last week it was arms warrior
#assassination
sudden brook
zinc cliff
this channel is worse than the aff channel
grim sail
OH BOY nerfs inc, time to go Fan of Blades trait bois
sudden brook
now everybody says DHs are OP
zinc cliff
holy fuck
drowsy summit
SS will still shit on near on DPS for mythic plus so dont worry
sinful flint
Arms warrior is bonkers in pvp, thats why
lusty narwhal
DH is OP in certain situations
chilly obsidian
DH is low skill high damage so in low mythics where people one chest it's broken op
white lance
frag said hes gonna reroll hunter
strange python
i wonder how this will fuck with exsang, probably not much I imagine
real socket
@white lance can we have sex
torpid jackal
whatever, frag has an arms warrior
wind whale
I wonder what trait's we will go to as sin
sudden brook
exsang might be worse, if SS is no longer BIS
torpid jackal
he doesnt need to reroll
white lance
im available thursdays
real socket
hell yeah man
crisp hollow
god bless
chilly obsidian
Ss for m+ still
cloud iron
i mean its alot bigger of a nerf then like 400 damage on 2 traits
cloud iron
but its not like
cloud iron
everyone die
zinc cliff
yes
deft locust
haha
hazy flame
toxic blade fun????
torpid jackal
yes, our attacks now heal bosses
hazy flame
wat
chilly obsidian
40% to the bonus damage it provided btw not to the overall damage of garrote
sudden brook
^^
crisp hollow
prefer it a lot over exsang
cloud iron
yea, but that was amped by alot of other things
zenith notch
I want them to buff Twist the Knife so my Envenom + Toxic Blade can do higher crits than Eviscerate.
edgy monolith
Toxic blade/ Double Dose will be bis
strange python
i dont want to play TB, exsang gave a little gameplay change that was not as braindead as TB on cooldown
deft locust
I think with the SS nerf Toxic blade will prolly outdps exsang again
chilly obsidian
So a subterfuge buffed garrote is still strong af
worldly mantle
Yes
deft locust
yeah
chilly obsidian
Bring back twist the knife
deft locust
DD will be good, SB
worldly mantle
And ots still nuts in m+ so chill
white lance
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769018324 this thread makes me giggle
chilly obsidian
80k envenoms pls
abstract raven
Rip, double dose is gonna be a lot higher up now
opal mason
omfg its gonna be fine
fading hearth
So who wants to play feral
opal mason
ya'll are why trump is president
sudden brook
playing feral
abstract raven
This isnt as bas as I expected tbh
opal mason
i swear to god
wild gyro
Hahahahaha @opal mason holy shit accurate
abstract raven
I love the God emperor
deft locust
for example, I did 15k overall in my last m10, 35% of my damage was garrote, 40% of that is 14% total overall, so 14% of 15k is gonna nerf my damage to roughly 12.5-13k
strange python
FAKE NEWS
torpid jackal
omfg, THE NERF DOESNT TOUCH BASE GARROTE DAMAGE
deft locust
not that bad, but might be better to spec into other things since base garrote subter will be strong
arctic isle
if u cry about ss nerf ur a trump support haHAA
torpid jackal
stop spreading misinformation
deft locust
who is spreading misinfo?
crisp hollow
TAKE THAT, LIBTARDS
inland zinc
I support trump, what does that have to do with assassination?
sudden brook
uh oh
lusty narwhal
Get out
light tusk
They said everything gonna be fine for deadshot nerf and look at outlaw now
fading hearth
Is arms warrior rend build betterer now than rogue !
inland zinc
no thanks.
crisp hollow
"Shrouded Suffocation" - Ben Shapiro in a liberals rekt montage
lusty narwhal
Warrior is the new sin rogue
safe matrix
How about you all not bring politics into this.
opal mason
roflmfao
strange python
this has derailed disturbingly quickly
opal mason
as someone who tried to main feral, i dont think sin rogue will ever be that bad
safe matrix
People are already stressed out by this nerf, so remain calm, and just act like reasonable people.
Assassination will be fine
fallen sage
Guys....guys....GUYS, calm down. We are still in beta, you have to expect balance changes like this when they are still developing the game. They have no idea how traits are going to work on live yet, so they have to push them up and down by extreme amounts to see where they will fit in finished product. I for one welcome such intensive beta testing, I feel like BFA will release really polished final product.
opal mason
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
prime stirrup
Going from 1533 dmg to 613 dmg is small potatoes guys. Its not a huge nerf by any means..
crisp hollow
imagine thinking thats how math works
arctic isle
i pay $15 a month i shouldnt be nerfed
fading hearth
Putting the ass in assassination
strange python
Math is hard
chilly obsidian
Anyone else happy about tblast nerf? That trait is so boring
sudden brook
YESSS
deft locust
yes
sudden brook
god bless
deft locust
I am happy about that
supple hearth
!mute @fallen sage 1h
sudden brook
matrix + Tblast nerfs
wild gyro
Yeah @chilly obsidian
abstract raven
The garrote need is mostly just a pvp fix imo. Because triple stacking that and using exang inside a kidney is pmuch a death sentence
sudden brook
trait specific shit is good now
fiery bear
The lore post has 6 pages of posts in an hour... If it was reddit I think it will give competition to ea fiasco... ๐ ๐
chilly obsidian
Stop playing fotm then
deft locust
ya
drowsy summit
stacking SS will still be stronger than any other trait
stone pilot
now lets just make fok generate a combo point per target hit and buff env dmg ๐
white lance
need to becoem early adopter so you can play a spec for a week
inland zinc
assassination wasn't fotm garrett
zealous valve
I mean at least we aren't feral druids amirite
safe matrix
it was
strange python
its not FOTM when you play the class as a main
inland zinc
it was the only spec to not get nerfed initially
chilly obsidian
3x ss was fotm
sudden brook
rogue is extremely FOTM rn
surreal rivet
i have to play fotm lol
abstract raven
Pft it's still hella strong. One ss for the combos and double dose
chilly obsidian
Before that it was deadshot
hazy flame
ss needed a nerf but what annoys me is that this will be like this every week, every week they nerf a new trait and buff new ones and every week people farm new traits just to have them be shit next week
undone cairn
well time to add poisoned knife to hotbars
fading hearth
Can I play a Dk and pretend Iโm a rogue
undone cairn
lul
inland zinc
agreed @abstract raven
little warren
Why do I not even see the trait "Poisoned Wire" anywhere on the ranking list?
opal mason
but but
inland zinc
it's there,
deft locust
thats how good it is
light tusk
Oh god that fotm argument. Not like you gonna play the best build for your class right?
deft locust
o_o
opal mason
i dont wannnnnna not have 3x ss
inland zinc
just wayyyyyyyy at the bottom
opal mason
then i have to cast mutilaaaaate
arctic isle
hey guys this system is so garbage i cant use my 370 heroic piece because SS is too good o well. ok fuck u blizzard u nerfed SS trait
chilly obsidian
Play the best build sure but dont complain when it gets an inevitable nerf
main rain
Holy shit I just can't delete any of my azerite gear, since they're changing that clusterfuck every week
little warren
Oh I see it now. I was looking at the condensed list on icyveins
undone cairn
how do you use poisoned knife? Kappa
drowsy summit
its why bliz nerf rogues, you literally jump ship way 2 fast because of a nerf...hopefully this weeds out the FOTM guys as this will not destroy ASSA
surreal rivet
i don't think the nerf will be to bad
chilly obsidian
You're clearly playing it to abuse a strength, just move on to the next quietly once someone figures it out lmfao
fiery bear
I have 15+ azerite gear pieces... I fear I will need a separate bank for them at this rate
sudden brook
just buy more bags huh
fiery bear
3 gear for each trait for each soec
surreal rivet
well at least sub and assa are on the same playing field now
fading hearth
Lol Iโm outlaw I donโt even have a second dagger but this shit is funny. A nerf every week is a bad sign
main rain
I heard azerite gear feels like upgrades
chilly obsidian
32 slot bag meta
fiery bear
Do the math
chilly obsidian
Azerite traits were designed to help tailors profit
fringe ginkgo
Well that was a quick little adventure into Sin
prime stirrup
Give me secondary stats over azerite traits at this point
dense fern
wait will this change our single target bis?
austere wolf
Did they also fixed the garrote bugg ?
sudden brook
ur just being a hater
opal mason
cant wait for all the haters to go sub so this chat can be juss un sins jerking eachother again
chilly obsidian
Bug not fixed
austere wolf
or did they just nerfed traid without fixing bug
atomic jay
When you spend 8-9 levels doing SIN and now no weapons for outlaw now, RIP ๐ฆ
jolly notch
so what are the bis traits for st now?
strange python
give the theorycrafters some time to do the work
prime stirrup
Nope @austere wolf no fix, just went straight to nerf
sudden brook
nobody knows whats BIS still
chilly obsidian
3x ss bis
quasi flower
what is the bug?
sudden brook
SS might still be bis lol
austere wolf
haha ๐
chilly obsidian
3x tblast xD
red fiber
SS, fixed hopefully, might still be the best trait.
dense fern
i hope SS stays bis
torpid jackal
spoiler: its still SS
unborn knot
!ss @quasi flower
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
drowsy summit
x3 SS will still be the BIS as nothing even came close before a nerf
dense fern
ima be upset if i dont have the new bis
lyric crater
hello all is there a soft cap on haste ? or just stack it high as u can?
opal mason
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
main rain
They didn't fix anything, devs were probably looking at bloodmallet for these "fixes" and were done in half and hour
prime stirrup
@lyric crater When i was at 24% haste all other stat weights over took it in priority
plucky gale
Just do the math, take 40% off current dps, ends up being still pretty much best
strange python
incorrect
noble parrot
I came from outlaw when deadshot was nerfed, now assassination gets nerfed too. Why cant they just leave well enough alone
chrome umbra
its 40% of BONUS garrote
sudden brook
for M+ it'll be for sure lul
chrome umbra
its actually not even that awful lmao
red fiber
Current DPS, not so much. Current Garrote bonus, yes.
chilly obsidian
Deadshot is still good tho
chrome umbra
imagine having 3 385 azurite SS traits at its current state
lyric crater
ok so about 24% haste then stack mastery for the bleeds
chrome umbra
itd be actually stupid.
chilly obsidian
Not bis but still really strong
sudden brook
@noble parrot bcuz they need to get nerfed
viscid pawn
What will be nerfed? Someone got patchnotes?
sudden brook
deadshot is still crazy good in M+
drowsy hull
40 % on SS
strange python
rogue has been cancelled and changed in to ferals, check your character list
red fiber
SS, 40% of its bonus damage to Garrote.
drowsy hull
But the issue with this nerf is that exang build will not be the shit right?
potent forge
i'm guessing hero damage doesn't take into account the changes already right
red fiber
Man.
deft locust
I do think that exsang might not be as good
drowsy hull
The patch came like 30 min ago so
red fiber
We're still master spec.
deft locust
it'll take a hit compared to TB
crisp hollow
yes garrote going slightly less hamburglar means you might have to run toxic blade
drowsy hull
TB not as fun imo
chilly obsidian
Master spec is the true stealth class feral druid
arctic isle
inb4 people crying are people who cried about 370 item not being an upgrade
deft locust
Honestly I like both TB and exsang
surreal rivet
@chrome umbra wym by bonus garrote?
red fiber
TB is a little bit more straight forward.
rain salmon
the funny thing @arctic isle is that my 370 items both have laser matrix so now they arent even upgrades :^)
strange python
TB is basically a passive
red fiber
I feel Exsang's skill cap is a bit higher.
deft locust
the damage that SS gave, not the base damage of SS @surreal rivet
red fiber
So it's more "fun"
chilly obsidian
I miss the poison talent from early legion. Agonizing poison I think it was called?
drowsy hull
@red fiber yea boi
potent forge
why not buff anything else after the nerfs, i don't get it.
lusty narwhal
Because blizzard
plucky gale
agonizing poison was trashj
sudden brook
probably to not overbuff it
plucky gale
and boring
drowsy hull
Thats the issue , they just nerf insted of buffing other traits ^^
red fiber
Cause the nerf isn't even remotely destroying the spec.
deft locust
AP was good not trash, but it was boring
opal mason
ok
deft locust
took away a lot of fun mechanics of sin
plucky gale
thats what made it trash
opal mason
im turning off discord
lusty narwhal
Azerite is trash and boring
surreal rivet
@deft locust oh it snot even gonna be that bad than
drowsy hull
Now its all money on SB
red fiber
We'll likely still be #1 in M+.
opal mason
u chicken littles are too much
potent forge
we still competed with frost mages as is lol
deft locust
@surreal rivet in terms of overall dps yeah not too bad, but we might look for other Azerite traits now
vocal dock
I dont understand people saying assas is dead, have they not looked at meters in there dungeons? Im routinely 2k+ higher then anyone else on trash
deft locust
In other words, a 340 SS piece might be worse than a 370 non SS
red fiber
I beg your pardon but warriors are fidget spinners.
red fiber
They don't deserve respect.
plain spruce
Idc what anyone says I'm so happy ss is being nerfed. It's no fun having a builder be 40%
lusty narwhal
Hahahah
drowsy hull
Yea sure , im not saying assa is dead but exang build is probably not the main thing to go
potent forge
frost mage/arms/ dh compete with us as is, depending on the dungeon.
drowsy hull
its TB build insted with SB traits
honest needle
will shrouded suffication still be good after 40 percent nerf or should we start farming another trait ?
strange python
in my keys im tied with DHs and frost mages the whole time
lusty narwhal
@unborn geode changes arent even live yet dude
sullen robin
main blaze
I guess its time for scent of blood to shine in m+
main rain
Just look at the percentages they are buffing/nerfing, they are so fucking off its not even funny
grim wolf
sin is gonna be good still
drowsy hull
Well, outlaw and sin is both still strong
sudden brook
play what u like
main rain
Did they even test this shitty azerite system
sudden brook
all are good lol
lusty narwhal
Just reroll honestly
crisp hollow
hahahah sin sub and outlaw all in a good state
drowsy hull
its not like rogues are bad in any way
unique zenith
wow, I love seeing this repeat of people freaking out. remind me of the DS nerf. Rogue will still be good people lmao
grim wolf
SS will probably still be strong for multi target, prolly make double dose better for ST
inner pulsar
Reroll Feral, or wait for Triage Rogue spec
drowsy hull
Rogues are crying to much, i think its a shame they nerf a fun build but its not like sin is weak
deft locust
well @unique zenith
wraith mesa
sudden brook
guys just reroll warrior
lusty narwhal
The fuck is triage
sudden brook
no reason to ever play rogue after the nerfs
elfin harbor
hi
deft locust
the outlaw DS nerf people complained about DS not being bis anymore, cuz it was fun if I remember
sudden brook
literally dead class all specs are bottom 2 dps
deft locust
not that outlaw would be bad
misty light
well
elfin harbor
don't cry guys ๐ข
honest needle
is the ss nerf updated in the nightly build sims ?
deft locust
although I stopped following that chat after a while
inner pulsar
Rogue healing spec coming next patch
misty light
the outlaw thing was more about
sudden brook
deadshot is still top 3 lol
red fiber
accurate Guy
misty light
BIS is now generic traits or Snake Eyes
red fiber
switching to Arms
deft locust
top 3 isn't top tho
civic palm
Just like you should stop following this > _>
sudden brook
"???????
unique zenith
so many people were saying "outlaw dead????"
drowsy hull
They nerfed the generic traits though @misty light
surreal rivet
@mossy olive what other traits would even be good?
deft locust
and a lot of competitive pushers only look at the top build
sudden brook
how r u guys even saying outlaw is bad
deft locust
no one is
civic palm
deft locust
are you reading what we are saying
terse pawn
it's not bad
misty light
@drowsy hull not contemporaneously with deadshot they didn't
terse pawn
it's just not the best
zenith notch
@misty light generic traits got nerfed as well, read the whole thing
mossy olive
In regards to what?
zenith notch
BiS for Outlaw is SnakeEyes now, period.
deft locust
๐คฆ๐ฝ
sudden brook
misty light
@zenith notch I'm not talking about this patch I'm talking about the original deadshot nerf
sudden brook
lol
velvet magnet
am I blind or is the pvp channel gone
unique zenith
blind
junior aurora
Blind
red fiber
Click on Misc.
torpid jackal
you're blind
red fiber
You probably hid it.
zenith notch
@sudden brook "range of 2 weeks"
delicate gull
what is DoB?
sudden brook
its on mythic
zenith notch
@sudden brook gtfo of here, DK
velvet magnet
yeah was hid my bad, resume the outcry
primal violet
anyone else mad
terse pawn
the nerf was 1 week ago tomorrow
chilly obsidian
Dks will rise again
terse pawn
gotta change the range
late niche
Grgvmre mme mvgegr
red fiber
DK, ew.
fringe ginkgo
im angery D:<
potent forge
is there any advantage to nightstalker over subterfuge? If subterfuge is 80% on garrote and nightstalker is only 50% damage for one cast? I guess just vanish ruptures?
honest needle
is the the nightly build updated on raidbots with the ss nerf ?
zenith notch
@sudden brook rogues have been nerfed since then
sudden brook
how so?
safe matrix
You shouldnt use mythic data yet, its really scuffed as fights are skewed, there isnt much data on a lot of fights, and a lot of guild private log.
tight ravine
how bad does 40% actually feel
crisp hollow
well as its not live yet
honest needle
alot
crisp hollow
we're not sure
terse pawn
the fetid logs are beautiful
prisma pond
well with my 3 traits im at around 1700 per tick, after the 40% tomorrow itll be close to 1k
undone cairn
is it time to start farming for sharpened blades?
hushed turtle
at least i got a bunch of 95+ parses before nerf
hushed turtle
ill stay upper end for a while
terse pawn
get your 100 parse on zul
terse pawn
sub viable!
zenith notch
1700 per tick? what?
zenith notch
I only have 2 SS and I crit for 13k
sudden brook
loooots of downtime
terse pawn
your garrote crits for like 15k
prisma pond
based on tooltip, adding up the 3 traits
lusty narwhal
More waiting than anything
prisma pond
not actual damage
zenith notch
The tooltip doesn't reflect the traits, at all
terse pawn
wait what 40% tomorrow
zenith notch
it shows the damage outside stealth, without subterfuge and without SS
delicate gull
so new sin probably wont be using EXSG right? Should I sim TB with the currently recommended new traits to test?
delicate crater
well, I currently sim about 300 dps lower with 3x Sharpened Blades so I
terse pawn
(Assassination) Shrouded Suffocation: Damage bonus reduced by 40%
prisma pond
Im talking about the trait tooltip itself
terse pawn
oh lmao
strange python
zenith notch
The trait tooltip is fucked up
prisma pond
ah
deft locust
honestly
zenith notch
i dunno what's the math behind them, but something that increases your damage by "240" actually makes you crit 3k higher
proven ice
What class are you guys going?
lyric crater
24% haste unbluff or with bluffs? before stacking mastery/cirt more
deft locust
my bet is that sin will still be fine, I kinda hope that SS becomes non bis, would like to try other traits ๐
strange python
rogue
zenith notch
I know theorycrafters know the maths, but for regular players, it's just fucked up
terse pawn
if SS dies i can finally go back to sub
i honestly like sub better but the current sin damage is way too good to pass up
proven ice
sub can't pvp tho
terse pawn
feels bad
deft locust
Hmm, I don't like sub personally
terse pawn
i'll just stun people and get my partner to do shit
zenith notch
Sub is boring
terse pawn
yeah the sub single target is boring
verbal hemlock
Sin just feels so slooooow
ripe dock
wonder if they fixed ss bug before nerfing it...
deft locust
actaully I'd love sub
terse pawn
but i play dark shadow instead of enveloping
deft locust
if we didn't have to use the talents that ST needs
terse pawn
to make it more interesting
spare bane
Anyone got a link for the fixes?
surreal rivet
i cant think of another assa trait thats decent
terse pawn
it's super fun on zul
safe matrix
Blizzard has slated the following changes to Azerite Traits for this weeks maintenance period (Sept/17/2018)
(Assassination) Shrouded Suffocation: Damage bonus reduced by 40%
Archive of the Titans: Primary stat bonus increased by 20%
Laser Matrix: Damage reduced by 30%
Thunderous Blast: Damage reduced by 35%
safe matrix
deft locust
yeah, but being forced to ES and MoS is just
drowsy hull
might DD actually be the trait to go now with the nerf?
deft locust
meh
frosty obsidian
40% ss nerf
deft locust
super boring
inland zinc
so question, SS is 2479 dps @ 3 stacks. so @ 40% nerf wouldn't that put it at 1487 dps? putting 3 stack SS below champion of azeroth?? lol
zenith notch
Enveloping Shadows feels utterly trash outside Shadowdance, which IMO makes it the worst spec in the game to do WQs and leveling.
zenith notch
Secret Technique is just super slow, always energy starving
terse pawn
but enveloping literally never has to be outside of shadow dance
drowsy hull
@inland zinc i dont think you can take 40 % right off it like that
inland zinc
O.o? why not?
zenith notch
maybe at end of the expansion, when haste levels go crazy, secret technique will be as fun as it should be
deft locust
sec tec is just a more lame DfA
terse pawn
i like secret technique a lot in mythics
drowsy hull
Not sure if it scales in that way, but honestly im not sure either that was just a thought
verbal hemlock
Simc updates with maintenance? Though it did it at night?
terse pawn
it feels more impactful than crimson temptest
inland zinc
oh i see
drowsy hull
Since the first trait also gives the CP generation
safe matrix
they do weekly builds and nightly builds
deft locust
in aoe pulls
inland zinc
right so it's probably still worth while to use at least 1 stack
fresh coyote
When will the changes make it to the raidbots sims?
surreal rivet
im prob gonna roll ss even after nerf tbh
zenith notch
Crimson Tempest was shit in WoD, still shit in BfA
terse pawn
also i kinda don't like that sin's damage in entirely frontloaded
safe matrix
theyll probably just update when the nerf goes live
deft locust
for m+ prolly not a bad call cyanide
lyric crater
lame nerfing shrouded of suffocation
deft locust
it was just that strong
zenith notch
the whole issue is that it competes with Envenom...
safe matrix
@fresh coyote most recent pin
chilly obsidian
Ct is good what do you mean
honest needle
so without ss we can double garrote anymore can we ?
zenith notch
Why can't it apply bleed and increase the DP proc as well?
terse pawn
if ct gave you venomous wounds it would be amazing
honest needle
we should still want 1 ss trait right ?
surreal rivet
itll prob be good for raids too still
verbal hemlock
Ok, was about to ask if sims before raid would be accurate. That would be awesome
dark token
enjoy ur toxicity
zenith notch
"back to sub"
sinful flint
for dungeons 1 SS will still be very strong
zenith notch
Legion baby
surreal rivet
i was running x2 ss x1 dagger in the back anyways so i wont be affected much
chilly obsidian
Skys falling 40% of my bonus damage is gone
delicate crater
any idea what 40% translates to in DPS (roughly)?
sinful flint
for longer fights, not so much
deft locust
that guy was always a sub player anyways
he just seemed sour whenever he was in here
๐คท๐ฝ
sinful flint
@delicate crater entirely depends on fight length
zenith notch
I am playing all 3 specs. Only thing dettering you from it are the azerite traits.
terse pawn
the scaling on garrote is super weird
merry elbow
40% is a lot
sinful flint
the longer the fight, the less impact
terse pawn
gonna have to see
chilly obsidian
Of course we sin players are toxic that's a huge part of our damage
deft locust
it's a lot, I bet it's still bis for m+ tho
sinful flint
its 40% of the bonus damage, its not that much
honest needle
20 percent is like a 2k dps nerf right ?
deft locust
lol garrett
merry elbow
It is a lot
honest needle
40 percent
frigid sleet
whats the SoB trait aethys is refering to
merry elbow
@sinful flint what are you talking about
strange python
scent of blood
terse pawn
no 20% of your total dps would be like a 2k dps nerf
chilly obsidian
Toxic blade hits harder the more angry you are
frigid sleet
thanks
fringe ginkgo
tb on cd?
deft locust
he said sob but I think he meant Fob
zenith notch
Sin for PvP, cause it's just better than both Outlaw and Sub; Outlaw for PvE; and Sub for when I use my cooldowns at the wrong time and have to kill some rare or dungeon boss
deft locust
fan of blades
azure drift
its honestly probably 500-1k nerf at most
sinful flint
@merry elbow Check your own traits and how much bonus damage they give right now.
glossy geyser
its still huge lol
flint swift
I enjoy dot management. Outlaw is obviously my favorite spec but assassination is really fun when it comes down to it, and the difference is that the core playstyle is literally exactly the same despite this nerf.
azure drift
its only the trait not the actual dmg
deft locust
my earlier guestimmates were about 1500 in my m+ @azure drift
frigid sleet
well both SoB & FoB exist but SoB looks more promising
terse pawn
you lose about 140 damage with the nerf
undone cairn
sob and dd?
azure drift
ya i mean
flint swift
Whereas something like deadshot being nerfed literally changes the reroll logic (core mechanic of the class)
azure drift
its not huge but needed to happen the m+ shit was insane lel
undone cairn
hmmm
delicate crater
3x Sharpened Blades is only 300ish dps less than 3x SS right now for me
flint swift
Spec*
torpid jackal
how are you losing 1500dps from bonus damage nerf @deft locust
deft locust
yeah, for ST
undone cairn
using poisoned knife dansgame
honest needle
so if we stop using ss it changes the rotation for raiding right ?
deft locust
SB is prolly the best
sinful flint
300 dps in a sim is nothing to sneeze at
deft locust
@torpid jackal because it's weighted a lot in m+
I'm talking overall, since a pull is like
garrote
when garrotes are off
delicate crater
it's a lot less to sneeze at that 750-1000
flint swift
No @honest needle it changes the opener, not the rotation.
surreal rivet
SS will still be fine after nerf tbh
surreal rivet
cant get any worse then sub
deft locust
ss will be fine
zinc phoenix
most outlaw rogues lost at least 800dps when deadshot was nerfed 40%
sinful flint
the nerf to SS CANNOT be 1.5k, since all 3 azerite pieces are adding less than 1.5k DPS on single target for an extended fight
surreal rivet
what other assa traits are good?
deft locust
SB, DD
vocal harbor
sinful flint
https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=azerite_traits&type=trait_stacking&tier=3 disregard TB and laser matrix
tulip willow
how the fuck do u run sb it feels so awkward
deft locust
make your fingers cringe
steep obsidian
Huh?
deft locust
everytime you click your poisoned knife key
steep obsidian
Itโs fine?
strange python
not again blizz stop these nerfs i cant take it
chilly obsidian
3 cheers for the thunderous blast nerf
silk sundial
where is the we are going to buff underperforming traits?
sinful flint
Don't have your poisoned knife key difficult to press
surreal rivet
tbh i think ss will still be best trait
surreal rivet
its miles ahead of SB
undone cairn
lul
deft locust
For m+ ss will be top yes
terse pawn
poisoned knife is the best ability in pvp
deft locust
it's not miles ahead in ST :l
terse pawn
instant crippling poison
steep obsidian
And at least sb is decent for both sin and sub
alpine pilot
Does it matter which weapon enchant i have on my main or offhand? will that affect its proc rate?
safe matrix
no
terse pawn
no
surreal rivet
:/ i guess i gotta item restore all my azerite armor
pure sparrow
why you were ever vendoring or scrapping that shit is beyond me
deft locust
ye, keep alll 340+
torn hornet
glad i saved all mine i ever got thsi whole expac :^)
pure sparrow
my bank has every piece i've ever gotten at 340
delicate crater
@sinful flint I think you are right: I don't think it's going to be a big nerf (DPS)
sinful flint
Don't throw away azerite armor 340+ until 1 week after ghuun dies at the very least
thorny maple
this azerite system is terrible. I really hope they just abandon it
torn hornet
got like 2 rows in my bags
hollow stone
Ahhhhh. This chat is going to be so nice and quiet again in a couple days
merry elbow
You mean dead
deft locust
I mean, nothing wrong with the current chats
surreal rivet
assa will still prob be better then sub
deft locust
peeps just talking
delicate crater
just simmed with 3x random traits and it was only about 400 dps drop
terse pawn
the sims are really weird with SS
surreal rivet
im still gonna use SS either way in raids, cant be that much of a dps loss
merry elbow
Assa will be worse than sub in m+ for surr
hollow stone
Nah. We got shit done in here before the last rogue nerfs
terse pawn
since prepatch
deft locust
^
sinful flint
I think I'll just equip my 370 Laser matrix/Sharpened blade pieces now
hollow stone
There was an 11% ss nerf before
hollow stone
And i was talking about rogue in general
iron prism
Lm 30% nerf
sinful flint
It did, but less
pure sparrow
this kinda reminds me of when blizzard nerfed and buffed leggos in legion
everyone freaking out that the sky is falling lol
echo cargo
What pisses me off is, they fucking nerfed SS before they fixed the bugs on it lmao
proven current
when will sims be up?
sinful flint
Laser matrix activates RA in raids, which gets stronger every week
undone cairn
at reset
deft locust
ye
iron prism
Lol Iโm just tired of respeccing and regearing Azerite every week
echo cargo
Rip Sin viability in M+ as well :X :X
surreal rivet
im gonna play SS regardless cause im too lazy to farm azerite armor
wont be that much of a dps loss
deft locust
to be fair, those sin boot nerfs were painful. Not dps painful, just fun painful
๐
ripe dock
You can't farm azerite armory really...
warm geode
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
iron prism
I mean I think sin m+ is still one of the top without ss
ripe dock
Do like, what, 2 mythic0 every week?
deft locust
yes
warm geode
they fix at least the trait?
hollow stone
I think sin will still be very good in m+
deft locust
it is luni
white lance
just use whatever azerite you got, no point targeting specific traits as theyll shift around
deft locust
even if we aren't top dps
surreal rivet
itll be good in raids too..
deft locust
we're huge in utility
surreal rivet
and i refuse to play outlaw
terse pawn
i just want sub ST to not be so fucking boring
slim sand
RIP Shrouded Suffocation, guys.
iron prism
I mean we are waaaaaay top dps with ss
formal sable
unique zenith
why do you have the outlaw color, and refuse to play it @surreal rivet ๐ค
slim sand
I agree @terse pawn . I can't stand Sub post-Legion
echo cargo
It wouldn't be as annoying if they just let us target Azerite in M+
terse pawn
i'm just gonna bring my mythic build into raids and see how that does
honest needle
u guys think for raiding we are still going to want 1 ss trait atleast ?
dire spoke
what do you mean without SS ... it's not like you're going to throw away 3stack azerite pieces
lol
terse pawn
dark shadow + MoS on bosses maybe
surreal rivet
@unique zenith got the color way back in legion
sinful flint
but hey, at least azerite has bad luck protection
dense fern
it should be a crime to nerf SS without fixing the bug imo
unique zenith
gotcha
hollow stone
Almost def still want 1 ss. But sims will tell
plucky lion
Where is this nerf?
white lance
is it possible to get the demon hunter class color?
plucky lion
Rip
honest needle
without ss do we not use double garrote anymore for opener or rotation ?
slim sand
I'm just sick of Azerite gear in general right now! Hopefully they come up with something nice in 8.1 to alleviate how it's been. I want to remain optimistic.
surreal rivet
eh ive been running x2 SS and x1 dagger so if i have to swap one ill still be fine
meager knoll
Are these changes live?
deft locust
oh they buffed Archive, not RA
sand whale
opener remains the same if you use SS
meager knoll
Or on weekly reset?
honest needle
does anyone kno ?
wind whale
anyone want tier sets back? lol
sudden brook
no
dire spoke
people
deft locust
hmm, I wonder if nightstalker rupture will be a thing again for exsang ST ๐ค
dim sedge
sorry new here, two questions; Vigor or Deeper Stratagem, and Toxic blade or exsanguinate for m+
surreal rivet
i wonder how much this is gonna go down https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q9aXQNGGw2oL29rNy7L3JD
pure sparrow
@dim sedge check pins
deft locust
@dim sedge I'd wait a bit
terse pawn
sim yourself
deft locust
tomorrow big changers
deft locust
@surreal rivet for ST? Eh, not a lot. 14.5k at the very lowest
wind whale
u know boom does a lot of dmg yet no nerf to their traits lol
deft locust
prolly more like 14.8
spice surge
LMAO
merry elbow
Its actually more
merry elbow
Becauae 40% x 3
pure sparrow
what kind of math was that
strange python
did you do math
merry elbow
120%
deft locust
wait czerny it's only the bonus damage
terse pawn
lol yeah i know
slim olive
21
surreal rivet
eh 14.8 is still pretty good
undone cairn
quik mafs
deft locust
so you'd have to do a triple SS garrote - base garrote damage and then reduce by 40%
terse pawn
just high IQ math
woeful moth
its 211 bonus damage now
deft locust
211?
surreal rivet
@deft locust id have to do a triple garrote on ST?
terse pawn
why would you triple garrote
surreal rivet
im running a 385 dagger in the back help, 340 SS, and 370 SS
marble hemlock
with my current gear, the nerf will amount to about 10% nerf on aoe, based on a garrote base-tick damage of 2339, 3xSS tick-damage of 7870, and ~35% of my aoe-damage being SS garrotes
pure sparrow
alrighty everyone, hopefully i see you all tomorrow if the SS nerf wasn't that bad
surreal rivet
so id just swap out my shoulders with something else
pure sparrow
otherwise catch you all in sub channel
fast geyser
do you use crimson tempest on bosses in higher keys? or just put all your cp's into envenoms?
terse pawn
sub master race
strange python
never CT ST
woeful moth
well the normal bonus damage is 351
ripe dock
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cJL7mm9vPNxrQ4iz55wb8F Simming highest without any SS and still feel like spec is outpreforming others quite alot in raid atm anyway. Assa should be fine
surreal rivet
my 370 chest does 670 additonal dmg...
sinful flint
its 591 for 355 pieces
woeful moth
351 - (351 * 0.4) = 211
cloud iron
....
strange python
nice i got a 370 archives helm
random skiff
i wonder if exang is still the way to go now
sinful flint
I think it will just make trait stacking less desirable for assa
cloud iron
well in st sub was like really close
frail gate
how upset are we about SS
pure sparrow
very
frail gate
i concur
sinful flint
I'm looking at SS+LM+DD
merry elbow
We are happy
random skiff
LM got nerfed too
unique zenith
the sky is falling and the assa channel is nuclear
sand whale
miles a head you say, are you saying we need a 5% dmg nerf like outlaw and sub XD
merry elbow
So we can play other specs
sinful flint
LM enables uldir buff
unreal coyote
The trait is the whole spec lol
deft locust
no
sinful flint
225 haste is not a joke
deft locust
it's not
frail gate
I sure did like having to hit 80 buttons to AOE and getting outdpsed by an arcane mage spamming 1 button
deft locust
in m+ it's a much bigger deal tho
main blaze
I probably will run 1 SS, 1 Archive / Laser and 1 trait of something else maybe DD or w/e
frail gate
can't wait to get back to that fantasy
surreal rivet
im gonna run dagger in the back, SS, and then replace my 340 shoulders
sinful flint
I don't like dagger in the back on assa
unique zenith
but the class fantasy of stabbing people in the back
spice surge
Its almost like the traits are pretty balanced and you take the piece you have with the highest ilvl
surreal rivet
i wonder how scent of blood will be
unique zenith
wait you're saying 80% of assa hasn't meme trained to sub
deft locust
so @terse pawn right now if I go from 3 SS to no SS, the damage on my garrotes (crits) goes from 14k-4k, so the bonus damage is roughly 10k per pick. a 40% nerf is 4k damage on that bonus damage, so we will go from 14k crits to 10k crits after the nerf
really not that bad if you think about it
slim olive
10k dps
unique zenith
lmao
deft locust
lol
reef frigate
i'm losing 10k dps? damn see ya rogue
deft locust
subterfuge will prolly still be best for m+ even if you don't run SS at all, which means ironically regardless of the changes your rotation will be the exact same
unique zenith
what this and the DS nerf last week has taught me is that the rogue community is very mature and think about things before making a rash decision ๐ผ
little sparrow
I'd rather quit the game then play sub tbh
little sparrow
deft locust
dang I think most of us are just meme'ing now
prisma pond
reef frigate
we are shamans now
unborn root
I dont understand how anyone enjoys sin
strange python
;)
surreal rivet
@deft locust im still gonna run SS regardless, its miles ahead of other traits
sand whale
shamans have very good broadcasting careers on the bench
unborn root
its the least engaging shit in the world
edgy monolith
thunderous blast nerf to 35%
deft locust
except for this guy o_o
cold meteor
@unborn root ez dps
unborn root
Yeah ez and braindead
edgy monolith
sin is still okay 
terse pawn
well the question is does that damage put us competitive with outlul and sub again
frail gate
I have to admit I like being competitive on trash for once. Feels like in legion we had to keep up ruptures, envenom uptime, and garrotes as much as possible. Still get outdpsed by aoe classes that have to hit like 1 button
deft locust
@surreal rivet Yeah. It'll be good in m+, I reckon FoB might beat it though in high keys. And SB/DD will prolly beat it in ST
strange python
when will raidbots reflect the changes
frail gate
let's hope we don't go back to that
surreal rivet
sub is prob still worst spec
little sparrow
strange python
wanna sim my baby 370 archives helm
little sparrow
terse pawn
because i just swapped to sin because of much more damage i did
i like having a million stuns in sub for m+ utility
surreal rivet
@deft locust gotta pray i get a DB in my chest tomorrow
sand whale
@frail gate you mean PB right
unborn root
I am going to miss instantly topping meters with one button though
press garrote twice
laugh
echo cargo
I just wish they would buff the other 85% useless traits and/or make Azerite obtainable in PvP or M+
surreal rivet
we'll still top meters
frail gate
kappa poison bomb
merry elbow
With ss nerfs sub will be better in m+
frail gate
only p rocs when mob is left at 3% didn't you know
edgy monolith
!wizard
ripe dock
Forgot to use poisons today on Mythrax kill because my poison WA didn't show. Still out DPSed the frost mage lol
surreal rivet
how bad will SS be in raids u guys think?
edgy monolith
ss will be fine lol
late niche
ss will be a dps loss now
deft locust
lmao
prisma pond
lol
strange python
garrote will deal less dmg if u take ss now
remote heath
Ppl overreacting like always its so funny
frail gate
mobs will heal if you garrote with 3 SS traits
dusk quartz
Honestly SS feels stupidly overpowered while leveling, garrote is doing like 50% of my dmg
chilly obsidian
Sin dead quick grab the axes swords and maces reeee
deft locust
Actually, here's a thought for anyone who is doing some braincrafting. IF FoB takes over SS in M+, do you think we'll go HB instead of PB/CT?
atomic jay
SS was great around leveling
deft locust
Dang, that sounds exciting actually
strange python
you will end up getting the high lvl ss chest in uldir and archives/matrix high level
atomic jay
I had 2 SS and 1 TB, it was super easy to kill mobs.
crisp hollow
cap gives me a 355 SS vest, JUST IN TIME
frail gate
hidden blades feels way too slow tbh
prisma pond
aftewr nerf 3xSS garrotes heal the enemies
atomic jay
Having no outlaw weapons soon as I hit 120 sucks
late niche
because ss was nerfed by 40%, which means it heals the boss for 40% the damage it deals.. but because of subterfuge's 80% bonus damage the healing will actually be 40% + 80% which is 120% so you will heal for 120% of every 100% you deal with garrote
strange python
wish theysd arderessed dead traits like fan of blades
atomic jay
I guess I'll spend some gold and buy some
calm bronze
Leeching poison any good for pvp?
prisma pond
math checks out
ripe dock
All you need to kill mobs is MfD when lvling shit dies fast
smoky lantern
rip garrote nerf
deft locust
if anyone cares, 4 targets I am still doing 20k dps to mobs running triple FOB and no SS over the course of 30 seconds
๐คท๐ฝ
severe raven
anyone know why my garrote dmg is so much lower than other rogues?
err*** RUPTURE***
north spruce
Are you from the future?
ripe dock
lol
simple meteor
๐
reef frigate
lol
cold meteor
You already nerfed
simple meteor
NA nerfs are already up prolly
pure sparrow
they tested it on ya early friend
surreal rivet
Assa will still be better then sub no need to panic boys
smoky lantern
sub is alreayd better on alot of ST fighhts just shit in m+
solemn mason
when is the ss nerf bomb coming?
north spruce
Marty McFly confirmed assassination rogue
primal violet
if we could just switch azerite trait it wouldnt be such a big deal
terse pawn
you can't even farm azerite gear
strange python
they will changes traits every few weeks
terse pawn
so dumb
primal violet
exactly
reef frigate
^ and i cant use item restoration tomorrow...
primal violet
u can only do it once a week per dungeon
strange python
so every few weeks new bis traits will arise
simple meteor
sharpen blades top sub trait discusting
calm bronze
^
primal violet
blizzard is so dumb
sand whale
@severe raven just a quick skim your uptime is really bad that is all
ripe dock
I think the idea is that a specific set of traits shouldn't be OP so you shouldn't have to farm them to be competetive?
primal violet
this is going to end up being the worst expansion
terse pawn
sharpened blades is pretty disgusting yeah
i'm staying with bits if anything
or 1 inev
proper igloo
link to blue posts?
strange python
because azerite is crucible 2.0 next level fuckness which is even more complicated than sets and crucible together
ripe dock
fuck no crucible was the worst shit ever
safe canopy
azerite traits are my favorite thing this expansion
nova dirge
(Assassination) Shrouded Suffocation: Damage bonus reduced by 40%
surreal rivet
why couldnt they do 20% nerf and call it a day
neat totem
sub
ripe dock
oh nice 970 relic, nvm shit traits ill stick with my 930 ๐ค
wheat zealot
forest forge
unsub
surreal rivet
archive is trait spec now boys gg
scenic nacelle
Panic
nova dirge
ill never play outlaw
forest forge
to sub or unsub is the real question now
cold meteor
Got a 370 with archive/SS ๐ค
north spruce
Same, I have the 370 archive and 370 ss pieces
strange python
slaps roof
severe raven
@sand whale how could you tell>?
reef frigate
I like the idea of azerite traits, but the current traits are very boring and they still buff / nerf every week ...
severe raven
@sand whale i thought I had it up on the boss like the entire time
sand whale
it literally tells you your uptime on your log
north spruce
Might change head piece to a dagger in the back ๐คทโโ๏ธ
surreal rivet
no need to panic SS is still best xD and i refuse to play sub again
proper igloo
rip
sand whale
60 ish % can imprive there aim for 95%+ on mythrax
forest forge
dat m+ dmg tho
stiff venture
Real glad I got the ss chest from my honor cap not the other 1 now/s
wheat zealot
Rip to exsan
lilac coral
jesus swift roundhouse with the 55% nerf
severe raven
@sand whale how do you keep it up 90% of the time when he goes into the middle?
surreal rivet
exsang will be fine
north spruce
Wonder how well the engineering goggles would go now, compared to equivalent ilvl of course
sand whale
you can still hit him
surreal rivet
assa will be fine
strange python
how about exsang vs tb now ?
wheat zealot
Tb will sim higher now i bet
forest forge
^
nova dirge
today i got my third ss piece just wow
deft locust
no tb nerf
ripe dock
TB was only 0.2% behind for me, that's with one SS
deft locust
exsang didn't get nerfed either, SS got nerfed
wheat zealot
But exsan was mainly valuable because of big garrote damage
sand whale
now why would exsang get a nerf