oh i thought you means thunder blast
#assassination
proper igloo
wheat zealot
Soo
deft locust
honestly I'd like to see nightstalker exsang back in bis anyways
strange python
now they artificially slow down warfronts progress for alliance
like it was with horde
after 50%
wheat zealot
Without big garrote is exsan as valuable? No
modern walrus
Haha gg
ripe dock
what is a warfront?
modern walrus
Buy
tulip tide
artificially? pretty sure just fewer people can hand in the quest to begin with
surreal rivet
tbh unless you're pushing world first the nerf wont matter
inland gull
since 40% nerf on ss, how do u value it? since Garrote dmg got extra from subterfuge aswell, so for e.g. if mine was hitting around 5k tick noncrit, what should be the new?
simple meteor
1k crit now
modern walrus
Haha
strange python
just wait for new herodamage values
past comet
you heal the boss for 6k per tick now
deft locust
non crit garrotes with no ss is prolly 1k ish, so 40% of 4k is 1.6k, so new crit non crit is prolly gonna be around 3400
@inland gull
terse pawn
anyone got a quick sin log that's pretty good
fringe ginkgo
I just want a reset on reforge costs
terse pawn
just want to look at a good one
deft locust
I was up at around 4k a reforge at one point
inland gull
but its understable though, with 2 SS trait, in +9 +10s i was doing 15k overall in 355 gear.. op op
strange python
inland gull
understandable*
strange python
this is already with archives helm
white lance
strange python
i hope to get some dps after buff
terse pawn
damn look at that outlaw at the top
surreal rivet
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q9aXQNGGw2oL29rNy7L3JD ill prob sim 15k after the nerf
thick comet
good rolls prolly
unique zenith
^
stark garnet
technically there is some cleave on the adds
strange python
all top outlaw parses will be 5 buffs
stark garnet
but the dont live very long
terse pawn
ah
unique zenith
outlaw with dope rolls will always do mongo damage
terse pawn
total RNG then?
unique zenith
lol no
ripe dock
Outlaw has the biggest potential DPS in the game for single target
ripe dock
Just unlikely to hit it
scenic nacelle
Also has the worst potential
deft locust
pretty rng yeah
surreal rivet
assa will still do good dmg no need to panic
unique zenith
outlaw damage is very smooth for the most part tbh
deft locust
Cyanide you honestly sound like you are having a mental breakdown
I don't think anyone is really complaining lol
white lance
what stage we at now
wheat zealot
Hes gotta tell himself its okay
strange python
i mean, let's be honest, SS needed a nerf, I would take that 40% only and if only they buffed single target somehow, but now with that 40% pretty much the spec is done
unique zenith
if you execute your rotation correctly you can parse well
white lance
acceptance?
deft locust
denial still
lilac lily
It's like Blizzard still only want rogues to be soak bots, but with a nerfed Feint now
surreal rivet
@deft locust i am
charred moat
I only had one ss and I was still orange parsing 🤔
strange python
i calculate to somehow 12-15% overall flat damage loss
deft locust
brought in line
unique zenith
@deft locust but that's not meme
nova dirge
sub got nerfed the day i got shadowblades azerite stacked at 3, and today i got my third ss azerite piece ofc it gets nerfed
surreal rivet
@deft locust like seriously lmao i am
terse pawn
why doesn't outlaw parse well on fetid then?
deft locust
@surreal rivet oh o_o. I'm sorry /patpat
terse pawn
shitty rolls?
strange python
dont worry, blizzard needs to make sure locks are at the top again like every expac
deft locust
too much downtime for fetid I think
strange python
after experiencing the sub "5%" nerf this is just going to be fucking hilarious
marble hemlock
@strange python depending on gear/damage distribution that seems about right
surreal rivet
@deft locust i just dont wanna go back to sub
unique zenith
there are outlaw parses
marble hemlock
bit less actually
unique zenith
on fetid mythiv?
white lance
remember guys, they nerfed ss with 40% but theres more coming soon! so dont go deleting ANY gear
unique zenith
I never saw any
deft locust
@surreal rivet honestly friend you are right though. It will be fine, might take slight readjusting but I don't think we're in any big trouble
timber mauve
just makes it so you have a choice on azerite pieces now
strange python
high outlaw parses will always involve 5 buffs, everage outlaw pleb parse will be meh
unique zenith
@terse pawn afaik there are no parses on mythic fetid
surreal rivet
the rng gods better smile upon me in my chest tomorrow
strange python
a
livid kestrel
@strange python yeah 5% my ass wtf was that
inland gull
i swear i already have more items in the bag ( only azerites ) than the 3 gearset of my druid on legion with all the legoswaps and different statweights lol
stark garnet
lol same
stark garnet
good design fellas
inland gull
who knows which one is the next.. 😄
hushed pulsar
So guy's... We sub now?
deft locust
no
ripe dock
Imagine being one of the rogues that hasn't been able to get a single SS, and gets one in chest tomorrow
stark garnet
honestly, may be an unpopular opinion... but this could be fixed by not allow traits to stack
stark garnet
simplify the whole fucking thing
strange python
i mean, let's be honest people, this is clearly blizzard slacking at tuning, and they have been for so long that makes you wonder and get paranoid that this endless loop will always be a thing just for rerolling and paying more money/time
kind roost
or they could remove this trash system
stark garnet
same
modern walrus
Damn
stark garnet
search for those top ones and be done
unique zenith
I have a lot of 90+ parses on outlaw even without god rolls, playing correctly will still beat out rng for outlaw
modern walrus
Was fun ticking 30k+
warm geode
at least they fix the bug using garrote out of stealth?
deft locust
not yet
inland gull
it will be fixed soon™
ripe dock
Yeah vanish bug is back bigly wtf
warm geode
they care when is DPS increase ( snapshoot at antorus ) @simple meteor
ripe dock
~letstalkaboutit
stark garnet
they had a design goal to simplify determining upgrades, not make it brain dead obvious necessarily... but azerite stacking azerite traits had the opposite effect, its far more difficult to determine upgrades than it ever has been
simple meteor
i know feelsbadman
mental mirage
what the fck is this trait tuning
white lance
give back hunger for blood
warm geode
reroll sub
strange python
they see something they don't like, they nerf it flat and big without necessarily caring tbh
inland gull
lets not forget that every 2nd magic ability goes through cloak in legion in dungeons.. 😄
warm geode
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6WWSKpaBvS8g85YkCFRkry
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xt26KcmrGirHANvyQ1vETZ
this is without nerf, with nerf im going almost for sure to sub
prisma carbon
back 2 sub
ripe dock
If DD becomes BIS it's gonna be like wotlk assa, kinda
nova dirge
DD?
hushed pulsar
double dose
ripe dock
double dose
nova dirge
oo
vapid delta
I'm so done, just got my dagger and SS piece
ripe dock
make sure you mutilate inside envenom buff
kind roost
Does anyone know how to sim different az traits on raidbots? Is it possible?
marble hemlock
i mean its basically just an azerite-trait rebalance, and we're missing the class/spec balancing pass, which is why theres no buffs to make up for the loss of dps. that will (hopefully) come SOON™ with THE PATCH™
vapid delta
Cya all in the sub channel 
manic flame
It's the Beta of Azeroth, don't go deleting any gear yet
ripe dock
although it's so long these days it wouldnt need to pool anyway zzz
inland gull
@kind roost you can click the different icons which are included in your gear
strange python
inbe4 we are treated like shadow priests or feral druids....
gloomy stump
What would change if dd got bis. Its just stupid bonusdmg
lyric crater
hmmm for inner ring has heed my call top pick on ravenholdt wowhead and icy-veins has overwhelming power is top pick so witch one is right?
hushed pulsar
"shrouded suffocation bugged to increase damage by 300%"
white lance
are we getting a character wipe soon? 😱
manic flame
@lyric crater Sim yourself
inland gull
i have 2x heed my call, in m+ its doing 4-5% of my overall
marble hemlock
i mean SP just had their two strongest traits nerfed with 0 buffs to all their shitty spec specific ones, so lets be happy with what we got 😛
hushed pulsar
3x heed my call here lol, 7-8% of my dps
white lance
my monk friend is gonna flip when he wakes up
pure sparrow
shadow priest is barely a spec right now
simple meteor
even on hectic add cleave sharpen blades gonna be top after the nerfs so disqusting..
pure sparrow
dont talk about it
inland gull
i got 1 OP and 2 heed :p
mental mirage
this azerite shit is just whack
kind roost
The SS build was so fun too
lyric crater
ok
fading chasm
So back to toxic blade or back to sub?
kind roost
fuck you blizzard
mental mirage
they will never be able to balance it
primal violet
its a terrible system
the worst part is not being able to switch azerite traits w/o the armor
strange python
let's be honest, the SS build felt BROKEN but that's how this game is supposed to fefel ULTIMATELY
primal violet
bfa is going to be worst than wod
kind roost
Yeah grinding the armor is bullshit
ripe dock
Happier about this than 10-20% ss and 5% overall tho?
exotic fractal
is there a special line we can put in now to test how the recent nerf affects assassin dps on raidbots
primal violet
i just unsubbed
uncut mango
they should just go back to tier gear tbh
mental mirage
Of course it was broken but 40% nerf xd
primal violet
the azerite system is broken at its core
fading chasm
@strange python the SS build wasn't broken. On any sustained fight you ended up with the rest of the dps
nova dirge
ye and i complained about grinding AP to do more dps
mental mirage
how to kill a trait 101
primal violet
they will keep nerfing and buffing and every 2 weeks u will have to grind new azerite traits
kind roost
everyone have fun praying for azerite pieces from your M+ chest
nova dirge
ofc we get azerite traits that changes weekly
kind roost
for 4 months in a row til you get your BIS pieces, then theyll change it agian
hushed pulsar
kind roost
mmo champion has it
simple meteor
its on mmo blue posts
kindred abyss
Big RIP for Esang build
fast nacelle
40% is nuts
hushed pulsar
i love exsang :/
worn bison
I MEAN
worn bison
WE ALL SAW IT COMING
deft locust
I like bfa so far 🤷🏽
strange python
feels broken when i can sustain for a few secs 35k dps single target tbh
smoky prism
40% just seems like overkill
white lance
here's the ss nerf
strange python
indeed
smoky prism
Outlaw only got 20% feelsbadman
uncut mango
^
nova dirge
ye and affli warlocks isnt broken for sustaining 30k ST and having great dps execute phase aswell
fading chasm
It's stupid because anyone who don't prog raid fights knows that it spike your dps at the start but by the end you're there with everyone else
vapid delta
Outlaw got flat 5% too...
surreal rivet
Who cares about outlaw lol
hushed pulsar
I literally just got curve today
fast nacelle
3 assa rogues on taloc top 100
1 on mother
9 on vectis
2 on fetid
yup assa was rly too strong
north terrace
Honestly fuck blizz man
fast nacelle
lets nerf ss for 40%
nova dirge
yea didnt deserve 40% though
north terrace
40 fucking % on SS
warm geode
@fast nacelle the "problem" was m+
deft locust
remember, they are paying attention to m+ as much as raids now
north terrace
That literally makes SS unusable
fast nacelle
so?
fading chasm
@fast nacelle top comment lol
nova dirge
specially when so many people got scrwd from playing sub and farmed new azerite for assassination
marble hemlock
the ss nerf isnt supposed to be class-balance, its supposed to fix the imbalance between traits.
ripe dock
How do you farm azerite gear? 🤔
manic flame
Farm gear for all specs, that's the only solution right now when they're tweaking the traits
strange python
the sub nerf felt like 10%+
fast nacelle
they nerf it cause its strong with subterfuge.. fine
and now? for raid?
strange python
imagine this
fast nacelle
whats going on there?
white lance
we'll now soon(tm)
marble hemlock
cause its too much to ask to have the azerite-trait balance and the class-balance happen at the same time
lilac lily
Blizzard is fucking lost, azerite gear system is shit, can't farm and they have no idea how to balance them, lul.
simple meteor
13.5 sub sim and 14.7 as assa rip
mental mirage
idk if they just stop azerite stacking
fast nacelle
cause they suck balls
pure sparrow
imo, i feel like this is the best way to balance traits
mental mirage
everything would be ok
nova dirge
and warriors doesnt get nerfed with that warbreaker ability 100k aoe burst
hushed pulsar
Just insert azerite gear into M+ - BOOM FIXED
pure sparrow
you dont want to nerf a class twice or buff a class twice
white lance
why have 3 items then, just have 1 item where you can choose 1 trait, or just get rid of it
warm geode
@hushed pulsar hell no
kind roost
Seriously let us farm Azerite pieces in M+
north terrace
guess now we'll be farming up that sharpened blades gear, until blizz realizes that's way too fucking OP and nerfs it into the ground as well
fading chasm
Stopping trait stacking is probably a good start
kind roost
fuck this rng bullshit
hushed pulsar
wtf you on
kind roost
No I want the ability to farm gear that makes me do more DPS.
hushed pulsar
we can't even FARM azerite
kind roost
Not having to rely on rng
north terrace
Honestly really fucking annoyed with blizz right now, figured they were going to nerf it but this hard?
warm geode
if u add azerite on m+ will be the endless farm to 400ilvl azerite gear
delicate gull
i mean, if they fix trait, then its not too bad?
kind roost
no, let the gear drop at the M+ ilvl and give higher level Azerite pieces from the chest
white lance
Note that there are more changes already in the works; this is just a first pass, focused on bringing some of the biggest outliers up (or down) to more acceptable levels.
meaning: ss might get another 40% nerf
kind roost
problem fucking solved
unkempt belfry
With all this rage, you'd think this was the warrior discord....
worldly mantle
Just make it so it cant forge
tall talon
good that my 2 120 chars are ww monk and assa rouge 
ruby idol
They didnt remove shroud, rogue still a ok :)
smoky prism
Does it get nerfed tomorrow?
surreal rivet
If you think about it assa will prob be the same in raids
simple meteor
xaxaxaxa more changes on the work yeah every time same shit
fading chasm
They've fixed it because its broken in M+ but by doing so have made sin shot for raids
proven ice
Is laser matrix that OP?
surreal rivet
Oh
simple meteor
Archive of the Titans: Primary stat bonus increased by 20%
Laser Matrix: Damage reduced by 30%
Thunderous Blast: Damage reduced by 35%
strange python
@white lance how do you know it's not a bet, how do you know they don't wait to react on the people, if too many rogues start crying then they will boost us flat, if we stay silent, nobody cares
surreal rivet
I’m unsubbing
ripe dock
What if weekly chest would only drop gear from highest key? And included Azerite bits? So you could sort of target gear? 🤔
strange python
I suddenly don't feel so bad about not getting SS on all of my armor
kind roost
@ripe dock i was thinking the same thing
surreal rivet
I have x2 SS but it still sucks
nova dirge
i m not going to work today
peak sapphire
I sim 1.2k less help
kind roost
they should just do it.
fading chasm
@surreal rivet you can't be raiding on sin if you think it will be fine after the nerf
nova dirge
😃
white lance
i have no idea whats gonna happen, all i know is that blizzard doesnt either
strange python
this is really heartbreaking though
surreal rivet
I’m gonna play SS regardless
tall talon
just delete this shit already
surreal rivet
Fuck Blizz
white lance
was there really such a rush to get these changes out, if theres more to come?
kind roost
Good luck farming your SB traits everyone
get em by next week before it gets nerfed too
strange python
mongoloid demon hunters jumping around with no brain topping meters like bosses easyclap
surreal rivet
Someone fly a plane into Blizz headquarters
white lance
😄
ripe dock
I have like 6 SoB bits and only one SS
fading chasm
@surreal rivet I have 3xSS and burst 40k+ at the start and level at about 12k by the end of the fight. How do you think a 40% nerf will make that competitive
ripe dock
4 DDs
strange python
Does this mean Double Dose is going to replace SS?
kind roost
DD or SB
delicate gull
cant wait to finally get that m+ SS weekly azerite tomorrow LUL
kind roost
are simming highest other than SS
hushed pulsar
sharpened blades most liekly
proven remnant
Hi sad, I'm also sad.
hushed pulsar
i'm actually kind of miffed
surreal rivet
^^
hushed pulsar
link arms and cry
ripe dock
Is it not possible SS is still BiS tho?
strange python
well guess what, we will vendor that piece
river quarry
night elf is still top for alliance rogue yea?
hardy anchor
Any news on SS hotfix yet?
river quarry
due to restealth etc
zenith oak
Sorry, what does SoB stand for ?
kind roost
it happens on reset Veddis
sand whale
scent of blood
zenith oak
ty
hardy anchor
fuck yes @kind roost ❤
mellow pasture
i'm sorry you guys
hardy anchor
@zenith oak SON OF A BITCH!
mellow pasture
i pray 4 u
zenith oak
i thought that lol
ripe dock
SoB is assa rogues reaction tonight lol
kind roost
I mean its obvious that if we could swap traits or farm Az pieces easier no one would be nearly as mad
sullen robin
im not playing that gay shit
strange python
no SoB can save your single target after this
kind roost
but now we all have to go play RNG again
mellow pasture
i love throwing knives you shut your mouth
strange python
we are so done boi
kind roost
after farming for 3 SS pieces
oblique kindle
SS nerfed in pvp or in pve too?
sullen robin
both
hushed pulsar
both
kind roost
both
strange python
everywhere
late niche
both
hushed pulsar
and both
mellow pasture
both
strange python
rogue nerfed? yes everything
sullen robin
gonna go play warrior now, unnerfed btw
ripe dock
hey guys on the bright side PB rng isn't that bad anymore 😄
cedar elk
is everyone on suicide watch from the azerite nerf?
mellow pasture
goonna go play ww monk
kind roost
@cedar elk some have already jumped
oblique kindle
Well, finally , tbh I want more options not only farming one specific trait
worn bison
LOL DONT JUMP SHIP
strange python
dh nerfed? just a mongo trait 😄
sleek iron
Come on bloodmallet and simcraft update already
mellow pasture
lmao
worn bison
You have 2 other specs you can play 
sullen robin
sub is shit
hushed pulsar
demon hunters can all burn as far as im concerned
signal crag
this is terrible
mellow pasture
beats reforging
tall talon
sb gonna get nerfed next anyway
normal galleon
Don't talk shit about reforging.
hushed pulsar
my raiderio won't let me7
hushed pulsar
same xD
signal crag
sharpened blades is literally garbage to play
proper igloo
i just hit 120
tiny vapor
Going sub again I guess then :3
proper igloo
time to level a different class
signal crag
let me just get 120 stacks and throw a knife
sullen robin
sub is still sharpened blades
strange python
don't worry guys, they will take care of us in the next raiding tier LUL
ripe dock
stupid trait tbf
sand whale
I'm almost reliving a NS PK moment
proven ice
Sub isn't viable in pvp.
sleek iron
Imagine if item recovery servers are down
sullen robin
im not even excited for tomorrow now lma
surreal rivet
I’m never excited for Tuesday
strange python
no guys, trust blizzard, sub is pvp viable LUL
sullen robin
Im usually excited for reset, but like i have no idea what my spec is now
proven ice
I would go back sub in a second if it was.
surreal rivet
Tuesday is always a disappointment
proven ice
I literally keep every azerite piece 340 and up because I have no idea what's going on
tacit steppe
supposed to clip exanged bleeds and pandemic refresh or let them fall?
sullen robin
@tacit steppe reroll
sand whale
don't clip let it fall off
white lance
good system huh @proven ice
delicate gull
any azerite piece with an interesting trait that can potentially change your rotation should just be thrown out, itll get nerfed anyway
signal crag
@sullen robin right do i open my chest as sin or outlaw >!??!?1/1
sullen robin
lol
ripe dock
don't overwrite empowered bleeds with non empowered bleeds
white lance
dont open it
sullen robin
Azerite was such a bad idea
proven ice
Like, I go to ask mr robot, and put all my gear in the top gear finder and come back in 15 mins.
cool decision making
white lance
they might post a hotfix the next day
surreal rivet
Blizz can’t make up their mind with rogues
signal crag
rogues were fine
sullen robin
they nerfed outlaws interesting trait
than they nerfed sins interesting trait
why make these traits
delicate gull
Their solution to fixing SS bug was to nerf it so no one used it LOL
sullen robin
than make them useless
signal crag
i bet they gave us the hammer because of how they preformed in pvp and it has nothing to do with pve
unreal bear
it's funny because
strange python
Okay so is Sin still good now? Or are we gonna switch over to Snake Eyes outlaw as the new meta build.........?
unreal bear
sin has damage problems in arena outside of vendetta as is
surreal rivet
Ion hozzicockas is a dumbass
unreal bear
so reducing garrote is insanely stupid
surreal rivet
And needs to be fired
frail gate
anyone notice that assassination sucks on tyrannical week
white lance
can anyone right now tell me how much damage a mutilate does in pvp compared to pve? i have no clue how to find this stuff out
pure sparrow
no
frail gate
you get 1 vendetta then boss dies before next one
ripe dock
hammer due to m+ mostly i think
pure sparrow
wtf lol
strange python
@frail gate I've been doing fine with Tyrannical
unreal bear
my muti hits for ~1200 in arena @white lance
strange python
if they don't flat buff at least 5% rogue we are so done
kind roost
Sin was great for tyrannical this week
cloud spindle
I feel like w/o SS, M+ aoe dmg is really lacking. Does CT fix that or no?
frail gate
just feelsbadman when your vendetta comes up at 5%
kind roost
not sure what youre talking about
white lance
but all these separate % nerfs/buffs, how am i supposed to figure those out?
sullen robin
rerolling to dh bois
ruby idol
Before the nerf to ss sin is easily the best m+ spec in the game
surreal rivet
That won’t happen @strange python
ruby idol
Yall are bugging, ofc it's getting nerfed
magic ermine
im really upset with my 8k dps in a zek'voz heroic try
white lance
dads got a plan
strange python
@white lance The tooltips should update when you switch from pvp to pve conte----- Just kidding that doesn't typically happen you'll just have to guess for yourself
cinder palm
lucky for me i have my dh geared LUL
kind roost
seeing as the nerf hasnt gone through yet 8k dps seems like a personal problem
magic ermine
garrot uptime less than 50%, rup less than 40% and no idea how to work on it
hushed pulsar
@ruby idol we're kinda of competitive?
sleek iron
Dad you said that after 5% nerf and now again what will you say next nerf? @ruby idol
kind roost
@magic ermine You need to watch the bosses debuffs better
sullen robin
yeah but its back to the same old shit
scenic nacelle
SB is such a ridic trait who even came up with that shit
surreal rivet
Eh raids are a little iffy
sullen robin
with horrible traits to choose from
fervent beacon
Dear sin rogues
hushed pulsar
Garrotte was fun
mellow pasture
lmao method had 6 sub rogues
ripe dock
@magic ermine WeakAuras might be helpful to you so you can track your enemies debuff bleeds
surreal rivet
I wonder if Blizz has people watching the rogue discord
late niche
wow my carrot deals no damage now
kind roost
you have a bunch of shit outlaw rogues, because the spec is shit now
mellow pasture
and our guild is running 4 rogue s but i'm the only sub
rigid walrus
rip carrot
hushed pulsar
Like you need a brain to play Outlaw :^)
prime stirrup
what ever voidazz. we took all the crap sub/outlaw players last week
sullen robin
outlaw is super easy what
strange python
stupid design bro all over, so stupid as if it's intentionally stupid just to get less stupid only to remain stupid gg
sleek iron
Outlaw is easiest
surreal rivet
U guys think Blizz has people watching the rogue discord?
late niche
outlaw feels like playing havoc DH
sullen robin
no cause havoc is way better
chilly obsidian
What's with the triple double dose meme is that the new thing
white lance
rogues are TRASH in m+, no utility, no interrupts or cc, no group pack-skipping ability, no top tier dps. they are ALSO TRASH in raids no more spongebob mcsoakbitch no prio damage no sustain no survivability DELETE CLASS 😡
strange python
havoc is like #1 after tomorrow
magic ermine
@ripe dock @kind roost is there any difference between reapplying buffs on 5s or 1s?
lofty sand
Their devs are normal people who are allowed to use discord, so maybe one of the responsibles for rogue is indeed here, but we will probably never know
lofty sand
and they dont need to watch this, they have acess to logs
pure sparrow
they're lol'ing then at the state of this chat
prime stirrup
Rod you need a serious in depth guide. feel free to look at pins
paper aspen
The SS nerf is honestly pretty justified considering how far ahead it was compared to every other option. If this nerf puts it in line with the other traits and we're behind, we'll likely get buffed across the board.
normal galleon
(you hope)
surreal rivet
Tbh this expansion needed more time
strange python
we say ok to 20% we say kms to 40%
kind roost
Everyone knew it was going to be nerfed, no one expected 40%
surreal rivet
Should have been released in October
ripe dock
They should make a vegas slot machine based around outlaw rotation that could be so fun yo
chilly obsidian
40% of bonus damage btw not of garrote damage
olive egret
Does this only gut m+ or does single target suffer hard as well?
scenic nacelle
It's not like we can farm for new traits anyway because that shit doesn't drop in M+ so basically we are fucking praying we get lucky once a week with chests
late niche
we have to admit that the ss nerf is justified in the grand scheme of things,
ripe dock
YOu have to enter coins to reroll
magic ermine
@prime stirrup i did bro. really did. but im not american, and for some detalis, i might be losing something
surreal rivet
Whoevers in charge of their class balance team needs to be fired
olive egret
So Sub it is
magic ermine
for some reason, i might be losing some details*
paper aspen
Honestly, it would be legit of them if all gear with a nerf trait got reset so we could change our traits.
prime stirrup
in every guide it tells you to refesh buffs at 7.2 sec for rupture and 5.4sec for garrote
normal galleon
"Grand scheme" 🍆 🍆 🍆
chilly obsidian
If you're in here salty over an op trait getting nerfed than you're fotm and going to be mad the rest of the game
tall talon
so we all reroll sub and dont play pvp until we get the next changes?
faint creek
They aren't going to fire people lol
rigid walrus
why couldnt they buff some of the useless traits for sin lol
signal crag
if SB becomes BiS rogue is gonna be crap to play
hallow sage
@chilly obsidian i'm more mad that literally every bis trait for each rogue spec has been gutted since release
surreal rivet
Because Blizz thinks backwards
median mason
What would be cool is if you could use some material to properly reforge azerite gear and change the first trait of a piece
surreal rivet
They don’t think logically
chilly obsidian
That's because every bis trait for rogue has been op
hallow sage
so rather than just making the others feel good to play with
we sink the ship?
makes sense
surreal rivet
Last time Blizz actually gave a shit was like what MoP?
olive egret
Just wish the gutted traits weren't the ones that altered rotation is all
normal galleon
A 20% nerf would have made it competitive and situational.,
strange zodiac
lol
chilly obsidian
If you think the ships sunk
hallow sage
@olive egret RIGHT
chilly obsidian
You're delusional
normal galleon
40% puts it in the dirt.
chilly obsidian
Rogues are still strong
strange zodiac
so much fun farming builds over and over
nova dirge
maybe the new build will be DD + TB + Master Poisoner
strange zodiac
to be nerfed
ripe dock
inb4 SS still bis
soft wave
if only there was a structured way to test these traits with the ability for players to give feedback.....
fading chasm
DPS before with 3xSS - 13,666
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bRfdWBo24aLrvqV3r21PnZ
DPS with no azerite traits - 11,365
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3PX4MYDvS4CxLdEb5UELgU
Difference
2301 dps
Theoretical DPS loss with SS nerf
920.4
Theoretical DPS after nerf
12,746
Total theoretical DPS loss
6.96653%
strange python
@chilly obsidian wrong time to make jokess buddy
forest forge
WEW LAD
hallow sage
@chilly obsidian ya man because sharpened blades feels so much better than getting 2 extra CP on pull, altering your pull rotation and vanish rotation
strange python
we are officially 355eq feral druids
sand whale
way to mislead people though
scenic nacelle
yikes lol
sand whale
those sims are not even representative
scenic nacelle
yeal... that's with no traits bud
surreal rivet
Sub is
scenic nacelle
way off
mellow pasture
SHURIKEN TOSS FOVEVER! WOO!
surreal rivet
@manic flame LOL
tall talon
@manic flame
ruby idol
Not even a 14k Andy and has an opinion??????
strange python
DD no good?
surreal rivet
All good boys get a good night sleep and tomorrow the spec will be perfect
strange python
be like gingi, gingi used a 355 char to do zul mythic, gingi logged off and never logged back in again
paper aspen
So if it's not a 7% overall nerf, how much is it? Anyone else have some numbers or anything?
ruby idol
Your heroic progression raid will be just fine with you losing a bit of dps smile :)
surreal rivet
Yes but I’m not progressing on heroic
fading chasm
@scenic nacelle LT math bro. Sim without traits / Sims with traits give you the differnce in dps the traits add. Then you can work out what 40% of that value is
surreal rivet
I have to play what’s good
frail gate
can we have a moment of silence please
forest forge
F
ruby idol
Then you're playing sub half the fights anyway as is
white lance
F
surreal rivet
F
ruby idol
So theres no issue
frank compass
F
hallow sage
F
lofty sand
So they decided for 40%? Oh well, we got to enjoy brainless rotation for insane damage for long enough
olive egret
F
strange python
shroudly suffocated tm
lofty sand
I bet a lot of us got some easy clears with it
tall talon
F
surreal rivet
@ruby idol I don’t play sub, prob gonna stick with assa regardless of nerf
ruby idol
Hm
manic flame
Playing all specs, my bags are filled to the brim with azerite pieces #feelsbadman
ruby idol
You seem confused
median mason
Having to grind out new gear is a way for blizzard to create content without providing new content
surreal rivet
I wish I didn’t scrap all my Azerite armor
white lance
hotfixes is the new content ye
surreal rivet
Bleh it’s 340 anyways
hallow sage
@manic flame yeah i've yet to scrap a 340+ piece of azerite gear because i knew this shit was gonna happen
jolly notch
i ran some numbers and it seems like the nerf for my charaacter is a ~12% overall nerf to damage in single target and a ~22% nerf in 2-3 target aoe anyone else get similar numbers?
frosty oak
Rogue
(Assassination) Shrouded Suffocation: Damage bonus reduced by 40% how we feeling about this
chilly obsidian
Yo once this nerf hits and rogues dead what fotm class do we jump on? I hear frost dk is going to be the new wave
olive egret
Dh
strange python
havoc
surreal rivet
Dh
strange python
is the new religion
hushed pulsar
DH
rapid mirage
I hope they buff scent of blood, i love getting as many dots out as possible
strange python
good thing fukcing monks trait got shit on too
white lance
@frosty oak scroll up youll see
surreal rivet
Gonna level mine tomorrow
lofty sand
We will be soon back to peaceful redness in this channel, thats how I'm feeling
autumn bloom
lol
crimson gorge
(Assassination) Shrouded Suffocation: Damage bonus reduced by 40%
alright blizzard
ripe dock
isn't there poison color anymore?
surreal rivet
Get a good nights sleep boys tomorrow is Dooms day
hallow sage
@chilly obsidian i love this "if you're mad about nerfs you must be fotm" idea you've got going on in your head
olive egret
I'm fine with a trait Nerf when the trait was super strong, just buff some others and not just passive ones - change my rotation a bit
white lance
i want "rogue" color, who only plays one spec anyway
fringe zodiac
Back to outlaw later assa nerds
queen monolith
ALRIGHTY BOYS WHATS THE AZERITE MOVE NOW
strange python
yeah yeah yeah, just get flat trait nerfs and here you go buddy, play your game like the 10 y/o you are
cant wait for updated trait values
surreal rivet
Fuck outlaw and fuck sub
crimson gorge
and fuck rogue -blizzard
mellow pasture
sorry your spec was so engaging
wicked nymph
the rogue isn't dead after the patch
fringe zodiac
Fuck the 4th floor
white lance
@queen monolith my move is to wait for the next hotfix, when they maybe buff scent of blood by 400%
who knows
olive egret
Compensation
lyric pond
meanwhile DH and warriors are still untouched
olive egret
What about hunters
strange python
@white lance never gonna happen
surreal rivet
Knowing Blizz we’ll get a flat 10% nerf
chilly obsidian
DH is fine tho tbh
glad ferry
wtf is SoB
wicked nymph
we are still good after this nerf
chilly obsidian
Liavre with facts
safe matrix
lemme crop that better
marble hemlock
stop linking m+ warcraftlogs liavre, youre making me sad
reef frigate
blizzard buffing rogues? lmao
olive egret
It was strong on m+ no doubt
lyric pond
yeah 1 button 30k aoe dps
hallow sage
can't wait for neutral passive traits to be bis guys
surreal rivet
We aren’t good after nerf spec is dead
chilly obsidian
They nerfed tblast and laser so idk what you're on about
forest forge
and laser
timber mauve
im coming up with like a 724 baseline nerf to ss, not huge, but still
white lance
inares knows whats up 
strange python
we need to seriously get the guy behind tuning fired guys
lyric pond
are the sims updated already?
warm peak
they nerfed the other top traits, ss still gonna be one of the best traits even with 40%, its just way to broken atm
surreal rivet
Ion hozzicockas needs to be fired
timber mauve
^
surreal rivet
Game will be 10% better
cedar elk
(Beast Mastery) Feeding Frenzy: Damage increased by 400% 
hushed pulsar
I want it where either my 370 ilvl daggers break OR I insta kill the boss who's with me? Blizzard is
olive egret
Not denying ss was broken for m+, I just really don't care for passive traits being the strongest
chilly obsidian
Sorry they dont want us to garrote 3x from stealth then afk and do more damage then most other classes on aoe
strange python
meanwhile i have a fan og blades 370 piece in bags
hallow sage
@warm peak the reason it'll be so strong is more the extra 2 CP you get than teh dmg
forest forge
its still bad after the 400%
tall talon
@cedar elk 
strange python
jesus christ man wait till you actually ffeel the nerf tho
scenic nacelle
POOPERS
strange python
i feel so bad
surreal rivet
How tf are they gonna nerf a spec without fixing the bug
cedar elk
@tall talon 
forest forge
I can feel it already
white lance
but really though, do all traits NEED to be balanced for every class? its a bullshit tacked-on system that will only last for one expansion, who cares if one trait outperforms the others. they cant get away from it either, we'll just shift to the next best trait
wicked nymph
the spec isnt dead i think we can play assa we are just not the best one than but still good
lyric pond
yeah like how DHs press 1 button to blast an entire pack and theyre fin apparently
surreal rivet
Fuck Blizz fuck BFA fuck ion hozzicockas
queen monolith
@surreal rivet is the bug spamming the ability over and over and it not doing any damage? idk
lofty sand
I was hoping they gave the other traits a little bit of love, but I guess not, oh well
potent forge
It's broken in m+, I don't see a single reason to bring sin to raids anymore. It's st is worse than subs and it's multidotting was just bent over a barrel.
strange python
just happy they nerfed laser matrix too, since some people like me never see one single piece with it
chilly obsidian
If you think eye beam is OP I dont know what to tell ya
strange python
op dmg with origination array was too much
lusty narwhal
Sins ST is not worse than subs
ripe dock
Why do they make only half of the traits effect stack anyway they should just stop stacking and make single traits more powerful and rotation changing for interesting effects
median mason
Its all a conspiracy to keep you grinding because the content has already been eaten through
lyric pond
im talking about barrage
forest forge
hes not talking about eye beam?
surreal rivet
@queen monolith when you cast 3 garrotes with stealth buff the 4th one removes the dmg buff
forest forge
lol
chilly obsidian
Ok barrage w/e
prime void
barrage has a fat cd
potent forge
Sin stg is definitely lower than sub now
lyric pond
its rediculous atm and yeah theyre fine
potent forge
St
lyric pond
lol
olive egret
Rotation changing is what I'm after. Miss me with that passive bonus shit
queen monolith
THATS WHY I DID NO DAMAGE ON GHUUN
kind roost
So are we running archive with the buff or is it still trash
strange python
blizzard hc: "hey john check m+ wowlogs and herodamage please, we'got some tuning to do"
surreal rivet
Sub needs another 5% nerf
chilly obsidian
Make it 10
olive egret
No, leave sub
lyric pond
and Deadshot needs another 20% nerf yeah
forest forge
make it 15% for zul
strange python
nah dude just nerf all rogue specs 4% ez
surreal rivet
Naw sub needs to get nerfed into the ground
lyric pond
DH/Warrs doing great, better nerf rogues right?
surreal rivet
Nerf bits by 40% as well
mental mirage
lets hope they dont buff shit which drops in uldur
olive egret
Nerf China monkaS
white lance
its like the damage meter is stricken by communism
manic flame
Laser Matrix is pretty strong though
severe raven
so what are our new traits?
mental mirage
otherwise: rogue lf guild :))))))
surreal rivet
Fuck it delete the spec
jolly notch
why does blizz insist on ruining playstyles in the middle of a raid tier?
surreal rivet
Assa masterrace
prime void
middle of a tier ?
kind roost
They nerfed laser matrix too so who cares
strange python
laser matrix was stupid
prime void
We're 2 weeks in lol
forest forge
fuck my life
surreal rivet
Delete sub from the game
prime void
tuning always ahppens at this point
jolly notch
lets be honest after a month nobody cares lol
strange python
how can 2 traits that drop in the same raid be so much off
median mason
I think outlaw should be able to use a two hander
strange python
archives was utter shit and matrix op
mental mirage
I mean, it was obvious that it had to be nerfed, at least in m+
strange python
both gave array
forest forge
B A L A N C E
ripe dock
2/3 of my traits got nerfed rip
lyric pond
it needed a nerf, but 40%? Lol
glad ferry
What is "SoB"
olive egret
It's the playstyle thing I'm bent about. Ss effected rotation, Deadshot effected rotation
mental mirage
ye...
wicked abyss
How did Feral go live total shit?
fringe zodiac
Isn't feral druid a Rouge without kick I swap to feral
ripe dock
SON OF A BITCH
wicked abyss
Nobody play testing over there
hallow sage
@glad ferry scent of blood
mental mirage
blizzard way of balancing
white lance
SoB = SS-trait
surreal rivet
Why 40% tho why not 20%
strange python
they have so much money dude and they spend none of it to the actual tuning, it's actually ridiculous
marble hemlock
@severe raven youll most likely still play SS, unless you want to minmax pure ST or pure AoE, at which point sharpened blades/scent of blood might be better
lyric pond
i think its gonna be 2 SS 1 archive?
strange python
gonna check monks discord real quick, must be exploding right now
lyric pond
i dunno waiting for sims
forest forge
inb4 1 SS
olive egret
Poor monks
ripe dock
Do they pull these figures out they asses?
forest forge
just for CPs
olive egret
55%
paper aspen
it's 40% of the bonus damage from the trait right? That really doesn't sound that bad
hushed pulsar
monks got shafted harder than us, a prayer for our lost brothers
surreal rivet
@lyric pond id like x2 SS x1 archive tbh
prime void
my question to you guys is, why do you guys think it didn't deserve a nerf ?
Like it was OBVIOUS it was going to be tuned
ripe dock
why is it always 5%, or 40%? True tuning should be something like 23.65%
signal crag
@paper aspen doesnt most the dmg come from the trait?
forest forge
no we 100% did
olive egret
No, it deserved a nerf
forest forge
not 40%
lyric pond
@surreal rivet yeah me too, im itching for the sims to be updated
hallow sage
@forest forge yeah i think until we have the haste to make up for it, we'll need at least 1 shrouded
hushed pulsar
@prime void allow us to grieve
mental mirage
what got nerfed for monk? pls me its rising sun kick
forest forge
ya
prime void
Grieve for what ?
median mason
Because fotm rogues want to have fun for a few more weeks
hushed pulsar
@prime void lol shush your face
stuck shuttle
@prime void shouldn't you be raiding rn
desert oyster
Suffocation biting the dust
surreal rivet
Tomorrow we’re all gonna get 385 SS Azerite pieces
white lance
inb4 3x dagger in the back is bis, because rogues yo
stuck shuttle
😛
prime void
shush because I'm right ?
strange python
@Mizu what do you mean rogue has a spot when havoc will be pulling 5k at least more overall
hallow sage
@surreal rivet take that back rn
prime void
LOL
paper aspen
@signal crag Good amount of flat damage came from the trait though the talent wasn't anything to snooze at either.
forest forge
@white lance class fantasy
prime void
Thinking havoc is actually decent outside of 2 bosses
strange python
95% of top monk parses were 3x roundhouse
prime void
Don't pull numbers out your ass mate
hushed pulsar
@prime void you're not "right" you're moronic because you're missing the point
surreal rivet
I’m not even worried about the nerf cause I wasn’t running x3 SS to begin with
strange python
broken af
surreal rivet
x2 SS x1 dagger in the back xD
tight hinge
Dh dont have a button to let you magically walk through half a dungeon
white lance
i love how my moonkin throws daggers while casting moonfire, its lit af and perfectly in line with my class fantasy
hushed pulsar
@prime void i'm saying I agree this is deserved but you should allow us to cry about it for a while
autumn bloom
you can disagree with someone but lets leave personal attacks out of it
stuck shuttle
@surreal rivet tfw u are running 2xSS and 1xLM
frozen karma
So for people with 3x SS we're looking at like a 10% nerf?
stuck shuttle
FeelsBadMan
forest forge
LOL
surreal rivet
Lol
shadow idol
is ass ok to lvl?
surreal rivet
I sim 15.3 rn
strange python
i swear to god wait till this goes live and you see it on your char, then you will actually go fucking nuts
surreal rivet
After nerf I’ll prob sim 15.1
autumn bloom
no, you wont
ripe dock
Dagger in the Back used to ruin my gouges fuck that trait 😄
autumn bloom
lol
kind roost
People coming in here after a nerf expecting anyone to act reasonable
marble hemlock
@frozen karma sounds about right, 10-12%
autumn bloom
everyone thinks a nerf is gonna be the end of their class
outer yacht
when will sims/herodamage reflect nerfs?
kind roost
just let people whine about the nerf that just happened jesus christ
white lance
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/draenor/dêvlin you mean this?
olive egret
R u n, w e ' r e d o n e
hushed pulsar
@kind roost ayy someone gets it
boreal root
Which spec should i be maining now?
mental mirage
rip 20k overall in m+ :(
paper aspen
@kind roost That's because we hold rogues to a higher standard of play and maturity than the other classes!
mental mirage
was a fun week to play the game
median mason
Which spec should you be maining now
forest forge
G O N K shoulders
soft wave
hello sirs is assassin kill
forest forge
yes
hallow sage
@kind roost no you don't get it, if you're upset you're obviously FOTM and you're the gutter shit of the wow world /s
chilly obsidian
Rogues dead quick reroll dh xd
white lance
yes assa is kill
paper aspen
Saying that with a straight face was hard.
white lance
we kill our enemies!
surreal rivet
Taking bets on what I’m gonna sim after nerf https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cJ3RuzMRACXmTwaVHwSuEM
dull spruce
9k
undone cairn
1k
strange python
10k
chilly obsidian
14.2
mental mirage
Hahah
frail widget
I’m happy I can use my 385 shoulders over my 340
white lance
7.34k
mental mirage
14.3
tough lantern
12.5k
hushed pulsar
@hallow sage The fotm players don't care... they switch to another class. The mains are upset because they can't
olive egret
14.5
ripe dock
If we all vanish in unisen blizzard wont be able to hit us with the nerf bat 
forest forge
14.3
surreal rivet
Running x2 SS x3 DITB
frozen karma
14
surreal rivet
x1 DITB**
median mason
I mean if you main a class
strange python
im gonna be over 15k after archives buff
hallow sage
@hushed pulsar i'm just mimicking all these cunts in here that are trying to play devils advocate
median mason
You've been through worse
mental mirage
lets hope Twist the knife wont get touched or im gonna lose my brain
vast mulch
AAAAAAAAAAAAAA SS is gonna get nerfed
dark token
nerfs cant touch me
frail widget
Meh I’ll just play sub til sin scales back up. Prolly stay sin for mythic plus cause iron wire is broken as shit
hushed pulsar
@hallow sage I love you :p
surreal rivet
Man I just got my fucking gale caller yesterday
white lance
the worst time for me as a rogue was back in wotlk naxx
surreal rivet
Fuck you blizz
hallow sage
@hushed pulsar ❤
white lance
i hated that shit
forest forge
RIP boon+exsang @surreal rivet
surreal rivet
😦
sand whale
cyanide you need to relax
dark token
waah sin got nerfed i have to swap to sub spec that does 50 dps lower waaa
median mason
Being able to main a class/spec is being able to depress through the nerfs
forest forge
oh shit
sand whale
I believe the stage is denial
surreal rivet
I am in denial
white lance
ye boi @strange python so you have NO IDEA of knowing what you should do next
strange python
usually when they say "more changes in the works" they imply for the next raiding tier
forest forge
this stage
slate scarab
40% is pretty big. makes it not a good trait imo, at least not more than 1. Get the free combo points still
hallow sage
@dark token it's literally more of a "i get to play this spec i enjoy this week, now i have to play this spec i enjoy less next week, the week after i'll probably be playign a different spec"
strange python
thank god we have personal loot "always click i need it for myself"
kind roost
Id be really surprised if we dont keep 1 SS trait for the 2 cp
strange python
having like 50 pieces in bags
forest forge
we will 100%
strange python
what blizzard will buff or nerf
surreal rivet
I’m calling it tomorrow we all get 385 SS pieces
median mason
50 pieces with different traits is cool
forest forge
idk what i would do
median mason
Try having 10 pieces with the same traits of garbo
white lance
have fun figuring out whats best @strange python , ion said it should be easy now
forest forge
if that happend
forest forge
pls no
kind roost
Im guessing BiS will be like 1 SS 2 SB or 1 SS 2 DD
dark token
im just sad cause i have 340 azerite chest/shoulder, but have 370, 370, and 385 helm
kind roost
so get farming boys
surreal rivet
You’re gonna get 385 SS of the piece you need the most
lusty narwhal
Every week i feel more and more like playing warrior
sand whale
I'd be okay with 385 ss trait it beats a 340 ss trait lol
hallow sage
my bag is filled with so many different pieces of gear because you literally can't commit to 1 spec atm without gambling the risk of gimping yourself and your raid prog
strange python
im guessing no one will invite rogues anymore in the finder
slate scarab
if running 2x SS pieces I'm guessing this is about a 5% nerf.
kind roost
I mean if youre still 360 ilvl+ people are still gonna invite you
ripe dock
rogue is still broken in m+ too strong bruv
kind roost
gl to all the low level rogues though
vast mulch
RIP assassination
hallow sage
rogue will get brought because stealth is probably the best m+ utility ability in the game
hushed pulsar
i'm sitting pretty at 368 ilvl atm so all good here xD
strange python
Just use rapture traits with full mastery crit build, works just as good
sand whale
you guys have permission to QQ if shamans are invited before you are
strange python
why inv a rogue when you can have a warrior,/dk/boomkin a dh and a mage at the same grp
For shroud
ok
white lance
we're shroud cucks now
lilac lily
I guess that's an upgrade from soak bot?
surreal rivet
In b4 shroud is 10 min cd and only stealth’s 2 other people
ripe dock
tricks, shroud, picklock, sick melee DPS, survivability, bruv what else do we need really.
white lance
remove sick melee dps from that statemnent, right now 😡
ripe dock
even outlaw is good in m+ atm
fringe zodiac
Yeah 😡
kind roost
Affli got fucked too right
strange python
confirmeed @ripe dock mains dh
ripe dock
just not super OP bleeds like assa
slate scarab
I'm sorry to see so many Azerite nerfs, not just ours. Lowering the top instead of raising the bottom is just going to make the raid harder. Total raid DPS will be down.
desert oyster
Any idea when the new sims will come out so I can blow all my gold respecing again?
livid kestrel
SS still bis in m+ ?
kind roost
no one knows.
lucid ruin
probably
white lance
i would wait for next weeks hotfix bonanza, that way you save some gold
surreal rivet
Gotta buy new gems and enchants and scrap my galecallers and use Harlem’s again
marble hemlock
@livid kestrel for tyrannical, most likely, for fortified 3xscent of blood might be better
rigid sky
Is it bad raid will get harder?
hazy sphinx
Did they nerf galecaller?
fringe zodiac
Why scrap galecaller
mellow pasture
galecaller is really good for sub 😮
lucid ruin
Having 1 SS will probably be BiS for the 2 combo points
mellow pasture
the best even
kind roost
Eso what realm are you on
hazy sphinx
I have a 385 one. I'm not replacing it.
mellow pasture
you bastard lol
kind roost
385 SS is probably still BiS so
mental mirage
if galecaller gets nerfed then I can easily switch to my 385 battlemaster trinket for that sick 32k hp buff
bigfan
hushed pulsar
got a 395 lustrous plumage
prime void
total raid dps will be lower
kind roost
jesus fuck
prime void
What ?
You think your dps is going to change that much in raid from ss nerf youre tripping
its broke naf in keys
not so much raid
lucid ruin
@kind roost sargeras is main server
late niche
in raids it just makes you birst for 30k then you're down there with the plebs
dreamy thunder
@ripe dock where is that from?
strange python
"SS is shit for single target cauz you don't rotate vanish with vendetta and xsg" mhm
forest forge
lol
ripe dock
dreamy thunder
thanks