosty gyro
Ehhhhh
hollow stone
Have you seen sb as sub?
earnest jolt
Feels bad
onyx wind
It is
frosty gyro
I mean Sub is probably better ST
silent plinth
ss is still good for +
manic quartz
question about TB, now that its most likely better than exsanq, lets say i have 4cp and use TB to gain 5cp and proceed to envenom, do i spam 4+ cp envenoms during the duration of the TB or wait for the envenom buff to fade?`
frosty gyro
And SS is still best for M+
viral juniper
sb?
onyx wind
3x SB for sub sims lower than 3x SB for sin for me
earnest jolt
If only you could farm azerite gear
sudden canyon
are BM and HD maintained by diff ppl(for rogues)
onyx wind
on puree singlee targeet
PURE SINGLE TARGET
and for every other target in the fight
assa is milees ahead
so 99% sure its still fotm
wheat zealot
Pureè
gleaming kelp
oof
brisk imp
are sites updated with the change?
wheat zealot
hollow stone
Alrighty then
feral shoal
My Sims didnt change much
hushed turtle
same
stuck shuttle
raidbots nightly seems to be updated
frosty gyro
I think the problem here is
twilit belfry
alright lads im back
wheat zealot
I lost 700 dps and exs is still ahead in 1 target 5 minute bc troll
feral shoal
I might even gained dps to yesterday
twilit belfry
363 equipped, 3xSS on TM+10
feral shoal
cant even tell.
twilit belfry
wasn't terrible
can def feel the nerf, boss dmg was fine , trash you really notice it
frosty gyro
You can get BitS/Inevitability in uldir and from the pvp chest last week
red fiber
Sub has to spec for either ST or MT.
frosty gyro
But SB is like only cache gear
onyx wind
You have to keep in mind, the current SB Apl might not be optimized as much as SS/exs
red fiber
It's annoying to have trashy DPS in packs, just to get a nice lil burst at the boss.
gleaming kelp
SB ?
twilit belfry
so anyone who was playing SS
viral wasp
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3UG3tC5umYgCd6Jh21Qb5e
For me the exsangue build still sims higher
onyx wind
Probably because you have galeecaller
static shore
Bdw why Blade in the Shadows so bad at now?
dawn merlin
also got GC, simming higher with exsang by 2%
vestal wren
@onyx wind you have a point, its might worth to use sb during vanish with ns, you have a sb profile by hand i could sim with?
frosty gyro
galecaller sims
stuck shuttle
yeah GCB makes exsang really good
frosty gyro
Like you are gonna get to stand on it with 100% uptime
red fiber
Exang may sim higher; but it's a higher skillcap talent.
earnest jolt
Gcb?
wild zodiac
has it calmed down in here yet?
onyx wind
@vestal wren Sure, want it in pm?
earnest jolt
Ohhh
patent tartan
for M+ wont you still take crimson instead of poisonbomb?
vestal wren
ye
onyx wind
@vestal wren also, i dont have an APL
earnest jolt
Galecaller
onyx wind
just
twilit belfry
its also easy to fuck up an exsang and watch your dps fizzle out lol
onyx wind
my chars profilee for sims
woeful wraith
ma new meta boyz
onyx wind
if thats what u mean
elfin valley
So what did the nerf on SS mean for trait wise
fresh robin
sb?
brisk imp
SB seems like it would be awful for actual gameplay
onyx wind
Just tried
lone junco
+100% vuln 300k would be nice
hollow pine
@onyx wind Holy
fresh robin
oh sharpened
grim wolf
i thought the SS would've been more, but, i'm still simming around 14k which is respectable, def still gonna be an exsang boi
onyx wind
actually i didnt even havee EP up
lone junco
and sharp 300k hit is >> garrote over 12 sec
hollow pine
@onyx wind Well, this will be the next nerf
magic zenith
but with teeming fort it's time to break CT out!
lone junco
cause you could use a /use agi trinket
brisk imp
BlizzardLogic
onyx wind
hopeefully the latter
ember ermine
whats talents do you take with SB Exeo?
brisk imp
nerf whatever is best, instead of making bad traits better
frosty gyro
People are going to start using SB to meme 1shot in pvp
tropic hull
this will be better for sub coz symbols
ember ermine
👌
pseudo light
what is pog
hollow pine
SB will escalate better with Sub, I think.
silent plinth
sb already got nerfed for pvp
strange python
@craggy nimbus may be worth simming with MA also.
onyx wind
SB is sick for sub
strange python
@hollow pine SB will defo have higher value with sub due to SoD and Dance
onyx wind
I think subterfuge isnt bis with SB
hollow pine
@strange python Exactly!
hollow pine
@onyx wind Exactly! 😄
strange python
However with either a crit SB or 50% damage SB it could have a significant punch with assa
feral nest
BS over EP is simming higher for my 3xSS
shadow token
i lost about 700 dps but xsang still ahead of tb -- no galecaller
strange python
On use its still good. Paired with a vanish CD it could push it over ?
sick vine
i mean its not high ranked on blood mallet but i see ppl use it alot
onyx wind
i will feel good in a non-sexual way if blindside becomes meta
hollow pine
Gonna do some tests tonight. I really hate nerfs, but it's soo cool to test new things.
small island
Whats laser matrix +5/+10?
ember ermine
EXE 
earnest jolt
SB looks cool but mehhhh
bleak jungle
@onyx wind What traits?
strange python
@hollow pine rather a balance. It was rediculous
onyx wind
3x SB
bleak jungle
Gotcha
keen hound
switching up gear w/ the ss nerf to 2x sb 1x dagger in the back (don't have 3x sb and the 1x dagger is a 355 piece not 340)... My top talents now show as Master Assassin and Toxic Blade
bleak jungle
with what talents?
stable yarrow
wut trait is SB
strange python
SB is an aoe nerf. SS was potent aoe and st
earnest jolt
Sharpend blade
bleak jungle
Sharpened blades
solar zealot
Jesus fuck
earnest jolt
Reeeeee
bleak jungle
Lol...
dense quest
lol
hollow pine
@strange python That's the issue we have with the game now. It's easier to nerf the best specs/traits/etc than buffing the weak ones.
onyx wind
370
bleak jungle
DAmn
zealous lily
guys thanks for finding the next trait that blizzard will nerf
dense quest
was that vanish throw knife with 3x sb?
solar zealot
Assa ST trait figured out
zealous lily
I will be sure to use it this week until the end of the week when it will be nerfed again
ember ermine
exeo is 3x SB probably best for what you are testing right?
onyx wind
@dense quest Yes
zealous lily
At that point we will just look for another trait that blizzard will nerf again until no traits are good and it doesn't matter
slender peak
Blizzards guide to azurite tuning. Nerf everything till they are all equally crappy then people might try other traits
hollow pine
@onyx wind is the responsible for all the nerfs we got guys. Pitchforks! 😄
silent plinth
i mean 3x sb always existed, ss just overshadowed it
hollow pine
@onyx wind Are you logs on public now?
static shore
@onyx wind u wear 3xSB?
red fiber
The bad thing about Subtlety is having to choose between falling behind in ST or MT.
tiny vapor
Is the nerf live on raidbot now ?
static shore
@onyx wind today still ss?
red fiber
That's the lovely thing about Sin, sustained damage both on MT and ST with pretty much the same talents.
onyx wind
ayee
tiny vapor
Lost 700 dps kek
steep citrus
remember when we said ilvl would be king? we've figured out how to accomplish this. make all the traits worth 0.
red fiber
I read that like '700k' and I was like, how even.
frosty gyro
I wonder how hard Sub can hit with ST
stuck shuttle
I lost 400 dps
onyx wind
Damn, now arcanee will only be as bad as the second best spec
zinc skiff
So the nerfs went through I take it?
final stone
@stuck shuttlenice dude I lost 600 haha
red fiber
Kirvin, you awakened my curiosity.
red fiber
I shall ask in Sub CH
tough whale
stuck shuttle
@final stone i acctually lost 800 but equipped the 370 chest i had
onyx wind
also please dont analyze my taloc kill
stuck shuttle
and it added 400 dps
onyx wind
i was leegit trolling with my friends
stuck shuttle
@tough whale how big of a drop is that for you?
feral shoal
is raidbots now updated? The version on nightly says 16. September.
fierce knoll
385 chest is a downgrade from my 355
final stone
@stuck shuttle I don't have any other high pieces so I'm stuck where I'm at lol
strange python
I am actually mad that my 370 contruct overcharger is a downgrade from 345 gale
tough whale
double dose helmet 
fierce knoll
rip
full elk
is the hotfix actually live in eu?
ripe nimbus
Why is there like 3 versions of laser matrix on blood mallet
tough whale
its a patch so no not live
magic dawn
isn't master assassain better now cause of the garrote trait nerf?
tough whale
itll be live on your weekly reset
stuck shuttle
@tough whale yep double dose is simming much higher for me now
frosty gyro
Construct overcharger is garbage
full elk
it said hotfix on mmo
frosty gyro
But gale is also way overvalued
full elk
ah
keen hound
going from 3x ss swapping around gear and talents i'm at a roughly 200 dps loss
strange python
yeah pls buff CO, but also dont nerf Gale
hollow pine
@tough whale When have your trinkets started to sim better than darkmoon's trinket?
final stone
@stuck shuttle dd best trait now
tough whale
At 370, its a dice and a gcb
viscid pawn
i dont rly understand how to sim for mythic+. do i just do an advanced sim with this pastebin?
raid_events+=/stun,first=48,cooldown=60,duration=12
raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,cooldown=60,duration=44
raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,cooldown=60,duration=46
raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,cooldown=60,duration=48
tough whale
that smashes dmf deck
frosty gyro
@strange python You aren't always going to get to stand in gale and get the full buff that's why it's so strong
onyx wind
Maybe exs/galecaller/ss is still better than tb/sb
strange python
yeah
hollow pine
@tough whale Awesome. Good to know
tough whale
galecallers is also very strong because itll snapshot your haste when you exang it
strange python
yeah i do like the burst
tough whale
So youre adding 1k+ on top of your exang burst
fiery sage
lost 800 dmg
pulsar bluff
lone junco
@onyx wind for me. 3x SS GC is bis. Im trying to push something over it, but no luck so far.
frosty gyro
Wait dots snapshot haste?
ebon prism
Is sin still a bit higher than the other specs in regards to dps for difficulty?
frosty gyro
Or is it just exsang
tough whale
just exang
onyx wind
Did you try with 3x SB and TB?
ember ermine
exeo whats your toons name?
lone junco
@onyx wind doing that now.
onyx wind
Cyria-stormscale
ebon prism
@tough whale so it's performing better than sub/outlaw overall?
frail gate
So I guess we don't play exsang with ss traits now, back to tbbbbb
final stone
Is bloodmallet updated
dusky fulcrum
i dont aprecciate you telling me what part of my body to use @tough whale
fiery sage
3 times SS and lost 800 dmg but gain 200 on switch trait to 1 titans
tough whale
Youd have to sim yourself and see where you stand
onyx wind
You still play exsang with ss and galecaller
tough whale
The specs are VERY even so really just see what tools blizzard RNG has given you and use them
glacial sand
Does reorig array stack if you have 2 pieces with it?
grim sable
no
steep citrus
no
ebon prism
Oh, I thought sin was a clear winner for overall mythic uldir, with sub ahead on zul
magic dawn
nah exsang can be agead.
ebon prism
Did the Nerf even everything out?
cloud frost
oh no guys, SS getting the nerf finally 😦
brave pasture
How bad is the ss nerf?
cloud frost
40%
true rapids
If i never had archive of the titans selected do I still get stacks for killing bosses?
feral shoal
0 DPS!
dusky fulcrum
hollow pine
@cloud frost Really? That's not possible!
frosty gyro
@true rapids yep
strange python
Reorigination array will stack
steep citrus
yes, you still get stacks as long as you kill 3 bosses each week
strange python
if you have it or not
true rapids
coolcool
dusky fulcrum
u dont need to item to get the "stacks"
crisp gate
so they nerfed shrouded but they didnt even fix the 4 garrote bug??? THANK YOU BLIZZ
dusky fulcrum
its like the pantheon trinket upgrade item
frosty gyro
Gonna bonus roll Mythrax I think 🤔
torpid jackal
do we still run subterfuge with SB?
frosty gyro
I want to laser matrix hat
safe root
simmit
steep citrus
sim just assumes everyone uses subterfuge
wary temple
How good is frenetic Corpulscle with buff?
dusky fulcrum
Sim has been out for 6 minutes and ppl already ask questions as if we've had access to it for months
cold meteor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mXaSjfADxLFXWs7FQvCmK2 not that bad tho
frosty gyro
I mean just based on simple math I'm going to say for ST no
frosty gyro
Nightstalker is clearly better
strange python
Whats the 4 garrote bug 🤔
rapid sandal
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
safe root
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
dusky fulcrum
oh u have 370 wep, nvm
onyx wind
oh my god
safe root
lool
exotic abyss
Im dumb forgot to sim before heading to bed
frail gate
Pins said Bloodmallet/Hero would be updated, have they been updated yet?
true rapids
ignorance is bliss
zealous lily
if you have a raidbots account you can see your past sims
rapid sandal
question: TB vs exsang, which is stronger currently?
onyx wind
depeends on your gear
crisp gate
if SB is the new meta I'm done w/ sin
dusky fulcrum
i love how ppl have lower ilvl than me but 40 ilvls better weapons
zealous lily
we actually dont know
rapid sandal
i only have 1 SS, probably speccing out of it
onyx wind
and traits
exotic fractal
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tUJuq2xhGQ7hgsNpHqMNta how the fuck do you people sim so high
cold meteor
for me exsang sim 50 higher
dusky fulcrum
@exotic fractal they have 380+ ilvl weapons.. they are lucky dogs
exotic abyss
So now it tells me 2x SS + 1 Archive is than my 3x SS
onyx wind
unless ur 3x ss, ahvent checkeed that
exotic abyss
with GC
rapid sandal
ah
smoky lantern
why no galecallers?
light kestrel
Huh. I'm simming the same damage ditching SS, running TB, and using MA instead of subt
tough whale
1ss and im still 600 above sub/outlaw, yikes
rapid sandal
ive actually never even considered running exsang hence the dumb qu
craggy carbon
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Do my azerite traits stack?
The damage part of azerite Stacks.
Other components can be assumed to stack however with some exceptions and limitations.
You can check https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/1t-t22-assassination for estimations.
onyx wind
@light kestrel there is no APL for that
cold meteor
@exotic fractal maybe more optimized stats
onyx wind
it makes no sense to sim like that for now
pure sparrow
Is Simulationcraft updated?
exotic fractal
i dont know, i had enough haste to the point where it was simming worse than crit/vers/mastery for me
onyx wind
If you sim with subterfuge (which is probably worse than the other two options for SB), you can compare
rapid sandal
exsang on cd then? or hold for procs/vanish? gonna sim to check
onyx wind
use it on CD
rapid sandal
assumed as much
onyx wind
also use galecaller on CD
craggy carbon
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
light kestrel
Ah, I only have access to 1 SB, so I was using lazer matrix/archive/SoB
onyx wind
only hold vanish and vendetta for eachother
onyx wind
Seems like its not worth it to hold
lone junco
@onyx wind nvm. 3 sharp is over my 3ss.
primal violet
is double dose good at all, i dont have sb traits, only 2x DD and 2x SS, with 1 overlap in the shoulders....
rapid sandal
nothing seems worth to hold anymore
onyx wind
@lone junco welcome to the SB club
steel wagon
so raidbots is telling me that 1x archive of the titans is better than 1x SS
onyx wind
because 1x any uldir is a big upgradee
cold meteor
@primal violet my best sim is 1SS 1DD 1Titan, patchwerk 5min
hollow flicker
so is SB>SS in m+?
onyx wind
You cant reeaelly compare 2nd row traits
nova dirge
simcraft updated?
lone junco
the NS Sharp APL is probably not right yet
rapid sandal
i dislike subterfuge, hoping NS will catch up at some point 😛
solar zealot
Imo both NS and Subt are bland.
vestal wren
sudoku 
SB with on cd vs align it with vanish with nightstalker.
report:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iXgAoiuq2ktCSJEz5YqKxL
solar zealot
But at least gives us reasons to vanish
kindred abyss
but move speed in stealth!
primal violet
i like subterfuge cause i pvp a lot so im just used to having it, and its a must have in pvp
rapid sandal
its not that subterfuge is bland, i just hate the hotbarswap for 3 secs
stresses me out
frosty gyro
Well Nightsalker would be good for pvp to do the super crit 1shots
polar latch
Is raidbot simming using updated traits already?
steep citrus
the current apl is not completely useless. it still tries to take advantage of nightstalker or master assassin
hollow pine
Haste buffs our auto attack speed?
steep citrus
it just doesn't force poison knife into that
gleaming condor
energy regeneration
onyx wind
180k*0.6
onyx wind
63k crit
vestal wren
ill check if its a win if i put the gear pieces higher
glacial jasper
Dropped below 14k sad face
lone junco
nice
coral meteor
Dumb question but what do the +5/+10 bits mean on bloodmallet trait sims?
frosty gyro
Also play Dark Iron Dwarf
onyx wind
stacks
lone junco
360k is a lot.
onyx wind
on traits
shut robin
look in pin
frosty gyro
Welp
dusky fulcrum
i only lost 340 dps, even tho both my SS and lazer matrix got nerfed 😮
onyx wind
in 7 weeeks
frosty gyro
TB Sin and my Sub sim 2 dps apart
wintry parcel
@onyx wind are you able to factor in p p resistances? I'm curious what that would hit a player for
frosty gyro
🤔
honest needle
Please tell me this is good for us i just got it from the world boss https://gyazo.com/bfe45f862b6066bd0b30965b8301607d
lone junco
garrote mut rupture vendetta mut mut rupture vanish Knife TB env spam. ?
wintry parcel
PvP*
frosty gyro
Guess it doesn't matter what I play now
dusky fulcrum
it's probably very good for sub
steep citrus
360k. that's like 20 seconds of top tier dps in one global
frosty gyro
@lone junco You would build stacks until the end of vendetta and vaniosh knife then
primal violet
what is the go to traits for PvP now? DD?
coral meteor
My fault, thought it'd be too dumb/obvious to be there but I overcompensated for this discord again 
vestal wren
i checked with 3x 385 and it was still not above
ancient sonnet
wait so have the trait changes happened?
viscid pawn
raidbots got updated now? checked pins, ty!
main blaze
Wait.. archive of the titan was supposed to be buffed by 20% but Im only getting 9% more
vestal wren
you can just run a sim on raidbots @onyx wind ^^
ember ermine
onyx wind
What does the nightstalker APL do on raidbots tho
frosty gyro
@onyx wind pvp yeah pve probably not but maybe need apls for it too many variables. Subterfuge probably more base damage but you have to waste a gcd every time you pandemic it for far less damage efficiency.
coral meteor
I imagine it'd vanish envenom
solar summit
are the nerfs already live on EU?
coral meteor
but idk
onyx wind
someonee
earnest tangle
I'm assuming sims are calculating overwhelming power as if you aren't taking damage at all, right? So Heed is better just because of that?
surreal lodge
is there any hope for this trinket, sims worse than every thing i have lol
ember ermine
crit on me dad
onyx wind
pm me real-id
strange python
got 385 DD chest hoping this is v strong
onyx wind
horde EU
coral meteor
It's weird because it looks good on paper
tough whale
385 dd helm :^)
silent plinth
my 2x ss does more dmg than my 2sb?
onyx wind
@surreal lodge think its gonna get buffed someday
ember ermine
I'm na 
buoyant bay
its fucking impossible to parse well rn
lilac lily
Raidbots is updated with the azerite traits changed, right? Lost about 730 dps FeelsBadMan
buoyant bay
fuck me
surreal lodge
@onyx wind im keeping it in my bags as hope
frosty gyro
@surreal lodge probably not but just hold on to it they have buffed other raid trinkets I';m hoping the fix the bug with the tentacle trinket and it will be good
noble zenith
whats your go to raidbot setting to sim for M+?
surreal lodge
they just buffed frenetic corpsucle im excited to resim mine Pog
coral meteor
Then again spose gale line perfectly with a lot of burst
coral meteor
cos you have control over it
inner pulsar
Hey guys, did you hear about these nerfs? Are they in raidbots yet?!
coral meteor
(Still fucking hate it though)
honest needle
does any 1 kno if this is considered a top trinket for us https://gyazo.com/bfe45f862b6066bd0b30965b8301607d
frosty gyro
Galecallers sims high because A:Snapshotting exsang and B:Assuming you get 100% uptime in the buff
coral meteor
if i wanted to sit inside a rune id play mage
onyx wind
@honest needle think that one is not that good
lone junco
@coral meteor /use alignment is different than random proc.
gleaming condor
@still escarp it’s okay
tough whale
sim yourself and stop linking the trinket
gleaming condor
@honest needle it’s okay
cedar elk
now i got lazer matrix chest and archive of the titans, the array doesnt stack i assume right
young creek
hey guys is this good? heheh xd
primal violet
no its terrible
chilly obsidian
no hehexd
young creek
lone junco
@young creek it's ok.
onyx wind
yeah its terrible
vestal wren
i would sell it
onyx wind
it forces you to play exsang
mighty canyon
Anyone mind DMing? I have some questions around the general rotation for assassination. 😃
ember ermine
onyx wind
over TB->SB
inner pulsar
Scrap it
onyx wind
lmaooooooo
elder cypress
i have the same on first run shrine 9
tough whale
haste simming at 2.29 jeeZUS
strange python
bye bye SS, top sim has no need for you
chilly obsidian
hey so how much of a dps loss was the nerf to SS anyways?
coral meteor
lilac lily
With 3x SS I lost 700ish dps
hollow pine
I lost 700 dps
ember ermine
enough for you to
coral meteor
I have too much time on my hands
young creek
1k for ST, like 15% in m+
tough whale
@coral meteor ? im not on ravenholdt
plucky gale
not a 40% nerf just the bonus damge @onyx wind
undone cairn
tfw exsang sims 5 dps higher than tb
onyx wind
Isnt that the samee?
zinc skiff
Anyone know the new king trait or is that still the go to
plucky gale
no its not the same
tough whale
@coral meteor But i hella respek that
coral meteor
🤔
onyx wind
whats the difference
dapper moat
wonder why im so low :/ must be the daggers?
tough whale
OH SHIT
elfin tiger
guys how worse is shrouded suffocation gonna get? im using 3x sf and 3x heed
coral meteor
THAT RAVENHOLDT
tough whale
I GOT BAITED AND OUTSMARTED
coral meteor
LMFAO
frosty gyro
@zinc skiff WEHAT CONTENT
coral meteor
I HAVENT HEARD THAT IS SO LONG
tough whale
cy@ im gonna go cry
coral meteor
GR8 CONTENT
zinc skiff
UHH M+ @frosty gyro
frosty gyro
@zinc skiff for M+ SS
silent plinth
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3Fna8mSUh9wwZaZwtbyXUi whats going on here? should 2x sb not outsim 2x ss even with a 355 chest vs 340? even with tb it still outsims
solid field
I only sim at 12005 at 348 ilvl. Feelsbadman
coral meteor
I fucking forgot all about that video
zinc skiff
@frosty gyro THANK YOU KIND SIR
lone junco
I lost like 5.4%.
plucky gale
@onyx wind they only nerfed the traits bonus damage, not garrotes damage
onyx wind
ofc
bright stump
is the nerf live on raidbots?
elfin tiger
How bad is the Shrouded Suffocation nerf?
ember ermine
smoky lantern
6-7%
plucky gale
Not that bad
tough whale
The nerf is live on raidbots
strange python
it forces other traits up
elfin tiger
@smoky lantern 6-7% off garrote damage?
tough whale
Im still using a SS chest because it at 370 still > 340
smoky lantern
overall
lone junco
I lost like 5.4%.
north terrace
5.3% overall for me
shadow token
i mean i am def wearing at least 1 ss for juicy combo points
frosty gyro
I'm using a SS chest because 385 > 355 🤔
elfin tiger
FeelsBadMan
onyx wind
3xSB crits for 26k without nightstalker
shadow token
plus i got a 370 ss chest which is better than any shit 340 i have
exeo was that in pvp?
exotic abyss
370 Archive beats my 340 SS Shoulder so goes from 3SS to 2xSS
shadow token
ya they nerfed it in pvp a while ago
north terrace
Honestly may be a bit less of you have archive or laser at a higher ilvl
lone junco
@onyx wind what is stack time?
zealous lily
before: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aQGKqfHUC4UcNKuVLiTcQQ after: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eJ3zPV3tT1cWWbF1zv3Ehz
shadow token
because it was doing like 75k crits
valid pine
SS still best trait?
onyx wind
Takes like 30sec maybe
elfin tiger
is the nerf on simcraft nightly yet?
potent forge
Is there ever be point to nightstalker? It's only 50% damage to garrote on opener and subterfuge is 80%
ember ermine
didn't they nerf sb like 2 weeks ago in pvp
onyx wind
They did
vestal wren
@zealous lily solid 7% dps loss
onyx wind
26k crit with vendeetta and EP up
undone cairn
It is on simc
bright stump
600 dps lost
onyx wind
with nightstalker it would be 39k crit
zealous lily
yeah it's the third time it's happened to me this expansion that I've lost about 1k dps
elfin tiger
why do they keep nerfing rogues 😐
bright stump
thats pretty sad tbh
valid pine
assassination dead now or we still good?
zealous lily
each with a different spec
stuck shuttle
How do we set the Raidbots Discord bot to automatically sim with Reorigination array?
lone junco
Garrote mut mut rupture vendetta /use vanish knife tb env spam. Ish.
glacial sand
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pU5qKZhQCVMakkJr8Xzr1Q
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cTMGd2CFJBU5Sb7JFLfsn8
Blizzard trying to force my hand here it seems.
north terrace
Maybe a new spec and stuff will come out with the nightly lol
onyx wind
Assa is still the best rogue spec
lone junco
Meh
onyx wind
Both ST and MT
north terrace
Err the apl i meant
fringe valley
`when using the Sim, do I need to adjust anything in the APLs or is that auto done for us?
valid pine
garote trait still the best?
undone cairn
Rip apparently my 340 SS is the best traits I have
lone junco
Nightly is live.
ebon prism
@onyx wind for raiding or M+? A lot of ppl saying sub is now better
lone junco
Do you have bits. To make your sub better?
steep citrus
bits of what?
honest needle
is blood mallet updated for best traits ?
onyx wind
its not better
lone junco
Cookies.
steep citrus
mmm, crumbs
onyx wind
but sin is betteer on aoe
north terrace
I mean sub was above sin beforw their 5% nerf so... a 5-7% nerf for sin would theoretically put it back under
primal violet
is DD any good now?
unborn leaf
@onyx wind what traits when you want for M+?
undone cairn
Blade in the shadows
ember ermine
with pb or ct exeo
onyx wind
PB
frosty gyro
@onyx wind you should really be comparing 2x SB + 1x LM for each spec since ST really matters for raid where everyone wants LM
gusty parcel
380 My'das trinket in chest feels good
steep citrus
did archive buff and lm nerf make any diference?
ebon prism
What's LM?
steep citrus
or LM still top?
main blaze
laser matrix
primal violet
laser matrix
ebon prism
Ty
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
elfin tiger
Eh I went from 13100 to 11877. had 3 SS equipped. good bye assassin i guess
undone cairn
Sims lower than ss
north terrace
Its archive any good is the real question
undone cairn
340 that is
delicate crater
simming 200 dps higher with 3x SB over 3x SS now
tight hinge
is bloodmallet updated with nerf?
silver egret
double dose is the same as it was before, no?
frosty gyro
@onyx wind idk because LM is good due to array which is more about sendary stat scaling and SB works differently at 2 compared to 3 tbh idk if it's even the best at 2 for both specs
lilac lily
Is Bloodmallet updated?
onyx wind
Pretty sure haste is big as fuck with 3x SB
unborn leaf
is 3x SB going to be best for M+ as well?
north terrace
Neither are updated
manic nexus
was hoping they'd fix garrote bug with shrouded nerf, lol no
vestal wren
yes you need to use raidbots for now, hd will be up to date soon™
red fiber
3xSS still wins in M+
frosty gyro
@onyx wind yeah but 2x sb not 3x. 2x SB for sin is way less than 2x sb for sub. Also secondary weights for sin are lower than sub I think
ebon prism
@onyx wind got it. So if you take 2 players that can manage 90% of both specs, sin would come up ahead in both ST and MT for M+ and raiding?
cedar anchor
what are you calling sb @onyx wind
red fiber
Sharpened blades
frosty gyro
@red fiber oh definitely ss for M+
red fiber
Gear azerite trait
little sparrow
M+ is all about flexibility, if you're focusing on ST only or MT only you're going to have a bad time. Unless it's insanely tipped one way or another, SS will probably still be the best trait.
fringe ginkgo
TB on CD? ♿
onyx wind
I cant reeally say for sure
red fiber
@cedar anchor , forgot to mention, my bad.
onyx wind
With my traits, sin is always better
hazy sphinx
Sharpened blades is gonna be king for single target.