assassination

[sudden brook]

i dont think they have a problem with a trait being best, i think they have a problem with a trait being WAY better like SS, deadshot, etc

[drifting orbit]

well but isnt that like blizzard handles its balancing since 12 years?

[wild zodiac]

saltstream

[winter fog]

do enemies have to live for the full duration of rupture to make it worth casting it over envenom?

[nimble tartan]

the official 40% ss funeral stream

[drifting orbit]

lmao

[nimble tartan]

pour some 40s out for ya bois in red

[grim wolf]

updated sims aren't out yet right?

[strange python]

Check the pins

[hard plaza]

u can do it manually @grim wolf check Fus Pin

[drifting orbit]

3x SB stacking it is

[keen inlet]

What guy said

[strange python]

I went from 14.4K to 13K LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUL

[keen inlet]

Ss was a clear outlier

[cold patio]

~400dps lose for me with that change from pin (2xSS)

[dawn merlin]

holy cow

40%

[indigo mulch]

485 for me.

[drifting orbit]

but SS is still fine since lazer and blast got nerfed

[cunning pebble]

1,3k nerf here too

[strange python]

Fuck this I'm going Sub

[nimble tartan]

1.3k 👀

[strange python]

At least I can crush Zul when we get there

[north terrace]

Woo 700dps loss

[marble valley]

https://puu.sh/BwX5c/3f7e5058cf.png easy 800 dps loss 👏

[nimble tartan]

oh my lord

thats quite a lot

im afraid to check mine i was using 3 ss at 15.3k

[strange python]

Yeah you're fucked

[nimble tartan]

pray 4 me

[strange python]

Expect 14K

[drifting orbit]

more like

[nimble tartan]

ive prepared for this moment

[drifting orbit]

13.5

[nimble tartan]

i have sub and outlaw both simming 15.2k

[north terrace]

14k>13.3

[strange python]

Sub sims 13.9K for me

Might as well just switch

[timid grotto]

3x DD only 200 dps better than 3x SS

[surreal cosmos]

What ur Item-Lvl?

[drifting orbit]

got no sub traits im fucked anyways

[dawn merlin]

so, where does this put SS in terms of azerite traits prio?

[strange python]

like

[nimble tartan]

outlaw buff with archive of the titans pog

[marble valley]

I'm 365 eq

[strange python]

lower middle

[dawn merlin]

uff

I have no replacements

[strange python]

Yeah

[drifting orbit]

i wouldnt say lower middle

[nimble tartan]

im 370-371 equipped on sub/outlaw 367 equip as sin

[strange python]

You should save all azerite pieces you get

cuz who knows

It might get a 200% buff (!!!)

[dawn merlin]

I did, I did

they're dreadful tho

[strange python]

I had

3xDS

[drifting orbit]

i would say top, maybe double dose above it but thats it

[strange python]

3xBitS

3xSS

[slender smelt]

Is bloodmallet/herp damage updated yet guys?

[strange python]

all nerfed

😢

[slender smelt]

Hero*

[timid grotto]

no

[north terrace]

@slender smelt not yet

[slender smelt]

Ty

[strange python]

Is Archive going to be the top Uldir-specific trait now

post Matrix nerf

[sudden brook]

i like the fact that they are making an effort to make the traits more balances, especially with nerfing the generic raid traits

[nimble tartan]

perhaps nadem

[sudden brook]

kinda sucks rn bcuz you just hop between traits every week but eh, i can live with it

[modern osprey]

soooo many people simming rn

[strange python]

I can't guy

[nimble tartan]

can we complain about nerf traits and having it cost us gold to respec

[strange python]

Maks me wanna go

RREEEEEEE

[nimble tartan]

to give us free week of azerite reforging

[sudden brook]

[nimble tartan]

eventually turning into turning off the gold cost 4ever

[strange python]

lol yeah

[nimble tartan]

because all my specs use the same fuckin pieces

[strange python]

They should just get rid of the gold cost

[modern osprey]

can we just complain in order to remove the azerite traits?

[sudden brook]

i think thats a fair complaint

[grim wolf]

like 600 dps loss with the nerf, i honestly thought it would be worse.

[sudden brook]

they arent going to remove azerite

[hard plaza]

the gold cost is a bit silly

[strange python]

brb going to sui my rogue

[vast edge]

can we actually just have azerite system be removed and give us a system thats engaging and fun instead?

[sudden brook]

so theres no reason to scream about it until the next expansion is released

[solar summit]

They should just remove azerite traits

[strange python]

There are lots of things silly this expac

especially around Azerite

[main rain]

I'd rather farm tiersets than azerite gear

[sudden brook]

i dont

[kind roost]

75k crits with 3 sb and it still feels like ass

[solar summit]

Same here

[vestal abyss]

All fun and games but hwne is taht livestream

[strange python]

Not being able to trade azerite initially "because people might feel a social pressure to trade pieces they want to try"

[sudden brook]

tier sets were just as boring as azerite

[nimble tartan]

one week i was stuck as one spec because i didnt want to pay 5k to respec and double

[strange python]

Gold to respec

[nimble tartan]

and it doesnt reset on weekly it resets every 3 days

and it doesnt reset all the way

it only halves

[strange python]

Can't get them from m+, raid ones sucked compared to non-raid ones

[nimble tartan]

i love wow 🙂

[kind roost]

ive gotten my respec to 20k

idk if it goes higher lol

[strange python]

M+ week cache is random and could give you Azerite,

[nimble tartan]

lmao wtf amiray

[timber nacelle]

same

[strange python]

Yeah it goes higher

[sudden brook]

it has bad luck protection at least

[lost coral]

Whazz had 160k respec yesterday

[flint fable]

Guildie had to pay 70k to raid last week

[strange python]

Yeah but no protection against getting a useless piece

[kind roost]

good lord

[strange python]

or a piece you already have something good in

[sudden brook]

well duh

how can a system define "useless"

[grim wolf]

nerfs haven't gone live yet right?

on NA

[vast edge]

just gives us 370 azerite from m+10 355 from +7 and 340 from +4 cus atleast then we can try to get the traits we need since blizzard CANT FUCKING BALANCE SHIT

[nimble tartan]

yo someone should just spend gold to make a point and have the respec cost the price of a wow token Reddit thread title: "Dear Blizzard, I have to buy a WoW token with cash to turn into gold just to switch specs please help" Reforge cost 150k

[dawn merlin]

so, in uldir, archive > ss probably no?

[lost coral]

you legit pay more than 20€ to respec

[timber nacelle]

traits still matter? thought ilvl over all now

[nimble tartan]

who wants to spend the gold for the guaranteed karma

[misty hemlock]

will I now be forced to use SB or what? cause i hate that trait

[strange python]

@lost coral yup

fucking trash game

[obtuse island]

With the SS nerf, where does that put us? Should I scrap my 3xSS? Or is it still BiS (just obviously weaker)

[strange python]

Double Dose will be good probably

[vast edge]

fuck SB

[strange python]

dd will be good st

[kind roost]

sb feels so unfun

[strange python]

Also, they didn't fix the bug right?

[kind roost]

even with crazy crits

[strange python]

😏

did they fuck fix the bug

[vast edge]

no SS bug fix as we know it

[strange python]

its blizzard

useless cunts

[dire lintel]

the simc override is foe the ss nerf?

[sudden brook]

wait until reset it might be fixed but no report on one yet

[fallow sinew]

so they nerf a trait that was bugged ggwp bliz

[misty hemlock]

@dire lintel yes

[dire lintel]

kk will try then 😃

[misty hemlock]

without even fixing it

lol

[dire lintel]

?

[kind roost]

i mean yyou cant deny the trait was overpowered as fuck

40% is a bit much tho

[sudden brook]

it was a 40% nerf to help deal with how strong it was in M+

[dawn merlin]

jesus christ tho

[misty hemlock]

blizzard can go fuck themselfes with their PTR version of an expansion

[broken fiber]

balancing classes around m+

[sudden brook]

ok what do u balance classes around then

[normal surge]

raids

[sudden brook]

M+ is a huge end game content sink

[vast edge]

M+ doesnt have azerite gear tho 😃

[sudden brook]

you cant just NOT balance around essentially half the end game

[normal surge]

and they have done exactly that with that nerf

[dire lintel]

btw with this nerf exan or toxic? ^^

[strange python]

Don't stack SB btw

[sudden brook]

but it was absurd in both ST and M+

[worthy carbon]

900~ dps loss from the nurf jesus

[timber nacelle]

tb

[strange python]

They will almost guaranteed nerf it

[red geyser]

Listen, I'm just as salty as the next person about it but....when I'm doing 35k dps every pull of 4 mobs in m+ and the next closes person is at 20k....there's an issue

[sudden brook]

it wasnt JUST good in M+, it was good vs everything

[misty hemlock]

oh you want azerite gear? yeah can't get that from m+ sorry. Oh you finally got you gear with the one useful perk that's not a generic one and actually changes your playstyle somewhat? Yeah fuck that too

[kind roost]

im just gonna go 1 ss 2 sb

fuck it

[lost coral]

@worthy carbon and that is ST, 3-4 targets is gonna be shit now

[sudden brook]

jesus christ this is such a circlejerk

[kind roost]

in what way is this a circle jerk

youre talking to one guy

[strange python]

Havoc DH will be what Sin rogues were in M+ damage now

[kind roost]

is he jerking himself off

wtf

?

[valid meadow]

well two guys can jerk eachother off

[vast edge]

if azerite gear dropped from m+ i would count m+ as end game content.. but now its either pray to rngesus or hope a leather user in a raid can trade it to you

[strange python]

compared to the rest of the pack

where can i read hotfixxes

[modern osprey]

go full ss and then switch to outlaw when they nerf the living hell out of sin

[unreal coyote]

Guy is just a blizzard apologist

[valid meadow]

www.mmo-champion.com

[strange python]

it was Sin >>> Havoc >>>>>>>>> Everyone else

[unreal coyote]

Lol

[strange python]

now it's Havoc >>>>>>> Everyone else

[sudden brook]

how am i a blizzard apologist bcuz i think the assa trait was way too good in all forms of content

[kind roost]

people have different opinions whoda thunk it

[worthy carbon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rKpE6GchvP98D3raCw26FS before https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/skBuD889zqmXWgbYM3uDRe after

[strange python]

nice

[hard plaza]

374 😮

[valid meadow]

@nimble tartan well, we are gonna nerf the pimple for 40% less ugliness

[modern osprey]

noice

[strange python]

Gz on going back in progression m8

good job

[slender hare]

how are you simming with the nerf on raidbots?

[kind roost]

zoyt what level are your ss pieces

[strange python]

Check the pins Lauritz

[worthy carbon]

385+340 and a 370 laser

[slender hare]

ahh my bad

[strange python]

ooooooosssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[lone junco]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=287227/azerite-trait-tuning-coming-on-next-maintenance?webhook/azerite-trait-tuning-coming-on-september-17th

[vast edge]

i totally agree with the SS trait was to strong.. but just nerfing the trait that made assa good in m+ isnt the answer.. atleast give us some buffs in something else

[strange python]

Fuck Zoyt

I feel for you

[unreal coyote]

When you don't realize nerfing the trait that's like 35% of a specs dmg is uncalled for without also balancing the spec itself to compensate

[sudden brook]

assa was very very good in both ST and M+

it needed to get nerfed

[nimble tartan]

pray for my guy zoyt

today he lost almost 1k dps

[strange python]

Well, what is it now guy?

[wheat vigil]

So now what, 1 shrouded and 2 thunderous?

[dawn merlin]

@unreal coyote quite

[nimble tartan]

but that dps will not be forgotten

[strange python]

Decent in ST and below mediocre in AoE

[sudden brook]

????

[obsidian ridge]

thunderous got nerfed 35% ..

[nimble tartan]

#rememberthezoyt

[sudden brook]

its not medicore in aoe still

[strange python]

LOL

ok

[valid meadow]

Wait thunderous got nerfed aswell?

wtf

[strange python]

With a ramp up

So useless in M+

[sudden brook]

so afflicion warlock is bad in M+?
right

?

[obsidian ridge]

https://de.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=17623943014

[broken fiber]

Nerf all traits 😡

[obsidian ridge]

35% dmg reduction

on thrunderous

[valid meadow]

god damn i liked that one

[nimble tartan]

nerf all traits 😡

[royal harness]

btw why does https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/hd-t22-assassination-exsg rank ss as 6th place for m+ ?

isnt it #1 atm

[wheat vigil]

Shrouded was way better in m+ than in raids unless you just love parsing trash

[strange python]

Should just nerf all traits to be 500 dps

[nimble tartan]

because its not modeled properly for restealthing @royal harness

[sudden brook]

you didnt answer my question

[valid meadow]

what question?

[obsidian ridge]

i'm really happy about the thunderous nerf .. such a boring trait

[royal harness]

ah ok

[worthy carbon]

should just remove traits tbh

[obsidian ridge]

#removeallneutraltraitspls

[strange python]

Aff is ranged

They're way more flexible because of it

[valid meadow]

give me some fucking buffs on haste traits so i don't have to have 33% downtime on my energy

[sudden brook]

so because they are ranged, their ramp damage is good

[valid meadow]

reeeeeeeeee

[strange python]

Yes?

@worthy carbon How did u apply the nerf in raidbots?

[sudden brook]

but rogues ramp damage bad?

[strange python]

Melee needs less ramp up because less time on target

[tropic hull]

not always

[worthy carbon]

in in the pins

[lone junco]

What do I do with all my haste now. 😐

Time for 30%crit

[north terrace]

Haste is still good lol

[lone junco]

Ok.

[valid meadow]

Is vigor a must have talent? I feel like my dps plummets like the twin towers as soon as i switch to deep stratagem

[wheat vigil]

Good thing we all have a bank tab full of standardized ilvl azerite

[sudden brook]

i mean SS is still going to be very very good in M+, sin still has slows, and gets to deal damage to bosses during downtime unlike sub/otl

[valid meadow]

I don't. Looks like item restoration it is

[lone junco]

You don't have enough crit to use DS.

[valid meadow]

Aah, so i could stack crit and go for DS instead?

[lone junco]

We ran 75% Mut crit I legion. Good luck with that

[wheat vigil]

If you’re using exsang

[north terrace]

Honestly this seems like it fucks us harder in raid than m+ but maybe that's just my bias since raid is all i actually care about lol

[obsidian ridge]

btw what do I do now for ST raid bosses? 1x ss 2x sb?

[keen inlet]

To those of you helping during this chaotic time, a sincere thank you, btw

[slender hare]

I'm losing 663 dps with 3 SS traits, thought it would be way worse

[strange python]

I lost like 1.3K

[tropic hull]

DS good for sub and outlul ( ace trait )

[slender hare]

damn lol

[strange python]

That's what happens when you optimize 😦

[wheat vigil]

I would t count on it being modeled properly yet

[sullen pagoda]

@keen inlet ill help you with transition to sub 😛

[strange python]

Thank fuck I've got a lot of play time with all the classes

[strange python]

Sub is a lot of fun

[modest zodiac]

The end is here

[worthy carbon]

feels bad when im going to have to spend 100k rerolling azerite they should reset the cost when they nurf

[wheat vigil]

I don’t see how you could play sin from mythic zek onwards. So many adds

[dense yarrow]

Guys, TB or Exanguinate :/ i sim same with both but i see lots using exanguinate, is it that better if used correctly?

[modest zodiac]

tb

[amber sequoia]

exang is probably easier to do wrong

[wheat vigil]

Better burst. Use he one you’re good at

[modest zodiac]

exs harder to master, easier to mess up , but for little reward tbh

[true thistle]

To anyone crying that "assasination nerf was not needed"

[fathom lynx]

Which do you prefer? Honestly I think it's up to what playstyle you enjoy. If they're so close (which is good) then it does not matter that much

[true thistle]

pink is garrote

[strange python]

Before nerf:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5MT5pEg4jaSkZquiftk9mW
After nerf:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6EpzBmSJqGtbLaaLN9pMQk

[wheat vigil]

Nobody it said it wasn’t needed. It was just a bit much

[modest zodiac]

Damn today i just got the SS from the weekly chest feels super bad man

[vivid bone]

I'm only at 200 dps difference with 1 SS

so 🤷🏼

[true thistle]

^

[sullen pagoda]

why are people even linking ST sims that is irrelevant compared to aoe aka m+ nerf

[wheat vigil]

Darkglare nerf was needed too

[spare hawk]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4WA41LwiW5BD5DNGnqqxUr
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2XTyuHvfd33q4kZRjjKZpG

[white lance]

Do people only care about st damage? 🤔

[spare hawk]

(._ .)

[sudden brook]

yes

[vivid bone]

ofc

[slender hare]

SS should still be great for m+ being able to throw 3 SS garrotes or 6 with vanish

[strange python]

How to sim buffer archives

[lone cipher]

God damnit rip my 3 ss pieces

[strange python]

d

[wheat vigil]

St damage kills bosses

[sullen pagoda]

@white lance they are meme

[lone cipher]

and i was pushing for 1800 today

[modest zodiac]

I'm keeping 2 SS and 1 filthy

[slender hare]

arena? SS is bad for pvp

[lone junco]

RIP

[vast edge]

SS is only good if you can kill someone in the opener which doesnt happend often

[wheat vigil]

Triple fok traits for zek and zul!

[lone junco]

R I P

[sudden brook]

playing assa on zul

[drifting orbit]

my sub sims 100 deeps under assa, assa still broken!

[obsidian ridge]

I mean I simmed patchwerk 40seconds 3 targets. without nerf I got 36k with nerf I get 31k. It's less but is it the end of the world? nope

[kind roost]

@wheat vigil that sounds fun as fuck lol

[gloomy mason]

So which traits to aim for now ?

[warm cove]

lol im down 800 dps, from 13.3 to 12.5 ;/

[dawn merlin]

it's still a bit unfortunate that a fun trait that actually affects rotation gets nerfed like this

double dose is fun :DDDDD

[kind roost]

3 SB is simming highest for me atm

[strange python]

it needed a nerf

[sullen pagoda]

but mom i dont wanna play sub 👶 🍼

[lone cipher]

What traits would you say are better in arena then ?

[dawn merlin]

it did, might be a bit over the top

we'll see

[true thistle]

i guess i am rolling back to sub

[sudden brook]

twist the knife is apparently best in pvp

iirc

[true thistle]

1 week in assa

[wheat vigil]

The only thing it changed was where you used vendetta

[vast edge]

twist the knife or scent of blood

[edgy latch]

how do i sim with the nerf?

[dawn merlin]

and your opener?

[kind roost]

check pins

[true thistle]

[nimble tartan]

[dawn merlin]

and the CPs you get during opener?

[edgy latch]

damn, admins are quick with pins

[daring imp]

rant inc

[edgy latch]

rip

[nimble tartan]

[daring imp]

why the fuck i carry scrubs on high keys just to get no loot at the end

[hollow cloud]

probably because the panic in here was real

[daring imp]

the mage ended the fight with 4k dps

[hollow cloud]

and couldnt answer everyone

[daring imp]

FOUR K DPS

[wheat vigil]

If you drop to 0 traits yeah, but I’m still gonna run one for the cp

[kind roost]

story of my life ongbak

[prisma harbor]

so is the sky fallling or no? assuming wee are still gonna be fine just gonna have to switch out traits?

[modest zodiac]

yeah is SB is now best for sub abd ass

[daring imp]

fucking boralus

[modest zodiac]

i got 0 of those though

[kind roost]

i did 15 high level shrine keys in a row this week for galecallers

[dawn merlin]

we'll be fine

[kind roost]

only got a 355

[nimble tartan]

He deserves loot he completed the same dungeon :)

[wheat vigil]

@prisma harbor it’s some full on Melancholia shit

[daring imp]

he deserves shit

died every encounter

[modest zodiac]

Why do they nerf by 40%?? why not 20% ?

[daring imp]

and we spent bress on him

[vast edge]

@daring imp i normally have to do 4-6 m+ before getting an item.. while working my ass off to do mechanics and outdps the group.. great system

[obsidian ridge]

@kind roost wasn't that high level then 😛

[strange python]

you shouldn't blame the mage, blame blizzard

[dense yarrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v5keT7DbtbkxDabXVMZD5t

[daring imp]

he made 4min boss turn into a 1h20min one

[dense yarrow]

you reckin is worth going with exan for m+???

[strange python]

sure

[nimble tartan]

I love personal loot 🙂

[daring imp]

@strange python hell no i'll blame this piece of shit

[kind roost]

I took any shrine key over 7 i think

since it would be an upgrade over a 340 ver

[keen inlet]

@sullen pagoda get outta here troll lol

Reminder: the sky is always falling

[strange python]

@keen inlet you get out 😡

[keen inlet]

If it isn't you're new to rogue

[sudden brook]

reminder that the best spec is always the one you hate the most

[nimble tartan]

This guy is old

Im a young nubile rogue player

[tropic hull]

but i like assa 🤔

[strange python]

This is the best class discord tbqh

Well organized and the pins are up really quickly

[nimble tartan]

Ty nadem

[strange python]

Daily reminder that the class known as 'rogue' in World of Warcraft has ceased to exist as of 2018-09-18

[daring imp]

guys which's the best rogue spec atm?!?!

[rancid jungle]

can someone please explain to me how the garrote trait works, because I have two that say they're both adding 591 damage to garrote, so 1182, but it increases the damage of garrote by 5.3k per tick

[warm cove]

lol im simming almost 700 more as outlaw after ss nerf

[drifting orbit]

shadow

[sullen pagoda]

what do u mean im helpful boi @keen inlet

[amber sequoia]

havoc

[drifting orbit]

is best rogue spec

[sudden brook]

feral druid = best rogue spec

[mighty venture]

^

[obsidian ridge]

@rancid jungle together with subterfuge that's big boi dps. In the beginning of the fight you can put 3 buffed garrotes on targets (6 with vanish) and just watch everything bleed to death

[true thistle]

i will switch hunter

[amber sequoia]

I would say windwalker but im sure their sky is falling harder than ours lol

[rancid jungle]

yeah, but how does 1.1k equate to 5.3k

[true thistle]

all i will have to worry about is pain from smashing my head

[warm geode]

sad

[amber temple]

When is the SS trait fix online on raidbots, do you know?

[kind roost]

now if you use the pins

[modest zodiac]

@dense yarrow what traits u got

[strange python]

you can do it now

[edgy latch]

from 14k to 13.4k...

[strange python]

he has 3xSS

[amber temple]

@strange python alright, thanks :)

[drifting orbit]

any1 got the override data for the archives buff?

[strange python]

at least from what I can see on his gear icons

[dense yarrow]

@modest zodiac for m+, 3x SS

[obsidian ridge]

should also be affected by mastery and so on. Never rely on tooltip numbers btw

[strange python]

He has Gold-Tasseled Epaulets, Jerkin of the Aberrant Chimera and Cowl of Fluid Machinations

[dire steeple]

He also simmed a 120 sec long fight

[kind roost]

night everyone gl on your chests

[dire steeple]

[sullen pagoda]

@drifting orbit if you mean reorigination additional buff in uldir new simc addon version has added string for it

just update ur simc add on

[dull spruce]

@drifting orbit just increase your strat manually by 20%

stat*

[strange python]

now we can hope to get double dose/ sharpened blades azerite gear from chest

to be viable on st ?

[high venture]

Guys, i'm outlaw and i was thinkng to try Assa but then i saw this -> (Assassination) Shrouded Suffocation: Damage bonus reduced by 40%

is a big nerf?

[strange python]

Huge

[knotty dew]

nah

[strange python]

ded spec

[knotty dew]

not really

[strange python]

dont come here

i lose 1k dps

[obsidian ridge]

we rip now. time to go outlaw snek build

[strange python]

its big!

in times we do only 13/15k

it's not big, people are exaggerating

[knotty dew]

we're hardly talking about it here

[high venture]

im asking cz im interested to change

[warm geode]

-800 for me on ST, imagine on AoE

[high venture]

but i dont know whats this nerf exactly

so stop to troll comments

[strange python]

It is a big nerf

[worldly shard]

garrote nerf

[strange python]

if you want to try assassination, try it. we'll be fine

Massive nerf to aoe

burst aoe* especially

[worldly shard]

garrote is ltierally 50% of our damage lmao

[amber sequoia]

im most sad the replacement are ST traits, where SS was kinda flexible

[warm geode]

@worldly shard 35%

[strange python]

@warm geode considering ss traits x 3 at 340 dont give 800dps what item level is your gear?

[high venture]

but this nerf is only for a trait right? and is difficult to get that trait

[strange python]

Kinda

[warm geode]

@strange python 2x 340 1x 370

[strange python]

play it if you want to

[somber otter]

13.8k dps down to 10.2k dps WTF!?

[strange python]

It'll still be viable in raids

and pretty meh in M+

[high venture]

I mean i want to play the best one for m+

[obsidian ridge]

it's pretty easy to get the desired trait, no? just get a guild group full of leather users and threaten their family if they don't trade you the desired piece? easy

[strange python]

Not Sin

[quasi flower]

i went from 14.7 to 13.4

:S

[strange python]

@warm geode is that a guesstimate or simmed loss?

[shy mica]

I'm wondering if poison build is gonna be good if DD if the trait to go for

[strange python]

Sin m+ REALLY relied on that trait

[high venture]

I was outlaw and i see that assa was really nice there, and today i read that and idk what to do!

[strange python]

lol

stay outlaw

[hazy flame]

Dont sim exsang, sim tb

[frozen karma]

Went from 14.4k to 13.7k with 3x SS traits, not as bad as I thought I guess

[high venture]

why nadem

[broken fiber]

Imagine nerfing a trait and not fixing the bug

[shy mica]

man, tb is so zzz

[warm geode]

@strange python i use th string to apply the nerf, i have a simc with and without now, 14.4 withou nerf and 13.6 with nerf = -800 on ST

[obsidian ridge]

@frozen karma the ST nerf isn't that big. the aoe is where you will really notice it

[hazy flame]

Exsang is ded boys

[strange python]

My ST was hit hard

over 1K loss

[worldly shard]

what is an exsang lul

[strange python]

😢

[lilac basalt]

Sin is still going to be top for PvP right?

[frozen karma]

Good thing I play Outlaw in M+ anyway

[drifting orbit]

exsang is the best

[wild lily]

we are all destined to be pirates

[pseudo finch]

Was

[strange python]

@warm geode fair enough. I only sim 13.8 pre nerf

[dull spruce]

no ass is dead now even if you didnt use the trait

[drifting orbit]

tb is still shit

[wild lily]

next spec nerf is sub

[tidal sedge]

well now im forver sad 😦

[drifting orbit]

before i start using tb i will start using sb

[strange python]

Sub is really good in m+ anyway

[warm geode]

WHERE IS THE DH NERFS!!!!!!!!!!

[strange python]

So we dagger lads aren't fucked

[vivid bone]

I simmed 14k prenerf, simming 13.8k now

[wild lily]

unless they let us off the hook on zul

[drifting orbit]

yea but only on higher keys

[strange python]

LOL

playing lower keys

[river quarry]

What's SoB?

im blanking here.

[fierce knoll]

Even blizz was hinting for everyone to be pirate with all the non-dagger WQs

[fading cipher]

how much of a nerf is it btw?

[river quarry]

secrets of the deep?

o.o

[strange python]

Also next week is Fortified

So Sub will be even better

[fading cipher]

because i'm 14.9k prenerf

[drifting orbit]

true

[frozen karma]

scent of blood

[strange python]

Sin is hurt a lot by beefy mobs

[river quarry]

o

righto

[strange python]

Since SS garrote would ramp down

[shy mica]

sub is very Zzzzz imo

[strange python]

I like sub

I love spamming Ss haha

Shadowstrike*

[amber sequoia]

sub is fun at least, wouldnt be upset for that to be the best 😃

[quasi flower]

@fading cipher i dropped from 14.7 to 13.4

[balmy bloom]

how can i sim after the nerf nightly still give me the same before nerf

[strange python]

Iirc Sub scales quite well with gear right

[quasi flower]

@balmy bloom pins

[calm tulip]

What will ass use for aoe now?

[lost coral]

@balmy bloom check ppins

[drifting orbit]

sub is all about spamming evisc on the main focus and shuriken storm for cp right?

[final lagoon]

When they make these drastic azerite changes they should give free respecs ...

[river quarry]

still worth going 2x dd/1x ss then?

for raiding

[frozen karma]

Can someone tell me what line I need to use in advanced to change talents

on raidbots

[amber sequoia]

im just glad my respec cost has dropped back to like 320, got stupid expensive first week

[frozen karma]

override something I guess?

[hollow pine]

Well, I think Toxic Blade will have more value now. Maybe subterfuge will have less. Have to test

[strange python]

DD with MP and TB could work

[gleaming stratus]

I assume SS is still priority Trait wise or ?

[tidal sedge]

where are these patch notes btw?

[acoustic lion]

For m+ for sure

[wicked nymph]

and how it works after the nerv?

[tidal sedge]

nevermind i found it

[final lagoon]

1 X SS with Subterfuge and the extra cp with vanish might still be worth

[strange python]

1xSS will still be good

The CP feels great to play with

[lyric pond]

are the sims updated?

[strange python]

dunno about stacking it

[kindred cedar]

I copied and paste "override.spell_data=effect.734512.coefficient=3.007362" but i cant sim with it?

[river quarry]

its all about the damage fam

[kindred cedar]

i did as it says in the pin

[strange python]

You need the rest of your SimC string

[lost coral]

joockeee, in advanced

[kindred cedar]

yeah ofc i have that

[gleaming stratus]

So is Sharpened Blades now the go to?

[solid nova]

@kindred cedar Advanced sim.

[hollow pine]

I really dont know why they are not buffing weak traits like "Twist the Knife" (Envenom one).

[kindred cedar]

aah

[balmy bloom]

12,740 to 12,025 😢

[strange python]

For ST SB is probs go-to

[lone plaza]

With the gear I've kept in my banks, after the nerf all 3 specs are simming pretty much within ~50dps of each other for me now.

[strange python]

sadly

nice Teekz

[lyric pond]

thanks

[dense yarrow]

i am still not sure, TB or Exan XDDDDDDDDDDD

[shy mica]

SB?

[strange python]

Sharpened Bladse

Blades*

[shy mica]

o right

fuck that

so impractical to use imo

[strange python]

Yeah

I hate it too

[wild lily]

shuriken hurricane

[tidal sedge]

whelp i guess i need to go buy some vieled cystals so i can restore some of my gear rip

[grim wolf]

after teh sim i went down like 650~ give or take dps

[kindred cedar]

Has herodamage or bloodmallet been updated with new nerfs?

[vocal harbor]

sims updated?

[grim wolf]

i dont believe so

[kindred cedar]

ah okey

[wintry compass]

bloodmallet says 1hr ago but idk

[hollow pine]

Shuriken trait is so bad to play with.

[wild lily]

this has to be how anne frank felt

im afraid to be a certain spec

[proud tusk]

wat

[shy mica]

l0l

[strange python]

@wild lily you dont need to be

This tier has made it easier to play all specs

Azerite gear will gate your min maxing

[dire steeple]

Same, im up at 20k reforge cost on my az pieces

[strange python]

But the resr is just rng

[tidal sedge]

lasl a;kmfa;k fma wat

[solid nova]

!mute @wild lily 6h

[tidal sedge]

good thing they get reset today?

[kindred cedar]

Saw they buffed "Frenetic Corpuscle" will that trinket be any good now?

[strange python]

Still no ghuun trinket buff 🤣

@strange python its perfect for shard or scrapper spec

[buoyant badger]

did they buff that? i gave it away 370 since it was bad

[kindred cedar]

they buffing it in reset patch thingy

"The Frenetic Corpuscle now activates more often."

[strange python]

This is the most dogshit xpac

I swear

Nothing is balanced

[unreal coyote]

And yet here we are

[daring imp]

sin 'til the end even when i get hit with nurfz

[worldly shard]

servers up

[daring imp]

just spec sharpened blades and lezgo

[mellow pier]

I dont get why they dont just limit your traits to 1

[shy mica]

The worst part is just how aids it is to obtain azerite gear

So if X traits get shit on

[mellow pier]

Then u dont have to nerf strong traits

[shy mica]

GL doing m0's for your traits XDXDxdxdxd

[lone junco]

@mellow pier yeah. I was expecting dr on all trait stacking.

[leaden belfry]

i dont understand how i went from 14.240 to 14.534 with a nerf to ss traits ( i have 2 ) 🤔

[mellow pier]

If they did it

[shy mica]

@leaden belfry u play exsang or tb

[mellow pier]

System would be better

[leaden belfry]

tb

[shy mica]

explains a lot

[worldly shard]

i went from 14100 to 13500

[mellow pier]

Cause who cares if 1ss is op

[lone junco]

Would just be a different synergy.

[mellow pier]

Ya

[lone junco]

Every pull.

[leaden belfry]

But i should lose some dps instead of winning some nah? @shy mica

[lost coral]

@ancient vaporbes or the others were just pure shit lol

[calm barn]

yeah that boomkin doing that is bonkers indeed

[mellow pier]

@lone junco lol some shitters with u then

[lone junco]

Maybe. I'm not a god. I just pressed garrote 3x.

[mellow pier]

If u run with dh, arms, bm

They still beat u

[fair hill]

Nopw

[dire steeple]

DPS getting beaten by tank, either thats a 5 second fight or the other DPS are afk

[mellow pier]

Yes if theyre good

[lone junco]

Arms did well. Our Dk unholy did really well.

[fair hill]

I beat out DH, lock and BM in M+

[red geyser]

Imagine a world where there were no gimmicky things like azerite traits and legendarys and we just had base abilities and turned them as needed.

[north spruce]

nerf is live now yeah?

[mellow pier]

I mean imagine a world where we disnt have azerire but tier

And they only had to balance 2 traits

[lone junco]

Way too many knobs for them to tune now.

[dense yarrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6s98SWkvmHkHwaQ5LLGxiH

[unreal coyote]

That world doesn't keep subs

[lone junco]

They were too ambitious.

[dense yarrow]

master > haste > crit????

[mellow pier]

Lol

[tranquil ermine]

Sims dont automatically update with the hotfixes being live lol

[mellow pier]

Subs have been fine for 12+ years

Its this shit that loses them subs

[unreal coyote]

Daddy Activision might not think so

[daring imp]

rip ~21k crits 😦 😦 😦

[lone junco]

Rip. 25k crits?

[mellow pier]

I dont get how they think azerite is gonna work

[twilit belfry]

hey lads, I saw the pin but I don't quite understand fuu's post

[winter fog]

This nerf seems harder than it actually is - garrotes base dmg is 12055, the traits add up to 1533 and will be nerfed to 920 - I think assa will still be sick in m+, sub may be better ST tho

[lone junco]

R I p.

[mellow pier]

And its too indebted into system to scrap

DW tho, they will get it right by last tier

Just to add tier sets back

[lone junco]

I scrapped all my blues a week ago. Should have kept some scent.

[mellow pier]

Lmfao

[kindred cedar]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6mU1GSN26EPSRexn832xdw

[strange python]

Keep in mind

They are doing this for the long term health of the game as it unfolds over many months

[kindred cedar]

sub is the to go now then i suppose..

sim 800dps higher with sub

[strange python]

same

[mellow pier]

@strange python nerfing a trait into oblivion is kneejerk

Not long term health

[frozen karma]

please try to see the grand scheme of things

[strange python]

Haha I'm being sarcastic Nurux

[twilit belfry]

LOL

[mellow pier]

Oh lol

[dense yarrow]

Guys, is mastery now over haste and criT?????

[twilit belfry]

jebaited

[kindred cedar]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/exroYJMMu7TC2URxMJWPxE

[cursive hull]

Any idea if any other trait will be better than shrouded suffocation on reset?

[kindred cedar]

rip sim

sin *

[twilit belfry]

@kindred cedar is simc even updated? lol

[mellow pier]

Remember that 40% nerf is perma

[strange python]

SB will be better ST than SS

[mellow pier]

Not like they will ever buff it

[strange python]

Yeah it's brutal Nurux

[kindred cedar]

@twilit belfry with the thing in the pins it is

[vestal wren]

@mellow pier i assume there will be more balancing chanegs to come (probably 1 or 2 more)
bringing op traits down is the base before balancing the classes

[strange python]

Not like they'll ever buff it

OR FIX THE FUCKING BUG

[twilit belfry]

@kindred cedar teach me I couldn't figure it out lol

[mellow pier]

@vestal wren its constant then

[vast patio]

Ha ha, blizzard, buffs. Good one.

[mellow pier]

The only way to fix is to not allow more than 1 trait

[cedar meteor]

my hecticaddcleave was going down from 23k to 18k omg is this just for this nerf ,

[rocky ravine]

good lord how did i lose 3k off my opener from that nurf

[strange python]

They said they'd buff the lower traits

[kindred cedar]

@twilit belfry go to advanced sim, i didnt get it to work first either lol

[mellow pier]

Or u will always have top traits

[kindred cedar]

as i was trying to quicksim

[twilit belfry]

yeah Im there haha

[strange python]

It's brilliant

[vestal wren]

the ss nerf did also not come in an suprise, so thinking its not justified is kind of out of context

[mellow pier]

Its not justified

[twilit belfry]

https://gyazo.com/880f191790368188649e487745620957

[mellow pier]

40%

[strange python]

They've got people who min-max on an eternal treadmill of farming Azerite gear with bis traits

then "oh it's overused"

[twilit belfry]

this is as far as I've got x)

[strange python]

So they nerf it

[mellow pier]

40% is like wtf lmfao

[frozen karma]

The reason why this nerf sucks is they didn't touch a single other trait for rogue, they could have nerfed SS and buffed a few but w/e

[strange python]

rinse and repeat

[kindred cedar]

ah i dont know how to with armory, im doing it with simulationcraft addon ingame

[rocky ravine]

does this change our BiS trait?

[mellow pier]

There will always be a BEST

[twilit belfry]

oh gotcha

[mellow pier]

How can they not see that

[valid meadow]

Hey quick question, how does the azerite power weights work from bloodmallet?

Is it a pawn string?

[vestal wren]

@twilit belfry just import your char in a normal sim and sim it, you can then copy the whole profile from the result

[mellow pier]

If they allow u to stack, ur always gonna want to stack 1 trait to minimize the minmax of ur rotation

[cursive hull]

Actually, there might always be a best in terms of simulation, however that's based on a patchwerk sim. If you are only running PvP, or just Mythic+, the simulation is of less importance.

[mellow pier]

Solution, cant have more than 1 of same trait

[strange python]

inb4 they buff Fan of Blades to #1 on ST

[vestal wren]

@mellow pier 25% would have made it still very strong in aoe but balanced in st

[chrome cave]

ayyy we're fucked bois

[strange python]

FoK replacing Mut on ST

the dream

[vestal wren]

the additional 15% nerf is just bc. of m+

i assume

[vast patio]

Hooray! We're doomed!

[mellow pier]

M+ is fucking stupid

It really is

[glad shuttle]

40%

jesus

are you guys sticking to sin for raiding?

[mellow pier]

Who wants to do same dungeons for 2 years and find that fun

Its like 1 raid tier per xpac

[cursive hull]

You'd be surprised.

[proven pumice]

I enjoy m+

[frozen karma]

Might go back to sub idk, need to sim some more

[proud tusk]

I prefer M+ over the same raid for 18 months

[mellow pier]

Pple who wanna abuse unbalanced rewards

[cursive hull]

Thats why you have affixes, which changes everything

[ripe comet]

i do, m+ > raid

[chrome cave]

well I woke up to the nerfs, does sim take in account current nerfs?

[mellow pier]

@proud tusk raids change every 5 to 6 months tho...

Like wut

[glad shuttle]

well at least I can use my 370 gear now that shrouded is useless

[vast patio]

Uldir being a kinda shit raid doesnt help.

[cursive hull]

If you're (right now) doing anything higher than +9, you'll instantly feel the differences in M+ per week

[strange python]

I quite like Uldir

[mellow pier]

Uldir isnt shit just not tested

[rocky ravine]

bloodmallet still has SS miles ahead? is that shit right?

[glad shuttle]

I like Uldir

[strange python]

Bloodmallet isn't updated

[glad shuttle]

I like M+ too

[rocky ravine]

says updated 1hr ago, or was that just before restart

[vast patio]

I'd rate it slightly under EN.

[mellow pier]

So if m+ didnt drop gear but once a week

[tranquil ermine]

Nothing is updated because the Sim APL hasnt been updated yet

[rocky ravine]

okies

[mellow pier]

How good would it be

[quasi flower]

was patch applied on shutdown?

[mellow pier]

Lmao

Its only good cause u get overtuned rewards

[rocky ravine]

nurf is live im pretty sure crematus

[daring imp]

yea nerf is llive now

[mellow pier]

370 for doing a 10 like come on

[worldly shard]

380

[mellow pier]

And its spamable

Base

[vast edge]

in legion i kept grinding m+ for those bis relics.. and i was looking forward to m+ in bfa where i could grind for hours and finally get the azerite items i wanted.. good thing blizz removed that

[cursive hull]

I don't see why you guys are upset. The SS trait was obviously overpowered. Simply because it's more balanced now, doesn't mean you'll do shit dps. In fact, ass rogues are among the top in M+ and raids right now. It's not unfair to nerf a trait to balance them.

[strange python]

Bring back Justice and Valor points

[north terrace]

At least half the specs in the game had their best trait nerfed with the TB nerf! Maybe this is their way of keeping people from progressing mythic or damage getting out of control... just keep nerfing the top azerite traits every week. Sharpened blades is probably next

[true ingot]

I have a dream one day that one day Havoc will get nerfed in some way. The DHs in my guild keep laughing that Rogue's various specs keeps being nerfed while they are untouched. 😦

[chrome cave]

good thing I didn't scrap a single azerite piece xD

[glad shuttle]

pjok I agree, however 40% seems excessive

[strange python]

Hero class Scragg

[mellow pier]

@cursive hull sin rogue was middle in raids btw

Heroic stats dont matter

[glad shuttle]

you put time in farming a trait

[strange python]

This was an m+ nerf really

[glad shuttle]

and they kinda kill it

[cursive hull]

The trait isn't shit, it's just not OP right now

[strange python]

Sin was fine in raids

[mellow pier]

This system is fucked cause u farm,for weeks

[chrome cave]

SS was broken in M+

[strange python]

Sub is better mythic progression anyway

[proven pumice]

It isn't so much that SS was nerfed. It's that it was hit by 40%. That seems ludicrous

[mellow pier]

Just to get it nerfed

[unreal coyote]

umm

[mellow pier]

@strange python on 1 boss sure

[unreal coyote]

wellnow sub is probably better

but not before

[strange python]

Nah sub is better on quite a few bosses

[mellow pier]

Oh i forgot mdps isnt even used on last 2 bosses

[strange python]

tru

[daring imp]

zek voz?

[mellow pier]

Lets bugfed ranged dps!!

[unreal coyote]

assa downtime dps is much better

cleave

ya know

[vast patio]

Sin will probably be better this week, sub for next.

[unreal coyote]

important shit in mythic

[keen inlet]

The intent of these nerfs was to keep traits roughly within a certain percentile of effectiveness. Ideally there will never be best in slot traits two, because they're supposed to be something that allows further customization and or optimization for various situations

[lyric pond]

for those doing m+ what do you guys think will be better now?

[brave spade]

Hi, what azerite trait we have to take to now replace(maybe) SS ? DD or SB ?

[keen inlet]

That is the whole goal of the system

[cursive hull]

you don't have to replace it, that's the point

[mellow pier]

The intent of the nerf was lets throw random,numbers at a dartboard

[vast edge]

DD might be good now for ST

[glad shuttle]

ESCANOR gotta sim it

[unreal coyote]

i would be ok with that mentality @keen inlet but they have tied entire spec efficacy to traits

[mellow pier]

And see what sticks

[unreal coyote]

see WW

and assa

lol

[daring sedge]

Was leveling an alt rogue since i like the bleeding playstyle. Did you guys all stacked the trait which is nerfed? Will that change the playstyle to smth mastery heavy poison Style(heard that was a thing in legion) or will i be fine with a bleed build where most of my damage Comes from

[silk jolt]

guys, can someone with 3x SS hit a garrotte on a target dummy and tell me the damage?

[mellow pier]

They legit made ww not used in raiding

[keen inlet]

Right I'm not saying that they delivered on that goal yet

[silk jolt]

i was 8.2k this morn

[mellow pier]

In 1 nerf

[silk jolt]

what is it now

[unreal coyote]

until the day where they can make specs stand on their own without help from tier/leggo/traits

[mellow pier]

They were hardly used before

[keen inlet]

I'm saying that's what they were attempting to do

[vast patio]

Smoll

[cursive hull]

@silk jolt It depends on ilvl, secondary traits and weapon ilvl, telling you my DPS of a target dummy won't help you

[vast patio]

Indie

Company

[silk jolt]

ok tell me before and after

[unreal coyote]

they should stop the yanking us around unless they want to give us axerite in m+

[mellow pier]

They just go to 75th% on wcl and nerf based on that

0 feedback

For heroic btw

[unreal coyote]

give us azerite gear in m+ and this is all fine

[chrome cave]

used to hit for 17-18k before nerf now it hits for 10-11k

[mellow pier]

U cant

[chrome cave]

feelsweetnoodle

[cursive hull]

@silk jolt I'll tell you tomorrow when my patch hits EU 😃

[silk jolt]

i'm in eu

its not live yet?

[brave spade]

no

[cursive hull]

No, tomorrow

[strange python]

Yeah the WW nerf is a travesty

[vast edge]

just have to wait for the grand scheme of things.. in 8.1 we will get cool traits

[silk jolt]

do i have tonight to do M+10

sweeeeet

[glad shuttle]

is raidbots updated with nerf already?

[silk jolt]

one more day to gear up

[tidal sedge]

i do like how instead of actually fixing the trait they just nerf it lol

[strange python]

Nerfing traits and not buffing the rest of the class to compensate is just filthy

[tidal sedge]

rip 4th garrote

[cursive hull]

EU has reset Wednesdays

[mellow pier]

@vast edge they will be nerfed by 8.2 tho

[cursive hull]

@tidal sedge The fourth garrote didn't get the "from stealth" bonus anyway

[keen inlet]

I would again request that everybody take the sky is falling talk to off-topic. I understand that it is fairly assassination-centric right now, but I don't want the doomsaying to choke out people coming to the channel for actual discussion and or help due to these changes. Mod team is monitoring this channel and will try to keep things on-track, as per our rules and expectations. #off-topic is the place for shenanigans and crying. 😉

[silk jolt]

yeah but its a hotfix

[mellow pier]

How did bm,not get touched again

Lol

[strange python]

no idea LUL

And Havoc

[silk jolt]

are hotfix always patched on patch day?

[tidal sedge]

yeah but it removed your 3 buffed garrotes

[silk jolt]

thought they were periodic

[vast edge]

@mellow pier thats because the grand scheme of things coming in 8.3 needs to be better then 8.2

[cursive hull]

@silk jolt Only if they're not severe enough to impact a great deal of people. As in gamebreaking

[silk jolt]

fine

[chrome cave]

HEY GUYS, look at the good part instead of waiting for bug to get fixed the trait got nerfed so no need to worry about garroting too much now KAPPO

[silk jolt]

13:32] Sephyrus: used to hit for 17-18k before nerf now it hits for 10-11k

[strange python]

looks good to me

[silk jolt]

wtf

[daring imp]

LUL

[mellow pier]

Who logs m+

[silk jolt]

17-18k noncrit?

[unreal coyote]

honestly balancing around m+

[dull spruce]

disc priest #2

[chrome cave]

crit ofc

[unreal coyote]

can suck me

[silk jolt]

ok

why you link me crit damage

[unreal coyote]

secondary content is secondary

[mellow pier]

Wait are there pple who did keys above 10

[cunning fractal]

how to sim with ss nerf?

[vast edge]

2 SS traits gave me around 20k crits with vendetta.

[cursive hull]

@mellow pier Check raider.io and check 😉

[frozen karma]

They can nerf classes for pvp instances only, why can't they nerf for M+ one

[mellow pier]

Why would u

[strange python]

Didn't they stop balancing 2v2s for a similar reason Utility

[frozen karma]

it's such a different content

[unreal coyote]

they did

[frozen karma]

would be smarter that way

[mellow pier]

Its literally a waste of time

[tidal sedge]

i did a 13 motherlode early last week

[unreal coyote]

they never balanced 2v2

arean was always balanced around 3v3

[cunning fractal]

tnx

[wild zodiac]

They did nerf for M+... and everything else

[strange python]

So why the f are they balancing around m+

[unreal coyote]

because their pvp si so bad

all the pvpers moved to m+

to feel big again

[quasi flower]

so the build has been pushed to raidbots now or still use override

[mellow pier]

Also the ss nerf hurts pvp

[cursive hull]

@mellow pier So is raiding. Not all people raid for gear, they raid because it's fun. So are people blasting higher than +10's.

[mellow pier]

Btw

[strange python]

Not that bad

[unreal coyote]

so theyre trying hard to make m+ real boi content

[strange python]

Twist is way better still right

[vast edge]

about PvP, kinda funny how you would think the reason they removed templates was that they were confident in their trinket/azerite/class balance OMEGALUL

[mellow pier]

@cursive hull raiding gives tangible rewards for harder content

[strange python]

1xSS 2xTwist is probably better

[cursive hull]

@nuruk

[mellow pier]

Doing a +13 is only for epeen

[strange python]

Ahem

Nurux

chance of tangible rewards

[vast patio]

I still think the aoe stun nerf was fucking dumb. You know they did it for m+, too.

[hexed jasper]

so whats bis spec now for roogue after nerf

[strange python]

chadlaw

[unreal coyote]

havoc

[true ingot]

^

[strange python]

snek spam build

[silk jolt]

affliction

[alpine cave]

What is good for 3 garrote traits? Exsanguinates??

[vast patio]

I hate that build so much.

[strange python]

Affliction at the top again, what a surprise

[true ingot]

Havoc has slipped through every tuning pass so you're probably good to play it and not get smacked down

[strange python]

🤔

[silk jolt]

exsang must have been hit by the ss nerf too

[mellow pier]

Ive only run +10 shrine and freehold cause every other key has shit rewards

[modest zodiac]

nerf was active since yesterday ?

[unreal coyote]

there is 0 drawback to playing havoc

youre good at everything

[mellow pier]

I dont look for any other keys

[unreal coyote]

except getting a girlfriend

[frozen karma]

[vast patio]

Being fun*

[true ingot]

Not being able to get a girlfriend isn't really a drawback to WoW players. :^)

I kid.

[unreal coyote]

issa joke

[mellow pier]

Key is to start playing wow after u locked 1 in

[cursive hull]

@mellow pier you still have the same potential for loot as a +10, true. However in Legion they added the functionality that per level of keystone, you had an additional 10% chance to get another item. Which in todays terms would mean a +15 in time gives you a 50% of a fourth loot. The Epeen argument works for mythic raiders as well. Like I said, not everyone raids for loot alone. People don't play the game to get loot, they play it to have fun. Which is the bottom line of a game.

[chrome cave]

who needs pussy when you have ilvl 😉

[unreal coyote]

me

lol

[strange python]

Rogues are potential mass murderers

[chrome cave]

it was sarcasm 😢

[unreal coyote]

i know

[daring imp]

having the mage that did 4k deeps on the boss get a phat 385 socketed bis ring isn't nice

[vestal wren]

m+ @teal kindle pls take it to #off-topic

[teal kindle]

oops

[strange python]

tbh we really need a direct line of communication with blizz

Especially early in an expac where lots of tuning is going on

[unreal coyote]

LOL

[vestal wren]

I know we dont like the change, but keep the channel clean

[strange python]

at least if they insist on fucking shit up as bad as they are now

[chrome cave]

communication with blizz

[frozen karma]

communicating with blizz lol

[chrome cave]

OMEGALUL

[mellow pier]

@cursive hull if u play this game to push m+ keys for an imaginary made up score...

[strange python]

😦

[unreal coyote]

this is not new tactics

[mellow pier]

Cmon man

[alpine cave]

This patch, Mastery becomes somehow effective.

[modern walrus]

700-

not that bad

[unreal coyote]

blizzard always swings at the top

[alpine cave]

I dunno

[strange python]

Blizz does so much dirty shit

[unreal coyote]

rather than building the bottom

[cursive hull]

@mellow pier And the Mythic raiding progression isn't just as imaginary?

[unreal coyote]

its just how they do things

because its easier

and theyre lazy

[chrome cave]

that made up score actually differentiates bads from goods, if you like depeleting keys then you can ignore the made up score

[unreal coyote]

look at the ui

[mellow pier]

Its literally built into the game

[strange python]

Another thing they love doing is nerfing or ruining stuff only to then remove them because "they're not good/fun any more"

[agile bane]

The trait was beyond broken, I would rather have other, more fun traits be viable

[mellow pier]

Its not lol

[unreal coyote]

why improve it much when players do it for free

[strange python]

BUT YOU ARE THE ONES WHO MADE IT SHIT TO BEGIN WITH

[mellow pier]

M+ is only done cause it takes less effort

[unreal coyote]

what trait is fun?

[mellow pier]

And gives same rewards

[glad shuttle]

how realistic is raiding with sub in sin gear?

[unreal coyote]

i'll wait

[mellow pier]

100%